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EPSTEIN TRAFFICKING - VICTIM FIGHTS BACK · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Jeffrey Epstein, victim fights back
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Speaker 1: and Tonight tells her story. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: So I was on a photo shoot in early two
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Speaker 2: thousand and another young blonde Polish model said, you know,
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Speaker 2: I have a friend who owns island. He's been so
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Speaker 2: wonderful to me. He got me my visa to live
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Speaker 2: in the United States. I just said, okay, sure, I'll
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Speaker 2: go with you. A young blonde girl knocked on my
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Speaker 2: door and told myself that Jeffrey needed a massage.
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Speaker 3: A massage.
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Speaker 1: Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. A massage
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Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein turns into full on rape. Why is
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Speaker 1: someone covering for Jeffrey Epstein? Why have we been lied
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Speaker 1: to over and over and over? When I say the
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Speaker 1: US attorney, a lot of people are like, what's the
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Speaker 1: US attorney? The US attorney is the top cop for
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Speaker 1: our nation, our whole country. Now, state to state, you
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Speaker 1: may have one or more US attorneys. They are federal
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Speaker 1: prosecutors appointed to prosecute the state's business and represent victims.
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Speaker 3: For instance, in Georgia.
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Speaker 1: There are three, the Northern, Middle, and Southern District US Attorneys.
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Speaker 3: In every state.
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Speaker 1: There are US attorneys and they are all governed by one,
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Speaker 1: the US attorney. Now, I want you to hear what
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Speaker 1: the US attorney Bondi said about having a client list
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Speaker 1: and all the steam files right on her desk.
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Speaker 3: Okay, listen, the.
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Speaker 2: DOJ may be released the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.
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Speaker 1: Well, that really happen.
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Speaker 3: It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's
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Speaker 3: been a directive by President Trump. It goes on and
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Speaker 3: on and on.
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Speaker 1: But that's the pertinent part, and that is from our
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Speaker 1: friend John Roberts over at Fox News. We were told
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Speaker 1: there's video, there are flight logs, there are names of clients.
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Speaker 1: Now we're being told, yeah, I don't know why I
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Speaker 1: said that. Don't listen to me, that's wrong. But tonight
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Speaker 1: joining us is a woman that knows better. Now, who
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Speaker 1: are we going to believe her or BONDI? What is
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Speaker 1: the truth at this hour as we go to air tonight,
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Speaker 1: victims Epstein victims are banding together to create a client list.
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Speaker 1: I'm going to get to that in just a moment,
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Speaker 1: But first I want to introduce you a very special guest.
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Speaker 3: A Jeffrey Epstein survivor. I hate to always say.
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Speaker 1: Victim because Lisa Phillips has gone on to become a warrior.
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Speaker 1: Yes she's a mother of three. Yes, she's a gorgeous
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Speaker 1: former Ford Agency model. Yes, she's been in a major
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Speaker 1: motion picture among many things. Any given Sunday, a lot
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Speaker 1: of people have seen that she's in it. She's beautiful,
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Speaker 1: she's accomplished, she's articulate. She's also a Jeffrey Epstein victim
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Speaker 1: now survivor, slash warrior.
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Speaker 3: Lisa, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: Thank you, Nancy, and thank you for calling me a warrior.
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Speaker 2: That means so much to me, especially in this climate
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Speaker 2: right now.
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Speaker 1: You are you know, all over our country, Lisa. Sex
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Speaker 1: attack victims don't speak out for a number of reasons.
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Speaker 1: I mean I could rattle off many many cases that
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Speaker 1: I personally investigated and prosecuted where the victim did not
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Speaker 1: want to.
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Speaker 3: Come forward for so many different reasons.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I had one victim that was repeatedly raped, ag assaulted,
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Speaker 1: and locked into a car trunk, and she and her
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Speaker 1: culture believed to be raped was taboo and that she
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Speaker 1: was the.
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Speaker 3: Bad person, that it was all her fault.
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Speaker 1: So on the stand and her husband was sitting there,
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Speaker 1: she did not want him or anybody else to know
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Speaker 1: she was raped.
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Speaker 3: We could talk about.
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Speaker 1: The agassault, the beating, the tying of the hands, the putting.
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Speaker 3: In the trunk, but we couldn't talk about the rape.
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Speaker 1: She would not admit it, even though she secretly told
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Speaker 1: people she was raped, and the rape kit nurse agreed
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Speaker 1: she had been raped.
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Speaker 3: So, I mean, there's.
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Speaker 1: A million reasons why victims don't come forward. Sometimes they're afraid. Sometimes,
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Speaker 1: like in your case, we already know of estimating between
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Speaker 1: five and twenty people have died connected to the Epstein case.
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Speaker 1: So you are representing victims of assault and attack, and
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Speaker 1: they're listening to you tonight, and they're looking at you,
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Speaker 1: and they're seeing you speak out. I want to go
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Speaker 1: back in time. Oh, by the way, did I mention?
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Speaker 1: Lisa is a host of a hit podcast called From
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Speaker 1: now On, where she interviews other crime victims and talks
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Speaker 1: about moving forward. Now, let's talk about moving forward the
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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein case. How did you meet Jeffrey Epstein? Mayhe
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Speaker 1: rot in hell?
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Speaker 2: Well? I just want to say thank you for that intro.
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Speaker 2: The survivors are here because we are fed up and
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Speaker 2: we are not victims. We do not like to be
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Speaker 2: called victims. We are survivors. And what that means is
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Speaker 2: we are on the path of healing and making choices
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Speaker 2: that will move the investigation along because we feel like
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Speaker 2: we have answers that can help. And so this whole time,
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Speaker 2: we're thinking, wait a second, you know this person, you
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Speaker 2: saw this person, you were at the island, you were there.
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Speaker 2: How can we connect the dots? And so that's what
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Speaker 2: we realized. You know what, We're taking our power back
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Speaker 2: because what happened to me on that island back in
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Speaker 2: two thousand should have never have happened. I was brought
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Speaker 2: there by another young girl. And that was the genius
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Speaker 2: of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking ring, as he got other
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Speaker 2: girls and young women to bring more. And there was
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Speaker 2: this layers and layers of girls. As you hear the
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Speaker 2: young Florida girls, they all were brought there by other
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Speaker 2: young underage girls. And the same with me on the island.
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Speaker 2: I was brought there by another girl in her early
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Speaker 2: twenties who thought Jeffrey was the world. I mean, she
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Speaker 2: was groomed to think that. But you know, she convinced me, Oh,
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Speaker 2: it's not a big deal to jump on a boat
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Speaker 2: and go over to an island and see this wonderful
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Speaker 2: person and hang out for the day. So that's what
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Speaker 2: I did.
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Speaker 1: So when you flew, when you were flown to the island,
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Speaker 1: what do you think was going to happen, Lisa.
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Speaker 2: Nancy, I took a boat to the island because I
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Speaker 2: was next I was at Tortola, the island next door.
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Speaker 1: Hold on, that's significant. Why is that significant? How you
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Speaker 1: got to the island Because a lot of these girls,
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Speaker 1: as young as twelve years old were brought in from
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Speaker 1: other countries, particularly the stands Uzbekistan, from Turkey, from Russia.
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Speaker 1: They were flown yes to the mainland, and then they
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Speaker 1: were put on a ferry that ferried them over to
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Speaker 1: Epstein's Island in the US. Virgin Islands, by the way,
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Speaker 1: is under US jurisdiction, so we can prosecute cases there.
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Speaker 3: You're right.
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Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, because when I try case,
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Speaker 1: I like to corroborate in my witness because every victim
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Speaker 1: is going to be attacked on cross examination, and we
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Speaker 1: just saw that in the Shawn Comes case, the two
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Speaker 1: victims had.
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Speaker 3: Photos and videos of them being beaten, covered in bruises.
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Speaker 1: They described vomiting after attacks in the shower and being
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Speaker 1: forced out back into a.
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Speaker 3: Freak off party, i e. Rape.
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Speaker 1: Even then, the jury believed that they were on the take,
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Speaker 1: that this was all about them getting some kind of
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Speaker 1: money settlement. So, long story short, I try to corroborate
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Speaker 1: victims even when I believe them for the jury. What
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Speaker 1: you just said is what all these then little girls
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Speaker 1: said they were loan to the mainland and then they
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Speaker 1: were ferried to the island. Is that an element of
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Speaker 1: proof of a felony? No, but it corroborates their story.
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Speaker 1: So tell me how that worked. Every fact is important, Lisa.
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Speaker 1: So you're flown to.
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Speaker 3: The mainland and then you take a ferry. Is that
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Speaker 3: what you're saying?
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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, basically the same thing. I was on the
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Speaker 2: US version islands as well and as well and taken
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Speaker 2: by boat over to his island. What kind of boat
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Speaker 2: like a ferry boat?
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Speaker 1: So somebody picked you up at a dock, you got on,
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Speaker 1: they took you over, and they dropped you off at an
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Speaker 1: appointed spot.
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Speaker 3: Is that correct?
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Speaker 2: That's correct?
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Speaker 1: That is exactly what the other victims say. Victims you
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Speaker 1: haven't even spoken to or or you don't know their names.
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Speaker 3: So amazing how your.
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Speaker 1: Stories already are like a fingerprint story.
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Speaker 3: They fit exactly.
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Speaker 1: Okay, you get to Epstein's island and what happens.
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Speaker 3: Well, An, That's the.
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Speaker 2: Reason why I started speaking out in the first place,
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Speaker 2: is because when I would hear the victim's story, I
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Speaker 2: would say, wait a second, that happened to me too,
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Speaker 2: you know, so it would happen over and over with
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Speaker 2: that happened to me, Or you know, I can I
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Speaker 2: can stand up for them, you know, I can be
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Speaker 2: the one to stick up for them. That's what I
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Speaker 2: was thinking in the beginning, but it hasn't really turned
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Speaker 2: out that way. So on the island, we actually had
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Speaker 2: a really good time on the island for the first
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Speaker 2: several hours, hanging out at the pool, and you know,
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Speaker 2: we had a wonderful dinner where I met Jeffrey Epstein.
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Speaker 2: And Jeffrey is charming and he's very intelligent, and he's
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Speaker 2: locked in on you. He already knew all the other
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Speaker 2: young girls at the table, so he locked in on me.
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Speaker 2: You know, I had grown up in Oxford, England as
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Speaker 2: a child, and so we had that connection. And I
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Speaker 2: knew a lot about art, and I had traveled around
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Speaker 2: the world quite a bit already at that point, and
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Speaker 2: so we had a lot to talk about. And he
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Speaker 2: said he found me fascinating, and he said I was
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Speaker 2: at a powerful presence. He said all these wonderful things
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Speaker 2: to me, and he just built me up.
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Speaker 1: And wait a minute, White a manu at White, a
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Speaker 1: minute at hold on Hold a Ford model for twelve years,
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Speaker 1: you don't know when some man is blowing smoke up
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Speaker 1: your skirt you have a powerful presence.
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Speaker 3: What does that even mean?
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Speaker 2: Well, I wasn't a Ford model yet. I wasn't a
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Speaker 2: Ford model yet. And I was like, you know, I
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Speaker 2: had grown up, I had left, I grow I graduate
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Speaker 2: high school in Belgium with fifty people. So I was
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Speaker 2: a little naive. And also I didn't have that confidence
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Speaker 2: that a lot of girls that have wonderful fathers that
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Speaker 2: are calling them every day and building them up and
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Speaker 2: saying I'm proud of you. And I had I think
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Speaker 2: low self esteem when it came to men, because I
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Speaker 2: just didn't have that father daughter relationship that was powerful
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Speaker 2: and strong and made me feel confident. I think I
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Speaker 2: just always felt a little worthless, and that you know,
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Speaker 2: I could never be enough for my family or for
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Speaker 2: my father.
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Speaker 1: And so attention you, Lisa Phillips. Okay, do I have
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Speaker 1: the right Lisa Phillips. This is the woman that started
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Speaker 1: in any given Sunday and it's four model, twelve years and.
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Speaker 3: You felt insecure? What does that? I mean?
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Speaker 1: What does that leave me and everybody else just as
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Speaker 1: mere mortals? Okay, so you feel insecure. So you and
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Speaker 1: we're very young and a very sheltered upbringing. So when
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Speaker 1: someone talks to you like that and gives you this attention,
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Speaker 1: you were still what were you twenty one?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was in my early twenties.
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Speaker 3: Yes, you were flattered. You were flattered. You said something earlier.
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Speaker 1: About the genius of Jeffrey Epstein, how he would get
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Speaker 1: young girls to bring in other girls, and I wanted
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Speaker 1: everyone to keep in mind that the young girls were
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Speaker 1: very often as young as thirteen. Now you just said
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Speaker 1: something that again echoes exactly what other Epstein victims have said.
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Speaker 3: I want you to listen. Listen to this.
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Speaker 4: And when I got into the massage room, Jeffrey Epstein
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Speaker 4: undressed and asked me to do things to him. My
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Speaker 4: eyes welled up with tears, and I have never been
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Speaker 4: more scared in my life. When it was over, he
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Speaker 4: paid me two hundred dollars and requested in exchange that
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Speaker 4: I bring a girl each time to make another two
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Speaker 4: hundred dollars. I told him I did not want to
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Speaker 4: do that, and then he gave me an ultimatum. I
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Speaker 4: felt in hope to never hear from him again, but
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Speaker 4: he called me every day. He was so wealthy and powerful,
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Speaker 4: and he would not let me goet. I had no
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Speaker 4: choice if I disobeyed him. I knew something bad would happen.
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Speaker 1: That's exactly what Lisa Phillips is saying she observed, and
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Speaker 1: a completely different location at a different time. Now, what
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Speaker 1: you were hearing is from at Rep. Thomas Massey on
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Speaker 1: X and you were hearing Haley Robson talking about when
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Speaker 1: she first met Epstein, she was a little girl and
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Speaker 1: he raped her, gave her two hundred dollars, like throwing
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Speaker 1: down a twenty at the waffle house. You know, big
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Speaker 1: man throwing around two hundred dollars to a little girl,
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Speaker 1: and he was asking the little girl, now adult Hallie
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Speaker 1: Robson to bring other little girls in for him to rape,
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Speaker 1: and I want you to hear what happened.
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Speaker 4: I started to bring him other girls from my high school,
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Speaker 4: and he paid me two hundred dollars two hundred dollars
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Speaker 4: for bringing them. I just hoped each time it would
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Speaker 4: be the last time. One day, the stepmom of one
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Speaker 4: of the girls brought him and called the police on
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Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein. The police then called me, called me in
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Speaker 4: for questioning. I had told them the truth, despite the
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Speaker 4: fact that I was a teenager and a miner, and
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Speaker 4: I was able to tell the police the names of
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Speaker 4: all the other victims.
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Speaker 1: And she goes on Lisa to state, the police made
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Speaker 1: me feel like I was the criminal because I, as
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Speaker 1: a girl, had brought him other girls. But he made
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Speaker 1: me and somehow she turns into the bad person and
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Speaker 1: he doesn't get prosecuted down there in Palm Beach County.
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Speaker 3: Again, that's from at Rep.
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Speaker 1: Thomas Massey on X That mirrors exactly what you called
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Speaker 1: the genius. I guess, evil genius Jeffrey Epstein.
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Speaker 2: It was. It was evil genius. He had it down
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Speaker 2: so good that he made the girls feel guilty for
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Speaker 2: bringing other girls. But he made you do that, and
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Speaker 2: like she said, he would call you every day. His
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Speaker 2: secretaries would call every single day. They would hound you.
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Speaker 2: When I got back from the island, they hounded me
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Speaker 2: for four months straight every day until I would change
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Speaker 2: my mind to go in and meet with him again.
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Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, let me circle back to when
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Speaker 1: you met with him the first time. So we left
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Speaker 1: off with you being told you had a powerful presence.
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Speaker 1: I mean, right there, I would say, no, got to
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Speaker 1: get powerful presence, my rare end.
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Speaker 3: But what happened after that?
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Speaker 2: Jeffrey always said things to build you up, so he
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Speaker 2: was more of a mentor to a lot of these
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Speaker 2: girls when we were sitting together at Capitol Hill. You
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Speaker 2: have to understand it is a very confusing thing because
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Speaker 2: you know his grooming process is to eventually abuse you,
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Speaker 2: but in between, he's like a wonderful mentor, so he
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Speaker 2: builds you up the way you've never been built up before.
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Speaker 2: Whoa hold on seems in.
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Speaker 3: Your alformation Jeffrey eb saying a mentor. Okay, wait a minute.
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Speaker 1: I know he promised to get people jobs and modeling
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Speaker 1: gigs and parts on movies.
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Speaker 3: Did he ever come through with any of that?
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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I've never spoken to anyone in his
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Speaker 2: world that he didn't come through on everything. He said.
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Speaker 2: That's the reason why he got away with everything, because
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Speaker 2: he made everything happen.
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Speaker 1: So he would set people up with gigs and get
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Speaker 1: them actual jobs.
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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about gigs, but if you were
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Speaker 2: interested in law, he helped you out. If you're interested
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Speaker 2: in art, he helped you out with getting a position
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Speaker 2: at art gallery. I know TV hosts, actresses, many women
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Speaker 2: who have successful businesses because of Jeffrey. Actually, I know
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Speaker 2: many that have husbands because of Jeffrey as well. So
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Speaker 2: he did do a lot of good things for you
17:30
Speaker 2: because he had to, because that's how what you had
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Speaker 2: to do is let him ripe you. Yeah, I mean
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Speaker 2: he was also very sneaky about that. With massages, it
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Speaker 2: was always a massage. It was always a real massage,
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Speaker 2: you know. So that's what these girls are saying. And
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Speaker 2: I was hoping it was the last time I would
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Speaker 2: have this massage. And then sometimes a massage would turn
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Speaker 2: it into molestation or rape. Jeffrey is ready for his massage.
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Speaker 2: I was just like, what are you talking about?
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Speaker 3: What massage?
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Speaker 2: The other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes, you know, massages,
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Speaker 2: you just have to do it. I was trapped on
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Speaker 2: the island. I didn't know where to go. I just,
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Speaker 2: you know, follow the girl into his room to do
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Speaker 2: the massage with this other young girl, and I ended
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Speaker 2: up being abused on that island.
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Speaker 3: So, guys, Lisa Phillips with us tonight, just amazing.
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Speaker 1: Beautiful, articulate, brilliant, has seen the world and is.
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Speaker 3: A survivor of Jeffrey Epstein.
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Speaker 1: You know, I was just thinking about, as I was
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Speaker 1: rattling off all your accomplishments earlier, what do you make
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Speaker 1: of so many Epstein victims dying? I feel like we're
18:36
Speaker 1: in Russia. Whenever anyone speaks ill of Putin, they suddenly
18:40
Speaker 1: jump out a window and die, or they get poison
18:42
Speaker 1: and die. A lot of suicides connected to Putin. I mean,
18:47
Speaker 1: I'm going to go hide under the bed after tonight.
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Speaker 1: But what do you make of so many people? I
18:54
Speaker 1: can count off five just on my off the top
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Speaker 1: of my head. But I've read other reports up in
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Speaker 1: the twenties. I mean, you've got Virginia Giffrey, you have
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Speaker 1: Jean Luke Brunei that was his French counterpart, Renell his
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Speaker 1: French counterpart. I mean, there's so many other reports up
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Speaker 1: to twenty. Do you ever think about that you have
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Speaker 1: three boys to raise and victims are dropping like flies
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Speaker 1: before they can testify. Does that concern you?
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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I knew Virginia, and I've spoken a
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Speaker 2: lot to her family and all of her friends and survivors,
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Speaker 2: and unfortunately there's quite a few survivors that have passed away.
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Speaker 2: But I mean, I hope it wasn't anything darker. But
19:44
Speaker 2: what we believe with the cycle of abuse is it's
19:47
Speaker 2: something that you just never get over and it torments you.
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Speaker 2: And certain individuals they can't take it and they can't
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Speaker 2: take their life. And like Virginia, she was fighting so
19:55
Speaker 2: hard to bring these powerful men down and she was
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Speaker 2: just losing every fight. And no amount of money is
20:02
Speaker 2: going to say to you and keep you happy. It
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Speaker 2: just doesn't work that way.
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Speaker 1: Lisa, speaking of all of the people that have committed
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Speaker 1: suicide or died accidentally connected to the Epstein case, I
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Speaker 1: was first referring to Epstein's French counterpart, Jean Luke Brennell.
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Speaker 3: Listen.
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Speaker 5: When Epstein was in jail in Florida in two thousand
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Speaker 5: and eight, Jean Luke Brenell visited him seventy times. Virginia
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Speaker 5: Giuffrey alleged that she was sexually trafficked by Epstein and
20:32
Speaker 5: Maxwell to several high profile individuals, including Brunell, while she
20:36
Speaker 5: was under age. After Epstein's death, Brunell went into hiding.
20:39
Speaker 5: He was arrested December sixteenth, twenty twenty, investigated for rape,
20:43
Speaker 5: sexual assault, in human trafficking, and charged with drugging and
20:46
Speaker 5: raping a seventeen year old girl. Brunell was found dead
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Speaker 5: in his berege In jail cell, allegedly hanging himself two
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Speaker 5: years after Epstein's death.
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Speaker 3: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 1: And in addition to Jean Luke Brenell, there is Carolyn Andriano.
21:10
Speaker 5: When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing
21:14
Speaker 5: Carolyn Andreano and continued to abuse her for the next
21:17
Speaker 5: four years. Testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial for
21:21
Speaker 5: sex trafficking minors. Carol and Andreano found dead in a
21:24
Speaker 5: West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age of
21:26
Speaker 5: thirty six, leaving behind a husband of five children. West
21:30
Speaker 5: Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.
21:33
Speaker 1: So we've got one suicide of Jean Luke Brenell, then
21:37
Speaker 1: we have one accidental overdose of Carolyn Andreano.
21:43
Speaker 3: Listen.
21:43
Speaker 5: Carolyn Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have died
21:47
Speaker 5: of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.
21:50
Speaker 5: The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee
21:53
Speaker 5: Sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach
21:55
Speaker 5: hotel from an accidental drug overdose. Patrick's twin sister, Patrick says,
22:00
Speaker 5: leet guy suffered tremendously and it all started with Epstein.
22:04
Speaker 1: And then, of course there are questions still swirling about
22:08
Speaker 1: the death off Virginia Giffrey.
22:10
Speaker 5: Royal experts say the death of Virginia Jeffrey cements Prince
22:14
Speaker 5: Andrew's place of shame with no hope of ever rehabilitating
22:17
Speaker 5: his image. The ball was fast, as Virginia Jeffrey not
22:20
Speaker 5: only accused the Prince of sexual abuse, she had a
22:23
Speaker 5: picture taken with the fallen royal on the cover of
22:25
Speaker 5: every news outlet in the world. When Epstein was arrested,
22:29
Speaker 5: Royal expert Richard Fitzwilliams tells Fox News Digital Virginia Jeffrey
22:33
Speaker 5: was ultimately a tragic victim of a brutal pedophile. Any
22:37
Speaker 5: hope Andrew may have had of casting doubt on her
22:39
Speaker 5: evidence no longer exists. Prince Andrew's stripped of his royal
22:43
Speaker 5: and military titles. Jeffrey's death creates more negativity as the
22:47
Speaker 5: allegations jump back into the headlines. According to one royal watcher,
22:50
Speaker 5: Jeffrey's death does not exonerate him, but merely closes the matter.
22:55
Speaker 1: And then, last but not least, Jeffrey Epstein himself come
22:59
Speaker 1: in suicide.
23:00
Speaker 5: There's no way the guy can commit suicide from the
23:03
Speaker 5: clothing they gave him, to the types of sheet that
23:05
Speaker 5: he had to cover himself with while he slapped. It
23:07
Speaker 5: was described as something a little bit thicker than paper,
23:10
Speaker 5: but not strong enough to hold the weight of an individual.
23:13
Speaker 5: There are no bars in the cell, there's no light fixtures.
23:16
Speaker 5: There's nothing that you can tie on to if you
23:18
Speaker 5: had something to tie up and make a noose. His
23:21
Speaker 5: former cellmate said, there was no way this could happen. Now.
23:24
Speaker 5: The guards is supposed to be looking in on him
23:26
Speaker 5: every couple of minutes. They were supposed to be viewed
23:29
Speaker 5: physically every twenty minutes. So you've got an impossible situation
23:33
Speaker 5: being sold to the public as reality.
23:35
Speaker 1: So Lisa, neither you nor I, neither of us are
23:39
Speaker 1: forensic experts. But I find it hard to believe that
23:43
Speaker 1: between five and twenty people have all died of accidental
23:47
Speaker 1: overdoses and suicides, all connected to Epstein.
23:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how to explain it.
23:56
Speaker 1: Back to that night when you met Epstein. Okay, you
24:00
Speaker 1: stay that you were told, Hey, it's just a massage,
24:03
Speaker 1: you have to do it.
24:06
Speaker 3: Who tells you that?
24:07
Speaker 2: The girl who brought me there?
24:09
Speaker 3: How did she bring you there? How did that happen?
24:12
Speaker 2: We were both booked for a photoshoot on Tortola Island.
24:17
Speaker 2: It was a British crew. We were both shooting covers
24:20
Speaker 2: of the magazine and a full on story spread inside.
24:24
Speaker 2: So we were booked for four days on that island.
24:26
Speaker 2: Then we had one day that was off, and so
24:30
Speaker 2: that's why she suggested that we go over to Jeffrey's
24:34
Speaker 2: Island for the day.
24:35
Speaker 3: How does she know Epstein?
24:37
Speaker 2: She was Eastern European and a lot of young models
24:42
Speaker 2: that have agencies in Europe, probably linked to Jean luth Burnelle,
24:45
Speaker 2: but I'm not sure if she is, but I know
24:47
Speaker 2: quite a few of them were. They helped them to
24:51
Speaker 2: come over and Jeffrey secure as their visa for them.
24:54
Speaker 2: So once they do that, of course they're very grateful
24:58
Speaker 2: to Jeffrey for that, but then can continue to abuse
25:01
Speaker 2: them and traffic those girls out, so they're stuck in
25:05
Speaker 2: this cycle. So that's why she has this loop going, Oh,
25:07
Speaker 2: he's great, He's wonderful, because yeah, part of her probably
25:10
Speaker 2: does believe because he has helped her out immensely with
25:14
Speaker 2: her life, but he's abusing her. And I know for
25:18
Speaker 2: sure she was being trafficked.
25:19
Speaker 3: When you say trafficked, what exactly do you.
25:22
Speaker 2: Mean, Well, Jeffery's other powerful friends. She would have to
25:27
Speaker 2: go and spend time with them. He would make her
25:31
Speaker 2: go spend time with them.
25:33
Speaker 3: What did they do? Sit by the fireside and knit?
25:35
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, most of the time it ends in some type
25:39
Speaker 2: of sexual assault.
25:40
Speaker 3: We Lisa, how do you know that I knew.
25:44
Speaker 2: A lot of people in New York back then. I
25:47
Speaker 2: have a very outgoing personality. I love people, and I
25:51
Speaker 2: just knew a lot of models and ambitious young women
25:54
Speaker 2: during that time. And I know at least sixty that
25:58
Speaker 2: have never come forward because they have good lives and
26:01
Speaker 2: they don't. They want to forget about it, and they
26:03
Speaker 2: want to suppress it, and they're comfortable doing that. And
26:06
Speaker 2: I sometimes I think it I would have been better
26:08
Speaker 2: if I had done that.
26:09
Speaker 1: Lisa, Why do you say that, well, just because that
26:12
Speaker 1: sometimes you think it would have been better if you
26:14
Speaker 1: just never said anything.
26:15
Speaker 2: Oh, Nancy, you know it's you know, I suppressed it
26:18
Speaker 2: for fifteen years, and I feel like my life was
26:21
Speaker 2: so much better when you just act like nothing happened,
26:26
Speaker 2: you know, But the shame is always there, you know,
26:28
Speaker 2: it's there, and the confusion was always there for me.
26:32
Speaker 2: And so I could have been like a lot of
26:34
Speaker 2: these girls, hundreds of them in New York, hundreds of
26:37
Speaker 2: them eighteen to twenty four. I would think there was
26:40
Speaker 2: even more in New York than there wasn't Florida, because
26:43
Speaker 2: you can get away with a lot more with eighteen
26:45
Speaker 2: to twenty two year olds. So those women, they went
26:49
Speaker 2: on to do wonderful things with their life. They were
26:51
Speaker 2: beautiful and tall and attractive, and they got a lot
26:55
Speaker 2: of good things from Jeffrey. In a way, their life
26:59
Speaker 2: is good. But I think most of them, when you
27:04
Speaker 2: suppress that pain, you have that shame that's still there,
27:07
Speaker 2: and many things manifest from that illness, disease, mental illness
27:12
Speaker 2: and things like that. So you know, it's sometimes I
27:17
Speaker 2: just say that, Nancy, just because maybe I shouldn't have
27:19
Speaker 2: taken this path. I mean, now that I've gone, you know,
27:22
Speaker 2: to DC, this has secured it for me that I'm
27:25
Speaker 2: on the right path, But prior to that, sometimes I'm like,
27:28
Speaker 2: why am I doing this to myself? Why am I
27:30
Speaker 2: in four hours a week of therapy talking about this.
27:35
Speaker 2: You know, it's tough. It's not easy to go through
27:37
Speaker 2: healing and therapy, Lisa.
27:40
Speaker 1: I've met so many crime victims say exactly what you're saying.
27:45
Speaker 2: Me.
27:47
Speaker 1: I hate it when someone out of the believe asked
27:50
Speaker 1: me about my fiancees murder, because I can be having
27:53
Speaker 1: a perfectly fine day and then that happens, and more
27:57
Speaker 1: often than not, it's like somebody just threw a bucket
27:59
Speaker 1: of water on me, and I have to think about
28:02
Speaker 1: it him getting shot over and over and over, and
28:06
Speaker 1: what did he feel, and did he know what happened
28:08
Speaker 1: and how badly did it hurt? And what life would
28:11
Speaker 1: have been like if he hadn't been murdered, and just
28:14
Speaker 1: it's really upsetting, and you go right back to the
28:18
Speaker 1: moment that everything happened.
28:20
Speaker 3: So I hear you. I hear you.
28:24
Speaker 1: And with rape victims especially, they also, in addition to
28:31
Speaker 1: what I just said, feel like it's their fault, like
28:35
Speaker 1: I went to the island, or I went to his mansion.
28:38
Speaker 1: Of course he thought we were going to have six.
28:39
Speaker 1: That's just completely beast atwards. But that is how rape
28:43
Speaker 1: victims feel. They feel like it's their fault.
28:46
Speaker 3: You know.
28:46
Speaker 1: I keep getting you right to the point where you're
28:50
Speaker 1: on the island with another supermodel like yourself, and she says, oh,
28:54
Speaker 1: he's great, Oh he's wonderful. How in the hat did
28:56
Speaker 1: it get to You've got to give him a massage.
28:59
Speaker 2: Just like that. It was so quick, it was a
29:03
Speaker 2: wonderful day, just a normal day. And then right when
29:06
Speaker 2: it was time, everything changed. Everything went dark. The whole
29:10
Speaker 2: island looked different. The walk to his bedroom, the anticipation,
29:15
Speaker 2: in the anxiousness of like, what the frick is going
29:17
Speaker 2: on here? And I'm looking at her and I could
29:20
Speaker 2: see she has a little fear in her eyes. You know,
29:22
Speaker 2: something was wrong with her because she didn't want to
29:24
Speaker 2: do it, you know, But it's just something. She took
29:27
Speaker 2: a deep breath and she was like, we have to
29:28
Speaker 2: do it, and so I just went with her because.
29:32
Speaker 3: I didn't really I had a choice. I was literally trapped.
29:34
Speaker 2: On an island at that point. There was nowhere to run,
29:37
Speaker 2: and I was scared to death of saying no, I'm
29:38
Speaker 2: not going to do it. I didn't have it in
29:39
Speaker 2: Me'd be like, no way, you know, I just couldn't
29:43
Speaker 2: do it. I just froze and just went with her.
29:46
Speaker 2: And then what happened, Well, like the genius of Jeffrey Epstein,
29:51
Speaker 2: it was a real massage. It really was. It was playful,
29:55
Speaker 2: and he was funny, and he was now asking personal,
29:58
Speaker 2: flirty questions, and you know, he tries to make it
30:02
Speaker 2: seem like it's no big deal. You know, that's how
30:06
Speaker 2: he is, until then he turns. There's a little darkness.
30:10
Speaker 2: There's a little there's a lot of darkness in Jeffrey Epstein.
30:13
Speaker 2: So he has this mask. If I'm your mentor, I'm
30:15
Speaker 2: going to help you out. I'm this great, caring, wonderful person.
30:19
Speaker 2: Look at all my rich, powerful friends. He has a
30:21
Speaker 2: six steer that pools, you know, young women in because
30:24
Speaker 2: he makes them feel really safe, and he makes you
30:27
Speaker 2: feel seen and heard, that's for sure. But then there's
30:30
Speaker 2: a darkness that which is when he just wants to
30:32
Speaker 2: get what he wants and so he loves massages. He does.
30:35
Speaker 2: That is his baseline is massages. But then it always
30:39
Speaker 2: switches until some type of a little bit of torture,
30:44
Speaker 2: you know, if he wants to hurt you a little
30:46
Speaker 2: bit with his with his hands and with objects, and
30:53
Speaker 2: with the fact that he can control the two young
30:55
Speaker 2: women in the room. So it was it was scary.
30:59
Speaker 4: It was.
31:02
Speaker 2: I just I'm traumatized every time I think about it. And
31:04
Speaker 2: I know you have to ask these questions, but it
31:06
Speaker 2: was just the worst night of my life.
31:09
Speaker 3: What do you mean by.
31:12
Speaker 1: Power and control over the women and hurting them?
31:16
Speaker 2: Well, I think people just think of Jeffrey as like
31:18
Speaker 2: this old rich guy just wanted to be around these girls.
31:21
Speaker 2: He was a master manipulator. And if you could manipulate
31:27
Speaker 2: and basically groom grown powerful men, which is what he did.
31:32
Speaker 2: Because nobody even knows what he did. He's so mysterious.
31:36
Speaker 2: What do you think he can do to young girls?
31:39
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you think he was doing to us?
31:42
Speaker 2: And they try to blame us and victimize us and
31:46
Speaker 2: just say that you should have know. I had so
31:48
Speaker 2: many comments. You shouldn't known better. Oh you just wanted money.
31:50
Speaker 2: Oh no, we did not want money, and we did
31:53
Speaker 2: not know better. It was any situation that could have
31:56
Speaker 2: been normal. It could have been normal trip, just like
31:59
Speaker 2: every other one I've been on with people, powerful people
32:03
Speaker 2: in the malling and entertainment industry. They don't turn out
32:06
Speaker 2: like this. But Jeffrey has an mo. He does massages
32:10
Speaker 2: with young girls, and then he gets them to trust them,
32:12
Speaker 2: He grooms them, He gets them to believe they're powerful
32:16
Speaker 2: and they could do anything in their lives. I'm speaking
32:19
Speaker 2: for the eighteen and over in New York and a
32:22
Speaker 2: lot of actually actually a lot of the younger girls
32:24
Speaker 2: said the same thing too. But he just masterfully manipulates
32:28
Speaker 2: you and then he takes what he wants from you,
32:31
Speaker 2: which is your innocence. And at that age I was
32:34
Speaker 2: still pretty innocent. I was also five feet nine and
32:36
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifteen pounds. It look like a little boy,
32:40
Speaker 2: so he knew what he was doing.
32:44
Speaker 3: Lisa, did he molest you? Yes?
32:48
Speaker 1: And then you said the secretary would then call you
32:55
Speaker 1: non stop to get you to bring other girls women
33:00
Speaker 1: to the island. I'm getting ahead of myself after he
33:05
Speaker 1: molested you. I'm sorry, you know. I'm asking you this, Lisa,
33:13
Speaker 1: because people don't think it happened, because Pam Bondy has
33:19
Speaker 1: her thumb up her rear end, because no one is
33:24
Speaker 1: doing anything, because Glaine Maxwell is on the verge of
33:28
Speaker 1: walking free. I'm not letting it go because there are
33:34
Speaker 1: other clients that statutory raped girls and that forced young
33:41
Speaker 1: women into unwanted sex. That's rape, and nothing is being done.
33:49
Speaker 1: And I don't get it. I don't get why we're
33:52
Speaker 1: being lied to. And I see you sitting there crying,
33:59
Speaker 1: and it's like pouring gas on a fire.
34:02
Speaker 3: To me to think nothing has been done. Nothing. I
34:09
Speaker 3: also don't believe he committed suicide. This totally es yes
34:15
Speaker 3: back to you after he molested you. What did he do?
34:21
Speaker 1: Did he give you money? Did he act like nothing happened?
34:23
Speaker 1: Did he act like you're on a first date? What
34:25
Speaker 1: did he do?
34:26
Speaker 2: It's just masterfully genius the way he is. You called
34:31
Speaker 2: it out, just acts like there was nothing wrong with this.
34:34
Speaker 2: I mean, Jeffrey would say, I mean, you're just gonna
34:36
Speaker 2: go hang out with a twenty four year old guy
34:38
Speaker 2: who's going to use and abuse you. What's the difference.
34:40
Speaker 2: You're going to hang out with me and get something
34:42
Speaker 2: out of it. He used to say stuff like that.
34:44
Speaker 2: It's like, huh, hanging out out with me.
34:48
Speaker 1: It's very different from me raping you. And let me
34:53
Speaker 1: be clear, a digital rape, fingers, a rate with a
34:58
Speaker 1: six toy, rape with a penis, vaginal, anal, that's all rape.
35:06
Speaker 3: That is all rape. So I don't care how it's packaged.
35:12
Speaker 3: That is rape. If it is against.
35:15
Speaker 1: Your desire, it is rape and a story.
35:20
Speaker 3: So his rationale was, Hey, you're just gonna get used.
35:23
Speaker 1: By guy younger than me, and he won't do anything
35:26
Speaker 1: for you. Say, you might as well let me rape
35:28
Speaker 1: you and I'll help you get a modeling gig.
35:31
Speaker 2: Seriously, you know, Nancy, you know I interviewed many Larry
35:35
Speaker 2: Nassar victims and they were all young girls, and he
35:39
Speaker 2: also digitally raped them too. He wasn't penetrating them. He
35:43
Speaker 2: was doing everything with his hands, and he was raping
35:46
Speaker 2: all those young girls to hundreds of them. So people
35:49
Speaker 2: need to understand that a lot of these serial predators,
35:52
Speaker 2: they do things with their hands and tools. They don't
35:55
Speaker 2: always penetrate, and it is rape. He is violating your body.
36:01
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure people know that do
36:03
Speaker 1: your boys know anything about what you're going through? Do
36:08
Speaker 1: they know that you're speaking out against a very bad
36:12
Speaker 1: person and really against the US attorney who is not
36:18
Speaker 1: doing anything.
36:19
Speaker 2: Of course they know. They know everything. I have told
36:22
Speaker 2: my boys everything. I'm very transparent because they can see
36:26
Speaker 2: me suffering through it. They can see the pain. You know.
36:30
Speaker 2: They love me, so you know, and I don't have
36:32
Speaker 2: a lot of family that supports me and calls me
36:34
Speaker 2: and checks on me, sees how I'm doing and says
36:37
Speaker 2: I'm proud of you. I just I've never had that,
36:39
Speaker 2: which is why I was an easy target for Jeffrey
36:41
Speaker 2: Epstein because he could feel by the questions he asked
36:45
Speaker 2: me that night, if I was protected? Did I have
36:48
Speaker 2: a father in the picture who was calling me all
36:51
Speaker 2: the time, that was supporting me. He went after victims.
36:54
Speaker 2: He knew who to choose, the ones who didn't really
36:59
Speaker 2: have a strong wrong family or especially a father figure
37:03
Speaker 2: in their life. And I had a wonderful father. Don't
37:06
Speaker 2: see that, Lisa, Well yeah, yeah, he asked me. Oh yeah,
37:10
Speaker 2: that's why I said he was master manipulator.
37:12
Speaker 3: He literally asked.
37:14
Speaker 2: Me, what's your family like, Like, what's your family life like?
37:19
Speaker 2: How did you grow up? You know, how often do
37:21
Speaker 2: you talk your dad? How often does he call you?
37:24
Speaker 2: He asked me all these questions about my father, and
37:26
Speaker 2: I remember thinking he hit me emotionally because I have
37:30
Speaker 2: a wonderful father, you know, took me all around the world,
37:32
Speaker 2: and you know it was coach soccer and things like that.
37:35
Speaker 2: It had a great father, But there was no emotional accountability.
37:38
Speaker 2: There was nothing saying, hey, I'm proud of you, you
37:41
Speaker 2: know I love you. I didn't get that type of
37:43
Speaker 2: emotional attention that I desperately needed. And when Jeffrey fed
37:48
Speaker 2: that to me that night, within a few hours, it
37:51
Speaker 2: was like I was bonded to him because he gave
37:53
Speaker 2: me everything, like a fatherly mentor that I was craving
37:57
Speaker 2: for most of my life. Then he knew what to do.
38:02
Speaker 2: And that's how they manipulate you. They know where to
38:04
Speaker 2: get you. That's what it was confusing later on, when
38:07
Speaker 2: who did that to me?
38:15
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, Lisa, listening to you,
38:24
Speaker 1: I don't know how anyone can disbelieve.
38:29
Speaker 3: That Jeffrey Epstein is the devil, and that.
38:32
Speaker 1: There are other clients that have not been held accountable
38:38
Speaker 1: and didn't end when Jeffrey Epstein died. There are hundreds
38:43
Speaker 1: of other wealthy or powerful men that have committed rape
38:49
Speaker 1: and probably statutory rape.
38:52
Speaker 3: And nothing is being done.
38:54
Speaker 1: I don't understand how prosecutors, the US Attorney and more
39:00
Speaker 1: can live with that after they hear.
39:03
Speaker 3: What you're saying.
39:05
Speaker 1: I mean to me that just poor salt in your wound,
39:10
Speaker 1: that no one is doing anything.
39:13
Speaker 2: And that's the reason why survivors are coming forward is
39:15
Speaker 2: not because we want to tell our story. I do
39:18
Speaker 2: not want to tell my story over and over. The
39:20
Speaker 2: reason why I come forward is because I believe the
39:24
Speaker 2: other survivors because it also happened to me. I came
39:27
Speaker 2: forward Virginia Jufray when she spoke out about a few
39:33
Speaker 2: powerful people, but one in particular. I saw him on
39:36
Speaker 2: the island that day. You know I'm talking about Nancy.
39:39
Speaker 1: I want to know, are you talking about Prince Andrew.
39:43
Speaker 1: He already had a multimillion dollar settlement with Virginia's your
39:45
Speaker 1: Frey and now just when she's got the money, the house,
39:49
Speaker 1: the peace of mind, suddenly she commits suicide. Yeah not,
39:53
Speaker 1: but that said you witnessed Andrew there on the island.
39:57
Speaker 1: Is that true? Jeffery introduced me to a prince on
40:00
Speaker 1: the island. That's all I can say.
40:02
Speaker 2: When I told him I lived in Oxford, England as
40:04
Speaker 2: a child, I was like, I lived in Oxford, England
40:07
Speaker 2: as a child. So and he was on the island
40:10
Speaker 2: and he said, do you want to meet a prince?
40:11
Speaker 2: And I was like sure, and that was the man
40:14
Speaker 2: that I met.
40:16
Speaker 1: And then it was Prince Andrew.
40:23
Speaker 3: I just I don't care.
40:24
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you're talking about Andrew, but why
40:27
Speaker 1: are you afraid to say it was Andrew?
40:29
Speaker 3: I have a really hard time geting space in front
40:31
Speaker 3: of that.
40:31
Speaker 2: Most survivors, all of us survivors, are afraid to say
40:34
Speaker 2: any names for obvious, obvious reason.
40:37
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll say it for you. Prince Andrew was there
40:40
Speaker 1: that night.
40:41
Speaker 3: Can I get back to Epstein's. I know you don't
40:44
Speaker 3: want to say Andrew. I'll say it for you. And
40:47
Speaker 3: you know what, Andrew, if you don't like it, bring
40:49
Speaker 3: it on.
40:51
Speaker 1: Question with the secretary that barraged you with phone calls?
40:56
Speaker 1: What did she want you get away? You get away
40:58
Speaker 1: from him, you get back to New York. What happens then?
41:02
Speaker 1: What did the secretary say?
41:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, went back to New York. Thought everything was going
41:05
Speaker 2: to be fine. Wanted to get on with my life.
41:09
Speaker 2: I started going out a little bit more and trying
41:12
Speaker 2: to suppress this terrible memory. And then they would call.
41:16
Speaker 2: I mean, they would harass me every single week, several
41:20
Speaker 2: times a week, and they didn't give up. And I
41:25
Speaker 2: always wondered why. I mean, I know now why is
41:29
Speaker 2: because of who I saw on the island were very
41:31
Speaker 2: important people, even the underage girls that were there. He
41:34
Speaker 2: wanted me to be quiet, so he was desperate for
41:37
Speaker 2: me to further groom me and make sure I was
41:42
Speaker 2: in his little circle, so to speak. So it was
41:47
Speaker 2: four months. I know it was four months because Jeffrey
41:50
Speaker 2: called me and said, you know, it's been four months.
41:53
Speaker 2: Why haven't you come to see me. You know, we
41:55
Speaker 2: had a great conversation on the island and he said,
41:59
Speaker 2: you know what, really good friends with Katie Ford, and
42:02
Speaker 2: you told me on the island that your dream was
42:05
Speaker 2: to become a Ford model. He's like, I can help
42:07
Speaker 2: you out. I'm going to have you go over and
42:09
Speaker 2: meet with eighty Ford this week. And so I was thinking, Wow,
42:15
Speaker 2: he listened to me. He can't possibly be a bad guy. Now,
42:20
Speaker 2: maybe I was wrong about him. Maybe it was all
42:22
Speaker 2: my fault what happened on the island. Maybe I was
42:24
Speaker 2: flirting with him. I just started irrationalize in my head
42:27
Speaker 2: because he's so smart. I mean, he's such a genius.
42:31
Speaker 2: He listened to me on that island. He remembered exactly
42:35
Speaker 2: what I said my big dream was. I remember, I
42:38
Speaker 2: told you he helps people out because he can, because
42:41
Speaker 2: he has the kindest heart in the world, just because
42:43
Speaker 2: he can. And so he made that happen for me,
42:48
Speaker 2: And so I hung up the phone. Next next thing,
42:51
Speaker 2: the four Modeling agency was calling me to make an
42:53
Speaker 2: appointment for me to go in and meet with the
42:54
Speaker 2: owner of the agency. And I'm just like, what, this
42:58
Speaker 2: is so awesome. So, I mean, that's how he got me.
43:01
Speaker 2: I went in. I met with Katie Ford, and the
43:03
Speaker 2: first thing she said was I love Jeffrey. He's the best.
43:07
Speaker 2: He's such a great guy. And everyone talked so highly
43:11
Speaker 2: of Everyone spoke highly of Jeffrey Epstein during that time.
43:15
Speaker 2: So I was just like, oh, maybe's maybe something's wrong
43:18
Speaker 2: with me, Like, why was I the only one, and
43:21
Speaker 2: I started thinking I was the only one that he
43:23
Speaker 2: did that too, maybe because I wasn't blonde and he
43:26
Speaker 2: just wanted to. We had a kink, you know, because
43:29
Speaker 2: I'm like this multi racial brown girl here at the island,
43:32
Speaker 2: this vivacious girl. I don't know, I just I rationalized
43:35
Speaker 2: it in so many ways that I just thought, Wow,
43:38
Speaker 2: he's doing something for me. So I went and met
43:41
Speaker 2: with Katie Ford and started this relationship with four models
43:45
Speaker 2: where I took my career to the next level. So
43:49
Speaker 2: I was always thankful for that introduction from Jeffrey Epstein.
43:52
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to take in what you're saying, Lisa,
43:57
Speaker 1: because a lot of this I've never heard before, and
43:59
Speaker 1: I have been exhaustively investigating what I can. It's much
44:07
Speaker 1: bigger than any of us knew.
44:10
Speaker 2: Nancy, but I've been saying this for years, and nobody
44:12
Speaker 2: wants to listen because they just focus on the underage
44:15
Speaker 2: girls in Florida. And of course there were miners, but
44:19
Speaker 2: I would keep telling people eighteen to twenty four in
44:22
Speaker 2: New York, there were hundreds of them. Just the majority
44:25
Speaker 2: of them will never come forward because I told you
44:27
Speaker 2: they have good lives now and they've moved on, which
44:31
Speaker 2: that's great, But I said in my speech in front
44:35
Speaker 2: of Congress, I said that this goes darker and deeper,
44:39
Speaker 2: and this is about the mauling industry as well. I
44:42
Speaker 2: named a name, but nobody wants to focus on that.
44:46
Speaker 2: But if they did, some dame they would find, they
44:49
Speaker 2: would find a lot I do.
44:51
Speaker 1: That's the whole point of demanding these files being released
44:55
Speaker 1: is to find out who Epstein's clients were. You know
45:00
Speaker 1: of several women that were trafficked out to wealthy clients
45:06
Speaker 1: to go have sex with them.
45:08
Speaker 2: Yes, and they're in the emails, Nancy. Something you see
45:11
Speaker 2: if they look at the emails from Jeffrey epste and
45:17
Speaker 2: it would corroborate everything that I'm saying. And Jeffrey videoed
45:21
Speaker 2: everything in his house. I saw cameras everywhere. So I mean,
45:27
Speaker 2: the evidence is there.
45:29
Speaker 3: But they don't want us to have the evidence.
45:34
Speaker 1: Two things, how does it make you feel to know
45:38
Speaker 1: the evidence exists.
45:41
Speaker 3: And no one's doing anything about it.
45:43
Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't feel good, Nancy, doesn't feel good because
45:47
Speaker 2: we want answers too. There's a lot of confusion for
45:51
Speaker 2: us as well, not just for survivors. But I think
45:54
Speaker 2: the American people have a right to understand what's going
45:56
Speaker 2: on in our country.
45:57
Speaker 1: Another thing you said, and I've heard it over and
46:01
Speaker 1: over and over, and it has been felt by people,
46:08
Speaker 1: other women. You'd really be surprised at whom I'm talking
46:12
Speaker 1: about that feel as if it was their fault. Did
46:17
Speaker 1: I lead him on? Did I make this happen? What
46:22
Speaker 1: did I do wrong? And of course I know that
46:26
Speaker 1: you know, Lisa up here, that that's wrong, that's incorrect,
46:31
Speaker 1: that's bast awkwards. But there's something about sex attack victims
46:37
Speaker 1: always believing somehow it's their fault. What is your message tonight, Lisa?
46:45
Speaker 2: It is not your fault. It took me a long
46:49
Speaker 2: time to get there. And sometimes it's just seeing other survivors.
46:53
Speaker 2: Sometimes you just need to connect with other survivors, whether
46:56
Speaker 2: it's Epstein or any other serial predator, or anyone who
47:02
Speaker 2: can listen to you. You need support and you need
47:05
Speaker 2: to find the community. And you're not alone. You are
47:09
Speaker 2: not alone to.
47:11
Speaker 1: All the survivors out there. Right now we are speaking
47:17
Speaker 1: with Lisa Phillips who survived Epstein. I beg you, even now,
47:26
Speaker 1: even in face of our government not pursuing this, please
47:33
Speaker 1: stay strong and keep the faith. I believe that somehow,
47:38
Speaker 1: some way, this case will be investigated with or without
47:44
Speaker 1: Bondie Lisa, thank you for being with us, and thank
47:50
Speaker 1: you for being brave for other crime victims to see
47:55
Speaker 1: you and hear you and understand what you've been through,
47:58
Speaker 1: what you will always be going through because of Jeffrey
48:02
Speaker 1: Epstein and ga Laine Maxwell. But yet you are still
48:06
Speaker 1: fighting the fight.
48:09
Speaker 3: Thank you. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,