Latest / The Curve / Lucy Blakiston on Building ‘Shit You Should Care About’ and Doing Life Differently.

Transcript

Lucy Blakiston on Building ‘Shit You Should Care About’ and Doing Life Differently. · The Curve

• 0:00
  What success looks like to a 33 year old single woman is very, very, very different to the narrative that we've been told for a really long time.
• 0:09
  I look at you and to me, this is like the success that I strive for.
• 0:13
  My name is Lucy Bleichiston.
• 0:15
  Honestly, if I wasn't single, none of this would have happened.
• 0:18
  Billy Ireland has just put us on a story. I ran a grand age, just followed us.
• 0:22
  I was just getting so much hate online and I was trying my best.
• 0:25
  Oh my God, I've been building this business and now it's done and what am I going to do?
• 0:29
  Our agency talked about it and you're going to run the dice.
• 0:32
  You're going to take the safe off of something and I was like, am I a fucking succession?
• 0:36
  That was when we went from 200,000 to a million followers in a month.
• 0:42
  The book itself ruined my life and the money doesn't come instantly and sometimes it feels like it doesn't come ever.
• 0:50
  That and then also how sort of complex things like investing or how like manly it all felt.
• 0:56
  Hopics are kept mystified for a reason.
• 1:00
  It just takes us some fucking long to change any fact.
• 1:03
  You and I and probably a lot of women that feel more safe being financially independent than we would if we had our money tied to someone else.
• 1:11
  And also I'm just not that interested in being in a relationship so I love that for me.
• 1:17
  Lose I, I feel like this has been such a long time coming this interview.
• 1:22
  Shit you should care about from the outside is such a global icon and what you've created is just phenomenal.
• 1:30
  In terms of social awareness and having important conversations that educate a younger audience about consuming media in a totally different way.
• 1:42
  It's just like I look at it and I'm like, hmm chef's kiss.
• 1:45
  But do you find from the outside you have conversations with people where they're like, Lucy, you're absolutely killing it.
• 1:52
  And you're like, yep, yep, check my bank account, give me some money.
• 1:56
  Honestly, it's the amount of times I want to say to people like, hey, 3 million followers does not mean $3 million.
• 2:05
  And like, I'm so pecky almost annoyingly so that I don't really like advertising on Instagram.
• 2:13
  I like to keep it very pure.
• 2:15
  So I'm like turning, I mean, I don't get off and shit ton of money, but I like turn down a lot of sort of add opportunities.
• 2:23
  And so I would love to be able to see everyone down and be like, hey, I'm probably on a very similar.
• 2:30
  If not smaller salary than you with a lot less job security and it's quite stressful, but also either best job in the world.
• 2:40
  So I would sacrifice quite a bit of money I reckon to like live the job I do.
• 2:45
  And you're so, so good at it.
• 2:47
  And I think that also what you're doing is such a brilliant example of investing in your skills and investing in your future in a totally different way to want a lot of people your age are doing.
• 2:57
  You know, like if you were to ever God forbid, let's just hope this never happens.
• 3:01
  But if you ever left shit you should care about or you moved on to something else, the skills and the experience that you've gained from that would stand you
• 3:09
  decades ahead, anyone else going for any kind of role in the sort of media online sphere, you know, and you know that.
• 3:16
  So even though the money's not coming in in a traditional sense from a salary, you're investing in your skills and your CV in a completely different way to what a lot of your friends are doing.
• 3:26
  Like that is so reassuring to hear.
• 3:28
  I had like a moment at the end of 2023 where I was just getting so much hate online and I was trying my best and and I was like, I need to just delete everything.
• 3:41
  I'm not qualified to do anything.
• 3:43
  What kind of job can I even get like I had a real.
• 3:46
  Oh my God, I've been building this business and now now it's done and what am I going to do?
• 3:51
  And my friends just had to sit me down and be like, Lucy, what the hell is this?
• 3:55
  Like you, you know what you can do, we know what you can do.
• 3:58
  And I think when you just had to back yourself for so long and you haven't had, I mean, I get external validation all the time.
• 4:04
  But I don't have a boss telling me that I'm doing a good job, right?
• 4:07
  And so it's really nice to hear that.
• 4:10
  I think it's completely valid and I experienced the exact same thing with the curve before we worked with anyone because you don't have that same feedback loop of like, am I doing a good job?
• 4:18
  Yeah, what could I have done better?
• 4:20
  You're learning from your mistakes rather than someone else putting some guardrails around you.
• 4:24
  And I think that's a really hard and sometimes super lonely place to be.
• 4:28
  So I completely understand that.
• 4:30
  Yeah, I remember when I finished uni and you should care about it, I had started like I'd started running it.
• 4:36
  It was 2018 and I applied for a bunch of jobs in Auckland and PR and in media thinking like, cool.
• 4:44
  I think I'd be good at this and I just got none of them.
• 4:47
  Like I'd get some interviews and people would make me and I just wouldn't get the jobs.
• 4:51
  And I was thinking like, honestly, what the hell, what more can I be doing?
• 4:54
  And then luckily I didn't get any of them because I put all my energy into shit you should care about.
• 4:59
  But I was quite just heartened by that.
• 5:02
  I remember thinking like, who are you going to hire if not me?
• 5:06
  Like I'm already building this really cool thing.
• 5:08
  I think that was when people didn't really understand what it was.
• 5:11
  And everyone was still kind of getting their news in a semi-traditional way maybe.
• 5:16
  Yeah, that was like six years ago.
• 5:18
  But now I really, now I consult for people.
• 5:20
  So I'm like, hey, actually I know my shit and you could learn a lot from me, guys.
• 5:25
  Oh, I think it's so cool to hear that you've come, you know, like from that 2023 when you even when you had that moment of like,
• 5:33
  because I do think when you're online and when you're a digital brain or you can get canceled tomorrow,
• 5:38
  there is this real fear of it could be taken away so quickly.
• 5:42
  And what I am building right now is not material in terms of what's coming into my bank account.
• 5:46
  Therefore that fear or that like, I just want to give up and move on when something threatens everything is so real and so scary.
• 5:55
  I totally understand that.
• 5:57
  When was the moment for you when you actually before we move on?
• 6:02
  Can I just say as from someone from the outside and it doesn't sound like you need this validation anymore,
• 6:07
  but I've been really like soul searching in this sort of space for myself lately because the traditional
• 6:15
  what success looks like to a 33 year old single woman is very, very, very different to the narrative that we've been told for a really long time.
• 6:24
  And the way that I think about you and your skills and your success and your innovation and being so ahead of the curve
• 6:32
  in all of the different ways that you have starting this brand and building it to where it is today.
• 6:37
  I look at you and to me this is like the success that I strive for.
• 6:42
  And so just as an outside perspective like when I have those moments of being like,
• 6:49
  what am I doing? All my friends are like popping out their third child and they've got their white picket fence and they've got their dog
• 6:56
  and they've got all their stability and I don't have that.
• 6:59
  I have to really remind myself of that and so speaking to you and hearing you have the same insecurities is like
• 7:04
  almost validating for the path that I've chosen to because I look at what you're doing and I just think phenomenal.
• 7:10
  It's like what we're doing. I wrote about this in our book Make It Makes Sense and it's one of my favorite sort of things that I did to validate myself is like
• 7:19
  I wrote this piece about how I wouldn't have been able to start.
• 7:24
  Should you should care about if I was off being busy like getting ramen with my boyfriend.
• 7:29
  Like if I was sitting in my uni lecture, which is where it all started.
• 7:33
  And instead of texting my two best friends saying, I don't understand this.
• 7:37
  Let's start something called shit you should care about.
• 7:40
  If my mind was like, oh let me text my boyfriend and say I'm so bored of my lecture, let's go get food.
• 7:44
  Like it just wouldn't have happened like I had to be a single independence.
• 7:49
  I had to sort of live my life.
• 7:51
  I feel like my 20s have been real career focused and as I get to the end of my 20s, I'm becoming more like younger and doing all the
• 8:00
  fun shit that I probably missed out on.
• 8:02
  But I just, I really do feel like if I honestly if I wasn't single, none of this would have happened.
• 8:07
  And I try not to sound like a spinster because I love really hard and I love love and all that kind of stuff.
• 8:14
  But I just, I have to remind myself too, like, oh loose, you did this the right way around for yourself.
• 8:20
  Even though it's like quite a lonely endeavor and the money doesn't come instantly and sometimes it feels like it doesn't come ever.
• 8:29
  I mean, we worked on this for three years before even like thinking it was a business, whereas now I think people start brands.
• 8:35
  They say like, shit, you should care about and they're like, cool, I'll start one of them and I'll start generating some income.
• 8:40
  And I want to be like, oh, probably not for like a few years until you know, but some trust.
• 8:46
  But yeah, I mean likewise hearing that validation from you, I'm like, we're just, we're doing it differently, but doesn't mean we're doing it wrong.
• 8:54
  Totally. And I think, I think that I've gone in and out though of I've had to really redefine success because there's different types of success, there's financial success, there's social success in terms of your friendships and the people that you hold close to you.
• 9:10
  There is success in terms of skill set in terms of achievements like there's so many different things. And I think because for a long time we lumped success as a blanket statement in with the financial what is in your bank account, what are the assets, what's in your portfolio.
• 9:25
  I've had to really look at the way that I think about that and validate myself in the same way with the decisions that I've made because I actually agree.
• 9:33
  I mean, I haven't spoken about this on the podcast and I haven't because it's quite raw, but like I broke up with my boyfriend a couple of months ago.
• 9:39
  And really it came down to the fact that like, I actually had to choose what I was putting my time and energy into because the relationship wasn't super straightforward.
• 9:50
  And it did require a lot of time and energy from me if I wanted to see it grow and thrive and I just didn't have enough space in my box, not fuck that sounds so sexual when I didn't mean for it.
• 10:01
  But like in my in my in my box of life, you know, where I have my job and I have my friends and I have exercise and I have trying to be healthy and all those things, there wasn't enough space for everything to fit.
• 10:12
  And I had to make a decision and it was really heartbreaking and so sad and I still feel like, God, I wish I could like have it all, you know, and I wish that I had space for everything.
• 10:23
  But there's also just things come at different times and for me, my timing is different. So a lot of my friends around me and that's also okay.
• 10:31
  And it's really important to realize that the order I'm doing things in is different, but it works for me and I'm not, I can't just pause the curve or my business or the things that I am like have worked so fucking hard on to chase what society deems is the most successful thing, which is a financial stability and also a romantic partner.
• 10:54
  And I guess my my question to you is like you're in a similar trajectory to me and you have like you've put your career as like this is something that I'm focusing on.
• 11:04
  And you've written this amazing book which everyone listening should go and buy and we'll put more details in the podcast show notes.
• 11:12
  But when it came to being honest about all of those different elements of your life and talking about it was there a particular subject or part of that book that was more difficult to write than others because if anyone reads your newsletters they just say it seems like they flow out of you.
• 11:27
  But when it came to the book was there moments or topics where that didn't flow the same and it was actually harder.
• 11:33
  The book itself like ruined my life. I'm so used to writing for the internet and I don't have an editor like I run the risk of getting canceled every time I post or send a newsletter which is literally like multiple times a day.
• 11:51
  So it's crazy that I don't have an editor I just have like a really strong gut feeling which once you've been doing this for six years it's like the strongest muscle in my body.
• 12:00
  But the book because it was like a labor of love for a really long time I just I realized that I'm not going to doing long term projects I like to do really quick like get it on my desk and get off my desk projects.
• 12:16
  And I think the obvious answer for was there a subject that was hard to write about would be there's a grief chapter in there about how I lost my younger brother when I was what twenty twenty three so not that long ago.
• 12:31
  Gosh I had no idea and like fuck that is just the most heartbreaking thing and so sorry.
• 12:38
  Yeah honestly it's fucking sucks that if you read the book it's like really fucked up what happened and I did save that actually from the internet because I knew I wanted to write it for James that's my little brother and like in a way that felt quite like a bit more meaningful a bit more long lasting not that fleeting but that wasn't the hardest part to write that like flowed out of me I think because it felt like an ode like I was always wondering what was I going to do for my little brother let me write something for him that makes sense.
• 13:07
  The hardest part was like I think writing about trying to make like sense of the internet and whether it's whether it's fucked me up more than it's made my life good.
• 13:20
  And I don't know if I ever fully answer that in the book but there's so like the internet has brought me my beautiful life that I love.
• 13:29
  But it also tumblr gave me a fucking eating disorder so it's like okay so so where do we go from here and I'm honestly like the reason I could write it is because I just I feel very healed now like I love my life I love I am I have the best friends ever and I'm medicated so I'm not it's like I'm not having a deal with all of that on my own but I think just coming to terms with whether the internet with a net good or net bad for me.
• 13:55
  And considering that my life trajectory is still being on the internet that was that was hard and honestly writing a book is so hard it did not work for my brain I'm so glad it's done I love it to death so glad it's done.
• 14:10
  Yeah I think I find it incredibly difficult to the whole long term projects without short deadlines is not great for my ADHD you know I need I need this needs to be out yesterday or it's not getting done.
• 14:22
  Not and honestly it didn't work for me luckily I have a I had a co writer bowel who she wrote half the essays I wrote half and she's got a totally different brain to me she's also studied creative writing so there was times where she would look through the draft and be like hey loose you've started every single you say with the same line because I'm used to writing the newsletter which is like hi my angel's hi little shirt's hi babies like.
• 14:46
  Honestly it was like I was learning how to be a writer at the same time as I was like commission to write a fucking book.
• 14:52
  But the books good everyone on that note with the commission pace how does it work financially like I know everyone says books is just like there's no money in writing blah blah blah which we all know but you do get like a chunky or tiny feet up front and then is it like percentage of books.
• 15:08
  So yeah we were I'm not going to say we were lucky because it all came off the back of building shit you should care about none of that was luck but shit yeah that is the attitude that I'm looking for I really I really resent the idea of lucky girl syndrome which I actually I didn't run about in the book.
• 15:27
  Now we got an advance and we had people that were sort of wanting us to write a book from 2020 and they wanted us to do like a coffee table book of shit you should care about blah blah blah stuff I did I had no interest in doing and then I met Belle who came on as a columnist and she was a beautiful writer and initially I just was there to help her publish a book.
• 15:53
  And I didn't really know how I would fit into any of it but I didn't want to write it I just wanted to help another young woman that I could see was a great writer and I had some connections I was like call I'll just like help you and then we seem to propose out to some agents never like Lucy actually you you need to be writing some of this and then from there yeah it goes to like as we're to auction.
• 16:15
  Oh that's quite fun. Yeah it was like really I think we had four people for publishers that wanted it our agency to us at one point like and you're going to roll the dice you're going to take the safe open or something and I was like am I a fucking succession right now like what is this going to auction this is too good I've actually never heard of that for a book.
• 16:34
  I was so interested in someone that's never been in that industry at all before honestly we chose the option with the best advance because I was like we've no idea what the book industry is going to look like you can get you get a percentage of royalties as it outsells the advance and to my knowledge that's how it works.
• 16:53
  Okay so we're going to get back to the whole media and money side of things and actually creating a living out of an online brand which we also know is fucking difficult but I'd love to just dig into the whole doing your 20s wrong which is something that you mentioned earlier in this interview and we sort of touched on the idea of like what a success look like and blah blah blah but if we were talking to younger Sophie and Lucy or we have people listening who I am.
• 17:23
  I don't know if I want to prioritize having kids I don't want to be stressed out about my biological clock I don't want to be worried about what's in my bank account.
• 17:33
  I don't want to be stressed out about my biological clock.
• 17:43
  I don't want to be stressed out about my biological clock I don't want to be worried about what's in my bank account.
• 17:53
  How do we try and empower them to not feel scared to make the same kinds of decisions that we have?
• 17:59
  Don't listen to people that think that you should have a really huge or that you have to have a huge life from a huge place like you can have a huge life from a small place from wherever you want.
• 18:11
  I think I feel like I live a very authentic like whimsical life I love being from a small town I don't like a big city I don't need much I'm not like a Lulu lemon sort of Pilates girl I just need my space and my friends and I wouldn't change any decision that I have made whatsoever.
• 18:32
  I've always been quite a piece with it but the things that I did think I had to do which was like move to a big city move to Europe go networking go and do all this like you know where a pizza skirt which I never did but I just think like don't feel like you have to do especially not in 2025 don't feel like you have to do the things that same like chic.
• 18:57
  What else I would say oh my god don't sign any contracts until you've been doing the business for about five years I wish someone had told me that I don't give away a piece of the pie don't take investment unless you're trying to build rocket ships or something then that you need money.
• 19:14
  But I am such a like bootstrap girl just if you don't if you don't have the money like I worked other jobs on the side to support this instead of always owing someone something.
• 19:28
  So don't take investment I've got so much advice but it's like funny because it's it's a never from things I did wrong it's from things that I luckily and there was actually luck involved here based on the people I knew and my own naivety did right like not sign with agents who give you criminal contracts not give away equity when you don't know what that means.
• 19:50
  And just like all these learnings I had when I was in my mid 20s and I like I got it and do any of that it's so easy as well when you built something that's blown up on the internet like I imagine you had a lot of people calling in from different parts of you know who you being like.
• 20:04
  I can help and do this I can do this and it's like yeah yeah it can feel really genuine and also it can feel like this is going to make it easier but actually it's just not easy you kind of have to accept that starting a business is fucking difficult yeah.
• 20:20
  And if it seems so good to be true not to be like cringe it probably is also at this point I was just living in blinum I didn't know anyone so all these people that was sort of coming to me I was like I didn't even know the landscape at that point so I was like I can't trust any of y'all and thank god I thought that way instead of oh my god here's someone from America that seems really cool wants to invest or whatever.
• 20:43
  What was the moment where you thought holy shit balls this is blowing up you mentioned you had the moment at uni where you thought this is like all wrong like this isn't there like media news isn't being presented to me in a way that makes sense and I.
• 20:56
  I just I feel like there's a gap that could be filled but when was the moment where you really thought holy shit we're onto something here.
• 21:04
  Like in terms of numbers in 2020 when everyone was locked down there was a Trump election there was a New Zealand election and there was also the Black Lives Matter sort of resurgence that was when we went from like 200,000 to a million followers in a month.
• 21:24
  And that coincided with sort of celebrities deciding that they needed to show that they cared about things and for some reason coming to shit you should care about which was so cool but I was also like there's a lot of pressure for like this young girl from blinum New Zealand.
• 21:42
  This gives me goosebumps. I'm like the fact that you have all these actual celebrities sorry to sound cringe but like what that is insane.
• 21:52
  I remember like because I was still running out with my two best friends robes and love at the time and I remember we were sort of spread amongst the country and locked down and I run them and I was like okay guys so.
• 22:04
  Billy I was just put us on a story Ariana Grande just followed us and like I'm freaking out and I was just walking down like one of my solo lock down hockey like nothing felt real and it still doesn't feel real like the internet I still feel quite disconnected from but that's when I was like holy shit and it was also the time when I thought it would just be a blog so me and Ruby was spending all our time and we might know very from this just editing people's writing that they'd submitted and posting it on a blog.
• 22:33
  And like we didn't know anything about ad revenue it was just like a little it was a WordPress blog and then a square space web site that live out of the screen designed for us.
• 22:43
  There was no it was all very pure there was no money involved no money changing hands we weren't making money we were just like all in lockdown.
• 22:51
  So that was when I think it felt like well this is huge and then we got some funding at the end of 2020 from New Zealand on year to make a web series and that gave us enough money for the three of us to be employed for a little while and I think that's when we felt like oh this could be an actual job.
• 23:10
  It was like three years after we'd just been doing it for fun so it really it was it was a slow bird.
• 23:17
  And so did you two best friends do they have equity or is it told yeah so and are they still working in the business.
• 23:24
  No so they both left at separate times live lives in London now and Robes lives in Sydney and we're still best friends but the equity reflects like it's always been my baby from the start.
• 23:38
  I've been the writer and I've been like obsessed with it Robes was working on like the partnership side and like making us media kits and stuff and live was our designer.
• 23:48
  But we always had like really big lean in and lean out periods but I was the one that never lent out I just kept it rolling and and the equity well really happy at like reflects that.
• 23:58
  But also people always say don't start a business with your friends or your best friends but these are like sisters like we've been friends very small towns with children and it's not like when you're like at high school and you have like cat fights and things like that we've never been that type of friends like genuinely having those as my business partners.
• 24:17
  Was the best thing of my whole life still is the best thing ever and now they just watch me doing it with like oh my god Lucy's doing exactly what she should be doing this is perfect she's slaying like there has never been any bad blood and so when people say that I'm like I understand the sentiment but maybe you don't have the right you're not doing it with the right friends or you're not doing it with the right intentions.
• 24:40
  What was the moment that they both all the reason that they both had to lean out like was it financial and was like there's actually just not enough money for all three of us to have a full-time job was it that they wanted they found other opportunities like how did that happen and how did it remain harmonious.
• 24:55
  So in the beginning it was just they would get busy with uni would all get busy with uni or without the jobs and this wasn't paying us at all and I was just I always have loved the internet so I just I liked making sense of the world just because it was fun and and so I would just keep posting and I'd just go live there live them would still be friends and whatever and then when it became a business after we got the New Zealand on air funding we worked together for like two solid years and it was a lot of fun.
• 25:25
  It was never financial issues it was just live wanted to move to London and gone be in a band and live a separate sort of new life and she's an artist and so she's got a very like needs to chop and change mentality.
• 25:42
  She continued on she moved to Sydney and continued on with me for a year during the partnerships and I'd do the content and then she just got to the point where she reached to a ceiling of things she could learn from me and she didn't really love doing sales and so she was like I love the business but I'm not like a shark that's going to go out and you know get you as much as you should be getting.
• 26:02
  I think she felt a bit of guilt about being like I do such a good job with the content and and I could talk about what you should hear about for hours and she was like it's not on my blood to just be like pitching us to people and so she was like I'm going to find another job and I'm like great because I would never want you working in a job that you don't feel like you're learning and you didn't feel like you're comfortable in and then she got amazing jobs after that and we've all like remained best friends and it's just it's worked out really well and I and I don't mind me saying this like I'm not going to do it.
• 26:32
  I prefer doing it on my own and I have a team in terms of I have a wonderful agent now who looks after partnerships and the sub stack is all mine like I that's my baby and that's where I make my salary and I do speaking and things like it's just it's much better me doing it on my own.
• 26:52
  That makes so much sense to me and also I think it the only way that a business or friendship crossover can work is when you're honest about what you want to need and if you're not enjoying or it's not working you have to speak up otherwise it's just like actually going to spiral things into the toilet anyway.
• 27:10
  And I think with us it was like we could tell when everyone was reaching the end of their sort of time we were working it was really fun we had like office space together and Auckland for you know for a few years and it was really fun getting to do that but I think we knew it was for like a season not a lifetime and yeah now we're all just much happier doing our own thing.
• 27:32
  I love that one of the things that you speak about a lot is the idea that being single comes with financial costs and like you know whether that's like rent a party a wedding wedding gifts.
• 27:46
  Why do you think society still structures so much around couples and have you seen any of it shift with the narrative that you're pushing because it's I went to a talk in London a couple of months ago and was talking all about this and how we massively pedestal romantic relationships in terms of legal like everything you know it's just so it's so structured to benefit romantic relationships as almost like a business arrangement.
• 28:13
  What have you seen shift and I guess just what's your perspective on this in general so I think the question of why society like this is because it just takes us so fucking long to change anything I mean not trying to change any laws or any I just think it's like social change is so slow that it's it is how it is but just a terrible way of thinking it's not overly optimistic but I just think the world is set up that way because it just always has been.
• 28:42
  And things take back and forever to change but little things that I do see changing are like in the past few flats or house cheers that I've lived in I've lived with couples and we all split the rent evenly it's not them being like we look we have.
• 29:00
  It's one bedroom between two of us so we're going to heart like you know we're going to have cheaper rent it's been I think the cost of living in and because I love with friends who are like we don't want to shaft you because you're single make you pay more that's one thing that I've really loved and I know some of my friends in London I think they expected the couples to want a cheap room.
• 29:22
  But instead they're like we've split it evenly I love that mindset.
• 29:26
  My flat's been exactly the same it's awesome and I remember when they showed me round and they they've like a couple of them as friends before but all of them have become like family it's so special but it's the same thing they're like we take up space in the kitchen bathroom in the fridge.
• 29:40
  We have a bigger room because it's yeah exactly so I really love that I also think I would like to see more of this and I hope the world's moving more towards this way but like friends becoming a village and being more of a community and like all living either really close together and like.
• 29:59
  Steering things like not like living on a commune but like oh hey I'm kind of into it like I would consider it.
• 30:07
  I'm into it and for my friends I at least buy a piece of land and like have gardens and you know share like child care and things like that I'm so down for it and so I and I do think we're seeing a bit of a shift towards that but I don't know if that's just my wishful thinking because.
• 30:25
  I'm a single girl in the world I want my friends bad forever even I did a book launch in London and the street that we did it on I can't remember the name was I think was like the biggest number of women owned and ended businesses on a street in London and the bookstore I was like to me.
• 30:43
  We just like go and drop our kids to each other stores when we've got meetings and busy things and we drop each other lunches and it was just like even that is a bit a bit more of a move towards communal living which is at least like prioritizing sort of monogamous couple and more like community I love that I love that and I also think that.
• 31:04
  There's such a is so interesting because this would have been like twenty nineteen maybe even twenty eighteen I quit my job at Sony music and Sydney and I bought a one my ticket to Mexico with one of my best friends and we were making content and traveling and like it was so epic mainly because I just didn't want to be just getting drunk and going hostels I was like there's got to be a purpose to this like a higher reason and learning behind it I don't just want to be getting drunk and the point to the story is that I we landed ourselves at a proper commune and called.
• 31:34
  And we lived in the space for like six weeks where you know like in this honest sounds so so happy because it was as an everyone saw in nude in the ocean everyone cooking together but I didn't like necessarily that element of it you know I love the idea of communal living but not in the traditional like super super happy sense and so I think that the overarching shift or awareness towards more communal living has changed that it's not like.
• 32:02
  out their undrammed hair and platters to live in this area.
• 32:05
  It's like proper, enjoyable, it's a different, it's like almost a different take on the classic
• 32:13
  monogamous nuclear family with a hybrid of that living.
• 32:20
  I think when you say communal living people instantly think of like tree hugging barefoot
• 32:25
  wearing, I don't believe in deodorant type approach whereas actually, and by the way,
• 32:31
  I'm all for that, it's more just that for me, because I've really prioritised career
• 32:37
  and business and stuff like, I don't want to be living on the land with zero income
• 32:41
  or with zero, it's like a hybrid smashing together of the capitalist society and the extreme
• 32:48
  commune living and more of finding out that middle ground looks like, which I'm totally
• 32:52
  here for.
• 32:53
  It's like you actually know your neighbours and they're probably your friends and if you
• 32:57
  need sugar like you can actually go and get it from them, that kind of stuff where you
• 33:02
  feel less alone in the world and also you share the burdens, more so that we all run around
• 33:07
  barefoot.
• 33:08
  I mean like, look, again I like tofu so I feel like I'm actually thinking something I didn't
• 33:17
  like to eat.
• 33:18
  I know and even when I talk about running around barefoot I'm like, I'd be keen to do that
• 33:22
  so it's like, I'm actually not, I'm not trying to like shit all over the idea of a
• 33:27
  big community.
• 33:28
  I think there's actually real pros and it's more just when I went to the Costa Rica one
• 33:32
  where they weren't my mates, I really realise like that is the bridging thing here is that
• 33:36
  I want to choose who's in my commune, not just stumble upon one and decide to move in,
• 33:43
  you know?
• 33:44
  What would you say have been your biggest financial challenges that you have faced as a young
• 33:49
  independent building a career outside of that traditional structure?
• 33:53
  I think the challenges has more been in the understanding of like, first of all having
• 33:59
  to learn about investment and equity on my own sort of in a rush because people were
• 34:05
  throwing things at me that was something I never learned at school or never didn't take
• 34:10
  it at uni, never seemed interesting to me and then suddenly I was like, holy shit,
• 34:13
  I'm a business owner, I need to learn it.
• 34:16
  There and then also how sort of complex things like investing or how like almost gendered
• 34:21
  and how like manly it all felt and luckily my gentle, lovely older brother like sat me
• 34:27
  down and taught me how to use she as his and was basically like, hey, like you've got
• 34:32
  this much money, you should put it in these two things and then just like watch it and
• 34:35
  learn.
• 34:36
  So I had someone sort of taught me through that but without him and they like, being
• 34:40
  like, Nick, I really need to understand this, how can it like, I just, I think it would
• 34:44
  have been really hard, I've always been really like frugal and it's because the other big
• 34:50
  fear I have is like, oh, all of this could go away within the next year and watching
• 34:55
  the media industry, particularly in New Zealand as it is, it's a real fear and like not,
• 35:01
  it's not sound doom and gloom but it's like, sometimes it feels like the end is near
• 35:07
  and so I sit starting to secure about have run a very lean machine and I have never
• 35:16
  wanted to scale up in terms of employees or like even equipment and stuff really for
• 35:21
  the sake of it, I just buy things when I need them, I don't spend money on stupid shit
• 35:25
  because and I don't pay myself a shit ton of money either, like I have money in the
• 35:30
  bank but I'd rather have that sitting there so I could see the business for the next
• 35:33
  five years than have that all in my bank account like for what, you know, but because it's
• 35:38
  me and it's just me and I pay my contractors and things like that and it's quite easy
• 35:46
  for me to budget because I can happily go without so the business can go with, that's just
• 35:52
  how I was brought up as well, I wasn't brought up with like a shit ton of money and you
• 35:55
  know, my parents didn't like and rest in my business or whatever, it was just like I
• 35:59
  was a nanny and then I was a fucking waitress and then I couldn't get a job in Auckland
• 36:04
  so I just did all these random jobs while I was doing shit you should care about so it's
• 36:08
  the understanding of the finances that's been more difficult than actually the money I
• 36:14
  think.
• 36:15
  Well I think also the way that you speak about social issues and news and all of that
• 36:20
  is really similar in a way to what we've done with the curb with trying to make financial
• 36:25
  conversations more encouraging, more exciting, more interesting, more funny, like bringing
• 36:32
  humour to it, there's, you know, there's a lot of people who probably never thought they
• 36:37
  cared about the stuff that you talk about until they saw it presented in the way that
• 36:41
  you presented and I think the same could be said for the curve with money and business
• 36:46
  because I was the same, I was like didn't do business studies at school, never thought
• 36:51
  I would be owning a business, never thought I was interested in that, didn't know what
• 36:54
  the fuck equity was, you know, I didn't have any of those basics and I think that I too
• 36:59
  was kind of forced into learning it and then when I realised it was actually so much easier
• 37:03
  than I thought, like so much easier, it was just the realisation that the way in which
• 37:10
  it had been presented to me in a very masculine traditional way through Wall Street Journal
• 37:15
  for so long was just not how I enjoy or am interested in like now I genuinely find hearing
• 37:22
  about what's happening with big businesses, more interesting than a reality TV show, but
• 37:26
  it's just that I never saw it in that way because traditional media was not built for those
• 37:33
  conversations. Yeah and I've always believed that things like money and things like remember
• 37:40
  when like Web 3 and things like that were popping up and even AI, I really do have a theory
• 37:48
  that these topics are kept mystified, like mystified on purpose, they're gay kept from women
• 37:56
  and they're gay kept from people that can't pay to get the education to understand them
• 38:02
  so that it's just this sort of almost like one layer of society that gets to understand them
• 38:08
  and benefit from the stock market and things like that and yeah they used to be kept
• 38:13
  kept from women and now it's kept from people that can't afford it and if you can't afford a
• 38:18
  pay wall to understand that article that's going to tell you about what's to invest in like you're
• 38:23
  just on the back foot and like undereducated people and I just yeah I think they're mystifying
• 38:29
  for a reason that's not a hot take but it was something that when I started doing shit you
• 38:34
  should care about and trying to make sense of these complex things and then sometimes I'd realise
• 38:38
  it wasn't that hard but also because I had a uni degree and seven dollars to pay the New York
• 38:43
  Times or whatever I could learn it yeah that's when I started being like bro these things have
• 38:48
  been kept from us for a reason like people are using these big words so that we don't understand
• 38:53
  sometimes. A hundred percent I could not agree more I think money is the absolute epitome of that
• 38:59
  and it's because there's a shit load of money to be made out of people not understanding
• 39:05
  and people being scared to just have to pay for their thing. I mean it's true in literally every
• 39:09
  single industry I even like as a weird example like when we were looking into how could we give
• 39:15
  equity to the people who work with and for us because and like this is called options and you know
• 39:21
  and like I remember talking to the sky who was trying to explain it to me and honestly it was
• 39:26
  comical like I was just cracking up at how outrageous he was making it sound and how complex and
• 39:31
  I just kept asking stupid question I've just stupid question because I knew that I had
• 39:35
  every right to but there's a lot of people that don't feel comfortable asking the stupid question
• 39:40
  so everyone stays in the dark and it's like yeah it's it's unfortunate and actually that's why
• 39:45
  platforms like shit you should care about is so fucking important. The Curve Investing Club is the
• 39:50
  world's first digital investing club for women to build their wealth it's a place where industry
• 39:55
  experts like myself and beginners can really really join forces to share knowledge swap ideas
• 40:01
  and make money through investing so if you're listening to this podcast you probably are aware
• 40:06
  that saving alone unfortunately can't make your millionaire but investing definitely could so we
• 40:12
  wholeheartedly believe in the power of community in that the best investment ideas come when we
• 40:18
  collaborate and learn with each other so bring your friends your mum even strangers on the street if
• 40:24
  you want there really is strength in numbers and we're so excited to create a community that's
• 40:30
  just for you. I would love to ask you a question specifically around feminism because you mentioned
• 40:36
  that in terms of it's you know it's not a hot take but I still think that it is feminism or
• 40:41
  equality is not just about earning capacities or equal parts about like economic independence and
• 40:47
  not feeling like you need to be attached to the hip of a man in a heteronormative sense to be you
• 40:54
  know financially independent. When it comes to like the freedom to say no to that traditional
• 41:01
  what it looks like but if you learned that has given you more confidence to stand on your own
• 41:05
  two feet and think I can have economic independence and whatever way I decide that is for for my life
• 41:12
  would have been the things that have really empowered you to feel like. Let you mention before
• 41:17
  it was your brother sitting down with you and saying don't put your money in this account or try
• 41:21
  and do this like what have been some of the most obvious or easy unlocks that for you have given
• 41:25
  you the confidence to know I don't need to be in a traditional relationship to be financially
• 41:32
  when I was 20 or 20 my parents separated and everything's fine they're good friends my
• 41:42
  families which are but my mum had been the stay at home mum for four kids for like 25 years right
• 41:52
  she met my dad when that which was 19 they had kids in her early 20s her whole life had been
• 41:59
  raising us which is I mean they did a fucking good job with great kids and that is unpaid work
• 42:06
  that woman do and then when her and my dad split up she had to basically rebuild her life from
• 42:12
  scratch and she went out and she bought like a little house with I think obviously they devied up
• 42:20
  some things that they had together and with that she was sort of smart about it and I remember
• 42:24
  watching her being like how the fuck do you know how to buy a house and like how do you know and
• 42:28
  she would be like oh and I've put some money in like this investment thing and I'd be like how
• 42:33
  do you know how to do that and then she went and got like a job at a rest time and just like
• 42:38
  started building her life up independently and now she's since like sold her first small house
• 42:43
  and lives in like a beautiful home that she loves and she could do that all on her own after
• 42:49
  feeling like she hadn't done anything except for raise us for years and years and years
• 42:54
  which by the way would be absolutely terrifying yeah so scary so scary and she's just like
• 43:02
  took it on the churn and then built this life that it's like a really good life and and I
• 43:08
  remember her because now I am like to have some other five I want to buy a house what the hell do I
• 43:14
  do blah blah blah and she's like oh my god I didn't know what to do you just go to the bank and
• 43:17
  you ask every single question like under the sun and so I think they're just doing that not even
• 43:23
  should they make a lesson out of it or anything I just sort of watched from uni being like how the
• 43:27
  house mom doing all this and making me feel like oh my god okay it's not that deep it's not that
• 43:32
  scary even if you even if you've been out of work for like years and years and years so I think
• 43:39
  watching her do that sort of like subconsciously make me be like why the hell would I wait around
• 43:45
  a relationship to sort of want things like that and then also I grew up with Tumblr and Twitter
• 43:51
  and like the internet that I think just always and in the circles that always told woman they
• 43:56
  could I never really and my brothers have always been really supportive like I just grew up with
• 44:02
  really good brothers that aren't that would never be like I should make more money than you because
• 44:07
  I'm a dude or like well of course I should be a CEO one time I did my dad did tell me
• 44:14
  oh Lucy do you know what you'd be a really good executive assistant like that's what you should
• 44:20
  do for a job and I have been like what the fuck are we doing and my mom was like Joe what are you
• 44:26
  doing telling us you'll be an executive assistant first of all no why I'm not organized like that
• 44:31
  but I mean that's like a funny thing that we bring up all the time now but I think just like
• 44:35
  I was never told that I couldn't as like the long and short of it which I'm really lucky and then
• 44:40
  the circles I found for myself never told me I couldn't and also I'm just not that interested in
• 44:45
  being in a relationship so I love that for me love that for you love that for me I just think also
• 44:51
  it's like what's not spoken about is the underbelly of all those things you know like we have so much
• 44:58
  freedom to do and choose and spend our time in the way that we like we also can have our own
• 45:03
  financial independence regardless of our relationship and one thing that I feel super super grateful for
• 45:09
  is that I decided well I didn't even decide I fell into this right I'm single in 33 and I am in
• 45:16
  a position where if I had then joined forces with somebody it would be in a very different way
• 45:20
  if we'd met at 18 and been you know attaches and attached financially from that point onwards
• 45:26
  and so I feel very grateful and lucky to be in a position where you know not by choice but have
• 45:33
  been forced into financial independence now rather than at 55 because the relationships broken down
• 45:41
  like because it's what I've always known it's how I will continue to live my life and I think for
• 45:46
  me a massive you know because I've learnt all the things that we've talked about that are so easy
• 45:50
  to learn how to invest your money or be better with your money I can then pass that on if I ever have
• 45:55
  kids one day rather than that those kids growing up in the same kind of like I have no idea what's
• 46:00
  going on because what they see is too financially independent people rather than just one and the other
• 46:06
  following and I think that that's a I don't know that's something that I feel inadvertently
• 46:11
  grateful for yeah and I think you and I and probably a lot of women is probably becoming more common
• 46:16
  feel more safe being financially independent than we would if we had our money tied to someone
• 46:23
  else whereas when I was growing up and differently like before this duration you would have felt more
• 46:29
  safe having your money with someone else at having two incomes but I feel way more safe that it's
• 46:34
  like online and it's my decision and if it goes it's my fault and if it comes it's my doing I just
• 46:43
  that makes me feel more secure than if I was you know having a double income I think I also think
• 46:49
  in a weird way it probably will take a lot of the pressure off in a relationship right because
• 46:53
  it's like no one's in it for that you're actually in it because that other person's adding value
• 46:58
  above and beyond financial value totally if you were to give one piece of I know we're not
• 47:05
  neither are so financial advisors but one piece of financial advice just in a friendly older
• 47:09
  sister type way would be one thing you'd be like definitely do XYZ even if it's as simple as like
• 47:16
  make sure you have enough in your bank account for like it can be something really trivial
• 47:21
  set up an automatic payment to your if you have a Shia's account here she has these accounts even
• 47:29
  if it's like ten dollars and then in that account make it auto invest things for you so you don't
• 47:35
  even have to think about it but you know you're being a little bit smart every week with your money
• 47:39
  I reckon that's a game change of the automation oh my god because for a forgetful queen like me
• 47:45
  same yeah it just makes you feel like oh my god I'll look at it in a years time and it's like oh
• 47:51
  well there's five hundred dollars there from the year or something like that so use the tools
• 47:56
  that are there to help you and then you don't have to think about it I love that thank you so much
• 48:00
  it was such a pleasure to meet you speak to you I feel like I you're lucky there's a time limit
• 48:07
  on this interview because it would have been one of those things that you would have been like
• 48:11
  I need the toilet I need to leave me alone like I had so many things I want to talk to you about but
• 48:15
  yeah thank you so much it was just such a pleasure and I can't wait to see you as a little
• 48:20
  isolated asset just grow more and more and more valuable I can't wait to see maybe in my own
• 48:25
  river yeah on my commune come I feel you move then if you could let me know where you're buying land
• 48:31
  that would be really great let's keep in touch about that okay no it's been great thank you
• 48:37
  so much for having me I've locked an already brand thought of this podcast saying actually
• 48:42
  it's really cool when people leave comments underneath the podcast episode because I must say
• 48:48
  when people send us DMs on Instagram I sometimes forget what it's about or like what they're talking
• 48:52
  about and like imagine if we were doing shit episode after shitty episodes for over 200 episodes
• 49:00
  and we had no idea I mean I don't know if we would have got to 200 episodes
• 49:05
  of shit it's like someone not telling you up food in your teeth like please can you help us out
• 49:09
  here tell us what you like what you don't like what you don't really look hot yeah you want to know
• 49:13
  it's a good episode too so if you're listening wherever you're listening and you have a thought
• 49:18
  on something we've spoken about or a question or comment please do leave it on whatever platform
• 49:23
  you're listening on it also really helps us from an algorithm perspective like for more people
• 49:27
  to find the podcast yes which we want to educate more and more women about the fun and beauty
• 49:34
  that is fine it's an investing you know if anyone's either said fun and beauty talking about fun
• 49:39
  is everything but I'm here for it yeah