Latest / Gospel Tech with Nathan Sutherland / Talking About P*rn with Our Daughters, an Interview with Kristen Jenson - Part 2

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Talking About P*rn with Our Daughters, an Interview with Kristen Jenson - Part 2 · Gospel Tech with Nathan Sutherland

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Purposely your life, God's purpose.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Listen it purposely dot com. Hey everyone, we're back for
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: part two of a conversation with Kristen Jensen, the author
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: of Good Pictures, Bad Pictures and her newest version of
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: this book, The Guide for Girls. We will continue to
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: discussion on why does this conversation need to happen for girls,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: how is that unique? What does this look like for
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: young people and specifically young women dealing with a conversation
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: about pornography? And then how do we address this From hope,
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: She'll talk about a little bit about her heart behind it,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: and then what we are seeing. I hope that this
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: is an encouraging, equipping conversation with no further ado. Let's
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: jump on in. So we've got to put a ball
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: on that portion of the conversation. We talk about the
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: key messages, the good pictures, the bad pictures, the way
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: we go about equipping them to be present in a
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: difficult situation and to help put the brakes on. How
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: does this book work? I guess from the hope focus
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: rather than from fear. We're not playing whack a mole
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: like you do a very nice job of not like
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: it's big, it's scary, so never look at it because
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: inevitably kid's like, all right, I lived through, Like do
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I just not tell anyone to pretend it didn't happen? Like,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: how do you go about empowering rather than fear mongering
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  Speaker 2: in this convers Well.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I think we just talk about how it affects the
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  Speaker 1: brain and how can become We do talk about how
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  Speaker 1: it can become a bad habit or an addiction. And
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like kids really enjoy that, They really like that,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: they like learning about their brains. So we talk about
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  Speaker 1: the thinking brain and the feeling brain, and so I
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: don't know, that just seems to work because it's just
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: very matter of fact and it doesn't shame the child.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Like I always say, hey, if you've got a robot child,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: you know, just adjust the program, right, you know, But
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: if you've got a biological child, went to be curious,
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  Speaker 1: and the only way you're going to help them control
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  Speaker 1: that curiosity is by creating this internal filter, this disposition
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  Speaker 1: and persuading them. And you know, it's just really really
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: important that we teach children that and they're not caught
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  Speaker 1: off guard. So I love in the Girl's Book, like
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  Speaker 1: you said, we talk about the different. I was in Target. Okay,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I was in Target. Somebody actually wrote me about this
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: and they're like, we found these books and Target and
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: they looked like the cute little country little story like
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: a Hallmark like a Hallmark story in a book. Ye,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: and they showed and then they actually showed the thing.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: They sent us these screenshots. So I went to my
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  Speaker 1: local Target, lo and behold, there it was. It was like,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: you know, some romance that happened in the fall, and
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: it showed this really pretty little farm with pumpkins and
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: you know whatever. It looks so quaint and oh my gosh.
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  Speaker 1: I turned it open. I started. I actually looked at
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  Speaker 1: the screen shot where and I'm like, oh my gosh,
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  Speaker 1: And right there at the end cap, at the checkout
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  Speaker 1: line there was and hoorn, just absolute very explicit sexual descriptions.
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  Speaker 1: So if it's there in Target at the end cap, like,
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  Speaker 1: where else is it going to be? It's just going
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  Speaker 1: to be in.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Your friend's house, like it's gonna be everywhere. That is wild.
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  Speaker 1: So talking about you know, so, I know, I think
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  Speaker 1: I've seen everything, but every once in a while I
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  Speaker 1: even I'm shocked. But like you were talking about, how
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: so you know, we need to kind of like make
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  Speaker 1: this not scary and not shaming. And what I love
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  Speaker 1: about these books is that they show the parent in
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  Speaker 1: this very proactive role and they model that so it
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  Speaker 1: just feels normal. It just feels like, oh, this is
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  Speaker 1: like one more conversation my parent is having with me
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  Speaker 1: about the world that we're growing up in and the
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  Speaker 1: beauties of it, but also some of the problems that
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  Speaker 1: I can avoid. And we do this with all kinds
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  Speaker 1: of other things, and we need to do it with
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  Speaker 1: pornography as well, because, as I mentioned earlier, it is
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  Speaker 1: a number one groomy tool. And I have so many
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  Speaker 1: stories of kids who were able to somebody showing them pornography,
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  Speaker 1: get out of there and tell a parent and be
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  Speaker 1: saved from a very unsafe situation. So it's it's just
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  Speaker 1: there's just not many downsides, you know. I really just
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  Speaker 1: don't see that there are many downsides to empowering your children,
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  Speaker 1: giving them tools, and giving them the ability to come
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  Speaker 1: and talk with you about not only like that they
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  Speaker 1: saw something, but like how it made them feel, because
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  Speaker 1: it can be both exciting and sickening at the same time.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is I mean, any of the research
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  Speaker 2: that actually interviews young people. You get both, right, like, well,
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  Speaker 2: I'm curious and I like like how I feel when
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  Speaker 2: it's happening, but I also hate what I just viewed
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  Speaker 2: and I don't like what it's doing to me, And
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  Speaker 2: like we see time and time again, anytime young viewers
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  Speaker 2: are reflecting on it, like we see both. Which let's
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  Speaker 2: take that. Then let's say we're the other kid on
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  Speaker 2: the bus, the kid who hadn't yet had the conversation.
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  Speaker 2: Does this work for that child? Like that, I already
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  Speaker 2: saw it. I was intrigued. I didn't look away and
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  Speaker 2: tell them an adult. I'm the two girls in the
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  Speaker 2: front lawn who three months later like, does this work
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  Speaker 2: for that kid?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah? Sure, because now they can put in context their experience.
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  Speaker 1: And we have a lot of experiences that we don't understand,
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  Speaker 1: and then at some point we learned something and we're like, oh, okay,
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  Speaker 1: now I'm going to do that better, right, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: all of us do that. I'm still doing that at
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  Speaker 1: my age, you know. So I think that there's never
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  Speaker 1: a time when you can't give your kids a defense
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  Speaker 1: against pornography, even if they've kind of been pulled into it.
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  Speaker 1: That's why you know, we used to be protect young minds,
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  Speaker 1: and we change it to defend young minds. Because when
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: you say defend, you know there's a known enemy and
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  Speaker 1: we just love that word. And we need to give
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  Speaker 1: our kids digital defense skills because we're never going to
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  Speaker 1: be able to, like you just said, with a peloton,
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  Speaker 1: I'm like it. And and feature creep with these apps.
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  Speaker 1: You know, you get an app and you say, okay,
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  Speaker 1: I think you can use it, and then you know,
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  Speaker 1: unbeknownst to you, they change the features and now other
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  Speaker 1: people can chat yeah yes, yeah, or people can talk
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  Speaker 1: to them through the app perfect strangers. So these are
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  Speaker 1: things that it's very difficult to keep up on. But
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  Speaker 1: if you have regular talks with your children about technology,
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  Speaker 1: like you are teaching, that is so empowered for children.
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  Speaker 1: And I just want to touch on there was some
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  Speaker 1: research that showed that kids college kids whose parents had
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  Speaker 1: talked to them about pornography were much less likely to
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  Speaker 1: be involved with it than those who had never their
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  Speaker 1: parents never broach the topic. And the other thing I
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  Speaker 1: wanted to mention was I gave a couple of years ago,
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  Speaker 1: actually I gave a presentation at a national what was
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  Speaker 1: a global summit on sexual exploitation, and I talked about
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  Speaker 1: all the research now that's coming out that shows that
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  Speaker 1: pornography really hurts a child's and an adult's mental health,
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  Speaker 1: just increased incidents of depression, anxiety, all kinds of issues,
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  Speaker 1: and even suicides. So if we want to protect our
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  Speaker 1: children's mental health, we also want to give them a
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  Speaker 1: defense against pornography.
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  Speaker 2: I love that. So we are talking about something that
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  Speaker 2: not only we know is incredibly relevant for parents and
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  Speaker 2: grandparents and caregivers of young people, but as pertinent to
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  Speaker 2: those children both in their development and then their long
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  Speaker 2: term mental and physical well being. So at the end
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  Speaker 2: of or I guess processing through the conversation with Guide
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  Speaker 2: for Girls on Good Pictures Bad Pictures, you talk about
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  Speaker 2: that can do process. Would you speak to that just
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  Speaker 2: a minute, for just a moment and talk about what
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  Speaker 2: that does to empower girls to actually enact these lessons,
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  Speaker 2: whether they've seen it already or this is a purely
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  Speaker 2: preventive relational measure. What does the can do do for
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  Speaker 2: these young women?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it takes some of the shame out of it.
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  Speaker 1: First of all, girls, I'll tell you, girls feel more
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  Speaker 1: shame when they're interested in these things because culturally, we
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  Speaker 1: have this myth that girls are not supposed to be
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  Speaker 1: interested in sex. And I'll tell you, when I was
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  Speaker 1: a teenager, I got that message too, and I was like,
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  Speaker 1: something's wrong with me because I am interested. You know.
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  Speaker 1: Luckily I didn't have a lot of resources to look
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  Speaker 1: at pornography. But the so and then girls, so they
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  Speaker 1: have more shameing. So this helps to lower the shame
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  Speaker 1: because forty four percent, according to a barn study, forty
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  Speaker 1: four percent of women in the United States consume pornography
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  Speaker 1: or report that they can. That's a problem because the
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  Speaker 1: other thing that the studies show is that girls bear
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  Speaker 1: the brunt. Women bear the brunt of actually the really
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  Speaker 1: negative consequences. So girls with the self esteem, the body issues,
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  Speaker 1: the can do plan just gives them an action plan,
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  Speaker 1: you know. It helps them know the first three, you know,
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  Speaker 1: help them know what to do immediately upon being exposed.
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  Speaker 1: And then the second part of the due part is
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  Speaker 1: really what to do when those images and memories pop up,
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  Speaker 1: and how to create a neuropathway away from that those images.
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  Speaker 1: And you know what, Nathan, it works not only for pornography,
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  Speaker 1: but for any kind of disturbing or upsetting content that
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  Speaker 1: they may read about our witness and so they can do.
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  Speaker 1: Plan really is the final piece of that, the whole book.
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  Speaker 1: It's hard to take it just alone, but it builds
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  Speaker 1: a plan, a protective pan plan for children, and it
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  Speaker 1: works for adults as well, and so adults in recovery
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  Speaker 1: can also use this plan. And it's all just very
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  Speaker 1: helpful and based on research.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love that because it is like, especially
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  Speaker 2: as so our audience is Christians were thinking like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I've been made new, so like this shouldn't be a
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  Speaker 2: problem for me anymore. And folks like, yeah, you got
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  Speaker 2: a new spirit, but your body's still broken, like you've
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  Speaker 2: got some ruts from habits in the past. And I
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  Speaker 2: think letting our kids know that too. Yes, that's why
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  Speaker 2: we're concerned about this. Like read any of the books
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  Speaker 2: Dopamine Nation or The Brain That Changes Itself, or like
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  Speaker 2: any book that talks about addiction, and then it will
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  Speaker 2: always come to sex and pornography at some point, and
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  Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, like you can be free from these
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  Speaker 2: old ways. You're not, you don't have to do it,
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  Speaker 2: but you also are more sensitive to it. And that
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  Speaker 2: idea is the due part of like, how do we
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  Speaker 2: reset our brain and refocus our attention deliberately as an
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  Speaker 2: active choice. We can't stop ourselves from reacting to the trigger,
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  Speaker 2: but we can stop ourselves from acting on parents as
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  Speaker 2: we strive to raise kids who love God and use tech.
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  Speaker 2: It's intimidating to look at this next stage of life
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: and think about what academics may look like for them.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: When you're thinking about college, considered George Fox University for
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: your children because of three things. First, it's going to
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: give you a more intimate, known environment where they have
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: a focus on being known personally, academically and spiritually. Your
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: child will grow in their faith. Ninety three percent of
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: undergrad students at George Fox last year through the twenty
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: twenty five academic year said that being at George Fox
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: has helped them grow in their relationship with Jesus. We
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: also want them to grow academically, which means being a
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: part of the university with rigorous academic standards and opportunities
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: to be engaged. They have a nationally recognized engineering, nursing,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: and education programs, as well as chances to study abroad
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: here within the US and then internationally and finally personally
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: to be part of a vibrant campus atmosphere where you
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: can play intramural sports or part of their NCAA Division
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: three athletic programs with twenty three sports available. The goal
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: here is to go to a place that's going to
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: support your goals, not try to make you support theirs,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: to have that goal be to raise you up to
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: be all God's called you to be, and to truly
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: equip your young person with in my case my sons
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: or my daughter, to love God and then from their
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: love of God, to go wherever God has called them,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: and that includes being equipped with a degree that'll help
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: them do that, to be missionally equipped to love and
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: serve others, to lead where God has planned demand, to
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: know the Gospel for themselves and be able to share
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: it with others. So George Fox University is an amazing
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: resource for our kids, for our community here in the Northwest,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: and for anyone who's looking to raise up a young
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: person who we can love God from that love others.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: To kind of close this conversation than Kristin, and again
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: we're talking to Kristin Jensen, author of Good Pictures, Bad Pictures,
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  Speaker 2: A Guide for Girls, just came out this year in
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  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. What I in closing notes, I just
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  Speaker 2: want to kind of reflect on the girl aspect of
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  Speaker 2: this conversation. You mentioned why it's specific for girls, What
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  Speaker 2: there is unique about both their struggle with it socially,
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  Speaker 2: the shame that comes up with both viewing it and
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: discussing it, and then the way they bear the brunt
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  Speaker 2: of most of the negative parts of what pornography does
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  Speaker 2: culturally and personally. How can we if we're to put
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: this conversation in nutshell, what can we do as parents
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: or as caregivers, as loving mentors or adults teachers? What
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: can we do to support young women in this conversation
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: about good pictures, bad pictures, and their place in a
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  Speaker 2: digital society.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, we can realize that girls are not born with
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  Speaker 1: an immunity to curiosity about sexual things. It is jettison
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  Speaker 1: that idea. Okay, we can prepare them, talk to them
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  Speaker 1: and help them understand that we care, because they can
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  Speaker 1: be more vulnerable than boys, even because nobody thinks to
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  Speaker 1: put any filters on the phone, and they give them
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  Speaker 1: social media when they're twelve and all these things or
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: even younger. Oh so, and there's just so much porn
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  Speaker 1: in social media. So I think that for girls, as
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  Speaker 1: we talk to them, they're going to grow up more confident.
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  Speaker 1: They're going to grow up safer, sparter, and more confident
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  Speaker 1: because they will have seen what pornography teaches, the negative
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  Speaker 1: toxic messages that it teaches girls about who they are.
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  Speaker 1: You know, a girl, a woman is more than her body,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: right it. She is just like every other human. She
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: has her personality, her talents, her character. These are just
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: as important or more more important than her outside appearance.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying girls shouldn't try to look pretty.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I got makeup on today, right, I got
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: your rings on. You know, I'm trying to look as
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: best I can. But but that's if that's all I
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: worried about. And their studies that show the girls that
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: just really focus on their appearance, actually they have their
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: development is delayed in other aspects, like their normal childhood
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: development is delayed and a lot of other like non
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: sexual things that kids need to learn when they're so
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: focused on their appearance and their hotness and whatever. So
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: it's really important for their development that we have these
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: conversations with them and to be like, you know, we
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: understand that this can be this could be hard. And
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: girls get into pornography often differently than boys. They get
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: in through the stories because girls love stories about relationships.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Young adult books are just filled with, unfortunately with some
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: explicit material. I have a friend that is a writer
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: and she writes young adult fiction, and she wrote a
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: book and the publisher she was published by, a you know,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: mainstream publisher, said we got to get more sex in
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: this book. And she's like, no, no, we don't. And
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: she really had to give pushback to say, no, I'm
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: not going to do that, that's not necessary. So really
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: got to be careful. I once saw a book that
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: my daughter had brought home from high school. I think
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: she was maybe in the tenth grade, right, and she
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: brought a book from the high school library and it
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: was a sci fi book. She's really into like super
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: scientist goal and really into sci fi. And but I
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: looked at the back of the book and it said
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: something about erotic and I'm like, oh, and I said,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I said, you know. And so I wasn't like, you
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: cannot read this book. Let me take this book. I'm
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: throwing it in the garbage. No, I just said, you know,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: and so I just had a conversation with her about it,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I want you to consider
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: maybe not finishing this book. And she goes, oh, but
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the plot or this or that, And ultimately she made
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: the right decision. But I didn't at that age. You
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: know what you really need to like just persuade them.
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  Speaker 1: But I remember even like books for younger kids having
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: so you really kind of have to be careful about
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: what they're reading. But girls, if they can see the
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: toxic messages not only about their bodies, but how they're objectified,
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  Speaker 1: and how they learn to objectify not only other people
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: but themselves when they look at pornography, because it's a
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: very powerful teaching tool. And so I think with girls,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: we're just loving them, We're just giving them what they
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: need to survive with their mental health intact in this
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: digital world.
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  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for making these resources so we can
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: be a part of that journey of raising these young
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: people to see just how value will they are and
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: to see what a healthy person unhealthy life looks like.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you again, Kristen. So again, this is Kristen Jensen,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: author of Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, A Guide for Girls.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Kristen where else can people find your resources. We're going
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: to put links in the show notes, but what where
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: else can people find them if they're going to looking
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: on their own.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So defend Youngminds dot com has free guides to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: download articles that we you know, to keep current with
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: everything that's happening out there, and I'm sure you also
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: do that. And then our social media, so please follow
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Facebook Defend your Minds, and we
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: put out a lot of great content. We do collaborations
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: with other parenting influencers and also you know experts, law enforcement,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, follow us on our
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook. I mean we're also on x and others,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: but like those are our two main ones and we really,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know, that's just our outreach. I want to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: give back. I want to hold a parent's hand a
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: little bit. I want to give them some specific tools
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: that will really help them begin these conversations. Like the
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: book itself is not going to do all the just
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: it gets you started. It gives your kids the vocabulary
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: and the words and the understanding of how the brain works.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: So I'm just so grateful to be able to do
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: this work.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Well, that's amazing and everyone. Obviously, the book is available
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: through Amazon or you can go to Defendingminds dot com
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: and check that out as well. Thank you again for
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: being here with us, Kristen, thank you all for being
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: a part of this conversation. If it was helpful for you,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: would you go ahead and share it with a friend?
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Would you help others learn about this conversation so that
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: they can hear about resources that people are making that
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: help us equip young people in families to use the
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: best tech well, to love God from that love of
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: God to use tech. What this does is it opens
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: the conversation and allows our children to say, yes, here's
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: where I have struggled or where I've been harmed, and
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: here is where these conversations have prepared me or will
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: prepare me in the future. If I hadn't heard yet.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: There's no child who's too far gone, there's no parent
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: who's been so bad that this isn't a worthwhile conversation
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: and having, so please do begin having those conversations in
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: love and in hope, and I hope this equips you
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: to do what you want to do well, which is
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: parent and to raise your kids up in the way
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: they should go. If you have any questions, you can
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: reach out to me, Nathan at gospeltech dot net. You
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: can find our resources on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube that
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Love God Use Tech and you can join us next
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: week as we continue this conversation about how we can
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: love God and use tech