Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / The Thing (1982) - John Carpenter | Houselights #296

Transcript

The Thing (1982) - John Carpenter | Houselights #296 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Nerd Party.
0:21
Speaker 2: Welcome to House Lights. Second episode for House of Carpenter.
0:26
Speaker 2: Looking at John Carpenter's The Thing. I'm going to hide
0:31
Speaker 2: this podcast when I'm finished. If none of us make it,
0:35
Speaker 2: at least there'll be some kind of record. Darren's robot-making
0:39
Speaker 2: machine has been running loud now for 48 hours. We
0:43
Speaker 2: still don't have a new robot. One other thing. I
0:48
Speaker 2: think Tristan ripped through his clothes setting up his microphone.
0:52
Speaker 2: Darren found some shredded long johns, but the name tag
0:55
Speaker 2: was missing. They could be anybody's except for the scarf.
1:04
Speaker 2: Nobody trusts anybody now, and we're all very, very tired
1:07
Speaker 2: from podcasting. Nothing else I can do, just wait. John Mills,
1:15
Speaker 2: podcast co-host, House Lights, number 296.
1:21
Speaker 3: And we are here to talk about John Carpenter's 1982 film,
1:25
Speaker 3: The Thing, released only one year after... escaped from New York,
1:32
Speaker 3: the thing burst onto the scene and was a wild,
1:36
Speaker 3: wild success in a different timeline that did not encounter E.T.,
1:40
Speaker 3: proving that audiences wanted their aliens to be nice and lovable.
1:45
Speaker 3: I am, of course, John Mills, and I am pleased
1:48
Speaker 3: to be discussing this landmark film from the 80s, which
1:51
Speaker 3: has been referenced nine ways from Sunday in every type
1:55
Speaker 3: of media. Here to discuss it with Darren Moser and
1:57
Speaker 3: Tristan Riddell. Guys, I'm not going to lie. I saw
2:03
Speaker 3: this film on TV the first time I saw it
2:08
Speaker 3: in 1986, I think, was when it was first aired
2:11
Speaker 3: on TV. I happened to cross it. There's one scene
2:14
Speaker 3: in particular that I, you know, it was broadcast TV.
2:18
Speaker 3: So I happened to cross it at this one scene
2:20
Speaker 3: as opposed to seeing the whole thing. And I couldn't
2:23
Speaker 3: turn it off afterward. And that's what it's been with
2:26
Speaker 3: me ever since. Obviously, we always love to talk about
2:29
Speaker 3: the first time we encountered a movie. But here we are.
2:32
Speaker 3: Let me set the stage. This is the second movie
2:34
Speaker 3: we're talking about from Carpenter. We're a few films into
2:37
Speaker 3: his filmography. This is his big at bat. This is
2:41
Speaker 3: the potential big time, no longer really low budget, you know, $ 210, 000
2:48
Speaker 3: horror movie sort of thing going on here. Steps into
2:52
Speaker 3: the big ring. Big spotlight on him this time. Darren,
2:55
Speaker 3: when was your first time encountering John Carpenter's The Thing?
3:00
Speaker 4: I've been trying to remember because it's one of those
3:04
Speaker 4: movies that becomes so ubiquitous in your memory that sometimes
3:08
Speaker 4: it's hard to have a before and an after time.
3:11
Speaker 4: But I'm pretty sure this was a film student in
3:14
Speaker 4: college era, like where either we're pulling it from Blockbuster
3:20
Speaker 4: or someone had a copy of And it's just one
3:24
Speaker 4: of those seasonal movies, too. Like, I love watching this
3:27
Speaker 4: around spooky season, you know, October, November. So probably, yeah,
3:32
Speaker 4: it would have been around then. But it's it's one
3:36
Speaker 4: of those that as it's been discussed and digested over
3:41
Speaker 4: the years, especially about who who is a thing, you know,
3:45
Speaker 4: who's still a thing.
3:46
Speaker 5: It's just one of those fun movies to talk about.
3:49
Speaker 4: Like a, like tenant or, or something else that's high
3:52
Speaker 4: concept sci-fi where it's more enjoyable or not more enjoyable,
3:57
Speaker 4: just enjoyable to rewatch, to revisit.
4:00
Speaker 5: Uh, so I'm going to place it.
4:02
Speaker 4: Yeah.
4:02
Speaker 5: Kind of college era.
4:03
Speaker 3: Tristan, did you encounter it at the same time or
4:05
Speaker 3: was this, uh, a family favorite and your dad had
4:09
Speaker 3: that fast forward button ready. And so the movie was
4:11
Speaker 3: about 30 seconds long for you.
4:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, it was basically the, uh, we couldn't
4:16
Speaker 1: even see the intro because we can't handle violence towards animals.
4:20
Speaker 1: And so it was, it was pretty much just Keith
4:22
Speaker 1: David and Kurt Russell at the end in the destruction.
4:26
Speaker 1: And I'm like, wow, that looks like a wild, wild ride.
4:30
Speaker 3: And you wrote a whole different movie in your head.
4:32
Speaker 3: And then when you sat down and you watch it,
4:33
Speaker 3: you were like, what the hell is this going on
4:35
Speaker 3: with the space aliens? Oh, this is two buddies having
4:37
Speaker 3: a drink in the snow.
4:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, this is, this is something that I avoided
4:41
Speaker 1: for a very long time. I don't, I cannot remember
4:43
Speaker 1: if it was for a specific reason other than the
4:47
Speaker 1: body horror aspect. Cause I, I don't dig on body
4:50
Speaker 1: horror whatsoever, but I think because how do I think
4:54
Speaker 1: because this wasn't real body horror, like this isn't like saw,
4:59
Speaker 1: you know, where like an, a person is actually being
5:03
Speaker 1: like having their leg talked, taken off or something like
5:05
Speaker 1: that like no this is an alien just like in
5:07
Speaker 1: a weird genetic form and like in a malformed pseudo
5:11
Speaker 1: human body like it's not actually someone going through the
5:15
Speaker 1: torture of why do I have an arm growing out
5:18
Speaker 1: of my forehead you know like it's nothing like that
5:21
Speaker 1: and so once I realized that that's when actually it
5:24
Speaker 1: was I think it was maybe 10 years ago maybe
5:26
Speaker 1: a little less where this was the first part podcast
5:31
Speaker 1: that I started on my own was with Matt Hanson
5:34
Speaker 1: And he this is one of his favorite movies. And
5:37
Speaker 1: so as you got to watch it, you got to
5:39
Speaker 1: watch it. And so I sat down with my wife
5:41
Speaker 1: and we started watching it. And we got to the
5:43
Speaker 1: dog scene where the dog turned into like, you know,
5:46
Speaker 1: started going crazy in the pen. And that's when we're like, nope, disgusting.
5:50
Speaker 5: His face splays open like a flower. And you're like, oh, OK.
5:55
Speaker 1: And so I immediately turn it off and I start
5:59
Speaker 1: texting Matt like jokingly. Like, I can't believe you recommended this.
6:02
Speaker 1: This is garbage and everything like that. But my sarcasm
6:05
Speaker 1: did not like translate via text. And he was super
6:08
Speaker 1: pissed at me. He said, he's like, he's like, he's like,
6:10
Speaker 1: give me a little grace, man. You don't need to
6:12
Speaker 1: blame me for having a bad time. You know, it's
6:13
Speaker 1: just like, I was like, dude, hey, whoa, sorry. Just joking.
6:18
Speaker 1: So I hadn't seen it since then. And so in
6:19
Speaker 1: preparation for this podcast episode, It was the first real
6:23
Speaker 1: time that I watched it from beginning to end. And
6:26
Speaker 1: my wife and I have seen a lot more horror
6:29
Speaker 1: since then, like in the past decade, like we've seen
6:31
Speaker 1: a lot more. And so watching it this time was
6:34
Speaker 1: just kind of like, oh, gross. And then moved on
6:37
Speaker 1: to the next thing.
6:37
Speaker 3: Well, one of the things, of course, with the horror
6:40
Speaker 3: aspect of it and the, you know, the monster itself
6:44
Speaker 3: and how it changes shape and the sort of horrifying
6:47
Speaker 3: moments around that, you know, you have some legendary scenes.
6:52
Speaker 3: practical effects work going on here. Rob Bottin's team is
6:55
Speaker 3: hard at work with all of the creature effects and
6:58
Speaker 3: everything like that. So my question to you, Darren, you're
7:02
Speaker 3: a creator and all of those sorts of things. You're
7:04
Speaker 3: a maker. How do the effects hold up? Because it's
7:08
Speaker 3: very easy for a heavy practical effects monster movie from
7:11
Speaker 3: 50 years ago For somebody to come back and be like, yeah,
7:14
Speaker 3: I got to give this a lot of grace here
7:16
Speaker 3: and there. Do you think that things hold up? Does
7:18
Speaker 3: it does the artifice of it still translate to great
7:22
Speaker 3: effects for you?
7:23
Speaker 5: Definitely.
7:24
Speaker 4: I think this is one of those movies where it's
7:26
Speaker 4: staying just on the right side of the uncanny valley,
7:30
Speaker 4: where it's obviously an effect. But the fact that it's real,
7:33
Speaker 4: the fact that it was made in a time when
7:36
Speaker 4: there isn't CG, the CG we see.
7:38
Speaker 5: Is the, you know, the microscope microscope.
7:42
Speaker 4: Lab specimen right of little text cards as you know
7:46
Speaker 4: blood cells move around that's it so yeah and yeah
7:49
Speaker 4: are there shots where you're like that looks like that
7:53
Speaker 4: was the best take they could get and they probably
7:55
Speaker 4: would have wanted to do one more i'm thinking the
7:59
Speaker 4: the spider head that looks like it's pulled on a
8:02
Speaker 4: string and it's kind.
8:03
Speaker 3: Of wiggling oh no no that's That's straight horror material
8:07
Speaker 3: for me. And that possibly, if we go back in time,
8:10
Speaker 3: that might be the moment that made me afraid of
8:12
Speaker 3: spiders for the rest of my life. Like I'm still
8:14
Speaker 3: terrified of spiders and I still see that scene and
8:17
Speaker 3: I want to pass out when it happens. I'm like, oh,
8:20
Speaker 3: this is the worst horror I've ever seen in my life.
8:22
Speaker 3: So I'll throw a flag on the spider thing.
8:25
Speaker 4: All around though, it's a great creature feature really for
8:30
Speaker 4: what it is. And I think I just looked to,
8:34
Speaker 4: I don't remember when it was made, but more recently,
8:37
Speaker 4: I know there was a team that made a follow-up
8:40
Speaker 4: like prequel that told the story of the Norwegian team
8:45
Speaker 4: and all of that, that unfortunately, well, fortunately they.
8:49
Speaker 5: Were wanting to homage.
8:50
Speaker 4: This and go with an eighties look of special effects
8:53
Speaker 4: and practicality. Unfortunately, the executives overwrote that with bad CGI.
9:00
Speaker 5: Plastered on top of it and Surprise, surprise, that did
9:03
Speaker 5: not do as well.
9:04
Speaker 4: But that gave me the clarity of, okay, here's something
9:10
Speaker 4: that was made very modernly and it didn't work, even
9:13
Speaker 4: though it's trying for basically the exact same type of story.
9:17
Speaker 4: because it wasn't shown in that visible sensibility of the
9:21
Speaker 4: 80s and what the effects could do. So I really
9:25
Speaker 4: enjoy it.
9:25
Speaker 1: When you said that this was just a year after
9:28
Speaker 1: Escape from New York, my mind kind of broke a
9:31
Speaker 1: little bit. I was like, no, that's not possible. That's
9:33
Speaker 1: not possible. Because it looks so much more advanced from
9:39
Speaker 1: the film stock they used, from the props to the set. Now, granted, Granted,
9:46
Speaker 1: we got to give them a lot of grace here
9:48
Speaker 1: because with Escape from New York, I mean, you had
9:52
Speaker 1: way more ambitious cinematography and production design locations and everything
9:59
Speaker 1: like that. Like, with this movie, this is a very
10:02
Speaker 1: isolated story. This is a very isolated location. You have, like,
10:06
Speaker 1: you know, like, three areas that you really need to
10:08
Speaker 1: focus on. Like, the inside, the outside, and then the
10:12
Speaker 1: Norwegian camp.
10:14
Speaker 2: And.
10:15
Speaker 1: So you were able to throw all of your effort
10:17
Speaker 1: and all your money into that. And so you were
10:18
Speaker 1: able to really build it up. So I'm not knocking
10:20
Speaker 1: either movie. It's just the way that it was utilized,
10:24
Speaker 1: the way that the budget was utilized, and the way
10:27
Speaker 1: that everyone performed. I mean, everybody from the editor to
10:32
Speaker 1: the production designer to the prop master to cinematography, everything
10:38
Speaker 1: was just really next up level, to the next level
10:43
Speaker 1: from Escape from New York. I think, visually.
10:46
Speaker 3: So you see, you would say, you've seen Escape from
10:49
Speaker 3: New York and now this, this is your first full,
10:51
Speaker 3: you know, watch through of it. Do you see a
10:55
Speaker 3: director develop a lot in a short amount of time?
10:58
Speaker 3: So you're giving a lot of credit to Carpenter. You're
11:00
Speaker 3: saying like, it shows that he really brought his a
11:03
Speaker 3: game here. Like he's, he took all of the tricks
11:05
Speaker 3: he learned before and they're all at play here.
11:07
Speaker 1: I should have, I should have specified and give her
11:09
Speaker 1: the credit up front because like when I was praising
11:11
Speaker 1: all those other people is because yeah, carpenter bring brought
11:14
Speaker 1: all of those people together. Carpenter is the one who
11:16
Speaker 1: is directing everyone and everything in order to put it
11:19
Speaker 1: into place. And you can really tell, I mean like it,
11:24
Speaker 1: if you were to say that escape from New York
11:26
Speaker 1: was his freshman outing, which obviously it wasn't, I'm not
11:29
Speaker 1: saying it was, I mean, there was tons previously, but
11:31
Speaker 1: if you were, if you were jumping from freshman to sophomore,
11:35
Speaker 1: like it's almost like freshman to senior, like that kind
11:38
Speaker 1: of gap in, in, I should not say gap, but
11:41
Speaker 1: like that kind of progress. And, uh, yeah, I was,
11:44
Speaker 1: I was blown away at how improved everything was across
11:48
Speaker 1: the board.
11:49
Speaker 3: Well, this is also Carpenter. He doesn't do the score here.
11:53
Speaker 3: So Darren, we talked about how Carpenter writes, produces, directs,
12:00
Speaker 3: does his own music. This time he has a screenwriter
12:03
Speaker 3: working for him. He has the legendary Ennio Morricone doing
12:08
Speaker 3: the score for him. But my question for you with
12:10
Speaker 3: the score is, is when you were, when you listened
12:13
Speaker 3: to it, go back maybe to the first time. Is
12:15
Speaker 3: there anything about it that makes you think it's not
12:17
Speaker 3: a John Carpenter score? What sets us apart from just,
12:22
Speaker 3: you know, quote unquote, just another John Carpenter score? Where
12:24
Speaker 3: do you see this? Where do you hear this being different?
12:28
Speaker 1: Instruments. I'm sorry. I know you asked Darren, but I
12:30
Speaker 1: just wanted to get that in there.
12:31
Speaker 3: That's fair enough. That's fair enough. Darren, do you have
12:33
Speaker 3: the same answer as Tristan who walked all over your answer?
12:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, for the score, it's interesting because it still feels
12:41
Speaker 4: like a John Carpenter movie score.
12:44
Speaker 5: It's not such a distance, but it definitely.
12:48
Speaker 4: I don't know, there was something about certain tones that
12:52
Speaker 4: Carpenter used, synth tones in the 80s that are so magnetic.
12:59
Speaker 5: To what he produces.
13:01
Speaker 4: So It definitely, I can tell it's not composed by Carpenter,
13:06
Speaker 4: but definitely given his guiding hand. I think the other
13:10
Speaker 4: aspect is it almost kind of feels more like a
13:13
Speaker 4: Predator score. Like it feels kind of like, not that
13:18
Speaker 4: it has the militaristic motion, but it's in that alien.
13:25
Speaker 4: And I mean, the movie Alien, not the, you know, right. Genre,
13:30
Speaker 4: you know, Alien, Predator. It's that early 80s. It feels
13:36
Speaker 4: more placed in its decade than placed in a Carpenter movie.
13:39
Speaker 4: You know, it doesn't surprise me. If you put this on,
13:42
Speaker 4: I'd be like, I could almost point you to the
13:43
Speaker 4: half decade it's from. So, yeah, but in that case,
13:49
Speaker 4: I mean, gosh, he had enough on his plate, especially
13:51
Speaker 4: with a special effects heavy movie. I don't begrudge him
13:56
Speaker 4: not doing the score in this.
13:57
Speaker 3: Well, just as a side note, some of the unused
14:01
Speaker 3: tracks from the thing were, if I recall correctly, used
14:06
Speaker 3: one track at least was used in the hateful eight
14:08
Speaker 3: by Tarantino as a tribute to, to this film, which,
14:13
Speaker 3: you know, a bunch of people trapped in the snow
14:15
Speaker 3: in that one too. Go figure. But Tristan is, I would,
14:19
Speaker 3: you know, to, to go along with what Darren's saying, let,
14:22
Speaker 3: let me throw to you. Do you think that it's
14:24
Speaker 3: the layering of the sound that really sets it apart
14:26
Speaker 3: from a typical car, like a typical Carpenter score being
14:30
Speaker 3: very simple, very, you know, one instrument at a time.
14:34
Speaker 3: There's more layering going on here.
14:36
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if you can really compare
14:40
Speaker 1: the two composers. And I don't mean that as a
14:43
Speaker 1: knock to, to Carpenter, but if I had, Carpenter's score,
14:51
Speaker 1: especially Halloween, is iconic. Absolutely iconic. It's one of the
14:57
Speaker 1: most recognizable horror themes of all time. He has that.
15:00
Speaker 1: It's a feather in his cap. But when it goes
15:03
Speaker 1: to things outside of themes, outside of something thematic, when
15:08
Speaker 1: you want to develop an engaging... substance. That's not just tone.
15:17
Speaker 1: I think you go with the, I forgot his name,
15:20
Speaker 1: the composer of, um, of the thing.
15:22
Speaker 3: Ennio Morricone.
15:23
Speaker 1: Morricone. Thank you. Morricone. Um, I, I knew I was
15:25
Speaker 1: going to pronounce it wrong. Like when you, when you
15:28
Speaker 1: want someone who has, who can make use of an
15:30
Speaker 1: orchestra or make use of multiple instruments and really, uh,
15:34
Speaker 1: develop an, uh, something that's beyond atmosphere, but also brings
15:38
Speaker 1: in intrigue and layers and, um, a little bit of
15:45
Speaker 1: a playfulness that underlies what's going on, you go with, yeah,
15:50
Speaker 1: you go with Mary Quinney. But if you want something
15:52
Speaker 1: that's just kind of in your face and tells you
15:56
Speaker 1: how to feel, you go with Carpenter. And there is
15:58
Speaker 1: a time and place for that. But I mean, we're
16:01
Speaker 1: talking about two different ball games here.
16:03
Speaker 3: So, you know, with all of these things where we
16:07
Speaker 3: have a slightly bigger budget, we have more studio involvement
16:10
Speaker 3: with this. And I'm going to skip right to this part.
16:12
Speaker 3: We'll back track for other stuff, but the ending was
16:16
Speaker 3: a very bitter pill for the studio suits to swallow.
16:20
Speaker 3: There were alternate endings filmed. There were fights about test
16:23
Speaker 3: audiences and campaigns this way and that. The legendary Verna
16:28
Speaker 3: Fields was brought in to streamline the ending as well,
16:32
Speaker 3: to give it a little more clarity. Darren, can you
16:36
Speaker 3: see this film working as well as it does? We
16:40
Speaker 3: still don't know what each other's ratings are, but however
16:43
Speaker 3: well you think it works, do you think a different
16:46
Speaker 3: ending would have worked as well as the ending we
16:49
Speaker 3: got with this?
16:50
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess, what are my options?
16:52
Speaker 4: Like, are you saying a different ending as in, we
16:55
Speaker 4: see everybody die, we see.
16:57
Speaker 5: Oh, no.
16:59
Speaker 3: On the table, there was an ending where Childs was
17:08
Speaker 3: removed and MacReady was left alone. There was one where MacReady...
17:13
Speaker 3: was rescued and given a blood test. The Universal executives
17:19
Speaker 3: wanted the monster to be killed with a big orchestral
17:24
Speaker 3: swell as, you know, MacReady kills the monster once and
17:27
Speaker 3: for all. They tested three different endings. The original, the
17:33
Speaker 3: ending that we have, the one without Childs, and then
17:37
Speaker 3: there was the third one that they tried that was
17:40
Speaker 3: a little rougher. So, I mean, basically, do you see
17:44
Speaker 3: anything different working here? I mean, you know, other than
17:48
Speaker 3: the ambiguity at the end of what does the future
17:50
Speaker 3: look like from here?
17:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really hard to say because the ending, I mean,
17:59
Speaker 4: we've talked many times about many movies on if they
18:02
Speaker 4: stick the landing, like it really determines your enjoyment of
18:07
Speaker 4: the movie. Like a movie, we can give a lot
18:10
Speaker 4: of leeway to a lot of, okay, writing, but if
18:14
Speaker 4: the landing is stuck, it really makes a difference. So,
18:17
Speaker 4: I mean, I can see, yeah, definitely them trying to
18:21
Speaker 4: find the best possible one, but that's where it really
18:24
Speaker 4: kind of comes back to vision. Like whose vision is this?
18:27
Speaker 4: Who's really trying to tell this story? Because I think
18:31
Speaker 4: the current ending is a great ending. And And I'm
18:35
Speaker 4: fine with it being ambiguous as far as what happens
18:38
Speaker 4: once it fades to black. Like we don't know. That's
18:40
Speaker 4: why I think most of us talk about this movie
18:43
Speaker 4: or bring it up, but I don't know. I feel
18:46
Speaker 4: like the worst ending would have been the helicopter rescue
18:51
Speaker 4: in my gut. Like that's too, you've spent so much
18:55
Speaker 4: time in this movie of not trusting of, because that
19:00
Speaker 4: really half of this movie is the alien and the,
19:04
Speaker 4: And the craziness of the situation. The other half is
19:06
Speaker 4: the psychological. Like, that's really interesting. The isolation and the
19:11
Speaker 4: who can you trust and not trust. And those scenes
19:14
Speaker 4: are the most powerful. So to bring that to a
19:18
Speaker 4: nice bow on it ending where, you know, the military
19:22
Speaker 4: or whoever shows up and and we're all good. I
19:26
Speaker 4: just it that's not this is not that kind of movie.
19:31
Speaker 4: I cannot imagine that working as a better ending. So
19:34
Speaker 4: I can see why it was considered and then discarded.
19:37
Speaker 4: I'm I'm sure I'm actually kind of curious who won out,
19:40
Speaker 4: you know, to push this ending that we got.
19:43
Speaker 3: Well, test audiences didn't really react well too much. You know,
19:48
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a movie that legend. couldn't find
19:51
Speaker 3: its audience at the time. And I think, Tristan, correct
19:54
Speaker 3: me if I'm wrong, Blade Runner came out the same year, 82, right? Yep.
19:58
Speaker 3: And so I would just argue people in the early
20:01
Speaker 3: 80s just didn't know how good they had it. So
20:03
Speaker 3: we'll leave it at that. But Tristan, this is your
20:05
Speaker 3: first time watching it all the way through. Do you
20:07
Speaker 3: see a different, less ambiguous ending working better for the film?
20:12
Speaker 3: Or does the ambiguity play into the film better?
20:15
Speaker 1: I think this is one of those things where I
20:17
Speaker 1: think a lot of different things could technically work. I'm
20:22
Speaker 1: with Darren where, you know, the happy ending. Well, you know,
20:27
Speaker 1: I would have accepted the happy ending. Not because I
20:29
Speaker 1: wanted it, but because if it was there, I'd be like, okay,
20:33
Speaker 1: all right. You know, somebody got away. You know, the
20:34
Speaker 1: highest paid actor got away. That's cool.
20:37
Speaker 2: Right.
20:39
Speaker 3: But not the future president.
20:43
Speaker 1: Man, it was so funny seeing so many different people
20:46
Speaker 1: so young.
20:47
Speaker 3: Yes.
20:48
Speaker 1: It was so crazy seeing everybody with super smooth faces.
20:52
Speaker 1: But if this movie was made today, Kurt Russell would
20:55
Speaker 1: have gotten away.
20:56
Speaker 3: Oh, yes.
20:57
Speaker 1: No, but he would have been an alien.
21:02
Speaker 3: And he, Oh, you're talking like, uh, like the Jake
21:04
Speaker 3: Gyllenhaal movie life where the, the pod go, have you
21:08
Speaker 3: guys seen that one? Ryan Reynolds, Jake Gyllenhaal.
21:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
21:10
Speaker 5: I know the ending.
21:11
Speaker 3: Yeah. The, the ending is, you know, you think he
21:14
Speaker 3: got away and then you find out that the alien,
21:17
Speaker 3: like the alien was in the pod and it's about
21:19
Speaker 3: to take.
21:19
Speaker 1: Over the earth sort of thing. It's like, yeah, that
21:21
Speaker 1: kind of thing. That is how it would have ended today.
21:24
Speaker 1: That is exactly how it would have ended today. I
21:26
Speaker 1: feel like I would have liked to have a little
21:29
Speaker 1: bit more of an explicit, we're going to die. Because
21:33
Speaker 1: when they're out there, you know, they survived. And you know,
21:37
Speaker 1: like if you have a functioning brain, you know that
21:38
Speaker 1: they're going to die. Like there's no radio, there's no backup,
21:41
Speaker 1: the Norwegian camp is gone. There's no way they can survive.
21:44
Speaker 1: I think it would have been nice just to have
21:47
Speaker 1: a final moment of resolution between the two characters where...
21:53
Speaker 1: where they say something along the lines of, like, this
21:55
Speaker 1: is it, or it's been nice. Nothing as stupid as that,
22:00
Speaker 1: but something along the lines... Like, we needed some sort
22:03
Speaker 1: of finality to it. We needed some sort of denouement,
22:07
Speaker 1: even if it's just a one line. It's just one
22:10
Speaker 1: line away from being a better ending.
22:14
Speaker 3: I love the way it ends, specifically because every time
22:18
Speaker 3: I watch it, I see it and I go... Well, actually,
22:22
Speaker 3: wait a minute. Based on something that's earlier in the movie,
22:25
Speaker 3: this could mean that, and I love that absolute ambiguity
22:29
Speaker 3: because for me, I see the finality in that they're
22:33
Speaker 3: sharing the last bottle of whiskey and they're just going
22:35
Speaker 3: to sit there and drink and get a little bit
22:37
Speaker 3: drunk and then freeze to death. That to me is
22:39
Speaker 3: the finality. And that's the final line, is that swig
22:43
Speaker 3: of whiskey and Kurt Russell smiling. Again, we talked about
22:48
Speaker 3: the Western influences on Escape from New York. And I
22:51
Speaker 3: see that as a very sort of like Western movie
22:53
Speaker 3: sort of vibe. You know, the two gunslingers. Well, we
22:55
Speaker 3: ran out of bullets. I'm just going to stare at
22:58
Speaker 3: each other now, you know, because there's no way to
23:00
Speaker 3: fight sort of thing. But I think that this is
23:04
Speaker 3: definitely a movie that struggles with the time it's released. So,
23:10
Speaker 3: you know, Tristan, you talk about if the movie were
23:12
Speaker 3: made today, there would have been a different ending. You know,
23:15
Speaker 3: Kurt Russell would have gotten away. He would have been
23:17
Speaker 3: the alien. Like, It's really difficult to say, well, if
23:21
Speaker 3: this movie had been released six months later or a
23:23
Speaker 3: year later, it would have played better. It would have
23:25
Speaker 3: found an audience. Do you think that this is a
23:28
Speaker 3: movie that would have ever really found an audience in
23:30
Speaker 3: the 80s? Is it just too bleak for the hyper
23:33
Speaker 3: positive action movie 80s of Rambo going back and winning
23:37
Speaker 3: the Vietnam War years later and... Red Dawn and all
23:42
Speaker 3: of these other like really, you know, virtuosic action movies
23:46
Speaker 3: with all of the, you know, basically is this movie,
23:50
Speaker 3: would this movie ever truly have a time to come
23:52
Speaker 3: out in the 80s and find that audience?
23:56
Speaker 1: That's a very interesting question. I don't know how to
24:00
Speaker 1: answer it because when you think about how loaded 82 was,
24:05
Speaker 1: you know, like you, I mean, you talked about E.T.
24:08
Speaker 1: already in Blade Runner, but Wrath of Khan, Tron, Dark Crystal,
24:13
Speaker 1: Conan the Barbarian.
24:15
Speaker 3: Tron was a dud. I will just point that out.
24:17
Speaker 3: That was a complete failure at the box office.
24:19
Speaker 1: I'm just listing. I'm just listing.
24:21
Speaker 2: I know.
24:22
Speaker 1: Rocky III, Tootsie, An Officer and a Gentleman, Fast Times
24:26
Speaker 1: at Ridgemont High, First Blood, 48 Hours, and Poltergeist. Good Lord.
24:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:32
Speaker 3: That's a stacked slate for sure.
24:34
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe even if it just waited a year.
24:37
Speaker 1: If it just went to 83. Yeah, but then you're
24:39
Speaker 1: up against Return of the Jedi.
24:42
Speaker 3: And back then, one gigantic hit like that, Return of
24:45
Speaker 3: the Jedi sucked all the oxygen out of the room
24:47
Speaker 3: in 83.
24:48
Speaker 4: For me, this feels like an 86. Like, we're past
24:51
Speaker 4: the mid of the 80s. Because really, at.
24:54
Speaker 5: 82, we're still like.
24:57
Speaker 4: there's some movies that are still late seventies coded, you know, like, yes,
25:02
Speaker 4: it's technically 80, 81, 82, but you can feel some
25:06
Speaker 4: of the stories that it, yeah, it's early eighties. And
25:08
Speaker 4: it is not, although it's, I chuckled to myself when
25:12
Speaker 4: you said, you know, the optimism of the eighties and
25:15
Speaker 4: I'm thinking RoboCop, you know, all these other movies that
25:19
Speaker 4: I'm like, that was not optimistic, but I get what
25:22
Speaker 4: you're saying.
25:23
Speaker 3: I mean, having, having gone through it, the, You know,
25:25
Speaker 3: you had, you know, the rise of pro wrestling. You
25:29
Speaker 3: had Rocky. You had Rambo. You had both Sylvester Stallone.
25:33
Speaker 3: But you had a lot of really predator diehard. You
25:37
Speaker 3: had a lot of very explosively, for lack of a
25:41
Speaker 3: better word, positive, like uplifting action movies where it's like, yeah,
25:45
Speaker 3: the hero got away. You know, like John Carpenter's Predator
25:49
Speaker 3: doesn't end with Arnold Schwarzenegger getting saved by the helicopter
25:51
Speaker 3: at the end. Right. That, you know, that sort of thing. But,
25:55
Speaker 3: you know, I like I think there's almost a sense
26:00
Speaker 3: that in a way, I'm glad this movie wasn't a
26:03
Speaker 3: big hit because I think if it had been a
26:06
Speaker 3: big hit in the 80s, it would have remained pegged
26:09
Speaker 3: to the 80s. As opposed to being something that could
26:13
Speaker 3: find its audience over time and, you know, scar a
26:17
Speaker 3: young kid in 1986 who happens to see it on
26:20
Speaker 3: broadcast television and sees a thing happening. you know, sees
26:24
Speaker 3: the chest open up and eat the guy's arms and
26:26
Speaker 3: he goes back screaming. That's the scene I came in on.
26:29
Speaker 3: And it's in my brain for all time as a result,
26:33
Speaker 3: because I get to that scene every time and I
26:36
Speaker 3: still get tense because I'm like, oh, oh, no, it's coming. But,
26:41
Speaker 3: you know, I was 11 years old, gents.
26:44
Speaker 5: Right.
26:44
Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh. You know, coming up on 12 years
26:47
Speaker 3: old when it aired. But like, holy cow.
26:50
Speaker 2: Right.
26:50
Speaker 3: That's a that's a formative sort of thing. I think
26:53
Speaker 3: that having to find its audience winds up turning it
26:56
Speaker 3: into something regarded as a classic. I mean, Darren, do
27:00
Speaker 3: I have anything with that or am I sort of reaching?
27:02
Speaker 4: No, it's again, one of those things it's been around
27:07
Speaker 4: long enough that it's been looked at and dissected and
27:09
Speaker 4: has found its audience. I mean this, you know, we
27:12
Speaker 4: were joking comparing it to escape from New York, which
27:15
Speaker 4: had like a 6 million budget. This had 15, this
27:19
Speaker 4: is like three times the budget. So, yeah, it's got
27:22
Speaker 4: better lenses. It's got better. I mean, hey, you give
27:26
Speaker 4: carpenter money. It looks amazing. And not to say like
27:30
Speaker 4: that he can't do a lot with a little, but
27:32
Speaker 4: this is his his jump to that. And I, I
27:35
Speaker 4: really applaud him for, you know, he's from researching things.
27:39
Speaker 4: you know, the way he attacked this movie from the
27:42
Speaker 4: massive amount of pre-production to storyboarding a ton. Like you,
27:47
Speaker 4: with creature effects especially, you need to know where your
27:51
Speaker 4: angles are, where to hide the shots and to sell
27:56
Speaker 4: the effect. And so I see Carpenter growing in this
28:00
Speaker 4: movie as far as how to tell a really visually
28:04
Speaker 4: complex movie But but all in that. Yeah, this is
28:10
Speaker 4: this is firmly in the realm of cult classic. And
28:13
Speaker 4: I think a lot of people can define cult classic
28:16
Speaker 4: as it maybe wasn't as good or as well received
28:21
Speaker 4: when it came out. But it found, you know, on
28:23
Speaker 4: VHS or DVD or streaming its its audience later. And,
28:30
Speaker 4: you know, for a movie that did not do well financially,
28:34
Speaker 4: at least compared to its budget. It's definitely held in
28:40
Speaker 4: high regard, at least just for the special effects.
28:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't met a person who has seen this
28:47
Speaker 1: movie and hasn't screamed about it in a positive way.
28:51
Speaker 1: I didn't know that it was a flop. I didn't
28:53
Speaker 1: do much research.
28:55
Speaker 5: Shut up.
28:55
Speaker 3: Hey, you took my job then. I'm usually the one
28:58
Speaker 3: that doesn't know anything. Come on.
28:59
Speaker 1: I had no idea it was a flop, and I
29:02
Speaker 1: had no idea it was a cult classic. Because, you know,
29:05
Speaker 1: just be, you know, being born in 86, being raised
29:08
Speaker 1: in the 90s, and then just hearing like, you know,
29:10
Speaker 1: like being around a bunch of film nerds and, you know,
29:13
Speaker 1: talking about cinema constantly for most of my life. The
29:16
Speaker 1: thing is always in conversation. The thing is always there.
29:19
Speaker 1: Like when you want to talk about body horror or
29:21
Speaker 1: just horror, practical effects, isolationism, you know, I'm a big,
29:27
Speaker 1: I'm a big X-Files fan. And they have a season
29:29
Speaker 1: one episode that is completely a rip off of this movie.
29:32
Speaker 1: I mean, just Good Lord. I mean, we call it
29:36
Speaker 1: an homage, Tristan. Like you could tell like if they
29:39
Speaker 1: had more. budget, they would, it would have been more
29:41
Speaker 1: of a ripoff, but they went with parasitic infection instead of,
29:45
Speaker 1: you know, monster aliens and everything like that. Uh, so that,
29:49
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, that was my first exposure to
29:51
Speaker 1: the thing was, uh, X-Files' first season episode called Ice.
29:56
Speaker 4: Well, and, and that makes me think of, I mean,
29:59
Speaker 4: Triasa Horror. For The Simpsons, how many people have been
30:02
Speaker 4: exposed unknowingly to the homages of that? I mean, it's
30:07
Speaker 4: been around. I'm sure there's many people who that was
30:09
Speaker 4: their first exposure.
30:11
Speaker 5: When they did the thing or they did, you know.
30:13
Speaker 1: The Shining.
30:14
Speaker 3: Shining. The Shining, definitely.
30:16
Speaker 1: X-Files.
30:16
Speaker 3: Greatest parody ever.
30:17
Speaker 5: Sorry, it's a shittin'. You don't want to get sued.
30:20
Speaker 3: Yes.
30:20
Speaker 4: Well, Tristan, I'm curious with your lack of research, which
30:24
Speaker 4: I'm viewing it as new fresh eyes. That's how I'm
30:27
Speaker 4: going to cage it. So I know Carpenter has talked
30:31
Speaker 4: about some of the scenes, specifically the couch scene, we'll
30:36
Speaker 4: call it, where they're testing the blood and all of that.
30:38
Speaker 4: Had you heard about the light in the eyes trick
30:43
Speaker 4: that he did during that scene? Because it's really interesting
30:46
Speaker 4: on rewatch.
30:48
Speaker 1: No, no, I haven't.
30:49
Speaker 4: So and some people say that this was in every scene,
30:52
Speaker 4: but no, it's just at least in this one scene
30:55
Speaker 4: when they're panning around. all of the crew members or
31:01
Speaker 4: the team, anyone who's human, there is a key light
31:06
Speaker 4: in their eye giving them like a much more humanist
31:12
Speaker 4: kind of view. And as it pans, the one person,
31:14
Speaker 4: I forget the character's name, but the one that turns
31:16
Speaker 4: out being the thing in that scene has no key light.
31:20
Speaker 5: His eyes look dead. And it's a tiny little thing.
31:23
Speaker 1: That's really cool. I need to go back and watch it.
31:25
Speaker 4: Yeah just re-watch you know john's favorite scene uh no
31:29
Speaker 4: but but that again people have extrapolated that out to
31:32
Speaker 4: like every scene and no you you can't you can't
31:36
Speaker 4: do that for every single thing scene but i but
31:39
Speaker 4: he carpenter has said for that shot for that scene
31:42
Speaker 4: that was intentional and it's just a really cool visual
31:46
Speaker 4: because as humans we're reacting like oh that person doesn't
31:50
Speaker 4: look quite as.
31:52
Speaker 5: Again, they're not looking not human, but.
31:54
Speaker 4: We're almost subconsciously picking up on the subtle difference between
31:58
Speaker 4: those characters.
31:59
Speaker 5: So it's just a cool... That's a craft thing. That's
32:02
Speaker 5: a choice to do something so unique in that motion.
32:07
Speaker 3: I think that Carpenter does a lot. Thanks for walking
32:10
Speaker 3: us through that, Darren. Seriously. You're absolutely... Great way to
32:13
Speaker 3: walk through it. I love stuff like that. It is
32:16
Speaker 3: definitely something to watch for. And I think that this.
32:24
Speaker 3: Now, we've only watched two for House Lights here, but
32:28
Speaker 3: this is definitely the film, if I were ever to
32:32
Speaker 3: point to Carpenter as a labor of love. This is
32:35
Speaker 3: a film where I see a lot of love from
32:37
Speaker 3: the director. He wants to make this movie so bad. Like,
32:42
Speaker 3: this is the movie he wants to make. This is
32:45
Speaker 3: the movie that's always been inside him, whether he realized
32:47
Speaker 3: it or not. The other stuff was all prepped for this.
32:51
Speaker 3: And what I find equally fascinating is the original The
32:57
Speaker 3: Thing from Another World, also known just as The Thing
33:00
Speaker 3: from the 50s. And 1951, he actually has it on
33:05
Speaker 3: TV in Halloween. So I always like to think it
33:08
Speaker 3: was on his mind back then, too. I've never read
33:12
Speaker 3: anything that said that he purposely put it in Halloween
33:15
Speaker 3: as an indication that he wanted to do the remake
33:17
Speaker 3: or not. I'm sure that there's somebody out there that
33:20
Speaker 3: will insist that I just haven't read enough material. That's fine.
33:23
Speaker 3: But there's the source material, which is the short novel.
33:27
Speaker 3: And then there's the 1951 movie. And then there's this. Tristan,
33:31
Speaker 3: have you read the original source material, Who Goes There?
33:34
Speaker 1: No, not even a little.
33:35
Speaker 3: You have not read that? And Darren, have you read it?
33:38
Speaker 5: I have not either.
33:39
Speaker 3: It's very interesting. Have either of you seen the original
33:42
Speaker 3: 1950 Christian Nyby, Howard Hawks production? I strongly recommend, just
33:47
Speaker 3: so long as we're talking about John Carpenter's The Thing,
33:50
Speaker 3: it's fascinating to read the original material, see the way
33:54
Speaker 3: it was adapted in 1951, and how the Cold War
33:58
Speaker 3: mentality shaped that, and then how Carpenter makes a very
34:04
Speaker 3: timeless yet very relevant commentary on society at the time
34:10
Speaker 3: and how it picks up stuff from the original book
34:14
Speaker 3: that was dropped out of the 1951, but also how
34:17
Speaker 3: he changes some stuff about the adaptation of where certain
34:20
Speaker 3: things happen and how certain things happen. It's a really
34:23
Speaker 3: interesting sort of approach to what was more important to
34:30
Speaker 3: which director when they were adapting it. So I highly
34:34
Speaker 3: encourage everybody to go ahead and read the original source material,
34:38
Speaker 3: see the 1951 movie, and then watch this one. It's
34:41
Speaker 3: a really interesting thing where you can see how the
34:44
Speaker 3: time period and the director influences the adaptation and what
34:48
Speaker 3: they choose to emphasize. Very fascinating sort of stuff. But Darren,
34:53
Speaker 3: when you come to this, obviously, we've talked about how
34:58
Speaker 3: you know, the effects worked and the ending and the music,
35:01
Speaker 3: the performances here. Do you see a director who is
35:05
Speaker 3: giving clearer direction to his talent on screen here? You know,
35:11
Speaker 3: you've seen Escape from New York. You've seen this. Compare
35:14
Speaker 3: the performances. Like, you know, how are the performances different
35:18
Speaker 3: between these two movies? Where do you see a director
35:21
Speaker 3: shining in terms of how he's communicating with his talent?
35:24
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, first off, it's ensemble. Like that's the
35:27
Speaker 5: biggest difference there. Yes.
35:31
Speaker 4: And I believe even when they were shooting, they, MacReady
35:35
Speaker 4: kind of becoming more of the lens that everything is
35:38
Speaker 4: viewed through and becoming more of the main character was
35:41
Speaker 4: an over time kind of realization, partly in the edit,
35:44
Speaker 4: partly in the, like, I'm sure, you know, it's, it
35:48
Speaker 4: was a bit there from the very beginning, but this one,
35:51
Speaker 4: I don't know why you need so many people at
35:54
Speaker 4: this station to, there's way like what are all their
35:57
Speaker 4: jobs i don't know i could name.
35:59
Speaker 1: Like doing science yeah that was that was something that
36:02
Speaker 1: they didn't they never really emphasized whatsoever what they were
36:07
Speaker 1: doing why they were there they just had dogs and
36:10
Speaker 1: uh they hated dogs.
36:12
Speaker 5: That's to get around yeah i don't know you.
36:15
Speaker 3: Gotta feed people you gotta get around with sled dogs
36:18
Speaker 3: you gotta have a helicopter guy No, I understand that.
36:22
Speaker 4: I'm just saying I could name like five people and
36:24
Speaker 4: that would be all you need.
36:27
Speaker 1: The chess scene pissed me off probably the most in
36:30
Speaker 1: the movie because I was like, back in 82, that
36:33
Speaker 1: was probably like... That was a $ 200, 000 computer he just
36:38
Speaker 1: ruined with whiskey.
36:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it cheated. So like, I get that. I
36:42
Speaker 3: get that. My Atari used to cheat all the time.
36:44
Speaker 3: You should just ask the joysticks that I had to
36:46
Speaker 3: throw out. Atari always cheated.
36:48
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think.
36:51
Speaker 4: it's one of those things where I think the fact
36:55
Speaker 4: that there is so much practicality in the effects helps.
36:58
Speaker 5: This isn't the tennis ball on a stick era of, Oh,
37:02
Speaker 5: the thing will be there. No, the thing is right there.
37:04
Speaker 5: I mean, haha, the thing, no, the, the, the, the
37:07
Speaker 5: creature is in the shot with.
37:10
Speaker 4: Them 90, 80% of the time, you know, obviously there's,
37:14
Speaker 4: there's some where it's, it's comped in and done in
37:17
Speaker 4: different ways, but I feel it, Because of the way
37:21
Speaker 4: this story is told, it's kind of okay that the
37:25
Speaker 4: characters are kind of unsure what's going on. And even
37:30
Speaker 4: so the actors, like I'm sure the actors maybe didn't
37:33
Speaker 4: have the entire picture or any, which is okay because
37:36
Speaker 4: you're in this scenario where you're trying to figure it out.
37:40
Speaker 4: So it's, you don't want your character to be too
37:43
Speaker 4: on the nose and too informed with what's going on. Uh,
37:48
Speaker 4: and again, it makes me think a lot of alien, uh,
37:52
Speaker 4: because in that, yes, these are scientists and they're a
37:55
Speaker 4: little more specialized, but it's the same kind of vibe
37:58
Speaker 4: of working people in a extraordinary situation, trying to piece
38:04
Speaker 4: things together. And you have just enough, like they ride
38:07
Speaker 4: the line, but I totally buy every decision they make. I,
38:11
Speaker 4: I buy, yeah, it's a, it's a space ship. frozen
38:16
Speaker 4: in the ice but they make logical conclusions based it
38:20
Speaker 4: doesn't feel like uh someone found a copy of the
38:24
Speaker 4: script under the couch cushion you know it's a nice.
38:28
Speaker 1: There's also no there's no abject stupidity like there's no
38:32
Speaker 1: there's no moments in this movie there's so many movies
38:35
Speaker 1: especially modern movies where in order for the plot to
38:38
Speaker 1: happen people have to make stupid decisions And you never
38:43
Speaker 1: really feel that. Do people panic? Do people go crazy? Yeah.
38:48
Speaker 1: But it's not to the point of why on earth
38:51
Speaker 1: would somebody do that? Yeah.
38:53
Speaker 4: And I mean, these people obviously know each other, but
38:55
Speaker 4: they're not all friends.
38:57
Speaker 5: They're work colleagues.
38:58
Speaker 4: You know, they don't have a rich backstory of, oh,
39:01
Speaker 4: I knew child since we grew up together on the
39:04
Speaker 4: same block. No, like I've probably.
39:05
Speaker 5: Known him a month at most.
39:08
Speaker 4: And I'd say my favorite character as far as they're
39:13
Speaker 4: Decisions is Blair. Blair, the medical officer, once he kind
39:19
Speaker 4: of his is the most exposition kind of vibe where
39:24
Speaker 4: he's making a lot of assumptions and leaps that he
39:27
Speaker 4: kind of needs to to move the story along. Because
39:30
Speaker 4: once he decides like, Oh, we can't leave here. It's
39:33
Speaker 4: not worth the risk. And he starts sabotaging the blood sabotaging.
39:38
Speaker 4: Like he causes 80% of the damage that the thing
39:42
Speaker 4: doesn't cause is all done by Blair. And so that it,
39:46
Speaker 4: it pushes the story further. but not in a stupid way.
39:50
Speaker 4: I buy someone of his knowledge and skill making those decisions,
39:55
Speaker 4: making those call. And we had the moment where he's
39:58
Speaker 4: talking to the recording and all of that of why
40:01
Speaker 4: he's doing it.
40:02
Speaker 5: And it was just enough. It wasn't, I didn't need
40:04
Speaker 5: to be sold on what he was doing any more
40:07
Speaker 5: than that.
40:08
Speaker 3: I think that where Carpenter really excels with the performances is,
40:14
Speaker 3: I mean, I love Kurt Russell. He can do no wrong.
40:16
Speaker 3: So we'll just set him aside. I'll never criticize Kurt Russell.
40:20
Speaker 3: I wish he was related to me. That's how much
40:23
Speaker 3: I love Kurt Russell. So I'll set him off to
40:25
Speaker 3: the side here. And we have a facial hair Kurt
40:27
Speaker 3: Russell performance. Because remember, Kurt Russell's career, we have facial
40:31
Speaker 3: hair Kurt Russell and no facial hair Kurt Russell. Those
40:33
Speaker 3: are two different Kurt Russells, both of them equally great. Anyway,
40:38
Speaker 3: I think that in terms of performance, Carpenter gets a
40:41
Speaker 3: great ensemble together. And I believe these people, even though
40:46
Speaker 3: I've seen them all in separate different things, I still
40:50
Speaker 3: believe them in these roles. Even Keith David, who, I mean,
40:54
Speaker 3: that guy's voice is burned in my brain as the
40:56
Speaker 3: president in Rick and Morty now. I can't, you know, like,
40:59
Speaker 3: it's just there. And I think that.
41:01
Speaker 1: Ghostbusters aren't cool now?
41:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:03
Speaker 3: I don't remember writing that, Bill. I can't wait for
41:07
Speaker 3: Thanksgiving so I can watch that episode. Anyway, so I
41:13
Speaker 3: think that the decision to cast and the direction given
41:18
Speaker 3: to who you're saying, Darren, Blair, Wilford Brimley... In the
41:23
Speaker 3: in this cast list is a Wilford Brimley, not the
41:27
Speaker 3: Wilford Brimley, but a Wilford Brimley. But I think that
41:31
Speaker 3: he this is like it's crazy to me every time
41:34
Speaker 3: I watch this, because Wilford Brimley is always like the
41:37
Speaker 3: kindly old guy from Cocoon and telling me to eat
41:39
Speaker 3: my oatmeal and watch out for diabetes and stuff like that.
41:43
Speaker 3: And then to see him here have this turn like
41:46
Speaker 3: this is an amazing performance from him. because it's so subtle.
41:50
Speaker 3: And then when you have that turn at the end,
41:53
Speaker 3: it's legitimately off-putting. And I think that Carpenter does a
41:57
Speaker 3: great job of playing into Brimley's strengths as an everyman
42:02
Speaker 3: sort of actor. But I think that I would also
42:07
Speaker 3: have to really give a lot of credit to Donald
42:11
Speaker 3: Moffat as Gary, just because he gets that line that
42:16
Speaker 3: he doesn't want to spend the rest of the winter
42:18
Speaker 3: tied to that effing couch. And I love the way
42:20
Speaker 3: he delivers that line. But also a guy I think
42:22
Speaker 3: that gets really overlooked a lot of times is Richard
42:26
Speaker 3: Mazur as the dog handler. Clark, I think his name is, right?
42:31
Speaker 3: That's Clark?
42:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
42:32
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's Clark.
42:33
Speaker 3: He's great because you're never sure if he's breaking and
42:37
Speaker 3: going crazy or if he's just like just really chill, And,
42:44
Speaker 3: you know, in control sort of thing. Like he feels
42:46
Speaker 3: like the direction Carpenter gives him is he comes across
42:50
Speaker 3: as the guy that maybe should have actually been in
42:52
Speaker 3: charge because he keeps the most level head, of course,
42:56
Speaker 3: only to get a bullet in it later. But, you know, Tristan,
43:00
Speaker 3: what is the standout about performance? Where do you see
43:02
Speaker 3: Carpenter interacting with his cast really, really well?
43:05
Speaker 1: I think it was just nice to get a very
43:07
Speaker 1: amount of personalities in one space where as soon as
43:11
Speaker 1: you see Kurt Russell even if they didn't put the
43:13
Speaker 1: stupid ass chest thing in there it was you knew
43:17
Speaker 1: exactly what type of character he was by the you
43:20
Speaker 1: know like he's the pilot he's he's a natural born
43:23
Speaker 1: leader he is you could tell he's seen some stuff
43:27
Speaker 1: I mean look at the hat that he that he
43:29
Speaker 1: wore you.
43:29
Speaker 3: Know that is a great hat I'm just gonna say that.
43:32
Speaker 1: Is a man who wears that hat you know isn't
43:34
Speaker 1: scared of anything that's right exactly but yeah just you
43:40
Speaker 1: know like with Keith David being a hothead with the
43:43
Speaker 1: guy who was only concerned about the dogs with you
43:49
Speaker 1: know Brimley's performance that you nailed it with talking about
43:52
Speaker 1: the subtlety and how you know like a man of
43:55
Speaker 1: science and a man of medicine recognizing when he's been
43:59
Speaker 1: beat and how it's not worth like all of their
44:02
Speaker 1: lives put together are not worth the devastation that this
44:05
Speaker 1: could rot on the Earth. Yeah, I just really liked
44:10
Speaker 1: the ensemble-ness of it. I think everyone brought their A-game,
44:14
Speaker 1: and I don't really think that there was one person
44:18
Speaker 1: where I was like, wow, he is carrying this entire
44:21
Speaker 1: movie on his back, which is really nice to be
44:26
Speaker 1: able to say. And one thing that I actually forgot
44:28
Speaker 1: to mention was I hate that we saw the spaceship
44:31
Speaker 1: at the beginning. Really?
44:32
Speaker 5: You hate that?
44:34
Speaker 1: I hate it. I hate it. to my bones i
44:37
Speaker 1: think it would be so much better if we didn't
44:39
Speaker 1: see it because when you see it you're just like
44:43
Speaker 1: first of all it's a terrible spaceship design and it
44:49
Speaker 1: immediately goes to your brain of oh we're dealing with
44:52
Speaker 1: aliens where if they left it alone and you'd have
44:56
Speaker 1: that more of that intrigue of like what are we
44:59
Speaker 1: dealing with is it terrestrial is it extraterrestrial is it
45:03
Speaker 1: a mutation and like when they go to the Norwegian camp,
45:08
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like that would have been a
45:09
Speaker 1: much bigger shock and awe as opposed to everybody knowing
45:14
Speaker 1: it's going to be aliens. And so, boom, you know,
45:17
Speaker 1: what's really interesting. Even, even before there could be like,
45:20
Speaker 1: like this, this literally the first thing you see, it's
45:22
Speaker 1: just like, Hey everybody, the mystery is aliens.
45:26
Speaker 3: Yeah. I, I, I don't have the issue with it
45:28
Speaker 3: because I think that what I enjoy about it is
45:31
Speaker 3: you don't know how early that is. Is that happening
45:35
Speaker 3: today or is that happening 10,000 years ago? You don't
45:38
Speaker 3: know when it happened. I get what you're saying. But
45:41
Speaker 3: you know it affects the story. But this is the
45:44
Speaker 3: thing that's hysterical to me is that I don't level
45:48
Speaker 3: that criticism here. I actually wind up leveling it at
45:51
Speaker 3: Predator because I hate that you see the spaceship at
45:53
Speaker 3: the beginning in Predator. Because I think it would be
45:55
Speaker 3: so much cooler just to have Predator show up and
45:58
Speaker 3: you're like, what the F is that?
46:00
Speaker 1: I have the reverse, complete reverse.
46:02
Speaker 3: You know, this is where we're different. And this is
46:04
Speaker 3: what I love is we celebrate these differences here on
46:06
Speaker 3: House Lights because Tristan's wrong. And so we, you know,
46:10
Speaker 3: I got to talk about the editing. We're here, we're
46:12
Speaker 3: rounding third, but we got to spare a minute for
46:14
Speaker 3: the editing. Todd Ramsey's back. Need a little help from
46:17
Speaker 3: Verna Fields at the end. But Tristan, I know that
46:20
Speaker 3: in Escape from New York, you hated the dip to black.
46:22
Speaker 3: You hated that. There's a lot more of it here.
46:25
Speaker 1: Freaking unnecessary.
46:26
Speaker 3: A lot more of it here, though. A lot more
46:28
Speaker 3: of it. Leave it a lot more to ponder about.
46:32
Speaker 1: Used appropriately.
46:33
Speaker 3: Okay, see, that's what I was going for. I wanted
46:35
Speaker 3: to know whether... Because as I'm watching it this time,
46:38
Speaker 3: I'm sitting there going, oh, is Tristan going to hate this?
46:41
Speaker 1: Well, see, that's the thing. I don't hate dip to blacks.
46:44
Speaker 1: It's not the tool that I hate. I hate how
46:45
Speaker 1: it's used. Like, I mean, you can either use a
46:49
Speaker 1: hammer to nail something together or you can smack somebody
46:53
Speaker 1: with it.
46:54
Speaker 3: Both valid uses. I'm just saying.
46:58
Speaker 1: And yeah, no, I just like the dip to black
47:01
Speaker 1: and the editing of, escaped in New York was all
47:04
Speaker 1: over the place. There were so many decisions that were
47:06
Speaker 1: just like, why the frigging hell would you do that?
47:09
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you cut sooner with, with the thing? I,
47:13
Speaker 1: this was, this was stellar. This was stellar editing from
47:16
Speaker 1: a micro and macro level.
47:17
Speaker 4: I liked the, cause the dip to black to me
47:21
Speaker 4: went along with the whole kind of losing sense of time.
47:25
Speaker 4: Like how long has it been? And I believe in,
47:29
Speaker 4: in my research that Justin didn't do, you know, that
47:33
Speaker 4: this is towards the very beginning of like their winter,
47:38
Speaker 4: as far as the sun not coming up anymore. Like
47:41
Speaker 4: they're getting closer and closer to when like the sun
47:43
Speaker 4: doesn't even rise, but barely.
47:46
Speaker 5: So yeah, it kind of feels like, oh, has it
47:49
Speaker 5: been a day? Has it been two?
47:52
Speaker 4: The only, the only other thing as far as time
47:56
Speaker 4: that I just want to say is the only part
48:00
Speaker 4: that kind of rubs me the wrong way is the, the,
48:05
Speaker 4: the new spaceship that's being built way too much spaceship,
48:09
Speaker 4: way too fast. Like I I'm like Blair was in
48:12
Speaker 4: there for like a day, maybe two. And he tunneled
48:16
Speaker 4: down and built like this giant spaceship out of parts
48:19
Speaker 4: out of, out of scrap in a cave and, It's like, no,
48:23
Speaker 4: that kind of pushed me to the edge of my disbelief,
48:26
Speaker 4: in my opinion.
48:29
Speaker 3: The maker himself right there, making robots? Come on. You
48:33
Speaker 3: know you could put this together. Darren, you're being too modest.
48:35
Speaker 3: That's what it is, is you're being too modest about
48:37
Speaker 3: your own skills. I know that you have a spaceship
48:40
Speaker 3: somewhere buried beneath your house and you put it together
48:43
Speaker 3: in 12 hours. Don't even try to play. That's a cover.
48:46
Speaker 3: That's a smoke screen right there is what you're doing
48:48
Speaker 3: because you don't want me to come over and steal
48:49
Speaker 3: your spaceship. That's fair enough. But Since we have rounded
48:53
Speaker 3: third and we will save Tristan for last because this
48:57
Speaker 3: is his first time watching it all the way through. Darren,
49:00
Speaker 3: we'll kick off with you. What do you rate the thing?
49:03
Speaker 3: Final thoughts on the way out as we're about to
49:06
Speaker 3: blow up the Arctic station over here.
49:08
Speaker 5: Blow it all up.
49:09
Speaker 4: No, I, the one little bit of history, which I
49:13
Speaker 4: find so funny because it would have been so different nowadays.
49:17
Speaker 5: So this movie starts with like 90, like it's just
49:21
Speaker 5: black text, you.
49:22
Speaker 4: Know, there's no universal logo. And apparently they didn't use
49:27
Speaker 4: the universal logo because they felt it muddled up too much.
49:33
Speaker 4: That opening shot of earth is, And the spaceship landing.
49:37
Speaker 4: I'm like, nowadays, they absolutely would have turned it into
49:42
Speaker 4: the shot. You would have had Universal go by as
49:46
Speaker 4: they should have.
49:47
Speaker 5: And Universal.
49:48
Speaker 4: And then the text just keeps going around the planet.
49:51
Speaker 4: And you kind of zoom in and rotate around to Antarctica.
49:55
Speaker 3: And then a.
49:55
Speaker 5: Spaceship flies by. That's exactly what they would have done.
49:58
Speaker 1: That's the only thing that would have saved that shot.
50:01
Speaker 3: But I would say you're both wrong. But I would
50:04
Speaker 3: say that probably that's a vestige of the suits panicking
50:07
Speaker 3: and being like, don't put Universal in front. We don't
50:10
Speaker 3: believe in this movie. We don't want people to remember
50:12
Speaker 3: that we released it.
50:13
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know if I'd go that far,
50:15
Speaker 4: but it could be.
50:16
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding.
50:17
Speaker 5: I have no idea.
50:18
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding.
50:18
Speaker 4: All that to say, yeah, there's many movies, you know,
50:22
Speaker 4: Disney's done it, Universal's done it, Paramount's done it, where
50:25
Speaker 4: they interact that with the film. And they absolutely would
50:29
Speaker 4: have done that in a more modern mentality.
50:31
Speaker 1: I think Waterworld and Serenity... Those are my two favorite examples.
50:35
Speaker 4: For me, it's like Indiana Jones with the Paramount logo
50:38
Speaker 4: going to the mountaintop. And in a different way, I'd
50:44
Speaker 4: say the Flintstones movie being stylized with universe shell is
50:49
Speaker 4: always just, it's just, they're having fun with it. Also
50:53
Speaker 4: Tron legacy had a banger of a changed castle on
50:57
Speaker 4: the grid.
50:58
Speaker 3: Oh yes.
50:59
Speaker 1: We're, Damn, Darren knows his stuff.
51:03
Speaker 3: Tron Legacy I'm with. I never particularly cared for the
51:06
Speaker 3: Waterworld example, but I get what you're saying.
51:10
Speaker 5: Doesn't it just like all of a sudden the water
51:12
Speaker 5: just ends up.
51:12
Speaker 3: On the planet? Yeah, I mean, that's cool.
51:16
Speaker 1: I thought it was cheesy. No, John, you're wrong on
51:19
Speaker 1: that one. You're dead wrong.
51:21
Speaker 4: Any time a production company or a distributor incorporates their logo.
51:28
Speaker 5: tactfully.
51:28
Speaker 3: It's a it's an a plus they're all chasing the
51:31
Speaker 3: dragon of the the orion studios logo nobody will ever
51:34
Speaker 3: be as cool as that one so we'll just leave
51:36
Speaker 3: it there but.
51:37
Speaker 4: Yeah all that to say this was really fun revisiting
51:40
Speaker 4: it's a fun movie to talk about to re-watch annually
51:45
Speaker 4: you know in that spooky season the effects still hold
51:49
Speaker 4: up incredibly well I love the fact that John Carpenter
51:53
Speaker 4: is like, I'm not telling you who's a thing at
51:55
Speaker 4: the end. Like he will not, like he, not that
51:58
Speaker 4: he doesn't talk about it, but he's like, no, that's
52:00
Speaker 4: for you to decide. And I'm like, bravo, sir. Don't
52:02
Speaker 4: tell me. I don't want to know. It's much better
52:05
Speaker 4: not to. But yeah, I have to give this a five. It's,
52:08
Speaker 4: it's so enjoyable. Just revisiting. It's rewatch ability is super high.
52:16
Speaker 4: But like most horror, there is going to be a
52:19
Speaker 4: bit of a, reflection on when you were exposed to it.
52:23
Speaker 4: If this scarred you as a child, it's going to
52:26
Speaker 4: be a different experience than discovering it later in life.
52:29
Speaker 4: And for me, fortunately, it was the latter. So five
52:35
Speaker 4: research scientists, if they're human, I do not know.
52:39
Speaker 3: I will go ahead and say I love everything you said, Darren.
52:44
Speaker 3: I've loved this conversation and I've loved this film since
52:48
Speaker 3: I was just a very young person. And I'm a
52:52
Speaker 3: very old person now. And I can say unabashedly that
52:59
Speaker 3: of Carpenter's films, I think this is the greatest one
53:01
Speaker 3: that he did. I love John Carpenter as a director
53:05
Speaker 3: up to a certain point. There's some, you know, it
53:07
Speaker 3: gets to a certain point in the 90s where he
53:09
Speaker 3: and I part ways. But Carpenter of the 70s and 80s,
53:13
Speaker 3: holy crap, this guy shaped my tastes for the rest
53:16
Speaker 3: of my life. He didn't intend to, but he did.
53:20
Speaker 3: And I hands down, like chalk it up to whatever
53:23
Speaker 3: you want. I think this is one of the greatest
53:24
Speaker 3: movies I've ever seen too. And I love everything about it.
53:29
Speaker 3: I love the score. I love the performances. I love
53:32
Speaker 3: just the production value. I love the way it's edited.
53:36
Speaker 3: I love the way it ends. I love the spaceship
53:39
Speaker 3: in the beginning because I'm a normal human being and
53:43
Speaker 3: I will just go ahead and I will just, I'll
53:44
Speaker 3: give it the five stars. And yeah, I know that's
53:48
Speaker 3: two fives in a row for me for House of
53:51
Speaker 3: Carpenters so far. Darren, you gave it a five. I
53:53
Speaker 3: gave it a five. Tristan, are we going for the
53:56
Speaker 3: trifecta or are you about to disappoint the world?
53:58
Speaker 1: I don't know about the world, but definitely I'm going
53:59
Speaker 1: to disappoint you. No, I'm not giving this a five.
54:03
Speaker 1: That spaceship, man. It just, that knocks it down three stars.
54:07
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. No, three stars. That's what brings it down. No,
54:10
Speaker 1: it brings it down three stars. I'm not giving it
54:12
Speaker 1: three stars. It brings it down three stars. You're never
54:15
Speaker 1: watching it again because of the spaceship at the beginning. No, no, no, no, no.
54:18
Speaker 1: This is a good movie. This is a good movie.
54:22
Speaker 1: I want to say it's great, but there are a
54:26
Speaker 1: few things where, you know, like I would have gone
54:29
Speaker 1: left instead of right, but not many. And there's so
54:35
Speaker 1: much to love about this. You know, my instinct is
54:37
Speaker 1: to say 3.5, but I know like there's, there's just
54:41
Speaker 1: so much good in this. There's so many great practical effects, performances, casting, production, design, location.
54:49
Speaker 1: There's just like, there's just, so many things that are
54:52
Speaker 1: firing on all cylinders. And so I'm giving this a four.
54:54
Speaker 3: The fact that it was so close to a 3.5,
54:56
Speaker 3: that in and of itself enrages me, but okay.
54:59
Speaker 1: Okay.
55:00
Speaker 3: Like I said, we celebrate, uh, everybody's, you know, opinion
55:05
Speaker 3: here on house lights as much as it might anger us.
55:07
Speaker 1: So tolerate other days.
55:09
Speaker 4: Yeah.
55:09
Speaker 3: You know, Darren, you know, we have gone now to
55:13
Speaker 3: two movies through John Carpenter's 1980s works, uh, What's coming up?
55:19
Speaker 4: Well, this man put out a movie almost every year
55:22
Speaker 4: of 1980. Next, we're covering Christine from 1983. Next on
55:27
Speaker 4: House Lights.
55:30
Speaker 1: Join the revolution.
55:31
Speaker 4: Join the nerd party.