Latest / Almost Famous Enough / ep20 Peter Dreams in July

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ep20 Peter Dreams in July · Almost Famous Enough

• 0:24
  Okay.
• 0:25
  Can we talk about what we're really doing here?
• 0:28
  I mean, like really talk about what this thing is about, this podcast, this reason for conversations to keep happening.
• 0:37
  Is this a terrible way to start a podcast early in a new season?
• 0:41
  I was prepping the night before this conversation that I had and recording with Peter Dreams, the solo moniker for Peter Dramani of the Canadian Alt Rock Band July talk.
• 0:52
  And I couldn't shake the question, what am I doing this for?
• 0:56
  Stemming from the particular question of what am I trying to get out of this conversation?
• 1:02
  I was struck by the dynamic I was going into where someone like Peter is going from interview to interview, sitting across from people who have all the information about him, and it's not a balanced conversation.
• 1:15
  I wanted balance.
• 1:17
  I didn't want to talk about all the things I can already know about him.
• 1:22
  I wanted to talk about what I didn't know yet, and it felt like this is what it was all supposed to be about.
• 1:29
  And Peter delivered.
• 1:30
  He was immediately charismatic, affable, relaxed, open, and authentic.
• 1:36
  Those eyes that seem like so piercing.
• 1:39
  In pictures and videos are actually widely invitational.
• 1:43
  There was darkness and layers in the movements, the confessions, but somewhat overshadowed by an upbeat humility and self-awareness.
• 1:52
  I was warmed, educated, inspired.
• 1:56
  I thought I had gotten to know the Peter.
• 1:58
  I didn't know yet, but how much can you know about somebody in an hour?
• 2:03
  I was invited to see this hall show, a throwback style gig a couple nights later with Peter and Moon River, his backing band and recording partners for his recent solo project.
• 2:14
  Can we just talk about what this thing is all about?
• 2:18
  Sometimes I think I'm doing a bunch of things to make this thing, but sometimes this thing is doing a bunch of things to me.
• 2:28
  Attending this local sold out community hall gig for Peter Dreams, an Edmonton boy who went off into the world and made his hometown proud.
• 2:37
  With July talk three Juno's Awards.
• 2:40
  Multiple Top 10 Rock Radio hits from four studio albums.
• 2:44
  This show felt like I had been invited by a new friend to come to his house for Thanksgiving.
• 2:51
  And so I go thinking I know exactly what Thanksgiving is, but then I arrive and it's not just him and his family, it's the entire neighborhood showing up to dinner, and it's no longer a room I can just blend into, but I'm Dumbstruck two dumbstruck by the context of the moment to notice the context being that you never actually know the things about someone.
• 3:18
  That aren't already written, the unknown things that I wanted to know until you see someone with their people, their family.
• 3:28
  This was all the context I needed to understand Peter Dreams, you would never know at any moment of that night.
• 3:36
  That this man has been approaching Canadian rock royalty and recently been a part of one of Hollywood's coolest films of the Year Sinners with Michael B.
• 3:45
  Jordan.
• 3:46
  Sometimes you don't know why you're really doing something until you just do.
• 3:52
  My name is Glen Erickson.
• 3:54
  This is Almost Famous Enough.
• 3:56
  Thank you for spending your time with us.
• 3:59
  This is Peter Dreams.
• 4:12
  Glen Erickson: So you're like coming from Sonic?
• 4:14
  Peter: Yeah.
• 4:14
  Glen Erickson: And was that just, like a taped thing or a live thing?
• 4:17
  Glen Erickson: The tape
• 4:17
  Peter: thing, it was just a set up Kday and coming through a catch up.
• 4:21
  Peter: We've been in and outta that station for.
• 4:23
  Peter: Years and years.
• 4:24
  Peter: Years or something like that.
• 4:24
  Glen Erickson: Well that's where I've always heard you guys like Yeah.
• 4:27
  Glen Erickson: Song after song after song.
• 4:28
  Glen Erickson: So grateful.
• 4:28
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 4:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 4:29
  Glen Erickson: And they like to keep winning all the awards for alt rock, I think in the country.
• 4:34
  Glen Erickson: Radio things all the time and great people admittedly.
• 4:36
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 4:37
  Glen Erickson: Always.
• 4:37
  Glen Erickson: But so you hear six days early for, is that a family thing?
• 4:42
  Glen Erickson: Been five days late,
• 4:44
  Peter: maybe?
• 4:44
  Peter: Something, yeah, I'm here for like two weeks.
• 4:46
  Peter: So I got it.
• 4:48
  Peter: Just kind of kept ballooning and, and, and being able to see family, you know, I got a kid, to kind of connect with the Alberta fam and they often come east to, to, uh, Toronto.
• 5:00
  Peter: So to just like do the opposite and I just, it's important to me that.
• 5:04
  Peter: Like my kid knows Alberta.
• 5:06
  Peter: Yeah.
• 5:07
  Peter: Like has that experience.
• 5:08
  Peter: I can already feel it just arriving Last time we were here, I mean they were only like one, maybe one.
• 5:16
  Peter: And it was February and you know, to be here in the summer.
• 5:19
  Peter: Yeah.
• 5:19
  Peter: Now a bit older.
• 5:20
  Peter: It's like super special.
• 5:21
  Peter: But then I also have these solo gigs, so I'm going tomorrow we play Calgary with this.
• 5:25
  Peter: Yeah.
• 5:26
  Peter: With this Peter Dreams project.
• 5:27
  Peter: Yeah.
• 5:28
  Peter: Um, the guys in the Moon River play as my backing band.
• 5:32
  Peter: They fly into Calgary tomorrow.
• 5:33
  Peter: Okay.
• 5:34
  Peter: So we come in, play tomorrow in Calgary, and then Friday we book Richie Hall, which I'm like very excited about.
• 5:40
  Peter: Wow.
• 5:41
  Peter: That's a throwback.
• 5:42
  Peter: I mean, we were kind of like.
• 5:43
  Peter: Just talking about this before, but I feel like there just didn't really seem to be a venue in Edmonton and last time we kinda got screwed.
• 5:50
  Peter: I won't talk about ill will about the venue, but it just was like a bad layout and I felt like, you know, yeah.
• 5:56
  Peter: Half the people that came to the show couldn't really see the stage and.
• 5:58
  Peter: I just felt a bit like, next time I wanna do something a bit more DIYA bit more.
• 6:03
  Peter: And so I grew up going to hall shows.
• 6:05
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 6:06
  Peter: One was kind of close to here.
• 6:08
  Peter: Queen Alex Hall.
• 6:09
  Peter: Yeah.
• 6:09
  Peter: I don't know if it still goes Yeah.
• 6:10
  Peter: For community stuff.
• 6:11
  Peter: I think so.
• 6:12
  Peter: But I saw some, like, some of my, kind of most formative shows there.
• 6:17
  Peter: I watched
• 6:17
  Glen Erickson: a Ritchie Hall show only, well, I guess it was a little.
• 6:20
  Glen Erickson: it feels like a few months ago, right?
• 6:21
  Glen Erickson: Maybe it was a bit more, but pretty recently.
• 6:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 6:23
  Glen Erickson: So I'm excited about it still.
• 6:25
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, do
• 6:25
  Peter: our own bar and just be like, that's the DIY, right?
• 6:28
  Peter: Well, Lynn River manager is this guy Jesse Hy.
• 6:32
  Peter: Do you know Jesse?
• 6:32
  Peter: Oh, very well.
• 6:33
  Peter: Yeah.
• 6:33
  Peter: So Jesse's like friend, really coastal by the bars.
• 6:36
  Peter: We played July talk, played with Jesse's band in Lethbridge when he was still living in Lethbridge in like 2013 or something.
• 6:43
  Peter: So we've always kind of like, yeah, that goes way back in each other's orbit.
• 6:46
  Peter: And, uh, so he's managing Moon River now, and Moon River has, so that's the show.
• 6:50
  Glen Erickson: He's making all his posts trying to find somebody who knows maybe how to do security.
• 6:54
  Glen Erickson: That, is that what it was?
• 6:55
  Peter: Security.
• 6:56
  Peter: Yeah.
• 6:56
  Peter: Thumb.
• 6:57
  Peter: He's been putting it all together.
• 6:58
  Peter: Emily Chen's doing sound.
• 6:59
  Peter: Oh, she's great.
• 7:00
  Peter: Who I went to school with.
• 7:01
  Peter: Oh, really?
• 7:01
  Peter: And knew her brother really well.
• 7:03
  Peter: And her sister.
• 7:04
  Peter: And, uh.
• 7:06
  Peter: You know, there's like a bunch of people, uh, Billy Z's on the bill who I grew up across the street from, like literally right across the street, Jordan and still family.
• 7:14
  Peter: Yeah.
• 7:14
  Peter: She's doing.
• 7:15
  Peter: And so, uh, yeah, it's gonna be like, you know what I mean?
• 7:18
  Peter: You could tell what, what we're after.
• 7:20
  Peter: I think we're just after like a more of a community experience then like trying to sell bar tab.
• 7:26
  Peter: Yeah.
• 7:26
  Peter: You know what I mean?
• 7:26
  Peter: Like
• 7:27
  Glen Erickson: that's pretty
• 7:28
  Peter: amazing.
• 7:29
  Peter: I mean, as a July talk thing, you kind of get shocked as like this like Live Nation ticket master band.
• 7:34
  Peter: A bit like sometimes you get taken out of that kind of more community feel.
• 7:40
  Peter: Yeah.
• 7:40
  Peter: Well, because you don't have your hands in that.
• 7:43
  Peter: No.
• 7:43
  Peter: You kind of have to play the game like.
• 7:45
  Peter: Yeah, like if I want to get July talk a good show in Richmond, Virginia, it's helpful for me to play the game when we play in, you know, Toronto or like one of our cities where we can bring a crowd, Edmonton, whatever.
• 7:57
  Peter: Yeah.
• 7:58
  Peter: Yeah.
• 7:58
  Peter: And so as a result, you're kind of always leveraging spots where.
• 8:02
  Peter: You have a deep community and you end up doing shows that are more through those kind of giant multinational collaborations.
• 8:09
  Peter: Yeah.
• 8:09
  Peter: You miss out on doing kind of fun community stuff like this.
• 8:12
  Peter: Yeah.
• 8:12
  Peter: That's
• 8:12
  Glen Erickson: really
• 8:12
  Peter: great.
• 8:12
  Glen Erickson: So Peter Dreams
• 8:13
  Peter: has been a good opportunity for me to be able to
• 8:15
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 8:15
  Glen Erickson: Do more of that stuff.
• 8:16
  Glen Erickson: Well, let's, let's just talk about that and jump in right there, like, Obviously, like I often like to go back to the beginning with people.
• 8:23
  Glen Erickson: Sure.
• 8:23
  Glen Erickson: Set some stage and context, but so your beginning is here in Edmonton, which is very cool, which already gives me a lot to talk about.
• 8:29
  Glen Erickson: I'm sure every time you talk to somebody at Edmonton you get that becomes a little bit thematic in the conversation, but you don't seem opposed to it.
• 8:36
  Glen Erickson: Not at all.
• 8:37
  Glen Erickson: Um, but you know, obviously, so your career was like getting things going in Edmonton, making a jump to Toronto.
• 8:43
  Glen Erickson: You meet Leia there.
• 8:44
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 8:45
  Glen Erickson: You form July talk.
• 8:46
  Glen Erickson: Kind of rest is history in a way, right?
• 8:48
  Glen Erickson: Like Yeah, over a decade of like album releases, like four full lengths.
• 8:52
  Glen Erickson: The first three all win Grammys or Junos, sorry.
• 8:55
  Glen Erickson: And like radio single after radio single in Canada.
• 8:58
  Glen Erickson: And you know it for the state of radio.
• 9:01
  Glen Erickson: I feel like the alt rock sort of like charting or at least.
• 9:04
  Glen Erickson: That system inside of Canada is pretty strong and healthy and has some impact for bands.
• 9:09
  Glen Erickson: So you have this arc, but it starts in Edmonton, which I'm interested in about.
• 9:14
  Glen Erickson: cause we already talked about briefly, like the Pawn Shop showed you that photo of your first, but before that you had been here, there had been the venues where you saw bands all the time.
• 9:24
  Glen Erickson: I'm curious who, when you were here, sort of still informative years.
• 9:29
  Glen Erickson: Better for worse.
• 9:30
  Glen Erickson: Who were, who were the ones you were trying to emulate?
• 9:33
  Glen Erickson: Who were you seeing in venues?
• 9:35
  Glen Erickson: What was your like North Star?
• 9:37
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 9:37
  Glen Erickson: That made you want to do this?
• 9:38
  Peter: I mean like I think that I was a music fan first and foremost.
• 9:43
  Peter: When I lived in Edmonton.
• 9:44
  Peter: I was a film guy.
• 9:45
  Peter: Like when I was in high school, I got deeply, deeply.
• 9:49
  Peter: just fell in love with filmmaking.
• 9:51
  Peter: I got involved at Fava.
• 9:53
  Peter: Mm-hmm.
• 9:54
  Peter: And went to Vic Comp where they had a film program and this guy, Steve Ashworth, who was teaching, who was really putting kids in the position to succeed and I was very fortunate to be in the center of that.
• 10:06
  Peter: Um, so I made a bunch of film stuff coming outta high school and you know, kind of my best friend at the time, or one of my best friends at the time was Eamon McGrath and he was really.
• 10:17
  Peter: Touring a lot in music.
• 10:18
  Peter: So he was doing music, I was doing film and I was more focusing on trying to go to film school in Toronto.
• 10:23
  Peter: Uh, wanted to go to California and I remember going and, and at the bank they were like, we're not lending you enough money to go to California, so, okay, Toronto it is, but uh.
• 10:32
  Peter: But yeah, it was, you know, my experience as a music fan here in those years always played guitar and keys and stuff.
• 10:39
  Peter: But, you know, I think the North Star was often, you know, often shows put on by Eli Klein.
• 10:45
  Peter: I don't know if you know Eline.
• 10:47
  Peter: Uh, but he often put on great shows.
• 10:49
  Peter: Like locally it was bands like Shout Out, out, out, out.
• 10:53
  Peter: Um, and, uh, uh, who else comes to mind?
• 10:57
  Peter: The Franklins were huge, like sort of the punk rock scene.
• 11:02
  Peter: Mm-hmm.
• 11:02
  Peter: Um, like I said, Eamon McGrath.
• 11:04
  Peter: And, uh, you know, the city streets were kind of these like outlaws that felt very like, fun and dangerous.
• 11:11
  Peter: Were you going to like New City Liquid
• 11:12
  Glen Erickson: Lounge,
• 11:13
  Peter: new
• 11:13
  Glen Erickson: City?
• 11:14
  Peter: I guess when, when I, when it was bands coming in town from elsewhere, it was often Eli putting the shows on.
• 11:21
  Peter: Yeah.
• 11:21
  Peter: And it would be like.
• 11:22
  Peter: You know, the true North Star was the Constantines.
• 11:25
  Peter: you know, particularly seeing them at Starlight Room.
• 11:28
  Peter: Uh, Attack in Black was like a super formative show for me.
• 11:33
  Peter: and then yeah, seeing like two drummers playing with Shout Out, they played an all ages show at a venue that's like downtown.
• 11:43
  Peter: Convocation Hall, no, maybe that's not what it's called.
• 11:46
  Peter: There's like a downtown, some sort of public hall downtown, but kind of like heading towards the river valley.
• 11:51
  Peter: Some, I dunno, two 50 cap or something like that.
• 11:54
  Peter: Anyway, two drummers playing together.
• 11:55
  Peter: Yeah, it was on the wheel, right?
• 11:56
  Peter: I was blown away.
• 11:57
  Peter: And like seeing bands like what?
• 11:59
  Peter: Houston, I, all those bands at that time, you know, when I was coming of age were just extremely inspiring.
• 12:04
  Peter: But um, but yeah, so I guess I'd always.
• 12:08
  Peter: I took a trip to Toronto when I was like 11, and I like decided that I was.
• 12:12
  Peter: You knew then there, you know, I was just very sure that that was where I needed to go.
• 12:18
  Peter: Yeah.
• 12:19
  Peter: Um, I never wanted to go to Vancouver.
• 12:21
  Peter: There was lots of other friends that were going west and I just was always like, no, no.
• 12:25
  Peter: It was a little easier.
• 12:26
  Peter: I need to go.
• 12:26
  Peter: I don't know why I wanted to so badly necessarily, but then I guess the reason why I ended up going was because I got involved with some filmmakers that lived in Toronto.
• 12:36
  Peter: Kinda gave me a shoe in Yeah.
• 12:37
  Peter: And allowed me to do it.
• 12:38
  Peter: And so my way to July talk.
• 12:40
  Peter: Ultimately was through that.
• 12:42
  Peter: I like started, uh, I went to film school, was doing film work for music, video dance, and then ended up quitting film school two years in, in debt and decided that I just like didn't, it wasn't serving me and I was done with school.
• 12:57
  Peter: So you made that quit before the music thing had already?
• 13:00
  Peter: Pretty much.
• 13:01
  Peter: I'd been playing a little bit of music here and there, but not really, and I was like.
• 13:05
  Peter: 21 or 20, and I realized like I am spending, I'm living beyond my means.
• 13:11
  Peter: I'm spending all this money on university that I don't really need.
• 13:14
  Peter: I'm working in the industry and kind of being taken away from working in film because of the school.
• 13:20
  Peter: And so me and my best friend at school, Josh, decided to quit together.
• 13:24
  Peter: And he was a bit older.
• 13:25
  Peter: He had had a background in playing in bands.
• 13:28
  Peter: Byron had gone back to film school.
• 13:29
  Peter: So we decided, well, let's start a music video production company.
• 13:34
  Peter: So we started a production company together, quit school and uh, and did videos for, oh my God, like we must have done.
• 13:43
  Peter: Two or three dozen videos in the first year.
• 13:45
  Peter: Like it was just nutty.
• 13:46
  Peter: The, the, the amount of work we were doing together, we bought a camera and just went for it.
• 13:51
  Peter: in that phase where we were making like Much Fact funded videos, which was a grant that was at the time available through Bell Media, um, where you would get.
• 14:03
  Peter: You know, 10, 20 grand to make a music video.
• 14:05
  Peter: So we were making videos for Arkels and, and, and Tokyo Police Club and Born Raffan and, uh, Silverstein and like all these like kind of Canadian bands.
• 14:16
  Peter: And, um, I think through that.
• 14:20
  Peter: There was sort of, and then I started touring in Eamon Ogas band because, you know, he was coming to Toronto and touring outta Toronto and I was, you know, selling merch and just kind of being around that and really fucking in love with the romance of the road.
• 14:34
  Peter: Um, so in the midst of that, Josh and I are talking and we were always kind of showing each other song ideas we had and stuff, but I'd never played live or like sang live or done any of that.
• 14:44
  Peter: At one point I think we made a video that had taken us like six months and we'd worked for what ended up being, you know,$2 an hour or something insane.
• 14:54
  Peter: I think that artists put it out.
• 14:56
  Peter: I don't remember what exactly it was, but essentially I think it felt like they just didn't market it or didn't have any sort of like context around the project to support the video.
• 15:05
  Peter: And it ended up getting, you know, 10,000 views and sitting on YouTube and we felt we'd like.
• 15:09
  Peter: Like, you know, just put our blood, sweat and tears.
• 15:12
  Peter: Yeah.
• 15:12
  Peter: And this, and I think that that was a real changing moment where we kind of realized like, I think we can do this.
• 15:16
  Peter: Like we can do the, the band part too.
• 15:19
  Peter: Yeah.
• 15:20
  Peter: And make all the videos and we can have a project that is sort of supported.
• 15:26
  Peter: And like all the stuff that bands hate, like the branding, we actually kind of like, like, we like making a, a project that feels all cohesive and, and every, all these little Easter eggs kind of attached to each other and whatever.
• 15:40
  Peter: So that was happening over here.
• 15:41
  Peter: And then simultaneously, I'm touring with Eamon and Danny, who's our drummer in July, talk.
• 15:46
  Peter: Playing in a Amen's band and this band called the Mohawk Lodge from Vancouver.
• 15:51
  Peter: and so those two things are kind of happening simultaneously.
• 15:54
  Peter: And the Mohawk Lodge, Aman McGrath's situation completely falls apart in, you know, early twenties, excess of.
• 16:03
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 16:04
  Peter: drinking too much and doing too many substances in the body.
• 16:08
  Peter: I meet Leah in a bar in Toronto, just like kind of by chance, I strolled into a bar after a particularly chaotic AM McGrath show.
• 16:18
  Peter: And I had written a tune that summer the whole time we were touring at that era.
• 16:25
  Peter: I had a little notebook on and I had been writing a lot and.
• 16:29
  Peter: I had written a tune called July Talk, which I was like, oh, that's an interesting song.
• 16:33
  Peter: It was like four verses, didn't have a chorus.
• 16:36
  Peter: It had like this weird breakdown in the middle.
• 16:38
  Peter: And I was like, this is an interesting song and it feels as if it's a conversation.
• 16:43
  Peter: It feels like it's two people singing.
• 16:45
  Peter: This feels obviously, like you could definitely go back and forth and like kinda like scream back and forth and in my mind it felt a bit like, you know, I'm going to Jackson, Johnny Cash and June or something.
• 16:56
  Peter: Like it had this feeling and so I meet Leia.
• 16:59
  Peter: She had this band called Mothers of Brides, sorry, I'm going on a reel.
• 17:03
  Peter: So everybody had bands in Toronto.
• 17:05
  Peter: We were all playing in different projects, whatever.
• 17:07
  Peter: And I meet Leia and she's got this band where it's like sort of a performance art duo.
• 17:12
  Peter: I remember they were always drumming with knives.
• 17:14
  Peter: They had knives on stage.
• 17:15
  Peter: Yeah, that's very performance art.
• 17:16
  Peter: And yeah, like playing guitar.
• 17:18
  Peter: It was like, it was like influenced by like Miranda July and like, I don't know, handsome furs maybe.
• 17:24
  Peter: And uh.
• 17:25
  Peter: Um, I was watching them and just being like, she's like, just so compelling, like unbelievably compelling person and so sort of convinced her to start playing songs together every week in this jam space, that we had been playing.
• 17:41
  Peter: Uh, you know, Mohawk Lodge and Amen Tunes in.
• 17:44
  Peter: And as soon as the other band fell apart, kind of was able to convince Danny and Amen to come into the fold and make music with Leia.
• 17:53
  Peter: And then I went to Josh and I said, remember this idea that we had over here?
• 17:57
  Peter: Like let's just try to like put everything into, yeah, into one box and see what develops.
• 18:02
  Peter: And like, as you might imagine, with all of that energy and different sources of.
• 18:08
  Peter: Like energy and ideas.
• 18:09
  Peter: I think it, it all happened like really quickly and we started just creating a lot of art really, really quickly.
• 18:15
  Peter: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Peter: Um, and by instinct.
• 18:17
  Peter: And all of a sudden it was like we're shooting music videos in two or three hours because everyone's just like.
• 18:24
  Peter: It just really knows.
• 18:26
  Glen Erickson: They're just in
• 18:27
  Peter: it.
• 18:27
  Peter: They get it.
• 18:27
  Peter: We got it.
• 18:28
  Peter: We understood what we were doing.
• 18:29
  Peter: exciting time.
• 18:30
  Peter: Yeah.
• 18:31
  Peter: But that's kind of how I came from Edmonton to Toronto to July talk, I guess.
• 18:35
  Glen Erickson: Well, I'm glad you brought up a bunch about Eamon,'cause I was gonna ask about Eamon,'cause he was such a nick significant figure around here, right?
• 18:44
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 18:44
  Glen Erickson: And I think for a lot of bands here, I mean, he had such a presence in his like live presence especially, and, uh.
• 18:51
  Glen Erickson: And you know, he was just known to be like, he was by himself going off and to Europe and playing shows and stuff, and everyone's like, how's this guy doing this?
• 18:59
  Glen Erickson: Like, how's this guy have a career going?
• 19:01
  Glen Erickson: But it was really inspiring and he's of course a really good guy and I, uh, so I found really interesting to see how close that connection was.
• 19:08
  Glen Erickson: I mean, I don't know, I'm sure people have pointed out like.
• 19:10
  Glen Erickson: You two have this very unique like growly voice that sounds like you've already done some damage to it.
• 19:16
  Glen Erickson: You know?
• 19:16
  Glen Erickson: So those two guys to be together, I found such an interesting, uh, kind of union, but.
• 19:22
  Glen Erickson: I'm wondering what, uh oh, you sort of alluded to it a little bit already, but I was kinda curious as to what, you know, Eamon rubbed off on you
• 19:30
  Peter: for sure.
• 19:30
  Peter: Oh, man.
• 19:31
  Peter: Like that's such a blurry line that I have no idea really.
• 19:35
  Peter: Like, it's hard for me to have perspective on it, but I don't know.
• 19:38
  Peter: He,
• 19:39
  Glen Erickson: like, you were with him in hard years, I think.
• 19:41
  Glen Erickson: Approach, right?
• 19:41
  Glen Erickson: Think approach.
• 19:41
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, of course.
• 19:42
  Glen Erickson: Those were like, I mean, we were, he did pretty hard, going hard on substances, of course, on the touring and every, every part of it, right.
• 19:47
  Peter: you know, to go back even further than that, like that guy was like, I don't even know if he's really improved in, like, for instance, his guitar playing since he was like a teenager.
• 19:56
  Peter: He, he like, almost like arrived fully formed when we were teenagers.
• 20:01
  Peter: Yeah.
• 20:01
  Peter: He could play the way he plays now then, you know, and he was writing songs.
• 20:06
  Peter: There was like a real shift.
• 20:08
  Peter: I think he had had punk bands from when we were like 13.
• 20:11
  Peter: He had the morells.
• 20:12
  Peter: Which was like, just so inspiring when I was like a kid, you know, like my stepdad had bought me like, you know, the Clash and the REamones and the Sex Pistols or whatever to like inform me of what punk rock was.
• 20:25
  Peter: But like Eamon comes from like a family.
• 20:28
  Peter: His dad's from Wexford in, uh, in Ireland and is like just one of the most pure music fans I've ever known.
• 20:35
  Peter: And so he, that house is like just this.
• 20:38
  Peter: Some would call it dissonant in some ways.
• 20:40
  Peter: 'cause there's just records going on in this room.
• 20:42
  Peter: His brother's playing drums over here in this room.
• 20:44
  Peter: Bowie's going on over here.
• 20:46
  Peter: You know, the cramps are playing like it's just all over the place and it's like a lot.
• 20:50
  Peter: But as a young person, I think I like, I was really fortunate to mm-hmm.
• 20:55
  Peter: To, to, to have met him.
• 20:56
  Peter: Like it was a real happenstance thing where.
• 20:59
  Peter: A few weeks before we met, when we were 11, he moved a block away from where my dad lived in, uh, near West Mount Mall.
• 21:06
  Peter: Mm.
• 21:06
  Peter: In North Glenora.
• 21:07
  Peter: And, uh, him, myself and this guy, John Lesko, became like the three Musketeers.
• 21:14
  Peter: Like we were just best friends.
• 21:16
  Peter: Couldn't, couldn't, uh, exist without each other throughout our teenage years.
• 21:21
  Peter: Took the bus every day together, whatever.
• 21:23
  Peter: And yeah, I think we kind of occupied our own spaces.
• 21:25
  Peter: Like I was the film guy, he was the music guy, but we always ended up, you know, howling away on the piano.
• 21:32
  Peter: And, you know, I was really taken by his songs and I, I think I was a real champion of his songs.
• 21:40
  Peter: I was usually one of the first people to be able to hear what he had been working on.
• 21:45
  Peter: And he was usually the first person to see anything I was making film wise.
• 21:49
  Peter: Yeah.
• 21:50
  Peter: And so, uh, I think even in my approach to film, I think there was like a bit of a sufferer for your art, tortured, you know, I was really interested in people like Elliot Smith and Daniel Johnston and Tom Waits, and people that really approach their art from a pretty manic place.
• 22:10
  Peter: And I think he was often coming from a similar Yeah.
• 22:14
  Peter: Perspective.
• 22:14
  Peter: Perspective.
• 22:14
  Peter: And I think that John was also coming from a similar kind of stuff for your art thing.
• 22:20
  Peter: And I think that that took us down some pretty wild roads where mental health wise, like, I fell off the cliff a few times and he fell off the cliff a few times.
• 22:30
  Peter: And we, that's life, you know?
• 22:32
  Peter: But, um, yeah, I don't know.
• 22:34
  Peter: I, I think that.
• 22:35
  Peter: We rubbed off on each other.
• 22:36
  Peter: I'm very grateful for that friendship.
• 22:38
  Peter: Um, and yet it was a really complicated friendship and now, you have a lot of ups and downs and whatever.
• 22:44
  Peter: So
• 22:45
  Glen Erickson: especially when you go through all those kinds of things, a hundred percent things are pretty, uh, hyperfocused at certain,
• 22:50
  Peter: I mean, some of it made it into a you know, those tours were so
• 22:54
  Glen Erickson: chaotic.
• 22:55
  Peter: Like unbelievably chaotic.
• 22:57
  Peter: Yeah.
• 22:58
  Peter: Like wouldn't, I don't think I would be able to experience some of that now.
• 23:01
  Peter: Yeah.
• 23:02
  Peter: You know, just the chaos and the, and sometimes it felt like we were driven towards self-destruction.
• 23:09
  Peter: And now I think we have a greater understanding of things like privilege and things like just how lucky we are to be alive.
• 23:16
  Peter: And coming from Edmonton and feeling like you're from a small town, I think it puts a little bit of a chip on your shoulder and you wanna.
• 23:22
  Peter: Big time.
• 23:22
  Peter: It does.
• 23:22
  Peter: You know what I mean?
• 23:23
  Peter: So it was a lot.
• 23:24
  Glen Erickson: Um, you talking about what that time was?
• 23:27
  Glen Erickson: So I had, I heard you say something and I had to stop it and pause it and write it down, which was not valuing your own life or existence is actually encouraged or rewarded Yeah.
• 23:36
  Glen Erickson: In the music scene.
• 23:37
  Glen Erickson: And I was wanting to ask you to elaborate, which you sort of started to there.
• 23:42
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 23:42
  Glen Erickson: But.
• 23:43
  Glen Erickson: If you could just like, yeah, just continue that.
• 23:45
  Glen Erickson: Like what, what is the experience that informs that thought?
• 23:50
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I think that's would sound surprising to a lot of people.
• 23:53
  Peter: Yeah.
• 23:54
  Peter: I don't know.
• 23:54
  Peter: And I mean, I also want to be careful because I don't want to tokenize my experience in Alberta, um, because I think.
• 24:01
  Peter: This city in particular contains multitudes of different experiences, and I don't want to pigEamonhole it at all, but I would say that the scene that I was involved in was pretty self-destructive and, and I think there was a sense that putting yourself through pain was a noble.
• 24:17
  Peter: I Um, now there was all kinds of scenes coming outta Edmonton, and I think this city punches well above its weight in terms of the incredible artists mm-hmm.
• 24:27
  Peter: And art that it's produced.
• 24:28
  Peter: But like my experience within it was just like, was, uh, you know, just lost some friends like John that I mentioned earlier.
• 24:35
  Peter: Yeah.
• 24:35
  Peter: Passed away, uh, a few years ago and, uh, and I think.
• 24:41
  Peter: In my formative years when I like found myself in a self-destructive, self abusive place, there was something inside me telling me that that was productive and where I wanted to be, if I was gonna be come.
• 24:57
  Peter: Anything.
• 24:58
  Peter: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Peter: and maybe there's truth in that.
• 24:59
  Peter: I don't really know, but all I know is that, uh.
• 25:02
  Peter: Is that I think Eamon and I both shared a drive and a blind ambition that want, we wanted to share our ideas and our lives and our feelings with the world.
• 25:15
  Peter: And I think sometimes when you have what feels like a quality, what feels like a, um.
• 25:21
  Peter: An ability to set your mind to something and do it.
• 25:25
  Peter: If the thing you're setting your mind to is self-destruction or is self abuse, you're gonna do that too.
• 25:31
  Peter: You're gonna see that through right till it's end.
• 25:33
  Peter: you know what I mean?
• 25:34
  Peter: Uh, maybe that's a scattering of thoughts, but I would say that having.
• 25:40
  Peter: Uh, gone through that and found my way to some friendships that, come, that feel at home in a more grounded space that feel.
• 25:51
  Peter: I don't know if how best to say it man.
• 25:52
  Peter: It's like, I dunno, just to like bring it to like the Song Arrivals, which is the second song on my new record.
• 25:59
  Peter: It's like, it's really just about like waiting for my baby to come in.
• 26:03
  Peter: Those like final moments.
• 26:05
  Peter: My baby came two and a half weeks late and there was just this like strange two and a half weeks where we were just.
• 26:12
  Peter: Like on pause and in some ways it felt as if the due date had been like this deadline for me to like find solid ground to offer to this new like being like, you can stand here and you're gonna be safe when like.
• 26:30
  Peter: Like you have a fixed timeline now.
• 26:32
  Peter: Fix.
• 26:32
  Peter: Fix all the things that were fixed needed.
• 26:33
  Peter: I dunno if you felt that.
• 26:34
  Peter: Do you have kids?
• 26:34
  Peter: I don't know.
• 26:34
  Peter: Yeah, I got two kids.
• 26:36
  Peter: Did you feel that way?
• 26:37
  Peter: Oh, you want to be able to kind of like fix yourself before they show up?
• 26:41
  Peter: I felt consumed by idealism.
• 26:43
  Peter: Yeah.
• 26:44
  Glen Erickson: In those
• 26:44
  Peter: moments.
• 26:44
  Peter: Like that's a good way to put it.
• 26:45
  Peter: Yeah.
• 26:46
  Peter: Simultaneously, you know, like my brother's going through a lot with his health, his ability to, you know, stop doing things that are hurting him.
• 26:55
  Peter: You know, I am in a space where I'm like trying to face demons that have been plaguing me, you know?
• 27:03
  Peter: And you're never gonna be a finished product.
• 27:06
  Peter: Right?
• 27:06
  Peter: Yeah.
• 27:07
  Peter: but I think the recognition that I had been surrounded by people inclu, and I was one of them that just didn't really value being on part of this life.
• 27:18
  Peter: Mm-hmm.
• 27:18
  Peter: You know what I mean?
• 27:19
  Peter: and sort of glorified that in some capacity.
• 27:21
  Peter: I think I just wanted to find the new.
• 27:25
  Peter: A new thing.
• 27:25
  Peter: And you know what actually was the moment where it shifted for me was I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2020 with type one diabetes and there was this moment where, I had done this like program where we were delivering groceries in COVID and we were using our van and I was picking up all these heavy groceries and I threw out my back in the back of the.
• 27:45
  Peter: Car.
• 27:46
  Peter: That was my assumption.
• 27:47
  Peter: But then I started doing all these blood tests and my blood's completely off the charts, high glucose, and there's a point in my back that is like wicked, wicked, painful and screwed up, and it's right where my pancreas is.
• 28:03
  Peter: And I recognize, oh my God.
• 28:05
  Peter: Like I start doing the WebMD searching.
• 28:08
  Peter: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:09
  Peter: And I recognize that's where my pancreas is.
• 28:12
  Peter: And I start looking at like high glucose levels and pain on your back around your pancreas are signs of pancreatic cancer.
• 28:20
  Peter: And I have this moment where I'm like, I think I'm gonna die.
• 28:24
  Peter: Hmm.
• 28:25
  Peter: And I called Eamon.
• 28:26
  Peter: And I talked to E but it was like the first time I can remember that I like recognized that I didn't want to die.
• 28:36
  Peter: I was like very sure in that moment that I was like, I wanna stick around.
• 28:41
  Peter: And before that.
• 28:43
  Peter: I have concrete memories of like driving by the river here and being like, oh, once I get this film out, or once I like finish this song idea and just get like a recording of it, I think that that'll be enough and I think I can die.
• 29:00
  Peter: And that's like pretty fucked up.
• 29:01
  Peter: But I think everybody goes through it and I think it's relatable.
• 29:04
  Peter: Yeah.
• 29:04
  Glen Erickson: And I think it's fair to say I'm, I'm assuming,
• 29:06
  Peter: yeah,
• 29:07
  Glen Erickson: that's not like a.
• 29:08
  Glen Erickson: Uh, a cliche suicidal thought.
• 29:10
  Glen Erickson: It's a carelessness of life thought.
• 29:14
  Glen Erickson: Oh, no.
• 29:14
  Glen Erickson: It's a blurry line.
• 29:15
  Glen Erickson: I, I can tell you like suicidal in the sense that like, it's not like I'm gonna go make a plan.
• 29:18
  Glen Erickson: No.
• 29:19
  Glen Erickson: You're just sort of saying like, there's really nothing else for me.
• 29:22
  Peter: Totally.
• 29:23
  Peter: Right.
• 29:23
  Peter: And I think, you know, I don't know.
• 29:25
  Peter: I mean, I think it's just a difficult go sometimes, uh, for all of us.
• 29:29
  Peter: But I think having this wake up call, Where it was very much like being faced with it.
• 29:36
  Peter: And even though, you know, I was a type one diagno diagnosis and not a pancreatic cancer diagnosis that followed it, it was still like I was dying in that moment.
• 29:45
  Peter: You know?
• 29:46
  Peter: Like I had lost 50 pounds and I was a, I was a rake.
• 29:49
  Peter: And, and, and had I not changed my lifestyle very significantly, that would've been the end for me.
• 29:54
  Peter: And being faced with that was, was a real like page turner moment for me.
• 30:00
  Peter: Mm.
• 30:00
  Peter: Um.
• 30:01
  Peter: And then following that with, with now welcoming a baby.
• 30:05
  Peter: It was just sort of like deep down, I always wanted to live.
• 30:09
  Peter: You know what I mean?
• 30:10
  Peter: Yeah.
• 30:10
  Peter: I always felt love and felt hope, and felt joy.
• 30:13
  Peter: I just didn't think that they were productive.
• 30:15
  Peter: I didn't think that positivity contained the same value as as loneliness and as self-destruction.
• 30:26
  Peter: Somewhere along the line, I'd signed a contract that that wasn't how it worked.
• 30:30
  Peter: And now more than ever, I think that like the most punk rock thing in the world is joy.
• 30:36
  Peter: And I think the coolest thing in the world you can do is like, help your kid get ready for the day and like genuinely just be a dependable person for your kid.
• 30:46
  Peter: Yeah.
• 30:47
  Peter: That's all you owe them.
• 30:48
  Peter: That's, I dunno about you, but that's literally all I care about.
• 30:51
  Peter: Yeah.
• 30:51
  Peter: Is to just have.
• 30:53
  Peter: Then be able to look up at me and say, I'm safe.
• 30:56
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 30:56
  Glen Erickson: It depend on this, this, that's everything.
• 30:58
  Glen Erickson: That's all.
• 30:59
  Glen Erickson: It's their worldview.
• 31:00
  Glen Erickson: And you talk to everybody.
• 31:01
  Glen Erickson: Now, this is, I'm being so convinced this lately, I hear everybody talk about their problems and the things that they try to dig out, and we're such a therapized society of course.
• 31:10
  Glen Erickson: And I'm like, but I remember hearing that your worldview was formed in your first four years, which really comes down to am I safe in this world or not?
• 31:17
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Glen Erickson: And then from there, can I trust it?
• 31:19
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 31:19
  Glen Erickson: Every version of validation and security and everything you get from that, like is informed by this thing that happens in a time that you have no controls.
• 31:27
  Peter: A hundred percent.
• 31:28
  Peter: But, and I think that's also, I grew up in Riverdale in like this really special moment in that part of town where there was like a bunch of, you know, working class hippie families working together to really create a hell of a community and, and yeah.
• 31:43
  Peter: And I think I always deep down was deeply an optimist.
• 31:48
  Peter: I think I was always extremely optimistic as a person and I an idealist, you know?
• 31:54
  Peter: And I think that Do you think that saved you in some ways?
• 31:57
  Peter: I think it did,
• 31:57
  Glen Erickson: because I'm discovering the same thing.
• 31:59
  Peter: Yeah.
• 32:00
  Glen Erickson: That I'm discovering more dark places.
• 32:03
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 32:03
  Glen Erickson: And.
• 32:04
  Glen Erickson: But I'm always this go to bed at night and somehow I think like tomorrow I'm gonna, it's gonna be better tomorrow.
• 32:09
  Peter: Yeah.
• 32:10
  Peter: I'm gonna do better tomorrow.
• 32:11
  Peter: And trusting that everybody around you wants to choose love, you know?
• 32:16
  Peter: Yeah.
• 32:16
  Peter: And wants to be the best versions of themselves and, and all of those things.
• 32:21
  Peter: You know, like I think sometimes my optimism, which I get from my mother, like is a secret weapon and I'm so grateful for it.
• 32:28
  Peter: but I think that.
• 32:29
  Peter: Uh, when, and I, I'm just, yeah, I'm very grateful for it.
• 32:32
  Peter: I think that I, I ended up taking often a, a role of like sort of a support person for friends that were going through pain, and that often shielded me from going through the pain myself.
• 32:45
  Peter: I was often kind of an observer and in some of my like, less proud moments.
• 32:51
  Peter: Looking in hindsight, I think that I was overly.
• 32:54
  Peter: Trying to be a savior to friends and create, did you feel like a magnet for them?
• 32:59
  Peter: Maybe for that type of person?
• 33:00
  Peter: I just don't think that it's particularly helpful to try to be like, this is how you do it.
• 33:04
  Peter: Yeah.
• 33:05
  Peter: Like people have to do their own thing.
• 33:06
  Peter: Yeah.
• 33:07
  Peter: And, and I, and I, and I have regrets about how, especially with friends that have lost
• 33:11
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 33:12
  Peter: You know, just, I'm just trying to model something or something.
• 33:16
  Peter: But, but, but I always feel, uh, you know, and staying with my parents right now and like just being in that house.
• 33:21
  Peter: And remembering that that house was always, I think, a, a safe place to be.
• 33:26
  Peter: You know, it was always well intentioned, but I think you do, I've learned a lot about how being a friend is more just about listening and, and yeah.
• 33:34
  Peter: And existing rather than like trying to fix everything.
• 33:37
  Peter: Uh, but reason I say that is just because I think that idealism and that, that that optimism sort of dogged optimism in times of.
• 33:49
  Peter: Darkness.
• 33:49
  Peter: Yeah, it's uh, I'm very grateful to have been given that maybe in my first four years on Yeah.
• 33:56
  Peter: The planet, you know?
• 33:58
  Glen Erickson: Well, I think you know the world, like world by the world, like whether it be media or whatever version like that dogged at optimism, it gets painted a little glossy, which can be very repelling.
• 34:09
  Glen Erickson: To people who are more in touch with their darkness.
• 34:11
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 34:12
  Glen Erickson: Which is why we sort of like, do not steer that way for a long time until all of a sudden you realize joy is a good thing.
• 34:18
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 34:18
  Glen Erickson: I think even going back, like you had said, I, I wanna avoid token, some tokenism stuff.
• 34:23
  Glen Erickson: I, there's no, I think there's no hint of tokenism and what you said.
• 34:26
  Glen Erickson: I think, I think that there's such a legacy of the tortured poet in, in the music industry, and I mean there's all kinds of.
• 34:35
  Glen Erickson: You know, biopsy, like documentaries even of course, right.
• 34:39
  Glen Erickson: About some of the most famous ones.
• 34:40
  Glen Erickson: And the question being asked to like, did our love of the person actually drive them?
• 34:45
  Glen Erickson: Because they started leaning in to those things that weren't good for them, but somehow were good for the curated, performative sort of stature.
• 34:54
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 34:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 34:54
  Peter: It's like if you.
• 34:55
  Peter: Um, if you grow up on thinking that insanity and, uh, chaos breeds good art.
• 35:04
  Peter: Yeah.
• 35:05
  Peter: And you sign off on that and you think that's the only way to make good art.
• 35:08
  Peter: Yeah.
• 35:08
  Peter: Then I think, uh, you, if you're invested in making that art, you're stealing your own fade in, in a direction.
• 35:15
  Peter: But, you know, I still think that, um, I don't know.
• 35:20
  Peter: I mean, I guess.
• 35:21
  Glen Erickson: Well, let me ask you this.
• 35:22
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 35:22
  Glen Erickson: You already hinted at this.
• 35:23
  Glen Erickson: like you obviously said you sort of explored all of those things'cause you were making this Peter Dreams record.
• 35:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 35:29
  Glen Erickson: Like right in that deadline, that of this due date that's hanging you over you.
• 35:34
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 35:35
  Glen Erickson: That's sort of as a heard and read.
• 35:37
  Glen Erickson: Like those things were all like mulled together.
• 35:39
  Glen Erickson: So you're like mining all this stuff outta yourself and it is an incredibly vulnerable record Right.
• 35:45
  Glen Erickson: To put out.
• 35:46
  Glen Erickson: Um, but now you've had the child.
• 35:48
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 35:48
  Glen Erickson: And I'm really curious, as it did it palpably change right away?
• 35:54
  Glen Erickson: Like your ability to sort of like lean into the darkness and lean on that for the songwriting and come up with some great material and come out with that around the subject of what you were wrestling with for this child as the father, as your own example.
• 36:12
  Glen Erickson: I am wondering how quickly that maybe started to shift for you and what that felt like.
• 36:17
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, it's
• 36:17
  Peter: a great question.
• 36:18
  Peter: I think the, the truth is so often found in the mundane or the, or the moderation of the in-between, right?
• 36:30
  Peter: Mm-hmm.
• 36:30
  Peter: It's like you have these very vast heady statements that can be made and then once you start living it, you actually recognize that the.
• 36:41
  Peter: That the extremes aren't always the source of the truth.
• 36:44
  Peter: It's actually somewhere in between.
• 36:45
  Peter: Yeah, so, so I guess by actually becoming a parent and having all of the sleepless nights and hustling to make work happen in between and witnessing what it's like between the connection of a mother and a child and seeing that, you know, like for instance, it's like that Bry Webb.
• 37:06
  Peter: Line from the Constantine.
• 37:07
  Peter: He has a solo record called Provider and he has an, uh, a lyric, I don't wanna screw it up, but it's something like, zebra standing in on the moon, looking down upon the earth, helpless in the operating room as the wife is giving birth.
• 37:23
  Peter: And I think, you know, with the utmost respect and love to all mothers.
• 37:30
  Peter: That might be listening to this, God, you support the earth and all of us.
• 37:35
  Peter: But I think the male experience of witnessing mm-hmm.
• 37:40
  Peter: That support and that love often feels very confusing because you're there and you're trying to support your kid and you want to be there for them and, and be a part of their life and carry half the weight and do all you know and ultimately.
• 37:58
  Peter: Um, there's things you can't do, you know?
• 38:00
  Peter: And, and, and that bond is so real.
• 38:01
  Peter: So I think since having a kid I've had, uh, it's been humbling.
• 38:06
  Peter: Mm-hmm.
• 38:06
  Peter: And I, and I just adore the time I get to spend.
• 38:11
  Peter: and, and I wish I could do more.
• 38:13
  Peter: I mean, Spencer Krug, I did a song with him called Certain Father.
• 38:17
  Peter: We did a song called Certain Father on last July talk record, and he had just had a kid, I think his kid was like two or something, and he spoke quite a bit about how hard it was to witness just the burden that lands on the mother.
• 38:33
  Peter: Mm-hmm.
• 38:34
  Peter: Um.
• 38:35
  Peter: And knowing that you can't provide all that support.
• 38:38
  Peter: Um, so I dunno, I guess that's where my head's been at with it a little bit lately is, is, is learning from a position of that humility and learning to be kind to myself and just enjoy the time that I get to spend.
• 38:52
  Peter: Mm-hmm.
• 38:53
  Peter: as a, as a, as a father and, and, uh, and I think the sort of matter of life and death.
• 39:01
  Peter: That some of those songs pre fatherhood took on.
• 39:06
  Peter: I guess now here's life, here's death.
• 39:10
  Peter: You know, I'm, I'm finding myself to the in between.
• 39:12
  Peter: Yeah.
• 39:13
  Peter: Where I'm, I'm really kind of just reckoning with the day to day.
• 39:17
  Peter: Again, I'm trying to create a stable atmosphere and like a dependability.
• 39:21
  Peter: Yeah.
• 39:21
  Peter: You know, and, and it's more just like, okay, let's get down to business.
• 39:25
  Peter: You know what I mean?
• 39:26
  Peter: Like, let's like really take it on Life is each day so much
• 39:28
  Glen Erickson: both and
• 39:29
  Peter: Right.
• 39:29
  Peter: It's
• 39:29
  Glen Erickson: like Exactly.
• 39:30
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 39:30
  Glen Erickson: It's gotta always be both and
• 39:31
  Peter: yeah.
• 39:32
  Peter: Life is right there.
• 39:32
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 39:33
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 39:33
  Glen Erickson: Death is right there.
• 39:34
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 39:34
  Glen Erickson: Go on.
• 39:35
  Glen Erickson: So, so I guess one of my big questions, my curiosities, I should say about the record.
• 39:40
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I think artistically it's super relatable to people.
• 39:44
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, of course.
• 39:44
  Glen Erickson: Uh, of all sort of dcra mediums, but like you'd been doing.
• 39:49
  Glen Erickson: Uh, July talk for well over a decade.
• 39:51
  Glen Erickson: You had, you know, grown into this pattern cycle pattern often of developing and living the persona because like, even like right now, like you sit down in a chair and I get to know a million things about you, it's not vice versa, right?
• 40:05
  Glen Erickson: And at some point in your career that flips right.
• 40:07
  Glen Erickson: You're.
• 40:08
  Glen Erickson: For everybody to know who you are.
• 40:09
  Glen Erickson: And then all of a sudden it's like everybody knows everything and I know nothing.
• 40:12
  Glen Erickson: And, and so you've developed a persona, you've been writing songs, you've been putting them out, but in that sort of group version of, of what comes out, but then you make this solo record, it's clearly got such vulnerable material like you were just talking about, about yourself and being so honest.
• 40:30
  Glen Erickson: There's a song about your sister also related, of course, children and childbirth and like super painful to get out.
• 40:37
  Glen Erickson: I'm wondering if despite all of your experience and thick skinning of all those years with the band, was it still hard to put something out that vulnerable?
• 40:50
  Glen Erickson: Because the process of making something and then giving it to the world for them to interpret are two different things.
• 40:56
  Glen Erickson: Two different things.
• 40:56
  Peter: Yeah.
• 40:57
  Peter: It was funny.
• 40:58
  Peter: I had a conversation with my.
• 41:00
  Peter: Uh, my mom after I got off stage in Toronto in February when we did the Big Toronto kind of release show, and, uh, I think when I found out I was gonna become parent, I knew that I had to contribute in a way that I was gonna have to just go find another project.
• 41:24
  Peter: Um, in order to like, bring, provide for the family.
• 41:28
  Peter: and so it was like, okay, it makes sense.
• 41:29
  Peter: I'll do my own record.
• 41:31
  Peter: And I didn't feel, uh, I didn't think much about releasing it, as you say.
• 41:37
  Peter: And I sat down and I got the songs together.
• 41:40
  Peter: A lot of them, some of them were older songs, some of them were brand new.
• 41:44
  Peter: And I think because.
• 41:48
  Peter: My contract with authenticity is such that I feel I have to kind of put my own skin in the game to make something vital or worthwhile, right?
• 41:57
  Peter: So if I sit down and write a song, I feel I need to like, put something in it that's like a more so of deep truth that shares something so that it, it matters.
• 42:07
  Peter: And maybe that's not a fair contract, but it's one that I've signed with myself at this point.
• 42:12
  Peter: Yeah.
• 42:12
  Peter: Um.
• 42:14
  Peter: And so I didn't think much about releasing it.
• 42:16
  Peter: Mm-hmm.
• 42:16
  Peter: But I was putting all of this, these things forward.
• 42:20
  Peter: So throughout the process I was just staying true to what I felt was honest and what was authentic and what was correct and how to approach this thing.
• 42:29
  Peter: And then when it came time to share.
• 42:33
  Peter: I was just trying to be as honest as possible in sharing it.
• 42:35
  Peter: Like in this conversation with you, I'm having right now.
• 42:37
  Peter: Yeah.
• 42:38
  Peter: And I'm never thinking tons about the consequences of that sharing.
• 42:45
  Peter: and maybe I should, but I think that it's like all part of, I think the fortune of living the life that I've loved living so much and being able to travel and share ideas and I'm joining.
• 43:00
  Peter: You know, hundreds of generations before me of people that traveled around and shared their ideas and their songs and tried to reflect what they felt coming from the world back at the world.
• 43:14
  Peter: And that's just like, that's as old as time in every culture.
• 43:18
  Peter: Yeah.
• 43:18
  Peter: You know, and, and I think
• 43:21
  Glen Erickson: definitely fits that Rick Rubin philosophy of the audience being last.
• 43:25
  Peter: Interesting.
• 43:26
  Peter: Yeah.
• 43:26
  Peter: Of not it's caring.
• 43:27
  Peter: True.
• 43:27
  Peter: And, and it's not as if I wasn't.
• 43:28
  Peter: Um, not that you were trying, I'm always conscious of the audience when I'm making art.
• 43:33
  Peter: I'm definitely not somebody who's making it for myself to listen to.
• 43:36
  Peter: 'cause I don't really listen to it now.
• 43:37
  Peter: It's the, now it's the worlds, you know?
• 43:39
  Peter: Yeah.
• 43:40
  Peter: But I do think that, uh, in this condition in particular, I guess I was standing there on the balcony with my mom after I played the show, and I learned a lot from my mom about how to frame ideas.
• 43:52
  Peter: She was a journalist at the Mont Journal for 30 years or whatever, and.
• 43:56
  Peter: It's a great writer.
• 43:58
  Peter: And I thought, and I was like, I never thought about how I, I just was trying to be as honest as possible, but I never thought about how vulnerable this would feel, you know?
• 44:08
  Peter: And, and she was very encouraging, but it is, it's something that, uh, yeah, I think it's my job to just sort of, yeah.
• 44:17
  Peter: Shamelessly,
• 44:19
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 44:19
  Peter: Put it out there and, and if I don't think like.
• 44:24
  Peter: I don't know if anybody throws any negativity back at me for doing so.
• 44:27
  Peter: Like I can't imagine being affected by it at this point.
• 44:30
  Peter: 'cause like bigger fish to fry.
• 44:32
  Peter: Yeah.
• 44:33
  Peter: You know what I mean?
• 44:33
  Peter: Like I got, well, I mean life to live.
• 44:35
  Peter: Well, speaking of tokenism, I
• 44:36
  Glen Erickson: mean there's like gendered conversation, tokenism, but I, I do still really believe how important right now it is that the vulnerability of men is available.
• 44:47
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 44:48
  Glen Erickson: In the world.
• 44:48
  Glen Erickson: So I think that it's really fantastic and that's why it's.
• 44:52
  Glen Erickson: It stuck out to me.
• 44:53
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 44:53
  Glen Erickson: That this is knowing personally that it's two different things.
• 44:58
  Peter: Yeah.
• 44:59
  Glen Erickson: And having gone through that myself and not anywhere on a scale.
• 45:02
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 45:03
  Glen Erickson: So, uh, I was just curious what your experience.
• 45:06
  Glen Erickson: I don't know.
• 45:06
  Glen Erickson: It's hard to know.
• 45:07
  Peter: I, I, I, yeah.
• 45:08
  Peter: I, I'm not somebody, and I hope that you can understand, it's like I'm not somebody that thinks a lot about that, you know, Eamon and I always used to have a term that was like a.
• 45:16
  Peter: You know, I'm, I'm trying not to be in the business of overthinking things.
• 45:19
  Peter: Yeah.
• 45:20
  Peter: You know, or, or Neil Young has the, like, you think you stink kind of rule, you know?
• 45:24
  Peter: Yeah.
• 45:24
  Peter: And I don't know, in this, in this age of like social media, like framing yourself and all this stuff, like, I kind of avoid that shit at all costs.
• 45:34
  Peter: And, and to, by that I mean.
• 45:36
  Peter: Overthinking what I'm, who I am to the world and all that.
• 45:40
  Peter: I just try, I think it's like this, like I said, I think it's like a deep contract I have with myself where I'm just like, if something doesn't need to exist, don't make it exist.
• 45:50
  Peter: Like if you're writing a song and you're sitting down and it's like, feels kind of boring and it doesn't contribute anything to the world.
• 45:58
  Peter: Yeah.
• 45:58
  Peter: And like just
• 45:59
  Glen Erickson: don't, it definitely feels like the artist contract.
• 46:02
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, exactly.
• 46:02
  Glen Erickson: Which is like, right.
• 46:04
  Glen Erickson: I create,'cause I need to.
• 46:05
  Glen Erickson: Pull something out of nothing and make it something.
• 46:08
  Glen Erickson: I think.
• 46:08
  Glen Erickson: So that's what artists, so, so yeah.
• 46:10
  Glen Erickson: Uh, that totally makes sense.
• 46:11
  Peter: Yeah.
• 46:12
  Peter: Like I definitely hear it sometimes, not to shit on any other artists at all, but like, when somebody's forcing something out when they have to, when the record labels Yeah.
• 46:20
  Peter: Friction'em to come up with that sophomore record or, and, and they just don't really, you know, the songs are about touring.
• 46:26
  Peter: Right.
• 46:26
  Peter: You know, that kind of stuff.
• 46:27
  Peter: Yeah.
• 46:27
  Peter: It's like you feel for those folks, you know.
• 46:29
  Peter: Uh, but, uh.
• 46:31
  Peter: No, I, I'm very lucky, and it's something I said, you know, before, but I'll say again, it's just like, the reason that I'm able to do any of that is just because I'm like very fortunate with friends and loved ones and family around me that like encourages me and makes me feel safe enough to do it.
• 46:48
  Peter: You know?
• 46:49
  Peter: Yeah.
• 46:49
  Peter: That's a
• 46:49
  Glen Erickson: what
• 46:49
  Peter: a blessing.
• 46:50
  Peter: What a blessing.
• 46:51
  Peter: And yeah.
• 46:51
  Peter: And that like all stems, uh, just from like, I'm so grateful, you know, when I moved to Toronto, I was really brought in by this.
• 47:00
  Peter: Group of artists, first and foremost, from Peterborough of all places that they had all gone to this art school in Peterborough that's quite similar to Vic here.
• 47:06
  Peter: Hmm.
• 47:07
  Peter: It's called, it was called PCDS.
• 47:08
  Peter: It closed now.
• 47:10
  Peter: But like incredible artists went there.
• 47:11
  Peter: Like Serena Ryder went there.
• 47:13
  Peter: You know, a bunch of filmmakers that I've worked with, Jared Rab, um, there's so many great artists that came outta that school and when I moved I just kinda like fell into that scene with Josh and Jared and all these people and Robin love, you know.
• 47:27
  Peter: And I've just been really lucky with, with those friend groups.
• 47:30
  Peter: Mm.
• 47:30
  Peter: And like, and uh, and I think if anybody listening is, you know, interested in this kind of thing, it's like, I think we all have the ability to just like, make our friends feel safe to do things that are scary.
• 47:45
  Peter: Mm.
• 47:46
  Peter: You know what I mean?
• 47:47
  Peter: Yeah.
• 47:47
  Peter: Like look at each other in the eyes and be like, you can do this.
• 47:49
  Peter: Go do this.
• 47:50
  Peter: I can tell you want to do this, go do it.
• 47:53
  Peter: You know?
• 47:53
  Peter: And, and that's why.
• 47:55
  Peter: Scary things get made.
• 47:56
  Peter: You know what I mean?
• 47:56
  Peter: Yeah.
• 47:56
  Peter: That's awesome.
• 47:57
  Peter: And I see the same thing with the ship.
• 47:59
  Peter: Like the reason Ryan Coogler is really able to do what he does when I've witnessed him firsthand in the moment is because his wife, Zinzi, is the producer on all the movies, supports him.
• 48:12
  Peter: Unabashedly so hard since forever.
• 48:15
  Peter: His best bud, Michael B.
• 48:17
  Peter: Jordan, is in all the movies.
• 48:19
  Peter: Louvin Gore and his other Bud does all the score.
• 48:21
  Peter: Like that guy is, that is a supported person.
• 48:23
  Peter: His whole family wants him to super power.
• 48:26
  Peter: It's a superpower in the business.
• 48:27
  Peter: It's a superpower and, and I, and I'm not comparing myself to him at all, but I'm just saying that that friends and family, the way in which somEamone is surrounded and held up, you know, I think that's like.
• 48:40
  Peter: That's where, where, yeah, we can find, you know what we need to find.
• 48:45
  Glen Erickson: We're, we're really close up against your Fair enough.
• 48:46
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 48:47
  Glen Erickson: Hard stop.
• 48:47
  Glen Erickson: So I'm glad you mentioned sinners.
• 48:49
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:49
  Glen Erickson: So I just wanted to throw in, well at least throw in, being involved with that must have been absolutely incredible.
• 48:56
  Glen Erickson: Like to go from zero to a hundred like that.
• 49:00
  Glen Erickson: Um.
• 49:01
  Glen Erickson: I mean, anybody who looks up your role in that as Bert, it was like incredible a supporting role your way in the story of your way in through that song.
• 49:09
  Glen Erickson: Which by the way, uh, I was a big Walking Dead fan, and I just went right through that, assuming that that was Tom Waites.
• 49:15
  Glen Erickson: I never even looked it up, right?
• 49:17
  Glen Erickson: Like it was like, I just thought this must be some weird Tom Waites version of a CCR song, uh, that that was your way into that movie.
• 49:24
  Glen Erickson: I have a couple questions.
• 49:25
  Glen Erickson: I would hopefully, of course they can be quick answers, but one is.
• 49:30
  Glen Erickson: well, I heard you say on with Tom Power that the very first thought you had was, I need to work out.
• 49:34
  Glen Erickson: I guess my second thought is like, you're presented with that character and what it is, and this is going to be your first role on a, but a huge role and you're gonna play, you know, a Jim Crow era.
• 49:48
  Glen Erickson: Like southern thirties, white supremacist, hillbilly ish guy.
• 49:53
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 49:54
  Glen Erickson: Who's like really good at music and a vampire, which is cool parts of it.
• 49:58
  Glen Erickson: But I mean, did you have any fear?
• 50:01
  Glen Erickson: I'm wondering is there any fear attached to like, this is what now people of course.
• 50:06
  Glen Erickson: Think of me like, am I making the, well, you're also going
• 50:08
  Peter: and doing it in the south.
• 50:10
  Peter: You know, we were filming in New Orleans with a largely local crew to New Orleans who has a lot of the films that got get made in the South are about slavery or are period pieces surrounding slavery.
• 50:25
  Peter: And the history of the oppression of black people in the South.
• 50:28
  Peter: Um, and so they've had to watch these stories get replayed told, replayed and told replayed Wow.
• 50:33
  Peter: And some of which have been told in a really beautiful way, uh, like prioritizing the black experience.
• 50:39
  Peter: And some have been told in a sort of trauma porn way that, you know, seems regrettable.
• 50:44
  Peter: I think as it ages.
• 50:45
  Peter: Um, I think within this scenario, it didn't cross my mind.
• 50:51
  Peter: To shield myself from that experience when it was such a prominent, brilliant black director asking me to do it.
• 51:01
  Peter: Because to me, the only way in which, the only thing that that would've done would be a distance myself from the inconvenience of feeling the weight of that history.
• 51:12
  Peter: Right?
• 51:12
  Peter: Yeah.
• 51:13
  Peter: So to me it was like, well, if this guy says jump, I'm gonna say how high?
• 51:16
  Peter: Like I just want.
• 51:17
  Peter: To portray his vision and help him do that by any means necessary.
• 51:23
  Peter: Now, I still had to say the N word on screen, you know, and I've had people that I love and respect express their discomfort with me doing that.
• 51:34
  Peter: And disappointment probably.
• 51:35
  Peter: And disappointment, you know, hurts.
• 51:37
  Peter: It hurts, but it's like I think, you know, I tried my best to approach that.
• 51:43
  Peter: Particular specific experience as best I could.
• 51:47
  Peter: Brian and I discussed it, you know, it wasn't said in rehearsals at all.
• 51:52
  Peter: It was, it was said at a bare minimum of what needed to be done for the, mm-hmm.
• 51:56
  Peter: For the film, you know, wanting to pronounce these pronunciations and the dialect and all these things.
• 52:01
  Peter: I guess I just, like I said, I think it was just really important to me, here is somebody that's asking for my help.
• 52:09
  Peter: That's the bottom line.
• 52:11
  Peter: And this isn't a character that is being glorified or simplified to just being evil either.
• 52:18
  Peter: Yeah.
• 52:18
  Peter: Um, this is a character that is trying to be, uh, like all of Kugler's films, you know, the villains aren't entirely villainous and the heroes aren't entirely heroic.
• 52:27
  Peter: Yeah.
• 52:27
  Peter: That's pretty great.
• 52:28
  Peter: Uh, so yeah, it was very complicated.
• 52:31
  Peter: But I would say the, what I recognized is like, okay, well let's say I got high and mighty and said, no, no, I don't want to play that character.
• 52:38
  Peter: Well, then somebody else is gonna do it.
• 52:40
  Peter: Yeah.
• 52:40
  Peter: And I don't think that helps anyone.
• 52:43
  Peter: I think for me it was just like, this is the story that I really trust the people that are making it.
• 52:47
  Peter: And so I just wanted to contribute in whatever way I could.
• 52:50
  Peter: But it was entirely not complicated, you know?
• 52:53
  Peter: Yeah.
• 52:53
  Peter: Uh, sorry.
• 52:54
  Peter: It was entirely complicated.
• 52:55
  Peter: You know, I was going through, you know, it was spinning through my mind and yeah, I definitely wanted to do it, uh, justice and, and portray the history and whatever.
• 53:04
  Peter: Yeah.
• 53:04
  Peter: Accurately we could.
• 53:06
  Glen Erickson: Well it was, it was amazing.
• 53:08
  Glen Erickson: It was pretty incredible.
• 53:09
  Glen Erickson: I thought you nailed whatever.
• 53:10
  Peter: Yeah.
• 53:11
  Peter: I mean obviously it was a small part of an absolute juggernaut.
• 53:15
  Peter: Yeah.
• 53:15
  Peter: Project and just to be able to witness that history of a film that I think Will, will really be sticking around and like Yeah, I think so.
• 53:23
  Peter: Conversation.
• 53:24
  Peter: I think so.
• 53:24
  Peter: I'm very grateful for it.
• 53:25
  Glen Erickson: Well, Peter, this has, uh, been amazing.
• 53:27
  Glen Erickson: You've been so generous with your time and your like, thanks personal Tory and everything.
• 53:32
  Glen Erickson: I know we whipped through a whole bunch of stuff really fast, but, uh, I know I'm deeply appreciative of the whole thing.
• 53:39
  Glen Erickson: I'm looking forward to seeing you guys play.
• 53:41
  Glen Erickson: Can't believe you playing a Richie Hall show.
• 53:42
  Glen Erickson: Here's, that's gonna be so amazing.
• 53:44
  Glen Erickson: 2025 seems like quite a year, but the Sinners movie and your Your Dreams Project and.
• 53:50
  Glen Erickson: I, I'm sure there's still July talk in the a hundred percent in the, in the work.
• 53:55
  Glen Erickson: So, uh, I just wanna wish you all the best.
• 53:58
  Glen Erickson: Thank you.
• 53:58
  Glen Erickson: And, uh, say thanks.
• 53:59
  Glen Erickson: I
• 53:59
  Peter: appreciate it, man.
• 54:00
  Glen Erickson: Thanks so much for having Okay.
• 54:01
  Glen Erickson: Great job.
• 54:01
  Glen Erickson: Thanks man.
• 54:02
  Glen Erickson: Thank you.
• 54:02
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 54:09
  Glen: You all good?
• 54:10
  alexi: Oh yeah,
• 54:11
  Glen: And you showed me your notes, so I'll take that as All good, all
• 54:15
  alexi: like basically,
• 54:17
  Glen: to go?
• 54:18
  Glen: Yep,
• 54:18
  alexi: of course,
• 54:19
  Glen: of course.
• 54:20
  Glen: Okay, well let's talk about 20.
• 54:23
  Glen: Peter Dreams, which, uh, I've talked to a lot of people about in advance because, uh, it was one of my conversations just.
• 54:34
  Glen: just in context, not like, you know, competition or anything like that, it's just, um, it was the
• 54:41
  alexi: Yeah.
• 54:42
  Glen: person I've to do, you know.
• 54:45
  Glen: And,
• 54:46
  alexi: Yeah.
• 54:47
  Glen: you know, full disclosure made, you know, a couple of mistakes to learn from as far as like setting up my audio equipment, recording and, um.
• 54:57
  Glen: lost a couple bits from the conversation, but you know,
• 55:01
  alexi: Yeah,
• 55:02
  Glen: we're okay we're we come out.
• 55:03
  Glen: We came out okay.
• 55:04
  Glen: But
• 55:05
  alexi: it was good.
• 55:06
  Glen: but having a conversation with somebody in person real
• 55:10
  alexi: Mm-hmm.
• 55:11
  Glen: and getting just that, I don't know what the right word is'cause I don't ever want to be the person who uses the word vibe, but getting that thing from somebody.
• 55:23
  alexi: Yeah.
• 55:24
  Glen: real life is so different.
• 55:26
  Glen: And he uh, did I, did I describe it to you?
• 55:30
  Glen: Like, like if you see his pictures and his like photo shoot photos and, and, um, he's, he's got like these very pronounced eyes, right?
• 55:42
  Glen: Um, but they are like piercing in real life.
• 55:48
  Glen: Like, like look right through you because.
• 55:52
  Glen: Because at the same time, he's a person who doesn't just sort of show up and like, I'm a stranger to him at that point.
• 55:59
  alexi: Yeah.
• 55:59
  Glen: And he was clearly not a person who just shows up to do the job.
• 56:04
  alexi: Mm-hmm.
• 56:05
  Glen: But he shows up to be a person with you.
• 56:09
  alexi: Yeah.
• 56:11
  Glen: and I think that immediate depth sort of fueled the, this guy is looking right through me right now and, um.
• 56:21
  Glen: And I loved it.
• 56:22
  Glen: Like I, I absolutely loved having that kind of a conversation where he was clearly willing to just s tell anything like it was and, and
• 56:32
  alexi: Hey,
• 56:33
  Glen: yeah.
• 56:34
  alexi: I was gonna say like all my notes, like, and all my notes are like as specific as sometimes they are like, you know, sometimes I'll have like pulled quotes and whatnot and like I have one, but all my notes kind of allude to.
• 56:46
  alexi: I guess like the depth of your guys' talk and there's like a couple places where I, like, I wrote like a note about like depth of talk and then I put like IRL question mark and then like a couple other things and I was just like face to face.
• 57:01
  alexi: And I think I was gonna ask like two things first.
• 57:06
  alexi: Like do think that you got kind of like a different experience out of it because it was face-to-face, like, um.
• 57:15
  alexi: People, you know, like, you know, hopping on like the Zoom call with someone, you know, like there's already that level of comfortability, but like for the Zoom calls you've taken with people you haven't known prior versus like meeting with someone face to face prior, like, do you think it made that significant like of a difference?
• 57:30
  alexi: Because I kind of, I feel like it did.
• 57:33
  Glen: I think that's a good question.
• 57:34
  Glen: And from your perspective, um, I a hundred percent feel like it did.
• 57:40
  Glen: Like I've had these calls with people that I've known a long time.
• 57:44
  Glen: And because there's that, just familiarity, but actual like love for each other, that
• 57:50
  alexi: Yeah.
• 57:51
  Glen: that kind of does the work of trying to reach through the screen to a
• 57:55
  alexi: Yeah.
• 57:56
  Glen: And, and those have been really nice.
• 57:59
  Glen: I think that he has this personality that could probably better than most with a stranger reach through the screen, but
• 58:10
  alexi: say, I'm like, is it IRL or is it like him or is it both?
• 58:14
  Glen: It is first and foremost, him
• 58:17
  alexi: Yeah.
• 58:17
  Glen: hundred percent.
• 58:18
  Glen: Like I walked away with so much admiration for this guy and, and, and it comes from a few things.
• 58:25
  Glen: It comes from having spent a lot of time musicians in this business, right?
• 58:32
  Glen: I could just tell you, and that's where it's partially me.
• 58:35
  Glen: I could tell you this is the kind of guy that I would've grown up around the scene in.
• 58:40
  Glen: gravitated towards like he's the kind of guy I wanted to be like
• 58:44
  alexi: Yeah.
• 58:45
  Glen: and with more importantly than like with in the music scene, right?
• 58:49
  Glen: Like that's the kind of, anyhow, so yeah, it's a little bit of me too to say that was like significantly better, but I
• 59:00
  alexi: Yeah.
• 59:01
  Glen: by him.
• 59:03
  Glen: And to be completely honest, I think I'm better in those situations
• 59:07
  alexi: Mm-hmm.
• 59:08
  Glen: um.
• 59:10
  Glen: So the whole thing just felt so natural and so enjoyable as a result.
• 59:15
  Glen: Right.
• 59:17
  Glen: yeah.
• 59:18
  Glen: But yeah, it was like pretty, his ability, like you said, laying there like, like we went pretty deep on some things.
• 59:26
  Glen: Right.
• 59:27
  Glen: So, like I, I feel like it all started with.
• 59:33
  Glen: I referenced a guy from the Edmonton scene, Amon McGrath, ended up becoming a big part of the whole conversation.
• 59:41
  Glen: because the whole, like, it kind of felt like, stand by me ish.
• 59:47
  Glen: Do you know what I mean?
• 59:47
  Glen: Like, here's the, the guys that I ran with when I was a kid, right.
• 59:52
  Glen: Type
• 59:53
  alexi: Yeah.
• 59:53
  Glen: whole like, coming of age together, um, story like, I.
• 1:00:00
  Glen: Impossibly woven in to every other part of his story.
• 1:00:05
  Glen: And, and a Amen was a huge part.
• 1:00:07
  Glen: And so like for those who don't know,'cause it got mentioned so much like a Amens and Edmonton based.
• 1:00:12
  Glen: Kind of singer songwriter
• 1:00:15
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:00:15
  Glen: been like the modern version of Troubadour for a long time.
• 1:00:19
  Glen: And there's a couple of great ones out of Edmonton, but a guy named Scott Cook is another one in the folk industry.
• 1:00:25
  Glen: But you know, a amen's like traveled the world and he just keeps finding gigs and making records and writing songs and just, know what I mean?
• 1:00:34
  Glen: It's not this typical'cause you hear me talk a lot about the podcast with artists about trajectories of careers.
• 1:00:40
  alexi: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:41
  Glen: And,
• 1:00:41
  alexi: It's not that typical.
• 1:00:43
  Glen: yeah, and there's artists who jump off the trajectory, right?
• 1:00:47
  Glen: And just keep doing it.
• 1:00:50
  Glen: That's all that matters to them.
• 1:00:51
  Glen: Um, I think a amen's one of those guys, and I didn't, I knew that they were close.
• 1:00:57
  Glen: I didn't know it was the whole, we grew up down in Riverdale and,
• 1:01:01
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:01:01
  Glen: a little community kind of close, like, so all of that was really cool, but it really led into his being vulnerable about.
• 1:01:10
  Glen: of the biggest lessons he's learned about how he was being self-destructive and how closely that's tied to an ethic, if I wanna call it that in the music scene sometimes, like,
• 1:01:23
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  Glen: so there was a lot of vulnerability that stemmed outta that, but that's who Aon was.
• 1:01:29
  Glen: And, and for us, like me and the Angus brothers.
• 1:01:33
  Glen: Uh, we, we loved a Amen's music and looked up to him a lot and would make a point maybe if we were in Toronto and a Amen was in Toronto to go see his gig or know what I mean?
• 1:01:44
  alexi: Awesome.
• 1:01:45
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  Glen: a lot of point of reference for me and probably people who've been around Edmonton at least for a while.
• 1:01:52
  alexi: Mm-hmm.
• 1:01:53
  alexi: Well, my other point was like,'cause you mentioned is like, um.
• 1:02:00
  alexi: Uh, his, when he was talking about, like, talking with his mom after playing a show and like learning that like, um, he was like, oh, I learned a lot from this moment, like talking with his mom.
• 1:02:11
  alexi: And he was like, oh, just like how to frame my ideas properly and how like vulnerable that feels.
• 1:02:18
  alexi: And then the different layer of like putting it out there, which I've known, we talked about.
• 1:02:22
  alexi: Um, but then I was like, oh, that's really interesting.
• 1:02:24
  alexi: And I was like thinking on that.
• 1:02:25
  alexi: But then his other quote that he built.
• 1:02:28
  alexi: Later on from that was, he was like, it's my job to shamelessly put it out there.
• 1:02:33
  alexi: And then he was kind of talking about, he's like, oh, if I get like any negativity from it, like I'm not affected by it.
• 1:02:39
  alexi: And I'd also just like love that because I think so many artists just talk about like, oh yeah, like, you know, it's like hard to put your stuff out there and then they just kinda leave it at that, you know, like you hear that like a lot.
• 1:02:50
  alexi: Like, it's just like, oh, like,
• 1:02:51
  Glen: It's a loop
• 1:02:54
  alexi: oh yeah.
• 1:02:54
  Glen: right?
• 1:02:55
  Glen: And, and if you live in that loop, in other words, I'm doing this, but I need the validation back after then on scale can turn on you really fast.
• 1:03:08
  Glen: And so, yeah, I loved that point too, which is he's saying he's figured out how to cut the loop off, where it's like, I do is I make it and I put it out there after that, it's
• 1:03:19
  alexi: Hmm.
• 1:03:19
  Glen: anymore.
• 1:03:21
  Glen: So I
• 1:03:21
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:03:22
  Glen: concerned about what comes back.
• 1:03:24
  Glen: That's
• 1:03:25
  alexi: And I love how like it was mature.
• 1:03:28
  alexi: I love how genuine it was too.
• 1:03:29
  alexi: 'cause like he could have accidentally phrased that in a way that could have like, came off cocky, you know, like, oh, negativity.
• 1:03:35
  alexi: Like I don't care.
• 1:03:36
  alexi: Like I'm not affected by it.
• 1:03:38
  alexi: Like I don't care what people think.
• 1:03:39
  alexi: And like it was just like, you could tell it was like the zero that, which I also love.
• 1:03:43
  alexi: It was just, just like it was coming from a place of like vulnerability instead of like overconfidence,
• 1:03:50
  Glen: Yeah,
• 1:03:50
  alexi: I.
• 1:03:52
  alexi: I'm a fan of.
• 1:03:53
  Glen: Yeah, he, he had so many bits like that where in the moment I could tell, um, like, like there were a number of edits that I made to close up really long gaps.
• 1:04:10
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:04:11
  Glen: And part of me wishes I didn't, but part of me just knows it's a podcast.
• 1:04:17
  alexi: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:18
  Glen: if you were there in the room in the moment, right, you would feel the weight of those gaps while he's thinking about his response.
• 1:04:27
  alexi: Responses.
• 1:04:28
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:04:28
  Glen: And because the responses him had to be true, right?
• 1:04:34
  Glen: So he would go in and find the truth to bring it out.
• 1:04:40
  Glen: That again, the in real life part, I guess I'm hearkening back to that, which like you get caught up in that pace and of a
• 1:04:48
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:04:49
  Glen: when somebody is being reflective and truthful, but not like in a heavy way.
• 1:04:56
  Glen: It was still like.
• 1:04:59
  Glen: This is how he does things.
• 1:05:00
  Glen: And I guess that's what really impressed me too, is that he's just willing access that information with a complete stranger like that.
• 1:05:08
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:05:08
  Glen: And, and not because he just like, not for, you know, there's lots of reasons that that could happen, but, but because he's willing to try.
• 1:05:19
  Glen: Bridge a gap of a conversation with me that it's just for an hour.
• 1:05:24
  Glen: But anyhow,
• 1:05:25
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:05:27
  Glen: clearly it left an impact on me and, and the intro part to this episode where I'm going on about, um, where I actually got the real truth.
• 1:05:39
  Glen: So what really impacted me, I loved the interview, right?
• 1:05:42
  Glen: Impacted me.
• 1:05:44
  Glen: But what really hit me was two days later when I went to that private hall show that he invited me
• 1:05:50
  alexi: Right.
• 1:05:51
  Glen: and I saw him and how he was with every, no not live on the floor, talking to
• 1:05:59
  alexi: Oh yeah.
• 1:06:00
  Glen: were all there for him and his friends was ex looked the same as family to me it's
• 1:06:07
  alexi: Hmm.
• 1:06:08
  Glen: it would, it would be like all of the Riverdale neighborhood came out.
• 1:06:12
  Glen: To support like kid who grew up and did really well and, and it felt like that.
• 1:06:18
  Glen: And you learn more about the truth about somebody is what I say in the intro, like about seeing that than just what I thought was a great conversation that had vulnerability.
• 1:06:29
  Glen: man, did it ever back it up?
• 1:06:31
  Glen: I guess that's, put those two together, that's how I really got impacted.
• 1:06:35
  Glen: Um.
• 1:06:36
  Glen: There was so many things I even wanted to talk to him about that I didn't get to.
• 1:06:40
  Glen: Uh, I probably would've talked to him more about the Sinners movie that he was in, which is such a, such a good movie.
• 1:06:47
  Glen: And, um, and he didn't play like a, like, it wasn't like a huge role, but it wasn't like, you know, that part where it's like everybody watch.
• 1:06:57
  Glen: You know, you're gonna see me for 30 seconds, type that, you know what I mean?
• 1:07:01
  Glen: It wasn't a bit roll
• 1:07:02
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:07:03
  Glen: it was significant.
• 1:07:04
  Glen: And um, I think that whole experience would be really cool.
• 1:07:08
  Glen: And he got that gig off of this cover of a CCR song called Bad Moon Rising, which is so cool.
• 1:07:15
  Glen: And so kind of dark and haunting like you would expect him to produce that he had made 10 years ago.
• 1:07:21
  Glen: And I had first heard on The Walking Dead and we sort of briefly touched on it in the conversation, but.
• 1:07:27
  Glen: I, I sort of wanted to ask him his thoughts on the, like the re being the recipient of how music can actually have such a long lifespan that 10 years later it would pay dividends.
• 1:07:41
  Glen: It makes me think of the Kate Bush song and The Stranger Things, right?
• 1:07:45
  Glen: How
• 1:07:45
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:07:46
  alexi: Like resurface.
• 1:07:47
  Glen: Yeah.
• 1:07:47
  Glen: How, you know, in some instances, and maybe I wish it would happen more.
• 1:07:54
  Glen: The incredible lifespan that music can have to come back
• 1:07:57
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:07:57
  Glen: and benefit new audience as well as the person who made it or is making it.
• 1:08:02
  Glen: So I didn't get to talk to him about that.
• 1:08:05
  Glen: I would've liked to.
• 1:08:07
  Glen: Um, I think there was a part of me that, because his creativity is so into clearly for the amount of things he does over the years, sometimes I want to ask people what their kind of creative philosophy.
• 1:08:23
  Glen: Is because if you're doing different, like if you're acting and you're making music and then you find out he was actually pursuing a life in film and media, I.
• 1:08:37
  Glen: All of those creative outlets, a person probably has a singular philosophy that carries into all of them.
• 1:08:43
  Glen: And I was curious about
• 1:08:44
  alexi: sure.
• 1:08:45
  Glen: didn't get to it.
• 1:08:47
  Glen: Um, he plays in an all musician hockey league out in Toronto.
• 1:08:52
  alexi: Right?
• 1:08:53
  Glen: do you remember I went back that one year for
• 1:08:56
  alexi: The photo.
• 1:08:58
  Glen: No, I
• 1:08:58
  alexi: Photo, yeah.
• 1:08:59
  Glen: But anyhow, he plays in one of the teams out.
• 1:09:03
  Glen: There.
• 1:09:03
  Glen: And of course I'm always
• 1:09:04
  alexi: Out there.
• 1:09:05
  Glen: to somebody about'cause I do the same thing and I love it.
• 1:09:10
  Glen: um, like lot I could have talked to him about a lot of stuff, but Very
• 1:09:15
  alexi: I like that.
• 1:09:16
  Glen: Yeah, very cool.
• 1:09:18
  Glen: Um,
• 1:09:19
  alexi: cool.
• 1:09:20
  Glen: so, and he told me he'll circle back on it someday, so I'm gonna try to hold him to it like in a year or something if he has new stuff coming up.
• 1:09:29
  Glen: Uh, I will say.
• 1:09:32
  Glen: For people listening.
• 1:09:33
  Glen: Like he was there on, uh, his solo album, which he made and recorded with the guys in a band called Moon River, um, who are very, very good and were his backing band, but have their own music out, which is very, very good.
• 1:09:50
  Glen: I would love for people just to listen to and pay attention to.
• 1:09:54
  Glen: I think it a lot of credit for the impact they had in, in record.
• 1:09:59
  Glen: He got to make so.
• 1:10:01
  Glen: Yeah.
• 1:10:02
  alexi: Is that our music shut out for the day.
• 1:10:05
  Glen: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:10:08
  Glen: Yeah.
• 1:10:09
  Glen: Um, it's fall.
• 1:10:12
  Glen: Do you have any new discoveries?
• 1:10:13
  Glen: Do you have a new playlist that you've
• 1:10:15
  alexi: Oh,
• 1:10:16
  Glen: Is there anything
• 1:10:17
  alexi: a new playlist.
• 1:10:18
  alexi: Of course I have a new playlist back to school and it's fallen leaves are falling.
• 1:10:22
  alexi: Of course, I have a new playlist.
• 1:10:24
  alexi: Um, it's called.
• 1:10:25
  Glen: hold on.
• 1:10:27
  Glen: You're, you're 20 now.
• 1:10:30
  alexi: I'm 20 now.
• 1:10:31
  Glen: You are gonna
• 1:10:32
  alexi: I was 20.
• 1:10:33
  Glen: Well, I know, but um, I'm just saying in general,
• 1:10:37
  alexi: Oh, right.
• 1:10:38
  Glen: I don't know.
• 1:10:39
  Glen: Um.
• 1:10:40
  Glen: You're gonna have to start finding your false songs.
• 1:10:44
  Glen: Like, so for me, uh, every year I have to play and then share it to Instagram or something.
• 1:10:51
  Glen: A song by Buffalo Tom, which was a favorite band of mine from the late nineties called Summer, which is like Summer's gone, is essentially the chorus, like summer's gone.
• 1:10:59
  Glen: So I play it all the time in the fall
• 1:11:01
  alexi: I like that.
• 1:11:02
  Glen: and then.
• 1:11:04
  Glen: The leaves are already changing here in Edmonton and falling, which sucks,
• 1:11:08
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:11:08
  Glen: very early, which means I'm probably gonna start to play Yola Tango's, autumn sweater a little
• 1:11:15
  alexi: Oh, that one's so good.
• 1:11:16
  alexi: That's one of mine.
• 1:11:17
  Glen: Yeah.
• 1:11:17
  Glen: Okay.
• 1:11:18
  Glen: That's probably everybody's, it's so fantastic.
• 1:11:21
  alexi: It's so fantastic.
• 1:11:23
  Glen: yeah, so I'm just letting you know that that's
• 1:11:26
  alexi: Okay,
• 1:11:27
  Glen: important
• 1:11:27
  alexi: thank you.
• 1:11:28
  Glen: cred going forward.
• 1:11:29
  Glen: Okay.
• 1:11:30
  Glen: Sorry.
• 1:11:30
  Glen: You're the name of your playlist.
• 1:11:32
  alexi: Okay.
• 1:11:33
  alexi: It's very, um, suited for this fall because Edmonton weather, for whatever reason, decided to be super hot right at the start of fall.
• 1:11:43
  alexi: As we know, I've been wearing all my cute summer tanks.
• 1:11:46
  alexi: I haven't been able to wear all summer.
• 1:11:48
  alexi: Um, anyways.
• 1:11:50
  alexi: So it's called Hot and almost fall.
• 1:11:55
  alexi: Um, because it's hot out and because,
• 1:12:01
  Glen: the title, it's, but
• 1:12:02
  alexi: um, yes I do, because all my titles are very specific for reason, and I got made fun of at work once for this.
• 1:12:07
  alexi: Okay.
• 1:12:08
  alexi: Um, anyways, but
• 1:12:10
  Glen: meanings
• 1:12:11
  alexi: started, yes, actually there are, because my outfits are hottest in the fall.
• 1:12:16
  alexi: Yep.
• 1:12:16
  Glen: Wow.
• 1:12:17
  Glen: Okay.
• 1:12:17
  Glen: I get it.
• 1:12:19
  Glen: Okay.
• 1:12:19
  alexi: Anyways, um, yeah, it's just all my full music for this season.
• 1:12:26
  alexi: Um, a lot of Olivia Dean on there.
• 1:12:29
  alexi: Um,
• 1:12:30
  Glen: Very
• 1:12:30
  alexi: I hope you know who that is.
• 1:12:32
  Glen: do.
• 1:12:33
  alexi: Okay, good.
• 1:12:34
  alexi: And then, um, it actually started the first song I added that I was like, this is gonna start me off on the right note.
• 1:12:40
  Glen: gonna
• 1:12:41
  alexi: I don't know how to pronounce the name.
• 1:12:42
  alexi: Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce the name.
• 1:12:44
  alexi: It's either OTA or Otta.
• 1:12:45
  alexi: It's OTA.
• 1:12:47
  Glen: Yeah.
• 1:12:48
  alexi: Um, let's say ota.
• 1:12:50
  alexi: Um, but it's OTA Brown and the song Daydream by OTA Brown.
• 1:12:55
  alexi: And I'll add it right now as we speak to our playlist because it deserves a spot.
• 1:13:00
  alexi: Um, but I, yeah, I listened to it and like between like the cover art and the song, I was like, yep, this is the right start to my fall boy list.
• 1:13:11
  alexi: And then it grew.
• 1:13:12
  alexi: And I just think it's very like.
• 1:13:16
  alexi: Nice.
• 1:13:17
  alexi: I don't know, like there's a playlist that Spotify makes called Sexy Indie, and I always think the songs, yeah.
• 1:13:23
  alexi: But I always think for like a lot of people's, like Spotify mixes, it doesn't do the name justice.
• 1:13:31
  alexi: Like it's just indie music that sometimes it's just like a little bit like rhythmic more than not.
• 1:13:38
  alexi: And I'm like, it's not sexy.
• 1:13:39
  Glen: it's not really sexy.
• 1:13:40
  Glen: Okay.
• 1:13:41
  alexi: It's not really sexy.
• 1:13:42
  alexi: So this is like.
• 1:13:43
  Glen: okay.
• 1:13:44
  alexi: playlist though, like this is what I think is like sexy indie playlist.
• 1:13:47
  Glen: you have Ruby Waters on that playlist?
• 1:13:50
  alexi: Um, yeah,
• 1:13:51
  Glen: you
• 1:13:52
  alexi: I do.
• 1:13:52
  Glen: a song of Ruby Waters that isn't classified as sexy.
• 1:13:57
  alexi: That's real.
• 1:13:58
  Glen: but here's funny is that it's not sexy enough for you, but I kind of got in trouble for playing Sexy India at work.
• 1:14:08
  Glen: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:10
  Glen: There was a moment when somebody was like, what is this?
• 1:14:13
  Glen: Anyhow, um.
• 1:14:15
  alexi: Okay.
• 1:14:16
  alexi: Actually though, on that note, um, one of my managers at one of my managers at pip, whenever he comes in, he, because he works like a lot of nights, um, he'll come in and he'll say hi to people, hop on the iPad and just start playing sexy, indie.
• 1:14:31
  alexi: And I told him the other day that um, we were doing like impressions of him when he wasn't there once and all I did was just like pretend to walk in, wave at people, go on the iPad and hit play on sexy indie.
• 1:14:43
  alexi: And everyone was like, oh, that's so accurate.
• 1:14:47
  alexi: So it's a certified pip playlist as well.
• 1:14:49
  alexi: If anyone's listening, who goes there?
• 1:14:51
  alexi: 'cause
• 1:14:52
  Glen: Nice.
• 1:14:52
  alexi: where it's from.
• 1:14:54
  Glen: That's nice.
• 1:14:55
  Glen: I'm glad we just
• 1:14:56
  alexi: Yeah.
• 1:14:57
  Glen: landed on sharing our fall music since we feel like we're right thrust into the middle of it so quickly in September.
• 1:15:07
  Glen: yeah.
• 1:15:07
  Glen: But that's awesome.
• 1:15:08
  Glen: Um, really happy about the episode and, uh, the opportunity.
• 1:15:13
  Glen: So
• 1:15:14
  alexi: Yes.
• 1:15:15
  Glen: yeah, it was all good.
• 1:15:16
  Glen: It's been all good.
• 1:15:18
  alexi: Yay.
• 1:15:20
  Glen: Thank you so much.
• 1:15:23
  alexi: Of course.
• 1:15:24
  Glen: Okay, we'll talk again soon.
• 1:15:25
  Glen: Love you.
• 1:15:27
  alexi: Love you.
• 1:15:27
  alexi: Bye.