Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / 💥 Agentic AI and the End of Traditional IT (w/ Robb Wilson)

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💥 Agentic AI and the End of Traditional IT (w/ Robb Wilson) · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome it, change Makers to the Deck Show with Tim
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Flower and Tom McGrath. Let's get into it.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Hello, change Makers. We're in the two hundred to Tim,
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: we are a two something episode. We're in our third century,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: in our third century of podcasts, and you know, look,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: we had a few people point out to me, Tim
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Smart Alex that our listeners are but we're actually on
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: the like when we could two hundred episode, it was
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: it was our two hundred and third episode.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Somebody's counting other than us.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: We're so sorry everybody who's counting, who's counting quite so,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: But we've got it. We've got an excellent, an excellent
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: guest to kick off our third century, as you say, Tim. Today,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: we're joined by Rob Wilson, CEO and co founder of
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: one Reach dot ai, which is an award winning platform
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: pioneering enterprise grade conversational AI and automation. But we know
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Rob quite well for his sort of you know, his
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: writing and his thought leadership around one phrase. Rob uses
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: humor centric AI design. The co author of a fascinating
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: book called the Age of Invisible Machines, which, as much
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: as anything, has the most wonderful and appropriate title for
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: one of the dominant theme I feel the show.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: At the moment.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Welcome on Welcome on board, Rob Wilson, great to have you.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks, two hundred and three episodes. I'm feeling old,
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: you feel to go just looking at us? Just yeah,
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: just listening to how long you guys have been doing this?
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: You imaginer?
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Could you maybe the best place to start would be
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: if you could define that for us and maybe explain
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: the broader significance of of something which is obviously so
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: pivotal to the age that we live in, which is
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: the conversational interface. What do you what do you embody
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: connected to the to the agentic runtime concept.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm super guilty all the time of hating that
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: we anthropomorphize the stuff and then doing it to help
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: make things more understandable to people. So I'm going to
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: do it again. If you think of a run time
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: for agents, A lot of people can relate to the
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: idea that if they need a place to work, just
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: like people need a place to work, they need tools
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: to work with, just like we need a desktop and
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: tools to work with, and that they're as good as
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: the tools they have and the knowledge that they're supplied
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: within that within that workplace, right, So that's kind of
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: what it is. But then, of course it completely breaks
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: that paradigm when you realize that these things are self replicating,
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: that they're self learning, that they work twenty four to seven,
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: and that they can, you know, never forget anything, read
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: things instantaneously. So then you start creating all the nuances
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: which aren't so nuanced about how different they are from
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: people and you and you end up with a run
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: time that's not quite like our desktop.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Intriguing, and you know you've got the conversational interface. It's
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: significant features so so much in your work, and we're gonna,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I think, dive into it, and Tim's got a few
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: questions that sort of drill into it in a bit
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: more detail. But I was just interested almost in passing world.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Given the the the growing significance of that conversational interface,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: where does it leave for humble screen? I mean, we
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: have been.
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: As screen dominated issues now at the decade, right, we
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: can't even imagine life without screens, let alone tech, or
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: even we can't imagine technology without screens, let alone life
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: without screens.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Are we approaching a life without screens? Is a screw?
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: The definition or role of the screen just going to
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: fundamentally change.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: Are we entering the post screen world orbody? I don't know.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: I'm not like a futurist, but I I did grow
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: up with Marshall mccluan. I played in his front yard
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: and my mom meditated with his wife.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, so we're moving from a hot medium to
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: a cold meat to a cool medium.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: What are we?
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: What are we doing here?
• 4:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Well a lot of people don't know this about him
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: because he kind of kept this a secret because he
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: always claimed that he didn't have anything against media, that
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: he was neutral, but it wasn't really true if you
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: knew the backstory. And the backstory is he would sit
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: in his living room listening to his wife talking on
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: the telephone to her sister or other people, and like
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: completely tuned into what was going on in some other
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: town with people she didn't know for hours, and it
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: irritated him so bad, Like what that? He's like, what
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: is going on? What is happening?
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: Where is she right now?
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: She's not here with me, she's somewhere else? Where is she?
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna spend a bunch of time understanding this. It
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: from an irritation standpoint, not from not because he was
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: on the phone or wanted to use the phone, but
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: because he couldn't understand why she did and why she
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: wanted to and and that is sort of an unknown story. Uh.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: And and I think our yeah, and our screens are
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: just an extension like where was she where? Why wasn't
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: she there? Why was it more interesting to be in
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: that other place? And and and how convenient was it
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: that she didn't have to leave her house to get there?
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: And I don't think we're ever gonna not trans you know,
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: transport ourselves to other places in that convenient way until
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: we can like actually do in Star Trek where we
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: like move around instantaneously. And I don't think that having
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: more senses to being somewhere else is gonna is like
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: we're reduced that. You know, screens will become more high
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: fidelity potentially, but I think the screen is a super
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: convenient way for our eyes and our ears to go
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: somewhere else really fast. And so I think we'll always
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: have screens of different sizes, just more of them. I
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: think people talk about it going away, but there's just
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: gonna be different screens everywhere, in different sizes. I think.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, I have a hard time seeing them go away,
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: But I don't see them as phones that I think
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: that's a funny thing that we call our computer a phone.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: I thought I thought computers were gonna take over, but
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: it turns out phones.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: The humble phone. You know that that ties you a
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: lot more from martial material in listening to his wife
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: from the phone to where we are. Now, that's that
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: pretty incredible. I love that, And I'm gonna is there
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: anything else we can flesh out here? Because I think
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: you going on to be be a sort of agentic
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: conversational interface expert and inn of it you are, and
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: having that childhood and playing in Marshall mcluin's backyard feels
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: incredibly appropriate. Any any other influence or touch point there,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: but we we could, we could passed by on our
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: way to Tim's questions.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I think I find that his writing
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: like is still being understood today. It's fascinating. I think
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: one thing that I'll I'll just give you another point
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: on him that people don't know. Well, I'll give you two.
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: One is well yeah, one one media is the massage
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: right was actually a misspelling by accident, and then he
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: went along with it.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: He's like.
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: Meeting. So the you know, media is the massage, which
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: is how it's spelled. Like it was message right obviously,
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: but there was a misspelling and instead of correcting it,
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: he just went along with it. It's like massage like that.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: So that wasn't like intentional. And the other thing that
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: thinks super interesting is if we look at when he
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: wrote a book, right, his publisher was always like, no
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: one's going to read this, and he's like why, and
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: he said, well, because when you write textbooks, like there's
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: kind of a there was kind of a rule and
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: there still is. You can only make ten percent of
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: that textbook new ideas and the rest have to be
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: regurgitating old ideas or it's too much for people. And
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: so this was like just kind of a rule of
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: textbooks is ten percent new ideas, ninety percent old ideas
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: because people can't handle more than ten percent. And I
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: think we see now with the adoption of AI that
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: it can do so much more and that we're holding
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: it back. And it's because we're doing this like iterating
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: ten percent different from our old software just to keep
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: it familiar. And as you kind of go, as we
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: talk more today, we'll see like this software is really,
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: you know, one hundred percent different than the old software.
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: But when we see how it's being implemented in the
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: companies that are coming out in the solutions, each one
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: is like ten percent different.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: We put a button in here to summarize the conversation.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: You know, when why do we even have an interface?
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: So there's there's two more points for you. Love it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: Love it. So rob, let's bring it to life a
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: little bit. We'll start with a question around kind of
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: a hypothetical example. Give us an illustration and it can
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: be real or hypothetical of an organization where these agent
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: runtime environments could actually be profoundly transformational. Apply it to
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: kind of daily life in an example illustration for us.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: Okay, so the first thing is to just like realize
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: that you kind of go through a few things, right,
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: I think you have to kind of kind of go
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: through the evolution of machines and code for a second,
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: just to just to kind of mark where we are.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: So, in the early early days for software developers, they
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: liked and I was one of these. You sat there
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: looking at a screen with a blank cursor just blinking,
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: and you're like, Okay, write your application right from nothing.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: Everything you had to create was from nothing, every component, everything,
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: And then that changed, and all of a sudden, there
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: were all these pre written components. There were APIs and
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: NPM packages and and and we went from like writing
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: software to orchestrating software. Even though we still call it
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: writing software, when you look at most applications, it's not
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: writing software more. It's orchestrating software. We're like, okay, now
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: now we're orchestrating software, and and that is done in
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: advance and predicting, like oh, if this, then that, we'll
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: call this, we'll call that, and and then we get
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: to like an LLM, which can write orchestration code in
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: real time. So now now we're now we don't need
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: to orchestrate software anymore because software can orchestrate itself. And
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: you're like, great, it can even right itself. So lllms
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: can write their own prompts. Lms can tune their own prompts.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Lms can evaluate their own outputs and decide if they're
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: appropriate or not, and and if they're not, they can
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: go and fix it and they can rewrite the code.
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: So what you have now is a self adaptive system.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: You have a system that is that is adaptive, almost
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: like economics. You know, when you look at a city
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: or most economic environments, they're like super adaptive. You know,
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: a coffee shop goes out of business, another coffee shop
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: comes in. There's no like centralized orchestrator. The mayor is
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: not deciding and master planning out the city. You have
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: this adaptive system. Now, imagine that all of our software
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: is like that, each agent constantly evolving as you, as
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: you change your policies as you. I think of it
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: as the GPS, like it says turn right, you turn left,
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: it says recalculating, it's rewriting itself. So now you're like
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: you're like a gardener. You're like planting seeds and creating
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: an ecosystem, and you're never going back. You're not fixing bugs,
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: you're not deploying software. It's just all of these little
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: tiny systems with objectives adapting to everything that you're doing
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: or want to do. Hence, like then visible machines like
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: these things will just work in the background, trying to
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: get you a better deal on your health insurance, moving
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: your you know, balances around from one introductory offer to another,
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: playing for jobs at every company that can offer you,
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: you know, more money than the one you're in blah
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: blah blah blah blah getting out of parking ticket. It's like,
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: we're just gonna have little armies of these systems out
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: there advocating for us in the world against other little
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: systems advocating. So that's just a crazy, crazy, crazy idea
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: when you and this is all possible right now. This
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: isn't like, oh, in the future.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, to hear that art of the the art
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: of the possible is real and the different scenarios that
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: are coming to life. It definitely it's it's on the
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: verge if not feeling in many ways like science fiction
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: and it's here, right, So apply it to some real
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: world scenarios. It operations, for example, can tend to be
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: very stagnant over time. They're doing the same thing over
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: and over again. They're just keeping the lights on. A
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: lot of people would relate it to just being on
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: a treadmill, and it's not a very satisfying kind of
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: a role. In your view, what role should it be
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: playing to help drive and enable real organizational transformation to
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: get off that treadmill? Does it play a role here
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: or is it more of a business function, telling it
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: what they need for outcomes. What's the who's driving the ship?
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's so interesting. There's a great book out there
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: called Prediction Machines and it talks about the transformation of
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: like cool powered steam engines to electric motors and it
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: I think it really helps when you look at strategies
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: and how companies were evolved to split it into two.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: It's going to be two things. This what they call
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: points solution change, which was replacing the coal motor with
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: a big electric motor, but still all the belts that
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: radiated through the factory are still there and all the
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: machines circling the big motor in the middle. And then
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: systemic change, where every machine gets a small motor. They
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: put it in a line and they call it assembly line. Right,
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: so let's look at it through that. It has their
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: ten percent changes that they're going to keep doing right,
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: and they're gonna all of these systems can easily handle
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: ten percent better on everything you just name the use case.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: It can monitor logs, it can monitor systems. It can
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: when a bug happens in a piece of software, it
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: can go repair the bug, even recode the bug. On
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: the fly for the user.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: They don't.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: You don't have to open a ticket, send it to it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: It you go to like, it can just solve itself.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: If an API call is is malformed, it can reform it.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: So it's hard to say because we're holding it back.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: The question is what will people implement at their pace
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: right that's comfortable to them, which is really hard for
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: me to predict, and systemic changes. Why do we have
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: an IT department? Like we used to have a computer
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: department in companies, and if you worked on a computer,
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: you were in the computer department, and you're probably a woman,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: by the way, in nineteen seventy. Now if you work
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: on a computer, you're on in the computer department. You're
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: just an employee. So is there an IT department? Is
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: there development part department five years from now? I don't
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: think so. I think everyone's going to be in it
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: or no one of whatever your definition of it is.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: So I find that if you just look at any
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: project in IT, you just pick anything, you can apply
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: an agentic approach to it and improve what it is.
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: So the question is where do you begin? And to me,
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: it's begin at the point of high pain points. But
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: there is a point I'd like to make, which is
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: I think super super important. At this moment, the adoption
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: of AI is is not happening at the company level.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: It's happening at the individuals. It's it's just people just
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: aren't That's where the money is, That's where all the
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: money is being made. That's who's adopting at light speed.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: Employees are like, oh, this company hasn't isn't using AI.
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: Yes they are. Every employee if they can save time,
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: they're using it. Just because it wasn't sanctioned. It's like
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: an illusion like, ah, we don't use AI, Like you're wrong.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: Look around us. And if you factor that in, you realize, like, oh, wait,
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: what happens when they unleash when that AI goes outbound?
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: When they unleash that onto companies to apply for jobs,
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: to you know, get better deals to in the in
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: bad cases, add mold to a candy bar and send
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: an email and try to get a free box of candy.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: What happens when teenagers and everybody else starts putting these
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: things outbound? This idea that it can move at ten percent,
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: and call centers can be like, oh, let's get ten
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: percent better, they're going to be in panic buying. They're
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: going to be like, we can't, we cannot no longer
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: handle this. We didn't expect the exponential curve of adoption
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: on the other side. So I think we're in this
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: moment where, yeah, look at all your current projects, look
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: at your pain points, and incrementally change it at your
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: leisure until a year from now or eighteen months, and
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: you'll be in panic to get systems in place. And
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: that's what I'm worried about. Actually, I'm worried about the
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: panic buying. While people are taking their time learning this stuff,
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: now you've got a bunch of people who don't know
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: what they're doing, implementing in a panicked way.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: We've talked several times on the show about the the
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: evolution of shadow it to shadow AI, people doing things
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: at the grassroots level that are unbeknownst to IT. Not
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: only are they doing it for their their own benefit,
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: their own reduction of time, but I would argue, more important,
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: more more directly, a reduction of their own effort. I
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: think they're they're looking at it as an easy button.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Why should I put in the effort if I can
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: just go have AI do it and and that shadow AI.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: I think that giving it a term like that almost
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: minimizes the impact and the risk of that happening in
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: an enterprise. So let's look at the impact in an enterprise, right. So,
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: as my background is it engineering and Jay Compute. I
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: ran at this up engineering team for many years. The
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: first time we saw an orchestra tool was awe inspiring.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: It was, oh my god, look at what we're going
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: to be able to do. The possibilities seemed endless, and
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: that notion of ten percent really rings true to me
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: because we implemented that and we saw so many possibilities
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: and so many new things that we could do. Over
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: a period of a very short period of time. It
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: actually died because we didn't know who owned it. We
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: couldn't handle the inbound workload asking for new things, and
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: we said, you know what, there's too much that we
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: can do with it. We need to shut it down.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: So talk a bit about the implication for it's traditional
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: service models. When we introduce so much change and now
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: that you know managing it with agents, does that help
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: manage that volume of change or are the agents themselves
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: introducing too much change to be able to manage how
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: do we see the nature of it support evolving over
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: time to be able to accommodate it.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so hard. Again, we go back to Marshall's book
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: that we're still digesting it. Yeah, he's dead, and like
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: so are we going to Are we going to ten
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: years from now still be adopting what's possible today? Like
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: are we going to slow this down? Or is this different?
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: Is it that all of us as individuals and personally
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: we're adopting so fast we're doing the greater than ten percent.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: Is that going to push companies to go faster? Very
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: very hard for me to predict that shadow I T
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: You're right, it's like, I mean, it sounds minimal when
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: it's when it's like completely transformational. And it's basically saying,
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: you know, people are automating their jobs and getting second jobs.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: They're already doing that, and then if they're not, they're
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: thinking about it and they're going because the company hasn't
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: quite like realized they've automated their job yet. Why because
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: they think they're in control. They wow, I haven't given
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: them the tools. Of course they have it, Like what
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: is it in that in that place where like is
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: their head in the land, Like, do they think there's
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: they're still in control and that people are just using
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: the tools that they're providing. And are they going to
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: just keep providing tools that people aren't going to use
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: because they're because they're too slow to provide them the
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: latest tools. I really don't. I really don't know, right
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: I think there's definitely an issue right now where you
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: have more restrictions on companies providing tools and what companies
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: can do to employees and to consumers. Then consumers have
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: back to companies, meaning companies can't robo call people, but
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: people can robo call companies. H and so you have
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: this like lopsided scenario where companies have more liability for
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: adopting the tools then people do. And then now we're
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: going to have companies that need tools to react to
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: all the people adopting them. And so will I Tea
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: just get overwhelmed or or does this get democratized. The
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: other thing I've I've seen folks talking about is this
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: idea that if it doesn't move fast, if it doesn't
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: adopt you know, at the pace of consumers and employees,
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: that some companies will and that we'll see this like
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: massive roll up where companies that do adopt will buy
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: the other ones that don't because they'll have the leverage
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: to do so. So we're not going to like necessarily
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: see them all go out of business, but it'll just
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: be financially feasible for them to go purchase yeah and
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: roll them up because they're like, well, we don't, we don't.
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: It's not like we'll take your ten person accounting team
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: and turn it into five. I have an added to
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: our accounting team. It's well, just our accounting team is
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: fully automated, so we'll just get rid of all ten
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: and and that gives us money to purchase you.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: It's an interesting paradox to think about the think about
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: a company introducing AI agents to their employees to a
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: top down model and telling people we need you to
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: automate your job so we don't need you anymore. That
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: would it would be pandemonium. But it feels like employees
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: are going to do it organically. There's an automate their job.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: That's what's crazy.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: They're not needed anymore.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: They're all like, city there going, my company's going to
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: automate me out of a job. You're like, you know
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: you are doing it right, they're not what.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Has happen for it support? If you talked about this
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: notion of it just organically being consumed into the business,
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: we don't need those support channels anymore. We still, and
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: I think, because it's reality in most places, still talk
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: about a classic tier one, support, Tier two to your
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: three escalation. Uh, because there are people and skill sets
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: and knowledge that are needed in that tier system. What
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: happens to that? Do the teams automate their way out
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: of that?
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: Or Uh?
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: What's your what are your thoughts on them?
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's kind of weird to think about. So Omar Santos,
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: he kind of leads the that's like coalition of AI
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: Security and he's from Cisco. He's it's like the center
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: of security. You know, he's going to all these giant
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: data centers and consulting with Cisco. And we just had
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: a conversation recently and on my podcast, and he's connected
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: to a good friend of mine and and I think
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: he's he would tell you, like security, for example, there's
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: there's no security department. Everyone's in the security department. There's
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: these silos break down and if you're gonna call I
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: T what are you gonna tell it in the future
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: of self creating software. That's that's been generated on the fly.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: I like your interface was generated right there in real
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: time you're using it. It disappears it's just part of
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: a transcript. It was never a C I DC pipe pipeline.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: The bug was fixed when it happened. So are you
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: just gonna call and say, hey, my you know, my
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: chatbot called me a bully. I don't like that. And
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: he's like, oh well, I'll have a talk with that
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: chap out of yours? Like is it just a place
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: to go, you know, vent the personalities that you know,
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: who who made these things?
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: You know, there's got to be you guys somewhere though,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: right if we let I if we let technology just manage, maintain, fix, deploy, upgrade, change,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: where do the humans to play?
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: It's a great question. It's it's a funny thing, like
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: where do the humans come to play it? It's like
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: it's like your dog. You know, Let's say you go
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: get three dogs, right and they're running around you ice, Like,
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: where does the human come in? I don't know, Like
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: these guys are playing with each other, are they going
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: to they're there for you? You know, like the dogs have
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: no reason to be in the house and to do
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: what they do if not for you. Right, So, I
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: think we think of human in the loop a little
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: bit off the point of humans in the workplace. And
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: the reason, like one of the economic reasons we pay
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: bosses more money than we pay employees is we need
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: to give them more to lose, so that if they
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: make mistakes or are negligent, that losing their job is
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: meaningful to them and that it's damaging to them. So so,
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: and then the more responsibility you have, the more money
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: we give you, so the more you have to lose,
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: so the more seriously you take those decisions. This paradigm remains.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: People have to take responsibility for these systems and they
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: have to have something to lose when these systems are
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: either negligently ignored, like their objectives, So think of all
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: of their objectives have to be signed off, almost like
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: you're a CEO sitting there and you're getting this paperwork
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: and this one wants to lower our electricity bill by
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: doing X, Y and Z. Okay, yes, I approve this.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: I approve this. Oh you approve this, You're fired. If
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: a car runs into somebody, it can't be the car's fault, right,
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: So with all of these machines, some human has to
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: take response. It's not about them being needed to get
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: the job done, like that's just an old paradigm. They're
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: needed to take responsibility for the objectives of these machines,
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: which means they have to pay attention. That's why you
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: hear like guys like Elon must say like it'll be
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: one guy and twelve robots and they'll be watching over
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: those robots to take responsibility for what those robots are doing.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: Because without that, we don't have a system. Our tire
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: system breaks down. So robots don't have anything to lose
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: when they make mistakes. There has to be a human,
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: so we're gonna have We see this with Amazon q
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: as they've been like working on migrating main frameworkloads over
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: to Amazon Services. This has been a huge success project.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: And the guy who the principal designer on that was
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: a guy used to work with me. And you look
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: at what it used to be like trying to recode
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: that stuff in you know, Amazon Service is really open source, right,
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: and you you look at what that looks like now
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: and it's like this this event log. You wake up
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: in the morning and there's all these yes, oh yes, okay, no,
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: oh yes, okay no. And I almost think of like
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: the Obama thing, like are we all going to have
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: like green I mean not gray and blue suits, because
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: we're gonna have to make so many decisions all day
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: long of our systems going like do me do this?
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Do me to that?
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: And you have to pay attention and read that. You
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: want to like diminish the number of choices you have
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: to mandate secution making.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's a whole socioeconomic show that we could have.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: We don't have time for today, right, But the revenue
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: of a company will no longer be flowing into the
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: pockets of employees. It's flowing into the pockets of the
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: tech bros who own the AI platforms. Right, they're digital
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: employees now, so what's the impact there for society? But
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: that's a tangent that we're not going to go on
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: for employees, especially in it. How do you future proof
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: your career? Right? Talk about the skills, the habits, the
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: mindsets that will help them maybe stay relevant as intelligent
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: automation reshapes their work. How do they I guess, to
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: put it plainly, how do you stay employed in it.
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you I think one of the challenges with it
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: is is that your boss and the apparatus above you
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: thinks they're in control of the adoption of AI and
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: there and they and so they're slowing it down and
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: they're slowing you down right and and now you're like
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: falling behind, you know. So it's not not putting your
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: learning and your career in the hands of the people
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: that you work for, but like you're gonna have to
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: lean into this stuff on your own. Don't wait for
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: your boss too, you know, to approve use of tools.
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: You're gonna have to go tinker. You're gonna have to
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: play with this stuff on your own because you may
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: find that the rest of the company is more proficient
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: at technology than you are before you know it.
• 31:43
  Speaker 6: It's so interesting or uh you know, you have you know,
• 31:47
  Speaker 6: when you have sometimes your podcast your suffer right and
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: sometimes you go questions and they get answered in the
• 31:52
  Speaker 6: course because you just know that the questions look a
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: little bit redundant by the time you get to it.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: But uh, you know, I thing I would like to
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: pick up on is a couple of things. Actually. One
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: is you talk about like the illusoriness of control in
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: this era, or you know, you allude to it, the
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: impossibility of control, whether it's on an organizational level or
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: an individual level, or even a collective level, that would
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: seem to be a big transition for US society. And
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: what kind of a transition do you see that as
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: fundamentally like an existential psychological one, because there's not a
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: pragmatic approach you could I am.
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: I had a conversation with the former ambassador for the
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: US in Sweden. He was into the bassador in Sweden
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: for the US and then the UK Barsum, and he
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: he talks a lot about decentralization and decentralized orgs, and
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: he points out that there are companies like Visa and
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: that are decentralized. He talks about how cities and towns
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: are decentralized. In general, you don't have the mayor making
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: all of these decisions. So decentralization isn't necessarily this existential
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: new idea. It's just not common in companies. We still
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: run companies like dictatorships and they're very centralized. And what
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: he would say is you either decentralized or die, and
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: that means you're going to have to to defer personal
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: responsibility onto your employees. You're gonna have to let them
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: make decisions. You're going to have to trust them, just
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: like we trust in cities people to design their own
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: coffee shops. And so you've got to kind of rethink
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: your organization to run more like a city than running
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: it like you know, Iraq used to be run.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm and uh. And conversely as individuals rather than
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: necessarily entrepreneurs and business owners. The onus is or let's say,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: let's say as employees. That's the same, the same ethos
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: can be taken on board, but in a very different way.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Right Like you, you you have to consider yourself a
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: fully decentralized unit of economic production for your own life effectively,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: and any expectation of the traditional security offered by the
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: corporation offered by your employer, that's the that's a that's
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: a that's fast becoming an illusion. You would do well
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: on an individual level, correct, Yeah.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: I think if there's something existential to a lot of people,
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: it's that they grew up with an apparatus, you know,
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: parents that took care of them. Then they went to college,
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: but really you know, they were given real and structure
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: and then from college. They went to a corporation that
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: dolls out just enough work not too much, not too little,
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: pays them and now they have to actually be adults
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: and take responsibility. They can't just sit there and wait
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: right for for parenting from their boss. And that is
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: existential for a lot of people. They're institutionalized. You know,
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: they can go through life, they can go to retirement
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: and like they go through life being parented.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Well, we've structured society with the idea of but autonomy
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: is a rare quality, right like we we it's the
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: captains is industry, you know, it's the entrepreneur like and
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: everybody else. The rest of us.
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: We don't have to exercise that that that that that
• 35:52
  Speaker 7: characteristic per se.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: We we are.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: We are for supporting cars if you will.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it might be the one downside or one of
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: the few downsides of middle class, you know, poor. A
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: lot of people that are poor, like, they don't they
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: don't have that structure and apparatus. You know. That's why
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: we see a lot of them, like you know, become entrepreneurs. Right, So,
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: I think it's just you know, your class definitely can
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: contribute to how institutional as you are, and probably that's
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: the class that gets disrupted the most psychologically by like
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: feeling like, wait a second, everything's just been provided to me.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: What is this where I have to like take ownership?
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: The final thing, I thought we could tie it back
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: to more of the flu maybe actually probably.
• 36:44
  Speaker 8: Because actually what you're describing that, I think mccluen talks
• 36:48
  Speaker 8: about the movement from the literary society to the oral society,
• 36:52
  Speaker 8: from the from the directional to the instantaneous. Yeah, from
• 36:58
  Speaker 8: a higher arch cool to the to be integrated.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: And this almost sounded like the complete realization of that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: And I think I remember one image from his writing
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: which was about the factory line resembling the line of
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: the text, you know, yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: so and that is the as the fundamental basis not only.
• 37:25
  Speaker 7: Of forms of work, but if the career itself, right,
• 37:31
  Speaker 7: but the progressive career, you enter it, you move through
• 37:35
  Speaker 7: success of stages left to right, and.
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: You go, you know, like, yeah, the linear versus the
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: circular linear verse is the circular, right.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: The same with software, like it was linear and now
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: it's circular, like it's it fixes itself, Like what what
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: do I do in a circular world? We're used to,
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: like assembly line, it's the cradle to the grave. It
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: starts here, it ends there, like it never ends. What
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: do you talking about? Yeah, I think as designers, right,
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: especially designing things, that's where things need to go to
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: become more you know, to create less waste in the world.
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: If we designed more circular things, that would be better.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: And it is circular thinking is definitely you know, it's
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: a little more difficult and challenging, but it's it's kind
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: of where we're all headed. When I think of Marshall
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: mcclean's like global village as you're talking about, right, the whole,
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: like we're all connected. There's something I wish I could
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: go back. I wish I could talk to him because
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: I have this like this new idea. I just not
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: a new idea, but I wanted to blend an idea
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: I think. You know, I'm always fascinated by like society
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: somewhere in time, like we were anatomically like the same,
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: like we're generally the same time, brain's the same size, fingers,
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: you know, ten fingers, ten TOAs. But then something happens,
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: like way way way way down the line here where
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: we just suddenly start advancing you know, Egypt, and like
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: like whoa, what we didn't change? What happened? Right, there's
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: this like puzzle as to like what the heck happened
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: then to turn to turn us from hunter gatherers to
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: like where we are right now with with soft like
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: our lives are so different with where we haven't changed.
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: And I think you know most will just tell you
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: that it's it was just some the concentration of people,
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: the ability for people to reach a certain populace where
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: ideas could easily travel and we can build upon old ideas, right,
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: and so it's it's almost like earshot, like oh I
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: can I learned something? I tell you that. Then then
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: you learn something new and you tell the next And
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: so maybe it was just like every time we got
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: close to the density that would would perpetuate this, like
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: we get a virus or some natural disaster or comet
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: hits and we're like, ah man, but finally finally we
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: hit this density and we could now talk and build
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: on ideas and iterate on ideas fast enough. And and
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: maybe lllms like I was thinking about the tribe in
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: New Zealand that took a language their language that they
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: were losing trained in LLLM on it, and now their
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: language will be preserved forever like the elders were dying
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: and now it's and maybe knowledge now has taken this
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: leap where we can build upon it at an exponential rate.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: So his whole idea of global village it probably ties
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: to this idea that now that physical concentration no longer
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: needs to be physical because we have digital connectivity. So
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: now even if there were a million people all spread out,
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: it would from a conversation from a knowledge standpoint, it
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: would be as if they're all in the same location.
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: And now what does LM's do to that when not
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: only are we not going to lose old ideas that
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: we that were popular and we knew about, but we're
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: also not going to lose old ideas that haven't become
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: popular yet, the ones that weren't popular.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: And you know, look at you. One last thing. Just
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: it reminded me about conversation with Pedro last week, Tim
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: about the mention he mentioned AI doesn't have skin in
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: the game, and it was a phrase I thought was
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: very nice, but Roberty fleshed out when he spoke about
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: taking numbers a human responsibility being a kind of professional exigency,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: if you will, or something that stain the idea of
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: professional in the future. But absolutely pleasure to have you one.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Rob really enjoyed the conversation and anything you'd like to
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: put out before we say buy.
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: In terms of way people can.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Reach you, will or read your material, et cetera.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: Not really. I think I think there's two things that
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: are coming that people should pay attention to. One I've
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: been working on for ten years, and that's the agent
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: run time. I think it's building agents. We show third
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: graders building agents. They're easy to do, but giving them
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: a place to work, a safe place, I think that's
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: that's a super important thing folks should should pay a lot,
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: a lot of close attention to. And then I think
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: also understanding like what's next after agents. I think if
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: you look at Nvidia and you look at these other folks, simulation,
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: I think it's really important to factor that in to understand,
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: like these things become more reliable when they can simulate
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: what they do before they do them. And I think
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: a lot of people are missing that that that you know,
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: oh Ai is going to do X, Y and Z
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: and make mistakes and like no, actually once they're super intelligent.
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: They'll be super good at predicting and simulating what they'll
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: do before they do them, which is they'll be better
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: at it than we are. So I think simulation is
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: a fascinating next step that we're all going to take here,
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: and it's it's a good one to factor in cool.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Love it rop great pleasure. Well the ben no Man.
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: Thanks ro.
• 43:47
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