Latest / Entrepreneur Odyssey / The Secret Sauce: Why Michelle Fired Clients Who Didn't Share Her Vision, and Succeeded

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The Secret Sauce: Why Michelle Fired Clients Who Didn't Share Her Vision, and Succeeded · Entrepreneur Odyssey

• Tejneet Selhi: Hello everybody and welcome back to the Entrepreneur Odyssey, the podcast where we sit down with experienced founders and CEOs to hear the real story behind building a business. The decisions that worked, the ones that didn't and everything in between. Today's guest, Michelle Tonkovitz, is the founder and CEO of Green Onion Creative. It's a women-owned strategic marketing agency based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. That has been growing brands nationwide for over 13 years. Michelle started business at 34 from her kitchen table when clients who knew her work simply just started calling. Since then, she's built a fully remote team content writing, PR, social media, graphic design, and many more areas. Michelle, welcome to the podcast. And one other point actually, Michelle, I believe you were named Business Times Notable Entrepreneur in 2025. Congratulations for that. Michele Tonkovitz: Thanks, Tajmeet. I was actually just thinking about that today, that it was about a year ago when the Biz Times in Milwaukee announced that I was one of the notable entrepreneurs. And boy has the last year really gone by. I'm so grateful to be on the show today and just to share some insights about my journey with Green Onion Creative and other areas of marketing. Tejneet Selhi: We are super excited to have you on the podcast today. I wanna kind of start at the beginning because I believe you were eight years old when you decided you wanted to work in advertising. know, many kids want to be doctors. or astronauts, what is it that sparked your interest? Do you want to walk us through that story? Michele Tonkovitz: Yeah, absolutely. And it was a very influential woman in my life, my auntie, who really is the one that inspired me to take this path down a career of advertising, marketing, and public relations. So my auntie was a media buyer in the Milwaukee area in the 1980s. And through her connections with clients and venues, we used to get to go to hockey games, go see Disney on ice, local water parks, all sorts of fun activities. And if you are a child of the 80s, like myself. She got to meet Jay Leno and Mr. T at a party and I thought that was the coolest thing ever. And so I said, I want to be in advertising, marketing, public relations when I grow up. And so I really did take that path all throughout all of my education, leveraging my creative writing skills and my personality of being able to communicate, to, really launch my career. And here I am today going to be turning 47. my auntie has since passed away, but I know that she was extremely proud of what I've been able to accomplish. Tejneet Selhi: Oh, well, your auntie sounds like a wonderful woman and how lovely that you had her to look up to and inspire you. And that's wonderful. I'm sure she's very, very proud. And also I want to say that you have the most beautiful skin. You don't look 47 at all. Michele Tonkovitz: He is so funny. Tejneet Selhi: So you've... I love that story by the way, but you've spent time working on Rachael Ray, Betty Crocker, Pillsbury, big consumer brands, which is a very different world from running your own agency. What's the single biggest thing that that career taught you that you still use every day today? Michele Tonkovitz: So that was a great point in my career. I had started off in advertising agencies as a proofreader and a copywriter. Then this remarkable opportunity with Reader's Digest came along where I was able to become a senior marketing copywriter for those brands in particular, Every day with Rachael Ray, Taste of Home, Betty Crocker, Pillsbury. And I loved that job. They had a test kitchen on site and we triple tested every recipe. So who doesn't want to eat pot pie at two o'clock in the afternoon? I gained 15 Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Michele Tonkovitz: pounds and it was fantastic. Tejneet Selhi: you Michele Tonkovitz: And so that was my really first experience in internal marketing for a company, for a corporation. And after leaving that, I went back into the advertising world. And even now, from that experience, as we work with our clients that have their own corporate internal marketing departments, I have a better understanding on how to collaborate and how to coach and mentor my team in collaborating with them, understanding the bigger picture vision goals. And it's been so wonderful because working in that food title, that food industry, I'm also able to work with a variety of food clients that service not only the Milwaukee area, but again, grocery stores throughout our entire nation here in the United States. So I really did learn so much. also made some of my best friends and colleagues still to this day who I'm super connected to, who have been contractors and freelancers for Green Onion Creative, but then also have referred work to us because they know the quality of the work the heart that myself and my team put into it. So it was just a very beautiful experience. Tejneet Selhi: lovely that's so lovely and can we talk about where did the name green onion come from? Michele Tonkovitz: Yeah, absolutely. So it was back in those Reader Digest days that sparked the name of Green Onion Creative all the years forward. Because when I started out, as you said, it was just me at my kitchen table. I wasn't even sure if I wanted to go back into the advertising agency world because my last experience there just wasn't the greatest. And so as former clients and colleagues, coworkers were coming to me with opportunities to help with PR, social media, website writing. I needed to develop an identity for myself, right? Brand identity and integrity is so important. And to be honest with you, I wanted to be called Purple Peacock, but somebody already had the name. So I was Tejneet Selhi: aww Michele Tonkovitz: thinking, what could I do? What was I? And it made me think of those days when I was writing about recipes. And green onions are a compliment to a dish often used, whether it's sprinkling a little bit of the green on top, adding a little zest, a little flavor, a little color. That's exactly what I was able to do as the solo woman entrepreneur at that time. But over the years, we've been able to grow green onions layers of awesomeness to include so many more team members, so many wonderful and talented professional women. And my green onion from the logo was designed by one of my designers at Breeders Digest. So lots of different ties back there. Tejneet Selhi: lovely I love that especially the little garnish on top because that represents what you do as your business or part of what you do and I love the fact that you started the agency because clients were already calling you I mean what a privilege to be in Michele Tonkovitz: So without my clients and my team, there would be no green onion today. But the way that the marketing landscape, right? The AI technology, the competition that just exists when we're looking at our social media feeds, how many of the posts do you see are sponsored or ads versus content that people are really pushing out? If it wasn't for the clients who believed in me, who pushed me to grow the team, who've really helped this business accelerate over the last 13 years, I wouldn't, don't think I would be able to do it all on my own again. And so that's some of my advice to the entrepreneurs out there listening is don't be afraid to grow your team. Yes, it's going to have financial implications and you may have to upgrade systems and have higher levels of subscription seats and whatnot. But if you just take a moment to breathe and plan out the strategy, bringing on more team members can really give you the leg up and the hand up that you need to take your business to the next level. Tejneet Selhi: Very cool, very, very nice. And let's talk about team, because obviously it was just you at your kitchen table. And how many team members have you now grown to? Michele Tonkovitz: Well, I'm still at my kitchen table, different kitchen, different table, almost years Tejneet Selhi: Thanks. Michele Tonkovitz: later. But when I look at the team, we've really grown. Initially, it was just Emery and Nikki who we brought on back in 20, nine, 2018 or 2019. And Nikki has since passed away. And she was an amazing and wonderful member of the green onion creative bunch who we just still think very fondly of and talk about it still today. But, you know, it was wonderful bringing them as content writing resources for one client in particular, but then I was able to see their talents and how that could grow out to serving some of the other clients that I had in my book of business. Along the way, we got Claire and Claire has been with Green Onion. We're not sure if it's four or five years now. She's been elevated through so many different positions that today she holds the title of Director of Public Relations and Social Media. And I couldn't be more proud of her and where she is going and growing. We added Chloe and Megan. both wonderful women who are super talented in that brand identity and integrity, so like the graphic design elements, but then also so smart in the digital marketing, talking about SEO and the AI and project management and coordination. So that's really our main core team. Then, you know, thinking about people who are a little bit newer, Fernando, he is a fantastic visionary of marketing strategy and creative concepts and then we can't can't overlook Angela and Eric who have been working with the Green Onion Creative Bunch again for many many years and they're really our super strong website designers and developers so I don't know however many fingers that is we have. Tejneet Selhi: Wow. That's awesome. I love that. And I speak to a lot of, you know, individuals, founders like yourselves from the marketing arena, many of whom actually outsource like this SEO work or web design work or whatever the case may be. But I love the fact that you made that decision to kind of bring it in house. That's great. I guess actually what made you do that as opposed to outsourcing. Michele Tonkovitz: Well, some of our partners are definitely outsourced. So they have their own businesses because, again, things like websites, we're not elbow deep building massive websites every day. But these partners have been part of our core group, right, that we feature them on the websites, that we include them because we are inclusive. But. Milwaukee is a small community. We call it small walkie, right? So it's not uncommon that people have their fingers in many different pies here. But the ability to assemble my own team, right? And have all of us be really focused on the core of what we're doing has, even though we're fully remote, we are constantly in contact with each other every day. And I think there's a difference there between assembling a team, that includes outside contractors, but doing it in a way where you don't necessarily feel like a client of theirs, that they're integrated and ingrained in what you're doing Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Michele Tonkovitz: too. So I really think it's all just how you establish the culture versus, like people would say to me, and I'm not knocking this in any way, but people go, well, why don't you just go to Upwork and have somebody. Tejneet Selhi: Right. Yeah. Michele Tonkovitz: and ensure that the people who use Upwork and who are on Upwork are extremely talented and their needs are met. But I'm in the relationship building business and I really like having the ability to establish a relationship, not only with our core team, but then the layers outside of us, you know, our vendor partners and whatnot. That's really, I think, something that sets Green Onion apart. Tejneet Selhi: I love that. I really like that. And not to mention you're giving opportunities for individuals in the local community. So think that's lovely. And so Green Onion Creative serves everyone from small businesses to local businesses to international manufacturers across content PR, social, et cetera. How do you decide who the right client is for yourself? Michele Tonkovitz: So this is a really great question and something that the Green Onion Creative Bunch, we went through an exercise over the summer of 2025, working with a business advisor to really just get a better clarity on who I am as a business owner, what Green Onion Creative is and who do we wanna serve. So we really created this ideal client profile. And while my heart is definitely with small businesses because there's this misperception of what a small business is. And I think the Small Business Association identifies if your business makes under $7.5 million, you're considered a small business. So far more people are considered a small business than what they really realize. So I think there's this misperception that small businesses are just like, just that mom and pop shop, right? That one woman, know, one man show. So many of us are small businesses. And... So I have the sweet spot in my heart for small businesses because I am a small business. Now, when it comes to being a startup, that's a little bit different because you are trying to hit the ground running. And so while we do want to provide some coaching and mentoring and guiding marketing services, the startup is not necessarily, we found, our primary client. We like somebody who's been established for a year or two who has a little bit more understanding of what their doing and who they're targeting. But if they need help with refining those messages, creating that brand identity, we are absolutely there to help them. We also really love working with companies that have that established brand to them, right? And because we can maybe be the extension of their arm to help out in the different areas in different ways. But one of the key things for us that we identified is clients need to be coachable because we're working very hard to create clear messaging that not only represents the company but resonates with their target audience. And so if the company does not believe in the messaging that we're putting out to the market, to the audience that is gonna be making the purchases or making the decisions, if we can't get that buy-in from the company down to the consumer, it's not going to work because you can't create a billboard and have the CEO say, every time I see that billboard, I hate it. I don't agree with the messaging. But if that's the message that resonates with the person seeing the billboard, then we need to have that CEO be coachable and understanding why we want that path. Tejneet Selhi: white. Michele Tonkovitz: We fired clients, we fired clients, we will step away from contracts because if we don't have that alignment, it's not going to work. Dollars are Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Michele Tonkovitz: nice to have, but also collaboration is key. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, absolutely, because ultimately you want your clients to be successful and you want to create something that's right for them. So I love that boldness to know, know what, actually this client isn't going to work out. I salute you for that. Michele Tonkovitz: Thank you. Tejneet Selhi: You mentioned that about 95 % of your business comes from word of mouth referrals. That's incredible proof of quality. are there any, have you had months in your, almost 13 years where there have been sort of quieter months? And if so, how do you manage that? Michele Tonkovitz: Yeah. Absolutely. And so when I look over the course of the last 13 years, I can see, especially more so with the introduction of new systems, can see trends on when some months are very accelerated with work, right? And some months we just have, or just quieter times. We do have some clients that have a seasonality to them. So we have a few clients that are in the performing arts, whether it's theater, a local symphony in town, another dance theater group. So their seasons right they ebb and flow. They're not always putting on performances so we've been able to identify with those clients when we're going to have our peaks and when we're going to have our valleys. There are other clients too that depending on when their fiscal year is starting or ending not always January 1 or July 1. We can also see trends in, my gosh, we're coming to the end of our fiscal year. We have these marketing dollars left in the budget. We need to spend them. Otherwise, we're going to lose them for next year. So there'll be times when things really ramp up. But most definitely the month of August, because we do have clients that are in the international space, the month of August tends to be pretty quiet for us. we don't, yeah, and we don't mind taking the summer break along with everybody else who's on holiday. Right. then, Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, absolutely. Michele Tonkovitz: yep. And then once we hit about the middle of November until the middle of January, that tends to be a quieter time as well. And my Green Onion Creative Bunch just loves the fact that pretty much from December 15th to at least that first Monday in the new year, that that's our two week time period to just breathe a little bit easier. We do the housekeeping, go have holiday time, cheer, take time, you know. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Michele Tonkovitz: So we do some seasonality components to it. Tejneet Selhi: That's nice though. And at least you know after almost 13 years when those periods are. it helps you manage the flow of cash and things like that. So yeah, know that's great. And obviously, you run a fully remote service, as you mentioned, mostly woman-led. How do you actually manage the day-to-day when your team is distributed and every client has different needs? How are you kind of managing that? Michele Tonkovitz: Yep. So we use a project management system called Asana. so, yep, so our Green Onion Creative Bunch, we use that as a form of communication amongst ourselves, kind of keep track of our budgets because that integrates with EverHour, which is our budget and time tracking tool. So from a system standpoint, and we actually have a few clients who use Asana with us because we found that that's a better way of communicating with them versus sending a variety of emails. who uses a program called Workfront, which I think is an Adobe product. So from a day-to-day standpoint of communicating about projects and whatnots, that's really how we're doing it. But we are constantly having weekly meetings with each other, whether it's one-on-ones with me or with other members of the team. We text message a lot because I'm out and about at so many events and meetings that it's so easy for email. to get pushed to page two in my inbox that my team knows, just shoot me a text, call me. If they see that I have a travel time blocked on my calendar because it's going from one meeting to the next, that's when they pick up the phone and they call me because they know they have a captive audience with me in the car so they can talk to me for 15, 30 minutes. And we do take opportunities to meet together to do co-working. And I took Chloe with me. to the Milwaukee Brewers baseball game last week, just so we could have a little bit of a bonding and appreciation. So we really tried to, she came with me to a member association lunch yesterday. I invited her to a networking opportunity that's happening next week. So we really look to work together day to day during the business hours. But if there's opportunities for us to trickle over and we're not burnt out, it's nice to see each other on that different plane as well. Tejneet Selhi: Awesome, I like that, I like that. Because I think if you've got the opportunity to meet occasionally, that's great. Although working from home now is a norm and much easier, isn't it, for many of us to manage work and home, right? But also I have to say you sound like a great boss to work for. Very flexible, which is great. So for an agency built around authenticity and high touch relationships, what's the work you find yourself doing that you wish you weren't? So stuff that takes time but isn't really where your sort of genius is, let's say. Michele Tonkovitz: Yeah. That's where my call after we're done doing this podcast is going to next. So, from, I'm a creative at heart, right? So when I started my career in copywriting and marketing strategy, what I don't love is the business operations. And we did have an online business manager who worked with us for many years and she was wonderful and she was doing great things with her career in other ways. but now with the introduction of AI. I know that there are opportunities to streamline some of the day-to-day business-y stuff that I Tejneet Selhi: you Michele Tonkovitz: don't love to do that eats up my time because I just haven't found the right fit to go back into that position. So... Again, I had mentioned some of these systems that we have and our previous business manager collected these systems intentionally because they're going to integrate with each other. But I know that there's better ways for us to leverage that. So the call I'm having next is with someone who has a focus in AI. Chloe and I did his podcast and talked about SEO and all Tejneet Selhi: Ready? Michele Tonkovitz: sorts of great things. And then he put together a proposal to see if the things that keep me up at night of, you know, the budgeting, the time tracking, the invoicing, all of that. That's what I don't love, but I know that we're getting closer to finding solutions so that I can do more of the things that I do have a passion, the coaching, the leading, the mentoring, seeing the vision and encouraging the team to pursue it. Tejneet Selhi: Amazing, amazing. And that's also what we do here at AI Efficacy, which is the business that I run. that, yeah, and that's what a lot of my clients that I work with talk about. It's the creative stuff that they like to do, or, you know, if they're in finance, it's the finance stuff that they like to do rather than say the operations. So that's very in line with what I hear for sure. So let's talk about when a client comes on board. How do you manage, let's say, the retention and the overall satisfaction of the customer? Michele Tonkovitz: Right. So when a client does come on board, I'm the primary point of contact, right? Who initiates with the relationships. Because as we talked about earlier, 95 % of our business, and again, I'm saying that with like a boost because math isn't my strong suit, but really all of business does come from word of mouth referrals. If somebody who has either seen me, met me, someone on my team, listened to a podcast, you know, I'm also president of the American Marketing Association, our local chapter. So, right, so I'm an authority in marketing in our community. so for the most part, I'm the initial point of contact with the agency first and foremost, from a client standpoint. And so bringing them on board, it's really important for me to be a part of that high touch initial onboarding process, having the kickoff meetings, introducing them to the team, letting them understand that this is how we operate. there are systems. Transparency is really important to me, but I believe in my team so much that I can say, Claire is going to be your primary point of contact. Everything that you need to do, you can hand off to Claire. Claire knows when to include me on the loop, when to CC me, when she has questions, she's going to pick up the phone, we're going to have everything taken care of. But again, by empowering, encouraging, and energizing my team, it gives them the confidence, it gives them the clarity. It establishes the trust that I don't want to micromanage you in your job day to day to day. But I'm here to coach, guide, and mentor. But my job is to go out and make sure that we are continuing to meet new people who want to come work with us. So it's more of a pull them in, right, because from the relationships that we're building. Tejneet Selhi: I like that you're empowering your team, which I think is so important. reporting-wise, do you have a reporting mechanism to kind the success of your customers Michele Tonkovitz: So with some of the systems that we use depending on what services the clients are working with us on. So we have a fantastic public relations tool that generates amazing reports that can help show that the return on investment, the number of oppressions, what's the sentiment of the story, what's the ad value equivalent, that little spend of $1,500 might have gotten them $15,000 worth of exposure. So same thing too from our social media standpoint. Our reporting and scheduling tool, Claire and Chloe and Megan, they know how to use these and can pull and generate these wonderful reports. Then from, again, our time tracking and budgeting system. We use a program called Ever Hour that's able to generate reports that are really easy for me to read. And then have new accounting partners as well who are working with me in QuickBooks. So I'm now getting to see reports from QuickBooks on how the business is operating from a financial health standpoint and be able to understand the of the business that way, which is really helpful because again as I'm girl who works in words and not numbers to be able to see these reports but numbers that mean are meaningful because I will say this as a good marketer knows you can generate any report you can show me any number I can tell whatever story you want me to tell with it Tejneet Selhi: are you currently using any AI tools within your business, either from an operations standpoint or for your clients at the moment? Michele Tonkovitz: Yeah, so. The luncheon that Chloe and I went to yesterday, a component of it was about AI and understanding AI and how you're leveraging it. And so it was very interesting that the presenters were saying that Gemini, CHET, GPT, and Claude are the top three. And those are AI tools that we used at Green Onion Creative as well. So we definitely believe in the use of AI. It's a great idea primer. The output is not the the exact thing that we're going to be rolling with. We do need that human intervention, that being the person forward. We absolutely do use AI from a creative standpoint to help us get the wheels in motion a little bit quicker. From an operational standpoint, yeah, it's wonderful. It's such a time saver when we're putting together proposals or we need to investigate or better understand a certain industry. Some of our tools as well, I was mentioning the public relations tool that we use. It has AI features built in. So it's making sure that we're putting the key words in all the right key places that the press releases are being written in a way that the reporters and the digital audience want to see. we are using AI as a tool in our toolbox. like a hammer is a great tool. can't build an entire house on its own, right? So AI is just one Tejneet Selhi: Yes. Michele Tonkovitz: of the tools that we use to help build the house. Tejneet Selhi: Absolutely. And that's what I really speak about to my clients all the time, is that it is a tool in the toolbox. It's not there to replace anyone. It's there to supplement what you're already doing, right? So you can focus on doing the things that you enjoy doing. And actually it can be... it can and should be trained, as I'm sure you know, right? So the more context you give it, the better it's gonna perform for you. So yeah, no, I think your outlook on it is great. So again, we touched on it, you're the president of the AMA Milwaukee, of Milwaukee, sorry, and you speak at many, many events. So you're clearly visible in your market. Does that visibility translate late sort of new business or is there sort of a gap between being known and getting hired would you say? Michele Tonkovitz: So I absolutely love being part of the AMA Milwaukee and the visibility. I've been president for, I think this is my fifth year in this position. And I don't mind it. No one else on the board wants to step up. I think we're all kind of happy, but I someday we'll pass the baton down to someone else. But I think for me, I really just love the field of marketing so very, very much. And I make sure not to use my presidency with the American Marketing Association, Milwaukee Chapter, as a sales tool for Green Onion Creative. I'm representing the AMA. I'm representing marketing in our community as a whole. Yes, people absolutely know that I am the owner of Green Onion Creative, and these are our core services. And if anybody wants to talk to me about those services, I'm happy to do it. But really my focus when I'm representing the AMA is to help other people learn, connect and grow. And there have been people I've met. So Eric, who is our website designer, I met him at an AMA event that he came to and it must have been in 2018 or 2019. And so through the AMA is how I was able to establish this relationship with this amazing man who does fantastic work. And together, because we've come together, we've been able to attract business, right, through word of mouth referrals, that people who've known us and met us at events. So I'm really excited. We have a couple of networking events coming up. And again, it's through that organic relationship building of me just coming first with one of us as a person, as a marketer, that sometimes it does trickle into business. if anything, if I can just give insights to help inspire Fire, right? Encourage, empower, energize people. That's where I find the value in what I'm doing. Tejneet Selhi: that's amazing. And I love that because you're giving your expertise to the community. And that's wonderful. I love that. So obviously many of our listeners are newer founders or maybe in some cases experienced founders that are looking for new bits of advice. But if a founder in your audience is thinking about hiring a marketing agency, what would you suggest that they think about when they decide who they're going to go with? Michele Tonkovitz: Well, if anybody has ideas in mind, this is what we've been talking about with the AI. Absolutely ask AI, what are the best marketing agencies? And you really think about the prompt that you're doing. What are the best marketing agencies that specialize in the things that you specialize in? Be very specific. If you don't want to do all the typing, just hit the little microphone button and just speak to the AI like you're speaking to another person. Let it know what your budget is, but be cautious. when you're talking about budget dollars to AI, because it really, it's just pulling different information. It doesn't get into the processes of why people are budgeting out and charging the rates that they're doing. That's gonna have to be a deeper conversation. But then also ask it, what are the negative things people are saying about various agencies or various individuals? Because that can help you also just kind of shape up the perception. Again, we have to be realistic in what are the things that you wanna do If you're looking for a social media partner, just through social media, make sure that you're asking very specifically. And then be a part of associations. Go to different networking events. So you might not be in marketing, but maybe there is a marketing event like what the AMA in Milwaukee is having, where you can go and attend and meet other marketers and really just do that one-on-one, like a focus group. Go to events and do these kind of mini interviews to see who that you're meeting connecting with. It's amazing what happens when we get outside of our box and get beyond our computer screens and really just connect with people. Tejneet Selhi: Great advice, really great advice. And our time is going so quickly, so I have just a couple of more questions for you. Firstly, what's your vision for green onion creative? Where would you like it to be in say the next six to 12 to 18 months and beyond? Michele Tonkovitz: Yes, absolutely. So where I'd love to see Green Onion Creative grow in the next six months is have a better handle on these business operations standpoints. So I know that as a business owner, I can step away from Green Onion for a week and everything is going to run fine. I know I can go away for two weeks. I've done it before. I've gone to Europe. Everything runs fine. But when it comes to that once a month operations, right, the invoicing, the payroll, all those things, that's the part that I am not confident and super secure on yet. But we're working towards it. So in six months from now, I would love to be able to know that I have all the systems properly in place. The team is confident and clear in what they're doing, that I can trust them all. for me to be able to step away from the business for one month, right? Not because I don't want to do the business, but because I know that we have everything in place. That's going to be the biggest test for me, and I'd love to be able to be that point in six months. If not in six months, then we know that we need to make refinements, so that may be a year from now. But ultimately, this amazing team of talented marketing professionals I have, my goal is to continue to elevate elevate them. I don't want any of them to ever leave. I want them to feel so encouraged, so empowered, so energized by the work that they're doing with the clients at pay that is sustaining their life and also elevating their lives. That I want to this team and continue to build them up, lift them up so that in three years from now, I can peel further back from the business and be able to do more philanthropic works, more advisory, do more mentorships, out and do a greater speaker circuit to, again, to just help inspire and motivate marketers and individuals in all different areas of their lives. Tejneet Selhi: I love that. What a great vision. Fantastic. And then final question. For new founders just starting out, what's the one piece of advice that you would give them in order to kind of stay on the path despite any challenges that they're seeing? Michele Tonkovitz: There are gonna be days where it's hard and you're going, why did I do this? There will be lots of sleepless nights of waking up and going, my God, the anxiety of how am I going to pay the bills? But just breathe and believe in yourself, right? Have beliefs outside of yourself too. And I'm not necessarily just speaking about religious beliefs, but believe in other people, right? When you sit there and you hold it in, go, nobody else can do it the way that I can do it. You're not going to do anything. You have to have faith. You have to have belief. And do not be afraid to ask for help. Perhaps using a system like Upwork, right, is what you can do in your financial needs to be able to get you the help that you need, then go right ahead and do it. Look at temporary agencies, look at universities, bring in interns, right? But don't feel that you have to do everything because if you do everything, you're not going to be able to successfully do anything. Tejneet Selhi: Great advice, really, really great advice, thank you. Michelle, this has been such a wonderful conversation. I've really, really enjoyed it and I've learned a lot and I'm sure our listeners have. 13 years, almost 13 years building something you believe in is so admirable. And it's been one referral at a time by The Sounds Feed, which is fantastic. And that's the kind of story that reminds you why entrepreneurship is worth it, I think. And if any of our listeners and to the podcast want to follow Michelle, you can see what Green Onion Creative is up to. You can find them greenonionecreative.com. And do want to tell us what your socials are as well, Michelle? Michele Tonkovitz: So we're. Green Onion Creative is on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. And I think we're all just Green Onion Creative, if you look it up that way. And then I'm also on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. So if you want to, you can connect with me on those platforms as well, or shoot me an email. It's Michelle with 1L at greenonioncreative.com. I just, really appreciate the opportunity to just come out and have this really great, wonderful organic conversation. because now we just built this relationship and that means so much to me. Tejneet Selhi: Absolutely and me too, me too and I really encourage any of the listeners that are thinking about thinking you know what I need a better marketing strategy. think Michelle and Green Onion Creative is where you need to go because you know when you build a company on referrals I think that speaks for itself in terms of the quality so congratulations once again you've done such an amazing job and thank you to all of my listeners really appreciate appreciate you tuning in and if you've learnt something which I'm sure you have from this episode, please do give us a follow. We have many great podcasts guests coming up soon. Until next time, keep building and thanks again, Michelle. Michele Tonkovitz: Thank you. Bye everybody.