Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Immigration and the H-1B Visa Debate

Transcript

Normally Podcast: Immigration and the H-1B Visa Debate · Normally

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey guys, so welcome too. Normally I show with normal takes,
0:09
Speaker 1: but when the news it gets weird.
0:10
Speaker 2: I am Mary Calvin him and I am Carol Marco.
0:13
Speaker 2: It's happy new Year, Mary, Catherine.
0:16
Speaker 1: Happy new Year. We begin again.
0:18
Speaker 3: I get to have all new goals and maybe meet
0:21
Speaker 3: them all new taaks.
0:24
Speaker 1: Or actually some of the same goals from last year. Yeah,
0:27
Speaker 1: and some of the same takes whatever. All good. How
0:30
Speaker 1: is it true? How was your new year? Or what
0:35
Speaker 1: are you what are you gearing up for?
0:39
Speaker 2: You know, I don't really do New Year's resolutions. I
0:41
Speaker 2: just constantly try for the same stuff, like use the internet, list,
0:46
Speaker 2: read more books, that kind of thing. So I don't
0:49
Speaker 2: have anything particular that I plan around New Years. I
0:53
Speaker 2: realized that it's a big thing for people, so you know,
0:57
Speaker 2: I recognize that that that you know, I see it
1:01
Speaker 2: also as a starting point the way.
1:02
Speaker 1: Other people do.
1:03
Speaker 2: I just don't ever come up with anything worth starting with.
1:06
Speaker 1: I'm with you.
1:06
Speaker 3: I always try the same things, which is like every
1:10
Speaker 3: year there's a new planner or a new productivity tool
1:12
Speaker 3: that I'm like, yeah, this is definitely going to stick
1:15
Speaker 3: this time. I can feel it. I can feel it
1:17
Speaker 3: in my bones. We'll check in in late January and
1:20
Speaker 3: we will find that that's probably the case. But who knows,
1:22
Speaker 3: maybe this year will be the one that I that
1:25
Speaker 3: I find the real one it's gonna happen.
1:28
Speaker 2: This could be the year you find the planner that
1:30
Speaker 2: helps you actually plan.
1:31
Speaker 1: Yes see, I believe. Okay, shall we get some news, Yeah.
1:39
Speaker 2: Let's do it. It was an exciting Christmas New Year's
1:44
Speaker 2: holiday with a lot of arguing. It seems like there
1:48
Speaker 2: was a rift in the manga movement before Trump even
1:52
Speaker 2: takes office, and it mostly stemmed from Elon Musk and
1:57
Speaker 2: Vivek Ramswami coming out and favor of the H one
2:01
Speaker 2: B visas, which are temporary work visas, and I don't know,
2:07
Speaker 2: it seemed like it got really heated and that I
2:11
Speaker 2: didn't quite know where it was going to end up,
2:14
Speaker 2: because there was some definite parts of it that I
2:17
Speaker 2: felt were a little weird, a little abnormal, And for example,
2:23
Speaker 2: the Vivek tweeting out that the culture that venerates Corey
2:27
Speaker 2: from Boy Meets World, or Zach and Slater over Screeched
2:30
Speaker 2: and saved by the Bell, or Stefan over Steve Erkele
2:33
Speaker 2: and family matters will not produce the best engineers, and
2:36
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, then I guess we won't produce
2:39
Speaker 2: the best engineers because those people are awesome. Why would
2:43
Speaker 2: we not venerate them?
2:45
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, So it got weird because there was this
2:51
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people watching from the outside
2:54
Speaker 3: were gratified to watch a clash between the tech bro
2:58
Speaker 3: culture and the need for sort of like highly talented
3:03
Speaker 3: technical H one B Visa engineers, which is what Elon
3:08
Speaker 3: was talking about, and the crew that does not like immigration,
3:14
Speaker 3: particularly illegal immigration, but also has concerns about any immigration
3:17
Speaker 3: that crowds out American workers, right, and that's the more populist,
3:21
Speaker 3: more working class part of the MAGA coalition. So the
3:24
Speaker 3: fact that these two are going at it over Christmas
3:27
Speaker 3: on H one B visas was fun for people to watch.
3:32
Speaker 3: It also got nasty about culture. Sometimes these things, anytime
3:36
Speaker 3: you have an immigration discussion, they can get nasty about
3:39
Speaker 3: culture and race or xenophobia. There can be elements of that. However,
3:43
Speaker 3: the parts that were interesting were the fact that we
3:48
Speaker 3: were having a pretty technical discussion at times about H
3:51
Speaker 3: one B visas, Yeah, which is something that for many
3:55
Speaker 3: years we.
3:56
Speaker 1: Have not been having.
3:58
Speaker 3: We haven't been having actual policy discussions, So there were
4:03
Speaker 3: there were elements of it that I very much enjoyed.
4:05
Speaker 3: Although I say that we, you know, venerating an athlete
4:09
Speaker 3: and a scholar is what we should be doing.
4:12
Speaker 1: As a culture.
4:12
Speaker 3: I don't have a problem with the cool dudes from
4:17
Speaker 3: our our cannon, as it were.
4:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we said this before, you know, I said
4:23
Speaker 2: this to each other before we started recording, But I
4:25
Speaker 2: didn't know where you were on this issue. Like, I
4:28
Speaker 2: don't feel like this is a perfect alignment of other issues.
4:32
Speaker 2: So for example, I think I'm pretty aligned with Elon
4:36
Speaker 2: on a lot of things, but vec I just find
4:37
Speaker 2: him to be too flip floppy and all over the place.
4:41
Speaker 2: But suddenly I found myself on the same side, like
4:44
Speaker 2: with like Laura Lumer, and I was like, I don't
4:45
Speaker 2: like this at all. So it's interesting because Okay, I'm
4:50
Speaker 2: an immigrant. Obviously I am pro immigration, but I fully
4:54
Speaker 2: understand what the problem is with these temporary work visas
4:58
Speaker 2: and how they are abused and the way that we
5:00
Speaker 2: end up importing lower income workers and it does take
5:06
Speaker 2: jobs from Americans, and I don't understand why we need
5:10
Speaker 2: a lot of this. So I think where this argument
5:13
Speaker 2: has ended up is that this program needs reform, and
5:17
Speaker 2: that's where I am as well. One other thing that
5:19
Speaker 2: I wanted to say was before Trump commented on it,
5:22
Speaker 2: I knew which side he was going to take, because
5:25
Speaker 2: he has been very open about the fact that he
5:29
Speaker 2: does think that we should be importing really smart people,
5:31
Speaker 2: and that he would be open to giving green cards
5:34
Speaker 2: to every single foreign national who graduates from a US college,
5:38
Speaker 2: which I think is insane.
5:39
Speaker 1: That's a terrible idea.
5:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, horrible. But the people that were surprised at Trump's take,
5:45
Speaker 2: I just think a lot of people project onto him
5:48
Speaker 2: what they want him to believe. And you and I
5:51
Speaker 2: have said this on here a lot, but he is
5:53
Speaker 2: actually a moderate and that continues to be a surprise
5:56
Speaker 2: to a lot of people. And I knew he would be.
5:59
Speaker 2: I knew he'd be with Vivek and Elon on this
6:02
Speaker 2: because he's been with them all along.
6:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I kind of am where you are. I
6:08
Speaker 3: think I'm generally pro the idea of H one B
6:11
Speaker 3: visa's it gives us a chance to bring cream of
6:13
Speaker 3: the crop talent from other countries to our country.
6:18
Speaker 1: Our country is.
6:18
Speaker 3: A place that can take cream of the crop talent
6:21
Speaker 3: from other countries and wet it with this very audacious,
6:24
Speaker 3: big dreaming American psyche and opportunity and create even bigger things.
6:30
Speaker 3: I think Elon Musk is obviously an example of that.
6:33
Speaker 3: But this was what struck me in the conversation, is
6:36
Speaker 3: that any government program, first of all, particularly these days,
6:42
Speaker 3: I'm open to reforming. Like, I'm going to listen to
6:45
Speaker 3: you if you say that this program isn't working as designed, Yeah,
6:48
Speaker 3: because it seems like this is not what it was
6:51
Speaker 3: actually intended to do. And I think in some of
6:54
Speaker 3: the stuff that people have looked up, you know, a
6:56
Speaker 3: lot of these are not jobs that perfectly qualified Americans
7:00
Speaker 3: could not do. And I also understand it makes perfect
7:04
Speaker 3: sense that there could be opportunity for abuse of the
7:09
Speaker 3: program and mistreatment of the people who come to this
7:13
Speaker 3: country because they are so dependent on this particular program
7:17
Speaker 3: that you can get sort of exorbitant working hours out
7:20
Speaker 3: of them in order for them to keep these visas.
7:23
Speaker 3: So that concerns me as well.
7:25
Speaker 2: A lot of people have posted kind of stories about
7:28
Speaker 2: this and how these workers are treated. There's also just
7:31
Speaker 2: the element of is this immigration, Is this people coming
7:35
Speaker 2: to America to start their lives? And be American and
7:40
Speaker 2: all of it, or is this a worker program which
7:43
Speaker 2: is completely different. And so when the argument happens like,
7:46
Speaker 2: oh this is you know, if you oppose this, your
7:49
Speaker 2: anti immigration, Well, no, I'm actually for immigration. I think
7:53
Speaker 2: we could take a breath because we've had this insane
7:57
Speaker 2: number of people coming illegally over our boardroom. You can
8:00
Speaker 2: decide what we want our legal immigration numbers to look like.
8:03
Speaker 2: But I don't think this is necessarily an immigration program.
8:07
Speaker 2: And so all around, I again found myself on the
8:10
Speaker 2: side of people that I normally don't align with and
8:14
Speaker 2: found that very confusing.
8:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you.
8:17
Speaker 3: Again, I'm sort of still waiting through it because it
8:21
Speaker 3: is the holidays, and I looked around and was like, wow,
8:24
Speaker 3: we're having a lot of folks are having a big
8:26
Speaker 3: fight about this, and I am not yet engaged in that.
8:31
Speaker 3: But I do think that having people argue about it
8:34
Speaker 3: and coming to a sort of rough conclusion that this
8:37
Speaker 3: needs to be looked at more closely and reformed does
8:40
Speaker 3: not make me upset, And it seems like a decent conclusion.
8:45
Speaker 3: And the thing that is interesting about Musk and other
8:49
Speaker 3: tech guys who have large platforms talking about this kind
8:52
Speaker 3: of thing is that it can bring attention to sort
8:55
Speaker 3: of niche interesting policy areas that not everybody has thought about,
9:00
Speaker 3: and then you do have an airing of grievances that
9:02
Speaker 3: you wouldn't have otherwise had.
9:05
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I look, I love debate. I love getting
9:09
Speaker 2: to a place where people can agree on something. I
9:13
Speaker 2: don't think any of this is bad. I'm one of
9:14
Speaker 2: those people who loves primaries, and I think that they're
9:17
Speaker 2: important for a party. And if you want to see
9:20
Speaker 2: that in action and why that matters so much, check
9:22
Speaker 2: out the Democrats right now. Primaries really matter. We hash
9:26
Speaker 2: out our ideas. I don't think they're supposed to be
9:28
Speaker 2: so personal. Although obviously Vivek has definitely gotten some personal
9:33
Speaker 2: attacks since this all went down. You know, I've never
9:37
Speaker 2: been a fan of his obviously, I don't like any
9:39
Speaker 2: of the racist nonsense at him at all. But I
9:42
Speaker 2: just I've always found him to that he just says whatever,
9:45
Speaker 2: Like they have video of him opposing the H one
9:48
Speaker 2: B program in the past, and you know, not that
9:50
Speaker 2: long ago either, like when he ran for president last
9:52
Speaker 2: year or so. So he's kind of all over the board.
9:55
Speaker 2: But I don't think it should be personal I think
9:58
Speaker 2: we should get to where we want to be as
10:01
Speaker 2: a party and as a philosophy. And I'm willing to
10:05
Speaker 2: be convinced one way or the other. And so I
10:08
Speaker 2: enjoyed all of that. I think that it's good for
10:11
Speaker 2: us on the right in general.
10:14
Speaker 3: Also something I am versed in and just a quick
10:16
Speaker 3: fact check for Vivic, Zach did score higher than Screech
10:20
Speaker 3: famously on the SAT and say by the Bell and
10:25
Speaker 3: Laura famously chose Stephen over Stefan in family matters. So
10:30
Speaker 3: I just want to say, maybe we are in the
10:32
Speaker 3: right spot. Maybe American culture is not the problem. Yeah,
10:37
Speaker 3: what did I will say?
10:38
Speaker 1: What did you take? What did you make of the
10:40
Speaker 1: critique of American culture? Where Vivic was.
10:43
Speaker 3: Basically saying, if you're not and I don't think this
10:46
Speaker 3: term is problematic because it was a book, But if
10:48
Speaker 3: you're not tiger momming your kids, if they aren't having
10:52
Speaker 3: mathematics tutoring all the time, if they aren't doing extra
10:57
Speaker 3: curriculars academically at all times, if they're indulging in silliness
11:02
Speaker 3: like watching TV and what have you, that we're not
11:07
Speaker 3: going to create top engineers Like that's basically what's required.
11:11
Speaker 2: Well, I you know, I would say that, first of all,
11:14
Speaker 2: I love the original Tiger Mom, Amy Chua. She'd love professor.
11:20
Speaker 2: She's fantastic. I love everything she writes. But I think
11:24
Speaker 2: that obviously her book or philosophy, it's a few steps
11:29
Speaker 2: too far from me. I am definitely a tougher parent
11:34
Speaker 2: where I'm very like, why isn't this one hundred? Why
11:37
Speaker 2: is this a ninety? You know, my daughter says that
11:39
Speaker 2: one time I said to her, let her ninety two
11:42
Speaker 2: was dangerously close to eighty nine. And but here's the thing.
11:49
Speaker 1: I have three kids.
11:50
Speaker 2: They're very different, like they just are. I would say
11:54
Speaker 2: my youngest is very Zach Slater, and he's young, so
11:57
Speaker 2: who knows, maybe he'll grow up and becomes Screez. She's
12:00
Speaker 2: only nine. But he's charming as hell. And he is
12:04
Speaker 2: the person that everybody gravitates towards. And you know, you
12:08
Speaker 2: send me videos of NFL players who are small in size,
12:11
Speaker 2: because he wants to go to the NFL and he's tiny.
12:15
Speaker 2: People are different, they're different. And while I have that
12:18
Speaker 2: Tiger mom, Jean, you know, the immigrant mom who thinks
12:21
Speaker 2: the kids need to work harder. And I love I
12:23
Speaker 2: love my kids struggle in school because it means that
12:26
Speaker 2: they're having to work, and I don't like when things
12:28
Speaker 2: are easy for them. I saw what was so offensive
12:31
Speaker 2: about what he was saying. He was like, your American
12:34
Speaker 2: culture is not that great, and you need to be
12:37
Speaker 2: able to compete with these other cultures that nobody wants
12:40
Speaker 2: to be a part of. Nobody's Like, I'm dying to
12:42
Speaker 2: move to India so my kids can be Indian and
12:44
Speaker 2: soaphi in that culture, or China or any of these places.
12:48
Speaker 2: And you don't have to be against these places or
12:49
Speaker 2: these people to know that we have something really special
12:52
Speaker 2: in America. And it's definitely seemed like Vivec was just
12:56
Speaker 2: dismissing our specialness.
12:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, isn't it the beauty of America that you
13:01
Speaker 3: can have immigrant families come and bring this like incredible
13:06
Speaker 3: drive and high expectations and it is wetted with a
13:09
Speaker 3: different vibe in America that creates different results. I would
13:14
Speaker 3: also say that I am a laid back person in general,
13:19
Speaker 3: but I was an excellent student, so I am always
13:24
Speaker 3: I am always asking that of my children. That is
13:27
Speaker 3: important to me. That was something I took price.
13:31
Speaker 2: I was a straight B student. I didn't try, and
13:35
Speaker 2: I had parents who are working all the time and
13:37
Speaker 2: didn't really push me. And I don't know for some reason,
13:42
Speaker 2: I do push my kids. I think that like, go ahead,
13:45
Speaker 2: strive for success.
13:46
Speaker 1: You can do it.
13:46
Speaker 2: And I'm, you know, dangerously close to eighty nine is
13:50
Speaker 2: just not good enough.
13:53
Speaker 1: It wouldn't have been good enough for little Mary Catherine.
13:55
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that much.
13:58
Speaker 2: We'll be right back on normal.
14:03
Speaker 1: What do we have up next?
14:05
Speaker 3: I think we have the media slowly but surely coming
14:10
Speaker 3: around to the idea that there was a story that
14:14
Speaker 3: was underreported this year, Carol.
14:17
Speaker 1: If only someone had clipped it. We have a little
14:21
Speaker 1: clip from CBS's Face to the Nation, and this is
14:24
Speaker 1: Jan Crawford talking about what her pick is for most
14:29
Speaker 1: underreported story of twenty twenty four undercovered, underreported.
14:34
Speaker 4: That would be, to me, Joe Biden's obvious cognitive decline
14:38
Speaker 4: that became undeniable in the televised debate the presidential debate
14:42
Speaker 4: was unquestioned. And you know it's starting to emerge now
14:45
Speaker 4: that his advisors kind of managed his limitations been reported
14:51
Speaker 4: in the Wall Street Journal for four years, and yet
14:54
Speaker 4: he insisted that he could still run for president. We
14:56
Speaker 4: should have much more forcefully questioned whether he was fit
15:00
Speaker 4: for office for another four years, which could have led
15:03
Speaker 4: to a primary for the Democrats. It could have changed
15:06
Speaker 4: the scope of the entire election. Yet still, incredibly we
15:11
Speaker 4: read the Washington Post that his advisors are saying that
15:13
Speaker 4: he regrets that he dropped out.
15:15
Speaker 5: Of the race.
15:16
Speaker 4: You know that he thinks he could have beaten Trump,
15:18
Speaker 4: and I think that is either delusional or their gas light.
15:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, obviously it's been a long road to get
15:30
Speaker 2: to this. We all knew what was going on, we
15:34
Speaker 2: all knew that it was not being reported. Having said
15:37
Speaker 2: all that, I don't think that Joe Biden is entirely
15:40
Speaker 2: wrong that he could have done better than Kamala Harris.
15:43
Speaker 2: Maybe he wouldn't have won, but he would have He
15:46
Speaker 2: would have put up a better fight than she did.
15:49
Speaker 3: Interesting, I don't I don't think he would have done
15:51
Speaker 3: much worse, But I don't know.
15:54
Speaker 1: Those numbers before he dropped out were looking pretty bad.
15:58
Speaker 2: They were.
15:58
Speaker 3: I think there's an argument to me made that even
16:00
Speaker 3: though she was bad, her sort of new energy got
16:04
Speaker 3: them back to where a healthier Biden would have been.
16:08
Speaker 3: But this is the problem, is that the press was
16:10
Speaker 3: all saying there's nothing wrong with him, Democrat partisans. But
16:13
Speaker 3: I repeat myself, we're all saying there's nothing.
16:15
Speaker 1: Wrong with him. And the American people saw through it.
16:19
Speaker 3: The whole time. They saw through it the whole time.
16:22
Speaker 3: It was under reported by people who had the access
16:25
Speaker 3: to report it. People who were watching with their eyes
16:29
Speaker 3: could report it to themselves. It was very obvious.
16:34
Speaker 1: Now I don't want to myself.
16:37
Speaker 3: I want to spare Jan Crawford my worst because Jan
16:40
Speaker 3: Crawford is a person who has stuck up for other
16:42
Speaker 3: reporters who were doing the right thing in her CBS organization,
16:46
Speaker 3: which is not easy to do. Remember when Tony Ducopile
16:48
Speaker 3: got in trouble for us for questionings Coats and she
16:53
Speaker 3: stuck up for him. And I think it's the right
16:55
Speaker 3: thing to do to say, hey, we did the wrong
16:58
Speaker 3: thing here or man, this is so late in the game,
17:03
Speaker 3: like under I like how she calls it obvious, right
17:08
Speaker 3: was it obvious? Because if it was obvious, then you
17:10
Speaker 3: guys were hiding it. And the funny thing is, as
17:14
Speaker 3: the as the camera goes around this roundtable, every single
17:16
Speaker 3: person there is like knows they knew and you could
17:20
Speaker 3: see their faces like, are we saying the thing?
17:23
Speaker 1: Are we saying the thing?
17:25
Speaker 2: Right? I also think they're gonna I think they are
17:28
Speaker 2: going to say the thing that we knew I knew.
17:30
Speaker 2: The people love saying that they knew, like when the
17:34
Speaker 2: Harvey Weinstein thing broke and all these celebrities like, oh
17:36
Speaker 2: everybody knew. Everybody knew, Like everybody knew, why did anybody
17:40
Speaker 2: say anything? So I think these media people do actually
17:44
Speaker 2: come around and say end up saying I personally felt something,
17:50
Speaker 2: but I couldn't or I didn't and being apologetic. Chris
17:54
Speaker 2: Khaliza am mis saying his name right, Lisa said something
17:59
Speaker 2: similar to that. He's said that, you know, he takes
18:01
Speaker 2: responsibility for not not not being more forthright about what
18:05
Speaker 2: he thought at the time. So they're going to get there.
18:09
Speaker 1: They are.
18:10
Speaker 3: You also have to look back and remember how much
18:14
Speaker 3: flak the Wall Street Journal reporters took for being the
18:18
Speaker 3: first to report the story pre election. Now it's okay
18:21
Speaker 3: to talk about, right, but pre election, it was not
18:23
Speaker 3: how much flak all the rest of us took for saying, hey,
18:27
Speaker 3: it does kind of look like he's wandering everywhere and
18:29
Speaker 3: being led by the hand and getting explicit questions handed
18:31
Speaker 3: to him to ask of people in stage directions that
18:34
Speaker 3: normal people don't need, and they called all of us crazy.
18:40
Speaker 3: You know, those things should not be dismissed.
18:43
Speaker 4: It.
18:44
Speaker 1: You shouldn't get to come back from having.
18:46
Speaker 3: Made fun of those people and go like, oh, yeah,
18:49
Speaker 3: I guess, I guess we should have done better on that.
18:52
Speaker 2: Right, So this Saliza also, he said as a journalist,
18:56
Speaker 2: I should have pushed harder on the very real questions
18:58
Speaker 2: about Joe Biden's physical until health as president. But of
19:01
Speaker 2: course in August twenty twenty one, he said that questioning
19:06
Speaker 2: Biden's mental capacity is this is the sort of gross,
19:10
Speaker 2: lowest common denominator politics that drive people away from public life.
19:14
Speaker 2: If Republicans have some sort of proof that Biden is declining,
19:17
Speaker 2: they should bring it forward. If they don't, they shouldn't
19:19
Speaker 2: stop doing what they're doing immediately immediately, Mary Catherine, I mean, yeah.
19:26
Speaker 3: This is the problem with the left of center press
19:28
Speaker 3: is that the standard of proof for someone to be
19:32
Speaker 3: accused of something who is on their team is so
19:36
Speaker 3: incredibly high. Like to this day, they're like, oh, I
19:38
Speaker 3: don't know if you can draw a line between Hunter
19:40
Speaker 3: Biden's enrichment and Joe Biden. It's like, yeah, you really can't, guys.
19:46
Speaker 1: It's quite obvious what's happening here.
19:49
Speaker 3: And we have evidence in addition to just the stuff
19:52
Speaker 3: you can see with your eyes. But the standard that
19:55
Speaker 3: they use for their side is so high, unlike the
19:58
Speaker 3: non existent standard that they used for Trump during Russia Gate, right,
20:02
Speaker 3: or just like we'll just keep saying he's a Russian
20:04
Speaker 3: asset and I think that will work, right, that counts
20:06
Speaker 3: as news.
20:07
Speaker 2: I love mentioning Also that you know, Saliza's from CNN
20:12
Speaker 2: and CNN during the Trump presidency brought on a very
20:16
Speaker 2: serious voice to discuss Donald Trump's mental health and that
20:20
Speaker 2: person is Robert de Niro. So yeah, they had Robert
20:25
Speaker 2: DeNiro on to discuss Trump's mental decline, and so that
20:29
Speaker 2: was their standard for Trump. But of course for Republicans
20:33
Speaker 2: to comment on Joe Biden, they needed, you know, some
20:37
Speaker 2: kind of cold, hard evidence other than the recording that
20:40
Speaker 2: we were doing with our own eyes.
20:41
Speaker 1: And ears covering themselves in glory as usual.
20:46
Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break and come right
20:48
Speaker 2: back with normally.
20:52
Speaker 3: You know, I wanted to bring this to your attention, Carol,
20:55
Speaker 3: because I knew you'd appreciate the recurrence of this character
20:58
Speaker 3: from COVID. Doctor Leanna Wynn is back on TV. She
21:04
Speaker 3: was also on Face the Nation. We're picking on Face
21:06
Speaker 3: the Nation today and here she is talking about bird flu.
21:10
Speaker 5: Is this report out of Louisiana worrisome and if so, why, Well,
21:15
Speaker 5: it's one more sign that the drumbeat of bird flu
21:18
Speaker 5: coming closer to humans is becoming a major threat. So
21:22
Speaker 5: we've already seen this year that there have been a
21:24
Speaker 5: number of mammalian species close to humans that now have
21:27
Speaker 5: bird flu outbreaks. We have outbreaks and poultry in all
21:30
Speaker 5: fifty states, sixteen states have outbreaks, and cattle in California.
21:34
Speaker 5: In the last thirty days there have been more than
21:36
Speaker 5: three hundred herds that tested positive. And now we have
21:40
Speaker 5: sixty six cases of bird flu in humans. And this
21:44
Speaker 5: is almost certainly a significant undercount because we have not
21:47
Speaker 5: been doing nearly enough testing, so we really don't know
21:50
Speaker 5: the extent of bird flu that's out there in humans.
21:53
Speaker 5: But this particular case, it's someone who is severely ill.
21:55
Speaker 5: But not only that, researchers have isolated the virus in
21:59
Speaker 5: this individual who is sick in Louisiana and they found
22:02
Speaker 5: that this particular strain of the virus appears to have
22:05
Speaker 5: acquiring mutations that make it more likely to bind to
22:08
Speaker 5: airway receptors.
22:11
Speaker 1: Can you hear my eyes rolling, Carol?
22:15
Speaker 2: I think everybody can hear your eyes rolling.
22:18
Speaker 3: I mean, just the This is the problem that we've
22:21
Speaker 3: talked about before our segment of Still Mad About It,
22:25
Speaker 3: bro is. This is a person who repeatedly inflamed the arguments,
22:35
Speaker 3: seated panic, tried to make things as dramatic as possible,
22:40
Speaker 3: got things horribly wrong throughout COVID. She later came around
22:45
Speaker 3: and switched her messaging as the tides required of her.
22:50
Speaker 1: But she did really, really bad work.
22:53
Speaker 3: And now she's just back on the set saying, oh,
22:58
Speaker 3: same place, run on my running to me again.
23:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:03
Speaker 5: Yeah.
23:04
Speaker 2: She made a lot of mistakes. She at one point
23:07
Speaker 2: predicted a surge that didn't happen. Then she suggested that
23:12
Speaker 2: Americans only get their freedoms back when they get vaccinated,
23:16
Speaker 2: even after we knew the vaccination didn't stop spread. She
23:20
Speaker 2: in July of twenty twenty one, going into the next
23:23
Speaker 2: school year, I always like to point out that it
23:24
Speaker 2: was two school years that they tried to shut down,
23:27
Speaker 2: not just the not just the spring one. That to
23:30
Speaker 2: really three school years, not just the spring one, not
23:33
Speaker 2: just twenty twenty to twenty twenty one. A lot of
23:35
Speaker 2: people tried to shut down the school year following that.
23:38
Speaker 2: Twenty one to twenty two, she said she was very
23:40
Speaker 2: happy that CDC was going to force indoor masking on kids,
23:44
Speaker 2: and then in twenty twenty two she comes out and says,
23:49
Speaker 2: you know there are trade offs. Masking has harmed our
23:52
Speaker 2: son's language development. Also, it limited kids' social interactions and
23:58
Speaker 2: people like me and you might have said it time
24:00
Speaker 2: and I'm sorry. We don't curse very often on here,
24:02
Speaker 2: but no, shit, like, really, it did these terrible things
24:06
Speaker 2: to your kids. It did these terrible things to all kids.
24:08
Speaker 2: So I am just baffled how these TV stations keep
24:14
Speaker 2: bringing her and other people like her on. It's I
24:17
Speaker 2: get it, they're politically aligned. She was just so wrong
24:20
Speaker 2: about so much, like aren't they embarrassed? Aren't they embarrassed
24:24
Speaker 2: to have her on? But they're clearly not.
24:27
Speaker 3: They're clearly not. And that to me was my breaking
24:30
Speaker 3: point with her. I mean, she got a lot of
24:31
Speaker 3: stuff wrong, but the telling everyone that we needed to
24:35
Speaker 3: either in ninety five, every child for the twenty twenty
24:39
Speaker 3: one school year or nothing was insane.
24:44
Speaker 5: I believe.
24:44
Speaker 3: She and I actually gotten a back and forth about
24:46
Speaker 3: it on Twitter. I was like, so, you're saying in
24:49
Speaker 3: ninety five masks like tested and sealed and specific to
24:53
Speaker 3: a child's face to go to school in twenty twenty
24:57
Speaker 3: one is what you're saying. It's just that was irresponsible.
25:01
Speaker 3: This all sounds very similar, like, oh, we don't even
25:04
Speaker 3: know how many cases there are in people because we
25:08
Speaker 3: haven't tested enough. You know, I just nope, I pass.
25:14
Speaker 3: I pass on you guys who did this last time.
25:16
Speaker 3: You can give me other experts who have shown themselves
25:19
Speaker 3: to me self critical and write sometimes.
25:23
Speaker 1: That'd be great.
25:24
Speaker 2: Right, Let's get some Jay Bedicharia on to CNN to
25:27
Speaker 2: tell us what's really going on, because he was right
25:30
Speaker 2: the first time, and I would be open to hearing
25:32
Speaker 2: from him.
25:33
Speaker 1: Yes, there we go.
25:35
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think right exactly. Well, thank you for
25:41
Speaker 2: joining us on Normally normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and
25:44
Speaker 2: you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get in
25:47
Speaker 2: touch with us at normally theepod at gmail dot com.
25:50
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally