Latest / Long Distance Friends / What Postpartum Anxiety Actually Feels Like - with Annie Vaganay

Transcript

What Postpartum Anxiety Actually Feels Like - with Annie Vaganay · Long Distance Friends

• Annie: when I found out about my pregnancy with Logan, all the joy was gone. there was no pink glasses. There was no glow. There was nothing. was fear. I'm not going to get attached right now. gave life to an anxiety that I have never. experienced, we're Anna Casey: Hmm. Wow. Annie: I could I could not get through a single day without having an actual meltdown. I like messaged my OB and I was like, I need help. I'm not doing well. Don't carry shame about it. Know that there is treatment, it is effective, and it doesn't last forever. It doesn't last forever. This does not last forever. Anna Casey: So good. Annie: That thing is a part of our marriage. I'm not joking. I'm not joking. Anna Casey: welcome back to long distance friends. Today I have on my dear long distance friend, Annie Vagina. Annie and I met at Slam Clarksville. the army has a way of taking you around to different states. as you all know, and Annie and I were workout partners together one day and we just started goofing off and I'm like, I love this girl. I'm going to make her my friend. And since then, Annie has just been truly an absolute light and joy and One of the most fun friends I have ever had Like she makes me laugh more than anybody has ever made me laugh. She is my favorite person to text. She is the meme slash GIF Queen. Wait, first off, do you say GIF or JIF? Let's just get that out of the way. Okay. The GIF Queen has spoken. You can say GIF or JIF. Annie: I alternate because I never know. Anna Casey: But I have Annie on today because Annie recently walked through a really difficult pregnancy and postpartum season. And she was gracious enough to come on today and just have a very honest and real and reflective chat about... Annie: Mmm. Anna Casey: everything she learned slash is learning. And so we're probably gonna get a little deep today, a little real, but Annie, I am just so grateful for you for coming on today. Thank you for being here. Annie: Anna, thank you so much for having me. I... it's so nice to see like people that you love like flourish and from the day I met you I like I just like I could listen to you talk all day. So the fact that you found podcasting and then the army separated us I was like I can still listen to her all the time Like I can just put you in my headphones and like walk around. You are just such a light and I will never fully get over the fact that we had such like a small amount of time together in Clarksville, but that time I feel like was like so precious to me and like you just made such like a huge impact on my life and you continue to. so I just want to thank you for that. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. I love you so much, what does life look like for you right now? Like what is a typical day in the Vaginae household? Annie: day in the Vaginae household. we do have a new baby in the home. Arno is up and out of the house like super early. hits the gym and then he'll eventually come back and we're kind of waking up. I have realized that I need to start my day with some type of movement Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Annie: like 20-ish minutes, And discovering that, feel like has been one of the biggest keys for me. you know how in dog shows they do like the groups, I would very much so be like, I feel like one of the working dogs that like needs a job and like needs to be like doing something. So like I go out, I like, I always joke, I'm like, I'm Anna Casey: Yeah. Yes. Annie: myself for a walk, like instead of the dogs, like I'm not just taking the dog, I'm taking me for a walk. sometimes I listen to even like your podcast I'll put it in so like I can listen to a friend or sometimes I'll put on, yeah sometimes I put on music. A lot of times I like listening to podcasts though because I like feeling like I'm talking to someone. Or music or an audiobook. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Let's go. Annie: I love switching from like my audible to my Kindle. So like at night I can hold the book and then it catches up in my app or sometimes I'll Anna Casey: Mm. Ooh, wait, life hack, Annie: They like talk to each other. I can, if say I read like three chapters a night on my Kindle and then I pick up my audible the next day, it has fast forwarded and like picks me up. It's amazing. So yes. if you asked me how, I have no idea. Like, please don't ask me to explain it. I just, it happened for me. Which is amazing. Anna Casey: What? No way. That's a pro tip right there. I had no idea. Annie: Yes, so my Kindle is old as dirt, but works. I said this the other day and I was like, look at me using army lingo. But like the op tempo here is like really manageable, right? And it's just like, it feels very blessed and like idyllic. And I have to like pinch myself sometimes and be like, this is my life. Anna Casey: Ha. Annie: we are dinner from the table to the tub to our beds We are like a no mess around like family. are Arno and I are Arno and I are yeah We are back on the couch together by like 730 no kids Anna Casey: Yep. Same. Yes, yes, with the ninja creamies Annie: Yes, so on my notes, it's set the very last bullet point is creamy. That thing is a part of our marriage. I'm not joking. I'm not joking. And Arno and I have to be, sometimes I have to be like Annie, like not everyone wants to hear about your ninja creamy. But then you, but then you find, I was just gonna say, then you find people that do and you're like, yes. Anna Casey: I do. I've been influenced. Okay, so for those listening, explain the ninja creamy. Like what is a ninja creamy? Annie: So the Ninja Creamy, it all started when I went on a protein goal. I wanted to be the protein queen. I was like, need to ingest, I need to be eating more protein. I want to be healthier. I want to live forever is essentially my goal. Like I want to live forever. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Annie: and I think it was actually Arno who found a ninja creamy video on like Facebook Reels and he was like what is this and we found it's a it's an incredible product Anna Casey: Mm. Annie: I'm gonna try to sound like a, okay, I don't work for Ninja Creamy, okay? But I swear this thing, this thing. Anna Casey: Sponsor her ninja ninja sponsor her. Annie: This thing must have like a car motor in there because it all it sounds like it's about to blast off through the roof of the house when you use it. That's my only complaint is that she's loud. Okay, like and it shakes and you're just like like the couple first time is like I step back because I was like if that blade like spins out like we're all going down. We're all going down. It's not gonna be good. But you let them freeze overnight and then the next night when you're ready for like an ice cream treat because we're big into like couch treats Anna Casey: Yes. Annie: that's the last thing on what is a day in the life at the Vaginae house look like. It looks like Arno and I eating our creamies on the couch and... Yeah, by 730, maybe 8 o'clock on like a late night. Anna Casey: first off, like I love hearing about your days right now and your life right now and how happy you are. Because it was a little touch and go there for a minute, like this past year. And so it's awesome like seeing you on the other side of of everything that you've been through because it was really hard. And so Annie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anna Casey: Will you just like diving right into the deep end, will you share your story with your second pregnancy with Logan, how how that process was, and then everything through pregnancy and postpartum. just as much as you're willing to share, would just love to hear like that story because I know that it's been a big part of your life. Annie: Yes, let's dive. Yeah, I would love to. Yeah. Totally. And I think it can't go without being said that you are actually very deeply embedded in that story. Whether you know it or not, you do hold a space right at... Anna Casey: Aww. Annie: this crux of where we moved apart and you were pregnant and I desperately wanted to grow our family. And it became almost all consuming, right? To a point where I think back and I'm like, I don't know if that was necessarily a healthy want because yes, I really... Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Annie: I found such purpose in motherhood and when I came into it I was like, the ministry of motherhood, this is what I was meant to do. I never really felt this, not to be funny, but I never really felt a drive to work. I never had a career path that called to me. And that always felt really bizarre, because I had friends that wanted to do certain things. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Annie: And I never really had that. And then I had Juliet and it became a mother and I was like, like this is what I was put on this earth to do. Like this is my divine purpose. Like, and I know that you're not a stay at home mom forever, but right now, like this is it. And so, and it really, yeah, I don't want to like get too emotional about it, but like Juliet like completely. Anna Casey: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's beautiful. Annie: changed me as a woman, obviously, like motherhood does. And then, and not to say that it wasn't hard. mean, Arno was deployed the first nine months of her life. And so I was very much in motherhood alone. Even there, I was like, I've got this, like I've got it. Like, I love her and she loves me and it's pink and rosy and like, Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Annie: And then when it came to my little buddy. Anna Casey: She was your little buddy. Yeah. Annie: And so then when it came time to start thinking about like how we wanted to grow our family, it was an obvious like next step for me and for Arno. And I thought like we so much as. about Juliet and she was like conceived it felt like like we were like yeah well let's start a family and she was just there so I didn't think it would be any different which is such like a funny thing to say because any it was all different and so for for weeks and for months like I struggled with Anna Casey: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Annie: simultaneously being happy for friends or family or other people that I knew on internet or following on social media, like being pregnant, announcing pregnancies, and I was getting so down on myself. And I remember having to take a lot of steps back and being like, I am, because it was taking much longer than I thought. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Annie: And then I started to like feel something shift in me. because I was like, someone announced a pregnancy on Instagram and I was like, I'm not happy for you. I'm jealous and I'm mad that it's not me. hours would pass and I would just feel rotten inside. And I was like, that's disgusting Annie. Like, what do mean you're not like happy for them? This isn't about you. It's about them. And like, Anna Casey: Mm. Mm-hmm. Annie: If you're such a good friend, like, how are you not so excited? And instead you deleted Instagram for a week and you cried about it and you're like, you're feeling sorry for yourself. yeah, and like looking that in the face was also very, it was time for me to like grow up a little bit and be like, okay, well, what do you do next? And so then, Anna Casey: Mm. Yeah. But it's so relatable though. Like that is hard, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Annie: I overshot the mark there and I was like, well, maybe I have PCOS. Maybe I'm overweight and I can't conceive. And then it turned really kind of loony when this is where my thoughts begin to be like, okay, I was like, maybe they messed something up when Juliet was a C-section. was like, maybe they sewed me up wrong. Maybe they, like, and it becomes in that moment. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Wow, yeah. Annie: rational to me. Away from it? Crazy girl. Crazy girl. Like there's, that's not a thing. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Like there was so much uncertainty and no answers. And so your brain is like trying to find s like there has to be a reason, right? And so, right, yeah. Annie: yeah has to be. I was like what is it? was like is it the pre-workout we're taking? Like I like I approached Arno and I was like are we taking too much pre-workout? He was like no um and I was like reading the back of creatine and I was like if anything this is this should be helping like let's double the dose um and then Anna Casey: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Annie: I remember you were actually about to have Mia and I FaceTimed you from my bathroom in North Carolina and I was so excited because I was pregnant and I like FaceTimed you. were the first like first. Like I said you are embedded so much in this story and I was like Anna like do you think that looks positive and you were like I think it is. I'm like Anna Casey: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Annie: There was just this like joy, this relief, this like, did it. Like I got fit, I started eating well. Like I did it. I did it. Like it beat the system. Like I am pregnant. Like, and I was like, this is perfect because I, I really wanted to start coaching at SLAM and where I was at the time they were looking for a coach and I was like, this is perfect. This is my in, I'm going to start my pregnancy fitness like journey. And this is like how I'm going to rebrand my, my existence. Like I am going to be Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. wow, I didn't realize that. Yeah. Annie: pregnant. And I was like, this is great because now I can now I have the nutritional literacy, I have the gym etiquette of my own garage and I have the gym split and I have all these things. And now I'm pregnant and now I can marry the two and post about it and learn more about it and get certified to coach and to like walk through fitness in a safe way. Pregnant and share that journey because now it's Anna Casey: Mm. Annie: these two things that I really it's my motherhood and it's fitness and there are two things I like I want to hold them both and just be like yes like there they are um and I was so ready like I was so excited and I had just like this glow and I called my mom and she was like well like just wait like um and I think it also needs to be said that I found out when Arnaud was in the field Anna Casey: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Annie: I was so excited to tell him, I was like, my gosh, I'm gonna order a shirt and it's gonna be this whole cute thing. And so a couple weeks went by and I was feeling great, everything was going super well. And I Arno was coming home and it was so hard to look back on because I had this false sense of like, Anna Casey: Mm. That's right. Yeah. Annie: invincibility almost. And I don't know what's coming home on like a Wednesday night. I was in the gym listening to my music, drinking my electrolytes because I like was just staying hydrated, doing all the things. deadlifting which I love to do and I used the bathroom and I was spotting and then I was like Annie it's implantation bleeding duh I've heard that term before so I can apply it to my own life Anna Casey: Mm. Mm-hmm. Annie: And I was like, no big deal. Arno's coming home tonight. It's gonna be great. He's gonna be so excited. I had taken three or four different pregnancy tests to show him, present to him as he came home. And so I got Juliette up from her nap and I was like, all right, we're gonna ship out to Aldi and prepare, get everything ready. And yeah, we're going through the Aldi line and I just felt this roll in my body. This like... Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Annie: Like just like this horrifying shift. And I kind of just froze and I'm like paying. And everything is just, I felt just like strange. And I was like, this is not right, this is not right. So I pay, and I was like, I need go to the bathroom right now. So I ripped Juliet out of the thing and I'm in the bathroom and I was like, I am miscarrying in an Aldi. Anna Casey: Mm. Annie: and It was just like this like desperate... Like I think about it now and... the way that my like brain like stepped up it was almost as if like you know when you're like going up like two or three stairs at a time and I was like to figure out like what's going on and I started like moving like really fast like through that and I was like well and I can't slow down because I'm gonna fall back down the staircase but I was like I just need to figure out like what's going on and it's like Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Annie: It was just like a desperate like grab, like I drove to Walgreens and got like $50 worth of pregnancy tests. Cause I was like, well, if I take the pregnancy test and it still says pregnant, then I'm going to still be pregnant. Which is like such a sad like thing to think, you know? And I was just like so desperate to like keep. Anna Casey: Mm. Annie: I was like, what can I do? And that's always been a thing for me. What can I change about this situation to make it? What can I do? Anna Casey: Yeah. Annie: And I got home, And I think over the next few hours, like I was like choking on that reality that like I have lost this pregnancy. And when I got home and... It became very evident without getting too graphic that I was miscarrying. And Arno was coming home in what, three hours? And like, I started panicking. was like, my God, what is he gonna come home to? I desperately wanted him to experience the same joy that I had for weeks before he came home of like, gonna have another baby. Like I wanted that for him and he came home and I faked it. Like Juliet was obviously so happy. She knew nothing. She was so happy to see him you know give him a hug. Juliet goes to bed and then Anna Casey: Mm, mhm. Annie: He's like, hey, what's up? And I was like, I need to talk to you. And I probably could have delivered the news differently to him. And I showed him the pregnancy test, and then he was like, And I was like, but wait. And I was like, well, I'm actively miscarrying. And it's all a little not foggy, but it's. It was so challenging to have so many emotions at once where it's like, I missed my husband so much. I miss him all the time when he's gone. I was so happy to be pregnant and then I was so devastated to not be pregnant. I can't even imagine how it must have felt for him too. He obviously deals with these things much differently than I do, At some point it was decided like, you know, maybe we should go to the doctor and like figure it out. So the next day we like spent forever and this like a side tangent on the, I tried to get an appointment with my OB and they were like, you have to just go to the emergency room. And I did that. So I told the woman behind the desk what was happening. I told the triage nurse what was happening. I told the nurse that came into the room what was happening. And then, you know, three and a half, four hours later when the doctor finally comes in, a man, by the way, and he sits down, he's like, so tell me what's going on. And I told him, I was like, I'm ex-medical weeks pregnant and I'm miscarrying. He he's like, all right, good, good. And. And didn't get in his face, I was like, is it? And I didn't know what to, I couldn't believe that was happening to me. And he eventually left the room and the nurses came back in and they apologized, they're like, we're gonna pull someone else. He's on autopilot. And I said, he just told me that my miscarriage was good, good. Oh, good, good. And I'll never forget it. As long as I forget it. It was disgusting. But yeah, and then it sort of... Anna Casey: my gosh. my gosh. Annie: From there, just like, again, you are part of the story. A couple days later, you delivered sweet, beautiful Mia and... Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Annie: I think I was asking I was like I want to see pictures of Mia and like you me and then I like I was checking on you and you being like the person you are turned around and we're like well like how are you feeling like about your pregnancy and in the same age because I know you've touched on it before on the podcast about your own experience and I knew I only had to say like a couple words to you that I had some hard news and that's exact thing that you told me Anna Casey: Mm. Mm, yeah. Ugh, just got chills. I know. Annie: Yeah and I was like I know like I only need to say like a couple things to Anna and she'll know like she'll know and it was just I also felt like in that moment like that's gonna sound so lame but like our like I was like I feel like I was like reaching out to like grab on to you to like oh we're gonna be moms of two now and then like all of a sudden like I like fell like back down into the abyss and like you just like kept going and I was like, my God, I'm gonna miss her. And I was like, Annie, you're being so dramatic. Like, just like, it's fine. But I was like, was so close to like having it, you know? And then the next few weeks, like, it's really hard because I started like wondering like, well, why? And... Anna Casey: Aw. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Annie: I would tug on that string. was like, move on, move on, move on. Keep going up the stairs. Just keep going. Anna Casey: Mm. Annie: I thought there was a few times where I was like, I asked for too much. Like my life is already so blessed, I asked for too much. And that's like a reoccurring thought that I'll mention probably again. Where it's like, I have it all right now. So what, like, I'm being selfish for wanting more. Anna Casey: Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Annie: And then I think the most challenging thing, and I know the internet lasts forever. So I know that there is a chance that Logan will see this one day maybe, I don't know. But I need that sweet little boy to know that he was one of the most prayed for children. I, it's so funny, because I found, Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Annie: not to make it too spiritual, but I found God in many ways in that year. And it was first this guilt of I asked for too much from God to be like, want another baby. And then was like, then I got punished for asking for it. And there was just this real confusion that I experienced about it. Anna Casey: Mm. Mm. Mm. Annie: But I prayed for that pregnancy and like in those and mind you, it was three weeks apart that I got pregnant with Logan. I did not have a cycle. So when they were trying to figure out my gestational age with Logan, I gave them my discharge date and I was like, this is sickening. And when I found out about my pregnancy with Logan, all the joy was gone. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Annie: It was like there was no pink glasses. There was no glow. There was nothing. was fear. Immediate fear of and like disbelief. was like, well, I'm not going to get attached right now. And whereas before it was like, I was so excited and I lost that And I was like, why am I not happy? What's wrong with me? And then it was almost like from that point on I was like, I gave life to an anxiety that I have never. Anna Casey: Right, right. Mm, mm. Annie: experienced, we're in, we're in that like, every, I think you asked like, what were some of the thoughts and it was like, that there is something genetically wrong with my eggs. If not worst case scenario, it's both of us, best case scenario, it's one of us. But that's why the miscarriage happened. Anna Casey: Hmm. Wow. Mm. Annie: And my mind just took off and I had no control, no control. And for a while I was like faking it big time. was like, like in the gym at like 16 weeks, having a panic attack, being like, I am not putting any weight on the bar. I'm not doing anything. Like I feel sick. Like my brain is not accepting the life that I was living like prior to being pregnant. And like it wasn't... Anna Casey: Mm. Mm. Yeah. Annie: like letting me move forward in pregnancy. Like I didn't believe it. Every ultrasound, was like a nightmare. And the nurses like all came to know me like very well. Cause like I would come in and I would start off making like, well, I'm not like a chill mom. And we know, we know. And, Anna Casey: Mm. Ha ha ha. I know they all loved you though. I know that they just adored you. Annie: It was the first thing I said every single time. like, Amy, it's okay, we know. And at one point in the pregnancy, they discovered that had a velomentous cord insertion, which basically means like the placenta and the umbilical cord are not connected the way they should be. And it can lead to intrauterine growth restriction and low lying placenta. And if you Google it, it says it's a very rare 1 % high risk pregnancy that often results in stillbirth. And so I found this out at around like 20 weeks. Anna Casey: wow. Mm. Annie: So, I was a nightmare. I was a nightmare and I had, yeah. Anna Casey: It's like all alarms are going off in your body. Like your body is like, We are not safe, we are not safe, like this is not safe, like the baby's not safe. Yeah. It's like how can you how can you function and go throughout life when your body is like the whole house is on fire? Like Annie: Exactly, exactly. Nothing is safe. That's exactly what it is and like there was There was nothing that anyone could tell me like it was gonna be okay and that Transitioned into you know, I had really wanted to go for a V back and the development of chord insertion. He was transverse. He was also, and this is what triggered more postpartum, or prepartum at this point, was he was measuring his head was 99th plus percentile, but like the rest of him was either small or average. But and I need every person who's listening to this if they're having to be. Take the ultrasound measurements with a great assault because they are not that is that is not to be all end up. Yes. Yes. Anna Casey: Mm. Yeah. They can be like a pound they can be like a pound off in either direction, right? Yeah. Annie: So I, but like, I'm going to these ultrasounds. I'm leaving, I'm Googling. Why is my baby's head so big? What's going on? Like, what could it be? And the anxiety is sort of just like building, building, But I'm just like, once he gets here, it's gonna be fine. Once he gets here, it's gonna be fine. And that's the biggest joke in the world because I should have just like, like I, I wanna go back and just like wring my neck and be like, itty. Anna Casey: Mm. Annie: That's not how it works. I, and even, even people going into the second C section, like, the second one's like so much, so much better. Like it's so much easier. And it was a thousand times worse. It was so, it was so bad. I was, I was crying and throwing up and shaking and like, was so worried. And like, I, Anna Casey: Mm. Really? Awww. Annie: So there's a really funny story like I was looking up and obviously everyone's like masked in the OR I'm like looking up at this like this nurse and I'm like oh my god She's got like my aunt's eyes like she's so comforting my aunt is like very dear to me I was like, is my aunt Sheila. She's right there. She's comforting me. I was like after he was born I was telling my mom this story because her sister and I was like, yeah mom like I was looking up at her and like I got sick and she was stroking my hair and Arno goes I was the one stroking your hair Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Annie: Arnaud was like sitting I was like You know cuz I was looking up at this one like at her because she was holding this like stick-up bag and Arnaud was just like on the other side like poor man just like trying to pet me and make me feel better Got no credit but Yeah, so and but for a few for a few weeks. I was like after he was born. I was like this is is good Anna Casey: Yeah. Aww that's awesome. Annie: It is fine. I did have like a little worry I was like is the pediatrician would come in and I was like They got us out of the hospital in 24 hours, which was shocking I was like we just cut open but okay. Yeah, let's go home, but the pediatrician's like yeah, he looks normal. He looks perfect He looks fine. His apgar was like 10 out of 10 like he's fine, and I was like oh I was like Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Annie: all that worry for nothing. But then I got home and I started little by little being like, no, his head's too big. No, there's something, my body, Anna was telling me that I needed to prepare for something bad. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Annie: something was gonna happen. Like, they missed something. like, we, Anna, we went to the pediatrician and we ended up, he had like a, what I thought was a breathing problem. And the pediatrician couldn't diagnose it, so they sent us to the emergency room. The emergency room freaked me out. Yeah. Anna Casey: Mm. Mm. Wait, is this when you texted me about you sent me a video of him breathing? And I was like, not to scare you, but I think it's an emergency or something like that. I'm so sorry if I was wrong, by the way. Yes. Annie: I was like... Yeah, like the retracted breaths. So we got to the emergency room and they watched him breathe for a while and they were like, he's just a little congested and they should have never, they were like, they should have never sent you here because they could see how it was impacting me. They were like, please don't go back to that pediatrician. And they actually hooked us up with a new pediatrician, Dr. B, who I miss so much. He actually used to run, I know. Anna Casey: okay. I'm so sorry. Mm. wow. That's great of them to do that f like to hook you up with someone else. Wow. Annie: I, it was, so in North Carolina at Fort Bragg they have like a pediatrics only emergency room, which is unbelievable. So, and the pediatrician we ended up seeing after that was like the. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Annie: resident for like 10 years there so like he was it was amazing and he saw right through me he saw right through me he was like you're gonna this you're gonna be not in like a problematic way but he was like you know I would call the office all the time I'd be like I remember you know I would be up in my room and Arnaud would be like don't be using your phone Anna Casey: wow. Annie: to call the office and I would call the office and he'd be like, think Logan has a very rare genetic disease. Pretty much like every few days. be like, I want him to come in and get tested for like a very rare genetic disease. And they were like, we're not doing that. We're not doing that. And I would come up with, I was sobbing, Anna, like pushing the stroller down the street at like a month postpartum. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Annie: And I was so thoroughly convinced that I had asked for too much from God and I was now being punished, that my life was perfect the way that it was. Anna Casey: Annie, I'm so sorry. Annie: that there was something wrong with Logan. he, you know, it went from, and I need other moms to like hear this and be Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Annie: like, it is normal to, maybe not normal, but common, maybe is a better word. I don't know what the word is, but I was like, he has cerebral palsy. Anna Casey: Mm. Annie: He has forehead bossing. He has autism. I drank too much Diet Coke when I was pregnant and he has autism. got, literally, Anna, there was a targeted ad on my Facebook and it said, drinking too much Diet Coke while pregnant linked to autism. And I had a full on rocking back and forth on the couch meltdown. Anna Casey: Wow. Annie: And Arno's just sitting there holding me. And I was like, I gave him autism. Like I drank too much diet. He's like, and Arno. I swear the biggest life hack for like postpartum is choosing the right partner because that man that man sat beside me and I would be rocking the baby and he was rocking me and he was he would just hold me and like he's like you he would mantra me almost he would be like you're safe you have two healthy beautiful children I love you I'm not going anywhere like everything's okay and just like steady me and I Anna Casey: Yeah. Amen. Wow. Annie: was he was what I know one of the things you asked me was like what moved the needle for you it was not to like give him all the credit but he had played a huge part in like watching me completely fall apart completely fall apart from stem to stern I was undone like you know I couldn't Anna Casey: Wow. Yeah. Mm. Annie: Obviously the lack of sleep and this and that and the other thing with newborns. But I could I could not get through a single day without having an actual meltdown. And it's so funny because. I remember posting this picture around Christmas time. We like went to the Botanical Gardens to see the lights. I my caption caption was something like. Anna Casey: Wow. Mm-hmm. Annie: What more could I ask for or something? And I posted it and I was like I'm a fraud because I came home and I cried and I cried and I cried and that was one of the worst days of my life that exact day and it's on my grid it's on my Instagram you can still go see it that was one of the worst days of my entire life and I just sat there smiling posting my family at Christmas time and Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Wow. Mm-hmm. Annie: I think it was that, it was like the week before Christmas I like messaged my OB and I was like, I need help. I'm not doing well. Like I, I need help like badly because I can't turn my brain off. I'm at the playground with Juliet and Logan and Arno's at the gym or something. He had so much paternity leave. It was great. And I'm like soliciting random moms, opening the baby holder, being like, do you think my baby's head looks big? Like, Anna. like strangers on the street and I'm like, I look back and I'm like, that is a crazy person. That's a crazy person doing those things. yeah, it was the most frayed I have ever been. I didn't have a single nerve to go off of. It was the lack of sleep, the absolute nonstop fear that started. Anna Casey: Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Annie: pretty much like at the at my miscarriage like and then forward it just just bald and bald and bald it was just like a snowball and I never dealt with it and it just it just backfired like so badly so yeah and then I again I don't want to bring like too much of it into it but Anna Casey: Wow. Wow. Annie: I always remind myself that that year I found God in a couple ways and none of them were at church. None of them were on a Sunday. None of them were the way that you think. I literally was like white knuckle praying at three in the morning with this baby and my prayers were so messy. It literally just looked like me saying like, God, help me, help me, help me, help me, like over and over and over again. I can't even think about it now because it's just like, Anna Casey: Yep. Yep. No Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Annie: It's just this like desperately like like just help me like figure out like why am I feeling this way like I? Have like I said before like I look motherhood was for me like this was something that like was my god's God-given gift like I meant to be a mom like why is it here? Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm. Annie: And I won't accept this beautiful child. I'm convinced there's something wrong. And why can't I get over that? It was a horrifying time in my life. Anna Casey: It's beautiful that I think when we were talking one time you said I didn't find God in church. I found God crying on the bathroom floor. And I will never get over that. Like that's it's beautiful. 'Cause it's real, you know what mean? What was the other way that you said? You said a couple ways. Was it your was it the the group of women that invited you in? Annie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is Yeah, yeah, so I, and I was like, God moved, yes, God moved through them. And I like, I so believe that like deeply. And I hope it's okay if I like name drop them. But yeah, my. Anna Casey: The village. Ha ha ha Yes, please give a shout out. Annie: Yeah, my dear friend Josie, who I actually met in Clarksville and she randomly moved into my, like we didn't chit chat very much, then I noticed that she moved into my neighborhood in North Carolina. I had reached out to her after giving birth when it was bad and I was like, hey, like I'm like not doing so well. And she was like, instead of, was like, why don't you come to Bible study? And I was like, what? I was like, no, I'm like, I don't, Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Annie: Like I'm not doing well. She's like, just come, just come. Like so calmly, she's so calm, she's so gentle, she's so beautiful. She's like, just come. And she like, she showed me the way. And my friend Becca, it was at her house. And her home, like I walked in and I felt, it was so funny, I was like giving myself like a pep talk. I was like, don't. Anna Casey: Mm. Mm-hmm. Annie: Don't immediately trauma dump on all of these moms, okay? You're new here. This is like their established thing. Like please, any, like just be cool, be cool, be cool. Like, had the new baby, just come as an observer. Be a fly on the wall. Be quiet. Just learn, like feel God. Like just listen to the prayers or the Psalms or whatever it is they read. I'm very new to the Bible, so like forgive me. Like just be in the Bible study. Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm. Yes. Yeah. Annie: and I like walk in and like within five minutes I'm just sitting there like screaming balling like and Becca's house is so beautiful and she's so sweet and kind and my friend Sydney was right there or like I We had these prayer papers that we had out for the new year and it was like, what are your prayers for the year? And I still have it all she did was write her phone number down and she was like, she made me feel so. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Mm. Annie: real. She was like, I'm still in it. I swear that group of women like saved me. To this day, I don't know what I would have done if I didn't just go there and cry. It's just crazy to think about. And that, Sydney said it the other day, she was like, you don't have to say, but I'm grateful about motherhood. It can still be hard. Anna Casey: Yeah. that's so good. That's so beautiful. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Annie: And it doesn't need to be said, but I'm still grateful. Anna Casey: You don't have to like sugarcoat or soften the way that you feel in a moment to make it easier to digest for other people. You can just have that feeling. Like, you know? Annie: beautiful. Anna, like, yes, yes. now that I've like, I don't want to say come full circle but. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Annie: did, like full disclosure, go an SSRI to deal with the anxiety and it felt very much more like anxiety than depression. It was a very like running feeling. And I was so, I had such a shame about it. I felt like true shame. And Arno said one day, he's like, well, Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm. Annie: I wouldn't shame you for getting a cast if your arm was broken. And yeah, I know. And I was like, I love that man. I feel like our love and our marriage and our family. Anna Casey: Snaps. I'm snapping. It's so good, Arno. Annie: came together in those few moments and those months of him and he took all three months of paternity leave at once which was great. It was very rare. It doesn't really happen because his jaw had been shutting down and he just held me through that and hearing it made me feel better. was like, it's just a cast. It's a cast. It's just a cast for my brain. That's all it is. I'm just coming back down. Anna Casey: great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That's good. Absolutely. Annie: And I ended up seeing a therapist specific for postpartum. And she worked with me until we moved. And then I tapered off of the SSRI and I was like, I'm okay. I was like, And then I picked Logan up and I'm like, I love this baby. Look at his big little head. And I'm just like, Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Annie: here. Like this now it feels right. But there were so many days in the beginning where we were taking him to the chiropractor where Arno was like, we're not going back. He does not he was like, we're not going back here because you're not going to be sitting in the chiropractor sobbing about my son's big head and the chiropractor suggesting that you come back three times a week and you can barely you know, we're not doing that. Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Annie: He's fine, like Arno, Anna Casey: Yeah. Annie: he is fine, he's beautiful, he's a happy little baby, he's perfect. But my brain was so, well there was something wrong at one point, so, are you sure? Like are you sure? And like nobody, nobody could tell me that everything was gonna be fine. No one. Anna Casey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes it makes a lot of sense. Like 'cause you you read those like when you were Googling about what what was the condition that he had when he was in the womb? What was it called again? The Annie: the filamentous chord insertion. Anna Casey: Yeah. And so when you look at that and you're like, there's like a one percent chance that this could happen to anybody, and yet it happened to me. So like clearly, like everything is out the window and anything can happen. So I think your brain just like latches on. I mean, I don't know, but it just seems like your brain just latches on to those thoughts as a way of like to protect yourself or whatever. But I want to know. Annie: Yes. and Mm-hmm. Anna Casey: Now looking back, because I know maternal mental health is so important to you now, now more than ever. And we just celebrated maternal mental health month in May, right? It was May. Annie: you. Yes, yes. Anna Casey: And so, Do you feel like you have any advice for soon to be mamas or postpartum mamas who feel like they are just in that place that you were in? like in the absolute thick of it. Like I know that you said there was nothing that nobody could say to you to like make you feel better. But do you feel like you would go back and tell yourself anything? Annie: Yeah, and I took this question very seriously because as much as nobody could tell me, it did still feel good to have people Anna Casey: Yeah. Annie: telling me that he's okay. I'm not believing it yet, but like the thought coming in that it's gonna be okay was helpful despite the thoughts going out being like, it's not okay, there's an emergency, there's something that needs to be done, I need to understand, I need to diagnose, I need to test. It was still... Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Annie: important to listen to the people telling me that it was okay and not just be like, well, they don't know. And sort of like if the pediatrician who studies babies is telling you that your baby is okay, sometimes it's okay to listen to them and. Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Annie: So many people talk about the mom gut and I like fully rejected my mom gut because my mom gut was telling me, my mom gut was like, there is something wrong and you need to figure it out immediately. My mom gut turned on me so badly. That being said, I also have an unreliable gut as it is with my celiac disease. So like it tracks that like, my gut doesn't work either way, okay? Anna Casey: Mm. Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's so good. Mm-hmm. It's funny that you mentioned that though, because like I have never I've never felt that way about my gut. Like people are like, trust your gut, trust your gut. I think Nate is really good about that. Like he has very good like intuition about some things. I feel that way only about certain things. Like if I meet somebody and I have a gut feeling about them, usually I'm right. But other than that Annie: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Anna Casey: I don't I'm like, I don't know what my gut is telling me. So it's it's never helpful for me to hear that either. Annie: Accurate. No, honestly, it was not helpful. was like, ah, the mom gut doesn't, I don't have the mom gut. I mean, I have the mom gut, you know, but like I don't have the metaphorical mom gut as it were. But some advice is like to not wait to ask for help because Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm, it's so good. Annie: At least in my case, I feel lucky to have been versed in mental health, to be like, I need to ask for help here. And the longer, yeah, it was pretty quick. Anna Casey: Yeah. That was one of my takeaways from your story is you reached out to your OB. Like it makes me 'cause don't they always do the assessments with the mother maternal mental health? So did they just not p th was that just not enough of a red flag for them? Annie: Mmm. Yeah. So I had been telling my, because I was doing it with the pediatrician, the OB and your primary care all give... Anna Casey: Yeah. Annie: that test, not Edison, the Edinburgh test or the Edinburgh scale. And my numbers were so bad, they were so bad. And at my six week appointment, I was like, yeah, I'm not good. We don't even need to go through this. And she was like, let's get it started right now. And it did take a while for... Anna Casey: Yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah. What started? Annie: the medicine to start and to help. I think also that I would want moms to know that treatment is effective. Anna Casey: Okay. Annie: And it is safe and there is no shame behind it. like carry Arno's words that like the cast and the broken arm, okay? Carry that because like it's, that's exactly what it is. There's no, like it doesn't, it doesn't make you like a failure as a mom. Like I, I wake up every single day and like smile at that baby, he smiles at me and I love him. Like I love both, like I love both of them and like I still, I have found my way back to being like, Anna Casey: Mm. Mm-hmm. Annie: Yes, this was in fact my calling. Like, who got scared there for a minute that like maybe I, you know, didn't do the, made the, I didn't make the right call, but I did. And also, except help. Like if I had been closed off and had stayed isolated, I don't think I would have had the same like outcome. So don't wait to ask for help. Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm. Mm. Annie: Don't carry shame about it. Know that there is treatment, it is effective, and it doesn't last forever. It doesn't last forever. This does not last forever. I say it like over and over. Like it's not gonna be forever. Like when you're in the pit, it is not forever. Like you will claw your way out and you will be okay. and sometimes it looks like a big fight. Like sometimes you do claw your way out and sometimes it looks like... Anna Casey: So good. Mm. Annie: just being in that moment and like time will pick it up and time will move you forward and it feels like it's never gonna get there but it does like it does I remember being like I hate to wish this time away it's not about wishing it away it's about knowing that you're like in a in a bad spot and you want that to be to be gone it's not about like I don't want to be with my my new my eight-week-old that's not it you don't want to be with yourself at that moment Anna Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Annie: that's okay you will come back to yourself Anna Casey: beautiful, Annie. That's so good. Annie: funnily enough thank you the last thing and it trickles into my life like here and there is that it's so hard because of our generation, like social media will destroy you and Google will destroy you. Anna Casey: Mm, yes. Yeah. Annie: I didn't touch on it at all, but there was a point where I was so bad that Arno had to take my phone like a petulant child and hide it on a cabinet that I couldn't reach. I was, know, post C-section. I can't be climbing on the cabinets to go get my phone. And it, yeah, exactly. And I was like, I hated him in the moment, but like he knew, like I was... Anna Casey: Mm. Mm-hmm. It's a it's a good man right there. It's awesome. Yeah. Annie: Social media, it tore me apart. It would show me the Diet Coke ad, It would show me these rare genetic diseases. Anna Casey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Annie: and so just to as a new mom I think I wish I would have taken like a social media break Anna Casey: It's really good, Annie. that's all great advice. I have one more question for you as we wrap this up. Annie: Yes. Anna Casey: We're we're time traveling and you're fift and you're fifty you're fifty five years old, fifty-five year old Annie Vaginay. and Juliet and Logan are out of the house and you're no longer a stay at home mom. You're like an empty nester. What what advice do you think your fifty five year old self would give you right now? Annie: my gosh. I am like painfully aware that I am like in the good old days right now. Painfully, painfully aware. Anna Casey: good. Yeah. I know. Same. Annie: my mind creates little poems throughout the day about them and I'm just like I could make myself cry if I wrote this down. but I think It's it's so trite I feel like it's it's an answer that like every mom would say is just like Soak it all in and just like mean every night when I put Logan down and Arno puts Juliet down. When I go to like the staircase to come downstairs, she is not asleep yet and she'll poke out and be like, will you rock me? And Arno's down, you're down on the couch. She's been asleep for like 10 minutes as I'm nursing him to sleep. Anna Casey: Aww. Annie: And think my 55 year old self would be like, know, just don't stop doing it. Don't stop doing it until she doesn't ask. be okay with a boring day what more could you want what could you want it like be Anna Casey: So good. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Annie: let it be boring. let it be boring. Anna Casey: Yep. Annie: like we tear ourselves open to become mothers and it's like okay then yes yes literally like yes like yeah like it's yeah it's just yeah and just yeah Anna Casey: Hmm. Literally. Tore both times. So good. Annie: Don't shy away from the hardship of motherhood just because it was hard for a season. I would go through it all again a thousand and one times every single time. I look at that little baby's face, I'm like, I would do it again. Like, I would go through every single pit of like those few days, like weeks, days. I would do it forever. Anna Casey: No. Mm-hmm. It's amazing. Well, I know that I know that she's gonna be so proud of you for everything that you have overcome and and been through. And I can't wait to get to know 55 year old Annie. I hope she's still in the Games Garage. She's gonna be the fittest grandma in the world. Annie: Yeah. still Marco poloing. Yes, I hope we're still. Anna Casey: You're probably gonna retire in New England, let's be honest. You're gonna have a beautiful garden. You're gonna have a salt box house. Annie: that. Oh my gosh. Yes, you remember. Of course you do. Of course you do. I'm at a softbox house. Yes, I do. Anna Casey: I love what your friend said about this would all be worth it if it was for one person. I know that this is going to help so many women that listen to it. and even if it just helps one, this was worth it. And I love that this is a conversation that we'll get to keep forever, right? Annie: that's it is. Yes! That's what I'm doing it for. I Anna Casey: I love you, friend.