Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Navigating the Social Media and Tech Dilemma | Motherhood Uncut | Season 1 Episode 4

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Navigating the Social Media and Tech Dilemma | Motherhood Uncut | Season 1 Episode 4 · Motherhood Uncut

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Deb.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Kate.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Episode four, Deb.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: So our episode today, our topic today, is one that you and I have talked a ton about for one preteen and three teenagers in our two houses.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we actually had a number of people write in about this particular topic.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: So today we're going to dive into technology and social media use for kids and kind of muddle together through this dilemma, challenge, debate, pain point of watching our kids during this time of increased social media technology.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love for you to start us off because I know we had several important parts of this that we wanted to discuss.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess before you jump in, I just want to acknowledge to everybody listening that this has been a topic for us.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: You and I have been battling through these big questions around how does social media fit into our family?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: And actually not just for our kids, but for us, because we model, right?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I just want to name that for everyone.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have done a lot of research, we work with this with our own clients, but we are not immune.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh God.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh with anything, actually.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yes.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's also really important to name that we um we both look at this um with really open minds.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: We know that it's not all anything.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're always kind of trying to play with how do we teach ourselves and our kids how to navigate this technological world because it is really so different and complicated, and no one has been here before.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, and it sort of reminds me of our topic last week around judgment and motherhood, because there's so much judgment that comes up, you know, towards ourselves and other families when we look at this.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what I just heard you say, which I love, we're probably gonna say this in every episode, is there's no right or wrong, there's no good or bad, right?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: We just want to peel apart the layers so that each of us can figure out what is the best mode for our particular family and our particular kids.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do we make informed decisions?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Informed decisions that are in alignment with your family values.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So will you start us off talking about the brain?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you you and I can obviously both contribute to this, but that was one of the big questions we got in our letters from readers, and I'll read one in a little bit.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: But but help us understand, you know, from your obviously, neither you nor I are, you know, t um medical doctors or neuroscientists, but from your experience as a mom and a therapist and someone who specializes in the attachment and relationships between moms and daughters, what do we need to know about how social impact social media and and technology in general, I guess, impacts our brains?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for adding both.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: The thing I want to actually start with is that when we are talking about social media specifically, it is not just Instagram, Facebook, which obviously none of the youth use anymore, but um Snapchat, but it's also it's TikTok, it's YouTube.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, actually, it's it's 360, it's be real.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's just I mean it's endless.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many ways more are coming and coming, right?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I encourage all listeners to go to Common Sense and check out all the new social medias that just keep coming and they actually tell about the motivation, the danger, all the things that we need to know about them.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: We can put that in the show notes too.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think one thing that we need to remember about the brain is that especially with adolescents, we are not working with a fully developed brain.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I know we say this all the time, but I never want to be presumptuous that our listeners automatically know this, but we are adults and they are not.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And they will not be fully developed until roughly around 25, 26.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Some say 28.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really, it's so important to remember that because as their brains are developing, they are clumsy.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many things that go into this reactive brain, but it's also very easy for their brains to be impacted in a really negative way.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love like I love hate, right?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: When one of my kids will be like, You don't know what I need, right?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of those things during this time that I find so hard and mothering is that that giving independence for our kids to find out who they are in their own while also knowing that actually we have more information than they have.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where the technology and social media has bumped up against that in my house.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, me too.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to say that that we are gonna have dip, we're gonna hopefully try and address all these different stages that the relationship with technology will change based on the kids' age.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually are in this really new territory where I mean both Kate and I have been saying that we are looser lately.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, especially over the summer, where all rules have sort of go gone out the window.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just it's just hard.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just I I think we both have like so much empathy for all parents out there trying to navigate this really tricky time.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: All right, but to stay on track, the brain.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing that I think is really important to remember is that, first of all, when there is no actual hard research that I have found yet that puts a connection with social media and depression and anxiety as it is, because that's often a question I get.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Does this cause this?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but the thing that they have actually had some real correlations with is that starting in 2008 when the smartphone became you know present, that is when teenage suicide rates significantly increased.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they put that together all the time, and then as researchers start to really study, the biggest things that we find are that I say we as if I'm a researcher, or you kind of so not our own home.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but you read research and you do research in your own home.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really very good.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love you.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so what we know is that when there's a desire to get likes or to get any kind of even ding response, yeah, um, it's going to activate dopamine release.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, dopamine doesn't last very long.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it and then the brain wants more of it and more of it.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And for a growing adolescent brain, it's actually a really big setup for addiction because it's it's just and it's out of balance.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a really big conflict when we're thinking about dopamine.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I actually it makes me I I love that you just brought up the the sort of developing adolescent or child brain, right?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: There are some people whose younger kids before adolescents may have phones and smartphones and be on technology, but right, but that that growing brain and dopamine is sort of a perfect storm because even for us, with our 40 to 50 year old brains, right, that are fully developed, we can play into that dopamine hit.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it happens to me, you know, I have I'm doing much more work on social media right now, and I have to monitor myself constantly about what's happening internally when I'm putting posts out there, because for a 49-year-old woman, I can get sucked in.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad you said that.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: You take that, and then you take a brain that's trying to develop its systems and neural pathways, and that's where we can get where things can get tricky and sometimes dangerous.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, to your point, like our fully developed brains have a really hard time metabolizing all this information, all the stimulation, all the external feedback, so that their young brains really are struggling with how to metabolize it all.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's in that struggle that that is what can cause increased anxiety and increased depression and FOMO and highly comparative nature.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're already lived, they're already living in a comparative nature.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: That is the culture of adolescence.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that doesn't really begin in the development until around eight when they start having abstract thinking.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really, but for youth teens, tweens, when technology is most prevalent, is um that comparing is so detrimental.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's so interesting, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: You started by saying, okay, there's no to your knowledge, there's no hard data that says social media or technology causes depression and anxiety.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: As far as I know so far.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And to your knowledge.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Someone could probably write in and say that's not true.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to hear that if that's true.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: Let us know what we're missing.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: However, there's so much data that shows that competition and comparison in adolescents causes or leads to symptoms of depression or anxiety.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: As well as this, you I'm gonna sort of reframe something you said because it just clicked in for me in the work that I do and in my own house as well, which is that comparison, competition, dopamine hits, they they they raise big feelings for us.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you use that word metabolize.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: A young brain can't metabolize big feelings on its own.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: A grown-up's brain can, because we have a frontal cortex where we can have perspective and rational thinking and think kind of big picture.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: But those little brains, right, when we're when they're when they're getting stirred up with FOMO or competition or envy or fear or whatever it is, so much emotion going through that body.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that just that that kind of distress internally can turn into depression and anxiety if it's not managed well.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the other thing that is so interesting is that it is becoming, and it's all about me culture.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Say more about that.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: When we we live, I mean, there are all teens and tweens are already by nature, you know, self-centered.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's right, it's appropriate.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're supposed to be self-centered.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're egocentric.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so then you add in like all the selfies, the constant selfies, the the all the promoting, which again, well, I'll come back to that.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um that it's all about me culture is actually reiterating that other people's opinions of me really matter.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and then we add in the filters and the like delusions of a perfect life and all these things.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what we know.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: These are these are just facts about social media.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're not even putting in our opinions around it yet.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I also want to say there's a lot of good things that come out of it.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, connection, you know, information.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Information, how to do things, and learning so many great things, um, making new friends, yeah, building self-confidence.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's actually so many wonderful things too.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to be clear that this is not all bad.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, very few things are, which our listeners will say over and over again.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, okay, so so I think one of the did you have something else to say?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay, thank you.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to say a couple more things about the brain is that what we're also finding is when there's kids are on their technology the way they are in these days, it it's less sleep, less outside time, less creativity with hands and m and movement.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And those things, when those are decreased in the life in one's life, depression and anxiety increase.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's actually another really big factor here.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: That again, it's not the technology that's necessarily causing it, so to speak, it's that the technology is taking away from all these other really important parts of being a healthy, well-balanced humanity.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: It increases risk for depression and anxiety because of those things.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, it's so, it's so complicated.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I know that in just in out socially with whether it's school or colleagues or out there in the world, you know, when we talk when social media and technology comes out, comes up in conversation, it so quickly becomes what's good, what's bad, what's right, what's wrong.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what I'm reminded in this conversation is it's so multi-layered.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:25
  unknown: Yes.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's just layers upon layer, which is why it's so fucking complicated.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because we want it to be simple.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Our brains want it to be, is it just good or bad, right or wrong?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not, it doesn't work that way.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, and it's and it changes every year.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, with their development as they age.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And as more access happens.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, oh, this is so hard.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is so hard.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: This one is so hard, actually.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like really struggling.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: I want us to bring in uh, you know, I I think something you and I talk about often when we're, you know, having our random mothering conversations that aren't available to the rest of the world, is this difference between rules and values in a home, right?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, again, it sort of goes into this question is technology good or bad?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: What should the rules be?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: What's right or wrong?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing that you and I have has been helpful for us when we've tried to work through this is okay, what what is what are the values that we want to be teaching our kids in general, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: And in what way does technology use um lean into those values or away from that those values, right?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: So for instance, in um in my family, um uh coming together at the end of the day and having dinner all together to share our land and share our days and communicate is a family value.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: So someone being on their phone during dinner takes away from that opportunity, yeah, right?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or another example might be in my house.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you and I, I I maybe we'll have a podcast on sleep because we're we're both so crazy about sleep.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: But sleep is such a value for me and for us.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so keeping the the phone out of the bedrooms for all four of us, because that's the other thing.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: We don't our kids don't learn by listening, they learn by watching, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to be making these kind of adjustments for for us in order for us to sort of stand behind our our what we're asking our kids to do.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: But none of us have phones in the bedroom because of the science and data behind what happens when you're looking at a screen right before you go to bed.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: So those are sort of you know two examples of where I think, and and I'm sure you have more, but where I think it's so important to be combining these questions about social media technology in general, and what we want to do in our family based on what our family values are.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you also just said that you're modeling.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you you're you're talking about values, and then you're talking about living them.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's actually a myth that can happen so often.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate that you said our kids can't have their phones in the room, and either will I.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: I actually will tell sort of a funny slash annoying story is that at one point we decided that we are gonna have we we it would really felt disruptive for people to be on their phones in our common living area because for me too, right?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sitting there, my daughter's in one chair, I'm in another, my husband is in another chair, and like we're all on our phones, and we have valid reasons, you know, it's right, but it got really kind of overwhelming.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so we made this rule that all of our phones had to be kept.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: We had to only use our phones in the office.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Tech Text Station.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Text station.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: How'd that work for you?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't do it.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't do it, and so I found myself sneak, I found myself sneaking, you know, like under the table while I was cooking dinner.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, I'm gonna do that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, to your point, I'm like, shit, what am I modeling to my kids?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like sneak.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we actually had to sit down and say, okay, that rule didn't work.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because daddy and I can't, we can't follow through on that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we can't expect you to be doing something different than us.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's lots of room for like trial and error.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love that.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, that's something we're gonna address later.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: That there's so many moments where we're like, hey, we tried something, we're learning as we go, totally, and now we're pivoting.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the tech station worked really well for us when the kids were young and there was like an iPad, and like they, if they needed to go like research something or go check in with a friend or whatever it might have been, then it was very deliberate.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: That ship has sailed.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that ship has really sailed.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, our kids want some autonomy.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're starting to get all over the place right now because we're we will leave our listeners with some tips.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, always.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that the text station is can be age appropriate for certain stages of life.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Supervision is something we're gonna talk about.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: How appropriate is it?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um, and things like that.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, can I can I say please?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, so I want to just make sure though, because this has also been something that's come up for us.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's also totally legitimate for the adults in the house to have different tech rules than the kids in the house, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because I just said that I didn't want to model, you know, I want to clarify, you know, being reflective around what are we modeling to our kids and also knowing it's okay to say to a kid, hey, my brain is developed.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: I have different, I have different rules than you do.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then so, okay, so let's go back to then you kind of pick and choose some moments.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know for me, like bring phones at any meal is like a hard no because I feel like chewing our food, talking, being in community, having eye contact, that's like so much, so part of like food for us.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: We like we love food, you know, and it's actually like it's just a big part of our of our family and my heritage, you know.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like a part place where we connect.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So phones without food is a hard, clear line.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: But then to your point, you know, I'll be in I'll be in the car and I need to like make a phone call, and they're all in there, and I'm doing the thing where I'm like talking and it's on speaker because you know, and everyone's part of the conversation.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: But when my kids, they're FaceTiming, walking around the house, and I'm like, take that shit into your own room.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do not want to hear your friends' conversations.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so there's all these places, but it goes back to this other thing around values.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And will you just share with our listeners that wonderful thing you just told me about?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I will, I sure will.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know what you and I are both like this, but I freaking love research and bringing it sort of out of the confines of academia and into ways that we can really translate it as parents and as mothers.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And some of the research I found most valuable is research around rules and values in a family system.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And what this what some of this research has said is that children who are raised in families where the focus is on value, like for instance, we um can dinner time is a time of connection.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: We value connection, right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or um health and wellness, or right?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: So any, we can come up with more.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um kids who are raised in families with values actually end up more successful in life than kids who are raised in families with the focus being on rules.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: You have to sit down while you're eating, right?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you have to be sitting while you eat, or you have to be in bed by nine o'clock.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Or no, you know, no yelling in this house, right?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: That we want to teach the kids, our kids, the why behind those things.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Why do they matter?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Not so that they're doing those things because they don't want to get in trouble and get punished, but they're doing those things because they understand the benefit behind them.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: And there is so much we can work into talking with our kids about social media and technology when it comes to values.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: We want it because we're teaching them the impact, we're teaching them about critical thinking, we're teaching them about, you know, how to about emotional intelligence.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: How does that feel when you got the like, you know, or how does that feel when, you know, you reached out to a friend and they didn't respond via text.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not there's no like, you know, judgment or even rules around it.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: You're just encouraging them to think about why to be reflective, but you're not, you're also saying something else, which I just want to highlight.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: Is it's not just thinking about it, it's connecting what I'm doing to how I feel.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, like how many times have you heard your kids say something like, um, I mean, here's a great example.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: I and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but in our house, we we chose for multiple of reasons, all having to do with our family values, to wait until ninth grade for to give social media to our girls.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: So they had phones that had texting, but they were sort of dumbed-down phones.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so we waited till ninth grade to have social media.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: My daughter's going to 10th, my other daughter's going to eighth.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I have one daughter with social media right now, one without.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that came up in this discussion with my oldest daughter was how she was not engaged in social media and had so much FOMO, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so the conversation wasn't less about it's not fair.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Some friends have social media and some don't, but the conversation was what tell me what that feels like, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so how do you work with your FOMO?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: How do you work with your FOMO?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And also helped me decide when it was time to add Snapchat, for example, because all the way all those ninth and tenth graders are communicating is through Snapchat.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so not having Snapchat was creating a lot of isol feelings of isolation.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and so it was, and we know that social media can also create that, but it was a conversation about the experience of having it or not having it that led us as parents to be able to say, okay, let's try out Snapchat and see how it works.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if I recall, there may have been a PowerPoint.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there was.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: PowerPoint.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, let me be clear.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: I did not create the PowerPoint.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no, no.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: That our daughter had given so much thought to why it was time that we added a an app, Snapchat app, for her.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And she had it was critical thinking and she had presented it and she knew we were gonna keep an eye on it.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: And quite frankly, we haven't really.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because we haven't needed to.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because she took it seriously.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: She had took ownership of it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So this kind of goes back to family values, and we'll I just have to steer away for one moment.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that is that I think a wonderful technique or tip to bring into families is um to restate your values every couple years and make it a family tradition.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's on the new year or something like that, but where everyone contributes what the values are for them, you make a list, you maybe hang it up somewhere in the house where everyone can see it, or you just know it's in the drawer if it's not if you're like anything like my husband that can't have things hanging with anything that doesn't look pretty.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you just know it's there and it actually becomes a roadmap because especially during these harder years, they will go so far away, they're supposed to go so far away from their values, and they need something to come back to.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a way to kind of just guide them through the crunchy times, right?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: And dang, do we go away from our values too?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that as both like, you know, if I can stay, if I my two values, I'm gonna I am gonna go off track.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: We will come back, but my two values right now, I think about this a lot, is our um love and growth, right?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I know that if I am making choices that come from a place of love and if I'm open to growing uh, you know, around about, you know, with the things that are happening, I'm actually okay, like almost all of the time.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I can catch myself if I've gone off those values and come back.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm raising that just as an example to say that idea of value is so important regardless of these topics we're talking about, but the social media and technology one is a great one because quite frankly, things like love and growth and health can go out the window when we're on social media.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, yes.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so where are we at?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I am I I have a question.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's already 24 minutes.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's good.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's 24 minutes.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna keep going.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: We got more info.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we're almost done.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um not almost done, but you know what I mean.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, so I I do have, I think there's an important question here, and and I I can imagine two things.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: I can imagine that some people might be listening and be like, those suggestions and that system of working with social media sounds great, but I'm too far down the road, right?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and can feel overwhelming to like steer a family back.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and I do want to read this um this email we received because um, well, it was a DM, actually.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: You can email us or DM us, but um I think this um taps into that.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna read this, okay?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: It says, Dear motherhood podcasters, I'm hoping you can address an issue I'm having because I'm feeling stuck and depleted.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: I have two kids, a preteen and a teen, and because I never set rules when they were younger, they are both on their devices all of the time.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Anytime I try to set limits, the house erupts.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know this is a problem, but it's too exhausting to do anything about.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm scared, I fucked them up, what do I do?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And this is from a mom named Lulu in Brooklyn.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Lulu.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Lulu.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is a really important question.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is hard to reset when we've gotten far down a road that's that we know on some level isn't working.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: You want to tackle Lulu's question?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, first Lulu, thank you.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is hard.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um Okay, so I think that a really important thing as parents, that as moms, that we can say over and over is I'm learning with you.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm learning right beside you.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been here before.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so first of all, I would suggest that you get clear about your values, right?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: What is important?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, for some people, again, uh it might be actually really important to feel more connected to the world for a kid that is very shy.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a million reasons why, or a kid that's really into video gaming, and you know, gaming is a huge part of the video.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a huge thing too that we can acknowledge.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so say someone's really into gaming, and this is their world outside of their actual world, which might not be so um warm and fuzzy.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and so there's so again, that's why I always want to say there's so there's not one way.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know I know this.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: But once we can get clear about the values, then we start to uh reassess.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, Lulu, let's say you're saying that you see things are going south and you're not liking what you see.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a wonderful time to sit down with your kids and address it and tell them what you're learning and that you have an open mind and you've you've made some mistakes and you're going to change some things in your family system.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you're educating them about the why, you're opening up a conversation to increase curiosity and compassion and let them have a voice.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're also still owning that you're the parent, you make the rules.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And let's remember, kids need rules.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, that's so like I'm sort of envisioning um just based on Lulu's email uh message, what she is describing, which I think she is not alone in, which is there's she does notice something isn't working.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: She probably feels that in her body, right?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah she she s says something like turn your phone off or put your phone away.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, What did she say?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: She said that the house erupts, right?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: So there's screaming and yelling and slamming doors and tantruming and pushing back and whatever it is.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it sounds like Lulu, like so many of us, might be like, fine, like it's too exhausting.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's not worth it.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, that just continues to create this dynamic where as a parent, you feel less and less and less empowered.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Less quote unquote in control of the system of the family.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the agency goes away, and all of a sudden, to your point, all the kids are setting the rules.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, which they don't want.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, it's actually really problematic when the kids don't feel like an adult is in charge.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: They are hungry for it, they may not show it, but they really need it.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: So then it actually goes to this next um process of any behavior change that you're trying to bring into a family.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: I would say maybe pick one change that you're all gonna do.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So like maybe we um we don't have our phones.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe when we're watching TV as a family or by yourself, you don't have your phone out too.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because sometimes I'll walk and I'm like, oh, are we televisioning right now?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's happening?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, let's pick one device, right?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's like, hey, we're just gonna like simplify.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I love this line like, I'm your mother, it's my job to keep you healthy, uh huh.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's my job to keep you safe.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And what we know is that too much, okay, and let me be clear, it's not about technology in general, it's the duration of technology that often gets people in trouble.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's like, hey, I'm noticing that our house is dysregulated.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: We are gonna reel it in, we're gonna change one thing for a couple weeks, and we're gonna see how it goes.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and then the check-in about how it feels.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because gosh, we were talking about this earlier before we started recording.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's um short-term pain for long-term gain, yes, right, versus short-term gain for long-term pain.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Got that right, right?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: But there is this way in which our kids know they don't feel good.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: I remember um Kinley's eighth grade year, we had a graduation party, and I took everyone's phone, all the kids' phone, and in the beginning, everyone was like, I was like the annoying mom, you know, they were like complaining, and some of them had like tried to hide them, and then I was like, don't you hide them in front of them?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, but the point I want to make is within 30 minutes, they were engaging and playing and dancing.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I had heard I heard from one of those friends that she was so grateful that I had actually required everyone to take off the phone out uh remove their phone because she hated it at parties when she and everyone else was on their phone.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: So they don't want, they don't want to be addicted to the phone.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of them do not.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of them actually, if one kid pulls up their phone and then they're all doing it because they don't want to be the one like sniffing at the wall.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there was actually this other research that said when that they really encourage people to take tech breaks and like little cleanses, even if it's like Sunday morning till noon, no phone or once a month we're gonna have a weekend away and we're gonna have to unplug.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that the actual science was so dramatic that emotional intelligence increased significantly.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing, and empathy increased significantly.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: So those are two, I mean, social and emotional intelligence and empathy are things that we want.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: I also want to just add to that that I have noticed, right, this sort of short-term pain for long-term game.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: I've noticed that as soon as one of my daughters puts their social media away, there's a little bit of a kickback.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's some irritability, some crankiness in the beginning.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: But after 10, 15, 20, 30, whatever, however many minutes, each kid's gonna be a little different.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Everything's okay again.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: So if we can push through that initial heightened nervous system when we say no more technology, our kids are gonna start to feel better, as are we.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that we have to sort of ride that wave.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yes.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and actually, going back to nervous system, I mean, here's the thing: we know that there's a pretty severe mental health crisis for tweens and teens right now.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for mothers too, by the way.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: For everybody.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: For everybody.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to start to have more capacity for discomfort and more perspective, we have to learn ways to regulate our nervous system.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's the only way.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: It truly is the only way.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like to start the process.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is another motivator around nervous system regulation and and and teaching our kids how to navigate.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I said this at the beginning, but I want to say one more thing about it.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Something that I've been trying to practice is, you know, I check my email like three or four times a day.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not like checking like every five minutes, you know, and that that actually is so healthy for the brain and from personally for my nervous system.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: I can sit down, I pour a glass of water, I it's designated time, you know.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's not always like this.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm just saying, I want to be clear.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: I am on I am returning emails all day long.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Which people probably appreciate that about you.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they do, but it's exhausting for my brain.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: I feel the exhaustion.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think like I'm sitting here hearing you say that, I'm like, oh, I totally should do that, right?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like, There's the should.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess the question for me is do I want to?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I run I run the center.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I I don't know if I want to not return because it is useful to return.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the question for me too with that particular one is do I need to?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I manage my internet and social media uses in different ways.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know why I just pulled that out.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: That came out of nowhere, but you know what I mean?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm hearing you say that, I'm like, oh shit, we have to do that.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, because there's not one way.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because I actually think I piss a lot of people off because sometimes there's a huge lag time, and that's that's something I'm willing to deal with because I know that I actually, my brain cannot tolerate your brain tolerates it better than me.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: We know this.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I call you, I'm like, how do I do Instagram?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know these things.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I so it's good.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: But my point is, is like sometimes I'm trying to teach the girls, you know, okay, we come home from an outing, let's all just like sit together and everyone check in with their world.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do we need to do?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And give ourselves some time.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, my husband might walk in and see us all on our phones, and then he gets triggered, and I'm like, it's deliberate.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess my point is there's room for so many ways.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know we're running out of it.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Will you share some tips with us?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: I know that you have um so much great kind of what what we can leave our listeners with, and we will put all of this in the show notes.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I want to just acknowledge that we're just like skimming the surface here.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, for the families out there that have a lot of tech use, like, and it's working for you, just notice that, pay attention, and don't judge yourself, right?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: For the families that are really on the other extreme and going against the grain, I want to just say that it takes a lot of effort to go against the grain.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm one of those families, and not as much anymore, but in the early years, so like then it becomes a conscious choice.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I am going to actually not be the norm right now, and what is that like?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that going back to this mindfulness piece, like, how are you, how is it to not totally fit in right now and be different?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Can you manage the stress that comes to the and if it's too much stress, then let's assess, right?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's always a juggling yeah.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you brought that up too.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Just just one more thing before you jump into your tools.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because I we've been talking a lot about what to do to help our kids with their social media and technology use.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a trap we get stuck in with moms as we make it all about our kids.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I would just, I know you too, I think we would like to invite everybody listening to just check in with yourself in your social media use after this podcast.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and you, you know, what a sort of um irony that we are, you know, many people are listening to this on their phones, right?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: But just to, so it's not a judgmental place, but just to sort of ask, gosh, what's happening for me with social media?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Where is social media and and technology getting in my way of living my life in a healthy way?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: What changes can I make so that I can model those changes to my kids, right?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, we want you to be thoughtful about best practices for young kids and adolescents, but even before that, we want you to be thoughtful about best practices for yourself.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we are just skimming the surface on this one.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: So just know that this is intended to make you think, right?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I have 14 tips.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go through them really quickly.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: All 14?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, pick pick like three or four, and then we will put the rest in the show notes.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good call.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I'm gonna reiterate model.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: You are the parent, they're watching you much more than they're listening to you.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Model self-awareness, self-control, all of those good things.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Model, model, model.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the struggle is real and we all feel it.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, times and places.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Establish some basic times and places where smartphones aren't aren't welcome and where they are.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And put some thought into this.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: This kind of goes into our value discussion before.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the bedroom.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, let's talk about that one.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is a huge one, and it's a little tricky for me right now, I have to say.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I used to really feel like keep phones out of the bedroom, and in the early years, I think that works.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: And because actually it's less dangerous things happen when there's an adult in the room while they're on their phone.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Great point.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And danger is something we didn't even talk about.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Danger is actually there's a big danger component to fit phone use.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: But uh that will evolve and change when they need their phone for music, or they use it for FaceTime A frame while they're doing a homework assignment, or they just want to like be in their bedroom with a closed door, which by the way is totally okay.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um so I would say assess for your kid.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody knows your kid better than you, and but as much as you can keep phones out of the bedroom, and I am a hard stop on sleeping with phones in the bedroom.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like that we that is actually some real data around that.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's going on?
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe pick one more.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, why don't you pick?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um you you do it.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're good.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I love this one.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Understand your kids' digital world.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think it's actually really great to learn about what turns them on.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they're a younger kid and all they're doing is YouTubing, go into their YouTube world and be like, what do you like to watch?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're watching cats, you know?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, I just cats, and it's like, oh, what are the watching the cute cats do for you?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it makes them feel good.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's a dopamine rush with watching little kittens like do cute things, you know, or maybe they're like watching some pretty hardcore how to make a bomb.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, so I think or porn, which is another thing.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole other conversation.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do think that it's really important to be in their online world and in their real-time world.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just as important, and then it leads to a tricky question of do I read my kids' texts?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that also is gonna vary for different ages.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like that's actually a bigger conversation.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: We can't well.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what I want to invite our listeners to do.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I know, Deb, and one of the reasons I want to pass that torch back to you just now is that you've taught a lot of classes where you have been talking about this and encouraging parents to be thoughtful and and and how to how to set these sort of values and rules and family systems while staying in connection.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I would just like to say that if you want to hear more about this from Deb, you've got tons of um classes and workshops coming up.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: People can find it on your website.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: We'll put a link to that in the show notes.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Always there's a link to that in the show notes, but and then we'll put these in the show notes as well.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I I think this is like a really good place for a deeper dive.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I just want folks to know that you can deeper deep diver with them in some of these classes that you're taking.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: I would love that.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if you also have really specific questions, send us a message.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Send us to move.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: We will address it.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: We want to hear from you.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: We do, we want to hear from you.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like um I learned a lot today.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Me too.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, it's always I'm always reminded how I think I know what I'm thinking and feeling about things.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you and I sit down with a bubbly water or a glass of beer or a coffee or a walk, that all of a sudden I'm like, oh, okay, it's helpful, just think out loud.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for thinking out loud with me about this today.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you too.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you too.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there's always room to reset.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just say that.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Always all of us, like, hey, we've been on vacation, let's reset.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much wisdom there.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so much wisdom.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much to talk about.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much to talk about.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, we can come back if people need us too.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to mention our sponsor for um for this podcast.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: So um it's actually interesting that we are talking about technology use.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: And when our sponsor today is the one clock.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: And if anyone has um not visited one clock o-n-e-cl-o-c-k.co, one clock is an amazing clock that's an alarm clock that gets technology out of the bedroom, right?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's all the one clock is all designed to um to encourage healthy wake cycles because when we wake up healthy, we actually fall to sleep healthy at the end of the day.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: So um oneclock.co, check it out.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um please, please, please, if you like this podcast, we want you to visit, subscribe, and rate us.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: And rate us.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: Apparently, that's helpful for us.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: So please take a minute to rate and review and send to your friends.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: This has been really fun.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: We love having you guys with us here.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Love you, Deb.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Love you, Kate.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.