Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Throwback! S5 EP 175 - Perfecting the Pirouette - Tips from the Pros

Transcript

Throwback! S5 EP 175 - Perfecting the Pirouette - Tips from the Pros · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:02
SPEAKER_03: Hey everyone, Courtney Ortiz here, and welcome back to another throwback episode of season 7.
0:08
SPEAKER_03: Today we're rewinding to one of our most requested technique episodes from season 5, episode 175, Perfecting the Pirouette.
0:16
SPEAKER_03: Tips from the Pros.
0:18
SPEAKER_03: Turns are a skill all dancers love to perfect.
0:21
SPEAKER_03: And in this episode, we sit down with two powerhouse educators, Drew Burgess and Lisa Curatolo Turpin from Expressions Dance Center, to break down every element of a successful turn, from the prep to the rotations and the finish.
0:35
SPEAKER_03: Even two years later, this chat still holds up as a must-listen for dancers, teachers, and parents.
0:41
SPEAKER_03: And as dance competition choreography gets flashier and dance team dreams are a high priority for many, this episode is your reminder that clean technique always wins.
0:51
SPEAKER_03: So whether you're a dancer drilling quadruple pirouettes or a teacher refining your turning technique, get ready to take some notes.
0:58
SPEAKER_03: Alright, let's jump into this throwback episode from season five: Perfecting the Pirouette.
1:04
SPEAKER_03: Tips from the pros.
1:05
SPEAKER_03: Enjoy.
1:10
SPEAKER_03: Hey y'all, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
1:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
1:17
SPEAKER_03: Hello, Courtney.
1:18
SPEAKER_03: How are you?
1:19
SPEAKER_03: I'm doing great.
1:20
SPEAKER_04: How are you doing?
1:21
SPEAKER_04: So good.
1:22
SPEAKER_04: Really excited about today's episode.
1:24
SPEAKER_04: We have some awesome guests and a topic that we've wanted to cover for a while and we found the right people.
1:29
SPEAKER_04: So here we are.
1:30
SPEAKER_03: Yes, we are talking all about pirouettes today on Making the Impact.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: Something that I know a lot of dancers out there love to do.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: We as judges watch y'all pirouette for your life all the time on stage of competition.
1:44
SPEAKER_03: But now we're going to talk about some of those tips and tricks for more successful pirouettes from our fabulous guests.
1:50
SPEAKER_03: But before we do, we have a Making the Impact Award to share.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: We do.
1:55
SPEAKER_03: For all of our listeners out there, as you know, we have our Making the Impact Award that is being presented at all IDA affiliated competition events this season with at least one IDA Judge on the panel.
2:08
SPEAKER_03: We love giving out this award sponsored by the podcast, and this award can go to any dance throughout the entire weekend that your IDA judges still made an impact through their technique, their performance, their execution, choreography.
2:21
SPEAKER_03: They want to recognize you.
2:23
SPEAKER_03: And now, fun fact about this award is you get a podcast shout out.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: Your studio and your dance gets a shout-out on our podcast.
2:31
SPEAKER_03: So let's hear our latest Making the Impact winner.
2:36
SPEAKER_04: The latest one is from the one and only Streets Dance Convention in Houston, Texas, which means Courtney and Maddie got to give this award out.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
2:45
SPEAKER_04: Cool.
2:46
SPEAKER_04: So congratulations to the pack from Spring, Texas, for their tap duet, Gravy Waltz.
2:52
SPEAKER_04: That sounds groovy.
2:54
SPEAKER_03: It was groovy.
2:55
SPEAKER_03: They had tap boards.
2:56
SPEAKER_03: It was so well executed.
2:58
SPEAKER_03: Amazing tap training.
2:59
SPEAKER_03: We had to recognize it.
3:00
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I love it.
3:01
SPEAKER_04: I love it.
3:01
SPEAKER_04: Well, congratulations, the pack from Spring, Texas, and we can't wait to award some more awards throughout the season.
3:08
SPEAKER_03: All right, Dance World, we are jumping in to our next episode all about pirouettes.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: Not turns, not spins, actual pirouettes that you see on competitions on the competition stage and that you drill like crazy in all of your technique classes.
3:26
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, we we're gonna talk about all different types of pirouettes because they don't just exist in jazz class.
3:32
SPEAKER_03: You probably do them in contemporary and lyrical and of course ballet.
3:36
SPEAKER_03: And maybe even sometimes you're doing some turns and pirouettes and tap dances and tap shoes.
3:41
SPEAKER_03: You never know.
3:42
SPEAKER_03: So today we have two fantastic guests who are joining us to go over how we can perfect those pirouettes on this week's episode.
3:51
SPEAKER_03: Our first guest is a returning guest to our podcast.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: They are also an IDA judge on the roster and the acro king, for sure.
4:00
SPEAKER_03: If you have ever taken acro, you need to get into the acro class with Mr.
4:04
SPEAKER_03: Drew Burgess.
4:05
SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to the podcast, Drew.
4:07
SPEAKER_03: We're so happy to have you.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Courtney, and I'm thrilled to be here.
4:11
SPEAKER_03: Yes, and for all of our listeners out there, Drew was on the was on the podcast previously.
4:18
SPEAKER_03: Season one, episode 17.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: Whew, so long ago.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: The evolution of acro.
4:24
SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: It was a great one.
4:26
SPEAKER_03: Such a great chat.
4:27
SPEAKER_03: So, Drew, we're so happy to have you back.
4:30
SPEAKER_03: And this time we're we're talking about actual technique in jazz and lyrical and contemporary and all of the things with the pirouettes.
4:38
SPEAKER_03: And I know you're gonna bring so much to this perspective and chat.
4:40
SPEAKER_03: So can't wait.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm thrilled to be here.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
4:44
SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
4:45
SPEAKER_03: Well, Drew, if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more about you, reminding everybody, since it's been a minute, where you're based, what your uh what your early training was like, what you're working on now.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: So hi, uh I'm from Columbus, Ohio.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh I travel year round as a dance educator, as a guest choreographer, as a teacher, as a judge.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: I work for many different competitions.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Yet uh like Courtney said, I'm part of the IDA roster.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm a certified member and part of the faculty for Dance Educators of America, for Dance Masters of America as well.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm an examiner and course conductor for acrobatic arts.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm on staff uh at Straub Dance Center in Columbus, Ohio each week.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm a guest consultant for their Acro Dance portion of the uh for the Ohio dance uh the Ohio State University Dance Team.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: So that's been really fun to work with them this past year.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: I was a swing for the Bad Boys of Dance, and uh I was a junior Mr.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Dance of America and Mr.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: Dance of America.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: Yes! Those competition titles do not leave.
5:52
SPEAKER_03: They are still with us.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: It is part of it is like a little bit of a selling point that some people still care about.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of fun to say.
6:00
SPEAKER_03: There's only And it's like a full circle, too.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
6:04
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
6:05
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
6:05
SPEAKER_03: Well, Drew, I can't wait to chat with you about Pirouts.
6:08
SPEAKER_03: Thanks for being here.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
6:09
SPEAKER_03: All right, our next special guest is a brand new guest to our podcast.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: But you may have heard of their studio because they've also been on our podcast two times.
6:20
SPEAKER_03: Her sister has been on our podcast two other times on Making the Impact.
6:24
SPEAKER_03: And the studio that I'm talking about, they're known for their turns.
6:28
SPEAKER_03: We had to have them on this chat is Expressions in Indiana.
6:32
SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to welcome Lisa Curatolo Turpin to the podcast.
6:36
SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Lisa.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: I am so excited.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: First time?
6:41
unknown: Yes.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: Is this your first podcast ever?
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: I mean, how many, how many dance podcasts really even well?
6:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that might be naive for me to say.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: I feel like the only dance podcast, actually, the only dance podcast I know is yours.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: So we might know like one part of one more, but like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: So it's my first podcast.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited.
7:02
SPEAKER_03: Yay.
7:02
SPEAKER_03: We're so happy to have you.
7:03
SPEAKER_03: And you and Carla co do you co-own the studio together?
7:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, we direct it together.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: So actually, me and my sister, one thing that like a lot of people don't realize is we're eight years apart and we actually have a middle sister between us too.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: So when she um graduated high school, she went to Butler University, which I'm sure she talked about when she was on here.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: And she opened expressions like right out of college.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: And I was actually still a sophomore in high school at the time.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: So I know, so it's so crazy to like think back on.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: So I was a sophomore in high school.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: I finished out because I was grew up in Michigan.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: And upon graduation at high school, we always knew like we wanted to own a studio together or run it together.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: We actually used to play dance studio in our basement.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: And we had a sign, and I'm like kicking myself I didn't save the sign because there's a sign that said it was our studio was called Dance Explosions with a Z, which is so funny and like full circle.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: So after graduation, I went to Ball State because it's only about like 45 minutes from where my sister's studio was.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: And I always knew that like that was my like end goal was to kind of be there with her.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: So um I got my BFA in dance, and honestly, I'm so grateful that I kind of went to a different university that had different um training and opportunities because it was much more musical theater based.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: And I definitely got a lot of jazz, musical theater experience that she didn't necessarily get at Butler.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: So I feel like that's helped us so much at the studio, just bringing and just different connections.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: Like we have a lot of employees from both Ball State and Butler.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: So it's been really great, like being able to utilize both universities to like help our program.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: What a lovely combo platter that makes.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: I know.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, like it's known for their like strong theater department and like their jazz.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: So that's fantastic.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Like their singers are incredible there too.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: I know.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: And like, even like it's so funny.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: So, like, my old professors, they like help us with our props and they do our props and our costumes and like different stuff.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: So it's just like, yeah, so it's been like so cool.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: And then like we have butler professors that actually teach ballet to like our kids weekly.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: So like it's just been like really cool to be able to like tap into both of the schools we went to and like use them to help train our own dancers.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: And that only helps them know the kids too as they prepare for college more.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Like that this is a great thing you have going.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Well done.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Very, very good.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, very smart.
9:22
SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, that is and actually I didn't know that about Ball State, so I'm learning something new.
9:27
SPEAKER_03: I think that sounds and that's in Indiana.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's in Muncie, Indiana.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, like it's like so surprising, but like you like Sutton Foster was an adjunct faculty member.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you know who Sutton Foster is, but like she's like the queen of musical letters.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: And it's like she taught me how to put a mic on a head.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: Like I remember I was so starstruck.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: I was a little freshman, and she was technically like the producer or like the director or something of the musical that year.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: They were doing Drazi Chaperone, which was her original, like she's on the original cast of that.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: And I remember I was like looking at her and she's like, No, you gotta go like this.
10:00
SPEAKER_03: And she's like teaching me how to put a mic on a head, and I'm like, But just to clarify, because I'm curious now, and this is not pirouette talk yet, but were you a dance major at Ball State?
10:11
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I was a dance major.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: I honestly could have never gotten into the musical theater program.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: It is so like prestigious and elite.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, I did not like I I was always interested in it, but I did not have the singing and acting experience that I needed to.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: But like through being there, I was able to take like acting classes and even just being a part of that like worlded community and like meeting people.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: It just like that's exactly where I needed to be, and that's what I was most interested in dance anyway, was more like the theater jazz realm.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: So it was like the perfect fit for me.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: But like even though like the dance majors were able to be in the musicals, yes.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: And I was always joking because they were in our jazz classes and like well, they were in our ballet classes, they took all their dance classes with them.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Like it's a collab, like they're very, very intertwined.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so like I like actually, like one of a girl, she was like a little bit older than me.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: She was like Tina Turner on the Tina Turner musical, and like I just remember I like literally took ballet like right next to her.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: So it's like so crazy, like looking now and seeing all the musical theater majors, they're off like living their best life, yeah, things.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so we took classes with them.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: We obviously did stuff on our own too, but like it was definitely like collaborating.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: We did our Nutcracker a senior year, and they actually had like the musical theater majors like be a part of our nutcracker too.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: We just needed more bodies and stuff, so like cool, it was awesome.
11:29
unknown: Yeah.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: True's loving it.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's so rare for I love all of this so much.
11:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it's it's just I think you're loving it.
11:39
SPEAKER_04: I'll say Indiana and Ohio, way to go.
11:42
SPEAKER_04: Like you're loving it because it doesn't happen very often in colleges.
11:46
SPEAKER_04: The dance in the musical theater, people typically are like, no, no, we can't, we can couldn't possibly.
11:51
SPEAKER_04: And you're like, why, why?
11:52
SPEAKER_04: We're the same.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we really are.
11:54
SPEAKER_03: It makes me excited to know that just because I don't know much about that program, but to even hear you as a dance major who learned how to put a mic on her head in a musical.
12:03
SPEAKER_03: Most dance majors don't even have the opportunity to be in the musicals at college.
12:07
SPEAKER_03: So I think that's really awesome.
12:08
SPEAKER_03: So for uh any listeners out there who have dancers who are interested in the Broadway world but still want to get a dance BFA, you can do that at Ball State.
12:16
SPEAKER_03: And sounds like you can still be heavily involved with fierce musical theater dancers and singers.
12:20
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
12:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
12:21
SPEAKER_04: Future Sutton Foster, maybe.
12:23
SPEAKER_04: Love it.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe Sutton awful Foster put a microphone on your head too.
12:28
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
12:28
SPEAKER_03: Sweet, y'all.
12:29
SPEAKER_03: Well, we're excited to chat, dance, and pirouette today.
12:33
SPEAKER_03: So let's let's do it.
12:34
SPEAKER_03: Let's jump in.
12:35
SPEAKER_04: Ooh.
12:36
SPEAKER_04: Ah, it's such a big conversation, Courtney.
12:38
SPEAKER_04: What are we ever gonna start?
12:39
SPEAKER_04: We're so excited about this one.
12:41
SPEAKER_04: I think mainly because like when when the general public thinks of dancers, you think of I think of I think think people think of two things turns and leaps.
12:52
SPEAKER_04: Like when you think of what dancers do, oh the dancers, you might can you turn?
12:55
SPEAKER_04: Can you spin?
12:56
SPEAKER_04: Can you spin?
12:57
SPEAKER_04: People are always asking that.
12:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
12:58
SPEAKER_04: And I think, you know, that's what kids also are excited about because they spinning's fun.
13:03
SPEAKER_04: And then you have to turn it into pirouetting.
13:05
SPEAKER_04: So I want to I guess get started at the very beginning of how do we how do we move from spinning as a human being who likes to spin and get dizzy to teaching pirouettes, which is a technical element of dance?
13:19
SPEAKER_04: It's a big question.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: So we really try to teach pirouettes like super slowly.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, you don't really get, we call it like permission to turn until you've like really mastered the balance.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: So um we like basically like my TI one class, I actually don't teach the TI1s this year, so sad.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: Last year I taught them though, but I had to cut back a little bit because I just had a baby.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: And um, so I don't teach the TI ones, but I still teach the TI twos.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: And but last year my TI1 class, like I most of the kids just held they did like their prep.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: So they would go step step and passe balance.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: And you kind of had to graduate into doing even just a single.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: So it was like very like exciting, and they were like so excited when they got to be able to do a single.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: And then I also, which maybe this makes me a mean teacher, but like if a kid started spinning, I would be like, you no longer allow allowed to turn.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: Like you have to go back to doing the passe balance.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: And I'd be like, Yeah, I would.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you do it in like a kind, like I'm like, okay, like you're you're starting to spin.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: Do we spin?
14:26
SPEAKER_02: They're like, no, I'm like, so you got to go back to being a balance.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: And once you can show me you can do good technique, you can go back to turning.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you know, just kind of like reiterating that the most important part is the technique.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: And never I'm very conscious to like only make compliments that are regarding like proper technique.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: So I usually am never getting excited in class, even when like a kid does a double or a triple and it like surprises me.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
14:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: If it's not done like and executed perfectly, I'm really careful and conscious that like my praise is only coming from really good technique because then they get excited after they do something technically correct rather than just getting excited for spinning around four times.
15:07
SPEAKER_03: Right.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: So, and I think kind of creating that mental shift within the kids that the priority is the positioning.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: I also am really careful about like just kind of having assistance and having guidance and people for them to look at that are are doing what I am wanting them to do.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: That's making sure that and it's gotten easier as our studio has grown and gotten like older and bigger because most of the kids now are doing their returns technically correct, honestly, like at the studio.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: So I can say like, how does Emily Haas turn?
15:39
SPEAKER_02: Or I can even bring Emily Haas or like certain dancers in and have them demonstrate.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: And like it's just a good being able to like see what I'm telling them and seeing how, oh, when all like I always say it's like a Jenga, like when all the Jenga blocks are perfect, like it works out, you know what I'm saying?
15:54
SPEAKER_02: But if one Jenga block goes, it can fall apart, you know?
15:57
SPEAKER_02: So I think just reiterating that it is more important that it is done correctly than just getting around a million times.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: So Amen.
16:07
unknown: Yeah.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: Go through Pat in the porch to throw it out.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: So for me, uh, I have a similar approach.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: It's all about balancing, really.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Like you have to show me a 10 count balance from a six-step before I even let you do a single pirouette or a double pirouette.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, you need to be able to hold it as like 10 counts because then if I see that you can hold a balance for 10 full counts, there's a good chance I will be able to see you eventually turn for 10 counts.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: So although the double is like like uh we wish we all had that perfect pill to give everybody perfect double pirouette on both sides of their body.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: I wish we could like, you know, capsule it and make it and make millions off of it.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: But long and short, it's about balance.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: So we balance at the bar, we balance in the center, uh, we balance going across the floor.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh I make my kids do a lot of plank passe variations and then I make them take off their arms, like the opposite arm has leg.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: So that way they have to understand the squareness of their shoulders to hips, like basically keeping that like alignment solid.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: We talk about like four parts of the rib cage being closed together and like a zipped up vest.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: We do a lot of like waddle spots and like spotting exercises too.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: So like we'll like waddle to like focus on keeping a chin flat, you know.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, what's a waddle?
17:28
SPEAKER_01: I need I need more like just like around, like you know, like scooting around and then snapping.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I see, and then going the other way.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Like just like like a penguin waddle if you want to.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: No, it's on the same page.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: And then like you can also upgrade that to like eventually like a half pony instead of it just being a waddle, and then you can snap their head around.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: So like a quarter turn, like a passe down and a slight rotation.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: We do like a quarter turn, we do a half turn, we do a three-quarter turn, we do a you know, a single.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: But one of my emphasis uh with my kids is that we actually try to finish the pirouette up and not finish the pirouette down into the floor.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of kids want to just try to lift their passe leg and put it right back down and spin as fast as they can without actually finding the correct shape and position and maintaining the true balance that they once had when you know we have to do that 10 count balance.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's funny, as soon as you start letting them turn too soon, like what Lisa was saying, sometimes that technique can literally crumble right in front of your eyes because uh there is that like that wanna jump to because what because I did a single, I want to do three now.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Like they want to just push for more and more when you really have to like keep a lid on it and train it the right way, go slow and low.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I and completely one thing kind of piggybacking off of what you're saying, um, you kind of reminded me about like other exercises that we do.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: And one thing that we try to work really hard on are actually Shanae turns.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: And I work super hard on Shane turns the entire year for TI1 because um the ability to hold your shoulders and like core engaged and your arms still the entire time you're going across the floor while doing Shanae turns is so important and that translates directly into your pirouettes.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: So I just think that a lot of uh dancers, I'm like, okay, we just need to work on Shane turns for like ever because you know, for spotting purposes wall spot changes.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Like that is a like like you know, everybody wants to do PK turn wall spot changes, but nobody ever wants to do Shene turn wall spot changes.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: Like you have to do the Chaneys first before you're allowed to do the PKs.
19:41
SPEAKER_03: Love it.
19:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the spot, the spot is what, you know, I think the Chenes for sure um help you engage so many different parts of your body to understand the mechanics of of that rotation.
19:53
SPEAKER_03: But I think that Chenae turns really get the dancers to understand how to find that snap of the head in the spot.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: I always tell dancers in my class, I'm like, you should be spotting so hard that if you have your ponytail out, it should be whipping you in the face every single time you do your spot.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: And then they're like, Well, what if I don't have my ponytail?
20:09
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, then think that you have a ponytail.
20:11
SPEAKER_03: Imagine it needs to be whipping you in the face like every time to find that spot.
20:15
SPEAKER_03: But like, you know, of course, the dancers see other dancers doing turns and they just want to spin around doing pirouettes when they have they don't even know how to find their spot in a Senae turn.
20:26
SPEAKER_03: Like, I agree.
20:27
SPEAKER_03: I think that's kind of we have to go back to that first.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: I think a Sheney turn needs to be perfected before we're even attempting pirouette spots.
20:35
SPEAKER_03: And then with that, like you said, Drew, I love the balance that is so crucial.
20:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I grew up doing the standard like first position parallel, tondo side, prepare back, passe releve, and then we lower straight down in from passe, parallel passe, straight down back into sixth position, like controlled in in we would put it end in a plie and control it down, but we would, you know, try to suspend till the last second.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: And it was all I just know it was so ingrained in my head, and I think that's something that's being lost in in how pirouettes are even being taught to dancers, is the lack of connection to the timing and rhythm and counting of a pirouette.
21:14
SPEAKER_03: Like you said, Drew, like if you can, if you can hold a balance for 10 counts, that's a rotation, two, three, four, five, six, you know, that that technically should be timed out.
21:25
SPEAKER_03: It's not just a spin for your life at whatever timing you want.
21:28
SPEAKER_03: There still needs to be actual connection to the music.
21:32
SPEAKER_03: And that gets lost so much now.
21:33
SPEAKER_03: If it's not timed out, dancers don't know how long they have for the rotation.
21:37
SPEAKER_03: Right.
21:38
SPEAKER_03: You know, if they're not connecting it to the if the song is slow, like I I forget, someone asked me this in class this past weekend in my jazz mini class, and I said you can do a double pirouette.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: There's two counts for your double pirouette on count five, six, you finish on count seven, nice and strong in second position.
21:53
SPEAKER_03: And they were like, Well, what if I'm doing the single?
21:56
SPEAKER_03: When do I finish?
21:57
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, Well, you still Take two counts for the single.
22:02
SPEAKER_03: You have to fill it for two counts.
22:04
SPEAKER_03: You're not really.
22:06
SPEAKER_03: It's harder.
22:07
SPEAKER_03: It's harder, but you don't get to finish early just because you're opting for the single.
22:12
SPEAKER_03: You still have to fill that through.
22:14
SPEAKER_03: So the connect the disconnection of uh approaching our pirouettes connected to timing, I think is something I see as an issue in our in the way it's being approached and taught, even in choreography for like the babies.
22:28
SPEAKER_03: I want to see their preparation.
22:30
SPEAKER_03: I want to see it connected.
22:31
SPEAKER_03: One, two, hold three, four, go five, six, finish, strong, like whatever it is.
22:36
SPEAKER_03: It should be very timed out.
22:37
SPEAKER_03: And oftentimes it's not.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: I I agree completely.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:41
SPEAKER_04: I wish that's just another plug for musicality.
22:44
SPEAKER_04: Go back and listen to our musicality episodes because that that is what that is.
22:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: I mean, how many times do we see kids on stage just go, ba-ba, and go?
22:54
SPEAKER_03: Like, I I don't even see a preparation.
22:56
SPEAKER_03: It's just like they just walk through it and hope for the best.
22:59
SPEAKER_03: And the and that walk walk through like is completely agreed here.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: You know?
23:05
SPEAKER_01: However, devil's advocate for teachers here, as a teacher, like uh of kids who've, you know, been competing like really since the early 2000s, like when my competitive career was starting to, you know, go in a different direction as well.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: I remember so many critiques on comment and comment taste from judges at that point when they wanted a organic preparation.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: They wanted a hidden mask, disguised preparation.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: They didn't want to see the pirouette happening.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: So it to counter that, the teachers now took that to all ages and levels of the instead of it being like reserved for the dancers who can mask a and give a true organic preparation into another pirouette who are more advanced and more a little more, you know, experienced, if you will.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: For my like littles and my like inters, like I do want to see a a deep preparation into the floor, like because then I feel like you're actually using the the ground properly.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: Like I do want to see a legible position of dance before you come into a pirouette.
24:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and kind of actually what you were talking about, I feel like um we've kind of had a a big shift in our program in the past couple of years, just because like we kind of created new goals and a new vision, and we really wanted to become like a pre-professional program.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: That was like something that like we were actually trying to do and set them up for success for in the future as professionals.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: And one thing too that we've kind of like noticed is that you really need to be able to just prep in whatever way the choreographer wants.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: Like we have been bringing in like more people than ever.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: I think this past year we brought in like 12 guest choreographers.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: So, and it's so funny because everyone has a different opinion, everybody wants it slightly different.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: Some people don't want to see the prep, some people want to see the prep.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: And I think like we always say, like, dance is glorified, Simon says.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: So, like you're just you're like whatever the teacher says, like you're gonna do what they say, you're gonna do it with the smile on your face, you're gonna do your best effort.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: And like if they ask you to do a turned out prep, if they ask you to do parallel prep, if they ask you to basically not prep, if they ask you to go from the floor, if they ask you, like if they tell you to turn from wherever, like you're just gonna do it.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: Like I yeah, I'm really gonna you're eager and you just do it.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something, even like as um well, and I it's like I said, we've been kind of shifting our program, and uh, we're not necessarily just trying to like win competitions anymore.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: And um, we just felt like we needed that for us.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: But if you're trying to like win competitions, your goal is probably different, like especially depending on your venue, you know what those competition circuits like, you know.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: So you may need to like really show off the prep, like you were saying, and like take your time and go slow right on the counts.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: But at some places that is like what you were saying, the judges might not appreciate it and like that and want that.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: They might think it takes away from the dance.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: They might be like, whoa, that felt so like disconnected.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: And you know, and honestly, we've been turning less and less the past few years just because of that.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: We always still have our token, like lyrical dances we do because that's just expressions.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: We're always gonna do it.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: But like thank you.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: We love it.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: I know we love it.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we will never, we will never stop.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: And like, even in like we're doing be our guests this year, like they turn and be our guests and stuff like that.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: But they actually saw the Instagram post the other day.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: It is like the Broadway musical, y'all.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: It is so good.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, but like, you know, in that we turn, but actually everything we do is a very turned out prep because I if you guys have seen musical theater like Be Our Guests, Beauty and the Beast on Stage, like it's very actually ballet.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: Ballet balletically, very waltzy.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: Very waltzy, very ballet inspired.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: So we prepped in a certain way for that.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: So I just I feel like for us, the prep has really evolved to like, does it fit this dance?
26:53
SPEAKER_02: Does it fit this choreographer?
26:55
SPEAKER_02: Like, is it working for this piece?
26:57
SPEAKER_02: And also we've been just kind of teaching trying to teach our kids that like you do whatever that choreographer and teacher says in that moment, and try not to think of like, well, this teacher said this is right.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: Like there is no right.
27:08
SPEAKER_02: This is a made-up art form.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: We're doing whatever we want, everyone's doing whatever they want.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, so it's all a variation of a theme.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: It's ever art or another.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's kind of something that has um changed for us within the past like few years, and I we've definitely noticed that change amongst our studio.
27:30
SPEAKER_03: Dancers, have you ever gotten feedback at competition and thought?
27:33
SPEAKER_03: Wait, what did that correction even mean?
27:36
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27:44
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27:47
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27:51
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27:53
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28:00
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28:46
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28:48
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29:05
SPEAKER_04: That's kind of a good, I like that opinion and that mindset because you know there there are some things, and I say it all the time, like a plie is a plie.
29:13
SPEAKER_04: It's there's a right way to do it for the context in which you are doing it.
29:17
SPEAKER_04: But there is something to be said for looking forward, moving forward, evolving with the art form.
29:22
SPEAKER_04: Because let's face it, ballet's 300 years old.
29:25
SPEAKER_04: Like that times were different way back then.
29:27
SPEAKER_04: Like things are things have changed.
29:29
SPEAKER_04: So that's I really enjoy that perspective for y'all.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: And actually, me and my sister now flip-flop.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: Funny enough.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: So I do a parallel prep in our class and she does a turned-out prep in her class.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: And we've just kind of so we alternate for most jazz classes.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: Our kids take jazz for an hour and 15 minutes once a week.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: And so we have just made it an effort that we alternate so that they're constantly having to use their brains to switch it and they're not getting so used to doing one way.
29:56
SPEAKER_03: But just to clarify for that, when you say that you are doing a parallel prep and she is doing a turned out, what type of pirouettes are you referencing with those preparations?
30:05
SPEAKER_02: So actually, this is probably controversial.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: So when Carla first um started teaching turns, it was kind of, and like both me included, we kind of found that we got most success from the kids when we did a turned out prep because their pelvic alignment was so much better.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
30:21
SPEAKER_02: When they did the parallel prep, a lot of them swayed their back, let their lip let their bellies hang out.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: Like it just wasn't they I felt like when they actively tried to turn out and make we always said, Show me your diamond.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: When they show me their diamond, they naturally just turned out and pushed their hips forward.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: And it was such a better like setup for the people.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: So we kind of started doing a turned out prep for everything.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: It just kind of started happening.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Even for parallel, and we oh, yeah.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: So we would say, like, okay, you switch to parallel after you're in it.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, if you think about it, like in modern dance, I mean, yes, and technically classic jazz that you're doing, it should be parallel.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: But you know, in other art forms or other styles of dance, I mean like you transition in and out of parallel and turned out all the time.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: Like that's dance, like you're going in and out.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, we definitely instructed and informed them that like you transition in and out of parallel.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: We also found it very confusing because we liked a turned out prep for second turns because it is done turned out.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: And we were finding that the kids, especially where we were at the time, that they were really struggling between doing like a turned out prep for second turns and then a parallel prep for pirouettes.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: And like it was just like it was like when they went on stage, it was like all the preps were like wrong, you know.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: So we started doing that.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: This was I'm talking like eight, 10 years ago.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: We started doing turnout preps for everything.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: And then, like I said, over the past kind of five years, we've been transitioning and like learning and growing and being like, okay, we really need to have these kids doing different preps all the time because we were bringing these people in and they just wanted different things.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: So, and our kids were struggling with being able to change what they had previously been learned, like taught.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of why we just started alternating.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: And I do the parallel prep for the parallel, well, alterns and then she even second turns because some people did want parallel preps for second turns, like Drew was kind of saying, like in this dangerous jazz dance, he wanted a parallel prep.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: So we just started doing back and forth, and then honestly, all of our teachers I think are just trying to keep like the kids on their toes, like they're turning them from the floor.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: They're you're landing a leap and turning, you know.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: So it's yeah, we're just trying to challenge them in all the ways.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
32:30
SPEAKER_04: Do you think here's a question?
32:32
SPEAKER_04: So, you know, if if anybody's listening, first first of all, if you don't know expressions, you need to go to Instagram and watch, and then you'll understand why I'm asking this question.
32:40
SPEAKER_04: Do you think this works for y'all because you have such a strong ballet program and a strong teaching faculty who teaches very clearly the understanding of your pelvic placement and the understanding of just body placement and alignment?
32:55
SPEAKER_04: Because I think that that's all well and good and awesome if you have that foundation to back it up.
32:59
SPEAKER_04: If you don't, if you're just like, we're gonna do pirouettes and you can prep however you want, which is what it appears to be happening in other places, I think it falls apart then.
33:08
SPEAKER_04: But do you think this works for y'all because of what you're backing it up with?
33:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: And I do think that one of the biggest problems, and actually when like any sort of like studio owner or teacher is like, How are your kids so good?
33:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it's because they take class all the time.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: Like our kids take modern every week, they take contemporary class every week.
33:30
SPEAKER_02: They have at least three to four ballet classes a week.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Several of them are two hours long.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: They take conditioning class every week, they take jazz class every single week.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, like they are in and when you say class, after class, you know.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: We also have this thing called open class, and they have it every week and it changes like this past week it was hip hop technique.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: Next week it's gonna be yoga, the week after it's ballroom.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: So, like they also have this open class that we just kind of use to fill in the holes because we were noticing we had some holes in our program.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: Like we want to be able to offer offer bro ballroom and like yoga and different things, and we just didn't have time for it.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: So we have this open class to kind of fill in, and we also have hip hop technique class.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: That one is optional, but a lot of kids do do it.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: And I think that a lot of studios just rehearse and that is great for winning a competition, but it's not necessarily well, and honestly, you'll still do better at competition though if you take class.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: But yes, it it just class is more important than rehearsing.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: And I think that if you can switch your mindset and also get kids, there's so many places I go and the kids like hate class.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, how can you be a dancer and hate class?
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Class is the best part.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is dance.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: And there's less stress because you're not like the class is the only performance where every mistake is forgiven-ish, you know, aside from behavior, right?
34:50
SPEAKER_01: But like class is that performance where you you're you're forgiven if you mess up, you know?
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: It's your class.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: This is the safe place for you to try those things out and see if it works or see if it doesn't, and then self-correct yourself and try it again.
35:04
SPEAKER_03: Like that's what class is for.
35:06
SPEAKER_03: It's not just about drilling a routine 24-7 and your pirouett's wrong every time you do it because you never had a class that actually perfected how to do the pirouette correctly.
35:17
SPEAKER_03: Like, we're just drilling bad technique instead of perfecting good technique in the class.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: And that's what's getting lost.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: And class also needs to be not just combos.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: Cause I also like talk to people and they just do combos.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: Combos are great and valuable, but like, like you have to do exercises and training and like like modern class should be so structured, it's like a ballet class.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Like you know what I'm saying?
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Like and like they need to be doing things that are training their bodies and helping set themselves up for success when they're executing choreography.
35:50
SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of people just do combos then in class, and that's not really I mean, that's fun, but it's not necessarily as beneficial for the dancers, like long-term growth.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
36:01
unknown: Yeah.
36:02
SPEAKER_04: I like what you said, Drew.
36:03
SPEAKER_04: The combos are earned.
36:04
SPEAKER_04: Combos are earned in my class.
36:05
SPEAKER_04: That's the treat.
36:06
SPEAKER_04: That's it.
36:06
SPEAKER_04: You don't get a sticker, you get a combo.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: Like arms during pirouettes and like combinations with pirouettes, those are earned.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Like you can't give me two eight eight counts across the floor with perfect technique.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: Why am I gonna try to give you a minute-long combo in the center of the floor?
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Like you have to earn that, like that that extra thing, you know?
36:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: But I realize I never really answered your question.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: But yes, I do think that this works for us because of the the teachers and the amount of class that the kids are taking, and I'm not sure necessarily that kind of freedom with the prep would work for everyone.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:45
SPEAKER_03: I want to go back on to the prep talk for a minute, and I want to share some of my thoughts on it, and we can kind of get into our uh, you know, debate a little if needed, and a lot of people will be listening.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: I'm I was brought up learning your prep matches the type of position that you're going to be doing in the turn, and that went across the board in every genre.
37:07
SPEAKER_03: So even though like I'm known as a jazz dancer and a jazz teacher, and everyone's like, Courtney does jazz, she is a jazz girly.
37:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm still a stickler for a turned out preparation in fourth position for a coupe pirouette in jazz.
37:19
SPEAKER_03: That's just how I was trained, that's just all I know.
37:21
SPEAKER_03: And there was never any question on my end.
37:24
SPEAKER_03: Like I like our my entire studio never got confused as to what it was going to be because it was just if we're doing turned out, it's a turned out prep.
37:32
SPEAKER_03: If we're doing parallel, it's a parallel prep.
37:34
SPEAKER_03: So I think that that still might exist sometimes at studios, but then it's turning into like either it's not drilled enough where it's muscle memory for the dancers to understand the turned out prep, and then it gets into that in-between front parallel foot, back turned out foot.
37:51
SPEAKER_04: Turned out back foot.
37:52
SPEAKER_03: And the heels down, and it's like a combination of a parallel prep, meets a turned out prep, and it's like, what's going on?
37:58
SPEAKER_03: And like I feel like that's what we see all the time.
38:01
SPEAKER_03: Like, I actually see that horrible prep more often than I see a true parallel prep in jazz with the back heel lifted and a back parallel foot, and more than I see an actual turned out prep.
38:13
SPEAKER_03: Like I rarely ever see anyone do a turned-out preparation anymore in any style, even like, except if you're in the ballet category, but like even in lyrical.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: Like I, like you said, like earlier, Drew, I want to see a turned out prep in Lyrical.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: I want to know that you know how to do that.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it it's all a personal preference, right?
38:32
SPEAKER_01: Like everybody has their own preferences on what they want.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: And that's what Lisa was like mentioning earlier in driving home that kids have to be able to adapt and do all of this, especially if we're gonna be training them to be employable, not just great, you know, comp routine, you know, kids.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: Like comp routines are fun.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Then that's awesome that you can, you know, rehearse and master those, but like can you take class?
38:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, can you, you know, can you learn combinations that are, you know, going across the floor and beyond that.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, so this whole like preparation thing, at least for like where I'm coming from with it, I am from that that same type of like school and thought with you, Courtney.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Like jazz preparation for pirouettes, like if they're gonna be parallel, like coming into that first pirouette, that back heel should be up, that front heel should be down, like you should have that like basically like four starch and chassis, and you show that like deep like plie into the ground.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: And it should like, I don't know, look and feel grounded and centered and like you know, solid before you press off and actually get something out of the floor.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: So I'm totally with you in that other sense though, of like turned out preparation to going into coup de pied devant pirouette.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: Like that to me, that only makes sense because that's what I was trained in so often as well.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: Like it just that's what drives play at home with me.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: There are exceptions to every rule though.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: So like, but I feel like in general, kids have to know the rules before they can break the rules.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: So it's a like fine balance, right?
40:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: Well, back to Madikurt's Madikurt always says that.
40:05
SPEAKER_03: That's that's where I think the problem is, is that it's not really being enforced enough.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: And then I start questioning, well, do the teachers actually know what the rule is?
40:14
SPEAKER_03: Because I I see it consistently across the board in let's say it's a group dance.
40:20
SPEAKER_03: It's not like there's, you know, two people doing it right and whatever.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: It's like everyone's doing this in-between preparation that's not clear.
40:29
SPEAKER_03: And whenever I see clean preps, I thank the teacher and choreographer or all thank the dancers.
40:35
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for get showing me a clean prep.
40:37
SPEAKER_03: Regard, you know, regard and and obviously, like we talked about, sometimes we want the preps disguised and that's fine.
40:42
SPEAKER_03: But like throughout my time sitting on a judging panel for 20 hours, I should have a very strong idea by the end of that weekend of what your technical training looks like.
40:50
SPEAKER_03: And I can tell consistently if you don't know how to prep use your preparation or not.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: Or you just use your plie for your preparation.
40:57
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
40:58
SPEAKER_03: Like there's so you know, there's so many f holes and flaws, but then they're like, I want a low releve and did six pirouettes, and they think that's exciting.
41:06
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I'm still thinking about how bad your prep was.
41:09
SPEAKER_03: I don't even care that you did six pirouettes.
41:12
SPEAKER_03: Like, right.
41:12
SPEAKER_03: Then on top of it, you have a low releve.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: A releve.
41:16
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
41:16
SPEAKER_02: A releve.
41:18
SPEAKER_04: Well, that's I wanted to ask Drew because I'm curious about you know, you travel so much and you see so many kids across the country, everywhere, different contexts and everything.
41:28
SPEAKER_04: What's up with the low releve but 15 turns?
41:31
SPEAKER_04: Like, help me understand what that is, how that works.
41:35
SPEAKER_04: Is this a is this a product of using a turnboard?
41:38
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't remember for a second here with the turnboard thing.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: Now, mind you, if you if if if there's a kid really, really struggling with the idea of spotting their head while they're on one leg, that turnboard might help them understand the concept of spotting and trying to stay in place.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: But is it really helping them actually learn how to do it in a releve?
42:00
SPEAKER_01: Like is like is where I'm at.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: I just encourage my kids to balance in a passe every time they're in front of the mirror.
42:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes, this could be like brushing their hair, brushing their team their teeth.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: Same balance in a passe, preferably on both sides of your body, and preferably on a red bottom releve.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: I want like releve.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: If I were to paint the bottom of the foot, I want I want to see that red sole or like whatever color it might be, right?
42:30
SPEAKER_01: But like I want to bring back red bottom releves.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Like it needs to be a thing again.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: I want to see an actual releve.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: I would rather see a beautiful double pirouette on a high releve than six pirouettes on a rel-ish right here.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: Baby relationship.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:49
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like a lot of kids just don't have the ankle strength to hold a releve.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: So they like just physically can't even do it.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: And but the teachers I think are still asking for these turns.
42:59
SPEAKER_02: So then a sacrifice has to be made.
43:02
SPEAKER_02: Right.
43:02
SPEAKER_02: Because they physically can't even hold their body up on a high releve.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: Like they can't, their ankles are wobbling like this, you know?
43:08
SPEAKER_02: So I think that I think too, it sounds terrible, but I think sometimes bad turns still get rewarded at competition.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh, they're not.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: By someone.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not me.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: I I see it myself and I see it at places, and I just am like, how how did that win?
43:24
SPEAKER_02: Like how I like I think that I mean, not saying that like it needs to be like end all be all, but if you see someone turning like that poorly, and it's not like, oh, they just dropped their heel, like no, like this is how this is their standard for themselves.
43:36
SPEAKER_02: Like they should not be doing like super high in the top ten, in my opinion.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: But that's also like my opinion.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: Everyone has a different opinion, but I think it's it gets rewarded.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: And I think so then teachers are like, do 10 turns and they don't even care that it's on a flag.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: Right, like they're traveling all the way across the state.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: They're literally where he is literally digging a gouge in the floor.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: 'Cause they're they're still gonna win and they're like do well, so then it's like whatever, you know, but and it and like uh social media is not helping, especially with the like regardless if it's r rewarded at the competitions, now everything is blasted on social media with the reward.
44:15
SPEAKER_03: And in even if you're not first place overall, a competition can like hand select a dance that got whatever overall or not overall and be like, watch this amazing turner.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: And it's just poorly executed turns, but it's it's a reward because it was posted and highlighted.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: And then everyone sees it, and then people think, well, if that competition posted this, then that's how turns are supposed to look.
44:39
SPEAKER_03: So I my turn should look like that.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: But they had a low relevant, so I guess it's okay because they posted it.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just one shoe on.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: If she's allowed to do it, why not?
44:47
SPEAKER_01: No, no.
44:48
SPEAKER_03: Well, don't even oh my god, don't even get on the one shoe.
44:51
SPEAKER_03: I know, I know.
44:52
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: We were gonna talk about it at some point, though.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: We were sure whatever.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: It's down here, it's on the list.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard.
44:58
SPEAKER_03: We had to cover it.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the kids are gonna cut corners whenever they can.
45:04
SPEAKER_02: So like you as a teacher.
45:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, smart.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: Let's be real, we all did it.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, so like if if kids are gonna cut corners, so like you have to really value it and care about it as the teacher.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: If you're not gonna care about it, your kids are not gonna care about it.
45:18
SPEAKER_02: Like they're a product of you and your teaching.
45:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
45:20
SPEAKER_02: So I think when you see it, it just kind of is a reflection on probably or the inconsistency in training that's happening in the studio.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: Because I also kind of what you were talking about, where like, do these teachers even know?
45:30
SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of studios, like the staff isn't on the same page.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: I agree.
45:34
SPEAKER_02: Yes, correct.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: So it could be like an inconsistency in training, and certain teachers have certain expectations, or their level of quality of what they expect is maybe higher than others.
45:44
SPEAKER_02: So it just it gets to be that I think the kids just kind of do whatever.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, give them an inch of that power and they'll take a mile real quick.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: Like you you let them go with their heel an inch off the floor, they will go lower than that because you've let them like they have to start at that like seven, eight-inch releve.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: Like it needs to be massive, like they're wearing like demi point shoes, you know.
46:08
SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
46:10
SPEAKER_04: And well, that needs to be part of the training too, is just like you said, Drew, just be in releve, just all the time.
46:15
SPEAKER_04: Just all the time being relevant.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: Do relevays like everywhere that should be a consistent and build that correct angle strength and doing it the correct way.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: Like not practicing it poorly, but like practice with you know, a hope of perfection.
46:27
SPEAKER_03: Yes, and that comes from ballet class.
46:30
SPEAKER_03: Like as much as people don't want to think that that's where your releve, an actual ballet term, an actual ballet step, your releve comes from ballet.
46:40
SPEAKER_03: That's why we have to do ballet class so frequently is to get that repetition and build the strength in our standing leg and our supporting leg to support us for advanced skills like turns.
46:51
SPEAKER_03: So, like, like you were saying, Lisa, like a lot of kids just don't have the strength to find that releve.
46:56
SPEAKER_03: That's when I go back and I'm like, well, what does your releve look like in ballet?
47:00
SPEAKER_03: Is it that low in ballet and you're not even understanding how to manipulate your foot and articulate to your fullest, highest relevant position, and no one's correcting you, then that's where the flaws in the training are coming in.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: Because then that's if they're just practicing 50% releves at the ballet bar, of course that's what their turning releve is gonna be.
47:20
SPEAKER_03: But it or you know, I I mean, I don't know.
47:23
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what's happening, but that's the only thing I can assume because like that's what I see on stage.
47:27
SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, okay, well, we gotta get into ballet class, we gotta build our ankle strengths, we've got to make sure that we're actually self-correcting ourselves, gotta make sure teachers are teaching the importance of fully articulated feet, because that's gonna come in into play when we're doing roles on the ground and we need to step up off the floor to a ball heel.
47:42
SPEAKER_03: Or if we want to, you know, all of it, it it all connects, but I don't think that people are connecting the dots as as frequently.
47:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
47:51
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I guess we should, if we're talking about just like your general pirouette in a passe, what about the passe?
47:56
SPEAKER_04: Like I feel like I see like some pretty sad pases sometimes and they're low and they're not high and they're not supported, and the foot's just out dangling somewhere.
48:03
SPEAKER_04: You know, how much of that uh position goes into a successful pirouette?
48:08
SPEAKER_02: I completely agree that there's a lot of sad passes out there.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: And I actually, this is one of the things that I struggle with getting kids to do this in our own studio.
48:18
SPEAKER_02: Like I am like frequently like your knee needs to be in line with your hip.
48:21
SPEAKER_02: Like lift and like I even do the things like you put the cookie on the thigh, and like if the cookie doesn't fall, you get to eat it.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm doing all the tricks, we're not above bribery, forget about it.
48:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I'm not above bribery.
48:33
SPEAKER_02: Literally, I do the cookie test every year, like you know, so I just I I agree that it's been a struggle, and I think a lot of it is hamstring strength and just the ability to like even be able to tuck your foot up and hold it.
48:45
SPEAKER_02: And I think also like people's mobility is just different.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: That has been a struggle for me though, too.
48:51
SPEAKER_02: And I I like, you know, you you tell them to lift the knee and like think of like right there and connecting and gluing it and not sickling the foot in passe.
48:59
SPEAKER_02: I actually, as a like as a studio, I am finding that we have more harder time with that than even like the releve and the supporting leg.
49:09
SPEAKER_02: Like, I am that is one of the things that I'm constantly harping on and like connect the ankle and pointing the foot in passe.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: And some people crunch their toes in passe.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: That's a pet peeve of mine.
49:18
SPEAKER_02: So like they're crunching the toes, but the ankle's not stretched.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, flat foot and claw foot.
49:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Instead of it like yeah.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh I yeah.
49:31
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, that's something that we're always working on.
49:33
SPEAKER_02: And like I think balances and you know, hamstrings sometimes we'll do like the hamstring curls like in passe.
49:39
SPEAKER_02: So like you try to bring the heel in towards the booty.
49:41
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
49:42
SPEAKER_02: You know, like curl it in, and we do stuff like that too, but I think just kind of reiterating the corrections.
49:48
SPEAKER_02: I was just getting out of my seniors about it like on Monday, yesterday.
49:52
SPEAKER_02: I was like, that passe, you know.
49:54
SPEAKER_02: So I I think just continuing to correct it.
49:57
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, if anyone, I guess, has a secret, DM me and let me know, right?
50:01
SPEAKER_02: We're trying to make everyone's passe nice and high ourselves.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: So I actually start passe from a bevel.
50:10
SPEAKER_02: Like, I love that.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: I uh at least that's helping due to a bevel, too.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: So like this is it's all a progression, right?
50:17
SPEAKER_01: It's all a stacking system here.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: It's a scaffolding.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: So like I don't let you show me a passe until you show me a really fierce bevel.
50:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: Like we're talking connected.
50:28
SPEAKER_01: Like the heel has to be attached in the bevel before it slides up to parallel coupe before it slides all the way up to a passe.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: So the heel has to be attached to the leg the entire way up your leg.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: If you can't show it to me at one at every or one of those stages, you have to go back to like reintroducing it again, feeling the heel attachment.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: Because perception is reality when it comes to judging dancers on stage.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, let's be realistic.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: Your your toe could be at your knee and your foot could not be sickled, but because your toe is only at your knee in a passe, it appears to be sickled.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: That's like why, like, even if they're saying I'm not sickling my foot, well, it looks sickled to me because your heel isn't connected.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: So attach your heel to your leg.
51:14
SPEAKER_01: So that is one of my pet peeves, is when the heel is not connected in a bevel.
51:19
SPEAKER_01: If if you show me pictures of your kids with and they're standing in a sickled bevel, I can guarantee you that they probably have sickled bosses up in their like like up in the pirouette.
51:29
SPEAKER_01: So it starts at the ground, it starts at a bevel.
51:32
SPEAKER_04: It starts at the bevel.
51:33
SPEAKER_04: I love it.
51:34
SPEAKER_04: That's amazing.
51:34
SPEAKER_03: It does.
51:35
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I wish I saw better bevels across the board from everybody.
51:38
SPEAKER_03: I want to see a winged foot.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: I want to see a four jazz level and hold four counts of a bevel, you'd be shocked at how many kids can't count four and four.
51:46
SPEAKER_01: Count to eight, or just stand still.
51:48
SPEAKER_02: Four kids.
51:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: We're clapping to the music with my babies and they're they're all over the place.
51:56
SPEAKER_02: Like what?
51:58
SPEAKER_04: It's hard.
51:58
SPEAKER_03: Dance is hard.
51:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes, dance is so hard.
52:01
SPEAKER_03: It's so hard.
52:02
SPEAKER_03: I feel like that with the actual passe position, I see a lot of, like we said, sad pases in in parallel passe that get into that little in-between world of a high passe versus a coupe.
52:15
SPEAKER_03: And then I'm like, but there's flamingos too.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: Like flamingos out the back.
52:19
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, and it sticks out the back.
52:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's true.
52:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's a lot of things we see.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
52:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, where it's just disconnected.
52:27
SPEAKER_03: And then there's a lot of times where I see dancers try to do a turned out pirouette, but they don't have the rotation to do a turned out pirouette.
52:35
SPEAKER_03: Like they actually don't practice like proper rotation probably at ballet.
52:39
SPEAKER_03: So then their pelvis is tipping forward and the alignment is all completely off, but their knees like living in the in between of parallel and turned out.
52:47
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, so what are we going for here?
52:49
SPEAKER_03: Like I have, and also because their prep was who knows what, I still have no clue what we're going for.
52:56
SPEAKER_03: Like, and then I start having to ask questions.
52:58
SPEAKER_03: And I'm speaking like from the judge's perspective.
53:00
SPEAKER_03: And like you never want your judge to be questioning what you're doing.
53:04
SPEAKER_03: Your judge should know exactly what you're going for.
53:07
SPEAKER_03: So if I already don't know based on your prep if you're gonna be turned out or parallel, that's already out the window.
53:13
SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay, let's see what comes next.
53:15
SPEAKER_03: Then it's living in this in-between position.
53:17
SPEAKER_03: Then I'm just I can't even correct your your technique on the execution because I'm just wondering what we were going for.
53:24
SPEAKER_03: Like, so that's that's my that's a big problem for me because I want to see more c distinct clarification and separation of a parallel versus a turnout pirouette pick uh positioning um in the working leg.
53:37
SPEAKER_03: And that's getting a little bit lost, and I think it's due to lack of ballet training and then improper prep preparations and like getting that pelvis properly prepped as well, you know, because that's kind of where we started at the beginning is making sure that pelvis is properly prepped because it's preparation for a reason, but just kind of fumble through it and then it's just living in mystery world.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: I also find it it's important for dancers of all like of all feel especially dancers who want to be employable.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: We need to train these kids to not just like compete only jazz, lyrical, and contemporary and tap and hip-hop, but like actually compete and perform ballet too.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: Like there's a reason why like we need to have like at least ballet experience.
54:24
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to love like ballet and want to be a ballet dancer, but you need to know how to perform it and how to compete it too.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: Like these are good training opportunities and good experiences to create that well-rounded and employable human that we want to see.
54:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we actually do a nutcracker every year, and I think that that and we like hire um the Butler Ballet Boys to like partner our girls so they get like a real partnering experience.
54:50
SPEAKER_02: And like I think that has been so crucial to our dancer's training because you're gonna take class more seriously, like when you know you have like a performance coming up.
55:00
SPEAKER_02: Like it's just natural.
55:01
SPEAKER_02: Like you kind of get into this mission mode and you're like, oh my god, I gotta work really hard.
55:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, I got this, I have to do this, you know, and you have a real thing that's kind of looming in the background that you're working towards.
55:11
SPEAKER_02: And also like it's been like a like every year kids are like, I really wanna be like Snow Queen.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: I really want to be like Chinese, like they have goals and they it helps motivate them for ballet class because they have these real goals and dreams in a ballet sense.
55:27
SPEAKER_02: I feel like a lot of studios, like if you ask the kids their like goals and dreams, like none of them would include ballet.
55:33
SPEAKER_02: And like it should like you should have a ballet goal, a ballet dream.
55:36
SPEAKER_02: And like I think the nutcracker, and we also do YEGP, but I actually think and YEGP has been great for us too, being able to do variations, but I think the kids are more driven and have goals because that we do the nutcracker like with ballet.
55:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
55:51
SPEAKER_01: That's I had the extreme pleasure and honor of judging your your dancers, your expressions kids years back at a next star.
56:01
SPEAKER_01: And I was gushing the entire time and like was obsessed with basically everybody and everything because the costuming, the choreography, but their technique reigned supreme the entire weekend, which is why, at least in my opinion, everybody like you you swept, like it was a clean sweep, and it was so well deserved.
56:22
SPEAKER_01: Like the relevaes were red bottom releves because your kids are in class.
56:27
SPEAKER_01: That's and you can tell, and that's what I was like I I should have been complimentary on your tapes.
56:32
SPEAKER_01: I know I was.
56:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes, but I'm sure you were is good.
56:36
SPEAKER_01: It's not just you're rehearsing this, you're training this way.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: So judges can tell.
56:42
SPEAKER_03: Judges can tell.
56:43
SPEAKER_03: You know, we can tell if you are actually training regularly or if it's just a well-rehearsed routine.
56:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
56:49
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry about it.
56:50
SPEAKER_03: As much as like people don't want to hear that.
56:52
SPEAKER_03: I can tell so much about you in the first 10 seconds of your dance.
56:56
SPEAKER_03: You haven't even done anything, and I can tell all of the technical flaws.
57:01
SPEAKER_02: I always say that.
57:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, they know from like the moment you like walk on stage.
57:05
SPEAKER_02: Walk on stage.
57:06
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you and then stand in a bubble for 10 seconds.
57:09
SPEAKER_03: Walk on stage is and if it's singled, I already have a first impression.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: Right.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: It's very rare that I go higher than lower, higher or lower than my first impression.
57:19
SPEAKER_01: Nine times out of ten, when I am judging, I have a score within 10 seconds.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: Like your music doesn't even have to start.
57:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
57:27
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
57:27
SPEAKER_04: Just judge you on that 10 second stand.
57:29
SPEAKER_04: First impression.
57:30
SPEAKER_02: I actually had a professor say once, and I feel like it was a quote from someone else, but I don't know exactly.
57:37
SPEAKER_02: But I had a professor say once, like, I can tell everything I need to know about a dancer from the way they land a pirouette and the way they roll on the floor.
57:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:44
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh yeah.
57:46
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know what I'm saying?
57:47
SPEAKER_02: The way they finish their turn and then, oh my God, rolling on the floor.
57:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, just you can like learn everything just from those two things.
57:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:54
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
57:54
SPEAKER_04: Back to our conversation about, you know, bringing in choreographers, you we need to be training dancers to do what is asked of them.
58:02
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
58:03
SPEAKER_04: We also need to be making sure that in the context of what we are doing, what we are doing makes sense.
58:09
SPEAKER_04: So, Courtney, you said in a competition, I need to I need to be able to name what you're doing in order to do my job.
58:16
SPEAKER_04: So at YAGP, if I was lucky enough to judge YAGP, those are ballet variations in the ballet category.
58:23
SPEAKER_04: That's a turned out fourth position into a pirouette.
58:26
SPEAKER_04: The end, I know what that is.
58:28
SPEAKER_04: I can name it, you did it or you didn't do it.
58:30
SPEAKER_03: Right.
58:30
SPEAKER_04: That makes my job easy.
58:32
SPEAKER_04: But if we're over here in regular dance competition land, where ex-choreographer came in and said, We're gonna do this really cool turn, because you know, we're really cool choreographers, and I'm not gonna say anything, do this.
58:42
SPEAKER_04: Okay, well, that makes my job exponentially harder.
58:45
SPEAKER_04: If number one, choreographer may or may not have, because this is an artist who said, do this amazing turn, and that's all you got.
58:53
SPEAKER_04: Okay, well then remember in context, I'm over here, never having seen your dance before, and you are giving me this turn that is probably kind of ambiguous on purpose.
59:03
SPEAKER_04: But then when I give you a slightly lower score, like, do you see what I mean?
59:07
SPEAKER_04: I I I can't name it because I don't know what it actually was supposed to be if it wasn't this or that.
59:13
SPEAKER_01: And was it a turn or a spin?
59:15
SPEAKER_01: Like spinning, just thing to remember for the thing.
59:18
SPEAKER_01: Like we have those modern content moments now where it's like super, super abstract and we're in socks and we're sitting and like and it's controlled still and it's supported.
59:29
SPEAKER_01: And if it was really good, like I can probably and like you know, that extending, and I'm like, okay, like way to go.
59:37
SPEAKER_01: Just track track those ACLs girl.
59:42
SPEAKER_04: So I think it's just remembering the context in which we are doing something when you're thinking about how to do a piece of choreographer, a piece of choreography or a skill.
59:51
SPEAKER_04: Just keep in the back of your mind who's looking at this, what's the end goal?
59:55
SPEAKER_04: Right.
59:56
SPEAKER_04: Because if your end goal is just art, do you boo.
59:58
SPEAKER_04: Go ahead, do whatever you want, because I'm not here to judge that.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_04: But if your goal is to win a competition, somebody like judge number two over here is gonna say, I'd really rather have your prep be this for that.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_04: And that's just the risk you run with doing something that's outside of the quote unquote norm.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_04: So I just think that's something important.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_04: I think that really depends on your venue.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_02: Because we have noticed, because we've transitioned into conventions and dances will win at like other competitions and then we'll go to conventions and they will not.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
1:00:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_02: And I think that at conventions, and usually like those are the choreographers we're bringing in.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_02: They're the convention teachers for the most part.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_02: Those convention teachers, which are usually on the judging panel, they are more artistic and they value seeing something new, exciting.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, a lot of them, like, I mean, you guys are the same way.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_02: You see so much dance, you consume so much dance that you almost would rather see something that's more exciting and different.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes for them, when you're seeing also everyone that's talented.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_02: Like when we went to the dance awards, like I'm not kidding you, you do not see a bad dance on the stage.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
1:01:08
SPEAKER_02: So when everyone's good and everyone does know how to prop do a proper pirouette in that setting, how do you see something that's more interesting and uh you know abstract, actually they appreciate it and they really like it.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_01: So I think without the the the turns inside, exactly, right?
1:01:26
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, most of them don't have turns, yeah.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_02: So I think it kind of definitely depends on your venue and totally who you're trying to please, essentially.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_01: And part of that is knowing your audience, which is the through a theater, like know who your audience is and who you're catering to.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_02: And know what you want to get out of the experience.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think for like even for most of the choreographers we bring in, it's like I think this is also a lot of studios need to kind of have this approach, in my opinion, is like you're trying to build connections for your kids to help them, you know what I'm saying?
1:01:58
SPEAKER_02: And and even just to learn and have and some people connect with certain choreographers, and it's so great.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_02: And having our soloists do solos from different people has been so great too, because for the longest time everything just looked the same because it was the same three people choreographing them, right?
1:02:14
SPEAKER_02: You know, and I can I can only be so creative, you know.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_02: So it's been like great having the kids like build connections and you know, learn to move in different ways.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_02: And like you said, the goal might not be winning, it might just be getting this experience, doing something different, trying something new, you know, that kind of thing.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_03: I think that's why a lot of dancers are in the contemporary category because they can get away with all of this way easier than if they were in lyrical or jazz.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's like it's artistic and it's the style and it's the fusion and whatever, and they make excuses and then but like again, like the that one like very abstract uh pirouette you were talking about, Drew, where you're they're like the dancers are in socks and they're just spinning around.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_03: I can still tell, like I can tell when they have the foundational technique to do that properly.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna heal forward and they're yeah, and they're rapping.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_01: Hell they promenade in ballet class.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, like I know a lot about them.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm not thinking like, oh man, I wish you weren't spinning.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_03: Because if it's a smart choreographer, they sh they should showcase both in that three minutes.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_03: They should show me that this dancer knows how to find a full releve and knows how to have a clean, controlled pirouette in some way.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_03: And then we can change it up and be abstract and do a spin and pull off our leg and suspend.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_03: Like, show me the variety and then I'm okay with it.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_03: Because as a judge, no matter what, I just need to know that you know how to do it properly first.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_03: And if you're just doing it wrong the whole time, then I don't even then I'm just sitting there questioning, well, I don't even know if you know how to find a full relevant.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_03: I don't even know if you know how to find a clean position, you know.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_03: So you never want the judge to question it.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_03: But I think that with contemporary, that's where the lines are blurred so much that people think they can get away with everything.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_03: And eat but like then it transitions into jazz, and I'm like, but can you at least give me a clean prep in jazz?
1:04:08
SPEAKER_03: Like, please.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_03: You know it has to be a choice, not an accident.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know intentional choice.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
1:04:22
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1:05:21
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1:05:26
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1:05:36
SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite things to say is like, I don't need to see you keep piroeding.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_01: I'd rather see you balance.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_01: Like I'd rather see you hold a four count, like fourth position relevant in like a classic lyrical moment or like actually take like a degache line and then like from a flat foot go to a full releve.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you if you can turn or not.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_01: But my Like so often we forget that like that can also help set our dancers up for success, too.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_01: It's actually like sneakily choreograph a balance where they are forced to get on their leg at the beginning of a routine.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_01: And then it's like easier, they can breathe once that balance is over and they know they're on their leg for the rest of their their you know, their their artistic journey through their little performance piece, you know.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_03: So I want to segue into what you hinted at earlier, Lisa, which was how you finish a pirouette and your what your professor said.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_03: Because we've talked about the prep, we've talked about the position, now we need to talk about the end.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_03: So tell me some of I and Drew, I think you hinted at that you like your dancers to finish their pirouette up.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_03: So um, and I agree.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_03: And I'd love to hear some other variations that we use or see.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_03: Um, I know one that I that I see often nowadays in training that I don't love, but I want to hear what y'all say first.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_03: So tell tell me more about the finish.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_02: I will frequently just say like lift before you land.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_02: And one of my like biggest pet peeves is actually when you like hop as you land.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I'm talking about?
1:07:06
SPEAKER_02: So they turn and then they do like a little baby chug before they step out of it.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_02: So like I'm always talking about like push down to the floor, lift out of the head, lift and then step out of it.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_02: We sometimes land in like a second position relevant, but a lot of times we just kind of step out of it.
1:07:21
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we'll go back to our prep.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes I'll like do um turns like we'll like keep repeating them.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
1:07:28
SPEAKER_02: So you'll like turn, go back to your prep, turn, go back to your prep.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_02: So we'll do that sometimes too.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_02: But I am like definitely in the school of thought the same as Drew is that like there needs to be a balance.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_02: There has to be a lift.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_02: Cause then it looks like, like I said earlier, a choice, not an accident that the turn was ending.
1:07:43
SPEAKER_02: Like you just decided like three was enough of today.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, like it's not that you were falling out.
1:07:48
SPEAKER_02: Like it was this was the turn, this is the completion.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_02: And I also think we try to teach our kids to like be smart turners and know your limit and know when the spots kind of coming to a conclusion and don't try to force around one more rotation.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_02: It's better to kind of call it safe and end a little bit earlier, do a nice lift and then finish clean.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_01: So to like kind of piggyback like with that for a second, one of the my favorite things that I make my dancers do uh is I make them pirouette from their knee and back to their knee.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_01: And then I will also make them pirouette without a plie at all.
1:08:23
SPEAKER_01: You have to go from fourth position parallel up to like their their parallel passe with their pirouette and back to fourth position parallel in a hot like in releve.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_01: Like they're not coming down at all.
1:08:35
SPEAKER_01: So like it forces the kids to either one, when they're kneeling, be in their deepest demi-plie with their front leg as possible.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_01: But the like the releve action, there's zero plie at all there.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_01: So like make them want their plie and makes them realize how much like they can actually get out of the floor.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_01: So sometimes you have to take away their preparation in order for them to like appreciate it more and do it.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_01: As far as the finish goes, I let just like Lisa, I make them do everything.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_01: Like whatever I can think of to change it up, to give it some variation.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_01: But like oftentimes, like to me, it just should finish in a like ideally in a perfect world, pirouettes finished, like still in the passe in a relevant balance.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_01: Like and then I've I'm still waiting for I'm I'm still deciding what I want next.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_01: Just stay there.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_01: Like that's what I want to see, and like that's our ultimate goal.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_01: But uh oftentimes I'll leave them in their passe and have them plie at the end with their arms out.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's nice.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_01: Instead of letting them drop their leg back to the floor, I'll make them do that double pirouette and then finish, and then they have to hold like for an eight count just with their arms in second with their leg in a passe in plie.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_01: So like that that has started to eliminate the foot dropping to the floor as fast.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I feel like that the prep that I see often now is that kickstand second position releve out of the pirouette.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_03: Like they fit even if they are suspending, but most of the time I feel like a lot of them aren't suspending out of that.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_03: If they know that that's where their leg is going to go after they just shoot that leg straight down and releve in arms in second, and they squeeze and they hold, and it I call it like the kickstand finish because I feel like that they just are thinking about the rotation and not the suspension because they know Well, your landing should yeah, and your landing really shouldn't be sharp.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_01: I call it Blair Witch Project.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: Like if it looks like Blair Witch.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's funny.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_02: But your blit your landing shouldn't be sharp, you know what I'm saying?
1:10:39
SPEAKER_02: Unless it's like corporate control choice.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_02: But like in class, your landing should be smooth and controlled and like soft.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_02: So I agree, like there should be no like sharp, aggressive, like push your foot to the floor, snap your arms out.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_02: Like that's really not, you know, your turn should grow and stretch and keep moving until it absolutely can't anymore, and then it finishes, you know.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's like goes back to the disconnection of timing it out, understanding our momentum, how much time are we filling, how many rotations are we agreeing to in our brain before we even take off.
1:11:09
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'm going for two here.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_03: I know when I need to I know when I need to finish.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_03: Like I think that everyone's just going off like doing free-for-all rotations that are completely disconnected to the music.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, same thing applies even to turns in Alice Kant and turn sequences that we see at competition.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_03: Like, I was always taught that the turns have to be matching the musicality.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_03: So we it's not just like down up, down, up, down, up, like whatever timing.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_03: If the music is this, we are gonna pli ye relevant, pli yay relevant.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_03: It has like connected to the music, and it's and instead it feels like we're like turning like a top where we're just gaining momentum, momentum, momentum, and there's musicality everywhere else in the dance, but then we just shut off the the tempo and the musicality for our turn sequence to just turn like crazy.
1:11:53
SPEAKER_03: So, like, you know, there's there's those disconnections there, and then I think with the finish, it should, I do agree, I think it should end up so we can then go wherever we want to go.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_03: If the teacher wants you to go straight down, if the teacher wants you to step in second, if the teacher wants that foot to go back to prep, if the teacher wants you to develop pay out of it, if the teacher wants you to plie in passe to leap out of it.
1:12:14
SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's so many choices on where we can go out of our pirouette, but if we're just drilling one one way to remove that leg from passe, then they're never gonna be able to transition.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_03: And then when you do bring those guest choreographers in, then the guest choreographer is gonna be like, Well, you don't know how to transition out of this pirouette.
1:12:31
SPEAKER_03: What like what am I supposed to do?
1:12:33
SPEAKER_03: Oh, we can only do this second position kickstand?
1:12:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, variations of e here, uh experience, yeah, lots of different things.
1:12:43
SPEAKER_02: I'm not a fan of the super fast turns.
1:12:46
SPEAKER_02: Like, this is just my personal it's I'm talking about more second turns.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_02: Like I just don't really love them, kind of talking about going with the music, and I feel like those have been getting increasingly popular.
1:12:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I feel like the dancers gain so much momentum that there's quite literally no hope to have any sort of control on your pirouette.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_02: It's true.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's so true.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_03: They just kind of flop out of it and then everyone's just cheering and screaming because they just spun so quickly.
1:13:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes, or they're praying, they're just praying.
1:13:13
SPEAKER_01: They're they're kissing it up to Jesus at that point.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_01: They are praying.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_02: I'm watching it, I'm like, oh god.
1:13:18
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm going down.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited when I see like a well-executed turn sequence with a clean finish.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_03: Like you have so much momentum.
1:13:27
SPEAKER_03: You just did all like a double float and you did a this and you did a that.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_03: And like, oh, what about fute turns?
1:13:32
SPEAKER_03: Which we never see those on stage anymore.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_03: I love a fuente turn.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_03: Like, I miss a fuerte turn, but like if you can if you have that much control in your turns in Alice Accon, you should be able to pull in to a quad.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_03: You should be able to because you've gained momentum, your center is there, your rotation is there, everything you've set yourself up to be able to have multiple rotations, but you don't care about the finish.
1:13:55
SPEAKER_03: You just care about how fast you're turning.
1:13:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:13:57
SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes the the final turn in Alisicone has to be treated differently than every other of the turns in order, if you're gonna pull in for more pirouettes out of it.
1:14:09
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're like coming in from grand pirouette all of Sicone, your final grand pirouette has to be treated and like uh like like executed a little differently in order to have the control to maintain and what you're trying to sustain with the pirouette coming out of that.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of dancers they get caught up and they they want to clap and applaud each other for going really fast, but then they do just kind of like fizzle out, so to speak.
1:14:35
SPEAKER_01: Like the the pirouette actually isn't solid.
1:14:38
SPEAKER_01: You just did a whole bunch of fast turns in second, and then you like barely could shed A out of it.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_02: And actually the relevant in second turns is one of my biggest pet peeps, too.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like you rarely see a high relevant second turns, I think it's because they're prioritizing the speed.
1:14:52
SPEAKER_02: Like, I really feel like that's like been a thing within the past like five years that I'm just like, you can't even go to releve because it's so fast.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_03: It's so fast, and it's not like it should be turned out.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_03: This every time you play an Oscar needs to be turned out.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_03: The heel is sometimes it they're over-rotating and the heel is parallel when if you like press pause on the video, the heel is parallel.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_01: Yes, standing leg totally parallel, yeah.
1:15:15
SPEAKER_01: Like support or like working leg is totally turned out.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_01: And like pointed and straight, but that's that standing leg hip alignment.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't understand how you can even get in that position.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_03: Like, my teachers would never let me go in a position like that, let alone turn for my life like that.
1:15:32
SPEAKER_03: So it's just the cleanliness of the technique.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_03: It goes back to that foundation and and the ballet training that we continue to talk about.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_03: Okay, final question.
1:15:40
SPEAKER_03: We hinted at it.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_03: The one shoe phenomenon.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_03: I never see it.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_02: You don't I've literally I have never seen, and I am not kidding you, I have never seen in all my years at a competition someone actually go on stage with one shoe.
1:15:55
SPEAKER_02: I have seen it online.
1:15:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes, but I have with my own eyeballs never seen it on stage.
1:16:00
SPEAKER_02: So I guess in Indiana, it's terrible and you shouldn't do it.
1:16:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes, ew, David.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_01: Not one shoe.
1:16:08
SPEAKER_02: You look bizarre.
1:16:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it looks so bizarre.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_03: And I consider a turner or a pirouette or whatever those things are called.
1:16:15
SPEAKER_03: I consider them a shoe.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_03: Like that is footwear.
1:16:19
SPEAKER_03: It is something on your foot.
1:16:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_03: It is uh like I own sometimes, you know, the little like foot thong things that kind of go in between your toes that give you a little, yeah.
1:16:30
SPEAKER_03: Like that one's not covering your toes, so it looks a little bit more discreet, like especially if you pancake it to match your skin tone or whatever, it gives you a little bit of you know, like it gives you a little bit of fabric underneath the ball of your foot.
1:16:42
SPEAKER_03: And if you need that, I probably won't even notice that you're wearing one.
1:16:45
SPEAKER_03: But when you have one that's covering your actual toes, on one foot, I can tell.
1:16:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you better be wearing two shoes or no shoes.
1:16:53
SPEAKER_01: You better be wearing two of those, or Suzanne Seter will provide salt and pepper for you to eat the other one.
1:16:58
SPEAKER_01: Like uh like we need to, I don't care what shoes you're wearing, just give me two of them.
1:17:03
SPEAKER_01: Because like your hip your hip and knee alignment does matter.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're only standing on one shoe on one side and you're barefoot on the other, your actual hips and knees are now not like actually tracking the same.
1:17:16
SPEAKER_01: That little bit of fabric actually does make a bit of difference.
1:17:18
SPEAKER_01: You're right.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_01: People need to like think about like injury preventation.
1:17:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, would you walk outside with only like one rain boot?
1:17:25
SPEAKER_03: But but then they'll say, Well, I need that one shoe off to do my aerial.
1:17:30
SPEAKER_03: And that's for safety purposes.
1:17:33
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:17:33
SPEAKER_03: It's it is a boo-hoo.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_03: It's to me, it's either you come on stage prepared, presentationally prepared for stage, you spend$700 on that Rhinestone costume and you think one shoe is appropriate.
1:17:43
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely not.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_03: It immediately is a for horrible first impression.
1:17:47
SPEAKER_03: Like we've talked about first impressions on this episode.
1:17:49
SPEAKER_03: We already know you're only gonna turn on that side.
1:17:52
SPEAKER_03: I already know you're probably not gonna do a Tombe inside turn on your right standing leg because you have the the shoe on the left.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_01: So there's only bring up the lap of inside pirouettes, we see.
1:18:02
SPEAKER_01: So I miss an inside pirouette.
1:18:05
SPEAKER_03: You know, we we already know what's gonna come.
1:18:07
SPEAKER_03: It looks unprofessional, it looks sloppy, unfinished.
1:18:10
SPEAKER_03: There's nothing about it that can ever defend why someone would think it's appropriate.
1:18:14
SPEAKER_03: And I think that the studios need to step in more and and actually enforce this because they are just as bad where they're like, well, we need to be able to do the the acro, and I care about safety for my dancers, then take out the acro.
1:18:27
SPEAKER_03: If your dancer can't do the acro with two shoes on, then they can't do the acro.
1:18:31
SPEAKER_03: Sorry about it.
1:18:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if they can't do it with two shoes on, then they are not advanced enough to even be doing that space.
1:18:36
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
1:18:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:18:38
SPEAKER_03: And then if you want the aesthetic of bare feet, then learn how to turn and bare feet and build calluses.
1:18:42
SPEAKER_01: Because there are people who do it very well.
1:18:44
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:18:44
SPEAKER_02: It's possible.
1:18:45
SPEAKER_01: We do it all the time now.
1:18:47
SPEAKER_02: Like literally all the time.
1:18:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:18:50
SPEAKER_02: We only wear jazz shoes for lyrical, because that's one thing that you know we've kind of had to adapt and stuff.
1:18:55
SPEAKER_02: And some competitions and conventions are like pretty kind of particular about your footwear if it doesn't match.
1:19:01
SPEAKER_02: If it doesn't mat like, I think they're fine with jazz shoes when it's like classic jazz and classic lyrical, but I don't think they really want to see it in anything else.
1:19:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_02: So if you're trying to turn in something else, like you better be able to do it barefoot.
1:19:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:19:16
unknown: Yeah.
1:19:16
SPEAKER_01: Build up those calluses.
1:19:18
SPEAKER_03: But that's why we see a lot of socks now.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_03: We see a lot of socks now because it's trendy and also it allows dancers to turn.
1:19:24
SPEAKER_03: But like I don't I personally I don't want to see a sock and lyrical.
1:19:27
SPEAKER_03: Like, that's not what I think of lyrical dance.
1:19:29
SPEAKER_03: I think of lyrical dance as a jazz shoe or a lyrical style shoe, but a sock is contemporary dance.
1:19:34
SPEAKER_03: And also can a sock is only I only want to see dancers like teen and over in socks, unless you're like extremely advanced juniors and minis.
1:19:44
SPEAKER_03: But most of the time the socks, like the dancers don't understand how to still connect to the floor and stay grounded, and the socks are actually restricting them versus enhancing them.
1:19:53
SPEAKER_03: And then they're slip slide and like ice skaters on stage.
1:19:55
SPEAKER_03: So, you know.
1:19:56
SPEAKER_02: And I personally think it needs to be utilized in the choreography.
1:19:59
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I see a lot of people um in socks and they're not even utilizing the socks.
1:20:05
SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, I don't was this what's the purpose?
1:20:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's the purpose?
1:20:10
SPEAKER_01: If we're not actually having a slide in the dance, why are you wearing the sock?
1:20:13
SPEAKER_01: It's exactly where I'm at with you as well.
1:20:15
SPEAKER_01: Please utilize like your costume choices appropriately for whatever you're presenting, no matter what genre or category.
1:20:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, please wear two shoes.
1:20:24
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we have two shoes.
1:20:26
SPEAKER_01: Yes, to wear two socks, not one.
1:20:29
SPEAKER_02: I've never seen it though.
1:20:31
SPEAKER_02: So I guess you just need to come watch how no, I've I've literally never seen it.
1:20:36
SPEAKER_03: I am shocked, Lisa.
1:20:37
SPEAKER_03: It's because you guys have set the example.
1:20:39
SPEAKER_03: That's why.
1:20:39
SPEAKER_03: You guys have set the example in your area that like this is what you should be doing, everyone, and then everyone's following suit.
1:20:45
SPEAKER_03: Whereas, like, I'm telling you, when I travel every single weekend, and luckily now I'm a teacher judge on whenever I am judging.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_03: So now I can rip the teachers a new one when I see a dancer come out on stage with one shoe.
1:20:57
SPEAKER_03: I'll always tell the dancer too, if I'm a regular judge.
1:20:59
SPEAKER_03: But when I'm talking to the teachers, I'm like, teachers, we gotta do better.
1:21:02
SPEAKER_03: We gotta make sure that we're not coming out on stage with one shoe.
1:21:04
SPEAKER_03: And then I uh I take a point off.
1:21:06
SPEAKER_03: And people can get mad, I don't care.
1:21:08
SPEAKER_03: I take a point off and I defend why I took a point off.
1:21:10
SPEAKER_03: And I said next time you better have two shoes on, and then you get that point back, you know?
1:21:13
SPEAKER_03: Like, it's the only way it's gonna, it's gonna change because you know it's just not we have to be stage ready.
1:21:19
SPEAKER_03: And again, knowing the venue, knowing the who we're performing for, you're taking a risk with your judging panel if you're coming out with one shoe because there might be someone that doesn't like it.
1:21:28
SPEAKER_02: It's just so wild to me because you would literally never see a professional dancer with one shoe on it.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_01: It is entirely unlikely.
1:21:37
SPEAKER_03: Like unless it's like a very like abstract avant-garde like piece of art where like I don't know.
1:21:42
SPEAKER_02: Like they have like one, they have one pant leg and that one foot has the shoe, and the other foot the other leg doesn't have a pant leg.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_02: That's like the only excuse.
1:21:50
SPEAKER_02: But I've never seen like oh my god, yeah.
1:21:52
SPEAKER_02: No, that's uh I've never seen it.
1:21:54
SPEAKER_02: So if I ever see it, I'll let you guys know.
1:21:56
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I I feel blessed that I've never had to witness that.
1:22:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm so impressed.
1:22:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:22:02
SPEAKER_01: You weren't lucky, consider yourself the lovely one.
1:22:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes.
1:22:06
SPEAKER_02: Also, I just I meant to mention this and I forgot to, but at Expressions, we do have a technique intensive over the summer.
1:22:12
SPEAKER_02: And Carla also does like a little thing while they're for teachers, and a lot of teachers love coming and like learning our exercises that we do.
1:22:20
SPEAKER_02: So just something like if you want to be able to take that back to your home studios, you can have your kids go too.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_02: But I a lot of teachers love coming and kind of seeing the training and the kind of the exercises that help you.
1:22:32
SPEAKER_02: But like we said, the most important thing is class, but still exercises and things can help too.
1:22:37
SPEAKER_03: So well, y'all, this was such a great chat.
1:22:40
SPEAKER_03: I learned a lot about different preferences for pirouettes, what works for y'all.
1:22:44
SPEAKER_03: We talked about things we love to see, things we don't want to see.
1:22:47
SPEAKER_03: And hopefully all of our listeners out there learned a thing or two about how to prep for our pirouettes, how to succeed at pirouettes, and what the judges are looking for on stage of competition.
1:22:57
SPEAKER_03: To our fabulous guests, Lisa and Drew, thank you so much for being here and joining us on Making the Impact.
1:23:03
SPEAKER_03: We love having you and sharing all of your insight and advice for the dance world.
1:23:07
SPEAKER_03: And how we always have our guests lead us out is with one final thought on the chat today, talking about pirouettes.
1:23:14
SPEAKER_03: So you can talk to whoever you want, dancers, studios, teachers, any final tips and tricks you want to share, whatever you'd like when it comes to perfecting your pirouettes.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much for having me.
1:23:26
SPEAKER_02: It's been so fun just to kind of just chat with other people in the dance world and kind of hear different things and different opinions.
1:23:32
SPEAKER_02: And I guess my final thought would just be like, you know, I think if every dance teacher just tries to use their best judgment and what works best for them and really caring for their dancers and helping them in the best way for like what their goals are, I think the dance world will be such a better place.
1:23:49
SPEAKER_02: And I think um if we we we could have some continuity at dance studios and just kind of everyone being on the same page, like I I feel like um even like myself growing up, it always felt like each dance teacher at a studio was kind of on their own mission.
1:24:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think something that I would love to see at studios in the future is just like every dance teacher being on the same page, the collective goal of like bringing the dancers to be the best they can be.
1:24:12
SPEAKER_02: So I think that if everyone does that, then we'll just have a world full of amazing dancers.
1:24:16
SPEAKER_02: We already kind of do, but like even better.
1:24:18
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:24:19
SPEAKER_01: Solving the world's problems.
1:24:20
SPEAKER_01: Lisa, you're the greatest.
1:24:21
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:24:23
SPEAKER_01: I guess I would just like to drive home.
1:24:25
SPEAKER_01: And first, first and foremost, thank you so much for having Lisa and I, Courtney.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_01: It's been such a pleasure.
1:24:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and getting to see Leslie again too and talk with her is always the greatest.
1:24:35
SPEAKER_01: But I would love to drive home to train both sides of pirouettes, like more than anything.
1:24:39
SPEAKER_01: I want to see train and perform both sides of pirouettes too.
1:24:45
SPEAKER_01: If you're gonna give me four on the right, can you get at least give me two on the left at some point?
1:24:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, like I don't need to see like the exact same combo on both sides of the body, but just show me that you have experience doing at least a double on the left.
1:24:58
SPEAKER_01: If you've got like six, seven, and eight on the right, you know?
1:25:02
SPEAKER_01: And I would love to see more like inside pirouettes with that as well, and more double and triple PK turns.
1:25:09
SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of people don't like don't go for more than just a double PK turn, but like I've been encouraging my kids more and more to work on triple PK turn because it one, it makes their doubles better, which is like the weirdest thing ever.
1:25:23
SPEAKER_01: But two, it's impressive when you're like able to rotate around three times going inwards, turned out, like I'm like, ooh, now I'm like really like seeing something here because it looks different, it looks eye-catching.
1:25:35
SPEAKER_01: So change up those pirouettes and give us lots of variations and give us lots of both sidedness.
1:25:41
SPEAKER_01: Give us duality of both sides.
1:25:46
SPEAKER_03: We hope you enjoyed our latest throwback episode from season five, Perfecting the Pirouette.
1:25:52
SPEAKER_03: Don't forget to follow our guests on Instagram.
1:25:54
SPEAKER_03: You can find Lisa at Lisa Curatolo Turffin and follow her studio Expressions Dance Center at Expressions.
1:26:02
SPEAKER_03: And Drew Fergus at Drew Dances.
1:26:05
SPEAKER_04: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
1:26:12
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1:26:18
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1:26:26
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1:26:29
SPEAKER_04: Stay tuned for more great episodes of Making the Impact, including a day in the life of a Broadway performer.