Latest / Under the Docs / WWE's Dark Secrets: The Mr. McMahon Doc Exposed | Under the Docs Review

Transcript

WWE's Dark Secrets: The Mr. McMahon Doc Exposed | Under the Docs Review · Under the Docs

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Just to give you the highlights. There's a threesome that
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: involves defecation and restraint. There's forceful use of sex toys
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: named after male wrestlers. I assume he's like, let's see
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: how you handle the Ultimate Warrior. You know, like there's
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: like weird crazy stuff in here.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Under the Dogs, yeap, Under the Dogs looks could the
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: shots the dogs? Under the docks, under the Dukes, yep,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: under the Docks, Under the Dogs.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Oh hooy, madies.
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: This is under the Docks with Paranoid American and Uncle
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: Sean charting through treacherous ways the documentaries to let you know,
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: do they sink or swim? Have a doc you want reviewed,
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: contact us at Paranoid American dot com, kill Themockingbirds dot
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: com or Under the Docks dot com. Don't forget to
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: like subscribe and share, share the show.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was weird, but it was a
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: different time.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: Mister McMahon twenty twenty four documentary on Netflix if you're
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: looking it out, this one, you know, after we coming
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: from the Hulk Hogan, I thought it would be good
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: to like go into the mister McMahon stuff, which came
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: out before The Hulk Hogan one, and this one doesn't
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: let show you more of where the bodies are laid.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: What Hogan said in the last one, he goes, I
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: know where all the bodies are, right, I.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Think he says it in this documentary.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: And they don't shay everything that maybe would think, but
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: there's a lot packed in.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: And I will say Vince McMahon is.
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: One of the most charismatic characters I think we've ever
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: like seen in this lifetime.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: He's a CEO that was also a professional wrestler, and
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I think that he's the one guy. It almost goes
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Holk Cogan, Vince McMahon, Donald Trump like tho. That's if
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: they were a spectrum, Vince McMahon would have one foot
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: perfectly in each side of like the k fabe versus
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the business world or even the political world. Right, So
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: like Hulk Cogan obvious Vince McMahon. I don't know, man,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: it's hard to tell.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Plotting the course, This one's really easy to plot, right.
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: They're following the life of Vince McMahon and kind of
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: trying to shake down more trees. And I think this
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: was not This was a little bit more like a
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: hit piece, Like I could see someone seeing it like that.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: I don't necessarily see it that way, but as someone
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: described it as that, I could go get what you're
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: saying right in some aspects of it.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: But they follow from his upbringing.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: And that he was from a you know, a divorce
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: family and his stepfather beat him, and you know, he
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: had a rough life and somehow now I don't know
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: if they don't say this into the documentary, but his
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: dad was a promoter and he liked wrestling. I don't
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: know if he knew his dad was for sure a promoter,
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: because they don't allude to it, like he kind of
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: makes it seem like he didn't realize his dad was
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: a promoter until later in life. So I don't know
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: if he just liked wrestling, because they kind of go
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: back to where he was, like I was watching this
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: and I like that, or was it just like a nostalgia.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Moment or whatever.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: But I don't know if he got into it because
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: he kind of knew his dad was involved and then
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: he got heavy into it, but they kind of allude
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: to that as he gets older, he runs into his
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: dad and then you know, this is right in the beginning,
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: kind of shows you who Vince and why he is
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: who he is.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Is Vince McMahon's like, oh me, my dad for the
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: first time.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I'm gonna give him a big hug,
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: and then I just get a little pat on the back.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Hey, what's up, boy?
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: Like you know what I mean.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: And that's kind of like his introduction to his father.
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: So going through briefly of his childhood and how he lived,
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: he kind of goes back and forth throughout the documentary
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: where they'll bring up something that had happened when he
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: was a kid, but the basis of it that his
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: mother remarried and his stepfather beat the crap out of
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: him all the time, and he was just.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah, you just kind of like lay there and
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: if you don't die.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: You in when they also mentioned later on in one
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: of these episodes that even the mom was abusive to
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Vince McMahon, so he kind of he kind of gets
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: the shit and the bolt sticks when the divorce happens
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: it and says that he doesn't even meet his biological
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: father until he's twelve, and they never really talk about Hey,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: by the way, Dad, like, where were you for those
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: last twelve years? How come you weren't around it just
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: never came up the same way that he doesn't get
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: a hug from his dad, it's just like a pat
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: on the back. So it's it's sort of like the
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: strong but silent. But then also his dad ends up
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: being this huge wrestling promoter, which I guess goes in
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: line because Vince McMahon mentions later on that when he's
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: growing up and he doesn't really have a strong father
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: figure and he's already being abused at home, he realizes
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: and he's kind of a weirdo too. He keeps talking
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: about having like computers running in his brain and different
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: voices telling him to do different things, and that he
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: can disassociate and have different personalities, think about different solutions
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: to stuff, and get into their own arguments, and he
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: kind of says again towards the end, he's like, I
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: knew I was a weird kid, you know, So like
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: he knows he's kind of weird. And then he realizes
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: that if he gets into physical fights with people and
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: he's beating them up again, this is like before he
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: gets too much older, that this is the one way
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: that he was able to impress people and make an impression.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: So I think that's part of it is that he's
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: grown up without his dad and he realizes fighting and
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: getting into physical altercations and winning is earning him respect
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: because he's such a weird person to be around when
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: he's not fighting.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: And I think the question that's being asked throughout this documentary,
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: like you know, they're not necessarily speaking this question, but like,
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: there is who is Vince McMahon?
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Where does the character begin an end?
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: Is this a character or does some of it shine
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: into My favorite part of this whole documentary is when
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: they're like that, a's Vince mick Man. They're like, you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: is the character, mister McMahon is that you know? Is
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: there any of that in you? Absolutely? Not nothing at all,
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: And then they ask the wrestlers and the people around
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: him are like, absolutely, that's that's spinning, spinning image of it.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: That's closest you can get. Like everybody's pretty much saying
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: that's And even one of the writers, one of his
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: big writers, Bruce, is like, he's gonna tell you it's not.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: But because I've received, you know, like some of that
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: yelling that you see on TV, I've gotten that off camera,
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: Like you know what I mean.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Let's see any point Vince could just be like, oh yeah,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: but even when I was yelling at that, I was
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: just k faving him. He doesn't know that, but I knew.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: That, And I think they kind of like lean into that.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: I think he is I thought I didn't think of
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: this until you said it, But I think he is
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: that perfect like from Hoke Cogan to Trump right, merge together,
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: and he is lost in this delusion of just wrestling.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: That's all he knows. So I think it's like tooking
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: over his personality. I'm not saying that he was always like.
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: It almost reminds me of like Breaking Bad, where Walter
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: White right, like he's first he's doing a noble thing
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: like by like I'm gonna sell math. I'm gonna make
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: the best myth and sell it because I'm dying of
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: cancer and I'm gonna make sure my family lives without me.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: But then over the development of the character, he kind
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: of loses himself and he's like, you know, when I'm
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: a badass, like I'm gonna start killing people.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: And I think that's.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: What happened to the one who knocks.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: I'm the one who knocks.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: I think Vince McMahon did the same thing. He started out,
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: and they talk about when he met his dad, he
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: was a ring announcer, a referee, like he he pretty
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: much did any job within that promotion. And at one
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: day he's like, he want the company's supposed to go
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: to Grilla Monsoon, who was a big wrestler at the time.
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: And you'll see a lot of these promotions are run
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: by former wrestlers. Obviously they know the business, they know
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: how it goes. So he was the heir apparent right
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: that was gonna get the company. And then Vince comes
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: out of nowhere and he's like tells his dad like,
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: I want to buy the company. And he who was
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: a genius tactic to me. So the investors and his
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: dad go, yeah, we'll do it. Because he goes, look,
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: these are how many payments. He breaks down the payments
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: and this is gonna how I'm gonna pay you.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: But if I.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: Miss one payment, you get to take keep all the
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: money and you take the company back and boom it's gone.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: So they're like, oh, we could double sell I. They're
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: like this dumb young.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Body was gonna default on a payment. Like everyone was
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: convinced that he didn't know what the hell he was doing.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: And they were convinced of that, and they were like
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: they saw a big money opportunity, right, They're like, oh,
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: this dumb kid.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was his own dad. That's like this
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: dumb kid, right. And Vince had like cashed in like
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: all his four oh one k's and all his savings
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and like double mortgage the house. Like he literally put
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: everything that he had on the line to like get
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: this company and then eventually do WrestleMania, which is what
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: he was originally trying to do. Was like this WrestleMania thing.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: But no one would listen to him. No, they were
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: all like, listen, kud, this is how this thing's been done.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: That's how it's always been done. You know, you're not
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: going to change this regional way. It was kind of
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: they describe it like a mafia almost, that like you
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: own this this coast and someone's gonna own the West
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: coast and and you know, you just don't move in
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: on each other's territories. And he realized the only way
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: that he could get through that was to just buy
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: this company and like force his way into it.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: And that to me, that then mafia is a good analogy.
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: The way.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: I thought.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: It was just like gangs and drugs, where like, hey,
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: these five blocks are mine, those other five blocks are yours.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: Same thing like with the mafia, where like we control
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: this area, we don't do anything in our area unless
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: you come talk to us first. And that's how it was.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: Like they may do cross promotions or like, hey, do
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: you think we could use this character on this show?
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: Sure you could use it, you know what I mean.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: They're they're finding ways where they could both profit off it.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: And he was like, I'm blowing it all up, man.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: I'm taking the best characters, the best wrestlers from each region,
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: and I'm putting them on TV. He was already working
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: on television to where he can get their face out
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: there every day, finding different ways to develop these characters,
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: creating like his own late night show, creating like little
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: like getting into the cartoons and getting into all the
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: different ways to advertise and also get merchandise. But it'll
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: all banked on WrestleMania one. If WrestleMania one is not
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: a success, he's gone because then all his money's wiped out.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: He needed to be a financial success or he'd lose everything.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: It was like the ultimate gamble in order to actually
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: make this thing all come together. And I think you
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: were asking before about if he's the real Vince McMahon,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: or like if he was getting so high in his
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: own supply that he didn't even realize where the difference
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: was between these two characters. I kind of feel that
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: he was the badass, right, Like, I don't think there
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: was a version of Vince McMahon in McMahon's head that
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: was wrong. Like he actually did create this entire reality,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: an entire ecosystem, every economy, right, He created this entire bubble.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: So he gets to live in that bubble, and he
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: gets to be whatever character he wants in that bubble.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Because the second that he's like, you know what, I'm
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: just gonna go and and start sleeping with my secretary
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: and make her bark like a dog or whatever, like
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: that's gonna be me. Like, he literally turns that into
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: his life. And he's able to do that because he
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: gets to create this entire you know, like the reality
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: that people tune into. That's literally what he makes his
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: money doing. So he doesn't ever leave that reality. It's
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: not like he gets like Vince McMahon never gets to
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: change the channel or go back to work where wrestling's
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: not real, Like he lives in the world where wrestling
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: has to be real and.
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: He has it to where he thinks everything is real
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: and how it functions, so he's able to insert any.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: He's like, well that didn't really happen.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: That happened because I'm building on like he's able to
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: associate it with a wrestling storyline or put it into
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: context in his brain where it doesn't matter like right,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: because he's like you said, it's his own bubble to
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: where he goes no, no, no, I was even when
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: I'm wrong, I'll be right later because I can happens
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: to be like see, this is why that happened.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: This connects it.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: So he's waiting for that connection piece where he's like, yeah,
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: see that's why I did that, and it's just natural
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: to him. But in his defense, he built like a juggernaut, right,
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: like he did something that's innovative, like where people are like,
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: you can't do this, this is the way we do it,
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: don't change it, and he changed everything. He was saying,
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: like even joking around how when he took the regions
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: over and took their best talent that you know that
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: He's like, yeah, their favorite lines.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: They always wanted something was sleeping with fishes, and they
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: loved about fishes and stuff and sleeping.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: Like he's just talking shit, right.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: He was just like I don't know what they actually meant,
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: but I'm sure he got a lot of death threats,
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: like people are like, hey man, you're taking money out
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: of our pockets. But then it became so big there
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: was nothing they could do and it took over because
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: it's like Uber rightlyft was before Uber, but you say
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: uber right, like Uber is they just got into the
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: mainstream masses brain. And that's what WWWF did because none
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: of these other you weren't talking like a smoking mountain
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: regional like that would have to be a niche where
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: you're like a wrestling fan of that specifically, right, But WWF,
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: like wrestling was WWF and that's all you knew.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: You're like, that's what it is.
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: I didn't even know there was any other death Like
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: when I heard about WCW growing up. It was like
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: later on where I'm like, oh, yeah, there's this thing
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: sometimes on even I saw some of the other uh
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: now I know, but I know when I was six
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: and seven and eight years old watching some of these
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: other wrestling I just knew.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: It was different. I'm like, why is it like it
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: looked cheaper.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: To me though, like I will say, like the product,
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: I'm like, well that red carpet out there, or why
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: does it look like it's like this, And I'm like,
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: I just felt cheapen. But I'm like, oh, this is
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: the It's almost like it was the bootleg version. You're like, ah,
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: it's better than nothing, but it's not the thing I'm
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: looking for. So he changed the landscape and made it
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: and put wrestling on the map and brought it to mainstream.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: Instead of this like weird Nietzche that would be like
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: live shows and sidetracks side attractions of like giants and
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: huge men fighting each other. It was like the bearded lady,
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. Now he brought it mainstream.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: And there was another thing I didn't even realize, but
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: they were talking about how in early wrestling before Vince
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: McMahon took over and turned it into this national thing,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: that usually the regional wrestlers they had to be the
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: good guys by default, because like, that's the guy from
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the Smoky Mountain region. What is he going to be
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the bad guy? So it often turned into good guys
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: or always the Americans, and the bad guys were always
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: like these four So Vince McMahon, I mean, obviously they
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: used that for WrestleMania One, which works out perfectly, But
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: in his mind he's also realizing, like that's so limiting,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Like why can't we also have heels that are American
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and like develop this entire thing and make it so
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: that it's a national product and not this little regional thing. So,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, he seems like absolutely within the world of
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: wrestling and in figuring out what people want in entertainment,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: he was a genius. Like he legitimately saw a huge
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: picture that in retrospect you look at you're like, yeah,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: of course, why wouldn't you combine all the regions? Well,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: I guess nobody else really wanted to have threats by
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: the mafia that were like, hey, maybe we should combine
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: all these regions. Someone's like yeah, maybe someone should kill
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you when they were like, Okay, never mind, I won't
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: And it shows you to not only like is he
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: a genius and like can he develop stuff?
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: It's just the perfect timing and when things align, like
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: he had.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: This ambition, but he needed that other half of it,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: which is Huk Cogan, like without each other, Like I
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: feel like they're both fifty fifty. Like he needed the canvas, right,
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: maybe he molded like you could go back and forth.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: They argue who.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: He says his dad created the name hok Cogan.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: A lot of people give Vince credit for like telling Hogan,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: and even Hogan was saying like stuff that, you know,
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: giving credit to Vince of helping develop I think Hogan's
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: beef was more like, hey, can I get some credit?
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: Like you know what I mean, I get it that,
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: And I think he does deserve some credit because it's like,
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: you know, you can't just obviously you couldn't just put
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: anybody there. It's like these jobs that are like, oh,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: we'll replace him with anybody. You're like, yeah, you could
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: get a body in there. But look like you said
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: in a previous episode, where you could put the Warrior
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: in there, you could put Brett hard in there, not
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: everybody's going to be able to carry that company to
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: the next the next level, the next point that you
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: want to get to, and the perfect merger was Vince
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: and Hogan, where people bought into it. You were able
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: to sell it because you're like, look at this guy,
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: he's an American hero. You sold in wrote it off
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: with the time. So I think the timing with his
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: idea is just like, if he tries to do it
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: five years earlier, it probably doesn't work right. If he
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: tries to do it with a different wrestler, it probably
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: doesn't work. It just was the everything in line. He
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: got whole Cogan and boom, now he blows up.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Well, and he did try it later and it didn't
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: work again with the like the first WrestleMania with the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Iron Chic right in the middle of the Iran Contra issue,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: well not the Iran Contra Scannal, but basically America versus
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Iran is like these global tensions. So having America whoop
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Iran's ass at Madison Square Garden, it's very appealing to
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: all Americans, no matter what your political affiliation is. It's
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: always like yeah, hell yeah, America is gonna beat these Iranians.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: So there was that aspect. He was also smart enough though,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: where he gets some of the stars on MTV at
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the time. He's getting like Cyndi Lapper involved, like making
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: sure that it's this big cultural event we were mentioning,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: puts all of it online, takes out all these different
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: loans to make this thing happen, and this was the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: one chance to make get like a national spectacle that
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: people actually liked. And it works like the perfect storm.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Everything's at the right time. And later on they try
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: and redo this again when it's the desert storm, but
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: it was before it turns into an actual war where
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: people are dying and getting hurt. Right, they try and
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: like take Sergeant's slaughter and make him repeat this exact
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: same scenario. But then it was like, hey, man, like
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: you can't profit off of these people that are dying
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: out here. That's disgusting. And it shows how much the
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: landscape had shifted just within like five or six years
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: where he was doing the exact same thing and turning
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: it into like just printing money. And then he tries
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: to repeat it and the rest of the world's like, hey, god,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: come on, have some sensitivity here. So he kind of
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: like lived through these different moments and Vince mcbahn it's
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: sort of right, like he's living on the edge of
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that line constantly of like what the social like acceptable
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: things to do and what things will get you canceled.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: He's kind of always this like a suspect in the room.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: He's like a usual suspect. Whenever like a me too movement,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: for example, pops out, It's like whenever a scandal, I guarantee,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: like when even when Epstein probably popped out. I wonder
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: if like McMahon's got a code name somewhere in those papers,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you know, Ah.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't doubt it, Like you're all right, because he's
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: like in that whole world. I mean, that's how Donald
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: Trump is wrapped in all of this. And it's a
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: different time in the eighties of what everything was changing when.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: It came a different time.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: No, but I'm saying, like cable TV, you know you
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: have MTV, so like these things are able to thrive.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: But it still took genius ideas because I think the
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: idea what he did was he did what a lot
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: of smart people do.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: They say, Hey, this was very successful.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: He's like I saw the Super Bowl, I saw a
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: World Series, I'm seeing NBA finals, I'm seeing all these
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: like championships, these huge events that kind of cap everything off.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Let's make a WrestleMania, and then him having the vision
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: of adding mister T's and Cyndi Laupers and these iconic characters,
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: even Muhammad Ali that now.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: That he's like, this is what we do. This is
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: the big spectacle. This is a spectacle mixed with what
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: we do every day.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: Now we've been dragging the common person to maybe you know,
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: you get one hundred million views, maybe two thousand of
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: those people are now lifelong fans or more.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I love too. The impression I get from this McMahon
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: series is that and I don't mean this in a
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: bad way. I know it might sound in a bad way,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: but he's like a psychopath in a business way. Not
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: that he's going to go out and become like a
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: serial killer. But I never get the impression that he
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: ever has some ideology that he's got like a political
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: or religious influence, Like every single thing is is this
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: what's going to entertain people the most? Like he gets
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: off on making money and doing things that are entertaining.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: If it does both of those things, he's involved no
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: matter what else is on the line, and then getting
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: like morality be damned, social sort of regulations be damned,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: maybe even laws be damned like, and I think there's
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: something respectable about that, the same way that I don't
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: necessarily condemn wrestlers or any other sports stars if they
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: want to jack themselves up with steroids and show us
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: what peak physical form can do. That sort of Not
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: only did Vince McMahon also do steroids and get jacked,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: but I feel like he has no other limitation, like
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: if he's got the money for it and the willpower
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to do it, Like, thank god, this guy didn't want
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: to become like a hitler or something, right, he just
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: wanted to entertain people. But Vince McMahon with this amount
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: of focus on anything else, could have been like a
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: horrible thing for humanity, and instead it's I think it's
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: like a net If it's not a net neutral, it's
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: like a net gain for Americans. Even with all the
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: horrible things that come out that he does later, I
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: think like he improves American culture for the better in
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: so many different ways just because he's a good psychopath.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: And I think Tony Atli is a former wrestler that
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: was interviewed in this set at the best, he's Evince.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: You don't see he doesn't see why black he seems green.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: He says, he doesn't care.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: Man, He's like, you, if you're gonna make me money,
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: I'm putting you out there. And that's really what he is.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: And you kind of respect that to a level because
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: you're like, hey man, what are you supposed to do
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: in business? Are you not supposed to make as much
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: money as possible? And that's when now it starts like
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: it kind of paints the story of what he builds.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: You know this, like now you have merchandise. A lot
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: of these other wrestling places weren't like, you know, when
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: it's regional, you weren't having merchandise as much, like maybe
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: you had some shirts here and there. Now you're talking
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: about toys, wrestling toys, pillows, toothpaste, like everything you can
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: put a wrestler on now was on that product and
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: you were selling it.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: You were having cartoons, you were having people. You had.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: Now this avenue, he had the vision of going, I
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: see where things are going with cable TV. I see
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: where things are going with like how people are with
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: video games and everything that's now in this new bubble
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: that wasn't there, like when in nineteen eighty two and
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: to nineteen eighty four, like all these Nintendo systems, these
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: TV shows, like everything's getting bigger and expanding. Cable is
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: now a new thing. The Internet's not even really there yet, right,
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: Like you're not even for what all that's gonna be.
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: But he saw that if I do this and I
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: take everything they have and I put it in front
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: of the mainstream.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna have success. And then he does have success.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: And then I think one of the first real issues,
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: like there's some little minor issues of.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Hoke Cogan hurting like uh a talk show Richard Belzer.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: There's also another incident I think where what's his name
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: from twenty twenty, well twenty twenty is doing like a.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Johnstos Yeah, John's fossel also gets hit. He gets slapped,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and he clearly and not only this was doctor d
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: David Schultz is the wrestler some I mean unknown now right, uh,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: but this was a WWF wrestler supposed to just be
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: having a nice little conversation at like Vince McMahon's like, yeah,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: you know, more more mainstream exposure, and he does the
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: ultimate you know, taboo, which is like, isn't this all fake?
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: You know? He like turns it into this thing thing.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: So the guy's look like the doctor d is like,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: oh you think it's fake huh. So he just straight
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: up smacks them, and John Stossel claims permanent ear damage
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: and ends upsuing like everybody involved the exact same thing,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: which like when Hulkgan Sleeper holds Richard Belzer and then
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: lets him go, Like honestly, if he just like gently
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: put him down on the ground, it would have been
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a completely different story. But he just drops his ass,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: hits his head. He starts bleeding, like as he's walking
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: away from the credits, blood is like spurting out the
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: back of his head. And Vince McMahon's watching this like
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: this is not what I was expecting, Like, you guys
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: were supposed to just go on TV sell some tickets,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Hey ma hey dad, this is you know, friendly for
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: the whole entire family, and then instead like people are
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: being physically assaulted and getting hurt on TV.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: Well, there was also nobody verified, but there's a couple
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: of the rumors, like the Tony Atlas is talking about
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: it coming and then that they saw Stossel was going
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: run and he was kind of poking holes at the
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: cave fab and it's it's a taboo. And then that
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: Vince had went in there and was like, somebody take
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: care of him, like he didn't.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: He he didn't. This was so smart too, So he
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: never would come out and be like hey you Booker
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: t or hey you Atlass, go and punch John Stossel.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: But he would just walk by kind of like stop
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: in the hallway and like out loud thing to himself. Man,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I really wish someone would do something about this stoscile guy,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: and then like walk keep walking right, didn't like address anyone,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: like the way that he knew how to just make
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: his his wants heard. He knew that it would like
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: form result and again, bro, it's it's like this is
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: such an interesting dynamic of reality and the law and everything,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Like did he commit a crime knowing that the people
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: hearing him say something to himself out loud out might
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: actually do the thing? I don't know, man, This is
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: like how Mafi would operate. Like even if you get
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: him on tape, it's like, oh, we didn't really necessarily
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: get a hit order someone was just like hey someone,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: you know, I wish someone would serve this as an asshole,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: a Burt Meatball or something, and It's like if someone
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: then shoots that guy because they knew what the message was,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: like the dog whistle, I guess. But this just shows
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the level of sophistication which in my mind only could
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: have come from the wrestling industry itself. Vince McMahon did
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: not invent this way of running a business. This is
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: basically how like a mafia criminal, a criminal enterprise would
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: have worked. So I feel like he just fit directly
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: into that puzzle perfectly. He was like, oh, I know
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: exactly my footing already.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he was just as ruthless as them, which and
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: I think they unreestimate, and which gave him the upper hand.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: And it was run just like a criminal organization all
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: the regions, right they and who knows? They don't go
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: into detail of other things that have happened like during
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: that time of like was their cocaine being sold?
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: Was there other like mafia's actually involved? Like doesn't talk
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: about that necessarily in here. The more things that get
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: to where it gets even worse, and like where now
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: not only the steroid era, right, the steroid era was
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: a big long fight, but the ring boy scandal right
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: where now you're you're introducing the epstein Ish of the
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: wrestling world where you're getting bad publicity that is really
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: hurting people. And like now the steroid thing kind of
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: bounced back because the doctor that was selling it to
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: the wrestlers, they're like, as you alluded to it in
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: a previous episode, like you're like, they weren't told to
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: take steroids. It was just known like when you're starting
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: out in wrestling, before you're in the WWF, before you're
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: in the big times, you're in the small, little backyard
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: regional things, little small very programs where that's where they're
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: like some guy that wrestles with you is like, hey,
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: if you want to make to the next level, you
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: probably should use this. And that's kind of like where
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: this doctor comes into play, uh, doctor George zennern And
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: he was the one mainly selling to all of these wrestlers.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: And then Vince McMahon's name kind of got drug into
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: it because they're like, well, there he has to know, right.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: That's when people are like, well, how would you not know? Yeah,
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: he does know. Nobody's stupid, nobody.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Does likes yeah.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Unspoken rule, right, it's like, yeah, we know that you're
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: gonna use steroids and they probably have no problem with it.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: Like I'm one of the people that I don't care, bro,
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: especially for wrestling. What does it matter to me? Like
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: you're not getting an edge because if Vince says you're
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: not winning, you're not winning. Or if as a matter
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: of like when Hogan faced Andre the Giant, that he's like, yeah,
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: Andre wouldn't talk to me, man, and like I was
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: trying to figure out what's gonna happen.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking I'm gonna beat him. I don't know if
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: he's gonna.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: Let me, and he goes, don't worry about it, and
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: then he's like, dude, like Andre's gonna do whatever he wants.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Bro, He's a giant. Bro win I'm not winning.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: So like that's like the kind of like give you
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: context of how this stuff works.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: It's not going to happen.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I also, I had never heard of the Ring Boys scandal.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I thought that it really just kind of started and
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: ended with the steroids thing, which again they also make
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: a really good point in this one that the doctor
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: that everyone was like, oh, well, the doctor for the
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: WWF and he's given steroids, So clearly there's a connection
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: to Vince McMahon. But They're like the doctor was assigned
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: by the state, Like that was a doctor assigned by
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: the government to have like some kind of oversight into this.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know how much I believe all of that,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: but like the guy was filling the purpose that he
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: was there to fill, right, Like get these guys a legal,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: easy access to medical care in the steroids. So we
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: did that. So it was weird that that became the scandal.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, in my tinfoil hat brain, it makes sense
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: that they just fold all these other scandals up into
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: steroid use because steroid use is so ubiquitous and it's
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like a nothing burger at the end
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: of the day, right, like, oh so, wow, someone did steroids.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: That's insane. I can't believe that, you know, what a
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: horrible person. But then you don't hear about the ringboy scandal,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: which has top executives a WWF. They mentioned a couple
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: names that I'd never heard before, Terry Garvin and then
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: also a guy, Pat Patterson, who is one of McMahon's
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: top executives. But then they also go on to have
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: some people defending I think Pat Patterson and Terry Garvin
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: along with actual like on camera like, yeah, that guy
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: assaulted me like one of the previous ring boys. So
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: you don't really get necessarily like a forensic detective case
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: as to and here's what the facts really say, right,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: it's just like a a he said, she said as
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: they present it. But there's the ringboy scandal. There's all
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: sorts of abuse where they say, like if you were
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: a woman inside wrestling during these first three decades of
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: it being really popular tea basically seventies to nineties, that
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: it was just known that you were going to be
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: sexually abused. And they even are interviewing Jimmy Snooker. They're
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: not Jimmy Snooker. They're interviewing Atlas, I think, and and
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: they're basically like yeah, man, like you know what, I
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: don't want to tell any stories. But everyone was doing
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: all that, and you get a very candid concept that
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: all of the worst things leveraged against McMahon in particular
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: applied to every single wrestler except for In this documentary,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: they mentioned Kevin Hart, that Kevin Hart was like a
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: legitimate family man, but that Vince McMahon was like writing
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: her own heart, and that Vince McMahon was writing this
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: storyline about like he's got a side piece and like
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: doing all this stuff that was the exact opposite of
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: who he was as a person. But you get the
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: idea that aside from own heart, everyone else was legitimately
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: ring boys abusing women. And they also have this chick
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Rita Marie the referee that she claims that Vince assaulted
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: her specifically, and that just gets added to this running
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: tally of like lawsuits that are kind of stacking up
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: against him. And then eventually when the steroid lawsuit hits,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: this is where the government turns into this big spectacle
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and now it's like Vince McMahon is on trial for
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: all of these different things that have been alleged against him.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: But really, I think that the steroid stuff took over
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: the ring boy stuff. I hadn't ever even heard of
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: the ring boy stuff, and now, I mean that also
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: sounds legit. Like what if you're working for McMahon and
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: you're like, hey man, you know all these wrestlers get
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: to just abuse these women all the time, Like I'm
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: not into that, Like how come I don't get something
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: like I wouldn't need to taste of my flavor? Right,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, what's your thing. It's like, okay, yeah,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and coordinate that for you. That felt
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: like the kind of thing that Vince McMahon would do
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: for you if you were one of his execs.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: And the way they try to spin it is that
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: like mainly they're like the main corporal was mel Phillips,
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: who was the ring announcer, and that Pat Patterson was
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: more framed like because he was openly gay, and there's
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: saying that like the wrestling road wasn't ready for that,
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: and like they kind of use that as like but
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: then there's other people.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Actually he was very progressive.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Regret he wasn't doing anything.
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: But I thought it was interesting, like because I didn't
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: know any of this at the time.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: First of all, I'm young, right, I.
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: Knew I did hear a lot about the steroids stuff
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: that seemed to be everywhere. But I mean, it looks
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: like they were talking about the ring boy things, right.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: They had him on a couple of talk shows where
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: the guy that's accusing him and with Vince right there
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: and they're kind of going back and forth. I was
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: interesting to be too, where I'm like, oh wow, like
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: they're like debating and he's saying like, oh, this never happened,
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: this is bull crap, and and then like.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: It had, Dude, in my mind, one hundred percent that happened.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: There's no way that that didn't happen. There was definitely
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: ring boys.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Definitely, and especially when there was multiple people in.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: It started with an article of someone coming out with like, hey,
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: the FBI's investigating it, they're finding a lot of details.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: I just did don't think they had anything that they
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: concrete evidence because their fraternity over there, right like Russell
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: are like, hey, no, we're backing it, like we're we're
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: protecting the business. That's how they look at it, as
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: like it's not even that they're protecting the person. They're like,
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: we have to protect the business and it's what's feeding
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: you at the time. So most of these people are like, yeah,
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna look the other way, right, Like, I'm sure
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of people that are like, that's not
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: my thing.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: And even some of these like multi year, multimillion dollar contracts,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: we're still being done with a handshake too. So I mean,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: if you're a ring boy, it's not like you've got
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: paperwork to back up any of the claims like literally
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: everything's happening over a handshake.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: And this is where I want to take it and
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: get a little conspiratory. You'd think the ring Boy scandal
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: would be I think that's just I'm with you.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: I one percent believe it's like at.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: The time, it's similar to what we heard about, like, uh,
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: the conspiracy of Silence, right, the Franklin scandal. Right, it's
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: not that it's the same thing, but it's it's involved
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: in all these industries at that time and forever probably
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: in the time of the world.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: Right, there's weird people that want to do weird things.
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: But I think to for me, I put my tinfoil
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: hat on right here, because we're gonna get into the
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: WWF vers, WCW ratings wars.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Right the Monday Night Wars were.
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: Vince and them started getting a lull where people were
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: getting bored of this like cartoonish character stuff. They're getting
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: bored of the superhero they want like this is only
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: for children, this is not for adults. Like adults are
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: getting like tuning out, Like the teenagers at the time
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: are like there's the more exciting things.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: Things are getting more edgy.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: They don't want to eat the vitamins. They don't want
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: to say their prayers.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: They want a hero that's doing cocaine and fucking hookers,
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: like they're they're looking towards that, and you're getting that
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: aspect in the WCW. When now Hoke Hogan's in the
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: nWo and they're running eighty three weeks in a row,
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: they're leading in the ratings. So I look this up
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: because I was like very interested in this at the time,
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: like vinc and them are trying other stuff, they also
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: start start developing new characters out of necessity because Vince
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: determination and his sheer will to win and to crush,
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: truly crush his competition. That's what he wants to do. Spoiler,
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: he does crush his competition, but at the time he's
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: developing characters out of a necessity. He's very stubborn to
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: what people say, like how they perceive him, and that
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: he's building.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: These characters that he's like, we're still gonna do this way.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: We're doing in the old way, but now that he
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: sees changing, he's willing to take on other ideas. That
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: is where you get a stone cold Steve Austin who
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: Boom his new Hulk Hogan not expected. Right, it's not
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: the same kind of cookie cutter American hero. Oh, he's
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: just a blue collar badass. That's like, I'm drinking beer,
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: I'm doing what i gotta do. And then the way
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: they say that kind of came together is by accident.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: He's not supposed to be at that forefront of the
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: King of the Ring. It's supposed to be a Triple H.
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: Who is the son in law now of Vince McMahon.
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: He's supposed to be winning it. He's supposed to get
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: the big push and go for the title. But he's
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: being punished because they broke the rule of wrestling of
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: the kfab of where you telling the audience that we're friends.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: And there's a moment when Scott Hall and Kevin Nash
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: are leaving the WWF. Now it was not a televised show,
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: but from what they say, they got a permission. So
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: with Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Razor Ramone and Diesel, these three,
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: these four characters that behind the scenes they're really good friends.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: They call themselves to click. They do their own thing.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: They're leaving and they're asked if so. They're giving hugs
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: in the ring and like a lot that didn't sit
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: well with everybody, right, the old school people are like whoa,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: Like what's.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Going on here? So I think that had a.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: That's the reason why he gets pushed out and he's
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: not gonna win it, so then it gets stone cold,
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: and now he gets this opportunity and he kind of
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: like goes this like crazy rout of where he's fighting
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: Jake the Steak Roberts, and he's like biblical and he's
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: just like, you know with all your John three six
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: it's Austin three to sixteen.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: I just whooped your ass.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: And he's like, oh, Vince is in my ear because
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: he's obviously a control freaking he's like kind of pissed, like,
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: hey man, we're in the not pissed necessarily, but he's like,
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: we're in the Bible belt, like you might want to
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: be careful of like what you're saying.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: And then he just comes up with a line.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: And that's the bottom line, which is that's when you're
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: creating these taglines, which is now when the future is
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: going to make the characters. So as they're still losing,
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: as they're building these new edgy characters, they're still losing
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: the ratings.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: Right, this is where my tinfoil hat stuff comes on.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: I went through the ratings.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: WCW was winning from nineteen ninety six to nineteen ninety eight,
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: and then there's a spin and there's a thing that
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: changes everything. Right, beginning of nineteen ninety nine, things change.
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: You know, ho Cogan is now like falling down, He's defeated.
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: Could there be this is all speculation, right, a timfoil
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: hat where we talk about the cold and sacrifices, that
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: a sacrifice may.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: Have been made with Owen Hart.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: Right that you have the Brett Harsk screwjob where Brett
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: Hart's leaving to WCW after he signs a twenty year
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: contract and thinks he's.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: Going to be with WWF forever losing money and he's
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: not doing so well.
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: Vince's like, maybe you want to take that contract with
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: ww they'll probably pay you more.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: I don't have any money to pay you.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: As he's going, he needs he has the title, and
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: he doesn't want to drop the title because he hates
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: the guy he's facing, Seaw Michaels. They have a real
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: life hate for each other. He's like, you know, I
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: don't like this guy. How he moves. You know, Brett
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: is like a traditionalist and he doesn't like all this stuff.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: So they end up taking the title off of Brett.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: It's a big controversy. But he goes to WCW. Now
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: owen Hart, who is known to be a prankster, who
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: is known to be this like good spirit family man
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: who they pitch an idea of him having an affair
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: on camera and he refused to do it. They now
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: created him into this character that he used to be
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: called the Blue Blazer when he moved into the arena,
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: but the gimmick behind it was more clowning it right,
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: Like he's they're they're making fun of the old era
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: where they're like, you know, this cartoonish guy, he's bumbling
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: and stumbling. He's telling you to eat your vitamins, but
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: he's falling over well.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: At this event over.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: The Edge in nineteen ninety nine, owen Hard is supposed
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: to dangle from the rafters and then their idea was
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: him to just be like coming from the rafters and
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: he's like, oh, I'm not, you know, fully gliding down right.
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: They're making fun of sting on the WW side of
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: where he's now he's gonna get stuck on it.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: It's supposed to be.
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: A gag, a joke, or I start seeing like the
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: occultic aspect of it is you got a supposed pure
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: soul that we don't know Owen hard if he was
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: really this, but he was known to be this family man,
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: this person that was all about his family and doing
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: the right things. And then he's facing the character he's facing.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: He's the do gooder, is the godfather. The Godfather is
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: a pimp who comes out to the ring with women,
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: and then he tells his opponents like, you could either
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: fight me or you could take the women, right, like
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: what do you want to do?
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: Like?
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: And sometimes people take the women, sometimes they fight him.
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: As Owen's going down seventy eight feet in the air,
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: something happens the mechanical issue, and he falls to the ring,
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: hits his head on the ring post, and pretty much
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: they don't they say he's not dead instantly, but I
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: think he was pretty much like maybe like the reaction
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: you're seeing at first is that he's still have like
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: his last breath or whatever. But he's pretty much announced
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: dead within five to ten minutes of him falling. He's
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: even announced dead on the broadcast, but they don't announce
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: it to the arena and they keep it kind of dark,
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: and they're like getting him out of there.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: They the show must go on.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: And that's where some of the controversy lies with people,
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: is that should you have stopped the show? Should the
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: show have keep going on? But my thing is, was
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: this a sacrifice? Because after that moment they skyrocket and
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: not only ratings, but then four to six months later
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: they go public. WWF goes public and now they're this
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: huge mega conglomerate that just crushes WCW. Maybe it's not
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: exactly a blood ritual, blood sacrifice, but I don't know.
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: Man.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: My tinfoil hat came on while I'm watching this and
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: I was doing a little bit research. While I'm doing it,
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: I'm like, but not only let me let me throw
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: you one more over though. A year before this, there
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: was a Batman episode Batman cartoon episode called over the
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: Edge that girl falls off the building and dies. I'm
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: just saying, man, something, maybe you know that one year
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: to the date on May twenty third, nineteen ninety eight,
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: to go look this up. You can find a Batman
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: episode and May twenty third, nineteen ninety nine is went backlash?
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Was it okay? I don't think you have to pick
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and choose like here here, for example, a blood sacrifice
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't always have to be pre planned in order for
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: it to work out. Right. Maybe this is a bad analogy,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: but there's people that they're driving maybe upstate New York.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: But you're driving your truck in the middle of the
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: night and you hit a deer, right, and now it's like, man,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: you just also happen to not have any food in
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: the frigerator, and you don't have a job, and you
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: don't have great resources. It's like, man, I just hit
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: this deer. I guess I'm eating for the next week
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: or the next month. Right, I've got venison is on
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: the menu all of a sudden. So you're able to
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: take an actual blood sed animal sacrifice and turn that
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: into a really strong benefit towards you. Now, if someone
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: wants to look at that from the outside looking in
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: and be like, I bet he like he hit that
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: deer on purpose. He wanted to fill his frigerator up
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: with venison. Maybe you'll never really know. You'll never know
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: the exact intent were you driving on that road at
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: that part of the night because you knew a deer
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: would jump out at you, and like, this is how
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: you go fishing essentially. Like, again, maybe a bad analogy,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: but here's what we're talking about with the owen Hart
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: thing is that when he falls and he dies, it
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean that all that had to be pre planned,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: but the second did it happens. I remember I wasn't
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: there at that arena. I was like on the front lines.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: This is right during the moment when I went from
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: caring about wrestling to really not caring. And I remember
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: this was Wrestling's not real because of all the stuff
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: that you had talked about, where like they get in
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: the ring and they hug it out, there's the one
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: finger push of doom or whatever. Like there's all these
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: examples where if you're at school and you're telling someone like, yeah,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: like wrestling and someone's like, what are you a baby?
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: It's all fake. Everyone knows it's fake, right, and it's like,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: what do you mean, No, it's not fake. So, like
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: this debate was kind of going on, and I was
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: at the front lines of that debate because I'm transitioning
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: like I'm just going to watch boxing and boxing's not
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: fake and I remember when this happened. This was an
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: example of like, na, bro, it's not fake. Didn't you
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: hear someone died last night? Like someone actually died in
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: the ring. And if you don't know about all the
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: details because they weren't coming forth with the details you'd
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: like from the outside world, doesn't realize, Oh, there was
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: a malcam function with this theatrical thing that was going on,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: all those extra details get lost into like no, Brell
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Wrestling's not fake, you know, like someone died. Someone died
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: on TV, and that's proof that this maybe there is
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: something real to it. And I think that was kind
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: of like the blood sacrifice. It wasn't that someone was
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: thinking somebody needs to die tonight in order to do this.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: But as soon as that happened, an actual death occurred
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: in the ring, somebody in some room somewhere. I'm not
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: saying it's Vince McMahon, it was probably Vince McMahon and
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: he's probably like, this is the thing, like now we're edgy.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Now now the attitude era of WWF can start at
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: this moment because someone literally just died and maybe it's
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: just a happy coincidence for the general wrestling industry. That
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: it was like the death of this campy good guy
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: do gooder that was making fun of the old era.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: He dies and the very next thing that happens, like
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: you mentioned with the stone cold Steve Austin stuff, there
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: were no good guys left. Like the whole entire NWL
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: and NWL and DX generation was that there's no more
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: baby faces. The baby faces are now all the heels,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: and the heels are basically just like worse baby faces.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the roles flipped completely, and also there is like
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: stuff where they're like, well, was he now going against
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: Brett Hart. I agree with vincick Mann. I don't think
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: vincric Man would be like, I'm gonna show Brett Hart
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: Like honestly, Brett like he was happy to see who go.
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: It's he was happy that you were there. But I
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: think Brett didn't have that star quality that's going to
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: get you to the mainstream. He can keep the wrestling
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: junkies happy, but as far as the mainstream and taking
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: people to the next level, he's not able to do that.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, again, being Frontlines, I remember Brett Hart trying
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: to be the thing that was getting sold, and I
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: remember the ultimate Warrior thing that was getting sold like
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: I was kind of in on Ultimate Warrior, but it
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: ended at the face paint and the leotard. Brett Hart
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: didn't even have the face paint. He just had the
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: leotard and glasses and like a weird perm And that
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: was kind of it. Like again, when you're watching the
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: old school version of wrestling, Hulk Hogan wasn't just a
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: tall blonde guy that was strong. It was like, this
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: is mister America. So you were watching mister America, Brett Hard.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was watching. I was watching
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: a guy that was going to steal my girlfriend, which
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't as appealing to me as like mister all America.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that's the perfect point.
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: And but also Owen Hart had injured Stone Coat Steve
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: Austin like a year before that too. He had done
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: this pile Driver Moon which is now a band, and
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: he had broke his neck.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: So the upcoming star.
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: So I'm just saying, was there some retaliation, not necessarily
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: to kill.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Him a receipt?
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: Could it be right?
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: Could it be a receipt or what I'm saying, like,
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: maybe not to kill him, but to be like, hey,
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: I'm going to make a buffoon out of him because
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: you idiot, Like look what you did. And there is
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: a track record of McMahon doing this to people. But
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: then now and like you said, they added to era
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: is here and the attitude era is crazy, right, Like
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: there is a lot of cultic stuff. There's like the
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: corporate ministry where the undertaker is leading like this corporate
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: charge that are like these satanic, devilish people. They take
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: Vince McMahon's daughter, who now his daughter and son are
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: now part of the storylines. He brought them into the
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: business where he also I kind of respect him for
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: this though, Like to be honest, his kids wanted to
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: be in the business, and they're like, yeah, we had
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: to do everything that basically what Vince had to do, right,
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: Like they're like, hey, I was a referee, I was
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: a ring boy, I was an announcer. I was like
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: everything you could imagine. And he's like, yeah, you have
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: to do that, And I respect that because if I'm
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: gonna give you a job, I'm not gonna treat you
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: better than I'm gonna treat anybody else. I'm gonna probably
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: be harder on you because now you make me look
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: bad because if you just get everything your way. Now,
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: the other wrestlers are gonna be kind of like feeling
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: a type of way of like, m I guess Shane
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: could do whatever. Now you have to earn that from
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: me with all of them, and it's like they saved
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: about this film is like Vince is the father of wrestling, right,
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: Like all these wrestlers are like, well, he's kind of
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: like a father figure. And some of them, I'm like, you, guys,
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: aren't that far an age man? Like how a father
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: figure to you? But it seems like he is this
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: father of wrestling, but in this attitude era where you
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: get a stone Coat Steve Austin who's going against his boss. Right,
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: he's showing he's the working class man. He's reflecting what
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: is going on in society. And I thought it was
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: also interesting to have a group later who you know
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: the Rock gets super famous from It's the Nation of Domination.
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: So it's the Nation of Domination, the nWo time, d
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: X time, all these different stone colde characters where you're
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: having this rebellion against authority. Right, the Generation X was
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: basically this huge rebel. It was the nWo of WWF.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Right, they kind of I didn't even realize that until
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: we're watching this. That was when I was like the
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: first time in my life that I realized that DX
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: was different than nWo because they were carbon copies of
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: each other, you know what I mean. Like I but
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I guess the nWo was the EXWWF guys that went
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: to the WCW and then they turned into bad guys
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Hulk Hogan and and you know, Triple X and all them.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: But then the WWF were basically saying, we need our
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: version of that, and that's where DX came from. Maybe
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: that's obvious to everyone else that was paying attention at
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: the time. I had no idea. I thought they were
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: the exact same group, and the nWo was the ones
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: that were saying suck it and everything.
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: I think they were identical because the people involved in
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: both groups were friends, right, the ones that went to.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: WWE, I mean that stayed in WWE.
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: And then the ones that went to WCW they were
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: the click So they probably already had an idea like
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: obviously the Hogan thing is different, but I'm saying I
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: think they had this idea of like, let's change wrestling
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: and then and they ultimately did because they didn't one
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: you know, WCW and then the other half of them
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: were doing in WWF. But now you saw like this
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: family friendly thing going over, Like you, I went to
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: a show. I think this is when the last like
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: when I kind of got it was like ninety eight
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: ish before like the Owen Heart because I vaguely remember
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: the Owen Heart thing too, like that's when I was
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: kind of like paying attention but not paying attention. But
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: I went to a Monday and I raw in ninety
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: eight I think it was, And that's the time when
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: like the DX was out there telling everybody suck it
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: and then they're like girl show, You're come on, like
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: you know you're at it like I'm like a twelve
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: year old or something like that.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: And then you're like fuck, yeah, man, this is kind
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: of like so I could see me.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: But then it was just it was it was a
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: social suicide to be like I'm a ret like never
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: like I was like I'm done with this, like like
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: you said, like I'm not gonna be like yeah, I
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: watched wrestling like there was people you would see say
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: that and I'm like he's brave, man, Like you're you're
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: about to get it bro like you're cause then you're
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: not only do you get the it's fake, You're like,
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: you know, it's two naked dudes laying on.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: Top of each other, and you're like, oh man, it is,
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: isn't it? Like they're in their underwears jumping around, You're like,
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: oh God, Like what am I watching?
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: But now they became this like let's sell sex, sell
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: sex appeal, Like they came a whole other way with
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: like hardcore stuff where people are getting injured, jumping from
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: high places, bloody scenes, and it just turned into like
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: Jerry Springer meets boxing meets like you know, moy Ti
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: or whatever in this in a theater mode though, And
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: now you're getting these storylines, but the storylines are darker
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: and like they take even more twist. They were even
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: saying at one point there's a storyline in Stephanie Meggan's like,
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: I don't want to talk about it, and then Vince
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: does talk about it and he's like, yeah, something like.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: I was gonna like I ampregnated her or something.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was it was an incest storyline which show
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: and so I made a little list of all of
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: the different things that they brought up. They did during
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: this Attitude era, which was again this was them in
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: retaliation because they were targeting eight to twelve year olds.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Then WCW comes along and they're like, well, we're going
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: to target twelve to fourteen year olds, and then they
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: start eating WWF's lunch until Owen Hart dies and then
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: the Attitude era kind of begins all kind of like
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: melts together. So the other parts of this early Attitude era,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: which is late nineties early two thousands, I assume that
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: they've got white wrestlers showing up in the ring in blackface.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: That got a version where I don't know if it
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: was Hull Cogan, but it was basically a baby face.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: It might have been not Stone Cold, Steve b Aston,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: might have been The Rock, but he's like, take your
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: pick in any of these hose, like they were basically
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: wrestling over who gets to just have sex with a
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: woman that doesn't get a say in any of it.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: There was one where I think The Rock says stop
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: grinnin and drop your linen, like telling women to disrobe
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: in front of the entire audience. He also tells China,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: He's like, you sure look good on your knees, China.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: So like there's all these very overt references. And then
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: they also mentioned that in the Attitude era that the
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: women wrest like, the women wrestlers weren't wrestling, they were
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: just there as eye candy. And then they would have
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: like bron panty matches, they'd have mud wrestling. So it
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: definitely starts taking this angle where if you brought your
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: eight year old kid there, if it's like a mom
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: and it's like, what's that, honey, you like wrestling? Okay, yeah, sure,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: I remember wrestling from when I was a kid. Whole
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: Cogan right Ultimate war here. So they bring their eight
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: year old to the ring and it's like women flashing,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: getting in the mud wrestling and bron panty matches, fighting
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: over viagra. I think maybe that was when they were like, okay,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I'm not bringing my kid to this anymore. So they
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: did lock in the older crowd, but at the sacrifice
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: of losing the entire younger crowd.
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: And they didn't mention much of this either, but like
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: they had a character in there. His name was val Venus,
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: and he was supposed to be a adult film star
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: and he would just be in like a like his
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: little promotions would be like with women, like a woman
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: would he'd be talking in the car and then a
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: woman's head would be coming up like he's like. So
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: they leaned into that stuff really hard, like in every aspect.
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: And then they also not only did the sex part,
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: but they they really got into a lot of like
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: dark stuff, Like they take Stephanie McMahon at one point
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: and they have her light to a pentagram and she's
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: in at the altar being gonna be sacrificed. Tons of
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: pentagrams throughout like this whole stuff where you're seeing like
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: this darker side. And again they're trying to be edgy,
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: they're trying to be different. They seeing what works somewhere else.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: But I think no religion and morality, Like they don't
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: care about religion and morality. It's just like this is
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: gonna get people watching and talking, so let's just do it.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Let's just put let's put my own daughter in an
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: incestuous uh storyline where like me, her own father is
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: impregnanting her and then strap her up to the wall
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: with pentagram Like that was just something that they would
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: talk about like, oh, that will get total clicks, that'll
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: get some eyeballs.
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: And then another convenient tragedy kind of like ties them
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: together to be like, well, we could also market this
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: because now they're public, they're everywhere, they're building. I didn't
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: even know this, but because I watched this document, I
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: didn't know there was a WWF restaurant and like a
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: bar and grill, and they pretty much try to venture
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: into everything.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: They were this shoot because they were the only thing
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: out there. They were the only competition. They were now public,
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: they were like we like Vince even said, like we
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: have all this new capital that we're like, we're just
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: gonna invest it into.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Stuff, spend money that we spent.
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: As much money as possible. They try to do anything
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: and everything and a lot of stuff. I will say
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: that they're innovative, like that they've come up with. They
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: also they're the to me, they were one of the
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: first people that were really onto this streaming stuff.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: Right, they had their WWE channel.
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: They were forefront of a lot of that stuff that
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: they didn't speak about in this a lot. But now
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: you get another tragedy, Crispin Waugh and his wife and
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: his son die, and immediately the thing to do in
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: wrestling is like, okay, a wrestler died, which unfortunately was
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: a common thing. Like they showed through a list of
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: people that like thirty eight, forty two, you know what
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, thirty.
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: Five under the age of fifty.
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: It was at least a couple dozen, right Like that,
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: they just run through of like these guys are dying
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: from drug overdoses or killing themselves or which they claim
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: is ct And then this is when we kind of
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: get into the CTE stuff. But as soon as ben
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: Wah and the wife are announced that they've passed and
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: they don't nobody knows the story at the time. Now
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: the story gets a little bit crazier because the next
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: night they have like a tribute to ben Waugh and
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: then the story comes out ben Wall killed his wife
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: and son and then killed himself. And they're like, oh,
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: this now has leaked over from this attitude era and
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: they're like they're kind of in retrospect, like is this
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: gonna be bad for business? This is where Vince is
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: a businessman, where he's like, yeah, we can do whatever.
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: And it kind of got out of control. I mean,
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: like you alluded to some of it, Like they kind
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: of sprinkled it through all the episodes of like where
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: does Vince McMahon mix his real life with some of
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: these storylines, Like there was a storyline where you know,
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: he's cheating on his wife in that with this Trish
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: Stratus or something like that, just like his assistant, which
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: where he really did And he admits in an issue
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: of Playboy that he, you know, is infidelity with his
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: wife and seeing how bad it hurt her and stuff.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: Did he involve those He.
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: Doesn't really allude to that, but I'm sure that that
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: obviously was inspiration for some of this. But even degrading
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: when it like goes past the ring Boy scandals with
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: and he's like regrading some of these women that they claim,
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: like one of the other wrestlers claimed that she was
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: supposed to do some stuff or he was offered like
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: some like hey, I want you to show more tits
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: or I want you to like come do this and that,
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: and she refused to that. She said her character was
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: assassinated for that. I don't know, but I also will
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: be like why wouldn't it right? Like you're the boss,
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: he runs that bubble now he's into it, Like where,
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: oh crap. All this has kind of led to us
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: like maybe stopping the money train because now we're getting
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: that bad publicity. We're going back to the ring boy scandal,
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: We're going back to the steroids error, going the Owen
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: Heart was bad, but you you got proven in court
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: that it was an accident. It wasn't your fault, right,
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: Like the company that was doing the stunt, they had
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: a faulty all on them. It's not on you. But
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: now it's been wanting with the CTE. They're like, well,
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: you know a lot of these wrestlers abuse drugs. Why
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: are these wrestlers dying so young? Why is this happening?
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: Are this these head injuries? You're working them like three
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: hundred and fifty days a year, Like, what's going on?
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: A lot of these doors started opening. And now Vince
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: mcbann had another pivot point, like I have to pivot,
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: So he leaned into the CTE stuff and goes, you
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: know what, what's happening? Let me know about this, and
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: he decided to like, let's take off the TV fourteen rating,
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: let's go back to PG.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: Let's put this into the hands.
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: Of like sixteen to you know, five year olds whatever,
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: like that Young Children era, and then we'll still gravitate
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: some of the older people will be good. And then
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: everything exploded again where you're able to have these huge
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: names on there, you're having like the breakfast cereals, you're
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: having the things and toys that are marketed towards kids.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: And then they're like they probably weren't selling as much
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: merchandise as the attitude era for a teenage. I don't
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: know a lot of teenagers that if they were watching it,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: are like, yeah, like I have every wrestler you know
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: what I mean, You're not going to be the cool
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: eighteen year old sixteen year old a party, like you
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: want to go check out my Stone Coach, do you
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: Boxington collection?
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Well that's also it was the pivot was TVPG instead
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: of fourteen. No more hitting people in the hair in
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: the head with chairs. That was out. A lot of
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: wrestlers were like upset about that that they were going
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: to add drug testing. And then also I don't know
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: if this was like part of the plan, but all
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: of a sudden there was no more Undertaker and like
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of like like Yoka Zuma and like
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: all of these kind of character names. Now everyone was
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: first name, last name. It was going to be Cody
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Rhoads or it was going to be John Cena or
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: it was going to be all like like a regular
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: person that you could identify with, and that apparently worked.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, this is after the time. I'm already out.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: I'm long out of wrestling at this point, so I
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: don't really care by the time Cody Rhodes and John
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Seen and everyone come up on the scene. But apparently
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: whatever Vince did to go back and target younger kids,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: he was like, we made more money like that year
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: than like the ten years combined previous. When he thought
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: he was already on top of the world, all of
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: a sudden, this was him like turned like opening up
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: that money faucet and the money just started flowing. So
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: and I guess you could only really do that because
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: first it was this edgy WCW and the ECW that
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: were like eating the lunch. But then once he absorbed
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: all of that, then he's like, Okay, now let me
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: take this entire landscape and bring it back to the
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: kids again, which he had originally started out. So it's
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: almost like he had to meet them, beat them at
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: the place where they're we're all equal, and then go
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: back to where he's like, all right, now let me
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: show you guys how to make real money again.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: Hidden hidden treasures and overboard moments.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: This is tons of hidden treasures as far as like
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: uh leaven the Hulk documentary, where you're getting some of
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: the nostalgia.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: But to me, the hidden treasure.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: Is actually getting the perspectives from the other wrestler, like
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: you got in you got Vince McMahon, Like this is
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: like the actual the closest you're gonna get. I think
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: the only other way was if you read that Playboy
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: article like to get Vince McMahon right like, and obviously
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: he still had his guard up.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: He's not gonna really reveal everything.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: There was even a moment when he said, oh, I
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: got some stories, not gonna tell you any of them stories,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: And that's when I was like, oh man, these are
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: probably like terrible Epstein Islands stuff. I don't know, Like
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: I my brain went everywhere on that moment. But I think,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: to me, there's not a lot of overboard moments as
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: far as wrestling is overboard, Like everything they do is overboard,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: like that is the name of the game is like changing,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: and the hidden treasure really is like Vince McMahon's genius
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: and he's just a king of pivot right, Like he's
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: a oh, let's pivot, like this is not working, let's
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: repivot to this to make more money.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: And it seems like every role he gets high.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: Now there may be some other things that play, right,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: like we don't know, like maybe he's connected in mafia
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: or some kind of like say, kind of coult thing.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I didn't say that there may be
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: some stuff out there. I don't know.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: But the way that he's able to take these tragedy
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: tragedies and this bad publicity and turn it into profit
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: is kind of amazing.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: I mean the I don't really have overboard for the
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: same kind of reason. There are a lot of things
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: that are just kind of not spoken about and they
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: don't get into the details for obvious reasons like nobody
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: long story short, I don't think anyone involved in this
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: documentary wanted to incriminate themselves on thing horrible things they've
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: done that they haven't already exposed already. But man, I
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: swear every almost every single whistler that they interview in
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: this series, they all have this moment where they're like, uh, yeah, man,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: we were all doing that, and way worse, Like we
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: were doing stuff so bad. I wouldn't even want to
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: talk about how bad these things were. They were, like
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: you get the impression that they were just like killing
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: and raping and murdering people for fun and profit at
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: a certain point, because it's like they could do no wrong.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: They had, you know, all the money, all the power,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: all the influence in the world. So yeah, whatever, we
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: were doing all kinds of horrible stuff. Like the way
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: that they casually all admit that they're doing things that
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: would put them in prison in the twenty twenties, it's
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: like it was a different time, you know. So like
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: that level of candacies is interesting that having this one
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: and then also I guess bearing the lead a little bit,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: but I think, like three quarters of the way into
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: them filming this documentary, which is like unprecedented access to
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Vince McMahon, they get to talk to him for all
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: his time, he gets like more charges. There's like sex
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: trafficking charges brought up. There's some crazy emails that start
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: getting brought up. So he leaves, you don't, he doesn't
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: come back at a certain point, like they're doing regular interviews,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden there's no more Vince
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: McMahon interviews. That's because he ceases to start working or
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: to continue working with this like documentary series, and they
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: start just saying like, all right, well, Vince McMahon's not
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: here to talk about it. Here's what the charges are.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: And like some of these text messages, it just it
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: reads like a horny thirteen year old would be like
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: sending to you know, someone like anonymously on the internet.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: But this is him talking to his employees and to like,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: you know, people that he works with, and it's like,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: I guess, just to give you the highlights, there's a
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: threesome that involves defecation and restraint. There's forceful use of
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: sex toys named after male wrestlers, So I assume he's like,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: let's see how you handle the Ultimate Warrior, you know,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Like there's like weird, crazy stuff in here. And in
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: the middle of all of this going on, he ends
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: up resigning from yet another huge merger between TKO and WWE,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: and Vince McMahon basically sells all of his stock and
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: just like exits so that he whatever shit is basically
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: on him now he has to remove himself from this
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: board like this corporation that now runs wrestling. He gets
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: two billion dollars with a bee out of him exiting
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: all of this. So it just kind of crazy to
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: see like this massive empire that he really built. And
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: there was one part in this entire documentary that I
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: thought was interesting. They didn't really focus on it too much,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: but that his kid, his son was telling him like, Dad,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: there's this thing called like UFC. There's this MMA stuff.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: I really think we should invest. It's basically in a wheelhouse.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: They're doing real fighting, but they don't have any of
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: the theatrics that we do. And Vince McMahon's like, all right, son,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: that's cute and all, but like I'm the businessman and
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: I think I know what I'm doing here, and it's
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: it's almost an exact reflection of what his dad did
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: to him, where it's like that's a nice son pat
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: on the back, like Okay, go play with your toys now.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: But man, I could only imagine how badass a Vince
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: McMahon run UFC would be, where you have the same
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: UFC fights, but someone's wearing a clown wig, or someone's
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: like has like a chainsaw. They come out with a
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: chainsaw at first, and then they go and get into
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: a real fight. I almost feel like we're missing that
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: extra little bit of magic. And that's totally on Vince
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: McMahon's shoulders that he bungled that, and man, just imagine
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: like a complete and instead of him doing the XFL.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: I also remember XFL came out in my senior year
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: in high school, I think, and dude, everyone was knew
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: that it was silly and kind of a joke, but
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: everyone one was amped to see it. They were like,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: this is gonna be a spectacle. Even if they suck,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be entertaining. And then that first, you know,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: big XFL game came out and it was like the
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: most boring thing you've ever seen. Everyone's fumbling the ball,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Like you could have just gone to any high school
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: football game and maybe seen a better show. And it's
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: wild to consider how much he put in the XFL,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: yet he didn't entertain the idea from his son to
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: buy the UFC, even when the UFC is like right
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: in the wheelhouse, man, like you could have just it
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: was like a turnkey operation, like that, we're already doing
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: all of these things, let's just do it to this
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: other audience, and I guess just the hubris of like
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: he didn't think of it. Maybe that's what it was,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: But I had no idea that that was even a
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: thing that he went with xfl over UFC and it
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: was the dumbest thing ever. But he still makes a
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: two billion dollars at the end of this.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: It's about that time, see or swim Man.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: I don't even care about Vince McMahon really. I cared
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: about Hulk Cogan, I cared about Ultimate Warrior and some
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: of the things that Vince McMahon made, But I don't
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: really care about the administrative part of like who created
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: wrestling and who was behind the scenes and doing the
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: writing and all the scandals behind that. But this series
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: made me care more than ever thought that I would,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: and it was like a fascinating insight to a true
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: like this is an actual like this guy created Donald
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Trump in my mind, like that we wouldn't have President
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump without Vince McMahon. And I'm not even saying
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: that as a hyperbole, Like I truly, to my core
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: believe that part it's part Vince McMahon, part Raycone, part
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: maybe Masad or whatever it is. But like you don't
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: get Donald Trump without having this weird k fabe thing
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: turned into a national corporate identity that gets merged with
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: like Americana, and that's not just Hulk Hogan or just
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: mister T or just Rocky that makes all that happen.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: Vince McMahon is like the guy behind the scenes that
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: created all that. So I mean, as an insight as
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: to how America works and American politics and how we
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: got our president, you have to see this Vince McMahon series.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: I never would have expected to care about this series
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: as much, but it really is that good.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: It kind of gives you the insight of like when
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: you find out stuff about music where you're like, oh,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: they didn't write all those songs, like somebody put that together,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: Like oh, they just sing it, Like when you find
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: these like things in life in pop culture where you're like, oh,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: I thought they did everything, and now you're learning that,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: oh there was people orchestrated behind the scenes. And to
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: find out I already knew a lot about this stuff
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 4: with Vince McMahon. And then there's stuff they didn't go
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: into obviously, like where like supposedly him sleeping with wrestlers
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: and weird stuff, which I'm sure, but again, this is
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: a Netflix documentary. There's only so much you could get into,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: and a lot of the guys aren't gonna say anything
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: because they're not gonna go on camera and be like, yeah,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: Wait, hold on, what what are these rumors? What are
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: the rumors? Vince McMahon was sleeping with Witch wrestlers.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: There was like stuff with Warrior, There's stuff with like
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: Hogan in him where Sean ok with him and Sean
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: Michaels were like linking the I again, are they saying
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: that because of what happened?
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: Who knows?
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: Right? But this this film right here, to me, the
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: best part of it, the reason that I liked it
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: and I give it a swim, is because it gives
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: you this insight to a business psychopath, right, a psychopathic businessman,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: of where you'll do anything and everything to dominate an industry.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: And I can respect that because I'm like, okay, like
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: you are who you are, and you're you're not you're
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: leaning into it. He's not afraid. He's not gonna show
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: you everything either. He's gonna let you have to do
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: your own digging. He's not gonna let you say, oh yeah,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: I'm a piece of shit, like he's like, I'm a
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: good guy, like he's doing and playing the party's supposed to.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: And it just shows you another perspective of how people
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: can fall into, like the characters they make in of
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: each other.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be with acting or music or anything.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: It's just in general, like people create characters in their
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 4: everyday life when they go to work and everything, and
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: they build these things up. So that's why there's a
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: lot of these faults, because they're able to dissociate and
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: be like, well, that wasn't me, that was mister McMahon, right,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: Vince McMahon didn't do that, mister McMahon. The character did that.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: So they're away. They it's a way, a loophole to
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: get out them out of a.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: Lot of stuff.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: I give this a new a swim all the way,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: and I think this is the attitude error. And if
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: you want to get more of that attitude error, I
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: would suggest you go to Paranoid American dot com.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: Get you a copy of that Illuminati.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 5: Man.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: It brings you back to that attitude era of the
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: WWF when you know you got TNA all over it.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: Man, don't forget to go to kill the moonckinbirds dot com.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: Under the docks dot com like, subscribe and share share
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: of the show.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: This is under the docs.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: Peace something from parent, noy Americans by something just by something.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 6: From paron no americanet some merch, by some art dealingk
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 6: to cars, say you're back, need that print.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: Now your hair?
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 7: You consent by your comic tree, your phone, Think the start,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 7: I one more, buy a stick from the store, Think
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 7: the start. I want more.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: By something.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 6: Just by shothing from hearing no American, just by shot,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 6: just by shot from parent, noi American.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: I screw up my life for wag drifting. The right
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: to page.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 8: Will any light to bring If you're the flight of
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 8: the plane, paper the highs of blaze, somewhat of an
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 8: amazing feel. When it's real, the real, you will engage
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 8: it your favorite the pose, the lord of an arrangement.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 8: I gave you the proper results to hit the pavement
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 8: if they your emotional hate may be your language the game,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 8: how they playing it well without lakes evaded and whatever
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 8: the costs see all the shamship. Thanks get to cappeltated
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 8: that it is the apex executional flame.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: You walked ook your little bombs.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 8: Distributed in war, rather crusome for eyes to see.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: Maxim out.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 8: Then I light my trees, blowing off in the face.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 8: You're despising me for what throat calculated that rather cut
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 8: throat perinoid.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: American must be all the blunt spoke from real Lord.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 8: Give me your day, your way, vacate. They weight around
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 8: that hate. Whatever they say, matter's got in the least
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 8: bit tween you heavy rotate when the beat hit some things.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 3: Because you welcome the jackers, for well, you welcome.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: They ain't ever had a deal.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 8: You welcome, man. They lacking a pill. You welcome, yet
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 8: they going It's still You're welcome.