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2025 1st Quarter Forecast - Shannon Landers · The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business

0:00
Coming up on this episode of The Spiro podcast.
0:04
And so to really understand where you can take your business,
0:09
especially in real estate media, when you're attached to a real estate
0:14
market, you got to understand that market
0:17
because you don't even know what your opportunities are
0:20
or could be if you don't understand what's happening in the world around you.
0:24
With real estate
0:25
Welcome to the Spiro podcast.
0:28
Managing your real estate photography and videography business
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with your hosts, Todd Kivimaki
0:35
and Craig Magrum
0:39
Hi, and welcome to the Spiro podcast,
0:41
Managing your real estate photography and videography Business.
0:45
Spiro is a business platform, a software platform
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designed to help you manage and grow your real estate media business.
0:52
Welcome to a New Year.
0:53
I'm Craig Magrum, your host.
0:55
If this is your first time
0:56
watching or listening, hey, we welcome you to the podcast
0:59
and I just hope you get a lot of value out of this.
1:01
The whole idea behind the Spiro podcast is to help you build a strong business.
1:06
So we're going to be talking about a lot of business topics on this podcast
1:11
each and every week.
1:12
Our our founder, our owner and co-host
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of the podcast, Todd Kivimaki. Welcome to 2025, Todd
1:19
Hey, Craig. It’s great to be here.
1:21
it is fabolous to be back with you all
1:23
we took a little hiatus, Craig, didn’t we
1:25
Yeah, we did.
1:26
We did.
1:27
We have to practice what we preach.
1:28
We talk about slowing down, taking time, breathing, right?
1:32
So we did some of that too, took some time with our families,
1:37
enjoyed the holidays, and now we're back at it.
1:40
Yeah, it's it's exciting for me.
1:43
Craig, The two weeks between Christmas and New Year, they
1:46
I took a lot of that off and I did it somewhat impromptu.
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And I think I've learned I knew I was going to be off
1:51
the Christmas week, but I thought, Well, I'm going to check my email
1:55
and I should have
1:57
not set those expectations myself because I think it was more difficult to work.
2:01
So and then the week after I just concluded,
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I was like, Well, there's I'm going to take it off.
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And I didn't plan very well.
2:08
So just being transparent, I, I tried to be on
2:12
Kinda didn't communicate to the team.
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I boxed the podcast up.
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That's why we didn't have one, because the team was like, Hey, Todd's off today.
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The Wow team.
2:20
And Craig's like, Oh shoot, we have a guest today, so sorry.
2:22
Tyler.
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So I, I learned to be a more effective communicator
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before you go into a whole for a year, just tell people what you want to do.
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That was a very silly mistake.
2:34
So but I learned from it. And
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it's a
2:38
badge of failure that I'll wear and not do it next year.
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I'll take ownership in that as well.
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That I should have been a little bit more proactive in asking questions as well.
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So if you're unclear on something, it's okay to ask questions
2:51
and you probably should just to don't assume anything.
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So lessons that we're learning right off the bat here in 2025.
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Craig, you know, I think we should go back and listen to our critical communication series
3:04
right
3:07
oh, great
3:08
Well, Craig,
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give me give me a minute on the clock here and I'll give you some Spiro updates.
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Here we go.
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We need a we need a clock or a stopwatch.
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Sound effect.
3:17
We have new toys you might be hearing here in the podcast, guys.
3:22
All right, So for updates for Spiro,
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we have pushed the video hosting with Dropbox. New feature.
3:30
So this is exciting. I know many of you are using it.
3:32
Basically what it allows you to do is that it allows you
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to get rid of your Vimeo subscription.
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we use Dropbox to host
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and to stream the video files and we make it very easy
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for you or your editors to place a video file in Dropbox.
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It comes right into the property.
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Website Editor Also, if you use Dropbox for
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video hosting, you now have an upload button
4:01
right in the property Website editor which many of you have asked for.
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You can click upload
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and that goes to a specific folder in your Dropbox that we manage.
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So streamlining, getting rid of subscriptions, we're excited about that
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and we know many of you are using it and having a lot of success with it.
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Looking forward to the weeks and the future.
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We are currently working on a new update that we're
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all between William and I, we're calling the collections ability.
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This is basically the ability to add a collection of media
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to a listing page or to an agent or to a company
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and this has to do with stock footage,
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or this could be additional photos that you've taken of a property.
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And the agent bought 25 photos, but you have ten more good ones
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and you're going to try to upsell them with those ten.
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So they're going to be in a locked collection that you can set
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a price per photo or a price for the entire collection.
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So there's going to be some great ways here.
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The goal with this, y'all, is that we put in features
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that allow you guys to make money basically while you sleep.
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So go take stock footage.
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It's a great thing to publicize.
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It's a thing that our client need agents need that
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put it into collections, make it available to the agents.
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They can look at it and they can buy it.
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And then you're making money.
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They're checking out right there.
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They're selecting what they want.
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Cool thing is, you wake up, you see that you had an order and boom,
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you just made money and you didn't have to do anything.
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so I'm excited about this one, Craig
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Absolutely. All right.
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That's that's all the updates for for this week, correct?
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That's all I'm sharing for this week.
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I like how you tease that,
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folks.
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That's called a teaser.
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It's coming back for more.
6:00
All right.
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Well, it's it's a new year.
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It's a new first quarter here.
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And we're talking about the business of real estate photography and videography.
6:11
And one of the things, Todd,
6:12
that I run into a lot in talking with my clients up here in my market
6:16
is they're always asking you know, how's business for you guys?
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You know, how is your shoots and things like that?
6:22
And we get talking about the market, you know, what's the market doing?
6:27
How are how are the number of listings looking?
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You know, what's the activity?
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And we talk a lot of business and that's a good thing for you
6:34
if you're only talking about photography with your clients.
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I would
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argue that they're probably wondering, are they really interested in my business?
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Because our whole goal is to help them increase the number of their listings.
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So we need to get a good pulse and what's going on in the market.
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And Todd, we've never really kind of discussed how to determine that
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or how to engage people or what to expect, how, you know, how do we as
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as business owners in the real estate media market
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learn some specifics on actual market activities?
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So we have a guest this week that's going to help
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help us talk about that and kind of what to expect
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maybe in general here in the first quarter of 2025.
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I'll let you introduce her.
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Yes. So a guest to the podcast that's been on before
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and you're going to see her a lot more many of you know her.
7:22
She has helped me and grown and scaled Wow.
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And now Spiro with me.
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And the thing about this guest
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is that she just has so much knowledge of the real estate space.
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So yesterday she led a webinar that we did about broker deals
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and the amount of information that was in this,
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just about the different types of brokerages, traditional
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transactional capping.
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it was it's crazy.
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And all of this comes together
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to make your head spin a little bit, but then that you really understand
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your business a little bit better and you understand your client's business
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a little bit better.
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And it boils down to a lot of things, but projections, what is my business
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going to do?
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So I can be ready for it?
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What are the agents business going to do?
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What are the agents businesses doing?
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So I know what my features and benefits or my sales pitches to them.
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So a lot of this soak it all in today and we're going to have this individual
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on the podcast much more.
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We're going to continue to put out more educational pieces
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because this education was instrumental in us growing Wow.
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And understanding the entire sphere
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of the real estate industry, which is incredibly broad.
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So without further ado, Shannon Landers,
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she is our VP of product at Spiro, Shannon.
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Welcome to the podcast.
8:47
Thanks guys. Excited to be back.
8:49
Always good to be with both of you.
8:52
we're excited to have you be more a regular part of this, Shannon
8:56
Yeah, I am too.
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I had actually had my husband listen to the first one.
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He was like, You did so good. so that made me feel good
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And so, yeah, so I'm ready.
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Let's have a great year and just,
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you know, what I really love to do is just I love to see others grow and do well.
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So if we can help even just one person do that,
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then this is all worthwhile.
9:15
Very cool.
9:16
Well, okay, for first quarter, Todd.
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Todd, you want to kick it off here?
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Well, I was going to ask just before we get to first quarter,
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Shannon, why are the why are metrics important?
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Why do you like them so much? Why do we look at them?
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This is math.
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And a lot of us are creative and we're like, oh, math,
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should we even bother?
9:35
Yeah, you know, it's funny you say that.
9:38
Yes, we are creative, right?
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But we're running businesses and unfortunately, math is in business.
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You know, I think we if we all think
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back to seventh grade when we were well, we were probably all learning algebra.
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Now they're learning like trigonometry in seventh grade.
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But whatever,
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we you know, we were like, why are we doing this algebra stuff?
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And now I look at life and I'm like, Gosh, everything is kind of like an algebra
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equation, right?
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So X plus Y equals.
10:08
And so to really understand where you can take your business,
10:13
especially in real estate media, when you're attached to a real estate
10:18
market, you got to understand that market
10:21
because you don't even know what your opportunities are
10:24
or could be if you don't understand what's happening in the world around you.
10:28
With real estate, you know, it is your lifeblood, is a real estate media
10:33
company or photographer is listing listings is what brings you money.
10:39
So understanding what that opportunity is, because I know that there's
10:43
nothing worse than having a goal that's just actually unattainable
10:49
like that does no one any good, right?
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We talk about smart goals, things like that.
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Like you're you should have an obtainable goal and then 100% have a stretch goal.
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I'm all for it. Right?
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But you have to understand these metrics.
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The market again,
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you don't need to be able to go explain them to somebody else
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or anything like that.
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But you do need to know how to look at what the opportunity is.
11:15
Yeah, for sure.
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I think I think one thing that a lot of us are doing or have done,
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we haven't done at Wow we're thinking about 2025
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and we're trying to project or think
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or hope for what the year is going to be.
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So maybe you're doing 3k a month right now and you want to get to 6k
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or maybe your 20K, and you want to build a team
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and get the 50K a month or whatever your numbers may be.
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You're probably
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looking at what last year was, where did you end up?
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If you don't know those numbers, just go in to Spiro, click metrics
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and it will show you all those numbers that will show you monthly.
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It will show you your yearly figures.
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So now we need to look at those and we need to understand what could be.
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So a lot of this has to do with what do you want to do?
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Remember, a business is
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an profitable enterprise.
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Ideally works without you, but you have to work in it
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until you get to that phase.
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But the business you started for your personal goals
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and that's something that we talked about this about a year ago that is always
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is somewhat at times tough for me to think about, like, oh,
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my business is going to do what I personally want to do,
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but that
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is why you started your business, because you didn't want to work for a boss
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you hated or you wanted to follow a career that you had passion about.
12:48
You wanted to help people, whatever your why
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is, that's why you started your business.
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So in order to obtain that and work
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towards that life goal,
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we need to look at 2025 and what is 2025 going to do?
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And you need to compare it to 2024
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and what the market is going to do, because much like Shannon
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said, listings are our potential for the most part.
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If there's a sign in the yard,
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I hope the agent calls me so I can take the photos and video.
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That is what we're hoping for and that is all dependent
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on what the real estate market does.
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And the real estate market is the number one driver to the entire economy.
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It's the number one thing that drives the economy.
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It's amazing
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how many people don't think about that and or understand that the housing
13:37
I mean, if you want to remember, just go back to 2008
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when the housing market crashed and everything else did with it.
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So the American dream is truly
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at the heart and soul of everything we do in our economy.
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And I think that's why I'm so passionate about it, too.
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Like becoming in real estate when you actually realize when you help
13:59
people purchase or sell
14:02
their largest investment of their life right.
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How powerful is that?
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Like, I really do think, you know, yes, there's crappy agents.
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Okay, we'll just say it. There are crappy agents.
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We know this, We deal with them on the other side of our transactions.
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We get it.
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But there is a world of amazing agents
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who work super hard for their clients and hence why.
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Maybe they're a little cranky with you, right?
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Because they're dealing with their clients.
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And I've always said, you know, why do we call them consumers?
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Because they
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consume the life out of us.
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And that is just the trickle down effect.
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But being a realtor
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and let me say that really quick to all of you out there, this was something
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I was corrected on back in 2013 when I started working at a brokerage.
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And in at the moment I was irritated that I got corrected.
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But looking back it was the best day.
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It is realtor.
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It is not realtor
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it is realtor
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So it makes sure
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when you're doing presentations, when you're up in front of people,
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you use realtor.
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Because I promise if you say realtor,
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there's going to be 100 people in the crowd that make fun of you.
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Just a little nugget there. Okay? Yeah,
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that's a good one.
15:24
That's a good one.
15:25
Yeah.
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It's very, very much thanks to a manager at my first brokerage
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for setting me straight on that years ago.
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All the little things we pick up and it just makes us sound more relevant.
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Like we understand.
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Like we understand our clients.
15:39
Yeah.
15:40
And that's what this is about, right?
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And not only like, and we'll get to this stuff, but like,
15:46
this is an opportunity for you as a photographer
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to maybe have coffee with a broker, an owner, and say, Hey,
15:52
explains to me what's going on in the market right now.
15:54
I'm hearing this.
15:56
I'm hearing rumors like, tell me.
15:59
And they're going to find that
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just because you're interested and understanding their business,
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that is going to create more likability and trust.
16:08
Exactly.
16:09
for sure.
16:11
For sure.
16:11
So with knowing, Shannon, that the real estate industry is the number one
16:15
driver of the economy, and we're trying to understand as business owners,
16:20
as real estate media, business owners, what should we think about for 2025?
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Maybe this is the year we can make the same amount
16:29
we did with the job we quit.
16:31
Maybe this is the year we can quit our job.
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Or maybe this is the year we hire a team member.
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What can we expect?
16:39
What what does 25 look like
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in the real estate industry compared to 24?
16:47
Yeah, this is so exciting to talk about.
16:50
- So and I'm going to take a little bit of a history road to - please do.
16:55
Yeah.
16:56
So at the high of 2022,
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you know, as we thought, especially with COVID in 2020
17:03
and we thought the market, you know, oh, where we're headed down, here we go,
17:08
and then we kind of bounce back up because now people are working remote
17:11
and they can work anywhere. And so the people are moving.
17:14
So we ended up, you know, at the height of
17:17
6.6 million houses sold, I think was the number in 2022.
17:23
Roughly so highest amount of houses we've ever sold in 70 years.
17:28
We have records, right?
17:30
And then here comes the middle of 2022 or I'm sorry, that was the end of 21.
17:35
And here comes the middle of 2022.
17:37
And all of a sudden we just we see it we feel it in the industry.
17:40
Like we just see it start going down and down and down.
17:44
And the reason being the main reason, I mean, is what went
17:46
up, up, up interest rates, right?
17:49
As we're trying to correct inflation that, you know, the biggest lever
17:53
they like to use to correct inflation is interest rates.
17:57
So and those just kept going up, up, up.
18:00
Now you couple that that we've had a ten
18:03
previously a ten year low of interest rates.
18:07
Right.
18:07
You know 51% of people out there with mortgages
18:11
have a 4% interest rate are lower right.
18:15
It’s crazy.
18:16
Yeah.
18:16
And I'm just going to tell you guys, all right now, and this doesn't
18:19
this didn't come out of my mouth.
18:20
This came out of Gary Keller's mouth on stage.
18:23
We will probably never see 4% interest rates again.
18:26
So just get over it now.
18:28
Deal with it, swallow that pill and move on.
18:32
Okay.
18:33
So we have moved on and what we've got down to in 2023,
18:38
we got down to 3.8 million houses sold.
18:46
Half.
18:47
So you guys might have noticed you're seeing a lot of agents
18:50
over the last couple of years that left the market, you know, are newbies
18:53
that didn't get going. well, because we had a million and a half
18:57
real estate agents in the market got cut in half.
19:01
So that is really honestly a norm, a very normal cycle of real estate agents.
19:07
And you got to know the market cycles typically every 7 to 10 years.
19:11
That is a very normal cycle of the market.
19:15
So what goes up must come down and what goes down must go up.
19:19
That is the way of the world.
19:20
So now we end 2024 and we're probably going
19:24
to be roughly about 4.2 million houses sold.
19:28
So we've seen we've we've gone down and we see now we're going up.
19:33
Okay.
19:34
So now the prediction for 2025 and by the way, all this stuff is online,
19:38
but you guys can go to the Nationals Association of Realtors
19:42
website and you can do all this reaches research yourself.
19:45
Now, I am very happy every quarter to deliver this to you,
19:49
but you can all of this is available to you.
19:52
You can also go to your state
19:55
board of Realtors.
19:56
So like ours is Ohio realtors dot org.
19:59
So whatever state you're in, check out your local information
20:02
and then you can even go to your local board and get housing statistics.
20:06
So all of this is online, but we're predicting about four
20:10
and a half million houses sold in 2025.
20:15
So then what do we see?
20:16
We see we're going from 3.8 to 4.2 to 4.5.
20:20
Right?
20:20
So we're we are on our way back up, which is a wonderful thing.
20:25
Now, that is a national number of existing home
20:30
sales that we target should hit.
20:33
Is that four and a half number?
20:35
And honestly, if we took back and went back to all the historical
20:38
information, four and a half is about normal.
20:42
Yeah, right.
20:43
Yeah.
20:44
So, so the market, you know, is normalizing.
20:48
And I promise what it's not going to do is bust.
20:51
Guys, the market's not busting.
20:53
There's no housing bubble.
20:55
Yes, prices have increased, but inventory is still not high.
20:59
So we can break into some of that stuff.
21:01
But that's what we'll see for 2025, at least from The Economist.
21:05
So these are very smart
21:06
people who get paid a lot more money than I did to create these numbers.
21:10
So, you know, they're the smarter people in the room.
21:15
That's what they're projecting.
21:16
They're also predicting another rise in 2026.
21:19
So I think that's what's nice.
21:21
They're saying we're going to go up about 11% next year
21:25
and then another 8% in 2026.
21:27
So I think we're headed in a really good direction.
21:31
That's interesting.
21:31
So if you're out there listening and just one thing to preface
21:35
this is that this is US, this is US data.
21:38
Canada trends with us.
21:41
What I will be able to provide and on the next call is
21:45
I will have data from the Canada market.
21:48
So I will be able to provide in our next quarter call
21:53
the Canada and U.S.
21:55
market information.
21:57
Awesome, awesome.
21:58
So looking at this though, if you're an international listener
22:00
that don't turn us off right now because there's going to be
22:04
we're going to tell you how you use this data
22:06
and you'll just have to go get your own data.
22:08
Like Shannon, I realized something yesterday when we were doing the webinar.
22:11
Tebow was like, Hey, we can't do a broke.
22:14
A lot of our brokers don't want to eat the cost of the media
22:19
because only 30% of listings actually sell.
22:22
- I was like, I was like, - Really?
22:25
Yes. only 30%.
22:27
Yeah, I'm so excited to research that market.
22:30
Todd I'm going to dive in because I am.
22:32
I am like, That would be exhausting.
22:36
Wait, which market is that?
22:38
He said the French market. The French, French.
22:40
Oh, yeah.
22:42
So look at your market.
22:44
See what it's going to do, and then you can use these same tactics.
22:48
So let's just say no matter where you're at, if it is a pretty much flat market,
22:52
you know, listings are about what they were last year.
22:55
They're going to be up a little bit from a general whole.
22:58
Now, I would suggest that you go to your state or local agency
23:01
and see because there's factors
23:04
when you think
23:05
about it, there's factors that affect those numbers
23:09
and knowing that you don't want to zig when you should zag, like
23:12
if your market actually is going up a ton
23:14
because you have a lot of people and industry and people moving in,
23:17
you might need to prepare a little bit differently or vice versa.
23:22
So in knowing that the industry is going to be about the same,
23:26
we're going to see a lot of what we did last year as far as listings
23:30
and agents that you can call, your clients are going
23:34
to get about the same amount or maybe a few more.
23:38
The further also the further
23:40
we get away from everybody expecting a 4% interest rate or lower
23:45
like I'm might I'm at two and a quarter on a 15 year loan it's like
23:48
and everybody who is in that like I'm never moving like I'm literally building
23:53
I'll build a house on top of mind before I move
23:56
Or you'll have to wait till the equity reaches a point that it makes sense
24:00
and that so and that's what's kind of happening.
24:02
And so this we're kind of on the interest rates
24:04
that let's just talk about that right.
24:06
Yeah yeah can you can you explain.
24:08
So the equity so equity interest rates, will they even out.
24:12
How would you what's that math problem look like, Shannon?
24:14
Yeah.
24:15
So essentially, you know first interest rates
24:19
were predicting that they will balance out around 6% this year.
24:23
We're not going to see too, probably too many crazy drops just because we did.
24:29
We still are dealing with some inflation.
24:31
And even with the change in the politics, like him
24:34
or love him or hate him, we're still kind of in this flux.
24:38
So the Fed's not going to start dropping interest rates crazy, but they do predict
24:42
that will end up kind of hovering around six,
24:46
which mind you, the 50 year average of an interest rate is 7.2.
24:50
Okay.
24:51
So again, six is a very normal interest rate.
24:55
And if we end up landing there, then that that that's really where we want to be.
25:00
That is a very healthy interest rate. Okay.
25:03
So what happens is over time, as you build equity
25:07
in your home, right, you've paid down your mortgage, you're getting down there.
25:11
Of course, prices have increased year over year.
25:14
We're still looking at some prices increasing, not as drastically high
25:18
as the years prior, but we're still going to see probably a 2% increase
25:22
in prices over the next year and then another 2% after that.
25:26
Okay.
25:27
Again, a home or a house is always a great investment.
25:31
Okay. Always a great investment over time.
25:33
So when you build equity and so you have you know,
25:36
you bought your house for 300,000, you only owe 200,000.
25:41
And now that house is worth 350,
25:44
now you have $150,000 of equity that you can take
25:49
and put in as a down payment on that next purchase.
25:53
So that kind of makes those interest rates not seem as scary, right?
25:57
If you bought a house last year and you need to sell it
26:00
or let's say you bought a house in 2020 and the interest rate was 3%
26:04
and in 2021 or 2022 you had to sell it and interest rates had gotten to 7%.
26:10
That's going to hurt, right? That does that.
26:12
That's painful, you know, And so we're getting to a 6% interest rate does.
26:18
And as equity builds and prices still kind of increase a bit,
26:21
that gives people the ability and the freedom to move if they want to.
26:26
Right.
26:27
When the Ds happen.
26:28
Do you guys know what the Ds are?
26:31
Oh, boy.
26:31
I
26:33
No idea
26:34
I'm just careful about this one, Shannon, I
26:37
I'm just gonna
26:38
we're talking divorce.
26:41
Right.
26:42
We're talking death.
26:44
Unfortunately. Right.
26:47
We're talking about, you know, when families grow or they're downsizing
26:52
right now, those are the things that, you know, affect people purchasing.
26:57
You know,
26:58
unless you're Warren Buffet
26:59
you're not like out there buying houses for the heck of it.
27:02
Right?
27:03
True.
27:03
Sure.
27:04
Now, I mean, definitely there's a lot of other people that can go do that.
27:08
But typically what we see in real estate, especially due
27:12
to some of these math equations, when is the best time to buy a house?
27:17
When you need to
27:18
When's the best time to sell a house?
27:21
When you need to?
27:22
Okay.
27:23
Because over time,
27:24
you know, if you're sitting there trying to wait and say,
27:26
oh, the market's going to crash and we're going to get, you know, a cheap house.
27:30
But guess what?
27:31
By then the interest rates have risen and you're not saving any money.
27:36
So and prices have increased.
27:38
So, you know, even if that just doesn't work, we see
27:43
over time that doesn't work.
27:47
my financial guy says the same thing about investing.
27:49
It's like, oh, Ryan, should I put it in Now?
27:51
He's like, just look at I'm not looking at it.
27:55
You're not trying to flip it in six months, Todd.
27:57
You want to retire in 30 years?
27:59
Yes. Put it in.
28:00
I'll handle it and make sure that you're taking care of.
28:04
But if you have money to invest, invest it now.
28:07
So that's that's the biggest thing.
28:10
One other quick point I want to make, Shannon, and correct me if I'm wrong, but
28:14
buying and or selling, mainly buying, because then they have to sell.
28:18
If you own a house,
28:20
all of those numbers come down to one thing and it's it's binary.
28:24
Can we do this or can we not do that?
28:26
It's monthly payment, right?
28:27
Shannon That's that's what it comes down to.
28:29
We need an extra bedroom. The house cost this.
28:32
Somebody do the math for me.
28:33
Can I afford that monthly payment?
28:36
Absolutely.
28:37
And I actually urge people to look at monthly payment.
28:40
Just, you know, don't look at it overall.
28:42
Here's the thing.
28:43
If you've bought a house, when you're signing the hundreds
28:46
of pieces of paper that you have to sign at the closing table.
28:49
Right.
28:50
Have you looked at the Amortization table and have you looked
28:53
at what you would pay overall for that home over tearing a number?
28:58
You're like, wait a minute, I bought a $300,000 house, but I pay 450, right?
29:04
Like it. And here's the thing.
29:07
You typically most people only live in that house, especially their first house.
29:10
7 to 10 years.
29:12
Yeah, you're over time.
29:13
You're not paying that amount. Right?
29:16
Things are going to happen.
29:17
Life is going to happen.
29:18
You might refi, you move.
29:21
Right?
29:21
So, you know, over time, the interest rates, honestly,
29:27
you know, they they matter, but they don't matter.
29:30
And meaning, too, that there's multiple ways to purchase home.
29:34
So there are still ways to get into a low rate for five years and then refi again.
29:40
You know, you can always refi really say, you know,
29:44
date the rate, marry the house.
29:48
Right.
29:49
Marry the house
29:50
and you might date the rate and you might do different things to do that.
29:54
So so I mean, this forecast to me, I'm excited about this.
29:58
You know we have seen in the last two months existing home sales
30:04
percent year over year, so month to month.
30:06
So saying December of 24 to December of 23,
30:11
we have seen home sales increase for the last, November and December.
30:17
And what that means is that we do feel we're we're over the hump
30:22
and we're over this little hump that we had in real estate.
30:27
And we're projecting that those steady
30:30
increases in home sales will happen,
30:33
which means more listings
30:37
on the market to get jobs for,
30:40
to meet new agents to work with them, provide them other services.
30:44
So that is really all good news.
30:49
On the 2025 front and summer of last year,
30:53
we still were unsure what would kind of forecast out in 2025.
30:58
There is about three different scenarios.
31:01
So I think we we all feel pretty comfortable now that
31:05
home prices will tick up.
31:07
Now, what could happen a little bit?
31:09
What could happen is the this kind of bump back up
31:13
in real estate could bring more agents and to so that is that something else
31:18
to think about in the reality of all these things that matter
31:22
is that we sell a reduction in agents which quite frankly we needed.
31:28
And then now as the market starts swinging back up,
31:31
you're going to see people, especially the companies that sell real estate
31:34
classes, kick up those ads
31:37
and try to bring more agents back into the business.
31:41
Yeah, that that makes sense.
31:44
So good news for all of us.
31:46
Real estate for real estate, media company owners and businesses.
31:50
We have a little bit more potential, but we're heading in the right direction.
31:55
And so, Shannon, maybe let's take this from
31:58
how do you you talked about a couple segments of realtors.
32:02
You know, we talked you just talked about new agents
32:04
potentially coming in and we have established agents
32:07
and then we have what we call our VIP clients.
32:09
So clients that do a lot with us and we can expect more new agents in
32:14
and it might take them some time to get listings, am I not?
32:17
If they're really connected in their community.
32:18
We saw that a couple of years ago when everybody got in in COVID and that really
32:26
that spread out the listings among agents.
32:30
How would you think about those segments of agents right now?
32:35
If you're a media company business owner, what would you focus on, Shannon?
32:41
You know, I, I always think it's a good idea.
32:43
Make sure new agents know who you are.
32:46
Right?
32:47
So because if you can get them from the get go, that's just easier, right?
32:52
If you provide them
32:52
that great service, you're not fighting for their business later.
32:56
Of course, you don't know what that new agent will eventually be.
33:00
Well, they stick it out or they make it.
33:02
You know, this is a 90% fail rate in their first year as an agent.
33:05
Wow, wait
33:07
Explain that, Shannon.
33:09
what does that mean, 90% fail rate
33:12
So let's just I mean, let's just say a thousand new agents join in a month.
33:16
A year later, 900 of those will be gone.
33:20
- Wow. - So I have to tell a quick story.
33:24
Earlier this year, one of my clients, we were going into a house.
33:28
I was getting ready to shoot it and he stopped on the front porch.
33:31
He turned around and looked at me, said, Crack.
33:32
Have you ever thought about being a realtor?
33:34
You just you have a really good way with people.
33:36
I think you'd make a really good realtor.
33:38
And I just kind of grin.
33:39
I said, Rob, I thought about it for about 2 minutes when I first
33:42
got into this business and I decided, No, nope, I'm going to stay a photographer.
33:46
I've seen what you have to deal with
33:49
with that 90% stat.
33:50
Yeah
33:51
Well, and often and I think this is so great because I think this correlates
33:55
with with being a real estate photographer in a company.
33:59
And once you, you know,
34:00
real estate agents are entrepreneurs, they are independent contractors.
34:03
They are taking this on.
34:05
They are not getting paid hourly from the brokerage.
34:07
They're not employees.
34:09
You have to self-sacrifice
34:13
all the things which is all the things you have to do
34:15
as a real estate photographer, Right?
34:17
You're an independent contractor.
34:19
You're opening your own business.
34:21
You're doing all the same things.
34:22
So a lot is similarities in that.
34:25
And what we see is accountability goes out the window
34:30
there.
34:31
it's very hard to keep yourself accountable,
34:37
especially if you've been an employee for years and years and years,
34:42
and then you have to switch gears and now there's nobody telling you to clock in
34:47
at a certain time or, you know, put this work in or hit these deadlines.
34:51
And so it's why coaching is actually so important in these spaces
34:58
because you just need somebody to help keep you accountable.
35:03
And it's typically very hard to do that by yourself.
35:05
So whether you get an accountability partner,
35:09
I think we talked about this in Vegas, like we see
35:12
groups of people kind of keep each other accountable to what they're doing.
35:16
And I think that's great.
35:17
You know,
35:19
this all it's
35:21
hard to grow without somebody kind of pushing you.
35:24
Now, some of us have that drive inside and that's okay.
35:27
You know, I'm a I am an A-type personality.
35:30
If anybody hasn't figured that out by now,
35:33
very A like.
35:35
And I'm typically very self driven.
35:36
But I do feel as I get older, I see that drive decreasing just because I’m tired.
35:45
so it's very similar.
35:47
So I think, you know, agents, new agents are great.
35:51
Or to get in touch with
35:52
I one, it's been crazy amounts of time like awareness with them.
35:56
Right.
35:57
Making sure they know who you are especially have like a brokerage
36:00
has you in a lot like they typically have new agent classes
36:04
teach one or attend one say Hey, can I come in and just meet, you know,
36:08
they'll do an orientation with new agent, be a part of that.
36:11
You know, maybe at that point it might not be a listing that you get.
36:14
Maybe you maybe do headshots and you can do headshots for them.
36:18
You know, speaking of that,
36:19
you know, just doing headshot, if you like headshots and you can do it
36:22
and there's a brokerage you want to partner with,
36:25
maybe go and set up headshots every other month that you do for them
36:30
and charge a nominal fee, you know, So there's ways to kind of make sure
36:34
that you provide some value to those people and then they know.
36:37
And like you right now, I would be focusing on teams.
36:43
So we've seen
36:45
teams explode in real estate, right.
36:49
And and a big reason why is who wants to be a broker.
36:52
A broker bears all the responsibility right
36:57
Yeah.
36:57
So you can be a team leader of a team
37:01
and operate a very large team.
37:04
And and kind of to your point, Todd, end up maybe
37:07
being out of the business and watching your business flourish.
37:11
And that's very appetizing to a lot of agents.
37:14
You know, they do want to grow a big business
37:16
and then be kind of on the outskirts of it.
37:19
So I would say teams are a great resource one
37:23
because they're they focus on listings.
37:25
If you have a team, you have to get listings
37:29
because listings create babies, create more listings.
37:33
They also create buyers.
37:36
So if you're carrying the inventory, buyers
37:39
see your inventory and that typically brings buyer leads too.
37:42
So I think that is really I like
37:46
I like focusing from the top down and that kind of helps you do that
37:49
with the teams and it could help you get in with the brokerage easier too.
37:54
Can I jump in on that real quick?
37:56
It's interesting that you brought up the teams issue because, Todd,
37:59
you and I have spoken a lot about, well, you as well Shannon, about broker deals.
38:04
And one of the creative ways of partnering with a brokerage
38:08
is suggesting to them that they pay for their agents photos.
38:12
Right. As a recruiting tool.
38:13
We've we've talked about that.
38:15
Well, I just ran into that at the team level.
38:18
I just signed on a new team this week
38:21
and the team leader is doing the same thing.
38:24
She's fronting a certain amount of money for photos for the other agents
38:29
on her team
38:30
Yeah. Yeah.
38:31
And that's the first time I've ran into that in my market.
38:35
So you can take that that idea
38:37
of the brokerage level of, you know, broker paying for photos.
38:41
And you can introduce that idea to teams to help team leaders
38:45
- attract more realtors to their team. - To their team, Absolutely.
38:48
Because they're trying to grow and provide value to in Spiro.
38:51
what I love about Spiro, sorry, I am going to drop some Spiro stuff for you
38:54
because I am the VP of product for Spiro
38:57
and that drop a little bomb.
38:59
What I love is the account manager aspect in Spiro where teams
39:04
because typically a team is going to have a director of marketing
39:07
and they can be the account manager for all the agents and then the rest
39:11
agent.
39:11
You know, it's such a benefit to kind of showcase that.
39:15
So sorry, just dropping
39:16
a little thing that I love about teams and you're going to see more teams.
39:20
We we see this in the industry teams.
39:22
Teams are kind of the future because again, they don't want to be a broker.
39:26
They don't want to have ownership.
39:27
They can build a big team and still be very successful
39:30
many brokerages and not bear all the responsibility.
39:34
So we'll continue to see
39:37
the this kind of formula out in the market.
39:41
You know, so interesting, it just hit me because I'm slow,
39:44
but this is no different than what we are doing at our own business, right?
39:49
We have started and once you get your business going,
39:56
you're going to hit a point.
39:57
And trust me,
39:58
you're going to hit a point where like, I'm kind of done shooting houses.
40:01
Yes, you will.
40:03
You will.
40:04
But you're like, I really like to connect with agents
40:06
or I'm done shooting on two days a week or one day a week, whatever it is.
40:10
But you get to the point
40:11
that there's going to be some other things that you want to focus on
40:14
and you're going to hire photographers and you're going to say,
40:17
Hey, we've got this great thing where you can be
40:19
creative, will supply your equipment and we'll give you jobs.
40:23
When you need jobs, you'll get paid.
40:25
You don't have to edit all this other sell points of why and why we try
40:29
get people to come in and be photographers at our company.
40:32
That's the exact same thing that these top agents are doing.
40:36
They're getting a little tired.
40:39
Yes. Yes.
40:40
They don't want they don't want any buyers.
40:43
They don't want they want no buyers.
40:45
They only out at nine showing houses out on the weekends.
40:49
Right.
40:49
They want to go to those
40:49
listing appointments, get those listings and let the team team handle it.
40:54
It is Todd.
40:55
It is extremely insane how much we correlate.
40:59
Again, this business is business sales is sales.
41:03
But when you're dealing with something that typically is that kind of that
41:06
independent contractor status and then you build a business,
41:10
it all is very similar.
41:12
And I think that's important to really focus in
41:15
and let agents know, Hey, I'm doing what you're doing
41:19
right, Like let a team leader know, Hey, I'm doing what you're doing.
41:23
I'm building out a team Like they get excited about that.
41:27
These guys are entrepreneurs. They're like you.
41:29
They love this stuff. They get excited.
41:32
So, you know, share in that knowledge, share in the heartaches and the
41:36
and the pain points, you know, agents are real
41:39
people at the end of the day and they’ll really appreciate just the realness
41:44
and the realness of saying, hey, this stuff can be hard.
41:47
You know?
41:48
but when you get it going right man, is it is it beautiful?
41:52
And does it provide you the things you need?
41:54
Yeah, that's.
41:55
And for all of you out there that are saying, Hey, my agents only expect me,
42:01
your agents are doing the same thing, just be honest with them like Shannon said
42:04
and be open. Hey, I'm building a team.
42:06
I think that's so that's such a fabulous angle to take from it
42:10
to correlate that to them so that they connect with you
42:13
and they go, Oh, yeah, I did the same thing.
42:14
Like, I don't want to show, I don't want any more buyers.
42:17
I don't want to show houses at 8 p.m.
42:18
on a Tuesday or a Saturday.
42:21
Oh my gosh, we weren't guys.
42:22
We were showing houses at midnight when we were in the crazy.
42:26
Like when we got down to in Dayton, Ohio, we get down to like 500
42:31
listings on the market
42:33
- in all of Dayton? - in all of Dayton.
42:36
And to put this in perspective,
42:37
when I got in in 2013, we had 6000 houses on the market.
42:41
You were down to 500 guys.
42:44
I thought agents were going to chew each other's heads off, it was very unhealthy.
42:49
You'd have 40 cars show up at an open house
42:53
or even showings and there was nowhere to park.
42:57
And it's unhealthy for the buyer.
42:59
It's even actually unhealthy for the seller.
43:01
Imagine trying to go through 30 offers and that's what was happening.
43:07
So what what we're getting to, I think, is what I'm on a call like the
43:12
that summer of 69 or something the season of love in real estate.
43:16
We're all going to love each other again and work together
43:19
because there are two sides to every transaction.
43:24
You have a list side, you have a sell side, you've got to partner together.
43:29
Realtors, they're they're there to help
43:33
make home connections where we're like, know
43:36
relationship connections, that that is what we do.
43:41
And and so I'm looking forward to,
43:45
I believe, what will be smooth out of the industry.
43:49
The other thing that is almost behind us is these lawsuits as well.
43:55
So these law suits are pretty much all finalizing
43:59
like we're finalizing knowing what paperwork we have to do.
44:03
And again, a reminder to all that are out there that maybe didn't
44:06
read the Real News on this, the lawsuits were not about commission.
44:13
The lawsuits were actually about transparency around the commission.
44:18
So it had nothing to do with agents overpricing thing,
44:23
nothing of their commission.
44:25
There is no standard commission.
44:28
We typically see a 6% list fee,
44:32
but that is always negotiable, always.
44:36
It has been since the beginning of real estate.
44:40
Everything is always negotiable.
44:43
So what we're going to see with this transparent fee of these buyer
44:48
commissions that are being paid, I think is a very healthy thing.
44:52
I think when consumers can understand a little bit more of how things operate,
44:56
I think that's actually always a good thing for us.
44:59
So we're seeing in all this stuff kind of smooth out.
45:01
We know what we have to do now.
45:04
Things are behind us
45:06
and unemployment
45:07
is still low, that's a really good thing for us too,
45:11
with unemployment still being low.
45:14
So it's good and there's some hot market.
45:16
So before we end, maybe we'll end with that.
45:18
I've got the hot market list of city for the U.S.
45:22
for 2025.
45:23
So we'll be able to see people now would me Yeah, let's do it.
45:31
That's okay. All right.
45:32
So your top ten housing hotspots
45:36
for 2025, if you are in Boston, be excited.
45:40
So that's Boston, Cambridge, Newton,
45:43
Massachusetts, New Hampshire.
45:46
Those areas, they're they're seeing hot stuff.
45:49
And Todd, you're going to love this next one.
45:51
Oh, yes.
45:52
Charlotte, if you are in Charlotte, Concord.
45:56
Gastonia. Well, you know, I love Gastonia,
46:00
North Carolina and South Carolina.
46:02
Guys, you are looking for some hot markets.
46:05
In fact, if you're in the South, that makes up 45% of our sales last year.
46:10
So that's a really incredible number. Okay.
46:14
If you're
46:15
in Grand Rapids, Kentwood, Michigan, congratulations.
46:18
Grand Rapids.
46:20
All right.
46:21
Again, back to South Carolina, the Greenville Anderson area.
46:24
So I believe Greenville just right over.
46:27
Isn't that just right over the border?
46:29
I think I feel like of North Carolina.
46:32
If you're in Hartford, Connecticut, Middletown, Connecticut,
46:37
you're in good shape.
46:39
This next one does not shock me.
46:41
Indianapolis and Carmel Anderson, those areas
46:46
typically always hotbeds anyway, but you're doing good.
46:49
Of course, the Midwest is always kind of insulated from highs and lows.
46:53
Guys.
46:53
Remember that we don't see as much fluctuation.
46:58
Kansas City, Missouri
47:01
and Kansas, congratulations.
47:03
Nashville, Tennessee.
47:08
Phoenix, Mesa, Chandler and Arizona.
47:11
And then, of course, a beautiful city.
47:13
If you haven't, then get there.
47:14
San Antonio and New Braunfels.
47:18
You guys are looking for a nice 2025 and hot spots.
47:23
So again, a lot of this will fluctuate just based of interest rates.
47:29
So for some reason something happens,
47:31
you know, pay attention and remember that this stuff is so local.
47:35
I cannot say that enough.
47:37
We've got to get into your neighborhoods and neighborhood, even
47:41
that you see trends.
47:43
So get with your VIP's, take one to coffee, say, Hey,
47:47
can I pick your brain and understand what's going to happen in our market,
47:50
what you're going to forecast, what you're seeing that they love
47:54
to talk about that stuff anyway, and that'll help make a good connection.
47:59
Todd and Shannon
47:59
let me pick your brain on one last thing is we get ready to wrap up here.
48:03
So with this this first quarter 2025 forecast of up
48:07
a little bit of a bump in inventory and things like that,
48:10
what between the two of you, can you give us, say, three action stops
48:15
that we as real estate media owners should take
48:18
for our business here in the first quarter to get ready for the rest of 2025?
48:22
What are the top three things based on this information, they should act on?
48:26
I'll give one Shannon,
48:28
this is regardless of what the market is, you need to build as many relationships
48:33
with your clients as possible because they see potential in the market.
48:37
So when I took that data in from Shannon, I thought,
48:40
what would our agents thinking right now?
48:43
- So they have confidence - yes, confidence is up
48:47
confidence is up, which means they'll spend money.
48:50
They also understand
48:51
that there's competition, which means they need to be different.
48:55
So I'm building those relationships.
48:57
I'm explaining what
48:58
our products and services do so that I can begin to count on that agent.
49:02
And then they become a raving fan and I get referrals.
49:04
So relationships,
49:05
I know I gave a few more things in there, but we're we're doing that at all.
49:10
We're doing that at Wow.
49:11
Right now we are building relationships like crazy.
49:14
yeah, absolutely.
49:15
You know, I think if you have it. plan some goals
49:20
this year, you get that done by January 31st, right?
49:24
And so get some goals down and then go and research your market
49:29
and see what the listing forecast looks like and set and say to yourself,
49:33
I want to capture 2% of the 3% of this, you know,
49:37
and know that those are good numbers.
49:39
Don't don't think especially I think what Charlotte carries
49:43
80,000 listings a year so I can't remember Wow that's a huge number.
49:48
So if you were going to try to say
49:49
I want 10% of those, that it's probably unattainable.
49:53
I think 8000. I mean, that be awesome.
49:56
Todd's been in
49:57
Charlotte a long time and he doesn't even have that much market share.
50:00
So because it is so big.
50:02
Okay, so just think about that.
50:04
Hey, I know that my city carries 20,000 listings a year.
50:07
I want to make sure I get 500 of those
50:10
because that is, you know, that's a doable number for you.
50:12
So definitely making sure that I would set a task to go understand my market.
50:18
And some of that can be go get in relationship with people
50:21
and understand my market to understand what my opportunity is and then how
50:27
I can go forward and make a plan to reach out to the people.
50:31
Right. Because everything is a map.
50:32
You want 500 listings and you divide that out, Say
50:36
the average agent carries seven listings a year, right?
50:40
I'll say ten for easy math.
50:42
That's 50 agents and you get 50 agents.
50:45
And usually you're probably got to reach out to 100 agents.
50:48
Right. So everything is a math correlation.
50:51
Again, love it or hate it, that is how it is.
50:53
So go ahead and figure out these math equations so that you can go forward
50:59
and be able to hit your goals respectively.
51:02
Yeah, Shannon that sounds like our next webinar with how to do.
51:05
We should take some numbers because the other thing
51:07
that come with comes with a math equation is when your numbers
51:11
number of jobs go over a certain amount, you need to hire
51:15
So we see that a part time photographer does 400 a full time, does 7
51:19
to 800 in general, if your numbers are tipping over
51:23
some of those barriers you need to hire, how do you hire then?
51:27
What does that mean from an admin standpoint?
51:29
And that pushes everything up, which is great.
51:31
You just need to be prepared for it because I've tried it before
51:36
without doing it and I thought, I'm going to do it all myself,
51:38
or I just didn't realize at the time, quite honestly, and working 16 hours
51:43
a day becomes not fun very quickly, even if you are making money.
51:48
Yeah, you learn real quick that way.
51:50
That money is not the end all, be all when you do things like that.
51:54
So you know, and it just all comes down to you guys.
51:57
You got to have a plan and you to have a purpose, right?
52:02
You know, I continue to read books and I suggest everybody
52:06
at least try to read a book a month.
52:07
It can be overwhelming, but read a book a month.
52:09
And and the one I'm kind of so I say give me three months to kind of read it.
52:14
Just because the holidays,
52:16
you know, is How To Live Your Best Life Now, right?
52:19
Like how to how to be your future self now and having hope and purpose
52:27
that that creates everything for you.
52:29
So, you know, without help, we we can't move forward.
52:32
And whether you're spiritual or religious, you know, both of those teach you
52:39
that you know, you have to have a Why and you have to have a purpose.
52:42
So planning and doing all those things is going to help you reach that.
52:46
And remembering that, you know,
52:49
if you're not uncomfortable, you're probably not growing.
52:52
that's a hard one, but it's good.
52:54
It's tough.
52:55
Yeah, we said it on the webinar yesterday.
52:58
We were we were talking about it, you know, and we have is that we have a
53:02
bold stayed here at KW as you know get
53:05
get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
53:07
So sometimes being uncomfortable means you need just someone to talk to.
53:11
You need someone to reach out to.
53:13
Now we are happy to hear from you.
53:17
We love hearing from you.
53:19
In fact, it wasn't phrased very well.
53:21
So you can comment wherever you're watching this from.
53:24
If you're on YouTube, you can comment below.
53:26
It's great there because there's a community in there.
53:28
We also have the Spiro Superuser Group.
53:31
That's a private group.
53:32
Search for it and you'll gain access for that.
53:36
We have great discussions and they're on Facebook and just on Facebook.
53:40
Yes. Thank you.
53:42
On the Facebook
53:43
Make sure that you put
53:46
just Google or put in the search bar Spiro Superuser group
53:51
and then you'll see a request access and we'll get you in there.
53:55
Todd And I'm are a little delayed sometimes I'll get you on that.
53:57
What we'll try to we will make a plan to be better at that in 2025.
54:01
We'll get you in. Yes, yes.
54:04
And then finally, you can always email hello@spiro.media.
54:08
You can say, Hey, Todd. Hey, Shannon. Hey, Craig.
54:11
And many of you are doing that.
54:13
The team in there that goes into our inbox with the customer
54:17
support team is they'll read it if they can help you, right?
54:19
Then if it's a spiro or a question,
54:21
they can get you answers, but we will get to you.
54:23
Just give us a little be patient with us in that inbox.
54:27
You will hear back from us.
54:28
There might be some time that goes.
54:30
If it's urgent, we'll get it to the right person.
54:32
But if it's just a question
54:33
or a thought for the podcast, we always love to hear from you right.
54:37
And speaking of that, if you do have a question
54:39
for the podcast business related that you'd like to see us cover,
54:43
we'd love to hear your ideas because we want to provide content
54:46
that's relevant to you and your business
54:48
and what's going to help you improve your business.
54:49
So again, email us.
54:51
hello@spiro.media.
54:53
Yeah, and you know, I think another great idea is I'd be happy.
54:57
I know a lot of great people in this industry
55:00
and we can even bring them a couple of them on as guests
55:02
and let them talk for sure.
55:04
They would be more than happy to do that.
55:06
I bet I could get our O.P. to probably hop on here
55:10
- and give us some great information too, - it'll be good to have her on.
55:13
Yeah. Yeah, it would be good.
55:14
And again, hearing from many people's perspectives,
55:18
it's always good to then formulate what you want to do.
55:22
Absolutely.
55:24
- Awesome. - Shannon, thank you.
55:25
Thank you for all that data.
55:27
We love it. So helpful to know and
55:32
all of our brains are going to rest now.
55:35
Well, I'm getting prepared for another snowstorm, so I have a foot of
55:39
snow on the ground and I'm getting ready to get five more inches.
55:43
So I'm not sure where we're going to start putting this stuff,
55:46
but my kids are out of school again and happy.
55:48
So there we are.
55:49
And again, my Buckeyes play tonight, so I know this.
55:52
Once this is recorded, that game will be over.
55:55
So I will be praying by the time this podcast comes out.
55:58
We are playing in the national championship, so let's hope. Go Buckeyes
56:05
I know, if you don't like it, I'm sorry.
56:11
And thanks for inviting me on guys, any time I love this and again,
56:14
guys will be doing this at least once a quarter, giving you a market update.
56:18
All right.
56:18
Well, guys, thank you for joining us for this inaugural podcast for 2025.
56:23
So glad that you joined us again, if it's your first time joining us.
56:26
We're so glad to have you on here.
56:29
Make sure you hit the subscribe button
56:30
so you get notifications on the next podcast episode that launches.
56:34
We typically
56:35
try and launch these on Tuesdays just so that that you're aware of that.
56:39
And again, if you have a comment or a topic idea, please
56:42
leave us either a comment on the YouTube channel or you can email us.
56:45
hello@spiro.media.
56:47
And if you've found this beneficial and you want to you've got some friends
56:51
in the industry, we invite you to share it like it, you know, all that good stuff.
56:55
So thank you.
56:56
Thank you. Thank you.
56:57
We just appreciate the opportunity to be able to be a part
57:00
of your business life and speak into your business. So.
57:03
All right.
57:04
That we're going to close things up. We will be back next week.
57:06
We've got another special guest that will be joining us
57:09
and we're excited to hear from him.
57:11
So stay tuned. In the meantime, make sure you take some time.
57:14
It's here at the beginning of the year
57:15
to be thankful for the blessings in your life
57:18
and still take a breath, especially before the spring market heats up.
57:22
Have a great week, guys.
57:23
Thank you for joining us for the Spiro podcast,
57:25
managing your real estate photography and videography business.
57:29
This is a production of Spiro and wow video tours.
57:33
You can find out more about Spiro is real estate, media, business management
57:37
software at our Web site, Spiro.Media.