Latest / The Dianne Dusaidi Podcast / S2 E03 | The Somalia the Media Doesn’t Show | Mohamed Mohamud

Transcript

S2 E03 | The Somalia the Media Doesn’t Show | Mohamed Mohamud · The Dianne Dusaidi Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Diant To Side Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Conversations at the intersection of strategy, culture, and purpose.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Each week, we explore the ideas, people, and systems shaping how we live, work, and lead across Africa and the world.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Today's episode is proudly sponsored by Vitalo Stillwater.
• 0:26
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• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Stay hydrated, stay fresh, and choose Vitalo.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: Mohammed Muhammad, a Somali Brit, started Somali Sideways, a photography and storytelling platform that puts Somali diaspora in charge of their own story, one photo and one caption at a time.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_04: Mohammed has published three books, and one of them sits on the library shelves of both Stanford and SOAS universities.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_04: Mohammed is an African Union Media Fellow and has since started Sideways Stories to showcase African stories at large and in partnership with Time Africa.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome, Mohammed, to the podcast.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you, Diana.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you for having me.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's such a pleasure to have you.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_04: I really enjoyed going through the deep dives on Instagram and elsewhere as really beautiful photography.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_04: You are very talented.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I think what I loved even more than the photography is the storytelling attached to it.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: I learned a lot about countries that are on my bucket list, like uh Mozambique and other beautiful countries in Africa.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_04: But let's maybe start at the beginning.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I read the reason you started Somali Sideways was because of an article uh you read on Al-Shabaab attacking um the Somali parliament in 2014.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: Can you tell us about share a little bit about that story and why that inspired you?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_05: So it all started when I uh did my bachelor's in uh international politics.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um once I graduated, there was a lot of um uh like a little bit of a moment where I didn't know what I wanted to do next.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, as all graduates, uh there was a little bit of a um a moment of uh of reflection on what I should be able to utilize my talent for.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_05: And then I came across a an article, um I can't remember what, but it was a Western media outlet.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um and they pushed out a a narrative on Somalia talking about um Al-Shabbat and uh and the attacks that they've conducted.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it made me think a lot in a sense of uh perception, um, because perception shapes reality.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_05: And when it comes to I'm sure with regards to Africa in general, but we can get to that.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um in this case within Somalia, there was a there's a lot of negative sort of media portrayal of uh of the country.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_05: Whenever it comes to uh you know Somalia, people tend to think about piracy, people tend to think about um you know terrorism, famine, anarchy, lawlessness, all of the buzzwords, negative buzzwords, and uh I didn't want uh people to view my country in that way.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and the best way to help combat this narrative is by showcasing stories of people.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um and that's when Somali Sideways was born.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_05: It was born out of the need to showcase the uh misconceptions on how the world views the Somali region and Somali people in general.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's really beautiful.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_04: So you saw a narrative and you that you wanted to change, and you took you took all the tools you had, which included an iPhone, and started snapping stories.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um in terms of storytelling, what stories do you feel like people you just mentioned, everything that all the negative stories that people think of of Somalia and uh the Somali people, but how does that defer to you and your background at home?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, you know I'm sure it's a very different narrative.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's a beautiful family, I'm sure, uh, with culture and heritage.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: Just tell us a little bit about that that difference and how people.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, um, I think uh when it comes to like uh the Somali culture, we are very well known when it comes to being an nomadic people.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_05: We tend to always move around a lot, um, you know, situated in different countries, whether it's in Africa, Asia, um, Europe, etc.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and of course, uh, you know, when it comes to our food, and now uh Somali food is very popularized.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, yeah, that's great.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: The rice, the rice and uh raisin.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_05: The rice, yeah.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_05: Have you tried with banana?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: No, okay.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, yes, yes, having it with banana changes the whole game.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but we've seen a lot of like uh popularization of Somali food, uh, especially in uh in Europe and North America.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we've seen non-Africans um trying our food, which has never been like done on this scale before.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, it's always the one or two people that tend to uh come to the restaurant, but majority of the people that eat Somali food are Somali people, so it was a very um massive uh surge in interest.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh yeah, and of course, when it comes to uh uh our culture, um there's a lot of uh young people nowadays that are very well in tune with what's happening uh with Somali culture than it was when I was growing up.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_05: Uh when I was growing up, being Somali was uh was not something to be told about in everyday conversation.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: We would never like mention it to peers and we would always keep that within us.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_05: We don't we would never like talk about it amongst ourselves or to other people.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um But I thought so it's not because you were like ashamed of your culture where you're inherited.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: It was more yeah, but did it have anything to do with trying to fit in into it?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_05: It was a lot to do with fitting in.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it was a lot to do with uh trying to uh quote unquote integrate into uh British society.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, because I'm from I'm from London, UK.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_05: So um it was trying to assimilate and integrate um into uh British society, Western society in general.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um but that was for you as children.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh is it the same generationally?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: Were your parents the same as well?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: I know for my my parents are are Rundan, you know, we're all Rundon, but uh Miami parents are Rundan and they were always Rundan.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, yes.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas the kids are like, oh, I'm Canadian, like no.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you're Rundan.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, yes.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_05: So for us, it was my parents, they were of course they were every like uh immigrant parent parent, always uh representing their culture, the language, the heritage, and bringing that into the home.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but they felt a sense of um, okay, like you need you're you're in another country, you need to start like learning things uh from that country, their culture and every their values, whatever they do.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh and and unfortunately, um that resulted in losing an essence of being Somali along the way.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not saying like obviously I'm not like that now, but when when I was growing up, it was a lot of like you know, it was a confusion, period.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_05: I was living between like two worlds essentially.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and this is uh relative to so many Somalis uh around my age growing up.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_05: But uh now you're seeing a lot of Somalis interested in the culture.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_05: Um, they're wearing the um, you know, the the fits and the the styles, you know, going to represent the re represent it at different events, um, promoting it, um, creating festivals, creating like whether it's food, culture, um literature, music, art.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_05: There's a lot of promotion of it now, um, which is great to see.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_05: And it's uh it's um yeah, it's a massive uh progression in terms of the uh creative arts, in terms of uh academia, in terms of literature, in terms of film, um photography.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, it's um it's it's been uh a long journey um when I first started Somali Sideways.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but the goal was never to be the only one.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_05: The goal was for others to do similar work and to create an umbrella, an ecosystem where everyone is doing their work on a collective sort of unit.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: So when you started Somali Sideways, uh you know the deep dive that I you know I went like really deep.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_04: And the uh all the pictures are so beautiful, but they're a lot of them are singular, right?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's an individual and you're telling their story.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: What I also thought was that was interesting, I want you to explain why you do it, especially in the beginning, you would actually have people stand sideways.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_04: So why why is that?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, um, yeah, that's the that's the first question people always ask me, um, which is obvious and uh it's very um very important as well.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and it's to your face, you can't avoid it no matter what happens.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh it's definitely intentional.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it is.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: It is, it was very intentional, and the the purpose of it is that like everyone has a side of themselves that friends and family can can vouch for the type of person and personality and character that they possess.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and that's the side that's visible to them, and the side that's hidden is only you know a certain aspect of your story that you keep within yourself that no one else knows, and you take that along that journey of life with you.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and the whole purpose of this is to showcase as much of that hidden side uh to the world.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: And is that the story that you're trying to tell?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_04: The hidden side, like really you know, what people hold most dear to them, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because that's their true self.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I guess you know, the side that family and friends know as well, but really their true self is what you want to bring to light.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_05: Of course, yeah.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_05: And um, and the best way to to to highlight a uh a country in in in whichever uh you know area of the world is through its people.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_05: And that's how you get to know uh their way of thinking, their the way they they do things, um, how they do things, what what you can learn from.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_05: Because I believe that you could learn uh so many things from other people and other cultures and other heritage um that you could install uh within your within your own uh cultures.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_05: And uh yeah, so it's uh it's it's one of those things that I um that I feel um that Somali Sideways um it's a platform that represents Somalis globally.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it's not my platform, it's every Somali's platform.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um but uh of course um with that because I've been doing that for just around a decade documenting Somali stories.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um I've collected about like maybe eight to nine thousand stories in that period.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um but yeah, now eight to eight to nine thousand individual stories?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_05: Individual stories, yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_05: Some are like collective, like in terms of like two, but yeah, yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: And you do this yourself or do you commission work?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so I Somali uh Sideways has been um a venture of mine of uh like a passion project, so to speak.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_05: It was uh there have been opportunities where I have been commissioned to do certain stories of documenting not just Somalis, but whether it's the Horn of Africa or Diasporans.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um so yeah, it's a mix.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_05: It started off as a passion, then it became commissioned to some degree.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah, and then it just evolved into so many things.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah, I I I lost count.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: That's really great.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I heard one of you know, this all kind of came to a head in Tesco.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: What happened in a Tesco store?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_05: Oh that's so funny.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_05: That's so funny.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm sure you'll probably laugh it.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_05: Uh till this day, I'm very like shocked that it happened, but yeah, it it happened.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think it's a diaspora story, so share it with us.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's happened to all of us, yeah.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, of course, of course.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_05: So I was in um I was uh heading to my local uh supermarket, uh, which is Tesco, um, for those that are in uh the UK.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_05: And when I was there, I came across um uh you know some items that I wanted to collect for for my family.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um and this uh this woman approached me, this white woman approached me, and she said to me, Um, uh, could you do me a favor?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, Uh, yeah, what's what's the favor?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and she said, Could you um pick something from the top shelf?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_05: Because I can't reach it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and it's the story of my life, because I'm a tall, I'm a tall guy.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, like it's it's it's every not every day, but it happens.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, let's just say that.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so yeah, I thought it was just one of those days, you know, someone just asking for my using my height to get something.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then yeah, I gave it to her and I thought that would be the end.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_05: And then she asked me uh the question, where are you from?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_05: By the way, where are you from?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh for me, I feel like a little whenever people ask me this, I always get a little bit like depending on who's asking me, I give a different answer.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_05: So obviously, if I'm with Somalis, I'm not gonna say I'm British, you know, that's just gonna be like um, or at least if I'm gonna say British first, they're gonna look it's gonna look very weird, you know.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um, they're gonna look at me funny.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um, even though to some extent I am British Somali, then Somali.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but I tend to say Somali first.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um but yeah, with other people I say British.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I just well when she asked me that question, there was a lot going through my mind.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then I just gave her the the whole story.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_05: I just said, you know, I'm born and raised in London, but I'm originally from Somalia.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then she said to me, like, oh, like um that's very interesting because I would have assumed that you're Somali.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_05: I said, uh okay, that's very weird.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um what what what makes you think that uh that I'm Somali?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_05: That's very unique because a lot of people assume that I look so many different countries.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, Somali, Somalia or Somali is normally the last on the list, or maybe second last.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_05: A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people say like Egyptian, a lot of people say Sudanese, Eritrean, Ethiopia.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_05: That's very important.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, basically East Africa, most of it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_05: This whole East.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh yeah, and then I said to her, like, Oh, what made you think I was um that I was Somali?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_05: And then she said, Oh, I don't know, like you're tall, you have uh distinct features, and she was just examining me.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, I was feeling a bit like what's going on here?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I was like, What's going on here?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_05: Like, why is she examining me this close?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then she said something that was really like profound.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: She said, Oh, by the way, like I'm asking if you were Somali or not, because um when I was going through um uh Amazon, I was trying to look for Somali books and I came across this work uh called Somali Sideways.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: No way, oh I didn't know that part of the story.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_05: And um, and I was like, uh then I basically told her that hey, it's um it's me, you know.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then she said, no, you can't be.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, Yeah, I can prove, I can show you my phone.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_05: So I showed my phone, and then she was just shocked, like she was so shocked to a point where she invited me to her home.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh yeah, I don't know about you, but whenever a white woman invites me to their home, I always think of get out, you know, the movie.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_05: So I thought like, oh no, like they're gonna they're gonna take up they take away my organs, they're gonna, you know, slice me up and put me in a suitcase, and then file a missing person's report.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_05: I was very like, oh no, I don't know what to do.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: But then go, definitely maybe don't go alone.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_05: Oh no, so what I did was I sent a location to my friend.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_05: I said, Hey, by the way, this is my location.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_05: So if you don't hear from me in the next like few hours, uh, this is where I was.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then yeah, I decided to go.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then yeah, I went, and then like I'm just like thinking, like, shall I shall I get in?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_05: Shall I not?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_05: There was a lot of back and forth, and I was like, let me just go in.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_05: Then I saw a husband that was there.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then I had you know, British, uh, they love their tea and their biscuits.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_05: So I was just sitting there, you know, eating tea and biscuits, talking about like Somali sideways and you know, like me being a neighbor, because I was like a neighbor to them.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_05: I live like very, very close by.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's so interesting.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: Why do people have an interest in Somalia?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_04: Just just they were just learning about it.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, because um in in in Acton, where I where I live uh and where I'm from, there's a lot of Somalis that are like you know, like around the area.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_05: So I think maybe it was in her case that she wanted to learn more about um about Somalis, especially that there's quite a lot of them in the area.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I was and then yeah, she just searched online, she came across me.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_05: So that's how this whole story came about.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah, I got out of there alive.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh you could be here today, alive and well.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_05: I could be here today speaking to you then.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think what I love about this story is that you know, this Caucasian lady came up to you and had no idea who you are, and you know, all the great work that you've done.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_04: And she had been doing research on her own.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_04: And then once she learned about you, she wanted to learn even more about yourself and your people.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's what I love so much about um sideways stories in general, is that it's really teaching us about different cultures and lands that are so far away from our own.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I know you took your project to China.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: What was that audience like?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: Something that's just so different from from you know our Africa everyday, you know, our everyday African life.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, what was that like?
• 18:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, you've you've you've done your research, Diane.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: I have.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, you have.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, so it was the first time uh I was invited by a uh UNESCO program where they were bringing um African literature um into uh the libraries then in China, um, specifically the the major ones.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_05: And they wanted to bring uh a lot of Africans uh that lived the continent and Africans from the diaspora um and other communities that were there as well, some in the Arab world um that that arrived, some from the um Oceana island states, they arrived there as well.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_05: So it was more of a cultural um, but there were mostly Africans that were there.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh yeah, I bought my book, um the photo book, uh Somali Sideways uh photo book uh in in China.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_05: And it was actually interesting because I came across the the municipality mayor of one of the um of one of the cities and there was a translator and he was he was basically like translating everything that was going on.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um and the municipality mayor asked for my book, but then I was thinking it's in English, so how are you going to I was like in my head, I was like, it doesn't make sense, but because there were so many cameras around me and there were so many people taking photos, I didn't want to be disrespectful.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_05: So I was like, There you go.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, sorry about that.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, I gave him the book and I said, here you go.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_05: And um, even though I didn't see the point, but it's what it is.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_05: I don't I'm trying to figure out whether he actually where he you know gave that book to and who's reading it now.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um, because that was a while ago.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that was 2019.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, uh China was a very interesting experience.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: We should try to get it um because it's a photo book, but I I'm assuming you mean the description.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: We should try to get it translated.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_04: China is a big market, yeah, you know, and they do want to learn a lot about Africa and invest in Africa.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: Good opportunity.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely, yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_05: Africa is the new thing now.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_05: Africa is the is the main focus.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_04: You actually said in one of your articles, Africa is not the new thing, Africa is the original.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, exactly.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so and uh yeah, because Africa is the first human story.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that's where everything um started.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, civilization began in the continent.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I think this is what people tend to forget, which is crazy, it's a massive thing um for people to ignore.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, because you can you can run away as much as you want.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and you know, all this, you know, racism and far-right rhetoric and and all of this nonsense.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but you can't deny the fact that you have an African origin.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_05: You you can't deny it.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's it's fact and it's it's proven.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh yeah, the first uh human skull was said to be in Eritrea.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um at least it's in that region uh where the first human skull, uh the oldest human skull, was uh discovered.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um and yeah, that's uh that's one of the reasons why I decided to kind of like evolve into other communities and other stories and showcasing the world.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um and that's what Sideway Stories came about, and it was it was the premise of.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_05: Africa is the first human story.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_05: So Africa is the first place that deserves to be told where everything began.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_05: And then everything else comes later.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_05: So that's the model I decided to uh to start from.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_05: And uh it's a natural evolution.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I felt um, and yeah, promoting country profiles in Africa, showcasing different topics for people to learn, um, also showcasing stories of African diaspora, uh, diasporans, um, Africans that are in the continent doing great work.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_05: So, yeah, it's a mix of all of that.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: To me, the way I see it is that Somali sideways or sideways stories, because these are two different platforms, correct?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, it's this so I use the same platform, so it's it's kind of like evolved.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_04: So with Somali stories and uh sideways stories, from what I gather is that it is a beautiful story to tell, and you want to showcase people in their most natural form, but you also want to share knowledge, it's not just a pretty picture, right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm wondering how much it means to you that you got invited to China with with libraries and that you are also um housed in Stanford University Library and SOAS University Library.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's I think that's very intentional.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's not just a bookstore that if you're also on shelves in libraries, like there's there's a knowledge component to it.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_04: How much does that mean to you?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, no, that means uh it means so much.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um, yeah, I can't put it to words really, because um it's a form of legacy, uh, if you think about it.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um and yeah, it's something that I always think about what what I'm going to leave behind.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_05: Um, what is it that you're going to uh you know lead once once you once you pass?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_05: And knowledge is one of them things where it's eternal, um, even after you're gone.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um, if you've you know planted the seeds of knowledge to to people.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um and yeah, there's people that are doing their whether it's their bachelor's and masters and even PhD that are reaching out to me to say, like, we're doing uh some like research on Somali uh culture or media or conflict, and we want to use your reason your platform as uh as a source for our thesis or our assignment.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_05: And it and it always flatters me all the time.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_05: And there was a there was someone that received um a first class um at one of the universities, and she tagged me on LinkedIn.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um and she said, Thanks to you that you know, um I able to uh yeah, exactly.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_05: So she credited me and it was yeah, it's uh it's uh it's something that I can't really um express in terms of feeling.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um people using your work for research, um, and that's a form of uh knowledge that would be you know in terms of continue to be shared and to be stored, really.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um so you've built real academic um and human rights credentials.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_04: So you have a master's from SOAS, Masters of Science and Um in Politics of Conflict, Rights and Justice.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, you've also done field work in Egypt, Kenya, and South Africa.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: But I know that you have criticism, you know, you receive criticism that your your work might be soft, uh, it's on the the the kinder side of life, is you're really celebrating joy and dignity.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but what do you have to say to that?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like you saw white space and you decided to fill it with joy.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um but what do you think, what do you think of that?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, um, I I feel like um, you know, when it comes to uh the the work that I do, if it's not meant to uplift um or at least you know create a reflective sort of approach, then then what is the point of of doing it?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_05: You know, like we've seen a lot of like uh clickbait stuff that's been, you know, whether it's mainstream media, you know, putting out like you know, horrible headlines, um putting ethnic uh to the crime, you know, like whether it's like Somali Pirate could be one example, or Somali criminal, or another country, you know, whatever it may be, it's always like they're putting the ethnic uh background first, and it's linking that to criminality.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_05: So there's a lot of that happening.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_05: Now we have like heads of state going on uh going on podiums, you know, uh criticizing uh you know people.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, you know, you have Donald Trump criticizing uh Somalis, you have uh people like Nigel Farage criticizing immigrants, you have uh like there's so many you know different um components that people are just spewing hate.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, for those of you so for those people that uh that feel like I'm I'm too soft in terms of how I do things, I feel like in this world today in today, there needs to be more people who are soft, more people that uh spread kindness, more people that uh spread compassion, more people that put in like a sense of uh beauty, you know, um of the world.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_05: Because that's what the world is.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh like I said earlier, perception shapes reality.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_05: If I if you constantly put out uh negative connotations, people are gonna believe it.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_05: People are gonna be uh you know, saying all this stuff uh that's in like factually incorrect.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um so yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_04: So you've written about sideways stories, and you call it uh you say that it's more than a platform, it's a movement.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it's about a kind of war being fought with words.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: But do you feel like that kind of language, you know, fought with words, is feeding into the negativity as opposed to spreading the joy?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think it depends on uh on how you approach it um and and how you tackle uh whichever thing, which whichever it is that you're posting, um, and whichever story you're putting out there.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, if you're for example, if you're putting out uh uh stuff about uh piracy and uh you put out Somali pirates as if pirates and Somalis are are together, you know.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's like piracy, it's it's a crime itself.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_05: So why are you linking it to a people?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh yeah, that that that that's one example.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_05: Another example could be like uh uh something to do with humanitarian disasters or famine and linking that to like people um when it has nothing to do with it, it's to do with the climate.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_05: The climate are the ones that cause this, not the people.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_05: So there's a lot of like media outlets that are putting out um you know questionable things where people start to have uh a perceived notion of of that of that country, of that culture, of that people, and and it's making people funnily enough, it's making people not want to like like visit or like check out um the uh the the African continent, for example.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_05: You know, there's there's people out there uh believing that Africa is a country.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then there's also people who that say like, oh, you know, people that live in huts and and uh little shed and and and and and all these townships.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't uh why would I want to visit there?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's not why would I want to go and check out that?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_05: Uh when in reality is not the case, you know, that you see a lot of people that are traveling to the continent and they're understanding that there's a secret in in Africa.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um but I feel like the secret has been exposed, especially like in the last like year or two.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like Africa is the continent.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_05: You're seeing institutions like the EU saying Africa is the youngest continent.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and all of these things.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_05: Like, so it's uh it is a reason as to why this is all happening now.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's because it has they don't share our secrets, no, but this is how we have the podcast to share all the secrets to people know how fabulous you know Africa really is.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: I want to talk about you know two uh partnerships, I would say.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, one was a fellowship that you did with African Union, the Media Fellow, the Media Fellowship, um, and then your partnership with Time Africa.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: How do those play into exactly what you're trying to do?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe start with the African Union Fellowship.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_04: How did that come about?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, is it still ongoing?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: Can other young people apply?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_04: How does that work?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, what were the benefits about it?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, sure.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I I got to know so many um journalists and media professions.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, there was a call out.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_04: You studied political science?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_05: So, in a sense of like um like media, like uh storytelling, um, and uh also uh like journalism.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_05: So all of these things are like components.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um so at that time I was yeah, I uh I'm I was a storyteller, still am, uh, and documenting stories of people.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, they saw that work, um, and there were other people that were doing similar work in their communities, and they brought them to and yeah, they brought us together um after being accepted.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_05: So I was the second cohort.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_05: There were there's now three.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um so yeah, the third one is uh they're I think yeah, they're still doing it as as we speak.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh yeah, it was an opportunity to uh to understand like how best ways to to to portray Africa in the best way possible and what narratives uh what's happening on the ground that will push Africa in a positive way.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um so yeah, that was the whole premise.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um how long is the fellowship?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is it online in Britain?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_05: So the way the um the the communications team say is that once you're a fellow, you're always a fellow.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_05: So you're not you're not someone who once you're done, you're never done basically.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um until this day, they you know the WhatsApp group is active, and whenever there's like opportunities or like summits that are happening, they tend to invite some up some people who are interested.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_05: They want to cover certain like um things that are happening in the summits and in the sessions, um, and publish them in media outlet uh websites and and and platforms.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, it's um yeah, we're still in we're all we're all together.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_04: Is there a lot of collaboration happening on the on the group chat?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, there is there's a lot of collaboration.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, like even now, there's people that I'm collaborating with to put out stories for sideways stories, um, even like certain people to connect with photographers, for example.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um, because all the images that you're seeing are people that are on the ground or people who have been there for a considerable amount of time.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um so yeah, they all the all these beautiful images that you're seeing of uh all of the countries that I've highlighted so far um are all done by by by Africans um and people who are you know who do this for a living.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: Amazing.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_04: This is just a personal request.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_04: Can I can I take can I buy one of your pictures just decorate in my house?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_04: I want to decorate in my house.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: I want to buy a few pictures from you, so I will reach out to you after.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, of course.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I can um I can let you know on whichever image that you're interested in, and I'll I'll speak to the photographer.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, there are some that have put out their websites um on their pages.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um but yeah, very, very, very, very beautiful images.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_05: Like, yeah, I just can't get enough of them.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_04: They're so beautiful.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I that leads me to your you know, your work with Time, uh Time Africa.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_04: Because you were talking about how you know some of these issues are global issues that you know get tied to people.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't think, you know, for the criticism, back to the criticism, I don't think you are shying away from issues of our time, right?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: You're just saying there are people underneath those issues.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: And even when you look at the pictures, you can see people living through those issues.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, you can see people living with climate change and how they're um how it's affecting their livelihoods, um, and how they're working against it, uh, working to solve it in their own small way.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I think from what I see, your work with Time Africa actually speaks to the criticism because you're speaking to everyday life within all of the issues that are happening globally.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: What how did that part come about?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, what what's the objective of that partnership?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, no, that's uh that's a great question.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: So with Time Africa, um, they reached out uh to me.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um and that was when I first started uh Sideway Stories in the in the beginning, like around when I first launched in the end of April, uh beginning of May.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um and that's when I started pushing out the different uh avenues of how I'm going to uh tackle this whole uh project um and platform, you know, uh and they came across a few uh topics that I was writing about, um, the countries as well, that I was highlighting as well.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_05: And um, yeah, they reached out to me and they were like, you know, we would love to see how we can work together.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um and uh and then I said to them, I think, you know, putting out topics and country profiles on the uh on the social medias would would be a good start for one, because you're you're you're pushing out um ways for people to learn about the country, things that people don't know about um through beautiful imagery, um, and not the um what I like to call poverty porn um of like displaced Africans that are in seek of you know aid recipients and all this, and and yeah, uh and for example, Burkina Faso uh president Ibrahim Mitraori banned NGOs from doing this.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um and that's a start.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_05: Uh um, you know, putting out uh you know starving kids and making it seem like this is what the whole image of the country represents, but that's not the case, and uh that's the best way of doing it, putting out images that truly reflect um the the country.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_05: So that's how we came uh came about.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um especially when I was highlighting Sudan.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, Sudan did wonders online in a sense of like it reached so many people.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I think when I went to Sudan, I just posted pictures from my hotel balcony.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: And people were like, Wow, that's Sudan! Like they just did not know.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think it you know, they just did not know they didn't know that you know that it has you know the most pyramids, the smaller versions, um, that it's can be so green, that it can, you know, so many things.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm I'm with you with my very basic phone and zero skills, but it also did very well, yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, that's that's great.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so that's how this whole um partnership came about.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_05: And um, yeah, they uh we're still working, we're still you know scratching the surface now.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and yeah, there's so many stuff that I've I've written, so many countries to to to highlight.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um and yeah.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: I think you know the other thing I really want to talk to you about is that you've also done a lot of work with interfaith dialogue, right?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_04: So how um sorry, you've done a lot of work with interfaith dialogue, so work aimed at preventing violent extremism.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: So the idea that culture and faith can do something security forces can't.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_04: Why is that work so important to you in this context?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so um, you know, that's it's one of the other networks, you know, once you're part of it, you're not really, you know, you can't really leave.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it's called IDov.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so that's what the um interfaith uh dialogue is about.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um and yeah, interfaith uh dialogue of violent extremism.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_05: So I Dov.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so they um yeah, so there's a lot of people who are using um you know faith-based uh solutions.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_05: There's a lot of um imams that are involved, there's a lot of pastors that are involved.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, so ways to use religion as a way of healing, um to to to also prevent um you know uh incidences of violent extremism um and other violent um you know uh you know contexts.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_05: Um and that's what the uh the platform is about.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so yeah, there's a lot of um people who are doing work related to uh using faith.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um there's uh Imam from Ghana that I'm really close with.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um he's very popular in Ghana.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_05: He's doing so much work.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um and he's helped a lot of young people um in uh in Ghana to uh preventing them from doing these things.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, there's so many, so many stories to to highlight, so many people to yeah, to to read, so many things to research as well.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um I'm I'd like to call myself a uh I'm a sponge when it comes to knowledge.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_05: Like I just tend to just keep soaking it.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um always say, Mohammed, like how do you know this?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like, how how what made you be interested in this?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_05: And yeah, I always get that a lot.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but yeah, I I guess maybe that's why I have a lot of grey hair, um, and I have a young face, so I don't know.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_04: So you have interviewed and captured stories of thousands of people, really to help them be seen.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_04: What do you want people to know more about you?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_04: How do you want to be seen in this world?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_05: Whoa, um that's a deep question.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I think I would like people to see me as someone who is uh is calm, you know, uh someone who's collective, thinking of it from a collective mindset.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_05: I'm never someone as like an individual, and I know obviously capitalism and you know being in the West always tells you, you know, you know, be on your own.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, I can make it on my own.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_05: Uh fake it till you make it, uh muscle hard and and all of these like like crazy like mindsets, you know, dangerous mindsets as well, if you think about it.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_05: Like we're not machines, we're we're humans.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, and I feel like um, and also this the concept of like benefit, like oh yeah, I'm I'm seeking benefit of this person, I want to use this person for what I want, for what I want to gain.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_05: So there's a lot of this that you know I I tend to stay away from.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I would like people to think like oh Mohammed, someone who's a collective, always thinking about the collective good, um, you know, someone who always wants to uh you know push out uh a unified um uh sort of like uh element to wherever it is, you know.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_04: To the young person who picked up his phone in 2014 and set charge with this mission with Somali sideways and then sideways stories, what surprised you the most over the journey that you saw?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: Of myself or of um of the entire project that's come to life.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, um so for me I've learned a lot more about myself.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so I'm uh I'm an introvert.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes I can be an ambivert.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_05: It depends on the situation.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, yeah.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_05: So I learned a lot in the sense of like public speaking because at some point I had to speak about the work that I was doing to people.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um and yeah, there was a lot of push and pull, and a lot of a lot of people I said no to.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, because I felt like I wasn't yeah, I wasn't ready to go, you know, go on stage and all these things.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_05: But then when you think about it, when are you really ready?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_05: So there was a part of me that was like, Hammed, if you don't do this now, you're never gonna do it.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um so yeah, there was just one point, and and of all events I chose, I chose the one that had 650 people.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um I just felt like you know what, just go to the deep end and just yeah, just start swimming.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I was I was I didn't even like eat like maybe a couple of hours before because I was so worried that I don't know, right?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_05: I was gonna cause this.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, for me I didn't.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_04: So you should.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_04: You should eat first and um preferably don't take coffee.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_04: Caffeine is not good for you if you already have the jitters, and it just increases your anxiety.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_04: I know these are tips I've learned.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's great.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_05: I learned that today.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's not my forte either.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, okay.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like now it's a bit different.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like now I've learned to um uh to compose myself and all these things and all all the public speaking skills I learned as I went along.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but in the beginning, it uh it was it was so difficult.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah, I couldn't even look at the person, I was just looking down.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_05: Like it from uh if if I had a PR team or a communications team, it'll be a nightmare.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_05: They'll be like, you know what?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_05: We don't want to work with you, you have too many problems.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like we then you're on safe, you're unsaverable.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, um, that's what would have been.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_04: You're doing well, and then when it comes to Somali people and uh Somalia, what do you want to be at the forefront of people's minds when they think of that?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I want people to view Somalis as uh as entrepreneurs.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, we're very entrepreneurial people.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um and also I want people to see us as more than what they see online.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, there's so many creative people, uh, there's so many business-minded people, um, there's so many academics.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, uh, when it comes to like also like arts, you know, there's so much.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_05: There's so much.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I just want people to take the time to check out pages where it it doesn't even have to be mine, it could be other platforms.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_05: There's so many that are like showcasing all different types of uh segments of uh of Somalia um and the Somali region in general.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, just have the time to research, um, you know, you know, stop flicking through and do scrolling of all of these like random stuff, and and uh also people tend to say Somalis are funny people.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that tend that it is true to some extent, but I don't want people to view us as funny people only.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, there's more to us.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, I want people to see the whole Mona Lisa, you know, not just a small um corner of the um of the portrait.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Somalis um like all of Africa multifaceted, um, so to see people in all their glory.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_04: So last question It's 2035 you pick up your phone and you see a headline or a photo in your case of Africa.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_04: What do you hope it does?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that's a great question.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, I would want to you know see the different types of faces of people, uh, the different shades, the different uh tribes, the different um cultures, you know, like that's what I want people to to see.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_05: Like there is more to what people perceive Africa, um and you know, it's just showcasing the whole thing, um, and as much things as possible.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so yeah, that's uh that's what I would uh yeah, that's what I would say.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: That's beautiful, and it's because perception drives reality, as you said.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, yeah, yes.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to see more work um about this, please check out Sideways Stories on Instagram, grab a copy of Somali Sideways Photo Book on Amazon, and follow Mohammed Muhammad on Instagram and LinkedIn for more.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: If this conversation meant something to you, please share it and subscribe.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_04: That's how we build.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: Mohammed, thank you so much for being a part of our journey.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for being here with us today.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much, Dayan.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_05: It's a pleasure, and I love the work you do.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_05: So thank you.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, you too.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_04: I am a fan, and I will be a customer very soon.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_04: We'll chat.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, we'll chat.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_05: Take care.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_05: Bye bye.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Diane Decide Podcast.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to subscribe on YouTube, follow on Instagram.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to hear from you.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, live strategically and with purpose.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: See you soon.