Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 228 ~ Dear President Johnson

Transcript

Ep. 228 ~ Dear President Johnson · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

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Everything is going to hail down here inductive on hight. Wow, what's up
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everybody? Welcome to the show. This is episode number two hundred and twenty
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freaking eight. This is your boy, Rob Clark big Man for another exciting
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episode of the Lone Gunman Podcast. That's right. I love this music given
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it's so fired up. Thank you again Roger and Shepherd on Fire for the
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music that you hear during this show. It comes straight from them. It's
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freaking awesome. It gets my blood moving, it's my veins throbbing. Love
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it. So thank you again, Shepherd on Fire, they Buddy Roger the
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other Man. I freaking love it. So on this episode, folks,
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two hundred and twenty eighth, get out your cleanex, get out your tissues.
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That's gonna be a very emotional episode. Promise. Oh, We're gonna
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first talk a little bit about missing Anti castro Cia pilot, alex Wark,
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Alexander work, and let's see. After that we're going to get into a
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little bit about the mob, the Mafia, Gienkada May, Hugh Roseally,
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Oh Kind. It's a good shit, I tell you. I promise you
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stick around. It's gonna be a good one. So let's first talk about
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Alexander work. Now. For those of you not familiar with the Alexander work
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case, um he was involved in overt anti caster missions for the CIA,
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and in nineteen sixty one he met Jeffrey Sullivan, who was a commercial pilot
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who he hired to help with these missions. Later that same year, the
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unsuccessful Bay of Pigs invasion occurred, and after that the CIA began conducting their
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missions much more secretly, and these were the missions that Jeffrey and Alex were
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involved in. However, the US government soon released a public warning issuing people
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like Jeffrey and Alex to stop their anti Cuba operations. Eight days after this
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warning was issued, on September the twenty third, nineteen sixty three, Jeffrey
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and Alex left an airstrip in Waterbury, Connecticut. Before they left, Jeffrey
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told his wife that this would be his last flight because he was going to
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stop being involved in this ship. The next day, they arrived in Fort
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Lauderdale, Florida, where they met two men. One was Frank Sturgis,
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who you may have heard of, folks who would later become involved in the
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Watergate Burglar scandal. Thurgis said that Alex told him that he had a BEAT
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twenty five bomber and that he was planning to take it to Nicolearaguay, which
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would become a base of operations for bombing missions into Cuba. Work soon rented
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an airplane, and the next day his wife picked up an unidentified man and
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took the five men to the local airport. Jeffrey, Alex, and the
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mystery man boarded the rented plane, while Sturgis, his companion, and Alex's
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wife stayed behind. For unknown reasons. The plane returned to Fort Lauderdale at
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least three times. The last time, the landing year remained up and the
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controller instructed them not to land. Five hours later, they landed at North
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Perry Airport, which was only thirty minutes away. Now. At one thirty
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pm that day, the plane left the again. It scheduled to land in
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Honduras. However, two hours later, Jeffrey radioed Miami International Airport and told
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them that he was rerouting to Panama, and finally, at ten twenty two
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pm, Jeffrey said that he was once again rerouting the plane, this time
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to Belize. The FAA stated that Jeffrey refueled the plane in Plazumel, Mexico,
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around midnight, and this was the last sighting of the plane. Despite
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a massive search, neither the plane nor the documents were ever found. Over
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two decades later, Jeffrey's daughter, Sherry, now a private investigator, began
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to search for her father's fate. He and her lawyer petitioned the government for
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information about Jeffrey. More than a third of the papers that she received from
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the FBI were censored, and the FBI documents she found the name of Floyd
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Hark. She contacted Floyd and he claimed that he had seen Jeffrey, Alex,
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and the unidentified man in Belize two days after they were last seen.
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However, she was able to get little other information from Floyd, and she
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is uncertain of his true identity or his connection to her father. The only
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other information she got from Floyd is that Jeffrey and Alex may have been taken
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prisoner in Cuba, and that Fidel Castro was aware of their operations and placed
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and had placed a bounty on the two men's heads. In nineteen eighty six,
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Sherry came in contact with Marty Casey, a journalist who was in Cuba
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in nineteen sixty five while in Cuba, the Cuban exile told him that he
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knew two men from the United States, one he called Rourke and the other
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Sullivan. The man said that he was with them in a Cuban prison in
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nineteen sixty three, around the time that they had vanished. She believed that
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the ones in prison were her father and Alex. Another name that she found
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in the FBI documents was Enrique Melina Garcia. Garcia was supposedly a double agent
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for Castro's government. She believes that Garcia was the mysterious unidentified man that flew
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with them when they vanished. She believes that Garcia tricked them into flying to
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Cuba, where they were then captured. Unconfirmed reports placed Garcia in Havana,
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Cuba, several years after Jeffrey and Alex advantaged. She will not give up
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until she finds out what truly happened to her father and Alex. Enriquie Melina
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Garcia is suspected of tricking Jeffrey and Alex into flying to Cuba. Cherry believes
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that they were held prisoner there for several years. Floyd Park is another man
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that she would like to identify and locate. The case first aired on December
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nineteenth, nineteen ninety episode of Unsolved Mysteries. As of August two thousand and
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nine, a main court downd Cuba guilty of the wrongful death of Jeffrey Sullivan.
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Jerry believes now that he was shot down by the Cubans, taken prisoner
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portraited for a decade, and finally executed. However, in twenty twelve,
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a federal court reversed the decision. He's continuing to fight to get the case
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back in court and hopes to recover his remains one day. Neither Jeffrey nor
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alex have ever been found. So that is a little bit of background on
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alex Work and Jeffrey Sullivan. A little more on Alexander Roarke specifically, we
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have to Christopher Othan's word press site where he writes that on September the twenty
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fourth, nineteen sixty three, Alexander Irwin Junior climbing to a twin engine plane
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at Fort Lauderdale Airport and was never seen again. The good looking thirty seven
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year old with black hair and blue eyes was a well known figure in the
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murky world of Florida anti communism. He had been a freelance photojournalist in Cuba
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covering Fidel Castro's revolution until critical comments about the new regime's left word drift got
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him in trouble. From jail time and a deportation order. Later, he
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was up to his neck in CI agents, right wing have Cuban exiles,
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soldiers of fortune, and ultra conservative American patriotism. In nineteen sixty one,
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he scattered anti Castro leaflets all over Havana by airplane. The next year his
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secret boat trips to Cuba for guerrilla warfare. Early in sixty three, he
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was back in the air bombing a Cuban oil refinery. FBI agents warned him
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off, but Rourke ignored them. Now he had another mission. When Roke
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failed to return, his hysterical wife called her father. Now Sherman Billingsley was
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a sixty seven year old nightclub owner who never really liked his son in law.
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He wouldn't even allow him in the damn house, and when Jacqueline brought
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little Alex the third bye for visits, Alex Rourke had to wait outside the
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mansion in the car. Billingsley had convinced himself that marriage to a slick charmer
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was just a bit of rebellion by his favorite daughter. Her sobbing voice on
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the telephone finally convinced him otherwise. Oh my god, you really loved him,
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said Sherman Billingsley in surprised. He reached out to his contacts and was
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a very influential man. He was the owner of the Sport Club, an
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exclusive night spot for the rich and famous. Ernest Hemingway, Orson, Welles,
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ethel Merman all had been regulars. These days, the club was on
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the slide, but billings Lee still had important friends, and most of them
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prepared to overlook stories of his youthful bootlegging adventures. And he asked the FBI
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for help. But he wasn't the only one to ask the FBI for help.
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Folks, get out your tissues, Get out your tissues. This is
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going to be a rough one. I am going to attempt to recreate the
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voice of this young lady. Hold on for a second. Let me see
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if this worked. Hi, do I sound like a little girl or a
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little boy? Kind of sound like a little boy. Let me see if
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I could make it sound more like a little girl. Hold on, Oh
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hello, hello, hello, hello, um um, hold on, hold
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on, hold on, hold on. Uh, well, I guess it
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is a little boy that you will be getting, but actually, actually,
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actually it's a little girl. Okay. January twenty second, nineteen sixty Heaven,
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Dear President Johnson, to be honest with you. In my heart,
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I believe you could tell us what happened to my daddy. Every time I
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say my prayers, I have a feeling he is alive, and I ask
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God to bring him back to us. His name is Alexander El Rourke Junior,
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and he has been missing for three whole years and three dreadful months.
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My mama's father died about three months ago. My Grandpa, Alexander L.
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Rourke Senior is very sick and we know he can't live much longer. I
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imagine if something happened to you and your daughter tried to find out what happened
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to you, how would you feel? Last time I wrote you, but
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I received a nice letter from mister j Edgar Hoover. I think many people
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know what happened to him, but I have a funny feeling you are the
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only one who was then in position to tell us. Please tell me I
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want my father, and if you would, it would mean so much to
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my grandpa. Respectfully, yours, Hazel Lord. Okay, okay, folks,
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I'm back. Wow. I did, thank you, Hazel. Ah.
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They don't. Johnson didn't answer her, of course, because he's too
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much of a piece of shit. But j Edgar who over did Now he's
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a piece of shit too, But at least he answered this poor girl.
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Okay, Dear miss Hazel Rook, your letter to President Johnson concerning your missing
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father, Alexander L. Rock Jr. Has been referred to me. I've
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received a letter on February third, nineteen sixty seven, and today is February
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seventh, nineteen sixty seven. I regret to tell you but we have received
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no information as to the whereabouts of your father. The missing person notices,
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of course being continued in our identification files, and you may be sure that
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any information we do receive will be forwarded immediately to you. As I have
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pointed out to you and to mister William hs Wark, Senor, we do
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not have the authority to conduct an active investigation to locate your father. Sorry,
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sincerely, Dad Gohova. Now there's a note on the bottom of this
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letter that I don't believe was sent as part of the letter to Hazel,
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but it says note mp I dent Alexander Urwin work junior FBI number five hundred
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nine to eleven B file blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Clerical employee
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of New York Office nineteen fifty one from February of nineteen fifty one to May
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of nineteen fifty one, resigned to resume studies, became soldier of Fortune,
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anti caster and photographer. Newspaperman disappeared September sixty three with his pilot, allegedly
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bound for Hunt Duras, but presumed to have died in a bombing rate over
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Qua Core is apparently ten years old. When last letter was acknowledged on six
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fifteen sixty four. Hills omitted from address ported to zip code direct blah blah
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blah. So the FBI pretty much thinks that he was killed in a bombing
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radio for QUBA, but didn't tell young Hazel that. Wow, it's on
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January thirty. First, we have this FBI memorandum on Friday, January twenty
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eight, nineteen sixty six, Richard Berlin, president of the Hearst Corporation.
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Now that's the big newspaper conglomerate folks who was well known to the director.
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Dagger Hoover, and the Bureau telephonically contacted mister Cartha Deloche to Berlin advised that
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he had a very athetic letter from Missus Alexandria el Rot Junior, known as
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Hazel, who was formerly Jacqueline. No, I'm sorry, not Hazel,
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who was formerly Jacqueline Billingsley, the daughter of Sherman Billingsley Cooly. In her
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letter to Berlin, Missus Rourke stated that she was desperate and asked Berlin if
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he could be of any assistance in helping her locate her husband. Berlin,
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in turn advised method mister Delouche that he would be most appreciative of any information
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we could give him regarding Rourke which might be of possible assistance to Missus Rourke.
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All right, and so he tells them, this is all the information
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we have in our bureau files. He worked for US for three months in
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nineteen fifty one, at which time he resigned to pursue further education. At
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one time, he was being counseled by the CIA. However, that agency
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informed on June twenty five, sixty two, that had no operational interest in
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Rourke, considering to be too much of a quote loose talk her. In
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April sixty three, Work publicly announced having bombed Havannah, and the Attorney General
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was interested in this claim, and we conducted extensive investigation. Facts were submitted
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to the Department, and prosecution was not authorized, whereupon our investigation was dustily
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permanated. In September of sixty three, were Work and a companion left Florida
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in a rented plane. He is considered dead by other soldiers of Fortune with
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whom he associated. Work's father is a former assistant District Attorney of New York
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County, and he wrote to the Director on eleven, twelve, sixty three,
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requesting assistance and locating his son. His letter was orally acknowledged by our
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New York office, and it was pointed out to mister Rourke that his son
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apparently disappeared while outside the limits of the United States, and that our jurisdiction
19:56
is confined to this country and it's possessions. We have subsequently received letters from
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both Work's daughter, granddaughter, an uncle asking for our assistance in locating Rourke.
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In each case they have been advised of our jurisdiction and the fact that
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we cannot be of assistance. The family of Rourke have apparently conducted extensive investigation
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on their own and have widely circulated both in this country and in Latin American
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countries, a circular concerning Rourke offering a twenty five thousand dollars reward to the
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first person or persons to produce them in any port or city of the United
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States. All indications, as far as b files go, are that Rourke
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is dead. We have no verified information concerning him since he left at Florida
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Airport in September sixty three. Recommendation that mister Delos telephonically contacted mister Berlin and
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advise him in confidence of the above information and that we cannot be of help
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to missus Rourke. And then there's a handwritten note on here and says no,
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I do not want in any way to get involved in this. Berlin
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might advise Billingsley or his daughter, and I would be it would be public
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property Billingsley and roar many years ago, because would most utilize Bureau of Facilities
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and event the something I can't read. That last word seems like a shitty
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message. Attached to the bottom of that. So yeah, oh here it
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is. Somebody typed it on this next part the director. Okay, so
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Hoover wrote out on the last one, there's no I do not in any
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way you want to get involved in this. Berlin might advise Billingsley or his
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daughter and it would be public property. Billingsley and I broke many years ago
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because I would not utilize Bureau's facilities to prevent the marriage. So apparently Sherman
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Billingsley had reached out to jangar Whover many years ago when Rourke and his daughter
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were getting married and wanted any dirt that he had on Alexandra Rourke, and
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Hoover wouldn't help him. Wow recommendation. Then, in accordance with the director's
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instructions, mister de Loche telephonically contact mister Berlin and advise him that we can
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be of no help whatsoever concerning the Alexander Rourke matter and have a nice fucking
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dag no FBI baby, you know, tally roll. Wow. Anyway,
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I thought that was some interesting stuff about Alexander Worke and his affiliations and the
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response from his family and there please and their response from well, non response
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from Johnson in a response from Hoover in cars of the Loach in the FBI's
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position on it that basically, we're not getting involved in that. We want
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new parts of the Alexander Worke situation. We are done. He's dead as
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far as we're concerned. Have a great day. So here's that, all
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right. Next up, we have what I would say is a very good
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example of what the FBI knew and when they knew it, and what I
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mean by that, as they want let me take a sip of coffee.
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March sixth, nineteen sixty seven. Document subject, Now, this is going
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to WC. Sullivan and on there of course, CCED is Deloche and Tolson
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and Hoover. YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA. Subject Central Intelligence Agencies
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intentions to send hoodlums the Cuba, the casts who assassinate Castro. Yeah,
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the memo states, in accordance with instructions, the taxed letter has been prepared
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for Attorney General setting forth all data in our files concerning caption matter. Briefly,
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information being furnished is as follows. Matter first came to our attention in
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spring of nineteen sixty one. Folks in connection with our investigation of a violation
25:27
of unauthorized publication or use of communication statute on the part of Arthur James Balletti,
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arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada by local authorities on a wire tapping charge.
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Wiretap involved was on telephone of Dan Rowan, a member of the Rowan
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and Martin laugh In comedy team. Rowan, at the time reportedly was engaged
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to Phillis McGuire, a girlfriend of top hoodlum Sam Gancanna and member of the
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mcger Sisters singing trio. Through our investigation, we determined an involvement of Robert
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Mayhew, a private detective who stated coverage on Rowan instituted in behalf of Central
26:12
Intelligence Agency efforts to obtained Cuban intelligence data through hoodlum element including Sam Gancana.
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Mayhew was in contact with Gancana through services of Johnny Rosselli, another hoodlum,
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and Mayhew authorized wiring of Rowan's room. We checked the matter with CIA on
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May third, nineteen sixty one, and learned CIA was utilizing Mayhew as intermediary
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with sam Gancana relative to the CIA's quote dirty business anti Castro activities. CIA
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insisted it did not give Mayhew any instructions relative to use of technical installations.
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By letter May twenty seconds sixty one, we furnished former Attorney General Kennedy a
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memorandum containing a rundown on CIA's involvement in this. The originals of the letter
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and memorandum were returned to US for filing purposes. A copy of that memorandum
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is being attached to instant letter being sent to a turn in General. On
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May the ninth, nineteen sixty two, Kennedy discussed with the Director a number
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of matters, including the admission by CIA that Robert Mayhew had been hired by
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that agency who approached Sam Gancanna to have Castro assassinated at a cost of one
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hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which was a fuck ton of money. In
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nineteen sixty two, Kennedy stated he had issued orders that the CIA should never
27:52
undertake such steps again without first checking with the DOJ, and stated, because
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of this matter, it would be difficult to prosecute thugs like gan Khana or
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Mayhew then or in the future. We learned on June twentieth sixty three from
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the CIA that its contacts with John Rosselli. Mayhew's link with gen Kanna had
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continued up until that time, when they were reportedly cut off. It appears
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Roseli is using his prior connections with the CIA to his best advantage. In
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May of sixty six, when Bureau agents endeavored to interview him, he immediately
28:32
flew to Washington and informed his former CIA intermediary. The current Director of Security.
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CIA has advised through liaison channels that Roselli has CIA in an unusually vulnerable
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position, and Roselli would have no qualms about embarrassing the CIA to serve his
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own interests and furnishing this information. We were asked that it be withheld within
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the Bureau on a strictly need to know basis. We have, however,
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included it in the attached proposed letter to the Attorney General noting this CIA specific
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restriction. We have two other references in our files to the overall above information,
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which we have included in the letter. One relates to a statement by
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Giancana in October of sixty that he had met with an individual who was to
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assassinate Castro in November of nineteen sixty. The other as an article in the
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eight sixteen issue of the Chicago Sun Times reporting the CIA agents had contacted Giancanna
29:34
to obtain Cuban intelligence action. If approved, attached letter will be sent to
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Attorney General with a copy for the Deputy Attorney General, and then there's a
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handwritten note on here. The Attorney General asked for this information on Friday,
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March the third, nineteen sixty seven. Future esting let the ship show continue.
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February seventeen, nineteen sixty seven, we have another FBI memorandum concerning David
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Franklin Joseph Black. I'm assuming this is all one person and not two.
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Not David Franklin and Joseph Black, but David Franklin Joseph Black. Oye of
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four names, Department seven three twenty one twenty one p as in Penis Street,
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Northwest, Washington, DC appeared at the Washington Field Office in February the
30:42
first, nineteen sixty seven, and related a lengthy, rambling, non specific
30:48
complaint concerning individuals he has met or become acquainted with during the past several years.
30:55
He accused these unnamed individuals as being part of the communist conspiracy to capture
31:00
the youth of the United States by teaching in the United States schools and educational
31:06
areas. Black telephonically contacted the Washington Field Office on February seventh, Hey,
31:11
that's my birthday, nineteen sixty seven, and contended he had valuable information which
31:18
would enable the United States government to decipher every code system used by Communist nations.
31:23
However, he stated he had already spoken to a representative of the National
31:29
Security Agency in reference to those matters and would not disclose same to the Federal
31:33
buwer of investigation since this agency had no quote need to know. Black continued
31:41
to ramble about having valuable information concerning such matters as psychological warfare utilized by Communist
31:49
spies in the United States, information concerning how Lak Ruby was hypnotized in the
31:56
murdering Lee Harvey Oswald, concerning communists methods of financing operations in the United States
32:06
through the sale of narcotics and ancient Egyptian relics. Information with reference to the
32:13
recent medical operations conducted at John Hopkins University in which males were effectively transformed into
32:19
females and vice versaile by the use of hormones, which system was being used
32:27
by Communist agents in the United States in order to avoid disclosure, information of
32:31
why unidentified flying objects had been mysteriously reported and every nation in the world,
32:37
with the exception of Saudi Arabia, information concerning communist control of all mental institutions
32:45
in the United States, and information that all radical groups operating on college campuses
32:52
in the United States were formed and organized by communists to affect control of the
32:59
American ute the utes. Black stated he was a member of the United States
33:06
Naval Reserve Sufface Division five forty DASHAM, located at the Naval Gun Factory,
33:13
Washington, DC, and had related his allegations and discoveries to his commanding officer,
33:17
Lieutenant Commander Eugene T. Kalman. Black also mentioned having spent a thirteen
33:23
hour session Oh God Damn with Agent Fox Molder with Agent Robert J. Walman,
33:30
Investigator, National Security Agency, regarding his discoveries. He was unable to
33:36
provide any specific information regarding his alleged discoveries other than to say he had reached
33:42
these conclusions after painstaking and thorough research. When interviewed in person on February the
33:47
first, nineteen sixty seven, Black provided his birthdate as April the eighth,
33:52
nineteen forty five. However, during his telephone conversations on February seven, nineteen
33:58
sixty seven, he listed his date as July eighth, nineteen forty five.
34:07
On both occasions, his place of birth was given as Brooklyn Naval Yard,
34:09
Brooklyn, New York. Mike furnished the following background information concerning himself employment presently
34:20
unemployed. Shocker. Previous employment nineteen sixty three to sixty five as a data
34:27
equipment operator at the Naval Security Station National Security Agency three eight one Nebraska Avenue,
34:35
Northwest was a top secret crypto clearance hang on a second Okay Saint John's
34:45
High School, Washington, DC, nineteen sixty three, US Naval Academy eight
34:49
months dropped out for personal reasons George Washington University and the University of Maryland.
34:58
Relatives father, deceased mother. They're presently employed by the Department of the Army
35:01
at the Pentagon. Unnamed brother. Yeah, he graduated from the Naval Academy
35:10
in nineteen fifty seven, currently assigned to the Pentagon as a Lieutenant commander.
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Like I stated, he's presently unemployed while waiting word from the Department of the
35:20
Navy which will enable him to be in training as a naval officer candidate in
35:23
September sixty seven. So okay, easy to rate this guy off as a
35:30
fucking nut nut job, right what it sounds like. But then he's got
35:36
all these bona fides and credentials and education and military experience, a top secret
35:42
crypto clearance and you know, a formal education, and all of his family
35:50
is working in the Pentagon. Huh yeah, maybe he can't. He's so
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easily dismissed. Who the hell was hypnotized Jack Ruby into killing Lee Harvey Oswald?
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The world will never know, as apparently they didn't follow up on it.
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Folks, imagine that. Imagine that you never know, You never know
36:25
what you're dealing with. So well, from one alleged nut job to another.
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Let's talk about James Files for a minute, shall we. Yeah that
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James Files. You know, the guy who admitted to being on the Grassy
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Knole and shooting in President the head with a Rimanton fireball prototype given to him
36:49
by somebody at the CIA. Yeah, that James Files. So what I
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have here is a little a little background. Right when mister Files and a
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couple of interviews conducted by the FBI of mister James files, here's their assessment.
37:34
Files appeared to have an academic rather than personal knowledge of the Chicago outfit.
37:39
It is noted that Files failed to provide knowledge of Chuck Nicolette's affiliation with
37:44
the Street Crew indoor affiliation with other Street Crew members. During the interview,
37:51
Files feigned familiarity familiarity with names of individuals who were represented to him by interviewing
38:00
agents as Chicago mobsters. Now, what the FBI was actually doing was asking
38:07
him, you know, they were asking him, you know, if he
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knew certain people, and they were given they were feeding him names. Hey,
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you know this guy? You know that guy, and interspersed with the
38:20
real people they were asking him about. They also threw in a bunch of
38:23
Italian sounding FBI agents names. Files recollections of his military career did not appear
38:36
very credible. Files failed to articulate intimate recollections of airborne training. Files recollection
38:43
of his CIA recruitment during an interview was inconsistent to his statement made to Attorney
38:46
Don Irvin. During the interview, Files were called that while pending discharge at
38:52
Fort Meade, he was sent to hind the VA Hospital in Maywood, Illinois
38:57
for unspecified psychological treatment. Files stated that his CIA controllers signed him out of
39:02
haze or hind sorry, but whereafter he assumed the controller or the or the
39:07
CIA handled his discharge. In files statement to Irvin, Files advised that he
39:14
was recruited by the CIA after receiving a dishonorable discharge. Fines's VA records failed
39:20
to show Files aka Sutton was ever admitted to the medical songe. Files was
39:25
also inconsistent in regard to his observation allegedly made at the Kennedy shooting. An
39:31
urban statement, Files said he saw Nicolette shoot Kennedy. During the interview,
39:36
Files back down and said he assumed that Nicolette had shot Kennedy. It was
39:42
the opinion of interviewing agents to files recollections of the Kennedy assassination were also academic
39:46
rather than personal. When asked to describe how he felt overshooting Kennedy, Files
39:52
was unable to articulate any response as to his personal feelings. Chicago considers this
40:00
matter has erupped, otherwise known as fuck No. I have no idea what
40:07
RUC impossibly d means, but I'm guessing it's not good. As in,
40:14
this guy is full of shit. What they do their due diligence credit to
40:20
the FBI. So in August of nineteen ninety three, PM Surgis, a
40:25
special assistant to the Director of the Hines Medical Center, Veterans Administration and Maywood,
40:31
Illinois, was telephonically contacted a special Agent Wayne Zdron, wherein the following
40:38
was discussed. Surges was requested to verify that he James Earl Sutton also known
40:45
as James Earl Files date of birth one twenty four or forty two ever admitted
40:52
to Hines. Surgis was told that Sutton said that, while on active duty
40:59
in the US Army was awaiting court martial at Fort Meade, he was sent
41:01
to Hines for psychological testing or treatment. Surgis was told that Sutton would likely
41:07
have been admitted to Hines sometime in early nineteen sixty. Thurges advised that she
41:14
caused the search to be made at her agency and advised that her agency's records
41:19
failed to show that a James Earl Sutton or a James Earl Files was ever
41:23
admitted to Hines. Surgis added that the record search encompassed that above requested time
41:30
period. Surgis advised that during the above time period, there were no security
41:36
force at HINES, and thus Hines would not have accepted an active duty soldier
41:40
who would have been ordered under confinement. Thurgis added that it was a rare
41:45
case where Hines treated active duty personnel and that the occasion would had to have
41:52
been for a specialized treatment. Surgis further advised that veterans who have received a
41:58
less than honorable discharge are not eligible for admission to a VA medical facility.
42:06
Hacker Files as full as Shit. Clifford Smith at Correctional Center Madges number four
42:15
three three at the State Bill Correctional Center of Juliet, Illinois, was interviewed
42:21
whearing the following was discussed. Smith advised that James Files, Illinois Department of
42:27
Correction number in one four zero zero six it has incarcerated in the h Wing
42:34
of State Bill. Smith advised that the h wing houses inmates under protective custody
42:39
and or that have psychological disorders. Smith advised that he was unaware of File
42:47
circumstances as to being housed in the h Wing. Smith added that Files had
42:52
requested the h Wing. Smith rendered an opinion that Files the occasion opted for
42:59
a protect did Wing rather than be subjected to certain abuse in general population,
43:04
which is almost totally comprised of black or Latino inmates with street gang affiliations.
43:10
Smith added that there are very few Caucasian inmates in Stateville. Smith then learned
43:15
from telephone conversation with correctional offer be No White, that Files has told almost
43:22
everyone that he either participated in or knows about the jfk assassination. Smith added
43:28
that White related to Files as a dangerous look in his eyes. Smith were
43:32
called the White also advised that Files reads quite a bit and frequents the library.
43:40
Imagine that we were told that he Files wanted to make available to quote
43:50
true story of the jeffk assassination out of respect to the deceased Joe West.
43:58
Lad has told Files that, in view of his obvious conflicts with the Warrant
44:00
Commission findings, that he would unlikely be afforded subsequent opportunities for an interview by
44:07
the FBI or the US Attorney in regard to the jfk assassination unless he establishes
44:13
his credibility with the government. Files was told that credibility could sometimes be established
44:19
through corroboration of facts furnished by an individual during an interview. Agents told Files
44:24
that the purpose of the interview was to obtain additional information from him in an
44:29
effort to establish him as a credible person, rather than to build a murder
44:34
case on him. Miles was told that the JFK assassination took place almost thirty
44:38
years ago and it would take extraordinary corroboration to make recollations credible. Recollections credible
44:45
in view of the warnant commission finding Agents told Files that he should decide.
44:50
Should he decide to answer questions, it would need to be a voluntary action
44:53
on his part. Files was repeatedly told that no immunity grant or any other
44:59
guarantee be extended to him should he decide to be interviewed. And response,
45:04
Files stated that he would voluntarily answer questions, but he would not admit to
45:09
any murders. Agents asked Files to state his true name and background. Files
45:16
advising that his true name was James Rose Sutton, but that sometime in sixty
45:21
three he assumed the name of James Files and has been none as James Files
45:23
ever since. Files excuse me. Files recalled that sometime in the late forties,
45:30
he moved to the Chicago metropolitan area with his mother, Vera Brasil and
45:37
resided at one twenty North twenty second Melrose Park, Illinois. Files advised that
45:43
he has divorced from Faith Files, aged fifty, who was last known to
45:47
reside in Glendale Heights, Illinois. Lyles stated that he had two children from
45:52
his marriage, Kathleen aged twenty six and Sean at age seventeen. Files recalled
45:58
that Kathleen was last under reside in Crystal Lake, Illinois, and Seawan and
46:01
Melburn's Park. Agents made reference to his files military service in the US Army
46:08
and asked Files to summarize his military career. Files recalled that he joined the
46:14
US Army under the last name of Sutton. He said he was afforded basic
46:17
training at Fort Leonard Wood and advanced infantry training at Fort Polpe. Files recalled
46:23
that after a I T he volunteered for airborne training. It was afforded airborne
46:28
training at both Fort Bragg and Fort Benning. Files advised that he was assigned
46:32
to the eighty second Airborne Division. Agents asked Files to describe his airborne training.
46:39
Files recalled that airborne school was six to eight weeks in duration and that
46:45
he had made four jumps, including one night jump. Files recalled that Airborne
46:50
School consisted of significant classroom instruction before he made his jumps. Files also recalled
46:54
that while in Airborne School, he was afforded crash courses in Chinese, Layout,
47:00
Layoutian, and Russian languages, but as to recall anything eventful, either
47:06
rewarding or distasteful about Airborne School, Files was unable to articulate anything in that
47:10
regard. Files recalled that after Airborne School, he was briefly stationed in San
47:15
Diego, Oki, Nahwah, and Vietnam before being employed to Layout. Files
47:23
recollection that in layouts he held the rank of Spec four and was assigned to
47:29
a special advisory group. Files recalled that his group specialized in small arms weapons
47:35
and mechanical ambushes. Agents asked Files to state details over his shooting of two
47:40
years soldiers in Layouts. Files stated his refusal to admit to the shooting.
47:46
The stated that he was charged for the shooting. Files recalled that he was
47:51
afforded a preliminary court martial somewhere in Southeast Asia and was assigned to Fort Meade,
47:55
Maryland to await his court martial. Then recalled that he was being transferred
48:01
to Hines Veteran Hospital in Heywood, Illinois, for psychological related treatment. Files
48:09
then recalled while at Hines, he was visited by here we Go David Atleas
48:15
Phillips, who identified himself as some kind of controller for the CIA. Files
48:21
recalled that Phillips act him to train people in the use of military arms and
48:24
tactics. Files recalled it upon accepting Phillips's offer, Phillips signed him out of
48:30
Hines. Flows assumed that Phillips or the CIA handled his discharge from the Army.
48:37
Flows then recalled that following his release from Hines, Phillips arranged a brief
48:42
stay for him at a sleazy motel in the Florida Everglades. Files recalled it
48:47
from November nineteen sixty until sixty one of April, he was part of a
48:52
group ten Americans, including Frank Sturgis, who trained a military force of three
48:59
hundred and fifty Cuba at that camp. Files advised that he was qualified as
49:04
an expert with the M won four rifle in the army and taught grenades and
49:09
mechanical ambushes to the Cubans. Files recalled that he was a paid He was
49:15
paid a salary of three hundred dollars a month in cash by Phillips. Files
49:21
described Phillips as a white male, six feet tall, slim build, thirty
49:24
years of age. In nineteen sixty, Files recalled that Phillips had a nickname
49:30
of the Eagle at the camp in the Florida Averleage. Files recalled that after
49:37
the Cuban soldiers were killed, he Files went briefly to Atlanta, where he
49:42
partied with liquor and women. Files then recalled that he returned to Melrose Park,
49:46
Illinois, where he ran guns from Maywood, Illinois to Clinton, Louisiana.
49:52
Files recalled that the guns were forty five caliber machine guns made by the
49:57
Knoxville Arms Company. Files ad that Phillips paid him three hundred dollars a month
50:00
to transport guns to Clinton, Louisiana and deliver guns to Lee Harvey Oswald.
50:07
Files recalled he made several trips to Clinton, Louisiana to deliver guns to Oswald.
50:15
Ry agents asked Files if the aforementioned Lee Harvey Oswald was the same one
50:21
in shot Kennedy. In response, Files stated that Oswald didn't shoot Kennedy.
50:25
Files adamantly disputed the fact that Oswald shot Kennedy and made reference to the fact
50:30
that Oswald tested negative on a paraffin test. Agents then made reference to Chuck
50:36
Nicolette and his relationship with Chicago mobsters. In response, Files furnished Agents with
50:42
three pages containing numerous handwritten names. Files advised that the names were of Chicago
50:47
mobsters with whom he had familiarity. Agents subsequently examined the above material and noticed
50:53
that the names were arranged in alphabetical order, and that most names were names
50:58
of Chicago Hullams who have been afied by the Chicago media as having association with
51:02
the Chicago mob. U can't make the shit up, folks. While questioning
51:12
Files some more, and they asked about a lot of Chicago Maffi stuff while
51:15
skip over here people you never heard of, I would never heard of.
51:21
Agents then made reference to the JFK assassination. Files stated that Nicolette told him
51:25
that he Nicolette got the contract that hit Kennedy from sam Gancanna. Files then
51:31
advised that before Kennedy was shot, he Files, at the request of Nicolette,
51:36
transported guns and hand grenades in a car from Chicago to Dallas. Files
51:43
advised he had heard Nicolette and an individual he knew that Johnny Roselli played the
51:47
assassination of Kennedy. Agents asked Files if he actually saw Nicolette she Kennedy,
51:53
and Files stated that he did not actually see Nicolette shoot Kennedy. Files added
51:59
that since Nicolette planned the assassination and was there by the Dalt text building,
52:07
he knows that Nicolette was the one who shot at Kennedy. Special agents I
52:14
drawn then read and verbade him to Files the following excerpt of the report previously
52:17
furnished to the FBI by Attorney Don Irvin. Quote. When the motorcade came
52:23
through, Files was on the knoll, behind the fence and under the limbs
52:28
of a tree. As Kennedy's limo approached, Files began hearing shots from behind
52:32
the president he had Kennedy's or he had Kennedy in his telescopic site. He
52:39
knew that one of the shots that Kennedy in the back, but was not
52:43
necessarily a fatal hit. Files, while having Kennedy in his crosshairs as the
52:47
limo was moving, said to himself upon hearing each shot miss miss miss.
52:54
At this point, Files was concerned that Nicolette would not kill Kennedy. The
53:00
car was passing in his field of vision, so that Missus Kennedy would soon
53:02
be lined up behind the President. Files instructions had always been that any hit,
53:08
no innocent parties were to be harmed. Files was afraid that if he
53:13
shot any later that he would shoot Missus Kennedy as well as the President.
53:17
He made the decision to go ahead and shoot, even though Chucky was still
53:23
apparently shooting. He fired, and his shot hit Kennedy on the right front
53:28
temple between the ear and the eye, with the bullet exiting the rear of
53:31
the head. And almost the same instant of this shot, Chucky hit Kennedy
53:36
in the left rear top of the head. Files saw Missus Kennedy climb to
53:39
the back of the limo and pick up a section of the President's head.
53:43
He was also aware at this time that Connolly had been hit. Agents asked
53:49
Files to comment about the accuracy of the statement. In response, Files expressed
53:53
displeasure over irving providing any statement to the FPI from him. Files ad that
54:00
he would only admit that the statement was accurate as to the actions of Nicolette
54:04
and Roselli. Files added that he was concerned over his exposure to additional charges.
54:09
Agents asked Files to explain the discrepancy contained in the above excerpt the statement
54:15
and what he said during this interview, namely that that statement indicated that he
54:20
Files saw Nicolette shoot at Kennedy, where during this interview he admitted he did
54:25
not actually see Nicolette shoot Kennedy. Files did not provide an explanation in that
54:31
regard. Agents asked Files if any people were near him while he openly displayed
54:38
his two two two pistol with scope on the grass you know one dearly plaza.
54:44
Files recalled that there were other people in the area. Agents asked Files
54:50
to describe his feelings after he shot Kennedy. When Files failed to respond,
54:54
agents asked if he felt good, bad, or indifferent or even fear getting
54:59
caught. Files did not provide an explanation in that regard, except for stating
55:04
that he hated Kennedy for not providing air support for the Cubans in the Bay
55:07
of Pigs. Agents asked Files if he would submit to a polygraph in regard
55:15
to the Kennedy assassination. Files stated that he would refuse to take a polygraph
55:21
examination matter that agents asked Files to state his motive for revealing his knowledge of
55:28
the Kennedy assassination after almost thirty years. Files stated that he was contacted by
55:32
Joe West, who said he was referred to him by an unnamed FBI agent.
55:37
Files recalled that West told him that an FBI agent said Files previously took
55:42
him on a tour in Dallas and told him about the Kennedy assassination. Files
55:47
denied talking to any FBI agent in that regard. Files added that until this
55:53
interview, he could not recall having any discussions of any substance with an FBI
55:58
agent. Files then advised that he wanted a grant of immunity because West had
56:02
expressed his intent to subpoena him before the grand jury investigating the Kennedy assassination.
56:10
Files reiterated his concern or exposure to additional charges following a possible favorable appeal to
56:16
his current conviction. Agents asked Files if he had expected any consideration in exchange
56:23
for his information relating to the Kennedy assassination. Files stated he did not expect
56:30
or want any consideration for his information. Files stated he was not concerned if
56:35
anyone ever learned about his information on the Kennedy assassination. Agents told Files that
56:40
Urban's report indicated that Files had possible information in regard to other murders. Files
56:45
stated that he would not provide the information that could put him put anyone in
56:50
jail. Files expressed concerned that the mob could retaliate against him by harming his
56:57
daughters, who reside in the Chicago area. Files denied that he was interviewed
57:01
and or sought an interview with the median and effort to publicize his recollections of
57:07
the Kennedy assassination. At the conclusion of the interview, Files was told that
57:12
agents would report the results with the interview to their headquarters. It is noted
57:16
that when Files was made available for interview, he carried several items of written
57:21
material. A quick review of this material revealed it to be correspondence between Files
57:28
and Joe West handwritten material in regard to the Kennedy assassination. So he had
57:36
written everything down, probably that he found at the local prison library, folks.
57:47
And that's why you just can't trust Addard rebody who says they were there,
57:54
who says they would take a shot, and says they knew lead Harvey
57:58
Oswald, who as they did this, You simply did that. Where is
58:06
the proof? Where's the proof? And without it, all you have is
58:13
a good story and that it's pretty much. Wow. That was loud.
58:24
Sorry, Yeah, that's pretty much. It just a story, no meat
58:32
on the bone. Folks. For those of you out here who'd like to
58:37
propagate the James files on the Grassy Old story, please stop, just stop,
58:45
please stop. You know, when you see a guy like I did
58:50
in twenty nineteen, when you see an old guy with messy white hair in
58:55
a shabby looking jacket wandering around the gray as you know, asking people you
59:00
know who I am, to stay away, you know this guy was half
59:07
for the person that he says that he was. It's saying anyway. That's
59:19
it for this week. Follow along on Twitter at the Lone Gumming seven,
59:23
on TikTok at the Loan Gumming seven. On YouTube search for the Lone Gumming
59:30
podcast, and on Facebook search for the Long Gumbing podcast. And make sure
59:35
you are checking out quick hits in News and Notes podcast on the jfk assassination
59:40
that I do was my buddy Doug. Make sure you're checking it out.
59:44
Damn it like share, learn, reveal what's your boy? They bad bye
59:57
bad out tell them Roger. So you are crooning from my kids and all
1:00:06
my friend side and my granther. That's don't go firing. What I damp,
1:00:15
that's my trouble my side. When I will always like he never gone
1:00:25
away, I will wait for around fire dying when I was alone with my
1:00:57
view and soul, I will be bouround bid. In my grandma, you
1:01:07
were flowing from the kiss of all the friend brother side in my Grandma.
1:01:17
That's also faring. But the damnage that's a shall star in my time in the