Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Howard Lutnick And The Transcript From His Epstein Related Congressional Hearing (Part 2) (5/14/26)

Transcript

Howard Lutnick And The Transcript From His Epstein Related Congressional Hearing (Part 2) (5/14/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're getting right back to
• 0:06
  the Howard Lutnik transcripts from the deposition in front of Congress,
• 0:12
  Mister Emmer. Question, Secretary Lutnik, I understand you've had a
• 0:16
  long career, but can we just start by can you
• 0:18
  briefly walk us through your professional career up until now?
• 0:23
  Answer by Ludnik. Sure. I graduated from Haverford College in Pennsylvania,
• 0:28
  and my first job was with Canter Fitzgerald and I
• 0:30
  never had another job, So I stayed at the same
• 0:33
  firm my entire career. And if you had asked me
• 0:36
  or my family two years ago, would that be true,
• 0:39
  I would have assumed it would have been for the
• 0:41
  full amount of my career. And then I left Canter
• 0:44
  Fitzgerald to join the Trump administration as the Secretary of Commerce.
• 0:49
  So it's rather a simple career. One job since college
• 0:52
  and then a second job working for the administration. Question.
• 0:56
  Thank you, and again we appreciate your public service and
• 1:00
  agreeing to testify voluntarily. Let's talk about your contact with Epstein,
• 1:05
  and we appreciate the personal or the statement that you made,
• 1:08
  but let's start from the beginning. When did you first
• 1:11
  meet Jeffrey Epstein? Answer? I first met Jeffrey Epstein when
• 1:14
  his staff knocked on our door and invited my wife
• 1:17
  and I to come next door for coffee. He lived
• 1:20
  in the townhouse adjacent to ours, and then sometimes later
• 1:23
  my wife and I went over to his house for coffee.
• 1:27
  It was literally eight or ten steps next door. Question
• 1:30
  and who was the staffer that knocked on your door? Answer? Well,
• 1:33
  I don't know, and I didn't answer the door. I
• 1:36
  have someone who works for me who answers the door.
• 1:38
  Imagine that shit, all of these out of touch people.
• 1:42
  I have someone that answers the door for me. Does
• 1:45
  he scratch your nuts? Too? Question? So you were invited?
• 1:49
  What happened when you showed up in mister Epstein's residence? Answer?
• 1:52
  My best recollection is we walked next door, someone answered
• 1:56
  the door. We went through his foyer, up a big
• 1:59
  flight of stairs to his living room, and sat in
• 2:01
  his living room and had coffee. Mister Grant, another investigator,
• 2:07
  pipes in, excuse me, what year was that? Roughly, lut Nick,
• 2:11
  this was two thousand and five. Grant, thank you. Back
• 2:14
  to mister Emmer, question, and you said that you had
• 2:18
  coffee with them. What was the nature of your conversation
• 2:20
  with them during this coffee Answer I don't recall. Question
• 2:24
  And approximately how long did this coffee last? Answer short,
• 2:28
  A reasonably short amount of time, maybe ten fifteen minutes.
• 2:32
  And then he offered us a tour of his house.
• 2:35
  Question and I recognize that you touched on this in
• 2:38
  your opening statement, But again, when did you purchase your property? Answer? So,
• 2:43
  I purchased the property in ninety seven and then but
• 2:46
  it was an unfinished property, meaning the residents were pigeons
• 2:49
  and mice. I mean literally unfinished, I mean pigeons flying around.
• 2:54
  So it required extensive building I wouldn't even say renovations.
• 2:58
  It didn't have heating or an air conditioning system. It
• 3:00
  was a raw structure. Question and you said you didn't
• 3:04
  move into the property until two thousand and five. Correct answer,
• 3:08
  that's right. Question. And in between the purchase and the
• 3:12
  renovations you made, you had no contact with mister Epstein whatsoever?
• 3:16
  Answer zero? Question What did you know about mister Epstein's
• 3:20
  prior to this interaction? Answer? I didn't know of him.
• 3:23
  I don't recall knowing anything about him. Question you had
• 3:27
  no understanding of what his job was when you initially
• 3:29
  met him. Answer, I did not, not that I recall
• 3:33
  everything I say would be what I recall today. So
• 3:36
  question and again you brought this up in your opening statement.
• 3:39
  But this first interaction, you going to his home for coffee.
• 3:43
  That's the interaction you described on the pod fourth one podcast.
• 3:47
  Is that right? Answer? Yeah, And I went with my
• 3:50
  wife next door. He invited my wife and die over
• 3:53
  to welcome us to the neighborhood. Is what my recollection is, Emma.
• 3:59
  And for the record, I'm referring to the October first,
• 4:01
  twenty twenty five Podforce one podcast that you appeared on
• 4:05
  as a guest with Miranda. The line which we'll discuss
• 4:08
  in more detail shortly. So you have this coffee, what
• 4:12
  happened next? Answer? He offered, would you like a tour
• 4:16
  of the house? And we said sure, And then we
• 4:19
  had a tour and we went across the hall where
• 4:21
  you know, across from the living room is generally the
• 4:24
  dining room. And he opened the door and there was
• 4:26
  a massage table, and I saw his massage table and
• 4:29
  that ended the tour. Question, So you did not see
• 4:33
  the rest of the house. One room is what you're saying, answer,
• 4:36
  one room, that's my recollection. Another investigator jumps in, mister spector,
• 4:42
  Secretary Lutnick, you mentioned in your opening statement that he
• 4:46
  demonstrated that mister Epstein demonstrated a clear lack of boundaries.
• 4:50
  I think that was the word that you used. Are
• 4:52
  you referring to the massage table in that? Butt Nick?
• 4:56
  So we were in the living room. So I saw
• 4:58
  the living room, and then we went and he opened
• 5:00
  the door to the room across the hall, which was
• 5:04
  what I assumed would be the dining room. But he
• 5:06
  opened it and there was a massage table. And his
• 5:08
  lack of boundaries was what he said. Specter, what did
• 5:12
  he say? Lutnick? I asked him why I had a
• 5:14
  massage table in the middle of his house. This is
• 5:17
  the best of my recollection. It's not like precisely what
• 5:21
  he said, this is my general recollection of something that's
• 5:23
  twenty one years ago. So and I said, how often
• 5:27
  do you have a massage? And he said, my best
• 5:29
  recollection is he said every day, and the right kind
• 5:32
  of massage. And he said it to me and my
• 5:35
  wife standing next to me, and we looked at each
• 5:37
  other and we left, mister Emmer for the record, what
• 5:42
  did you interpret mister Epstein to mean when he said
• 5:44
  the right kind of massage? Answer that it would become
• 5:48
  some form of sexual nature. And that's what I assumed
• 5:51
  it meant. Question And at this point did you ask
• 5:54
  and the tour or you just said we're going to leave. Answer?
• 5:58
  I don't remember precisely what we said, but we basically
• 6:01
  excused ourselves and departed. Question. Did your wife ask mister
• 6:05
  Epstein any questions related to the massage table? Answer? I
• 6:09
  don't recall her speaking. No. Question. So on the podcast,
• 6:14
  you said, after seeing the massage table in mister Epstein's
• 6:17
  house and the six eight steps it took for you
• 6:20
  and your wife to get back to your house, you decided,
• 6:23
  and I'm quoting, that I will never be in the
• 6:25
  room with that disgusting person ever. Again, Is that an
• 6:29
  accurate characterization of the statements that you made on the podcast?
• 6:34
  Answer by Lutnik. That is informal, in complete discussion that
• 6:37
  my wife and I had as we walked back, the
• 6:40
  point of which was when I discussed it with my
• 6:42
  wife that I Howard Ludnik, would not have personal or
• 6:45
  professional relationship with this person because he obviously doesn't have boundaries,
• 6:50
  so just avoid them. I should avoid them. And that's
• 6:52
  what we discussed. It's not verbatim what we said, because
• 6:55
  this is twenty one years ago, but it's and it's
• 6:59
  what I did. I avoided that person question, and I
• 7:03
  believe my colleague may have been asking a similar question.
• 7:05
  But that feeling that he was disgusting that was based
• 7:08
  solely on interaction with Epstein after you saw the massage
• 7:11
  table and asked him about it. Is that right? Answer?
• 7:15
  It was based on the comment that was inappropriate and
• 7:18
  gross to me and my wife. It was just off
• 7:20
  putting and we left. Question. It's been reported, and we've
• 7:24
  seen by the files released by the Department of Justice
• 7:27
  that mister Epstein decorated his home with creepy and disturbing artwork.
• 7:31
  Did you notice any unusual artwork at his residence when
• 7:34
  you visited. Answer? The living room, which I saw, did
• 7:38
  not have anything creepy or unusual in it. Question you
• 7:41
  didn't notice any paintings or photos of nude women or
• 7:44
  girls on it when you visited the property? Answer? No,
• 7:48
  I would have noticed them, so no question. So I
• 7:51
  want to talk more about your appearance on the podfors
• 7:54
  one podcast and the statements you made. But first, generally,
• 7:57
  how did this appearance come about? Answer? I don't know offhand.
• 8:02
  You know it comes from your communications director. They set
• 8:05
  it up. I don't know. Question and the topic of
• 8:08
  Jeffrey Epstein was the first topic during this appearance. Did
• 8:11
  you know that you would be discussing Jeffrey Epstein when
• 8:13
  you agreed to go on the podcast? Answer? No, I
• 8:16
  thought I was going to talk about September eleventh. Question,
• 8:20
  So we talked about the statements that you made after
• 8:23
  seeing the massage table that guy's gross, disgusting. You'll never
• 8:27
  be in the room with him again, and you said
• 8:29
  it was just a one and done. Is that a
• 8:31
  fair characterization of your statements? Answer? No. I think the
• 8:35
  right way to think about it is my wife and
• 8:37
  I discussed that I would not be in the room
• 8:39
  with him for professional, philanthropic, or social reasons, meaning don't
• 8:43
  form the simplest way to say it, don't form a
• 8:46
  personal or professional relationship with him, avoid establishing one because
• 8:50
  he has no boundaries. Right. He said something inappropriate, just
• 8:54
  avoid them, and I did. So. That was the discussion
• 8:58
  with my wife. It was informal. I wasn't trying to
• 9:00
  be precise. I was trying to have people understand that
• 9:03
  I that my wife and I discussed that I would
• 9:06
  not establish a personal or professional relationship with him, and
• 9:09
  that I did not thereafter. I did not question during
• 9:14
  the podcast, you dispute any characterization that you implied that
• 9:18
  after the initial interaction that you would interact with mister
• 9:21
  Epstein again. Answer, I would the characterization suggesting that I
• 9:26
  couldn't be in the room that personally. It was a
• 9:29
  discussion with my wife that I, as a man, should
• 9:32
  avoid being with him because he has no boundaries and
• 9:35
  that won't work well for me in my life if
• 9:37
  I'm with someone with no boundaries, So avoid him. That
• 9:40
  was the discussion I had with my wife. And I
• 9:43
  did avoid him, So it was true what I said.
• 9:45
  It wasn't that I couldn't be if he As the
• 9:47
  members know, often people come to up to you and
• 9:50
  you know, say hello to you in a big crowd.
• 9:53
  I wasn't saying that couldn't occur. It didn't occur. But
• 9:56
  the point I was making is I would not have
• 9:58
  a personal or a professional relationship with them. I would
• 10:01
  avoid it, and I did avoid it. Question, did you
• 10:04
  interact with Epstein after the initial interaction that you described
• 10:08
  on the podcast? Answer? I said my opening statement, I
• 10:12
  had two in person interactions with them thereafter over the
• 10:15
  next fourteen years, even though I lived adjacent to them.
• 10:18
  Two interactions over the next fourteen years, both meaningless and inconsequential. Question,
• 10:25
  and we will get into more specifics, but did you
• 10:27
  visit Epstein's private island? Is that right? Answer? I did
• 10:32
  visit Epstein's private island with my wife and children and
• 10:35
  another couple and their four children in staff. Yes. Question.
• 10:39
  I want to briefly talk about statements that you made
• 10:41
  related to and I'm going to your statement was that
• 10:44
  Epstein had an MO to give massages to influential individuals
• 10:49
  and that he used blackmail for the record that was
• 10:51
  based not on firsthand knowledge. Is that right answer? Correct question?
• 10:57
  Trou Wolager. I'm sorry, counsel, would you mind, I'm just
• 11:00
  letting us know where that statement's coming from Emmer during
• 11:03
  the podcast. Urwilger, thank you, Emmer, and I'll be happy
• 11:07
  to pull out the transcript. Urwilger, No, just curious, just
• 11:11
  wanted to make sure that we're tracking where you're pulling
• 11:14
  the statement from thank you redacted. We can't hear back here, Lutnick,
• 11:20
  I was just speculating for a podcast. I had no
• 11:22
  personal information. I was just speculating for a podcast. Emmer.
• 11:27
  So for the record, sir, did Jeffrey Epstein ever inform
• 11:30
  or represent to you that he was part of any
• 11:32
  intelligence service of any nation, including the United States? Answer? No.
• 11:37
  Question So how would you characterize your relationship with mister Epstein? Answer?
• 11:42
  I had no personal or professional relationship with him. I
• 11:46
  had two interactions in person that were meaningless and inconsequential.
• 11:50
  I would say I had no relationship with him. Question
• 11:54
  how often did you interact with Epstein in a personal capacity? Answer?
• 11:59
  I met him once in two thousand and five. I
• 12:01
  had two meaningless and inconsequential other personal interactions, and I
• 12:05
  tried to think about this as many times as I can,
• 12:08
  and I cannot think of any others, nor do the
• 12:10
  document show any others. Question besides the in person interaction,
• 12:15
  which again we'll talk about more specifically later, did you
• 12:18
  email have phone calls with mister Epstein? Answer? I don't
• 12:23
  recall ever having a phone call with mister Epstein, and
• 12:26
  I think I had one set of email interactions with
• 12:28
  mister Epstein personally that went meaning four were written by
• 12:32
  me to him, but in one effectively one conversation. I mean,
• 12:36
  I said A, he responded B. I wrote C, he
• 12:39
  responded D. And I think that there were a total
• 12:42
  of four in one day. Once question, for the record,
• 12:46
  you've mentioned the visit to the island, the tour of
• 12:48
  the town home. Did you ever visit Epstein's Palm Beach home,
• 12:52
  Answer no. Did you ever visit Epstein's New Mexico ranch,
• 12:56
  answer no. Questioned his Paris apartment, answer no question. Did
• 13:02
  you ever visit any property owned or at least by
• 13:05
  mister Epstein, answer no question. Did mister Epstein ever invite
• 13:09
  you to any of his properties? Answer no question. Did
• 13:12
  you ever fly on any of mister Epstein's private planes?
• 13:16
  Answer no. Specter, and just for clarity on the record
• 13:22
  you had besides the two interactions you discussed at Epstein's
• 13:25
  New York home, did you ever visit that home at
• 13:28
  any other time that he was not present? Lutnick No.
• 13:33
  All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here,
• 13:35
  and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
• 13:37
  going to pick up where we left off. All the
• 13:40
  information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 13:43
  the description box.