Latest / Business Roundtable / The Power of Storytelling in Business with Jennifer Crosswhite

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The Power of Storytelling in Business with Jennifer Crosswhite · Business Roundtable

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Business round Table podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: David Carr, a founder of Steward of Business bringing people
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: together to accomplish great things, and I'm super excited to
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  Speaker 1: have a brand new guest on the podcast. Before we
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: get in there, I want you to think about all
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  Speaker 1: the time that you spend every day trying to meet
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: different people, all this energy you have. And I have
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  Speaker 1: Jennifer on here because she's got a way of reaching
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  Speaker 1: people twenty four to seven more further than you can
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: ever get, I think, and that's through the power of
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  Speaker 1: a book. She's spent more than twenty years helping leaders
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  Speaker 1: and coaches and entrepreneurs capture their story and expertise and
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  Speaker 1: really help build their credibility, extend their influence, and really
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  Speaker 1: help them scale. Jennifer, you are welcome to the podcast.
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  Speaker 1: Super excited to have you here.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, it's great to be here. I love
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  Speaker 2: talking about books, I love talking about entrepreneurs, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: really excited to talk about the two of them and
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  Speaker 2: how they can help each other. So I think it'll conversation.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'm you know, Jennifer, you have been again a
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  Speaker 1: book coach, you've editor, your author, of like I think
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  Speaker 1: fifteen plus books. You've guided literally one hundreds of people
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  Speaker 1: through this process. And so talk to us about your
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: background and you founded Tandem Services. You're the CEO of
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Tandem Services, and now you've been doing this for a
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  Speaker 1: number of years and you've done this, and talk us
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  Speaker 1: through your journey as a business owner entrepreneur yourself.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I started way back in the day just as
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  Speaker 2: an author. I loved books, I loved writing, I loved
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  Speaker 2: all of it. I loved communicating. I have a degree
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  Speaker 2: in business and literature and history. It's kind of a
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  Speaker 2: weird combination. And how do I make all those things
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  Speaker 2: work well together?
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  Speaker 3: Well?
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  Speaker 2: Writing and communicating a great way to do that. And
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  Speaker 2: I actually spent quite a bit of time in traditional
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: publishing seeing how everything worked from the back end. But
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  Speaker 2: I always had an author's mindset. I was always looking
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: at it in the through the lens of an author,
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  Speaker 2: and how does this benefit the author? And what can
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  Speaker 2: the author do to get their book out there? Because
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  Speaker 2: the publisher they've got you're just one of many projects
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  Speaker 2: that they've got running, and they only have a limited
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  Speaker 2: amount of time and resources and attention to give it.
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  Speaker 2: So what do you do once your book has launched,
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  Speaker 2: And so that was something that I was always kind
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  Speaker 2: of aware of in the traditional world. And then almost
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  Speaker 2: twelve years ago, I went out of traditional publishing and
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  Speaker 2: went out on my own. I had a lot of
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  Speaker 2: people asking me for help and advice, and I had
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  Speaker 2: kids going into junior high school, which is not a
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  Speaker 2: fun season of life for anybody. But traditional publishing is
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  Speaker 2: long hours and trying to juggle all of that, and
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  Speaker 2: I thought, well, goodness, I've got enough people coming to
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  Speaker 2: me on the side that I could help and do
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  Speaker 2: a better job if I was ahead the time and
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  Speaker 2: energy to focus on that. And so here we are,
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  Speaker 2: almost twelve years later, working with hundreds of authors and
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  Speaker 2: expanding what I'm able to offer them and help them
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  Speaker 2: and navigate through the process. And now self publishing has
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  Speaker 2: become really the option for most entrepreneurs. It's going to
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  Speaker 2: give them the most control and help them accomplish what
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  Speaker 2: they need to without all of the sort of restrictions
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  Speaker 2: that traditional publishing puts on books and the whole publishing process.
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  Speaker 1: M H yeah, no, I think it's so great to
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  Speaker 1: have that background. So you are an author, I love
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  Speaker 1: you have a very background like me. Jennifer, which I
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  Speaker 1: love and that you bring that I'm sure helping and
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  Speaker 1: guiding and coaching your clients because I think, you know,
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  Speaker 1: like many of us, entrepreneurs will get into this a
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  Speaker 1: little bit about their like intimidated like I've never written
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  Speaker 1: a book.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know how to.
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  Speaker 1: Do that, and so you've gone through this yourself, and
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  Speaker 1: now you're seeing like how can you do this? And
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  Speaker 1: I think, like you said, the landscape has changed a
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  Speaker 1: lot of people. Traditionally were trying to go through and
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  Speaker 1: pitch a book and trying to get a major you know,
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  Speaker 1: I know you worked for Dondrman and others of trying
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  Speaker 1: to get a major, big publisher.
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  Speaker 3: But now this option of self publishing and there's it.
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  Speaker 1: Seems to me there's less barriers, but you still have
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  Speaker 1: to have somebody guiding you through to make sure you're
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  Speaker 1: taking the right steps exactly.
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  Speaker 2: Now the gatekeepers are less the publishing house and the
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  Speaker 2: agents and it's more the readers, which is really where
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  Speaker 2: it should be. I mean, the readers should be the
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  Speaker 2: ones who are making the decision and as you can
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  Speaker 2: get in front of your ideal reader, which is it's
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  Speaker 2: a challenge to be honest it is. It's like with
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  Speaker 2: anything an entrepreneurship. How do you get in front of
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  Speaker 2: your ideal customer, your ideal reader often the same person,
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  Speaker 2: but they should be the ones who make the decision
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  Speaker 2: of if your message is going to resonate with them
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  Speaker 2: or not. Likely what you're doing in your business already,
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  Speaker 2: you have a lot of communication, a lot of content,
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  Speaker 2: a lot of things, a thought, leadership, things that can
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  Speaker 2: actually be you and repurposed. You don't have to start
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  Speaker 2: from scratch. Most entrepreneurs don't. When they're writing a book.
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  Speaker 2: They have some ideas, they have things they want to communicate,
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  Speaker 2: and when you realize you really don't have to start
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  Speaker 2: from scratch, you probably have a lot more than you
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  Speaker 2: think you do. You just need someone to help you
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  Speaker 2: format it, kind of get the structure in place, ask
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  Speaker 2: the right questions, and get the process going. Then that
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  Speaker 2: will get you down the road a lot faster, faster,
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  Speaker 2: because if it's not your industry, how would you possibly
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  Speaker 2: know all the things that you need to know, And
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  Speaker 2: why would you want to go out on this whole
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  Speaker 2: learning journey of something. Unless you're just curious and want
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  Speaker 2: to learn, that's fine, But most other things they would
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  Speaker 2: rather do then learn the whole publishing and releasing and
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  Speaker 2: editing and the whole thing, and so having someone to
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  Speaker 2: hold your hand through that, just like you would hire
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  Speaker 2: an accountant or any other professional to help you with
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  Speaker 2: aspects of your business you're not familiar with and don't
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  Speaker 2: really want to be so right.
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  Speaker 1: Well for the so and I want to get into
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  Speaker 1: the little bit more of that process. But maybe just
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  Speaker 1: backing up a little bit, Jennifer, because you know, I
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  Speaker 1: think before people may have thought, hey, it's going to
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  Speaker 1: be too hard to write a book. You know, they're
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  Speaker 1: there and there's so they're maybe spending time and effort
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  Speaker 1: in different ways through you know, traditional marketing or networking. However,
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  Speaker 1: why would they want to rethink that strategy, Jennifer. Why
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  Speaker 1: might be a book today now be a better business move?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's one of the things that's really fantastic
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  Speaker 2: about a book. I like to tell people it can
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  Speaker 2: go around the world and it will touch people you
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  Speaker 2: will never meet and you will never have the opportunity
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  Speaker 2: to meet. It's a unique form of you know communication.
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  Speaker 2: It's not something that someone will necessarily stumble across your
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  Speaker 2: website or your social media posts or your ad or
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: even your podcast. Those are all wonderful channels and you
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  Speaker 2: should absolutely use them. They're all different, though, and they
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  Speaker 2: reach different people differently. Book is just one more way.
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  Speaker 2: And the nice thing about a book is that this
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  Speaker 2: is something that people tend to refer to other people.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I just read this book. It was
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  Speaker 2: so great. You have to read it. Or One of
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  Speaker 2: the things that entrepreneurs often do is they know they're
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: existing clients and they're saying the same thing over and
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  Speaker 2: over and over again. And so if you put that
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  Speaker 2: in a book, a lot easier to give to your
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  Speaker 2: existing clients or your potential clients. If there's work that
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  Speaker 2: your potential client needs to do before they interact with you,
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  Speaker 2: or you want to explain some things that they need
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  Speaker 2: to know before they work with you, the book can
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  Speaker 2: be a great way to do that. I generally tell
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  Speaker 2: people think of it like a ten dollars business card.
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  Speaker 2: It's kind of expensive to put ten dollars per business card, right.
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  Speaker 2: I use that number because that's about how much it
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  Speaker 2: will cost you, you know, to have a printed copy
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  Speaker 2: of your book. Generally, but if you think about a
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  Speaker 2: ten dollar investment in handing that book to somebody who
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  Speaker 2: can read your thought leadership where they can go in
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  Speaker 2: a little more in depth than a quick conversation that
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  Speaker 2: you could have. They have the ability to really interact
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  Speaker 2: with you without blocking a zoom meeting on your calendar
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  Speaker 2: or any of that kind of thing. All of a sudden,
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  Speaker 2: that becomes a really good investment. You know, most of
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  Speaker 2: us charge a lot more than ten dollars an hour
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  Speaker 2: for our time. So being able to give someone that
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  Speaker 2: book and use that as even a prequalifying way to decide, hey,
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  Speaker 2: is this someone who's going to be a good client
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  Speaker 2: or customer for me? That can be one fantastic use
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  Speaker 2: of it. It also gives you some authority. There's certainly
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  Speaker 2: this idea around people who are able to write books.
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  Speaker 2: There is a certain amount of obviously thought process and
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  Speaker 2: putting your thoughts in order, and so you have this authority,
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  Speaker 2: and there's a way that it opens doors that you
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  Speaker 2: just can't in other ways. And because there's a bit
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  Speaker 2: of a permanence that comes with a book, and finally,
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  Speaker 2: a book is a wonderful legacy to leave, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I know most of us would love to have writings
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  Speaker 2: from our grandparents, even if they were just you know,
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  Speaker 2: diary entries, but how much more so to leave some
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  Speaker 2: of your thought process and the things that you believe
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  Speaker 2: and the things that you thought were important, and you're
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  Speaker 2: guiding principles and those kinds of things to pass down
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  Speaker 2: to generations. So it hits on a lot of different
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  Speaker 2: ways that other communication channels don't necessarily hit.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point. And I love that you
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  Speaker 1: this example of the ten dollars business card. But you know,
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  Speaker 1: I think people that are spending investing money in paid
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: advertising lessons she as an example, but this is a
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  Speaker 1: different form of it. And like your point of reaching
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  Speaker 1: other folks and having that legacy and folks that they
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  Speaker 1: would never have ever received it otherwise. And I think
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  Speaker 1: there is power. There's still today, even though we're in
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  Speaker 1: the digital age of time. There's power in a physical
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  Speaker 1: medium too.
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  Speaker 3: I oftentimes I do read books digitally as well, but
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  Speaker 3: I do like to have a copy.
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  Speaker 1: At times and I mark it up and I look
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  Speaker 1: at that and I like to refer back to it.
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  Speaker 3: So I think that's that's powerful, you know as well.
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  Speaker 1: And then when you're going and if like for somebody
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  Speaker 1: like myself, I'm sure you work a lot of speakers
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  Speaker 1: if they can take that with them and have copies
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  Speaker 1: right to be able to share.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you are a speaker and you don't have
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  Speaker 2: a book to sell in the back of the room,
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  Speaker 2: you are leaving money on the table. Because once someone
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  Speaker 2: has heard what you had to say and enjoyed it,
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  Speaker 2: they definitely want to take that home with them and share.
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  Speaker 2: It's the best way for them to share with someone
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  Speaker 2: the experience that they just had is to take that book.
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  Speaker 2: And of course a book you can go into much
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  Speaker 2: more detail than you could go when you're speaking. It's
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  Speaker 2: a great way to in lieu a fee sometimes, so
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: someone can't afford to have you speak, but you can
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: ask them to provide books for copies of your book
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  Speaker 2: to everybody that's going to be there. So there's a
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  Speaker 2: lot of ways, especially if you're a speaker, that a
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  Speaker 2: book is a great tool to have in your toolbox.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, so you know what, so this is great.
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  Speaker 1: So if you're thinking about it and you guys want
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: to know more, Jennifer, We're going to have all of
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: our content ervation by the way, so you guys can
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: connect with We're on LinkedIn and such and leave comments
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: or feedback. So if you're listening to this and you're like, oh,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I've got a question about this, Jennifer, just put it.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: In the comments. We're going to make sure she gets that.
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  Speaker 1: And I know probably a lot of people now maybe
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: the wheels are turning and they're saying, Okay, this would
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: be a good idea, but like, like you said, I've
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: never done this before, how would I do this? Can
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: you walk them through a little bit about your this
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: process from the idea to an actual book?
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  Speaker 2: Jennifer, Yeah, And I think this is where a lot
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: of people get stuck, right, I have so many ideas.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Where do I begin? How do I even start? And
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I tell people do a brain dump. Whatever your favorite
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: method is. If you like a whiteboard, if you like
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: legal pads, if you like some of the mind mapping software,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: whatever is your thing, just start throwing out all the ideas.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Spend a couple of days as the idea comes to
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you in the shower, when you're driving or walking the
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: dog or whatever. Come back and put it down and
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: get it all out. Just tell you no rhyme or reason.
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  Speaker 2: They can be big and small, doesn't matter. Just get
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: it all out. After you think you've gotten it all out,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: then go back and look at it and start making
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  Speaker 2: some connections. Which of these ideas kind of get grouped together,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: which ones kind of flow naturally, and start thinking and
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: looking at those connections. This is where some of that
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: My mapping software is great, but you know, you can
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: take draw circle and draw lines and whatever. It doesn't matter.
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  Speaker 2: You're the only person that's going to look at it.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: And when you start seeing those, those naturally start becoming ideas.
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  Speaker 2: You start seeing there's a little structure there. You start seeing,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: you know, this is a completely different, like, this is
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: way different all these ten things over here, they're really
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: different than these ten things over here. So maybe there's
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: two books. Most entrepreneurs actually have more than one book
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: in them, And so that's part of the process that
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: when I have a conversation with someone is we're sorting
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: that out. What is this book and whatever? So you'll
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: start to naturally see some of those then start thinking
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: about pretty seriously, who is the ideal person for that book,
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  Speaker 2: What is their problem, how are you going to solve
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: that problem? And what's the way you're going to help
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: them solve that. What's the transformation journey you're going to
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: take them on? As you start to answering some of
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: those questions, you're going to see, oh my goodness, I
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: have all those topics already covered. I have all those
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: ideas already covered. You're starting to create what we like
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: to call an annotated table of contents. It's just a
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: fancy word for an outline. Really, it's just kind of
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: an outline, and that's basically where you start.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Then at some point how much more detail you want
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: to go. You can just get more and more granular
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: as you go through the process. But the idea is
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: if you start trying to be granular and figuring out,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: oh my goodness, I need ten pages of content for
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: chapter three, you will often short circuit the whole creative
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: process and get yourself kind of stuck in the editing
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: mode when you really should still be in the creative mode.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: So doing that brain dump in advance and getting it
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: all out there, that helps get the creative process going
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: in The structural kind of naturally flow from that.
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  Speaker 1: So I would imagine Jennifer as you're doing that and
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: you're coaching folks, and they've got ideas, because if all
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: your experience working with so many different authors, you're going
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: to be able to probably tease a part. What do
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: you think is going to be most meaningful? I would
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: say the test, like, how are we going to put that,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: like you said, annotated, you know, outline table contents together
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: to like in a logical sense, because what I think
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: sometimes people will probably too at least for me. And
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: first I'm thinking, you know too, maybe two grand and
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: this is going to be like, you know, I'm a
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: big Star Wars fan.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: I like George Lucas, He's like, I wrote this, you know,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: I have this thing.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: And he's like, it's nine movies and he's like, I
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: do the first one, right, So he was like, you
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: have this big idea, but then and having somebody to.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: Come through and like tease it down and like actually
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: make it? Can we actually do this?
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  Speaker 1: And what would be what is a reasonable time frame
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Jennifer when somebody says, okay, we've got this kind of
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: broken down to actually taking this from idea to to
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: actually bring it to the book.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: What do you normally see as the life cycle of
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: that process.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: I like to tell people plan on six months because
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: most people can set aside six months to work through
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: you know, you have to carve out some extra time, right,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: you know, a couple hours on the weekend, or a
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: couple you know, half hour our slots during the day,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: whatever it might work for you. You can't do that forever
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: because other things are going to come in and get
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: it in your way. And so I find that if
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: you stretch it too far beyond six months, people just
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: lose energy and they don't get it done. But six
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: months is a good enough time to get what you
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: need to done in a reasonable amount of time. And
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: it's not going to be a massive book, but it's
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: going to cover what you needed to cover in that
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: period of time. And then I always say, plan on
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: another six months for the editing and the formatting and
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: the publishing and the kind of the back end side
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: of things. So a year you can do it quicker.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: For sure. If you've got a speaking date coming up,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: you know, we can definitely work around that. But a
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: year is life gets in the way. You get sick,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: you have a car accident, your house floods, whatever. Right,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: we like to plan for those contingencies because they happen,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: as we all know, and so that way you're not
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: adding one more level of stress to your life. The
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: goal is to not make the stressful, it's to make
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: it a benefit to your life. Those are my rough
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: guidelines for people I.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Would like and I would imagine, I mean, Jennifer, speak
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: a little bit as a coach yourself, because I'm a coach,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: but speaking to the people, like you said, there may
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: be folks sometimes that are overwhelmed or they're perfectionists. I
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: know you love working with entrepreneurs in particular, but you know,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: speak to like, how do you address the concerns are overwhelmed,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Like when they're like, okay, I started this and then
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: they start to get discouraged or you know, what's what's
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: your how do you guide them through that?
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I always tell people there's usually a point in
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the process where you're like, I'm done. I cannot do
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: anymore with this. I don't know if I'm going up
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: or down, if my changes are good or bad, And
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: that's definitely time to bring somebody in to have some perspective.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the biggest challenge that we have,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: is that we are so close to our own work.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: We have that curse of knowledge and having someone come
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: in and say, okay, you just use this phrase and
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I have no clue what that means, let's break it
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: down for your reader much more grand allayer of things,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: or this is a rabbit trail, I think that's actually
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: a separate book, or I really need you to stand
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: on this area. And so having someone with that outside
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: perspective is going to help you move through the process
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: and keep you from being overwhelmed. For many people, even
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: just sitting down at a blank page is overwhelming, right,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: That's a really common problem, and especially if you are
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: wired as an entrepreneur to kind of be towards action,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: it can really feel like this is too much. This
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: is I need to be doing something else. I can't
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: call my brain. And so working with a writing coach
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: is really helpful because a writing coach will take what
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: you've got, We'll ask you the right questions, we'll get
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: you moving forward. When I work with people, we decide
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the chunks of writing that need to happen between our meetings,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: and then I review it and I give them feedback,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: and I give them an assignment for the next one.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: So you're not having to come up with it all
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: on your own. You're getting some guidance and some structure.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: You know. We do that in all aspects of our business.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: There are many things that we don't you know, we
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: know we don't know how to do all that stuff,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: and we are people to help us with it. So
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I think this can be just one more of those
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: things where you just bring somebody in to help you
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: in an area that is not your strength, so you
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: can free up your time to go do the things
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: that you're.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Really good at right and keeping them on target. I mean,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: you brought up entrepreneurs. I use a framework called the
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: five Voices Understanding your leadership voice. But I think you
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: get this concept, Jennifer, and I'm maybe an entrepreneur. I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: call them a pioneer voices, very very they're very mission driven.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: They want to win.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: But you have other people that are creative and they're like, oh,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: these are all these possibilities that could be this, that
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the other thing. So as a coach, you know, I
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: hear what I hear you saying, Jennifer, is you're listening
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: to that person where they're at, and then you're guiding
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: them and helping them where they need that strength. Maybe
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the creators need a little bit more structure or like
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: myself or a connect I'm like that, but I need
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: that structure and the detail, the step by step, where
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: other people are like, I know the step by step,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: but you talk after me, make thinking creatively or like
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: expanding my thoughts. It's very hard for them to do that,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: So it sounds good where they're at.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I think that's it's a really good point because there's
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: this misconception that only people that write books are creative
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: people or very academic people or whatever we have. And
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I know people of every personality type who have written
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: books and can write books. And you're going to have
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: strengths and you have weaknesses in different parts of the process,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: just like you do in any area of life. And
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: so having people come alongside that, and because I've seen
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: so many authors, I have a good sense of oh, okay,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I think what you need here is more structure, or
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: maybe you need more creative encouragement or whatever that might
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: be to help you get through the pieces that you
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: need so you can accomplish the goal. And really the
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: whole point is what is your goal? What do you
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: want to accomplish? And then okay, let's design the book
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: to create that path towards that goal. And if you
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: have a different goal at a different time, that's a
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: different book. So sometimes just keeping people focused and just
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: talking through what is the what is the goal, what
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: do we want to accomplish with this book? Then I
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: can say okay, well I can tell you how do
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: we need to get here, and here's the way to
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: keep on track that so we can get to that process.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I love that you brought that up, Jennifer, because you
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: began backing it up. You mentioned earlier in the podcast
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: we were talking about if you're a speaker and you're
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: you're leaving many of the teable and they're like, oh,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I have a book because I'm speaking at this event.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I want to have this, but there may be other
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned there's other reasons, and I think
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: getting clearer on what your goal is is probably going
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: to keep you motivated right to keep going to actually
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: get there.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Exactly, keeping focused. Like with anything, there are many parts
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: of our businesses that we do not enjoy, and so
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: having that goal and knowing why we're doing it right,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: always going back to the why why are we doing this?
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: What is the purpose? What is our goal here? That
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: can help because there's a part in every single book
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: and yeah, every book that I've written too, I get
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: in there and there's a point every time where I'm like,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: this is the worst thing I've ever written. I don't
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: know why anyone would want to read it, and you know,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: you just it's just part of the creative process. And
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: so having someone to remind you, hey, it's not First
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: of all, this is fine, and we're going to keep
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: pressing towards the goal that we are focusing on, and
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: you know, you just need some of that encouragement to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: keep you on that path, because yeah, there are parts
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: of it that are not fun and not easy, and
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: different those will be different things for different people. Some
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: people love the writing part, some people love the editing part,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: or you know, vice versa. And so keeping focused on
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: that and keeping you kind of on the guard and
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: within the guardrails and back to your what is your
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: why and why are we doing this is the goal
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: of the coach right to keep you absolutely to your goals.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you have a favorite story or an
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: example of working with the client where they got stuck
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: and like, hey, this was the goal and you walk
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: them through that and like ultimately what that was or
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the book or I just love to hear different, you know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: experiences of people that you've worked with.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. It's not uncommon for writers to get stuck.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: It's not and it often is around the eighty percent.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: You know, you've done a lot of the heavy lifting
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: and then you get some of those life gets in
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: the way things and you get off track. And part
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: of my goal is to continue to come back to
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: you and say, okay, but we have an appointment set up. Also,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: you're paying me money, and that tends to make you
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: a little more motivated to show up to your meetings.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And I think in some ways that's it's as simple
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: as that. You know, we set up our whole structure
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: ahead of time, so you know, these these are our dates,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: these are when we're meeting, and you already have that
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: sort of blocked out. I think that really helps people
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: come through. And then especially with the fact that we
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: can change what we're doing. So I have a client
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: right now who is suffering from Parkinson's and so we
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: started as a coaching but because he's struggling with typing
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: now because of his tremors, we moved into a bit
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: of a ghost writing and so you know, we flex
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: because what needs to happen to get the book done
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: very so we got on zoom, we read through the
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: whole together. I made the edits as we were doing it,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: and it was it just worked. And so sometimes you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: we need to do something that's a little more customized
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: based on what's going on with the person's life and
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: things like that, and so it's pretty common that there's
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: going to be something that we have to work through
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: or overcome to get that done. And again it was
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: the same thing. He's very passionate about this book. He's
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: at the end of his career and this is his
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: passion and so remembering that he feels this is a
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: very needed book that that kept him going. He couldn't
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: see how to get around that hurdle, and I'm like, oh,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: well here's how we fix it. This is Yeah, it's
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: a way. We have a way around that.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: I love.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I love how you're like, okay, there's we can be
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: creative and come other ways. Once somebody does, now you've
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: written multiple books, have you found the experience. Once they
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: have a positive experience, they've gone through this successfully, is
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: there like now they're like, oh, you actually did this,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Like maybe I might want to do another one, right.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it varies it's interesting. Some people are like, no,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not writing any more book SCEP for again, I'm done.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: But most people are like, Okay, I can do this.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: And and I will say every book is different because
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: you get into the next book and now your knowledge
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: you started at a higher level of knowledge, but then
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: you've put a little bit more pressure. You might try
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: to accomplish something a little bit bigger, and then sometimes
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: you're again you get into that certain part of the
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: book and you're like, this is terrible. Why did I
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: do this? Like it's okay, remember last time we got
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: through it. So I do think most people get once
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: they realize that they can do it, it kind of
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: opens up a whole new world of possibilities for them
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: because a book can be so many things. It can
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: be a short lead magnet, it can be a playbook.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: It can be you know, your best tips for your clients,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: things that you have worked really well for your clients.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: There might be things that you only use with your clients.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: There might be things that are geared more towards potential clients.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: There's just so many options. And especially if you have
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: any kind of content, you own it. It's your intellectual property.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: You can reuse it and combine it and make it
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: new in so many different ways. Expand it into a course,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: make it into a private podcast series, make it into ebooks. Like,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of things you can do with the content.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And so I think once people kind of get past
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: that hurdle, they have the idea of, oh my gosh,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I have all this other content, what else could I
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: do with it? And I think that is where you
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: start seeing the real economies of scale with repurposing, reusing,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: and just makeing it do lots of you know, multiple
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: duties for the same piece of material.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: That's a great point that you're bringing up, Jennifer, And
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I'd imagine sometimes maybe people feel like a book has
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: got to be this massive thing, but you're saying, no,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be this massive thing. It can
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: You're breaking it down and making it practical and useful
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: for your ideal client.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think part of the problem is we have
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: a bit of this mystique around books that they are
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: like this you know, final tome on everything that you
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: you know, this compendium of everything you believe, And I'm
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: just like, take one thing that's really cool that you
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: do and let's just talk about that, and you can
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: have that multiple times. But it doesn't have to be
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: like your whole lifelong compendium of your knowledge. It really
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: just one topic and one key point and that we
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: break down and one really thing that works really well
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: or whatever it might be. It doesn't have to be
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: as big of a deal, and I think a lot
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: of people get caught up in that. So breaking it
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: down into smaller, actionable things that that people can see
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: transformation and can get some benefit from right away, that's
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: what we want to kind of keep in mind as
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: we're thinking about the content of the book.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I love that, Jennifer, because I could see where again
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: I would be overwhelmed and like you're saying, Okay, what
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: is the goal, what's the best way.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: To reach that goal? How to break it down?
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I mean even to the point where I know you've
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: written fiction and nonfiction books, and I think some people
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: maybe feel like it has to be only non nonfiction.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: But maybe there's a reason why you could be fiction,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: right right.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Fiction can be really fun. Actually know a couple business
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: owners they use fables and kind of storytelling techniques. If
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: you've ever read The e Myth, you know he has
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: that kind of idea in there too, or who moved
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: my cheese? You know, that's not uncommon in the business
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: world to use storytelling techniques and that and I actually encourage,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: no matter what you're writing, to use story because people
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: really were wired in our brains to respond the story,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: and so I highly recommend that regardless. But you know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: fiction is really powerful and a lot of fun, and
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: there's certainly people that have always wanted to write, you know,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: the great mystery novel or whatever it might be, sci fi,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: whatever your thing is. And I have a whole course
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: on writing fiction because it's it's fun. Yeah, And it's
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: a great way to explore those creative juices. For sure.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: That's something if you're having fun, right, it's enjoyable. It's
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: not a chore.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I get to do this, you're more
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: likely to be successful in getting that done. And to
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: your point, Jennifer, I found when I write, meaning just
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: even a little social media posters, anything out there, if
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: it's story driven, it's much more engaged than I do
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: just kind of you know, just some kind of I
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: don't say, more plain if you will, or just more
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: traditional maybe marketing speak.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: I think people are hungry for story right now.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: In particular, our brains are wired that way. We're wired
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: to survive and thrive, and we're constantly looking for information
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: on that and we are wired to get that through story.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: And so if you think about you know, Esip's fables,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: and every culture has stories that relay their morals and
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: their things, you know, Jesus speaking in parables, all these
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: things that are really important because we retain we retain
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: the message so much better when we can remember it
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: in a story. And so, whether you're using examples of hey,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: this is a case study of a client, or this
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: is a before and after or one you know, a
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: bunch of stories, or one main story that goes all
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: the way through, it's a fantastic way to help your
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: readers see themselves and go, oh yeah, I've struggled with
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: that same thing. I know how that feels. What is
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: a solution to that? Because I haven't found it yet,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: and they're going to stay engaged till they can figure
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: out what that is.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I want to go longer, but I know
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: we're getting close to the end of the podcast. You
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: have so many great and and and folks, I hopefully
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: you're listening, whether you know, whether you're an entrepreneur or
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: just hey, do you have a story and it's been
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: burning in your heart? There to get out there. Jennifer
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: is a great resource. And maybe you know you knew
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: that there were book coaches out there, but absolutely there
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: is uh and and I'm super excited to have you here, Jennifer.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: So we've covered a lot.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, those that are listening, what would you encourage
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: them to do maybe one step to move them closer
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: to getting that book out of them today? What would
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: you encourage them to do as we're kind of wrapping
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: up the podcast.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the brain dump. Do the brain dump I have
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: on my website and we'll have a link to that.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: But I have a little resource called You Need a
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Book and it talks about the brain dump process. So
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I highly recommend that take some time, just put your
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: thoughts out and see what comes up.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, Jennifer. We'll make sure we put all your contact
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: information in there. I think it's so powerful. I'm excited.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I've got my first book coming out of this this year.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: We're working on that and I'm excited that maybe you know,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I'll get to do another one. We'll see we go
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: one thing at a time. But Jennifer, thanks for being
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: on the podcast sharing your ideas about how we can
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: do this and how we can get our message out there.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: Thanks, thanks for being here.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me anytime I get to talk
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: about books and entrepreneurship.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for being on the podcast. Here the Business
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Roundtable once again of course like follow. We love having
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you be a part of our journey and come back
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: into the next one.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: Be well. Thanks everybody. By now