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I Left a High-Paying NYC Fashion Job to Teach Ballet in Cambodia—My Family Thought I Was Mad! · Babes, how did you get here

• 1:33
  Bye.
• 2:00
  I'm from California originally actually. Okay, cool. I'm like a west coast girl. Really? Grew up in San Jose, moved to Portland, Oregon, now was like in middle school. Right. Left and went to LA for the first two years of college. So I've never been to LA. I have lived in New York. Explain to me the different vibes, how life is. Very different. It's the opposite. LA is like... New York?
• 2:26
  were brutal. It's brutal. And everybody was just like, oh, but you're from Jamaica. I'm like, where is the sea breeze? There's none. There is no sea breeze. But why are we like right next to water? But no, there's none. Because the buildings, I don't know. It was too much. And you hold your bag on your arm looking cute. Babe, the sweater dripped from the handle of the bag. There is no cuteness. And then you get on the subway, and because it's plastic,
• 2:50
  Your thighs are sticking to the... No. I did one summer, never again. I'm not joking. But winter is worse. We're dropping new episodes every single week. So make sure you subscribe. You don't want to miss this, babes. And leave a comment and tell me, what do you want to hear out of my next conversation? Your support really helps this community grow. And if you know someone who's quietly been thinking, should they take that next big leap? Babes, send them the podcast.
• 3:18
  Ray is a multidisciplinary creative who started off in the New York fashion scene and now lives here in Phnom Penh as an educator among many other things. But fashion is only one side of her. She dances, she models and has her hands in many creative projects. But today I want to talk to her about her life here in Cambodia. After living here for some time, I know that she has stories to tell. But first I have to ask, babes, how did you get here?
• 3:45
  Well, that's quite the opening. Thank you for that. So I was living in New York before I came here. I was studying and was working in the fashion industry, but I was working at corporate fashion. What does that mean?
• 4:00
  That means cubicle. That means doing a lot of work over time, working overtime until like 8 p.m., coming home late. But it means just like you're a small cog in a big machine, right? So you're not making – you don't feel like you're making an impact. You don't feel like you're doing much. You're just kind of like –
• 4:18
  Doing what needs to be done for the company to make an income. And are you from New York? I'm from California originally, actually. Okay, cool. I'm like a West Coast girl. Really? Grew up in San Jose, moved to Portland, Oregon, now was like in middle school. Right. And left and went to LA for the first two years of college. So I've never been to LA. I have lived in New York. Explain to me the different vibes, how life is.
• 4:40
  Very different. It's the opposite. LA is like sunny and, you know, the people there are more, I don't know, everyone just wants everyone to be chill. Okay. You know, not very confrontational. LA is not my favorite place. Okay. I grew up in San Jose, so when I moved to LA, I thought it was going to be great for me, but it's not my vibe.
• 5:07
  But you feel chill? You feel non-confrontational? I am, because I'm a West Coast girl. Okay. Right? But New York was more my scene. Oh really? Like I love that there was such a strong culture. I love, I actually really love that people are more blunt. Because it's more respect, it's respectful. I'm so about that. So like New York and London feel quite similar to me. Yeah. In many ways, you know, even just train and metro, like all those things.
• 5:32
  And I will say, however, New York has the bluntness that aligns with the Jamaican in me. Whereas like in London, they'll beat around the bush, they'll never really tell you what they think. And in a work setting, they'll be like, oh, that was great, that was great. And you find out through the grapevine, it wasn't great, babes. Nobody was gonna tell you. Whereas a New Yorker would just be like, that isn't right, let's do it again. Yes, exactly. And I respond so much better to that direct vibe
• 5:57
  And something else about New York. I must say, I haven't been post-COVID. So I'm not sure if this has changed. But in my time, it was like, you got off the plane. And I just had this energy of, I can take over the world. I don't know how. I don't know what we're doing. But babes, yes, I can. Yes. London does not have that. Oh, okay. No, baby love. It don't even have a glimmer.
• 6:20
  Oh, no. No, babe. It's like, don't want to do too much because then you're trying to shine too bright. And that's not the London way. Oh, I see. And even like people and connecting. In New York, I found if you had a project, you had something you wanted to do, you shared that with somebody, they'd be like, oh, you need to speak to my friend so and so. Yeah. No, babe. That's the beautiful thing. Not London. No.
• 6:41
  No, I didn't think that at all. And then we have the added advantage of New York is only three and a half hours away from Jamaica versus nine and a half. Yeah. Yeah. And it's going to be a pocket of the world, I think. I will say those summers in New York.
• 6:54
  were brutal. It's brutal. Like, and everybody was just like, oh, but you're from Jamaica. I'm like, where is the sea breeze? There's none. There is no sea breeze. But why are we like right next to water? But no, there's not. Because the buildings, I don't know. It was too much. And you hold your bag on your arm looking cute. Babe, the sweater drip from the handle of the bag. There is no cuteness. And then you get on the subway, and because it's plastic,
• 7:17
  Your thighs are sticking to the... No. I did one summer, never again. I'm not joking. But winter is worse. Before we continue, make sure that you join our community by clicking the link below. You will get to choose thumbnails before the episodes go live, pick our next destinations, even recommend guests. I really cannot wait for you to help me shape where this podcast goes.
• 7:41
  Please, winter is worse because you can't be cute. Summer, you can be a little bit cute. Winter, you try to be cute, oh, I'm cute. And you step outside, brick. So you have to be fully covered. The first winter, I saw sunshine outside. And I thought that it was warm, right? Because as a Jamaican, we don't check temperature, right? So people often ask, oh, how hot is Jamaica? I say, hot.
• 8:04
  I don't know temperatures. I don't know degrees. It's just hot. And so I saw the sun. I'm getting ready to go to class. You know, casual, looking cute. I'm like, but hold on. The sun is not generating any heat. Like at all. It's lying to you. It's literally lying to you. But I prefer it though. I prefer sun to gray. Again, contrasting like London. I prefer it to be cold in the sunshine than cold in the gray. Exactly.
• 8:30
  And that's why the sunny New York winter days are, you got to appreciate those. It's going to be cold, but at least it's not raining. Yes. Hard. Yeah. Gray snow that ends up not being white after a little bit of time. It's, it's dreadful. And you're just like slushing through the, you know, like,
• 8:47
  the first settle it's like oh this is a pretty like pretty picture yeah it gets and also no one stops for the snow like you guys are working you're out there you're ready you know work still has to be attended to so it doesn't even get to stay white for very long it gets very black and very slushy very quickly that's the thing in new york i walked fast i a to b let me get there right
• 9:13
  Cambodia, I've learned to just chill and stroll. And I'm just more calm. So there is, like you said, you arrive in New York and you feel the energy. I felt the same thing when I arrived. I came out the airport. I'm like, I've made it. I'm here. And then you can just feel the buzzing. And it's so intoxicating, really. And then Cambodia has a different kind of buzz. But there is a buzz. But it's like a soft. Tell me about your first trip to Cambodia.
• 9:42
  So I actually came on here for like a month long holiday before I moved. OK, because I so I was in school for like eight years on and off because I was working in the industry and studying. And I'm like, I need a break. I'm tired. Took a break off my work for a month, graduated, came to Cambodia for a month.
• 10:01
  Why did you choose Cambodia? Okay, here's the thing. I was like, my sister, she solo travels. I'm like, I want to do that. Like, I can do that. And so I found on Google, just like, where is a good place for female solo travelers to go? Cool. Found a random website. Cambodia was like number two or three on the list. I'm like, Cambodia? Cambodia? Okay, gorgeous Angkor Wat. Gorgeous, gorgeous, like Asia. I've never been to Asia. Yeah.
• 10:29
  Love it. Let's go. Let's go. And I was deciding between Turkey and Cambodia. Oh, really? Because I was working. I had an intern friend from my previous job who's from Turkey. She was gassing. She was like lighting it up. She's like, oh, you would love it. You can be with my family. I'm like, maybe Turkey's my move. Yeah.
• 10:46
  So I ended up in Cambodia and I'm so thankful I did. Do you remember getting off the plane in Cambodia? Yeah, I do. Tell me. Heat. Humidity. What time of the year are we in? This was May. Okay. This was May. And like, yeah, end of May, early June. So it was just transferring to rainy season. Sure. So it was the end of hot season transition to rainy season. So it was humid. Yes. And hot. Okay.
• 11:14
  But I was like, okay, I'm here. You could feel the energy is different. I am in Asia, I didn't know anything. I was just like, okay, where do I go? Let me get this SIM card. I was, I don't know. Is this your first major trip by yourself? No, I studied abroad in Italy for nine months.
• 11:31
  Cool. So it's my second abroad trip. Right. And yeah, so I felt okay, like navigating the space by myself. Yes. I had everything planned. I had my hostel and everything ready. And were you staying in Phnom Penh for that entire month? Not for the entire month. I wanted to stay here for like three days, four days, and then travel on. Because they always say, do a weekend in Phnom Penh. You don't really need to...
• 11:54
  And I got here and I'm like, what are you talking about? Phnom Penh is it. It is it. So I stayed a little bit longer. Right. And because I, the thing is, I had, you know, they have tuk-tuk. Back then, they had the big tuk-tuks. Okay. The big ones. And you hire a bong and then they take you everywhere. Right. And you just have to haggle. There is no app. Okay. We have apps now. You just order it. I'm all about apps. I love it. Yeah.
• 12:18
  But for this one, you get a tuk-tuk driver, and he just takes you everywhere. And so there was one outside my hostel. I'm like, oh, hail one down. And I'm like, okay, how much for one day? Right. And he was like, yeah, $17. I'm like, oh, $70 or $17? I'm like, okay, okay. And back then, I would not speak up for myself very much. I was a bit quiet. I was like, okay, I'll figure it out. I'll just figure it out later. He takes me around. We went to, like, the wildlife...
• 12:46
  Sanctuary was a wonderful, beautiful day. He just taught me to get, like, the fried crickets. Okay, I haven't had those yet. How do we feel about them? I actually like them. I was like, I'm a vegetarian. Do insects count? That's what I was, in my head, I was like, uh...
• 13:03
  Should I? Whatever's an insect. It's not really meat meat. It's not meat meat, I guess. I don't know. But I was like, I'm in Cambodia. I'm not going to be like, I can't eat that. I'm thinking it's like nuts having some salty nuts. It's like nuts. It's like chips. It's good with beer. So afternoon, we get a Cambodian beer or something and some crickets. And I'm just like... Oh, wait, wait, wait. I was like, wait. I'm like, wait.
• 13:31
  This is pretty good. This is a nice little snack. It was good. I enjoyed it. Not the thick ones. It's a bit juicy. Keeping it crunchy, babe. Yeah, I like it crunchy. We don't want too much juice. I don't want the juice. I want the crunch. So, yeah, but he came back and brought me back. And I was like, just one more time. Is it 17 or 7D? Because I'm from New York. 7D is still a steal. Like, if I had a whole man driving me all day...
• 13:59
  Taking me to get some crickets. 70's like that's a good price. But I'm like is it 17? And he said it again, I still didn't understand. So I go to the ATM, here's $70. He's like, oh! And right then I was like, okay, I messed up.
• 14:16
  I messed up. But did I? Because that man treated me for the whole, he was like, where do I pick you up tomorrow? Pay what you want, da da da da da. He took me to meet his family back into Cal. Oh wow. And they were having a party. I met his daughters, we dressed up. We got, I put lipstick on their face. We went to the party and I'm just having the best time at like a Cambodian block party. You're family now, babes. I'm family.
• 14:42
  I was like, I love it here. Like, this is, there's just such a spirit here that I was like, this is incredible. Like, I'm so happy that I just, you know, befriended this tuk-tuk driver. And then one of my, the girls that was staying with me at the hostel, she was like, oh, I have this friend here. There's a thing called Nerd Night. It's like, you know. I've heard about Nerd Night. It's iconic. Yeah. And this was, again, nine years ago. Okay. It's still going, right? Right. I'm like, yeah, let's go on. I'm like, yeah, let's go on.
• 15:10
  I don't have anything to do, I'm just here. And then that's when I met the expats. I didn't met any foreigners at this point, you know? So I met some expats and locals. It was very mixed, it was very cool.
• 15:21
  And yeah, Nerd Night is just for you. Someone goes up and they do like a TED Talk, basically. They present. And I'm like, this is so cool. And then there were some like creative types. And I'm like, I'm a creative type. Let me go say hi. We're chatting. I'm like, what is it like to live here? What's the rent like? I'm trying to get all the team. Give me all of it. I need to understand. Can I move here? So at that point, you are thinking, could I move here? At this point, there is a little...
• 15:43
  Something something. Maybe. Because I work in fashion, right? I don't see, I don't know if there's fashion here. I wouldn't have thought, that was like my thing, right? I wouldn't, and it's not to disrespect Cambodia, but when you think of fashion, you do think whether good for bad, you do think New York, you do think London, you do think Paris. I don't think Phnom Penh. No. So I'm interested, how does that play out first in your mind when you are having this consideration?
• 16:10
  The thing is, I kind of try to move about my life based off of my intuition. If my gut is telling me something, I listen to it. And the thing is, I know there's like some companies here. I had seen some sustainable brands. Okay. Like a few, like literally maybe two or three.
• 16:29
  I had seen because I did a little research. Yeah. And I knew that the creative scene was growing because those creative people I was talking to at Nerd Night, they were telling me about it. Okay. They were, I believe they were like hairdressers and so they were saying, yeah, we do hair for like some fashion shows. And I was like, okay. Do they have fashion shows regularly here? Yes, they do. Okay. Oh, so many. Really? So many. Okay. And much more now than before. Okay. Like it's really booming.
• 16:57
  And when we say you're trying to find your space in a fashion industry, in what capacity? So I'm a technical designer. I am. So that's basically I'm in the product development. Right. So the designer designs. I'm the one that makes it a reality.
• 17:14
  And so it's a much, it's a very technical, yeah, it's a technical, we're basically the engineers of the industry. Sure. So for a new, growing, emerging market, there's not as much of a need for my specialty. Right.
• 17:30
  Because it's very, you know, you got to do what you got to do. You can't hire someone to be a technical designer. So I wasn't sure if I had, if I was just a little too qualified or if someone was going to be able to hire me at a rate that I can actually live here and support myself. Yes. So I was a big if. Yeah. I wasn't sure. But I was very.
• 17:51
  Very confident. I was very confident for some reason without a job lined up. I went back to New York and I was like, oh, I don't like the vibe here anymore. OK. I love New York, but it was like. I was already called to Cambodia like I'm here now, like and. In your mind, what are you comparing and contrasting? OK, so in New York, everyone is everything.
• 18:15
  There's so many designers, there's already established market, everything is there. Like you wanna go do something, there's a party there. There's a food restaurant there. Everything is there and that's the beautiful thing about it. And in Phnom Penh, everything is growing, it's new. There's like a newness here and a challenge
• 18:32
  And I don't know, I like to be challenged. I like to, I don't know, I don't like to be too comfortable. Because I like growth. I like to make sure I'm growing, feel like I'm growing. Were you feeling stagnant in New York at the time? I was working corporate fashion, so I would say yeah. Okay. When I was like 10, 12 years old,
• 18:49
  I made a promise to myself I'd never work corporate. Really? Yeah. Why? Just because you're creative and that doesn't align? I mean, at that time, I don't know if I even identified as a creative. But I, you know, take your daughter to work day that we have in the U.S. Or take your child to work day now. My parents worked at Hewlett Packard. Okay. And so we would go take your daughter to work day. And it was like...
• 19:11
  Corporate. Tech. Tech. And I'm just looking at these. So I'm just looking at these people in their cubicles. Right. And I'm walking through as a little kid. I'm just like, mm.
• 19:21
  This doesn't feel right. This is not. This is not my vibe. I can't. And I've been drawing for my Barbies, designing for my Barbies, and myself, and styling. And I was a dancer. I was very active and creative. I will never sit in a cubicle. Right. And here I am. In a cubicle. In a cubicle. You know? Yeah. I mean, every day in fashion is different, but you're essentially kind of in a routine. To make it function, you have to get to a point where you have a routine. There's a system. There's a system.
• 19:52
  And I was like, oh, what am I doing? Yes, I'm making a good salary straight out of university. Yes, I'm in New York, the place I wanted to be. Yes, I have great friends. I have everything that I could think of that I could want. On paper. On paper. But I was telling my friends, I just don't think corporate's for me. I think I want to work with emerging designers. I think I want to work with small, intentional, sustainable brands. I think that's where I would feel more valuable and useful.
• 20:18
  Could you have done that in New York, but then it would have come at the cost in terms of cost of living, starting out with something small and basically making sacrifices that you don't know if something small is going to make it? Was that on your mind? That was a huge part of it, yeah. And I think if I hadn't moved to Cambodia, I would have maybe pursued that. I'd like to think I would have pursued that and tried. Yes. But I don't know. At that time, I was comfortable making a comfortable salary.
• 20:43
  So you tell your parents and your family that, I've been to Cambodia for a month. I know it's supposed to be a break. Now I'm going to go back. I remember calling. I remember the call with my mom. Oh, really? Where did you call from? You're still in New York now? I'm back in New York. Okay, yeah. I think I thought it out for maybe a couple weeks because I wasn't about to just like, Mom, I'm moving to Cambodia. Right.
• 21:02
  So I thought about it. I sat with it. And it was still in my heart. You know? And my parents are the most supportive people ever. Like, they're very supportive. And they just let me do my thing. And, you know, and I told her. And she was like, oh. Yeah.
• 21:21
  okay, I support you. I love the high pitch because the high pitch is always real, right? And it's also the thing that people don't realize. And then you call them, oh, ton it. And all of a sudden the voice changes. No, I wasn't saying it like that. But babes, you were. But I think, you know, I could hear that she is, being the mom she always was, like super supportive, lets me follow my dreams. You know, they came from...
• 21:45
  not much and worked through education, through being very intelligent, worked all the way up from, you know, getting signed, like not signed, I'm like signed at a record deal. Wrong industry base. But getting hired at Hewlett Packard, like right after college, after university and worked there for, until they were much older. Like that's like, you know, the American, the American dream. I'm like, I want to be an artist. I want to be a designer, you know, they're like, okay.
• 22:14
  We support you. And I'm just so thankful for them. So they were supportive, but they were just hesitant. Make sure you check everything. Make sure they are very caring. You said you had a sister. Is she older or younger? She's one year younger. Do you have any other siblings? I have an older brother. Okay. Okay.
• 22:30
  One year older. Right. And then a younger brother who's like seven years younger. Okay. So you're second in line and you're telling your parents I'm leaving. I'm going. I am not traveling. I'm leaving the country and I'm going to Cambodia for I don't know how long. Like that's the conversation at that point. I don't know how long. I don't know how long. In my mind, I was like two to three years. That's okay. I could do two or three years. Okay. And we're like six, eight years later.
• 22:56
  Eight years. Eight years later. Eight years. Okay, when you come back to Cambodia, after deciding this is where I'm gonna live, is the energy different? Because being here for a month, for an adventure, for peace of mind, versus now we're doing big boy things, and adult life is happening, I imagine to have quite a different feeling. Oh yeah. Tell me. Yeah, that fantasy.
• 23:21
  That little cute holiday fantasy was gone. It was over. You took a man and his family. It was over. It was over because, you know, I had saved up some money. I'm like, I can live here for a while. The money was gone. It was like, oh, I need to get a new job. I don't think it's that cheap here. It was a little bit cheaper eight years ago, but it's not actually like...
• 23:44
  super cheap yeah you know Phnom Penh they said is the second most expensive city in Southeast Asia really I believe them I believe them because I think I had like Bali expenses in my mind or Bangkok I think of Bangkok as probably the biggest city right yeah in this region and so in my mind if you're the biggest city you must be more expensive should be and then I come here and I'm
• 24:14
  From New York to here, yes. But when you're making local, not local salary, but when you're making salary here, there's a foreigner salary and a local salary. That is a thing. But even the foreigner salary here, it's...
• 24:27
  It's cute. It's enough. But you're not balling. I'm American. I have student loan debt. Okay? I'm not keeping all the coins. I have to send some back home. So, yeah, it could have been better if I didn't have that debt. That's a whole other conversation. Sure. But, yeah, and, you know, I was humbled. I was like, I will find a job because I went to one of the best schools in the world. Literally. I was like, you know, my resume is...
• 24:56
  And I was like, uh-oh, there's no jobs. I had found this one brand who I ended up working for later. But I found one where I'm like, I'm going to work there. They're sustainable. It's owned by an American. I'm going to work there. Sent my little cute little resume. Nothing, nothing. I'm like, okay, I need to find a job.
• 25:18
  So then I'm also a dancer, right? So I applied to teach ballet. Okay. For the children. Amazing. I'm not a ballet dancer. I was a studio dancer, so I know ballet. Right. So I taught ballet on the weekends, and then I got a job teaching kindergarten. Okay. Teaching them English or teaching ballet? I was, like, so I taught...
• 25:37
  Kindergarten level at a school. And I was all the teachers. So I was in their homeroom, English, math, science. Oh wow. Did little dances with them. Everything. Like I was just, they have one teacher. And they have an English teacher that comes in. Had you had prior teaching experience?
• 25:52
  No. How was that? I had teaching experience in terms of like, I was like, I work with children, but I wasn't like a teacher. Sure. Right. So here, if you have a bachelor's degree and a little bit experience teaching, you can get a teaching job here. Okay. And it's pretty easy? Yeah, it's easy. Okay.
• 26:13
  But with that situation, it's difficult because I think it's a little easy sometimes for people who just fall into a country and just like, I don't know what to do. Teaching pays well, so let me just do it. But if you're a teacher, you got to have a heart for it. So this is one of my complaints about that. That it's too easy to get into. It's a bit easy to get into. I couldn't teach. It's really me because I'm...
• 26:39
  I did have some issues like getting the job because they have a certain expectation of what they want teachers to look like. What do you mean by that? So there is a school right down the street from me. I'm going to work there because that's easy.
• 26:53
  So I apply before the school year starts. Nothing. Okay. I had some other schools. I applied for a lot of schools. Nothing. And again, this was eight years ago. It's different now. But at the time, I got one other interview. Didn't work out. I'm like, you know what? Let me just try that other school down the street again. Because the school year already started. And I'm seeing they're still have that job opening. Oh, OK. Let me just check. Did you receive my? Sure. I'm like, OK, come for an interview. And so I interview. I get the job.
• 27:23
  Now, mind you, it's already been a month into school. They had their TA teaching, which is unacceptable for people paying a tuition. Of course. I come in, and I am a natural teacher. I'm a natural teacher, so I'm just having the best time with these kids. I love kindergarten age. Amazing. And then there was two students that were gifted, like smart. And one student that had special needs.
• 27:49
  I used to be, I used to work with special needs kids when I was 16. And I also, you know, was gifted. But I. Baby, you can be gifted. There's no shame in making honest claims. I'm intelligent. You're gifted. And I know what it's like to be in a classroom and you're bored because this is not it. You know, I had to have my mom once come in and teach advanced math to some of the students in my fourth grade class. Because it was like, I learned this in third grade, you know.
• 28:18
  So I'm like, I was, I knew how to handle those three students and I was doing my thing. And then like one week, the students, two of the students like left. I'm like, what happened? What happened to the sisters? And they were just saying like, oh, they were just upset.
• 28:32
  They weren't saying it's because of me. But, you know, you just know. I'm not trying to put my, like, trauma onto these people. But it's like, I can understand why they're upset. Like, they pay for school. They only have a TA teaching for a month. And then they come in and this black girl comes and teaches. And it's not their expectation of what quality is.
• 28:52
  school standards should be at that time. Yeah. Eight years ago, Cambodia, I'm just going to say now. It's funny because I had a conversation with a girl who's also a teacher here, a black girl, and she has similar stories that exist now. And it's not just Cambodia, to be clear, right? No, it's not. Of course not. I've had conversations with teachers in Thailand
• 29:12
  And there is the perception that if you are a white person, your English is somehow better, and you're considered more of a native speaker, even if you're not a native speaker, and it's not your first language. The impression is that you are a native speaker versus your black counterpart. And I'm not sure if that will change, to be honest, in my lifetime, like those types of things. But you know, that's deeply rooted in other things. It's a lot too. Yeah.
• 29:40
  But I think it's important to recognize that not everyone's journey, even on the expat level, because I think sometimes people think that expat immediately comes with badge of honor. It immediately comes with status. And I think it's important for people to realize that not expats, not all expats are viewed in the same way. It's true. And so for people considering whether they're moving or not, they may also want to consider where they're getting their information from.
• 30:05
  Exactly. So when I'm researching a place, do I, of course, speak with a wide, diverse group of people, but also make sure that amongst the people that you're speaking to for advice, you have people that are going to be able to share whatever you consider your journey to be so that you can see if that aligns. Because you could be hearing, because I hear a lot that it's easy to get a teaching job here, and that could give me the impression that, okay, cool, that's going to be what's easy for me too. And you don't want that expectation to be
• 30:33
  than culture shock being met. You know what I mean? So just from that perspective, I think it's interesting. It's totally, that's exactly what it is. And it's culture shock. How long were you teaching? Oh, one year.
• 30:45
  No, one year. No, that job I was telling you about, the fashion, they called me up, they called me up. Okay, thanks. That's not my calling to call, I almost left, because this is not what I came here to do. I didn't want to be a teacher here, even though I can, I'm doing well. I didn't want to be teaching kids seven days a week.
• 31:04
  Because remember, it's Monday through Friday, kindergarten. You're doing ballet on the weekend. Ballet all day, Saturday, Sunday, all day. Wow. I was tired. I was 26. So I had the energy, but I was tired. Yeah. And I was 26, so I was still going out on Fridays and Saturdays. We've got to make it work, Bess. And wake up and dance all day. And I was like, oh, I can't do this forever. Amazing. So the job that you had your eye on came through. Yeah. And then how did you feel?
• 31:30
  Like, okay, this is my opportunity. It starts now. Like this one year was to test my resilience, to test am I really meant to be here? Like, am I gonna stick it out or am I gonna run away? Were there any points during that year where you were like, okay, I've done my time, maybe it's time to leave? I think I really considered it very deeply once. Okay.
• 31:51
  Yes, I was like, oh, this is so hard. Maybe, maybe, maybe. But I can't because I have my pride. Right. And if I, I was telling everyone in your, yeah, I'm going to go to Cambodia.
• 32:02
  I'm going to go to Cambodia. And I'm kind of like, oh, my goodness, what a dream. You're just going to, like, yeah, I'm going to pack up everything. I sold everything. I'm like, I'm going to get my little suitcase, one suitcase. I'm going to live the life. And imagine one year later, like, oh, hey, girl. Can you imagine? My ego would not let me leave. And I'm so glad. Sometimes egos are important to have. I'm not leaving. I will stick it. I will make it work. And I'm glad I did because, yeah, I got contacted by the brand I wanted to work for. Amazing. Yeah.
• 32:32
  And with that brand, are you doing what you want to do? Is it filling all of the passion? It was. Yeah. It's not, it doesn't exist anymore. Unfortunately, it shut down after COVID. Yes. But I hear a lot of businesses, particularly in the fashion, because I spoke with somebody else in sustainable fashion and they were, and they bought the brand post COVID because so many businesses here were struggling. How did like Cambodia kind of manage that really terrible time?
• 33:02
  Well, it depends on who you ask. So a lot of businesses that depended on aid or depended on income from customers, it was definitely hard. Sure. And so we're in fashion business. So that's a very product heavy. Like you have to kind of.
• 33:22
  juggle revenue and juggle the money flow. It was really hard. And I was not in charge of that, the finances. And I actually got a raise during COVID. Oh, one!
• 33:34
  I'm so sorry for the people that did not, you know, it was a hard time. But I think we were such a small, we were small. We looked big on Instagram, but we were small. And we were really, we worked really hard to try to, like, keep it together. Right. And, yeah, it was difficult. And all of my friends still had their job. I did have a lot of friends.
• 33:59
  leave just after COVID for other opportunities. Not that they lost their job here, just ready for a change. And to be honest, COVID socially in Cambodia, in Phnom Penh, it was like nice for a while. COVID didn't hit like Cambodia until much later. And so there was like massive lockdown stuff around. We're watching news of people like,
• 34:23
  in their homes for months right uh so we were still kind of going out okay we were still kind of walking around right and then we we were i remember when there was a case the first case and it now it's in cambodia so we were just holding on like okay it's not here yet it's not here yet and then bam it got here did you ever consider going home when it was still open absolutely not really no
• 34:46
  Is that because you didn't appreciate that we were going to be in lockdown? Or is that you'd rather be here in lockdown than being home? I'd rather be here in lockdown. Really? What am I going to do in America? Go to my parents' house? Play cards or something? Eat some food?
• 34:59
  I don't know. You know, if you don't know now, for me, I like to make my life difficult. I like the challenges. And I just felt I just felt like it would be all right. OK. You know, I didn't feel like, you know, if a time came where I'm like, OK, I'm in danger, girl, get out of here. Then I would do that. But I just mean from like an isolating perspective. Like I loved COVID and I don't I don't know. It's hard. Right.
• 35:22
  But there's a balance between appreciating that many people lost loved ones. For many people, it sent them into a spiral of mental health situations that we are still seeing the effect of. So when I say I love COVID, I mean for a very specific place that I was in my life. Right. I had two restaurants. I was working seven days a week. I was working 20 hour days and not the glamorous 20 hours and not to be like, oh, I was working. It was that was what was required of me because I have an independent business and I'm running between the two.
• 35:50
  I literally did not have a menstruation cycle for nine months. And I would go to like doctors. One doctor told me, oh, why don't you get pregnant and started laughing? And I didn't find it funny. Another doctor told me to quit my job because the job was stressing me out. I said, I own my business. It's not like a little hobby on the side. And I had to ask him, would you tell like a white guy working in the city, you know, in finance to quit his job?
• 36:16
  Yes. Right. But hospitality isn't really seen as a real thing for many. And then it was only the third doctor, which happened to be a black woman that referred me to a further specialist. So I was actually on a waiting list whilst COVID happens. COVID happens and all of a sudden I have periods again and like it's all normal.
• 36:35
  without going to see anyone. And so for me, I didn't have any takeaway services. So some restaurants then allowed for takeaway. My whole business was built on the fact that Jamaica is more than takeaway food. So to then be like, oh, guys, I've been preaching that I'm trying to change and disrupt this part of my niche and now take it in a box.
• 36:57
  just didn't really make sense. Yeah, right. And so we had a furlough system in the UK, so my team could still get money in terms of to live. And there was no need for me to really panic, right? Because my team were fine, so it was fine.
• 37:12
  And the point is, I appreciate that that was a luxury position to be in. Absolutely. And then also, I then get pregnant during COVID. And I don't believe that that would have happened based on my health at the time. Like, when I tell you I was having nosebleeds just like sitting down. And nosebleeds in a restaurant, in a chef's jacket, it's not attractive. Like, you're customers. That's not cute. No, it's not. What is going on there? You know what I mean? But, yeah.
• 37:36
  So COVID gave me the luxury of being able to step back from my business. And also, like, when we reopened, I completely changed the concept for one of my restaurants. And I don't think I would have been able to do that. Because when you're just trying to get through the day, there is no, like, breathing space to think about concepts, to think about how you could make changes. Because you're just trying to keep your head above water. You know what I mean? Right. But...
• 38:01
  I will say my dad and I played cards every Sunday, even when you're not supposed to, because we're in lockdown. And it's funny because like people would criticize that we were in lockdown and you're technically going against the rules. And I would say that if my dad, God forbid, passed away during lockdown, do you genuinely think that my major concern is that we played cards last Sunday? Right.
• 38:22
  And then you go and find out that the politicians are having parties during lockdown. And I'm like, the same people telling you that you must be divisive. And I believe a lot of elderly people lost their lives during COVID, but not necessarily just due to their medical concerns. I genuinely believe that when loneliness, when you have families who are being visited regularly and those visits stop,
• 38:46
  And your family member might not even be compass mentors to really understand why those visits are stopping. Loneliness is a real thing. And so I think I'm not suggesting that we should all go break rules. I'm just suggesting that when I live my life, I weigh up what are the consequences. And to play cards with my dad was a consequence that I was willing to take the risk of. But I wonder how living abroad during that time where you do get into lockdown, how are you managing? See...
• 39:16
  Our lockdown was not as intense as the UK. So we had zones in which you had to stay. Right. Unless you were going grocery shopping. Okay. You could go outside, but it was highly discouraged. So people just stayed at home because, not because if you step out, you're going to be fined or anything, but because we were respecting that. Respectful. So, yeah, people would just go outside to do walks. Sure. It was distance, go grocery shopping, but there was no, you know.
• 39:46
  People weren't outside, outside. And, you know, sometimes people would, like, gather. And just, you know, sleep over. Oh, yeah, I'm just going groceries at this. Right. On this side of the line there. I'm not supposed to cross. But we can cross for groceries, right? So we have our grocery bag and we're walking. I'm just going to go over here. And then we, like, stay over and we have, like, a, you know, party. COVID was fun. COVID was fun.
• 40:14
  For me, for me. It was a good experience for me. And like you said, I know that it was a really difficult time for a lot of people. But it allowed me time, again, I wasn't in as intense of a situation as you, but it allowed me to chill a little bit because I was working, I'm a bit of a workaholic. And to be at home, and I was living with my ex, my partner at the time.
• 40:41
  So we were just like chilling at home and working on my, I still working, but from home. And it was like kind of nice. It was kind of, it was nice. And I could still go outside, but didn't need to. And yeah, go out on the terrace. When you say you're a workaholic, because I feel like I'm a workaholic. Yeah. Why do you think you're a workaholic? As in what pushes you to continue go, go, go?
• 41:06
  I have an internal drive to be the best I can be. And I think that's instilled in me at a young age.
• 41:18
  I think I look at my parents as examples, and they were great, like really smart, really good at what they're doing. It's like you want to be that and better. You want to be better than your parents. Yes. And I went to, like, good schools, and I just had this inner drive to want to be the best. And I've chilled now, but I just always wanted to be, like, one of the best in the room. And I knew you have to work really hard for that. And, like, 90s kids, you –
• 41:42
  They drill on you like work hard, get an education and you'll go far. That's not really what happens now. But like at the time, that was the thing. So I don't know. I just have this inner motivation for me to be the best that I can be. It can be kind of not healthy sometimes. So I've been working on that.
• 42:00
  And when you say not healthy, in what regard? If you're not focusing on your present, if you're not focusing on your relationships, your friendships, building community, like taking time for someone, like really taking time and space for someone, taking time and space for yourself,
• 42:16
  If you're just distracted by life and working and trying to reach another level in your career, then how are you enjoying the moment now? I feel like people don't acknowledge how much of a double-edged sword ambition is. Yes. Of course it's the thing that keeps you driven, going and motivated,
• 42:35
  but I think it can really send you into some dark spaces. And what I realized is, an ex once said to me, I wish that you realized that you got everything that you wanted, like every time you get what you want. And I was like, what the hell are you talking about? No, I want this.
• 42:51
  And whilst the timing is never as quick as I'd like it, like never. When he said it, I kind of stopped and thought about certain things that he was referring to in my life. Right. And I couldn't say that he was wrong. I can still give you a long list of things that I want. No, that I don't have. Let's not get it twisted. Yeah, we're human. But I understood what he was saying in terms of at that time and some of the things that I had.
• 43:14
  I had already done. But I always have this thing of when you get whatever the thing is, right? So for example, if I get a show that I get to be a part of and I don't necessarily get it the year I want it, but they call the second year, and now you're on the show. And I remember the feeling of, oh my gosh, I finally got the show, like the hype. I'm not exaggerating. After I've told my dad and my sister,
• 43:36
  I'm like, okay, but then what do I do after the show? You know, like, no joke. There is no, I don't skip a beat. So I get excited from my agent. I call my dad and my sister. And then I'm like, okay, and then what's going to happen? Right. Like, what's the point after that? And it's not all what's going to happen in an optimistic way. Yeah. Right. It's like, okay, and then when I finish shooting that, I'm going to have nothing else to work on kind of way. Right.
• 43:59
  And I haven't figured out the answer yet. I haven't figured out the answer in terms of balancing because you don't want to remove the constant momentum. But at the same time, I know that this wiring, it's not sustainable. And it's also more importantly, I need to figure it out so that I make sure that my kids don't behave in the exact same way. And I feel like I need to solve it in order to make sure I can teach it. Yeah.
• 44:22
  You know, and I haven't got it yet. And it's funny when you talk about like making space for friends and stuff. I'm very lucky in the sense that one, I don't really like human beings. So my friend circle is super small, right? Like super small. People think I like people too. Like you come to the restaurant.
• 44:38
  And for me, the restaurant is a stage, right? Like you have paid to be there to get a performance. And when I say performance, it's not false. It's just that in the context of my restaurant, I want you to feel so good. I want you to have a memorable experience. I want you to have broadened your mind on something. I want that human connection in the context of my restaurant. When it is time to close at two o'clock in the morning,
• 45:01
  I'm good. I don't want to talk to you again. Right. Like we're good until we open up and then shows on again. Yeah. And I feel like I have the luxury of just a very small few friends that kind of know who I am, that we don't need to speak regularly. But at the beginning of this year, I said to myself, I really want to make more time for these conversations. Right. And just to check in. And I feel like I was good for the month of January. And God, no.
• 45:28
  I'm terrible, no. Like, even a friend of mine, no. I message and just like, I'm just thinking of you. Just so you know I'm still thinking, but I haven't had a conversation. Okay, but just you saying and texting, I'm thinking of you, that's massive. Is it? No, that's massive. People don't do that. I receive that from my friends sometimes, but that, do you know how...
• 45:49
  how warm that makes someone feel like, just think of you, just say hi. That makes me like light up. Okay, good. It doesn't need to be big things. It can just be these little moments. And that's what I want to say. It's like appreciating little moments. It doesn't have to be big, grand gestures. We have to talk on the phone for an hour. Just like, hey.
• 46:06
  But that's also my problem, right? When I really like people, I fucking talk for like two hours. And so that plays on my mind with like, I'd be like, oh God, I really want to check in on Ray right now. But I know that we're gonna talk, we're gonna laugh, and time's gonna go by. Two hours later, I'm tired, I have all of these things to do. And so then I just don't make the call because I'm like, I can't do two hours. And I don't think I'm capable of like short little snippets
• 46:29
  Because the relationships are too funny, right? Like we're just going into too much. Yeah. And yeah, I need to figure it out. That's the point. I need to figure out the balance of, babes, I can't talk to you for two hours, but I still want to hear your voice. Yeah, balance. It's balance and finding that sweet spot. Do you feel that because you've moved away, like how are your relationships back home, as in friendships, your peer friendships since you've moved for so long?
• 46:59
  Digital. Okay. Yeah. So when I go back home, I mostly stay with my parents because I'm home for maybe two weeks. Okay. And how often do you go home? Maybe, like, try to do, it's probably at this point every other year. Okay. When I first moved here was every year. Right. Every other week. Sure. It's expensive to go back to America. Yeah. Okay.
• 47:18
  Babes. It's expensive. And during Christmas, because I go during Christmas. Oh, babe. The price is up. Yeah, so I'm like, every other year. But I do stay in contact with a handful of friends from New York. And it's mostly just digital. They're like, hey, girl up. You know, just posting. I'm like, oh, I love that. You know, smiley face. That's crazy. So I have a few group chats with a couple of friends.
• 47:45
  from America. And then I have even a friendship group that was here, but they've all left now. Okay. So they're all around the world now and we still keep in touch. So I think female friendships for me are really important now. Why? Because I didn't validate