Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 428: Solving the Whitetail Puzzle with Jarrod Erdody

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Ep. 428: Solving the Whitetail Puzzle with Jarrod Erdody · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host Mark Kenyon.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan, and today in the show, I'm joined by
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Jared air Dottie to discuss how he analyzes, breaks downs,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and solves the white tail puzzle. All right, welcome to
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: the Wired Dunt podcast, brought to you by First Light.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: As I just mentioned, we've got Jared air Dottie today
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: on the show. Jared is most known from two different places.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I would guess you maybe have seen him on the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: white Tail Addictions TV show. That's the Lone Wolf Show
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: with Andre de Quisto and that whole group of incredible
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: deer hunters. Jared is part of that crew and he
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: is equally incredible at targeting big, mature white tailed deer
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: with his bow. He also was one of the founders
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: and creators of the Blood Brothers and then now known
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: as Next Buck DVD series. UH. If you've seen marsh
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Country Bucks or hill country Bucks or farm country Bucks,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: these DVDs involving Jared, his buddy Lee and Dan Infalt, Uh,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: they have been kind of foundational pieces of education for
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of us serious deer hunters. Uh, that came
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: out in the early two thousand's. I think ish in
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: that timeframe I picked him up. I think in two
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: thousand nine maybe tals and ten and Uh. You can
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: just see from those DVDs the immense well of knowledge
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: that Jared is pulling from. And in the years since,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: he's continued to have tremendous success targeting deer while also
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: raising a family and balancing all that. He's got a
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: really great analytical approach to deer hunting. Ah. He he
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: embraces this h scouting and mobile centric approach that a
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: lot of people are finding success with today, but he
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: brings to it his own unique set of kind of
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: mental thought processes. And so today on the show, what
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I want to do is walk through with him what
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: those thought processes are. How he goes about scouting and
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: identifying buckbetting areas, how he goes through and thinks about
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: setting up and hunting these areas. How he considers finding
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: the spot within the spot. How do you put all
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: these pieces together? Right? We're solving this puzzle every season,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: even every day we go out to hunt. It's a
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: new puzzle. And what Jared shares this today is how
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: he personally thinks about that puzzle and how he figures
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: out how all of these different layers of information go together.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: It's a fascinating conversation. I really enjoyed it. Jared has
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: a lot to share, and I know you're going to
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: enjoy this one. So without further ado, I'm gonna let
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: you get right in to this episode. The only thing
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I will mention just as a heads up on the
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: first Light front right. First Light is part of our
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: mediator team. They have launched and now have available their
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: full white tail catalyst system and the new Solitude jacket,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: all unavailable in the new Specter white tail camouflage pattern.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So if you want to fill out the rest of
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: your set up for the upcoming hunting season and utilizing
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: that new camera pattern, which which I've been loving use
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: last year. It works like a charm, you can check
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: it out at first Light dot com. The only other
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: news I'll mention is make sure you are checking out
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: all the new content we have from Wired to Hunt.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: As we mentioned last week, it's not just a podcast anymore.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: We've got a website, we've got new video series, we
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: have the New Foundations podcast, from Tony. You can find
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: it all at the meat eater dot com slash wired.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: We've got everything there for you to find. If you
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: want to take your white tail know how to the
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: next level, this is how to do it. So check
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: it out and without further ado. I know I said
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: that once before. Now I'm gonna say it for the
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: last time. Let's get into my conversation with Jared Enjoy
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: all right with me. Now on the line is Jared ERDDI. Jared,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: thank you for being here in the show. M very welcome. Mark.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I'm excited for this conversation. You are. You're someone who
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I've I've kind of followed from Afar and and kind
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: of just sucked in all the information from I could
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: for a long time, as many people I'm sure did
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: with your really influential DVD series that came out many
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: years ago. Um, and it's it's just great to get
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: to finally get to pick your brain in person and
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: dive into things that I've kind of been curious about
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: for years and have went out in the field and
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: tested and tried and thought about and then oftentimes wonder man.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you know, I'd like to ask
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Jared about this. I wonder what Lee would think about that. Uh, so,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: so this is great. I'm looking forward to it and
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: uh there's lots to come or so if you're if
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: you're up for if you had enough coffee this morning,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking we should just get right into the meat
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and potatoes and things. Yeah, yeah, I'm good with that. Mark.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me. Yeah. What I was hoping
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: to do was was dissect your approach to deer hunting.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: And it seems like you had a somewhat similar beginning
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: to your deer hunting journey to me. Um, given that
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: you were hunting up in northern Michigan and your family
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: was kind of put the bait out there and sit
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: over it and wait on things, right, Um, remember right
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: on that? Yeah, spot on, as as most of us
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Michiganders exactly. So I lived the same life and uh
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: it never worked very well for us. And from what
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I get from what I hear, it seems like you
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: did that for a long time and then you had
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: an aha moment, You had some kind of shift in
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: your perspective and then things started changing for you. Can
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: you describe what that ah ha moment or series of moments.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Was that took you from you know, hunting the way
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: you always used to and having the same old, same
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: old results to all of a sudden changing and seeing
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a different set of results. What was that for you? Yeah,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I would say if if there was a I wouldn't
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: say it was one particular hunt, but it was probably
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: a particular season and or seasons, you know, kind of
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: when I was I would say, thirteen, fourteen years old.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: We moved to the Upper Peninsula when I was thirteen.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: When I was twelve actually um, but the fall by
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the time I was fall of eighty eight, I was
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: thirteen that fall, and so that was my first experience,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: my second year bow hunting. UM. And we we met
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: some neighbors up in the in the up there that
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: you know, it's just kind of took us under their
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: wing and said, you know, this is how we do it.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: You know. So we were truck and baited in to
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: our spots, you know, almost on a daily basis. Fourth
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: season and then uh, you start hunting these spots come
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: season and in hindsight, you know, you look back and
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: you're like, the first one or two sits was really it,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: and then it was done. You know they were onto you,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: onto us. We weren't looking at wind, wind direction or
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: whether you know, really at all. It was just go
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: hunt your bait. You know, here's your tree standard or
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: your ground blind and just hunt it. So in that season,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think I had any opportunities that first year,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: but the second year I wounded. Um. I wounded three
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: different bucks when I was fourteen. That was part of
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: an AHA moment as far as equipment and preparation, and
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: we all go through that stuff, and I think that's
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: part of the learning phase of things. And then when
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: I was fifteen, I ended up killing four bucks. I
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: shot my first buck ever out in Colorado. I wanted
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: a mule there hunt with my dad. But then I
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: got back to Michigan and I killed my first buck
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: with a bow, and then I killed two bucks with
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: a gun back when you could kill four in Michigan. Um.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: But as as those those couple of seasons were really
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: where things transitioned from hunting over bait all the time
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: and gradually seeing less and less and less two then
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: UM kind of realizing that okay, my first few chances
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: are it, you know, and then I blew them, and
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: then starting to actually have some success and and score.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: But then those spots didn't keep working out, you know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: things changed, and so um, part of part of what
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I was realizing is and I think it was, uh,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: my dad had a theater stand. Um, he had a
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: tree stand in a clump of theaters, and and he
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: baited it all the time. And first again, first few sets,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: you know, one of us would have some action. I
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: think my brother, Um, I think he wounded a spike
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: corn out of that stand. Um that season might have
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: my timing off. But I sat it a week or
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: so later and I just wasn't seeing Dear, But I
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: was seeing them coming out of this other side of
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: this field. Um, you know, there's it was an egg
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: or anything. It was just an opening in the in
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the swamp basically. But I was watching him come out
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: of this other side. And so you know, I'm I'm
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: sick of not seeing Dear. I just started. I went
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: for a walk and I got over there and I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: found two or three fresh rubs and in a kind
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: of runway, and I was like, well, I might as
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: well try it, you know, so and and I actually
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: found an old it was an old ladder stand that gosh,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I probably hadn't been used in twenty years. So I
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: kind of secured them some things up and I sat
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: that in the first evening, I sat that I had
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: a small nine pointer, which it was a three year
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: old buck in the ups, you know, about as old
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: as they get some sometime as you would think. Um,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: but I had a three year old buck. It was October,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I believe, um walking just kind of shadowing Adulla that evening.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: She walked right past me and then he walked by
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: me at fifteen yards And that was my first buck.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't over bait. It was just a natural
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: movement thing in the swamps up there, and and I
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: was hooked. It was like, get me away from these
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: bait piles. And so that that was kind of what
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: it became. Is um, just that realization of number one
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: getting off of bait, and but more more still than
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the bait, because I do believe baiting can be very effective,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: and I've done it since then. Um, But it's that
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: realization of educating the deer and they be an onto
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: your presence and uh and just avoiding you. And it's
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: not that they leave the country or the county. Um,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: it's not that they even go nocturnal, and in many
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: cases it's that they just know that, hey, there's hunters
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: there and I'm not going to go there. So so
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: the next couple of years in high school, like I
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: usually killed um, three year old bucks are better just
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: by doing UH. And that was really cool. I mean
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: that independence number one of breaking away and just not
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: hunting dad's stands anymore, but picking my own spots UM
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: usually away from bait and then UH and and having
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: more success. So once I got to Southern Michigan, UM,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I was playing college baseball, so we didn't have much
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: time to to hunt, but usually by the end of
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: October we were done. We had one of our our
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: friends or friends of the team I should say, one
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of the boosters that had some land and he let
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: me in another teammate hunt there. I got down there
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and I thought I was in heaven. I mean I
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: was seeing like one or two year old bucks every set.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: And I had never hunted out of a portable tree
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: stand and I didn't have one yet, I didn't own one.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: So we're sitting on the ground every night, and we
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: were you know, they were approaching us from the wrong
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: side or we didn't have shooting lanes cut. It was
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: just like Willie Nilly, you know, it was so only
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: mobile hunting, but not with the kind of equipment that
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: would have made me much more effective back then. But
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: UM really cool, UM, really cool history to to look
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: back on those memories of stumbling my way through, um
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: figuring things out. And then once I remember the first
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: lock on stand. I got a lock on limb tree
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: stand UM from d n R Sports Center in Kilna Zoo.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: And that was you know, that was it. I was.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I've got it made.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Now I can get up in a tree and you know,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: use these screw in steps and stuff, and UM, so
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I started having some more success. And then I met
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a guy when I was going to grad school at
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: you have Them, UM, I met a guy that also
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: kind of took me under his wing. I was door
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: knocking all day on a Saturday Sunday in the ann
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Arbor area and uh, I met a good friend to
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: this day that um let me hunt with him and
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: he was the first one that put me on the
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: lone wolf stands UM. And so I remember sitting in
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: this stand one morning. He had he had a stand
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: and he's like, well, just you know, just choose this one.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And and I was sitting in it that morning. It
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: was frosty and cold, and I'm sitting there like this
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: stand isn't squeaking, and what's going on? I started trying
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: to make it squeak. I'll be done. I mean, I
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: got to talk to him about this, and and that
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: was I think it was like, um seven and and
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: he told me about him and how much they cost
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: you because they were always been a lot more than
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: the rest of them out there. But I'm like, oh
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: my gosh, I'm in college. I can't get those yet. Um.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: But then fast forward a couple of years once I
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: finished graduate school. UM, my stepbrother had started a knife company,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: and um, I was helping him out with trade show
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: see runs. He owns Rapid River Knife Works up in
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Rapid River, Michigan. And when when I was at those shows,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: that was when I first met Andre and and and
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Dan Infalt. And with my background and art and design
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and photography and video and in my previous few years
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: of hunting out alone wolves and getting more mobile and
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: having more success and always being a fan of videos
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: and watching you know, probably yourself. You know Dan Fitzgerald
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and and all the video guys that you know, the
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: real true Monster Buck series, and watching every hunting video,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I could nobody's talking about how to how to kill
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: these bucks, you know, in a pressured situation or um
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: on a you know, non outfitted basis. Um, they're just
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: they're just all about um plugging, plugging their products or
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: or the outfitter that they're with. And at those shows
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: was when I started talking to those guys about you know,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: what if what if we made a video that taught
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: people how to do it? And that was kind of
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the birth of things. Yeah, and and that that's a
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: great segue because those videos, because I think I mentioned
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: at the top, really were foundational for a lot of people.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people that are today super
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: successful in the white tail woods, uh can point back
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: to those as as being a great, great start for them.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I mean it helped me a ton and a bunch
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: of my hunting buddies. I know, probably twelve thirteen years
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: ago maybe is when I picked him up and all
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: my friends are, yeah, you gotta watch this, you gotta
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: watch this, And I did, and it helped just click
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: help click things together. Um, and if anyone hasn't watched
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: those videos, they should. But what I'm really curious about,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I want to go through a bunch of other things
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: that you did discuss in there, But at a high level,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering you did your has your general roach? Maybe
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: let me take one step back. You kind of talked
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: us through where you came from as far as how
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: you start hunting and how that evolved, and you you
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: you kind of fell into the idea that being mobile
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: helps etcetera, etcetera. But now, can you tell me if
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: you were in a elevator and you had thirty seconds
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: before you got to the fifth floor that you're gonna
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: get off, and there's one of the persons that elevator
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: with you, and you need to explain like this is
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: this is my hunting philosophy, this is the key to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: my hunting success, and thirty seconds that that generalizes your
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: approach to targeting mature white tail box. How would you
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: how would you sum that up quickly as like the
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Jared already approach today? Yeah, it's it's probably gonna sound
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: like others you've talked to um, But if I had
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: thirty seconds, I would tell them figure out where a
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: buck bets where the buck you want to kill his betting,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and don't let him know you're hunting him. And and
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: that's that's really what it comes down to. When I
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: started learning where deer we're living and learning how to
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: figure out if you had one around. You know, obviously
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: trail cameras have helped that immensely, but if you have
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: one around, that's worth hunting, figuring out where he's living,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: where he's spending his time. Um. Then and and then
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: the general observation that don't let them know you're hunting him.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: That that kind of sums it up for me. You
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: it comes to, like Andre coined the phrase virgin sits.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: You know, you just you gotta have that element of surprise. Um.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: But that that's really what it's about to me too.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: You just can't over hunt stuff to the point where
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: they are educated. Um. There there several times now where
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: you guys think I don't ever hunt the same spot
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: twice in a season, and that's not true. Um. I
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: may hunt him a few times times, especially during the rut,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: you know, when things are different, but in general it's
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: not to the point where they're educated. You know, we
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: can keep things fresh by moving around. Yeah, well, let's
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: let's start the first part of that, then the whole
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: aspect of betting knowing where they live. Um, it's pretty
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: intuitive in a lot of ways, but if you had
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: to describe for yourself, why do you view understanding betting
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: as the number one first you know, first priority when
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: you're trying to figure out a new place or trying
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to put together hunting strategy in your thoughts? Why is
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: that so important? Why is that the crux to everything else? Well,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: the main reason is because that's what dear do their
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: day is they bed, they're they're in their bed a
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: mature buck. I'm not going to talk about does or
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: young bucks, but um, that mature buck is most most
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: of the time going to be betted. Um. And so
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: when you look at the big picture of whether it's
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: a morning hunt or an evening hunt, you have to
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: be x amount of yards from that deer's bed in
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: order to have any chance of seeing him in daylight
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: that day. And in some states that might be a
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: few hundred yards or more um. In other states and
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: areas it may be fifty or a hundred yards UM.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: So that's that's really why it's so important because that's
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: where they spend the daylight hours, and that's all we
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: have to hunt them. Um. And and then you you know,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: so from there you figure out where's the chink in
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: his armor that's gonna allow me to see him when
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: he's on his feet. Yeah, let's let's talk about then,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: how you identify those spots. Um. You guys did a
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: great job covering this in the in the DVDs in
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: the past. I'm curious. I want to walk through each
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: of the different major terrain types and how you look
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: about how you think about identifying those betting ears. But
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: in particular, I'm really interested in also if your views
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: have evolved at all on any of these things since
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: those original videos. So, for example, when it comes to
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: like swamps and marshes and you're thinking about betting, um,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: can you walk me through, you know, where some somebody
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: should start looking for that, what kinds of features will
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: help them keen on what where those buck betting areas
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: might be. And then is there anything different now than
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you know fifteen or however many years ago it was
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: when you guys put this information out to the public
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: on those videos. Yeah. The cool thing about it, and
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: this was a big reason I I saw a value
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: in making those videos is because I think it's timeless information.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, unless the terrain changes and the topography changes,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I really don't see a big difference or a shift
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: in in how they bed now versus twenty years ago.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: If things are the same. Obviously, foliage and you know, um,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: trees and brush will grow and and change, and the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: canopy and those kind of things can change. Pressure can
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: change what they're doing, but all else be an equal.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I don't see a big difference in and what they're doing,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: especially with hill country and thermals. Um, they still will
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: bed too to those advantages. You know where they want
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: to look, you know, look to where they can't see,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: and smell what's behind them and smell thermals coming up.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: In the general sense bed and betting on lee sides
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: of hills. I mean, to this day, I still use
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: that for success hunting elk out west honey, mule deer
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: out West Um. Last year I killed an elk and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: a mule deer, and it was largely because of those
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: those concepts in those videos. When I when I look
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: at a new spot or a historical spot that I
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: may have known for a long time, those are still
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the concepts that will ring true. So if you learn
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: those in and you know, really keep those in mind
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: with any spot you're hunting, they're gonna stay pretty true
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: to form. Yeah. So so let's do a little more
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: detail then into that that hill country example you describe.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: You mentioned a bunch of things. They're kind of rapid
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: fire least out of the hill, you know, catching wind
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: over their back. But can you can you maybe paint
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: the picture in a little bit more detail of exactly
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the type of spots you're going to key in on
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: and and why you think those bucks prefer those places. Yeah,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's all about a deer having an advantage, um,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the best advantage he can to survive, you know. And
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: it's not just humans, but it's against predators and andre
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and I talked about this many many years ago, but um,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: humans are a small percentage of the threats that a
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: buck or any deer has out in the wild. Um
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: so when you I guess, uh, trying to think of
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: a better analogy offhand, but um, it's it's like anything,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: you know, the dominant animal is going to get the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: best spot, right, and the best spots seem to be.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: You know, where those mature bucks are betting. It typically
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: is in those types of scenarios. So if it's hill country, um,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: they want to have the wind to their advantage, of
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: visual visual to their advantage. And so what what we've seen,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and this is what this was in the early two
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: thousand's when when I first started hunting the steeper stuff
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: out west, you know, along the Mississippi and stuff. I'd
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: sit there in the bottom of the valley, I'd get winded. Um.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many times it took me, but
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I'm watching these deer just regularly about a third of
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the way down from the top of the hill. And
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: so over those years, as as I started scouting more
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and walking those hills and just seeing really observing what's
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: going on. Um, you've got a collision of air currents
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: um just over the edge. It's not necessarily a third,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: it's not always right over the top or or halfway
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: up or anything. But there's a collision of air currents
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: when you have a prevailing wind coming over a ridge
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: and you have thermals from the bottom coming up. And
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: again this is during the daytime, not you know, usually
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: it's depend on the temperature shift that day, it's an
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: hour or two after daylight. But as those thermals come
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: up and a prevailing wind comes over, there's we kind
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: of we coined at this thermal tunnel or a mixing
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: zone where those air currents collide. And that's really where
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: those deer like to bed because they've got the best
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: of both worlds. They've got wind in their face coming
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: up and a prevailing wind coming over the top. So
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: they feel pretty invincible there. And and it's it rings
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: true to this day. I mean, if I go anywhere
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: almost anywhere, but in hill country where you've got systems
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: of ridges and fingers and points going off of ridges,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: and you walk those ridges, that's tip quickly where you're
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: going to find your beds. And the best buck bedding
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: um is typically on points um given prevailing winds. You know.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: So it's gonna shift based on where prevailing wind is,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: but they're going to typically be on those on those
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: points um where they have that advantage to themselves. So
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and it may or may not be with a tree
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: to their back or a blowdown to their back or something.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Typically though, they like to butt up to some cover
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: behind them um where they can see in front of
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: them and not be approached from behind. Um. But yeah,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: that's that's what we're observing. Yeah, So what about a
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: scenario like this. I've encountered this myself, where I've gone
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: and been scouting that kind of area looking for these
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: places where you think bucks of bed and there's sometimes
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: these ridge systems where there's points coming off frequently, many
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: of these points that seem pretty similar, all poking off
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: the main ridge out into the larger drainage. And every
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: one of those points, we'll have a handful of beds
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: on it. A couple here, the next one, we'll have
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: a couple to three here, next one, we'll have the
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: same kind of thing. And when you go down a
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: ridge and there's nine points like that over the course
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: of I don't know, a half mile or something, and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: they all have beds on them, and they all have
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: some rubs coming up off the top. How do you like?
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: What are the things you think about when trying to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: prioritize or trying to figure out, Okay, this is where
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: the mature bucks actually spending most of the time, or
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: these few are where the mature buck is spending the
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: most time. Um, have you ever encountered situation like that,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: where there seems like there's so many potential great spots
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: for a for a group of bucks or a buck
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: to bed. Yeah, I guess maybe not exactly like that,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: but I know what you mean. I mean, we're sometimes
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: the sign can just look so similar that it's hard
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: to point out anyone particular spot to start, right. And
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: and that's that's quite awesome the case. I mean, it's
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: it's rare, um that you go out and you find
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: just the or fixed scenario of oh my gosh, this
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: point at this point only has giant rubs and big
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: beds and nothing else does. Um, that's kind of rare, right,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I've done. Like when I hunted the big woods in Ohio. Um,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: this is probably about six or eight years ago, when
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: I probably longer than eight or ten years ago, when
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I first started hunting down there, um, and I kind
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: of saw that scenario. And I spent basically two full
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: days walking nothing but big woods and ridges and stuff.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And in those two full days, I found about three
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: points that just kind of stuck out more than others
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: where those ones did have the big rubs and the
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: rest were pretty similar, you know. And so part of
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it for me is Um, you know there's always that balance. Okay,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: how much time do you have? You know, I don't
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: have a full week to scout this or to hunt it. Maybe, UM,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: you go down with a certain plan that I've got
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: three days, I'm gonna scout for two days and or
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: one day, or I'm gonna scout all day and I'm
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: gonna hunt the evening. It all depends on your individual plan, right,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: and so if you walk all day and you you
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: see nothing but similar sign then you're gonna end up
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: taking a flyer, right, taking your best guess. Um, you
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: may put out cameras and try to hone in on
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: what the difference is. UM. Typically too, if you're if
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: it's a time of year, like I guess, if it's
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: early season, you're probably not just blowing through and scouting
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: ridges like that are super thick and really hard to
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: walk through. Um, it's probably opening up and it's late October.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: So I'm I'm more so keying in on some primary
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: scrapes along those ridges because, um, especially Ohio or Wisconsin,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: they're a little more apt than Michigan to be on
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: their feet, you know. But um, primary scrapes on ridges
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: tend to be something that will pop up. If you
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: walk enough, you're going to find areas that okay, this
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: is where the bucks in the area are are moving towards,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: even though the points may look similar. Um, then then
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: that that tends to be your focus. But yeah, I mean,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: if if you've got pretty generic sign, then uh, you
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: gotta start somewhere right, and then you start that's we're
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: bopping around tends to help, but you're also trying to
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: factor in lots of things, you know, whether you're shining
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: the area and what you're seeing, or you're running trail cameras,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: or you're talking to somebody, or you've got pictures or visuals, um,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: something is going to indicate Okay, I've seen a big
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: one in this area or somebody else has, and then
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: you start scouting and trying to hone in on it,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: you know, and putting those puzzle pieces together so and
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: and knowing that, Okay, if a buck was seen in daylight,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: he was you know, and unless it's peak or something
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: where he may have traveled a long ways, if he
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: was seen in daylight somewhere, he's probably not moved real
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: far from his bed. So now you've got something you
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: can hone in on. Um, like just that natural assumption
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: that if a buck's on his feet in the evening,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: whether it's a field edge or anywhere, Um, yeah, he
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: probably hasn't moved real far from where he's betted. So
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: now you've got somewhere to start. Yeah, I want to
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: dive just a little more into something you just mentioned
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: that being you know, you just described this example as
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: being it would work if it was outside the rut.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: But what about inside the rut? How do your views
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: on these buck beds and bedding areas? Does that just
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: go all out out the window during the rut and
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: you're just going to focus on you know, travel corridors
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: and does or do you still in the back of
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: your mind keeping keep where those buckbeds worthy you discovered
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: earlier in the year. How does all this factor in
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: in November? Yeah, in the peak of the rut, I'm
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: more so focused on the dope doe betting areas and
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: the travel corridors between those buck areas and the buck
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: pending betting points and the doe betting areas. So if
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: it's too late now for scrapes and and that primary
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: scrape hunting um, then I'm more keyed in on those
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: travel zones around dough betting areas because that's that that
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: to me, is the ticket. Um. And it can also
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: be food. You know, it depends if you're hunting private
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and you've got food plots and doughs are coming in,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: and yeah, that that becomes an easier scenario. But I
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: mean if you're hunting big woods, Um, I'm keying in
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: on doe betting areas and I've I've watched it, you
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: know where, especially in Iowa. Um, I've seen bucks just
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: sent check doe betting areas one after another after another.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: And and even if they're younger bucks, you just see that. Okay,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: that's the pattern, that's what they're doing. Um. So yeah,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: that's that's that's the tactic I shift towards. Is hunting
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the dough betting areas makes sense? Now you mentioned the
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: fact that if it's too late for primary scrapes, what's
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: the time frame that you think is right for hunting
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: those primary scrapes and for people that don't know and
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and honestly, I guess everyone kind of has a slightly
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: different definition of what they're talking about. When they mentioned
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: primary scrapes can you define for you what that looks like,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: and then what's the sweet spot when you're keying in
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: on those kinds of spots. Yeah, So the primary scrapes
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: are not those big scrapes you typically see on a
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: field edge, or you know when you see a field
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: edge littered with ten of them and there's one big
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: one there. Those aren't typically the primary scrapes. The primary
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: scrapes are are more so in thicker cover. Um. They're
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: closer to where that buck is betting or where those
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: doughs are betting, and they're more frequently checked. Um, and
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: they're they're very killable over those scrapes. And late October
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: the best generality I can give you With late October,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: it can be very early November. It can be third
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: week of October. Um, depending on what area of the
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Midwest that we're in. I'm not going to get into Canada.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I've never white tail hunted in Canada, but um yeah
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: around here. I mean, what's really keyed I've keyed in
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: on is from basically October through um November two November three.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: To give you an example of what I've learned in
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the last few years, I've hunted um a particular farm.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: And one of the things I've I've taken pride in
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: over the last twenty plus years and the deer I've
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: killed is I can't think of any of them that
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: have come out of the same tree, and most of
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: them have been on different farms because I don't own
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: farms or don't own land besides my small acreage I've
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: got behind my house. I don't on land to be
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: able to, you know, have something locked up forever. And
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I've had success on a lot of different fimers, in
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of different places, in different trees. Um, because
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I know the elements that I'm looking forward to have success.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: It's not it's not about just finding one spot and
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: then scoring every year in that spot. Um. But a
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: spot that Lee and I hunt together, um man. It's
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: what's really cool is when you do get a couple
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: of three seasons to hunt the same spot. Um. My
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: trail cameras have shown me daylight activity of bucks on
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: scrapes from probably October ish until November two, and then
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: it just almost shuts right off and you know the
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: dose have come in to heat. The bucks are locked
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: on does and they're not on the scrapes and that's
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: just the way it is there. It's uh, it's really
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: almost cut and dry. We've had really good action in
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that late October area up until about November two, and
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: then it just shuts right off and then it will
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: kick back in around November twelve. And that's uh, that's
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: that's pretty consistent to a lot of things that that
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I've seen to it's and the research bears out too.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I think that they've shown peak peak scraping activity is
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: right right in that same pocket, in that same window.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: So makes makes all the sense in the world. Um.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: You know something that just a random analogy that popped
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: in my mind as we were talking a second ago,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: when you mentioned how you have to take this scouting
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: information and then layer it with something like a trail
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: camera picture over a scrape or siting or you know,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: whatever other information you have. You can't just rely on
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: that scouted point. And you know, knowing that it's kind
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: of like layering pieces of Swiss cheese, Like you've got
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: that first layer of Swiss cheese that tells you, Okay,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I scouted this area and I saw six different points
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: that all could have a buck betting on them. That's
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: one layer but there's still holes in it, right, And
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: then you need to take another slice of Swiss cheese,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: and maybe that's your trail camera information, or maybe that's
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: glassing from a field edge and seeing where these deer
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: popping out, and that's going to give you another level
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: of information. You layer that on top and that covers
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: some of the holes, but maybe you still have a
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: couple more. So then you've got to take another slice
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: and maybe this is uh, you know, historical information. You've
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: hunted it two years prior, so you've been able to
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: deserve some things over the years. You take that and
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: if you stack enough layers like that, all of a
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: sudden you cover all the holes and you've got stuff
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: figured out. But you can't depend on any one single piece,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: or you narrow it down to the one hole that's
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: still showing, and you know that's that's it again. And yeah,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I think of it as putting a puzzle puzzle together
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: and you're getting more and more pieces, and the Swiss
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: cheese is a good one too. I mean, that's a
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: good a good picture. People can think in their head
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: of the data that you're gathering and how you're honing
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: in on what's ultimately gonna give you success because we
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: only have to do it once. You know, you don't
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: have to be right once true true, sometimes easier said
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: than done, but you get those pieces together, it's a
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: pretty nice thing. Now, what about what about this set
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: of scenarios we're talking about trying to understand betting, trying
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: to understand how these bucks are gonna, you know, relate
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: to terrain. But let's shift the area from a health
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: country scenario to a marshy, swampy kind of situation. Um.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Can you can you walk me through the habitat types
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: and features and behavior as you're seeing in that kind
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: of scenario. Yeah, So the best analogy I can give
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: you relates more to rivers and in a swamp scenario
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: around along rivers that that I'm more familiar with, um,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: because you know, when I've I don't hunt as many
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: swamps and more in Wisconsin. UM, but around me, UM,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: the typical scenarios are relating to rivers and river activity
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: and it's swampy, cattails, marsh and stuff in public areas. Um.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: What what you generally see and and I outlined this
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: in in my farm country video as well, is they
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: bed relating to the rivers UM and the air currents
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: that flow along those river systems UM. So you have
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: a prevailing wind, of course, but you also have your
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: UM here on shore offshore breezes. I'll describe them as
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: where the cooling of the air or just that settling
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: of the of the air currents UM changes you know,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: with air temperature and just in relation to the also
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: in relation to the topography. But what what we typically
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: see are are them betting on ox bows UM or
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: some sort of hump or point that the go is
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: out along the river. And and that's that's what I
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: like to target. So you know we've I've seen this
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: in Iowa, but it's it's the same in Michigan too.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: If you scout river systems UM, you typically your thickest
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: cover is right up along those rivers and you've get
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: you get cut banks to where they're those deer are
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: less approachable from the river, so they'll bed on those
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: humps or or those ox bows and they're not as
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: approachable there. You know, you've got to go through a
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: bunch of cover to get back into the oxbow or
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: if you're on the river, UM they you know, you
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: may have a high bank that they'd have to approach,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: or they can they can see you, so they'll bed
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: with that prevailing wind um coming from the field or something,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: and then you know they're facing the river. They can
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: just watch anything coming in the river or you know,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: by way of the river and escape back out through
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: the cover, or if somebody comes crashing through there, they
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: can just drop down the river, drop across the river
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and they're safe. So those those are the scenarios that UM,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I see the most and what relates to me around here. Um,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: you don't have the quite the thermal activity and and
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff because it's flatter ground. Um, but
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: you do have that those breezes that go up and
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: down the river and that you can play to your advantage,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: you know. So so that's that's the UM and that's
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: the scenario most relevant to what I'm I'm familiar with,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: what I'm experienced with. Yeah, that's interesting. Do you find
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: that they will flip flop which side of the river
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: they're betting on based on if it's you know, let's
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: say you've got a north south river and you're gonna
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: have a westerly wind more often. But then ever, once
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: when I get that east. Would you see them flip flopping,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: just like a buck might flip flop either side of
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: a ridge based on what direction the winds coming. Yeah,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to I mean, the theory of that absolutely,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: um whether I've seen that directly, I'm trying to think
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: because in most cases you don't have the exact same
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: terrain on both sides of the river. There's reasons that
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: you know, if you've got a high cut bank on
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: one side, it's not high cut on the other side,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: because that's not where the current is flowing. That's not
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: how it's bending. Will they bed further down on the
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: other side. Yeah, absolutely, I mean I don't see why
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't, um it. It also depends on it just
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: all depends on that particular farm or that land. Um,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: how it lays out, you know. So if if your
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: spot is is good for a west wind, and then
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: you've got an east wind that day, it might be
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: as simple as them bedding on the other side of
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: the river, or they may be on the other side
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: of the field, on the other side of the road,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: in a different part of that property, or on a
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: different property. So yeah, it's it's completely dependent on on
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: the elements of that particular land, but the theory in
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: the in the principle absolutely I've seen. I've seen both
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: scenarios where yeah, they just flip, they flip to the
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: other side of the ridge or to the other side
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: of the river, or they may be on a different
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: property on the other side of the road. Yeah you mentioned,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: you know how this kind of scenario river winding through
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: might might be applicable to some farmland type stuff. And
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I've always thought that the hill country bedding is something
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: that that seems pretty easy to identify in a map
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: and they go there on foot and like, oh, yeah,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: there's a bed right where they're supposed to be. And
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: you can look at a map of a swamp or
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: something and and look for high ground islands in the
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: middle of it or point extending out of it, and
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: think to yourself, how there should be a bed there,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: and you go and you take a look at Yep,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: there's a bed. But general kind of generic farm country
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: where I hunt a lot of the time in southern Michigan,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: where there's no topography, there's no hills, where sometimes there's
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: no wet lands or swamp. It's just mixed egg and
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: timber and little brush here and there, and it's that
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: sometimes is the hardest stuff, at least for me to
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: figure out, like where's the very best? Not right? How
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: do you think? I mean? I'm glad you mentioned that,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: because that's part of the reason I made that farm
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: country video, because you think about, Okay, well there's swamps
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: and then there's hill country, and then farm country is
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: kind of like, whoa, what do you mean by that?
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: And it's exactly what you just described because you see
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: elements of everything in there, and you've got in most
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: cases a lot more of a people element to it.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: So um, and and that's why I described that's kind
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: of why I did them in that order as well,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: because you've got flatter ground, let's just say, flatter ground
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: betting habits or or swamp swampland versus hill country. But
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: then farm farmland kind of incorporates a lot of things,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: and so you kind of need to be experience it's
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: in all those elements in order to recognize what's going
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: on in farmland. So um, it really just takes paying attention.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: You know, the deer will tell you where they're betting
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: if you just pay attention to where you're seeing them,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: and where the sign is at, and where your friends
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: are seeing them, or where the landowners seeing them, and
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: and not being closed minded, you know, so I'm making it.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I made an specific point in that farm Country video
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: to talk about betting near the barns um and near
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: the people, because in so many cases and so many
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: stories I've heard of of bucks that lay down right
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: behind the barn or right by you know, the farm
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: equipment or whatever. They will bet wherever they need to
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: to stay safe, and in in a lot of cases
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: it's um, it's where they can keep an eye on
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: the people. So the mistake I see a lot of
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: hunters make is that assumption that they're just in the
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: thickest cover furthest away from people, and and I usually
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: see it's the opposite. I mean, it's it's usually where
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: they can keep tabs on people. So they're especially in
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: urban settings, um, but even in the more remote farmland,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: they still tend to like to bed near the people
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: so that they can keep an eye on them. And
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: then when you know they get a little too close,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: then no, then they go bounding back into the cover
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: where they're safer. UM. But as far as UM the
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: terrain and specific elements to look for. Yeah, I can't
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: tell you anyone particular one because you'll see elements of
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: all of that. You know, you may have a swampy
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: element or a hill country element, um, but generally you
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: know they're still going to keep that wind in mind.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: You know, like my house, for example, I look out
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: at my field right now, and to the left or
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: the right, I've got um uh small hill on both sides,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: and those deer will bed you know, whether it's a
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: northwest or southwest wind, they'll be betted on that particular
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: spot in a given day because that's where the scent
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: from my house goes, so they can keep tabs on me.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: And it's yeah, it's of course it's Michigan. There's those
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: in small bucks. Um. But they have that same survival
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: instinct that they want to know where they're their threat
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: is at. And I've I've thought of it before, whether
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: you're playing paintball or um. If you were in an
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: actual like a movie where people are hunting people, the
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: last thing I would want to do is go bury
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: myself in some thick cover where I can get snuck
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: up on and not know where people are coming. From
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: or anything. I would. I would more so want to
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: stay uh in sight of of my threat, you know,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: keep tabs on where they're at so I can keep
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: moving around them. Yeah, that's that's the way I try
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: to approach it. Are there any personal examples where you
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: found something like that and figured out how to kill
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: that buck that was set up to know what you
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: were doing? Like he he thought he was ahead of
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: the game. It was setting up us about where he
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: could keep tabs on people, but you figured that out. Um,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: do you have any example kind of like that that
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: you could kind of illustrate for us or or know
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: of someone who did that. I just imagine a lot
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: of people, a lot of people are in situations like
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: that probably and don't realize it or don't know how
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: to deal with that, and it's something that probably would
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: be helpful to address. Yeah, I gotta think here, um,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: or even just you examples of just specific places you
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: found betting in this more generic farm country, just describing
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: specific examples of what those spots look like. Just it's
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: just so easy to identify the gay hill country bed
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: should be in here and you can see it, But
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: like you mentioned, it's much harder to paint that picture
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: for generic farmland. Yeah, well there's one. Um. The one
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: that first comes to mind is a property I didn't
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: never even get to hunt, but I scouted it with
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: a friend of mine that I used to hunt with
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: in Iowa, and he told me about, you know, his
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: farm over in Illinois and they had this and they
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: couldn't figure him out. Um, they didn't, you know, know
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: what he was doing or or what was going on.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: And I spent a while, but I chuckled because he
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: told me just a couple of things where they had
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: seen it. And we walked over there and within within
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: ten it might have even been five minutes, I said, well,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: here's where he's living. This is right where he's betting man.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Because we walked in off of this it was pretty exposed. Um,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: it was ffty yards within some cover, um, and we
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: were maybe a hundred yards off the road and it
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: was the last spot. He like looked. He was like,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: are you kidding me? I'm like, yeah, I mean look
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: at this. They were five size rubs and giant beds
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: in this little spot of cover that I mean, if
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: you if you got in there and just sat in
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: those beds and looked around you like, well, absolutely he's living.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: This is exactly where he's living. And then if you
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: back up from there and think, well, how would you
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: kill him? I told him this would be really challenging,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: and this is why he's living here and surviving here
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: because he can see anything from this road. And I
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: mean as soon as you pull in and park, you know,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: he knows right where you're at, you know. And so
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: that was that was mostly farmland. It was pretty flat,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: but it had hill country element to it because it
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: had some rolling topography to it where I'm like, well,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: if you want to get this buck on trail camera
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: and know whether he's in here or not, you know,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: this is how you do it, you know. So you
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: had really just a couple of main trails coming in
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: and out of the beds because it was so thick.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: So I would have backed off a little bit more
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: by this particular crick bottom. Um I would. I would
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: have loved the chance to have hunted that spot because
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: because of what I saw there, it would have been
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: very challenging. It's and it's something that you know it
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't you know. You look at that and you think
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: you found it, and okay, but that's just one piece
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: of that puzzle right now. You've got to figure out
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: when when you can get him in daylight coming back
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: in there or coming out of there with you know,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: and get in and out not being seen and stuff. So, um,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: that that that's that's the first one that comes to
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: mind that I didn't didn't get to hunt it, but um,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: it was it was completely overlooked by the guy. Um
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: he had hunted that property for for years and never
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: thought to just hundred yards from the road, this is
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: where the biggest one they'd ever seen was living. So
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: he was walking right past that area every time, right, Yeah, Yeah,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I mean that deer probably saw him every time he
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: was in and out, and they would see him on occasion.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: You know he was because when he told me that,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: well this is the side. You know, we've seen him
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: over here, and I don't know where he's coming from,
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: and said, well again back to like they're betted most
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: of the day and outside a peak of the rud,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: he's probably not moving far from where he's betted. So yeah,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: I went in there and looked around and within five minutes,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was just super obvious that that buck
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: was living there. Why don't we explore what you would
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: do next in that scenario. So so in vision, you've
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: got a property, maybe you haven't hunted before, new property,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: and or even this property. And let's say for some reason,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: instead of what ended up happening, your body said, hey,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: you know what you found where he's living, get after him.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: You can hunt him, and um yeah, um. What I'm
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: curious about is what do you do next? Like you
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: found the bedroom, I'd like to hear like your your
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: thought process on what you're gonna do next? Are you
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: gonna like how are you going to think about where
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: you would set up? When would you come in and
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: bring a stand? Would it be the day you hunt,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: or would be you know, a month beforehand? Uh? And
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: and then I want to keep on going all the
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: way through. Let's talk through that. Let's talk through the
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: day you're putting the stand up, and we'll kind of
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: flesh out an example from this starting point. Does that
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: make sense? Yeah? Um m hmm. I almost say trail
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: cameras don't make it fair anymore, especially with cell cameras.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: But you know, we all have different scenarios, whether this
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: was let's say it's Illinois or whatever, And I don't
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: live there, it's a different scenario of how I approach
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: it versus if I lived there. So if I lived there,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: I would, um, I would just be I'd start observing.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: I would literally, whether it's from a from my truck
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: with a spotting scope half mile down the road, or
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: if I had to climb a tree across the field,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: I would figure out a way to start observing that
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: spot without intruding on it. So that would be step
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: one if I'm living there locally, if I'm If I'm not,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to pepper perimeters with trail cameras and and
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I'm probably doing that anyways if I if I do
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: live there. Um, But it's all about again not educating them,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: not letting them know you're hunting them. So you're sitting
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: back and observing and and seeing if you can get
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: eyes on him, and and crops will play a big
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: factor obviously, you know. So if that field is beans
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: that year or whether it's corn that year, um, you've
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: got to figure out what he's doing. He may be
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: at a at a farm two miles over in the
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: beans all summer and then come back, or he might
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: not not not even be on the farm that year.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Because of the crop rotation. So that's all stuff you
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: have to start learning and figuring out. And it can
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: you can learn that and as quick as a conversation
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: with somebody that can tell you that because you know
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: they have a history of knowing, or it's observations or
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: or trail cameras that tell you that. But that's the
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff you need to start figuring out. Is Okay,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: he's living there, but is he living there all the time,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: or is he living there every other year or on
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: certain winds or on certain crop rotations. So those are
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: the thoughts in my head. And if if i'm let's say,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: you know, this perfect scenario exists of this buck is
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: living there all summer and it's beans, and you watch
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: him doing a certain thing, and then you know whether
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: it's September fifteen or October first, or whenever the opener
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: comes in, then yeah, it might be. You know, again,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: the perfect scenario of go in and hang a stand
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: based on a chink in his armor and you know
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: he's coming right out here, and and I can flip
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: in here along this creek bed or or something. And
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: if it's private, I'm certainly thinking about pre hanging a
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: stand in in the springtime or the early season. I'm
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: prepping a spot that you know, Okay, if it's this bed,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: then you generally don't have a bunch of options. You
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: generally have Okay, this is going to be the tree.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: It's either going to be this one or this one
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: based on this scenario. And so I might pre hang
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: a stand or at least prep it so that all
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: I've got to do is hang the stand or or
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: hang a few sticks or something. But yeah, it's every
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you know, the thing I guess. I I also pride
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: myself in as I I can't tell you that I
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: just do any one thing. I always look at the
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: elements in the given scenario, because it's like the thing
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I I know a lot of For whatever reason, I've
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: met a lot of professional fishermen in my life, and
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: I've friends with a lot of guys that fish professional
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: walleye circuits and stuff, and and you I was chuckled
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: because at the end of a tournament, the interview in
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: the winter and he says, oh, yeah, it was it
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: was pink. You know, we're trolling pink in fifteen foot
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: of water off of this, you know, and wam wam wham,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: you know, and they well, if if you just told
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: everybody else to do that, you know, then they could
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: have slammed them too. But they knew, um, they were
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: able to figure it out quicker, sooner or better than
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: anyone else on that particular weekend, that that was the
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: thing that worked. And it wasn't because they didn't know
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: how to um two jig crawlers or troll crawlers or
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: or um fish swim baits or or whatever. They know
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: all the techniques. They just have an open and enough
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: mind to take in the given conditions and then apply
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: what they think is going to work at that time.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: And that's the way I approach hunting, is whether I
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: need to pre hang a spot in the spring or
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: have a stand on my back and hunt something right
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: at the minute, Um, I just try to keep an
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: open enough mind to what I know that you know,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: the deer being so different everywhere that you just have
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: to be willing to observe what's going on and then
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: be be able to take advantage of it. Be willing
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: and able and have the knowledge of knowing when to
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: take advantage of it. Yeah, that's that kind of example
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: you laid out there. Um, speaks to something that I'm
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: constantly internally debating, which is, you know, this wall example,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: the fact that he was able to figure out that
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: specific combination more quickly than anybody else, but that probably
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: took some trial and error, like he had to try
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: something realized that wasn't just try something adjust In the
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: dear world, we we put together an idea of what
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: we think is happening based on all the different factors
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: we and then we we throw a dart at the wall.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: We think this is the tree, this is the behavior
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: where we think he's gonna do. We're gonna try this,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: but then you hunt it and it doesn't pan out.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: And the question that I'm always thinking through is this
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: fine line that we seem to have to walk between,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: you know, giving our idea time versus moving to the
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: next idea or the next Okay, No, that wasn't it.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: He must be doing this or this set of conditions
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: actually must mean this. Uh, this is a very very
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: generic question, I realized, Um, but can you like how
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: what's your mindset? How do you think through this dilemma
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: which is giving my idea time or this specific spot
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: time or another sit versus Okay, I gotta pivot, Like
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: when when do you pull the plug and say, no,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: this is wrong. I gotta adjust. Is it immediately? Do
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: you never give an idea two days or a spot
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: two days? Or is it? I realized this is so specific,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: situation specific, But I guess walk me through your thoughts
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: on this general idea. Yeah, I mean that's it's definitely
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: an answer that comes with experience, and everybody's going to
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: be a little bit different. You're you're always gonna second
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: guess yourself a little bit. But I know I second
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: guessed myself a lot less now than I did twenty
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: years ago. You know, I'd go into a spot twenty
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: years ago and I'd be like, what did I do wrong? Okay?
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Did I? Did I make too much noise? Did I?
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Was it? This? Was it? That? And I've had enough
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: success now where I know, um, I usually know, okay,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: well it wasn't because of me or because of the
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: noise I made, or this or that. I can rule
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: out certain things based on experience, so that leaves you know,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: the deer or the weather or factors out of my control. Um,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: so that I have that confidence on my side now,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: But to to what extent you're always confident that you
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: did the right thing. Now it's I mean, that just
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't exist. You're always you know, because until you do
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: have that success, you don't know for sure. Um, but
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: your experience tells you okay, um, And usually it relates
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: to time of year. Okay. So I give you an example,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: like last year, the big one I killed in Wisconsin.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: That was the second time I hunted that spot in
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: two days. It was a primary scrape scenario in this
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: old thick bedding area. It was an old orchard area
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: where there were some apple trees in there that you
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: could almost not see because there's just so much brush.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Um That I had hung a camera there a week
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: and a half prior. I went there for a weekend
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: and I scouted this new section of farm and I
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: found this primary scrape in there. I'm like, oh my gosh,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: this is just gonna light up. This should light up
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: in the next week to two weeks. And so I
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: put a camera on it. And when I showed up
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: a week and a half later, there were um two
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: different bucks I would have shot that were there in
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: daylight probably six days out of the previous ten days.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: They were there pretty regularly. At various hours of the day,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: and that's the intel you need to know that they're like, Okay,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: he's not in there every day. So if I just
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: pick this day and he doesn't show, that doesn't mean
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: I screwed something up. It means that you know, you
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: should give it another tribe, right, But you have to
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: be smart about how you're getting in and out of it.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: So in that particular scenario I hunted last year, UM,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: I had a northwest wind the first evening. I went
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: in there midday and ironically the one the other buck
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: that would I would have shot. Um. I'm trying to
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: think of it. Yeah, twenty minutes before I went in
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: there to check my camera, that buck came through there.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: It was like twelve thirty PM. And I went in
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: there at one pm to pull my camera card. And
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: I was back in there at oh, I don't know,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: like two thirty or something, and I hung a spot.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: It was so thick in there that I couldn't even
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: see the scrape that I was hunting. I was forty
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: yards down wind of it. Um, I'm looking at one
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: of the trails that was coming into it from from
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: that wind direction. So I hung the little point five stand.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: Those are awesome and super lightweight. So I flipped in
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: there and I hung that stand, and I saw like
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: eight deer that night, and one like two year old buck,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: and and uh several doughs, but not the right one.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: And they all moved on. And I even had one
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: a dull blow at me late late at night. You know,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: she got out in the field and she got circled around,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: she got down wind, and she snorted and ran off.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't to the extent that you're like, everything's educated,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: I'm out of here, um. But I knew that that
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: spot was still good, at least for the next couple
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: of days because of that scrape, you know, scrape time
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: of year. So the next morning, the wind shifted and
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: it went to southwest, and I knew that stand. I
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: left that stand up because I'm like, oh, you know,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: I'll just be right back in here tomorrow. But it
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: shifted to the southwest and I couldn't hunt that and
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: it was too thick to go in there and think
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: about looking for my new spot. Um in the in
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: the dark especially said you know what, I'm just going
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: to go to the north side of the farm and
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: hunt this other spot, and then about mid morning, I'll
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: get down and I'll i'll go prep it for the
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: southwest wind. And so I did. I went and I
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: hunted uh the north side of the farm, and I
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: watched a buck breed at dough that morning. It was
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: actually pretty cool, but it was it was just like
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: a young three year old and and so about it
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: was about nine thirty or so. I got down nine
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: thirty or ten, and it was kind of breezy that day,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: which was really helpful, but I went um, I got
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: down and I went into that spot. It was about
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: ten o'clock. It was breezy enough that I could cut
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: cut limbs and stuff and and trim stuff with it.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: You know, just lots of trees blowing around. They could
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: you know, you'd have to be within twenty thirty feet
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: of me to to hear me. So I got a
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: spot trimmed, and I left and I had to do
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: some work at the computer, and I heard to go
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: for a couple hours. So I got back into the
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: spot about one o'clock one It was one thirty. I
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: got back into the spot and I shot that buck
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: at two thirty maybe two twenty. It wasn't I haven't
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: even sat an hour and that buck came into the
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: apple tree next to the scrape. Um. It was a
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: really cool scenario. Um. And then when I checked my
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: camera later that other buck had been in in that
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: spot in the morning. Um, had I, you know, had
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: different winds, are still been able to sit at that
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: There was a buck that came in about eight thirty
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: that morning that I missed because I didn't you know,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't have the right wind and I didn't feel
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: good about um because you know, the winds are calmer
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: at first light. I just didn't want to get in
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: there and make a bunch of actor because I figured
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: they would be in there. So that was experience telling
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: me to not be you know, and I've done it
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: plenty of times where going in the dark and hanging stands,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: but that was not a scenario worth doing that. UM.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: But yeah, your original question about when do you move on?
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: When do you stick it out? Um? Some of the
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: big factors for me are my again that element of surprise.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Is my entry and exit good enough that I feel
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: I can get multiple sits or is it intrusive to
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: the point where, yeah, even though they didn't show they're
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: going to know I was in here and it's it's
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: too tough, you know, and e bikes and cell cams
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff, you know play a role now
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: and and getting extra sits or picking the exact right
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: days to do it. But um, you know, experiences is
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: the best teacher. And that's where you know, like that
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: scenario I just described, Um, I know I had to
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: win because that was November two. I shot that deer
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: on and I knew I only had that day or
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: maybe the next day before it was going to pretty
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: much dry up. And so I was gonna hunt that
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: spot like two maybe even three days in a row. Um,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: if I needed to before I did move on. And
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: then I knew that was done, and whether it was
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: me or not, it was going to be done, and
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: you know it would have to behind it later. What
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: about making adjustments based off observations. This is another one
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: where a lot of folks that talked to are kind
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: of split. There's some people that will see a buck
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: and they're going to move immediately. An hour later, they'll
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: yank down their tree standing moved to where that buck
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: moved through, or the next day or whatever. And there's
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: some people who will say, well, I want to see
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: a buck do something twice before I think it's a
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: trend and I'll move on it. Um. And of course
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: there's also you know what time of year is this
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: October one or November? Um? What's your what's your take
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: on on that? When will you move immediately? When will
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: you not move? What's your thought process there? Yeah, No,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: a good question, um, because both of those answers can
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: be right. Um. And and it is those factors again.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: So you're sitting in that tree for hours and hours
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: and you've got nothing to do but think. Right. So
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm an analytical thinker, and I'm always trying to
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, if I see a deer, why did
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: he do that? What? What was it? And I set
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: up in a spot based on hopefully an educated guess
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: of what they're gonna do, And if I see something happen,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: it's either usually confirming it or or not that I
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: was right. And so there's a scenario where Okay, I
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: think they're betted here, and yet the first deer I
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: see is down here, and I'm like, oh, shot, I
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: was wrong. Um, you know they're betted over there, And
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: that's you know, I knew it was one of the
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: two and it's over here. You know, now I know
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: where to to move to right or you know that well,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: there's multiple deer in the area, and I know there's
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: probably gonna be deer over here as well, so you
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: don't react, you know extreme, you know, just by one side.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: But um, if there's a so one where I might
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: jump on is if I see a hot dough and
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: she's you know, passed through a certain spot or you know,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: gone back and forth along you know, a spot of
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: cover a couple three times, and I've seen two smaller
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: bucks do the same exact thing in a in a
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: you know, on her trail. It depends where I'm at
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: because I don't I don't necessarily agree that, you know,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: the big Buck's going to do the same thing that
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: the little bucks did, right. I may be on in
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: thicker cover set up for that big buck. But there
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: are scenarios like Peak rud or something where you get
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: a hot dough and she's gone through and you just
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: know that this is where the big one is going
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: to come through. Then that's a scenario where dropped down
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: and within twenty minutes you can be over there and
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: be ready when when that happens, that makes sense. No,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: the next step in playing this example out now is
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: you yank your stand down and now you're gonna go
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: and move it to a new spot. So what I'd
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: be really interested in hearing about is is your thought
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: process when you're standing in this the general zone and
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: you're trying to make the decision of which tree. Like,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: in my mind, this is like an art form, trying
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: to balance all the different factors when you're trying to pick.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: I mean sometimes easy, Sometimes it's like there's only one
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: tree that's gonna work, But then lots of other times
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: there as well. I want to be within range of
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: this spot I think they're gonna come through. Are these
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: two spots that might come through? And then I also
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: got to think about wind, And then I also need
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: to find a tree that I can stay hidden in UM.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: But very rarely do you get the perfect tree for
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: all three of those. You have to kind of weigh
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: each one and figure out what's more important in this
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: scenario or that UM, and maybe there's other things you're
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: thinking about. Two, what's what's your thought process in that moment?
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: What are the what's the check list you're going through?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: And all the different details you're considering to pick the
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: perfect spot within the spot. Yeah, that's that is I mean,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: that's the stuff you run through your mind when you're
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: standing there on the ground and you're looking around. Um,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: for me, the number one scenario is where do I
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: think that buck's gonna come through? Where? You know? And
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: where are the alternate scenarios and where's my best chance
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: to stay undetected and and kill that buck? You know. Um,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: the tree really doesn't factor into me until the very
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: end because I almost try to eliminate all the trees
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: and try not to look at the trees until I've decided, Okay,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: where where do I need to be? And once you
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: decide where you need to be, then you find the
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: nearest tree that works, and then you start looking at
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: the trees. So that's that's my thought process. I really
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: don't try to look at the trees at all until
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: I figure out, Okay, well here's the trail, this is
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: the other trail, this is what the wind is doing.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: So if I had any choice in the world and
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: where to put a tree, where would it be? And
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: then I then I base my decision on that um
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: because and this goes back to equipment now, I mean,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: whether it's the point five or guys that are saddle
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: hunters or sticks or whatever you're using. My setup lets
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: me get into basically almost any tree I want to,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: or I go back to the truck and pick my
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: other setup that that does let me, you know, but
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: I try to make sure my equipment isn't a limiting factor,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: and then I can get into about any set up.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: Some of them may require more trimming than others, and
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: so that's a factor. And I'm like, well, gosh, man,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: I could get here, but it's quiet today, and I
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: know that the deer bedded close and I really can't
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: cut the crap out of stuff, you know, So that
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: can become a factor. But yeah, I'm mean it's it's
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: usually the last factor. I'm figuring where where do I
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: have to be, and then then I decided, you know,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: how to how to make it happen? So, um, you
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: know it could be I was, I was. I wounded
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: this one. This was one of the few I probably
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: myself and not wounding them. But about fifteen years ago
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: I wounded a big one. I was in a tree. Um,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: I mean it was like a six inch popal tree
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: on the tip of a point that but I had
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: observed these deer going through the end of this point
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: the previous evening and there was a big one in
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: that area and I sat there. It was like fifteen
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: degrees at night, and I sat there in this tree,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: not moving a muscle for like two and a half hours,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: just you know, totally sticking out. But I knew it
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: was probably gonna be last light when it happened anyway,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: so I had a better chance. Um, but I caught
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: a deflection on a on a limb when it when
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: I did get a shot, and that it didn't work
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: out that time. But um, I just I try to
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: not let you know I hunt the deer, not the tree.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: That's what I said. You know, just don't be hunting
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: trees when you're out in the woods. You know, hunt
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: the deer and the sign and then figure out where
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: you need to be. Under had said something to me like, man,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: this is like twenty years ago. UM about his His
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: example was, you know, you look at a deer if
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: you if you're lucky enough to watch a mature buck
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: on his feet for any amount of time, UM, think
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: about how many trees that deer walks by that you
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: could have killed him from right. And if you had
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: just known right, if you had an hour glad crystal ball,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: and you could say, well, you know this buck's going
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: to come out here and walk along here and go
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: back over here. There's there's a ton of trees you
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: could kill him from. Um, But we don't have that
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: crystal ball. And and so to me, it's a little
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: bit less about the perfect tree, but it's about the
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: um what gives you your best chance, you know too,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: to have that scenario work out. You know, Okay, here's
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: here's the wind. That's good for me, that's good for
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: the deer. This is where I need to be. Um.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, it might mean that I'm in a
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: skinning or tree that I want to be, or I'm
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: on the back side of it in a saddle, or
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: I'm in a climber thirty feet up, or I'm I'm
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: just in my sticks and lightweight stand and and uh,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: it's is usually the case, you know. So so it
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: sounds like you're you're always going to prioritize the location,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: the best location over the best cover, right, Um, yeah,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: not necessarily always, because like I guess, the exception to
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: that too, is how much time you have, UM, how
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: intrusive that spot is or how aggressive it is. If
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: you like, I gotta get this done, and if I
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: go in here, it's a one and done situation. You
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: know I've I've stunk it all up and this is
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: it versus UM more conservative approach, and you're like, you know,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: I might get a shot here or I might just
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: be observing tonight, but I'm not very intrusive, so I'm
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: gonna see what's going on. So you've got those scenarios too. Okay,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: what about that situation and you you you dropped a
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: couple of examples in there, but maybe you can expand
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: on this. In this scenario where you know you've got
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: the perfect location, but it's a crap tree, it's a
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: six inch poplar or whatever with almost no branches or
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: something like that, what are the things you do to
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: make that work still for you? So the things you
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: the things you do is is you just number one,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: you mentally prepare yourself for being ready. Um, you generally
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: have Okay, if if it's that type of scenario, you
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: know that I can't get away with excess movement. I
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: have to be ready and whether that means holding your
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: bow the whole time or having it on a hangar
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: right in front of your face where you just minimize
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: absolutely every movement. It might mean standing the whole time
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: instead of sitting. Um, but it it's something to that
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: extent that you know, Okay, this is what I sacrificed.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: I'm giving up this in order to have this. And
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: so if that's the tree, and it means you're really exposed,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: it means you have to minimize your movement. Um. So
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: the only way to get get the job done is
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: and you tell yourself, okay, well it's it's raining, I'm
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: not going to hear him coming, or it's windy, I'm
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: not gonna hear him coming. Um, they could be right there.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: You give yourself. You know, it's like I always call
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: that pre pitching your outfielders when we're in baseball. You know,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: you're a base runner and you've got to see where
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: the defense is playing to know whether you can go
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: to third on a base hit to such and such spot.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: You know you're getting your tree stand and I pre
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: pitch my my dear, you know, I'm I'm analyzing, Okay,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: if he comes from here, this is what I have
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: to do if he comes from here, This is what
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: I have to do. And you figure out your worst
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: case scenario. It's like, all right, if there's one over here,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: how can I get my bow and get turned around
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: and stuff? So you you you prepare yourself for that
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: worst scenario and sit or stand or set up to
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: accommodate that. And and that's how you can close the
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: deal on more dear um. But too many guys, And
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: this was what drives me nuts. I mean, guys are
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: ranging deer right before they shoot him, and I just
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: don't get that. You know, we've got range finders, and
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: we've got brains to remember things. You should be you know,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: ranging things ahead of time and then just sit there
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: and repeat it to yourself in the tree. You know,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: that's thirty yards, that's thirty five, that's you know, normally
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: I have three or four yardages that I keep repeating
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: to myself. Okay, I know that one's one, I know
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: that one's thirty. I know that's twenty two. And that's
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: all you need to know, you know, because if you
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: can't do the math in between those, then you're struggling.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: So that's the kind of stuff that you mentally prepare
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: yourself for and that you do while you're in a tree,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: um to help you close the deal. Yeah, that's a
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: great point. You know. Another part of this whole scenario
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: of of of picking the spot and finding the tree
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: and getting set up all that kind of stuff is
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: of course factoring wind. You mentioned that as being one
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: of the first things going to think about, but I
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: also know that you think about wind not in the
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: obvious way all the time, which is just making sure
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: that deer won't smell me, but also thinking about how
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: deer will use the wind, and then trying to find
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: up an off wind angle or somewhere where you both
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: kind of feel like you're in in an advantageous position. Um.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: And this is this concept is something that a lot
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: of great deer hunters talk about. It's also a concept
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: that I think a lot of new to average hunters
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: have a hard time putting into action. It's it's one
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: thing to hear, it's a harder thing to figure out
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: how to pull it off. Um. And I've even had
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: struggles sometimes with it in like high deer density areas
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: where you know you might be able to play it
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: on the buck, but if there's twenty does that can
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: come through from every different direction in the world, and
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: they start spooking your nights. Done to um, So I'm
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: just kind of curious if you can speak to how
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: you think about finding those situations and and then maybe
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: there's an example you can share to kind of illustrate
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: how to take this idea that makes a lot of sense,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: but it's often a lot harder to execute on. Yeah,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: I mean to me, it's it's um, it's just getting
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: over that initial hump of learning what the heck people
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: mean when they say play the wind, and there was
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: bad information given for years about that, because playing the
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: wind does not just mean walking into the wind. Um,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: it might mean that, but it doesn't just mean that.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: It means, you know, hunting to the point where the
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: deer don't detect you, you know, before you shoot him, right,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: so and using the wind to that advantage. And so
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: you've got to not just think about what wind is
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: good for you, but what wind is good for the deer,
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: because if the wind is bad for the deer, they're
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: not going to do what you want them to. And
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: if if if you can think through a scenario, is
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: if you're not there Okay, if this buck is bettered
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: where I think he is, what is he probably going
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: to do based on this wind? Okay? And then where
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: could I be sitting that he would still do that
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: and not hecked me? You know. And and so when
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: you especially you know, nowadays with ONYX and and the
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: aerial stuff we've got access to, um, you can just
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: literally scrub your finger or draw lines and and and
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: figured out pretty quickly. But the problem a lot of
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: guys have is is they said, well, okay, I you know,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: I've got a I've got a west wind tonight. That
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: means I can I can hunt over here and they
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: won't smell me. Okay, but will they be there in
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: a west wind? And if the answer is yes, then
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: then you're good. But if it's not, then you've got
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: to rethink your strategy. So for me, it's, um, yeah,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: it's it's it becomes pretty obvious, you know, when you
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: and you said, okay, well, especially in hill country for example,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: all right, we've got let's say we've got a northwest
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: running ridge and you've got a um, a north south
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: running ridge, I should say. And let's say you've got
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: a west wind. So people say, well, I'm gonna hunt
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: my h east side of the property because that's ah,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: you know, that's gonna be down wind. Well, what happens
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: when the deer, you know, they're bedded on the east
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: side of that slope because you know they got a
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: west wind that day, And what happens when they want
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: to head west, you know, into the wind, out to
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: the farm field or the food plot or whatever it does,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: you know, good to be east of them. So that's
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: where you look at terrain and natural um differences with
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: thermals um and cover and obstacles like blowdowns and stuff.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: And you're scouting will show you that. It's like, okay, um,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: how can I still sit on west of that deer
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: with the west wind without being able you know, him
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: to be able to detect me? So you know, and
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: it's and it's obvious. Well, yeah, you know you're not
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: gonna sit directly up wind of him where he's betted,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: maybe north or south of him. Right. Well, now you're
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: scouting is is you're you're asking yourself, okay, well, what's
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: going to make him go north a little bit or
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: south a little bit. Sometimes it's a little bit of
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: a shift in the contour of the land, you know,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: where that ridge turns just a little bit before it
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: goes out to the field. And sometimes it's a blowdown
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: or a thicket or something that they want they walk
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: on the edge of that gives you that little bit
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: of advantage. And so those are the things you're looking for.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: So I like an example of that would be um. Oh,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: I shot a big, big eight point down in Ohio
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: in late January a couple of years ago. It was
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: January I shot it, and that was a spot EYED
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: hunted two times prior to that. So you're thinking, generally
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: you don't hunt the same spot, you know, late season
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: like that. But I was. I was getting in and out.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: We had snow and I was getting in and out. Um.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: It was lower deer density too, so I wasn't spooking him.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: But I went in um and scouted in the snow
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is these deer
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: coming right up this ridge, um out of this valley.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: And I had what was it. I had a southwest wind,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: west southwest wind that night, and so they were mostly
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: coming into that wind with with it mostly in their
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: face but not totally. And so by getting a little
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: bit further east, just you know thirty yards um, you know,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: had that deer and and it almost it was really borderline.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: But that buck came out of the valley that night,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: like just twenty minutes before dark. I see him down
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: in the valley and he's working his way up, but
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: he's working his way towards the east to kind of
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: start trying to smell what's coming down the ridge from
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: the thermals and stuff. But it was just off enough
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: that he didn't go far enough east to smell me.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: And he started coming up that ridge and so he
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: had to win mostly in his face. And and I
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: had that just that cross wind enough that it was
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: it wasn't going down to him, it was going a
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: little bit to his right, and it was you know,
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: one of those perfect winds where you got about a
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: six mile an hour wind where it's steady enough to
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: to not deflect and not so calm that your scent
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: is pooling. But that's the kind of scenarios that that
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: are those are killing scenarios, Yam. I shot the one
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: that we had on the Addictions episode years ago, that
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: in that little water puddle that I put in the
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: Whole Country video, and that was another perfect example of
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: um kind of think. So that was a southwest wind,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: and it was more of a south southwest wind, and
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: that buck would bed in there on anywhere from the
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: west to south wind. And but I was I was
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: far enough west of him that my wind was going
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: to his north. And so he you know, he had
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: to um walk the contour that point a little bit
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: to swing a little bit south of me before he
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: started going west. And you know, by the time he
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: got to me, I'm um again, like my wind is
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: quartering towards him, you know where if he'd kept coming
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: and walked past that water hole, you know, he'd he'd
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: have winded me. So those are the scenarios you look
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: at too as well. Okay, he's eventually going to cross
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: my wind, but I need to build to kill him
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: before he does that. And and that's what you're looking
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: forward to. So and so, you know, they don't always
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: smell you, or they don't always bull you know, typically
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: they will, you know, if if they get any kind
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: of whiff. But um, do you ever sorry, I was
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: gonna ask, do you do you ever get more conservative
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: than what you're describing When you're in a high deer
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: density area. I'm just thinking about, Like some of the
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: southern Michigan places that I'm assuming you hunt are kind
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: of similar to mine, where there's so many deer. Sometimes
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: I find myself debating, do I do what you're describing
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: and play that buck perfectly? Or do I do I
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: think about the risk of the fact that there's so
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: many damn does they're gonna be coming through here that
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: there's no way I'll get away with it. But if
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: I back off another twenty yards or something, I won't
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: be perfectly on that buck, but at least I won't
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: have fourteen Does that win me over the next two hours?
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: And then if that buck comes through you do okay? Yeah, absolutely,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: especially if it's my home area, you know, where I
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: know I have more seits. Um So. Again, it's like
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: those hundred different criteria that you run through your mind
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: all come into play in making that final decision of
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: where I'm going to sit and how how many times
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: I'm going to sit there and when I'm going to
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: sit there. Um So, Yeah, I mean, that's that's certainly
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: a factor. I'll give you an example, is that that
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: great big seven point I killed a couple of years ago.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: Um I sat a more conservative spot on that farm
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: because Lee already had a stand hung there. We already
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: had a spot prepped and hung, and it was further
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: off of the corner of the field than then you
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: that you would typically sit if you were going to
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: be aggressive. But it allows us to get in and
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: out of there a lot easier. And especially and this
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: was third week in November, getting to be into the
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: third week in November, so the foliage is down, and
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: you can't just be up on a ridge point, you know,
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: cutting and and set things up and being super noisy
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: and in that in that scenario, given where I figured
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: they were betting, and um, so I sat off of
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: it in that stand. Um And yeah, I mean those
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: are ones where you're you're hoping to see something, you're
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: hoping that um, you know, because they don't they don't
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: always just come out to the corner of the field
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: and then just turn around and leave. You know, they're
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: probably going to come out and walk somewhere. So and
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: it's the rut, you know. That was that was more
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: of a later back back part of the rut. But yeah,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: he came out there after a couple of dolls came
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: out into that field, and then he came out about
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: ten minutes later, and he had it right over to
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: where the dolls went. But then the dough ended up
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: coming right over in front of me at last light,
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: and then he followed her, and so that that worked out,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: you know. And that's that's why you do that, because
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: I had another day, I didn't didn't have to throw
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: all my chip sin right then. Um. So yeah, it's
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: always it's always a factor like that. And usually I
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: saved my most aggressive moves for when I really either
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: I'm on a time crunch and like I got one
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: day left, you know, why not? Or um, I've um,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: I've got things figured out. I know. Okay, Well I
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: saw him do this. He went in here this morning
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: and he betted, and this is what the winds doing.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: He's he's gonna becoming out of there one of these
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: two places or something. You know. Those are those are
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: scenarios where you get aggressive and and make a move. Yeah.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: I love, I love how deep you can get with
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: this stuff and these this I just I geek out
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: over it so hard. Um. Yeah, I tend too too.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: It's uh, the analytical side of me and the tech
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: side of me that just loves to study the different scenarios.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: You know, some guys are a lot more primitive in
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: their thoughts and reactions to to the way they pursue it,
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: and they do well. Um, and I like studying it. Um.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: This is like I said, it's that chess game or
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: that puzzle puzzle you're trying to put together. It's a
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: lot of fun. Um. Well, I I feel like there's
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: a million things more we could get into, but I
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: don't want to take your entire day, so we should
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: probably wrap it up. Um. One last kind of question,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: slash thought. I know that you've spent a lot of
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: time over recent years, you know, balancing your own hunting
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: time with a family and taking your son out hunting,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: and and also still trying to spend some time yourself.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: It's something that I'm starting to deal with. I've got
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: a three year old and a one year old, so
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: that's constantly more and more on my mind. I'm just
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: kind of curious what your what your advice might be
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: for folks that there's many many other folks in similar
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: situations to this, with children with families, trying to balance
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: our obsession with white tails and all this while also
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: trying to meet all of our other obligations. Um, any
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: thoughts on how you've been able to manage that and
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: or how you've been able to become more efficient with
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: your hunting to still reach your goals. Have a good time,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: but but have you know time for everything else too? Yeah,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: that's a good question, Mark. I'm glad to bring that up,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: because first of all, I would say, UM, make sure
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: you prioritize your family. You know, they're the most important
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: thing in your life there should be, and and without
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: them you have nothing. You know, you can have all
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: the deer heads on the on the wall in the world,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: and I just think you have nothing if you don't
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: have your loved ones around you, in a family that
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: loves you and supports you, and and so that needs
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: to be priority one. I mean I don't think, um
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: that's a that's a long rabbit hole to get down.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: But you know, people lose friendship, some marriages over deer
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: and it's just not worth it. Um. So I really
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: think people need to prioritize their their family. For me,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: that I mean, the good scenario UM I attribute success
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: to is is, Yeah, there's there's a learning curve to
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: do in this stuff, and you need that experience. Some
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: guys get into hunting um later in life and they
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: don't have, you know, their childhood of just exploring in
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: the woods. To draw back on me, I mean, I
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: was in the woods with baby guns and bone arrows
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: and stuff since I was four, and I have a
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: lifetime of experiences in the woods to draw on. And
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: I do think you know, when you're young enough that
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: you don't have a family, and if it is eating
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: you up and you want to do it all the time,
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: then do it. Um. That's a great time of your
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: life and your teens and twenties to to figure things
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: out and to learn. And if it's not not something
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: you want to keep doing, that's fine. But if if
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: you do love it, you're going to gain a lot
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: of experience and memories, um to draw back on when
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: you're older and you don't have as much time like me.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: And so nowadays I can I can be confident that, UM,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: I can sit in my my computer and we're at
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: my kids soccer games and be just monitoring the weather. UM.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'm monitoring trail cameras or um talking to people,
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: but I'm watching weather forecasts and I know and this
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: is a big reason I'm self employed, because I wanted
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: that flexibility in my life to be able to do that. UM.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: So if I hunt less, it's going to be quality hunts. UM.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: But you can be doing other things and still have
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: that in the back of your mind, because I mean,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: my wife will tell you, I always have deer on
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: my phone. I'm doing something related to deer and um
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: figuring out what my next move is. And so I
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: think last year, I never I never picked up a
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: bow in Michigan. I just took my son out. If
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: I took anybody out. Um. But I still keep tabs
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: on things, and I try to run cameras and I
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: go watch certain spots or I walks, you know, certain spots,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: and something appeals to me or something catches my eye.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: Then then I can shift gears really quickly. UM. But
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: you know, my my mode these days tends to be
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: saving my my hunting time for my kids locally. And
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: then I saved some you know, my quality hunts myself,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: um in Wisconsin or or somewhere else. You know, typically
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: I'll do other hunts. Like last year, I drew some
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: good tags and I killed a big elk and a
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: nice meal deer and um, so I enjoy the other
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: stuff too, but um, yeah, I think that balance comes
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: from experience of having really been into it when I
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: was younger, and I can draw on uh, and I'm
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: I'm a lot more comfortable not having to to grind
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: it out every day, all day, everyday type of things. So, um,
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: you start to see the um the sense and in
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: not making certain moves anymore and just saving you're you know,
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: saving your um the quality time for when we really
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: need it to to happen. Yeah, yeah, that makes a
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: lot of sense, Jared. And this has been great. I've
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: really I've really enjoyed it. I knew I would, and uh,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: you haven't let me down. Appreciate that for for people
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: that want more of of of this kind of insight,
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: do you want to tell folks where they can watch
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: your your white tele addictions episodes or by your DVDs
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: anything else like that? Yeah? So, Lee and I still
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: run Next Buck Outdoors, which is what we um changed
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: Blood Brothers out Wars two years ago. And I honestly
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: don't do a lot actively on social media and stuff. Um,
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: it's just it's there's just not time in my life
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: to to do a lot of that. I don't. I
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: don't really have plans imminently of making other videos other
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: than I'll still contribute to the addiction stuff that I
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: that I like to do be a part of with
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: Andre and them. Um. But next Buck Outdoors is where
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: you can get any of my videos like that and
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: just drop me a line if you have questions or
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: or on some insight on something. I'm happy to help guys. Um.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's you know, that's a that's a means
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: of getting a hold of me there, perfect all right, Well,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: I highly recommend those Those videos have been super helpful
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: to me and many other people. So for anyone listening,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: if you haven't picked up those DVDs yet, you should,
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: even if it means you need to buy a DVD
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: player because of people don't have those anymore. Convert them
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: to online only and just haven't had time. But I
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: bet if you ever had the time, Jared those things
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: a virtual past to those would sell like hotcakes. They
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: really would. Yeah maybe maybe, So we'll have to come
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: back on plug that if I if I convert those
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: you ever, if you ever do, let me know, I'd
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: happily happily spread the word. All right, Jerry, Well, thank you.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: This has been a lot of fun and hoping do
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: it again. Yeah, thanks part all right, and that's it.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. I'll plug once again. The new
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: wire Hunt website, where you can find all our new podcasts,
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: all the new articles from our team, and our new
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: video series. Go to the meat eater dot com slash wired.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: Check it out. There lots to read, lots to watch,
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: lots to listen to. Deer Season is gonna be here
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: before you know it, so make sure you're prepping those stands,
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: shooting that bow, learning everything you can, and getting ready
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: because opening day it's just drong core. So thank you
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: and stay wired to Hunt.