Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Waterworld (1995) - Kevin Reynolds | Houselights #145

Transcript

Waterworld (1995) - Kevin Reynolds | Houselights #145 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the nerd Party. Hello, ever ready at home, and welcome
0:22
to Houselights House of Reynolds Kevin Reynolds. And today we are talking about nineteen
0:29
ninety five water World, which was widely reported to be one of the biggest
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financial box office flops of all time, and that is actually a miss gnomer,
0:43
thankfully. And it took some time, it took some doing, but
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this movie did make money. Not a lot of money, but it did
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make its budget back. And then a little sum on top, a little
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sum on top, little sum on top, just a little just enough to
0:59
skip for Hollywood to skim off the top. Yeah, well, you know,
1:03
yeah, yeah, the wonderful tax write down that water World was.
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And everybody that sat there and for years were like, they said, this
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was the biggest financial box office bomb. And then twenty years later, Disney
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says, hold my beer, and they released a slate that just takes a
1:18
bath. Good for them, good for them. Well, folks of you
1:22
who are listening, I am your co host, Tristan Riddell, and the
1:25
voice that you heard was none other than John Mill's aka Kessel Junkie. And
1:30
also joining us is Darren Moser, the one and only doctor sci Fi.
1:34
Now you guys, have you guys? Now? This is I'm leading tonight,
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And I just want to say that I like, I have huge,
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thick, coke bottle sized nostalgia filter glasses like that old guy with the ones
1:51
that's made up of other people's nostalgia glasses that has been cobbled together over his
1:55
face, cabbled together for years, put together, soldered together in between from
2:00
two different you know glasses. Yeah, that's me when looking at this film.
2:04
So I've seen this tons of times. I have a lot of emotional
2:06
connection to it. But I want to know when you guys first saw this.
2:10
But I'm gonna get my story out of the way real quick. There's
2:14
really no big story with me. It was really just my dad. I
2:19
don't I don't know. I don't know if he and my mom saw it
2:22
in the movie theater or not. But he got it on VHS, brought
2:25
it home, watched it, loved it and said, Tristan, you gotta
2:29
watch this, and he fast forward a few you know, a few throat
2:34
cuts and a few butts, and and then you know, that was great,
2:38
And we watched it all the time on VHS. We just watched like
2:42
that was a favorite. That was a go to for ours was to watch
2:45
water World together. And then when ABC came out with a TV version that
2:52
added forty minutes, like almost forty minutes to it, Like we didn't know
2:55
that when when watching it on TV. We just thought, oh, water
3:00
World's one, let's watch it. And then all of a sudden, we're
3:01
like, wait a second, we have this movie memorized. We've never seen
3:07
that scene before. How on earth does he have a CD player? Uh?
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But yes, So, like we were absolutely stoked and I was so
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excited when in twenty nineteen they came out with an official release of the Ulysses
3:22
Cut, which is based off of the TV cut, but just with unedited
3:28
stuff put in. So like you know, when you make it for TV,
3:30
you gotta cut for violence and sexuality and things like that. So that's
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what the TV That's what the Ulysses Cut basically is, is the TV cut,
3:38
but unedited, uncensored and everything like that. So this is much closer
3:42
to Kevin Reynolds's vision, or I should show you can crossing our's vision because
3:46
we actually walked off set on this off the vision. Just don't say which
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Kevin just Ken yeah, yeah, and so Ken Yeah. And I've loved
3:57
the TV cut. I've loved the Ulysses cut. That's what we're talking about
4:00
tonight. So, John, when when was the first time you saw this
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this movie, the theatrical cut. When was the first time you saw the
4:06
Ulysses cut. Well, the first time I saw the Ulysses cut was for
4:10
this theatrical cut. I saw in the movie theater. There wasn't any way
4:13
you were going to keep And I've often talked about a lot of my friends.
4:17
They'd go out, they'd have fun, they go to parties, they
4:19
do all that sort of stuff. But going to the movies was much cheaper.
4:23
So I would just go to the movies all the time. And all
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of the hype behind this I used to read, you know, like Premier
4:29
magazine and stuff like that, and I would just straight up I was so
4:33
stoked to see it because I said, Okay, if it's this big a
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disaster, I wish to be a witness to this. I want to be
4:42
able to see I saw the biggest box office bomb of all times. So
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I saw it, and I know the theater I saw it in. All
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I know the people that would have been with me, my friend Joey,
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who gets mentioned all the time here. He and I would have gone to
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see this together. And I, yeah, I don't. I don't have
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the same nostalgia glasses that you do, Tristan. Let's just put it that
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way. But at the same time, without tipping my hand about ulysses Cut,
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I can say that not just myself but my friends, as we walked
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out of the theater, if there had not been the hype about all of
5:20
the problems behind the scenes, we walked out and we were like, y,
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that's all right, Like we didn't hate it, we didn't love it.
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Were was like, yeah, okay, like there was nothing we were
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talking about, but we weren't mad that we spent the money on it.
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I think that's the thing. It's like the producers, of course, you
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know, blamed the movie's financial woes after the fact, after like during distribution,
5:46
on the bad press, because even before the movie was finished, you
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know, there was there was all these articles, all these TV stories about
5:55
how there's trouble in Paradise and Hawaii film set goes awry, and you know,
5:59
like because they had a crazy amount of problems. I mean, they
6:02
had a what was it? It was one hundred It was one hundred million
6:08
dollars budget that ballooned to one seventy five, then to two thirty and in
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nineteen ninety five a two hundred and thirty million dollars film. That's insane.
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That is even even today if a movie is two hundred thirty, we're like,
6:24
what are you doing with that money? And and so yeah, so
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like it. It was all blamed on bad press. Whether it's just like,
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oh, people aren't seeing it because they think it's going to be crap,
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and like you, like you said, John, like some people liked
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it, but most people are just like it's fine, yes, but to
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speak to the bad press, I was really thinking about this, and you
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know, we talked about Prince of Thieves and we talked about how Prince of
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Thieves it was a financial success. We may have our criticisms of it,
6:49
but people enjoyed it well enough. So Costner is coming off of Dances with
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Wolves Prince of Thieves JFK. He's a heavy hitter, and this is viewed
7:00
as Kevin Costner's big blank check dream project that he can come in on.
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I know he didn't write it. I know, he this isn't his dream
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project or anything like that. But basically people are waiting for the fall.
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People were just waiting for it. And frankly, if he's having problems like
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that with Kennevian and Reynolds, I guarantee you he's not making a lot of
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friends in Hollywood as he's going through these productions. And I mean the thing
7:30
that I kept thinking of watching this was Battlefield Earth. People were just waiting
7:35
for Travolta to screw up, and as soon as people heard the onset stories
7:40
from that, they were like, oh, yeah, here it comes.
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Yeah, it was the schadenfreude from somebody being at the peak of their career.
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I mean with Travolta, it was very much a comeback story like when
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he you know, like post pulp fiction because you know, of course,
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you know Saturay Night Fever and everything like that in Greece. But after that,
7:59
pulp fiction kind of vitalized career. But then by the time Battle Thrilled
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Earth came around, yeah, everybody was looking for an excuse to knock him
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down a peg. And yeah, with you're absolutely right with Kevin Costner,
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and also he was going through a wicked divorce during this time, and this
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was supposed to be I think a ninety day filming and it went up to
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one hundred and fifty seven. And he did like he was there for every
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single day, one hundred and fifty seven days, six days a week,
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you know, So he had one day one day off for those one hundred
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like per week for those one hundred and fifty seven days, and he was
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going through a divorce, and he invested twenty two million dollars of his own
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money into it, and he's having creative differences with the director and the director
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who walked off. It's like, oh, yeah, no, wonder the
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Mariner comes off as like a huge asshole. Yeah, he's working out some
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stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So Darren, how about you when it was
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the first time you saw the theatrical and then the Ulysses cut, Well,
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yeah, just like John, the Ulysses would have been this last weekend finding
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carving out three hours of my life to sit down and watch Water World.
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But yeah, as I'd mentioned, I've probably seen the stunt show more than
9:15
I've seen the actual movie at Universal Studios, Hollywood, which you know,
9:20
eventually all have watched probably the stunt show enough to have more minutes of that
9:24
than the actual theatrical. But theatrical would have been another Blockbuster rental. You
9:28
know, it's ninety five, so I wouldn't have been seeing this in theaters
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at that time. You know. That was like I would go see Toy
9:35
Story in ninety five. That's probably what I was watching, not water World.
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But yeah, but it's again another one of those. I think it
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might have just been the cover, just that intriguing cover of Costner's face and
9:50
water World. You know, I lived in the sci fi fantasy section of
9:56
Blockbuster because they always combined those two because it never enough and I'm like,
10:01
they're not the same. Why do you put them in the same banner.
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It's like, I'm young Darren had problems with that. But but no,
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it's but I'd probably only seen the theatrical once or twice. It is not
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I do not have those cobbled together nostalgia glasses, and so it Rewatching it
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with the Ulysses, it was almost like watching it for the first time because
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I you know, I more remember the main players because of the stunt show
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and seeing that recently than actually remembering the plot. Like I'm like, I
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know, there's a tolls, and I know there's the deacon and the mariner,
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and there's the girl and she's got the jar of dirt and I'm assuming
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they make it to dry land at the end. That that's all I kind
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of vaguely remembered, and then we went on an epic three hour journey to
10:48
tell that story. It's so funny because whenever water World comes up in conversation,
10:52
which is a funny thing to say out loud, but whenever it does,
10:56
you like or like, I'll bring it up or say like, oh,
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if you seen water World, like it's not as bad as people say
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it is. They'll say your opening statement, that's kind of a problem,
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right. But the thing is people will say, well, no, I
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haven't seen it, but I love the attraction at Universal Stadius that like nine
11:18
times out of ten, Like that's what happens. As people say like,
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oh, no, you know, but I've seen that plenty of times.
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That was a lot of fun. Yet you don't hear people saying, gosh,
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I haven't seen Raiders of the Lost Art, but that stunt show in
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Florida that is nobody says that. Nobody says everybody loves Raiders more than the
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stunt show. Yeah, the stunt shows. Okay, on that one too.
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But I will say watching this, I would give anything to see the
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original screenplay from nineteen eighty six. Oh my gosh, yes, written by
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Peter Raider. Yeah, Peter Raider. Peter Raider, Yeah, Peter Raider.
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This went through thirty six three six thirty six revisions. No, it's
12:07
not. But here's the thing though, is that like it's yeah, like
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he wrote it in eighty six because Roger Corman originally was going to direct this,
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and he says, he's like, you want to see, right,
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and he said he was talking with Raider. He says, it's like,
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if you can come up with a good Mad Max ripoff, literally those were
12:31
the words. He said, if you can come up with a good Mad
12:33
Max ripoff, I can get I think it was like a South African investor
12:37
something like that, like I can get a South African investor to make that
12:41
happen. And he wrote the script and like some of his friends read it
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and we're just like this is kind of this isn't very good. And then
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like he shelved it for a couple of years and then eighty nine Corman said,
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like what do you got And he shows it to him and he's like,
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I don't think I can do the script for for five million or less
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because that's all that he wanted to do. Oh man, it's like a
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it's not it's lake World. You're study Great Lakes, and that's all we
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can afford. Oh man, yeah, yeah. And so he's like,
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I'm like, okay, fine, And so like Rader did seven I don't
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know why, I just put up four of my fingers, but seven versions
13:24
himself. And then even while they were in production, while they were in
13:28
frigging production, Josh Whedon flies in and like tries to rewrite and punch up
13:35
the third act. Gosh, how insane is that? And also there's there's
13:39
a whole Slavers story like because you know how they talk about there like could
13:43
be smokers, could be slavers. You know, there was a whole Slaver
13:48
storyline that was cut because the set went underwater. Slavers set floated away or
13:56
it sank. It sank, it sank, you know what. Two things.
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One, according to legend, Steven Spielberg himself went to Reynolds and Costner
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and said, don't film on open water. I've been there twenty years ago.
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Don't do this to yourself. It's nothing but trouble. I think Cameron
14:16
might have even called them and said because he had just done the Abyss,
14:18
you know, and he's like, don't like, don't shoot an open why
14:22
like everybody says, Well, Reynolds went to Reynolds went to Spielberg and he
14:28
said, he's like, he's like, he's like, what, He's like,
14:30
you you did Jaws? Like what do I do here? Man?
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And it's that's exactly That's exactly what he said. He said, He's like,
14:35
because the Jaws set balloon to one hundred and fifty days, and what
14:41
what happened to water World? It ballooned to one hundred and fifty seven days.
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I also find it so so weird. I struggled for the right word,
14:50
but I find it so weird that a film that is positioned as a
14:56
warning about, you know, protect the environment and environmental damage. As I
15:03
watched the film, all I could do was sit there in the back of
15:07
my head and say, this film did more damage to the environment than I
15:09
will in my entire lifetime. It was just baffling to me because I just
15:16
wow, it's like that Armageddon scene when he's on the oil rig and all
15:20
the protesters are on this massive ship protesting the old rig. He's like,
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do you know how much diesel that tanker uses? Yep, yep, yep.
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It's but I'm like all the explosions and the stuff flying around, and
15:35
you see set pieces going, and I'm I'm sitting there thinking, Wow,
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there's no way they reclaimed all of that after it hit the water. That's
15:41
an impossible like an extra fleet of ships with like skimmer nets and they pull
15:45
it all back. No, right, they just guys like not not even
15:50
like the physical material that was that was used or left in the water,
15:56
not even that, but just the amount of gasoline, diesel, and and
16:00
it's just everything like that. But then again, you know, I feel
16:03
I think the Hawaiian economy got like a thirty million dollar boost because they were
16:07
the only people they could get steal from, and people were gouging them like
16:11
crazy because they were the only people. They were the only business in town
16:15
that gets tell them stuff, would you not? They shot this off the
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coast of Hawaii. They shot it in a couple different places, but mainly
16:23
off the coast of Hawaii, off I mean, we all recognized Hawaii from
16:26
the end shots of dry land like that, like we're back to land in
16:30
Jurassic Park, it's we all know that valley. It's very recognizable. Well,
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I logistically this is a film where the one thing I'll give it credit
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for is being so ambitious, because this is something where I look at it
16:48
and especially you know, visiting the Ulysses cut. Now, I think of
16:52
the strides made in technology up to this point and water were happens. If
17:00
it's an idea today, this is a movie where you can just get a
17:04
tank and you have somebody there and you just do set extensions. As far
17:08
as second set extensions, set extensions, it's so freaking easy to do set.
17:15
I can do it on my own personal computer and make it look like
17:19
a two hundred thirty million dollar movie. But even back then, like I
17:25
maybe this is a testament to how it didn't fully hold my attention with the
17:29
story all the time. But I'm looking at the A toll and I remember
17:32
the stories at the time about the A toll was built and they would tow
17:34
it so that they could get the lighting. They would actually have these things
17:37
where they would tow it around and everything. And I sit there and I'm
17:40
thinking from a planning standpoint, as like a production manager or something. I
17:44
think to myself, well, first and foremost doesn't need to be on the
17:45
open water. Secondly, let's say you want to build it, like I'm
17:49
sitting there like planning out. I'm like, well, okay, you just
17:52
go right off shore, you get you know, the right amount of stuff,
17:53
and you build three turrets that look exactly the same and you'd get your
17:59
shot. Sense's like, oh the light change, okay, so we'll move
18:00
over here. So we'll move over here so you can keep filming through the
18:03
day without having to tow the thing around and you're not on it. But
18:08
again, that's not what the movie is about. The movie is about the
18:11
realism. You got to see every scent up there on screen. I will
18:15
say, that's That's what I was just gonna say, is that. But
18:18
you see it all on on screen, like yes, forth budget, you
18:23
see every scent like you're like and again, and I think that that is
18:29
again like you're saying, yeah, you could make this movie in a in
18:32
a soup can like you know nowadays, for like a fraction of the budget.
18:37
But yeah, there's something about Okay, this shot of a bunch of
18:41
smokers with snorkels and their jet skis are under the water, like they actually
18:45
did that. This shot of the atoll like that they're running into they actually
18:49
did. Like everything is practical, I mean except for maybe a handful of
18:55
model shots with the supertanker because that was just crazy. But like the besides
19:00
that, it's all real. I mean just looking at the Mariners catamaran,
19:04
like that set piece, do you feel the money because it is literally doing
19:08
the things it's putting up then down the sale. It's like that thing must
19:14
have been a bear to maintain and to shoot on and to use. Well,
19:19
they had two they built two of them, and I think they're called
19:22
make Trimarans trimaran, Yeah, and they built two of them. One that
19:29
can actually race like, one that was really fast that they that they used
19:33
for wide shots. And then they had one with all the bells and whistles
19:37
that felt lived in and that like turn into the you know, the the
19:41
air not the air the windmill, like the spinny windmill part and yeah,
19:45
I think it all that is called like an egg thing or something like that.
19:49
And Kevin cost apparently sailed that for three weeks before production so that he
19:55
could knew what he used to it and like have it feel like a live
20:00
didn't feel, so he could get used to the rigging and everything like that,
20:02
which I think is pretty cool. And that's always like I remember when
20:06
I remember when my dad showed me this movie. He was he started,
20:08
he started. I was sitting next to him, and he started hitting me
20:11
on the shoulder. He's like, oh, look at his boat. Look
20:12
at his boat. Look at his boat. You know. It's it's interesting
20:18
because all of that stuff is practical. And I agree with you. If
20:23
you're going to do something practical, build the trimeran film that on the open
20:26
water. Yeah, it's the rest of it that you didn't need to do,
20:30
Like it's a self inflicted wound in so many ways. A giant parking
20:33
lot, build a brim around it, build the a toll on it,
20:37
and then flood the parking lot to like a foot of water and diet and
20:41
then you're good. I mean, I I don't know what that would look
20:45
like, but I could guess. You know. But but but cg by
20:48
this point is advanced enough. Think of what Cameron did with Titanic. He
20:52
built the set in the freaking desert and then digitally added the water around it.
20:57
And it's advanced enough by that point, and audiences are not as they're
21:07
not as critical of CG. You know, I mean even today, I
21:10
think as as some of us are. But overall, back then, if
21:15
you just subbed in the water, nobody would have cared. Nobody would have
21:19
really noticed. Nobody's sitting there like looking at in the theater, looking at
21:22
it. They just want to be transported somewhere else. I mean, the
21:27
thing that's baffling to me about the budget ballooning and all of these sorts of
21:32
things. And Okay, I can see every scent up there. But at
21:36
the same time, how many productions have we heard about where a studio is
21:41
sitting there and they see the costs start going exponential and the bean the bean
21:47
counters sit there and there's like no pulling the plug. We're done, get
21:49
out now, Like somebody, is it just Costner's name that keeps it going?
21:56
Is that? Its good question? It has to be right, like
22:00
it has to be like twenty two million of his own money. It has
22:03
to be you know, him making handshake deals with multiple production companies. And
22:10
I think that's the thing, is that like you're not dealing with the distributors
22:12
at this point, you're just dealing with production companies. And when you are
22:15
a producer yourself and you have the kind of weight and juice that Costner does
22:22
at this time, I think it's kind of the situation of like, oh,
22:26
well we just need a little bit more. Okay, that's fine,
22:29
Well we just need a little bit more. Okay, but no more after
22:30
that. Okay, well we need a little bit more, we'll crap.
22:33
I mean, if we don't give you more, we're gonna waste what we
22:37
already spent. Kind of deal. True, So I feel like it was.
22:40
It was one of those boiling frog deals. Yeah, And also like
22:44
it's such a specialized thing, meaning Okay, you're halfway through production, and
22:51
it's like you have that sunk cost of like, okay, well we've spent
22:55
a lot of money. Yes, it's going to take more to finish it,
22:57
but if we stop, it's literally all down the drain, Like there
23:00
is nothing, like we can't reuse the props or that. It like it
23:04
is pretty much all for this. Yeah, you can't sell the footage for
23:08
some other use because it's not generic whatsoever. Now, So, and I
23:15
want to ask you guys, now that we have this is the second Kevin
23:19
Reynold, Kevin Reynolds film that we're talking about, and this was actually something
23:23
that I was looking forward to talking about. Was, you know, now
23:26
that we've seen Robinhood Prince of Thieves, and now that we've seen water World,
23:29
where do you see Reynolds in this? Because to me, these two
23:33
films have a very similar visual aesthetic, which is a weird thing to say,
23:38
because you know, one was in Sherwood forest the other one was out
23:41
in open water. But for like, just the the the overall language of
23:48
the cinematography, the the editing, the filming, the production design, it
23:53
all felt very practical, very real, very lived in and the actions felt
24:00
like the energy behind the action scenes felt very similar to me. So,
24:04
John, where do you see Reynolds in this? I think that there are
24:12
shots that feel like Robin Hood. There are certain ways the cameras placed,
24:19
like super close to somebody, for some distortion in how it looks. When
24:25
when Dennis Hopper talks, the camera sometimes takes he gets sort of that Sheriff
24:30
of Nottingham treatment. In terms of where the camera is placed in those sorts
24:33
of things. With Hopper, I see a director who's letting his main villain
24:38
indulge that slightly comedic side, even though he's a monster, and have some
24:42
of that funny stuff happening. And the actual lighting when for instance, he's
24:48
sitting there and they're they're fitting the fake eye and everything, you get this
24:52
vibe again of Sheriff of Nottingham surrounded by his cronies in his little in his
24:57
little fiefdom. There's very much that sort of vibe. There are other shots
25:02
where I would struggle to find Reynolds at all, most likely because he walks
25:07
off set, but also I think that there are looking here at the Ulysses
25:11
cut. There are definitely shots where I look at it and it looks like
25:15
quasi finished effects sort of thing. But aside from that, I don't get
25:22
the sense of Reynolds being a VFX kind of guy. And that might speak
25:27
to why it's so quote unquote practical, is because this is not we haven't
25:33
had the full transition over. Cameron and everybody are leading in. Spielberg and
25:38
everybody are leading the way with digital effects and everything like that. But he
25:41
still seems old school enough that his directing style, when you see a composite
25:48
shot, that's where I really lose him. And when you see but I
25:52
mean, you know, the Ulysses cut when they're yeah, anyway, we'll
25:56
get to that. So I do see aspects of him, but I really
26:00
where I see him most strongly represented is with all of the Dennis Hopper stuff.
26:08
That's where I feel like Reynolds was there, present and happy to be
26:11
doing his job. That's interesting. That's interesting, Darren. Do you have
26:15
anything to add to that? Yeah, I see. I feel a lot
26:21
more connection with the time we spend with Mariner. I feel like compared to
26:27
Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, Like obviously Robin Hood's the main character, but
26:32
it gets kind of muddled where there's a lot going on. We're learning about
26:37
made Marrin, we're learning about the Merryman. We learned about the Merryman almost
26:40
separate from you know, Robin, and then he kind of gets interjected into
26:45
that world. And I feel like the ratio of shots and time invested is
26:53
better balanced in this than in Robin Hood. Like the times we're spending on
26:59
the Trimer and with Mariner even the beginning where like he's coming into the atoll.
27:04
It's like if we spent like half the movie at the atoll learning about
27:08
all the individual people, like, we don't do that. They're just in
27:12
there enough, we know just enough about this world to keep the plot moving.
27:17
And then we're back on the trymeran, you know, versus So I
27:22
look at how Robin and versa thieves was trying to create this new legend of
27:26
Robin as you know, basically a war veteran, you know, coming back
27:30
from the Crusades, and he's interjected and then it falls into the legend we
27:33
all know with this one. I really liked the time we spent with Costner,
27:38
Like I we were joking about like how like you know, yeah,
27:41
he's a bit of a jerk, but I really feel that I feel this
27:45
is a man who has been you know, ostracized from humanity. This is
27:51
a man who you know, I got more of a vibe from the shots
27:56
and the and the story that was being told when we were really focusing on
28:00
Costner about what water World is like the whole you you know, you barter
28:07
if you see someone on the shoreline, you uh, you know, just
28:11
how a man's word is is a bond to because there is no there's no
28:17
cops, there's no you know, justice system. So you have this trading
28:21
you have and so you see Mariner in this world and he is kind of
28:26
living like a king, you know, kind of like Robin was, where
28:29
he's got a really good ship, he's able to get things, he's able
28:33
to trade well, and yeah, kind of this is the day, like
28:36
the worst day of his life, where it all goes sideways and he loses
28:38
everything. But I feel like, especially the times when it's just the women
28:45
on the boat with him, like we're really I like the fact that he
28:48
is a jerk and he's gruff and he doesn't change for a while. It
28:52
takes a while for him to really accept them and to uproot his I'm just
28:57
going about my day doing what I'm going to do. You are ballast to
29:02
me, you know. I feel like that was portrayed really well. So
29:06
I would attribute some of that to Kevin h not constaner Terrenalds. Whereas again
29:11
I see that mirroring in Prince of Thieves, and I think it's done even
29:17
better. So I feel like he's kind of grown in that as as a
29:21
director. That's how it came like to me. Now again, I don't
29:23
know if that is all extra shots added to the Ulysses cut, but even
29:29
even if not, there's still obviously a lot of that. It's not like
29:33
they took the entire cat try and rand part out. You know, that
29:36
would have worked, but no, I think with the with the theatrical cut,
29:41
it's probably more accurate with what you're saying than the Ulysses cut, because
29:45
with with the Ulysses cut, we actually see more of the Atol population just
29:52
a little just a little bit more Like there's the meeting where they're all together
29:56
like at night, and they're all around the table and they're talking about what
30:00
to do with the mariner and what what is this jazzer's size equipment? It's
30:04
for the veriest torture. I left at that because I'm like, we all
30:07
know what that is. But it's such a stupid joke, but it's makes
30:12
it makes you laugh that that wasn't in the theatrical But you're you're absolutely right,
30:19
Darren, like this this this moves and even though you know, like
30:23
it's a three hour version, it still moves you like it moves along.
30:27
I don't feel like there's too much wasted space. There's not. There's not
30:30
too much wasted time, And especially with theatrical cut, you know, like
30:36
the theatrical cut really moves along. And there was obviously a business decision because
30:41
like, holy crap, we've ballooned our our our budget to two thirty million.
30:47
We're only going to make half that back, you know, with with
30:51
hope into theaters. That's what it comes down exactly. It comes down to
30:56
how many showings can you play in a day? And if they released a
31:00
three hour cut, they would have been no pun intended, dead in the
31:04
water, the water more so than what they were. And and so it's
31:10
a straight business decision. So it's interesting with this film with the difference between
31:17
the theatrical and the and the Ulysses cut, because forty minutes is a big
31:22
deal. Like there's so many times you see a director's cut and they add
31:23
like three f words and they're like, this is my cut, or you
31:29
know, you look at Ridley Scott, the father of the director cut,
31:32
and you see something like Kingdom of Heaven that has that much time at it
31:37
in and it's a complete change of film, Like it's a completely different film
31:40
the Kingdom of Heaven. The director's cut is very different the Ulysses collect the
31:45
Abyss where it's the third act is like, you have a completely different third
31:51
act. Yeah, with the Ulysses cut this, even though it's forty minutes
31:56
at it, it doesn't feel it's like here and there, like it's just
31:59
diffrench out. Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's just kind of stretching it
32:02
out. It's it's it's making things breathe. It's it's allowing you to have
32:07
more character motivation, a little bit more discovery in the characters and their situations
32:10
or relationships. But it doesn't ultimately change the film like Kingdom of Heaven or
32:15
the Abyss am I alone in that? Do you guys think that I know
32:20
that you've really only had one exposure to Ulysses cut, but what did you
32:23
think about the differences between theatrical and Ulysses if you can speak on it there.
32:30
I mean, there are things I distinctly remember theatrical and there are things
32:36
that I picked up on as extended. I don't think that there's any big
32:42
moment where I'm sitting there saying can we please move this along? With the
32:45
Ulysses cut no, I will give you that point. The only thing that
32:51
sort of dragged from my perspective was the exploration of the city underwater, where
32:58
I don't know whether that was a Ulyss He's cut special or whether that my
33:01
memory tells me that that was. Man Okay, that was theatrical. I
33:06
probably disliked it in the theatrical as well. It's been long enough, I
33:09
have to admit, Okay, I love that section because I think it's a
33:15
great exploration of a I mean of a post apocalyptic film storytelling. It's great
33:22
visual storytelling. It's really cool to like when he when he when he puts
33:24
his hand in the sand and then like, let's it drop in the water.
33:29
That's him saying this is where I get my dirt. This is all
33:31
you're gonna get of dry Land. Like, I love that visual I love
33:35
I love everything about it. But you're absolutely right. It halts the movie
33:39
dead. I think at the very least, though, if I were to
33:45
give it a positive, it it hints that it's not just the polar ice
33:47
caps melting that caused everything that, like maybe the land was wrecked in a
33:52
nuclear war. You know, the typical sort of thing has to be something
33:54
else, because like when like the opening announcers is the polar ice caps have
34:00
melted, which you know, we get that great visual of the Universal logo
34:05
turning into the into the the polar ice caps melting. That's an old timer
34:09
that that that's that's one for the ages. The water level would raise a
34:14
couple hundred feet, which is disastrous, but not civilization ending disastrous. Yes,
34:21
it's disastrous, and Lex Luthor can sell you know, Otisburg, But
34:24
I mean this literally was what happened in that Deep Space nine episode where they're
34:29
on the Holidack and like Avery Brooks is playing the bad villain and it melts.
34:35
It causes the sea level to rise enough that literally all that's left is
34:38
an island of Everest. And it's like that would never happen, Like that
34:42
wouldn't happen. And I think like they asked that. They asked the screenwriter.
34:47
You're like, did you did you know about this? He's like,
34:50
oh, yeah, I knew about it. He's like, so, so
34:52
what It's like, why why did you say? It's like this is interesting?
34:54
This is more interesting this way, right. It's like right, there's
34:59
many dry in particular places on this island, but we don't know where they
35:02
are. The Midwest is totally cool, but John, You're right there,
35:07
like has to be something else there. And I think behind the scenes material
35:12
put the year as twenty five. Yeah, which I'm kind of glad was
35:15
not in the opening because I just read that and I was like, that
35:21
breaks it for me, because there's no way society and memory and culture and
35:25
everything that we see in this would survive several hundred years. There's no way
35:31
without a without a land based infrastructure. It's like this must have happened within
35:37
one, maybe two generations if they if they had, look, I mean
35:43
it's now we're in rewriting territory. But like you could alleviate by that by
35:46
saying, like, you know, it happened in such a way because they
35:50
say there were a lot more A Tolls and stuff like that. You could
35:52
say, oh, well, you know, maybe the original A Tolls had
35:54
the skyscraper tops and stuff like that. Blah blah blah blah whatever, kinever
35:59
happening. That's true, right, But you know, while it doesn't while
36:06
the three hours doesn't hurt, it doesn't help. If that makes sense,
36:10
is this is a movie where Honestly, I think it could be less than
36:20
two hours with a judicious cut and still function pretty well and just get to
36:27
the point and move fast. For example, you know Dennis Hopper slowly driving
36:35
the car through the tanker to make a point, all of that sort of
36:38
stuff. But yeah, I mean, I guess it's sort of a push,
36:42
is what I'm saying. Like, is, I don't think that there
36:45
is a perfect cut of this movie in existence, and so I might as
36:47
well see more of it just so that I can give it as fair shake
36:51
as possible. That's yeah, that's funny because I think I watched the Flash
36:57
Movie not too long ago, and there is a good movie in there if
37:04
you find a good editor, a brave editor who can say screw you DC,
37:09
screw you director, screw you everybody else, and like, there's there's
37:15
something in there that can be carved away, that can be chiseled away to
37:19
be a good movie. This is not one of those. Ye, I
37:23
totally understand what you're saying, John, I totally understand what you're saying.
37:27
Because to hearken back to Kingdom of Heaven, like I will never watch the
37:31
theatrical cut again of Kingdom of Heaven, I will only ever watch the director's
37:36
cut, like that is the movie that's there. With What a World the
37:39
theatrical I get the same feeling with the theatrical cut that I do with the
37:44
Ulysses cut. No, I really like the movie. I like, I
37:47
really like it, and I have a good time watching it. I rewatch
37:51
it a lot, and I choose it Ulysses cut because I like it and
37:55
I want more of it. But the feeling that I get I get from
38:00
both. So I totally absolutely understand what you're saying in that regard. Now,
38:06
we've talked a lot about about the behind the scenes, about the production
38:12
value, about the pacing, and the story itself. We haven't really talked
38:15
about the performances. Now. We talked about Kevin Costner not showing up for
38:22
Robin Hood with this film. We talked about all the crap that was going
38:24
on behind the scenes and in his personal life. Darren, do you feel
38:30
like Kevin Costner showed up for Mariner? Do you think he portrayed him in
38:32
the best possible light? What do you think? What do you think of
38:37
Costner's performance here? I mean it is kind of an apples and oranges thing.
38:43
Because one is the well known legend of Robin Hood and the other is
38:47
Waterworld. So you can kind of do whatever you need to tell this story,
38:53
you know, and I wouldn't have no idea. Like I've said before,
38:57
though, I really liked all the segments with him that were the time.
39:01
I think every moment spent with Costner is a moment well invested when he's
39:07
really showing us what like his motivation for why he's acting like he's acting like
39:13
there's I never feel like, oh man, he should be nicer, Oh
39:15
like why doesn't he help them sooner? It's like, no, he has
39:19
to get there because he it is a mad max you know on the water
39:23
use the strong survive, and you really have to. You know, they
39:29
are deadweight ballast to him at the very beginning, Like I could really see
39:32
him be like, yeah, I'm just going to toss you in the water.
39:35
I'm like, yeah, that might actually be a good idea because when
39:37
you're literally counting drops of water to survive, like they are in a survival
39:43
mode. But no, I think he did a great job. If I
39:46
had to compare it to Robin Hood, yeah, I think he's bringing it
39:50
more. It's definitely a more with less as far as speaking, like the
39:57
Mariner is the kind of character that he is looking at you or what he
40:00
does or doesn't say is way more impactful than like the kid talks more than
40:05
he does probably this entire movie, Like She's probably get more lines of dialogue.
40:08
But that's not bad, Like he needs to be that. You know,
40:14
it's like Man Max again. You know, Man Max isn't chattering off
40:17
at the mouth through his movie. He is speaking exactly when it needs to
40:22
to get you to do what you need to do so you don't die.
40:25
And the Mariner is very much the same, even when he softens at the
40:30
end and you know he's going back for the girl and all that. So
40:34
yeah, I think Kevin, Kevin brought it. John. I want to
40:39
hear your take on Dennis Hopper as Deacon, you know, okay, okay,
40:46
yeah, good. I'm glad I'm talking to you because something like I
40:50
see some copied his hairstyle. It's great. Hey, you know, a
40:52
good style is a good style. Come on, man, you gotta you
40:55
know some people might see this as a mustache twirler, but I feel like,
41:00
you know, and Darren, you talked about this like, this is
41:01
very much in the vein of not you know, this is this is Ellen
41:06
Rickman chewing the chewing up the scenery and all of us loving it because of
41:10
it. You know, Didn's Hopper find that balance? You know? Was
41:15
it over the top? You know? Was it you know? What was
41:17
it to you? Like when you saw this, it was over the top,
41:21
and it was what the film needed. This film needed a really magnetic
41:24
bad guy, a guy that you can boo and hiss at but at the
41:28
same time chuckle that because he's a fanatic. And it's I think it's so
41:35
important to have a very clear distinction drawn between the two societies we encounter.
41:42
Yeah, the people in the eight toll and yes, they're frightened and they're
41:45
hungry, and they're not awfu. They're not awesome people, but they're not
41:49
necessarily awful people. You understand why they're so afraid of outsiders and all that
41:52
sort of thing. And then you have that just over the top bravado type
41:57
of thing that really I mean, yeah, it's clumsily in place, just
42:05
to serve as the metaphor for these are the descendants of the men who destroyed
42:09
the world sort of thing. But at the same time, it's just fun
42:15
to watch him because he's not He's not an evil villain in the sense that
42:21
he knows he shouldn't be this way. He's an evil villain because he doesn't.
42:27
He's incapable of seeing the world differently, and that makes him not at
42:31
all pitiable or sympathetic, and it doesn't make you want to try to understand
42:36
him. You just understand he's a hopeless case. There's nothing you can do
42:40
to save this guy, and so you're just along for the ride. The
42:45
only moment that I really hate with him in the entire film is nobody knows
42:53
the name of the captain of the Exxon Valdis anymore. But it's feature very,
43:00
very prominently in this that's Saint Joe that he's talking to. That's the
43:04
captain of the Exxon Valdis, which was an oil tanker which spilled a tonne
43:07
of oil because he was drunk. Futuruma had a great episode referencing this,
43:12
but he was yes, oh those fools, But so he's featured very prominently.
43:20
That is a completely lost reference. In the nineties, everybody is uncomfortably
43:22
going, oh yeah x X Valdis and it just it's just a joke that
43:29
doesn't land, that doesn't age at all, because he talks of the painting.
43:32
I think, you know, I'm talking to the captain of the Xon
43:36
Valdis. I knew, but like it was Yeah in the film, though,
43:43
does it come across at all who that is? Yeah, because they
43:46
like they show you, like like when it when it's sinking it says x
43:52
Valds. No, I understand that part. But in terms of a cultural
43:55
reference, you have to be of a certain age to even under stand what
44:00
the Exxon Valdez was. If I showed this movie to my kids, that's
44:04
ten minutes of not ten minutes. It's it's extra explanation at the end of
44:07
the movie, saying, Okay, well, the reason it's called the Xon
44:10
Valdis is because it was a tanker that ran aground in Alaska and that guy
44:15
was such and such and such. I think it's too specific a joke,
44:19
so okay, okay, I guess I can understand where that's coming from,
44:22
because I guess it's not a timeless joke. But at the time, I
44:27
mean, I guess it's like making a Clinton and Lewinsky reference now kind of
44:31
thing. Where like at the time it was all over the news, it
44:35
was a big deal, you know, like you knew that the captain was
44:37
drunk, and the X Y L D's was like when you hear xon valdis,
44:40
you know, oil spill. I feel like even today you would know
44:45
that, Like you may maybe not recognize that, you know, you may
44:47
not know the name of the of the captain, but like when you see
44:52
the picture on the ship, you're just like, oh, that must have
44:54
been the captain, even if you don't know. Look, I mean,
45:00
that's a that's a weird criticism, is what I'm saying. And I'm saying
45:05
it's not a weird criticism because you got to it precisely right there, and
45:08
I said the exact same thing. You have to be of a certain age
45:10
to get the joke, and it's as a result, it's just it's just
45:15
sort of there. And I just I think it's such a weird thing.
45:22
I think that the whoever he's referring to in that moment should have been somebody
45:28
more perpetually recognizable as a captain of industry, somebody that we would all say,
45:32
oh, well, yeah. The invention of that undoubtedly led to X
45:36
Y and Z or something like that. That's all I'm saying. And that's
45:38
just you know, so you know, hate me if you want to.
45:42
It like a movie made nowadays about like the Xon or not the X on
45:47
the ever Given, that ship that got stuck in the Suez Canal and like
45:51
backed up traffic for last months, like be like that, like in some
45:55
similar way where like they're trying to get through a pass and oh, there's
45:59
a ship stuck here. What is it? Oh, it's the ever Given.
46:00
Like we would laugh at that because we remember it. It just happened
46:04
a few years ago. But I get what you're saying that age that that
46:08
joke. It was almost made two age like it would There's no way people
46:13
are going to remember that forever. But if you look it up, then
46:15
yeah it makes sense. See you see Tristan work with me a little bit,
46:21
right and maybe maybe and if you're gonna name the ship, it has
46:27
to be the ext Like if you're going to give the ship a name,
46:30
you have to that is a perfect name for it, like that most synonymous
46:34
oil tank. We'll see. The thing is for me, Like that's the
46:36
thing is that Like if I was making that joke today, I would call
46:39
the X and Beldi's probably because of this movie, so I might have a
46:44
hard time separating it. That's entirely possible too. But I'm not going to
46:47
attack you over it. It's fine, that's fine, tack you. I
46:50
want to Takanola because I really like I can. I don't. I don't
46:53
know if it's Maherino or Majorino, Tina Maherino. I'm pretty sure it's Majorie,
47:00
Okay. I loved her portrayal as Anola. She was precocious, she
47:05
was fun, she was articulate, she was great. I normally don't like
47:08
children in movies, but I loved Anola and I loved how she loved art
47:14
and I love that she kept drawing all over his boat and every once in
47:16
a while he would find it and just lose his mind. And originally that
47:22
was going to go to Anna Paquin, which, okay, I'm a big
47:25
fan of Anna Packround, especially when she was a kid. I liked your
47:29
stuff. Flyaway Home was a great movie about geese, but this one,
47:34
I'm glad that it didn't go to her because I feel like and Nola had
47:39
like I feel like Anna Paquin would have given more anger and ferocity to the
47:45
role. But Anola I think gives a little bit more of that childlike innocence
47:51
that is so endearing. And one thing that I love about her the tattoo
47:54
is that it is it actually gives the exact coordinates to Mount Everest. So
48:00
even if you didn't see the Ulysses cut, if you were a nerd and
48:04
looked up what those symbols meant, it would say that dry Land was Mount
48:07
Everest, which I think is cool. I think that Majorino. I agree
48:15
with you, great casting, great screen presence, really really just a terrific
48:22
performance for I mean, she's a young girl on a troubled production. You
48:30
gotta imagine this was not a happy set to be on. Three times.
48:36
Oh that sucks. And but but she's she's really good and she I agree
48:44
with you. I think that she is one of the brightest points of this
48:47
movie. I will also say that there's a movie that came out the year
48:52
prior called Karina. Karina, which co stars Whoopi Goldberg and ray Leota is
48:58
good, absolutely delightful in that I love this film so much and it's all
49:02
because of her. I have a soft spot for that movie because of her,
49:07
and it's it's funny because like whenever, like when I was in college
49:12
and Napoleon Dynamite came out, I was just like, hey, look it's
49:15
new. It's it's a Nola. She's gonna be take us to dry Land.
49:20
And also there's Jean triple Horn, which I feel like Jean dribble Horn
49:24
is in is not in the conversation enough maybe you know, like she was
49:32
so huge in the nineties. I mean she was. She was in basic
49:36
instinct, she was in the firm, she was in this, she was
49:38
in Sliding Doors, she was in she She's been in a lot of TV
49:45
lately, but I just what, like, I know, I'm gonna date
49:51
myself here, but she was in Nicky Blue Eyes for Reality Bites. Uh,
49:57
Like yes, It's just I've always really everything she's been in I've really
50:01
enjoyed. Like I think modern audiences would probably recognize her from Big Love,
50:07
the HBO show she was prominent in that. I just I've always really enjoyed
50:12
her. I've always really, really really liked her, and I just feel
50:15
like she had so much emotional weight in this film. She made us care
50:22
about the Mariner, she made us care about a Nola. She I feel
50:25
like she was almost like an audience surrogate, where when she was trying to
50:31
figure everything out, she was trying to make Mariner understand, she was trying
50:35
to make Anola understand, like she was a peacekeeper, not just on Mariner's
50:39
boat, but also on the atoll. I just feel like she gets she
50:45
gets a lot of the work done and none of the credit. I think
50:49
she is. She is good. I think that everything you're saying is accurate.
50:57
My weird thing for her is that they didn't let her be dirty enough
51:01
in the movie, like what I like, physically dirty, Like she was
51:07
too clean, Like her and Anola were too clean. Yes, well even
51:10
a Nola, like they still you know, must her up and stuff like
51:14
that. But Jean Triple Horn, you know, I get it. You
51:20
know, she's the leading lady and everything like that. But her teeth and
51:23
her face weren't dirty enough. But that's that's a production thing. That's that's
51:29
somebody behind the camera should have taken care of that sort of thing. You
51:32
know. That's never crossed my mind. But I've actually thought about this.
51:37
I can't remember why. Just just the past couple of days, I started
51:40
thinking about this, Like with with teeth, like when you watch older when
51:44
you watch movies that are supposed to take place in older like Egyptian times or
51:47
even revolutionary Yes daytimes and everything like that, they have perfect teeth. Honestly,
51:52
I'd rather than have normal teeth than the opposite, because if you watched
51:57
John Adams, the HBO miniseries, they have very accurate teeth. And you
52:01
see John Adams played by Paul Giamati, and his teeth get worse and worse
52:07
and worse as it gets older, and it is super distracting, like when
52:09
you're you were we are just not used to it as an audience. It's
52:14
it's almost equate it almost to frame rate, like when you watch anything outside
52:17
of twenty four frames per second. They're like, this is weird. I
52:21
don't like this. This is I can't think of I can't focus on anything
52:23
else. That's how I feel with that teeth. Well, even if you
52:27
leave her teeth alone, like there's stuff you can do with the fingernails and
52:30
the creases on, you know, and that like give her lines on her
52:35
face and stuff like that. I mean, if anything, even the makeup
52:37
on costmers far from perfect. There they try to give him a little sunburned
52:42
stuff, and it's like it looks like they drew it on his face sort
52:45
of things. It really does, like his smile lines on the side,
52:50
Oh look drawn on, Yes, but they could and I think should have
52:55
made more of an effort to make her look like she hadn't bathed in a
53:00
while. She just looks too sidering all the smokers, they're pitch perfect,
53:06
like they look like they're living in this a polka popati and even a lot
53:10
of the other atollers. Like, but she's the like you said, she
53:15
she's the leading lady, so she has to be beautiful. Yeah, it's
53:19
sort of like old school thinking. It's like I think if this movie were
53:22
made today, they'd make more of an effort. Yeah, well Nowaday,
53:25
Well nowadays though, like think of like Furiosa, Like Furiosa is the leading
53:30
lady, but she's got like grease paint on like half her face for the
53:35
majority of it, and the super chopped hair like it, but it works.
53:38
That's a very different role though, like Shirley's their own in Fury Road,
53:44
as Furiosa is very different than than the kind of like the pseudo helpless
53:49
Helen. Oh, yeah, you know, that's that's true. I'm glad
53:52
we we touched on Fury Road because you know, inspired by Road Warrior and
53:55
all of that type of stuff. But just as a quick point, the
54:00
knife's edge that Fury Road itself was on in terms of troubled production behind the
54:06
scenes, that could have gone very water World, and they're lucky they didn't.
54:10
That's true because the two leads hated each other. By the end of
54:15
that production, everybody was in over their head everything. It is a miracle
54:22
that Fury Road did not end up a disaster. And as we talk about
54:27
the behind the scenes stuff, Triple Horn is great, Majorino is great.
54:31
I love Hopper in this. It's amazing that this is such a troubled production,
54:37
but there are still performances that are enjoyable here where you can say,
54:43
hey, you know, it's not a total loss, Like it's a testament
54:47
to professionalism that you don't read it on these people's faces that most likely they
54:54
by the end of it, they were just they were probably like, I
54:58
don't even care if I could pay. Just let me go home, Just
55:00
let me leave and go home. I'm done. I can't be here anymore.
55:04
Like, can you imagine being crew on this. You're the cameraman that's
55:10
on one of the pieces of the trimaran, and Okay, we're gonna get
55:14
this shot. We're gonna shoot this until we get it, no matter how
55:15
many days it takes. Can you imagine waking up in the morning and going,
55:21
oh, no, I have to do this again. Like people,
55:27
multiple people almost died filming this. It's a miracle that no one died,
55:34
because Costro almost died, Triple Horn and Majorino almost died on the first day.
55:39
Multiple stunt doubles almost died. And it's from being strapped or dragged by
55:46
a boat. And it's just like, that's the dangers that they have and
55:51
being in the open water and doing stuff like this, and it's it's sad
55:57
that that it happens. And I'm glad that, you know, nothing worse
56:00
happened, but it's I think the Kevin Constra stunt double commuted by jet ski
56:04
every morning to get to the to get to the production and the atol and
56:07
everything like that. So all right, so we're at fifty six minutes,
56:12
almost fifty seven. I want to I want to talk about a positive before
56:17
we go into the rating. When you think this movie, what do you
56:21
think, like, what, what's what? What's What's a moment that pops
56:23
into your head? Darren, What's a moment that pops into your head?
56:28
Positively? When you think about this film and you're just like, yeah,
56:31
like yeah, we talked about all the production craziness, all the man all
56:35
the bad press and all the pr people almost dying and like you know,
56:37
constant going through a divorce and everything like that. You know, but we
56:40
did talk about good things. We talked about bad things. What's what's a
56:43
positive when you see water World? That that pops in your brain when you
56:47
think about it, You're like, yeah, that that happened, and I
56:50
like that. I mean it's a little broad stoke, but this movie does
56:53
action really well. It is a good action movie. Like the set,
56:59
like the explosions, the music, like you feel hyped when stuff has happening,
57:05
and on the screen like it is. I mean again, I'll bring
57:07
back The Sun Show. I've watched The Sun Show. It feels like a
57:10
stunt show, like you were watching it in the movie that they're mixing match
57:15
at this point, so the you know, the I'd say, not every
57:21
set pieces, the you know, the Grand Finale or anything. But I
57:23
always liked the the trading outpost scene where they they're lying in wait because I
57:31
don't see it coming, like they hide it so well because you're you know,
57:35
they're drifting up and they're like, oh, we're gonna trade for resin
57:37
and oh, look they're waving. And then I'm like, wait, they're
57:40
they're not waving, And I thought it was that they had like a little
57:45
sale or something that was attached to their hand and that's what was making in
57:47
the wave, not that they were physically on the because the ad told the
57:52
outposts whatever, and it turns out there actually there. But then when it
57:55
cuts to the jet skis underwater with the snorkel lines, and I'm like,
58:00
oh man, yeah, it's actions so good. I will also say Hopper
58:08
or the Deacon, is a smart villain, and I love a smart villain.
58:13
Like he's not a perfect villain, Like he makes mistakes obviously he's just
58:15
a person, but overall, he doesn't make giant stupid mistakes like oh,
58:22
I'm gonna kill all my lieutenants or say something stupid in front of them,
58:25
they're all gonna uprise, Like no, none of that happens, like he
58:29
like legitimately, he almost gets away with it. Like he knows how to
58:34
control his crew, he knows how to manage his resources, he knows how
58:38
to lay traps, he knows how to you know. Like the only thing
58:43
that's really threatening him is the fact that he's done it so well that he's
58:46
wiped out all the atolls and so there's almost none left. And that's why
58:52
he's kind of like in a pinch. But I love a smart villain who
58:54
doesn't make giant, stupid mistakes. And he has so many great one liners
59:00
too, Like I often think about he's just like I was like, oh,
59:01
how touching a single tear rolls down my cheek? All right, John,
59:08
what about you? I would say that the thing that I will always
59:13
remember is going all the way back to seeing it in the theater. The
59:17
biggest laugh line of the entire thing is the flame approaches. The guy is
59:22
floating on the oil and he looks up. He goes, oh, thank
59:25
god, and then the big explosion. I remember the theater erupting in laughter
59:30
at that moment. That is a perfect moment. Like everything else, you
59:34
look at that and you go, Okay, that was that was really slick.
59:38
And obviously, you know I love Hopper and Triple Horn, Majorino Costner.
59:45
I struggle a little bit with because I'm not sure in some scenes if
59:47
he's trying to do an accent of some sort or not or just tired.
59:52
But yeah, I mean I think the smoker stuff is just a lot of
59:57
fun, and especially that moment. Did you guys notice that Jack Black was
1:00:01
a smoker? No? But I saw it on WI Yeah, yeah,
1:00:07
saw it in Wikipedia. They all like look the same. They're just guys
1:00:12
with beards and grease and goggles like anybody could be anybody right there that describes
1:00:17
Jack Black. He looks like Black nowadays. You know, John, I
1:00:22
want you to go right in to into your rating, and I want you
1:00:25
to be as honest as possible. Two and a half stars two and a
1:00:30
half. Okay, in affectionate two and a half. I totally get that.
1:00:34
Respected Robin Hood. Yes, all right, Darren Gosh, I'm gonna
1:00:46
give it. I'm gonna give it a three. It's it's it's a it's
1:00:52
a four action movie, but it's a three overall. Like it's I actually
1:00:57
really enjoyed watching this, like it it didn't like you said, it didn't
1:01:00
really lag it. I mean, there's that one. I don't know what
1:01:05
that was happening in the editing, but like when they're kind of becoming a
1:01:08
couple and and there's like she's like, he's like, I want you to
1:01:14
choose me. You know, I didn't want you before, and then they
1:01:16
like go down below and then it comes back up and you see like the
1:01:21
exact same shots that led up to that scene again, and you can tell
1:01:24
they were kind of like trying to insert that scene. That was the roughest
1:01:29
cut I saw in the whole thing. It was like, Okay, something
1:01:31
was happening here and they didn't quite have the footage to make it to pull
1:01:35
it off. But we're just going to move past that. And yeah,
1:01:38
I mean, gosh, action sequences just nailed a great villain. Not even
1:01:46
guys like you guys said, I didn't feel the length. I didn't feel
1:01:50
like, oh man, I you know I could have you know, you
1:01:53
know, five bags of popcorn by this time, you know, because we're
1:01:57
finally getting to dry land at the end. But and yeah, it's I
1:02:04
think if you had less time to watch, you just pop in the theatrical
1:02:07
and you're gonna get basically the same thing, the same brushstrokes. Yeah,
1:02:13
so overall, it's it's just it's kind of just a sad tale of that
1:02:15
it did so poorly and that in maybe in ninety six and with a slightly
1:02:22
different like how much things have changed by then? You know, you have.
1:02:27
I don't know, like history could have made this a hit. It
1:02:31
could have easily. The dice could have gone a different way if like the
1:02:35
way they're filming it or budget or whatever it but it just the dominoes fell
1:02:38
how they fell. And now, like they even said with the press,
1:02:44
like it's just synonymous with you say, water World, and everyone's like,
1:02:46
oh, the biggest flop of all time, which isn't necessarily true. Yeah,
1:02:51
it's it's almost apocryphal at this point. But yeah, so I'm gonna
1:02:55
give it a solid three. So he's down a little bit from from Robin
1:03:00
Hood. But we'll see where we go go next week. What about you,
1:03:04
Tristan with your full off. That's the thing I don't think I can.
1:03:09
Did I give Robin Hood Prince of Thieves a three and five? Yes?
1:03:14
You did? Yeah, Okay, that's what I thought. I can't
1:03:15
give this the same rating as Prince of Thieves, even though like this was
1:03:20
a huge hit and and and people loved it. I enjoy water World way
1:03:24
more than Prince of Thieves. I've rewatched it many more times. And I
1:03:29
know this is a ridiculous rating. I know. I know that, John,
1:03:34
I know that. But I'm giving this four stars because God, I
1:03:37
thought you were gonna give it a five and we're gonna have problems. I
1:03:43
give this a four stars with full recognition that I have so much nostalgian,
1:03:49
you know, attached to it. I have memories of watching this with my
1:03:52
dad and loving watching and sharing it with my dad. And when I pop
1:03:57
it in and watch it, I just smile, like I laughed so hard
1:04:00
when he throws the harpoon at the redheaded guy who steals his boots and he
1:04:04
just puts his fingers up like I's got you this close to getting you,
1:04:10
you know, I laugh hysterically. I love that moment. And I just
1:04:13
there's so many moments in this, and there's there's so many positives to me
1:04:19
that outweigh the negatives and the and the Ulysses cut just maximizes that to me,
1:04:28
where I feel like the theatrical might be a three or three and a
1:04:30
half to me, but the Ulysses is a four just because it I feel
1:04:32
like it fleshes out so much. And I recognize that this may not be
1:04:36
an accurate rating or even a realistic one, but that's the one I'm giving
1:04:41
it, and that's my story and I'm sticking to it. So everyone,
1:04:45
thank you so much for listening. Please go to the nerdparty dot com for
1:04:48
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