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Chartered Financial Planner & Company Director at 24 · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: And today's guest is James Rivers.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: James is a chartered financial planner.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: He's also director of his own financial planning company, Lane Financial Management.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: We talk about his career today.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: He's a younger advisor, he's 24 years old, and he's chartered.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: He actually did his level four qualifications alongside a finance degree.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: He even found time to do a year placement within a financial planning business.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Now that's rare as rocking horse poo-poo to find.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: So we talk about how he managed to get that placement and what you can do to help secure a placement yourself.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, he progressed on to becoming chartered by the age of 24.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: He's now delivering full financial planning advice, and we talk about his career today, what it's like being a younger financial planner, and what the future holds for him.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's a fantastic episode.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: I love talking to the younger generation.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, not bad.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yourself?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm alright.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: As I said to you, just got over gastroenteritis, uh, which completely wiped me out physically and mentally.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like the impact it had on my mental health for like four days afterwards was incredible.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose that whole brain gut axes, you know, gut microbiome, and you read all about that, don't you?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: About how important it is to keep that gut microbiome in order because it makes it has a massive impact on your mental health.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I suppose spending four or five days uh excreting everything you've got in your stomach, it's it's had a negative effect on me.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: So being able to sit there and kind of recognise that again was really important.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it's made me really aware about making sure I'm putting the right food in my body, for instance, getting the right amount of sleep and rest and all that type of stuff.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: So lots of positives have come from being sick.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: Sitting on my deathbed, I've I've I've thought about a lot of things and I'm making some really good changes.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes we sit there and we we we feel sorry for ourselves, or we can sit there and we can we can reflect a bit and and make some changes.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because how often do you sometimes get the chance to just sit, you know, and and and and ponder?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of yeah, that's me at the moment, mate.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: H how about you?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on in your world?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's what we sort of chatting about just before, is uh I've been in Mykin off for the last week, almost the opposite end of the spectrum.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've uh been stuffing my face with food and alcohol doing all the all the healthy things, really.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um not quite as bad as you, but equally it's the time where you get to think and reflect, isn't it?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: On holiday, or when you're real.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a similar situation.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you go on holiday?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Mykonos.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Mykonos, yeah, striking one of the Greek islands.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Mykonos is nice, isn't it?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: I really I love Greece actually.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Some of those beautiful little islands are amazing.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I must get out to Greece more.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: It is beautiful, and the food is amazing as well.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Especially when you go to those islands that are kind of off the tourist track and they're like proper old traditional Greek islands, and you just realise just how beautiful it is, and also how kind of like nice the people are in Greece as well.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I imagine some of those tourist areas, they probably get fed up with like the Brits abroad and everyone going over and sort of desecrating the area, but those kind of untouched little islands are often really beautiful.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Mykonos is beautiful, apparently, though.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've never been there.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Really nice.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's all it's almost like Mum and Mia, white cobbled buildings, but it's always just beautiful, really.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Fantastic, good.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: You had a good time.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, listen, James, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm really super excited about talking to you because you're somebody who's really put your mind to it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: You've really put lots of energy and lots of effort in becoming a financial planner.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Not just um thinking about it, right?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: But putting your energy into your effort into going through the full qualifications all the way up to chartered and getting yourself out there working in firms at a very young age, you very quickly established that you wanted to be an advisor.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, you're quite an anomaly as well, because the average age of an advisor is 55 years old, right, in the UK.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: We need more younger people coming into the profession.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: So your journey, I think, will inspire those listeners that are thinking perhaps about the profession, how to get into it, and what route to go down, and understanding where they fit within the profession, what role, how to get into it, and also like talking, I want to talk to you about confidence, about confidence in the role and you know what it takes to be a younger financial advisor, and what types of things do you go up against internally or externally from others to make you feel comfortable that you are more than capable of doing the job of a financial planner.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: So really excited to talk to you.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: Can you just first off sort of give me an overview of how you first came about understanding the role of a financial planner, financial planning as a profession, and why you chose it?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so originally I I never wanted to be a financial planner.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up my whole childhood going, I want to be an RAF pilot.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Everything was aimed up to being an RAF pilot up until I reached um sort of sixth form.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I've done everything, everything was geared up to doing that.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then my my father is a financial planner, um, and I I kind of took a second second view and kind of went, actually, do I really want to be told what I'm doing when I'm doing it, or do I want to be able to live my life the way I want to live it?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And realize that actually I don't want to pursue a career in being a being a pilot.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I could do that later on in life in a in a sort of private capacity.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I kind of my father kind of said, Look, financial planning, great career, um, very rewarding.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and obviously I've I've just kind of experienced that growing up as his son.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: I could see the benefits of the industry.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he gave me a bit of guidance and said, How about you know you go off um study finance at uni, which is what I went to to go on and do.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I started doing my diploma at university alongside that to gear me up to join the firm.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um the plan was never for him for me to come in and join.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was his business partner was retiring.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the timing worked out perfectly.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I, when I come and graduate, and hopefully it would have done my diploma at the same time, I'll be able to then join the firm and replace his uh business partner at the time.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of how I got into the industry via him, really.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: So lucky enough to have a father who'd already trodden the path of what it takes to become a financial planner.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: And was your dad sort of runs his own business then?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he he bought the business out about uh a couple of years ago.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: But he's been at the firm for sort of 20, 20 years or so.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, he was one of the one of the directors there and managing it with David, um, who's yeah, who's left now.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so he's obviously purchased the firm and it's yeah, just us guys now.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's fantastic.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: So you and your dad must have a good relationship then.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: So you have a good relationship with your dad.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: Your dad's sort of educated you around what the career of a financial planner is from a place of knowing because he's done the job himself, but also having that sort of foresight and recognition about succession planning.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's one of the benefits as well of financial planning, right?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: And building a business is that the financial planning profession, if you end up running your own company and building an asset, that itself can either be sold.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: So if you build a business you can sell that business on, and you know, it's not unusual for people to get anywhere between three to five times the levels of recurring income in a financial planning business when they exit the profession.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: And there's some of those big VC fund, you know, people out there at the moment that are paying considerably more for it, a good quality financial advice business.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one thing definitely to consider is that when you build that financial planning practice, you are building an asset that's that's that's um this this big creating value.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: One of the other aspects of it is the ability to pass it down through generations.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: So it is a it is something that can be inherited, isn't it?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's something that can also be passed down to a family member.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: And your dad must feel very proud to be able to build something that he can then pass down to his son and help his son on a career path and be financially secure and sort of inherit the hard work that he's done to build something, he can then pass that on.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: But within the succession plan, still benefit from an exit of a sale, if you like, through through the recurring income being passed over and him taking a percentage of recurring income whilst that eventually gets passed over.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And from that perspective, also, I guess where it's that father-son relationship, as well as colleagues, we we like to separate them that relationship quite a lot.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's carwork that at home sort of thing.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you really separate that relationship.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: But equally, by having that that father-son relationship, there's a lot of uh you have a lot of flexibility in the sale arrangement or the succession arrangement, right?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have to do buy them out in installments or a lump sum, or do you pay them out of your income?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or it there's lots of different ways you can structure the actual eventual set.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it makes it a bit easier knowing that the person as a as a family member also, I'd imagine.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well I think it's amazing is you're having these conversations about acquisition, essentially, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Succession planning of a business, becoming a business owner in your own right at 24 years old, you're having those conversations, you're having that exposure already.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Some of these conversations, this exposure, doesn't happen to people in the profession until probably they're more in their 30s or 40s.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: 30s, probably if they're lucky.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: 40s usually because it takes time for some people to build confidence up in progressing through the career plan, if you like, of being a financial planner.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like you might start off as an administrator power planner, you might move into financial advice, but you might spend fair few years in an employed role within financial planning to build that confidence up, to build those client banks up.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you might then all of a sudden have an entrepreneurial itch in the back of your mind that says, now I want to run my business, and then you start from scratch.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: So lots of people don't really get exposed to these types of opportunities like you have.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: So you're incredibly lucky, but at the same time, you make your own luck.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: You're obviously a hard-working individual.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just step back here.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: You went to university.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Whilst you were at university, you were doing your diploma in financial advice.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: So you're studying finance, you're doing your diploma in financial advice, but you also took on a year of working for a financial planning company as a financial analyst whilst doing the studying for your exams around your diploma and your degree, right?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll be yeah, it was it was a lot to to balance and juggle at the time.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but let's just talk about it.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's talk about that.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's like let's how did you manage your time and and balance it all?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: And do you think it was a you've obviously said it's worth it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Was it stressful?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: Was it was it was it like, you know, what what had you you've obviously did it and it can be done, and I applaud you on that, but I want to know what it was like to go through that.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: Would you advise somebody else doing it who's equally, say, really super keen to become a financial planner?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so yeah, first place, it was a lot of work, and obviously to do a lot of work, you need to be very regimented with your time.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And ask any of my good friends from uni, whatever, they'd be like, How well on earth is he so regimented?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'd I'd get up at six before I'll start my day, I'd study two hours of I don't know, just RO2, RO three, or whatever it was at the time, to then start my day at sort of eight o'clock, um, to then go to my lectures and then study obviously finance, so finance-related modules, um, then come home and go to the pub, go out for the evening and or whatever, or come back and study and make notes from previous lectures or whatever.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it was really, yeah, it was a difficult balance to get the right, right amount of uh anything, isn't it?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's everything's a fine balance.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to enjoy university, but equally I wanted to make sure that when I come out that I've actually got a good, good degree um and that I'm qualified and can pursue the career that I want.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, there was a lot of hard work and a lot of sacrifice, I would say.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to, yeah, in order to do that, you have to be very regimented with your with your time.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: So whilst whilst doing your degree, you're obviously going to lectures, and that the idea of that is that you pay your money to be able to be lectured and it helps you absorb the information.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: So when it comes to passing your exams, hopefully someone's taught you how to do that, right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Now, when when it comes to getting your qualifications, did you go down the RO route, did you?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've done the uh the the diploma regulated financial planning with the CII.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: R01 to R06, right?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: So you did you chose to do that?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now I've seen those books.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: They're like a great big chunky book that gets delivered to you, and it in all honesty is quite overwhelming, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: So what did you do to be able to digest that information?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: Did you get help from training companies?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Did you have a mentor?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Did you what was your approach to the actual study?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is it might be the most old school approach.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was genuinely just waking up at six, opening the book, making notes, reading it.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'd I'd have a process.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'll read the book once without making any notes.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'd go back and read the book again, make notes on the bits that I think are relevant, and then a case of just booking in the exam and doing it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was genuinely the process.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but not any training providers, any uh as I got into the advanced qualifications post-uni, I I looked at going on day courses and bits and bobs.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: But the actual early days uh was just a case of waking up and just reading and making notes and doing it.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: But what I did find useful is I would tie in the module that I was studying alongside what I was doing with my degree.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we'd do a financial management uh module um in in my second year, which is all about like present value, time value of money, um working out expected returns on investments, all this sort of fun stuff that um but that was very similar to RO2.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I could tie that in together.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then in my final year of uni, I was there's a taxation, advanced taxation module, which is all about income tax, IHT, CGT.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, great, RO3 is all about that.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you could tie in the modules to what I was learning.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it would almost be reinforcing my studies for university at the same time whilst in reinforcing and enhancing my studies for for the diploma.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it would actually be a win-win situation where I could yeah, put a lot of effort in and make sure that both areas of study are going well, if that makes sense.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like stacking study, isn't it?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: So you you hear about like habit, it's like habit stacking.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you're in there learning about the on the learning about what you need to learn about on the finance side, but you've been quite strategic in respect to the modules you're then looking at underneath the RO exams and trying to marry the two together.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: So you're kind of killing two birds with one stone.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um did you pass all those RO qualifications whilst you were at university?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I would have done.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'd done RO2 first, and that was in probably in 2018, I think.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that yeah, that would have been in my second year, first year of union, I believe.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so all of them would have done were done at university.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: RRO six, which was in I graduated in the uh June and I passed RO6 in the in the October or November, I think.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: But so so how many years did it take you to get your level four diploma?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think it would have been just over two years, I think.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Just over two years, which is you know, I think running that alongside a degree is is is um totally like acceptable.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's that's quite incredible.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Can I ask you a question, though, right?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you've you've obviously you you chose the finance degree.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: When you chose that degree, did you also had you already made the decision that you wanted to become a financial planner?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say no.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think my my father said, look, financial services in general, no matter where you go, it's pretty much a guaranteed job.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it's you and finance is an industry that's always gonna be there.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you go and do finance, you could go, you could be a fund manager, you can go and specialise in um material side of things if you want, or wherever you want to take it, at least that way you're you're in an in in an industry that you can go anywhere with it almost, and it opens up a lot of doors and there's a lot of transferable skills um from that degree, even if you don't pursue a finance career.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a good solid uh degree, I think.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But then as I progressed through university and as uh David, his business partner at the time was saying, Look, I'm gonna exit, then it just married up and he said, Oh, well, how about you consider coming to join us after after you graduate?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's when I really started going, okay, how can I do that?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So what exams would I need to do?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, how how do I need to um what what steps do I need to take to get to being in the firm when I graduate?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Look, start your exams now, and I and I did.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think those conversations you had with a business owner who then could educate you on what the role of a financial planner is from a place of knowing, it was really handy, obviously, that you had your dad and he could kind of reinforce what the career realistically is like and what to expect from it.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think when you're in university, not speaking from experience, because I never went to uni, but if I was in university and I had somebody that was feeding into me the realities of what a career looks like within a certain pathway, and also placed in front of me an opportunity to join that firm.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's a big incentive.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, definitely, definitely.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: It really made getting up in the morning a lot easier knowing that I'm taking a step almost into a guaranteed position.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, it's not you know, you're not you're not walking in into the darkness going, oh I hope that if I do this, I'll get this.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was pretty much guaranteed that that position, assuming that obviously I've done my exams and you know, he knows me as an individual, so he knows what uh my skill set is and personable and and the soft side of stuff, you know, that's what matters.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good with people, I can have hold a conversation, I'm personable, polite, sort of these are characteristics that uh make a good sort of charted financial well, just a financial planner in general.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you need to be good with people and have those soft skills.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's all great having the knowledge, don't get me wrong.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can't manage a relationship, then if you're probably in the wrong job, I don't, I don't know.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's just my opinion.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm I'm I'm with you on it.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think you you could be technically brilliant, right?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: But massively, but lack social skills, lack relationship skills, um and lack huge confidence around that.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: And there's plenty of people that I know that are in the financial planning profession that went down the route of securing as high grade qualification as they possibly can, but hugely lack the confidence to sit in front of individuals and build relationships, or do the hard part of going out and winning those new relationships through business development and essentially cold the cold approach to winning a client base and building a client base.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a tough job, you know, and you have to have a certain skill set and resilience to be able to go out, take knockbacks, try things, have the confidence to offer your services, ask to do some talks that can't, you know, whether it's talks within companies about employee benefits or or or pension plans to get yourself out there, and you kind of have to kiss a lot of frogs to find that prince, and you're not going to win every single time that you do it.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: So the resilience and the ability to kind of get over knockbacks and to understand that every no gets you closer to a yes and builds your confidence and builds your resilience and builds your knowledge is part of the journey and part of the process.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And somebody sometimes that's highly technical or highly process driven would find that hugely difficult from a personality perspective to understand that you have to kind of put yourself out there in that way and that you have to fail and you have to feel what it's like to not win to win, you know?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you're right there, and your personality already shines through as somebody that's personable, somebody that can hold a conversation, and that's hugely, hugely important when it comes to becoming the client-facing financial advisor.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think everybody's got that.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's a skill set you're either born with or you have to work hard to learn, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: You have to you can learn it, yeah, but you've got to work a bit harder to learn it, you know.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: We talked earlier about organizational skills.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: I lack organizational skills, so I have to work really hard on that.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I don't lack the ability to build relationships.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: It comes incredibly naturally to me.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that you did as well, obviously, you went to university, you done your finance um qualification degree there.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: You started doing your level four qualifications.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't realise until you were doing your finance degree a hundred percent that you wanted to be that financial advisor.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: Let me pose a hypothetical question to you.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: If you knew that you wanted to be a financial planner at the age of, say, 18 or 19, would you have not gone to university and done the finance degree?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: And would you have just got your head down and done your diploma instead?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I thought about this quite a lot, actually, reflecting back on life.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Would I have done things differently?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I wouldn't.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think there is no right way of every it's a personal journey for individuals.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think my view was one, if um I'm gonna be a young advisor, okay.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've decided I'm gonna now be an advisor, that's what I want to do.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be young.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I need to therefore show clients not only am I personable and trustworthy, but I need to show them that I'm well qualified and I know what I'm talking about.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: One way of doing that is obviously through qualifications and having a first class degree in finance helped with that, as well as then having the diploma on top of that, obviously, to make me authorised.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I thought that it would give me a good um grounding and a good base that I can then then build on by having those sort of letters after your name, in all honesty.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Equally, I wanted the the life experience of going away from home, and I, you know, I was 18 years old.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I'll I was young and I just want to leave home and go.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And party and have some fun and all of that sort of stuff as well.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and equally, if I if everything didn't work out as me being an advisor, I've got a a relevant business degree that I could go pretty much anywhere with if I decided to, be that going down a the accountancy route or an anything, everything comes back to finance and business at the end of the day.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, I thought there would be a solid degree with lots of uh career opportunities, and uh equally if things did go well and I wanted and I decided to be an advisor, then I that's just it's it's just it's only gonna benefit me there.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: With the finance degree, do you so if someone's aspiring to become a finance someone, let's say someone's listening to this podcast and they're thinking about going to university and they are thinking about also listening to the podcast, thinking about well, what does a financial advisor do?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that's a good career for me.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Going through the finance degree that you did and doing your level four qualifications, do you think the finance degree was is the best degree that you could have done to benefit a career in financial planning, or do you would you have maybe considered other degrees that would maybe have given you a different perspective on your uh learning or um skill set?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I think there's probably three degrees that I'd say if if you know that you want to go into financial planning and you're considering going to university, and I'd say finance degree, economics degree, or if the universities offer them, and I think there's only a few in the country that do, unfortunately, uh a financial planning degree.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and unfortunately, yeah, I think I can't remember what you I think Manchester might do one or whatever, but there's not many universities that offer a purely a financial planning degree, and unfortunately, um no one's shouting about the industry, no one really knows it's an option.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so unless you know someone in the industry or you stumble into it, you're not gonna get all these graduates going, Oh, I want to be a financial advisor.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you get lots of uh graduates going to study finance knowing they want to be an accountant or they want to go into sort of corporate law and do a master's in law or whatever, or they want to go into law.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but no one goes, I want to be a financial planner or a financial advisor.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, it's one way I think we could get across or get over that hurdle is maybe if there were a few more financial planning degrees or a bit more people shouting about it.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's a really valid point, and I think the universities bringing in these financial planning degrees is a great start.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I love the idea of somebody taking a financial planning degree and at the end of their at the end of their education through university, they do have a route into a profession that will offer them a really secure career.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: The one the one thing that financial planning has on offer right now is the opportunity is huge.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well look at the industry, it's uh huge.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Over the next, what is it, over the next five, ten years, according to the statistic exactly?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost half of the advice population, advisor population are going to retire, hang up in their boots.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's not enough young blood coming into the industry.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So being selfish, people like me who who actually want to grow a business and succeed have such a big opportunity to do so.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And there's such a big advice gap.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's the the need for advice is always there, be it good times, bad times.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a robust industry, and that's why obviously a lot of private equity firms are now getting involved in it because you know it's recurring income, and as long as you're doing a good job and servicing your clients on an ongoing basis, then that that recurring income is either growing via investment growth over the long term or with added clients.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a it's a good solid industry to to invest in, or be in, I'd say.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it also there's a there's a purpose-led motive to it as well, because one is commercially as a financial planner, you want to be able to provide financial planning to individuals that in essence has a hugely positive effect on their well-being.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: So if somebody is going through the process of being unsure about when they can retire, do they have enough money to retire?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: What should they do with some money?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: Even simple things around like the budgeting aspect of it, debt, these are the things that can make individuals feel incredibly uncomfortable.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and financial well-being, especially now with all the hikes in interest rates, and I I've been doing loads of reading and and and loads of listening um into financial well-being and just simple things that we can do ourselves to improve our own financial well-being.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've been reading reading Peter Komalafe's book from The Conversation of Money.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: He's got one called the like this The Money Book, and that's really, really good.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm absolutely loving um uh Pete Matthews.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know Pete Matthews?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: And Mindful Money.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so he's got his own academy where he takes people through the academy and gets some kind of really thinking about money, but his podcast is like 450 episodes, it gets like four, you know, it gets like a hundred thousand downloads a month.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I had him on my podcast, and I went and started listening to his podcast, and it was so educational.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: And even from my perspective, I'm like entering lots of different stages of my life around my finances, and it's really educated me.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: And already I feel calmer knowing more about money and how it works and the bigger picture of it.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think when you people choose to become a financial planner, remember you're a building value in yourself because you're educating yourself about what money is, how it works, so therefore you're improving your own financial well-being.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: But then the passing down of that knowledge to those that don't understand it is so valuable.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I get my um the love of the job, to be honest.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what you know, there's nothing better.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, just before I went on holiday, I met with these lovely clients um who are looking to retire in February next year.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they had some loads of old policies dotted around and they didn't really know what was going on.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, wanted to know can we afford to retire?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: The answer is yes.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And went through that whole process and give of giving advice, and then it's so nice after the meeting to just send a follow-up and then get a lovely email back saying that we feel so much more um at ease and thank you very much for your help.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: We feel so much more relaxed and comfortable with our with our retirement plans.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that's what the job's about, not about oh, yeah, of course, there's a commercial and benefit of working in a financial planning practice, but it really is.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And where I get the love of the job is getting emails like that going, oh thank you for your help, or thank you.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's where the passion comes from, I'd say.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: And you can, when it comes to your own ambition and need to want to earn money, there's nothing wrong with being somebody that wants to earn money.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing wrong with having that level of ambition.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: What I love about the financial planning profession, and what I want people to understand about it as well, is that when you look online and you see the job adverts, and the job adverts say administrator, 25,000 to 30, power planner, 30, sometimes all the way up to 60,000, depending upon level experience, financial planner, 40 to 60,000.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: But those are just ballpark figures on an employee basis.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: When you go through the process and you develop yourself into a financial planner that runs his or her own business, you can earn way more money.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the opportunity to earn money self-employed is if you work hard and you have a good level of uh introduced relationships, a good client proposition, you're delivering good, sound financial advice and you're respected and you're being referred, the world is your oyster.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you touched on the fact that look, over the next five to ten years, there's there's only 27,000 advisors right now, right?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Registered financial advisors right now.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: So over the next five to 10 years, we're gonna see a good 15,000 of those leave the profession because the average age of an advisor is 55 years old.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: So they're going to be leaving that profession.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: There's going to be a massive gap, an advisor gap.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I can tell you this right now, there's not enough advisors coming into the profession to fill that gap within that period of time.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: But we're working on it.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: I've got an academy coming out soon, the Financial Advisor, uh, the Financial Planner Life Academy, where we're going to train administrators, power planners, financial advisors through the process of their qualifications and educate them around the career framework and how they can maneuver through it as quickly as they possibly can to be a huge success.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: And we're doing that with next-gen planners, which are a fantastic training company within their own right.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: You've got some academies attached to SJPs, MNGs, OpenWorks, and smaller firms and some of those younger firms are starting to invest in taking trainees on and developing them through.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: Mainly because they have to do that.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because the pool for hiring financial planners from within the profession is getting smaller and smaller.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: They're having to look at either training people who are admins, power planners into becoming advisors, or looking at second careerists, those that have built some really good life experience but want to transfer their skill sets into a new profession, or looking at training from the get-go grads, taking grads for a process of bringing them up through the ranks.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: So this idea when you close your eyes with a financial advisor, you think of somebody who's pretty much white most of the time, male, um, and usually a bit of grey hair, and like maybe they're 50 years old in a suit and tie, right?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's dying.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: That idea of the financial advisor is dying, really.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not me being ageist.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's just me being the fact that the profession is never going to be like that again because younger people are going to be coming through.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: So younger people like you have to have that confidence to say, look, I am going to get into the profession because there is an opportunity there for me to get into the profession.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because as we we've alluded to, lack of financial advisors, but an advice gap as well.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: This great transition of wealth that's happening, this inter generational wealth that's being passed down.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: So many people are going to be needing financial advice.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: So many people are going to be needing financial well-being and coaching.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: And these are the things that are being intertwined now within the financial planning profession.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just product selling, it's a whole encompassing well-being proposition.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the beautiful element of what the profession offers somebody who's thinking about getting into it.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that the opportunities are endless.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: You can be employed, you can be self-employed, you can run your own business, you can sell that business in the end.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: And the model allows someone to do that, but the market is there if you've got the energy and the patience and the time to put into it.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's huge.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's some fantastic things that are going on.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things I want to go back to is your journey didn't just stop at doing your qualifications, as in your finance degree, your level four qualifications while you were at university, but you also chose to take a bit of time and go and work in a financial planning firm as a um, what do you call that?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: You call it a financial analyst uh role as a part of my university placement year, though.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was a compulsory placement year that I had to do.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: You had to do it, yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Part of my degree, I had to go and find a placement, work there for a year, um, come back and then do my final year.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um as many, I I don't know, lots of um, I don't know, the audience here, I don't know if they've gone for university or some of or whatever it may be, if you're in that position trying to find a a financial planning placement, they're like unicorn shit.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: They don't exist, basically.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I managed to somehow stumble across this one in Stratford-upon-Avon.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, I managed to get obviously bag an interview.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh yeah, went through the process and managed to get the position and do my placement new of them, which I was yeah, very grateful for.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: You're absolutely right.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: There aren't a great deal of opportunities within financial planning firms for those placements, and perhaps that's to do with the fact that the average size of a financial planning firm in the UK is about five.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, five people within a business.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: So you can imagine some of these business owners are also advisors.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Do they have the time to take on somebody in a grad role?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I suppose my advice would be to anybody at this point, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: You found something.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: A bit of my advice might well be is target some of those larger type companies.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I do know things like Brewing Dolphin, Brewing Dolphin take people on, Evelyn Partners, St.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: James's Place, some of these larger organizations that will have a process in place to take on a number of individuals and they'll want to do that, and they're investing energy and time into those next generation of um uh interested, interested candidates that want to become advisors or at least understand how it actually works.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: You said you stumbled across it.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Look, I don't believe that.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: You seem like somebody who's quite well together and quite driven to go and get what you want.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: So talk to us about the process.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: What did you do to get out there and actually find that placement?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: How many frogs did you have to kiss before you got it?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a fair few frogs.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: So applying for university placement years, everyone's doing it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's applying to the big companies, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, because this is all big finance, um, you know, investment houses and um financial firms.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone's going for them.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: So very low likelihood of actually getting those positions.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was just applying to so many different things.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was applying to anything I could get basically.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was just a and when I do say stumble across it, I genuinely mean that.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was obviously I would have wanted a financial planning placement year if possible, but if you were to go into search field for financial planning, there wouldn't be any anything.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And our university had this placement software, uh this system they have where you go on and you can look at placements that they've sort of arranged with local companies or um firms far uh firms farther afield.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I just saw this yeah, financial planning um firm this is this is a thing.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I just yes, you can get it at a bigger level, as you say, like FJP, Brune Dolphin, um maybe for for a placement year, but at a small independent firm level, there just wasn't any because no one's got the budget for it.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: And equally it's a big risk for someone to come and work for you for a year and you put that training and money into them, and then for them to potentially go somewhere else.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I can see why they're not offered, but yeah, it was really a case of just almost uh um if you throw enough shit, some of it will stick and I it did.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I think I think the thing is as well though, is that the profession's crying out for new people, they're worried about new people not joining it, but I think a lot of these firms need to shut up whinging about it and actually put their money where their mouth is and actually put some opportunities in place for younger generation to come on in.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we so when you did that placement year, it's it was in a firm where you didn't end up working, right?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I didn't.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: So what was the agreement then between you and that company when they said, okay, come on in for an interview and we'll we'll have a chat with you about potentially some opportunities that we might have within here.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: They understood, I assume, that it was a year placement, right?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was yeah, year university placement.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I've come and work there for a year on a salary.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then at the end of that, I can either get offered a job or I I well, there's no um, it's just it's basically a fixed-term contract, really, if you view it that way.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I've yeah, that was that really.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: So they paid you like a fixed-term contract.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: So when you went in there, did you understand?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: Were you going in there with the mindset of there is a job for me here?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: They've given me a job spec and this is the job I'm applying for.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: Or were you going, I'm going in for a placement and I'm hoping they're going to create something for me.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um they have something.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I knew that I at this point I wanted to go and join my father's financial planning practice.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it was very much a case of I'm gonna work here, get some experience to the different processes and learn from different advisors and other power planners and really learn what it is actually, what is a financial plan?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: What does the day-to-day look like?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: How does a firm run?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I kind of got all that um experience there, that I could then go, okay, brilliant.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now I've come out, I can join my father's practice and implement some of the stuff I've learned from that placement.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that I think people need to fully understand, and and you said it sounds bad, it doesn't sound bad to me, right?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: You're doing a degree, you're a smart bloke, and you're doing your qualifications, your level four qualifications, right?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: And you're putting yourself out there, approaching firms, asking, can I come and work for your business?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: So you've got a solid, sound understanding of what it is that you're learning about through the qualification side.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're obviously a clever bloke.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: Put me into your business and I'll do some work for you.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: So whatever it is you want me to do, I will do the work for you.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'll exchange my time for money to do the job.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: And what I gain from you is experience.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's a transaction.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: And often when you're an employee, you feel guilty about it, some element of loyalty or guilt towards the fact that you are being uh disloyal in some way if you don't end up dedicating your life to that business.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: I want people to kind of really understand that one of the key most important things in your early financial planning career, right, is gaining experience.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Get some qualifications, right?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: To show that you are um committed to do the qual to the qualification, committed to the profession, and you've got a good understanding of it, right?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: The second stage of that is get some experience.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because when you have that experience, your candidature goes up, your marketability goes up.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you've got a couple of exams under your belt and you've got two, you know, a year's experience of even if it's an administration position, chasing up product providers, the letters of authority, or whatever it might well be, using some of the CRM systems that are in place and understanding really fundamentally the basics of what's required to actually give financial advice and all the stuff that happens in the background is a huge experience.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: So your candidature, even after three months, six months, nine months, twelve months, goes up.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: So you become way more marketable.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: Now, that company has got hold of you for a year.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: They have the opportunity to invest that energy and time in you, right?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: And they have the opportunity to offer you something further to help you progress in your career.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: You're not doing it for free, right?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and there is this exchange there.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I want people to kind of like be respectful for the opportunity that you have, but don't sell yourself out as being disloyal if you aren't if you want to move on and progress yourself up.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people historically stayed in jobs for far too long.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: I know people who stayed in admin jobs for three or four years, being promised the earth and not progressing up, or power planning jobs when they knew they wanted to be advisors.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: People spending 10 years doing that when they could have easily progressed a lot quicker, strictly through a fear of conversation perhaps internally with their employer about a development plan.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and also perhaps a fear of going outside of the norm and asking other people how to progress, what opportunities are out there, i.e.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: getting yourself out there through recruiters or getting yourself out there simply by networking with other businesses, right?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, people kind of can sit in their shit for a little bit too long.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I applaud people and tell people be the master of your own destiny and put yourself out there because as soon as you have that experience in financial planning, whatever it is, your candidature shoots up.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: So if it means going from one place to another because it's better, bloody do it.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Bloody do it because the experience, um, what study it was.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I read it, I think, in the FT some some time ago.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was they done they looked at individuals that jumped around at different firms at the early stage in their career, and the general trend was that individuals that did go between different companies at early, you know, moved every couple of years or so, had higher earnings in the long term.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And built and gone up the climb the corporate ladder, haven't they?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly that.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Not only do you get that experience of different ways of doing things and getting exposure to different advisors and processes, but you also can probably with that experience gained, um, use that as leverage to get a higher salary.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: A hundred percent.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it and it's and it's and it's a hundred percent evident in the financial planning profession.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's it's more so than ever because you are rarer's rocking horse shit as a candidate.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's a candidate poor market, therefore, it's candidate-driven.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: You are driving it, and people will want to sit down and talk to somebody who's got experience, and what they want to do is then wrap around something around you that keeps you in place.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things the financial planning profession has lacked is this ability to keep up to date with the benefits packages that are out there, flexible working, making the role actually attractive for someone to stay within a business.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: If someone stays within a business, if someone's happy, they stay within a business.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: Now, the things that make people happy within a within their job, right?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say you go in as an administrator, but if you've got a plan in front of you where it's like, look, um, you know, you're gonna start as an admin, but this is what we're gonna do.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna train you on this area.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: We've listened to the fact that you said you'd like to become a financial planner, so we're gonna put you through a bit of a program, we're gonna give you some exposure to clients, we're gonna get you down the power planning route so you know how to do that.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: And we reckon within one to three, you know, within three years, we'll get you in a trainee financial planning position.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: And this is the route.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: And alongside that, here's how your salary will go up along the way, based on you passing some exams, gaining some qualification.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: And when people have a roadmap like that and they're being supported and the companies are actually doing it, people don't leave because it's like a plan, isn't it?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's having a plan.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: People leave because they're sat and they're ambitious and they're not getting what they want from that employer.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: And historically, what employers within financial planning have tried to do is keep people in their roles because they're hard to find those people and they worry if they lose that person, then they'll have no administrator or no power planner, so therefore they won't progress them.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: But what they should be constantly doing is Having succession, having that churn and churning people through their business and training and developing staff.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: And there are firms now that are a bit younger, a bit more forward-thinking.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's their model.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: So if I'm out there looking and I'm looking at my first job within financial planning, and I'm somebody who's quite new and fresh to the market, and I've got a few qualifications under my belt, even have conversations at that stage at the interview about what does career progression look like?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because you really should have that because A, it shows that you're keen and interested.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: So that employer's thinking, this guy and girl, they want to progress, you know, but good for you and your own well-being as well.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: That if you are putting yourself into a company, then it's really important.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: That level of experience that you had for that year, uh, for that year, what what benefit was that like for you as um in respect of your career?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: Did it open doors?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: Did it did did it drop some perceptions of what the profession was like for you?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it changed, I'll I'll never forget it.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um it just it definitely changed my perception of what the job actually is and almost the difference between what the client wants to hear and know in simple terms versus how much you know.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was asked by my uh my boss at the time, he's like, Oh, can you do some investment research?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's good, it's it's the client was going to see what this research was.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I went off and I was like, alpha, beta, sharp information ratios, just all jargon that a client wouldn't have an absolute Scooby about.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I produced this to him, and his words were, and it I'll remember this forever.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: That makes me feel sick.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've gone and gone as a as a second, I'd have just done my second year at uni, so I've learned all this stuff, and it's all in my head, I'm all really excited, and I've gone and then produced this uh this document for him to read, and he just gone, that makes me feel sick.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt like I felt so just shattered, like what I thought this was really good, and then I quickly realized actually, um, yeah, it's about putting stuff in a way that clients will understand, not about showing how much knowledge you have in your head.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then that really changed the perception of what I thought the job was, and initially, because I especially because I was in a sort of a financial analyst sort of role at the firm doing investment research, um, yeah, that that was way critical.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's something it becomes that this talked about a lot on the podcast is that ability to be technically sound.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: So somebody who really knows the ins and outs of absolutely everything and almost feels like they have to have to talk about it in that way.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: Often they do not make good financial planners if they can't break that that level of thinking, if they can't create things in simple language, it's easy, easily digestible, and have the emotional intelligence also to recognize where the person sat in front of you is within their life and what concerns are of theirs, which usually revolve around you know, security, right?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: So whether it's like financial security, home security, buying a house, family, the security of your family, kids' future, um, debt, you know, worrying about money, health, connect, you know, and all those types of things.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: These are the things that people just want to feel like they're those itches, those worries and concerns that they have are being listened to.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think like the role of a financial planner is often about establishing from a psychological level who is in front of you and what what's their pain points and what's their belief, what's their beliefs.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, what are they thinking, what are they going through?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because more often than not, when you turn those stones over, and I do it in recruitment a lot, it it it's usually some form of insecurity.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: And if you can get to the root cause of what that problem actually is, you've got a client for life because they respect you, and then you could sit there and baffle them, couldn't you, with all the jargon?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: You really, really, you really, really could.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: But they aren't doing that as a job, therefore, it goes in one ear and out the other.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: They just want their problem resolved and they want to feel confident that you are a partner who is looking after them and their best interests at heart, and that then the connection happens, doesn't it?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: There's a connection, yeah.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd say it's really difficult being a young financial planner, and I I don't know this for sure, obviously, because I'm I'm not older yet and I can't see into the future, but I'd say because you're young, you need to.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's you rely on almost your technical knowledge because you haven't got the experience, you haven't got the grey hairs.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I've started to get a couple actually, but uh point that out.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um you don't have that grey hair or the wrinkles or whatever.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: So clients are initially um relying on your technical expertise and knowledge, but it's a really fine line, I think, between showing your technical ability and knowledge and putting things in a way that a client will understand, and whilst also building that level of trust at the same time.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's being that's what I've experienced so far.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's I've I've I'll be honest, I've struggled initially putting across um financial concepts in a simple way.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I'm a lot better at now.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: But when I first started, it I was, you know, you've just I've just where I've gone to university, read these books, read the diploma and all the advanced exams, it's it's very easy to regurgitate knowledge, but to actually put that across in a client uh in a simple way for a client to understand, it can be a bit more difficult.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: How do you do that?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: Do you create sort of an do you create like analogies and examples?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because analogies and examples, and just listening into um Carl's meetings, you know, listen and getting the experience and how he how he will explain a concept.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just getting exposure to different ways of and hearing different ways of explaining things that you go, oh, that's a cool way of explaining things.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even a client the other day actually said um something that I thought was we were talking about um risk and attitude to risk and uh portfolio construction and all those fun things.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Okay, so that this way it's like you're driving the BMW down the motorway instead of the Skoda.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought I said to him, That's that's a really good way of putting it simply.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's the more risky option.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is the simple, you know, less risky option.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, you know what, I'm gonna use that in the future.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it's coming coming up with little analogies that get the concept across in a simple way that can be understood.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think it, and again, it can be learned, can't it?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of the time if you're sitting next to or alongside an experienced financial planner and you get the ability to listen to how they deliver the advice, I think that's where you like in anything, that's where you pick up some amazing hints and tips and ways to do things.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because on your thinking alone, where you perhaps haven't had that experience or even the life experience relatable to what that client's gone through, to be able to listen to somebody either has or has articulated an example about what to do in that situation, but then you're you can pick up on it and it becomes part of your arsenal, doesn't it?
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it becomes part of your repertoire of how you how you present that specific client scenario.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: I like that's how I my approach was always that, right?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: One of one of my bet one of my biggest bits of advice to anybody starting out in any job or any profession is turn your head to the left and right.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Who's the best in there?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, who do you respect the most?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: Who comes across really articulate and and and and builds really strong relationships?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: Who's the most successful?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: And all I do is I I I I listen to that person and just listen to what they're doing.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: How are they doing it?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_03: And everything they're saying, use.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then put your spin on it.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Don't try and reinvent the wheel.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: If somebody in there is doing an amazing job, copy them.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: Copy, copy what they're doing.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: Let that be your grounding, your frame, and build upon that.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: So asking to go into those client meetings, asking to sit down with another advisor, perhaps reaching out to somebody who can mentor you and to give you examples of things, if you're lucky enough to have that person within the business, you know, that's so, so important for any trainee financial planner.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: And again, you know, if you're going into a trainee financial planning role, anybody listening is just to question them at interview.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what exposure am I going to get to client meetings through other financial planners in the business?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because I learn well from listening to others.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the best way, genuinely, I'd say.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: The the the most benefit I've had is listening in on other financial planners' meetings.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was one at a placement level when I was at university, as well as uh the uh where I'm working now, just listening into meetings, go, oh, that was that was good, or you know, and equally call us into my meetings now and then, and uh you can get positive feedback and always try to look at every meeting or everything I do and analyse it almost and go, okay, what was good about that?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: What could I have improved for next time?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really and a lot of financial planners I've met and who are very good do that.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: They really analyze their performance on in a meeting or whatever in general, just just in life.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: They they're just very quite they like to continuous improvement's a big thing, I think, and always learning and always trying to improve.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's definitely a core attribute for a good financial planner, I think, because every single one I've met that that has is like that.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um what's beautiful as well about a role where you're working with people is that no two days are the same, no two clients are the same.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: We're all very different as humans.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_03: We can categorize ourselves into personality traits, and you come across individuals that sometimes fit the same personality trait.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_03: You think, oh, I've dealt with this type of person before.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_03: You can't, you know, you can be picky and choosy in a job like financial planning eventually, in respect of who your clients actually are and the type of client that you want to work with.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: You might not want to work with somebody who's really bloody in loves the ins and outs of how every single investment works.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_03: You might just want to pick people that don't really have a clue in that and just trust you and respect you and um and and lean into you for kind of support and reassurance.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um so you can kind of pick and choose.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: But a bit like any uh the role of financial planning, one thing that does definitely stands out to me is that no two days are the same.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: No, you know, and and that's a lovely, isn't it?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: Going to work and knowing that not two days are the same, so you don't get bored.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_03: And the mention and the mention there about that continuous continuous improvement and continuous reflection, I think is something that you would always do throughout your career in in in really any job where no two days are the same, right?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're always reflecting and you're always learning from those successes and failures, and that's what the role itself also offers as well.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_03: You are a younger advisor.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: Was that and and now you're chartered as well, aren't you?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, chartered in the yeah, November last year.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Did you choose to go chartered because you're younger and you felt that you needed an extra qualification to stand out and gain authority, or did you do it because you just goddamn love to study?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: The primary driver, if I'm honest, is I whatever I do, I want to be the best at, and I wanted to prove to myself that you know I've I've got the best level of knowledge I can physically get, and I wasn't gonna stop until I've done that, if that makes sense.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, one from a personal perspective of just wanting to be the best at what I do, and secondly, it was uh yeah, it's only going to enhance my trust um and tech to uh to uh to clients because I'm more technically sound.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, and where I am young and yes, lack the experience, that's another string to my bow that may overcome that um with a client.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's funny because I I thought I I say that being a young advisor, uh I I may get sort of like a age prejudice or whatever.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've not actually I've experienced it once, and I've and funny enough, the client that I experienced that with was in his 40s.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: All the other clients who were in their 60s and mid-60s.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's actually the younger client that kind of made a joke about my age in a positive way, I think.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh, you're a bit more fresh in the face than I expected.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I would have expected that in my head from someone who was, I don't know, 65, 70, which I just haven't experienced.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it was almost uh like huh?
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're the one that's commenting on my age, not the 70-year-old.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's interesting.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think really when you get older, like as you get older, everyone seems younger anyway.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I think if you're in if you're like 60, 70 years old, everybody seems younger.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_03: So they're probably right there.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: And like somebody in their 40s, you're kind of in the middle and in between, and they just probably they're the ones who probably don't expect you to be younger looking, for instance, right?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: And they're and they're probably just a bit taken aback by it because they're expecting somebody like if I close my eyes and think about it and I'm 40 years old, somebody who's a bit older than me.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's I do exp I do think that in my head when I think of a financial advisor, and I don't think I'm alone in that respect.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's I think that's what we do.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: So changing that perception and building that confidence.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: What so obviously when you you must have had some element of um imposter syndrome, right?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: We hear about imposter syndrome all the time.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: Did you have you combated that now?
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and what did you do to combat that before you go into these meetings?
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_03: How how have you dealt with imposter syndrome in your career?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'd say I've definitely definitely experienced imposter syndrome in the sense of going, I'm sat in front of clients and I'm helping them make retirement decisions, yet I'm 24 years old and haven't lived half my life.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a funny concept, really, isn't it?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you're kind of going, Well, well, yes, I believe in my technical abilities and I know that I know what I'm on about, but it's it's you thinking are they thinking that he doesn't know what he's on about that almost makes you question your ability, if that makes sense.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say it's an ongoing battle.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm kind it's it's it's tricky.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm confident in what I in my abilities.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I'm um well qualified and know what I'm on about, but it's I guess everyone has a little wobble now and then and goes, Oh, I I don't know.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I would I say have I conquered that?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's an ongoing thing that probably a lot of people I think probably experience, no matter their walk of life or career, they'll probably get a big promotion and go, Oh, am I can I do it?
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe maybe you know, is this right for me?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or I don't I don't know.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh I think it's probably a an ongoing, it's not something that I'm consumed by, I wouldn't say.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's just something that it is definitely there.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I've heard a saying before along the lines of um imposter syndrome almost goes away with like experience almost, and I think you get confidence for experience, and therefore that confidence then outweighs that imposter syndrome almost, if that's if that makes sense.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think the more you do something, the more times you do something and the more times you experience the failure that you fear, yeah, the stronger you become.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's resilience.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it's having the confidence to go through with the thing that scares you, yeah, or you feel like you're being an imposter over.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if you'll feel like perhaps people won't take you seriously, then after your 20th meeting with a client who's 50 years old, for instance, yeah, you're gonna feel very differently about it.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: Because the experience that you've gained from it will teach you what the reality of that situation is, and then you get over it.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_03: So the biggest way to get over, I think, imposter syndrome, because it's all fear-based, is to face your fears, is to lean into the fear and get on with it and get stuck in.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think when people take the steps to becoming qualified, and A, personally wanting to be technically sound and know what they're talking about, and obviously doing chartered, there's a lot you learn that is adding value to the fact of the type of uh advice that you give.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: IHT tax planning and all of those types of tax situations are you know are covered within that.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: But there is an accreditation becoming chartered that makes you feel an element of prestige and confidence.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's like almost a bit of armour, isn't it?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: That that helps you through it because you can say, look, I've got to the highest level here.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I take what I talk about really seriously.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm held, I'm held not only to a high standard in respect of myself and the qualifications that I take, but also through the FCA and how they recognise what this qualification is.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: And as a business, we're committed to being at the top of the game that we can possibly be.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_03: So that helps you build confidence also as well, as well as being able to sit down with those clients and deliver that advice and gain that valuable experience.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's not the be all, you know, as people that I know are level four qualified that earn an absolute fortune and would never go down charter and would never go down charters, yeah, because they just don't they just don't see the point in it.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think it really benefits somebody who's younger to be charters.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I think chartered's gonna be the norm.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's gonna be the norm.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: Took the words out of my mouth.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was asked the point.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: In my head, I was going, I'm just gonna speak about that in a minute.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think 10 years from now, you know, we the industry needs to really become a profession.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: And how can we do that?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Minimum chartered, and I think you've got to, you know, you look at solicitors and accountants charging hourly rates or fixed fees or project fees.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think the industry's kind of to be held on that same level as accountants or solicitors, it's got to go that way, I think, in the long run, because otherwise, I think we'll be stuck in the old school sort of traditional view of the industry that's oh, yeah, we're just sort of, I don't know, sleazy salesman but badged up a bit differently.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think the qual I think the entry-level qualifications could do with it overhaul.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think you know, there's a lot of what I understand, irrelevant information in those RO exams that you'll never use that you never use.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of like people come off of the back of it and be like, why the hell did I even need to know that?
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a lot of that happens a lot, doesn't it, with when you go through the education, you know, go to university, do a degree, and you never use any of it in your life.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and it's like it needs to be replaced with more practical skills and more kind of confidence building skills and the and more um relevance basically to the job that they're doing.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I think there's a an overhaul could could actually happen.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think the CII, for example, have got a bit of a stranglehold on it.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, when people look at the different qualification routes that are out there, you know, they can sometimes get looked down upon because they're easier to attain some of them.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um but that doesn't, you know, the L IBF one, for example, is only like three different uh, you know, exam routes.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_03: If I was going to go down the route of becoming level four qualified to be able to give the advice, I would take the LIF personally take the L IBF route because it's quicker and easier to get me there.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I would work super duper hard on the client acquisition side of being better at marketing, better at uh brand awareness, better at networking, better at the the actual interview process that I have with clients or the financial building of the financial plans, the fun stuff.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: I would be like super, super I'd double down on that type of thing.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I think you know, entry point into the profession, I think, needs to be lowered, but I think standards, charters, yeah, you know, and I think, you know, let's get people into the profession, let's get them doing the job, and then they'll get chartered.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a that's a better way to look at it.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, oh, good to hear then.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: And you're actually doing the job now of a financial plan.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: I've been doing it for the last two years, and and you're now in your dad's firm, right?
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's correct, yeah, that's right, yeah.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it goes full circle to what we talked about earlier.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's a succession plan in place.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're looking to hopefully take over that business and talk to build that business up.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_03: Have you got aspirations?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, talk to me about your aspirations then.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: Talk to me about where you see this business going.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what does it look like to you?
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm just young and hungry, if I'm honest.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can obviously it's it's different at the moment.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh from Carl's perspective, obviously, he's uh you know looking to probably exit in 10 years' time or so.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and therefore it I feel like there's a conflict between I want to grow the business, and but I feel like where he's in a position, he's got a nice, healthy, ongoing um stream of clients, um, he's got a healthy lifestyle.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's I guess it's he's got less incentive to to grow at a higher rate than I would like.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so assuming that you know I now own the business in 10 years' time, I'd obviously I'd like to grow the business.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the the firm's been going since 1987, and it's you know, at the moment, as two advisors and uh our office manager, Jenny, we all do our own admin power planning and stuff.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd like to change that up and almost have the add some efficiency to having an advisor, power planner, admin, and look to expand and grow the business um in the long term, either organically and or you know, if you have the capital and ability to do so um inorganically through acquisitions or whatever.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I'd I'd like to grow the firm and uh yeah, really make it a yeah, good success in the long run.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's not it's still a good success, it's a success now, but I'd just get hungry and young and want to want to grow it.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're you know, let's be honest, a financial planning role in its own right, when you're self-employed, especially, can be a fantastic lifestyle job.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_03: So you could earn really good money and not have to employ and have the responsibility of employing people and trying to train people up and develop them and grow essentially a business that's you then step perhaps maybe away from advice and become a business owner and grow the business.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_03: They're two kind of separate jobs, aren't they?
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_03: One's a financial planner, business owner, and one is business owner.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: I am, you know, a director of a company, I'm trying to grow this business.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the two mindsets can be two very different mindsets.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they obviously would have done it, wouldn't they, otherwise?
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and they obviously like the lifestyle approach.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_03: And for you, you know, you're seeing a succession plan over 10 years, and then you're seeing yourself as being somebody who's also got aspirations to build that business and grow it.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_03: You're talking about administrators, power plans, that's the model.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_03: Building that up and the idea of growing it, expanding it, being able to give advice across multiple disciplines, um, working with introducers, professional introducers, being a brand name that really, really stands out, and growing those assets under management and therefore growing the value of the business.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I think the options that you have in front of you are great, right?
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like you're 24 years old, you're charters, you're you're you're qualified to be an advisor, you're sitting down with clients and giving advice, you're completely competent advisor.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: To start to sign off, everything's there.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_03: What a fantastic position to be in at 24 years old, regardless of age.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's lots of people that I talk to in their 40s who are stepping across into financial advice and would love to be in that position that you're in.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_03: So you have that fantastic opportunity right this second.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: Do you feel quite grateful for it?
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_03: Do you are you glad that you found this profession?
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very grateful that I've had the sort of step up into it.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I've I've you know I'm lucky to know someone in the industry that got me into this position.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's getting the step up uh and getting exposed to the industry, then there's doing the hard work to make sure you can seize that opportunity.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm very grateful for getting that sort of introduction to the industry, but I don't take any credit away from the hard work that I've put in to then achieve what I have.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I am I am grateful.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's sometimes it's really easy to the way I am running hungry.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of you don't almost look take a step back and look at what you've actually achieved thus far.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I was saying if I were looked back five years and went, Oh yeah, in five years you're gonna be a charge financial planner at 24, giving it, but I'll be I'll be excited, I'll be like, oh wow, it's amazing.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's really easy to get caught up in the day-to-day of running and you know, a client bank and looking after clients and doing your job.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_00: That you it's what's next, what's next, what's next, what's next?
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's not you don't always take a step back to look at your achievements, if that makes sense.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you're right.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm in a good position going forward, but I would say um you're in you're in the one you're in the one percent in respect to the opportunity that you have.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_03: You are within the one percent, without a doubt, especially especially for your age.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: So you are in a definitely a privileged position.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_03: So, how you use that now to make your career a success, like you say, is is down to you, and there's hard work that needs to be done.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm sure that you could probably echo what I'm gonna say now is that although you've got chartered qualification, it doesn't make you a successful financial planner.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_03: No, not at all.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_03: Just makes you qualified, right?
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: So having that what makes a successful business is having a business owner that's got the entrepreneurial spirit and drive and um who can form a good culture and you can grow a business.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be wrong, get me wrong, you need individuals within that business who know what they're on about, if you're a service business, especially, or if you're selling a service, you need people with good knowledge to sell that service if you view it that way.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that the qualifications aren't the be and be or are be all or end all.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: As you say, you get many, many, many level four advisors who have bags of experience and are great at explaining concepts to clients and winning business and growing a successful company.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it qualifications aren't the be all or endle.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think being a young planner coming into the industry, and if if that's what you know what you want to do, I'd say just try and get as many under your belt as you can.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it's not going to hinder the journey.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think, right?
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_03: Let's end it on this.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_03: So you're running your business now, right?
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're at you're at the helm, you're that entrepreneurial, younger-driven individual, that advisor, bringing a fresh perspective to the profession.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_03: What's the one thing that you would love to do right now to be able to push this business forward?
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very good question.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think there'd be two things.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it would be adding in a service of behavioural coaching to target the younger population that need a bit of hand holding.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um as well as over implement instead of going for the traditional Anvalorum sort of percentage charge model, going stepping, looking back, looking forward 10 years and going, I think the industry is going to be going on a sort of uh fixed fee or project fee or time charge basis and just start implementing that now, and then put us in good stead to be that profession now instead of in 10 years' time when it's I think it's gonna go that way.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I do it.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: Add in a sort of hand holding service almost for younger clients who can't afford full financial advice and don't need full financial advice, and also for the clients that do need that financial advice to go to that fixed fee um slash time charge model.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's just that's just what I can see the industry going.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly where I see the industry going, and people are now doing that.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think is stopping you from doing that?
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not the one who's ultimately responsible for making the decision.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, Carl, if you're listening in.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um discussions to be had.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, it will be yeah.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess it's the an exit strategy for someone who's got a good income stream at the moment versus a young, hungry person who can see who's gonna be in the industry within 10 years' time and therefore these strategic decisions matter.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's just trying to get that the balance between the two.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's though, I guess, would be stopping me now.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not the one making the uh the final call.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're I think you're spot on.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_03: If I was to step across into the financial planning profession and run a financial planning business, and I'm desp seriously considering it, not as an advisor, but to run a financial planning practice because, like you, I see the opportunity within the profession.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I have a strong background of recruitment, which is one of the hardest things you can do within financial planning.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm building a financial planning academy and I have a strong brand now and a strong name, strong brand name.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_03: One of one of the things that I would a hundred percent implement would be fixed fee.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and transparent, honest fixed fee on a sliding scale, dependent upon the level of service that somebody actually needed for the amount of work that they had.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_03: I would then implement also the coaching element and create a subscription-based model, simplified coaching element, because the next generation that are going to be looking for that financial planning experience are the ones that are going to be inheriting quite large sums of money.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_03: And there is a relationship that needs to be built with them now.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And there is a lot that can be done with those individuals now through coaching, uh, developing financial plans, life protection, mortgages, there are pensions, education.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_03: And once you've got them within your community and you're feeding them good regular content, and maybe you're putting them through some coaching programs that are pre-programmed and pre-selected and are quite simple to follow.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they're listening to your podcast, maybe they're watching your YouTube channel, right?
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_03: And they're building that relationship.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'd be using that model as well to be marketing to the mums and dads as well within my client bank and saying, look, get your kids financially educated now, and then you're reinforcing that intergenerational wealth element again.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a that symbiotic cycle there.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then you start to build.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_03: So you've got two elements, haven't you?
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_03: This coaching area, and there are there is a huge, huge, huge market.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_03: There's 95% of the population that don't fit the model of financial planning.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_03: They just don't they can't afford it based on how it is at the moment, right?
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_03: They thought that 95% of the population, the generic client, need generic financial planning.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_03: They don't even need regulated advice, they don't need to be sold a product, they just need financial planning.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_03: And they're willing to pay the money for that financial planning, whether that's through subscription model or whether that's sitting down with you for a financial plan.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_03: And if at the end of that financial plan it works out that there is opportunity there for investment or whatever it might well be, then the financial planner then can sell the product.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I I would build the business almost being look, there's a huge element on the coaching element side, non-regulated.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_03: That for me as well creates a beautiful ecosystem to train people in.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I bring young people like you in that might not have uber confidence of sitting down in front of a client to deliver the sales part of the finance, you know, giving, you know, selling the product.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_03: I know I hate using the term selling, but essentially the products sale.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd have those people really building up on their confidence and building the plans and working with clients, the psychology behind it, all the things that you said.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm with you, you know, do it.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Follow through on what you believe, because what you're saying, based on what I know about the profession as a whole, because I look at it as a whole, yeah, what you're saying is a hundred percent right.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_03: If you do that now and you start implementing that, yeah, in 10 years' time, when Carl sells his client bank to you, you will be fucking light years ahead.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's nice to know that as a second opinion, that's always uh yeah, nice to know when two people see the industry going the same way, I guess.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's uh yeah, very interesting.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_03: Food for thought.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely food for thought.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Listen, thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_03: I love talking to younger advisors.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_03: I love hearing about the success you've had and the drive that you have.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_03: There's 100% a place for more people like you in this profession.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's absolutely needed.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, anybody listening to this episode right now who is younger, maybe they're graduating, maybe they're thinking about going to university, or they're really, really thinking about a career.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_03: This is, without a shadow of a doubt, a career you can step on into, you can move into admin, you can do power planning, you can become a financial planner, employed or self-employed.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_03: Just don't overstress yourself out.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_03: The profession is so much opportunity you can't fail.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Just get in there and get the experience and start moving up that ladder as quickly as you possibly can.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_00: 100% agree with that.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Top man.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for your time.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thank you, Sam.