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The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan - The Valley of Humiliation · Reformed Thinking

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  Reformed thinking. Welcome to the deep dive.
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  This is where we take the sources you send over articles,
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  notes, research, that kind of thing, and really try to pull
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  out the main insights. Think of it as a way to get up
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  to speed quickly, maybe find some connections you didn't
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  expect. Today we're looking at a really
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  vivid scene from the Pilgrims Progress.
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  It's Christians face off with Apollyon in the Valley of
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  Humiliation. We'll be working from excerpts
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  of the book itself and some analysis you shared.
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  Right. And our goal here is to unpack
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  the details of that confrontation, get a feel for
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  the characters in this moment, and see what key ideas really
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  stand out for you from this material.
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  OK, so the story picks up after Christian has been at the house.
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  Beautiful. He's making his way now down
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  into the Valley of Humiliation. Yeah, and the sources make it
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  clear this descent isn't easy. It's described as difficult,
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  even dangerous. He's not totally alone at first
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  though, right? The material mentions 4
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  companions going down the hill with him.
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  Discretion. Piety.
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  Charity and prudence, yeah, and there's a reason they're with
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  him. The text says.
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  It's a hard matter for a man to go down into the Valley of
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  Humiliation and to catch no slip.
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  By the way, it even notes that Christian himself, though he's
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  being very wary, still has a slip or two.
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  Wow, so even with help and being careful, it's still tricky.
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  And it shows how tough this spiritual low point this valley
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  can be to navigate. And then at the bottom, before
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  he goes on, they give him some things.
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  Yeah, provisions. Yeah, Loaf of bread, a bottle of
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  wine and a cluster of raisins. Then he continues on his own.
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  And that's when things really kick off.
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  He's alone now in the valley and the text says he's hard put to
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  it. Then he spots in this foul fiend
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  coming over the field Apollyon and the.
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  Description of Apollyon of the sources is something else.
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  Just terrifying. Calls him a hideous monster.
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  OK, he's got scales like a fish, which the text notes are his
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  pride. Wings like a dragon, feet like a
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  bear. Wow.
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  Fire and smoke coming out of his belly and a mouth like a lion.
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  So quite the image. Very intimidating.
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  Yeah, no kidding. And Christian's reaction is
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  pretty understandable. He gets scared, the sources say.
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  He starts thinking, should I turn back?
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  Should I stand? Here, like that moment of
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  decision and the material actually tells us exactly why he
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  decides to stand his ground. It's a very specific, practical
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  reason, he realizes he had no armor for his back.
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  OK, so if he turned to run. Napoleon would have an easy shot
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  and says turning might give him the greater advantage with ease
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  to Pierce him with his darts. Makes sense.
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  Vulnerable from behind? Exactly.
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  So even though he's afraid, he figures standing firm is
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  actually the safer bet. He resolved to venture and stand
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  his ground. The thinking was, even just for
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  the saving of my life, standing is the best way to, well, stand.
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  So he braces himself and Napoleon comes up, looks at him
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  with this disdainful countenance, the text says, and
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  he starts questioning him. Where are you from?
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  Where are you going? Christian answers straight up
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  from the city of destruction going to the city of Zion.
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  And Napoleon immediately claims ownership.
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  You're one of my subjects. Yeah, he says all that country
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  is mine and I am the Prince and God of it.
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  Then asks him why he run away from thy king.
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  It's a direct challenge to a Christian's new path.
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  How does Christian respond to that?
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  Well, he acknowledges where he came from, that he was born
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  there, but he says Apollyon's quote, service was hard and your
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  wages such as a man could not live on.
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  And he quotes scripture here, doesn't he?
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  For the wages of sin is death. That's his reason for leaving.
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  He wanted to mend myself. But Apollyon tries to lure him
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  back, right? Offers him stuff.
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  Oh yeah, he promises him what our country will afford.
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  He even tries to argue Christian made a bad trade, saying the
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  king of Princess service is worse.
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  He claims it's common, ordinary for people who claim to follow
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  the king to just give him the slip and come back to him.
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  Apollyon. Trying to undermine his
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  confidence, the Christian doesn't bite.
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  No, he's quite firm, he says. I have let myself to another,
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  even to the King of Princess. Basically, I've got a new master
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  now, he asks. How can I with fairness, go back
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  with thee? He stresses.
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  He's given him my faith and sworn my allegiance to him.
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  Going back would make him a traitor.
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  He'd be hanged as a traitor, he says.
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  Pretty strong language. It is, and Napoleon tries to
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  brush off Christian's past allegiance to him, saying, oh,
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  that was when you were young and didn't know better in your
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  nattage. But Christian has an answer for
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  that, too. He does.
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  He points out that his new Prince is able to absolve me,
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  yay, and to pardon also what I did as to my compliance with
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  thee. So pointing to forgiveness for
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  the past. Exactly.
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  That's where his confidence comes from now and he makes his
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  preference crystal clear. He says I like his service, his
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  wages, his servants, his government, his company and
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  country better than thine, full stop.
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  Then tells Apollyon leave off to persuade me further.
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  I am his servant and I will follow him.
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  Case closed basically. OK, so persuasion didn't work.
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  What's Napoleon's next move, according to the sources?
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  He's switching gears. He starts with warnings, trying
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  to scare Christian about the road ahead.
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  He claims followers of the king usually come to an I'll and
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  because they go against Napoleon.
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  And he adds this bit that the king never came yet to rescue
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  his followers when things got tough.
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  Ouch. Trying to plant seeds of doubt
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  about God's faithfulness. And contrast it with himself,
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  boasting that he often rescues his own servants using power or
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  fraud. He even offers to rescue
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  Christian if he comes back. How does Christian handle that
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  one? He pushes back.
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  He argues that when the king doesn't immediately rescue them,
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  it's purposeful. It's to try their love whether
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  they will cleave to him to the end.
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  So a test of faithfulness. Right, and that I'll end.
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  Apollyon mentioned. Christian says it's actually
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  most glorious in their account. They're just waiting for their
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  glory. When the Prince returns, it
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  completely reframes the suffering.
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  OK, so warnings didn't work either.
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  What's left in Napoleon's verbal arsenal?
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  Personal accusations. He goes right after Christian's
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  own track record, saying he's already been unfaithful in thy
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  service to him, meaning the King.
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  Bringing up past mistakes, What specifically does he mention?
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  The sources list quite a few things.
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  Fainting at this love of despond.
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  Oh yeah. Way back.
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  Crying wrong ways to get rid of his burden, falling asleep and
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  losing his scrawl. The choice thing, right?
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  Yes, nearly turning back when he saw the lions of the palace
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  beautiful and even being motivated by pride, vain glory
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  when talking about his experiences.
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  Wow, he's kept a detailed record.
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  How does Christian deal with that?
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  It's pretty specific it is. And Christian's response is
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  really interesting. He doesn't deny any of it.
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  He says all this is true and much more which thou has left
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  out. He owns it.
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  He just admits it. Admits it fully, but then
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  immediately pivots, he says. But the Prince whom I serve and
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  honor is merciful and ready to forgive.
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  Back to pardon. Exactly.
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  And he adds this crucial bit about where those feelings came
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  from. He says these infirmities
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  possessed me in thy country for their I sucked them in.
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  He links those sins back to his origins under Apollyon's rule,
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  and finishes by saying he has groaned under them, been sorry
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  for them, and have obtained pardon of my Prince.
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  So acknowledging the reality of sin, but grounding his standing
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  entirely in the prince's forgiveness.
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  That seems to be the core take away from his defense in the
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  material, yeah. Now, there's something we should
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  probably mention about the sources themselves here.
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  Right. It's worth pointing out that
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  while we get this incredibly detailed back and forth, this
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  verbal battle, the source material you provided doesn't
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  actually go on to describe the physical fight.
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  We don't see how Christian defeats Apollyon in combat, just
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  this whole intense conversation leading up to it.
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  OK. Good clarification.
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  So let's step back. Why is digging into this
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  encounter useful for you, the listener?
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  Well, I think. It paints a pretty stark picture
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  of the kind of spiritual opposition you might face.
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  It's not always subtle. Sometimes it's direct
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  Challenges, accusations, temptations and that.
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  Contrast is really clear, isn't it?
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  Apollyon service hard wages are death full of accusations versus
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  the king service based on mercy, pardon and future hope.
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  Definitely. And Christian having to wrestle
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  with those specific accusations about his past failures?
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  That feels very real. Many people can probably relate
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  to having past sins or weaknesses thrown back at them,
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  whether by external forces or just internal doubts.
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  Christian's response? Admit it, but point departing
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  seems key it. Also shows how temptation works.
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  You know? Apollyon uses a mix of tactics,
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  outright demands, trying to persuade warnings, dredging up
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  the past, appealing to maybe an easier way.
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  It's not just one thing, right? It's multifaceted, so maybe a
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  question to think about coming out of this material.
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  Christian says his weaknesses, his infirmities, came from
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  Apollyon's country. There.
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  I suck them in. How does that idea resonate with
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  you? How do you think about the
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  influence of maybe the world or background you came from?
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  And following Christian's example, where do you look for
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  strength and pardon when those old patterns are failing?
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  Surface something? To consider.
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  Well, thank you for joining us for this deep dive into
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  Christian and Napoleon. You can find more deep dives
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  like this wherever you usually listen.