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The Ashy Bines Sea-Moss Saga · Outspoken the Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Sophie Torver and coming up on today's show, Ashy Bynes calls.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Out a brand for ripping her off.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Jessica Wilson is forced to deny she purchased designs off
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Alibaba and Sammy Guggenheimer admits she stalks other influencers. But first,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: we must have had an influx of new listeners, Kate,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: which is nice because we've had quite a few DMs
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: where people have said, Look, I'm confused. I didn't realize
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: that you guys were triplets. Why are there endless pregnancies?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Can you give us a bit of an explainer as
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: to what's going on? Perhaps we need to reinstate our
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: old intro because in it, we clearly state that we're
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: identical triplets, but we don't have identical opinions. So sometimes
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: things can get heated. God, that's a blast from the past.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: We got rid of it because it was a bit cringe,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: but maybe we need to have like a new fast
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: paced intro. But the reason why it seems like there's
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: endless pregnancies going on is because Amy and I, so
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: our other co-host Amy, who hasn't been on the show
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks now, she gave birth six
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: weeks ago and Amy and my pregnancies are nine weeks apart.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: And you are Sophie.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: And I am Sophie and this is Kate on the co-host.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: So I have a son called Jack who is nearly
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: a year old and It's pretty confusing because we all
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: studied journalism together. We're all 36 years old. We all
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: got married within a year of each other. So you're
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: probably lucky you weren't around to hear about the endless
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: wedding talk and endless hen's party talk that we had
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: But I mean, to put a bit of differences out there,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I used to work in news at Channel 7 and
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: then I went into PR. Amy and I have our
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: own PR business. Kate, you've worked in sports. public relations.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah so I also studied journalism but I moved more
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: into the marketing and PR space so I worked at
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: the Adelaide 36s and the Adelaide Thunderbirds and a few
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: different marketing companies and then six years ago we decided
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to do a podcast together. Yeah it was because we'd
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: actually all moved away from each other for the first
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: time because we were all living in a share house
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: together and then you know became adults and had to
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: move out with our partners and such and we thought
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: well This is a good opportunity for us to have
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: a joint project together. It was a bit of a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: passion project, but it has become your full-time job now, Kate. Yeah,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: it's still so weird when people ask me, what do
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: you do? Because I get really awkward, particularly around older
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: people that don't really get podcasts. I've been filling out
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: so many forms at the hospital lately. And it's like,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: what is your job title? But I always just say
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: publicist because of my PR firm. I feel like it's
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: easier to explain that. But if there's any other questions
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: new listeners have, slide into our DMs. Maybe we have
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: to do a bit more of a get to know
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: us episode.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I don't hate anyone.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: You do.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: You do.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I don't. It turns out Sammy Guggenheimer is just like us.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: In a Q & A, she admitted she stalks influencers
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: she doesn't like. Well, it's a little bit more than that.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Her roommate Lily threw her under the bus and said
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: that she hates some influencers. Maybe she's a listener of
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: this podcast then. So it all started when a follower
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: asked Sammy who her favorite influencer was. Let's throw to
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: what she said. I don't really watch a lot of
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: influencers stuff, but my favorite influencers are probably Sophia and Chincia.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Who else do I really like? Alex Earl.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Who else do I like?
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Say.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Well, you don't like it.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Don't say that. Who's your favorite influencers?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I don't hate anyone. You do.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: You do. I don't. There's a lot of people I
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: stalk because I know stuff about them.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Don't stalk.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I'm a baking aunt. I love it that the roommate
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: was dishing all of the dirt. Oh, she was really
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: sticking the knife in there. And you could tell Sammy
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: was like, shut up. I mean, there are some obvious
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: ones that we know she has beef with, like Sofa Dofa.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And as we discussed last week, there's speculation that her
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: and Izzy Armitage are no longer friends, but they did
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: put their podcast out together again, so they've squashed that.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: There's also rumours she doesn't like Kerry Gribble. I was
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: thinking outside of the square, though. Remember last year at
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Australian Fashion Week, Sammy was spotted with Olivia Rogers' ex,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Morgan Waterhouse? Yeah, that was quite weird because Sammy and Olivia–
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: They look quite similar. Yeah, they're both beautiful girls. Which
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: is quite ironic because Olivia seems to date guys that
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: look like her ex-husband, Justin McKean. I mean, both Morgan
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and Olivia seem to have a tie. I wonder if
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: she stalks Olivia Rogers because she knows stuff about her.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like there's probably.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: A few people on her stalking list. I mean, we
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: all have a stalking rotation, don't we? And the funniest
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: thing about stalking rotations when you're stalking normal people is
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: that the normal people become celebrities to you. Oh, and
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: then when they put their account on private, I feel
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: so robbed. I'm like, hang on, what am I going
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: to do? What are they up to? I just think
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: that private accounts should not be allowed because, I mean,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: the thing is we have a finster.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I have had a finster ever since I.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Got into journalism because in class we were all told
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: in order to get information, you need to have fake
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Instagram accounts. Yeah, do we think that Sammy's got a
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: burner account? Oh, she'd totally have a finster. I wonder
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: how much effort she's put into the finster though. Because
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: she is stalking influencers, the likelihood of them actually seeing
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: the finster and saying, who the fuck is this weirdo
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: that keeps looking at my stuff is very low. It's
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: more when you are having a stalk of everyday people
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: that you can't really get away with having a bit
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: of a question mark pop up. See, I think you
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: can always get away with having a finster with everyone
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: because it could be anyone. Yeah, but some people don't
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: get many views on their stories and it's so obvious
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: when there's just some random person. fucking picture that like
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a sunset that keeps popping up. Hey, that is the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: profile picture of our Finster. So don't give it away.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: I have to go and change it.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I actually haven't had access to our Finster for quite
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: some time, but yeah, it's so funny. The name of it,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I won't say what it is because people will find it,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: but it's actually a name that we used to use
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: when I worked at the Thunderbirds. Cause we had a
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Finster to try and direct positive commentary and And we
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: found out later that it's actually the name of one
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: of our Nana's best friends, which I didn't know about.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: We used to like back, back, back in the day,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: we used to have a Facebook finster and that was
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: quite a sophisticated one because in order to have a
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Facebook finster, you had to have quite a number of photos.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I still feel bad about that because essentially what we
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: did was we found someone in a different country's Facebook
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: page and just copied all of their photos across, which
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: is terrible when you think about it. One of my
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: friends recently, he's had a fake Hinge account made of him.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And it was funny because at this dinner we were
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: talking about who in their right mind would ever do
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: that and steal someone's photos. And I was sitting there thinking, oh, God,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I did that like 15 years ago. I know.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: It's terrible.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like it wasn't the same then. I mean, also,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: like I wasn't tricking anyone into dating this person. It
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: was just to look at other people's pages. I think
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: if you're catfishing people, that's where you do it. Anyway,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: back to Sammy Kuchenheimer. It feels like this is confessions.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Everyone's getting to know our deepest, darkest secrets this episode. Yeah. Well,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: in terms of Sammy, on her public profile, she actually
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: follows a lot of OG Australian influencers. So she's got
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Sarah's Day, Shani Grimmon, Tammy Hembrough, Jade Twinshew, Skye Wheatley,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Steph Clare Smith, and a bunch of others. So who knows?
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: She may just be looking at these people's accounts on
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: her own and hate following them.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Someone had warned me, so I didn't waste my time,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: my airtime. I didn't get my audience involved because it
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: has been an absolute nightmare.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Ashi Bynes has issued a warning to her fellow influencers.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Don't work with a certain CMOS brand. The OG fitness
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: influencer put the brand on blast after they didn't pay
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: her for the content she created for them. While Ashi
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: refrained from naming the company in her TikTok, it didn't
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: take her audience long cake to guess who it was. Yeah,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: one brand's name kept popping up time and time again,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: and that was Moss X Daily. So in the video,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: she said that she wasn't going to name the company
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: in order to protect herself. Yet she allowed people to
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: go ham in the comments. It also was fairly obvious
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: who she was talking about because she's previously created content
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: for them, which people could easily find. Well, she said
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: people are going to work it out. I mean, the
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: weird thing is she still has the content up. Yeah,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: but it's defamatory if people can identify who it is. Yeah, well,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: there's the truth defense. So the controversial company is owned
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: by former maths contestant Brett Vitilio. But we will dive
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: into that a little bit later. For now, Sophie, what
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: do you know about sea moss? I see all these
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: influencers starting their morning routines by essentially taking a spoonful
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: of something that looks completely inedible and a weird texture
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: and then basically pulling a face and saying how gross
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: it tastes, but they feel so much better for doing so. Yeah,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: there's been a lot of influencers spruiking it recently. It
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: seems to be the new superfood that we're putting into
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: our smoothies. I mean, it looks disgusting. Really? I have
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: just seen people taking spoonfuls and eating it by the
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: jar like that. Well, in the video, Ashley Bynes shared
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: she put it into a smoothie during her promotional video
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: for this brand. I mean, it just seems to have
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: popped up out of nowhere. To me, as you said,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: it doesn't look very nice, but it's supposed to be
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: very nutritionally rich. In saying that, at this stage, there's
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: actually not a lot of scientific evidence that supports the
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: health benefits that are being spruced.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: No way. No way.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can see how the partnership aligns with
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Ashley Byrne. She's all about health and fitness. It's very
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: on brand for her.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: It was actually back in July last year, though, that
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: she worked with the brand. So she created an Instagram
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: reel promoting the CMOS. And she claims that she went
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: above and beyond. She chucked in a couple of stories
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: and TikTok shout outs for free.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Very generous.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: And the brand was meant to pay her for her
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: work in August 2024. However, she says that she is
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: still waiting to be paid.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: It's pretty bad if this is true.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Whilst this brand was messing Ashley around, she said she
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: started to get complaints from her followers who said that
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: they hadn't received their orders. So she said she followed
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: it up with the brand and they claimed that they
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: were struggling to keep up with the influx of orders
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: that came from her promotion. Well, I've actually added this
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: in like, hey, future brands who want to work with me,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I actually sell a lot of stuff. To be fair,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: she said she got over a hundred complaints about people
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: that had purchased the product and not received it and
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: she said she started to become tired of being the
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: middle person it's bad for her brand that she's spruiking
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: something which hasn't arrived no it's terrible here's more of
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: what she.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: Said trying to keep everyone happy and figure out what
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: was going on I didn't want you guys to feel
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: frustrated but I felt like part responsible because I had
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: promoted the brand and sent you guys to buy this
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: product because I recommended it and I trusted it and yeah, frustrating.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: It's unclear what Ashley based this trust on because what
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: became apparent is she did no research into this brand
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and she really didn't help the situation by saying normally
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: she doesn't have to research the brand or the owner.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I think this is a pretty good lesson for her.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's an OG influencer. She's been doing a
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: lot of brand deals for years now. I'm surprised that
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: this is the first time this has happened to her. Well,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: she just made it sound like she just takes any
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: deals for money, really. I mean, it was only when
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: the brand didn't pay her that she began to do
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: her research. And that's when she discovered a bunch of
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: negative reviews on TikTok and Google. Well, if she had
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: done her due diligence earlier, she would have quickly discovered
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: that this brand was not one that she would want
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: to align herself with. Because Kate, as you touched on
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: at the start of the segment, this CMOS brand is
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: owned by a former maths contestant called Brett. Now, He
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: appeared on the show in 2022 and he was married
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: to Tamara and the couple didn't last long. He was
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: later linked to fellow contestant Ella Ding and he now
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: dates Australian model and actor Taylor Davies. It was a
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: real blast from the past because I watched this series
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and it's clear that Tamara is not happy with him
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: because she was jumping in on Ashley Bynes' comment saying
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: what a bad guy he is. We'll go into that
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: a little bit later. Yeah, well, he started this CMOS
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: business after maths and The company states that they're not
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: just a CMOS company. They're a passionate movement aimed at
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: revolutionizing the CMOS industry in Australia and beyond. That term
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: movement should have been a big enough red flag. Despite
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the bold claims, Brett has constantly been forced to address
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: complaints that customers aren't receiving their orders correctly. He often
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: jumps on his Instagram stories and tells his 400 plus
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: thousand followers that they're coming. Just you need to wait
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: for them.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Just be patient, everyone. I'm taking your money.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Your orders are a few months late, but they're on
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: their way. Now, despite his attempts to keep his customers happy.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: In March, New South Wales Fair Trading issued a public
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: warning about the brand after receiving 45 complaints about the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: products since January 2024. So the concerns included spoiled products,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: missing orders, substantial delays and unfilled charity donations. Now the
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: brand's also been accused of going off the grid when
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: consumers raise concerns. In terms of the charity claim, MossX
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Daily claims to donate a portion of each sale to
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: a charity called $ 1 One Dream. But when you dig
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: a bit deeper, the charity is actually operated by Brett himself. Yeah,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: so he claims that the charity gives back to the
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: community that helps him harvest the sea moss in Timor-Leste.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: According to New South Wales Fair Trading, to date, it
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: has not been substantiated that the funds have been transferred
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: from the business itself. to the charity. The Daily Telegraph
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: also did some digging and they discovered the charity also
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: isn't registered with the Australian Charities and Not-for-Profits Commission. I
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: just can't get my head around the fact that he
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: owns the charity that his brand is supposedly donating money to. Now,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: when the publication questioned Brett about the status of the
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: charity in March, He claimed his charity isn't required to
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: be registered because it's not an Australian charity or brand.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And that's because he's saying that the charity operates overseas.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: So essentially, he doesn't have to abide by Australian laws.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: And he went on to say that his charity has
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: supported hundreds of third world harvesting families. Now, New South
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Wales Fair Trading has urged anyone who has dealt with
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Moss X Daily and is not satisfied to lodge a
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: complaint with them. It has had a flow on effect
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: for the brand, thankfully, because you currently cannot buy from
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Moss X Daily. So When you visit their website, you're
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: greeted with a message that says, we're sorry we're currently
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: sold out and not taking on any new orders until
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: the 30th of May, 2025. So this Friday, until we
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: catch up on our backlog, sign up below to be
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the first to know on our drop date. I mean,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think they're going to have too many issues
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: with that. Now back to Ashi. She claims she went
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: public with the news about MossXDaily to warn other content
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: creators not to fall victim like she did. Are we
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: buying it? Because it seems like she had no other
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: option considering so many of her followers had issues with
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the brand. Even though Ashi was fairly naive entering into
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: this partnership, she and her team are sophisticated enough to
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: know that they need to distance themselves publicly from this brand.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: So there's no confusion over what her role was. Yes,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: she did a paid partnership post with them and did
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: a couple of extra freebies. She and her team want
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: people to know that she isn't affiliated with this brand
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: in any way. I think she realized if she stayed quiet,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: the story would negatively flip onto her. However, by coming
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: out and saying that she's also a victim of this brand,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: she's removed any blame or responsibility her followers could have
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: thrown at her. I think the timing is pretty interesting
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: because it's also nearly been a year since she worked
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: with the brand. So Maybe she's just been waiting to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: see if she got paid, but realizes now that there's
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: no chance, particularly after New South Wales Trading put that
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: warning out. I'd love to know how.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Much they owed her.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I know a couple of weeks ago, we spoke about
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: an episode, as she did, where she revealed some secrets
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: and what her pricing used to be. And she said
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: that she used to get paid between $ 15, 000 to $ 10, 000
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: for a post. Do you reckon she's chasing that sort
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: of money up or more? Yeah, I reckon you'd be
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: right with that figure. I mean, this is very damaging
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: for Ashley Bynes' influencing career because she's admitted that she
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: took on a brand deal about a brand that she
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: knew nothing about. She's broken down the fourth wall now
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and spoken to her followers about this failed brand deal.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: And in turn, she's just damaged that trust that she
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: had between her and her audience. Yeah, but do you
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: think that she's trying to save face? Maybe she did
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: know about this brand, but she just wanted to take
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: the money and take the risk with it. No, I
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: think she genuinely didn't know about the brand. I think
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: she just didn't do any research because- She probably thought, oh,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: it's a health-related brand, CMOS. It kind of fits in
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: with what I'm all about.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Do you think influencers have a responsibility to actually research
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: what they're spruiking?
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I definitely think so.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is a multi-million, billion-dollar industry at the
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: end of the day. Most successful influencers have their own
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: brand managers who essentially set up these deals for them.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: It's the brand manager's job to look into the deal
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: and the brand behind it. Well, I think there's an
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: onus on the influencer though to approve it because a
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: lot of influencers go on about how, oh, I only
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: work with brands that I love and they preach all
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: about that. But in terms of Ashley Bynes, it's clear
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: that she's just happy to take on any brand deal.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And that's why I'm surprised that she's actually come out
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and said it. Yeah, but I also think the responsibility
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: lies with the brand manager as well, because they're taking
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: cut of the deal as well. And it wouldn't be
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: hard for them to Google or do a quick TikTok
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: search to make sure that the brand is actually fulfilling
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: its orders and that there's no complaints about the brand. Yeah,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that they couldn't even Google it.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: there was actually a really hilarious exchange between Ashley and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: one of her followers on TikTok that cracked me up.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: So someone wrote, is there any way you can get
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: lawyers involved because it was a contract? This is why
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I don't just purchase off just because influencers say it's good.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: We need to do research. No offense to you personally,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I mean anyone. That person gets paid to say they
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: like the product. And Ashley replied, I love influencers recommendations
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: as it's so personal. I don't follow anyone I don't trust.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: And then the person replied, But you've just admitted that
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: you didn't do any research. I think it's difficult to
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: trust when this stuff happens a lot. And then Ashley replied,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I researched via their website, but never in my 10
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: years did I feel the need to do a deep
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: dive into the ownership or Google reviewed. My lesson to learn,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: but the products I did love and website looked amazing. Sorry,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: but what research did you do then? You just looked
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: at the website and saw a bit of a flashy
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: photo of some CMOS and thought, oh, yeah. As I
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: referenced a little bit earlier in this segment, so if
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: it seems like Brett has left a lasting impression on Tamara,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: his maths ex-wife, so she also chimed in in Ashley's
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: comment section saying, imagine a reality TV show matching you
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: with this guy and making you the villain for seeing
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: him for the fraud he is. And Ashley Barnes replied,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know he was on there. That's insane.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: So she clearly did not know much about this brand
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: or who owns it. Look, I think whenever we hear
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: an influencer say, I've done my own research, we've got
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: to take that with a grain of salt. I need
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: to prep for the launch night. We've got the Bloom launch.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: The new albums are going up.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I need to organize the email that's going to go
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: out at 7 to just let people know it's live.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Jessica Wilson has been forced to deny she purchased designs
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: of Alibaba in the lead up to her latest product launch.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: The mummy blogger turned small business owner was set to
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: release her new line of photo albums when a super
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: sleuth discovered Alibaba was selling the exact same design for
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: a fraction of the cost. So before we get into it,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: who is Jessica Wilson? Well, Jessica has really grown a
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: following by sharing about motherhood and lifestyle content on Instagram.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: So she is a mum to three. Her kids are Levi,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Bowie and Goldie, and they feature heavily in her content. Now,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: before influencing, she actually worked as an early childhood educator
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: and And it was the birth of her first child
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: that inspired her to then go on and learn more
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: about photography. And that's where she started sharing more about
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: her life as a mum online. I'm trying to avoid
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: using the word mummy blogger here because I feel like
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: that is a dirty word in 2025. Can we say mumfluencer?
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Is that offensive too?
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I think influencers seem to hate being called influencers now.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: There's such a negative connotation on it. So maybe just
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: content creator. Yeah. Well, she now has 74,000 followers. So
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say she's a huge Aussie influencer.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: She seems to have.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Quite a dedicated following, but she also has a lot
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: of people who seem to dislike her. She has quite
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a large tattle threat. Yeah, and I feel like there's
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: been a couple of instances where someone has posted about
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: her in our Facebook group and we just get an
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: influx of followers. Jessica has blocked us on social media
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: on all of our accounts because I think because of
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: the threads in our group.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And this is why it's great that we have a
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Finster because I could still access her account for this story.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Now in 2021, Jessica launched a business called Bloom Store,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: which sells photo albums, baby books, and GIFs. And on Thursday,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: she was busy getting ready.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: To launch her new line of peel and stick albums,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: which I have to say looked pretty cool.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: So what is a peel and stick album? Well, it's
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: like an old school photo album where you peel back
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the plastic and you stick your photos down and then
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: she's got These cute stickers that you can bring to life,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: a holiday photo. That's now called a peel and stick album.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: That's what she's marketing it as.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: See, that made me think of like a sticker book
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: for kids. Well, it kind of is like that because
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: she's selling these colorful stickers that bring the photos to life.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Anyways.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Is it scrapbooking for people that don't have time to
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: put all of the effort in? It's kind of lazy scrapbooking. Okay.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I like the idea. So she showed herself on Thursday
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: sitting in front of her laptop. She had stacks of
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: stickers out in front of her and she conceded that
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: she was exhausted, but ready to launch that night. Now
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: in what wasn't the best timing for Jessica, a few
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: hours before her product was set to launch, a super
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: sleuth uncovered photo albums bearing the exact same design selling
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: on Alibaba for a fraction of the cost. Now, Alibaba is,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: of course, a wholesale marketplace which is known for dropshipping
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: products sourced from China, and it connects buyers with large
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: networks of manufacturers and suppliers who offer items at a
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: very competitive price.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: It is ideal for buyers.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Looking to purchase large quantities of products at a lower cost.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: And over the years, dropshipping and e-commerce brands have become influencers'
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: bread and butter. Yeah, it's fair to say that a
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: lot of influencers have made a name for themselves by
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: selling cheap products, particularly some of the more low-level influencers
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: by just spruiking any old crap on their Instagram. Now,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: what seems to have shocked a lot of people was
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: the disparity in price with Jessica's albums and the ones
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: on Alibaba. So on Alibaba, the albums were sold for
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: just $ 2 to $ 3 a piece if you ordered a
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: minimum of 300 albums. Whereas on Jessica's website, Bloom Store,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: her albums were listed as $ 74.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: 95.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Now, it was a bit awkward because the super sleuth
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: in question, actually uploaded the screenshot to our Facebook community
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and accused Jessica of purchasing the designs from Alibaba and
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: simply slapping her brand name on top. The anonymous user wrote,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: thoughts on influencers alleging they designed something that was purchased
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: from Alibaba and then sold for.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: $ 75 a pop.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Now this thread went off in our Facebook group and
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: it got a lot of people talking about the 2020
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: champagne flute saga. This is probably one of my favorite
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: stories we've ever covered on the podcast and OG listeners
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: will remember. that Olivia White was caught out selling Alibaba
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: glasses that she was passing off as her own design.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: And she spoke a lot about how the glasses represented
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: her mum's figure. And then, of course, it came out
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: that they were actually created on Alibaba with a huge markup.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: It was quite nice because one listener said they actually
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: discovered our podcast through that segment.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: It is a favourite of mine as well.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Now, in response to the Super Sleuths screenshots, one listener wrote,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: will epically fail just like Olivia White's custom wine glasses.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Whilst another said, slapping a logo on an Alibaba special
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: is not designing. I mean, she is one of the
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: laziest influencers going around, so I'm not surprised. I just
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: feel bad for people who spend $ 75 on a supposed
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: original design.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Bit harsh.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do want to point out that there
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: is much more to this story because these were merely
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: unfounded allegations, which Jessica has since come out swinging against.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: So hours out from her launch, Jessica was quick to
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: respond to the allegations. She wrote, It's come to my
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: attention that a photo of our new Peel and Stick
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: album is circulating alongside an Alibaba listing with claims that
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I've bought pre-made designs and passed them off as my own.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I want to be completely transparent and clear. That is
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: not what happened. She continued saying that she created the
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: designs in collaboration with Studio NU, which is the same
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: creative team she's been working with for years. She confirmed
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: she had receipts, date-stamped concept drafts, mood boards, and communications
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: which show the process of bringing the photo album collection
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to life. She continued saying the designs were imagined, revised,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: and finalized with intention, and that she was incredibly proud
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: of the work they did. She then explained why the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: same designs were currently being featured on Alibaba. She wrote,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: that the manufacturer we work with has used our designs
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to promote themselves on Alibaba. I was unaware this was
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: happening and will be following up with them immediately.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: She admitted that that part.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Was on her and she should have known to protect
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the designs and she is learning from it. She finished
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: by saying she wants her followers to know that she
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: pours her heart into every product that they create, and
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: that every phrase and colorway is carefully considered.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: She conceded that.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: The timing was heartbreaking with the news coming just as
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: she was preparing to launch. This would be absolutely awful.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Jessica did, as promised, share screenshots of her correspondence with
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: her graphic designer, Studio NU. For some background, it's a
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: boutique business based in Townsville and has four designers on
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: the team, which is quite interesting because sometimes when you
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: hear that influencers are working with graphic designers, you assume
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: that maybe it's a company based in another country that's
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: very cheap. This is clearly a boutique agency that she
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: has a connection with and a longstanding partnership with.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: So she uploaded an email showing Studio NU emailed her
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: the initial draft of the designs in mid-November last year.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: She then shared a WhatsApp conversation from the 5th of
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: February where the designer said she had emailed her the
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: new artwork. as well as subsequent messages showing screenshots of
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the designs as they were evolving. Yeah, so she did
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: bring all the receipts and she added at the end,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: that's all from me on this. I've shared the facts
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: and the process. I hope it clears things up. This
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: brand means the world to me and I'll always protect
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: the work we put into it. Now I'm shifting my
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: energy back into what really matters, celebrating a launch I'm
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: incredibly proud of. Thank you for being here, for supporting
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: small business and for choosing Bloom to help you tell
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: your stories. I instantly felt really sorry for Jessica because
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: this is clearly a young mom who has poured her
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: heart and soul into a small business for three years now.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: And it's quite clear that she has a relationship with
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: a genuine graphic design team that she's been working with
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: for years. And she didn't just rip these designs off Alibaba.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: In saying that, I'm surprised that the design team didn't
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: tell her to copyright the designs. Yeah, it is surprising
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: that they didn't do more to copyright these designs. It
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: does seem like the manufacturer took advantage in this situation.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I don't understand how it's legal for them to do so.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: A number of business owners in our group did take
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: the time to point out that manufacturers on Alibaba often
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: use photos of products that they have created to promote
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: the work that they've done. So sometimes they will ask
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: the customer if they can use the product image in
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: their listings, but other times they will just go ahead
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: and use it unless the customer has explicitly said so.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: So in this case, it seems like Jessica and her
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: graphic designer should have said, under no circumstances are you
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: to use our images. I mean, I can see how
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: this super sleuth jumped to the initial conclusion and how
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: people ran with it because influencers really do get a
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: bad rap for slapping their name on any old dropshipping
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: company and charging big bucks for it. In terms of
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: this situation, it's very unfortunate. It does seem like Jessica
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: was working with a manufacturer that does stuff for Alibaba.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of confusion around Alibaba as
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: a platform itself because Whenever you hear the word Alibaba,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: it has a very negative connotation. I think people automatically
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: assume that a business must not be legit if they
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: do their orders through Alibaba. When in reality, it is
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: a legitimate platform that connects a lot of businesses with manufacturers.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: And a lot of the time, small businesses work with
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Alibaba because that's all that they can afford. There also
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: seems to be a lot of confusion around pricing on
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: platforms like Alibaba because you know, you see this post
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: from the super sleuth and you think, oh wow, like
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I could just jump on Alibaba and get the same
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: photo album for.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Two to $ 3.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: But the reality is in order to get it for
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: that price, you've got to buy 300 of them. So
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the average customer isn't going to be doing that. Yeah.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: But I suppose it just demonstrates the markup that people
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: are able to put on these products.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: But that's also where there's some confusion because a lot
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: of business owners have come out and said that there
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: are so many hidden costs when it comes to all
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: of the importation taxes, any customizations you need. There's clearance fees, shippings,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: there's warehousing, also all the branding and marketing that goes
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: into promoting the product. So I don't think it's as
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: clear cut as saying, oh, this album was cost $ 2
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: to make. I feel really bad for Jessica because the
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: timing was absolutely terrible. And that's why I wanted to
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: clear things up on the podcast. There was a broader
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: conversation afterwards in our group as to whether this was
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: all orchestrated to try and destroy her launch. I mean,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: it seems to be a common occurrence these days that
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: as soon as an influencer launches a brand, people go
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: and do their research into it. We saw it on
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: the Molly May documentary. I mean, there were terrible reviews
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: about the fabric she was using. People started to pick
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: about where it was made. Even before she launched, there
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: was a TikToker who looked into her ABN and all
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: of the background details just to pick what business was
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: actually going to be because at the time there was
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of question marks as to what she was
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: actually launching. I would be so scared if I was
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: an influencer launching a brand in 2025 because the scrutiny
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: is so intense.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, it really is.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: And everyone just wants to prove, oh, they're not doing
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: it sustainably. It's not good enough. There's not enough sizes.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to act all innocent in
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: this because we have had quite a few segments diving
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: into some complaints about influencer brands, which have all been
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: substantiated though. Oh, I mean, there's a time and place
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: for it, but it just seems... because of that there's
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: been some bad stories Every time an influencer launches a brand,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: we just think the worst, that it mustn't be a
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: good thing. Yeah, and I think it came from a
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: lot of people almost wanting to believe the worst in
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: this brand and the worst in the influencer in question. Well,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: that's where we're going to leave things today. If you
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: do enjoy the podcast, we would love it if you
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: can make sure that you are subscribed on Apple and
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Spotify and leave us a five-star review. This podcast was
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: recorded on the traditional land of the Kaurna people of
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: the Adelaide Plains. We pay respect to elders past and present.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: Thank you.