Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1215 - Help! My 8 Year Old is Totally Self Centred

Transcript

#1215 - Help! My 8 Year Old is Totally Self Centred · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: No April fools jokes here for the first of April.
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  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Happy Families Podcast Dr Real Parenting
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  Speaker 1: Solutions every day in Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We
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  Speaker 1: are Justin and Kylie Colson and Kylie. As much as
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  Speaker 1: I want to try to be funny, try to do
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  Speaker 1: things that are not serious. Today it's a very serious conversation.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sounding like I'm not serious, aren't I.
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  Speaker 2: I'm trying to work out where you're go having too
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  Speaker 2: much fun.
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  Speaker 1: Every Tuesday on the pod, we answer your questions. Are
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  Speaker 1: you your tricky questions about family and relationships and wellbeing
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  Speaker 1: and screens and discipline and all those challenges. If you
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  Speaker 1: have a sticky, tricky question that you'd like to submit,
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  Speaker 1: jump out of our website Happy families dot com dot you.
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  Speaker 1: There's a spot where we've got our podcasts where you
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  Speaker 1: literally click the button and start talking. Alternatively, you can
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  Speaker 1: send us a voice note to podcasts at Happy Families
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  Speaker 1: dot com dot you Today. Our question is as follows.
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  Speaker 1: It's a question from an anonymous source who says I'd
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  Speaker 1: love some insight and some suggestions on what to do.
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  Speaker 1: My eight year old boy is being difficult at home.
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  Speaker 1: He's very self centered. I know that kids are, but
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  Speaker 1: more so than our other three. He cries in tantrums
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  Speaker 1: if he doesn't get what he wants or what doesn't
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  Speaker 1: get to sit where he wants. He's never kind to
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  Speaker 1: his brothers. He never thinks of others. He says mean things.
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  Speaker 1: Then when you put him up nicely and say would
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  Speaker 1: you like it if that was said to you, to
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  Speaker 1: try to help him understand the situation and see it
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  Speaker 1: from the other side, he shrugs and says, I don't care.
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  Speaker 1: I've realized he hasn't been invited to any birthday parties
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  Speaker 1: from school this year, and he doesn't have any solid friends.
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  Speaker 1: He just plays with a few different kids depending on
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  Speaker 1: how he feels on the day, as he will only
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  Speaker 1: play games he wants to. I don't know how to
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  Speaker 1: get him to be considerate of others, how to care,
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  Speaker 1: how to empathize with others and just be genuinely nice.
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  Speaker 1: Any thoughts of advice on directions with him. We've tried
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  Speaker 1: to be gentle and explain situations that happen at home
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  Speaker 1: to help him understand, and they just seem to go
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  Speaker 1: over his head and he doesn't care, Kylie. These are
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  Speaker 1: the tough ones, right. You've got these kids that you
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  Speaker 1: love so much, and they seem oblivious, sempletely unwilling to
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  Speaker 1: engage with you, on anything that could help them to
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  Speaker 1: do better.
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  Speaker 2: You and I've had lots of conversations over the years,
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  Speaker 2: and as we've kind of, I guess, compared our children,
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  Speaker 2: all six of them, we've looked at each other sometimes
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  Speaker 2: and gone, how is it possible that this child is
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  Speaker 2: so different in the way they perceive things, in the
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  Speaker 2: way that they react to things, in the way that
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  Speaker 2: they view the world. It seems so foreign to me
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  Speaker 2: at times that they could be our child based on
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  Speaker 2: their experiences. And a little while ago I watched a
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  Speaker 2: small snippet of an interview and as psychologists was being
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  Speaker 2: asked about the fact, how is it possible that you
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  Speaker 2: were raised in the same house by the same parents
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  Speaker 2: and yet your experience has been so different from that
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  Speaker 2: of your siblings, And his acknowledgment was that we weren't.
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  Speaker 2: The way we interact with each person is different because
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  Speaker 2: we are all individuals. So in spite of the fact
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  Speaker 2: that you think that you're parenting each child exactly the same,
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  Speaker 2: you're not. And so with that idea, I think it
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  Speaker 2: just gives us insight into the fact that each of
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  Speaker 2: our children will be different and they are going to
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  Speaker 2: respond to the world differently. And that's okay. It's not
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  Speaker 2: a slight on us as parents. That is clearly with
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  Speaker 2: doing something wrong because this child is not like the others.
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  Speaker 2: But I think it helps us to understand them a
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  Speaker 2: bit better. They're supposed to be different.
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  Speaker 1: So we've jotted down a number of things that we
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  Speaker 1: do need to talk about. But thinking about this question,
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  Speaker 1: something has really stood out to me that we didn't
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  Speaker 1: write down, and I want to start with this, and
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  Speaker 1: that is that as I look at this anonymous mum's comments,
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  Speaker 1: what a sense is going on here is that there's
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  Speaker 1: a lot of talking and not a lot of listening.
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  Speaker 1: And I know that with an eight year old when
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  Speaker 1: you try to listen and they say I don't know that,
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  Speaker 1: that is a bit of a conversation stopper, right, You go, ah, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: we're not making any progress, so let me just tell
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  Speaker 1: you how it's going to be. But as I look
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  Speaker 1: at what's going on here, we've got things like I
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  Speaker 1: try to help him to understand the situation and see
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  Speaker 1: it from the other side, I say, would you like
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  Speaker 1: it if that was said to you? And he shrugs
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  Speaker 1: and says, I don't care. So there are two things
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  Speaker 1: here that really stand out to me. The first is
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  Speaker 1: that my sense is that Mum and Dad are probably
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  Speaker 1: trying to deal with tricky challenges in the moment, so
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  Speaker 1: their son is going to be heightened emotionally. They might
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  Speaker 1: even be a little less calm than they could be
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  Speaker 1: if everything was nice and level and balanced, And therefore
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  Speaker 1: the conversations can get a little bit fiery, a little
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  Speaker 1: bit emotional, and as we know, you can't think straight
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  Speaker 1: in a high emotion state. You do and say things
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  Speaker 1: that you wouldn't normally say if you're balanced. High emotions
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  Speaker 1: equals low intelligence.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that phrase I don't care or I'm fine is
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  Speaker 2: usually a symptom of a bigger problem that I'm.
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  Speaker 1: Not willing to be vulnerable about.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not feeling much so around this, and that's exactly yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And I don't like using that word I don't feel
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  Speaker 1: safe because it can be really weaponized. I've seen it
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  Speaker 1: used in awful ways. So I'm not talking about it
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  Speaker 1: like that, but rather just from an emotional point of view.
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  Speaker 1: I don't feel like i can disclose where I'm really
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  Speaker 1: at right now because I'm feeling like this might backfire.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I can trust you with my
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  Speaker 1: big emotions just now. That's what I'm talking about. There's
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  Speaker 1: some other things here as well, in terms of Mum
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  Speaker 1: just saying we try to we try to be gentle
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  Speaker 1: and explained. So there's lots and lots of explaining. But
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  Speaker 1: you remember from the three is of effective discipline that
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  Speaker 1: we don't start with explaining. We start with exploring, and
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  Speaker 1: we don't do it in the moment. We do it
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  Speaker 1: tonight or tomorrow or on the weekend, ideally with a
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  Speaker 1: glass of milk and some chop chip cookies or a
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  Speaker 1: chocolate milkshake or something that makes your child feel like
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  Speaker 1: it's okay, we're just going to have a chat and
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  Speaker 1: we're going to We need to look at discipline in
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  Speaker 1: a problem solving lens. A lot of people think at
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  Speaker 1: discipline as I need to do this to my child
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  Speaker 1: to teach them a lesson, or I need to step
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  Speaker 1: in with sanctions and restrictions and punishments so that they
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  Speaker 1: will learn. What they really learn is all the stuff
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  Speaker 1: that we don't want to learn. There are some very
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  Speaker 1: clear things that they will learn, though, if we work
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  Speaker 1: on problem solving together. So even asking a question like
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  Speaker 1: would you like it if that was said to you, Frankly,
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  Speaker 1: it's a manipulative question. It's a question that there's only
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  Speaker 1: there's only one true answer here. And he's feeling boxed in,
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  Speaker 1: he's feeling controlled, he feels like everyone's against him.
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  Speaker 2: He's not feeling understood right right.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Does that mean that we have to sit down
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  Speaker 1: and say, well, why don't you tell me everything?
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  Speaker 2: Well?
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  Speaker 1: Maybe, maybe not. The challenge here is that I sense
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  Speaker 1: that discipline such a tricky thing, and in this context
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  Speaker 1: with this particular child, it's even trickier. So I wanted
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  Speaker 1: to flag those at the outset. After the break, we
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  Speaker 1: have three or four other ideas that we can run
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  Speaker 1: through reasonably quickly that I think are going to really
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  Speaker 1: help in your conversation with your son. Okay, Kylie, let's
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  Speaker 1: talk about it. Eight year old being difficult, doesn't seem
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  Speaker 1: to want to learn. We've got a couple of different
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  Speaker 1: ideas that we can talk about here. My first one
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  Speaker 1: is really short and really simple. Developmental trajectories differ, so
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  Speaker 1: we've got personalities, we've got temperaments. Kids need to learn,
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  Speaker 1: they need to be socialized, but we shouldn't expect every
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  Speaker 1: eight year old to be at the same level. Just
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  Speaker 1: a quick reminder that every child is on their own
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  Speaker 1: developmental journey.
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  Speaker 2: In our home, we've always tried to be proactive in
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  Speaker 2: our approaches with our children, and one of the things
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  Speaker 2: that we love doing is focusing on the positive. And
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  Speaker 2: something that is really powerful for us in our home
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  Speaker 2: is having conversations around the dinner table. When people have
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  Speaker 2: got full tummies, they're usually much happier. They're much more
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  Speaker 2: open and receptive to hear messages and to receive instruction.
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  Speaker 2: But we can do it such a way that they
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  Speaker 2: don't actually feel like they're being instructed at all. So
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  Speaker 2: we like to have whether it's a gratitude circle, what
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  Speaker 2: were you grateful for today? Is something that we do regularly,
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  Speaker 2: but if we're working on a particular challenging behavior in
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  Speaker 2: our home, we might change it. How are you helpful
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  Speaker 2: today or how have you seen others being helpful and
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  Speaker 2: how did that make you feel?
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  Speaker 1: How have you experienced kindness? How have you been kind
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  Speaker 1: how have you been determined? How have you seen determination.
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  Speaker 1: So we just look at what the kids are struggling
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  Speaker 1: when we say, well, let's let's ask questions about that
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  Speaker 1: this week.
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  Speaker 2: And we've noticed that in the beginning, when we start
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  Speaker 2: with something new like that, often we get some pushback.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm not wanting to talk.
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  Speaker 1: To you about that, and we don't force it, but
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  Speaker 1: we do encourage it.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right. And so those who want to
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  Speaker 2: be involved, they have the conversation, and those other children
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  Speaker 2: who are not willing to win that moment, they see
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  Speaker 2: it and they get to take it in. But over
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  Speaker 2: the coming days, as we continue to reinforce it, what
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  Speaker 2: we find more times than not is by the end
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  Speaker 2: of week, we've got some buy in. You've got some
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  Speaker 2: realization that this is actually a good thing, and this
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  Speaker 2: makes me feel good.
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  Speaker 1: Right yeah, yeah, So let me add So that was
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  Speaker 1: your idea, and I want to add on to it
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  Speaker 1: with this idea of teaching values explicitly. Sometimes there is
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  Speaker 1: a place where we do want to explain. And if
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  Speaker 1: I was sitting down with a little boy and he
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  Speaker 1: was making other people feel uncomfortable or he was struggling,
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  Speaker 1: I'd be saying things like if we are going to
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  Speaker 1: be like, turn into grown up men and be healthy
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  Speaker 1: and strong men. We need to remember this. The good men,
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  Speaker 1: real men help the people around them feel safer and stronger.
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  Speaker 1: So there's this really explicit teaching that's going on. And
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  Speaker 1: we take the time to do the explicit teaching. As
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  Speaker 1: our daughters have moved into adolescence, we've had conversations with
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  Speaker 1: them that because real men make you feel safer and stronger.
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  Speaker 1: If you're dating a boy and he does not make
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  Speaker 1: you feel safer and stronger, then this is a relationship
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  Speaker 1: you want to get out of. If you want to
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  Speaker 1: explain to him that you're not feeling safer and stronger,
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  Speaker 1: give him the opportunity to change. If he doesn't seem
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  Speaker 1: to know how to do it, get other relationship. He's
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  Speaker 1: not good enough to be a boyfriend anymore. That explicit
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  Speaker 1: teaching moves the needle. And I was thrilled last year
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  Speaker 1: and one of our daughters broke up with her boyfriend.
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  Speaker 1: And when I asked why, she said because I didn't
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  Speaker 1: feel safer and stronger around him. I was like, oh, yes,
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  Speaker 1: it's working. It takes a while to sink in, but
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  Speaker 1: it does work. Last thing, avoid punishments, avoid being punitive,
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  Speaker 1: avoid sanctions where possible. But remember you're dealing with an
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  Speaker 1: eight year old, and sometimes you just have to step
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  Speaker 1: in and say, hey, buddy, don't want to get you
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  Speaker 1: in trouble, but we're going to do this for the
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  Speaker 1: next few days. You're going to lose the xbox or
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  Speaker 1: it's going to be X Y or Z until we
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  Speaker 1: get to have a proper conversation about it. We're not
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  Speaker 1: mad at you, You're not technically in trouble. We just
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  Speaker 1: want the family to feel different and we need your
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  Speaker 1: buy in. So the three e's that I teach explore
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  Speaker 1: explaining power, there is a fourth step and people often
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  Speaker 1: miss it. I've written about in the books, I've written
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  Speaker 1: about in the blogs, so I teach it when I
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: do my presentations, but people often miss it because it
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  Speaker 1: doesn't start with E. And I really emphasize the three e's.
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  Speaker 1: But that fourth step, after you explore, explain and empower,
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  Speaker 1: is if you have ongoing challenges, that you minimize the
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  Speaker 1: use of punitive and coercive strategies. But minimize is not
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  Speaker 1: the same as eliminate. Sometimes you've just got to step
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  Speaker 1: in and go all power hungry and it's not because
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  Speaker 1: you want to, it's because your kids aren't getting it,
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  Speaker 1: and we've got to do a full reset. Anger is
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  Speaker 1: an emotion that I'm not a big fan of, but
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  Speaker 1: it can be really useful to help other people recognize
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  Speaker 1: that a reset in a relationship is required.
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  Speaker 2: When I think about eight year olds and I think
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  Speaker 2: about where they are developmentally, my experience is that their
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  Speaker 2: emotional regulation and their capacity to recognize and understand the
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  Speaker 2: emotions that they're experiencing, we would call that emotional intelligence
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  Speaker 2: is still very immature.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they don't get half decent at it
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  Speaker 1: until somewhere between eight and ten.
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  Speaker 2: And so so as a parent, it's so easier for
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  Speaker 2: us to jump in because we're seeing what we would
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  Speaker 2: deem as bad behavior and negative output. And yet what
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  Speaker 2: this child probably needs more than anything is understanding and
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  Speaker 2: for us to explore his world and what's going on
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  Speaker 2: for him. And when he feels understood, chances are that
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  Speaker 2: relationships change, relationships strength, and connections are made, and his
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  Speaker 2: ability to recognize and see the impact that his behavior
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  Speaker 2: is having on others will enlarge. But whilever he feels threatened,
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  Speaker 2: whilever he feels like he's the one who's always in
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  Speaker 2: trouble whilever he feels like the world's against him. He's
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  Speaker 2: very closed off to learning and growing.
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  Speaker 1: The only other thing that strikes me is I listened
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  Speaker 1: to what you're saying. Is I mean, everybody talks about
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: neurodivergent challenges and I'm remiss to go straight there. I
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: really do think that most kids mature through this, They learn,
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  Speaker 1: and with really great teaching, we can help them. But
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  Speaker 1: it is worth considering whether there's need for an assessment,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: having a chat with the doctor and seeing if that progresses.
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  Speaker 1: My preference, My preference is always to see if we
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: can navigate this stuff with really really effective parenting and
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: really great relationships. But we can't discount that and potentially
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: other medical issues. Just worth throwing it out there. So
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  Speaker 1: to our anonymous poster, thank you so much for the question.
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  Speaker 1: We hope that it's helpful. If you have a question,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: all you need to do is go to the Happy
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Families dot com dot a u website and leave us
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: a voice message on the podcast section. Just click the
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: button start talking. It's that simple. The Happy Families podcast
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. If you'd
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: like more information and more resources, please visit us at
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: happyfamilies dot com dot au