Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Rosaline with Costume Designer, Mitchell Travers

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Rosaline with Costume Designer, Mitchell Travers · The Art of Costume Podcast

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I don't know why, but in my brain it was a unicorn but it
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never was and so unbeknownst to me.
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I kept calling it The Unicorn ribbon and everyone was like,
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what it, what is he talking about?
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Finally, we connected the dots that there was never a unicorn.
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And so, to fix it, I just asked A little pearls to be
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embroidered as the unicorn horns on top.
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Hello. And welcome to the art of
0:44
costume. Blogcast, I'm Elizabeth Joy
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glass, and thou art Spencer Williams.
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Hello Elizabeth. Hello Spencer.
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Uh, surprised you didn't call yourself a Lord for this one.
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Oh, yeah. Uh-huh.
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That's kind of a missed opportunity.
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You did, you did see, you're not a real lord.
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Only evidence, we are in our first Shakespeare month.
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So this really was my opportunity.
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It was, and you missed it. You missed.
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You have two chances. You missed your first one.
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Oh man. Elizabeth are excited for
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Shakespeare month. We all know you have beef with
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William Shakespeare. I am.
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So, like thing is I really only hate Romeo and Juliet.
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Otherwise, I'm cool with Shakespeare like love
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Shakespeare. Okay.
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I'm sure he's glad to hear that. Yeah, I know.
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It's after how many hundreds of years, my opinion is what
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matters to him in the afterlife. So glad we straightened that out
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Elizabeth. I have a I have a serious update
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for you. Okay, I thought these are done
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but I have a small popcorn update.
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Okay, I want to know, I want to know, did I finally got a small
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popcorn i-it's just happen magically, you know, for the
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people behind the scenes, who are listening to this, I have
2:06
been ruthlessly been trying to get down from the large
2:10
12-gallon full of popcorn at the movies down to a small but I've
2:14
always been too scared to ask for it because it's definitely
2:17
ask. But the other day, I don't know
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how it happened but I guess like, I had a headache.
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I was in sweats. I look like a zombie and I am, I
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guess II. Don't know how it happened but
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I, for some reason said it and he was like, oh well, you could
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just get the combo meal, if you're a member and I was like,
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oh, I am a member, it's like, oh, okay, well, here's the small
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popcorn and it was that easy and I almost passed out.
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Yeah, I told you, I told you. It was not that hard.
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So did me a year? Later, I have finally got a
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small popcorn at the movies and guess what?
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I still didn't finish it. I told you see, see our American
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consumerism is it's pointless, you're not, you're not, you're
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not what saving money by getting the large because you're never
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going to finish it. Yeah.
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And then I watch Babylon. So you would think they would
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have nervously ate all that popcorn but anyways enough about
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me let's get into Shakespeare month.
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Elizabeth what are we watching this week?
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Yes, this Week, we watch Roslin. I was so excited for this movie
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because it's everything, Romeo and Juliet should be, but it's
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not finally a movie that I was like, when I watch those liked
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it, Elizabeth write this movie, because this is how she talks
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about the movie all the time as a cautionary tale.
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And at the end of the day, in spoiler warnings, once they're
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in that boat, they can see they're not right for each
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other. He's too stupid for her.
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It was funny. I was laughing.
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Pretty hard. I was like I could not wait to
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talk about this and the costumes were so good.
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I felt like I was just, there should be a museum for all these
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costumes every single one I was like, okay, okay.
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Just I wrote so many notes are historically accurate while
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still being like fresh and fun. I like they feel very youthful.
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So it was just like so perfect and we should really just dive
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into this Spencer start with that summer.
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Hurry. Okay so Roslin is a
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forward-thinking ambitious, young lady from the house of
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Capulet. She has been secretly seeing
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Romeo, a member of the capulets rivals to Montague's and
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Promises to meet him at the Capulet masquerade ball.
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But things don't exactly work out this comedic retelling of
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Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet told from the point of view of
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Romeo's, jilted ex Rosalind the women Romeo first claims to love
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before he falls for Juliet, and that is Rosslyn.
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That is Rosalyn. Let's go behind the Wardrobe.
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We have director Karen made and designer Mitchell Travers.
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Hey you all know him from eighth grade late night hustlers in the
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Heights, the eyes of Tammy Faye. Which we have done an episode
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on. Yeah.
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And also George and Tammy which Spencer you did an interview
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for. Yeah, I finally got to meet
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Mitchell. I don't know like a month ago
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now and I'm still listening to George and Tammy.
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Music is so bad. I'm sure my neighbors are ready
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to come over and murder me. That's a good show.
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I've told every single person I know about the show, that's one
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thing I have to get on, but let's continue to go behind the
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Wardrobe and we couldn't think of a better way to go behind the
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Wardrobe. Then to have Mitchell on the
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show. Well, welcome.
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Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh.
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We're so excited. I feel like I just left.
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I'm back again. You know, actually when I think
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when I talk to him, it's all the first time I was like, oh, by
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the way, Shakespeare month is coming up and we've already
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assumed that you're going to do this episode with us.
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So thank God. He said yes.
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Yeah, I love you guys and I love your show.
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So I'm happy to be here. Truly, you know what?
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Well, we're actually going to take a quick little break.
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And when we come back, we're going to get right into it.
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This is my favorite music when it comes in, right here.
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All right, let's get into Ross. When this honestly, one of my
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favorite movies was 2022, obviously it's take on Romeo and
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Juliet takes place in Verona during the Italian Renaissance
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with this being like one of your first like, major period films.
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I imagine you had to do a lot of research, which must have been
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exciting. It was an enormous amount of
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research, you know, I didn't come come into this with some
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wealth of 15th Cherie knowledge of costume outside of, you know
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what? I studied in school.
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So it was, it was an enormous undertaking and a huge challenge
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to have to go and look at, you know, paintings as reference
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writing well. So, so many of us are used to
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doing mood boards with like, you know, fashion imagery and or,
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you know, vintage photos of magazines and that sort of stuff
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for our work. So, to actually, you know, have
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to go to the Met Look at what I was about to do it.
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Really shifted me into a very new way of working and thinking
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and designing. So I definitely had that that
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first day where I was like, oh, whoa, whoa, this is like a whole
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new. This is a whole new level.
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All right? We're not doing Hustlers
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anymore. Ladies and gentlemen, it was
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great. I mean, it was really exciting
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to to sort of like, shifts the way I think.
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And Dream about costumes and use some of the most inspiring work.
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I mean, it's hanging in the, most famous museums across our
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planet, right? So it's, it was hugely inspiring
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to start with paintings. Oh, I love that.
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I'm a actually, I love the Italian Renaissance.
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I'm a big Renaissance nerd. I think that's, I remember
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learning a lot about that in school too.
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So it was really cool to see it kind of be translated into a
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film. Like this one thing that stood
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out to me, was how beautiful the textiles were, everything felt
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very rich and Then tick. I mean the textiles felt like
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they came out of a Renaissance painting to me.
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What was it like working for all these textiles?
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Honestly, it was a complete real to get to see how they're made.
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You know, we shot this in Italy. So I was in in the right place
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at the right time. You know, I found the biggest
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challenge, of course, like you look at the you look at the
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research and you see the scale of the print on.
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A burke and it's so difficult to find that scale now because, you
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know, we're not making clothes with with print the size of our
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bodies, right? That's like not really something
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that we do. And so then your you have to
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sort of lean on like are you going to go down that upholstery
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route? Because so many period costumes
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look like Upholstery and that's I think a lot of times in a
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vacuum people think that we have all the time in the world to
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create these costumes but in fact it is very fast-paced.
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Your you're having to Is a large volume of clothing, you know, in
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a matter of a few weeks. So getting something milled or
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getting something printed, there's often not that much
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time. So you have to be very clever
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about what you're using and how you're going to use it
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especially in a piece like this. So I immediately got to work.
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I started my research just about where I could still get
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textiles. There's the insane part of
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working in Italy is that there are looms that have been
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producing the same textile for hundreds and Hundreds of years,
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they're still operational and they're still manufactured in
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the same way. So I did discover a few meals
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that would produce, you know, exactly what I needed was a huge
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win and then just being in Italy, there is a bit more of
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that feeling into some of the fabric.
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So I was in Venice one time on the weekend and I know how this
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sounds, yes, I do. I was in Venice in the weekend.
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That's why this small shop and in the back of the Stop and I
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feel like costume designers have a knack for this.
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Like we almost have like a nose. Like we don't know what we're
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looking for, but we just get these instincts to go into these
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little places and I went in and it was mostly like, you know,
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curtains and laces and things for home decoration.
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And then I got in the back, and there was like, all of us fabric
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rolled up and stored vertical. I could tell that like what I
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was looking at was the scale of what I wanted and so I, you
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know, in My very, very poor Italian was trying to talk to
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the man about weapon and he started to honor all these bolts
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and they were truly like, from my research, it was perfect,
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they were mad at, well, silks and brocades and just some of
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the most extraordinary textiles and I ended up getting so much
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fabric there. I had no way to get it home
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because I was living in Rome for this project.
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So just a little place, I have a room and so I have you know like
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Few hundred pounds of fabric in Venice and trying to talk to my
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Italian crew, like, okay, went for it.
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I went quickly. It's like all of these bolts
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that we need to figure out getting back up to the shop this
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week, but it was pretty fantastic.
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I mean, there's my friend Massimo not.
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Now my friend Massimo has some of the most extraordinary
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Fabrics in Italy. I mean, we could never afford
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some of the things that he's able to produce but on On the
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more film friendly side of things, he did have these
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brilliant textiles like this Roslin dress, that we're looking
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at his bottom. It was this, I saw a little
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sample of it and I it just lived in my head for a few weeks and
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eventually I was like, bite the bullet, make the dress, let's
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go. All right.
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Yeah, it's gorgeous. So like part of textile then
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you're saying is had to do if like the the scale of the prints
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we were looking at interesting, so gorgeous and Well else is
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gorgeous. I know Mitchell.
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You probably know from listening to the podcast, but Elizabeth
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and I love a ball. So this was no exception.
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The Capulet ball was interesting and it was monochromatic, but
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the got the costume, still felt unique throughout the ball.
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So, take us back to the ball in your ideas behind it.
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Well, I feel like I like you. I really love a costume ball in
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a movie. I love them.
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And I just felt like A version of it that I hadn't really seen
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yet was color specific, right? Like I feel like Mom, then the
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palette is really worked out by the designer, with beautiful
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balance between Hughes, and I felt like our movie called for
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something different and fresh and unexpected because because
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of its scripts, right? It's um, it's a, it's a
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different. Look at a story.
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We feel like we know quite well and it's that Romeo meets Juliet
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moment. But, of course, we're on a
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different side of, we're on a different team for this.
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Version of it. I wanted this idea that it was
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like, you know, you could get caught up, you could lose
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yourself, you could lose somebody else or, you know, you
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could see somebody across the room and not be able to get back
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to them at that same ball. And so, I want to just this like
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swirling sea of red. It's like passion and love and
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it's almost blush. So many great things that you
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get from the feeling red, can give you on camera.
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So, you know, I do think my Italian crew Who wanted to
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murder me? When I said we could only use
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red, right? Because 100 extra costume.
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You're like, how do you say murder in Italian?
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I mean, they were great sports, right?
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Like they would go to the ends of the Earth to try to get what
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we wanted on camera. And their did most fantastic,
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fantastic crews in Italy. So we just we started working
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with a ton of rental houses throughout Europe.
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You'd be surprised. But there's not a ton of Movies
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made in this period. So the stock is limited, right?
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It's not the rows and rows and rows of garments.
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So we were we had people pulling for us in London, I went to
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Spain, we have all of the you know, fantastic and extremely
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historical costume houses. They are in Italy so we just
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pulled as much as we could from all over the world and we got a
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few hundred extras in red head to toe.
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And I have to admit to you. It was one of Those things where
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I was like, at some point, we're going to have to pull in another
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color right there. Just won't be enough right
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enough time, not enough red fabric in the world.
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Yeah, and I had Paris costumes in Spain.
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They built a ton for us for this as well, but we got it.
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It was pretty much red head to toe.
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I couldn't believe it was like by the skin of our teeth, but we
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were, we were able to make it happen and it felt it felt like
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what I wanted because we were there on set and you had all of
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this, you know? Fabric surrounded.
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You all in red with different adornments and Silhouettes and
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you kind of did lose people in it, like, it was kind of hard to
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find somebody. Again, once you had done last
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looks on them, which was exactly the point, right?
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But that feeling of Romeo meets Juliet and then they can't see,
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they can't find each other again, right?
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It gets that. It's like what we always talk
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about, I mean, the costume design was eight, I mean, really
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driving the storytelling at this moment, which is pretty awesome.
16:19
Another awesome character I fell in love with Ron As Lon she was
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so incredible and she's really going through it.
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Dealing with the absurdity that is Romeo and Juliet.
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But even despite the, these boy problem she is having, she is
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looking fabulous all the time. Could you talk about the, like
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overall story behind roslin's looks and your collaboration
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with the actress? Kaitland, Caitlin is
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extraordinary. She's so, Cool.
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She brings such a great light to so many rooms that she's in.
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And we had a really great first meeting where we talked about
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this character and what she wanted to bring to it.
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What I wanted to bring to it. And we both felt pretty
17:06
similarly, that what we're doing is a movie about like the
17:10
friend, right? This is the friend character.
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But in our movie, she is our protagonist.
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And so, in the way that in movies like this, you know,
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they're leading. Lady is like, you know, light
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and blond and blues, and Periwinkles, and soft.
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And that's what we're used to with Juliette, you know, year
17:33
like we need the opposite. It's the best friend character.
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So we need like density and weight and red hair and velvets
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and things that feel like for costume design, you know, things
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that we put on those. Secondary characters are now our
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Focus. So, we wanted this kind of
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Outsider energy, On our leading lady and I became obsessed with
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what I called, like, Botticelli blond, which is the sixth
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inning. We know what you're saying.
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Yeah, yeah. And I just became obsessed with
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that as my palette. So it was like, I was looking at
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iron and rust and salmon and coral.
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And these like these tertiary colors that we often reserved
18:15
for that secondary character, we became my palette for our lead.
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Which was really fun. There was sort of like almost if
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you were to do a contemporary film and you wanted to do like a
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Twist on menswear for a character, I try to do the same
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thing just in the 15th century, looking at some of those harder
18:35
shapes to put on our leading lady and I had a really fun time
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putting it together. Yeah, I love that because she
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really is even within the story. She is, you know, a woman that
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does not subscribe to the norm. So I love that.
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One specific detail. I really loved was the dragonfly
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detail on the dress. She's meant to wear to the
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capital of ball. And I read that there's a little
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bit of symbolism behind this. So, the, it's like the most
19:06
romantic thing in the world that there are a ton of dragonflies
19:09
in Italy in the summer when we were there.
19:12
And so I kept seeing them all the time and that, you know,
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there's such magical things, when you see them, right?
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Like you're captivated them and in a conversation, Kaitlyn.
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And I started talking about Dragonflies because we were
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seeing them as we were at some of these locations and then I
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became obsessed with the idea and I started seeing it's one of
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those things. Like once it's something that
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you notice, you see it everywhere.
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So I started to find imagery of dragonflies in the paintings
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that I was looking at, I found it in stained glass, I found it
19:42
in so many places. And I started to realize like
19:44
something's going on with dragonflies, I need to go down
19:47
the rabbit hole and so I found is that actually in, you know,
19:51
we were running Flee like 1460, give or take.
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But I found that there was, you know, like all periods in
19:57
history. There are Trends.
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And in 1460, there was a trend of dragonflies as symbolism, it
20:05
made its way into, like I said stained glass, it made its way
20:08
onto Cutlery jewelry. This imagery of dragonflies came
20:13
up and it became sort of a symbol of finding your way and
20:16
being on the right path. And so we just felt like this is
20:19
perfect for Rosalyn, right? Like she is Finding her way.
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He is on the right path. She's she thinks she's headed
20:25
towards one goal. But in fact, like, who she's
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surrounded by spoiler alert is exactly where she's meant to be
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and it's part of being on the right course.
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So once that was locked in, I was like we're doing a dragonfly
20:38
dress, we have to. So I went to a metal worker and
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we found these dragonflies that we created to run down the front
20:47
of this dress and it just it was like sort of for me and Kaitlyn.
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Was our little bit of the combination of all of our little
20:55
chats about these dragonflies and the history and the dresses.
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And so just felt like felt like the right thing to put on her.
21:02
When she's with Dario that's gorgeous.
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I love this. I, this is why we love costume
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designing a little details like that.
21:08
That, you know, maybe not everyone will notice, but
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there's so much thought behind it.
21:12
It's incredible. It really opened my eyes though,
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to Trends throughout time because, you know, I think so
21:16
many times where we look at periods of history that we can't
21:19
necessarily relate to, they feel Static and still, but we've
21:24
always been dressing ourselves, the same way.
21:26
Ultimately like, shapes come and go and layers, come and go.
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But we've, we've had color come in and out in Trends.
21:33
We've had jewelry Styles come in and out in friends, Prince
21:37
solids. And so it really humanized, a
21:40
lot of the faces that I was looking at where I realized,
21:42
like, oh, you were just getting dressed in the same way that I
21:44
am right. You had a lot fewer clothes, but
21:47
they were much more beautiful. But, you know, I joked about
21:51
this, In my post about this. But it was like, you know, the
21:54
owl necklace of the 2010. Yeah, this is, yeah, right.
21:58
It's a young girl following the trends of her time and trying to
22:03
trying to fit in trying to express herself, trying to have
22:05
some individuality. It's very relatable to the way
22:08
that we still dress ourselves today through my mind is blown.
22:14
I love that. Wow.
22:18
Well also with Rozlyn, she's like a little more Esta cated.
22:23
And when you put her next to Juliet, she definitely looks a
22:27
little more sophisticated because Julia definitely has
22:30
like a pureness of vulnerability to her a little bit.
22:36
Were you establishing a contrast between the two certainly?
22:40
I think it was really important that Juliet felt younger than
22:43
Roslin. You know, Rosalind thinks of
22:45
herself as a woman of the world whereas Juliet is sort of just
22:49
coming into her own and discovering the world and And
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her place in it. And so we wanted this little
22:55
sister energy from Juliet at Rosslyn takes under her Wing.
22:59
I got hugely inspired by etched glass.
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There's a lot of beautiful pictures and vases and, and
23:06
goblets that still exists from the period.
23:10
And I just got really inspired by that transparency and the
23:14
lightness and the just the fragility of the pieces.
23:20
I was looking at, and I just tried to interpret that.
23:21
That through clothing for her. There was a connection I
23:25
couldn't. Yeah.
23:27
One scene IX, especially liked that contrast was the bar scene
23:32
because especially Juliet has like I think it's like a unicorn
23:37
embroidered on her top and it's just very flowery and then
23:40
Roslin is like deep colors, has this beautiful like jeweled
23:44
headpiece. I was like that is like a
23:46
beautiful contrast between these two You got it perfectly.
23:51
It's exactly what we wanted. I sort of did the bars, like our
23:55
biker bars. There was a ton of Levin.
23:58
It's like crude male sweaty energy.
24:03
I used to joke, but I was like, you know, what they say about
24:05
showering? You know, like I think this
24:08
place would wreak it should be like kind of here to have this
24:12
like little doe-eyed, unicorn wearing his bar, it's like It's
24:20
we want, we want that shock to her system, and she's learning
24:23
about the world, she's learning about men.
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And then the, the Unicorn tram is actually quite funny because
24:29
I, it's a piece of vintage ribbon that I found at my
24:33
favorite vintage ribbon dealer. There's not many, but she is my
24:36
favorite in New York and it was something I bought like early on
24:41
in the thing. I this is sort of the way I
24:42
costume. I like gather stuff.
24:44
I don't know exactly where I'm going to put it, but I know it
24:47
has the right feeling for me. And I don't know why, but in my
24:51
brain it was a unicorn but it never was and so unbeknownst to
24:58
me. I kept calling it The Unicorn
24:59
ribbon, and everyone was like, what it, what is he talking
25:02
about? Finally, we connected the dots
25:05
that there was never a unicorn. And so, to fix it, I just asked
25:08
for a little pearls to be embroidered as the unicorn horns
25:11
on top. That's my memory a little bit
25:16
there, but yes, he became known. In our costume shop is the
25:20
unicorn dress, that was ultimately never a unicorn, but
25:23
we made sure to correct that I have, I actually didn't even
25:27
notice the Unicorn. So now I feel like, I, we need a
25:30
pause, and I need to go turn the movie back on, but we'll keep
25:33
going. I'll do that later.
25:35
I feel really jealous right now. What I did notice though, Paris
25:43
is really serving. Some looks, every time we saw
25:45
him, perhaps my favorite has to be this very subtle.
25:49
Stated costume with the lion over his shoulder Mitchell.
25:53
How did this happen? I'm obsessed with this.
25:56
I think, you know, I love subtlety.
26:00
I had this character Paris with, you know, the gay bestie.
26:05
And I was just trying to find ways ultimately to My Lens.
26:10
Into this this whole movie was how do you tell like a young
26:14
adult story? If you were going to, I know, I
26:17
know what I would do with contemporary costumes.
26:19
I tried to take those instincts and filter them through all of
26:22
this research that I had done about 15 Century Italian
26:27
costuming. And so, in the ways that we
26:29
would do a fur collar or, you know, extraordinary
26:33
embellishments or prints and things like that, I felt like
26:35
Paris would be dressing himself, the same way that, you know, the
26:40
gay bestie would today. So I thought what are the
26:43
extremes and what what are the fashion-forward things that we
26:46
can put for this character? That we understand.
26:49
He is a As a man trying to express himself in ways that
26:52
other men of this time aren't. And so, one of my first stops at
26:56
the Met, I found this lion helmet, okay?
27:00
It was from here and it was just like such a bizarre little item
27:05
that I, you know, I kept in my my camera roll on my phone for a
27:08
while and then I got to go to Italy and I'm in all the
27:11
different museums and I found this painting that had lion
27:15
shoulder pieces on this armor and then I started to Swirl on
27:19
that for a little while. And then I in some of my
27:22
research I found that exotic pelts used to be worn like they
27:25
were they were much more worn in terms of ceremony or battle or
27:30
quite. Honestly, from what we can tell,
27:32
mostly worn for paintings. But right, know if there's if
27:35
there's a man posing for a painting with a lion that
27:38
definitely speaks to the Paris that I'm trying to create.
27:41
So I worked with them, an artist called Eastern, wind Studio, who
27:46
produces these faux replicas of Of different animals.
27:50
And so I knew I wanted a lion. We imagined that Paris is a Leo,
27:56
right? It would just make sense, so
27:59
came up with this huge lion shoulder Mount that we talked on
28:03
top and served sort of as like a, you know, a shoulder pad
28:10
piece. Some showed or embellishment.
28:16
I love it. I'm obsessed with this.
28:18
You should probably wear something like this.
28:19
This to perhaps a costume Awards this year.
28:22
I think that would really turn heads like Lion Mount.
28:25
Yeah, so here now I often don't exist in the real world.
28:29
When I come, I just get lost in the design of it all and I
28:32
sometimes lose myself in the practicalities of all of this.
28:35
So at one point, my assistant Mitchell wolf came up to me and
28:40
is like, how are we getting this in the country?
28:42
Because it was, of course, being built in the US.
28:45
Oh, right. So we had to import a fake.
28:48
I mean, it's looks real. It looks like a real life.
28:51
It's all fake materials, you know.
28:54
I think that the hair is, you know, like from a beauty salon
28:59
but it's done. Beautiful, it's died.
29:00
And it's meant to look real so much.
29:03
So that if you touch it, like a most of our crew did think it
29:07
was real. At one point we had to kind of
29:08
explain that this is like, you know, shaved polar fleece and
29:12
and right human hair. Maine.
29:14
I have to say I wasn't 100% either.
29:17
I was like, I'm pretty sure it's fell but I guess beautiful work
29:21
but then we got into this nightmare of importing, a lion
29:23
head through customs in Italy. Trying to convince everybody
29:27
that it's not real. Of course, Disney is famous for
29:30
its no animal products on camera policy.
29:33
So we had we had to prove to them with the artist that none
29:38
of this was real. They were slightly concerned
29:40
that it could be perceived as real and you know it was a whole
29:43
big Swirl of a conversation. But as you can see, we landed
29:48
the look sleepless nights about it.
29:52
It got the gun right on time, amazing.
29:56
I imagine it going through, like, the X-ray at customs and
29:58
like, um, what is that? Yeah, only some flags raised
30:03
across the border. I believe, right?
30:07
I love that. I also, I love a good hat and
30:11
this movie was full of fantastic hats.
30:16
The hats were just over the top and I loved it.
30:19
Where these built for the film? Like did you have a workshop or
30:23
where most of them rentals? Well, thank you for
30:27
acknowledging hats. I don't know any of your other
30:30
guests have had this conversation with you but for
30:32
costume designers to get a hat on camera is like an act of
30:36
Congress cut them, the producers want to cut them, people are so
30:43
unfamiliar with wearing hats and seeing hats that it's, it's very
30:47
hard to get them on camera even though all of the research would
30:50
show you hats, you know, it was a pretty legendary battle that
30:55
we had because you I'm up. I'm trying to do my job and be
30:59
period-correct in an environment of people who don't necessarily
31:04
want that. Right?
31:05
And so my costume, my costumes soul is like but they wear hats.
31:10
You know, we would be in these locations with these incredible
31:13
mosaics and frescoes on the wall and I would say to our team are
31:16
producing team. Like, look at the research.
31:18
It's on the walls. Everyone here is wearing a hat,
31:21
right? So a modern I has 10 be
31:24
distracting especially of this period because they They were so
31:27
over the top. Yeah so it was a total total
31:31
mad. All the director and I were
31:33
really all about the hats and we had to fight those those voices
31:36
who didn't want them necessarily.
31:38
So Elizabeth, thank you, I appreciate it but you know it's
31:46
it gave me a lot of perspective when I have looked at other
31:49
costume designers work and been like well that's not period and
31:52
you realize like well there's a lot of voices that go into those
31:56
conversations. And so if a costume designer can
31:58
get close to period it's a victory.
32:03
I love it. Honestly, you're saying this and
32:05
I'm like cause I've watched a couple of like those Renaissance
32:08
like Netflix shows. I really don't like wait, there
32:11
were no hats like or there were very few and I'm like oh that's
32:15
why. I mean the other battle we had
32:17
was so you know it's for most of human history people have worn
32:23
layers of clothing, right. We're now in a period where
32:25
we're not super layered. In the same way.
32:27
But in this period women were would be wearing akimichi, which
32:31
is like a shimmies basically under all of their dresses.
32:35
And so often when you watch a modern take on a period show,
32:39
the chemise is the first thing that gets caught because it's
32:41
not understood by a modern audience.
32:43
But for people who are paying attention and understand
32:45
costumes, like they would never, you would never just throw
32:48
address on top of the Bearskin. It's very modern idea, but it's
32:52
often done in these modern takes on period films.
32:54
So, Battle of the It was a whole other thing and I had to poop
32:59
home. Need you need to come eat your
33:01
underneath so that you can get those puff sleeves like the /
33:05
like you know, the shoulders and elbows and at this neckline it's
33:08
like it's for me, it's one of the most romantic Parts about
33:11
the period and you have to you have to have it in order to sell
33:14
the look. You know.
33:15
Again it's one of these details that doesn't really work to a
33:18
modern high so it needs quite a bit of thing to get it towards
33:21
camera. That's fast.
33:23
I never would have thought. That's like an issue.
33:26
Right, I'm so happy. You won this battle because I
33:30
the hats really made the movie. I mean I just can't imagine it
33:33
without the Hat server so good. I feel like we should bring
33:36
these type of hats back. Actually if we're talking about
33:39
it or especially I think it was your Romeo's mom or Juliet's.
33:45
Mom had a head. Like I look like a taco.
33:48
I thought that was really wonderful answer Elizabeth
33:53
question we did. We had three and house Mill
33:55
owners who were You know, more talented than the next and so it
33:59
was fantastic. I would bring them Fabric and
34:01
feathers and Felts and we would block out hats and trims and it
34:04
was like, you know, lovely to be to be them and experience the
34:09
craft that they have. You know, it is a dying craft,
34:12
right? The world is not full of
34:13
milliner's, as it was was so work with people who are spend
34:17
their lives, making hats as like a real.
34:20
It's a gift. I love that.
34:22
Like, one of the first times I realized like, oh, I'm going to
34:24
like this movie was when she's Walking with her dad in that
34:27
pink dress and he has the Hat in his hands, but I had no idea
34:30
what it was at first. I was like, what is in his hands
34:34
and then she puts it on, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's
34:37
fabulous. This is gonna be good, it's all
34:43
you did the thing. I basically jumped off the
34:47
couch, when I realized I was looking at mini driver, in this
34:51
film playing nurse Janet she looked incredible even if she
34:55
was in a more traditional Look, she actually spoke about her
34:58
role in the film. I just want to read that quote
35:00
for Elizabeth and Mitchell. She said her character is much
35:03
more engaging than the traditional nurse role in Romeo
35:06
and Juliet. It was the worst part at drama
35:09
school and nobody ever wanted to be the nurse because it was like
35:11
the boring old person. But now in this she's obviously
35:14
youthful and vigorous and extremely funny as thrilled to
35:18
be a part of this whole thing with all these lovely people
35:20
because they're all good, Souls draw a lovely good humans.
35:23
And that's what's most important and that was from a website.
35:26
I called as the bunny hops Mitchell.
35:29
What was it? Like working for Minnie Driver.
35:31
A career-high for sure, you know, right.
35:36
And the cool thing is, like, she is an actress who loves
35:39
costumes. Oh yeah, we just did fam of the
35:42
Opera, a few months ago. So and I got to talk to her
35:45
about that. I mean, that costume is like one
35:47
of the best of all time, but God, but it was great.
35:50
She had just been should just come from working with El Mirage
35:53
Nick. And so, you know, she was like
35:56
hi. I on costumes of course after
35:58
Epling and it was really fun because she she loves all the
36:03
details like we do she you know she wants to get it on and live
36:06
in it a little bit and talk about you know for the nurse
36:08
character we got into the break down a little bit it wasn't it
36:11
this perfectly Polished costume and so we got into the breakdown
36:14
together, she wanted to understand like how we were
36:17
going to tie the fabric on top of the head and and the smocking
36:21
on the apron and how it would be worn.
36:22
And she, she loves to know all of the history of what She's in
36:27
so that she can inhabit it best. And I just find that.
36:29
That's such a wonderful relationship to have with an
36:32
actor who wants to to wants to acknowledge the work that's gone
36:36
into their costume and understands the references that
36:38
you're pulling from so that she can she can inhabit it a bit
36:42
better. So it was, it was a real joy to
36:44
work with her. Yeah.
36:45
I I mean I can't imagine she did amazing and it's just so good to
36:49
see her. We need more Minnie Driver
36:51
roles. Honestly, I just obsessed with
36:53
her. All right.
36:56
Elizabeth. I will text her, but she's three
36:58
hours ahead and like he didn't tell him any driver was in this.
37:01
As I was watching it. Let's take a second and talk
37:07
about Romeo and Dario. They both certainly have unique,
37:11
Styles and Silhouettes Romeo's. Feels a bit more like guarded
37:17
and Dario's much more inviting. What was your idea behind the
37:21
two characters? It was really fun because in the
37:24
same way that we had this relation or the Difference
37:26
between Rosslyn and Juliet. Its Echoes itself.
37:30
A bit in the relationships between Dario and Romeo.
37:34
So the girls were all chasing Romeo.
37:37
And so we wanted that sort of like peacock, right?
37:41
Someone who's like really into fashion and accessorizes
37:45
himself. I did lose my battle of a Pearl
37:48
Earring on Romeo, I want to download because men were
37:55
wearing earrings at the time. To to just give a modern
37:59
audience, something that they could relate to in the same way
38:01
that we look at the carat hair and the little earring right
38:04
now. I wanted the same to be true of
38:06
our Romeo but it was all about using elements of masculine
38:11
dress but taking them to their extreme.
38:14
So the boots became thigh-highs, the, the cape's became trains.
38:18
And so it was an exaggeration of elements that are that existed
38:22
in, in paintings, but just taking it to the The point of
38:27
extremes and frivolity whereas Dario is much more rugged.
38:32
It's about like leather and studs and simplicity, honestly
38:36
in the against the the other costumes in the film, it sort of
38:41
takes a lesser tone, the quiet tone, which I think is part of
38:44
the draw for Rosalyn, like he is the one who gets overlooked and
38:48
then you realize he's been the sturdy practical companion that
38:52
she's been looking for for the whole film.
38:54
Well, I love Total sidebar. But did anyone on sent mentioned
39:00
that Romeo was giving kind of Heath Ledger Vibes throughout
39:03
this the second we had the wig we were like oh my God, this is
39:07
he right? Okay, I'm not crazy.
39:11
The whole time I mean Kyle acknowledges that comparison to
39:15
just the facial structure, they look like each other.
39:19
All right, let me he did a fantastic job as Romeo but the
39:23
the comparison is there for sure.
39:26
Yes. And specifically, right?
39:30
It took it was beautiful. Actually I think Romeo's you
39:35
know the costume we see a lot of the images coming from.
39:37
I love that like black strong shoulder moment.
39:40
That's one of my favorite costumes.
39:43
All built, we made it all. Okay, so Mitchell.
39:48
This was a beautiful film and brought so much joy and comfort
39:52
even Elizabeth enjoyed it. And she notoriously has beef
39:55
with William Shakespeare. So, Clearly something right
39:57
happened here but this project just came off to me as a dream
40:01
project. I mean you're shooting in Italy.
40:03
It's all gorgeous. You're doing all this
40:05
inspiration. What did this experience mean to
40:07
you? Personally professionally you
40:10
know, looking back on it. All it was a real pinch, me job.
40:14
I mean I got to work with my favorite part of my job is the
40:18
people always. Like, I love a good script but I
40:20
love a good crew and I love a good cast just as much.
40:23
So I am always humbled when I get to work with people who have
40:28
devoted their lives to craftsmanship.
40:30
So Weaver's milliner's, stitchers, Draper's Taylor's.
40:34
Like those are my people and I love to work with them.
40:37
And so to get to to run a costume shop in Rome at one of
40:43
the most beautiful times of the year and and be able to, you
40:47
know, go to Venice for The Masks, right?
40:50
We're doing a masked ball, just just hop down to Venice and get
40:54
some asks taken care of. It's So a real pinch me moment
40:57
where you you recognize the opportunities that this career
41:01
path can provide you. You know, it asks a lot of you,
41:05
you really have to devote most of your waking hours to the
41:08
project whenever you're working on it.
41:10
But if you do it, right, and you like the people that you work
41:13
with, it can really be so, so rewarding.
41:17
So it was very hard to say no to a project that's going to let
41:21
you do period costume for a period.
41:24
That's not often done on film. There's not A ton of movies that
41:27
you can look to for this, this period.
41:30
So, to be able to do that, to be able to work with the people.
41:34
I got to work with. It was just like a real, how did
41:37
I get here moment? Yeah, I mean, we love the
41:40
congratulations. Mitch oldest was such a joy.
41:44
Yeah, I'm trying to think of another Italian Renaissance film
41:46
and nothing's coming to mind. I mean this I guess this is our
41:49
favorite. It's also hard for it not to
41:54
have to be careful that it doesn't just become like a
41:56
wrench. Are right.
41:58
There's that smile. So true, a lot of bad Ren Faire.
42:01
Costumes out there to be able to discern the difference.
42:04
Between what's based in reality, what's based on fantasy, there's
42:08
a lot of crossover between the Renaissance and fantasy costume.
42:11
So keeping things on the side of History versus, you know, design
42:17
is a hard line to find, right? Well, thank you so much for
42:21
joining us Mitchell, but we're not done quite yet.
42:24
Would you like to play a little A game with us.
42:27
Absolutely, if the track Daniel the one costume to rule them
42:34
all. My look actually changed over
42:42
the span of this interview originally, it was paris's look
42:46
with the black hat and the long feathers just because I want
42:50
that hat so bad and it has like the awesome necklace and the fur
42:55
detail. But I know this was kind of a
42:57
shock, he tours for me, but I went to the dragonfly dress just
43:00
because I just fell in love with the story.
43:02
It's not something, I'm not a romantic person.
43:05
I would never go for something red or with be.
43:08
No butterflies, or Dragonflies know, I put a little bit.
43:11
The, you know, that's so not my choice.
43:13
But I found love the symbolism of it and I love the research.
43:18
I went to it in a storytelling and, you know, Trend forecasting
43:21
in the 1400s. I mean, most people think Trend
43:24
forecasting starts in 1920, so it's kind of my mind was blown
43:28
so Mitchell. I changed my look, I'll take, I
43:33
love that. I also love a surprise just like
43:38
crazy. A costume that doesn't have like
43:42
too much screen time, but looks fabulous.
43:45
So I went with paris's lion, head shoulder piece look just
43:51
because I love the work that went behind it and just like,
43:56
it's such a gorgeous piece, but he's also just kind of like, in
43:58
the background. He's like, yes I'm here.
44:01
I look great but better than all of you.
44:03
So I'm just going to go around with my shoulder piece that is
44:07
far too big but looks incredible says, My one costume to roll
44:10
them. All right.
44:11
Was that the night that he was announcing his wedding to or his
44:15
marriage engagement? Yeah, right.
44:16
And he's trying to be like it's not a big deal but yeah, he's
44:19
taking advantage of this moment for a wedding.
44:21
He doesn't care about I think if Paris knows there's a spotlight
44:26
on a moment he's going to occupy that Spotlight for absolutely.
44:31
All right Mitchell, what is your one costume to rule them all?
44:35
Okay, my one costume to rule them all would be The Pearl
44:40
dress, that Roslyn, where's for her battle sequence, 0 built
44:45
for, I think three or four of them in the end and it was a
44:51
real like Testament to our team because the Fabrics came from
44:55
Spain. The pearls came from New York,
44:57
it was built in Spain and Rome, and it was just like everybody
45:03
firing on all cylinders to get this dress done on time with the
45:07
multiples and Was just one of those things like, it was really
45:12
down to the wire. I mean, people were sewing the
45:15
morning that it was working and it was just really gratifying to
45:19
know that you can pull off what seems impossible.
45:22
And it was like, it looks like the dress in my mind, which is,
45:27
I'm always working to shorten that Gap, the dress in my mind
45:30
versus the dress on camera so much can happen in between so
45:33
many, you know, opinions shipping, delays fabric, so many
45:38
things can change. JH.
45:39
And so when they when they get really close to that dress in my
45:42
mind, I that's got to be my costume to rule them all.
45:46
I love that one. I know exactly which one you're
45:48
talking about. It's definitely one of my
45:49
favorites too. I I love that.
45:52
That was a, that was a very cool one that's gonna go on the
45:55
record as saying to all my fellow designers, it is time to
45:59
start picking favorites. No more.
46:04
I want to know pick a favorite. It's everyone who's listening.
46:09
We You're the designer is a choice.
46:11
Well, some decide to say, they'd rather not choose a favorite,
46:14
which I understand. But then it's like, you know, is
46:17
Brad Pitt going to listen to this and be like, they didn't
46:19
pick my costume, you know, type of thing.
46:22
Well, so I think we're okay, just pick, right?
46:29
Well, if that Mitchell, thank you so much for joining us.
46:32
This was such a tree. I love this.
46:34
What a great way to start our Shakespeare month.
46:36
I mean, it doesn't get better than this.
46:39
Yeah. Thank you so much Mitchell.
46:40
This is what such a joy and thank you for listening to the
46:42
podcast and supporting us. You know.
46:44
We love everything you do. And I'm just so excited for the
46:47
next thing that we could get you on here for your one of our
46:51
favorites. Don't make me blast, come on, be
46:57
sure everyone. If you love all these stories
47:00
you know Mitchell occasionally post some great costumes on his
47:03
Instagram, follow him at underscore Mitchell, Travis
47:06
underscore. Check out some of these costumes
47:08
for yourself. Great.
47:10
And if you want to weigh in on which costume ruled them all,
47:14
you can leave us a voicemail at 62. 65 15 18 26 or you can email
47:20
us at the Arctic Asia blogcast at gmail.com.
47:24
Spencer, what are we watching next week?
47:27
Well, I think your rosy, I your love for Romeo and Juliet's
47:32
probably be short-lived because next week we are watching the
47:35
most roomy and Juliet story of them all the Romans.
47:39
Juliet directed by baz luhrmann it's quite it's a good one.
47:44
You're gonna love it. Looks like can't wait.
47:49
I'm sure everything's going to work out in the end of this one.
47:51
Sure if, if you loved this episode, don't forget to follow
47:56
us on Instagram, at the art accosting, pod Tick-Tock at the
47:59
art of costume where we'll be posting clips from this episode.
48:02
Don't forget, we have a merch store at the art of costume.com
48:05
pod store, and when you have a chance, don't forget to leave us
48:08
a 5-star X review on Apple podcast.
48:11
It really does help Mitchell. This has been such a joy
48:14
Elizabeth. It's good seeing you.
48:16
Thank you all for listening. Thank you.
48:18
Have a good week. You're out of costume.
48:24
Blogcast is hosted and produced by Elizabeth Joy, glass, and
48:29
Spencer Williams. Our audio engineering and
48:32
editing is done by Dan White. Follow us on Instagram, at the
48:37
art of costume pod or visit the art of costume blogcast.com.
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For all blogcast updates, if you want to support the show, go to
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the art of costume.com /. Pause store.
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For more costume reviews deep, Dives and interviews, head over
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to the art of costume.com a Blog dedicated to highlighting the
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best in costume design. We're really excited about this
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one, especially because Elizabeth is notorious for not
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liking Romeo and Juliet this movie.