Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 39: Raeanne Sarazen MA, RDN - CONSULTING /TECHNOLOGY
Transcript
- Kristen Hicks-roof: Welcome back to Nutrition Connection, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristin Ekstrauf, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, food, and health. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscapes, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. So whether you're a student, a seasoned professional, or someone simply curious about food, nutrition, and health, this podcast is just for you. The views, thoughts and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guests. So let's get connected. Today. I'm excited to bring on a new connection of mine. have Rianne Sarazin. She is the founder of consulting her own consulting forum, Culinary Nutrition Consulting. Welcome to the show, Rianne. Raeanne Sarazen: Thanks for inviting me, Kristen. I'm so glad to be here today and just have a conversation from one dietician to another. Kristen Hicks-roof: So it's always so fun when you're an academic and we use a lot of textbooks and resources. And then when you get to actually put a face and a name connected together, because I've used your complete recipe writing guide when I was an academic. And so I was really excited to invite you to be on the show to really talk about your unique experience in consulting and really writing, editing, ⁓ recipe development. So I can't wait to really dive in. Raeanne Sarazen: Yeah, well, I'm really glad to be here too. and I always like, I always love to find out who's using my book, you know, as an author and you put something out there in the world and you just don't really know who's using it or what the real effects are. And so when I hear from people either through LinkedIn or through email or bump into somebody at a conference, I love to know how the book is impacting their work. Kristen Hicks-roof: I've felt that same part of that because when you're an academic, you publish all these scientific papers and then you're like, does anyone ever even read them or do they get used or do they just sit on the internet? So I will give you that validation. was used, my students loved it. So let's dive in. What inspired you and made you want to become a nutrition professional? Raeanne Sarazen: That was... Well, I would like to have a really passionate story, but it was actually more practical. I was in school. I was actually putting myself through college, working two different jobs, loved science, loved math and science. And actually I thought, well, maybe medical school, but at that time it was taking me longer than I had wanted. And I thought, okay, let me explore what other allied professions that I could do with my... ⁓ science classes and I looked at OT, PT, nursing, medicine was too long. So I saw nutrition and I thought, ⁓ that's really interesting. ⁓ And I could graduate within a reasonable time along with the internship. And that is my truthful story of how I wound up in dietetics. Kristen Hicks-roof: There was no big draw that got you in. What was the draw in terms of medicine? Like, what did you want to do? Did you just want to help people? Raeanne Sarazen: No, well, I think for me it was just this curiosity as sort of the through line through everything I've ever done. But it was like, you know, why things happen, how to help others, you know, fix things. saw a lot within the, ⁓ I guess the medical world even young when the health care wasn't working great. And I just really thought that I was the type of person that could ⁓ be a good listener and actually help people. But also it was the curiosity of how does the body work? and sort of my curiosity about everything. How does anything work? It's the why question. Kristen Hicks-roof: I am still curious. know when I was ⁓ having my first child and I was like, okay, it was so cool to watch this child grow, right? And I was so curious, like, what's the process? How much are they growing? What body parts are they growing every week? And then at the end, I remember when I delivered her, was like, I want you to save the placenta because I just want to see it, right? I want to see the tree of life because that curiosity. So it's funny because I have that also very curious mind. ⁓ So let's talk about your journey. Okay. You ended up deciding nutrition because you could graduate at a reasonable amount of time. So what was the next steps? When did you become a dietitian and what sort of roles have you had until ultimately where you're at now where you own your own consulting? Raeanne Sarazen: So I have been around a very long time, over 30 years, working in the food industry, the food nutrition industry. And my path has been one that's sort of been led by my curiosity. So I started out as a, well, I should say I've worked in a variety of capacities. I've worked in clinical nutrition in hospitals. I've worked in restaurant kitchens as a cook. I've also worked in, ⁓ as a food writer, editor, test kitchen. special culinary producer in food media and publishing. I've sort of to stretch it out as to how I even got to my own consulting, I've done a lot of things. And part of it is, is that I think I was always curious in searching. So starting with my first job out of University of Illinois, I worked at the hospital with head and neck cancer patients back in the AIDS patients on a whole unit back in the 1980s. And that was to me, a super fascinating time. loved my experience in clinical nutrition. And it was really, in my opinion, sort of the first food is medicine initiative, because you had primarily men on this unit who were with wasting syndrome and malnourished and ⁓ really needed to figure out how to get calories into them. And I think that nutrition was a primary role in that. time period and I really loved and enjoyed ⁓ seeing how nutrition could affect in a positive way their health. so clinically speaking, that's how I started. I don't know, did you start in clinical dietetics also, Kristen? Kristen Hicks-roof: I did, started, so I started, had two kind of part-time jobs at the same time. I was in corporate, which I still can't believe I got a corporate wellness job right away. And then I also was in a behavioral health hospital and they were so, so, so different. Raeanne Sarazen: Yeah, well, mean, so what I so I really enjoyed it, you started out traditional TPN, enteral nutrition, tube feeding. And I thought, OK, well, I'm either going to reevaluate. I go to medical school or what else would I do? And at that time, I don't know if you remember or if any of the listeners will know of a newsletter that was big back then. Of course, I think it still exists. CSP is nutrition action health letter. And I used to get it at the hospital and I loved reading it. And I thought, you know, this is really interesting. I wonder if. they would be interested. I had met my husband, he was living in Washington. I literally picked up the phone and I asked if they could use any interns. So I had called, I moved to Washington. I worked as an intern at CSPI for a short period of time. Also though, needing to make money. So I worked at a diabetes clinic and also at a dialysis center. And I continued on with that through line of working with food. And I taught cooking classes to the people who had diabetes. people who had ⁓ the restrictions with dialysis. so I kind of was my first foray into food writing and sort of research was with CSPI, but then also I kept my foot in the door as a dietician in terms of starting to do the cooking part before I even understood that like that was one day gonna be the food is medicine movement, right? And so I stayed in that area and then... sort of really enjoyed my time at CSPI in the sense of like, I think I could write, you know, I'm pretty good at this. And worked at, ⁓ this is another funny story. I opened a phone book, which I think is very funny. I don't know if they even make those. And I call... Kristen Hicks-roof: I phone books when I was a kid. We used to get them delivered to our door and you'd go through the yellow big phone books. Raeanne Sarazen: Yeah, well, I found Edelman Public Relations and I found the person who headed up their food and marketing by getting connected and I was hired as one of their first dieticians. So while we were in this day and age, I so many dieticians in such a great way are lending their expertise in public relations and marketing. But at the time, I was the only person there as that dietician. And some of the things that I did that I was being asked to do like we would represent a ⁓ commodity and they wanted me to develop recipes for their press releases. And so I would be developing recipes, not really knowing much and writing, you know, these very catchy, you know, opening press release for my boss would say, can you make that a little bit more snappy? And I'd be like, what's more snappy? You know, but so that, that kind of kept me into the food writing and ⁓ sort of PR food communications world. And know, fast forward, fast forward, I wound up moving back to Chicago. I worked for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in their publishing department. I also went ⁓ to culinary school and got that training because I had always thought that that would add like another element of professionalism. And fast forward even more, I worked at the Chicago Tribune. I was the test kitchen director, assistant food editor. had... ⁓ Two different columns that ran in the paper. did food TV before sort of food TV and like, as we all know, like it's right on our phones, TV ⁓ was a very popular thing. And after having three children and working full time, I continued to work. did some work in restaurants more. I worked at Charlie Trotters in Chicago, which is a very well-known restaurant, had great experience there. And then I've done just, you know, lot of consulting work that I can. talk about even in more detail, but that's sort of my long journey from clinical to food communications to culinary. mean, there's been many, many other projects and things I've worked on, but that's kind of how I got to where I guess my expertise is today. Kristen Hicks-roof: I what a journey. It's something that I'm learning every episode that I bring on new dietitians. There is no straight path, right? We kind of like go where the wind blows us in a way. You follow that curiosity, you follow your passions and then doors lead to another one. But I think that a couple of key themes that I picked up on is number one, you have to have that motivation and going to find the opportunities because they may not fall on your doorstep, right? Like even going back to opening the... You know, the phone book that takes initiative. And I think that's something really important that these younger audiences who may be listening, you have to have that initiative to be able to open doors that you didn't know were possible. And then two, there was episode with Dylan Bailey. He's also at Ketchum, which is a PR firm just like Edelman. ⁓ And so if you want to dive a little bit into understanding what PR and communications, that is a good episode. But I do like what you're talking about there, Rayanne, of like how you slowly ventured into nutrition communications. But I want to dive a little deeper. How did you ultimately get to writing this very widely used book? I know a lot of my academic friends, The Complete Recipe Writing Guide, that is, you know, underneath the Academy as a resource. So how did you ultimately get there? We knew that you're a chef and that you've been in kitchen, but how did you find that there was a gap? and that you needed that resource. Raeanne Sarazen: Well, once again, the truth is they reached out to me. It wasn't it was not a lifelong. I've got to write this book. But I would also say they reached out to me because they I didn't have a big social media following, but they knew that I had the expertise and the experience to write this book. I could write. I had culinary background. I went to culinary school. I had written for major publications, The Tribune, Cooking Light, The Wall Street Journal. You know, I had done all of that. And ⁓ I also knew from working in the industry that there were chefs that were great cooks but couldn't write a recipe. I knew food writers that didn't know how to cook. So it's like, knew dieticians and doctors who were sharing recommendations but really couldn't translate it into how people actually ate. And so I felt like this book, it started out because the Academy thought all these dieticians are writing blogs and getting hired by... food companies, need a resource. And so I put together a proposal and the book just sort of grew. And I think it's one of the things I'm so proud of because, you at this stage of my career, I really felt like writing the book was paying it forward. And when I was starting out all the way back at the very beginning, when I was developing high protein, high calorie shakes for the people who are HIV positive or with AIDS to literally, you know, currently, I think Yeah, I just really felt like it was something that I could contribute my expertise. I knew people in the field. The book is filled with tips from other experts providing their own wisdom. And I think it ultimately, just in summary for the people who are listening that don't know about the book, ⁓ I would say the book is like the AP style guide, but for recipes. The first six chapters are all on recipe development for either health and wellness. food allergies, celiac disease, people with heart disease, diabetes. It really sets the nutrition standards, which food writers need too, on how to develop recipes. There's another very full chapter on recipe writing, which is sort of the editorial. Best standards, ⁓ recipe testing, which is the most overlooked stage of recipe development. All the standards that were used both at the Tribune and food companies, et cetera. ⁓ nutrition analysis and the final chapter is on ⁓ food styling, photography and video, which is also another thing. know, when I was starting out and I was doing all these things, I didn't even know they had professional titles. So it is a, it really is a solid resource. It's not really just for dieticians though. They, you know, can find it very useful, but I've had a lot of influencers that have used it. I've had people like you had mentioned, Kristen, using it in their academic programs for nutrition, but also in culinary school. So I feel super happy to know that it's winding up in a very useful way. Now we could talk about AI, because I also have with the book in my consulting have done a lot of educational webinars. And a lot of it right now is really ⁓ geared toward how do you use AI in the recipe workflow? How do you use it within your profession? And that is just something that's, as we all know, AI was not around when this book was published in a way that the Academy would have it be part of the last chapter. But ⁓ it's a lot of the focus of a lot of my talks and the teaching that I come in as guest lecturers at different universities and such. So, yeah. Kristen Hicks-roof: What I think, so I was at Teaching Kitchen Collaborative last year and Dr. Wes McWhorter gave a talk on using AI with recipes. And how cool would it be if someone took your recipe guide, made a little bit of formatting to then put into AI prompts to be able to get a better output, right? Because it all depends what we put in the systems of what our output is going to be. And that's where some of the tools I was teaching a graduate nutrition communications course and that's actually where I pulled this in because we see a lot of dietitians who do consulting work for food companies, for commodities, for brands, ⁓ for writing recipes or maybe food photography. I know working at a commodity board, we hire consultants to do that type of work. And so it's great to have this one stop shop. And this is just one piece of your career that we're talking about. But I do think it's important because it does have opportunities for people to gain the skill sets. Raeanne Sarazen: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-roof: if you want to go into your own consulting at some point. So let's talk about as a founder of your own consulting where you do writing, editing, pretty much all the above. What is your day to day look like? What do you do in your current role? And maybe maybe give the listeners like, how do you find consultant roles if maybe you're just starting out because you're well established in consulting. So people probably reach out to you maybe. Go back a little bit and like, how did you find those roles when we were first starting? Raeanne Sarazen: Well, I am all based on honesty. As we said before we hit record, I do a lot of mentoring and I think that ⁓ that part is really important. so I've always been a big networker because I love people and I love to talk to people. And so, you know, I think that the majority of my work, just like what came with the book, that people have reached out to me. But as you can see from my story at the beginning, when I picked up the phone and called CSPI, I think it was Jane Hurley who I talked to, or when I looked at the phone book and it was Jean Regaley at Edelman PR for anyone who's listening, I think that was who took my call ⁓ in that context, that a lot of it is just sort of following your curiosity, seeing who will take your call and being genuine, be respectful of people's time. But I think so much of the consulting work that I also want to say that's in important is that I didn't take shortcuts in my career. am based on depth and ⁓ long years of expertise. So it's not a curated appearance of myself. It is actually real. You know, I have worked in kitchens. I spent tons of time, you know, playing around with recipes. I have, you know, had the context of doing consulting work for ⁓ restaurants. At the very beginning of when they started putting healthy food items and helping them with reformulation of their recipes or now I can work with food companies and they'll call me and want to do the same and how do they market it and can you read this content on my website? How can I make it more appealing? like, or even, you know, I've done work for nonprofits where they want me to look at all of their recipe content, what needs to be redone, what photos, what would you, you know, like it's like cleaning up, it's working as a food editor for them. So I think for anyone who's young and starting out and I just want to be, you know, I have three older children myself, it's, The world has changed. So what my path has been is different today in many ways. I want to be clear about this. I once made a living off of food writing. I don't think you can do that now. Or at least ⁓ maybe Ina Garten can and other very big name people. But the reality is ⁓ it's much different now. And I used to get paid quite well to do recipe development for food companies back. I mean, I did a lot of things that I don't know today if I was starting out, could I actually make a living? ⁓ But I say that with a big but because I am just like every other young person out there. I'm wanting to learn. And I am doing a lot of consulting work with startups where I'm acting as the nutrition and culinary expert. on their team, subject matter experts. So they're building things. I'm beta testing, I'm pressure testing, I'm the one who's there helping. So it's like, I'm really curious about technology and that sort of has nothing to do with kitchen work. It has nothing to do with publishing, but to me, it's just part of this growth and potential that we as dieticians have to contribute in this arena. Kristen Hicks-roof: Well, I think you're right in the sense that the world is ever changing and the roles are ever changing of dietitians. mean, look, 40 years ago in how the diversity of where dietitians are compared to where they are now. I mean, it's expansive. I remember when I was a student at University of Arizona, sports dietitians were just starting out. Like there wasn't even a single sports dietitian at a massive R1 university. And so we've come a long way, but I think with technology, how do we remain curious and still fit as part of solving the puzzle, right? Like we can still have our subject matter expertise to apply to health technologies and startups. And there's still going to be need and desires for recipes, maybe with new ingredients that we never thought of, right? So I think there's a lot of opportunity out there, but you're right. I think it brings on more challenges and that's where the network is really going to come into play. So. Raeanne Sarazen: Absolutely. Kristen Hicks-roof: Let's talk a little bit about science, right? I love talking about science. Like how does science and evidence fuel what you do in your day to day, especially as a subject matter expert? How do you bring that in? Raeanne Sarazen: Well, for all of us, my education is based in science and of course, all data today. But ⁓ I think the lens of which I look through things is still the same. How does it taste? Are you enjoying it? How does it fit? If you have a dietary restriction, how do you still enjoy what you're eating? And I think that there are studies published every week, there's so many of them. And I think to myself, I always do read, there's no doubt about that, but I also feel like I always pull myself back because I've seen it over this long time, whether it's high carb, low fat, all about oatmeal, know this, know that. And sometimes I look at these studies and I'm like, okay, prunes and bone loss, avocados and dementia. I'm like, I just wanna know like. how do I use that avocado in a creative way? like, how do I chop the prunes and put it in the salad? I don't know. I think about like, is what we're recommending practical? does it, you know, is it enjoyable? It's like food is our identity. And so I really believe that ⁓ the science 100 % matters and the crazy science just gets to me. you know, there's like... And when it comes down to it, we all have to eat and enjoy it and it has to be real life. Kristen Hicks-roof: When I think taking the science, so I'm a scientist by training, right? Like I am a nerdy PhD and I love diving deep into all these types of studies. But what I've also learned over time and even when I was a doc student is we can talk science, but if people don't understand it, like we're speaking a different language or if it doesn't mean anything to their life, really you have such a big disconnect, right? So how instead, Do we take this science and put it in meaningful, practical ways that someone be like, ⁓ if I have one extra avocado or serving of X, whatever the food is, then I can help to support X and Y outcome, right? And so it's like, how do you put this into context? And then I think to your point is we know it's consistent with if it surveys with any consumer data. Raeanne Sarazen: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-roof: Taste and flavor are the number one drivers why people are choosing anything. So how do we accompany that with nutrition experts when we talk about, ⁓ eat more fruits and vegetables, right? Like your bland old generic advice, it's like, well, what if that doesn't taste good? Instead, could we use that advice of, okay, we want people to eat more fruits and vegetables. How do we show them how to do it in a taste and flavorful way so that way they actually would do that, right? Like because... Raeanne Sarazen: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-roof: And I think that is so important that how do companies do that, especially in the better for you marketplace that we're seeing a lot of lot of new brands coming out with better for you products. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Raeanne Sarazen: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I, I'm going to go out of tangent maybe a little bit, but I think it's more about experiences. You know, people want the experience and food is an experience. And I think that in some ways health has never sold. think that maybe, maybe more now it is, but I still feel like, people will say what they want to do, but then what they do in real life is different, including how they're eating. So I don't know. I think it's more about like, how do you make. food enjoyable and the experience and especially now with everything being so disconnected from everybody. think there's something about food as a way to bring back community and an experience of learning, you know, that's tactile. So I think maybe the approach like it doesn't, we don't have to lead with health, but maybe lead with other things that resonate with people. Kristen Hicks-roof: No, I completely agree. And I think that's where you're actually seeing success of the food is medicine movement that has really gained traction over the last several years, because you're teaching people how to enjoy nutritious foods. Right. And they're thinking about, ⁓ they're not thinking about a bland, plain iceberg lettuce salad. That's good for them. Right. They're thinking about, OK, how do I use these plants in a new, innovative way or paired with the protein that I love? Right. And so it's you're taking the science but putting it into action. So I think you'll continue to see this food is medicine movement gain momentum because I think people want to food that's good for them, but they ultimately they want something that tastes good. That's why you see somebody packaged products on the market because they taste really good. Raeanne Sarazen: Yeah, no, mean, absolutely. I agree. And I think the food is medicine. Just to comment there is that sometimes I feel like, you know, we as communicators are speaking to the worried well. And then there's the other category of people that go back all the way to my early days of clinical dietetics where, you know, what's their access to food and what's their ability to even eat in a nutritious fashion. So it's like, you know, not to get onto something, but it's more socioeconomic and disparity issues related to health and wellness. And I guess like I would always say, just like with, you're writing recipes or writing or speaking for dieticians, always know your audience, you know? And so if you are putting up a shingle and this is what you're gonna be doing, know, know who you're speaking to and know that audience well. Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah, no, I think you said it pretty well. So you've had a very successful career owning your own business, owning your own consulting. And as you are walking through, I mean, it's pretty incredible the positions that you held across all the nutrition domains. So what is your most favorite or something you're most proud of besides the complete recipe writing guide? Raeanne Sarazen: Well, you know, it's funny that I'll answer with a non-answered. I think my greatest accomplishments have been my children. You know, I mean, I don't think that's what you are asking, but I do think when I look across everything is that I was able to maintain my professionalism while raising three really wonderful ⁓ adult children. So, ⁓ you know, I think what I take most pride in is my scrappiness and hard work and how that enabled me as somebody in the field of dietetics starting out to move from a traditional clinical setting to sort of ⁓ blaze a trail for people in food writing and major publications in public relations, which is now standard. ⁓ I think even now as I'm really trying to work with engineers and data people to be like, We, I have the expertise. You need to hire me. I can help make your product better. But if I can say, and I want to say this too, that like I am enjoying my work with them because I'm learning so much, which is what I love to do is learn. But I'm also taking classes. So even for people who are young, just learning never stops. And I'm at Stanford continuing education doing these online classes right now. I'm enrolled in one titled. ⁓ what is it building AI products in rapid prototyping. So I'm experimenting with vibe coding. And I know that that is crazy because I think most of the people in the class on this online class, they're not people like myself. And I think even a lot of the language, I don't know if you remember or if any other dietitians listening, remember like learning medical terminology. Right? And it's like, part of it is it's a whole nother language when people are throwing out clothes models, you know, this and that. And I'm like, you know, I need to like step back and try to digest it. But I feel like, well, they can build things, you know, we as dietitians can build things too. Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah, you know what brings me back? in my academic life, a lot of my research was on elevating the role of nutrition and dietitians on healthcare teams. And when I was doing a lot of work with all these different health professions, one of the biggest barriers we saw is every health profession speaks their own language, right? They have their own terminology. They have different focuses. And what we were seeing is in these interprofessional consultations, the dietitian would be like, Raeanne Sarazen: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-roof: I don't know what that SLP is talking about. Like what is those acronyms? And then the nurse would say, well, I don't know what the dietician or the recreational therapist was talking about. And it's like, okay, we're all in health and we're all talking about the same patient, but we don't even speak our own language, you know? And the same, think that goes for dieticians who are seeking niche or out of nutrition jobs is that we have to learn how to communicate to a number of different stakeholders and equally understand. So. I'm curious like you, think I love taking webinars and short courses on topics that I don't know about because it helps to expand my skill set. So that way maybe I can speak their lingo when maybe I didn't have. So I do think that is a skill that anyone can learn at any stage in their career, especially in the ever evolving times of AI and technologies. I think it's a good opportunity for dieticians to up skill in a lot of tech language. Raeanne Sarazen: And I think that goes for every profession today. Kristen Hicks-roof: Yeah, no, I totally agree. So what suggestions, we just gave one suggestion, but what other suggestions would you have for someone who's interested in recipe writing or consulting? Let's try and narrow it down to that. Raeanne Sarazen: ⁓ I guess my message would be. ⁓ Know your craft. That would be my message. And learn. Don't take a shortcut. So I would say use the AI tools to help once you know it deeply to become more efficient, but don't rely on it to do the work for you. Kristen Hicks-roof: So I love the don't take a shortcut because I think it's really easy to lean on technologies and not bring our subject matter expertise, which should accompany the technologies, right? And then what other tips would you give for someone who's maybe interested in doing consulting, let's say with restaurants or with brands or with new products? What tips would you give them? Raeanne Sarazen: Yeah, yes. ⁓ I think it's, well, networking. ⁓ I think it's not really so much what kind of tips would I give for somebody who wants to do consulting. The difference is when I was starting out, were barely any consultants, and now there are so many. So the competition is fierce. ⁓ I guess I would say, and I know this seems so old fashioned, but continue to better yourself and learn and follow your curiosity and deepen your knowledge. Because when you are hired, you'll be repeatedly hired. And that's the key. But if you do a bad job, and I've seen this even when people will say to me, ⁓ my gosh, I hired this influencer, I did this, and they were so bad, their recipes were horrible, or they couldn't write, or, you know, and so I think they just don't get rehired. So if you want to be rehired, it's like you get that knowledge through actually putting in the time. Kristen Hicks-roof: No, and I mean, for someone who hires consultants and even as a consultant when I was an academic, I think you are spot on in the sense of be thorough, make sure you complete things on time because that is also a big factor in the rehire. And then really love what you do because you can tell when someone's just doing a job for the sake of the job versus when someone is passionate about the project, you see that pull all the way through. And so I think that is... Raeanne Sarazen: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-roof: To accompany your tips, think make sure you really do a thorough job and that way you do have a better chance to rehire because our profession is small in a way that everyone kind of talks to everyone, especially when we're looking for consultants to do X, Y or Z. A lot of it is referral based. Like, ⁓ I've worked with Rayann before. So here's a really good person that you can work with. So I think that's really good tips. Mike, yeah, go. What's your last tip? Raeanne Sarazen: One more. Be open enough to be direct in asking your colleagues or others about how much you charge. Kristen Hicks-roof: ⁓ I mean, that is such a good one. loved, so there used to be, and there still is the unconventional RD community. I think it's by Erica Juleson. It is still on Facebook, but it used to be really wide open where people would say, getting a lot of feedback and quotes on, hey, I'm doing this, you know, part-time give for ALS community members. Like, what can I charge? Or I'm doing recipe development. Raeanne Sarazen: Yes. Wait, is that still on Facebook? Kristen Hicks-roof: And it was such a good platform. She's then since changed what can be posted on there. But I think someone listening come up with a resource hub that we can have conversations on pay because I do think there is a lot of value and I see it on both sides, right? As a consultant myself and then as hiring consultants, sometimes people weigh undervalued themselves and sometimes they weigh over asked for what they're delivering. And so I think it's a skill that we need to continue to learn, especially with technologies. What creative edge are we adding to the technology that really would make me want to hire you versus just put in through the large language model systems? So I think it takes a bit of, it takes a craft and you can always reach out to people on the show. So I'm going to put their contact in the show notes. You can always reach if you have a question. Raeanne Sarazen: Right. Kristen Hicks-roof: That's what our profession is there for. Rayann, you talked about mentoring. I'm so passionate about mentoring. And I think many people who come on the show want to help those. They want to help you pave your own path in your career. So feel free to reach out to them. Raeanne Sarazen: Yes. Yeah, and I feel the same way. I always enjoy mentoring and I do a lot of it. Kristen Hicks-roof: I do too. You didn't even blink when I asked you to come on the show. You're like, that sounds great. can I get on? So I'm right there with you, Red. I love mentoring and I think it's so powerful for our profession to be able to guide the next generation and the current generation of professionals as they navigate what the new career paths are going to be with technology. Raeanne Sarazen: And I also think though, Kristen, what's interesting is that the younger generation mentors me in a different way. So I think it's a give and take. It's like, I look to the people who have been before me, but I learned so much from younger people as well. Kristen Hicks-roof: So that is actually one of the foundational cores of our RD mentorship program, which I've been running for nearly 10 years. It's all about reciprocity. And that's what I teach. I try and teach a lot of people who I mentor because I get it back. Right. I learned skills and things that I never knew because that was not even part of my education. I know I was talking to a college class last week about kind of what I do in nutrition communications. And I said the know, nutrition focused physical exam wasn't even a concept when I was in school. And so I had to learn that for my students when I was teaching in academic because that was a new part of our profession, right? It was a new skill that we had. And that's just one example that I think it's a bi-directional mentoring. So always keep that. I'm happy to chat more about that if you ever want to know, but okay. Last question, one of my favorites. If you had a crystal ball, Rayann, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? Raeanne Sarazen: ⁓ gosh. ⁓ Well, I think it's already here, but it's worth ⁓ ending on. I think it's AI. I think it's going to transform the workforce everywhere, but specifically related to health care and specifically as we're talking to dieticians. So I think that that is in some ways super exciting. I think back to how I was part of and watched the transformation of the Internet and democratized content. ⁓ creation and distribution and how that changed everything. It made everybody be a writer and ⁓ have a voice out there like anybody and still can ⁓ put out their thoughts. So I think that AI is also going to do the same. It's going to revolutionize the way we all work. And I do think people will say, ⁓ what is it going to do to the human species, et cetera? And in a very intellectual way, we can talk about it, superhuman intelligence. perhaps they are true. AI is actually smarter than all of us. I think that's because I don't have a computer chip in my head to answer every question. think about everything as quickly as AI would. can have it in seconds. It responds to a question. But I think that there's a lot that could be good that comes from it. And that perhaps in the end, It will make healthcare more available to people. It will make nutrition ⁓ assessments and counseling and even the ability to help people eat healthier. Maybe, you know, there are things that I think will be good and why not embrace it? Partially because we don't really have a choice. So don't be afraid about it taking your job. Maybe you'll have a job along with it. Kristen Hicks-roof: No, I like that. And you know, I also had Raul Palacios on the show. He's an AI guru. So make sure you check out his episode. But I do think you're right that it will create new opportunities. And so we need to learn, right? Learn from data sources or information or podcasts or short courses, webinars, you name it. We can learn some of these skills so that way we can apply it because I think it'll build more efficiency and it will build new jobs. maybe jobs that we've never even thought of right now, but how do we maybe go on the backend to help support coding to provide accurate nutrition information, right? Or helping with ⁓ EMR systems to make sure that the AI technology accurately reports and maybe picks up a diagnosis that's nutrition related to help with consults. So there's so much opportunity. Raeanne Sarazen: Absolutely. Yeah. There's so much, right? And I have so much I wish that we could get a team of dieticians and engineers all together. We could create a lot and fix a lot within the EMRs and a lot of things out there. So that's why I'm sort of just motivated to learn myself and further what I can then contribute, including with recipes and food and everything. Kristen Hicks-roof: Overhand. There's so much to come, so I can't wait to see it. And you're not the only person who's forecasting AI. It is already here, but it's only going to continue to grow. So how do we lean in, learn, be excelling at whatever that may be? So thank you so much, Rand, for coming on the show. If you like the show, make sure you like, subscribe, leave a review. But most importantly, check out the next episode, because every episode I bring out a different dietician and nutrition expert to tell their story. Raeanne Sarazen: Thanks, Kristin, for having me.