Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 353 - Paralyzed Shotgun Lawyer

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 353 - Paralyzed Shotgun Lawyer · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: H m hm. Been eating cheeseburgers. I see.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Everything is going to hal down here in Debby.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: He is the Tommies and Jobs Show Best and it's
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: from a Bee Maam and tum beans and Choby.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Rock Condancho for Maddy.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Timmans and Jobs Jobs and it's from Beam and Timber means.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: Then show me striped cotchecho for Fanny.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Charming.
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: No one is seeking.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: A back chance, Chad.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: To know nothing fine, time to.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Sell them Joe kill.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Week and here we go. That's right, Joe, what's up? Everybody? Welcome, Welcome,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Lone Gun Podcast. My name is Rob
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Clark and alongside me wearing his hoodie T shirt. No
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Brelli no, no, no hoodie. Okay. The little logo through me,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: it's all good. The baby logo through me, Yeah.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I like it. How are you, sir?
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I am doing fantastic. How are you?
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I am good? I am good.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Happy Friday, everybody. Yes, this is episode number three fifty
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: three Paralyzed Shotgun Lawyer. It's a hell of a hell
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: of a title for a hell of a show we
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: got for you. It's one of those that make you
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: you go h like it just keeps getting crazier and
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: crazier and crazier, crazier and crazier as video one. But
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: before we get there, Joe, welcome the good folks in.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: If you will please say sure, I would be happy
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: to We have our favorite rocket Queen Colleen here. How
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: are you, ma'am, mister mister Tray, how are you, sir?
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: True mister Scott Edwards? How are you? Tiny one is ready?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Oh what's up? Tiny?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Time stamp six fifty seven. So she was early, so
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I want the record to reflect that fairly early, yes,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: but you know earlier, yeah, yeah, probably about the same time.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Uh so, yeah, we want to give credit where credit
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: is due. And of course Sally just made it in
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: time evening.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Evening to you, just in time for some bangas and mash.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Definitely, mister p the Odyssey, how do how do howdy?
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Heading out for date night with the misses? But we'll
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: be listening. Oh shit, I'm sure sure she'll be thrilled
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: We know Paul's not getting in or maybe he will
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: be with us in his ear you never know.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I mean that would be pretty epic.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: He'd be's a little weird, but wouldn't be the first
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: time I'm sure, Joe, you think so somebody has gotten
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: some with a earbuds in with us in their ear see.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I think I'm not sure about that. I think more
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: likely like in Alexa in the background, like randomly went
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: to you know TLG show, That seems a whole lot
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: likely more likely.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean probably a female, because I don't
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: know if a male will be able to you know,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: stay stay up if you know what I'm saying with us.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: But now the ladies, on the other hand, they, you know,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: they might get a little turned on by our adulcet tunes.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Of d.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: H.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: James Smith. How are you, sar? Local man enters.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Chat James James and mister Paul.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Cummings, how are you start? Good evening? Pc Claude and
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: aunt Udine says, howdie boys and.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Girls rubber leg for me Claude, ship.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Garden and guns free. P Diddy. I'm not sure about
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: that one.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's keep him in jail.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Welcome garden and we have a peach assist here. How
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: are you? She's in an Irish pub in Nashua, New Hampshire.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I know exactly where that is. I've been there, just
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: had the best fish and chips haddock and sticky toffee pudding.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I probably it h very nice. I'm glad you're enjoying.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: It the first time, Joe.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I'm just used to butchering it, you know. Paul and
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Craig Shotgun Lawyer or ship House Lawyer. Well, I guess
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: we'll decide.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Was the take on the movie Shotgun Preacher? So yeah, okay,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: great movie.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: You haven't seen it?
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I have not, No, So that is it, sir? Excellent?
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Beach's Sun has the bangers and mash bestie's ever had
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: they serve baked beans over?
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Wow?
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, since we're on the straight up Irish shit there,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: since we.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Were on the topic before you start wrong, I'm just
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: gonna show what I ate for lunch today and I made.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: That's a little experiment. I've never done this before. Okay,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I want you to tell me yay or nay with
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: my ingredients here? Okay, I have an egg salad sandwich right,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: cut up tomatoes.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Hang on, hang on, before you go any further. Yeah,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: are you talking true egg salad or some concoction of eggs? Shit?
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: That you made egg salad that I bought in the supermarket.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, So legit egg salad. Yes, okay, yes, yes, it
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: looks it appears to have some cheese or something on it.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: So I toasted, I cut up a little tomato. I
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: did put a little bit of melted cheese on it,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: or cheese that melted, which was interesting. And then of
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: course King's Karma Silk City Hot Sauce here on the
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: right side, some salt and pepper and bro It was fire.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: So yay or nay? With my experiment here, let.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Me ask you one question. Is the bread toasted or
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: is it just bread?
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: It's toasted?
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to say that was probably fucking fire.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: It was had some kick to it, as kings Karma
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: does little tomato, and like the cheese was what I
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: was like, can you do cheese with eggs salad? But
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I just did a very little bit right, just not much,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and I have to say it was really good, really
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: good lunch.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: So I would add in some onion, but that's just
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: a personal preference, and maybe some bacon.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't have either available.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Without but yeah poor Man sandwich.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so head over to Silk City Hot Sauce and
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: use our code Gunman for twenty percent off.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Noise link is in the description as we pander and pawn,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: what's up, Brandon?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: What's up?
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Bubb slid in a little light but bad like you never.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Trey's mom is currently in Scotland, as is the Donald
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: down in some hagis.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Sally says, Scotland ain't too happy about the Donald.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Arriving there to it.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: But I saw there was a crowd. Joe, did you
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: eat him and stuff? That's exactly what I did.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: And licked his lips afterwards.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, no tomato for the double b I respect
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: that bacon. Yes, if I if I had bacon, I
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: would have one hundred percent on it. Any butter, Sally. No,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to be on a diet.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that's really diety watching his figure, Sally, Yeah.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: It wasn't necessary, you know. I just used Silk City
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: King's carmine and stuff.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Well that's that alone should be enough to like burn
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: at least three hundred calories with a sandwich the inside
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: health all right, All right, So our channel members who
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: were kind enough to join us on Wednesday night kind
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: of get the story a little bit about what we
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: were may be talking about here tonight. Now it seems
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: so long ago, Joe, that we did the whole Martin's thing, right,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: almost two years now, Jesus. And we reached out because
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: there was a Minneapolis bent to the John T. Martin story.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: So, there's been several prominent researchers who hail from Minnesota,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: and some notables you know, Gary Severson, Gary Schooner, and
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: you know a lot of people named Gary up there.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: John T. Martin is from Minnesota.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Rosburg visited there the whole spiel, right, And in the
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: course of talking, I believe it may have been to Seversen,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: he mentioned going down the uh, David Chroman rabbit hole,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: and I had no idea what he was talking about, right,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: m So, this folks is David Chroman, Okay, fairly middle aged, balding,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: nervous looking fellow if you ask me. Now, he's a lawyer.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: He doesn't look like a very trustworthy lawyer, though, Joe,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to me, it's a little shady for my liking.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: What does a trustworthy lawyer look like?
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Not that I can assure you, not that he looks
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: like like he's he's afraid of something, Joe, Like, like
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: he's got the ghost chasing him or something, you know
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: what I mean, like this guy don't look good.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: So see that, I was going through some Garrison files,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: as one does, and I came across a reference to Chroman,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: which ignited a spark in my brain that led me
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: back to Minnesota, which led me back to sever centers shown,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: which led me to look into the Chroman thing a
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: little further and see what I could find. Needless to say,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: I was not disappointed, Joe, because it is one hell
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: of a story.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear about it because I am
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: largely unfamiliar.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I assigned you the second half of the story,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: but we'll get there because and I don't know why.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I mean I know why, but I don't know why
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: these Minnesota researchers really took this thing seriously. I mean,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I get it because it has ties to Minnesota, right,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: which you'll see here in a second. So I guess
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: to run down the leads is one does. Back in
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the mid nineteen sixties when it comes to the Kennedy assassination,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: all these first gen researchers were, you know, salivating to
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: get a hold of any new information they can possibly
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: help out. Jim Garrison in his case, against Clay Shaw. YadA, YadA, YadA.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: So I came across some FBI documents, Joe, okay, and
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I believe we are in the neighborhood of March nineteen
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: sixty seven. Okay. And these are teletypes directly to the
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: director that would be Jay ed Gahova. So it's important
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: enough to let Hoover know directly from Minneapolis concerning Philip
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Kitzer David Richard Crowman at OL mail fraud conspiracy. At
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: four five a m. On this date, the Highway Patrol
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: in North Dakota received a report of an accident and
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: injury near Sterling, North Dakota. Investigation disclosed that one sole
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: loan occupant of the car was one David Richard Crohman,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: defendant in case is on trial currently. He had apparently
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: jammed his brakes on Highway ten while driving towards Bismarck,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: North Dakota. Chroman ditched his car, which I'm guessing means
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: actually went into a ditch, not he left it somewhere,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: which was a brand new nineteen sixty seven Dodge Monaco,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: which hopefully Joe can pull a picture of whilst I
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: talketh that'd be a nineteen sixty seven Dodge Monaco Joe. Yeah,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: that he had rented from Avis rent a car. So
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: this guy ends up in a ditch at four o'clock
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: in the morning in a brand new rent a car.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: A little of bump. Fuck. North Dakota ambulance drivers.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, that's a bad one.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. That's a horrible picture.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: No, when I clicked on it, it did you can
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: tell you.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: I'm bringing up the federal Okay, Ambulance drivers who first
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: responded to the car noted Chrowman had a shotgun in
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: the front seat of the car with him across his legs.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: He was shocked. Yeah, and here it is up here now, sir.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: It's a pretty sweet looking ride.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Pretty sweet. This is a restored version, very nice car.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: And this is a March of sixty seven, so it
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: would have just come out.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Brand new, brand new, probably looked just like that. That
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: right there is what we call it chick magnet.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: They just don't make them like they used to.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Man, I know, man, that's so classically styled. I love
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: it all right, all right, So picture four in the morning,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: middle of the night, Crowman, rand new Dodge, whatever the
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: hell that Monaco? Right, he's in a ditch. Ambulance drivers
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: roll up on him for the first responders. They get
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: to the scene, and this dude is sitting in the
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: car with a shotgun across his.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Lap, which means he either grabbed the shotgun after he
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: went into the ditch or it was on his lap
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: the whole time and he held it there as he
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: went into the ditch.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Right, one would assume, right.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Uh. He refused to unlock the doors for the arriving paramedics,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: but mades he made statements and asked the ambulance drivers,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: are you gonna kill me? State Highway Patrol Officer Officer
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: h Elter, who then appeared on the scene, opened the
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: car door forcefully and removed the shotgun, which had two
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: shells in the magazine. Croman refused to make any statements
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: regarding the accident to the officer. So they're asking him questions.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: The cops show up, they rip open the door, take
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: his gun, ask him questions that he don't say a
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: word the same word.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Dude is paranoid for whatever reason. If that's his first question,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: are the first responders here at kill me? Yeah, he's paranoid.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Croman was taken to Bismarck Hospital, where he refused to
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: coordinate with attending physicians, but kept stating that he had
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: no statements to make. I have no statements to make. No,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I will not sit down on this bed. I have
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: no statements to make. No, I will not lay down. No,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: you may not take my blood. I have no statements
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: to make. Crowman had a slight bump on his head
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: as a result of the accident, according to one of
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: the doctors attending him. Crowman appeared to perk up and
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: respond to questioning when Richard Olson, his former attorney, arrived
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: at the hospital, but kept saying that he had nothing
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: to say and wanted to be discharged immediately from the hospital.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Paul Presbury, Minneapolis Star and Tribune newspaper reporter, had accompany
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Richard Olsen to the hospital, made a statement at the
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: hospital that quote, Crowman was the guy who killed the
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: guy who killed Kennedy. End quote. So local TV stations
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: in Minneapolis, Minnesota carried a story that Crowman and Olson
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: are going to have a press conference later and make
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: a release about the Kennedy assassination. Finley Lewis, another news
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: reporter from the Minneapolis Star and Tribune, newspaper advised that
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Crowman had announced Friday, March twenty fourth, so three days
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: prior to this accident, that he was going to hold
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: a conference that that night on his Crohman's investigation of
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: the Kennedy assassination. Minneapolis has no verification of any connection
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: between Croman and the Kennedy assassination. USA. Patrick J. Foley, Minneapolis,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Minnesota is petitioning the US District Court in Bismarck, North
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Dakota this morning in an effort to revoke Crohman's bond
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: and have him confined during trial because of his numerous antics.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Minneapolis will follow the matter and report anything that develops, pending, pending, pending.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: So that was the first one of the day to
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Hoover right same day. This one's marked urgent to the
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: director from FBI Minneapolis. It is now two o'clock PM, Joe.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: This happened at four am the original accident, right, so
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: about ten hours after Yeah, So at two pm today
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: in the United States District Court before Judge Edward Devitt,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Crowman repeated information substantially covered in previous teletypes about his
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: trip from Minneapolis to Bismarck, North Dakota. When he ditched
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: the car twenty miles east of Bismarck. Chroman claims he
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: was followed by two cars and that at the point
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: of the accident a gun was pointed out the car
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: at him, and when he pulled up abruptly, he ditched
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: the car but was not seriously injured. Chroman admits he
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: was discharged from the hospital contrary to the doctor's recommendation.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Crouman stated he has been investigating the Kennedy assassination since
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: December of nineteen sixty three, and that his inquiry has
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: led him to Dallas, Miami, Key West, Las Vegas, New Orleans,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Kansas City. Kroman states the assassination is solved, but he
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: will not release any information concerning this solution at this time.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: He states he's been actively investigating the assassination after he
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: lost his job when the American Allied Insurance Company collapsed.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Crowman also admits that he was involved in a number
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: of other incidents. Here's where it gets crazy. He was
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: lost at sea on November sixteenth, nineteen sixty six, somewhere
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: near Miami when his boat ran out of gas and
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: he had a terrible time getting back to shore. Now
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: apparently he was on his way to interview Fidel Castro
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: in Cuba.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Chroman.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess he went solo out on a little
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: shitty boat and he ran out of gas somewhere in
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: between there Miami and Cuba and had a tough go
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: of things. He made it. Also, in nineteen sixty six,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Joe in a hotel in Tennessee, Hi Doug. He claims
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: he was assault and papers stolen from him. And this
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: assault took place the day after he had interviewed a Dallas,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Texas cab driver who had driven Oswald in his escape
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: from the school book depository. Now it doesn't take a
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: genius to figure out that the cab driver's talking about
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: would have been William Wally, Right right, Okay, Well it
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: gets weirder, Joe.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: This thing to do and all his does.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: The cab driver reportedly was killed in Dallas the next
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: day after Crowman's assault in Tennessee. So again, the assault
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: in Tennessee happened the day after he interviewed a Dallas,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Texas cab drive. So it happened the same day he
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: was assaulted in Tennessee. So William Wally, the cab driver
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: who allegedly drove Oswald from the Greyhound bus station to
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: the rooming House was killed the day after Crowman interviewed him.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Is that true?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know that's what he's saying.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Was William Welly killed? He was in sixty six?
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in a mysterious car accident.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Is there any record of anything other than Crowman of
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: that interview, like where it was? You have to think
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: it was in Texas, right in Dallas.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he said he was in Dallas, Okay, And uh yeah,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: So he's killed in Dallas and Crowman was attentively killed
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: in Tennessee the next day. Day as Wally was killed
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: in Dallas, Crowman was reportedly taking his statement that'd be
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Wally's to Washington personally, and the statement was apparently taken
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: by the unknown parties who assaulted him, Joe. So we're
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: never going to know what was actually in the interview,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: see now, because Wally's dead and Crowman got assaulted and
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: had it stolen from him, So whatever he told him,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: we're never going to know. For the info of the
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Bureau Minneapolis report dated March twenty one, nineteen sixty six,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: and Captain is captioned as above, reads the Minneapolis Morning
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Tribune of January fourteenth, nineteen sixty six, dated at Lebanon, Tennessee,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: stating that David Croman, a lawyer under federal indictment an
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: American Allied insurance case, alleged being attacked in his Lebanon,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Tennessee hotel room and robbed of important papers. This article
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: further discloses that the Tennessee State Bureau of Criminal Identification
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: was unable to substantiate Chroman's story, so it allegedly made
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: it to the Minneapolis Tribute Paper in nineteen sixty six,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: but after further checking by the FBI, they were not
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: able to substantiate Chroman's story through the Tennessee Bureau of
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Criminal Investor Identification or the TBCI, if you will. This
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: report also discloses on January seventeen, nineteen sixty six, Henry Robleski,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: captain of Detectee's detectives in Edina, Minnesota Police Department, advised
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: that Richard Olsen Okay, this is Croman's old lawyer, a
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: friend of his and an attorney for David Crumin, told
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: him Robleski of Croman's experience in Lebanon, Tennessee and in
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: incidents prior to and subsequent to the assault and robbery.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Olson advised Robleski that Croman left on his trip in
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: the middle of January nineteen sixty six in his personally
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: owned automobile, leaving Minneapolis, Minnesota, during the week of January tenth,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six. From Minneapolis, Croman went straight to Dallas.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: The trip supposedly took Croman sixteen hours, and only Olsen
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: and Missus Croman knew of his plans in advance. Suddy
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: was watching him. Joe we.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: At Dallas. Yes, I just want to say welcome Roger, sir.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: How are you a single car accident? He hit a
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: concrete medium. He's talking about Willy and Willie. Yeah, the
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: first Cabby to die on Judy since nineteen thirty nine.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true. I'm guessing if you're
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: quoting it it is. That's it.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Don't two question, Roger.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not I'm just saying I don't know, but that's crazy.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: So thank you, Thank you, sir, Roger. I had a
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: messaged with him earlier today, Actually did I He just
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: he just messaged me and was like, hey, man, just
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: want to say what up? And I was like thanks,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Like we had a good back and Forth.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: So, yes, he's the man. Okay, let's see where was
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: we here?
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I know?
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah. So at Dallas, Cruman was to confer with
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: a few people Joe, not just William Wally. He was
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: actually supposed to meet with millionaire Lamar Hunt as well.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: HM Robleski is not certain of the purpose of Chromeman's
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: contact with Hunt, but presumably it had to do with
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: the American Allied Insurance Company case that he was facing.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Croman was driving from Dallas to Washington at the time
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: of the alleged attack in Lebanon, Tennessee. Croman apparently stopped
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: overnight at Lebanon, a suburb of Memphis like Amoch, and
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: reported to the police that his hotel room had been
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: broken into and important papers taken. According to Rebleski, Olson
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: would not divulge the nature of the papers, but indicated
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: that they were not original papers and that there are
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: any number of copies of them available in the Allied
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: case to Olson and the defendants. So now it becomes
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: a case of insurance papers versus I thought it was
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Kennedy assassination papers.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Right. I don't think you're going to at Lamar Hunt
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: to meet with you if you want, If you're saying,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I want to see Lamar Hunt if you want to
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: talk about the Kennedy assassination, right, probably you're probably gonna
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: talk to him under like like you said some the
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Allied insurance things.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: I drove sixteen straight hours here just to see Lamar.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: How dare you make me wait any longer?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Well, we know that Ruby met with Lamar with with
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: that young lady that he was trying to get employed, right,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I think November twenty first, So not that Lamar was
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: not accessible.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a difference between h Hunt and Lamar Hunt.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Didn't he meet? Didn't Ruby meet with Lamar or hl?
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I have no idea.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I think I think it was Lamar. That's why I'm
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: saying that. I'm not sure. But either way, so he
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: is doing his own investigation. However, shoddy right allegedly allegedly.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Because mysteriously these Kennedy assassination papers and interviews have now
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: turned into insurance papers. Right, Olsen went to Lebanon, Tennessee
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: and brought Chroman back to Minneapolis and had him committed
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: to a hospital and placed under doctor's care. There was
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: no reference in this conversation to the assassination of the
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: late President Kennedy at the time. This came afterwards, Joe,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: we got added to the story. I see, so the
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: insurance papers turned into Kennedy assassination papers. Later, Croman refuses
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: to make names, to name names, or discuss his involvement
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: with the Kennedy investigation. However, he states that the Warrant
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Commission arrived at fact before they had examined the issue,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: and that when the truth comes out, it is going
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: to hurt some big name people in the United States.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: At four forty five this date, the United States District
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Court Judge Edward Devitt ordered Crohman's bond revoked and Crowman
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: was placed in the custody of the US Marshall Service
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: to be taken to the Federal Penitentiary slash Looney Ben
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: in Springfield, Missouri for a period of forty five to
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: sixty days for observation and psychiatric examination. Now where we
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: heard this before, Joe a lot of times. Now, interestingly enough,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: at the same time David Croman is sent to Springfield,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: there's another high profile guy that claims association to the
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Kennedy assassination as well in the Looney Ben at the
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: same time, and his name is Richard case Noguel. Wow.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: So let's just say he may have had a little
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: influence over our friend David Crohman. A mistrial was declared
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: as to Crowman in view of his press release today
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: on the Kennedy assassination. Judge stated he could rule on
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: whether the trial would continue as to the other for
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: defendants tomorrow, motions of defense attorneys from mistrial and view
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: of Cronin's severance. Croman severance will be held tomorrow. Okay.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: So that's a little FBI correspondence, right, and then we
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: have a press release from the Minneapolis Star the day
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: after we get these FBI reports, and this is out
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: of Bismarck, North Dakota. Federal Judge Edward Devitt today turned
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: down a request for a mistrial in the American Allied
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Insurance fraud case. Attorneys for excuse me, four of the
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: five defendants charged with mail fraud and conspiracy. Excuse me,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: I'd asked for a mistrial on the basis of statements
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: made to news media and an open court Monday by
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: one David Croman, who was the fifth defendant in the trial. Crowman,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: former president of the now defunct US Mutual Insurance Company,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: of Saint Paul, Minnesota told reporters yesterday that he had
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: been involved in a long investigation into the assassination of
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: President Kennedy in Dallas, Texas in nineteen sixty three and
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: was actively being hunted. After Crowman repeated these statements in
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: open court debit severed him from the trial and ordered
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: him sent to a federal hospital in Springfield, Missouri, for
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: a quote medical evaluation. So here's what he said. He
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: gave a little bit of a longer story to the judge, okay,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: about what happened and the incident that occurred at four
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning, the car crash. Yeah, okay, yeah.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Crumban told the court he thought that he had evaded
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: the cars who were chasing him after reaching the Minnesota
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: North Dakota border, but later he found one of them
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: was still following him. About thirty miles east of Bismarck,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: one automobile caught up with him, drove alongside his car,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: and that someone in the pursuing vehicle pointed a gun
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: out the window at him. He said he drove his
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: car then into a ditch to avoid being shot. He
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: also told the judge that he had a loaded shotgun
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: on his lap at the time because he was in
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: fear of his life. Chroman was found semi conscious in
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: the front seat of his car at about three point
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: thirty am yesterday by a motorist who then called the
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: North Dakota Highway Patrol. Because of Chroman's medical history, doctor
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: somebody treated the victim as an epileptic seizure patient. Fisher
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: later released Chroman when the latter refused to submit to
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: further medical test and demanded his release from the hospital.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Your honor, he said in open court, I have had
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: countless incidents that have never been reported. They were trying
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: to attack me and get material from me. This is
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: not in my imagination, Sir. I am playing a game
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't have got involved in, Chroman said, a game.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: I should have walked away from all of this in
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: December of nineteen sixty three, Sir, but I didn't, and
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I made a mistake, Your honor. Nineteen people have died
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: so far in the Kennedy investigation. Scores have been injured.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: It is miraculous that not one witness has ever been
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: uncovered to either these killings or these injuries.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Sir.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be the twentieth, but I will
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: not stop in my pursuit of justice. Yeah. So, he
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: said that he had become involved in the in the
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Kennedy case when he met a cuban in Miami, Florida Crumb,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: and also said the assassination was planned and executed by
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: right right wingers and that Lee Harvey Oswald had absolutely
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with the killing.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I wonder who this cuban for Miami was.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll get there, I promise. Now Here's where it
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: gets even more bizarre, Joe, as if it wasn't bizarre
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: enough already. Same day, another newspaper article out of Bismarck, Okay,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: an attorney on trial in a three million dollar insurance
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: fraud case told a judge he was forced off the
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: highway at gunpoint today as he drove here with documents
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: to prove President Kennedy was assassinated by killers other than
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald. The judge promptly declared a mistrial and
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: ordered a mental examination for the attorney. The bizarre story
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: was told by attorney David Crowman, aged forty three, who
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: was found partially conscious with a loaded shotgun across his knees.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: At four am in the morning in a rented car
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: in a ditch thirty miles east of Bismarck from fuck
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: North Dakota, which I'm sure is in the middle of nowhere, right,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: be my guest, especially in nineteen sixty six or sixty seven.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: So Judge Devitt revoked Croman's five thousand dollars reconnaissance bond
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: and ordered him committed for forty five to sixty days
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: to the Federal Penal Hospital at Springfield, Missouri, for a
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: mental evaluation. Croman wants an insurance commission. Attorney, an independent
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: candidate for Attorney General of Minnesota, was found in a
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: locked car. He was taken to Bismarck Hospital, where doctor ZERD. Fisher,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: a neurologist, made a preliminary examination and reported that he
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: was suffering from paralysis of the left arm and left leg. Now,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: the paralysis allegedly cleared within six hours of being at
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: the hospital, hence the name of the show Paralyzed Shotgun Lawyer.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: He was only partially paralyzed and it didn't last very long, allegedly.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: And then Crowman said, I'm leaving the hospital right without
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: the permission of the physician. So before he went into court.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Croman told Newsman in a hospital room that he had
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: been in touch with James Garrison, New Orleans district attorney,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: who says he has solved the Kennedy assassination. Groman's defense
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: attorney said Croman had excuse me suffered from an apparent
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: epileptic seizure allegedly, so you see where we're at here,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: So I have here Joe. A transcript of a telephone
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: conversation between Dolores Sulzberger, who was a friend in quotes
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: of David Crohman, okay, and our buddy Gary Schooner. And
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: the background of this is Delores. What a lovely name
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: for a little old lady. Has apparently been associated with
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: David Crowman since prior to the assassination and has played
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: a major role in his work. My own observations and
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: those of others suggests she's being used by him, and
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: that she is basically a very shy girl who wants
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: to be involved in spy type business. She claims now
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: to be blind, but there are reasons to doubt this.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. I mean, these people, man, they just don't
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: believe anybody. I'm paralyzed. No, you're not Okay, I'm not.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: You're blind. No, you're not. Okay, maybe I'm not.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Every excuse in the book.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: All gets better. The LRUs is a singer of Doozies,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: shall we say? The Lorus claimed to have been in
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Dallas from November of sixty five to March of sixty six,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: with Crowman having arrived in Dallas a week before she did.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: She worked as a departmental supervisor at the Southern Trust
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: and Mortgage Company. She used her uncle's name to get
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: the job. He has the same last name, Salsburger, kind
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: of like Salisbury steak, sALS Burger.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Kind of like nothing Burger.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this whole story is nothing Burger. That spoiler. He
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: was previously the president of the Sanger Harris Stores uh
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: and then chairman of the board. Dolores claims that she
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: and Dave were poisoned Joe the weekend before they were
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: due to interview Earlene Roberts, Oswald's landlady, right, who she
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: claims then died a day before they were to interview her.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see the trend here.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they were going to interview her, Joe, but
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: they were poisoned and couldn't do it, and then Earlene
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: ends up dying a day later, so they could never interview.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: These folks aren't having very good lucky interviewing people in Dallas.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: By the way, right if they actually did.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: She claims that Crowman, who was a notary of course
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: he was, took an Affi David which was stolen from
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Croman in Nashville from William Whaley, in which Whaley swore
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Scouts honor folks that Oswald had claimed that he would
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: get a medal from the government for the assassination. So
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: this is what they're claiming that Wally said that Oswald
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: told him in the cab, look I just killed the president.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: The Government's gonna give me a medal for it. Sure
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: they are, buddy, Yeah, that's Oswalt. I don't think even
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: he was that dumb.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: No.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Deloris claims to have heard this from another source. In
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: regard to the incident off of Miami, Delors claims that
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Crowman had a seizure and she killed the motor while
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: trying to start the boat. So now he's on a
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: boat with Dolores. He was not by himself. Apparently he
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: had a seizure on the boat and she killed the motor.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: She said that they were buying a fishing boat fleet
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: to rent out and would not give any details as
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: to what it was they were looking for. According to Dolores,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: while in Dallas, Cruman tried to get a job in
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: the medical records office at Parkland Hospital in order to
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: gain access to prominent folks medical records, but was not successful.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: I respect the effort, though, Hey if it.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: You't blame a man for trying. She mentioned also that
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Cruman was treated quite well while locked up in Springfield,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: and then he came back with a suntan exclamation mark.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: They gave him our time.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so m him and him and Miguel must have been,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: you know, walking around the yard, you know, rubbing oil
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: on each other's backs, talking nonsense and things that didn't happen.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Talking about the Kennedy assassination.
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: Sounds like a fun time, probably being like, I have
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: this author who's like really looking into me, Miguel says,
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: and he's an idiot, but he's eating up everything I say.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Sorry, Delores didn't claim to have that. Dave Croman saw
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Hunt H. L. Hunt Now not Lamar Okay on the
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: fourteenth or sixteenth floor of the First National bank building
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: quote where his office is. Chroman had quote called him
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: up on a Sunday afternoon and got right through to
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: him at home. Hunt allegedly saw him because he wanted
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: info on Hubert Humphrey, which Chroman claimed to have had.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: And I think Humphrey was a politician out of Minnesota
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: at the time, right, Yeah.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: I think he was a senator, and he was later
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: a vice presidential candidate. I don't know if he lost
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: to the whoever at Nixon beat. I think that's but
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: I know he's the Minnesota politician.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Quote. According to Hunt, he mentioned four people. Joe
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: j Edgahova, who he said was a sexual pervert. Okay,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: I believe that, Lyndon Johnson, who was a lousy president. Okay,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I believe that. Yeah, John Kennedy a son of a bit,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: you deserve to die.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with that. But H.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: Hunt thought Hubert Humphrey would make a wonderful president. It
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: leaves quote, it leaves the great big question mark there
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: about Hubert Humphrey's alliances with hl Hunt that such a
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: revolutionary would support him. She claimed that Croman was with
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Hunt for a long time, at least greater than three
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: hours and failed to show up for their coffee date
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: of Hunt. She said, quote, It's too bad. He's not
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: just an eccentric old man. He's much too dangerous. One
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: final note. Croman has mentioned Hunt as having been involved
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: many times, but I've not written memos on it since
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: by the time these conversations I had decided that Croman
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: was totally unreliable. It is noteworthy that Croman's plot theory
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: bears some resemblance to Bill Boxley's, and Crohman came along
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: before Boxley. I will try to get a copy of
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Croman's novel that he's written, apparently which laws claimed he
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: was going to be published by Dell Publishing, but which
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: will now not be published due to the bad press
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: he has received upon his incarceration and trial. It allegedly
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: deals with both the truth of the assassination and the
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: truth of dirty American politics.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, it's dirty.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Dirty bastards. Next up, we have another letter from Gary Schoener.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Can I stop you one second just to correct something
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: we were just talking about. Hubert Humphrey was lbj's VP,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: not the other way around. There you go, So I
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: just want to clarify that I know vice presidents something there.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: But yes, that is the Minnesota connection that that Crowman
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: as alluding to.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: And I found this letter in the Weisberg archives from
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Schooner to a California researcher named how Verb.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Now, as people know, Gary Schoener was associated with the
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: University of Minnesota Medical School in the Department of Psychiatry
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: and Neurology. So the fact that they kind of were
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: deeming Chroman right a little bit cuckoo, it kind of
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: intrigued Schooner to want to talk to him and get
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: to the bottom of things and evaluate him himself the
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: type of thing assume this letter, he says, dear mister Verdi,
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: in regard to David Croman, I have not yet been
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: able to contact him to arrange a meeting. His phone
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: is undoubtedly tapped for a number of reasons, and he
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: does not trust very many people, although I'm hoping that
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: he will trust me, since I'm fairly well known out here.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: I'm a fairly big swinging dick here at the University
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: of Minnesota. As I understand it, you know the story
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: up until the time when the judge sent him to
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: the federal hospital. I don't know whether the choice of
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: a federal hospital so far away was unusual or not.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: It wasn't. It was pretty much the only federal looney
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: been at the time. That's where they sent him all
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: and then one flew over the cuckoo's nest. The length
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: of time that he was kept there, however, is quite unusual,
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: So I think they might have kept this guy longer
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: than sixty days.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Joe Crumbling, Yeah, Yeah, probably deserved it.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, Since Shunner says a week at most would
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: have been necessary for most people to give him an
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: extensive examination and then evaluate him. I'm quite sure of this,
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: since psychological evaluation is precisely what I'm studying out here. Furthermore,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: they should have done it as fast as possible, since
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: it is holding up his trial. Well. At any rate,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: he came back with a clean bill of health. He's
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: out on bond on the condition that he does not
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: talk about either the assassination or the American Allied case
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: with anyone, especially the press. Thus, even what the public
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: knows about the entire incident is enough to make one suspicious.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Crowman has spent a great deal of time in the
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: past several years traveling back and forth between Minneapolis, Minneapolis, Miami, Dallas,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: and New Orleans. They first had to check him over
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: after he was picked up in a small boat headed
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: for Cuba. He claimed that he was trying to check
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: out a lead about the assassination and planned to head
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: to Cuba to interview Fidel Castro as one. Does you
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: know they just hop in a boat and head for Cuba. Yeah,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: in hopes that they can be garnered an interview with
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Fidel Castro.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure Castro's is waiting in the hotel for them.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: He would have grabbed him up, through him in freaking
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: trascone or prison and let him right. They expected to
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: beginning some sort of nut to evaluate, and we're quite
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: surprised they found him to be quite sane and stable,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: although somewhat paranoid. It's beginning to look to me as
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: though it paranoia is well founded. Dun't, dun't, dun I'm
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: afraid I don't know how long it will be before
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: I can contact Chroman, or if I'll ever succeed in
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: getting any info from him. Best of luck in your
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: work out there. I understand you people keep quite active. Sincerely, Yours,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Gary Shona PS Joe the phone is apt, but that
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: may be remedied soon, since we're going to surprise the
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: phone company with the threat of a court suit before
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: the week is out.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Seriously, what's that? I wasn't sure if you were joking? Wow?
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Joking?
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Is he playing to his paranoia? There?
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Who in the hell knows? I don't know.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: That's weird.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: Uh Okay, here's where we get into the nitty gritty
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: before I hand it over to young Joseph here.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you for calling me young, sir.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Well, you are younger than I, sir, so you are
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: forever young Joseph.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: I'll ticket me.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Uh. Now, there's a report of an interview the Garrison
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: investigators did with David Crowman, a guy who was with
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: Gel in Leavenworth Penitentiary in nineteen sixty seven. Now he
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: was also in Springfield Looney Tuned Land with Neguel. So
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: they apparently weren't Levenworth together too after they got out
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: of the Springfield Cuckoo Hospital.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so very likely that they had some type of relationship.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, and we will see here very shortly what kind
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: of relationship they did have together.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Joe oh Man, I'm sorry I asked.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: And I don't know how much of this is true.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: One can never tell you have a secondary source. But
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: some of what Croman reported to the Garrison investigators about
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: Neguil has held up things that Neguel has told me
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: and others. And what was interesting, particularly in this file
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: was that when talking about the initial plan to assassinate
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: President Kennedy in Miami in December of sixty two, he
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: said it was a right wing extremist group including the
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Cuban Batista movement, financed by hl Hunt and other individuals.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: The operation was to be performed by this Cuban group
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: finance financed by backers of the Freedom for Cuba party.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: The intent was, as Miguel told me, to launch a
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: full scale war and the blame would be placed upon
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: them or the Cubans, or full scale war with Russia
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: and the blame would be placed upon them or on
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: the Cubans. Talked about Oswald being brought into the plan
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: much sooner. And you know the interesting part about Oswald,
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: which again now Miguel has never said this to me,
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: and it's hard to know how much of this is
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: true or not, but Croman says there were seven men
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: involved Joe in the initial plot, and that Oswald was
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: initially told to bring a Mauser to the building the
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: day before the assassination, to the Texas school Book Depository
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: and plant it there, hide it there whatever, and then
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: on the day of the assassination. This was Oswald not
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: knowing that he was to be betrayed, was to be
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: found in an impossible position during the assassination. The plan
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: was given to him as follows. Subsequent to the assassination,
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: he was to leave the building but hand the dismantled
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: Manly kirk Krkano rifle to a contact on the third floor. Okay. Now,
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: one does not quickly break down a Manly kirk Karkanu rifle.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: I believe it's not meant to be a breakdown rifle.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: You need a screwdriver, and there's a lot of screws,
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: so that's gonna take time. That I would be assassin
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: who lets he just shot the president, probably wouldn't have
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: time to mess with but okay. Oswald was then instructed
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: to leave a Mauser rifle, which was planned the day before,
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: at the site of the alleged shooting, and make his
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: way without haste to a preconceived place in Mexico City.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Once in Mexico City, he was to immediately go to
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: the Cuban embassy where he had been before and give
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: a code name. Uh hm. There was no code name
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: given to the Cuban embassy in Mexico City, nor was
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: there ever intended to be one. Oswald would have then
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: been forced to leave the embassy and was to be
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: shot one block in any direction from the embassy by
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: a CIA asset. It was believed the Mexico City police
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: would then think it was just another killing of a gringo,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: but something would askew Joe and their plans. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: of course that didn't happen. So I found that very interesting.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: And again I don't know exactly how Miguel would have
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: known about this, since he was in jail at the time,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: or whether Croman was just making all this shit up,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: but I found it certainly of interest and noteworthy. It's
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: something to follow up. All I can say is that
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: in closing is that I would hope someday Richard Miguel,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: now sixty five years old, before and I finally know everything,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: we will finally be getting close to solving what happened
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: on November twenty six, nineteen sixty three. No, you're not
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: now one thing that I neglected to mention in all
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: of this, Joe, is that he actually named the shooter
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: of President Kennedy and it wasn't Lee Harvey Oswald. The
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: man he gave. The name that he gave was a
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Cuban exile by the name of Miguel Torres. Yes, Chroman
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: named this guy as the shooter of President Kennedy. Okay,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: So with that being said, I'm going to hand it
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: over to Joe for the rest of the story. Yes,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: I am going to it's better, folks.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: I'm going to delve into Miguel Torres, a name that
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: I wasn't familiar with before this either.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: But in comments you want to address before you get in.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually have too. Good Thank you for that.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: H Jeffrey Gutterman don't know the name. Welcome Sir. Do
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: you agree that, based on evidence or lack thereof, we
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: cannot know with certainty if Oswald acted alone or there
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: was a conspiracy, So just based on the wording of
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: your question, with certainty, no, I don't think based on
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: the evidence or lack there we can know with certainty, right,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: And that's part of the thing. A lot of the
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: evidence was destroyed, hidden, blah blah blah. Although I certainly
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: believe Oswalt was not involved in the assassination of Kennedy.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: But well, then that pretty much says that you think
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: there was a conspiracy there and the nuts. So with certainty,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: with certainty, mister Jeffrey Guterman, I can say that I believe,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: based on evidence that there was a conspiracy. Yeah. I
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: got three hundred and fifty three episodes of this podcast.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: It takes you through it all. Joy the back catalog,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: my friend. Yeah.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: And I didn't mean to say that, like I guess,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: I just was like, uh, analyzing the word with certainty
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: if the certainty means one hundred percent. But I agree
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: with you, sir.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Well, we don't speak for the entire community. We only
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: speak for ourselves. I can say with certainty that I
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: think there was a conspiracy. Joe's more of a fence wrider.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: No, No, I think for certain Lee Harveyals almost.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: Framed professional fence writer.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: No, I I'm not sure. I think Lee Harvey All
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: was framed. Uh. And we have opt of economists here
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: for another here I love this for another of Minnesota connection.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Jim Fetzer is the professor Emeritus of the Philosophy of
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Science at the University of Minnesota at the Lute is he.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, I thought he was in Wisconsin, University of Wisconsin
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: at Madison. I I could be wrong.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure he will uh opt Tobal.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Comedy Jim Fetzer expert. But the details have fell out
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: of this brain some fifteen years ago at this point.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is all a blur.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: Right. He started off good and then really really ran
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: off the edge of the earth with his crazy conspiracy bullshit. Right, yeah,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: as sometimes happens with folks.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, that is true.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: We'll start out there, some people would get there eventually.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, we see it happen today. I'm not going to
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: name any names, all right, So let's get to the
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: person Chroman named. Who is Miguel Torres. So I'm going
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: to go in chronological.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Order here, and we go in chrominological order.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Chrominological order. Yes, and so I guess the news of
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: the Garrison investigation rob was first reported in the newspaper
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: on February seventeenth, nineteen sixty seven.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: So that was a month before Chroman's found in his
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: car with a shotgun partially paralyzed.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay, correct, and.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: This article is from February nineteenth, okay, and it's New
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: Orleans prover Warren report inaccurate. District Attorney Jim Garrison said
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: yesterday an investigation by his office shows the Warren Commission
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: report is inaccurate and saving le r by Oswald actor
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: alone in the assassination of JFK. Garrison refused to elaborate.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: He said at a news conference that his investigation was
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: begun to determine the possibility of an assassination of conspiracy
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: in New Orleans. He said his investigators having covered facts
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: which are interesting. Previously, Garrison had refused to comment on
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: a copyrighted story about his investigation, which appeared in Friday's
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: New Orleans State's item concern about prisoner and this is
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: where tours comes in. He said that a prisoner in
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: the New Orleans Paris jail now possibly as his life
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: in jeopardy as a result of the publicity given to
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: the probe. He did not name the prisoner. The State's
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: item said Miguel Torres, a twenty six year old Cuban
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: who formerly lived only a block from Oswalt's last known
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: New Orleans address, was brought from the Louisiana State Prison
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: at Angola to the Orleans Parish Jail on January thirtieth. Torres,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: the account said, is serving three concurrent nine year terms
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: for burglaries, and he is known to be the quote.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: He is known to be connected with the DA's investigation.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: A question on Manchester's book. At the news conference, Garrison
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: was questioned about William Manchester's book, The Death of the President,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: in which Oswalt, in which the author says Oswalt acted alone.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: Manchester wasn't there at the assassination, Garrison said, neither was
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: I but my office has spent considerable more time investigating
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: the assassination then will Manchester did, and it's my belief
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: that man was wrong, Garrison said. Asked if you felt
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: a new federal probe should be locked into the Kennedy assassination, replied,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: there should be several concurrent investigations, and the important thing
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: is that the evidence should be evaluated. The State's item said,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Garrison's office is seeking a physically powerful and dangerous Cuban
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: man who is believed to be one of the one
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: of a group of Cubans who were reportedly hid behind
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: a billboard on the parade route in Dallas on November
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: twenty second. In another development, David William Ferry, part time
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: private investigator and operator of the local flying service, told
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: the State's Item the District Attorney's office informed him it
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: has positively uncovered a plot in New Orleans to assassinate Kennedy.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Ferry was interrogated intensely by the District Attorney's office nineteen
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: sixty three and also talk with the FBI and the
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Secret Service. State's Items said, Garrison and his assistants were
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: in Miamily in January hunting for the Cuban de So
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: this is I want to keep in mind the time
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: frame here. So first news broke of Garrison's investigation on
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: February seventeenth. You have these two articles on nineteenth and
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: both of them name Torres, right, Miguel Torres.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Gonzalez, Joe hold On. Joe has come through with a
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: twenty dollars super chat and gifted five memberships benefiting from this.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: Owen Smith, Frosty Stay, Frosty, my Friends, the Audio Haus,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Wise Guy wild Ride. So your spook level that gets
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: you a second show next week, because there are five
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Wednesdays in the month of July So everybody just got
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: a Spooks membership, you get an extra free show next
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: week on Wednesday night at seven pm live right here
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: Eastern Standard Time. So thanks Brandon for that. You are
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: the man, sir.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's why he is getting his own custom merch show.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: Appreciated it, Yes, because he is the man, And thank
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: you so much, Berndy. Really appreciate it and looking forward
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: to seeing some of those gifted Spook memberships the next
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: week on Wednesday.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question, Joe, because I'm a
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: little confused about what you just said. So Miguel Torres
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: allegedly already in jail in New Orleans or Angola or
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: wherever they'll having three consecutive nine.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Year sentences concurrent.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to get But the Garrison people are looking in
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: Miami for.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: Who a Cuban. I don't think that's the Cuban they
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: are looking for.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Is that's what even you were looking for?
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: He was in prison during the time that Garrison talked
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: to him here in nineteen sixty seven.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're looking for Manuel Garcia Gonzalez thanks to Dean
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: Andrews pulling a name out of thin air.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean this because listen you got February seventeenth.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: The Garrison thing is kind of first reported in you
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: have two days later you have these two newspaper articles
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: that come out, which is on the nineteenth, this is
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: the second one.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: This is my question would be, how the hell did
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Croman know about Miguel Torrez if he's already in jail
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: in Angola, Louisiana. Excuse me, how would Crowman have heard
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: of this guy? You see what I'm saying.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know unless he have like a paper
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: or something. The thing is that so to this is
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: a theory I have as I've gone through this. Miguel Torres, right,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: he's named in some of the earliest this is the
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: second newspaper article as a New Orleans you know, Cuban
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: exile that lived close to Oswald, right right, And we're
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: going to go through his background, but he really has
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: no connection to the case. He's a heroin addict. Okay,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: he is a burglar. I'm gonna go through his his
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: his munks, his rap sheet. Here. I think Garrison put
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: this guy out as like as a false flag type
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: of thing, as a as a distraction, because here you
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: have these articles on the nineteenth Fairry. David Fairy is
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: found dead three days later February twenty second, sixty three.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: So a lot of things are happening in this one
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: week period from when the newspapers get this story to
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: when these two in the seventeenth the first one these
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: two articles come out in the nineteenth Ferries found dead
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: three days later. And Torres, who is a Cube in
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: exile but has like no connections doing anything regarding like
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Cuban exile activities, is just a drug addict, like a Skufuza.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: I think it might have been a distraction by Garrison
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: to throw this name out there. And you can let
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: me know what you think as I go through this
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: or after. But it just doesn't make sense, you know.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: Sooner Scooter says this is his favorite podcast, keep it up.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Oh thank you, sir, I appreciate it.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: And Trey comes in with the not just anyone can
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: pull off a bi weekly podcast and be good at it.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: I think you mean twice weekly live podcast.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, bi weekly is every other week.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, we will, we will take that. Yeah.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's it's not easy coming up with topics, as
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: you and I well know.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: But we try so we get it down. We do.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: So you have these two articles. This was the second one,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: similar to the first. District Attorney Jim Garrison said today
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: a plan was developed, accummolated in the assassination of jfk.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Arrest will be made. There are people besides Lee Harpy
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: Oswald involved, the prosecutor said in an interview. New Orleans
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: was a factor in the planning. Beyond a shadow of
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: a doubt, Garrison says an investigation in Garrison's office shows
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: that the Warrant Commission report is inaccurate. We already have
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: the names of all the people in the initial planning.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: Garrison said. He wishes we are not wasting our time
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: and we will prove it. The rest will be made,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: charges will be filed, and convictions will be obtained. Garrison
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: said the Warrant Commission blah blah was not right. The
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: New Orleans States Items said yesterday that Miguel Torres Again,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: a twenty six year old Cuban who formerly lives only
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: a block away from Oswald's last known New Orleans address,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: was taken from the Louisiana State Prison at Angola to
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: the Orleans Parish jail on January thirtieth. He is known
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: to be connected blah blah bah. The state's items in
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: Garrison's office is seeking a physically powerful and dangerous Cuban
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: man who is believed to be of a group of
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Cubans who reportedly hid behind the billboard. Again, the same
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: thing as the aura. But I don't think Torres is
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: that guy.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: So I would like to know where the tip came
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: from for this Miguel Tour guy to get on Garrison's radar.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: He couldn't have been the only Cuban in New Orleans jail,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, there had to be
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: quite a few. I would imagine, Yeah, and this guy.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: Really had nothing and I'm going to get to their
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: a little spoiler. It really had nothing to do with anything.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: So that's what makes me think, like maybe Garrison though
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: what there.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Had to be some kind of a tip. Garrison just
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: wouldn't pull this guy out of jail for no reason
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: and blame the Kenny assassination on him, right, I wouldn't think,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, well, let's go through the rest of the
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: documents here.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: He still has David Ferry at this point, yet for.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: Three more days he hasn't. Yeah, and David Ferry is
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: mentioned in one of the art in the articles.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: But somebody must have given Garrison his name. He did
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: not need this guy or play games with this guy, right,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: Fairy is still alive at this point.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's true. I don't know, and I think
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: whoever did give them him that name was intentionally getting
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: him off the track, because we'll get there. So of course, Zach,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: since as we've talked about Rob, when things like this
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: happened in the newspaper, guess what happens. There was a
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: start of a document process where the FBI will then
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: address this and you know, someone will the boss will
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: last special agent charge, they'll come back with a report,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So this is the same day, February
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven from W. C. Sullivan to a Brannigan,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: I think New Orleans based. During the course of the
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: investigation of the assassination, we received a number of allegations
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: indicating Oswalt was in contact with Cuban or pro Castro
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: Cubans in New Orleans. Each allegation was very carefully and
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: thoroughly run out, and we found no evidence of any
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: contact between Oswalt and pro Cuban sources in New Orleans
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: re Miguel Torres. During the course of our investigation of
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: the assassination, we developed no information indicating acquaintanceship, or contact
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: between Oswalt and Miguel Torres mentioned above. On October twenty five,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: sixty two, we received information from a US Customs investigations
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: investigator in New Orleans that Miguel Torres, his father, mother,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: and two brothers others were all in their beliefs and
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: reportedly had a short wave radio in their home for
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: the purpose of receiving Cuban broadcasts. We initiated investigation of
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: Miguel Torres and other members of his family on the
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: basis of such allegations, but found no information to corroborate
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: such allegations. Investigation did disclose that Miguel Torres was an
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: unsavory character who had a criminal record. He was arrested
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: on February first, fifty nine on an armed robbery charge
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: and was sentenced ten two fifty nine for a period
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: of ten years. On two two sixty one, he was
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: discharged from the Luisiana State Penitentiary. He was arrested again
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: on September fifth, nineteen sixty four. That's my mom's birthday.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: By the New Orleans Police Department on burglary charges and
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: was sentenced to nine years in the state penitentiary at Angle, Louisiana.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: In September sixty four, he was also ar wrestled for
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: violation of the federal narcotics law and was sentenced on
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: January sixth, sixty five to three years, sentenced to begin
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: after completion of the nine years imposed. So dude had
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of issues, right, And it makes me wonder
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: how Garrison could have even thought this guy, even if
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: he did have information, would have lasted on the witness stand.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: You know. This is later in the document observations. As
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: early as December sixty sixth, New Orleans advised Garrison was
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: conducting some type of investigation regarding the assassination. Upon instructions,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: New Orleans has been following this through reliable and confidential sources.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: One source with whom we were in contact with, advised
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: Garrison did not want this information furnished to the FBI. Well,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: that wasn't successful. Because this is an FBI document, we
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: do not know what evidence Garrison possesses, if any, corroborating
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: his claim that other individuals besides Oswald were involved in
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: the assassination. We recognize Garrison as politically ambitious, and this
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: may be an attempt by him to keep his name
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: before the public. It is not known what part Miguel
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: Torres plays in Garrison's investigation. However, he may be furnishing
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: information of some type to Garrison in exchange for reduction
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: of his prison sentence. He is in jail Torres at
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: the time that Garrison transfers him. Then a day later,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: on the twentieth, you have more documents flowing in regards
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: to Garrison's investigation and Miguel Torres, who was of course
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: quoted in both the newspaper articles. This is kind of
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: just more than the same. The newspaper articles indicated that
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: Miguel Torres, a twenty six year old Cuban who formerly
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: only lived a block from Oswald's Lesson address, is known
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: to be connected with the investigation conducted by the District
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: Attorney's office. The Washington Evening Star article also reported that
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: David William Ferry, a part time private investigator and operator
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: of a New Orleans flying service, informed the press that
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: the District Attorney's office informed him it had positively uncovered
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: a plot in New Orleans to assassinate Kennedy, and so
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: this document rob is two days before Very is found dead.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: They go into background on James Garrison because this is
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: kind of new at the time. In the Washington Post
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: article which I also showed mentioned above, it's reported that
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: Miguel Torres is known to be connected with the investigation
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: being conducted. Blah blah blah. And they say he's a
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: communist and had a short wave radio to listen to.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: Castro did disclose that Miguel Torres had a criminal record,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: he was arrested, blah blah blah. We don't even through this.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: So let me go before I go to this, let
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: me go to his criminal record sheet. This sheet, he's
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: arrested January fifty nine, armed robbery. I think vague might
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: be a term for vagrancy a.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: Badge.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, October fifty nine, attempted armed robbery. Attempted armed robbery
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: to charges And now we're affording to sixty four. I
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: guess he did his little time invest vague vat badge
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: March and Joe.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: Let me just say this attempted armed robbery.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that means that.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: This individual has a weapon, likely a gun or a knife,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: and attempts to rob somebody, but it's not successful. Yeah,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: that is a very bad criminal opinion. Not only that
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: part of it is you're not successful in an armed
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: robbery attempt, but you're also caught in the early sixties
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: were said robbery gone bad. That is a bad criminal.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: You're right, he's really bad.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: So you only do are you not successful in an
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: armed robbery attempt, which you should be if you are
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: the one it's armed. You got caught attempting an armed
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: robbery not once, not twice, but three times.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then sixty four you have vagrancy.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: Means you're hanging around, so you're an idiot.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is why rob To go back to my
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: theory of why this guy was even named I it
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: could have just been a fake out to me suspended
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: burglary or I m V SIMP burg burglary, simple burkelary
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: March sixty four, s usp berg suspicious suspended burglary in
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: March or in April in August, simple burkerlery two counts.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: And that means Joe, you left your car keys on
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: the table and I took him. I didn't actually aren't
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: try to attempt an arm robbery of you. I just
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: I just took your wallet off the bar while you
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: weren't looking, and I got caught.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, violation of federal narcotics law. In September of that year,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: simple burkerolary as well in September you'd.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: Like to puff the married Juanna apparently.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: Sale of heroin and another simple burglary, both in November
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: and December sixty four. So why Garrison thought this skufuza
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: could be of any use to him? I don't know.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: You're right, it's probably a tip. But whoever gave it
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: to him, I think was really trying to throw him
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: off the trail here, I think so. So, of course,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: we have these newspaper articles coming out February nineteenth. Three
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: days later in February twenty second, we have David Ferry
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: found dead, and then in or August twenty third, end
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: of August nineteen sixty seven, we finally have Garrison and
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: al Cock and his investigators talking with mister Miguel Torres right.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: And Brand Jury investigation.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, and Rob, and I mean you told me to
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: clip this. This is hilarious.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, here's where it gets even funnier, folks.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and keep in mind he is in jail at
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: this time. Miguel Torres the first question after they read
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: him his rights and do the introduction and whatever, do
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: you know? Emelio Santana answer Torres, I would like permission
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: to consult my lawyer. Do you feel the question by itself,
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: with any background to the question, would in any way
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: incriminate you whether or not you know, Amelio Santana, Torres,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: I would like to have permission to consult my attorney.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Did your attorney ask you to consult with him on
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: each question? Would like to have permission to consult my attorney.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: Is there any question that you will answer without going
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: out and consulting your attorney? Rough guess what he asked?
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: Answered, I see it.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: I would like to have permission to consult my attorney.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: So this dude who's in jail is not is not
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: really cooperating with with Garrison and his investigators. And this
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: goes on for a while here, and they let him
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: go out and consult his attorney.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the beginning, I'm like, all right, we will.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: This is another thing. Didn't a juror of the grand
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: jury chimes in, didn't you consult your attorney before he
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: came in? Here? Yes, what would you like to talk
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: about with him? Now? For I would like to consult
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: my attorney. What about I would like permission to consult
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: my attorney. The juror says, I say no, don't let
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: him go outside. They're getting right, like, who the fuck
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: is this guy? So they let him go, and then
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: you see at the top here re enter mister Torres.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: He talks to his attorney. Mister Torres, you're stole nder oath. Yes, sir,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: do you know Emilio Santana? Yes? So all right, we
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: got a yes, you know whether or not Emilio Santana
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: was in Dallas, Texas and the falls fifty three? I
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: would like to consult my attorney. Foreman chimes in, you
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: can't if you if you answer will incriminate you. I
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: will tell you. But as long as an answer will
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: not incriminate you, I will allow you to go out
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: and ask your attorney. This is not how this procedure
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: is run. You are not allowed to do that. Answer.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: I would like to consult with my attorney. The answer
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: is no, you cannot. So they go on a little more.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: Is this your handwriting? Did you write that? Can you type?
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: Did you type that? I would like to consult my attorney.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: Would you say answering that question would incriminate you? Is
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: that it? I would like to consult my attorney. The
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: only time you could refuse to answer a question is
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: when it would incriminate you. So they're like re explaining this,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: He goes, I would like permission to see my attorney.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: I would like for me to see my attorney.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: How old are you, Miguel?
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: I would like to consult with my attorney.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: Where do you presently live? Actually, allay, how long have
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: you been there?
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: Three years?
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: What are you there for? Where did you live prior
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: to going to the penitentiary.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: I would like to consult my attorney on that one.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: And have you a garrison? Have you ever been at
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: the Beckley Club on Jefferson Street in Dallas, Texas?
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: I would like to consult my attorney.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: Do you know whether or not Emelio Santana knew Jack
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: Ruby in Dallas, Texas?
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: How would I like to consult my attorney?
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: Let's see. We have a statement we obtained from Emilio Santana.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: Do you know him?
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: In his statement, he described a meeting with you in
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: New Orleans in the summer of nineteen sixty three, and
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: he described Sergio or Kotia Smith as being present. You
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: want to tell us about that meeting?
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: I would I like to consult with my attorney.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: And this is improv guys, we didn't have this planned.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: Do you attend the meeting with Sergio Katcha Smith and
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: Emelia Tansana in the thirteen hundred block of Dauphine Street
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: in the summer of nineteen sixty three?
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: I did visit a house in a thirteen hundred black
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: of Dlphine. It was on the left hand side going uptown,
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: and Emilia Santenna was there. Answergi Orcasha was not there.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: Do you recall telling Lynn luisl when you were first
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: brought down here from Angola, that Sergio Akasho Smith was
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: person at the meeting? No, you don't recall that.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: I want to consult my attorney.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: You just consulted your attorney, didn't you. Miguel, did you
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: testify that you attended a meeting in nineteen sixty three
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: with Emilio on Delphine?
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: Is that right? I do not know whether it was
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: nineteen cty three or nineteen cty four.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: How did you get there?
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: We drove who drove in my car.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: What kind of car did you have?
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: Built? Fifty one built?
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: What color?
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to consult my attorney.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: Did Emelio ever tell you he was working for the CIA?
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: He did meet there?
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: Well, what did you say?
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: Hey? You know, like conversation like he used to make
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: trips to Miami Athel Cuba. He said he was a
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: frog man. He carried money sometimes.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: Did you believe him?
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: No, sir?
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: Did he ever try to interest you in working for
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: the CIA? Sometimes he say, oh, oh sorry?
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: Sometimes he say you have to join. I say what,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: I have pretty bad habit. I am sick most of
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: the time I cannot.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: And he is referring to as heroin addiction. Have you
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: ever known a man and they go down the list here?
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: Have you ever known a man by the name of
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: Warren Reynolds? No? How about Jack Ruby?
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: No, but I saw him on TV?
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: Jack Lawrence? No, Sir Kenneth Lucky, No, Sir Hank Kill again?
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: Oh No?
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: How about D. A. G. O.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: Garner? Yes, I know him? Yees.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: For the record is answer was no, Guy Johnson. No
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: interesting names there they're mentioning here, Lauren Hall. No, a
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: big man with a beard, No, I want you to
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: look at these pictures and tell us if you recognize
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: any of them.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: This is the man you show me previously. This is
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: not the man.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: Sergio referred to you.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: No, lots of difference.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: You're a positive of that, very positive. You have never
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: saw Jack Roby in your life.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: No, not until what happened. I recognized this man for
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: the first time.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: Did you ever know Bobar before all this? No, you
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: never saw him as far as you can remember.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: No, sir.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: Did you ever see Leo Oswalt when he was here
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: in the city.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: No, sir.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: You know we used to live in the forty nine
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: hundred block of Magazine.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: Well, you see, my mother lived in the fifteen hundred
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: block of Magazine in nineteen sixty four, a year later
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: after all this happened. You have never seen mister Shaw,
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: not until loved this happened.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: He wasn't at a meeting on Delphine Street.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: No, sir, I would remember that.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: So you can't remember when you first met Emilio Santana.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: Late sixty three or sixty four, some somewhere around there.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: The charges you were presently doing time on were burglary
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: and in which he was with you. Right, when was that.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty four? I remember it.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: Emilio did not speak English at all at that time,
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: very little. So it goes on and on, and that
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: was pretty good. That was.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: Very little bit.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: That was ad libbed. Uh.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: I think we got our answer where Miguel tour Is
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: got on Garrison's radar right there.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: From Emilio Santana.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: The question is how didn Emelia Santana get on Garrison's radar?
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: Right? And and that's a great I don't know. But
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: for the people that don't know, let's go into who
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: Emelio Santana was. Okay, so this is mister Emilio Santana.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: See, he's my friend. He had very big, bushy hair
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: like you see, very very bushy eyebrows, very straight for him,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: very mean looking, very mean looking.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He was a Cuban exile and anti Castro activist
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: who was investigated in connection to the assassination of John F.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: Kennedy to his associations with Figure is linked to the
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: plot and his activities and anti Castro circles. He fled
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: to the United States following the nineteen fifty nine Cuban
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: Revolution that brought Fidel Castro to power. Like many exiles,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: he was involved in anti Casher activities seeking to overthrow
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: the Castro ragime. Santana was a member of the anti
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: Castro group Alpha sixty six and was reportedly recruited by
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: the CIA's Miami JM wavestation in October nineteen sixty two
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: as an a M leptin operative for participating in a
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: single infiltration exfiltration operation to Cuba in May of nineteen
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: sixty three.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, Sally just drops pounds on us. Whoa British pounds GBP.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Sally, Wow, thank you so much.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: Sal. I appreciate it much love. Whenever I hear that noise,
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: I just stop reading and stop sharing.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: That is the super chat alarm.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: I love it, Thank you so Muchnday.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: Nights, it's the Joe's hockey highlights when he scores a goal.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, which I did have a goal highlight on this
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: past Wednesday show. But Sally is on kitten Watch. Did
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: you know that her cat is pregnant and about to
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: give birth to kittens? Anything?
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: I thought you were talking about some other times.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: Get your mind out of the gutter.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: Most of the time. Sorry, but I too, Sally, I'm
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: on kitten watch.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: Really, Yes, your cat is pregnant.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: No, I'm just waiting for it to die.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: That's dark brow.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: That's funny. It is funny.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: So back to Skufuza Emilio Santana. He was a CIA
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: contact or agent from December nineteen sixty to October nineteen
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: sixty three, so keep in mind his end date here
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: October nineteen sixty three. Yeah, he was recruited in October
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: sixty two. That doesn't line up. Or he was a
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: contact in sixty recruited in sixty two when, after training,
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: participated in the May nineteen sixty three in a single
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: infiltration actual tration operation and was terminated October sixty three. Right,
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: and from twelfth to seventeenth February nineteen sixty seven. Again, Rob,
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: this right here is I think just made what your
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: thoughts were of where it came from. You said a
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: meal in Santana. Yeah, twelve to seventeenth, nineteen sixty seven.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: The two articles I posted or I showed were on
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: February nineteenth, and I guess the first one talking about
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: his investigation was seventeenth. So yeah, he sold out his boy,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: much like Jack Martin did to David Ferry, not that
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: they were boys.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: But but something had to happen with Emiliad for him
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: to get on Garrison's radar. You know what I'm saying,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: Like he just didn't pull this guy Santana out of
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: tan air right.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: Well, there there is an FBI document talking about someone
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: who said he was in Dallas and that he owned
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: a manly for carcano. Now I couldn't I couldn't find
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: it in my last second searching here. But let's go
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: to July ninth, sixty seventh subject. This is a CIA
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: document Garrison investigation subject Emilio Santana Galindo. In response to
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: your request, subject file was reviewed and Station JM Wave
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: was asked to supplement the information to headquarters files. Blah
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: blah blah. Or review shows that subject was recruited by
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: the agency in October nineteen sixty two, not nineteen sixty
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: as was reported in an earlier memorandum. He was given
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: limited training for use as an area guide on an
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: infiltration operation in which he participated during the latter part
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: of May nineteen sixty three. Subject exfiltrated with his family
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: about one week after being infiltrated and was subsequently terminated,
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: So he brought his family back.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: Now they trained him and he went in there and
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: brought his family back instead of doing what he was
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: put Yeah, that means you're fired, asshole.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: That's kind of what I get from it. Right list
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: of blow or the staff blah blah blah, and the
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: last part of this, there's a lot of things that
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: are kind of redacted. Neither jam station, wave nor headquarters
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: have any record of subjects, whereabouts and activities between October
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: and December sixty three. So this is where it gets interesting.
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: We have this skafooza. Of course, he is alleged to
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: be in dey Plaza like every other person and their
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: extended extended relatives. Right, plaid coat man in Cook walking
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: south along east side of TSBD, large ears, nose and
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: mouth shaped squirre chin, low eyebrows, wavy, thick black hair
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: and hairline.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: And I can see it vaguely, but I don't know.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: It's a tough sell.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: It's a stretch. Yeah, So he gets let me see,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: he gets, uh.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 6: Uh hold on, let me see, let me just figure
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 6: out where I am. Oh a bunch of tabs open.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: So the Jim Garrison investigation in nineteen sixty seven and
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: covered information suggesting that Santana was in Dallas on the
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: day of the assassination. Uh An FBI report noted that
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: Santana was alleged to have been in Daley Plaza at
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: the time the assassination, supposedly on orders of conspirators including
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: Clay shaw Lee, Harvey, Oswald, Ferry, and servior or Conscious Smith,
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: which of course a stretch. Santana was reportedly involved in
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: meetings in Mexico City in September sixty three where plans
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: to assassinate JFK were discussed. The House Select Committee on
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: Assassinations noted that anti Castro Cuban exiles, including individuals like Santana,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: had the motive, means an opportunity to be involved. Santana
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: was a CIA contact from December sixtieth and contract agent
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: from March of sixty three, and listed a nineteen sixty
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: four loan application listed CIA as as employer.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: And who'd be dumb enough to put the CIA as
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: their employer.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: A back then, I mean it would probably get you
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: the loan if you could confirm it.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: Well, back then they actually called you references. They don't
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: not like now, right, So we're just calling to confirm
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: this guy's clandestinely working for the CIA. Yeah, trying. He's
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: trying to get a loan here for thirty dollars.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: Well, they allegedly stop working him with him in October
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: sixty three, so if he was unemployed at the time,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: he might hope that maybe they wouldn't call, right, if
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: he was trying to get a loan of.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: Some being move, dude, you don't put your employer.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: Bro He got arrested for burglary with Torres. Wasn't the
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: smartest guy in the tool in the shed, right.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: And if he's associated with our conscious smith, whether that
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: opens up the whole New Orleans cannon worms there because
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: of where you know their office was located, CRC or
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: the Cuban Revolutionary Front or whatever they were called, right
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: Camp Street.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah so yeah, yeah. So going back to Miguel Torres,
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: there is no detailed account in the provided sources of
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: the specific interactions with Garrison and his role in the investigation.
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: They talked about Box sixteen. With Garrison, he was a
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: person of interest and connected to the broader network of
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: individuals that Garrison investigated, but there is no direct evidence
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: to say he was even part of the plot or
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: involved seriously in anti national activities, So I don't know.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: Man Santana is a much more interesting person to me
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: than than Torres. Torres seems to me like heroin Autic
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: Burglar Scafusa, right, and why he was mentioned? And yeah,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: Chroman did go to the medical.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: It was in Angola prison. So how the hell would
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: he even know about Miguel Toys, That's my question. I
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: don't know that name is the is the shooter of Kennedy.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and one last thing, Rob I found this really funny,
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: And this is from Garrison's Playboy interview.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: And Croman claimed to kill the guy who killed the president, right,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: didn't he?
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but Miguil Torres is quite alive apparently. Yeah.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: So Garrison says, Messrs Cancelor and Torres were both convinced
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: by my office as we're almost half of the men
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: in the state penitentiary, and I'm sure the great majority
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: of them have little love for the man who sent
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: them up. So Garrison actually prosecuted Torres, which is interesting.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: And Torres had an interview with Vernon Bundy okay of NBC.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: Of course, these two convicts, Garrison says, have been used
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: against my office in a variety of respects. Miguel Torres
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: also claims I offered him a full pardon, a vacation
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: in Florida, and an ounce of heroin if he would
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: testify that clay Shaw had made homosexual overtures to him
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: on the street. What on earth that would have established
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: relevant to this case? I still don't know, Garrison says,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: but that's his story. I think it was actually rather
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: cheap of me to offer Torres only an ounce of
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: heroin that wouldn't have lasted out his vacation. Akila would
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: be more like it. So Garrison is taking shots here
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: at Torres right, after all, I'm not stingy. Torres's friend,
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: John Chancellor, a burglar, has also charged that one of
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: my investigators tried to induce him to burglarize clay Shaw's
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: house and plant false evidence there, but he refused because
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: he would not have such a heinous sin on the conscience.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: I suppose that's why Cancellor's prison nickname is John the Baptist.
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: I could to show you if we ever want to
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: burglarize Shaw's home, which we never did, John the Baptist
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: be the last man or we picked for the job.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: So I don't know what happened from the beginning of
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: those two articles that talked about Torres, because I mean
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: the first articles relating to the Garrison investigation talked about
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: Torres and he really had nothing to do with anything.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: It was very confusing to me. Man.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see that he got pulled in somehow,
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: probably from Santana, right, and you know, from Santana to Akasha,
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: and he's just guilty by association, I guess. I guess. So,
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: I mean some random paralyzed, shotgun toting lawyers saying this
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: is the guy who shot him, Like, Okay, I guess
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: Garrison felt that he had to investigate, all right.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think from from stage one he was just
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: being pointed in a million different directions by a bunch
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: of different people.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: And wildness.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's no evidence of Torres being involved
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: in any anti castro operations whatsoever. And in fact, he
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: said to Santana allegedly when he said you should join
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: the CIA, he goes, I can't. I'm sick half the time. Akay.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: He's like withdrawing from Heroin.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: By the way, I cannot swim. Yeah, I think I'd
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: be a frog man like you.
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, But I mean Emilio Santana definitely was and
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: I was admitted so.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: Joe. Yeah, Torres was a roadie for Santana. Uh, that
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: made me a little thank you, James.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: I could see Santana kind of talking to Garrison and
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: telling him about Skuffooza Tourres and just completely getting him
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: off the trail type of thing.
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: So sorry guys for that giant nothing burger of a story,
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: but it was wildly entertaining and interesting in an aspect
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: of the case that I'm not previously looking too. So
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: you just never know what you're gonna find it to you, Yeah,
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: crack it open, look and see if there's anything there.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 2: But I don't think there's anything there. And I don't
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: know what these guys shown Her and Suverson were looking
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: at back in the day, Uh, you know, looking to
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: this case for any kind of relevancy or truth or
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, this guy sounds like a nut job Chrowman
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: from the get go, thinking people were after him running
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: him off the road. Maybe it's true. Who knows. There
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: was a lot of paranoia about people being associated with
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: the Kennedy assassination being taken out and I'm sure it
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: didn't help that, you know, poor Dave Ferry died, you.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: Know, right in the middle of this, right in the
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: middle of all this, and god, it's crazy, man, crazy.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: And I don't know what Carrison was thinking if he
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: thought he had any value in a witness with this
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: guy towards based on his rap sheet.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think he used him in the
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: in the trial because I don't think he got much
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: good information out of him from the grant at the
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: grand jury.
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: No, right, he didn't. But like, what was the initial
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: thought there with all that? That's what's interesting.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: Oh well, they were questioning about Amelia Santana because for
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: some reason, Amelia Satana came on their radar right as
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: being a shooter in Dallas. And it escapes me. Who
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: dropped that dime in Garrison's ear?
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was. It was the first question
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: they asked. Garrison asked, Torres, do you know Emilia Santana?
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: And of course we know what he said.
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: I would like to console with my lawyer. Ah so.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: Craziness man. But uh, I'm glad we did that skit
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: that was not planned.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm glad. I'm going to console with my lawyer
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: first before we do another skin like that Joe, mhm,
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: just to make sure it is okay. So that is
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: all I have, sir, awesome sauce. Well, folks does this
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: for us this night? Uh, Happy Friday everybody, and have
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: a wonderful, joyous weekend. Joe, grab the damn dog and
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: I be Dean Andrews and we will scurry m Ruby
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: furry behind out of here. Thank you to everybody who
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: showed up and hung out with us. Thank you for
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: the super chat. I love you.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: Brandon can be membership Sally again. If you're a.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 4: You're then next Wednesday, the next show, next week the
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 4: members only show, and you see what it's all about,
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 4: and see how we do. We hang a bang already
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 4: got to move and planned out for the next wendoure
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 4: you join us then and be looking out for our
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 4: executive Droptully.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: Sometime this weekend as Joe can make the time. Uh
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: it happen. We're handsome job Orelli and even more handsome Ruby.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: We are up out of this kid three.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: And poodle late.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you, yeat