Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Matt Trewhella: The Duty Of Civil Magistrates To Stand In The Gap

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Matt Trewhella: The Duty Of Civil Magistrates To Stand In The Gap · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
• 0:10
  defending biblical Christianity.
• 0:13
  No topic off limits.
• 0:16
  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
• 0:20
  Hello friends, fasten your seat belts for this one.
• 0:24
  I pastor Matt Trewella back with us.
• 0:26
  You can get information on his church at mercyseat.net mercyseat Christian church and also missionaries
• 0:34
  to the preborn.com missionaries to the preborn.com will also mention his book.
• 0:41
  Because we'll be referring to that a little later over on Amazon.
• 0:45
  The doctrine of the lesser magistrates, the proper resistance to tyranny and a repudiation
• 0:52
  of unlimited obedience to civil government, very important topics to understand.
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  But first, let's bring him in and talk about some recent events.
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  Pastor Matt Trewella, welcome back to World View Matters, good to see you, brother.
• 1:04
  Good to be with you, David.
• 1:06
  Thank you.
• 1:07
  Yeah, you're most welcome.
• 1:08
  I appreciate your work, your voice, your church, you being active in the community, standing
• 1:14
  for life so much that we want to touch on today.
• 1:17
  But let's talk about the recent documentary that just came out.
• 1:21
  And this guys, you can find this over at children's health defense dot org, Vaxed three authorized
• 1:28
  to kill.
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  Matt, you had a showing or you sponsored a showing of the documentary at a local theater near
• 1:35
  you, a AMC theater, you said it was packed and you said less than 20% of the people attending
• 1:40
  were from your church.
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  That's really interesting.
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  It's a heartbreaking documentary.
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  Go ahead and tell us why you got behind this and your experience with doing the event.
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  Yeah, you're exactly right, absolutely heartbreaking.
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  And you know, your friends, Scott, our friends, Scott Shara is in the film.
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  And it was a story after story, so much documentation of facts.
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  And we saw that it was going to be playing at one theater in Milwaukee.
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  So the leadership in our church for like bad needs to be more than one.
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  And so we decided to contact them, see if we could sponsor a showing too, which is easy
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  enough to do.
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  You just contact them and they contact the theater and then you have to have a certain number
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  of tickets sold by a certain date prior to the airing.
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  So we were able to meet that deadline for the certain number that had to be sold.
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  And then it sold out completely and the place was packed.
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  And it was such a blessing in the heart to see so many people.
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  By the way, the other theater was completely sold out also.
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  So it was so encouraging to see so many people that were blessed and benefited by us showing
• 2:58
  this film.
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  And our church or congregation has spoken the pulpit, which I preach from.
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  I've spoken about this over the years since the pandemic all began back in 2020.
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  And so we wanted to get behind this film to get the information out to people, to encourage
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  people who have come to realize that was all bogus.
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  What was going on with their nonsense and evil that they are proliferating through the
• 3:28
  so-called COVID pandemic, but it reminded me also while we were sitting there, David,
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  why our church bought an oxygen machine because before going into these hospitals, under
• 3:42
  the guise of my actions at ADA or my actions at 91 and they had built up so much fear
• 3:48
  in people.
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  People were panic struck.
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  They would go in and then we put on these protocols that were meant to kill them and
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  they killed tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people through these protocols
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  that they were using to supposedly treat you for COVID.
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  So we began to, we bought this, had a doctor help us purchase it, we have a paramedic
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  in our church and people and a nurse and they were able to take it into people's homes
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  so they could hum the less they are rather than be taken to the hospital and be finished
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  off as so many were being killed there.
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  Pastor Matt, do you think more people are waking up?
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  I mean, stories are coming out, but if you're not watching or looking for the right media
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  outlets or sources like conservative or other news outlets other than the big three and the
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  cable networks, you're not going to hear this information that people have died.
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  People, I mean, there's myocarditis, there's neurological issues.
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  People are dying and have died and yet you don't hear them talking much about it and when
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  you do, when we do, we're censored.
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  Yeah, and more people are waking up, more people are realizing things and that's why movies
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  like these are documentaries like these are massively important, but make no mistake,
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  the vast majority of Americans still believe the entire narrative they were fed during
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  the COVID thing and since then, because the media and the government and the corporations
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  continue hand in hand and glove, continuing to push this narrative and they have the upper
• 5:27
  hand in that regard regarding the media availability that they have.
• 5:32
  Well, it was a campaign of fear and intimidation.
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  It was run by the globalists, the Marxists, the communists, those who want to take America down
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  and too many people bought into it and then as we learned the hard way, Matt, we surrendered
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  a lot of our freedoms.
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  It's interesting.
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  They saw how much they could get away with so we can do you think like I do that we can
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  expect another, whatever emergency, whether it's a pandemic or something of virus, something else,
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  do you think obviously I believe they're going to try something else, do you think so too?
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  I do and it'll be an emergency of some kind.
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  I don't know that it particularly will be what was done employed this last time with COVID,
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  but it'll be some form of emergency and they gin up the fear machine just like you said,
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  in order to stampede people.
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  They're not thinking correctly at that point in a full of fear and we see exactly,
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  I mean, these were things me and you read about because we're students of history
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  and to experience that in time and space and how human nature as a change and people
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  were just buffaloed by this evil was pretty astounding to live through.
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  Yeah, and I want to mention, by the way, your rumble channel over at defy tyrants
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  and your website defy tyrants is at dot com.
• 6:55
  Yes, defy tyrants dot com and if people want to hear the sermons, they can go to rumble
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  and our the sermons are under mercy seat or YouTube and it's under mercy seat church there.
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  So we're going to get to a couple of those.
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  I wanted to touch on just a few of those what happened earlier this year when you called out
• 7:13
  the Wisconsin State Assembly for legalizing abortion and something I wrote about in one of
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  the chapters of my book, Assault on the Image of God, I quoted your whole, when you when you
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  stood and talked, preached to those police in Waukeshire, Milwaukee area after the drag event
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  where they arrested Christians and let the drag, you know, sexualization go on.
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  I mean, that you just gave a course on how to teach on the doctor of lesser magistrates and
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  they all listened and we'll get to that if we have time.
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  But I want to go back to some events now that you're doing for missionaries to the preborn and
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  you've held a couple, you're doing your bold man, you're going on campuses.
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  I want to hear about this. Give me give us give our viewers a report on how Christian pro
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  lifers true pro lifers are committed enough to go and stand on college campuses where we know the
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  environment and the atmosphere there. How are these going? Yeah, and the atmosphere is getting
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  dimmer just so you know, David and so the need for Christians to go to these universities and to
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  engage the students and speak out as massively important. We started doing this in 1997 when I still
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  have more hair and was younger. So that's it. And it just continues on.
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  Young people have picked it up. I'm talking about young people from our congregation.
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  And so yeah, we just spent three days out at universities here in Wisconsin. The university
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  was Katsunashkosh on Monday, then Steven's point on Tuesday and then Milwaukee.
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  UW Milwaukee just yesterday and it caused no small stir. We had a crew of about 30 people each day.
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  And I mean, if people want to check it out, David, they can go to my Facebook wall because it's
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  all publicly published. And that is Matt Chuella. And you can see a bunch of pictures there and
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  get a little summary or synopsis of each day we were out there at the universities. This is massively
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  important because there these students are being taught that Christians, the worst thing that ever
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  happened to Western civilization, they have corrupted their morals and their minds. So it's
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  extremely important that we go out and proclaim the truth of God's law of His Word and of His gospel,
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  His great salvation. We need to make it known to the students and engage. And so yeah, and people
• 9:49
  are interested in joining with us in the future. They can contact us on that missionaries to the
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  pre-born. Missionaries to the pre-born.com missionaries to the pre-born.com. And boy, there's so much.
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  And I want you guys to go check out Matt's Facebook page. It's Matt. Chuella.7. That's what I have on
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  my search because you're we're friends on Facebook. So it's Matt Chuella 7, the number 7. But
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  great information there Matt. And I appreciate you doing that. I mean, it's the belly of the beast
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  when you talk about campuses now because of their hostility. Not just disagreement with the
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  biblical worldview, it's hostility. And a lot of it's based on lies. A lot of it's based on
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  deception and propaganda. Speak to that for a moment, please.
• 10:42
  Yeah, well, when you stand there and you talk with the students, they're being taught that
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  Christianity, as I said before, is the worst thing that ever happened to Western civilization.
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  So they're only taught a few key things, you know, like the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials.
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  They never talk about the failure of the secular state. You know, they'll talk about tens of
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  thousands that were quote unquote, killed under Christianity and ages past with things that
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  were clearly wrong. But they don't want to talk about the hundreds of millions that have been
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  butchered through communism, through the secular state, through socialist states, you know, like
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  China and Russia and on down the line. So it's extremely important to engage. We've had it
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  so many times where three hours into a conversation, two hours into a conversation,
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  a student will put out their hand to thank, thank you and say, that was the best defense of
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  Christianity I've ever heard in my life. You've given me so much to think about.
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  Praise God. And thank you. And so we have to de-goblinize ourselves. They are teaching hatred
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  towards Christ in Christianity, academia, at the university level. And there's plenty of bad
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  Christianity, you know, to caricature us in a very negative light. So you have to be patient,
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  perseverant, honest, and you need to love them. People can sense if you love them.
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  Yes. And yeah, you end up talking to some of these people in hour, two hours, three hours.
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  It's so encouraging. Well, let's face it. It's not just at the university level. It's K through 12.
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  What they're allowing within the government run school system, what they're they're
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  sexualizing these children at younger and younger ages. And I know you've preached about that.
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  And we'll talk a little bit more about that if we have time today. But I want to go to one of your
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  newsletters from missionaries to the pre-born. And by the way, friends, you can sign up for the
• 12:39
  newsletter. I want to talk about Christians being arrested and the intolerance of pro-life
• 12:48
  believers or pro-life protests. And you've got this right here. Lauren Hardy was sentenced to 57
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  months in prison. That's almost five years. Jonathan Darnell. And he's a good friend of yours.
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  He was sentenced to 34 months. John Hinshaw sentenced to 21 months. Will Goodman, 27 months.
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  Rosemary Garati, 27 months. Gene Marshall, 24 months. That's two years. And Joan Bell to 27 months.
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  Matt Trello, what did these people do? Yeah, they peacefully, prayerfully, nonviolently,
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  interpost at the door of an abortuary in order to protect pre-born children from a brutal death.
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  And for that, the Biden DOJ has charged them with crimes adding up into the decades, over 20 years
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  they were facing. And now they're spending years in prison for simply acting on behalf of their
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  pre-born neighbor. There's other trials besides theirs. When I wrote on that one, they were in DC.
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  But there's also the trial in Tennessee. And now there's been the trial also in Michigan.
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  One of the defendants there is 89 years old. She was actually as a child in a death camp when she
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  was a child. And here's how our government repays her for taking action. What she makes clear
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  is because she remembers that as a child and how she wished someone would have intervened for her.
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  So she feels duty bound to enter intervene for these pre-born babies.
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  Where was she at a death camp? Where was that?
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  I forget what exact death camp it was. It was one of the ones that was put together
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  subsequent to World War II itself, where there was recrimination upon the German people.
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  And a lot of people don't know about the death camps that these people were put in.
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  But it's all verifiable history.
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  Okay. Wow, friends, we're going to take a pause. We're with Pastor Matt Trewella,
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  that's so many different websites, mercyseat.net, also missionaries to thepreborn.com.
• 15:03
  And also, you can check out DeFi tyrants over on rumble. We'll be right back on World
• 15:09
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  Praise God. We're reaching places we never thought we would. But thank you guys so very much.
• 16:06
  Pastor Matt Trewella is with us. I want to quote what you put in your newsletter regarding
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  these people that were arrested. And you just simply Hebrews 13-3. Remember the prisoners as if
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  chained with them. Those who are mistreated since you yourselves are in the body.
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  Also, these are brothers and sisters in Christ. They were simply giving the preborn a voice,
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  standing up for life, the biblical world view, and life preborn life and mother's
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  wombs. And they're spending years in some cases in jail here in America.
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  Matt, let's go to the most sacred duty of a civil magistrate. We've talked a little bit about
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  this before on this podcast, but it's such an important topic that people need to be reminded of
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  what it's about and what does it look like when someone actually interposes, when someone stands
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  in the gap and holds someone who is above them accountable. You've got many, many examples.
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  And I'd just like to love for you to share the bullet points of the doctrine of the lesser
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  magistrate. Sure, the most sacred duty of the lesser authorities is the duty of interposition.
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  So when the higher ranking civil authority behaves lawlessly or immorally and
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  foments lawlessness or immorality through law, policy or court opinion, the duty of the lesser
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  authority in that situation, David, is not blive compliance. Rather, their duty is to stand in the gap,
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  to stand in opposition to the evil that's being fomented and simply say no. And if necessary,
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  to actively resist the lawlessness of the superior authority. So yeah, I wrote a book on this
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  called the doctrine of the lesser magistrate, sold over 150,000 copies now. I still travel around. I'll
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  be in South Carolina in Georgia next week, speaking to many different venues, both public and private,
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  because this is an important doctrine for our hour, because we have a lawless federal government.
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  We have many lawless state governments. And so it's the duty of the lesser authorities and
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  understand I'm talking de facto. Our founders never expected the general government,
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  or we call now the federal government to possess the powers that it does.
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  So it's the very duty of the states to defy them. It's the duty of counties to defy them.
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  It's the duty of counties at times to defy the state government. And we saw that when it came to
• 18:43
  COVID, we documented over 500 times that we found where the lesser authorities interposed
• 18:50
  against the lawlessness of the superior authority. And that was most often not the federal government,
• 18:56
  but their own state government. So this is an important doctrine. I go into the historical examples.
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  I go into the biblical foundation, have a great chapter on John Knox who wrote the foremost
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  treatise on the doctrine of the lesser magistrates that it's cited over 70 passage of scripture
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  to show that the doctrine is sound in the word of God. Extremely important doctrine. And it's
• 19:18
  something you want to get into the hands of your churchmen. It's something you want to get
• 19:22
  into the hands of your government officials. Well, I want to emphasize what you said early on.
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  They're the lawlessness or evil when they do it through law, policy or court opinion. Hello
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  state Supreme Court or Supreme Court of the United States. This someone's got to intervene.
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  Someone's got to stand in the gap and we haven't seen great examples of that.
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  So go ahead, Matt. Do you want to share anything before I go on? No, we haven't seen great
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  examples of that. And the reason for that, David, is because the legislative and executive branches
• 19:58
  love to hide behind the skirt of the courts and say then they could say, well, I disagree.
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  But the courts have ruled and all we can do is obey. And that's a lie. Our founders gave us a
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  true federalism, David. And in a true federalism, when it comes to civil government, you have
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  multiple levels of government, multiple branches at each level. Our founders wanted it that way
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  because they held to a biblical view of the nature man that he's wicked and in need of a savior,
• 20:26
  namely Jesus Christ. They want power to reside in one man or a small group of men like an oligarchy.
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  They wanted these multiple levels with multiple branches. So that if any one branch or branches
• 20:39
  began to play the tyrant and impune the Constitution, contradict the law of God, other branches would
• 20:47
  step in and interpose or check the evil that they're trying to accomplish. That's why our founders
• 20:54
  established the form of government that way. And it's a republic. It's not a democracy.
• 20:58
  Amen. Amen, brother. So let's go to give, here's a different example. Last year and I'm, I wrote
• 21:07
  about you and I quoted you in my book, Assault on the Image of God. There's a chapter attacks on
• 21:12
  Christians and churches escalating. And then the next chapter was attacks on pro-life community.
• 21:19
  But I want to just quote you because here's the setup. There was a pride in the park event.
• 21:26
  It was it in Watertown, Wakasha in a park there. Watertown. Okay, so public park and the music was
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  booming and the rainbow flags were flying and families had little children, young children there
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  when the the drag queens were dancing and sexualizing people. And there were four Christians
• 21:43
  arrested. And they were sharing the gospel. They're from your church. And Marcus Trader was one of
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  them. By the way, I love his t-shirt in the back when he was taken away in handcuffs on the
• 21:53
  on the back of his t-shirt. It said, I will stand for truth even if I stand alone.
• 21:58
  But I want to quote just part of what you shared after the event after what happened
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  which shouldn't have happened. The police just whoever they think they're marching orders from.
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  They arrested the good guys. Let the bad guys go on sexualized children. And you said,
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  this is nothing new when you look down through history. You'll notice that from time to time when
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  men make evil through law, that's what's happened here. Your mayor and the civil authorities
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  here are joining with evil. And those of you who are lesser magistrates, you carry the guns
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  and you're not just mere robots for the state. You have to answer to God also for what you do.
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  So when they do something contrary to his law and word, your duty is to not not to obey them,
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  but to tell them no. Let's pause right there. The quote goes on. I just the whole transcript,
• 22:52
  I pulled that off of your defy tyrants.com, Matt Chowell. And I appreciate that. That's a
• 22:58
  chorus right there on how to teach on this doctrine. And there were six or seven police officers.
• 23:04
  And they listened to the whole thing. And so first of all, thank you so much for doing that. But
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  what resulted from that? Did anything, were there any changes? Did they say anything to you? I know
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  four Christians were arrested, but the drag event went on. And this was a public park. So go ahead
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  and explain. Yeah, no, there was they said nothing. They said nothing while I spoke. They said
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  nothing afterwards. I've heard nothing through the grapevine sense. But it needed to be said,
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  because what they were doing was so wrong, their state law, which forbids the type of filth that
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  was being demonstrated in front of children. And it was sad to watch the parents join in and
• 23:43
  actually give dollar bills to their children to put it on the, you know, costumes and
• 23:50
  garter belts of these drag queens, just the spicable behavior. And showing the parents have lost
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  hold of what their God-given function and duty is in part, and as to be a protector to their
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  children. So they needed to be called out on it because they didn't uphold state law,
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  whether they gave the homosexuals a pass and allowed the filth to continue, and then arrested
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  the Christians. And it's the same thing when it comes to what's happening with these people that
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  we spoke of just before, you know, these rescuers, these pro-lifers, interposing on behalf of the
• 24:28
  preborn. Here you have, for example, in Wisconsin, 9404, which outlaws abortion. But guess what?
• 24:36
  They're murdering babies in our state. 9404 is still the law. It's statutory. It hasn't been
• 24:43
  repudiated even by a court at this point. And it declared not law. But all of the magistrates are
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  going along with the fiction that somehow 9404 no longer is in power in our state. It's wicked.
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  And the biggest problem is cowardice and a lack of bravery on behalf of the magistrates themselves.
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  Yes. And by the way, there's a video, friends, over at defyterrance.com.
• 25:13
  And on their rumble channel where Matt is calling out the Wisconsin State Assembly
• 25:18
  for legalizing abortion. It's a five-minute video. We don't have time to get into all that,
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  but you did that earlier this year, Matt. There it is. Thank you so much for speaking out on that.
• 25:27
  But let's talk briefly in the last. We just got two minutes left. It goes by so fast. But we also,
• 25:32
  you and I have an issue with compromise on behalf of the Republican Party. And you're not a profit.
• 25:41
  You're a man of God and a pastor. But you said, back in 2023, you said there would be an attempt
• 25:47
  to accommodate abortion and legalize homosexuality in the Republican Party. And here we are.
• 25:53
  Just your quick thoughts on whatever you can say to encourage our Bible-believing Christians
• 25:58
  that are watching. Yeah, no, not a profit. That's true. Simply, it was a matter of I interact with
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  the magistrates. I know how they think where they're at. And they want to compromise on those two
• 26:13
  issues. And we should not compromise at all on these matters. And I don't care what all you do
• 26:21
  in every other sphere of life regarding laws, policies, court opinions. If you aren't right about
• 26:29
  murder and about homosexuals and God's clear declaration of its condemnation through his law,
• 26:36
  it doesn't matter what all you do to try to help the economy. It's just going to keep going down
• 26:41
  hill. The need in America is for repentance. And it's extremely important that we as Christians
• 26:47
  demonstrate our repentance by no longer voting for men who openly impune the law of God regarding
• 26:53
  almost sex or regarding the murder of the innocent. Amen. I appreciate your speaking truth.
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  And your voice, Pastor Matt Trewella, again, friends at Mercy Seat Church, you said this is what
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  most magistrates have forgotten in America and throughout the West that they are ministers of God
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  first, not ministers of the state. We don't have that understanding, the proper understanding.
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  That's why we bring you on to talk about these things. And that's why we appreciate all the great
• 27:22
  work that you do, brother. And by the way, your family is growing. You're children, grandchildren,
• 27:28
  more grandchildren. It's like every other week it seems. And I'm a great grandparent now. Our first
• 27:34
  great grandchild was born about a month and a half ago. Praise God. Yeah, Matt, thank you for your
• 27:40
  time. Lord, we'll do this again in the near future. Thank you. Thank you, David. God bless you.
• 27:45
  All right, you too. God bless you, friends. Thanks for sharing the show. And as always,
• 27:49
  keep speaking the truth about things that matter.