Latest / Let's Kick It Off! / Ep 55: Michael Carrick Appointed as Manchester United Head Coach, FA Cup Defeat & INEOS Troubles

Transcript

Ep 55: Michael Carrick Appointed as Manchester United Head Coach, FA Cup Defeat & INEOS Troubles · Let's Kick It Off!

0:41
Let's kick it off. I'm your host Steve and I'm
0:45
joined by Ash and us and we have a lot to talk about this week.
0:50
So a week ago Reuben Ameren was sacked and since then we've had
0:54
two games, a draw against Burnley and a defeat against
0:58
Brighton in the FA Cup. And then following that FA Cup
1:02
defeat, the new started to emerge that Michael Carrick is
1:06
the number one contender for the not the interim, interim role
1:09
which Fletcher's had, but the interim role until the end of
1:12
the season. It looks like Carrick is set to
1:14
secure that officially within the next 2448 hours.
1:18
So I think that's pretty much done.
1:20
So I think we'll start there and then we'll come to the football
1:23
unfortunately. So us my mate Michael Carrick.
1:28
They're happy about that. In terms of name actually, is it
1:30
interim, interim or is the technical term caretaker?
1:34
Don't know, I think everyone's confused.
1:35
About, I think I'm going with, I think caretaker feels like.
1:40
Used to be caretaker back in the day.
1:42
Don't. I, you know, like is in the, as
1:44
in, you know, the first guy that kept comes in Fletcher.
1:47
Yeah, the internal guy. He's like your caretaker.
1:50
That's what I was thinking. Carrick's now the interim fair
1:53
and then we'll go with the permanent.
1:55
Yeah, I, I, I would have probably, you know, my, myself,
2:00
my own views would have gone with an Ollie and Carrick.
2:03
That would have been my preference.
2:04
I think they worked well together in the last spell.
2:06
Think the United job as well. It's so big that I hope he's not
2:11
burdened by, I mean, Amerem seemed to be having an interview
2:15
with Sky every other week. Or it's just continuous right,
2:18
that you have so much work to do outside of the actual coaching
2:23
but as one interview. As.
2:25
No, but he seemed to be constantly be having answering
2:29
questions right to various parts of the press, and you just think
2:32
that that part of the job's overwhelming and I hope that
2:36
he's got a good team behind him. I don't know.
2:37
Is there any news in terms of who's backing him?
2:41
Right, because you need the team.
2:43
Yeah, I mean early indications are Fletcher will hang around
2:47
the first team in some capacity, possibly as a coach.
2:51
I've also seen reports of Jonathan Woodgate, who worked
2:54
with Carrick at Middlesbrough coming in and also Jonathan
2:57
Woodgate worked with Wilcox, played with Wilcox at Leeds, so
3:01
there's a connection there, which I'm sure.
3:03
What makes Tim Sherwood's going to come?
3:05
I know. Exactly.
3:06
Did he play with Wilcox and Black?
3:08
Oh, Rio, Rio, Rio played with Wilcox as well, so he should get
3:11
a job, right? Oh dear.
3:12
Yeah. But you know, I heard good
3:14
things generally about Carrick at Middlesbrough.
3:17
Then he obviously gets fired. One thing I'm always worried
3:20
about and why I was saying an Ollie or, you know, been reading
3:23
your Christmas present that you got me.
3:26
Yeah, Gareth. Sorry, sorry.
3:27
Just just on that. Do you remember the note of
3:30
Secret Santa left you both? Oh dude, no, I.
3:34
Remember a bit around I don't know, along the lines of.
3:40
Can't remember off the top of my head but as soon as you say it
3:42
like. It was your job is to prepare
3:44
for the future. Yeah, I didn't think it would be
3:47
that soon, that quick. There you go.
3:48
But what's interesting in the Southgate book is he, I'm only
3:52
at the beginning. I haven't had time to obviously
3:54
read the whole thing. So he's talking about his
3:56
Middlesbrough stint and basically how unprepared he was.
3:59
He came straight as a player didn't understand, you know what
4:03
the, the, the management role entailed, how you know how
4:06
different the role is, how big the role is.
4:09
What year would that have been? Is that like early 2000s?
4:11
Is it 2008 seven? 6 maybe like 20 years ago, like
4:15
it was a long time ago and he admits he wasn't prepared.
4:19
He wasn't ready for it, he little tidbit.
4:21
Apparently Fergie sort of wanted to hit them, to veto hit, you
4:26
know, him being allowed to do it because he didn't have the
4:27
relevant qualifications. And he, and at the time he said,
4:31
I felt like what's going on? This is, this is pro licence.
4:35
Yeah. He didn't have the relevant.
4:37
Yeah. And he said looking back, Fergie
4:39
was right. So it just shows you like
4:42
experience counts. I'm glad Carrick has done a
4:45
stint at Middlesbrough at least before.
4:48
Like, if it had been Darren Fletcher coming in, I would have
4:51
been very worried, right? So at least Carrick's done a
4:54
stint as manager, has got some experience, but I still think
5:00
it's a it's a big job ahead. Yeah.
5:03
In terms of that media requirement, Ash, I mean you're
5:05
saying it's one interview, but just generally the media
5:08
requirement, not just any Premier League manager, but
5:11
probably more so on Manchester United because we have more TV
5:13
games, etcetera, is a massive responsibility, right?
5:16
That has to be factored as part of the role as a whole.
5:20
And obviously this is going to be new to Carrick in terms of
5:23
the scrutiny. So any concerns on how Carrick
5:26
can handle that? Not really actually, because as
5:30
a player he handled it brilliantly.
5:32
Not just that, Manchester United, Tottenham, West Ham, He
5:36
was always under the radar, composed, composed.
5:40
You know, like when the West Ham Academy was full of Rio, Joe
5:45
Cole, all of these superstars. Michael Carrick was the one that
5:49
everyone always forgot to mention, even though he was a
5:52
brilliant footballer. Ron will attest to this.
5:54
At uni. I wanted character join United
5:57
when he was at Spurs. So yeah, in terms of his
6:00
composure and like, is he up to it from that perspective, from a
6:04
media point of view, I think he's up to it.
6:07
Does he want to interview every week?
6:09
No, because he's a calm and like, you know, quiet guy,
6:14
unassuming, but you know, he's got a great football brain.
6:18
Everyone talks about Paul Skulls talks about like, I think he
6:22
used the term Rolls Royce as a footballer, right?
6:24
So in terms of the composure side and being up to that, I've
6:28
got no problems. I remember actually seeing him
6:30
on Match of the Day a couple of months ago after, after the
6:35
Brighton game, actually the Premier League one.
6:37
And yeah, I think we just come off A42 win.
6:40
We had our friend Kim McGuire on the pod and he was actually
6:44
confident about what he was seeing.
6:47
So it's good to see that actually now he can implement
6:50
some of his ideas. And we're getting like Imbumer
6:53
and Ahmad back as well. So like, good time to take on
6:56
Pep. Yeah, it's an interesting few
6:59
games, obviously Manchester Derby and then Arsenal away.
7:03
So just going back to the Ollie point in terms of why Carrick
7:06
might have got the nod over Ollie.
7:08
So us, me and Ash did a instant reaction video earlier and we
7:13
discussed the fact that Carrick possibly works better for any us
7:19
optically because obviously we've we've gone through the
7:22
Ollie route before. This is slightly new, so would
7:26
you agree with that that this kind?
7:27
Of goes well any us look like geniuses.
7:30
Yeah. And possibly Carrick would be a
7:32
viable option for the perm if it went really well, whereas Ollie,
7:35
obviously we've been down that route.
7:36
So would you agree, agree with kind of that point of it, it's a
7:40
better option for any us? Yes, I don't know about the perm
7:44
thing. Again, I do think we should be
7:47
going a bit bigger, but you never know.
7:49
Maybe the guy is an absolute. If we finish top three for
7:53
example, you know like overachieve.
7:55
What's the real phrase? Get whatever you want on that
7:58
contract. Put it in front of him.
8:01
Where's the paper? Yeah, Yeah, I agree.
8:04
I perceive, you know how I've always been saying to you, oh,
8:09
yeah, I'd love a Southgate Ollie.
8:10
It'll never happen. Because I perceive Jim Ratcliffe
8:13
as a guy who would never make that decision because it feels
8:17
like the Ollie era was somehow people didn't appreciate him at
8:22
the time. He's not a sexy name for a lot
8:25
of people. And it just seems like a
8:28
sensible decision, right? And I just think, yeah, it's not
8:33
an exciting one for for Jim, it feels like a bit, you know,
8:37
going backwards almost to someone who was perceived to
8:40
have failed, which I, you know, I don't agree with.
8:43
But that is the perception around social because he never
8:46
wanted to know. Right.
8:47
He's had two meetings with the board, Ollie about the role.
8:51
So like as soon as it happened, it was obviously on.
8:56
Well, I say any us, but yeah, Jim's radar, the fact that at
9:00
least they should speak to Ollie, which in itself is like
9:03
kind of pragmatic to what as is saying because like he's
9:07
criticised, you know, the previous regime for what they
9:10
did, like the interim or the interim and you know, were they
9:13
hiring the best in class and the right people?
9:16
So he's obviously having a part and shot at even Ollie, right?
9:20
Yeah. I mean, I was listening back to
9:23
the pod that we did last week for obviously quality control
9:26
purposes, and it's actually funny.
9:28
Sensory control. Yeah, well, we were saying that
9:31
we don't think Ineos would go down the, you know, Ollie slash
9:34
Carrick route. So you know, the fact that they
9:37
they did pretty much the next day, you know, those were the
9:39
routes they were looking at. Something that's been talked
9:42
about a lot over the last week and I want to get your guys
9:45
thoughts on it. I'll start by asking a question
9:47
as what is the Manchester United DNA?
9:51
Yeah. So I love that question because
9:52
it gets comes up a lot and I think it's really misunderstood.
9:56
I also think it means different things to different people,
9:59
which I think is interesting because I was thinking for you.
10:03
We've had lots of discussions, you and me, and I'm like, oh,
10:06
for Steve, actually, the Manchester United DNA is more
10:11
like what I perceived the Chelsea DNA to be, which is to
10:14
win football matches, right? And that was not what I grew up
10:18
with because we weren't the winning juggernaut in my youth.
10:21
I've got the 91 retro top, which I also had as a kid for me.
10:29
And then there's the other thing of people look at, for example,
10:34
Barcelona and their DNA is very much around Kroy and it's quite
10:37
tactical DNA. IAX as well is that?
10:40
Coming from Iax, from Michaels and Kroy, who brings the total
10:44
football philosophy to Barcelona.
10:46
And so they see themselves as this kind of what we call
10:49
positional play style of football, where you play the
10:53
ball on the deck and you let the ball do the talking right.
10:58
And you see that in in Guardiola's in when got when
11:01
Guardio first joined City. Now his play now is being
11:04
adapted to the Premiership. It's all at the Premiership.
11:08
Loving me for that and and and Jim Carlin Premier.
11:11
Yeah. But when I when I think about
11:13
DNA, it's not, it's not about winning and it's not about that.
11:15
It's about, and I know I think specifically tactical, which is
11:20
why I was like, I don't care about 3 at the back or whatever.
11:22
For me, it's about attacking football, aggressive front foot
11:25
football. I want to see dribblers.
11:27
I always tell you about dribblers.
11:29
I always think of Man United as Ryan Giggs and Lee Sharp, George
11:32
Best, George Best taking the ball.
11:34
That's why I was like, oh, when we signed Kunya and in boom, I
11:37
kept their Man United plays to me.
11:39
You know, when I see Ahmad going at going at the the the
11:42
fullback, that's what's what I look look for right?
11:45
Jason Wilcox and his heyday. Jason, if you're listening, you
11:48
know, get that ball, take a fullback on whipping a nice
11:53
cross. So and then the other thing I
11:56
perceive with United is focus on youth and the Academy.
12:00
So when I think about when I saw Shay Lacy Cat cat come on, that
12:04
means something to me as a United fan, which is why other
12:07
signings that that we've made when I will go.
12:09
But what about this random guy who, you know, like Aiden Heaven
12:13
or a Cheetah Obia? Like seeing us bring in unknown
12:17
talents and then trying to develop them.
12:19
They're the two things I think that are essential.
12:22
I would agree with that. I mean, you, you say that I put
12:24
winning high up there. I would probably put it third on
12:27
that list. I would I agree with you.
12:28
I'd say #1 is attacking exciting football, getting the crowd
12:32
excited. Number two, yeah, Academy, which
12:34
is why I've been so big on Kobe, Manny this season.
12:37
And it's killed me that he's not played his second start only
12:41
this season was against Brighton.
12:42
But I would put winning #3 because we have one in our
12:46
history, across our history. So for me, I'd say those are the
12:49
three values. The other maybe DNAI don't know
12:51
if it's DNA, but in our in our history and culture is making
12:55
big signings. That's what I think about big
12:57
like a Brian Robson, like having the big name, big stuff because
13:02
Man United it always in its history had financial firepower
13:05
all the way through because of Old Trafford right in a big fan
13:09
base. So they're the three things I
13:11
look why why I love the club is attacking football, young
13:16
players and then mixed with big players.
13:19
Yeah, like that class of 92 where they talk about class of
13:22
92. But then you had your, you know,
13:23
my hero Canton are in there or a keen, you know, Steve Bruce,
13:28
like big names alongside the youth.
13:31
And there is nothing specific tactical that I'm looking for,
13:35
but I want us to be on the front foot.
13:36
And This is why I think in the talk of managers, we take every
13:40
podcast. I'm like, it's not Marco Silva.
13:44
Marco Silva is not a Man United manager.
13:46
He's defensive, he's conservative.
13:48
And I hope that when we look for the future that we go, OK, who
13:52
are the managers that are proactive?
13:54
Even for example, you know why I was a bit wary of Thomas Frank?
13:58
I said, oh, but the Brentford way, is this why I'm a bit aware
14:01
of Oliver Glasner? Because, you know, a palace and
14:03
at Frankfurt it was more reactive.
14:06
So I'm, that's why I'm thinking, OK, who is the pro?
14:08
And, and apparently Carrick was more proactive right at
14:11
Middlesbrough. So I'm happy with that.
14:13
So can I, I want to pick up on a point you mentioned there about
14:15
signing big players because Ash, I was listening to the latest
14:19
talk of the Devils earlier and our friend Carl Anker was
14:22
talking about, they were talking about the DNA, hence why I
14:24
wanted to talk about it with you guys.
14:26
But Carl Anker brought up a book and it was, can't remember the
14:30
book exactly, but it was the Barcelona and Ajax history and
14:33
the traditions of their positional play.
14:35
And it's very detailed in terms. Simon Cooper.
14:37
That's the one. Yes, that's the one.
14:40
I think he did this exact thing. He's.
14:41
Holding up my monitor at the moment.
14:43
So my, if my monitor falls, yeah, it's, it's in, it's, it's
14:47
in between Sir Alec Ferguson's autobiography and his leading
14:50
book as well. What's the book called?
14:53
It's called inside this inside story of the world's greatest
14:56
football club. It's a very good book.
14:59
OK, so it's on the reading list then?
15:01
That's the one. There you go.
15:03
OK, nice, Simon, right. Yeah.
15:05
So that's yeah, that's the book. He talks about South and he and
15:08
he talks about the fact that Barcelona and Iax, they have
15:11
DNA, but it's very, you know, tactical, it's very detailed.
15:15
And then Carl basically said, Manchester United, if you're
15:18
going to talk DNA, if anything, you'd compare us more to Real
15:21
Madrid. So Ash, would you agree with
15:23
that in terms of our DNA? Not quite, but I know where he's
15:26
going with it because it's not as linked to Barcelona and as
15:31
iax. I'd say the big difference with
15:33
Real Madrid is they sign historically the best players in
15:39
the world, like globally, whereas I think United
15:42
traditionally have signed the best British players.
15:44
So like as talks about Brian Robson, we signed Roy Keane in
15:48
the early 90s for a British transfer record, Rio Ferdinand,
15:53
Wayne Rooney, That's what we've done with the global superstars.
15:57
Not be honest. Like unless, as you can correct
16:00
me, it started in the Ed Woodward area and that's
16:03
predominantly not only because lack of football knowledge, but
16:07
to sell shirts. So whether it's an Angel De
16:10
Maria, a Paul Pop was slightly different in that obviously he
16:13
had a relation to United but. Would the comparison not be more
16:16
like you said, like we're not signing global stars, we're
16:19
signing domestic stars, but almost like the eyeballs on the
16:22
club, the aura like is that? Yeah, I think that's probably
16:27
where Carl's going with it, which is fair enough.
16:29
The thing, The thing is with Ajax and Barcelona in
16:32
particular, yeah, because it's Michael's essentially it's his,
16:35
it's his footprint on both football clubs and obviously
16:38
free Cruyff as well. So that's very detailed and
16:41
structured. And yeah, you know, there's
16:44
rules and it's been coached down the generations as well.
16:46
Whereas attacking football, which is what United are.
16:51
And like what we've been talking about, yeah, it's traditional
16:54
attributes, you know, fast football wingers, as says
16:58
dribblers, but also it's just wingers.
17:00
Like, you know, again, you can go back to yesteryear to even
17:04
the 80s when we didn't win that much in terms of league titles,
17:09
we won cups. Norman Whiteside, like speak to
17:12
anyone from the 80s, they love Norman Whiteside.
17:14
He's like Lee Sharp of like the early 90s for us in terms of
17:18
that, you know, magic, that imagination and the goals.
17:22
The interesting thing of United, Only three Manchester United
17:26
managers have won the What was the I knew this First Division
17:30
and you knew it was coming. Why?
17:31
What you're going to? What am I going to say?
17:33
No, not from you in particular, but like obviously Carriger's
17:37
he's banted and obviously he, he clearly thinks it, he he's
17:40
talked about how like, I don't know, is it 5 or 6 Liverpool
17:43
managers have won leagues over whatever 7080 years, whereas
17:48
we've only got 2. Yeah.
17:51
The The thing is, if you take Busby and Ferguson together,
17:55
what's that? What you recognise 30 years in
17:58
terms of winning league titles versus Shank without Shankly,
18:04
Bob Paisley and was it, I can't remember if Jay Fagos.
18:08
Yeah, they're continuations. Yeah, sorry, they're
18:12
continuations of the same dynasty as well, right?
18:15
So no, the point I was actually going to make is SO33 managers 2
18:20
of the the big names right Busby and Fergie.
18:24
The only Knights. Busby and Fergie both in their
18:27
eras were known or not known or had a reputation for being
18:33
tactically average. So Busby at the when he wins the
18:37
European Cup in 68, the team realises or feels this is the
18:42
end. That's the last chance that they
18:43
can get because football's moved on.
18:45
There's a modernization of football taking place, which is
18:48
more tactical and leads are coming up.
18:50
And basically Busby's philosophy was like, oh, I've got good
18:54
players, they'll work it out OK. And that football was changing
18:57
in the the late 60s, in the mid 60s and, and this was the end of
19:01
it. And actually, and the Ramsey at
19:03
the World Cup was very tactical, right, While Busby wasn't Fergie
19:07
as well. You won't remember this, but
19:09
when I was watching the in the the 90s and we're going into
19:12
Europe, we're constantly getting outwitted tactically by Italian
19:16
clubs, for example, right 99. Where there were drugs now, but
19:20
yeah. Yeah, but but there was this
19:21
idea, the idea, right? We were the 442 was naive that
19:26
actually you're outnumbered in midfield.
19:28
There's three against two or four against two and you're
19:30
content and even. And then we saw that as well
19:33
when Fergie went up against Pep and it was like they're running
19:35
circles around us, right? So actually, when we think of
19:39
DNA and our 2 greatest 2 only great managers really in, in
19:44
that history, tactics was not part of it.
19:47
It was squad building, it was youth, it was attacking
19:50
football, it was flair. It was bringing in management,
19:55
management and bringing in like a Cantonar and managing him or
19:58
having a best in managing him and being able to unlock the
20:03
these great talents. So this is where I mean, OK,
20:05
maybe it is close to Real Madrid because Real Madrid's a bit
20:08
like, OK, I've got some great players and Ancelotti was the
20:11
guy who could unlock it. Well, today, Savvyolon.
20:15
This so-called tactical genius has been fired.
20:19
Yeah. Straight.
20:20
So This is why I'm like, that's why you need to differentiate.
20:23
We do have Adna. So when people laugh and say oh,
20:25
what DNA what are you talking about, right?
20:28
Busby played A235 and Fergie played A-444411, right?
20:33
It's like, no, it's not tactical DNA, but there is something that
20:36
people associate with our club in its history and that and it's
20:41
about youth and it's about both. Managers always used to say, oh
20:45
we've got a working class fan base who've worked hard, now we
20:50
need to entertain them. Yeah, yeah.
20:53
No, it's fair. And like, I guess the reason
20:55
we're having this conversation about DNA is there's clearly a
20:58
feeling within the United fan fan base that we've diverged
21:01
away from our DNA because if we talk about the three points you
21:05
made there attacking football Academy and winning, we didn't
21:09
see any of that under Reuben. So hence why that feeling, you
21:13
know, I've talked about about my disconnection to the club.
21:16
So I think that's the reason we're talking about DNA and.
21:19
You wanted you wanted Jose, do you remember?
21:21
And I was so against Jose and for those exact reasons.
21:24
So why This is why I was questioning, oh, Steve, you're
21:27
more a Chelsea. When you think of when I think
21:29
of Chelsea, I think, OK, whatever way it is to get to win
21:31
the trophy, they they Revere Conte and Tushal and Jose
21:35
Marino. And I'm like, yeah, but they was
21:36
the football good. Yep.
21:39
But that was on the back of Van Hal where we didn't.
21:42
A lot of the fans, I didn't enjoy the football massively.
21:44
We weren't. We weren't.
21:46
Do you remember? I was like, get Guardiola and
21:48
you were like no, no, no, doesn't know the Premiership or
21:50
Premier League. I'll tell you, I'll tell you
21:51
what. So when you were talking about
21:53
Buzzbee and Fergie there, the one thing I was thinking about,
21:56
obviously I'm not young enough to have seen Buzzbee and neither
21:59
a YouTube. But from from all the tapes that
22:01
we see, the accounts, we hear the word that I think Fergie and
22:05
Busby have in common, not, not not being Scottish or not the
22:08
fact that they're knighted is stature.
22:11
I think they both had stature. And I think for a Manchester
22:14
United managers, stature is probably one of the biggest
22:17
qualities you need, you need. We've talked about the size of
22:19
the club, right, handling the media, handling the players.
22:22
And I think stature is probably, yeah, one of the biggest points.
22:26
And that's why, you know, I've said my list, Carlos number one.
22:29
I think he has that stature and this unlike the the DEI police
22:33
won't be happy with me. But I almost think a united
22:36
managers got to look a certain way as well.
22:38
Do you know, do you know what I mean on the touchline, like
22:40
because we've heard the accounts now or or the players didn't
22:43
like this manager, players didn't respect him.
22:45
It's all coming out the woodwork now that Reubens gone.
22:48
But I think there needs to be a respect for the manager as well,
22:51
which it doesn't sound like Reuben had to be honest in
22:54
hindsight. Some of it's self-inflicted
22:56
though when it comes to Reuben because like as it's talked
22:59
about, like him complaining about the amount of interviews,
23:04
you remember day one against Ipswich is getting interviewed
23:07
and Ed Sheeran like comes across him to shake Jamie Redknapp's
23:11
hand. He makes a point of saying, oh,
23:14
there's so many interviews and it's like, what did you expect,
23:18
Reuben? It's Manchester United like that
23:23
worried us. Would you remember all we say,
23:26
Steve? When it's fine to be honest and
23:30
like you tell the truth from press conferences.
23:33
But we flagged it up straight away when he was talking in
23:35
Lisbon and he was saying I didn't want the job at this
23:40
point. I wanted to have it in the
23:41
summer. And we said like, just better
23:44
not to say that, right? And you're right, Steve, United
23:49
manager, it's not just about stature, it's about being a club
23:53
man and, you know, statesmanlike.
23:55
And that's what Simat Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson done
23:58
brilliantly. And that's another, you know,
24:01
big character attribute that we're going to need from the new
24:04
guy. I think you're right.
24:05
He has to carry massive stature and the statesmanship quality.
24:10
My only concern with that, Steve, is that, you know, my
24:14
number one pick is Lewis Enrique, and now that he's
24:16
rejected the PSG contracts. Apparently I think he's come
24:20
out. So that's fake news, but yeah,
24:21
yeah. So I mean.
24:23
Like I said six months ago, like I do feel like that cycle will
24:26
come to an end because he's won the European Cup anyway.
24:29
So like there's not much to do apart from back-to-back.
24:32
So it's just a case of how long he wants to be in Paris.
24:34
But I worry about the squad because that's that's the thing.
24:39
Because like for a Carlo Lewis, Enrique Thomas Tookel, even this
24:43
is not a great squad for them. Yeah.
24:46
So like I guess with DNA, how does Michael Carrick restore the
24:51
Manchester United DNA as. I think it's that's why it's a
24:55
good choice right as this interim.
24:57
If you look at what we did last time from Ollie to Rannick,
25:02
Rannick's bringing some Red Bull in a high pressing thing and
25:06
with Ronaldo in the team, it was never going to work.
25:08
Carrick knows at the club understand the importance you
25:12
saw with Fletcher putting Lacey on, for example.
25:15
He'll understand the importance of giving young players a chance
25:19
and developing them. I'm sure we'll see more minutes
25:22
for Kobe mainly, for example, right?
25:25
Well, if there's anyone that can help copy mainly playing centre
25:27
midfield, it's Michael Carrick, right?
25:29
Exactly, Especially on the passing game, the bit we keep
25:31
talking about that he needs to improve.
25:33
I think he will. As I've mentioned the talk from
25:36
Middlesbrough, I didn't watch any of his Middlesbrough games
25:38
or very few of them, was that he did play proactive football.
25:43
That it was, there was a front foot football that yeah, he
25:47
tried to take the game to the opposition.
25:49
So I think you're going to get that from him.
25:50
And he was like that as a player.
25:52
If you look at what we always think about, Carrick is looking
25:55
for those forward passes. So I expect him to, yeah, want
26:01
his team to get the ball forward, be less worried about,
26:04
like I said, the Marco Silvas of this world sitting in a deep
26:08
block and then, you know, looking for mistakes on the Cat
26:10
like Jose Mourinho. Why?
26:12
You know, I don't like Jose Mourinho, I think.
26:14
Carrick like Ollie, was Ollie more counter attack.
26:17
It's it's Ollie was never tactics, wasn't it?
26:20
As yeah, that's my belief is that in a big game he'd sit back
26:24
and counter a bit like Fergie mixed tactics.
26:26
When Fergie went up against Arsenal, right?
26:29
We let them have the ball. No one went, oh, what are you
26:31
doing, Fergie? This is you know, we should be
26:33
on the front foot. It was like, no, this is smart.
26:35
We're going to suck them in and we're going to destroy them,
26:38
right? And then another game we'll play
26:39
in a lower level game, we'd have 70% possession and be battering
26:43
them. And that's what Ollie was like.
26:45
Some games we had a lot of the ball, other games we gave the
26:48
ball away. And we as fans just want to see
26:50
goals and how many times under Ollie we're like, oh, we've just
26:53
won four, one right, four and five.
26:55
Sometimes, especially around some Europa League games, we
26:58
were like smashing it. And under Ruben it was like, you
27:02
know, win by one goal. And that's why I hope we'll go
27:04
back to and even under Fletcher, like we, the Burnley game was a
27:09
draw. We.
27:10
Should have won. But we should have.
27:11
We had created a lot of chances. That's why even like, like even
27:15
under Reuben, the Bournemouth game, it was an absolute
27:18
craziness. But I enjoyed it.
27:20
I wish it was fun. It was like it could have been
27:23
like 883 or whatever. And that to me is what I'm
27:26
looking, looking to get. And I think character being a
27:28
bit more controlled I'm sure than than that Bournemouth game.
27:32
But I expect him to, yeah, want to entertain the fans, whether,
27:38
as Ash mentioned, he has the squad to do it is what I've
27:41
always been concerned about. I feel the playing talent isn't
27:44
there. We need our players back from
27:46
AFCON, we need some players back from injury.
27:48
But Bruno's back us all mount back.
27:50
If we can get Imbumo Ahmad back at some point.
27:53
Cesco scored a couple of goals. Nice goals, Steve, the Burnley
27:56
goals. Yeah, I know you're.
27:58
Not a fan of Cesco? I mean, I'm not not a fan.
28:02
I just think he's not Harry Kane, for example, in his prime,
28:05
is he? But he's young, so I get it.
28:08
But, but do you see the potential when you see glimpses
28:10
like that? You're like, oh, physical
28:12
specimen, good finishes. He needed those goals against
28:16
Burnley. And then he scored another one
28:18
actually, which is thought Brighton.
28:19
He scored Brighton at the corner, right.
28:20
So that's three. Three and the Fletcher two.
28:23
Yeah, yeah. So like get the ball in the box
28:25
to your striker. I mean, one thing he suffered
28:27
from is both Cunya and in Burma were very much look for their
28:32
own shots type of player, right, Cunya, I think during our
28:37
Christmas quiz where you said Cunya had the most shots in the
28:40
Premier League. Yeah.
28:42
Was it KISS? Sorry, did the quiz.
28:45
And when you watch him, you're like, oh, the guy's always
28:47
taking the shot. So I think, you know, pass it a
28:49
bit more to Cesco. Hopefully Carrick will, you
28:52
know, hopefully facilitate him a bit more, but I'm looking
28:54
forward to it. I'm more optimistic about it
28:57
than I was certainly with Radnik coming in because at least he's
29:00
got coaching credentials. You talk about the stature on
29:04
this in the sidelines when he was there after Ollie, you,
29:08
there was something that you felt, yeah, something football's
29:11
not just purely about results to me, something about attachment
29:15
to the club, people that you love, right.
29:19
So I'm happy about it. Yeah, fair enough.
29:22
And people forget, right? Was it Pep when he came through
29:25
at Barsa? He'd only ever coached the B
29:27
team, right? And then he got the the Barsa
29:29
first team job. So let's hope Michael Carrick is
29:32
our. Do you want him permanent?
29:34
Well. Let's see.
29:35
Let's see. In fact, I'll say it now, if we
29:37
finish in the top three. Yeah, top four, top five. 4
29:41
Because I think Villa, Villa and City and Arsenal just have too
29:45
many points, right? But that's what I mean, if we
29:46
finish top four, it's like he's done, he's done well, like very
29:49
well. But if he finishes top three,
29:51
pool mate, Oh yeah, no, it'll be unbelievable.
29:54
It'll be a good achievement, but I think it's going to.
29:55
Especially with this squad, like if he puts no bodies in, that
29:59
would be unbelievable. You say that but having been
30:02
knocked out the FA Cup, now we literally have one game a week
30:06
and. That is 17 games to the end of
30:10
the season now. That's what I mean.
30:11
So I mean, on one hand you can look at it and say an advantage,
30:14
but I'm actually really disappointed that are out of the
30:16
cup. I would have loved the cup run.
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30:41
Store. I broke my Old Trafford boycott
30:46
this weekend because we couldn't sell the tickets.
30:48
Wow. So I went down and managed to
30:50
get people to use the tickets at least so they didn't go to
30:52
waste. So I was at Old Trafford
30:54
yesterday and it wasn't great. You know, best chances fall into
30:59
Dallow. Yeah.
31:01
It was just another disappointing night at Old
31:03
Trafford. I start Crowd Steve because
31:07
like, it didn't come across well on TV.
31:09
Was it as quiet as it sounded? Well, given my situation, given
31:14
my situation, I'm, you know, rushing down to Old Trafford
31:16
like last minute, not having planned it, but I heard Carl
31:19
Anka saying it's like, you know, the quiet, as he said Old
31:22
Trafford in a while. Yeah, it was pretty quiet.
31:24
Obviously our seats are in the South Stand, so it's not the
31:27
most rowdy in there anyway, so it's always hard to tell.
31:29
But I think the the game kind of dictated it as well.
31:32
We didn't create too much. We had a few chances here and
31:35
there and the just the mood was a bit flat.
31:38
So I think the the way the game played out also fed into that.
31:42
I'm sorry, like we should be beating Brighton at home in the
31:44
FA Cup when it's the only cup competition we're left in.
31:47
You've got to be doing better than that, especially when your
31:49
manager's just been. I agree, our Old Trafford, but
31:52
this is my you know, like we're talking about the club
31:55
generally, but like I do think we've got a player quality
31:58
problem. You know, Chesco needs help,
32:01
right? I said this last January thing
32:04
as even quoted it to talk about in a podcast.
32:08
I said if we don't sign a striker, this is last season.
32:11
If we don't sign a striker, we're fucked.
32:13
I don't think it's quite as bad this this season but we we need
32:19
a couple of bodies. Yeah, The funny thing is I was
32:22
watching that game and and the previous game as well, thinking,
32:26
oh, we could do an extra centre back.
32:28
This is just because I'm so used to watching back three that it
32:33
just felt like there was just a body lacking in the penalty
32:35
area. Everyone says, oh, you know,
32:37
we're suited to. I do agree.
32:39
Like generally it's nicer to see a 4231 shape and put Bruno in
32:47
the number 10. But I keep saying like the
32:50
reason Bruno's playing deep, he's the one guy can pass the
32:52
ball forward. So you put him further up, you
32:54
will lose that ability to get the ball forward.
32:56
Keep telling you, Kobe, Mane's passing still needs a lot of
33:00
work, right? And he could he still couldn't
33:02
penetrate as much. And they keep saying, look, I
33:04
don't trust our defenders. It's centre backs in A to the
33:07
third man is required to shore that up.
33:10
So it's not surprising excuses. Though as not you per SE, but
33:14
like even even for the players because like you take their
33:18
second goal. We'll start with the first goal
33:21
quickly, right Allies positioning is just horrendous.
33:25
So he comes out to the ball. He doesn't put a tackle in his
33:29
body shape is all wrong in terms of like if you are going to you
33:33
know, face up the player and then he just allows him to pass
33:37
the ball. So like he's done nothing in
33:39
that in that scenario hasn't. That happened like 8 times this
33:41
season. Yeah, yeah, just just.
33:43
Every time they say how many metres we go.
33:46
Now why didn't Dalo brought the cross?
33:47
It's literally so boring. You know when we talk.
33:51
Diego Dalo should not be in the team.
33:53
Like I've always said, Mazrawi is a far superior player to
33:56
Dalo. Far superior.
33:58
And hopefully once he's back from AFCON, like he'll be
34:02
starting more. I mean this is 1 good thing
34:04
we've Reuben gone. Is that hopefully the Dalo, you
34:07
know, picking? Can I just give you a tweet
34:10
about Dalo? That is quite funny.
34:12
So if you put Dalo's brain into a horse, he would bark like a
34:16
dog. I think that sums up quite well,
34:19
to be fair. But quickly on the second goal
34:22
as well, like that was a really poor goal and I don't want to go
34:25
Alan Hanson, but like terrible defending.
34:29
Absolutely. TFC where was he?
34:31
Like the ball is played as well back and like he he's like
34:36
pushed up. Is it was it was it Martinez who
34:39
was the defender? Brighton have the ball on the
34:44
touchline, the balls played into Welbeck, who's in and around the
34:48
edge of the box. Yeah, Tinnez is like near
34:51
midfield. Welbeck is able to turn on the
34:55
ball and Euro is in a bit of a weird situation at the moment
34:59
because he's in poor form. But like, he's not helped.
35:02
He really isn't. And it's the thing, yeah, you
35:06
can argue about like having a third centre back covers for
35:09
gaps and stuff, but some of these players, they've got to do
35:12
better. Like, you know, some of these
35:14
guys are experienced guys, yeah. Like you know, Dalo Martinez,
35:18
I've got more sympathy for like a Euro or even a doggy, right?
35:22
Because like doggy played left back yesterday, you know, 1
35:26
tactical thing I was thinking about, right?
35:28
Because we are in January, obviously we all said in the
35:32
summer on multiple restaurants in Bilbao and San Sebastian
35:37
about, you know, our number one choice of position was midfield.
35:42
We do obviously need one. But if we can't get one for all
35:46
sorts of different reasons, yeah, trying, trying to
35:50
transition the ball quickly through midfield into a Bruno or
35:55
the front 3 is the way to go for the rest of the season.
35:59
Because yeah, otherwise we're going to have problems if we're
36:03
going to try and do like a big build up.
36:05
Are you talking like a Michael Carrick pass through the lines?
36:09
Yeah. That's literally that's what we
36:11
need. That's what that's what Martin
36:13
is is good at. That's the one thing of his
36:14
game. He's excellent.
36:16
But just again, like in a two, you're leaving yourself a bit
36:19
vulnerable defensively. So that Martinez, you know, to
36:24
the left back or into Cunha or into Bruno, that's a ball that's
36:29
on. But yeah, I personally, as you
36:33
know, you know, I trust him at Deluxe and my Maguire's as
36:36
proper defenders. When we need to act.
36:40
But he was, he started the season really well.
36:43
Think he's a big loss, yeah. We haven't looked the same
36:46
without him in the defensive situations.
36:50
Be interesting to see. Yeah.
36:51
Carrick midfielder. No natural midfielder and we
36:55
keep talking about we need to replace Michael Carrick.
36:57
Well, we have replaced Michael Carrick with Michael Carrick as
37:01
the manager but he can't play, you know, Agarte just not good
37:05
enough on the ball so he's not going to play.
37:07
Be interesting to see if he goes with the with the three Casimiro
37:12
menu Bruno combination and whether yeah, Kobe, I think Kobe
37:16
lovely is a dribbler so good in tight spaces.
37:19
Can Carrick? I know when Carrick was under
37:22
Ollie, he spent a lot of time with Fred and Kobe's a lot more
37:25
talented than Fred in terms of passing, so that could be a
37:29
great six months for Kobe. I've got a question for both of
37:32
you saying this is partly one of the reasons why Ruben erupted
37:36
with Jason Wilcox. So obviously we tried to get
37:40
some menu and I think the deal was 65,000,000.
37:44
Would you guys spend that allocation of money now if you
37:48
could? And do you have any names on
37:51
positions or players? Well, just firstly on that
37:54
point, again, I think talk of the Devils were talking about
37:57
this. Obviously we went in for
37:58
Simenyo, you know, great talent. But you know, it's not just a
38:02
case of that budget is available for another player.
38:05
It's because it was Simenyo, you know, they were willing to
38:07
possibly push that extra bit. So do I expect there to be
38:12
65,000,000 available this January?
38:14
No, but if it is US, you're probably better to answer that
38:18
in terms of who we could sign. I don't know who's available
38:22
because we've talked about midfield and we've always talked
38:24
about the names that we like, right?
38:26
Is Wharton's probably not available for 65 million in?
38:29
January maybe after Mac, after Macclesfield knocked them out
38:32
the FA Cup, his price might have come down by.
38:35
Yeah. I mean, I think in the summer
38:36
he'll be available for that type of level.
38:38
I don't know if we, you know, that what did we end up being
38:41
asked for for Buliba? And he's not had the best
38:43
season. Right. 100 million, I'm sure.
38:45
Yeah, I think all, all of those Premier League ones, not till
38:48
the summer, yeah. So I don't know who's believer.
38:52
Elliot Anderson. Anderson, who's knocking around?
38:55
More terms, it's going to be alone, I reckon more likely
38:58
alone. And also again, we're knocked
38:59
out the FA Cup. We have one game a week.
39:02
I I'd really wouldn't expect, I'd be surprised if we do any
39:05
business in Jan. We have players coming back and
39:07
up from Afghan. We usually get linked with
39:10
Adrian Rabbio at some point and his mum sees his mum getting
39:14
away a thing. Doing the deal, I actually
39:18
thought Connor Gallagher was available on loan, but now I'm
39:21
seeing like he's linked with Tottenham and Aston Villa for
39:24
like 40 million. But look, he's not a passer.
39:26
But I just thought you when I was talking bodies.
39:28
Some legs in midfield. Yeah, alone, but that doesn't
39:31
look likely. Who's who's the who's the bald
39:34
guy we had on loan as well for a little while?
39:37
Played in the FA Sofia. Amrabat.
39:39
Amrabat, where is he? Didn't he do well?
39:41
I'm sure. I'm sure he'd done well when he
39:42
left. You know I've.
39:43
Got a name for you, Steve? I'm going to pull one bright out
39:46
the. Hand it's going to be it's going
39:47
to be an oldie he's. Going to absolutely love this
39:49
name. It's.
39:50
Going to be an oldie how? About we how about we get on the
39:52
on the blower to Saudi and ask for Reuben Nevis, OK.
39:56
He's my boy, Steve. Steve loves Raven Nevis.
40:01
We'll promise them Bruno in the summer for the rebuild.
40:04
Yeah, yeah. It's like part of the you would
40:07
do a job, you would definitely do a job.
40:09
Can we have Nevis for six months and we'll give you Bruno in the
40:11
summer? Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I, I
40:14
really, we might do one deal or two deals here, here or there,
40:18
but I, I'm not expecting anything.
40:20
I just think we need to just work with the squad we've got
40:23
really and get through to the to the summer.
40:27
Yeah, I'm surprised we did go in for Semenya, right?
40:31
Yeah, I'm surprised. That just shows there is some
40:34
ambition there because you would have thought, you know, you've
40:38
have, have you got enough attackers?
40:40
Do you need another attacker? But yeah, clearly a player they
40:44
rate really highly. We kind of messed it up though
40:46
because we went for him in the summer and apparently Ruben and
40:51
Jason Wilcox had dinner with him.
40:53
I don't know if it was together, but like they met him so they
40:56
obviously had clear plans for him and obviously Ruben was very
40:59
pissed off that we didn't get him.
41:00
But yeah, obviously I think what what happened was Bournemouth
41:04
wanted 70 million. We weren't willing to go to that
41:07
level and then we went to go and get Brian and yeah, we weren't
41:12
far off. I think it was 65 + 5 right As
41:15
in the end was. 80 on the last according.
41:19
To well, I was making up the point of that point was simply
41:23
the fact that we overpaid when you were saying that any us did
41:27
good deals. What about you, Ashley?
41:29
What are you expecting to do business this Jan?
41:33
No, I'm not expecting it, but I would certainly look to because
41:36
I do worry like what we would end up, you know, league wise
41:41
without a couple of positions. Like even if you were to offer
41:44
me an extra centre back and a striker of some description,
41:49
both online or whatever, right. Not trying to touch the summer
41:52
budget too much. I'll definitely do it.
41:54
It's quite too. Big now it is, but we we yeah,
41:58
but injuries. I used to always say bodies
42:01
because of Europe. It's obviously like no, that is
42:04
a Garlow good signing because Europa League.
42:06
You need bodies for the Europa League, right?
42:08
Injuries. Injuries.
42:10
Simple as that, I guess. Too much?
42:12
No, But McGuire gets injured too much.
42:14
You're playing, let's say you're playing about back four.
42:17
Yeah, So 2 centre backs. You're saying McGuire, you've
42:20
got Delict, you've got Martinez, you've got Euro, you've got
42:23
Heaven. How many centre backs do you
42:24
need? Yeah, but Martinez is always a
42:27
creature away. He's had two and like, yeah, but
42:31
you got a you got a squad plan, right?
42:33
We don't do this. Is that why, Yeah, Mount's
42:36
always injured. Luke Shaw, to be fair, he's done
42:39
well this season. He needed a rest, obviously
42:42
yesterday. But like we we do get I would.
42:44
Agree. I would agree with you, Ash as
42:45
well, because we went into this season saying, oh, you know, no
42:48
Europe and we should benefit from that, but we've.
42:49
Seen. What benefits have we seen?
42:51
However, however, getting knocked out the FA Cup is quite
42:54
significant. Not just the fact that we've got
42:56
less games, but us. We had 22 Cup games last season.
43:00
Maybe half of them are Old Trafford.
43:01
In terms of revenue, we've lost a fair chunk of revenue this
43:05
season and obvious obviously FFP, right?
43:07
So the budget is going to be impacted through the loss of
43:11
getting knocked out the FA Cup as well, right?
43:13
Yeah, which is why qualifying for Europe next season is just,
43:16
you know, crucial. It's ever talking crucial.
43:19
Pivotal was the word that I was looking for.
43:21
Yeah. Yeah, I know about like, we're
43:24
talking about like Mount getting injured, for example.
43:26
Let's play Lacey. Looks good.
43:28
Got the kids. We just talked about the.
43:30
No I'm talking striker. I think Chesko needs help but
43:33
mate is forget xerxe like he's a good he's he's fine as a body.
43:37
Move Xerxe on, then bring us. Bring Cesco in.
43:41
If you can't move Xerxe on, you can't have another guy because
43:44
you've got Cooney can play up there and Boomo can play up
43:46
there, right? And then not if they're not
43:49
scoring goals. We've got, we've got, we've got
43:50
a. Little Bit and Boomo and Cunha,
43:52
you know, we'll we'll find that. We'll find their form again.
43:55
Then you've got we'll. See, we've come back because
43:57
like, he's got 4 I think. But we're lacking width, we're
44:00
lacking width, right? So you want possibly some of
44:03
those players on the wing. Obviously Ahmad will be on the
44:05
wing, but even one of Kenya or and Boomo is going to be on the
44:08
wing surely. I was thinking this, Steve, the
44:11
other day actually, because like Ahmad and Boomo are coming back
44:15
and then like, you're going to get your wish.
44:17
Like in certain games, Brian is going to play on the left.
44:21
I was thinking about that the other day as well and you to
44:24
taking the piss out of me and the team of the season.
44:26
But that is actually the one position.
44:28
If we're going to get a alone, I would I would back a striker
44:32
because if you can put the ball in there, that can get you, you
44:35
know, an important win, which can move you up the table.
44:38
That is the one position I would probably back.
44:41
I mean, I don't, I don't know who it was.
44:42
Strike. That's the mean.
44:43
That's. The thing?
44:44
Yeah. Who are you going to get that
44:46
It's going to make a significant impact And when I say when, and
44:50
I said back in the day, oh, it's good to get a Garlo as a body,
44:53
it's for Europa League. We don't have Europa League,
44:55
Premier League games. If there's if there's a striker
44:58
that can get you like 5 neck goals for the season, trust me
45:02
it'll be worth it as a loan. Right there must be a striker.
45:06
Look I don't work for United. If if my full time job was
45:09
scouting I could give you a list of names.
45:11
Did you see Henrik Larsen was on the Overlap this week and
45:15
obviously. He I need to watch.
45:16
So what do you say? Well, just the fact that United
45:18
got him on loan right in this January period and it was like
45:21
3-4 months. It was I think it was the O six
45:23
O 7 season. So even in that season when we
45:26
had Rooney and Ronaldo, obviously we're in more
45:27
competitions, but it would be, I'm not saying goes to the
45:31
Swedish league, but it would be either an older player that
45:35
scored around Europe or it's going.
45:38
To be strikers around Europe or or the world where you could get
45:41
online. They'll come to United for six
45:43
months. Let me give you and I think
45:44
that. Of course I'm, I'm, I'm giving
45:46
you another call into Saudi. How about the Ruben Nebens?
45:50
I even Tony come. Yeah.
45:52
Tony yeah. Ben the only.
45:54
Problem is he will have problems with HRMCI think because I don't
45:58
think he's been in Saudi long enough, but yeah.
46:01
OK, even even a Benzema, you know?
46:06
What about Cristiano? That's Michael Caveo, Michael.
46:12
Carrick bring up the. Carrick gets in well with
46:15
Ronaldo. Yeah, he managed him pretty
46:16
well. He dropped him against Chelsea.
46:18
You remember when he had the three-game stint at Stamford
46:21
Bridge. Yeah.
46:22
Did he go to that game? No, I didn't, but I think
46:25
Carrick's got the best win ratio on record for any United
46:29
manager. But obviously it's a small
46:31
sample size. It's going.
46:32
To ruin that very quickly. Isn't it?
46:34
Yeah, exactly. Well, he he won away in
46:37
Villarreal. Like again, historically for
46:40
United, winning in Spain is very difficult.
46:42
Yeah. So before we just like look
46:45
ahead to the rest of the season, I think the objective is quite
46:48
clear. There's just one area I want to
46:49
touch on briefly because I've been telling you guys since the
46:53
start of the season that in the next 12 months there's going to
46:57
be some ownership movement, the early signs of it.
47:03
And for me, I can start to see the perfect storm brewing.
47:08
So part of that storm is obviously the fact that we've
47:11
had to sack our manager. If you look across socials this
47:14
last week, the scrutiny on Wilcox, Burrada, Ratcliffe has
47:17
been huge, even though we've been pointing this out on the
47:20
pod for months. The second thing I think
47:23
probably the most crucial thing is the fact that ENEOC Score
47:27
business is not the healthiest at the moment.
47:29
We know that they've exited other sporting ventures such as
47:34
sponsorship for the All Blacks, the Tottenham sponsorship
47:37
nearly. Went to court, yeah.
47:39
When nearly went to court over there and there's talk that
47:42
they're trying to sell nice. So I think that's actually a big
47:45
a big factor. But one one area I want to get
47:47
your insight on us is a new story that came out a few weeks
47:53
ago shared by our friend Kieran McGuire.
47:56
And again, just talking about in Ineos core, core business and a
48:00
couple of the points that were mentioned in this story, I will
48:04
just read out to you and maybe you can help explain this to the
48:08
listeners that don't follow finance as closely as we do.
48:11
But the debt rates in agencies inflicted further misery on
48:15
Ineos with a series of downgrades this year that risk
48:19
compounding its financial strain by making it more expensive to
48:22
borrow. Moody's has lowered its rating
48:24
on any As twice since September. The most recent downgrade, just
48:28
earlier in December, followed publication of the company's
48:32
financial results. So I think you used to work for
48:34
one of the debt rating agencies, right?
48:37
Yes. Can you help?
48:38
Explain that Well, I didn't work in the rating agency itself, but
48:41
in what would you like to know? I can tell you about.
48:44
So what? What does that mean then, you
48:46
know, in terms of two downgrades, credit rating?
48:48
Credit ratings basically just an independent view of a company's
48:53
credit worthiness. They're likely had to pay back
48:55
essentially on their on their debt.
48:57
Any OS is what we would call high yield or leveraged as a
49:01
company has been for a while. I don't know where the rating is
49:04
now was double B, Maybe it's gone down.
49:06
Highly leveraged means it's like lots of loans, OK.
49:10
Highly leveraged means that the amount of debt they have
49:13
relative to the income they have, right, is quite high.
49:17
A bit like if you think about you as an individual when you
49:21
have a mortgage and a house, you know, what does your income look
49:25
like in terms of, you know, your job and how much is the amount
49:28
of the cost of the loan that you've taken out.
49:31
Ineos generally has a lot of debt and it's just the business
49:34
model they run. A lot of companies do run this
49:36
model. It's quite, you know, prevalent,
49:39
especially in modern times in the influx of private equity.
49:43
So the private equity business model is get a company, leverage
49:47
it. The Glaze is very similar,
49:50
right? Get an entity that has good cash
49:52
flows, leverage it up, you can still pay that back over time.
49:57
So Ineos is one of those companies.
49:59
They've their base businesses chemicals, right?
50:03
So they make a lot of like plastics and refinery of Petro
50:07
chemicals. So I think the pellets that go
50:10
into creating, I don't know, plastic bottles and stuff,
50:13
etcetera, but obviously we know about things like the UK and
50:18
Russia situation causing energy prices to go up.
50:20
So the European energy market isn't great.
50:22
That doesn't help when it comes to chemicals.
50:26
So their businesses, you know, they've got some American
50:29
business, but it's quite, quite large in in Europe.
50:32
So yeah, that clearly I haven't actually looked at these
50:36
financials. If you want we could do a deep
50:38
dive in, in the office at some point and I can actually go and
50:40
study it and have a closer look because sort of the leveraged
50:43
finance space is one that I. How often does that happen where
50:46
you'd see two downgrades in the space of three months?
50:49
Is that concerning? That is concerning, Yeah.
50:53
So it does. But it does.
50:53
Happen though, like they're not the first company, yeah, so I'm
50:57
not massively surprised, but yeah, it's definitely concerning
51:00
because because of the way the global economy is at the moment
51:03
like, you know, if you want. To they had a terrible time
51:07
during the previous financial crisis, but they restructured
51:10
their way out of it. Yeah, right.
51:12
So. But my point is, you know,
51:14
their, their core business is obviously not in the greatest
51:17
position. Jim's got 1.25 billion worth of
51:21
equity at the time that he invested tied up in United.
51:25
So this is what I mean by the perfect storm.
51:27
It's starting to brew. There's also the 1958, which is
51:30
the supporters group which organised, you know, some of the
51:33
protests over the last five years.
51:36
I think when that Liverpool game got called off 3-4 years ago,
51:40
you know, a lot of them were involved in that.
51:42
So this is what I mean by the perfect storm is starting to
51:45
brew. We know about the Glazers, you
51:47
know, we're looking at Full Sail 2-3 years ago.
51:50
So yeah, I do think in these next 6 to 12 months it's going
51:55
to get very, very interesting now that the scrutiny has
51:59
started to turn on to the ownership.
52:01
Because for example, and we have to talk about this, if Carrick
52:04
doesn't work out, let's say we do finish 8th, 9th, we have a
52:07
drop off. Can you imagine the state of the
52:09
fan base in the club in the summer?
52:11
I don't think they'll even care about who the next permanent
52:13
manager is too much. Yeah, I mean, the the issue is
52:19
there will be a storm, but fans will still turn up to old
52:24
traffic light they have for the last 13 years.
52:27
Yeah, they will. But the mood of the fan base,
52:29
having experienced the last 13 years, there's already a bit of
52:32
that mood now of like, doesn't even matter who, the next
52:35
manager. Is, I think there's a lot of
52:37
apathy, especially at Old Trafford.
52:39
I think that was represented pretty well yesterday.
52:42
It's like you hope you should be able to beat Brighton at home,
52:47
But once the first goal goes in, we didn't play that well.
52:51
And then once Welbeck, you know, pretends to be R9, then yeah.
52:57
Like, I don't even really feel anger.
52:59
Like, I'm not like on social media enough to know 100%, but
53:03
like, you know, the fans I speak to, there's just more apathy
53:08
than, yeah, anger. I'm looking at the fixtures.
53:11
I was thinking we need some. Do you remember 10 Hard came in,
53:14
It looked like a shit show and then Sancho did that lovely move
53:19
and Liverpool SAT. Was it James Milner?
53:21
He sat down and then sank past Allison.
53:24
Yeah, it's a Manchester Derby coming up, said Manchester.
53:28
Tell you what, Michael Carey wants out.
53:32
But then we got Arsenal going to the Emirates, right?
53:36
That that's two games where, yeah, you don't fancy us like
53:41
you didn't fancy US against Liverpool.
53:43
You pull out a result there. It's very a fan baseball term
53:47
very quickly to be positive. That's true, yeah.
53:50
Yeah. It's obviously results driven,
53:52
you know, so yeah, a win against one of those teams will lift the
53:57
lift the fan base. So yeah, you.
54:00
Need a momentum shift. What was interesting, I felt
54:04
reading body language after the Brighton game, the players
54:07
looked absolutely very deflated, Right.
54:10
They need a lift. They need, there needs to be
54:13
something to just turn it round. If it doesn't, we could be down
54:17
the Randnick route again where it just feels like you're
54:20
playing out the season and it's just miserable.
54:24
See, one thing I've noticed with the chat, let's kick it off
54:28
community group, especially the United one, I've heard the words
54:34
Jason Wilcox and ego pop up over the last like couple of days and
54:38
I haven't like read too much over the last few days.
54:41
But yeah, I'm starting to like think about it more now.
54:45
And it's like obviously this famous meeting before the Leeds
54:49
game, it's one, it's one hell of a fallout, right?
54:53
Because obviously they never had a plan to fire.
54:55
Him, yeah, which is proven by the fact that they've helped do
54:59
this process over. The last this process right like
55:01
that that that's all you need to know.
55:02
So this wasn't planned. Like I said, it's one hell of a
55:05
fallout. And you, you just wonder like,
55:09
what the hell was said in that meeting for Wilcox to come to
55:13
the decision where he goes to his mate, Omar Barada, that, you
55:17
know, Ruben needs to be fired at this point.
55:19
Because, you know, I've made it clear and I've got no problem
55:23
with it. And I've said it many a time on
55:25
the pod recently, like even I right, I would replace Ruben in
55:29
a heartbeat. But I've always said there's a
55:31
time and place to do it. And I think I've been said on
55:34
the New Year's resolution pod, like happy to wait till the
55:38
summer to do it, right? Like, this was obviously never
55:40
in the plan. So like need to find out details
55:43
about like what happened there. Yeah, agreed, it was weird time
55:47
and I. Didn't we have a 5000 page
55:49
athletic article I haven't read yet?
55:51
Surely they did one. Yeah, but they've done one.
55:54
But like, you know, to be fair to them, like it's a great
55:57
article, but it doesn't. We still don't know.
56:00
You know, what was it? The fact that Reuben said to
56:02
Jason Wilcox, go fuck your mum, right?
56:04
We don't know. Well the only thing I think it
56:07
was from the Athletic article is after the meeting Reuben
56:10
basically said I need to leave I'm going to call my agent.
56:13
Hence why the comments, you know, pre and post leads kind of
56:16
make sense, especially the post leads comments like he's almost,
56:20
you know, really, really putting it on the board to fire him.
56:23
I think the next few weeks are going to be interested in
56:26
obviously with the Derby and Arsenal away, we will obviously
56:29
have more time on the podcast to probably go back and talk about
56:33
this as more details come out. But I think for now, let's just
56:37
end with a prediction for the Derby, as I could sense you
56:41
trying to build up the positive vibes there.
56:43
So I'll let you go first on your prediction for the Derby,
56:45
Michael Carrick's first game. Honestly, I mean, City should
56:50
win this game, right? This far superior team again for
56:54
the league. But I don't want to say
56:58
positive. I want to say I'm delusional.
57:00
I always believe in in the players.
57:02
I always believe we can pluck something out backed against the
57:05
wall, you know, Big, big, big, big, big Game 21 United.
57:11
No, we're Harry Maguire. There's your striker, there's
57:16
your striker, Ash. You see McGuire and Cesco
57:19
unstoppable at the Black Post. I mean, how do you defend that?
57:22
I love Fletcher, had to resort to that as well.
57:24
What? About you, Steve.
57:27
I have got a sneaky feeling that we might get something as well,
57:30
and again, it could be delusional, it could be the
57:32
heart. But I'll go draw, I'll go one
57:36
all. We get a result which he'd
57:37
probably take, so Ash leaves it with you.
57:41
As ticked my 21 so I'll go 22 and we score in the last minute
57:46
to equalise. Oh, a little Desmond.
57:49
Cool. All right, we'll wrap it up
57:50
there. Hopefully no more bombshells to
57:52
happen this week. We expect Carrick to be
57:54
confirmed. And then, yeah, we have the
57:55
Manchester Derby. So we'll have a podcast next
57:59
week, which will be fun once again.
58:02
So thanks for tuning into this episode, and we'll catch you on
58:05
the next one.