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The Deadly Double Debate · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Winter Insurance spit. I true, I'm a check on insurance
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: get actue than is.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Hey.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm your host, Adam
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Todd Brown joining me as co host this week. Ooh,
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: my favorite co host of all no co host, but
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: I do have a couple of fantastic guests, case in
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: point joining us for the first time in a long time.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Tom Ryman's here.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: Hi.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: How's it going?
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: Pretty good? Pretty good? There's an extra person living in
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: my house now since the last time I talked to you.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's right.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: It's a very small person.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Son. You know.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've I've heard like rumors and allegations that you're
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: a father.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Now that's there. You know what, I can confirm that
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: they're true. I am a dad.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: I fouled a Freedom of Information Act request. Yeah, find out.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: I have been. I'm settling into it. I have been
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: watching Reacher. Oh and bosh, I'm gonna get I've got
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: a stack of Tom Clancy books to get through. Really
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: settling into being a dad.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Well, congrats, thank you, thanks for doing the pod. Also,
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: you all know them, y'all love them. John Lewis is here.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: What up? Oh, y'all? I'm deep in my conspiracy bag
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: this month. I just finished his book called Boxing in
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: a Mob and it was amazing.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Oh, is there is there mafia influence in boxing?
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Come on, I got working on a video about that one.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: All I thought boxing was all on the up and up.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: It's way way more mob connected than you would ever imagine,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: which is pretty weird because yeah, right.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: Because you already assume it's like pretty mired in an
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: organized crib.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: So this week this is a bonus episode. But because
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: it's the holidays, I'm putting out all the bonus episodes
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: for free through the end of the year.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: So that's why this is holiday themed.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's lucky best. It's a Christmas conspiracy Sporida. We
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: are talking about something that we've sort of talked about before.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: We did an episode years ago about the advanced Knowledge theory,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: which is the theory that at least some elements in
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: the United States government and or military knew Pearl Harbor
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: was going to happen and wanted it to happen so
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: we could get into World War two. And on that
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: episode we talked about this dice game called the Deadly Double.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: But we just really kind of glossed over it. And
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: I'm right now in the middle of a series of
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: episodes about the Office of Naval Intelligence, which is America's
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: oldest and first intelligence agency. They were founded in I
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: want to say, eighteen sixty eight something like that, and
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: it was back when we were doing all our warshit
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: with boats. So that's why they were first, makes perfect sense.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: But they were also still our main intelligence agency in
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: the build up to World War Two and Pearl Harbor.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: Before I go down this rabbit hole, just in reading
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: the article what's Everyone's temperature on the veracity of this claim,
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: which just quick the claim is that adds in an
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: issue of The New Yorker magazine for a dice game
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: called the Deadly Double were actually a coded message about
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: when Pearl Harbor, what's going to happen?
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Well, this is the most niche game to ever fucking
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: exist if it was real. Yeah, it's advertised as a
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: game to play if you hiding in a bunker, you know,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: from an air ray like what.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I mean the you know parts of Casablanca.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: Every every scene in Casablanca was filmed indoors because you
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: weren't allowed outside after dark in California because of the
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: fear of bombing raids from Japan. So it was a
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: fear that was on people's minds at the time. It's like,
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: I there's things, there's things about the story that are weird, definitely,
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: like I'll admit, but I don't No, I don't buy it.
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: I don't buy it.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: I think the actual explanation is weirder than.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: There's holes in it.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: This for sure.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: It's strange why there are holes in it.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's a there's a huge, huge hole in
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: this that we will talk about in a little bit.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: But the ad, the way it worked in this issue
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: of The New Yorker, there were all of these smaller
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: ads that featured two pair of dice underneath the words octum, warning,
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  Speaker 3: alert or alert he which all basically mean the same thing.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: And then it says see advertisement page eighty six. Then
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: there's two pairs of dice. One has the numbers twelve,
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: twenty four and xx, you know as dice in the
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: nineteen forties do maybe they're engs and dragging the dice,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: who knows? And then there is a second dice with
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: the numbers zero, five and seven, which also very strange
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: as far as dice go.
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  Speaker 4: Didn't it say it had not odd numbers on it? Yeah,
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: it was just odd numbers.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. On one of them it's just zero five seven
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: and the other one's twelve twenty four.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: Oh okay, I thought they were Sorry, I thought all
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: sides of the die had numbers on it. Sorry, not important.
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  Speaker 3: And it says Monarch Publishing Company at the bottom, and
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: then New York and then the actual ad for one thing.
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  Speaker 3: The top of the ad there's an air raid happening.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: People are shooting at something in the sky, and then
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: below that is people huddled in a bunker. They look
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: like pretty well off people to me. They're dressed very
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: fan well. I mean, this is also the forties, though.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: That's what people fucking dress like when they went to
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: the grocery store back then. Suits all the time, all.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Right, you had to wear the shit to go watch
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: a baseball game.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: Man. They're partying in the bomb shelter.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not concerned.
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: That's a that's a fucking bougie air raid.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And the bomb shelter looks rickety as fuck.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: No, it does not look good. It doesn't look like
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: one of the cool ones like from Fallout. It just
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: it looks like a mine shaft. It looks like they're
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: hiding in a mine shaft. Yeah, they added like the fox,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: so yeah.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: But also they have like wine and shit and they're
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: playing dice games.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: This is a dinner party they have, like they have
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: a little layup with electricity, and that's optimistic.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So here's what the text of this ad says.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: This is all a quote. We hope you'll never have
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: to spend a long winter's night in an air raid shelter.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: But we were just thinking it's only common sense to
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: be prepared. If you're not too busy between now and Christmas,
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: why not sit down and plan a list of the
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: things you'll want to have on hand. And though it's
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: no time really to be thinking of what's fashionable, we
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: bet that most of your friends will remember to include
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: those intriguing dice and chips which make Chicago's favorite game,
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: the Deadly Double End quote that part, I mean, I
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: know it was on people's minds, but like we weren't
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: at war yet.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: No, that's a fucking weird paragraph like that. This this
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: is a this ad was written by a madman, like
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: this is the most deranged ad copy I've ever read.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: It's those favorite game. Awesome that you would just lie
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: and say America's favorite game if you want to make
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: some shit up.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. The guy who made this was from New York,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: so like, how would he even know Chicago's favorite game, but.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: Just say New York.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: This seems like a more prestigious city. This whole thing
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: is just so weird.
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like haunting. It's a haunting. Like even without
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: the Pearl Harbor context, like this this weirds me out,
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  Speaker 4: Like why would you write this to sell a dice skin?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, like this would seem even weirder if Pearl Harbor
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  Speaker 3: didn't happen two weeks later. Oh yeah, because at least
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: we can pin this to something.
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  Speaker 4: Right, Like, with the context of the conspiracy theory, the
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: ad actually makes more sense, Like you're like, oh, thank god,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: this is just a secret code for Pearl Harbor. It's
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: not the ramblings of a mad man.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know much about that history that tom where
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Americans just practicing for air raids. Were they having like
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: air rage reels in the nineteen forties probably.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: I don't really know. This is before look the Duck
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: and Cover atomic air raid tests. That were everybody knows about,
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: but I don't know really.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure there was some some tension and
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: some paranoia around it because World War Two started and
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: then it took us a little bit to get in
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: and in that lag time that was a really big
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: debate in this country was should we go over there
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: and help or should we be isolationist about it and
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: stay out of it. We declared ourselves neutral at first,
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: I do believe, and then Pearl Harbor happened and we
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: were like, all right, here we go.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: Well it was because we were like, no, we're neutral,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: but they were like, Okayhapam, we're gonna stop selling you
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: oil because you're being bad, and they like you better
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: not like now we're going to stop selling you oil.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: And then there's Pearl Harbor. Yeah, and then we're in it.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it was. I mean, it was definitely a
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: thing that was on people's minds. And one thing I
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: have found researching the Office of Naval Intelligence is they
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: especially wanted to get into World War two because their
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: whole thing was advocating for expansion of the navy and
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: improving our naval fleets. And what was happening was with
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: each president that would take office. You'd have a pacifist
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: who was like, now we got to fucking mostly dismantle
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: the Navy. And then you'd get like Grover Cleveland, who
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: was like, no more Navy, please, And that was the
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: back and forth for the Office of Naval Intelligence. It
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: was how do we justify our existence?
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: That might be the most I've ever learned about Grover Cleveland.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not much to that fella. So I think what
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: prompted all of the renewed interest in this, it seems like,
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: is there's a book by a guy named Craig Nelson.
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: Pig T Nelson Coach.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately not, although how crazy would it be.
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: If it was Coach just randomly writing about this weird conceriracy.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I'm the only thing I know if coach is. It
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: was some born sitcom I used to skip past as
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: a kid.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: How dare you that show was great?
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: It probably was. It was may like fifteen years before
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I was born. I think I have no idea.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah it's old, Yeah, it's oldish. I mean, yeah, it
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: was on its way out when I was a little kid.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: It would be funny if Craig T. Nelson's pen name
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: is just he drops the te No one's gonna know.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: No one on know.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: It's actually kind of smart, right, yeah, say, most people
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: wouldn't assume it exactly. So.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Craig Nelson wrote a book that was published in twenty
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: sixteen called Pearl Harbor From Infamy to Greatness, and in
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: that book he has this passage about the deadly double
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: dice game ads. Here go, it's kind of long, sorry,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: here goes. On November twenty second, nineteen forty one, a
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: strange advertisement appeared in the New Yorker magazine. It pictured
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: a group of people sheltered from an air raid playing
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: dice under the headline Octune Warning Aleartey. The copy read
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: we just read the copy, I'll skip that part scattered
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: throughout the issue, where six smaller tag ads referring back
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: to the main copy with the dice number two, twelve,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: and seven numbers on no known dice. Later during the war,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: Navy transport pilot Joseph Bell was flying a South Pacific
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: route when one of his passengers, an intelligence officer, told
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: him that many in intelligence considered this ad a secret warning.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: He had been assigned to investigate the matter, but every
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: lead had led to a dead end. The AD's copy
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: had been presented in person at the magazine's offices, and
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: the fee paid with cash end quote. And I think
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: that's what prompts Snopes to write their article, because the
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Snopes article was published also in twenty sixteen, just like
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: his book. And I think I've talked about this Snopes
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: article a lot, but it is one of the most
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: frustrating articles on the internet. Really, you don't think so
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: you read how it ends, right.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: I read it really fast.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: So okay, well let me I'll just.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: Go through sure, yeah, yeah, sorry.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Issues with it. For one thing, they don't show the
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: main ad.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: In the article, which is yeah, that was weird.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: I think this all is a lot weirder if you
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: look at both of the ads and not just the
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: one with the dice in it that says octun.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Also, I don't know how adveratarse work back then, but
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: six ads for a dice game in one magazine that
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: seems kind.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Of existed, right, oh, just wait, just wait, that is excessive.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: I agree. Also, I already said this, but we weren't
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: at war when this ad happened, so I don't know
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: what the inspiration would have been. I mean, I get
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: that we were talking about it, but weird.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a big leap.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Also, everything in the Snopes article and pretty much
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: anyone who's ever looked into this frames it as, Oh,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: we think maybe this was Japan planning codes in the
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: New Yorker magazine to let their agents in the United
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: States know this was going to happen. What they're ignoring
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: is the other possibility, which is that this was US
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: military intelligence that planted these ads. Oh, and I think
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: why US intelligence would do this is a way easier
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: question to answer than why Japan would do it, because
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: at this point in history, again country highly divided over
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: whether America should stay out of World War two or not,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: isolationists versus let's fight, especially within the government. That was
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: like the Republican versus Democrat debate of the day. And
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: if you don't believe that, there is a document out
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: there called the McCollum Memo. It's from prior to World
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: War two, and it lays out eight steps that the
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: United States should follow if they want Japan to attack
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: them so we can get into the war. This is
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: a this is an actual government document. This has been
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: verified as real. We'll link to it in the show. Notes,
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: but this is the opening paragraph of it. It is
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: not believe that in the present state of political opinion,
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: the United States government is capable of declaring war against
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Japan without more ado, and it is barely possible that
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: vigorous action on our part might lead the Japanese to
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: modify their attitude. Therefore, the following course of action is suggested,
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: and Tom actually already mentioned one of these, But these
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: are the steps he says we should follow. Make an
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: the Pacific, particularly Singapore. Make an arrangement with Holland for
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: the use of base facilities, an acquisition of supplies in
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: the Dutch East Indies. Give all possible aid to the
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Chinese government. Send a division of long range heavy cruisers
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: to the Orient, Philippines or Singapore. Send two divisions of
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: submarines to the Orient. Keep the main strength of the
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: US fleet now in the Pacific in the vicinity of
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: the Hawaiian Islands. Insists that the Dutch refused to grant
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil, completely embargo
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: all US trade with Japan in collaboration with a similar
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: embargo imposed at the British Empire. And then there's a
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: final sentence. If by these means Japan could be led
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: to commit an overt active war, so much the better.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: At all events, we must be fully prepared to accept
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: the threat of war. The military wanted Japan to attack us.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: We wanted to get into that war. That's the military's words.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: That's not a doctor document. That's not Russia didn't fucking
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: plant that.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: All right. I gotta stop you there, Adam, because one
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: in an inter a war that does not sound like
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: something America would do. I don't know about you.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I also I know we wouldn't ever lie to
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: get into a war.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: Definitely not.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I still think the Gulf of tonk can happen
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: exactly as the US government said. I'm sure Iraq had
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: weapons of mass destruction, right, And what's interesting is FDR
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: did every one of those things on that list, and
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: sure enough Japan attacked US.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's also a checklist of how to choke
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: Japan out of the war.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it also ends with if they attacked us,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: that's great.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: All the better.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But that reminds me of is the project for
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: a New American Century, which was a document that was
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: written I think in ninety eight or ninety nine, and
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: it's like Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, all of the fucking
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: Republican war hawks who destroyed the Middle East in the
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: two thousands and they won, lay out all these countries
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: that we're going to need to have conflicts with if
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: we want to keep being the best. We went to
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: war with damn near every one of them. I think
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: China is the last one left. And also it ends
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: the same way, except I think they worded it like, oh,
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: if we had another Pearl Harbor, this would all be
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: much easier to pull off, and then nine to eleven happened.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: Sure, I guess the big question I'm going to keep
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: coming back to is why bother with the ads? They
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: didn't do that for any of those other operations, Like
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: why bother with you? Wouldn't you just if this was
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: a military operation. They have ways of speaking to everybody
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: they need to speak to without having to put out
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: magazine ads.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: They do. But also I don't think this is a
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: thing you would put in an official document and just
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: send it out.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: I mean they've they sent official memos about the bomb
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: at about the bomb, about the Manhattan Project, they just
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: they just dressed it up in all sorts of coded
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: language and stuff.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: But it was also a thing we knew we were
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: going to go public with, like there was no way
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: to bomb and the public about it.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: Right. The end goal is the if.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: There was an official document where they were like, you
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: know what, we're gonna let like, yeah, two thousand people
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: die at Pearl Harbor so we can get into World
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: War two, the public would have burned the fucking White
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: House down.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: I would believe more that those official communications existed but
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: were subsequently destroyed after Pearl Harbor. Was if we're following
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: this conspiracy theory and that they did all these things
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: to go Japan into making an active war, they did
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: not necessarily know it was going to be what they did,
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: and after Pearl Harbor became the day that would live
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: an infamy, I could see them destroying all of those communications.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: It still doesn't make sense to me why you do
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: a magazine.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know why you would do a
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: magazine ad Easther.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: So they all have to buy the New Yorker, they
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, they didn't have to buy the
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: New Yorker.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: They just had to take.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: Out as we had to read it, right.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this one's weird to me because it sounds like
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: something the government would do. But like my question is,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: like how many really really important people died on Pearl Harbor,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: because like maybe this was just like a thing for
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: specific people that were trained in in the cold already.
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: It was more about taking out the Pacific Fleet as
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: I if I'm remember incorrectly, So there wasn't like any
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: specific individual targets.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: It was just no I mean like maybe the cold
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: was for certain maybe if America knew it was coming,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: they just wanted certain people to not be there.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that would make the most sense that
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: they were tipping I mean, if this is related to
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Pearl Harbor, someone's being tipped off.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's not like everybody knows how to crack
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: the code in the Navy.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: And what's interesting, speaking of codes, one of the allegations
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: when it comes to Pearl Harbor is that we cracked
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Japan's codes way before Pearl Harbor. And if that's the case,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: we probably did know they were going to do it.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: I think there is documentation about that about how they
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: were aware of something but just didn't follow it or
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: didn't take it seriously or something like that.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: And again, that doesn't sound like the United States at all. Yeah.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I was about to say America is also super arrogant.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: So I could see them knowing something and they're like,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: ain't nobody go try?
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: Well, But I mean, if what you know for Adam's
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: the memo that Adam has, they might have just been like, yeah,
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: we know they're going to do in that, that's what
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: we want. Yeah, it happened and it was like, well,
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: we didn't know they were going to do that. Yeah.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: That's also possible is that they thought this was going
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: to maybe be lesser of an attack than it was.
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: Maybe one boat, like the Spanish American War or what
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: was that was that?
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the Spanish American War. That is one
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: of the things that really set the Office of Naval
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Intelligence into being an actual intelligence agency was the sinking
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: of the USS Main.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: That's okay, I couldn't remember the name of the boat.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that precipitated the Spanish American War. So I feel like,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: if nothing else, this is important context to include when
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: talking about these ads for this dice game, that there
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: is evidend out there that elements within the US military
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: wanted to enter World War two, and they thought a
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: way to do it was to have Japan attack US.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: If we didn't know this was happening, the coincidences here
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: are just immeasurable. I say this on damn near every
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: episode true crime. One thing you'll hear all the time
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: from the fucking cops on true crime shows or fans
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: of true crime shows. No such thing as a coincidence.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: With conspiracy theories, everything's a coincidence.
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: I don't get that they're both logical fallacies, right, Yeah,
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: there's no such thing as coincidence. Well, yeah there is.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: Did you explain what the code is? Oh yeah we
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: did that. One's ice is twelve and one dice is seven. Okay,
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: But like I'm looking at the ad, how would you
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: necessarily know that twelve seven was the date? Because there's
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: also twelve five. It could have been.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: One thing people have suggested is that the i've was
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: meant to be when it was going to start, but
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: it actually started.
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: At seven almost eight.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: I think it's possible it could be a range of dates.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: They could be saying twelve five to twelve seven is
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: when it's going to happen, and that's when you need
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: to be ready for it. But there's also a lot
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: more to that code. I went down a real goddamn
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: rabbit hole today.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I read through the note. Yeah, that was some
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: real experiencing shit by it sound like the muh black
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: is oh yeah, oh yeah here.
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: It makes it.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: Another thing I take issue with in this Snopes article
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: is the thing about how Craig Nelson said the game
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: didn't exist, but Snopes is like, yeah, it did, here's
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: a link to it. There's one copy of this game
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: in existence. There was one copy sold on Etsy in
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: twenty twelve. That to me doesn't prove that this game
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: actually existed. That could be a fucking prototype. Aren't there
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: out there?
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: But then what were they comparing it to In the
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: one source where it said the twelve and the seven
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: aren't numbers on any known dice dice only have six sides.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I think they're just going off like regular dice only
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: have six numbers.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Right, And the ad is where the twelve and the
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: seven are. So that's what great referencing when well when
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: they say.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: No, I know, I know, that's like what it's what
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: making the numbers twelve seven stand out because they're not
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: on the actual dice that That's what I'm saying is like,
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: how are they making that conclusion? Then if there weren't
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: available copies of the game for them to look at, well,
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: they're saying dice oh and just in general.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh okay, Yeah, like you said, Dungeons and Dragons
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: wasn't invented, so they're like, why the hell do these
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: weird dice have s, wales and sevens instead of one
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: through six?
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was that weird game. I mean, the rules
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: are I don't know they're using special dice for the game.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: The rules of this game are nuts.
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I tried to read different.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like you'd have to be a World
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: War two code breaker to play.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: I was a kid. If it's a twelve, yeah pick
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: it up.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: If it's not, you throw it three times, Like what shit,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: that's the most complicated thing.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: Let me just shoot some dice, man, we do. And
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: I just want to.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Say, sometimes stereotypes of true because I one this was
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: going to be an episode about some dude shooting dice
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: and it somehow had to do with Pearl Harbor, and
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this must be let's go.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that'd be great. Just some street hustler playing craps
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: Pearl Harbor. That's the movie I want to write.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Like somebody overslipt and forgot to warm the people because
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: he got he lost his fucking shoes.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: What I find interesting about the controversy over whether the
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: game existed or not is they point to this one
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: listing that shows a copy of the game. The argument
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: is also that the publishing company never existed, and did
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: Snopes look into that at all? Because they don't mention
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: that part. And I can't find shit about Monarch Publishing
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: from the nineteen fifties. And before people listening at home say,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: well you wouldn't be able to find information about any
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: rando publishing company from the nineteen fifties, bullshit. I found
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: a Wikipedia page for Monarch Books, which was a publisher
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: in the fifties and sixties. If this is the same company,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: they certainly are not proud of having made Deadly Double
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: because it's not listed among their shit. They just do
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: like pulp fiction novels.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Okay. Also, my ADHD brain just kicked in. It probably
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: doesn't have anything to do with it, but you know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Godzilla the movie has to do with like it was.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: The original was like a metaphor for World War Two,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: and Monarch is like the company in Godzilla some shit
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Right, Oh is it?
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I just watched it. It's a show call. I think
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: the show is Monarch. I don't know if that's any
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: original one, but yeah, like the company in the Gods
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: of the Universe that like hunts the monsters and covers
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: it all up. It's called Monarch.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: That sounds like something a bumbling intelligence agent would fucking
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: pull when trying to pull off an operation like this.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: What do we call it? Monarch? Like Godzilla?
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: And also this board game.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: It shows about people that like collect all types of
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: weird stuff, like from Garfield people and board game people.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: You said, let me, none of them board game people
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: that just have like boxes full of board games have
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: this in their collection. Nobody has to copy this game.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: It's just one in existence.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: And the other thing is when this issue of The
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: New Yorker came out and then Pearl Harbor happened, the
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: public absolutely picked up on this. The New Yorker was
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: getting fucking calls and letters from people. The FBI allegedly
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: looked into it, So would it be outside the realm
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: of possibility that once that public furor started, whoever would
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: be behind this, you could just produce a copy or
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: two of the fucking game. The government would have had
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: the resources to pull that part off. Also, But there
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: is an article out there that will link to in
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: the show notes from someone else who looked into this
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: way back in the day, and that guy went to
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: several stores in the New York area looking for this
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: game and could not find it anywhere. So I don't know.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm sold by the one copy
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: being out there. I do think there would at least
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: be two three. No, it's crazy, but it's the publisher
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: part is weirder to me, Like companies leave at least
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: some kind of trail.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Also, I don't know if I'm jumping ahead the address
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: of the publishing that's I forgot what building you said.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: It's like rented out of some expensive building.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Also, yeah, I mean the Japanese Consulate was in that
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: building at the same time. Monarch Publishing would have been
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: there also. But yeah, well we'll get to that in
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: a second. But this is where I put my goddamn
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: conspiracy hat on for this next part. There's a quote
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: from the creator of this game in this Snopes article,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: and they don't elaborate on this part, but this is
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: what he says. In other acrostic arrangements of the visible numerals,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: together with incongruous calculations based on the number of advertisements
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: and the page numbers in the magazine. An additional code
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: message to alleged access agents was read into the copy,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: and he's commenting on how crazy all this talk is.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I shit you not. Before I reread the Snaps article,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: I had the thought that what if the page numbers
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: all these ads are on add up to something? And
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: one of the weird things I found when I looked
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: up the New Yorker issue, Because the New Yorker has
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: archives of all their issues online. I had to subscribe
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: to the New Yorker. Where's my goddamn metal? But they
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: have archives of all of their issues out there, and
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: this magazine is out there. Every source you read about
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: this says there were six, or sometimes they say half
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: a dozen tag ads, which are the smaller ads referencing
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: the bigger ad. There's actually fifteen. And I don't know
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: why that part keeps getting fucked up. But I will
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: tell you this. When I was going through flipping through
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: this New Yorker magazine and I saw that there were
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: so many of these ads, more than any of these
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: sources say there's fifteen of the smaller ads, I was
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: like why, and then I shit you not. My thought was,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: what if I add up the page numbers that each
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: of these are on, is it going to add up
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: to anything? So these page numbers thirty two, thirty five,
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: forty four, forty eight, sixty two, sixty four, sixty six,
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: eighty two, eighty four, eighty six, eighty nine, ninety ninety four,
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: ninety six, ninety nine, one hundred, What the fuck? Why
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: are there that many ads for this thing in New
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: Yorker magazine. There's nothing else in the magazine like this.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: There's nothing else where. It's like like you're driving down
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: the road and you keep seeing billboards that are like,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: you're not gonna believe this billboard that's coming up, Like right,
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: there's none of that for any of these other ads.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: If you add those page numbers together, it adds up
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: to one one hundred and seventy one, which that number
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: means nothing for Pearl Harbor but that first dice where
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: everything is doubled, there's an XX, there's twelve, there's twenty four.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: My thought was, what if you count the page that
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: the main ad is on twice. If you do that,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: those page numbers add up to one two five seven.
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: That's weird.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: That's weird. Those are the same goddamn numbers, Like I
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: know that could that could obviously be a coincidence.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: What is one two five seven?
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Those are the numbers on the dice, on the dice,
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: Oh oh yeah, yeah, the page numbers. If you take
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: page eighty six, if you add eighty six in twice,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: if you double it, you get the same numbers that
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: are on that dice. Which I think that's what that
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: guy's talking about when he says people because again his
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: quote was incongruous calculations based on the number of advertisements
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: and the page numbers in the magazine. So other people
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: have the same thought that I had. I think, eat it.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Out, or they were really trying to sell this goddamn
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: weird ass dice game with fifteen ads in a New
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Yorker That couldn't have been cheap.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah what if that cost? Where did he get the money?
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: You like? Five dollars back though that was like half
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: a thousand in our money.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I'll sort that.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: That's just crazy.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Fifteen ass for this game does not make sense to
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: me in one magazine.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, someone definitely didn't want people to miss what was
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: on page eighty six, that is, for god damn sure.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's all a coincidence
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: that the page numbers add up to the same thing
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: that's on the dice. But the most infuriating thing about
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: the SNOPS article is the very last sentence, one final
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: note to prove if nothing else, that real life abhors
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: a tidy ending. According to his widow, deadly double inventor
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Roger Paul Craig went on to serve in the Office
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: of Strategic Services, the military progenitor of the CIA during
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: World War Two end quote. How fuck do you end
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: the article with that? And then you're just like all right,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: by no other questions? There's nothing else to see here.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: There should be so many follow up questions, with the
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: main one being what did he do before he joined OSS?
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Was he in naval intelligence? Was he in the military?
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: What did he do to merit joining the ranks of OSS?
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Was it this what was going on in this guy's
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: life before that, And it's really frustrating that Snopes doesn't
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: address that at all. None of the other fucking articles
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: you'll read about it address that part in any serious way.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: So since no one wanted to fucking bother, I did
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: some investigating into Roger Paul Craig, who is the guy
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: who is the creator of this game. New York Times
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: interviewed him at one point. The first thing I found
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: on a website called I think it's called Threefold or
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Fold three something like that, but it's an offshoot of
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: ancestry dot com. I found a military registration card from
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: nineteen forty for a guy named Roger Paul Craig, and
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: one of the interesting details on it, his wife is
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: listed as Missus Vivian gurn Craig. If you read the
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Snopes article, they talk about his wife. She's a big
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: part of this because in nineteen sixty seven, a military
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: historian also looked into this and he wrote this whole
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: article in the New York Times. And then the next day,
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: this woman claiming to be Roger Paul Craig's widow basically
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: contacted the New York Times and was like Uh, that's
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: not what that game was about. And her name in
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: that article is e shaw Ple. Meanwhile, the wife on
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: his registration Vivian gurn Craig. So clearly not the same people,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: except I found a gravestone listing or a Roger Paul
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: Craig on a aptly named website called findegrave dot com.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: If you look at the family members section, there is
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: one name listed spouse, Vivian an gerin Pole. So this
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: is the same guy. On his military registration it says
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: he was born in nineteen ten. On this website says
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: he was born in nineteen ten. He died during World
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: War Two, which that is also left out of the
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: Snopes article. I found the original article where they talked
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: to his widow and she says it she says he
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: died during World War two. Snopes doesn't tell you that part.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: So clearly this is the same person. And if that
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: military registration card is from nineteen this is the thicker
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: World War two. That means he was in the military
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: when he did this. So he was what going back
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: and forth from serving in the military and going to
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: his very prestigious office location that we'll talk about in
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: a second, and working on this game at the same time,
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: and during all of that, despite being so distracted trying
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: to get this game off the ground, he excels enough
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: that he gets to join the OSS when that fucking launches.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: That's not weird. It's not weird that he was in
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: the military when he did this and that never comes up.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he had to be employee of a month a
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: halftime their rank up and make a goddamn weird as
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: dice game a while, And.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: I do think it's weird that they don't mention that
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: part and that they just leave it at Oh, yeah,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: he joined the OSS at one point. It's like, man,
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: what was he doing before that, because he's clearly in
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: the military when this happened. Where I found all this
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: is not even remotely related to the conspiracy. This is
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: just pub records shit. So this isn't a believer making
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: all this shit up like it's out there. This is
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: the same guy that military registration card belongs to, the
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: person who was credited with placing these ads in the
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: New Yorker, who never mentions he's in the military when
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: interviewed about this, which I don't know. I think that's
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: I think that's weird.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: It's weird. Seems weird.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, especially if he was in naval intelligence, because
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: leading up the World War Two, they were kind of
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: all we had. We didn't have the CIA yet, we
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: didn't have OSS yet, we just had naval intelligence. They
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: were the ones who were boots on the ground doing
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: all the intelligence work for World War Two. And like,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: if this guy was naval intelligence, these fucking ads are
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: about Pearl Harbor. I don't fucking care what anyone says.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: These ads are goddamn about Pearl Harbor. If this guy
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: was naval intelligence, we know he was the military, so
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: it's not that big of elite, and we know he
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: joined in intelligence outfit at some point. Was the intelligence
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: when these ads got placed? I don't know. I don't know,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: but I do think it's unfortunate that Snopes never asked
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: any follow up questions after oh, oh he was CIA. Okay,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: well that's interesting.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: That is a hell of a detail to just leave
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: at the end there.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Snope people like, oh, CIA, I ain't getting
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: my door kicked in. I think that's the end of
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: the article.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Probably you included his registration card in here, but
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: I don't see the date of the registration.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, you would have to be on the website. It
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: has like additional details and it says date filed. I
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: believe it was October first, nineteen forty but I can gotcha, Like,
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: I'll put the link in here, but you have to pay.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: I think it's a free trial. I'm going to cancel
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: that shit, but also maybe not because it turned out
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: to be pretty goddamn handy.
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, how many more CIA conspiracies will you uncover
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: with this subscription?
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: One last really odd detail. John already touched on this
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: a little bit. Also on that military registration right at
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: the bottom place of employment or business, five hundred Fifth Avenue,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: New York, New York. If you look at the deadly
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: double instructions, that's also the address on the bottom of
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: the instructions page. So at the point this guy is
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: joining the military, he's also got an office at five
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: hundred Fifth Avenue, which is a highly prestigious building. It
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: was constructed around the same time as the Empire State Building.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: To this day it houses all sorts of huge companies corporations.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: The Japanese Consulate was in that building until nineteen thirty nine,
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: until right before he joins the military. The Austrian consulate
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: was in that building. And also this random face trying
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: to make a board game.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: Well his company, I mean the company he worked for.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: Did he work for the company or was he publishing
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: It's it's not clear.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I could see him being in the military, but
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: like you said, we're not at war yet, so I
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: could see him being in the military and still doing
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: his day job for this board game company. Maybe because
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: would you I don't know, because I don't know.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: He's got to keep that day job up, but also
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: excel enough at military intelligence that he gets to join
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: OS when that launched.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: People in and maybe halftime to work whole last stay job.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: I don't know, Fifth Avenue, No, no, not if not,
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: if he's like fully fully enlisted, I'm thinking like reserves.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: He was just bad with money. That's why he had
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: the start a fucking company because he that's.
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: Why he invented a dice game with money.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, I found I found that part weird also,
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: but that like, I know that's the right guy now
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: that Yeah, it.
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: Seems pretty it seems pretty conclusive. Yeah, like that's his
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: that's his wife for sure.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't know the fact that everyone who
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: debunks this just completely glosses over his military history is
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: weird to me because, for one thing, Snopes, I don't
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: know that the government doesn't sometimes reach out to Snopes
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: and be like, hey, we need you to write something
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: that is the CIA's whole fucking jam.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah that's what they do.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and they still do it to this day.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: They also have another article out there that I super
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: duper hate me and John did an episode about the
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: time HBO did this mock trial of James Earl Ray.
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: I had never heard of that.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: It's super weird.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: That sounds like a horrible idea. Yeah, oh it was.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: I mean it's pretty fucking compelling. He was found out, Okay.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: But what's interesting about that is there's also a Snopes
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: article about the time mlk's family sued the American government
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: because mlk's family absolutely does not think James Lay killed
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: Martin Luther King Junior. They have been adamant about that
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: for a long time. Correta Scott King, I think like
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: weeks after at best was like, the FBI killed my husband.
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: Obviously, I mean we know they were trying to They
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: sure were didn't Nixon pitch, like covering his steering wheel
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: with LSD or was that him specifically or is that
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: just a general thing that Nixon pitched to people he
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: wanted them to assassinate God, that's smart. Yeah you've never
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: read that, oh man, Yeah, I don't think so. I
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: can't remember where I read that, but I read that
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: like that was like an idea that Nixon kept pushing. Yeah,
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: his intelligence people.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: That's wild. Someone probably did it to him.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: That was great, right, It's not like a good time honestly.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, drive home much great.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: So this other Snopes article, it's about Mlka's family when
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: they filed this civil lawsuit against the government. They won
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: that lawsuit. Well shit, And the thing is what they
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: concluded in that lawsuit was that Lloyd Jowers, which is
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: a figure in the Martin Luther King Junior assassination, he
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: was a he owned a diner nearby, and he's been
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: mentioned in connection to it a bunch. What this lawsuit
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: concluded was that Lloydjowers, in conjunction with departments of the government,
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: conspired to assassinate Martin Luther King Junior.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: Wow, And they won.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: And they won. And this Snopes article goes so hard
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: in the paint trying to downplay that. One of the
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: things they point to is, well, it was a civil trial,
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: so the government didn't have to try that hard. It's like, okay, sure,
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: but they didn't, like, they didn't win.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: It's it's weird that they didn't try to win, because
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: that's you don't want that loss.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: In what Snopes is essentially saying is, oh, the government
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: let them win. We let you win. Like that what
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: they do that no idea. And the other thing Snopes
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: points to as if it's damning in some way is
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: that the jury awarded Mlka's family one hundred dollars. That's
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: because that's what they requested.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: About to say, it's what they asked for, right.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they wanted to make it clear they weren't doing it.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: For Yeah, that's the point. Yeah, Yeah, I get it,
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: to totally get it.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think they might have that might have
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: been a misstep.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: They definitely should have done it for money.
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, which maybe maybe that's why the if if the
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: government didn't try that hard, maybe that would be why
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: it's Okay, it's a hundred bucks, but again, you don't
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: want to lose this case.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Right, The US government famously not petty to take
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: any lawsuit. Seriously.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man, that's true. Yeah what am I talking about?
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: Government would burn my house down for one hundred dollars.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Well, saying Charles Inturn nephew to go be the lawyer.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: We don't care if we lose this one.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: And yeah, this Snopes article feels the same to me.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: It feels like the point is to super duper downplay
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: all of this. But we just with conspiracy theories, were
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: really critical of the people who pushed the theories. But
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: any asshole can debunk it and we'll be like, see debunked.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: That's what Snopes is doing. They're not really debunking that
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: this was some sort of intelligence operation. They're just taking
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: people's word for it. The guy who made this game
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: is at no point gonna be like, yeah, yeah, I
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: fucking I did it. I knew Pearl Harbor was gonna happen.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: I'm not gonna get in trouble, right, I'll be fine.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: Same with the wife. She's not gonna be like yeah, yeah,
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: like I didn't look into the wife enough. I wouldn't
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: be surprised if she is military intelligence of some sort.
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: Also never know, so it's my responsibility to make wild accusations. Yeah, yeah,
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: it's like I said, I yeah, I agree that there's
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: a lot.
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: Of things about this that are really weird and not
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: satisfactorily explained. But I still can't get past the main
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: hurdle of why the hell would you make a public
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: message about this, like because like, look, we're still talking
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: about it eighty years later, like you fucked up.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's like Adam say, all the time talking
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: about it, what's that gonna do? Is not like it's
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: gonna change anything. The government find out They admit this
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: stuff all the time, and it don't really is people
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: just so busy they're like, oh well.
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: Then why keep it a secret of all? Like I don't,
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know why you would put it in the newspaper,
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: why you would put it in an ad and not
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: just be like show you know, have like how they
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: normally do spy shit, Like they'd have people meet you
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: in person, they'd give you the information and then you
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: would destroy it or you know, or would be coded
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: in numbers. You would decode it, read the message and
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: then destroy it. I just don't I don't know why
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: you wouldn't use the spycraft or I guess the spycraft
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: that we already had. It was burgeoning at this point,
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: but still rather than a public message.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: How do you know this isn't part of the spycraft
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: that we had?
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: I don't because here's the thing you said, Well, they
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: fucked up.
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: It could be that, yeah, yes, could be.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: A lot of times people working in positions like this
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: think they're.
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: Like really sharp, they'll never figure this one out. So
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: like two weeks later people are writing The New Yorker
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: like what the fuck is this?
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah? And another example of that kind of on the
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: flip side though, when I did the Ace of Base
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: thing when I.
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: Was at Cracked Yamber.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: What got me on the trail of that is I
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: was watching a show about Nazi megastructures and they mentioned
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: that this one U boat base, because all of the
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: best pilots worked out of there, was called the Base
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: of Aces. And I was like, what what if Asa
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: Basse's name is a Nazi reference? Because they Asa Basse
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: very famously not spelled the way you would think. It's
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: not Bass, it's base, which why? And then when I
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: started fucking looking into it, that guy is an obvious Nazi,
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: and I think he thought he could slip a Nazi
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: reference in his band name and people wouldn't notice. And
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: people didn't notice until someone noticed.
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: Dia hiding a dog whistle though. I mean, all those
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: little trolls love to do that. That's a little bit
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: different to me than putting that we're gonna we're gonna
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: keep silent about an attack on America in a public message.
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: But I get what you're saying about the arrogance of it,
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: for sure. I get what you're saying about the arrogance
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: of it.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Was that one you always say that only got exposed
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: because they forgot to shred at the box or something
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: like that. Oh mklch that's yeah, mk ultr that's what
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: it is. They had, they had records of that. But
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: only reason we found out because somebody forgot to shred
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: a box.
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like misfiled or something. It was just
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: sitting there.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was put in the wrong. I think it
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: was put in like in with accounting files or something. Yeah,
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: not with the shred this if Watergate ever happens files
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: fair enough. Which interesting thing about the Office of Naval Intelligence.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: They also broke into someone's office because the president thought
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Democrats had damaging information on them. It's just that they
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: did it in nineteen thirty. This country has been the
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: same thing forever.
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's all the same guys and over again.
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah uh no, I mean, yeah, you got a point.
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: Have to concede that point. This is weird as shit.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: We're obviously not going to prove either way.
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: No, I did want to say that I did see
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: other versions of the Deadly Double Dice game, like in
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: different boxes, like in a rummy box, but no other
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: ones have that same version.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: I saw that one too, but if you scroll through
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: the pictures at the end, there's the same display box.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: Because I thought the same thing. I was like, wow,
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: why are these two different? Oh oh well, yeah, the
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: same packaging is there, just the way they present it
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: it looks way different because the Etsy listing doesn't. I
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: think everything is still in the box mostly or the
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: box isn't open or something.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: Oh I found it on this what It's Worth website
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: or so anyway.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw that one also, and it
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: if you click through the pictures, the packaging is there. Gotcha,
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: We're thinking of the same one. But yeah, I think
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: we're never going to prove this is true. Here's the
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: thing before we finish. I think the other reason you
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: put this in a magazine is if anyone asks any questions,
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: all the government has to do is say, nope, it's
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: a coincidence.
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: I got one more question, though, that's kind of been
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: bugging me. Who were they talking to with this message?
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: Like who involved would need such a cryptic message about
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: I don't know it just and how would they know
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: it's Hawaii unless they already knew.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, you got if the thing about having cracked
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: Japan's codes is true?
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: That's why Hawaii.
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I just don't know, Like I don't know it
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: just it's it's undeniably weird. The Yeah, that's I don't know.
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: It's just I still can't like the conspiracy itself. I'm buying,
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: but like the actual thing, like the ad, it still
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: doesn't make sense to me. It's like I still can't
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: quite get over that hurdle of like why would they
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: do it this way? And who would they be talking
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: to that they would need to reach in this manner.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: Well, uh, this kind of just occurred to me. But
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: what if this guy was actually in some capacity working
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: for Japan because the argument everyone makes is that this
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: was meant to alert Japanese Japanese in the United States.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: Remember I just mentioned this guy's office five hundred Fifth Avenue,
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: right up to the point he leaves to join the military.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: Japanese Consulate was in that same building they left in
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: nineteen thirty nine, so he did list his work address
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: as the building with the Japanese Consulate was, which would
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: also be a huge misstep if you're trying to be
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: a double agent. But yeah, I mean there was no
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: internet that could cross reference it with back then, so
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: who knows.
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. We have a tiny index card with
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: just right, not even a photograph on it, with just
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: writing that we had to use to confirm that this
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: this or this dude was in fact the same dude.
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, I don't know. This shit's weird.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: It is. It's weird, man, it is. I cannot deny.
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: It's weird as hell.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And the government pretty shady, so it's not for me.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: They've done done a lot of crazy stiff. They were
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: behind Malcolm X killing. They said, I think it's the
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: lawsuit going on right now that they were behind that
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: from the family.
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: And Malcolm X's family is asking for money, which fuck yeah,
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: They basically introduced crack it to America, So I don't know,
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I mean I didn't I definitely did that.
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And the government absolutely killed Malcolm X. There are
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: so many We did two episodes about that for one thing.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: Two of the people who were convicted have since been released,
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: and the third guy like, he had the gun when
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: the crowd tackled him, so we know he did it.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: But the FBI themselves have admitted they had ten FBI
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: agents in the room when Malcolm X was killed.
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: Damn seems like a lot.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Elijah Muhammad's right hand man in the Nation of
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: Islam was an FBI informant, okay. And also the building
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: it happened at regularly hosted black activist events, so you
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: won't be surprised to know it was fucking filthy with
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: police all the time. But on that day there were
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: only two police on the roof. There were no patrols,
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: there were no cops inside. There were no cops to
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: stop anything from happening that one day. Very weird. Yeah,
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: the government's shady. I wouldn't shy, Yeah, I do think
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: we knew Pearl Harbor was happening?
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: And yeah, you have any conspiracies any what's the big
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: conspiracies you believe in?
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: It's a man, let me think, man. I used to
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: really really buy into aliens. I don't know if I
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: still do. I haven't thought about it in a while.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: What do you mean, I do you don't believe that
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: they visited Earth? You don't believe?
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Like Roswell and stuff like that like that specifically,
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: like I believe aliens exist. It's like statistic statistically improbable
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: that they don't. Yeah, But like I used to like
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: really like the X Files. It's like I was really
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: in on that kind of stuff. I'm trying to think.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: I uh, one thing I always tell don't really have
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: any when it comes to conspiracy. Sure you believe some conspiracies.
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: I do, yeah, my mo, Yeah, I definitely do.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: Do you believe Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: No?
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: That's a conspiracy. Yeah, it's that fucking easy.
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia's involvement in nine to eleven, I think is
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: a pretty easy one also because for one thing, for
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: years and years and years after nine to eleven, there
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: were twenty five or so pages of the report that
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: were still classified, and the rumor like there's a USA
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: Today article oldest shit, that's like those pages are about
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia being involved in nine to eleven and they
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: finally declassified them. And guess what they are about a
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: Saudi intelligence agent moving nine to eleven hijackers into his
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: home when they moved to California.
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so yeah, I guess the Martin Luther King one.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: That's one that I definitely believe.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I believe a lot.
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: Well yeah, yeah, yeah, I was just trying to think
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: of like one that's like controversial. I was trying to
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: think of like a controversial one, like not all, not
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: everyone agrees with.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: As a skeptic. I'll tell you a conspiracy you should
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: look into is the rfk assassination.
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: There's one detail to that that I think does not
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: get talked about enough, which is that every witness says
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Sir Hans Sirhan was in front of Bobby Kennedy like
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: three or four feet firing those shots, the shot that
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: killed Kennedy, point blank range behind his ear Who fired
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: that shot?
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: That's weird, Yeah.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: That's super weird and that's the brain worms guy dead, right, Yeah.
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's also where you execute somebody. Yeah.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: And the security guard who was walked sucking him through
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: the kitchen was a hardcore right winger and LAPD, which
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: the LAPD is essentially military. They're bad times. Anyway, we're
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: rambling now, So hey, people at home, decide for yourself.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: I don't normally say that with conspiracies. Normally, I'm like, listen.
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're pretty normally like locked into a to a solution.
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, normally, And I don't believe every conspiracy, but I
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: normally like to end it with yes Sandy Hook happened,
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: or yes COVID is real. But in this case, I
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: don't know, use use your own judgment. I feel like
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: I've added some additional information to this.
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: Here's my big one. I think Godzilla is real.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: What that would be amazing?
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: Damn wouldn't it.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: Tom just pulls down a fucking shade behind him. That's
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: got the whole conspiracy.
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: My whole like, yeah, ground, I've got a slide show
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: prepared and it kind of goes with this.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: I just found out some that the this I can
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: tie you in the Simpsons to this somehow do you all.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: So when they dropped the two atomic bombs in Japan,
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: do you all know that know the nicknames for those two?
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Fat Man in the Little Boy?
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was on Reddit the other day there
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: was like a thread about jokes that you missed that
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: went over your head, and someone was talking about the
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: episode that takes place in Japan and Homer and Bart
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: walk off. They were like, oh, how much trouble could
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: a fat man in a Little Boy? Cause but explained
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: it to me because I didn't know it. I was like, wow,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: because you know, the Simpsons writers are a bunch of nerds.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, that was a deep cut.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: So I think that's our episode. We get it, John, Tom,
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: thank you both for thank you.
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: I agree.
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: We've talked about a lot of death and destruction today,
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: so this feels like the perfect time to plug some shit.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: I would like to mention that if you want to
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: keep getting bonus episodes after the year is over, you
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: should head over to Patreon dot com, slash on pops
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: or you don't pod dot supercast dot com, or with
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: Conspiracy Show. You can also subscribe right there on Spotify
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: for bonus episodes, but on Patreon and probably on Supercast.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna do like some some holiday specials, so it'll
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: be a little cheaper. I don't know what those are
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: gonna be yet. I haven't cracked Japan's code. They're deciding
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: for me. But subscribe to.
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: The Viti with my Enigma machine and I'll get that.
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: Subscribe to the New Yorker and you will find out
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: what those specials are gonna be. So yeah, go do that.
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: Go go get more bonus episodes, John, what do you
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: got to plug?
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: My YouTube channel is normal, I mean as usual. And
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: also I have a Patreon. I'm trying to get to
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: fifty thousand subs on YouTube and whatever you can support
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: on Patreon. I just dropped a new video and in December,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: I'm working on one about the most famous picture in
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: box and that sunny listing versus Ali having the way
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: biggest and people realize what the mafia.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: Oh shit?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Interesting? Uh? Tom, what do you got?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: The plub uh game to the unemployed? Uh patreon dot com
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: slash Gameplely Unemployed. That's the podcast and streaming network I
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: run with David bell our buddy from Cracked, and uh
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: we got Jeff May over there. He does shows and stuff.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: We got all sorts of fun stuff. Movie nights on Fridays.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: You can commission your own podcasts.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: Jeff.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: You know Jeff, Jeff, you've seen him around.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: Doesn't not ringing a bell, So yeah, check that.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: Out right, don't if you're a new subscriber, I should
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: we should say this for if you're a new subscriber,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: don't sign up for Patreon through Apple the Apple Store
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: taking it, because they'll take that, they'll take a big cut.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: Sign sign up through the website. If you're already signed up,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: you can still use it the app on your phone.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: It's not gonna charge any money. But if you're signing
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: up for the first time, do it on the website. Okay,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: that's it.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, don't sign up for mine through Apple either.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: I didn't even know you can hear it, And.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: It pissed me off because they know people people want
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: ease and want to do most people to do it
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: through the app, those bastards.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, God damn it, Apple, there's a conspiracy theory.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: I believe. Break your fucking phones on purpose.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: I started telling people the best option to support me
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: is just buying me a coffee if you like my video,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: because they take they take the least amount. You could
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: do it directly through the phone because ptreon is crazy
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: super chats on YouTube. Take out a bit cut.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had been thinking about coffee my iPhone. Conspiracy
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: is that when that thing was invented, it probably did
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: all the shit they knew do now. And Steve Jobs
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: was just like, all right, strip a bunch of that
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: shit away and we're just gonna add it gradually over
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: the years. No need to come out of the gates
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: doing everything we should do a.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: Bunch of many fun conspiracies that don't really have that
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: much meat to them, like my jay Leno is getting
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: sucked up by the mob conspiracy. I can't remember when
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: you won't hear what I was talking about that tom
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: or was that before?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, I just love the sound of that.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: Did you see Did you see him?
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: He claimed he filled on a sixty foot here only
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: one side of his face.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: We did, come, man? Did he get Joe Peshid? They
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: put his head in the vice?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: They said some he had some uncut gem ship. What
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: was that cheap ass hotel he talking about? He stayed
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: at uh or something.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the foul ja be staying at a Hampton in
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: Did he stiff a prostitute and get thrown down a hill?
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: What are you doing jesus?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we did cover the Stevie Wonder can see conspiracy.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: We've done something.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: I remember that one. Yeah that was fun. Yeah, like
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: a like a Goofy Low Steaks one.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll figure it out. Uh but hey, until then,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: that's our episode. John, say goodbye, so.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: You are next month? Wait?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: Tom, goodbye.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: I never know what to say, Tom, say goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, everybody,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: We love you. About at about another, about another, about another,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: about another, about another, about another, about about amatic, about
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: a later, about amatic, about