Latest / Like a Virgin / The Alanis of Drag (feat. Charlene Incarnate)

Transcript

The Alanis of Drag (feat. Charlene Incarnate) · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: I have homosexuals who I hit up for advice for numbers,
0:10
Speaker 1: but these are gold Star Gaze and not in the
0:13
Speaker 1: never Touched a Vagina since you know what I mean.
0:15
Speaker 1: In the like saw Diva's Live as it aired, I
0:25
Speaker 1: want you to know that this episode is uh that
0:34
Speaker 1: owned Jaggon Little Kids. You're trying not to corner yourself
0:41
Speaker 1: as the singer on this podcast. Do you really want
0:44
Speaker 1: to be the songstress of Like a Vision? Today we'll
0:47
Speaker 1: be taking a look back at Atlantis Morrisett's Jagged Little Pill,
0:50
Speaker 1: because this is like a Virgin, the show where we
0:53
Speaker 1: give yesterday's pop culture today's taste. I'm Rose Damn and
0:57
Speaker 1: I'm Fran Toronto here to talk about Jagged Little Hill.
1:01
Speaker 1: With us is show girl, high priestess, emphasis on high
1:06
Speaker 1: drag artist and Miga Judy, Charlene and Karnet. I will say,
1:12
Speaker 1: you know, Rose, before we have to get into Jagged
1:14
Speaker 1: Little Pill. Should we go touday Nio? Yes, let's take
1:19
Speaker 1: a trip down the Nile? But will there be enough champagne? Yes?
1:23
Speaker 1: I actually brought enough champagne to fill the Nile. I
1:31
Speaker 1: have to say I'm kind of um gal gado. Stand now, girl,
1:38
Speaker 1: We are going to put you into G G. A.
1:41
Speaker 1: Galagado holes and I wait. So this weekend, Fran and
1:46
Speaker 1: I saw Death on the Nile Um with our friend
1:49
Speaker 1: La La, and as we were walking out, we were,
1:52
Speaker 1: you know, doing that thing where you leave a movie
1:54
Speaker 1: and everyone's like starting to say what they wait, wait, wait,
1:58
Speaker 1: wait wait I have okay, I just have to say, like,
2:01
Speaker 1: I experienced this movie being like, this must be one
2:06
Speaker 1: of the worst movies I've seen in a minute. And
2:09
Speaker 1: that is and that is sort of the vibe you
2:11
Speaker 1: and Lala started to give off as we were leaving,
2:14
Speaker 1: and I said, I loved it. And y'all, I thought
2:18
Speaker 1: you were going to not give me a ride home
2:20
Speaker 1: because of that. Our experiences of that movie were dramatically different,
2:24
Speaker 1: let's say that. And yeah, I was sitting next to
2:27
Speaker 1: you the whole time laughing, well because I was, I was,
2:31
Speaker 1: you know, making some commentary throughout the film, like when
2:35
Speaker 1: when spoiler alert, gal Gado is killed, I said, army
2:38
Speaker 1: hammer is going to go fire up the grill, Oh god,
2:42
Speaker 1: like very quickly. We have to just kind of like
2:44
Speaker 1: you know, in the pot. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, gal Gado,
2:49
Speaker 1: you know, is a wealthy billionaire with a colonialist hobby
2:53
Speaker 1: for like, you know, exploring Egypt, and she and her
2:57
Speaker 1: mail order bride army Hammer decide to you know, invite like, okay,
3:02
Speaker 1: but you do, didn't You actually buried a very important part,
3:07
Speaker 1: which is that army Hammer who marries from getting there,
3:11
Speaker 1: I'm getting there, I'm getting Do not trust me at all?
3:14
Speaker 1: Do you not trust me? I don't trust you literally
3:17
Speaker 1: at all. That is rich coming from someone who threatens
3:21
Speaker 1: to kill me almost every podcast. Yeah, and you know what,
3:25
Speaker 1: I would get away with it, and because because Pole
3:29
Speaker 1: is not coming to save you know, you would not
3:32
Speaker 1: get away with it because at the end of an
3:34
Speaker 1: Agatha Christie novel, the person who is most obviously the
3:37
Speaker 1: killer is the killer and there are hours of audio
3:44
Speaker 1: recordings of me threatening to kill you. So anyways that
3:48
Speaker 1: they invite you know a few dozen of their like
3:51
Speaker 1: most mortal enemies to their wedding, and of course their
3:54
Speaker 1: wedding takes place on Zeni Um and there's like this
3:58
Speaker 1: kind of likes best friend played by an actress who
4:03
Speaker 1: I really love but only referred to her as baby
4:05
Speaker 1: Margot Rubbie Um keeps showing up at everywhere they go
4:09
Speaker 1: and just like staring at them, and so Armie Hammer
4:12
Speaker 1: and Gal Gadot put out a call to find what
4:15
Speaker 1: is basically like the detective with the most absurdest steampunk
4:20
Speaker 1: mustache they could possibly find. And this detective accuses literally
4:26
Speaker 1: every single character of murder until he gets it right
4:31
Speaker 1: on the last try. Five people die and he outs
4:34
Speaker 1: to lesbians. Three people die. Um, he does out to
4:39
Speaker 1: lesbians forcibly. And I did think that at the end
4:46
Speaker 1: of the movie when they all like get off the boat,
4:48
Speaker 1: that he was going to be like, by the way,
4:50
Speaker 1: the police are here to arrest you. So okay, top line,
4:55
Speaker 1: I loved it. I had a great time. I as
4:59
Speaker 1: I tried to explain to frand you know, this is
5:01
Speaker 1: not a thriller mystery with modern sensibilities. This is an
5:07
Speaker 1: Agatha Christie who done it. And the movies specifically are
5:14
Speaker 1: very much made for a kind of boomer sensibility, people
5:18
Speaker 1: who are familiar with Agatha Christie novels and want to
5:21
Speaker 1: see a very faithful, lush adaptation of them. And I
5:26
Speaker 1: guess I'm a boomer because I really enjoyed it. Well
5:30
Speaker 1: that's not that's not news to anybody. I really feel
5:33
Speaker 1: like that I'm a boomer. Yeah, you're a boomer. You
5:36
Speaker 1: literally are no offense Rose. The movie delivered on what
5:40
Speaker 1: I signed up for during a completely displaced, kind of
5:45
Speaker 1: almost sex scene between Army Hammer and gal Gadot that
5:48
Speaker 1: takes place on an Egyptian ruin, because the Egyptian ruins.
5:51
Speaker 1: That was great. The Egyptian ruins make them so horny,
5:56
Speaker 1: they literally cannot control themselves around all of these dead
6:00
Speaker 1: like mummies, and gal Gato like backs up on it,
6:03
Speaker 1: backs up as if she's like, she's like, do me
6:06
Speaker 1: doggy style literally, and that's not an exaggeration, and and
6:12
Speaker 1: gal is so it is so poorly blocked. They did
6:15
Speaker 1: maybe two takes and they were like, yeah, we got it.
6:18
Speaker 1: That look. That was just imagine Kenneth Brana directing that. Also, Man,
6:23
Speaker 1: I had never heard of Fran did not know who
6:26
Speaker 1: Kenneth Branna was. I have talked about Kenneth Branna to
6:29
Speaker 1: a few other people and they didn't know who he
6:30
Speaker 1: was either. So I think that you're just exactly the
6:33
Speaker 1: demographic for Kenneth Brannah. Yeah, I'm a boomer, Yeah, exactly
6:37
Speaker 1: exactly when I signed When I signed up for a mystery,
6:41
Speaker 1: you would think that there would be you know, twists, turns,
6:45
Speaker 1: red Herrings. Clues dropped along the way like scandalous like
6:51
Speaker 1: reveals and moments where like oh my god, and they
6:54
Speaker 1: were like three of those like there, Yeah, it doesn't
6:57
Speaker 1: really do that. There's the the miss The clues are
7:02
Speaker 1: not really telegraphed to the audience. And also, like let's
7:06
Speaker 1: say spoiler alert, the people who end up being the
7:09
Speaker 1: killers are like mostly it's it's like the most obvious
7:15
Speaker 1: choice for who done. And Rose can vouch for me.
7:18
Speaker 1: The first clue dropped, literally the very first clue with
7:23
Speaker 1: that is, in my opinion, telegraphed to the audience. I
7:27
Speaker 1: turned to Rose and I said it's so and so
7:30
Speaker 1: and so and so, and Rose goes, well, and she
7:33
Speaker 1: was right like it would be way too obvious, and
7:35
Speaker 1: I was kind of like, yeah, it would be too obvious,
7:38
Speaker 1: and that your frand are you are the acu pire
7:44
Speaker 1: of our time? Okay, well, let me just grow out
7:48
Speaker 1: a super steampunk mustache. I will say I enjoyed all
7:53
Speaker 1: of the performances in this film, with the exception of
7:56
Speaker 1: Russell Brands, which I thought was very flat. And then
7:58
Speaker 1: also there's a character name I thought, and Gal was
8:00
Speaker 1: kind of fun. I thought gal was so fun. I
8:03
Speaker 1: thought she was almost perfectly cast, like I think casting
8:06
Speaker 1: someone who's gorgeous and kind of bad acting, it's like
8:09
Speaker 1: perfect for a mystery. And all Tomargo Robbie was good.
8:12
Speaker 1: She was stunning. I felt like, you know, that was
8:16
Speaker 1: there was nothing wrong with like necessarily that. I thought
8:19
Speaker 1: all the performances were good. I just thought it was
8:21
Speaker 1: a really poorly constructed movie that was completely like it
8:26
Speaker 1: was virtually joyless. Well, I was very I was filled
8:29
Speaker 1: with joy watching it, especially because of gal Gado's livery
8:33
Speaker 1: of and enough champagne to fill the nile, which was
8:37
Speaker 1: as satisfying as I thought it would. Well. When we
8:40
Speaker 1: walked out of this movie, I was just stunned because
8:43
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, we just watched a
8:45
Speaker 1: two hour like movie that was so so bad and
8:49
Speaker 1: the only reason we saw it was for one single tweet.
8:53
Speaker 1: Literally literally, I had no plans of seeing this, and
8:58
Speaker 1: I saw the video people reacting to that line on
9:02
Speaker 1: Twitter last week and was like, we have to go,
9:05
Speaker 1: we have to go, which we did decide what as
9:08
Speaker 1: we were watching drag Race last week, which I am
9:12
Speaker 1: still so confused by this week's episode of drag Race. Why,
9:18
Speaker 1: I don't understand what the judges were thinking in their
9:22
Speaker 1: choices of the tops and bottoms and the winner. So
9:27
Speaker 1: I mean, if you don't watch drag Race this week,
9:29
Speaker 1: it was it was an unconventional materials design challenge and
9:35
Speaker 1: the looks were mostly bad, and one of the worst
9:38
Speaker 1: ones was the one that won. The look that Georgia
9:42
Speaker 1: has made. How it's extremely obvious that this is like
9:47
Speaker 1: a tool of production and that they're trying to like
9:50
Speaker 1: stoke tensions between the queens by making them jealous and confused.
9:54
Speaker 1: It's like literally psychological warfare, and they are clearly not
9:59
Speaker 1: picking the winner so that they can just stir the pot.
10:02
Speaker 1: But this is drastic even for drag Race, because Georgia's
10:06
Speaker 1: look is so literally look at the material, yes, exactly,
10:10
Speaker 1: like look at the material. I would feel differently if
10:13
Speaker 1: it was just one. But they gave positive critiques to
10:17
Speaker 1: like two or three of like the worst looks. Ever,
10:21
Speaker 1: I don't understand what the judges see and Desa I
10:24
Speaker 1: don't either. That she was wearing curtain and all of
10:28
Speaker 1: her runways have been totally lackluster and she's a seamstress,
10:32
Speaker 1: and all of the looks that she She's always saying
10:35
Speaker 1: I made this, and it's like, well, you shouldn't have,
10:37
Speaker 1: because and she is one of the most like she's
10:41
Speaker 1: kind of one of the most like entitled, and like
10:44
Speaker 1: she's really like grumpy about a lot of things and
10:47
Speaker 1: like she but she's an amazing lip sinker. And I
10:49
Speaker 1: think that we were totally robbed of the experience of
10:53
Speaker 1: Georgia's and Asia lip sinking to Sugar Mama. That would
10:57
Speaker 1: have been on real, that would have been unreal, and
11:01
Speaker 1: it would have been but Maddie, Maddie had to be
11:04
Speaker 1: in the bottom. No, I mean, and she had to
11:07
Speaker 1: go her time. I disagree. If I was in production,
11:10
Speaker 1: I would have been like, let's keep Maddie another week
11:12
Speaker 1: because she's good for TV. Let's send Aja home and
11:15
Speaker 1: they're going to have a dope ass lip sync to
11:19
Speaker 1: Sugar Mama, Like that would have been incredible, Like and
11:22
Speaker 1: I want to see George's lip sync like five more times,
11:25
Speaker 1: and so does Rue like she keeps saying it, you know, yeah,
11:28
Speaker 1: I do think. I do just think that, like the
11:31
Speaker 1: narrative of Maddie, like they probably felt like they had
11:34
Speaker 1: gotten everything they could out of it, because like even
11:38
Speaker 1: though there was like a lot of hubbub at the
11:40
Speaker 1: beginning of the season about her, like it didn't really continue.
11:45
Speaker 1: There wasn't a lot of drama around her being straight,
11:48
Speaker 1: and like, you know, she had a fight with Jasmine
11:51
Speaker 1: in Untucked this week, and so I think like they've
11:55
Speaker 1: gotten all the mileage they could out of her storyline.
11:58
Speaker 1: But I do think, like I'm just so mystified because
12:01
Speaker 1: I really felt like a lot of the girls who
12:03
Speaker 1: were safe should have been in the top, especially Willow.
12:07
Speaker 1: I think she should have won. Her look was the best.
12:09
Speaker 1: I thought Willow or Angeria should have won, and Jeria, Yeah, Anderia,
12:13
Speaker 1: Willow and Juria right now are definitely my front runners,
12:17
Speaker 1: Like I think they will be in the top three,
12:19
Speaker 1: unless I am worried that the screen time we're seeing
12:23
Speaker 1: around how like exhausted Willow is Like I wonder if
12:28
Speaker 1: that's threading a plot line that will like pay off
12:32
Speaker 1: in quotation marks with her like having to leave the competition,
12:37
Speaker 1: which would be horrible, you like, but you know drag races,
12:41
Speaker 1: like they're so heavy handed with editing that that's my
12:44
Speaker 1: immediate fear. But I do think she can and should
12:49
Speaker 1: go all the way to them. I agree. I think
12:52
Speaker 1: that you and I are both rooting for Willow to win.
12:54
Speaker 1: To be honest, I mean, Anderia is worthy of the Wind,
12:57
Speaker 1: but like willows story in the Wind is like so good,
13:01
Speaker 1: and I do think that what Willow does is more singular,
13:04
Speaker 1: you know. And Geria has an excellency in the kind
13:08
Speaker 1: of pageant queen nous that she is. But we've never
13:12
Speaker 1: seen a queen like Willow before. Angeria will be great
13:15
Speaker 1: on All Stars. Yeah, exactly seven or whatever number we're
13:19
Speaker 1: out now. Anyways, are you listening to the the new
13:22
Speaker 1: Competraus album. I have listened to slaptop Dara, ask your thoughts. Yeah,
13:29
Speaker 1: it's fun, you know, I don't think it's anything like groundbreaking.
13:33
Speaker 1: It's also what like fifteen minutes long. I like the
13:36
Speaker 1: vibe of it because I like that it's like this
13:40
Speaker 1: dirty Berlin like house that is obviously reminiscent of the
13:46
Speaker 1: of her Halloween album, which is obviously her best album
13:50
Speaker 1: no skips, point blank period. But like, I think this
13:53
Speaker 1: album is like I mean, I think the first two songs,
13:56
Speaker 1: which I consider basically one song, are like nice. I
13:59
Speaker 1: think not that Kim Petris has ever been a master
14:03
Speaker 1: of lyrics, but like the fact that every song is
14:07
Speaker 1: kind of this like gay idiot culture algorithm generated kind
14:12
Speaker 1: of like slut anthem. Yeah, it's like she she like
14:15
Speaker 1: went and took a bunch of tweets and put them
14:18
Speaker 1: set them to music. Yeah, and I know it's very
14:22
Speaker 1: aware of itself, like Kim is playing a cartoon. She
14:24
Speaker 1: knows exactly what she's doing, Like I see the character.
14:29
Speaker 1: I just I wondered, like to what end this this
14:33
Speaker 1: like kind of music continues on, you know what I mean,
14:35
Speaker 1: Like I don't I see a point of view, and
14:38
Speaker 1: I think it's really funny. And there are certainly some
14:40
Speaker 1: kind of like Mimi bops, like I don't know if
14:42
Speaker 1: you saw that TikTok of like Kirby from like Nintendo,
14:46
Speaker 1: like sucking up a bunch of things to throat go.
14:49
Speaker 1: Have you seen that? It's very funny. Um, But yeah,
14:53
Speaker 1: I wonder how long she'll kind of keep that joke going.
14:55
Speaker 1: I wonder, like who knows that she's in on the
14:58
Speaker 1: joke and who thinks that this is genuinely her music.
15:01
Speaker 1: It feels like it has the potential to pigeonhole her
15:05
Speaker 1: sort of the same way that doing her Halloween EPs,
15:09
Speaker 1: which I think are some of her best music kind
15:13
Speaker 1: of pigeon holed her as like spooky Halloween girl, But
15:16
Speaker 1: I don't think I think the thing. Actually, I think
15:18
Speaker 1: that no one has done that since like Michael Jackson's Thriller,
15:23
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, No one's dropping Halloween, you
15:25
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I just wonder it's very singular. Yeah,
15:29
Speaker 1: I just wonder like where this is coming from, Like
15:32
Speaker 1: is it actually the music she wants to be making
15:36
Speaker 1: or has she felt like she's hitting a wall in
15:39
Speaker 1: terms of what her like mainstream kind of pop offerings
15:43
Speaker 1: can do to advance her career. So she's like doubling
15:46
Speaker 1: down on being a kind of niche gay pop star
15:49
Speaker 1: two minute bimbo bops, you know the other pop girlies
15:52
Speaker 1: who are like in the Kim sphere, Charlie is making
15:57
Speaker 1: songs that I'm hearing on the radio, and like Caroline
16:01
Speaker 1: is getting all of this, you know, mainstream like you know,
16:05
Speaker 1: kind of credible music attention, and Kim is like making
16:11
Speaker 1: TikTok songs. Yeah that said, Coconuts slaps Love Love that single.
16:17
Speaker 1: And then of course you know there's still the stink
16:20
Speaker 1: of Dr Luke wafting over it all. Yeah, okay. Also,
16:23
Speaker 1: Jasmine Sullivan released a deluxe version of Hotels Very Good.
16:28
Speaker 1: Obviously Hurt Me So Good, I think is the standout
16:31
Speaker 1: from it. And then also, do you ever listen to Ravenna?
16:35
Speaker 1: Ravenna is like she reminds me a little a little
16:38
Speaker 1: bit of like Corinne Bailey Ray, maybe like really early
16:42
Speaker 1: Solange at your record. Yeah, it's kind of like that.
16:46
Speaker 1: It's kind of like these really feel good R and
16:48
Speaker 1: B inspired, like positivity bops. They're kind of like self
16:52
Speaker 1: care bops kind of. I think a lot of the
16:54
Speaker 1: songs are really wonderful as a as a total album,
16:56
Speaker 1: it just flows really nicely together. My favorite is Kathy
16:59
Speaker 1: Left Katman Do, which I think is just such a
17:02
Speaker 1: fun song. The album ends with a thirteen minute guided meditation, which, um,
17:10
Speaker 1: I mean, I won't be listening. I don't know if
17:14
Speaker 1: I definitely tells us who she is as an artist,
17:17
Speaker 1: but the rest of album is is wonderful. You know,
17:32
Speaker 1: Atlantis was actually a hip hop artist before Jagged Little Pill.
17:36
Speaker 1: She was she was, And that's something that to know
17:40
Speaker 1: about Atlantis is that a part of what makes her
17:43
Speaker 1: not only one of the creators of one of the
17:46
Speaker 1: great rock albums of all time, but also a creator
17:49
Speaker 1: of one of the great gay albums of all time?
17:51
Speaker 1: Is that kind of first and foremost, she did want
17:53
Speaker 1: to be famous. She was doing the grind. There's actually
17:57
Speaker 1: a lyric in her most recent album where she complains
18:01
Speaker 1: about how she's been working since she can remember, since
18:03
Speaker 1: she was single, digits um and so there was intention.
18:10
Speaker 1: There was an intention to be a star or someone
18:14
Speaker 1: of great significance or influence. Rather, well, that's something that's
18:18
Speaker 1: something that seems like it must have resonated for you,
18:20
Speaker 1: because I think you do everything you do with intention.
18:24
Speaker 1: I mean, listeners, if you don't know her, our guest
18:27
Speaker 1: Charlene and Karnate is an incredible Brooklyn based performer, and
18:33
Speaker 1: as long as I have known you, I feel like
18:36
Speaker 1: everything you do is very intentional, like declaration of your
18:42
Speaker 1: taste and point of view and identity. And so you're
18:45
Speaker 1: trying to draw parallels between Atlantis and I already at
18:49
Speaker 1: the top of the show, I am because because I
18:52
Speaker 1: do want to know, like what what was your when
18:56
Speaker 1: did you find So that's the thing, that's the that's
18:58
Speaker 1: the thing is like what a do you approach this
19:00
Speaker 1: conversation from? Because like I said, it's a great It
19:03
Speaker 1: was one of the great undeniably one of the great
19:04
Speaker 1: rock American rock albums, but also incidentally and curiously one
19:11
Speaker 1: of the great gay albums. You know. I when I
19:14
Speaker 1: saw Atlanta's this summer at Jones Beach, it really unfolded
19:19
Speaker 1: for me, Like how hard she actually rocks and how
19:22
Speaker 1: like I wasn't expecting her fan base to like be
19:25
Speaker 1: a lot of straight people. I was expecting it to
19:27
Speaker 1: be dolls. And at Jones Beach, what was the vibe?
19:31
Speaker 1: There were girls like me? I gotta say, they weren't
19:37
Speaker 1: like me, like in a girl like me kind of
19:39
Speaker 1: like I just mean, they were long haired, brunette women
19:44
Speaker 1: who dressed in a specific sort of bow way wherein
19:48
Speaker 1: they kind of like fancied themselves in Atlantis of sorts themselves.
19:52
Speaker 1: It was it was verging on cosplay. But they were
19:54
Speaker 1: all these like, you know, hot straight men that had
19:57
Speaker 1: like gotten the tickets for her their girl all and
20:00
Speaker 1: like it was date city and so yeah that how
20:04
Speaker 1: was the experience of the concert, honey? I mean, what
20:06
Speaker 1: can I say aside from She's still got it. It's
20:08
Speaker 1: the twenty five year. This past summer was twenty five
20:11
Speaker 1: years of Jagged Little Pills. So she performed pretty much
20:14
Speaker 1: the whole album, not that she wouldn't anyway, because something
20:19
Speaker 1: that I also learned empathetically empathetically rather because I was
20:23
Speaker 1: so high, and I took the cue from Atlantis actually
20:26
Speaker 1: because in the most recent album she has a song
20:28
Speaker 1: about doing assets. So I was like, whatever, she'll probably
20:30
Speaker 1: be on my level. And boy was she ever honey.
20:33
Speaker 1: And I was like empathetically feeling not only like her
20:39
Speaker 1: energy performing in front of me, but also like her
20:42
Speaker 1: reconnecting to this music that she made five years ago,
20:46
Speaker 1: and like how it had like the journey it had
20:50
Speaker 1: taken her on, and how she related to it nowadays
20:54
Speaker 1: what songs she connected to more like really obviously and
20:57
Speaker 1: which one she was tired of was just like so
21:00
Speaker 1: apparent to me and like what she put into them.
21:03
Speaker 1: And I have a whole new favorite track list from
21:04
Speaker 1: the album now after seeing her before, it was like
21:07
Speaker 1: it was all like she her voice is still she's
21:09
Speaker 1: got this really like iconic sort of yodeling thing. Um
21:15
Speaker 1: that's still like perfectly intact. And she did this thing
21:19
Speaker 1: where between numbers she would kind of like vocalize randomly
21:24
Speaker 1: in this like kind of operatic ethereal like um yodaly
21:30
Speaker 1: sort of way I can I can imagine it, like
21:34
Speaker 1: I'm getting about it. That's those were the parts that
21:37
Speaker 1: made me cry in the show. It's because I was like,
21:40
Speaker 1: this is and she's just so gracious, She's so like
21:44
Speaker 1: willing to accept her impact on the world. She realizes
21:48
Speaker 1: the magnitude of jagged Little pill, and she she's like,
21:51
Speaker 1: you know, like I look up to so many women
21:54
Speaker 1: who are creators, who like become like resentful of the
21:57
Speaker 1: things that made them, Like take a Dina Menzel another
22:00
Speaker 1: like she's she resents so deeply having been Alphaba and
22:06
Speaker 1: sort of like she was not hitting the note when
22:11
Speaker 1: she left the production on Broadway Girl, and then and
22:16
Speaker 1: these assholes actually keep giving her these notes. She can't
22:19
Speaker 1: hit two? Did you did you ever hear her hit
22:21
Speaker 1: the note in the Frozen song once? She must have
22:26
Speaker 1: gotten it exactly once, and they and she's lucky to
22:29
Speaker 1: have been in the studio and they're like, all right,
22:31
Speaker 1: we got it, the kluck on the road bitch. And
22:34
Speaker 1: then they have her, they have her at the Oscars
22:37
Speaker 1: like with all of the other else's from around the
22:39
Speaker 1: world to we're all hitting the notes. Yes, they were,
22:43
Speaker 1: well that was that was frozen two oscars right, Or
22:46
Speaker 1: then they have like remember the beginning of the pandemic,
22:49
Speaker 1: there was the video of all of the Alphaba's doing
22:51
Speaker 1: defined gravity, and like Adina very calculatedly comes in at
22:57
Speaker 1: a lower stakes part of the end a limited but
23:03
Speaker 1: then they have like forty different girls go wow, and
23:07
Speaker 1: you're like, when you hear that so many times in
23:10
Speaker 1: a row, you're like, is Adina the Atlantis of musical theater? No,
23:14
Speaker 1: I don't think so, because of what he was just
23:16
Speaker 1: talking about how she's she's she's not gracious like Atlantis is.
23:20
Speaker 1: There's a grace to Atlantis that I think people that
23:24
Speaker 1: a novice will often miss because she's so often characterized
23:28
Speaker 1: as full of wrath and anger. And a lot of
23:31
Speaker 1: that has to do with the track you ought to
23:33
Speaker 1: Know from Jagged Little Pill and a few more others.
23:36
Speaker 1: There's you ought to Know, which is personal grief and
23:39
Speaker 1: anger towards a person, and then there's right through you,
23:43
Speaker 1: which is a broader anger towards like men. I'd say,
23:47
Speaker 1: because I do think that her fury feels like righteous
23:51
Speaker 1: and cosmic and biblical in a way that I think
23:55
Speaker 1: is the reason why you ought to know is so
23:57
Speaker 1: personal for so many people because it is so specific,
24:01
Speaker 1: yet it transcends her specific situation and becomes like universal rage.
24:07
Speaker 1: And I get what you're saying about her being this
24:10
Speaker 1: like almost this like spiritual figure of most and and
24:15
Speaker 1: and that was established from the jump with these tracks
24:19
Speaker 1: like this and and it's like these tracks are running
24:22
Speaker 1: the full gamut. Jackie Little Pill is successful in providing
24:28
Speaker 1: a comprehensive spectrum of the experience of womanhood. And in
24:33
Speaker 1: these tracks there is a comprehensive spectrum of all of
24:38
Speaker 1: the things that make her full of wrath. There's anger,
24:42
Speaker 1: there's immense grief in the track too, you know, and
24:45
Speaker 1: there's sadness and sorrow that is very hard for you
24:50
Speaker 1: to strike a balance with as a as like a musician,
24:52
Speaker 1: I guess also lyrically, that's something that Atlantis is known
24:57
Speaker 1: for most in like you know, among like Rolling Stone
24:59
Speaker 1: or folks Circles is her lyrics. I love the track
25:03
Speaker 1: right through you because it's like she's just like belittle,
25:05
Speaker 1: like she says, your shake is like a fish. And
25:07
Speaker 1: when I like again like then but not being ready
25:09
Speaker 1: when the Jaggon lot pill came out when I would
25:11
Speaker 1: hear my mom listen jaging little pill had here. Your
25:13
Speaker 1: shake is like a fish, And I thought AD meant that,
25:15
Speaker 1: like she like he makes gross milkshakes that tastes like
25:18
Speaker 1: fish or something, you know, But she's just like belittling
25:21
Speaker 1: his manhood. You're you're like, you know, like the handshake
25:26
Speaker 1: is like the thing that the man is proud of,
25:28
Speaker 1: and like something that was like you know, beaten into
25:31
Speaker 1: me as a child too, is that I had to
25:32
Speaker 1: have a firm handshake, you know. And I just loved
25:35
Speaker 1: so much hearing like Atlantis like ship all over that
25:38
Speaker 1: and just like be be like like like you know,
25:40
Speaker 1: being me and woman, like a fierce woman is like
25:43
Speaker 1: so far preferable to like whatever is going on there. Really, Yeah,
25:47
Speaker 1: she really cuts masculinity off at the knees in a
25:52
Speaker 1: way that you can't argue with. It's like she that
25:56
Speaker 1: album to me is the last word of a relationship,
26:00
Speaker 1: of an argument. I feel like they're I mean something
26:02
Speaker 1: that I love about that lyric, and I guess the
26:04
Speaker 1: ethos of the album in general is like how guys
26:07
Speaker 1: saying like like firm handshakes and like my dad would
26:11
Speaker 1: say that to me, that's like how men like culture
26:13
Speaker 1: each other, and so for her to say it's like
26:16
Speaker 1: such a a subversion of that. And I think that,
26:18
Speaker 1: like I love what you said at the beginning about
26:20
Speaker 1: like how this is like an a legacy of like
26:22
Speaker 1: gay albums because like you know, like Adam Lambert like
26:25
Speaker 1: always referencing like you know, Atlantis or like Perfume Genius
26:28
Speaker 1: or like all these folks that people that now have
26:30
Speaker 1: like a queer like something that's explicitly queer or gay,
26:34
Speaker 1: and like their albums come from this like thing that
26:37
Speaker 1: maybe it's not explicitly gay, but has the wrath that
26:42
Speaker 1: um we all identify with so quickly when you are,
26:45
Speaker 1: you know, a teen or when you're consuming this album,
26:47
Speaker 1: I feel like it is explicitly gay sometimes, which just
26:51
Speaker 1: because it's like just the legacy that it has is
26:55
Speaker 1: so gay, Like there's there was a high priel at
26:58
Speaker 1: the concert. I love a good high prel. I think
27:01
Speaker 1: Atlantis this past tour, the Jagged Little fill Year Tour
27:05
Speaker 1: might oust Brittany Spears's Circus tour as my favorite hybrial.
27:11
Speaker 1: Before the diva comes on stage, you know, they're like
27:14
Speaker 1: showing you a montage of flashes of iconic images, shoots
27:19
Speaker 1: and clips that the person has like gone through self
27:22
Speaker 1: made fan camp, and you realize watching the Atlantis one
27:26
Speaker 1: that all of these zeitgeist moments that she's had kind
27:31
Speaker 1: of have arisen from the narrative that she was writing
27:33
Speaker 1: in Jagged Little Pill, specifically like her part in the
27:36
Speaker 1: movie Dogma where she plays God. Essentially Alan Rickman is
27:43
Speaker 1: the voice of God because if God speaks, then Havoc
27:46
Speaker 1: is wreaked, and so Atlantis is silent the whole movie
27:51
Speaker 1: because if she opens her mouth and like people's heads explode, etcetera.
27:56
Speaker 1: And so like to talk about a spiritual image like
28:00
Speaker 1: Atlantis as God who is capable of ripping, like you know,
28:04
Speaker 1: making the fact it's heads explodes, right or not facts,
28:07
Speaker 1: but you know. And so that like wrathful thing was
28:12
Speaker 1: kind of like something that she was comfortable playing with.
28:14
Speaker 1: She was like acting the wrathful part also, And it's
28:20
Speaker 1: just funny because like Jacked Little Pill has so much
28:24
Speaker 1: more than that, and you can kind of see the
28:27
Speaker 1: story beginning of like the rest of Atlantis's career in
28:30
Speaker 1: that there's tracks like Perfect and Mary Jane, which are
28:34
Speaker 1: very somber. They actually were the most, the tracks that
28:39
Speaker 1: she performed at the concert that I connected with the most,
28:42
Speaker 1: and the ones that I felt like she still has
28:44
Speaker 1: the best relationship to where these songs about like pain
28:47
Speaker 1: and like the the the horrors of womanhood basically, and
28:52
Speaker 1: Mary Jane is so sad. In the song Mary Jane,
28:56
Speaker 1: there's this lyric where she goes, I hear your using
29:00
Speaker 1: weight again, Mary Jane, you ever wonder who you're losing
29:02
Speaker 1: it for? And when she's sang that, um, the screens
29:08
Speaker 1: flashed like different bodies that Atlantis has had, So there
29:13
Speaker 1: was like pregnant Atlantis, like depressed Atlantis, who was like
29:18
Speaker 1: larger than she usually was, like really real than Atlantis,
29:21
Speaker 1: who was like obviously like supposedly succumbing to whatever pressure
29:24
Speaker 1: from being famous or whatever. And you saw how many
29:28
Speaker 1: different sizes this person has been and you realize in
29:31
Speaker 1: that moment that she wrote that at the beginning of
29:33
Speaker 1: her career, that she continued to like interplay with this
29:37
Speaker 1: as the career went on, and she's like still feeling
29:40
Speaker 1: the things that she felt when she wrote Mary Jane
29:42
Speaker 1: performing it in one whereas like with Ironic, she's like
29:48
Speaker 1: tossing to the crowd. She'll toss the mic to the crop,
29:50
Speaker 1: be like it's like a ray. You know, you don't
29:53
Speaker 1: you don't hear her even say that part. I do
29:55
Speaker 1: want to know when, as you said, like when Jocked
29:59
Speaker 1: Little Pill came not maybe you were a little a
30:01
Speaker 1: little too young to really get it. But I have
30:04
Speaker 1: always like identified you with Atlantis and with this album specifically.
30:08
Speaker 1: Maybe that's because I know you so well. Maybe that's
30:11
Speaker 1: because like it's something that we've connected about. Um, but
30:14
Speaker 1: when did it really enter your life in a like
30:18
Speaker 1: substantial way and when did you kind of like form
30:21
Speaker 1: some selfhood around it? You want to know the damnedest thing.
30:25
Speaker 1: It's weird, so weird you should ask that Rose because
30:27
Speaker 1: my first Atlantis track was actually thank You. That was
30:31
Speaker 1: the first time that I was like, And it's because
30:35
Speaker 1: I saw that music video with her naked body and
30:38
Speaker 1: her tips covered by that fucking long long as hair,
30:42
Speaker 1: and I that that image was steered into my brain
30:46
Speaker 1: and it's just so um, I guess uncanny the way
30:50
Speaker 1: that I have like modeled my like professional life and
30:55
Speaker 1: like stage career after that image. Well, to me, it
30:59
Speaker 1: does feel so much of your right. Yeah, you are
31:01
Speaker 1: the Atlantis of drag Wow, Well, I don't even know
31:06
Speaker 1: I can drive home with this gas girl for sure. Um,
31:10
Speaker 1: it's not it's not unintentional, I guess. I mean I've
31:13
Speaker 1: always like it, appreciated her, like as a style icon.
31:18
Speaker 1: Atlantis kind of dresses like more of a pedestrian version
31:22
Speaker 1: of like natural born Killers, like Juliette Louis natural born Killers,
31:26
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about. Just like there's like
31:28
Speaker 1: a level of Americana to it, but also like very
31:31
Speaker 1: like seventies kind of like hippie hair, lots of macromay
31:36
Speaker 1: and um like flares. Atlantis wears boot cut jeans. You know.
31:40
Speaker 1: There's also like a Nancy Botwin vibe going on. There's parallel.
31:44
Speaker 1: I think there's more parallels between Nancy Botwin or by extension,
31:49
Speaker 1: Mary Louise Parker and Atlantis than someone like a Dina
31:51
Speaker 1: and Alannas. Like if we're going for great brunettes, I
31:54
Speaker 1: would put Atlantis and Mary Louise Parker together sooner. They
31:59
Speaker 1: have this enchantress quality about them. It's actually a Ryan
32:03
Speaker 1: Strait descriptive work for Mary Louise Parker the enchantress, because
32:09
Speaker 1: Mary Louise has this sort of like mccab cloud that
32:13
Speaker 1: follows her around. There's sort of this like dark figure
32:17
Speaker 1: they were behind her. It also like Kate Bushy almost
32:20
Speaker 1: kind of like where there's like this ethereality or like
32:22
Speaker 1: powerful feat kind of well, Atlantis definitely is part of
32:26
Speaker 1: that lineage of like young songwriters who were like so
32:33
Speaker 1: precocious in putting out a work that it really encapsulates
32:37
Speaker 1: who they are as an artist, very young in their career,
32:39
Speaker 1: like very much in the way that Kate bush did
32:42
Speaker 1: with Hounds of Love. And I think you even see
32:45
Speaker 1: it in people like Taylor swift Um and honestly, like
32:49
Speaker 1: Michelle Branch is a part of that. I feel like
32:52
Speaker 1: Avril is like in the legacy of like you know,
32:55
Speaker 1: it's like a you know, a completely different version, but
32:57
Speaker 1: like obviously comes from like an Atlantis Linit lineage. Well
33:00
Speaker 1: Atlantis really um. I think for our generation definitely created
33:06
Speaker 1: a mold that a lot of other artists tried to
33:11
Speaker 1: fit themselves into and very much like disrupted whatever was
33:15
Speaker 1: sort of the current pop star rock star role for
33:19
Speaker 1: women at the time. Yeah, like who was popular at
33:22
Speaker 1: the time because I'm like Liz Fair. Oh yeah, I
33:25
Speaker 1: guess it was popular at the time. Maybe not well,
33:28
Speaker 1: she was supposed to actually open for Atlantis this past
33:32
Speaker 1: summer and dropped out of the tour for some ship
33:34
Speaker 1: could not be dick out of her mouth or whatever.
33:36
Speaker 1: P J. Harvey, It's like a contemporary Cheryl Crowe, but
33:40
Speaker 1: I think Cheryl Crows maybe post Atlantis. It's like a
33:44
Speaker 1: it was a very male dominated like Grateful Dead, Um
33:47
Speaker 1: was like looping back on their careers. Like it feels
33:50
Speaker 1: like it was a very male I mean, everything is
33:51
Speaker 1: a male dominated space, but it sounds like obviously like
33:54
Speaker 1: rock like well, it's like it was Jack Jams was happening,
33:57
Speaker 1: So there's like there's like you know, kind of like
34:01
Speaker 1: an infiltration of like harder electronic technical music happening. And
34:05
Speaker 1: then also at the same time, like uh, instrumentation in
34:10
Speaker 1: music is like really Forloren and slowed down, I guess,
34:15
Speaker 1: and um Atlantis is offering us a reprieve from that
34:18
Speaker 1: and also kind of like fitting into that mold at
34:20
Speaker 1: the same time, which Jack a little pill. But I
34:23
Speaker 1: think that that a that a key differences, whereas so
34:26
Speaker 1: many artists like struggled to Um break free of their mold,
34:31
Speaker 1: like Avril was someone you just mentioned. I think a
34:34
Speaker 1: key differences, like Atlantis has had a very like truthful
34:39
Speaker 1: and authentic journey even artistically since that point, and people
34:44
Speaker 1: were more reluctant to let her. People still are reluctant
34:48
Speaker 1: to let her break free of you ought to know
34:52
Speaker 1: as a mood. Do you remember, I think this was
35:08
Speaker 1: when we were in high school. Um, the Jagged Little
35:12
Speaker 1: Pill acoustic rerelease for the anniversary. Yeah, and it was
35:18
Speaker 1: at Starbucks. At Starbucks was a Starbucks exclusive, and it's
35:24
Speaker 1: it's really great to hear the reinterpretation. I'm going to go.
35:28
Speaker 1: And I remember, like the big moment that we all
35:31
Speaker 1: talked about. It was during Ironic when she says, it's
35:35
Speaker 1: like meeting the man of your dreams and then meeting
35:37
Speaker 1: his beautiful husband. And she still does that when she yeah,
35:41
Speaker 1: she still does that, I mean, and she goes on
35:43
Speaker 1: the concert, she goes so many times she was meeting
35:47
Speaker 1: it's meeting the man in my dreams then meeting miss
35:49
Speaker 1: beautiful husband. So many times that was just like, yeah,
35:56
Speaker 1: fucking same girl. That's why it's a little more explicitly
35:59
Speaker 1: queer then that. It's just like and in the High
36:02
Speaker 1: Frield too, there's like Frankie Grande, she has Frankie Grande
36:05
Speaker 1: like interviewing her on sun red Carpet. It's just like
36:08
Speaker 1: this split second of Frankie grind going your music, Oh
36:12
Speaker 1: my god, she in it. She was a pr probably
36:17
Speaker 1: emailed ahead of times like please consider this clip for
36:20
Speaker 1: your real and um it's also if you'll remember, Atlantis
36:27
Speaker 1: was actually cast as one of the bisexual swingers that
36:31
Speaker 1: Carrie Bradshaw was her adjacent c to queerness is just
36:38
Speaker 1: like part of culture of the way that we think
36:41
Speaker 1: about and that is for those for those that don't remember,
36:44
Speaker 1: probably my favorite, one of my favorite episodes of Sex
36:47
Speaker 1: and the City and also one of the most problematic,
36:49
Speaker 1: Like it was like literally just carry like coming out
36:51
Speaker 1: as like biphobic and like literally she kisses Atlantis. There's
36:56
Speaker 1: like a moment where like it's it's the cinema of
36:59
Speaker 1: it is like is Carrie going to feel something? Is
37:02
Speaker 1: she going to be changed? Is this like this like
37:05
Speaker 1: brook It's like a big deal that she like sleps
37:07
Speaker 1: to Brooklyn or whatever. Is this like ecosystem of Brooklyn
37:10
Speaker 1: queer is going to like open her mind up and
37:12
Speaker 1: she kind of like stands up and like literally walks
37:14
Speaker 1: out without saying is that anyone by and like the
37:17
Speaker 1: narration overhead, like as she's walking down the stairs like
37:20
Speaker 1: of this like Brooklyn Warehouses, Like well, I'm a homophobe
37:23
Speaker 1: and that it's just gonna be like that, like I
37:26
Speaker 1: called me old fashioned or like whatever. Yeah, I guess
37:30
Speaker 1: it's just not for me. So what was your crazy life?
37:32
Speaker 1: Stas faggots? There's actually do we actually have a quote
37:37
Speaker 1: from her of her talking about the episode. She says,
37:40
Speaker 1: I kissed Sarah Jessica Parker. I played a lesbian and
37:43
Speaker 1: sex in the city, and I had to kiss her.
37:45
Speaker 1: I have experimented with same sex relationships in my life,
37:48
Speaker 1: but it wasn't about enjoyment with Sarah Jessica. Her character
37:52
Speaker 1: was supposed to be reluctant about getting involved, so it
37:55
Speaker 1: wasn't a passionate kiss. It was a reticent one, which
37:58
Speaker 1: is why I didn't enjoy it. So I can't imagine
38:00
Speaker 1: that Sarah Jessica Parker has very good breath. Well, Carrie
38:06
Speaker 1: was a chain smoker, Yeah right, I remember. I also
38:10
Speaker 1: remember from that episode like one of the big things
38:12
Speaker 1: that's like she's like finds out that the guy is bye.
38:14
Speaker 1: She's all like, well, like, who do you like having
38:18
Speaker 1: sex with more like men are me, you know what
38:20
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's like it's it's like everything it's
38:23
Speaker 1: so biphobic. But the guy is really hot and Atlantis
38:27
Speaker 1: looks incredible, as she always does. And I think during
38:32
Speaker 1: the nineties we think of her like that is the
38:35
Speaker 1: crystallized image of her with the long brown hair perfectly.
38:39
Speaker 1: It very much seems like she dressed herself for sex
38:41
Speaker 1: in the city too, or kind of that she kind
38:44
Speaker 1: of like I always like figured that she kind of
38:47
Speaker 1: like rode herself into it or like, you know what
38:49
Speaker 1: I mean. And it was such an event at the
38:52
Speaker 1: time that it was her in it and that Atlantis
38:57
Speaker 1: Morisset kissed Sarah Jessica Parker like that was the headline.
39:01
Speaker 1: That's what they wanted. Honestly. You are a very prolific performer, um,
39:07
Speaker 1: and I have seen you do several Atlantis numbers. You
39:11
Speaker 1: as we talked about before, did a show once called
39:14
Speaker 1: ten Thousand Spoons. Um, what are some of your favorite
39:18
Speaker 1: Atlantis numbers? I mean, maybe specifically from Jacked Little Pill
39:21
Speaker 1: to perform and why. Most recently it's been all I
39:26
Speaker 1: Really Want, the first track on the album that has
39:31
Speaker 1: been my most favorite to perform, namely the moment where
39:36
Speaker 1: she says, why are you so petrified? Her silence? Here?
39:38
Speaker 1: Can you handle this? I've gotten into the habit of
39:42
Speaker 1: breaking that number down into two tracks and ending it
39:45
Speaker 1: at that moment and kind of waiting like Frankenfurter at
39:51
Speaker 1: Antissa like hair can you handle this? And like waiting,
39:56
Speaker 1: and then giving the DJ that I like a wink
39:58
Speaker 1: to start the next track and go into did you
40:02
Speaker 1: think about your bell? That lines um and that song
40:07
Speaker 1: has so much drama to it, so much of it
40:09
Speaker 1: does you ought to know? Is the one that makes
40:12
Speaker 1: me the most money? I'll say that, I'm sure it's
40:15
Speaker 1: the same case for atlantis um. Aside from that, I
40:20
Speaker 1: perform Not the Doctor. It's the one that lyrically I
40:24
Speaker 1: can connect to what some some of the most you know,
40:27
Speaker 1: the trope of like what is the tracks relationship to womanhood?
40:31
Speaker 1: I'd say Not the Doctor is like exhaustion and so
40:36
Speaker 1: um as another as another brunette diva who's over it
40:40
Speaker 1: all the time. I love Not the Doctor to perform
40:43
Speaker 1: it all I really want I've done right through you too,
40:47
Speaker 1: But I don't know, man. I struggle with audiences and
40:51
Speaker 1: mid tempo rock numbers. You know. That's why these other
40:54
Speaker 1: tracks in the in Jagged Little Pill, like Perfect and
40:57
Speaker 1: Mary Jane just don't make great drag numbers. But it's
41:00
Speaker 1: you know, but they do make three out of however,
41:02
Speaker 1: is not bad. Yeah, they make great songs to listen
41:04
Speaker 1: to when you're really stoned at home or like on
41:08
Speaker 1: a road trip. Atlantis is amazing driving music. Um. I mean,
41:13
Speaker 1: I always think of the Ironic video with the four
41:16
Speaker 1: different versions of her in the car. Um. Did you
41:19
Speaker 1: notice that Casey Musgraves gave a little shout out to
41:22
Speaker 1: the Ironic video in her ross recent project. There's a
41:27
Speaker 1: there's a scene. I think it's Justified, right, The track
41:30
Speaker 1: on the Casey album is Justified where she's like in
41:32
Speaker 1: a car like driving it out, which is so Atlantis
41:37
Speaker 1: and so me just mean that Casey is in different seats,
41:45
Speaker 1: in the different four corners of the car, in different outfits,
41:47
Speaker 1: the way that Atlantis is in the Ironic video. Also
41:50
Speaker 1: one of the most iconic Beanies of all time, aside
41:54
Speaker 1: from Alpha Buzz to Bring it All. So many Burnett's,
41:57
Speaker 1: so many in the legacy, so many Burnettes, so few
41:59
Speaker 1: Beanie I am before we hopped on the mic. I
42:03
Speaker 1: found out that you, like me, used to be a
42:06
Speaker 1: Jesus freak, and I love that you found thank you
42:08
Speaker 1: whow you were in the church? Question said, oh yeah, definitely.
42:11
Speaker 1: What was that? Was there a dichotomy there, like when
42:14
Speaker 1: you like got into Atlantis, were you kind of like
42:17
Speaker 1: this is like anti Christian? Yeah. I I fancied myself
42:21
Speaker 1: sort of a Boheim type of figure. When I was
42:24
Speaker 1: a child, I kind of had one foot out of
42:27
Speaker 1: the church the entire you know, going back to like
42:30
Speaker 1: you know, queerness and trauma. The church for me was
42:34
Speaker 1: more than just a familial implementation. It was also eventually
42:38
Speaker 1: a hiding place for me. So there was a point
42:40
Speaker 1: at which there was this sort of tongue in cheek
42:43
Speaker 1: thing for me personally of like I'm biding my time
42:46
Speaker 1: until I am you know, I mean I would I
42:50
Speaker 1: I kind of like fancied a broader spectrum the whole time.
42:55
Speaker 1: I always I was like I knew I would move
42:56
Speaker 1: to New York, for instance. So it was the same
42:59
Speaker 1: me who like got into Atlantis that was like leaving
43:03
Speaker 1: this place to the secular. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so to speak,
43:08
Speaker 1: but um, you know, for as pious as my family
43:12
Speaker 1: was I was I did have access um to um
43:18
Speaker 1: what could be given to me by media. The Internet
43:21
Speaker 1: is what got my parents. That was where the line
43:25
Speaker 1: in the sand was drawn. Honey. They could not deal
43:27
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, no, it's something they couldn't even the
43:30
Speaker 1: I had parental controls, but like I would never I
43:33
Speaker 1: was never really allowed to use the Internet, and I
43:35
Speaker 1: had unfettered access. But you know what I do, I
43:39
Speaker 1: do have a gate a gatekeeping story tied to Atlantis gatekeeping,
43:44
Speaker 1: which is that I, as I said, Jagged Little Pill
43:47
Speaker 1: was the first CD I ever bought. I was obsessed
43:50
Speaker 1: with it. I think a lot of it was going
43:52
Speaker 1: over my head and I just like, like, I just
43:54
Speaker 1: liked the music. Um. But my mom was also obsessed
43:59
Speaker 1: with it. And I imagine that being a young mother.
44:03
Speaker 1: My mom at this point would have been in her
44:04
Speaker 1: early thirties, who like a young mother who had gotten
44:08
Speaker 1: married really early, Like I'm sure she was really feeling
44:11
Speaker 1: Jagged Little Pill. And she went to go see Atlantis
44:15
Speaker 1: in concert and I begged and begged and begged for
44:19
Speaker 1: her to take me, and she said, no, this is
44:22
Speaker 1: my night out. And I have a very vivid memory
44:26
Speaker 1: of her leaving to go to the concert and me
44:28
Speaker 1: standing at the window upstairs, like banging and crying, so
44:32
Speaker 1: sad and resentful. And now I can look back on
44:35
Speaker 1: that and be like, she needed her fucking night out
44:38
Speaker 1: so she could go scream along to You Ought to
44:41
Speaker 1: Know or like whatever song really like connected for her
44:44
Speaker 1: and leave me her like annoying kid at home. But
44:47
Speaker 1: I was so pissed for years after that. Still am
44:51
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah that's a that's a tough burn girl,
44:55
Speaker 1: But you know what, I'm glad that night. But that's
44:59
Speaker 1: like the beautiful thing about like the wrath of the
45:01
Speaker 1: album is that it can, like you get a mom,
45:03
Speaker 1: like a mom with kids can connect to the wrath
45:06
Speaker 1: in a completely different way that the eight year old
45:08
Speaker 1: or the twelve year old who listens to it doesn't
45:11
Speaker 1: understand the lyrics but connects to it. And like Michelle
45:14
Speaker 1: Branch was that person from me. And I remember listening
45:16
Speaker 1: to Hotel Paper and like are you happy now and
45:18
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, I'm so fucking angry, fuck my parents,
45:22
Speaker 1: but like I didn't really actually understand that the song
45:24
Speaker 1: was And then you listen to it retrospectively and it's
45:26
Speaker 1: completely different experience what is Are you happy now? Are
45:29
Speaker 1: are you happy now? I know, I know the song
45:31
Speaker 1: is that actually about you? Looking? It's a it's a
45:35
Speaker 1: scorned lover, Yeah, scorned exactly, It's an ex scorned lover
45:38
Speaker 1: being like, do you is this actually what you want
45:41
Speaker 1: in our relationship? Kind of? Have you engaged with the
45:57
Speaker 1: Jagged Little Hill musical at all? Um? I haven't. I've seen, um,
46:05
Speaker 1: I've seen snippets. There were a few seconds in the
46:11
Speaker 1: hype reel from the tour, and I think that was
46:14
Speaker 1: about enough for me. I understand that the main character
46:17
Speaker 1: is non binary, and I really appreciate that the NBA's
46:21
Speaker 1: get this w in this way um to be the
46:24
Speaker 1: main character in the Atlantis musical. But I don't do
46:27
Speaker 1: jukebox musicals pretty much as a rule, not even um.
46:35
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the the exceptions can be made, girl,
46:39
Speaker 1: and I'm reasonable, I'm reasonable, um, But you know, like
46:46
Speaker 1: I mean, the catalog speaks for itself. I don't know
46:49
Speaker 1: about Jagged Little Pill. And see, this is going back
46:51
Speaker 1: to what I said about the drag show, things like
46:54
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that that music makes entertaining theater in
46:57
Speaker 1: that way. I picture it be like, you know, basically
47:01
Speaker 1: like fun Home, except the music it is jagged Little Pill.
47:04
Speaker 1: It's literally that. But like, but you're still musicals do
47:09
Speaker 1: like historically suck, Like I don't know why Mulan Rouge
47:11
Speaker 1: wants so many things this year, but like when it
47:15
Speaker 1: was time, you're so fucking wrong for that. The genius
47:24
Speaker 1: in Lulan Rouge is the movie. It's the boss Lerman
47:29
Speaker 1: fantasy of it all, not to mention the nicole kidman
47:34
Speaker 1: aspect absolutely, which like obviously you're not going to duplicate
47:40
Speaker 1: that on stage. But the issue with Mulan Rouge the musical,
47:44
Speaker 1: or at least my issue with it taking home Best Musical.
47:47
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, talk about pandemic times. It's really
47:51
Speaker 1: that bad. I mean they had that was one of
47:55
Speaker 1: the first musicals I've been to that had a canned soundtrack. Yeah,
47:59
Speaker 1: they hit play on a CD and some belong to it,
48:05
Speaker 1: and that's winning Best Musical. Forget the fact that it
48:07
Speaker 1: was musical filled with So the concept with the movie
48:11
Speaker 1: of Mulan Rouge is that it's filled with mashups and
48:14
Speaker 1: re contextualizations of popular music from the previous ten twenty
48:18
Speaker 1: years at the time. So the updated Broadway version of
48:21
Speaker 1: the musical includes some of those numbers, and also is
48:26
Speaker 1: updated to include your favorites from the past ten to
48:30
Speaker 1: twenty years of the current day, including Bad Romance. That
48:35
Speaker 1: fucking song like cut Up and Dance with Me is
48:39
Speaker 1: in the musical of Mulan Rouge, the Tony winning Musical
48:43
Speaker 1: of Mulan Rouge. If you can believe that, I'm just saying,
48:46
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I had a good time, Honey, this
48:49
Speaker 1: is this was blocks away from Hello Dolly with Bette Midler.
48:55
Speaker 1: You know what I didn't. I didn't pay to see it.
48:58
Speaker 1: That's important. I would. No. I just mean, like, if
49:02
Speaker 1: we're placing it in the pantheon, sure, I get it.
49:08
Speaker 1: I don't love a jukebox musical either. You don't feel
49:11
Speaker 1: precious about the form though, No, right, no, not at all.
49:14
Speaker 1: I if I'm entertained, I'm entertained. Um. I usually like
49:19
Speaker 1: a musical that's a little bit more of a blockbuster.
49:21
Speaker 1: I'm going to see Phantom of the Opera tomorrow night,
49:23
Speaker 1: and it is my favorite musical. That's your religious upbringing. Yeah,
49:29
Speaker 1: that's that Jewish girl coming to New York City. I see,
49:32
Speaker 1: that's why you're so rent and Wicked. We're featuring, yes, Rent,
49:38
Speaker 1: not really for me, I never super connected with it,
49:42
Speaker 1: but Wicked for sure. For my sixteenth birthday, we came
49:46
Speaker 1: into New York. I saw normal Leobutts and kristin Chinois
49:49
Speaker 1: last performance. Whoa, yeah, Wicked. You know my Wicked story?
49:55
Speaker 1: What is it? It's my great curse in life. Actually
50:00
Speaker 1: it's the day I was cursed. So this is the
50:04
Speaker 1: day Charlene was cursed in terms of me being a
50:07
Speaker 1: theater consumer. Yes, um, so it is January two thousand five.
50:15
Speaker 1: Adina Menzel has announced that she's leaving Wicked. She's been
50:20
Speaker 1: doing it for three years. I am surprised by my family,
50:26
Speaker 1: who would eventually be shocked that I was a faggot
50:29
Speaker 1: with tickets to a Dena's last performance on Broadway in Wicked.
50:35
Speaker 1: This is basically your golden ticket, Charlie bucket scenario for
50:40
Speaker 1: me as a kid. Right, this is pretty much the
50:43
Speaker 1: penultimate like thing that I could have desired to experience
50:46
Speaker 1: at that time, Right, you know, it's a whole like
50:50
Speaker 1: going all the way to New York just to see
50:52
Speaker 1: Wicked situation, you know, seething jealousy from my siblings, etcetera.
50:57
Speaker 1: We arrive in New York, you like, check into the
50:59
Speaker 1: hotel and intown, et cetera. We're like having a light meal.
51:03
Speaker 1: I can't eat a thing beforehand. I'm about to you know,
51:07
Speaker 1: I have a date with Destiny, baby, you know. And
51:11
Speaker 1: suffice to say, we show up to the theater and
51:16
Speaker 1: we see the placard. At this performance, the role of
51:19
Speaker 1: Alphaba will be played by Shoshana Bean, who was in
51:22
Speaker 1: Dinas standby at the time, meaning that aDNA was going
51:26
Speaker 1: to miss her last show and Wicked. Of course we
51:29
Speaker 1: learned um as a gay community in in our youth
51:34
Speaker 1: later that evening that she had, in fact, during the
51:38
Speaker 1: matinee performance of her last day at Wicked, fallen through
51:43
Speaker 1: the trap door. At the very end of Wicked, Alphaba
51:47
Speaker 1: like melts through a trap door in the stage and
51:51
Speaker 1: the platform that she stepped onto was not there. The
51:55
Speaker 1: very last day she was in Wicked, she fell through
51:59
Speaker 1: the hole in the state agent, cracked a rib and
52:01
Speaker 1: was hospitalized. Yes, and I have to bring it all
52:09
Speaker 1: back to me, honey. I was, of course fell to
52:12
Speaker 1: my knees and webb when that happened, right, um, And
52:16
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, when Shoshana Bean ran on
52:19
Speaker 1: stage to sing the Wizard and I I crossed my
52:23
Speaker 1: arms and frowned, and my dad was like, you know,
52:26
Speaker 1: this is just a lesson in learning to be happy
52:29
Speaker 1: with what you get in life. You know, things aren't
52:31
Speaker 1: always going to go your way. Son, I'm just this side.
52:41
Speaker 1: I'm beside myself. I'm like, I remember, I was like, uh,
52:45
Speaker 1: trying to weigh pros and cons of like staying versus leaving.
52:49
Speaker 1: You know. I was like, I was like, if I leave,
52:51
Speaker 1: I don't It's not like I get to see a
52:53
Speaker 1: Dina again some day, you know, I might as well stay,
52:55
Speaker 1: and like trick myself into thinking that I just like,
52:58
Speaker 1: you know, missed the boat. So since then, most of
53:04
Speaker 1: the time that I go to Broadway, the leading lady
53:07
Speaker 1: calls out of the show. Laura B Nancy did it
53:10
Speaker 1: when I went to see My Fair Lady as recently
53:13
Speaker 1: as nineteen. Yes, I am cursed to miss the bitch
53:20
Speaker 1: singing the songs. That is devastating. Definitely. I also think that,
53:24
Speaker 1: like that's why for me, I don't get hung up
53:27
Speaker 1: on the individual performer. I'm there for the show, but
53:31
Speaker 1: I understand, girl, it's horrible. Also, did an Adida show
53:34
Speaker 1: up for the curtain call for that performance, and like
53:37
Speaker 1: a red track, a red Adida's track with a rib broken,
53:41
Speaker 1: with a rib broken, fractured, bruised. They were like, if
53:44
Speaker 1: you want to get paid for this, you better walk
53:47
Speaker 1: out there and you say you're goodbye. Another instance is
53:51
Speaker 1: Patty Lapone calling out of Sweeney Todd when I went
53:53
Speaker 1: to see it, girl, trust I went back that girl.
54:02
Speaker 1: I saw that production twice where she played the tuba.
54:05
Speaker 1: One of maybe the best theatrical performance I've ever been
54:09
Speaker 1: to she played that. Yeah, it was a It was
54:12
Speaker 1: a production of Sweeney Todd where all of the actors
54:15
Speaker 1: were also the orchestra. It was the first production of
54:18
Speaker 1: that kind. There was like a little like Sondheim revival
54:22
Speaker 1: moment at the time, and it was the actors, the
54:27
Speaker 1: players were the orchestra. And they actually did company with
54:31
Speaker 1: the same concept the next year, and that is recorded
54:35
Speaker 1: on PBS if you want to catch that. But of
54:37
Speaker 1: course the Sweeney Todd is you can only see itt
54:41
Speaker 1: Um Lincoln Center, the definitive one. Yeah. I just learned
54:45
Speaker 1: also that the production of a Little Night Music with
54:47
Speaker 1: Katherine Zena Jones and Angela Landsberry, the recording that's at
54:53
Speaker 1: the public Library for those of you who don't know.
54:55
Speaker 1: If you missed a Broadway show or you want to
54:58
Speaker 1: see the original Broadway cast of any given show, you
55:00
Speaker 1: can see that they're all taped and they're at Ligoln
55:03
Speaker 1: Center Juilliard Library. Yes, so you can't like take you that,
55:07
Speaker 1: you have to like stay there. It's basically like for
55:09
Speaker 1: academic purposes or whatever. But or like you know, gay nerds. Um,
55:14
Speaker 1: So I just learned that the production of a Little
55:16
Speaker 1: Night Music with kaven Zeta Jones they recorded on a
55:20
Speaker 1: night where the standby was for Kevin performing. Literally I
55:27
Speaker 1: was like, oh, at least I get to go see that,
55:29
Speaker 1: and you went to the Juilliard libe or did you
55:31
Speaker 1: collapse on the floor again? And it's just the curse,
55:35
Speaker 1: and I just I can accept it. I'm blessed in
55:37
Speaker 1: many ways. I have many blessings, but I have a
55:41
Speaker 1: few curses too, and that's one of them. And so
55:44
Speaker 1: I just know, I note, I know now tos reset
55:46
Speaker 1: my expectations. So like, for instance, I was delighted with
55:50
Speaker 1: surprise when Bette Midler showed up for Hello Dolly, or
55:53
Speaker 1: when Patty showed up both all three times, and I
55:56
Speaker 1: saw jips right, and you must have been delighted when
55:59
Speaker 1: Atlantis showed up at her own concert. Girl I had,
56:03
Speaker 1: I was. I was sad that Liz Fair called out
56:06
Speaker 1: replaced her with cat Powers, so I had before. I'll
56:11
Speaker 1: say that I don't feature cat Power really, but I'm
56:15
Speaker 1: glad they did it. And see they had they had
56:17
Speaker 1: Garbage opening for Atlantis. I really wanted to see them
56:21
Speaker 1: both together contemporary, would you say? So? The difference between
56:26
Speaker 1: the two and one was palpable, to say the least.
56:30
Speaker 1: There was this sort of nostalgic and past time quality
56:36
Speaker 1: to Shirley Manson's performing. There was this undeniable, like has
56:43
Speaker 1: been quality to it, you know, and she was still
56:47
Speaker 1: doing it. She was hitting the notes and singing the songs.
56:50
Speaker 1: She had this whole diet tribe before. She's sang cherry
56:53
Speaker 1: lips about how she never takes requests because requests don't
56:59
Speaker 1: acknowledge the act that the artist has put something together
57:02
Speaker 1: for you to see, and weird decide as artists, and
57:04
Speaker 1: everyone's screaming, and she's like, but I'm going to take
57:06
Speaker 1: this one request because this bitch in the front row
57:08
Speaker 1: ask for it. You see this girl, He's like basically
57:11
Speaker 1: in a bikini like Cherry fucking Loves. Do you take
57:15
Speaker 1: requests when you're performing? Um, I I take suggestions. I'll
57:23
Speaker 1: say that The thing about people suggesting a requesting drag
57:26
Speaker 1: numbers is that people are usually projecting with their suggestions
57:30
Speaker 1: of drag shows. Usually someone will suggest a number to
57:33
Speaker 1: me that they very much want to perform and drag themselves.
57:36
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, why don't you do that track?
57:40
Speaker 1: They'll send me tracks that I've never even heard, be
57:42
Speaker 1: like I see you performing this, like I see you
57:44
Speaker 1: performing this boom because I don't know that song. Well,
57:47
Speaker 1: I have a suggestion. Um. Has anyone ever suggested Atlantis? Um?
57:56
Speaker 1: There were There was a large contingency of voices trying
58:00
Speaker 1: to get me to do Atlantis at this year's bush Wig,
58:02
Speaker 1: because of the reinvigorated spirit that I had involving her,
58:07
Speaker 1: because of seeing the concert so high on psychedelics. There
58:11
Speaker 1: was this moment at the end of the concert too,
58:14
Speaker 1: where Atlantis's kids ran on stage and shot confetti cannons
58:22
Speaker 1: into the crowd. And that's the point at which I
58:25
Speaker 1: just completely lost it because it was just like such
58:30
Speaker 1: a resolution. It was such a resolution to all of
58:32
Speaker 1: the struggle that she was like singing about on stage beforehand,
58:35
Speaker 1: and like she's like, I have a rad life. I'm
58:39
Speaker 1: like touring with my family, this music that made me
58:42
Speaker 1: a ship ton of money and like gave me this
58:46
Speaker 1: really interesting life. But I love that though. That like
58:50
Speaker 1: that's to me is like that image of like the
58:53
Speaker 1: kids shooting the company cannons is like a beautiful way
58:56
Speaker 1: to like round out like where it all started and
58:59
Speaker 1: like a play pace of grief and wrath and all
59:01
Speaker 1: the different versions of like you know, the scorned woman
59:04
Speaker 1: of the woman like a womanhood and like the plights
59:07
Speaker 1: of that. But like that's beautiful and like, yeah, I
59:10
Speaker 1: can understand what I'm emotional just you describing it. I
59:14
Speaker 1: don't ever want anyone to shoot a confetti cannon at me,
59:17
Speaker 1: but that's just me. I was like far enough back,
59:19
Speaker 1: you know, like picking it out of your mouth, because
59:24
Speaker 1: that is one of the one of the rules I
59:26
Speaker 1: think at like a concert or a drag show, one
59:28
Speaker 1: of the things that you shouldn't be doing. Did you
59:30
Speaker 1: tweet about this recently? The rules for like Newby Queens
59:34
Speaker 1: not to do it shows. I'm really I'm actually proud
59:37
Speaker 1: of us because we've started implementing this into the culture.
59:42
Speaker 1: We're moving past messes as a drag community as a
59:45
Speaker 1: whole um. It's important because there's a few reasons. And
59:51
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is like drag shows that result in
59:54
Speaker 1: something that has to be cleaned up. That's what I
59:56
Speaker 1: mean by messrs is like cleaned up by someone else. Yeah,
1:00:00
Speaker 1: and there's and so for forever and ever, we were
1:00:03
Speaker 1: doing this thing where if you're making a mess, you
1:00:06
Speaker 1: laid down a tarp, which was enough incentive not to
1:00:08
Speaker 1: do it for me, because when you see the tart
1:00:10
Speaker 1: being drug out stage, just like I wonder what's gonna happen,
1:00:13
Speaker 1: Boy Wolf's gonna come out and pour milk either gonna
1:00:17
Speaker 1: be blood or milk or food or something. You know
1:00:22
Speaker 1: every time yea or a coke. You know, I'm guilty
1:00:28
Speaker 1: of it. I did it back in the day, watermelon,
1:00:32
Speaker 1: watermelon and Sun's so at the point the thing is.
1:00:39
Speaker 1: And also let's not forget the real pig heart. Yeah,
1:00:46
Speaker 1: you describe all of these to me right now, and
1:00:48
Speaker 1: then we will I need to know, Okay, Well, back
1:00:51
Speaker 1: in the olden days when I like dabbled in performance art,
1:00:56
Speaker 1: I at bush Wig one year I did a performance
1:00:58
Speaker 1: of cool for the Summer, a demilovado um in which
1:01:02
Speaker 1: I slathered myself in sunscreen and then poured the sunscreen
1:01:05
Speaker 1: on a watermelon and ate it. That was actually not
1:01:07
Speaker 1: a huge mess, and it was carpeted. It was pretty contained.
1:01:12
Speaker 1: It was a cart Why who did that? The venue
1:01:17
Speaker 1: under dunk House and then um I used to throw
1:01:20
Speaker 1: this party called Psychic um and for Psychic Snow one year.
1:01:25
Speaker 1: Part of the like ritual that we did every party,
1:01:31
Speaker 1: I bit into a cow heart. Yeah, that's very very
1:01:36
Speaker 1: There was also a psychic where we stuffed me into
1:01:38
Speaker 1: a suitcase that I go into, filled it with dirt.
1:01:44
Speaker 1: And on that note, I'm so glad we as a
1:01:47
Speaker 1: community have moved graduate because it makes it It makes
1:01:52
Speaker 1: it perilous for the drug queen after you, and it's
1:01:56
Speaker 1: inconsiderate because the bar staff or the club staff has
1:01:58
Speaker 1: to clean it up. And also the chief reason for
1:02:01
Speaker 1: you not to make a mess as a drag queen
1:02:03
Speaker 1: on stage is it has been done before, it doesn't
1:02:07
Speaker 1: look cool, and there's not really much that can be
1:02:09
Speaker 1: done with that medium anymore. Like people like when drag
1:02:15
Speaker 1: queens like bleed everywhere, like they spill something everywhere. It's
1:02:18
Speaker 1: almost like the scream that results is like a belabored scream.
1:02:22
Speaker 1: It's almost like an obligatory like she did it, so yes,
1:02:30
Speaker 1: drag babies, um cut it out rely on your goddess
1:02:35
Speaker 1: given stage presence. You heard it from Atlantis Morrisset's music,
1:02:41
Speaker 1: and you can't go wrong. We'll be back next week
1:02:49
Speaker 1: with a discussion on Obsessed, starring Beyonce and the archetype
1:02:54
Speaker 1: of them Fatale. If you will, I am actually so
1:02:59
Speaker 1: excited to talk to you about that, Rose and it
1:03:01
Speaker 1: is your first time watching it. You can tell us
1:03:03
Speaker 1: what to talk about next, whether it's a show, a book,
1:03:06
Speaker 1: a cultural phenomenon. We want to hear from you. You
1:03:09
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1:03:12
Speaker 1: three to three seven three six two six two three.
1:03:16
Speaker 1: I'm your co host, fran Torado, and you can find
1:03:19
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1:03:21
Speaker 1: and I'm Rose Damn You. You can also find me
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1:03:28
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Speaker 1: Like a virgin is I Heart Radio Production, our producers
1:03:36
Speaker 1: Phoebe Unter, the support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane,
1:03:40
Speaker 1: Chitch and Nikki Etour until next week, See you later,
1:03:44
Speaker 1: Virgins of What