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Don't Worry Darling with Payton McCarty-Simas · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have.
• 0:04
  Speaker 3: Women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn bast
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: start changing with the Bechdelcast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 4: Welcome to the podcast that feels like a podcast where
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: we discuss movies that feel like movies.
• 0:21
  Speaker 5: Because they are movies and sometimes it's not that complicated. No,
• 0:27
  Speaker 5: my name is Caitlindante, my name is Jamie Loftus, and
• 0:31
  Speaker 5: we are the podcasters who feel like podcasters because we
• 0:34
  Speaker 5: are podcasters. Yes, this is the Bechdel Cast podcast where
• 0:38
  Speaker 5: we take a look at your favorite movies or just movies.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Uh, using it like using an intersectional feminist lens, using
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: But Caitlyn, what the hell is that? I don't remember
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: because I'm being trapped by an incell.
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: Oh no, well, it's a media metric created by our
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: best friend Alison Bechdel, first appearing in her comic Dikes
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: to Watch Out For in the eighties. It has since
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: become a media metric that is used to determine do
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: women interact in a movie? And if so, do they
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: talk to each other about something other than a man?
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: Our version is, do two characters of a marginalized gender
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: have names speak to each other? And is the conversation
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: about something other than a man? Ideally it is narratively
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: meaningful dialogue and not just throw away nonsense. This movie
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: doesn't really have a problem with the Bechdel test.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: It just has a problem with a.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: Lot of other stuff.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about this movie. Yes, this
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: was a movie that when it came out, it's don't worry, darling,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: We're not trying to withhold this information.
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no big twist at the end.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: End, no big twist that the director. Upon revisiting the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: press cycle, the director spoilers the movie in almost every interview,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: which is wild. She's like, yeah, ye, so I based
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Chris Pine's character on Jordan Peterson. Like you really should
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: not have said that. That's like that ruins it. Anyways.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I don't even remember what I was saying, because it
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: just this movie is so silly. Oh oh, this is
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: a movie that we got a ton of requests for
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: when it came out, and we've been trying to for
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the most part not cover movies right when they come out,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: because it's hard to have any sort of objectivity, especially
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: when a movie was as discussed to death as this
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: one was. Oh yes, but it feels like it's been
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: enough time. And also we have an incredible guest, so
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: let's get them in here.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: They are an author, programmer, and film critic and their
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: new book That Very Witch, Fear, Feminism and the American
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: Witch Film is something that you should get and read.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I'm halfway through it. It's terrific.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: It's Peyton McCarty, Semas welcome, Hi.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: about this real go to the theater movie.
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. We come to this place for movies
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: that feel like movies, come to.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: This place for discourse.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: So first of all, tell us about your book.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, please, absolutely so. Basically, this book traces the evolution
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: of the witch in horror films as a vector for
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: the state of feminism at any given point in time
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: in history in America specifically. So as I go through,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: basically what I do is I give you a little
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: bit of a history and the politics of the moment,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: a little bit of the history of the feminism of
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: the moment, the history of the cinema of the period,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: and then I tile of that together through the witch
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: films of that particular era. And what I figured out
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: was that, well, you know, witches have always been a
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: symbol of feminism, but at peak feminist activism in America
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: at these moments like the sixties and the twenty tens,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: whiches in the horror film are depicted as super powerful,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: which is, you know, intuitive in a certain sense, but
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: how they're depicted as powerful changes and can tell you
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: a lot about what's going on, and in moments of
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: something else very interesting occurs.
• 4:03
  Speaker 6: So I researched this book for a little over half
• 4:08
  Speaker 6: a decade and it was basically my therapy for where
• 4:12
  Speaker 6: we are when the election happened.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't really have to change anything. I emailed my
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: editor and was like, I'm going to add two sentences
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and then we're ready to go. So it definitely helped
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: me figure out how we got here. But it's also
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I hope it's a fun time, you know, so gosh, so.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can confirm it absolutely rocks. Thank you for writing it,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: And it looks also just like I don't know. I
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: was like, that must have been such a fun book
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: to research.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, it was such a blast because you
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: get to you know, it's like the arc of American history, right,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: So I got to spend a lot of time like
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: rocking out in the sixties and learning about acid and
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the CIA, and then you know, you go to the
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: eighties and you're thinking about like punk subcultures and yuppies
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: and the nineties. You've got right, girl. It was. Yeah,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: it was a complete blast. That rocks amazing.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Thanks, we come to this place to discuss the movie.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Don't worry, darling, So follow up question, different question. What
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: is your history with this movie? I know it's pretty recent,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: but no.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when we were talking about what films to discuss today,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I saw that was an option, and I was so
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: excited because this movie made me so just flamingly livid
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: when it came out, Like I was all there, I
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: was all in right, like I love I just wrote
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: a piece. This is gonna I promise this will make sense.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: But I just wrote a piece for Remorgue this year
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: called wah It's all connected, about a fake genre that
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: I made up of, like particularly conspiratorial kind of New
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: agey movies typically about men right, and like, whenever I
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: see a woman making like a seventies inspired parallax view
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: type movie, I'm there. I'm like, let let us do Grolboa,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: you know. But then watching it, it's so failed in
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: its politics, it so boggles the mind, and it has
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: so many script problems, like it's it's failed top to bottom.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: So I was so pissed and I was excited to
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: just take it down. But rewatching it from twenty twenty five,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: it really felt like more in sorrow than an anger,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Like there's so much here that speaks to the moment
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: that had the potential to be really salient. And I
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: think even some of the angles that frustrated me the
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: first time, I actually found like some potential poignancy in,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: particularly in the wake of the Charlie Kirk things. So
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I think there's so much to unpack here. I'm still pissed.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I am still pissed, but it's like it's like pissed
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: because I'm disappointed, you know, I'm angry and disappointed.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: Fair.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's it is so funny for a movie
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: that is like, ultimately I also am like, let women
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: make b movies like, but I feel like it was
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: hard to not have a very particular relationship with this movie.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: If you were remotely plugged into pop culture at the time,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: you could not escape it. And it was interesting even
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: just three years later because of the rate that society
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: is deteriorating. I guess that you're like, the criticisms I
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: had three years ago are some, some remain consistent, but
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: there's also yeah, like you're saying peyton things I feel
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: a little gentler on now, and then things that I'm
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: even madder about then when I saw it the first time.
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: It's interesting, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie?
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I saw it. I saw it in theaters and I
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: was like, well, I did not like that at all.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: But but I mean I do think, like, I don't know.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I think that the more recent example of this that
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: is far darker is this is a movie who, I
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: think for most people who are like keeping eyes on
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: it at the time, like has a more famous press
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: cycle than a plot. The press cycle for this movie
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: was absolutely inescapable in a way that it seems like
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: only helped the movie's box office a little bit. I
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: think the darker version of that was last year, two
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: years ago, with the the like Blake Lively justin Baldonia
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: of it all with it ends with us. Yeah, and
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: then you have pre cycles like Wicked where nothing went wrong,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: but you're like, what the fuck happened? And that's just fun.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: So I was like, I think I was gonna see
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: this movie either way because I enjoyed BookSmart. It was
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: a fun little movie. It was nice to have a
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: whatever rising comedy director who is a woman, which is
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: something that still is pretty rare. And yeah, this movie
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: really just like does not come together in ways that
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: are infuriating sometimes and like funny. It's just like this
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: movie's like very naive in a lot of ways, like
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: if someone explained white feminism to an alien, which could
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: have been what happened? Who knows? Yeah, Yeah, I've basically
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: my definitive statement here is that the second, like there's
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: a one of many profiles of Olivia Wilde around the
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: time this movie came out was her saying explicitly the
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: inspiration for this movie is the feminine mystique, which makes
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: so much sense because the feminine mystique is a valuable,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: famous text that only concerns itself with the white middle class,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: which is very much what this movie is, and it
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: feels kind of like a semi like not really a
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: coherent criticism that also feels both early and late. It's weird.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: This movie's a weird one. That's what my That's what
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I have to say. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't see it in theaters. I saw it maybe
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: like six months after it had come and gone from
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: its theatrical release, and by that point I had heard
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: all of the all the reviews that were not favorable
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: of this movie and all the people just being.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: Like that sucked so bad, that was trash and blah
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: blah blah. So I went in thinking it was going
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: to be like incoherent drivel, which I don't think that's
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: the case obviously. I think that it has a lot
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: of problems and it falls short in the commentary it's
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: trying to make. But I was expecting some like really
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: incompetent filmmaking, and I was like, oh, it's you know,
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: it's basically the plot of the Stepford Wives, but you know,
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: it's it's not horrendous. But I also wasn't watching it
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: specifically through a Bechdel cast lens that first time, and
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: now rewatching it which I was like, oh god, do
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: I have to for this episode? I noticed many many
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: more of the problems and I'm excited to discuss. So
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: for the recap.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: And we are back, shall we shall We get into
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the plot and Peyton feel free to jump in whenever
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: if you have a pressing thought, which this movie is
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: so many. I have so many intrusive thoughts about this movie.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: And I was like re remembering the Harry styles memes
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: of his acting, which isn't as bad as people said,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: but it's not good.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: Okay that too. Everyone was like he did gives the
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: worst performance ever. And I was just like, it was.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Fine, he gives he gives up performance.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, he's trying his best.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: It feels like he's I know. I was like, am
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I coddling him?
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, which, like you know, girl Boss Sleigh, you can
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: anyone can put their younger attractive bow in the movie,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: you know, like the ingenoeu of it all was really good.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I was. It was kind of funny where I was like,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: okay for Olivia Wild to some extent, she's like girl
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: bossing Osha violations. She's like women should violate HR contracts
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, yeah, exactly. I also forgot about
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: do you guys remember the spit thing. I just was like,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, having all of these like things that I
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: thought I would never have to think about again, And
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: here we are talking about Spitgate in the year twenty
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: twenty five.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Here we are just I'm so convinced that, like that
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: was a glitch in the matrix, like we're all living in.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Don't worry, darling, because that was the media simulacrum that broke,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: and like that's just every day in this universe now,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Like you can just ai that actually having happened if
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: you want to.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: But like, oh man, there's so many funny parts. Harry
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Styles looking ugly is hilarious. Like it's just it's it's great.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: It's great that wig. It's camp This movie is I
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: feel like we will We just covered a movie neither
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: of us had seen before yesterday, The Devil's Advocate, which
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I feel like has a lot of similarities plot wise
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and also how campy it is because it's so deeply
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: sincere in what it's trying to do. This movie is
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: really trying to define feminist thriller and it doesn't, and
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: that's kind of why I feel a little like, oh
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I don't hate it.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: This could have been a cult classic if it were
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: any better or worse, Like I kept thinking about Zaradas,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, if it weren't mostly
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: medium close ups, and if the mcguffins were either a
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: little bit weirder or a little bit better explained, we
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: could all like cherish, don't worried? Are they?
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Like really go for it, like we need girl
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: ed Wood?
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Come on, yes, yes.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: Okay, here's the story. It is the nineteen fifties or
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: easy Tavy we think it is at first, and we
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: meet a young married couple Alice and Jack played by
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: Florence Pugh and Harry Styles as well as they're friends
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: and neighbors who are other married couples Bunny and Dean.
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: That's Olivia Wilde and Nick Kroll. And then there's Peter
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: and Peg played by comedian pals of ours Asif Ali
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: and Cap Perland. And they all live in a cul
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: de sac. I was calling them the cul de Sac
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: Crew to borrow a cougar Town reference.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Really, wow, I got to watch Cougartown.
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I watched it. I would say against my will,
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: but kind of like it's almost like I was put
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: in a simulation against my will to watch Cougar Town.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: So true anyway, So they live in what appears to
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: be a typical American suburb at first, but then we
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: realize it's this small isolated community called Victory in the
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: middle of a desert, and all of the husbands work
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: for something called the Victory Project, which is some company
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: or entity doing vague classified work.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Which not for nothing do we ever fear what they're doing.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: They call it the development of progressive materials.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: It's like, but like, what are they Well of the
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: biggest problems with the movie is that it's just a
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: red herring. Like it literally is just a red herring.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: They go do normal jobs in real worlds, right, and
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: they set it up like what's the Victory Project? And
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I guess theoretically the Victory Project is is the spoiler
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: of the movie, like in the real world, But ultimately
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: it's so dissatisfying because they don't do anything with that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: And it also felt like the development of progressive Materials
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: was supposed to be like a real deep commentary, like
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: the women are the progressive materials, but like.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, they're so Like I kept writing down
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: like Florence goes to touch the plot stone so that
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the plot can continue. Yeah, it was under one one
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: of the many kind of that was like one of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: my least. There are some red herrings that are so
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: funny to me, like the Gema Chan fake out. I'm like,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: what do you mean?
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: Oh, I get there, doesn't make any sense.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Sorry, we'll get there.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: I like seized. I've been wanting to talk about that
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: since the movie came out.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I'm ready, it's her try now sure.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: To me, it felt like the work they were doing
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: was like nuclear weapons manufacturing coated.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I think that's like what we're supposed to think.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: But again, it's just a red herring. Who knows. Yeah,
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: so that's what the men do. The women, meanwhile, live
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: very typical nineteen fifties white American housewife lives. We see
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: Alice cooking and cleaning with a smile and a dress
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: and her hair done perfectly, and she and Jack are
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: also very horny for each other and they're constantly having sex. Yeah,
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: but soon Alice starts noticing some weird things.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Iconically, the eggs aren't eggs like so many of the
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: like thriller imagery is just so like it cracks me
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: up because it's so vague, like you're just pulling on
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: like things you're supposed to be but don't.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: You get it? Her life and the eggs are hollow.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: But then she cooks the eggs and she's like, the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: eggs aren't eggs. Minutes later they were, in fact eggs.
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: They're different eggs.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I guess, Oh, man, I love I love when the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: eggs aren't eggs. I watched I kept rewinding it and
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: making Grant watch it with me. I was like, one
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: day we're gonna wake up and the eggs aren't gonna
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: be eggs anymore, and what are you gonna do?
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: And wow? Makes you think?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: The sound design on the egg cracking scene was also
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: un like, you did too much here? Whoever did that?
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: But anyway, how.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Old are you gonna know? That the eggs are? The
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: eggs are and eggs? And Florence's is acting the hell
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: out of that scene.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, Florence is trying so hard and all of the
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: dialogue is so bad, and she's holding this thing together
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: with her little oven mits.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I swear she really is. I think like her performance
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: is genuinely good, Like she's selling me on this, Like
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm also confused, Florence, what is going on here?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I wish we knew?
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: Hmmm, So yeah, we get the We get some weird things,
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: such as the eggs aren't eggs. She's seeing some quick
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: flashes of things that she doesn't know what they are.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: She's constantly humming a song that's stuck in her head,
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: but she doesn't know what the song is, and something
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: is going on with her neighbor Margaret played by Kiki Lane.
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: Alice sees her behaving weirdly. Then everyone goes to a
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: party hosted by Frank played by Chris Pine and his
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: wife Shelley played by Jemma Chan and Frank is the
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: founder of the Victory Project and he's giving a speech
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: about how awesome it is, but Alice's neighbor, Margaret, interrupts
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: to be like, why are we here? What is going on?
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: And she's pulled out of the party and Frank brushes
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: it off, And then some of the women gossip about
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: Margaret and we learn that they used to be friends
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: with her until she quote unquote lost her mind and
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: took her young son out into the desert where he
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: apparently disappeared. Then one day, Alice is feeling restless.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: She has less.
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: Pep in her step as she's doing her household chores,
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: So she goes out and takes a ride on the
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: local trolley and she witnesses a plane crash in the
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: distance by the Victory Project headquarters.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Would you like to know what that means? Well, you're
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: never gonna find out. We don't know. Well, you're never
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: gonna get it.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: But the driver won't go out there to the crash
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: site to help, because there's this whole thing in Victory
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: where everyone has to stay in town. Leaving isn't safe.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Right, because the the simulatres the simulation. There's also like
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: another one of the thriller things we were like is
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: there's occasionally like small earthquakes that are very normal for
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: the community. You don't really know what that was.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: I think that was part of the like are they
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: testing nuclear weapons or whatever the fair Like project is.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: But it's her brain like, right, it's the simulation, right.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, if we go back to like screenwriting one
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: oh one, Like we're sitting down with notebooks and it's
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: a college class, right, Like one of the main questions
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: that you have to ask in a script is why today,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Like what is the inciting event? Why is this happening
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: to her today? And like why is she unhappy today?
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: There is simply no reason. There's no reason this started happening.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: And that's one of the major problems with the movie
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: is that there's no like real escalation, and there's no
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: motivation for her. She's just suddenly confused and discontented and
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: you know, like the feminine well, I have a whole
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: like there's so many problems, but like she's not actually
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: cause you were saying Kaitlin earlier, like they normal fifties
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: housewife lives, but they don't like they live in a
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: racially integrated, very happy, very sexually fulfilling community, which is nonsense,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: and she loves it and that's part of the politics
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: thing that I'm sure we'll return to. But like, she
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: has no problem with her life and thus the fact
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: that she suddenly does doesn't make any sense. Like, yeah,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: she's realizing that she's in the Stepford Wives, but it's
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: not because she doesn't actually enjoy drinking martiniz and playing
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: tennis like which you need to have that right, Like
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: in the Stepford Wives. The main character is a photographer
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: and she's like, you're not letting me do my art
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: or my work and I hate it. But here she's like,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I love getting hat on my kitchen table. And also
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I think something's wrong.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Like one of the many things with this where I
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: was like, why because we whatever. If you haven't watched,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: don't worry darling, then do or don't whatever? When people,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: our listeners don't complain about spoilers, but when people, I
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: was like, you clicked on it, it's not. But anyways,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: when it's later revealed that Florence Pugh's character is a doctor,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: You're like, why could that not become plot relevant?
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Why could there not be? Because theoretically, with Margaret, there's
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: a medical emergency. Why isn't there a part in the
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: back of her head that is like I know what
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: to do? But the past version of herself has absolutely
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: nothing in common with Like there's no like part of
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: herself rattling in the back of her head, which I
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: feel like could have at least given you a why
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: right of like, right, oh, I know how to help?
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Like why and I don't know. There's just so many
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: things this movie could have done that, it doesn't for
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: sure whatever.
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: So there's so she's on the trolley, she sees the
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: plane crash, and she ventures out into the desert on
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: foot and ends up at HQ of the Victory Project
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: and has some weird dream vision thing at the plot
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: stone at the plot building, and the next thing she knows,
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: she wakes up at home and she asks Jack how
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: she got there, and he's like, I don't know anything
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: about that or about this supposed plane crash, you silly goose.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then he does what Keanu Reeves also does
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: in The Devil's Advocate, where well it's not I think
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: it's like the beat after this, but he's like, I'm
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: going to be extra nice to you so you don't
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: notice something terrible is happening, or let me get you pregnant.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that's what you want, even though she says
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: she just doesn't.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: Right anyways, men always be trying to distract women with
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: a pregnancy.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but like, please have a kid that I will
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: see occasionally neglect y.
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, So then more weird stuff happens. For example,
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: the walls of her house seem like they are closing
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: in on her for a brief moment something compels Alice
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: to put saran rap around her head and nearly suffocate herself.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: I kind of dug that image as like a visual metaphor.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I think in a better movie, I would have been
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: like that that cooks, But.
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: Right here it just kind of feels like it's coming
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: out of nowhere.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: The esthetic, I mean, this movie looks good. It looks good.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: Production design is solid. Yeah, okay, so those weird things
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: are happening. There are a couple more things with Margaret,
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: including Alice seeing Margaret take her own life, and Alice
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: tries to run and help her, but two men in
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: red jumpsuits come out of nowhere and drag Alice away.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Which every single time reminds me of Monsters Inc. I
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: can't see men and haz matts suits and not be
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: like which obviously Monsters Inc. Didn't invent that, but to me,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: it did, and I'm not interested in further context.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, they look just like the orderlies in her hospital,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: which made me think about that one episode of the
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Twilight Zone with the woman who thinks that she's already
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: dead and she ends up in the Morgan her dreams,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: but again, because she doesn't seem to have any relation
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: to her normal life self. That image I don't think
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: read well.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: And my least favorite, my biggest plot hole on the
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: first viewing, which is this like talented doctor disappeared question
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: mark and no one is looking for her.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, does she have a family that wonders.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Where she is? She's probably five hundred hours a week
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: and people are like, well, I don't know, Like what
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: do you mean.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, our top surgeon is gone, but they're the schedule,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: like the shifts are fine, someone else will take it.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right, did Jack have to like fake her death
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: so that no one would question where she is? There's
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: a lot of world building that goes unexplored.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: But like I don't know. At this point, I'm like,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I'm laughing, Yeah, sure, sure, why not?
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: Why not?
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: It's feminism for this movie to suck. I yes.
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: So Alice witnesses this traumatic event with Margaret, and she
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: starts asking Jack a bunch of questions about his job
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: and what the Victory Project is actually doing, and he
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: gets furious and also does some very textbook gaslighting. And
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: then the town physician, doctor Collins played by Timothy.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Simmons Jonah from Veep, He comes.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: By to examine Alice, and she's like, hey, doc, what
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: the fuck is going on? What happened with Margaret? But
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: doctor Collins insists that Margaret is alive and she just
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: needs some psychiatric help, so she and her husband left Victory,
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: but Alice gets a sneak peek inside the doctor's briefcase
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: and sees a file on Margaret which is like mostly
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: blacked out.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: That made me cackle, Like when she opens it and
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: it's literally all redacted, like why are you carrying that?
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: That's not helping you as a doctor.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Right, And then she burns it for some reason, like
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: wouldn't that be evidence that something is going on, that
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: they're hiding something and trying to cover things up? Why
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: wouldn't she like hang.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: On to that. Don't worry, darling.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: We don't know.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't exactly.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: If you have questions about this movie, just don't you worry, darling.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Just remember what the title is, Yes, just the movie.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: The movie feels like a movie. Harry was trying to
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: get ahead of these criticisms.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: It feels like a movie. But is it?
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: But is it?
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: Then there's a big Victory Project event where Frank gives
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: Jack a promotion but Alice still feels very distraught about
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: everything that's been going on, and she tries to confide
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: in Bunny, the Olivia Wilde character, who turns on her
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: and acts as though Alice has lost her mind. The
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: next night, there's a dinner party at Alice and Jack's
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: house to celebrate his promotion, and Frank shows up and
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: approaches Alice privately to be like, I know that you're
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: on to me and I don't even care. Keep trying
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: and good luck with that.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Another dynamic that is not paid off on in any way.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Nope, no, on this rewatch. I actually really noticed that,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: in terms of the beat for beat of this movie,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: there's supposed to be sexual tension between Alice and mister
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: chris Pine Jordan Peterson, and there simply isn't. Oh Like,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: there's that earlier scene where she and Harry Styles are
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: having sex and he walks in and watches, and then
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: in all of the rest of the scenes, I think
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: it's supposed to be like, not only is he the
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: moriarty to her homes with this totally out of pocket
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: villain monologue, but also they're supposed to be having chemistry
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: and chris Pine theoretically good casting choice absolutely failed. He's
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: so flat, it's just not working.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: I didn't notice that at all. I didn't realize that that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Was dude, I think when you look through it, because
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: then at dinner he basically implies that he and Alice
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: have been having sex this whole time, and Harry Styles
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: is like, guess we won't address that one. But I
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: think that would have helped the story a lot, because
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: if the metaphor is that this way of life is
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: seductive for women, which is what I think is actually
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: most salient to the present, Like let's talk about tradwives
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: and the appeal. Let's unpack that, right. But if that's
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: the idea, then the erotic tension between those two is
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: essential because for me, my biggest issue with this movie
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: is that it's having its cake and eating it too,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: where this is a movie where Olivia Wilde was both like,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: we're supposed to be exploring what it's like for women
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: who are living in a system that actually works really
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: well for them without actually unpacking how that system works,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: like all of the paternalism is really benevolent, and all
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: of these women are getting so much head Like none
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: of these women, like she said on a podcast when
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: she was like, no man comes in this movie, and
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, you're right, yeah, like that that is
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: how that works. Like nineteen fifty's Integrated non racist America
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: where the women are having orgasms, Like the height report
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: was not released until the late sixties, Like the idea
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: that women had orgasms generally speaking, like sodomy laws were
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: still a thing, like this was not like.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Like you know, it wasn't socially acceptable for women to
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: come like I in our lifetimes, like it has it
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Like it's just I don't know, I I agree with you,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: like she I appreciate what she's trying to do. It's
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: kind of I mean in a different way because obviously
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Olivia Wilde Shonda rhymes different people. But it reminds me
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: of a lot of the criticism that you often see
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: around Bridgerton, where it's like very nostalgic and like weirdly
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: celebrating a very regressive time in the visuals and like
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: all this stuff and like quote unquote corrects the past
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: to make it more comfortable when it's like well but
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: theoretically less so in Bridgerton, which is like really just
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: turn your brain way down, which is fine, I watch it,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: but like this movie is trying to be smart and
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: it's like, okay, then well we'll talk about keek Elen's
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: character Margaret too, because it's like, yes, I would be
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: so curious what because Keekulane was pubblicly like when this
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: movie came out, because every every actor, I think once
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Florence Pugh went nuclear and showed up at wherever with
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: the apparol sprits. Everyone was like, oh, we're allowed to
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: talk shit about the movie. Great, and Kiki Lane was like,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: all our scenes were cut, we had a storyline where
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: to go. I'd be very curious what that was. I'm
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: not confident that it would have been markedly better, but
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: like this movie's refusal to engage with race in any
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: way is so glaring.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Well, this her character is so racist, Like she's just
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: the wise black foil to Florence Pew. Like there's that
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: scene in the dance studio where it's literally Kiki Laane
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: looking sad and knowledgeable and Florence Peugh staring at her
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: in a way it's like this basically like reductive, like
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: the help levels of reductive for this character here.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Right, and like her really wild body, really like her
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: dead body being like really harped upon in spite of
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the fact that we like we don't even have time
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: to become endeared this character, Like we don't know her
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: at all. She is being used to, Like you're saying
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: this very racist plot device. I would be curious what
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: those scenes were. I don't feel confident that they that
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: it would approve what we're talking about very much. But
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: it just like, in a movie that is trying to
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: say something about feminism, you cannot refuse to engage with race.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: That is like been at the absolute core that and
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: homophobia and tresphobia have been at the core of the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: problems with every feminist movement ever, like you have to
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: engage with it. It makes me feel nuts. That's literally
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: the problem with the feminine mystique. Did no one tell
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: her that?
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Wow?
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: And we can get into this later too, But the
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: Margaret character was originally supposed to be played by Dakota Johnson,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: so it was originally supposed to be a white woman,
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: and then I didn't they cast Keiki Laane instead, but
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: like didn't do anything to adjust the story to accommodate
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: that character now being a black woman. So like it's
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: a it's a mess.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: But I don't know if if either of you have
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: seen I just saw After the Hunt over the weekend.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, not yet.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't like it. Whatever it's but like, I feel
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: like it has like kind of a similar issue where
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Iowa Debois is playing a college student who is allegedly
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: that's the whole point of the movie, assaulted by a
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: white professor, but it does not engage with race in
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: any way to the point where it's like distracting. This
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: movie has a similar problem for sure. All right, where
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: are we in the story? Oh, we're in the middle
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: of this dinner party. Alice confronts Frank at the dinner
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: table in front of everyone, being like, you're lying to us.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: We don't even know what the victory project is? What
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: even is this place? Where does our food come from?
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: The eggs? Aren't eggs, Chris Pine, Why aren't the eggs eggs?
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: And he's like, no comment, And she's like, you disappear
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: people who ask any questions and he he's just like you,
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: silly little girl. And everyone does not like Alice's behavior,
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: so they all leave, and Alice, realizing that she's in danger,
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: begs Jack for them to leave. Victory for good that night,
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: and he agrees, or at least he seems to, because
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: as they're about to drive off, the men in the
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: red jumpsuits show up and abduct her, and it's clear
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: that Jack is complicit in this, and Alice is taken
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: to a medical facility, put in restraints, and given electroshock therapy,
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: which prompts a flashback of Jack and Alice. Although it's
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: not the nineteen fifties in Victory, California, it's modern day
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: and she's a modern woman with a job even she's
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: a surgeon. Jack on the other hand, is unemployed and
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: resentful of her, and he spends his time listening to
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: this like Men's rights podcast hosted by Frank and it's
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: giving Jack some ideas. We then cut back to Victory.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: Alice returns home from the medical facility and she seems
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: to be doing much better, aka she is once again
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: blissfully ignorant of what's actually going on, and they go
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: back into the routine of Jack going to work and
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: Alice being a quote unquote perfect housewife. But then Jack
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: puts on a record and plays the same song that
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: Alice has been humming the whole movie, and that triggers
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: another flashback slash memory, where we learn that the Victory
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: Project is actually a fucked up black market computer simulation
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: where people are hooked up and put into this world
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: that we've been seeing this like idyllic nineteen fifties community,
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: and Jack has put Alice into this simulation against her will.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: We cut back to the simulation and again this song
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: is triggering all of these memories of Alice in the
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: real world, and now she fully realizes what's going on,
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: and she's like, what the fuck, Jack, You took my
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: life away from me. You've trapped me here along with
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: all of these other women who are trapped.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: This is the scene where I think that the very
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: funny Harry Styles acting meme comes from where oh, you
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: can't like I can't. It's not a visual medium, but
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: where he's sort of like the whole time, he's like,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: the vocal performance is there, but his face is sort
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: of doing like the angry emoji. It's cute.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because he and Florence Q can both
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: make that same cartoon front of you, Yes, and they're
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: making it at each other in the scene. It's awesome.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: You're like, I don't like it. I don't think Harry
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Styles is that bad.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: I don't think so either.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: No, And then Jack becomes violent, so she strikes him
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: over the head and kills him, which means he dies
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: in the real world too, which will cause her no
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: problems in the future, No, none, whatsoever.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: She'll be fine.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, don't worry. The movie's about to just end abruptly,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: so it's all good, right, But first, it's my turn now, right.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Well, then Bunny shows up and reveals that she has
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: known all along that this is a simulation, and she
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: actually chose this life because her children, who she lost
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: in the real world are with her in Victory. But
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: now Bunny wants to help Alice leave and to save herself.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: I don't know why this switch suddenly happened, but Bunny
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: is helpful now. So Alice gets in Jack's car and
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: drives toward the head quarters, which actually is the like
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: the plot stone exit portal.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Yea, it's the plot stone. She has to touch the
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: plot stone, and literally, when she touches the plot stone,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: the movie ends.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: You're like so abrupt. So she's driving out to this location.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: The men in the red jumpsuits are chasing her, Frank
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: is freaking out because if Alice escapes back to the
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: real world, theoretically she would be able to expose the
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: Victory Project. But he doesn't actually like explicitly express that
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: as a concern, and that was just like my head cannon.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: But Frank's wife, Shelley stabs him for reasons.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: It's her turn now, it's her turn before you have
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: a time fighting for her life in that scene, because
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: it's like you can sort of see in her eyes somewhere.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm saying either, right.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I just can't believe that Erica Kirk did that to
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: That's what happened. It was just her. It just happened
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: to be her turn. Now, Like can we just talk?
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Can we please? Because how does that mean? Does that
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: imply she's gonna take over simulation Land? Does that mean
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: that she wants a career? Does that mean we needed
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: her to say something?
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: Does that mean she finally found out that the Victory
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: Project is what it is? And she's also.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Feels like she's very much in on it. The whole
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: ride you get from her is that she knows, like
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: she's introduced visually as if she knows everything, right, but
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: we actually don't ever really learn about anything about it.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know, which is agonizing because like the in
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: terms of going back to Olivia Wilde's character and the
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: fact that this is ostensibly about the reasons that women
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: become tridwives or participate in conservative misogyny, right, Like, each
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: character should have some element or thing that teaches you something.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: That's how scripts work, that's what characters are for. And
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: so Olivia Wilde's character theoretically is like the load star
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: of the film because she knows and she chose this,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: and it's such a cowardly cop out to be like, oh,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: it's because of my tragic backstory and not because I
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: like Martiniz and hanging out with my husband, you know
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: what I mean. She's not actually fully leaning into it.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: And then if you don't tell us why Erica Kirk
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: is like this either, then we get nothing, which is
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: why this movie is not good.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: Right, Yes, it's true. So Frank gets stabbed. Meanwhile, Alice
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: is still trying to make her way to the exit.
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: She's being chased by all of the men in the community,
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: but she finally makes it to the exit portal and
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: then off screen wakes up in the real world, and
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: that's the end of the movie.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: So there's that little apple ad at the end though,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: where she's dancing on her own it slashes of her.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: She's fine, she's not sad.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. I apparently stopped watching the movie immediately
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: after it like fades to black because I was like,
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: I can't handle another second of this.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: There is that little don't worry. It's not anything that clarifies, No.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: It's just a don't worry darling moment. Like she doesn't
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: have PTSD, she can walk even though she's been bedridden,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: and there are no legal consequences for the murder of
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: her intel husband.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: She's good, She's good, right, And also like, this is
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: a world in which Jordan Peterson just died under mysterious circumstances.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: Too, Yeah, because we learned that if you die in
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: the simulation, you die in the real world. So Frank
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: Chris Pine's dead in the real world. Well, let's ponder
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: these questions and more after this break, and we're back,
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: and don't worry, don't worry, darling, We're back.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I'm honestly, I'm worrying, Darling.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: I'm worrying I'm stressed, Darling, Darling, I don't feel good. Yeah,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: if it's okay, let's start with because we already sort
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: of started talking about Kihi Laine's character. I feel like
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: that's a good place to start because it's also, like
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: we've been hinting at, is like such a central issue
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: with the movie of like this movie's and I think, like, again,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: this gets to this movie, I feel like is pretty
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: clearly written in conversation with the me Too movement. It's
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: also why I'm thinking about it with After the Hunt,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: even though After the Hunt, like I'm like, why is
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: it coming out now? It's been alost ten years whatever.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: But like again, I think what we've talked about pretty
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: thoroughly on this show at this point is the failures
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: of that moment are sort of the failures of every
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: feminist movement, which is that it is very myopically focused
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: on how misogyny affects privileged CIS white women, which it does,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: but like when it like I don't know, yeah, like
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Olivia Wilds says that she's made this movie about complicity,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: but that's not true, Like the movie has no oh
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: criticism of Florence Pugh's character, like she is our final girl.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: From moment one, we are not really We're just fully
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: on her side the whole time. I feel like a
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: better movie would ask the questions you were saying, Peyton
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: of Like, I don't know, it would be interesting to
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: see a thriller movie interrogate, like a lot of why
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: these women are engaging with this world is because it's comfortable,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: and even when they're seeing other people be subjugated, they
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: would rather ignore other people's subjugation than sacrifice their own comfort.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Like that's an interesting thing to bring up, but it
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: was just very dissonant, like looking back at the press
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: junker for this outside of all of the personal drama,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: because it's like it just feels like the team keeps
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: saying that they made a movie that like they didn't.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think part of the problem here
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: in terms of the nuts and bolts, which I think
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: we have to always start with with this movie, for
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: like why it's not working? It's like why is my
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: car broken? Like why am I worrying? Darling? I think
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: part of the problem I kept thinking about, did you
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: guys actually watch Suicide Squad when it came out way
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: back when.
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: Which one first one or the second one, yeah, the
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: first one, no, yes, I've seen it, Okay.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Suicide Squad is a nightmare mess for one reason above
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: all others, and that's the editing of the movie. The
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: first scene starts, the soundtrack starts, and every scene is
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: cut like a trailer, and the soundtrack never stops, and
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: you get no access to any characters, and the pacing
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: is brutal, and I think that don't worry Darling should
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: have probably been two and a half hours long to
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: get what they actually wanted from it, And the soundtrack
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: never stops, and so you never get any like actual
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: interiority or subjectivity from Florence Pugh because eighty percent of
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: the movie is a montage. So there's not even space
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: to criticize her character because she doesn't have a character,
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: because she is a beautiful piece of window dressing, cleaning
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: beautiful things and having a really good time except when
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: she's not. So that's really hard to make a nuanced
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: critique out of. And like that's not just say. You
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: can have a montage that's very effective and tells you
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: a lot, that's actually what they're for, but when you
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: do it like this, it just simply doesn't work, And
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: there's also the element of like, you know, the elephant
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: of misogyny in the room and the fact that they're
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: too scared to actually show people being misogynistic, Like yeah, right,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: where there's that scene with Dita Bantes. It's the one
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: scene where they're like, we're gonna we're gonna do some
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: locker room talk, like we're gonna actually show women being
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: objectified and not just as housewives who also get to
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: have sex. And even then it's like so clean and
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: nice and stylistic and like objectifying of Dita Buntes that
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: you're still not it's still too slick to let you
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, the men are right right, it's about boobs,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: like right, So so that's a big problem.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: There's so much dissonance in Frank being the creator of
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: the Victory project, him being like mister misogyny. He has
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: created this whole simulation that's akin to like make America
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: great again ideals like the good old days when men
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: worked in women stayed home and cooked and cleaned. But
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: it doesn't examine like MAGA ideals any like beyond that
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: at all, as far as like as far as racism,
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: as far as homophobia and transphobia, anything like that. And
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: so we just see this world in which like the
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: men are really nice to their wives and there is
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: like racial integration into this community that if this was
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: the real like nineteen fifties America, black families would have
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: been breadlined out of a community like this.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean it doesn't even have to be the fifties.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Like Christian nationalists, they're trying to create that kind of community.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, Yeah, It is interesting watching this movie
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: when with the not benefit but knowing that things can
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: you need to get worse. This movie did not in
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: fact solve society like we hoped, which is the job
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: of every single movie ever, and if it.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Doesn't, especially if it's made by women, yes then they
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: have to.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: I do feel kind of bad that Olivia Wild appears
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: to be in director jail over this, but which I
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: do think, as we've talked about on the show, this
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: is a very flawed movie, but happens to women way
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: more than otherwise. Women cannot direct b movie. It's literally
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: not allowed, except for Emerald Finnell for some reason. But
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: good for.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Her because she makes bank every time. She knows what
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: the girlies want and they want period sex, she puts.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Butts in seats. Yeah, this is like a very common
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: criticism of this movie, but feels worth mentioning just because
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: it echoes everything we've been talking about, which is like
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: the dissonance of what Olivia wild. And again, also the
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: writer of the movie, I always forget she did not
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: write this movie, Katie Silberman, who also wrote BookSmart and
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: a Netflix movie called Set It Up.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Did you know it was a spec script by the
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: by Dick Van Dyke's kids.
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: First, okay, what, sorry, I have to take a detour
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: about this. Yes, uh so Katie Silberman wrote the screenplay,
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: but it was originally a spec script that I think
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: was circulating on the Blacklist, which was written by Carrie
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: Van Dyke and Shane Van Dyke, who are brothers and
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: who are grandsons of Dick Van Dyke and Shane Van
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: Dyke wrote and directed Titanic two stop. So oh, if
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: that's any indication of the quality of the storytelling.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Oh my, well, it's always I mean with that as
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: very clarifying, because you're like, of course two guys came
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: up with this story, it doesn't make any sense. I
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: love that I also learned through just going back and
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: back clicking all the blue links on Olivia Wilds Wikipedia page.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: She's like I would she has like famous parents, but
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: it's like not direct nepo. Her parents are like famous journalists. Also,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: her name is Olivia Cockburn. She changed it for maybe reasons,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: you could guess, but her parents are Andrew and Leslie Cockburn,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: who in the nineties like wrote this very famous book
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: about that basically that is deeply critical of Israel, and
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: like did a lot of original reporting about the military
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: relationship between the US and Israel. Going back to the Neckbob.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: So I was just like, well, that's interesting about Olivia
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Wild's heritage and her grandfather was like a famous socialist leader,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: and you're just sort of like hm. So it made
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: me more sympathetic to her to be like, she's I
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: do think she's trying to get it, but she's maybe
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: just been famous for too long and she's very white.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes me less sympathetic. Where she's like like
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: you had the tools, Yeah, you had the Master's tools
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: and the Master's house at your disposal at all times.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: But the quote that actually I think sums up the
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: whole problem with the movie was she was doing a
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Q and A and she said that it was a
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: really seductive lifestyle in the fifties end quote, though I
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: could kind of judge the lack of autonomy at the time,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: i e. The fifties, it also said like a really
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: fabulous life. I mean Martini's for breakfast, Like why not?
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: So she just like is saying shit. Yeah. And the
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: thing I was going to bring up is that, like
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: in the press tour where she's kind of like shooting
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: herself on the foot quite a bit, she is talking
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: about how like men don't come in this movie, women come.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: But then if you watch the movie, you're like, well,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: there's no consent being given, so why are there these
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: sort of like long languishing scenes on Like isn't it
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: cool say Harry's styles go down on a woman? And
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, sure, in theory, I guess the song
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Watermelon Sugar is in fact about her, but the plot
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: is that all of this is happening against the women's will,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: so like, and they don't interface with that at all,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Like the movie refuses to engage with that. So yeah,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: it just was very bizarre seeing this, as you know,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: making it out to be this movie of sexual liberation
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: when the plot does not allow that. Florence Pew appeared
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: to kind of like push back on this framing. Also,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: she just hates Olivia Wild So maybe she's being petty here,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: but I think it's a useful quote, she said in
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: an interview. When it's reduced to your sex scenes or
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: to watch the most famous man in the world go
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: down on someone, that's not why we do it. It's not
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: why I'm in this industry. Obviously, the nature of hiring
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: the most famous pops are in the world. You're going
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: to have conversations like that, but I'm not going to
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: be discussing it because this is bigger and better than that.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: So again, it does feel like not pushing back against
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: norms by harping on non consensual sex in your pressed horror, right,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't quite make sense. Like women coming, sure,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: but not in this movie. Well, if you women don't
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: come in this movie, we cannot rectly.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you come in the simulation, do you come
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: in real life?
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Oh it's true, if you die? Yeah, do you Harry
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: Stylls coming in his pants in their dirty little bed,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: in their literal like insul Den Because also, she like
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: she's a surgeon. Why do the their apartment suck?
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Anyway, That's what I noticed was rewatched the most. Actually, like, no, yeah,
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: I think that the thing that I found most compelling
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: in the wake of the Charlie Kirk, thing that made
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: me find more use potential and failed use of from
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: this movie was the whole like because you know, conservative
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: like trad cats and conservative guys who follow Charlie Kirk, Like,
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: one of the things that comes up all the time
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: is a sense of economic decline and instability. It's like
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: you know, the all on a single income memes that
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: circulate in those bases, right, it's the sense that the
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: economy is getting worse, the world is stratifying, and in
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: order to fix that, we need to go back to
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: a time and emulated time when a man could take
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: care of his family on a single income and provide
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: for his family. Because that's what masculinity is, it's being
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: a provider, right, And this movie, I actually thought because
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: the first time I saw it, I saw the stringy
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: wig and I just cackled really hard and couldn't see
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: past it or at all. It's really hard where he's
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: like make me a sandwich, like baby girl put the
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: wig in the Smithsonian Institution that the wiggest camp the Yeah,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: the Academy Museum needs to buy that right now. But however,
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I think the angle here that he felt that he
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: couldn't provide for his wife and he felt insecure in
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: his masculinity and literally bankrupts himself to provide this fantasy
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: in the most perverse, like serial killer way, to ostensibly
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: provide for his wife, like speaks to something that's going
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: around in the culture, you know what I mean, Like,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: there's something kind of poignant in a perverse and tragic
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: way about the fact that he moves from their nice
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: apartment to a literal like den of an you know, iniquity.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: So to do this, yeah, yeah, like rather than be
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: comfortable with his wife making more money than him, like
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: that is it is wild to me how much we
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: are still dealing. I mean, it's not surprising, but it's
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: just infuriating in the day to day sense. But just
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: how like again, it's like there's interesting ideas presented in
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: a very silly and weirdly and curious way, for sure.
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: I mean, it reminds me of you know, the conversation
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: we had surrounding a recent episode and movie that we
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: covered Companion, which has similar themes and vibes as far
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: as like, it's a man who he feels as though
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: his masculinity is being threatened either by like modern feminism
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: or specifically his partner, and then he like does something
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: very drastic to try to like make himself feel better.
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: And both Companion and Don't Worry Our call attention to
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: and start to examine this misogyny and male fragility, which
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: is important. But both movies focus on the plight of beautiful,
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: thin cis white women and the like individual liberation of
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: one of them. Right, Alice saves herself, but the movie
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: ends before we get any sense of whether or not
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: she would go back and try to like liberate the
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: other women.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think the post credits scenes indicates absolutely
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: it's not right.
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: The one that I did not watch at all. Yeah,
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: Like the movie doesn't care at all about collective liberation.
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: It just cares about the liberation of this one woman.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Which is like another classic like misstep of feminism is
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: like a hyper focus on individuality or like your specific group,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: although Flow doesn't even care about her group. It's just
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: a mess.
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: I just had a thought and it's gone well to
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: go back to the Margaret character who's played by Kiki Lane.
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: I wanted to pull from a piece in Refinery twenty
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: nine entitled Don't Worry Darling is peak white feminism as
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: expected by writer Honia Angus says, quote victory is a
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: simulation created by Frank to keep women locked away in captivity,
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: and the severity of that idea is never fully explored.
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: Frank's continuous chanting about regaining control of your life and
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: wanting men to return to a time when everything seemed
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: right is clearly tied to white supremacy and its relation
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: to protecting white femininity. The in cells Wild is attempting
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: to discredit are not just hurt men who need wives
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: or women to have sex with. They are raging racists
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: and bigots. And then the piece goes on to say
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: having Margaret die off to kickstart Alice's journey feels disgusting
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: in hindsight, especially when you realize Lane has been snubbed
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: from most of the film's press run, cut from a
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: lot of the film itself, and barely even mentioned amongst
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: the drama circling the movie. The film cuts back and
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: forth from shots of her dead body in some poor
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: sense of building up suspense and grief. But it just
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: feels like it's taunting its viewers with how little it
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: respects its singular black character who is pivotal to the
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: story yet had little to no screen time unquote. Because
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: it's true, like Margaret is like part of the catalyst
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: that gets things going for Alice, but she ends.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Up being basically like a glorified prop as far as
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: the movie is concerned.
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: For sure, we know nothing about her. Most of the
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: time we see her, it's either like from another character's
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: point of view, like she's off in the distance, or
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: it's like the white women in the community gossiping about her.
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: It's just like a really bleak characterization of the only
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: black woman in the movie who gets any sort of dialogue,
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: which is like two lines maybe like next to nothing.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's something's not right and that's it.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But they're both doing that and like refusing to
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that the women in this story are racist, Like
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: it totally skirts that criticism entirely, Like it's done. It
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: just is like, Okay, so the movie is racist because
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: it is doing this racist thing and its characters are
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: not even reacting and especially Margaret. Yeah, it's just unbelievably frustrating.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: The knowing that it was supposed to be to Cota
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Johnson is really instructive, I think, because it just seems
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: like they were gonna just cast white people and let
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: that be part of the thing. It's like, it's very
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: clear to me that this was written to be about
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: all white people, right, because it's the fifties. I mean,
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: the fact that they didn't have the fantasy, the inceel
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: fantasy of the fact that all of these women don't
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: have maids, sure, even though they're existing in this very
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: upper middle class context, feels like they just didn't want
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: to touch it because that would have been hard and uncomfortable. Right,
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: but see these women, like, if we actually want to,
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: let's let's talk about the feminine mystique, right, like the
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: fun lifestyle they're describing. I'm trying to find a quote.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: I read a piece about this at the time. But
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: the idea that, like, our lives are empty, all we
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: have time to do every day. Yes, here's a quote
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: from the feminine mystiq. My days are all busy and dull.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: I get up at eight, I make breakfast, so I
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: do the dishes, have lunch, do some more dishes, and
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: do some laundry and cleaning in the afternoon. Than it's
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: supper dishes. The children have to be sent to bed.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: That's all there is to my day. It's just like
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: any other wife's day, right, But like they have time
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: to do that and have parties and go swimming, you know,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: like they just spend time.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: At the pool, and it's it's racist rights. It's literally
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: a racing people. I like, going off of your point,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Peyton Aram also sort of feels reminiscent of, oh my gosh,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: what was that.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: Sophia Coppola movie The Beguiled?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: The Beguiled where she is remaking a movie that does
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: have a black character that was racist at the time,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: and she's remaking this movie and she doesn't know what
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: to do with a black character, so she just removes them.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: And you're just like, that is like the worst possible
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: thing you could do is to just refuse to engage
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: and literally erase people, which feels like a similar thing
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: to do because she's not whatever the writers who I
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: don't even know who I'm yelling at. Sometimes, am I
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: yelling at Olivia Wild? Am I yelling at Katie Silverman.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Am I yelling at the Van Dykes?
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: Shane Van Dyke?
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: I have no idea if I'm yelling at she Maybe
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Titanic two, maybe I'm yelling at Shane Van Dyke. But like,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: the movie is not comfortable committing to having characters like
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Bunny be villains and having Jemma Chan's character be a villain,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: because there's just these random girl Boss solidarity moments added
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: in in the end that I think, like gelled with
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: what a good feminist does, but these people are not
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: good feminists, So like what it's so bizarre also feels
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: worth mentioning, even though this is more behind the scenes drama.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: I also totally forgot about this. The Harry Styles character
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: was originally played by Shila Buff.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, and first I had to talk about Shila Buff
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: a lot on this show. But Shila Buff was publicly
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: credibly accused of abuse by FKA Twigs at the beginning
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one when this movie was in production.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: Right, I believe we talk more about this in the
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: episode on Holes, But yeah, Shila Buff left. Don't worry Darling.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: Seems like August of twenty twenty there are conflicting accounts
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: of what happened. Olivia Wilde says that she fired him
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: because he brought a combative energy to the set, that
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: his work style clashed with the cast and crew. She
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: was trying to cultivate a safe space for everyone and
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: felt like he was putting that in Jeopardy. Shila buff
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: denies that he was fired, saying that he quit because
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: he and the other actors were not given adequate time
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: to rehearse, and that Olivia Wilde wanted him to come
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: back to the project but he refused.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: We weren't there.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: We don't know exactly what happened. What I do know
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: is that I'm glad I didn't have to watch him
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: in this movie, and I would rather watch Harry Styles
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: any day.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: I'm also thinking I was thinking about another movie in
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: the Me Too Women Trying to Talk about Me to
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: School Blink Twice, which actually does have, you know, another
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: messy movie. But like I do think women should be
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: allowed to make these movies about this subject until someone
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: gets it right. But you know, with the Harry Styles
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: connection of Zoe Kravitz being trail behind the helm of
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: that one, that movie has a better, more nuanced depiction
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: of like women who are complicit in the Geena Davis character, Yeah,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: they do kind of un do that because women don't
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: seem capable of accepting that sometimes other women are villains.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: And that movie, I think is just it's my turn now,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: like the crazy girl Boss ending of Blink Twice where
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: it's like, you know, in feminist America, like Enslave you like.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Bezos now and you're like, yeah, I still watch,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: and then it's like brought to you by Amazon Movies.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's that and Poor Things has the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: same kind of ending.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it can be cathartic.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: It can totally be cathartic to flip the script and
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: be like, and now the women are, you know, using
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: men's buddies for their own amusement. But in movies that
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: are ostensibly about feminist politics, like that doesn't fly so much.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Right right, It's just like, I don't know, it's it's
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: it was fun at first. I will say, like I'm
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: not above a good for her ending. Yeah, if if
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: it feels earned. I don't know, if it feels earned,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: why not. But this movie is just like it just
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel earned.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: No, it does not. Does anyone have anything else they'd
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: like to discuss?
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I was just worried, darling.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: So I was, we were we were feeling darling.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: I think my final thought on it is that we
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: the fact that Olivia Wilde is trying to be sympathetic
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: to what you can kind of reductively describe as the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: media and Trump voter, the conservative person who's feeling economic
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: and cultural anxieties about their insecure position in a world
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: that is objectively getting worse on every level, particularly in
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: a class conscious way, I think is commendable. I think
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: presenting like trying to give some sympathy, you know, however
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: perverse that may sound to the what's now being referred
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: to as the male loneliness epidemic of it all. With
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: Harry Styles's character is interesting and I found that way
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: more engaging on this round in this current political coal
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: I meant that she does so at the complete loss
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: of nuance or coherence, and I think that we should, really,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: we should all be worrying Darling, and we should all
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: be trying to make a better version of this movie
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: that includes people, and lets people be complicated and lets
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: Florence Pew want to have her martinis at noon, and
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: lets Harry styles be misogynistic, like textually as well as structurally,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: you know, right, And we can do it. We can
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: do we can do better. We should make hard art,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: we should make complicated art, we should make icky art.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: And women should do all of that. And I'm waiting
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: and worrying, darling.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: And if you and and and if you fail, you
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: should it should not do me your entire career.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, does it count as a character being complicated? If
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: Olivia Wilde's character Bunny when she reveals that she is
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: voluntarily in victory because in this universe she still has
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: her kids. But the entire movie we see her not
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 4: interacting with her children at all. We see her yelling
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: at them, not being affectionate with them. Instead, she's day
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: drinking all the time and completely neglecting her children.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with no babysitters.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: Is that complex? Is that a complex character?
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: It sort of makes you wonder what happened to her
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: kids and was it a result of her?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: Was her fault?
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: They're not real kids. I can say that. I yeah, no,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: And again it's like that is another little chicken nugget
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: of like, oh, what an interesting potential thing to explore.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: That's just like at the very end of the movie,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's just it's a mess. But
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, Peyton, I think that this movie
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: should someone's gonna get it, Someone's gonna figure it out
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: one of these days. And it feels like, I don't know,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: definitely a moment. It is weird that this movie has
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: both become more and less timely into three years since
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: it came out.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: Right As far as the Bechdel test, it does pass.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 4: There are many scenes in which women are talking to
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: each other about other women because they're gossiping, or they're
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: or at least one of them is questioning what's really
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: going on with the Victory Project and da da da.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: So you know, the movie passes the Bechdel test, but
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: we always what costs exactly exactly. But to move on
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: to the perfect metric by which we examine movies, the
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: Bechdel cast nipple scale, in which we write a movie
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: on a scale of zero to five nipples, examining it
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: through an intersectional feminist lens. I think I'm gonna go
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: to nipples. It is attempting to start to say something.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: The movie does have an agenda. It just feels like
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: something that maybe would have come out in like twenty
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: twelve instead of twenty twenty two. It just it feels
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: quite behind in its intersectionality and its ability to really
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: thoughtfully examine.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: See I kind of disagree. I feel like this is
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: very twenty twenty two and it's well in its white feminism.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: Well especially in Hollywood certainly, where you know, this is
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: a mainstream studio movie made by privileged, rich white people.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: So yeah, this is not going to be the radical leftist,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: intersectional takedown of patriarchy and white supremacy that we'd love
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: to see because Hollywood isn't really in the business of
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: doing that, at least not at this time.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: So I guess what you're saying is that it feels
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: like a real Hollywood movie, like a film movie. It's
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: like a movie.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: Wait what hold on? There is a bit someone says
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: something like this once.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: Is it is it that it's it's a it's a
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: movie that feels like a movie.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Very underrated. Element of that clip is Chris Pine just
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: shark eyed dead eyes in the background. He was so
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: checked out on this press tour.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: It's funny though, because that quote actually has become a
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: staple since this movie came out of when I'm watching
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: movies with my husband, Like, we will be watching a
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: movie and he'll be going, it feels like a movie.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: And he actually did this forgetting that it came from
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: this movie. When we started watching this movie. For this episode,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: he was like, it looks like a look, so it
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: all circles back around.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Wow, beautiful look. I was not I was not a directioner,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: but the Harry styles appeal, I get it. I get
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: it because he's just saying shit. He's saying shit, He's
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: minding his own business. He just ran a he's like
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: an incog mode right now except for fucking Zoe Kravitz,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: which he wants everybody to know. And sure, but he
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: is like living incognito mode right now. And ran a
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: marathon under a fake name. Whoa Caitlin. Did we talk
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: about this? I we didn't. Just a fun not passing
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: the Bectels test thing. Yeah, he just like ran the
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: Berlin marathon under the name stead Surrandos.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: Okay, good for him, and he.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Got a great time. So you know, he's he's just chilling.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: He's doing what more absurdly rich people do, which is
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: just being quiet and yes, so you're going to, oh, yes,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: two nipples for all the reasons we've previously discussed on
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: this episode, and you know that I'm gonna give my
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: nipples to Shane Van Dyke, writer and director of Titanic two,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: my favorite movie of all time.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: We got it covered JKJK. But yeah, we really, oh
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: we you know, we haven't done a Titanic episode this year, and.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: It's it's not too late, but it's not too late, Okay, Okay,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: something to consider.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, two nipples to Shane Van Dyke to two nipples
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: to Titanic two, sure is more accurate.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go one and a half, which is maybe
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: a little like, I agree this movie is trying to
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: do stuff. I feel like, I don't know, I feel
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: like I've been very inconsistent in this episode of like,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: it's just it's a hard one because I feel like,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: in general, we are culturally still very hard on feminist
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: art that does not completely like work. And I know
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: I've been guilty of being overly critical of a movie
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: that feels like a movie. But because this movie was
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: really aggressively marketing itself as something that had something to
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: say about feminism and having it sort of be this
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: kind of cowardly white feminist. It's basically, you know, there's
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: no egg inside the egg. When I see that's the
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: central image of the movie. I was promised an egg
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: and I was given a shell. And so I don't
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: really know, Like maybe that's a little too hard on
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: a movie that does seem to be doing its best,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: but its best isn't great. But I agree with I'm
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: going to be thinking about it, like we should keep trying,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: we should keep trying to make this movie, and we
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: should give someone who is not already a wealthy white
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: woman a crack at it. Perhaps, So with that, I'm
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: going to give it one and a half nipples, And
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give half a nipple to the egg
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: that wasn't an egg, and I'm going to give my
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: other nipple to the plot.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: Rock nice Peyton, how about you.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: I think one and a half is right because this
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: movie raised my blood pressure in such a specific way
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: watching it fail. I think it's so compelling, and so
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: in a certain sense, I give it like three nipples
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: for like incurring my feminist rage and making me more
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: cont just as a feminist in that moment, but I'm
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: gonna give a whole nipple to it's my turn now,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: and then half a nipple to the wig.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: The hairstyle stream wig.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: You really have to love the wig. They thought they
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: were doing something with the wig.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna say the one thing we haven't mentioned,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: you're because you're so worried about the egg. As metaphor,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: I was thinking, like the title don't worry Darling comes
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: from an ad from the nineteen fifties where there's a
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: woman in front of a stove and everything's burning behind
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: her and she has a handkerchief and she's crying on
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: her husband's shoulder and her husband says, don't worry, darling,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: you didn't burn the beer, And like, that's how I
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: feel about Olivia Wilds making this movie, being like I
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: love Martini's like, well, don't worry, darling, you didn't burn
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: the beer. You know.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: Wow, It's just you know, we'll get them. We'll get
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: them next time, question mark, we'll get them next time.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: We worried Darling and Peyton, thank you so much for
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: worrying with us.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, oh my gosh, thank you for having me.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: Of course, come back anytime. I would love to talk
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: which movies with you? Hell yeah, where can we find
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: your work?
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: You can find me on Instagram at pay place p
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: a y T place. You can pick up my book
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: or the previous one, which is about national treasure and
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: conspiracy theory. Uh wherever books are sold. And the national treasure,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: the national treasure.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to steal it.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: I'm going to steal the Declaration of Independence national treasure.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: Oh why yes, okay, there's so much. It started as
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: a joke and then it turns out the conspiracy theorists.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 7: Love national treasure and you would not believe the things
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 7: I found. God really, okay, I will be purchasing, but yeah, amazing,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 7: I'm around.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: Thank you so thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: And you can find us all the regular places, mostly Instagram,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: and you can follow our or join our Matreon, which
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: is our patreon where for five dollars a month you
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: can get two bonus episodes on a topic, on a
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: very obscure topic of our choosing over yours.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 4: Don't worry, it's not a simulation.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: It's wink.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: This is now. Caitlin does actually have me strapped in
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: a room somewhere. The reason that we have to like
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: have heart outs during our recording is so Kaitlyn can
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: dribble something in my eyeball, so so I don't turn
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: into a husk. Oh God, imagine if if I was
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: a podcaster in the simulation, I would be so pissed off.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: Like if I'm in the simulation, I'd better have a
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: martini and just be day drinking all the time. Truly,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: But yes, you can find us there. Five dollars a
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: month gets you access to two new episodes a month
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: and access two hundreds of back episodes.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: Indeed, and with that we can finally stop worrying darling, Oh,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: thank God, and have a martini.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Bye bye.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: produced by Me, Jamie Loftus and.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: Me Caitlyn Durrante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: Lichtermann and.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever Heard of Them? That's Me?
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: And our logo and merch and all of our artwork
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever heard of Her?
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Oh my God? And our theme song, by the way,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: was composed by Mike Kaplan.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: Iconic and especial thanks to the one and only Aristotle Ascevedo.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 4: For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree, slash
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: Spectelcast