Latest / Your Money, Your Rules | Financial Mastery, Wealth Mindset, Leadership Principles, Intuitive Decision-Making, Human Design / Ep. 58 Financial Planning for Self-Employed Therapists (with special guest Ryan Derousseau)

Transcript

Ep. 58 Financial Planning for Self-Employed Therapists (with special guest Ryan Derousseau) · Your Money, Your Rules | Financial Mastery, Wealth Mindset, Leadership Principles, Intuitive Decision-Making, Human Design

• 0:00
  Erin Gray: You're listening to Generate a Life Well-Lived podcast.
• 0:03
  Erin Gray: I'm your friend and confidant, erin Gray.
• 0:05
  Erin Gray: I'm a former certified financial planner, turned human design, financial mentor and guide to entrepreneurs.
• 0:10
  Erin Gray: I believe our money and our business can only thrive at the level of our emotional wellbeing.
• 0:16
  Erin Gray: I empower entrepreneurs to feel confident with their money and in their business so that they can have fun now and in the future.
• 0:22
  Erin Gray: On this podcast, we will explore all things money, business and self-development, including human design.
• 0:29
  Erin Gray: I hope you enjoy the journey where I share everything that I know and am continuing to learn along the way, as I honor my heart's desires while inspiring and encouraging you to do the same.
• 0:39
  Erin Gray: Hey, hey, my friends, how are we today?
• 0:41
  Erin Gray: So, on today's podcast, I have Ryan Darusu with United Financial Planning and he is a certified financial planner and we are going to talk about his story, how he got into financial planning and we're going to talk about I think we share a lot of similar beliefs or values.
• 0:59
  Erin Gray: He's going to talk a little bit I always call it like you know, pulling uplifting the veil, you know, behind your laptop, and like what do you see on your end?
• 1:07
  Erin Gray: Which is very similar to what I see about how, um, you know clients we haven't received schooling Like, how are we expected to know what we don't know?
• 1:16
  Erin Gray: Um, we don't always have to be optimizing our cash and coming from that pressured place.
• 1:21
  Erin Gray: And also about your, your different views, which I love, about, in a way, self-insured and having fun versus emergency fun, and maybe we don't need all the protection that we think we might, or just a different way to think about it.
• 1:36
  Erin Gray: So I want to first welcome you, thank you for sharing your time and your knowledge with us, and let's dive in.
• 1:44
  Ryan Derousseau: Absolutely.
• 1:45
  Ryan Derousseau: I'm happy to be here, love talking about these types of topics.
• 1:48
  Ryan Derousseau: Talk about them all the time, frankly, so I'm looking forward to it.
• 1:52
  Erin Gray: Yeah, so let's dive in.
• 1:54
  Erin Gray: Let's talk about just a little bit about your journey, how you got into financial planning and then who are your clients that you help to love and love to support and help.
• 2:03
  Ryan Derousseau: Yeah, so you know, like probably all of us very you know roundabout sort of way in, but I actually, out of school, was a journalist and I worked for in journalism for about probably about 10 years and it just so happened that after school I kind of found myself working for publications like Fortune and Money, where I was delving into investments, personal finance, those sort of topics and in fact one of my first like quote unquote sort of focuses was like financial planners.
• 2:40
  Ryan Derousseau: So like the people that I am today, so like the people that I am today, but I was actually covering them, and so I kind of learned one the tricks that you know not so above the board financial planners use, but also sort of the best ways to go about developing this business, sort of like what do clients actually gain from this stuff?
• 2:59
  Ryan Derousseau: That sort of thing.
• 3:00
  Ryan Derousseau: And so, a few years ago, wanted to make the switch, wanted to work with one-on-one with people.
• 3:06
  Ryan Derousseau: Meanwhile, almost the entire time I was writing, I was self-employed, and so I was learning all about what's good, what's bad about self-employment.
• 3:15
  Ryan Derousseau: And so when I made the shift, I wanted to work with those who work for themselves, and a group that I happened to really connect with and needed that guidance were private practice therapists.
• 3:25
  Ryan Derousseau: And so, you know, I always consider myself I work with anyone, but I really like working with the self-employed and then have a particular expertise in the private practice space.
• 3:35
  Erin Gray: Now yeah, I love that.
• 3:37
  Erin Gray: So, in terms of because I think when you know I always talk to my guests before we actually hit record and have and have a podcast and you and I shared, you know, you shared with me offline, like the, the sentiment that your clients like I think it's across the board right Like your clients are saying this, my clients say this and it's this idea of like we should be further along, or I should know this, and I would love it if, kind of your take on that and and and share kind of how you, you know, guide and talk to your clients about that.
• 4:11
  Ryan Derousseau: Yeah.
• 4:12
  Ryan Derousseau: So there's always this idea like we talk with our friends and whatnot, and it's like we think that everyone else is just so far ahead of where we are and whatnot, and the reality is we are not taught any of this stuff.
• 4:25
  Ryan Derousseau: Like I happened to learn this stuff because I happened to cover investments right out of school.
• 4:33
  Ryan Derousseau: Like if I hadn't done that, I probably would just be at the same spot as a lot of listeners and clients and whatnot.
• 4:40
  Ryan Derousseau: And so to say that like there's been some sort of fault of yours to not have learned this is really it's more of a societal fault, it's not like a personal fault.
• 4:52
  Ryan Derousseau: And so one I like to point that out to people just to be aware of like yeah, you were not equipped with, like the tactics and tools, so one, you shouldn't like internalize that.
• 5:03
  Ryan Derousseau: And then two, despite all of that, you have probably created gains for yourself in some ways that you are not even considering People who may be kind of deep into debt but have incredible amount of education and knowledge.
• 5:19
  Ryan Derousseau: Well, they have that incredible education and knowledge and now maybe it is sort of utilizing that in some way.
• 5:27
  Ryan Derousseau: But when you're looking back, you see a lot of gains.
• 5:31
  Ryan Derousseau: I talked to folks who may be in their like early 60s and have, say, a million dollars to their name.
• 5:38
  Ryan Derousseau: And they look back and they say, gosh, why didn't I do this or why didn't I do that?
• 5:43
  Ryan Derousseau: I could have so much more.
• 5:44
  Ryan Derousseau: And meanwhile they're ignoring the fact that they have a million dollars to their name.
• 5:49
  Ryan Derousseau: And so how do we like work with that?
• 5:52
  Ryan Derousseau: And, yeah, we all have goals.
• 5:54
  Ryan Derousseau: We all have things that we want to achieve in life and big part of financial planning in general is understanding those goals and trying to help you get there.
• 6:02
  Ryan Derousseau: But let's not short, um short, thrift ourselves.
• 6:05
  Ryan Derousseau: You know like we, we, uh, we have done a lot in our lives and take pride in that.
• 6:10
  Erin Gray: Yeah, I think that that brings up you didn't say the words, right, but like the shame and the guilt.
• 6:15
  Erin Gray: Like I, I financial planning, you know I went to school for financial planning.
• 6:22
  Erin Gray: But like, besides that, like in college, right, like because those were required courses to sit for the CFP, right, like that that's not a a thing that we're not really doing in in high school.
• 6:35
  Erin Gray: We're not teaching that kind of stuff, we're not teaching it as a just a general like you know how you have your undergrad stuff or what do you call like your basic classes that you have to take, like your history and your your maths and all that, like there's, there's none of that that is a requirement.
• 6:48
  Erin Gray: And if you don't grow up in a house where, I mean, I meet a lot of people that like money was kind of a squirrely thing for you know, like emotionally right.
• 6:56
  Erin Gray: Like if you don't grow up in a house where your parents either talk about money from a very safe and neutral place and they want you to learn some basic things, right Like we, we don't get that.
• 7:06
  Erin Gray: That's kind of where it starts.
• 7:08
  Erin Gray: And if it doesn't start there and we don't get it in school, then like where are we supposed to get it.
• 7:12
  Erin Gray: And I think that you know the shame, those feelings of shame and guilt that we have around, not and I'm air quoting for those of you listening for for not knowing keeps us more of not knowing, right, like we don't ask for help, we don't ask for ask questions because we feel silly.
• 7:31
  Erin Gray: And I'm air quoting, right, like silly or stupid.
• 7:33
  Erin Gray: Like we have so many stories around why we should know this already, versus dropping the stories and being like, okay, this is where I'm at.
• 7:41
  Erin Gray: And also here's the other thing of we we might not know financially, but we know lots of other things.
• 7:47
  Erin Gray: Right, like you're talking about therapists.
• 7:48
  Erin Gray: Right, like they know lots of other things and we discount ourselves because we we come and we have this lens of looking at like, well, I don't know my finances, but there's other things that you do know that you aren't you know, giving yourself credit for yeah.
• 8:06
  Ryan Derousseau: And I will also add that, like that shame and that guilt of preventing you to ask questions is actually leaving you open for exploitation.
• 8:16
  Ryan Derousseau: I would say that the majority of the financial institution and world is built on that lack of education and that shame, because that's how they can sell products that you don't need.
• 8:28
  Ryan Derousseau: That's how they sell tools that are not actually going to be worthwhile for you but they are worthwhile for the person selling that said product, and so recognizing that is always key and then like taking that next step.
• 8:43
  Ryan Derousseau: It's always about that next step of actually asking questions, whether it's asking questions for to a trusted friend or someone like me, but like finding finding some way to at least like get comfortable with the idea of asking the questions we don't need.
• 8:56
  Ryan Derousseau: You know, I again I work with a lot of self employed folks and so therefore, they are inherently intellectually curious.
• 9:05
  Ryan Derousseau: It's tends to be a trait that I come across, um, but even when it comes to finances, they may not, may not be.
• 9:12
  Ryan Derousseau: Showing that, and, um, I'm always it's part of the process is like let's get over that.
• 9:18
  Ryan Derousseau: Feel free Ask me any, any questions that you possibly can, because that's what I'm here for.
• 9:23
  Erin Gray: Yeah, I always say, like you know, judgment and curiosity can't exist in the same space, right?
• 9:28
  Erin Gray: And so, when we have so much judgment around where we are, around our situation, around our finances, there's not room for curiosity.
• 9:35
  Erin Gray: And so, like you said, even though most entrepreneurs are very curious, when we have such judgment about ourselves, about where we are, our financial position, lack of knowing or whatever it might be, then there's not that room to be curious.
• 9:48
  Erin Gray: For that I love what you said about the financial industry, because I feel like and I'd be curious, your thoughts like it's, it feels sometimes and I say financial industry, I mean like, like bookkeeping and accounting and financial planning and estate planning and all of that kind of stuff like very and I think the world is right like very fear-based versus what are we moving toward, what do we want to create?
• 10:14
  Erin Gray: And, like you said and I'd be, you know, if you're open to sharing, like, if you're, if you're talking to people from that space of fear or trying to sell things that maybe people don't need and you're not aware, um, yeah, like how, what do you, I guess, suggest for clients?
• 10:35
  Erin Gray: Like, when you're hiring a CFP, you're looking for someone that you can trust and to guide you along this journey, like what are some of the, the questions or the, the advice that you give people when they're interviewing someone.
• 10:48
  Ryan Derousseau: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:49
  Ryan Derousseau: Um.
• 10:49
  Ryan Derousseau: So there is like a huge debate in the CFP space and we go back and forth as sort of like the proper business model of like what best serves clients, and like CFPs will like have endless debates about this.
• 11:05
  Ryan Derousseau: Meanwhile, like most people don't care.
• 11:07
  Ryan Derousseau: Um, and the problem is like the people who should care are the people who are paying for the product and, and so the reason I'm a fee only advisor which is that term fee only is because it's the only way that I, from my third party, when I was a journalist, would evaluate things and believe that I was getting true advice, because if it was someone getting commission or someone commission-based, they could be selling insurance or talking about insurance when I was a journalist.
• 11:43
  Ryan Derousseau: In a way, that's really just benefiting them and I could never know for sure.
• 11:47
  Ryan Derousseau: So I would only interview fee only advisors, and so when I was making the switch, I was very adamant that I was going to be a fee only.
• 11:57
  Ryan Derousseau: There's a term called fiduciary, so if you have a CFP, if you're talking to someone with the CFP letters, they have to be a fiduciary for you.
• 12:06
  Ryan Derousseau: But what does that mean, right?
• 12:10
  Ryan Derousseau: So like, if you're working for, if you're talking to.
• 12:13
  Ryan Derousseau: You know, let's say, a brokerage CFP.
• 12:16
  Ryan Derousseau: Well, they have products that they're selling and they have a mix of products that they can sell, and sure it's within the best interest of you, but it's also best interest of them too, and so it's like a combo, whereas I find that the fee only aspect is the only way to connect the business model to that term fiduciary, and so that's why I always say look for that If it's with me.
• 12:43
  Ryan Derousseau: Even when people are like interviewing me, because often I'll encourage them to talk to one or two advisors outside of me as well I'm always pushing them to fee only sort of design.
• 12:53
  Ryan Derousseau: And then after that it's really about what your needs are and what you want to get from the financial planning experience.
• 13:00
  Ryan Derousseau: Because you know, like studies have been found I've done and it's like 80% of people choose their financial planner based on how much they just connect with the person.
• 13:09
  Ryan Derousseau: It's like a one-to-one thing, and so you're going to have to feel comfortable with that person.
• 13:14
  Ryan Derousseau: And so if you're coming in because you have budgeting issues, is that person going to sit down and work with you through the budgeting issues?
• 13:22
  Ryan Derousseau: If you're coming in with a lot of assets and you need a very large plan.
• 13:28
  Ryan Derousseau: Does that person have the ability and understanding of that to manage that?
• 13:34
  Ryan Derousseau: So it's really sort of targeted.
• 13:35
  Ryan Derousseau: At that point you really need to understand what you want to get from financial planning and then ask specific questions to that to make sure that they are actually there to help.
• 13:45
  Ryan Derousseau: Basically, they're there for it, whatever that sort of concern is.
• 13:50
  Erin Gray: Yeah, so when it's fee only, from my understanding it's a flat fee, right, probably for like an annual advice, I guess, for lack of a better word right?
• 14:01
  Erin Gray: And then if someone has assets and they want to invest, do you make a plan to be like, okay, this is my suggestions for you, and then they go and self-invest, or how does that work?
• 14:13
  Ryan Derousseau: So I work with a lot of people who do that, where I'm teaching them how to invest, how to self-invest Within the fee-only model.
• 14:22
  Ryan Derousseau: We can also do that AUM idea.
• 14:26
  Ryan Derousseau: We can invest for you, and there's reasons why.
• 14:31
  Ryan Derousseau: If you're older, you are facing aging risk and that can come with a lot of concern, fear and the value of having a trusted advisor to manage your investments in such a case that that's worthwhile.
• 14:48
  Ryan Derousseau: Uh, my, my, um, my parents-in-law, father-in-law, uh, works with an advisor in that realm because he has that concern and his wife has dementia, and so, like we need to like be able to manage that correctly and I don't want to do it for him, um, and then, um, the other reason is you just simply don't want to do it for him.
• 15:05
  Ryan Derousseau: And then the other reason is you just simply don't want to learn investing.
• 15:09
  Ryan Derousseau: Like that is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and but when doing that, you should make sure to get the other aspects of financial planning, because investments is just a one small part of that entire financial plan design and experience.
• 15:24
  Erin Gray: Yeah, ryan said AUM.
• 15:27
  Erin Gray: So just for those of you that may not know, because we talk the language right, it's like assets under management is what he's talking about and you know I think that you said something about.
• 15:36
  Erin Gray: You know, if you don't care about investments and this is what I have noticed with entrepreneurs too I mean, it's everyone right, it's like the.
• 15:43
  Erin Gray: There's everyone right, it's it's like the, there's the.
• 15:47
  Erin Gray: I don't care about investments.
• 15:49
  Erin Gray: Like it doesn't, like I don't like wake up thinking about it.
• 15:53
  Erin Gray: And then there's like I don't even want to be in any part of it.
• 15:56
  Erin Gray: And I think that there can be a very fine line of like, of abdication of responsibility, of like I don't care about my investments, I don't want to know, and we almost sometimes I noticed this and tell me, if you see this, it's like we put all of that responsibility on our advisor, versus, okay, I this isn't my most favorite thing, but I do want to know how is my money invested and how does it work.
• 16:20
  Erin Gray: And you know, really, really taking back that, that ownership and that responsibility, and like working side by side with your advisor, versus like, oh, my advisor does that and I don't know what's invested in it.
• 16:31
  Erin Gray: He just does whatever, and he calls me and you know yeah, that's the way it works, you know.
• 16:36
  Ryan Derousseau: Yeah, there's a term I like to use every once in a while Like I'm here to educate you, I'm not here to be your sin eater.
• 16:43
  Ryan Derousseau: So, like many, like you know, hundreds and hundreds of years ago, when someone would pass away in order to like relieve the sins, like a wealthy person would essentially like put their sins into like a loaf of bread or whatever, and then someone would come in and they would pay this like poor person, frankly, to eat the bread and essentially eat the sin, and this was supposed to get them, you know, into above.
• 17:13
  Ryan Derousseau: And and it was just a way to pass off responsibility.
• 17:17
  Ryan Derousseau: Because what I'm going to do is present to you options and then, within those options, you have to decide what's best for you, because I'm not living your life.
• 17:32
  Ryan Derousseau: I always like to talk to people about the fact that, like I drive a minivan, I do not care about cars at all, like it does not impact me, like I just want to go from point A to point B, but I have clients that care a lot about cars.
• 17:46
  Ryan Derousseau: So, okay, that's, we need to know that and we need to create a budget around that.
• 17:52
  Ryan Derousseau: But I'm not here to then tell you you can't have a nice car, if that's really what you want to do.
• 17:57
  Ryan Derousseau: It's just I'm here to tell you what's the impact of that sort of decision.
• 18:02
  Ryan Derousseau: And then where else in your life can you sort of shift things around in order to afford said thing?
• 18:07
  Ryan Derousseau: And so the more like you take an embrace of that and at least understand, like the basic understanding of the concepts and the you know one-on-one type stuff, and have an advisor who will actually sit and explain this stuff to you, um, the better off you'll be.
• 18:26
  Erin Gray: Yeah, I think 100%, I'm like, absolutely yes, um, and and the and I think that this comes back to you know, because I'm always yes, I play in the 3d of like we, we want to know about our finances, but also what I call is the 5d right, Like our emotions, right With money and in our business.
• 18:46
  Erin Gray: And I think that this comes back to when we abdicate responsibility.
• 18:49
  Erin Gray: What I have noticed, it is we are trying to avoid a feeling because if it doesn't, if the investment doesn't go the way that we want it to, or we thought it should, right, or that, um, yeah, whatever it might be, it's like.
• 19:01
  Erin Gray: What feeling are we trying to avoid or not address by pushing off responsibility?
• 19:10
  Erin Gray: And so, if this is you, it's okay, right, like I've, I've done this before, right, and also that awareness and just noticing, like where do I do this in my business and in my just personal life, and what, what feelings am I trying to, you know, not feel by saying, oh, the CPA has got it, oh, you know, my financial advisor has it, that kind of stuff, the bookkeeper or whatever it might be, versus there's, there is knowledge and there is power in in knowledge, and also like, yeah, like taking care of, like your financial house Right Um, beforehand we talked about, like you know, how to build protection for yourself.
• 19:51
  Erin Gray: So, like as an entrepreneur, do you want to dive into a little bit about how you view business and personal and just kind of give us your thoughts and share a little bit about that?
• 20:00
  Ryan Derousseau: Yeah, so I um, you know, when we are like building like a self-employed business, in particular, often you know we get advice to sort of like, ok, you need the LLC, you need like QuickBooks or something to like track things, and oh, you got to separate the business and the personal or else and that's all well and good for like legal reasons and liability reasons and whatnot, but it doesn't change the fact that, like, if you need you know, the example I always use is if you need a new roof and you can't access that money, you don't have that money in your personal account and you cannot access that money through your business.
• 20:37
  Ryan Derousseau: You're gonna feel a lot worse about your business in that case.
• 20:40
  Ryan Derousseau: And vice versa.
• 20:42
  Ryan Derousseau: If you're eating ramen every night but you need to invest in the business to grow, where are you going to cut?
• 20:48
  Ryan Derousseau: You're eating ramen every night but you need to invest in the business to grow, where are you going to cut?
• 20:50
  Ryan Derousseau: You're going to feel a lot worse about the business because you can't.
• 20:51
  Ryan Derousseau: You're eating already, doing what you can do, and so we really need to create balance between those two things and create security between both as a whole unit of the life of, you know, life of Aaron or life of Ryan, like it's like the whole unit.
• 21:07
  Ryan Derousseau: And since I work with a lot of service-based self-employed owners, like private practice therapists, where their hour is spent for their hour of pay, they also create a system where they are basically creating income for themselves.
• 21:25
  Ryan Derousseau: But they haven't necessarily created a business for themselves and they haven't necessarily created a business for themselves, and so part of building security for them is figuring out what we're doing with their income.
• 21:35
  Ryan Derousseau: Are we investing in the markets?
• 21:38
  Ryan Derousseau: Are we investing in real estate, or are we investing in that business to turn it into a business or other businesses or whatever?
• 21:45
  Ryan Derousseau: But we need to figure out sort of a plan for that.
• 21:48
  Ryan Derousseau: So it's not this you know, 40 hours sitting in a seat listening to people, people's concerns, and we're, you know, reducing that able to go on vacations.
• 22:01
  Ryan Derousseau: Do live life the way we want to live as well.
• 22:04
  Erin Gray: Yeah, it's.
• 22:05
  Erin Gray: It's almost like, if you're not aware, you can just trade your job for your business and just be the the employee.
• 22:14
  Erin Gray: You know, I know we're employees of our businesses and also, like you're just you're working.
• 22:19
  Ryan Derousseau: You're working, just like you were you know, at nine to five, I would say within the service-based self-employment world.
• 22:24
  Ryan Derousseau: I would say within the service based self-employment world.
• 22:29
  Ryan Derousseau: I would say, like that is like a rite of passage of realizing what you've done, like, like you know, people start off thinking like this is how I want to live life and whatnot, how much they need or how much they want, or decisions on sort of building a business.
• 22:51
  Ryan Derousseau: Then they run into that concern of, well, this is just like an endless hamster wheel that I can't get off now because this is the way I make money and I have all these bills and I can't.
• 23:00
  Ryan Derousseau: I have to make the money and whatnot.
• 23:03
  Ryan Derousseau: So it becomes just like I call it, hamster wheel syndrome.
• 23:06
  Ryan Derousseau: But it's essentially what it is.
• 23:09
  Erin Gray: Yeah, I was gonna say and also, what about burnout?
• 23:12
  Erin Gray: Then, right, like you're literally just like how much of how much of it is actually sitting down and thinking about, like what kind of life do I want to create, how many hours do I actually want to work, how much money do I want to have?
• 23:25
  Erin Gray: And creating that versus it's it's almost like trading time for dollars.
• 23:31
  Erin Gray: Right, like that, that's what it, it's what it feels like, sounds like.
• 23:35
  Ryan Derousseau: In the private practice space there's, like you know, it varies year by year, but at any given time, about 50 to 60% of therapists um state that they are feeling the symptoms of burnout.
• 23:47
  Ryan Derousseau: Like it's the number.
• 23:49
  Ryan Derousseau: I mean, it's one of the top concerns for therapists.
• 23:51
  Ryan Derousseau: It's also why there's a large flow of therapists that quit because of burnout and it's absolutely the end result of what we're just kind of talking about is the fact that one they may not be doing certain things like raising fees or something like that, or taking on too low of fees and whatnot, but then also they're not thinking about where they need to go, want to go and should go, based off whatever their goals are.
• 24:25
  Ryan Derousseau: And without and without that, like without the end of mine, it's really hard to plan for, uh, like now, and what you want to do with the business and whatnot.
• 24:34
  Erin Gray: Yeah, I always said it.
• 24:36
  Erin Gray: Like I, it's like a checklist life, right, like that's what I used to live.
• 24:38
  Erin Gray: It's like just check in, check in the boxes, but like, how?
• 24:41
  Erin Gray: Like, is that the life that you actually want to live?
• 24:44
  Erin Gray: I'm curious if and I'm not familiar in terms of therapist-wise, but is there opportunities for them to scale?
• 24:53
  Ryan Derousseau: Yes.
• 24:53
  Ryan Derousseau: So there's a few different ways.
• 24:56
  Ryan Derousseau: One is building group practices, so actually hiring other therapists and creating what a traditional therapy practice might look like.
• 25:06
  Ryan Derousseau: But you know, I also have folks who would never want to hire people, like they just have no interest in hiring people.
• 25:15
  Ryan Derousseau: So then we have to figure out outside of the business Okay, we're investing in like retirement and stuff like that.
• 25:22
  Ryan Derousseau: I call it like the best passive income stream you could possibly build.
• 25:26
  Ryan Derousseau: Is that because there's also tax benefits to it?
• 25:29
  Ryan Derousseau: But then also, what else can they do?
• 25:34
  Ryan Derousseau: Do they embrace risk?
• 25:38
  Ryan Derousseau: Is commercial real estate something that they want to do because they already have a space and now they can rent out other space?
• 25:44
  Ryan Derousseau: Or is there another way that they can use their experience and their expertise to build other lines of business, whether it's coaching or speaking or supervising or some other techniques?
• 26:00
  Ryan Derousseau: But there's, you know, like any profession, there's like a thousand and one ways to make money.
• 26:05
  Ryan Derousseau: It's just you kind of have to figure out sort of what is the best way for you, your personality and your expertise.
• 26:12
  Erin Gray: Yeah, how do you, how do you?
• 26:14
  Erin Gray: Here we go back to, like, how do you want to do it?
• 26:15
  Erin Gray: And I think this comes back to slowing down, right, like, do you notice with your clients, do you feel like a lot of them are in this like rushed place, like hurry up to get to either some number or some?
• 26:29
  Erin Gray: They may not be saying this, but like some feeling, like they think the thing is going to bring them, the feeling which I mean I'm like as therapists, they probably are pretty aware and also, you know it's like it happens, like to the best of us, right, like um and so like slowing down to actually ask yourself what do you want?
• 26:50
  Erin Gray: And I'm curious how many of them practice that, do you see?
• 26:55
  Ryan Derousseau: Yeah, and you know that's a person by person situation.
• 27:00
  Ryan Derousseau: I will say that, like the slowing down and thinking about what they want from at least from a financial standpoint, that is part of what I do.
• 27:10
  Ryan Derousseau: I'm giving them specific time every quarter.
• 27:13
  Ryan Derousseau: If we're doing like quarterly meetings where they actually have to think about this type of stuff, they're gonna be asked about this type of stuff and then I'm gonna give them action items to accomplish based on whatever they sort of decide to accomplish.
• 27:28
  Ryan Derousseau: Based on whatever they sort of decide and you know, I think everyone should have that in place Like, even if you're not working with an advisor, like, and you should have that time for yourself, but if you have a partner, also time with the partner to really think about, sort of like what, where are you seeing life going?
• 27:45
  Ryan Derousseau: And like, what do you, how do you want to get there and how quickly do you want to get there?
• 27:50
  Ryan Derousseau: Because, like I used to cover the fire movement, like financial independence, retire early movement, right, and I and some of that stuff is so good in terms of like financial tactics, like you're saving more than you're spending and you're increasing your savings rate, but then the more you would talk to folks.
• 28:11
  Ryan Derousseau: They would get into competitions about how quickly they're retiring or whatever, or how frugal they're being in their retirement.
• 28:20
  Ryan Derousseau: That's not the goal, that is not what we're doing personal finance for.
• 28:25
  Ryan Derousseau: And so we, you know there's we have to be careful, of sort of like understanding the tactics and understanding why we're doing it and then figuring out that timeframe that works for us to do it.
• 28:37
  Ryan Derousseau: And then, in terms of, like, their personal, like ability to slow down, some are really really good at it.
• 28:44
  Ryan Derousseau: And then you know they're just people, just like us, like they're trained to think about this stuff.
• 28:49
  Ryan Derousseau: But some of them have taken on that personal growth very aggressively.
• 28:55
  Ryan Derousseau: And then some you know less so and probably will eventually do so.
• 28:59
  Ryan Derousseau: It's just, you know, maybe they're not old enough yet or maybe they haven't had time to or whatever, so they just haven't done it, but they'll get there eventually.
• 29:09
  Erin Gray: Yeah, I always say you know, like how do you feel in your body, which takes slowing down, which takes awareness, but like when you talk about the fire movement, like I wouldn't say that I was like uh uh, when I say not on board, like I for sure, like I was trying to retire at a certain age, and here we go back to like how much are we not enjoying the present to to get to that future?
• 29:33
  Erin Gray: You know, and and it feels in my body, it felt terrible.
• 29:38
  Erin Gray: It felt like I'm like almost killing myself to get to a place to be able to finally enjoy myself.
• 29:44
  Erin Gray: Versus like okay, how can we do both Right, like how can we enjoy our life now?
• 29:48
  Erin Gray: How can we work and grow our business and also be planning for some time in the future?
• 29:54
  Erin Gray: But you know, the like you said, like with the with it it's like the, we can sometimes almost take anything and just turn it into like not fun, rushed, you know, I don't want to say competition but like, yeah, like how fast can we get there?
• 30:11
  Erin Gray: And it's like here we go back to like why are we trying to rush the process?
• 30:15
  Erin Gray: What are we thinking that we're going to get?
• 30:17
  Erin Gray: You know, feeling wise from it, versus slowing down and asking ourselves, like how do I want to build my business, how do I want to grow, how do I want to have, you know, my life, personal life outside of my business.
• 30:29
  Erin Gray: Like what is the point?
• 30:30
  Erin Gray: I mean, I talked to sometimes some owners and they're like they hate their business.
• 30:33
  Erin Gray: It's like, well, the whole point of having a bit right Like it's to be, it's to be having fun right, like yes, there's parts of our business that we may not.
• 30:40
  Erin Gray: But you know what I mean?
• 30:40
  Erin Gray: It's like why aren ourselves now, while we're growing and doing, versus almost killing ourselves to get to where we think we want to go?
• 30:49
  Erin Gray: You know?
• 30:50
  Ryan Derousseau: Oh yeah, like I, um, when I was a self-employed journalist, like I uh really struggled with the day to day and I was taking on some of the stuff that fire movement was was talking about, because I really just wanted an escape.
• 31:04
  Ryan Derousseau: And it wasn't until I found what I do now, where I truly love what I do and the idea of, like retiring or anything like that it has I have no interest in it right now.
• 31:18
  Ryan Derousseau: And that's been a big shift because I really realized, like, what I actually wanted to do.
• 31:24
  Ryan Derousseau: And you know, like back to like the reason, part of the reason I work with therapists is because I went through a long thing through therapy and it's helped me today.
• 31:33
  Ryan Derousseau: And a big part of that was figuring out what I wanted to actually do with my life.
• 31:36
  Ryan Derousseau: And so now that I'm actually doing that, you know it's a lot better.
• 31:40
  Ryan Derousseau: But that gets to the sort of the emotional side of it.
• 31:42
  Ryan Derousseau: And, like you know, my goal isn't to retire in 10 years.
• 31:46
  Ryan Derousseau: My goal is to help, like my goal is literally to help a million people embrace and thrive in self employment.
• 31:54
  Ryan Derousseau: That's what I want to achieve and it has nothing to do with finances.
• 31:58
  Ryan Derousseau: It has nothing to do with, like retirement.
• 32:02
  Ryan Derousseau: I need my finances in order to help achieve that, but I don't need to make a billion dollars to help achieve that, yeah.
• 32:10
  Erin Gray: I wrote down like fantasize, right, like that's exactly what I did, right.
• 32:15
  Erin Gray: When I get there, then I'll be able to finally, I mean, I was looking for yeah, I was looking for freedom and I was looking for joy, like those were probably the two things like, oh well, when we get to retire, then we get to, you know, like, yeah, and I think slowing down and it's like, uh, so many of us, I think, just like we can, we come here to planet earth to evolve and to grow, and the human spirit likes to create, it likes to contribute, it likes to do those things, and so why don't we just, instead of trying to work, to save and retire, to go do the thing we love?
• 32:52
  Erin Gray: Like why don't we just do the thing that we love and figure out how to make money doing it?
• 32:56
  Ryan Derousseau: you know, and Sorry, no, it's just it's like bad gas words.
• 33:03
  Erin Gray: You know what we've been taught.
• 33:04
  Ryan Derousseau: And I think that comes, go ahead I was going to say.
• 33:07
  Ryan Derousseau: I talked to someone just yesterday, a client of mine, and they kind of did kind of what you described.
• 33:14
  Ryan Derousseau: I mean, they are younger, pretty young.
• 33:17
  Ryan Derousseau: They've done an incredible job of saving, not spending and not getting into debt.
• 33:22
  Ryan Derousseau: And they, they are like at, you know, in the mid thirties.
• 33:25
  Ryan Derousseau: They are like you know, in the mid 30s.
• 33:26
  Ryan Derousseau: They're gonna be good, like, yeah, they're pretty good.
• 33:29
  Ryan Derousseau: And yet when I asked him, or the client, I was like, hey, what I'm seeing here is a lot of needs covered, but what do you want, like what you want out of this money?
• 33:48
  Ryan Derousseau: And it's not even something that he really had ever contemplated.
• 33:50
  Ryan Derousseau: And I flat out told him I was like, listen, you're doing a very good job here, but we need to figure out what you want out of this.
• 33:59
  Ryan Derousseau: Because this is not like we're not here just to see this number rise as big as possible.
• 34:02
  Ryan Derousseau: Or on my financial planning software, where it shows probability of success, it says 99%.
• 34:09
  Ryan Derousseau: We're not here just to get to 100% probability of success.
• 34:12
  Ryan Derousseau: Instead, we're trying to get the stuff that we want out of life through this.
• 34:17
  Ryan Derousseau: And so what is that?
• 34:18
  Ryan Derousseau: And so I challenged him to think about that, because it's the counter to the other side of the coin, where someone's a spendthrift and going off and and you know, deep debt and whatnot, whereas this person has not done that but hasn't thought about the fun stuff in life.
• 34:37
  Ryan Derousseau: Yeah, used to think about that.
• 34:39
  Erin Gray: Yeah, that was, that was, for sure, my work and I, you know, once I started kind of getting into coaching and and learning about the brain and the body and all of that like I was thinking about, like neural pathways, you know, like when we have been taught and brought up and and I think that this goes back to like depending, right, depending on what your, your upbringing was like, and also like we're only I don't know how old you are, ryan, but I'm 43.
• 35:04
  Erin Gray: And like I'm one, my dad was raised by some.
• 35:08
  Erin Gray: My grandpa was in the great depression, right, like, so that generational trauma that I don't think necessarily we and I think COVID is probably something else that you know might circle back around, but like, if we aren't aware of, like, what our money stories are and what our money beliefs are.
• 35:24
  Erin Gray: Thinking about your client cause, he sounds similar to me.
• 35:26
  Erin Gray: It's like sometimes we are trying to have money provide that safety for us, you know, and what I had to teach myself was like safety is not an outside thing, right, like it's an inside job, like there will never be an amount of money that I will ever have or create that will make me feel safe inside.
• 35:46
  Erin Gray: And here we go back to feelings and like you know what are we willing to feel Right, which?
• 35:51
  Erin Gray: Like, okay, I blow all my money, or I use all my money, or however it works Right.
• 35:55
  Erin Gray: Like you have no money.
• 35:56
  Erin Gray: It's like, what are you really afraid of?
• 35:59
  Erin Gray: Like it was for me.
• 36:00
  Erin Gray: It was like embarrassment or disappointment, and it was like sitting with those feelings because I was using money as a way to escape, to not have to feel those those feelings.
• 36:10
  Erin Gray: Um, you said something about.
• 36:12
  Erin Gray: Let me think about what you said.
• 36:13
  Erin Gray: Um, oh, so, like going back to neural pathways of like we've been taught to save, save, save, save, save.
• 36:20
  Erin Gray: So at what point do we get to like we don't just flip the switch and then now we're spending money?
• 36:25
  Erin Gray: You know, and I think that for a lot of people that are in that like saving and investing mentality, like it, it there is some delicate balance of like teaching ourselves, our bodies, that it's okay to spend money and have and have some fun now one of the more uh, traumatic experiences in someone's life is when they decide to retire.
• 36:51
  Ryan Derousseau: And all that, that portfolio that they've been building their entire life, is now their income and they have to go from saving, saving, saving to eventually spending.
• 37:02
  Ryan Derousseau: And it's part of the reason why that age group, the group that's about to retire, is so commonly coming to financial advisors, because, one, they want assurance that they're okay, but what the financial advisors have to do is then teach them how to spend, because it's uh, it's, it's something that is very difficult for them to sort of what you described, to sort of make that switch in their brain.
• 37:30
  Ryan Derousseau: Um, I, I have a client who is extremely wealthy, has exorbitant amounts of wealth, and this person needs to buy a house, and we're determining whether the person should get a mortgage or just paying cash.
• 37:46
  Ryan Derousseau: And I have told this person over and over and over again you have way too much cash, Just pay the thing in cash and be done with it.
• 37:55
  Ryan Derousseau: But it's just, it never, uh, feels comfortable for the person, so I don't know which way they're going to go with it.
• 38:02
  Ryan Derousseau: Uh, but that's a, that's a feeling thing.
• 38:04
  Ryan Derousseau: That's not like a numbers thing.
• 38:05
  Ryan Derousseau: I've shown the numbers, you know that is like a complete feeling thing.
• 38:09
  Ryan Derousseau: Um, and you know we, like someone like me, I can't ignore the feelings, but I'm also not a therapist myself, and so I can only talk to them about what they're thinking and show them the impact of said thoughts.
• 38:24
  Ryan Derousseau: Um, you know either one, but I can't do the emotional work for them, and you know I will.
• 38:32
  Ryan Derousseau: I have guided people to therapy in certain situations, um, because they need that sort of outlet, particularly when they're having trouble like, um, they spend too much and they cannot get into that uh realm.
• 38:45
  Ryan Derousseau: But the same, it's the same.
• 38:47
  Ryan Derousseau: Um, it's just the opposite side of the coin again.
• 38:50
  Ryan Derousseau: Uh, with that and it's, it's still an emotional sort of journey that someone needs to take.
• 38:55
  Erin Gray: Yeah, totally Um, which comes.
• 38:58
  Erin Gray: So I want to talk about like optimizing, like what are your thoughts on you know, like how we've been.
• 39:03
  Erin Gray: I think a lot of us have been taught like we always have to be optimizing our money and we have to make sure that it's growing and we have to make sure it's like all of the things, like what are your?
• 39:22
  Ryan Derousseau: what's kind of your take on that and like what do you, you know, visit with your clients about that?
• 39:25
  Ryan Derousseau: In that regard?
• 39:25
  Ryan Derousseau: Yeah, and there's a lot of my thoughts on that, because you know you'll and you know I blame stuff like CBS or CNBC and stuff like that where they're constantly hearing investing is like a win loss game and like what does this mean, or what does that mean for their sort of long term plans?
• 39:38
  Ryan Derousseau: And really most of that stuff should have no impact on you whatsoever.
• 39:43
  Ryan Derousseau: And so you'll see someone with you know a couple million to their name, putting like like dreading, putting, say, $10,000 into a treasury bond because they heard that like the rates are really high and should they or shouldn't they?
• 40:02
  Ryan Derousseau: And really like sweating over this, and meanwhile it's like less than point zero, 1% of their net worth and will have no impact whatsoever.
• 40:13
  Ryan Derousseau: And is that really worth your time?
• 40:15
  Ryan Derousseau: Like, is that really how you want to spend your time right now?
• 40:19
  Ryan Derousseau: Some people think they do, but in reality it's kind of how we're taught finances, because we're not really taught the tactics, we're only taught that it's kind of a win-loss game and that's because we're only taught through what we see in like popular culture and like CNBC and places and like Wall Street Journal and stuff like that, and so it becomes this win-loss game and if I'm not doing something I'm losing in some way, when in fact, so much of what we're doing, it we're not like trying to optimize so you can have the highest possible penny at the end of your life.
• 41:00
  Ryan Derousseau: Instead, we want to know, like, are it goes back to, what are your goals and are you reaching them?
• 41:06
  Ryan Derousseau: Because, like, that's my concern, my concern isn't um so much.
• 41:11
  Ryan Derousseau: Like you know, obviously, if someone comes to me with a question about a treasury investment, I'm gonna explain to them the value of it and the problem of it.
• 41:19
  Ryan Derousseau: But, like when I'm creating a financial plan for someone, I'm not looking at saying, well, this is the, the investment design that is going to be the ultimate design for you.
• 41:32
  Ryan Derousseau: Instead, we're trying to figure out how much risk you need to take on to achieve the goals that you have in your life.
• 41:40
  Erin Gray: Yeah, I always, I always go back to like energy and emotion, right, like you're talking about the one client that's like do I, do I pay cash or do I, you know, and we can, we can be in this.
• 41:51
  Erin Gray: Like there is no right or wrong, right, it's just like, how does it feel in your body?
• 41:55
  Erin Gray: What, what do you want to do?
• 41:58
  Erin Gray: And then moving forward and then having your own back right, like through the, through, the, through the process and I know that you're saying, you know I don't, I don't do the emotions, but like, that is what I think is that is the part that I think that you know, helping my clients and just like, yeah, spreading the word of like money is an emotional thing and we want to get it to a point of like neutrality, right, like, which takes time and all of that, but like it's, it's so much of how much energy are we spending with this decision versus.
• 42:28
  Erin Gray: It's okay, you know, you get to redecide.
• 42:31
  Erin Gray: It's okay to make, you know, like I think a lot of us, too, grew up like it's not okay to make mistakes or you know, you know you make mistakes.
• 42:38
  Erin Gray: It costs money.
• 42:39
  Erin Gray: Like there's so many stories and underlying beliefs that we have around that that like has us in this like seesaw effect, versus supporting ourselves, asking ourselves, like, what do we want?
• 42:50
  Erin Gray: And making decisions from that place, from a versus a.
• 42:53
  Ryan Derousseau: There's a right, like you're saying, you know, like what the culture is like, there's a right or a wrong or a win and a lose, and very black and white mentality versus like it's both, and you know it kind of speaks to perfectionism, which also the space Um, and yeah, when I say I don't like deal with the emotions, like I'm there for the emotional sort of discussions, I just can't work that, work through those emotions with the person because I don't have the skillset to do so.
• 43:22
  Ryan Derousseau: But, um, yeah, I mean they, uh that that perfectionism it's.
• 43:28
  Ryan Derousseau: It's really hard to break through and it's not something I think that um one comes naturally to most people, but also one that you're necessarily, just because you're told that that's happening, um, that you're necessarily going to see it's more of of a slow recognition that happens over time.
• 43:47
  Ryan Derousseau: Um, eventually, like maybe it's that burnout aspect is like you've eventually burn out and then you're sort of like, okay, what's actually important here?
• 43:54
  Ryan Derousseau: But the less you can avoid that the better, because no one wants to burn out.
• 43:59
  Erin Gray: So yeah, I think it's like anything right.
• 44:01
  Erin Gray: It's like when you know the student is ready, the teacher will appear, and sometimes we aren't ready for the message, or you know the lesson, and that's okay, right, like and and.
• 44:11
  Erin Gray: But I agree with you, like it does take time.
• 44:13
  Erin Gray: It isn't like this light bulb moment and then we just flip a switch, right.
• 44:17
  Erin Gray: So is there anything else that we haven't discussed or that I haven't thought about to ask you that?
• 44:21
  Erin Gray: You see, or yeah, anything else you want to share?
• 44:25
  Ryan Derousseau: I mean, you know, I think we've had like a great discussion obviously between, like the emotions and whatnot.
• 44:29
  Ryan Derousseau: I would say that, just like in general, we like going back to that personal, really focus on where you are now in your life and the things that you need to get out of out of life to make you more happy, content, whatever.
• 44:45
  Ryan Derousseau: And if you start there, then you'll know where to find that next like piece of advice or next step or whatnot, because, um, you know, you know this like personal finance is not solved in a day.
• 44:58
  Ryan Derousseau: It's like it's continuously small steps done continuously and, um, and that's really what it is and over a lifetime, that's how you build wealth.
• 45:08
  Ryan Derousseau: And so just really focus on that next step.
• 45:11
  Erin Gray: I love that because I always say like we, we here, we go back to fantasizing.
• 45:15
  Erin Gray: You know, when we were talking about the fire movement and things like that, like, I always say like, celebrate the 1%, right, like 1% ultimately gets you to where you want to go.
• 45:22
  Erin Gray: It's not sexy, it's not what everybody talks about, you know, in social media or on the news or whatever, right, but like, how do like millionaire next door, like those books, like that, like how do people build wealth?
• 45:32
  Erin Gray: How do people build a business?
• 45:33
  Erin Gray: One single step at a time, right, and the.
• 45:36
  Erin Gray: The honest answer is like you don't know step 10, right, you just know next step.
• 45:42
  Erin Gray: That's really what we know, right, and and and celebrating ourselves and getting in the habit of celebrating.
• 45:47
  Erin Gray: I don't think a lot of us.
• 45:48
  Erin Gray: I'd be curious if your clients are probably following this.
• 45:52
  Erin Gray: This, uh, part two of like we don't celebrate ourselves enough.
• 45:56
  Erin Gray: Like we withhold that the.
• 45:59
  Erin Gray: Um, yeah, the celebration, the add a girls at a boys for, like, when we get to that place and it feels so restrictive and it's like we have to earn that versus like, how are you better than you were yesterday?
• 46:12
  Erin Gray: How have you evolved from yesterday?
• 46:14
  Erin Gray: How have you?
• 46:14
  Erin Gray: You know, just really it, it.
• 46:17
  Erin Gray: It does take some effort to, to change, like to, to constantly be looking at like what have you done?
• 46:23
  Erin Gray: Versus how far you have to come, you know, or have to go, I should say.
• 46:26
  Erin Gray: But yeah, celebrating that 1% and like really of like where am I right now?
• 46:31
  Erin Gray: And like where am I going in and loving the process, you know.
• 46:35
  Ryan Derousseau: Absolutely Like uh.
• 46:36
  Ryan Derousseau: When my uh wife we were paying back her student loan debt like every uh, every 10,000, we would do something like it would be small, but like something to like celebrate just because like it was a lot and we weren't going to get there unless we celebrated along the way.
• 46:52
  Erin Gray: So yeah, I love that.
• 46:54
  Erin Gray: Do you have anything in terms of like, where can people find you?
• 46:57
  Erin Gray: Yeah, connect with you, learn more about you, all of that.
• 47:00
  Ryan Derousseau: Yeah, absolutely so.
• 47:02
  Ryan Derousseau: As you mentioned, I work for United Financial Planning Group.
• 47:04
  Ryan Derousseau: It's kind of the umbrella I work under, but I actually market through thinkingcapfinancialcom and I have an ebook there it's free.
• 47:13
  Ryan Derousseau: Dot com, and I have an e-book there.
• 47:17
  Ryan Derousseau: It's free.
• 47:18
  Ryan Derousseau: You can download it at thinkingcapfinancialcom.
• 47:19
  Ryan Derousseau: Slash income to wealth.
• 47:19
  Ryan Derousseau: I'll send it to you so you can put it in the show notes, and it's really about how you can take self-employment or private practice income, solo income, and turn that into long-term protection and wealth for yourself.
• 47:31
  Erin Gray: I love that.
• 47:32
  Erin Gray: Okay, we'll put all of Ryan's information in the show notes and I want to thank you again for sharing your time, your knowledge.
• 47:38
  Erin Gray: I appreciate it, right, yep?
• 47:39
  Erin Gray: Thanks again.
• 47:40
  Erin Gray: Thank you for tuning in today.
• 47:42
  Erin Gray: I appreciate you spending your time with me.
• 47:44
  Erin Gray: I created grow the CEO cohort for the entrepreneur that wants to be in a community with other heart-based entrepreneurs.
• 47:51
  Erin Gray: It's a place where we blend the 3d of money like understanding your bookkeeping and taxes and investing and how it applies to your business along with the 5D of money, like the energetics and the emotions that you feel with money.
• 48:05
  Erin Gray: To learn more about Grow the CEO cohort, you can head over to my website at generatealifewelllivedcom.
• 48:11
  Erin Gray: And, as always, from my soul to yours,