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5 Ways "Smart" Devices Are Killing Your Freedom And Health · Man in America Podcast

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: For the first time ever, a major national health agency is admitting that people who get sick from wireless signals might be onto something real. So, France's Health Safety Agency, ANSI's, just opened funding into research into the actual biology behind it after decades of calling it all in people's heads. Now my guest today, she didn't need a research grant to know that. Years ago, her own body started reacting to wireless signals almost like it was a bad allergy. She couldn't sleep, she couldn't think clearly, and doctors didn't really have any answers at all.
• 0:48
  So she did something that almost no one does. She gave up her smartphone, she gave up WiFi, and eventually she gave up electricity altogether, And she moved deep into the forest with no internet at home at all. And what she found out about why our technology is built the way that it is might change the way that you look at your phone. So my guest is Shannon Rowan. She's a former photojournalist who became one of the most outspoken voices on the hidden health costs of wireless technology.
• 1:16
  After years of unexplained illnesses, she traced her symptoms back to constant exposure to cell signals and WiFi. She's since written several books, including The WiFi Refugee and her newest book, The Red Shoes, where she uses an old dark fairy tale to explain how technology can look exciting and helpful at first, but then it slowly takes control of our lives. Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Holehouse. And before we start, please hit that like button and the share button and that subscribe button.
• 1:47
  It really helps get this information out to more people. Now, one last thing, I wanna tell you about something real quickly. So one of my favorite guests, who's actually a good friend of mine, is doctor Brian Artis. He's a really, really smart guy. So he created this drink called Hydrate Complete.
• 2:03
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• 2:29
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• 2:51
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• 3:10
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• 3:23
  Just give it a try. Alright. Let's go ahead and jump into my conversation with Shannon Rowan. Shannon, it's wonderful to meet you, and I'm really looking forward to talking to you. So thank you for being here with us today.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Me too, Seth. I'm so excited to be on the show today.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you. And I have to also, before we jump in, just thank John Hamer, who I interviewed, who's the brilliant author and researcher in the falsification of history, falsification of science, huge volumes, a lot more, who you've co authored authored a book with as well, and he was the person that helped make this connection. So if John's watching, thank you, John.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Thanks, John.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: So you've got a very interesting story, and there is a lot that we're gonna be talking about. But I think it's all gonna fit under the umbrella of technology and how technology is changing mankind, how technology is harming and ultimately controlling mankind, which is an a very appropriate discussion to be having right now. But you live a very idealistic life for a lot of us where we think about we'd love to live this life where we're just truly off grid, not tied to a cell phone, not tied to social media, not tied to the Internet. And most people never come close to doing that, but you've done it. So how about we start there and just take a look at a little bit of your story and what's brought you to where you are now?
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. I, I was forced into it, but I'm happy now that it happened. It was a really tough time, several years of trying to navigate this and figure out what to do. Luckily, have a really supportive partner who's, you know, been with me the whole time, which is not what most people have.
• 5:02
  But basically, was 2014 I became what is known as electro they keep changing the name, but electromagnetic sensitivity, electrohypersensitive. But, you know, anything to make it sound like I'm the problem. I have a weird sensitivity. You know? It's some freak thing.
• 5:20
  It's not the technology's fault. It's basically poisoning, you know, poisoning from exposures to technology, the wireless in particular, where for me, my body became, like, reactive to it where it's like an allergic reaction. You know? So, like, any any kind of environmental poison, if you have enough of it, like and we can understand this with, like, chemical and I became, like, chemically sensitive. They also say, like, multiple chemical sensitivity, MCS.
• 5:46
  Right? Because that's you're just sensitive to to poison. I'm sensitive to poison. Go figure.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I don't you know?
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: What's wrong with you?
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I know. I kind of over the years, I start feeling like maybe the upgrade like, this this, you know, they're tampering with, like, human trying to modify us clearly, you know, modify nature and change it so it's something that can be more in their control. So it's like, I feel like the upgrades or whatever are just not taking, you know? My body's like, no. Right?
• 6:18
  It wants to stay natural. So anyway, I just, I went through, you know, not being able to use my cell phone anymore. I had a smartphone. I had I was like, had it I was kind of a holdout just because of the expense, not really any other reason, you know, like when it became affordable, I got one, but I didn't really have any objections to them at the time. And I was all excited about getting it, actually, you know?
• 6:40
  So I'm not, like, gonna I'm not here to, like, judge everybody and be like, how dare you? You know? You're using this stuff. I mean, I get it. Like, I was totally using it, and I never had WiFi, though.
• 6:49
  I had a cable just because I, like, you know, I didn't need the WiFi with what I was using for my computer and everything, but my neighbors had it, and I didn't know they had the router right under my bed, basically, like, you know, they had it up on a shelf, like, under my bed for a long time, and I was having insomnia, unexplained smart meters had gone in the house without my knowledge, you know, and and, like so there was that happening, and so all this was happening at once, four g rollout. So I don't know which one of those things, the, you know, culmination of this, because it is since this happened, I've started researching, like, heavily, and I have found out found all the studies, thousands and thousands and thousands of studies mostly conducted by our military for weapons research, you know, to see the biological and, like, psychological, emotional effects of radio frequencies. Right? And this is, because there are biological effects, and, you know, to say there aren't is just, like, just false. Okay?
• 7:44
  There are because because we operate with, like, electrical signaling in our brains and our hearts and our bodies and ourselves. You know, this is all cellular signaling, cellular phones, you know, cell phones. Like, this is why I think they're called this. It's, like, operating on that cellular level, so anybody can be affected. Everybody is affected, so I often like, people are like, well, know, you why am I not affected?
• 8:07
  Because I don't feel it. You think you're not feeling it, but you are affected because it alters biology, because it's a non native non native frequencies. Like, so the earth has and nature have frequencies that we're in tune with, that we resonate with, that we, you know, function well. That's why we feel good, you know, we feel really good. We we don't feel as good in nature now because nature now has cell towers.
• 8:30
  You know? Campgrounds have Wi Fi. So, like, going into nature doesn't feel like it used to, but as we, like, you know, slowly are boiled in the frog pot, it's my one of the analogies I use, we don't notice as much anymore. So we like, the new normal of health and how we feel all changes because our environment changes, and I think it's intentional. I mean, you know, hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but, you know, it's intentional because the the intent has to be there when there knowledge of the harm and knowledge of, like, decades ago and a lot of research into it, a lot of money into it, and then deciding on certain frequencies to use when you roll out communications text to the public, and you use frequencies that you know are do certain things, in particular, affecting the brain and causing, you know, brain fog, so called, dysfunction and, you know, basically, like, a zombification effect.
• 9:27
  Right? It's like you're it's like putting fluoride in the water and knowing that fluoride, you know, causes docility, and so does Wi Fi. Right? Wi Fi causes docility, also causes infertility. So everybody's affected, and I remember friends of mine who used more tech than me, who had I had like, I was in photojournalism for a long time, but I had gotten out of it, when my some of my friends stayed in it, and I was doing other I had another business, and so they were like and I was in Washington DC, so they were I had one friend with, like, two first person I ever met with two smartphones.
• 10:01
  Right? And I'd like now there's lots of people with lots of different. They're, like, holding they have four smartphones on them. I don't know, different business lines or whatever, and they're, you know, constantly and she had crazy memory problems. She didn't know why.
• 10:12
  She was just, like, having short term memory loss and brain fog, and, like, it was really upsetting to her, and none of us could figure out why. We didn't know why, but now I know why. Definitely from the cell phones, like, no doubt. So for me, it was like, it became a blessing in disguise that my use of tech was clearly hurting me, like I could feel the pain, I still feel the pain if I get anywhere near these things, I feel it. That has not gone away.
• 10:40
  I've been able to find ways of managing that better and I, you know, am a little bit more tolerant to it because I mostly spend my time away from it as much as I can. So avoidance practice has really helped me recover from a lot of this injury. So there's definitely was an injury and then the injury response and then going, what do I do? Because this is everywhere, and I'm in the soup of it, you know, and and DC was one of the worst places I found out I could deal with in terms of EMF exposure. Like, they call it the most one of the most electrically, you know, polluted cities out there, like, EMF polluted.
• 11:14
  So my partner and I first decided maybe we'll just move outside the city, and then we realized there was salt tower every half mile, and, you know, we just hadn't seen how we just hadn't hadn't noticed how quickly this all sprung up everywhere until I was looking for it. And then it was like we landed about west, and we moved to Arizona first in the desert where nobody wants to live because it's horrible, horrible weather, and, like, the desert wants to kill you, it feels like. It's like, you know, every kind of bush and plant and everything is, like, trying to kill you, and I you know? But it felt so much better there. And and, I did do a lot of recovery until the smart grid reached us, and we had to leave again.
• 11:57
  We tried to fight that, and it was the utility company forcing that on us. And then we had no none of that be when we moved there, and then also big power lines coming in. Now there's a pipeline. I mean, that whole place is completely being destroyed. It was a beautiful beautiful area, like tons of wildlife, and, so now we're out, like, at the what farther west in, you know, the mountains and off grid, and we're or Northern California.
• 12:22
  So off grid meaning no electricity. I have have electricity I'm using right now. There's a light, and I have the laptop powered, but I have a battery pack that I can even show viewers or you wanna see because it's
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Well, this is fascinating to me. So so
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: how we do this. So this is a oh, it's gonna turn off my light because I just jostled a little bit. Jackery makes these battery packs that you could power on a solar panel or, from the grid power somewhere or in your car. So you've got these different options for powering them, and they hold the then they power other things. Right?
• 13:01
  So so we have, a few of them. We have a solar panel, and so in the summer, it's great with lots of sun. It's really easy to keep them in charge. The winter, a different story. Often, we have to, like, run the car for a while, you know, with the
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: So so you don't sorry. And you mentioned right now before we started recording that you're in in a in a in a different location. You're in more of a trailer that you use for your work where you have the
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Internet. So but your main living, you don't have electricity?
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: No. No electricity. No no Internet either, which is the so when you mentioned I'm living the okay. So let's get into this because it is kinda idealistic. We're in the woods.
• 13:38
  We're there's forest land around. It did we did have to deal with fires almost destroying everything, and it destroyed a lot of the forest a few years ago. It was a beautiful forest before that. It's been really heartbreaking, and that's a whole other story, but we are still here. We're caretaking property.
• 13:54
  We don't own it. It's a huge property though, and we have a lot of privacy, and we don't the Internet doesn't even, like, reach to us yet. I mean, I don't know. It like, I don't even wanna know now with Starlink. It might, and I don't wanna even bring it there.
• 14:09
  We decided even if it could have it in the house, we don't want it. And this gets this is beyond the EMF harm. So, like, the EMF harm, you know, started change started changing our lifestyle gradually, kind of dramatically in a way for a while. I remember that first month in Arizona feeling completely socially isolated and kinda crazy. Like, it was really weird for me to, like, suddenly not be in the city and have all those conveniences and see people all the time.
• 14:35
  And, anyway, then now it's like gradually, you know, we got used to certain things. I mean, we don't have AC. We don't we don't need AC, but we don't have, you know, central heating. We have a wood stove, and we we have to prepare firewood all year. I mean, that's, like, the job main job.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Like, you Yeah.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Wood. You gather wood, and you and for a while, we didn't even have indoor plumbing. We were getting water from the creek. I mean, that was kinda crazy times. But
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Do do you how do how do you do you, have a fridge of any kind? Or do you have a No. Like a spring No. Yeah. Spring what do they call it?
• 15:08
  A spring box? I forgot these Yes. Spring.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I want ice box. I was gonna we were gonna try to do fine. We're still looking for an icebox.
• 15:17
  We use coolers. In the winter, we just have the food in the cooler outside. It's cold enough.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: It's a
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: fridge it's like fridge temp, you know, and it's fine. In the summer, we had to buy ice. Yeah. That's kind of annoying. There is a part of the property we get to use that has a fridge for part of the part of the year when the owners aren't here.
• 15:34
  So they have their part they have more they have solar too, but they have more power than we do. Right? So they have a pretty robust system. But that brings into other problems. It has an inverter.
• 15:43
  The inverter causes dirty electricity. I know a lot of people living off grid that have a are getting a lot of harm from their EMF exposures because these inverters are worse than living on grid in terms of your EMF exposure. And and dirty electricity is another problem, and it's a huge problem, and it really affects people. And I noticed some of my off grid friends that get these effects, and I'm trying to tell them, like, you're you know, look at this, and they're also using Wi Fi. And they're they have all these trappings of, like, the go off grid, and they'll be out in nature, but then they're stuck with, like, the Internet everywhere all the time and the WiFi exposures and the AMF exposures.
• 16:18
  They're not really getting away from it.
• 16:20
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• 16:45
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• 17:17
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• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I still fantasize about completely getting out off the Internet even the but I'm using it now, obviously, to promote my book. It's kind of ironic. I mean, I'm like, I have these books where I'm like, hey. This is bad for you, but here I'm using it to tell you to try to get you to read my book. You know?
• 17:59
  I'd like to follow more. I've I honestly, like, because I didn't realize so what I wanna talk about is that I didn't realize that that I understood the EMF harm, then it was all about, well, just, you know, plugging into Internet, like, getting it, like, hardwired so it's safer and, but I didn't understand the problems of the Internet itself in terms of, like, just addiction and, I mean, just addiction. Addiction. Right? And what that does and what it's doing socially and what it does to our brains and and our happiness level, you know, and productivity and and, like, you know, not living the dream and, like, wasting our time.
• 18:38
  And I I mean, not wasting your time if you're watching this,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: though. Yes. Yeah. You can watch this show. Right?
• 18:43
  And you can can you can go on Amazon to order the book. Right?
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But that's it. No. But, you know, again, I understand, like, we're all hypocrites in some level here, but we're trying and we're trying to use it as a tool. But, I did end up writing about anyway, I don't know.
• 18:59
  Maybe we'll have more questions about how we live first, but it's like, basically, you can do this, and we live and everybody's talking about, you know, energy crisis and we have to get more energy somehow. I'm like, no. You just you can use a lot less, like, a lot less. And and as they're saying this, they want us to use all these more electronics and, like, you know, digital everything and smart everything to, like, save the planet, have like, we need more energy for that to save the planet. It's just all it's all crazy.
• 19:25
  It's like, no. We just we could just back off and roll back and live more simply and be happier, but what I've noticed in terms of, having these strict boundaries around the Internet because I go up the road, like, half a mile to travel, set it up, and, you know, turn it on and turn it then turn it off again and power it. Like, I have to think about my energy uses all the time because I have to come up with that. Like, if people were doing that, they would completely cut back on their use, you know, if they had to be responsible for it. But this is more like direct living, like directly, like growing food.
• 19:59
  We grow a lot of food. You know, I've learned to, like, knit. I've learned to sew things. We've learned to build things. Like, all of this has forced us into this lifestyle where we, like, do a lot of things ourselves that, you know, it's very inconvenient in a way, but it's also really fulfilling, and it is idealistic in a lot of ways, and it is beautiful.
• 20:19
  And we and I get to spend all this time in nature, and I don't have noisy neighbors and airplane, you know, like a lot of machine noises that most people live with. But the Internet, days I have to go online, it just it it ruined it kind of can ruin my day, you know? It's just not just that it's inconvenient to go and get online, it's that what it does to me, but now I realize, like, often we can't realize things until we step back from them and do something else. Right? We wouldn't realize it until you get away from it.
• 20:48
  So it was this learning, like, getting away from it more and having less time online that I start to see how much being online affects me, like, in terms of my well-being, emotional well-being. And then I learned I also got into researching addiction in particular after all the other research I did into other topics, because I noticed that people didn't really wanna hear that EMFs harmed them. Like, you could tell them you could show them mountains of research. I can prove it to you. It's the truth.
• 21:18
  This is true. And they just you just kinda cognitive dissonance, you know, like pushing
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: it all It's almost like telling, you know, someone who's been drinking Coca Cola for twenty years and you telling them or using a microwave. Right? It's like you tell, like, hey. That's actually really bad for you to use that microwave, and they just don't really wanna hear it because there's so ingrained in their in their behavior and their habits?
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's addiction. It's like because because you're addicted, that's why you don't wanna hear it because you don't wanna change that habit because you understand some level you know that it's gonna be really painful for you to stop doing that thing because you're so dependent. Right? And there is another dependency.
• 21:55
  It's been really interesting or sneaky or, you know, diabolical that, you know, our our all these technologies now have we become dependent on as a society in terms of the, like, social the structure of everything, of of the how we do everything, commerce and socializing and travel and everything, and so there's a different kind of dependency that isn't really isn't about addiction so much. Right? It's like we're a forced dependency, but there is the addictive aspect of that. So we're not given other options. Like, and more, we're not given other options.
• 22:31
  We can't even with this whole Internet of Things craziness, right, like, can't even, we were trying to buy another battery for our this is our power. Right? And it and, and I can tolerate being around these batteries, which is a huge plus. Like, the EMF is, like, not an issue for me. And, other types we wanted to get that looked like they would be better in some way or whatever had wireless in them because so you can control it with your phone, and you can't turn it off.
• 22:58
  And it's just, like, is that gonna be like what I mean, at some point, I'm expecting it. It's very probable that I won't be able to find a a simple battery. There goes my light because I knocked it again. There we go. It's right by my foot.
• 23:13
  We're not gonna be able to find basic things we need that don't have wireless No.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: It's like everything is smart now. I mean, even when we were we were renovating our kitchen, we had to we had to find older we did for various reasons. We found older an older fridge and an older stove secondhand on Facebook Marketplace because they weren't smart. And they're just and they're very simple. And, you know, it's interesting because as you're talking, it brings me back to something I'd read.
• 23:42
  It was one of most profound things I'd read, especially at that time of my life back I read back in college, which was the Unabomber Manifesto. Right? And the Unabomber Manifesto Unabomber Manifesto, a little bit of word salad there. What that was such a profound thing to read. And what I remember him saying in that, what I recall from it, was basically it's like what you're describing is that when new technology comes out, at first, it is a luxury.
• 24:07
  It is only a certain class that can access it, and it's a convenience. And as more people become it becomes accessible to more people, then more people can use it. But then eventually, it it reaches a place where the people that don't have that new technology get left out of society. And he he was talking about, when cars came. Right?
• 24:24
  You know, be when when cars first came, it was the the, you know, the the wealthier people that could afford to have a car. They drove it, then it became more acceptable. Most people still used horses. But then after a point, it was if if you didn't have a car, you couldn't exist in society. You couldn't drive a you know, ride a horse down a highway.
• 24:41
  It's the same thing with the Internet. That, you know, same thing with cell phones, same things with computers, and email that now if you don't have those things in so many ways, it's like you're penalized, and you can't even participate in society unless you use this new technology. And anyway, I'm I'm not sure if if you've read it, but it was it was a really profound Yeah.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I've read I have. And I, I know I know you know, of course, we're not condoning his actions. Right?
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: But yeah. It but it that's why people don't read that because, like, I mean, yeah, you know, we know the story, and it's like, oh, you can't read that. That's sort of like it's almost like reading something Hitler wrote or something. Right? You don't read it.
• 25:20
  But no. It's like he understood what this what was going on, and, so did the Luddites. You know, the Luddites, and people don't even know what that means or the history of that, but I explained that in my recent book. The Luddites were reacting to the machines when they came in and took over their jobs, like, in terms of, the weaving textile industry, so weaving and knitting. It's funny to think of, like, knitters come up in arms, you know, knitters and weavers, like, actually, like, guerrilla warfare, like, going after you know, like, having these, like, so, like, a, you know, violence behavior.
• 25:57
  But they were the machine break they were breaking the machines, and they were even people died, and, you know, there were, because they understood that their livelihood, not just their livelihoods were threatened, but that was a big deal because it wasn't like they had some other job they could just do. They could just do another job. You know, you had this was about survival and feeding your family, but they understood the profound effect of the cultural shift and change that that would then entail. Right? So, going away from this hand like, making things by hand and having machines make them.
• 26:30
  So and the thing is we think of this as, well, why would you wanna do that? Actually, I am a knitter now, and it's a joyful thing to participate in. You know? Like, it's it feels good to make things yourselves and do and do these things. Like, we don't need to I mean, there's times when machines can, like, alleviate, you know, kind of tedious tasks, and, you know, that's one thing, but we should always be considering the trade off because there's always a trade off.
• 26:54
  Even, like, having a dishwasher is a trade off and and a washing machine for your clothes because you're not physically moving in those ways anymore. So, like, physical movement is so important because our we're meant to move. Our bodies need to move, and we've started to kind of forgotten that. Like, we think we don't need to move, but clearly we do and look around and see how sick people are. The obesity and the disease, like, you're not moving simply most of it's because they're just not moving.
• 27:22
  They're hardly moving. You're gonna age faster. You're gonna die sooner. You know? But you're also not gonna enjoy your body's gonna hurt more.
• 27:31
  Like, you know, you get atrophy, and it's painful to sit for long periods of time, but we've gotten used to this. So we're and and we've allowed, like, the machine to now dictate so many things. Just like you're saying, we're we're getting closed out of society. I'm noticing that increasingly having not just a cell phone or something that can can get a text message on for the verifications, you know, two step verifications, you need specifically, you need a cell phone or a specifically, you need a smartphone for a QR code. I there's several things so many ways I can't do online commerce because I don't have that, and I and I can't or I have to have an app onto the phone.
• 28:10
  I can't use the app on the computer. You know, I can't just use a computer for the Internet anymore. I also have to have a smartphone, and I and they will know I have a VoIP phone, like an Internet phone because that's I don't have a landline out here, and it knows there's some platforms that know it's a VoIP, and they won't send it even though I can receive texts, it that's not okay for them. It has to be a smartphone. Why?
• 28:33
  You know, again, why unless there's some malicious intent? I mean, there has to be malicious intent, you know, and that's unfortunately what you come back to. People don't like to think that way. They don't like to believe that there's there are monsters in the world, you know, especially ruling things and in charge, but there are, you know, and that's the reality is, like, there are really bad, evil people, and they're held up as heroes and, you know, we're that we're supposed to worship along with their tech. And technology, by the way, means knowledge of the gods, that word.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Of their gods, I guess, of certain kinds of gods that right. Yeah. That they have knowledge from
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Well, it's it's you know, and I love getting into these types of discussions because I, again, as we're, you know, kinda discussing before we started recording, you know, we both went to art school. And we both, I think, have a very creative, obviously, you know, creative jeans and creative makeup. And and that's, you know, that's my happiest place, is that whether I you know, I don't do as much anymore, but if I can do woodworking or wood carving or pottery, you know, anything like that, or even just building some garden beds, something that I get to construct and I get to I get to create. And and, you know, to me, that's almost like not to compare myself to God, but it's like we have this little kind of piece of what it would feel like to be a creator, right, where we can take an idea and turn it into something with our hands, whether it's a painting or a a new piece of furniture. And but so I really enjoy the more philosophical discussions of of, like, the broader picture of where are we at as a culture.
• 30:10
  And, you know, I was thinking as you're talking, and, you know, I think, you know, the Internet started to really take hold probably around thirty years ago or so coming into the late nineties, heading into, you know, Y two k. Because I'm like, you know, my dad had a home computer when he worked. It was a really big deal. And I remember he was like, wow. He has this email thing.
• 30:29
  And we had at that time, I it was like encyclopedia Britannica. We had one of the little discs you could put in and you could use that. It was just this amazing thing. But if you think about even life thirty or forty years ago, it it was so much more simple. And now you you're at a place where you feel like you couldn't exist without these things.
• 30:49
  So how did we survive forty years ago? I I mean, let alone before cell phones. Right? You you just would call and leave a message on someone's answering machine, and, you know, they or they would call you, or you'd you'd go buy a pay phone at the gas station if you had to let someone know when you're gonna be somewhere. And you think, gosh, how would life exist in that way?
• 31:08
  Yet, I actually think that, you know, fundamentally, think if you look at, you know, what's happening, I think that what, you know, what this is is that we're we're being pushed, we're being moved into transhumanism and and ultimately technocracy. And I think that that has been the design from the outset. I think that, you know and again, if you look at the origins of the Internet, you know, this DARPA, ARPANET, if you look in the origins of a lot of the big tech companies, they they all oftentimes point back to seed funding from NASA, from, In Q Tel, you know, CIA through, you know, DARPA, you know, DOD projects. And and and we kinda piece it all together, and then you look at people like Elon Musk and his grandfather being, you know, a technocrat, and you didn't look at some of the things that he's saying. You look at Curtis Yarvin, and you kind of piece it all together.
• 31:58
  And then you look at what's happening under the Trump administration and the rollout. And, like, wow. Why is it all a sudden these data centers are popping up everywhere? And these flock cameras, there's 100,000 and plus now. They're you know, you can it's like a Hydra.
• 32:10
  You could take down one flock camera with the Solzon, 10 more pop up. Right? Or the or 10 more Axon cameras come in to replace it. And, you know, I do think that, you know, I I tend to kinda get into thinking of, like, the bigger picture, the conspiratorial. It's like, there's no way this is just accidental.
• 32:26
  There's no way this is just the natural development of humankind. I think it's absolutely it is a we're being funneled into a technocratic system. And, while I wish that we could all do what you've done and just kind of become Luddites and and and kind of attack the grid and reject it and to get off of that. It's unfortunately, for most people, they'll never do it even if they want to. It's just it's you know, even getting rid of a smartphone and moving to a dumb phone is is difficult for most people to do.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Well, we can't even I haven't even succeeded. That's what I wanna say. It's like, I still have to go online in almost every day and almost for a couple of hours. You know? And I and I resent it more and more because I know what my day my my days where I don't go online, the comparison between the two, it's I wanna get into why.
• 33:17
  And and, yeah, you're right. The absolute if you look at, like, who's behind all this, and you can and you can research this, and I have, and I spell it out in my books all the time and, name names, you know, but also if you get beyond even the what you mentioned, I don't know if you're familiar with cybernetics and cyberneticians, but they cyberspace it's called cyberspace. The cyber means to steer in Greek. So and they called it they saw themselves as steering mankind and leading that way, and what they decided was that we they would they realized that we're so dependent on our environment, in terms of our behavior and mood and everything that if they could just alter the environment, they could alter humans and control us. So that's why it became this, like, let's make a new grid.
• 34:06
  Let's make a new they actually said matrix. We'll make a new matrix. So there's this natural matrix. We'll make a new one, and that way we can control everything and con I mean, just comes from the psychopathic, like, need to control everything. Right?
• 34:19
  And, so we're stuck inside of this, and, yeah, we don't even have there's no payphones anymore. Like, there's no option. Right? So it's taken away, and we're getting into really dangerous territory with AI now and and all the possible horrible things, that that offers even though people a lot of people just see it as a new fun tool, and it isn't, and they're not thinking through and thinking about the bigger picture and where this is going and how quickly it's going there, and it interestingly, as I pub when I published this book, The Red Shoes, last year, I just I kind of, toward the end, get into AI, thank you, and and what, you know, the danger of that and where we're going with it. And soon after that, everybody was suddenly it was AI.
• 35:02
  It was everything. It exploded, and I just kind of got you know? So it's the tip of the iceberg. I was kind of predicting some some of the what's happening, but I think what like you said, we need to create. I think some of us maybe more than others, we have that urge, but I think everybody on some level because, besides, like, the fine arts and things you get into just baking or cooking or any kind of act like that is an act of creation, and when you allow the machine to do the creative things for you, which we're allowing, like, AI to do, then I think humans start to feel like they don't matter anymore, and that's what the Internet's been kind of feeding us those messages anyway for a long time.
• 35:41
  Television has for a long time. Like, the humans are like that. Like, we're weak. We we have these emotions that are, like, problematic. You know?
• 35:50
  It's like from this alien perspective, if you think of the Body Snatcher movies and and how the the the human the aliens that came in and, you know, took over were like, well, because human they were like, human emotions are a problem. You know? They're messy. We don't have those. We don't have those problems now.
• 36:06
  We don't have emotions, so it's great. You know? And I think that's what we're seeing with, like, AI and transhumanism and the people or so called people behind all this, like, don't they think those are bad emotions to have. Like, the they see us as weak, like, have and I see that as a strength, Our our finer qualities are compassion and love and empathy, and those are the things under attack, and those are the things that we're kinda being told make us weak or, like, you know, that we need or even just the need to create the need to you know, things that we talk about that make us happy, like, is a weakness. So, you know, so we're starting to feel like we're not important and we don't matter, and that's really damaging psychologically, but it paves the way for transhumanism for, like, thinking the machine's better, thinking AI is better.
• 36:54
  And if we just hooked up to it and got the telepathy, you know, neural link, then we would be enhanced, like, because, you know, this idea that we can be enhanced by these things. Even, like, when you start with simple things like hip replacements and things, we already start to look at science as, like, better and as the new god and can repair us and fix us, and we could just get a new part. We can get an or, you know, we can replace our hearts, and soon now they're gonna be they're growing things, like, creepily, like, bio what it's called, sin biotech, you know, where, so you're gonna grow hearts for us. I don't I don't know. You know, it's just like and grow us in, like, you know, there's crazy people like Ray Kurzweil who's really psychotic, who wrote The Singularity is Near quite a while ago, and I, unfortunately, I do own a copy because I wanted to see what he wrote, and it's just, like, really crazy and horrifying.
• 37:48
  But he's saying, you know, eventually, we won't need things like hearts. Like, we won't need a skeleton. We can just grow all these things. It can be, you know, better, and, or we won't need bodies. We could be a hologram because they don't seem to understand what, like, a they don't understand what, like, a human soul is or it's just, like, foreign idea to them.
• 38:08
  They think you can, like it's just your brain and your brain function, and if they could, you know, copy that, and they're already copying. I mean, there's so much money going again, who's funding? What's where does the funding go to? This is not a natural evolutionary thing happening. This is orchestrated.
• 38:23
  It's funded, and, you know, billions of dollars going into copying digital making digital twins of human brains and then putting it in a machine and and, like, you know, to it's just it's beyond, like, the craziest sci fi stuff we grew up, you know, hearing watching. And, of course, that's another level of, like, grooming us and prepping us for what's to come. But I wanna explain why I titled the book, the red shoes.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought I wanted I wanted to ask you that. Yeah. Because that that that's a really important part of this.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: So, the story of the red shoes is, you know, people know it usually from Hans Christian Andersen of the seventeen hundreds, but, I have a different a little bit of a different telling of it that I present in the book, the first chapter, but it's basically, so there's a girl, she's an orphan, and she's living by herself in the woods, but she's pretty happy overall, and she's like, she's got her handmade life, like, she's doing everything herself. A lot of the things like we do out here ourselves, you know, but she even she made her own shoes, and she made her shoes they were red, but they were kinda like crude, you know, scraps of leather or something, and she was happy. She was really excited about them. Yeah. There's one picture right there.
• 39:39
  So she, like, made these shoes, and she was, like, you know, proud of them even though they were crude, and but, you know, one day this gilded carriage came up. So there's all this symbolism. So this gilded carriage pulls up, and there's this wealthy old part blind woman in it who says, oh, look at you, poor thing, like, let me take you home and take care of you. She has all this money. You won't have to work anymore, and this is where we're vulnerable.
• 40:03
  Like we feel often life is hard, like if you're chopping wood every day and everything, like it's it's an easy place to attack us. It's a weak, you know, vulnerability where you're just tired sometimes. You want something else somebody to do it for you. Right? And this is on so many levels, not just, like, you know, just even emotional work, like, just work in general.
• 40:21
  Right? It's like something could do it for you. Wouldn't that be great? So she she has a moment of weakness. She says, okay.
• 40:28
  Like, yeah. I'll go with you. But the minute she steps into that gilded carriage, carriage, which is like a cage, you know, it's a gilded cage, like you're in a cage. Right? She steps into the cage.
• 40:39
  She's taken away. The first thing that happens is the woman, like, she changes her gets her other clothes, you know, that she says they're better, but she burns her other clothes. She burns her shoes that she had made herself. Right? And so that hurt her.
• 40:53
  That was her fur like, the first attack against her in that sense, like, her soul self. And, she was you know, and it started the resentment, but she's like, oh, okay. She didn't even ask her. She's like, oh, they're horrible. Like, just burn them.
• 41:06
  Right? Why would you want that? You know? And so, so she's kinda made to sit there and be quiet and look pretty and not do anything. So she's isolated.
• 41:14
  She's stuck in this house. It's, you know, again, it's a cage. It's a nice looking cage, but she's in there. She's not doing anything of her own anymore. She's not in charge of her life anymore, somebody else's.
• 41:26
  And then so she's getting, like, restless. She's not feeling fulfilled even though she's felt well fed and she's well clothed, and apparently her needs are taken care of, you know, something's missing, and so she goes to, it's her communion or something at church, and they they go to get new shoes together, and they go to the shoemaker. And, the shoemaker is, like it's interesting. The characters, there's a lot of male older male figures that are, like, groomers. Right?
• 41:53
  That are, like and she you kinda, like, helping to deceive the woman who's sort of, like, symbol of her intuition, but she's part blind, so her intuition is damaged. You know? Like, her her instincts are damaged. So she's with that damaged instinct is, like, falling for the groom ring, you know, that where the man is like, yeah. Get these shoes.
• 42:13
  Like, they're these are they're red too because it reminded her what she the one she made, but they're, like, really shiny and, like and she's like, can't get these things, like, winking at her. But the man himself is like a cripple. Like, the shoemaker is is like he's an addict, like, trying to get push the drug on another addict, and he's damaged by it already. You know? So she's allowing this damaged man to, like, tell her what to do because she had doesn't have her instincts intact.
• 42:37
  Right? So she's puts the shoes on, and she feels better at first, you know, like, oh, yeah. Like, this is what I need, like, what I'm missing. And she goes to church, in these red shoes, and it's like a scandal. At first, everybody notices.
• 42:50
  Like, they're like, oh, look at the red shoes. That's crazy. Like, nobody wears, like, shiny red shoes to church, especially. And then the woman hadn't noticed she's, like, part blind, so she's like, oh, woah. What did you do?
• 43:01
  Like, okay. No. Like, you can't do that again. She puts them away somewhere, but she didn't get rid of them. But she, like, puts them hides them, but then the girl finds she wants them again.
• 43:09
  You know, she puts them on again, and then again, wears them at church. And this time over time, like, the church people don't notice anymore and don't really help nobody's really helping. They let it happen, you know, they're seeing something and they but they don't, like, intervene really, and then there's this red bearded man, so like a devil figure, who's also like a wounded soldier, which is interesting, outside the church. And he says, like tells the shoes to dance. He goes, oh, those are such nice dancing shoes.
• 43:33
  And then he plays some music, and she starts dancing. And at first, it's really fun, and and then it's, like, doesn't feel like she, like, likes dancing and, but then, over time so what happens over time, it takes a little time. It's not immediate. She'll take them off, and then she'll put them back on, and then they start to dance her, and she's not in control of them. And at first, that's exciting too until she can't take them off, and she's still dancing.
• 44:00
  And so then she's dancing so much that she dances the shoes take her through the forest. She's gone for, like, a week or so. She can't eat. She hasn't slept. You know, she's gonna die, like, because of these shoes.
• 44:14
  And, she meets another man, an executioner living in the woods. He has an his executioner's axe. She asks him to cut the shoes off for her, but it doesn't work, and so then she's just like, cut my feet off because I, you know, I'm gonna die. I can't she cuts her feet off. So then she's a cripple.
• 44:35
  She lives, but she doesn't have any feet, and she's a cripple, and she has to beg for the rest of her life. So that's brutal, you know, fairy tales. Yeah.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: It's funny because, like like, the old fairy tales were like that. They they, I was actually just talking to a buddy of mine yesterday who said, I think, that when C. S. Lewis and and Tolkien went and they watched Snow White together and they're commenting on it and they're and they they both hated Disney. And and I Tolkien especially talked about how he hated how Disney made everything so kind of simple and cartoony and fun and everything.
• 45:06
  But actually the old the old stories, they they told the children these stories. Right? The the the Grimm's fairy tales, the Hans Christian Andersen, and they were very harsh stories oftentimes. And so children were exposed at a young age. But I think it was also we now have this huge problem of delayed delayed adolescence, right, where people aren't accessing that.
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• 47:01
  All the links and information are in the description below. Am I right in understanding that you're using that story, that metaphor as the metaphor for technology, right? That the technology, the iPhone, the laptop, the smart TV, these are the red shoes. Right? That Yeah.
• 47:20
  At first are very fun, but then they actually start controlling us. And the only way to get rid of them is to kinda cut them out of ourselves.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And what's so interesting too, the stories I found of tech addiction and and how brutal it's been, know, for people. And, I mean, there was actually there are cases of boys losing their limb losing their legs. There was one, to gamers gamer's thrombosis. It's a a name for that, yeah, clinically because it's happening enough.
• 47:48
  So just the act of, like, sitting for still for so long while gaming has led to thrombosis in young people. Their 11 year old boy has his leg amputated from gaming. So real amputations happening from the tech use, like, not even that far from this story at all. But also because, yeah, we're trading this, like, handmade life that we're in control of to in getting over to technology, which is basically using us and going to harm us, you know, and so and it is. It's like and we argue it's a tool of convenience, but how convenient is it to be sick, disabled, or dead?
• 48:24
  That's what I keep you know, saying how is that convenient, really? It's not convenient what we're dealing with, and then if anything, it's like the Internet is designed and our technology is designed to waste our time, and it I mean, it is designed to waste your time. It's designed to get you using longer, user in enhancing, increasing user engagement, as it's called, at any cost, and often it's like these downward these spirals, they call it feeding the spiral is what Meta employees would call it feeding the spiral. So they know it's a downward spiral kind of feedback loop of, you know, infinite scrolling through negative, like, you know, stuff that's, like, harming kids, especially harming teens. And like I said, there's this arrested development kind of with where our and I actually tell the story of Bluebeard in the book too, which is another good one that, to explain about our injured instincts, that's getting us into this trap, and and kids are like, at one hand, they're exposed to all this crazy adult content that's really horrifying.
• 49:29
  It's horrifying for us, and they definitely shouldn't be seeing it, you know, but, and but they're still naive, and they're not, they don't have their instincts intact, so they're really getting their prime, like, prey for, you know, pedophiles and other psychopaths, like, sort of being groomed, and they're being victimized, you know, increasingly, and so we're not safer. So this whole survey idea that technology is making us safer and surveillance is safer isn't true, because the people designing it are the ones who wanna harm us, so they make it so that they can do that more easily and pretend that somehow they're making us safer. And so they don't I mean, all these controls that could have been on all these social media platforms long ago aren't haven't used them. You know? Instead, they say, oh, instead they punish the rest of us.
• 50:20
  They say, oh, to protect the kids that they could have been protecting and they're not, then it's like, well, you need to verify your age. We need to know who you are. You need to use your thumbprint so we really know who you are. We need to scan your retina so we really know who you are to keep all the kids safe, you know, and it's like, that's not keeping it's it it won't ever do it because you're not getting at the real criminals, and there's still and there's just more and more of them. And even the Internet and in this, like, access to all this horrific imagery and content is creating, like, more monsters, you know, more pedophiles, more, you know, perpetrators.
• 50:59
  So, it's we're not better off. Like, we just I don't I want people to step back and ask these questions. Like, how much of a trade off has there been? Are we doing better now? Is ours to me, like, the measure of, like, how our society is doing, like, are our children safe?
• 51:16
  That's a big one. You know? No. Are women safe? No.
• 51:20
  You know? Are, like, are we happy? Are we healthy? Are we fulfilled? No.
• 51:26
  No. No. No. Right? And it's like, is techno and the funny thing is we're still have this mindset that we just need more technology to save us from the harms technology caused instead of like, we no.
• 51:38
  We need to take responsibility and take our lives back from this and stop being the slave to the tool, you know, and and put tools in their proper place, and smart and if it says smart on it, then it's not gonna be the tool that you have control over. You know? That's just kinda how it is. But, yeah, I mean, I really, you know, it's just it's been really, like, interesting for me to see, like I said, my own addiction, like, my own, unhealthy relationship with Tex. I'm not here to try to judge everybody and say somehow I'm better.
• 52:15
  I'm just as I mean, like, even if I spend less time I mean, spending less time with it makes me see it more easily, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm still somehow stuck with this, and I still get stuck in the traps, like, when I'm online, like, that I that you know? I mean, recognizing it is one thing, you know, and that's helpful, but, I'm not totally free of it. I still have the shoes on. Maybe they're not dancing me as hard or as far or as fast as other people, but and that that's the other thing. There is technology with virtual when you get into virtual reality and all that that where you can actually put on these, shoes that dance you.
• 52:56
  You know? Like, I mean, there's actually even without the shoes, there's, like, there was some technology already ten years old that can make you dance, right, like, with radio frequency. And this is stuff that they were experimenting with in the forties and fifties, like, you know, even as far back as, like, first experiments with electricity and making frog muscles twitch. You know, I mean, we like, it can be used to to move your body, like involuntary body bodily movements. Right?
• 53:25
  I mean, this happens. So, yeah, it's it's like I just thought it was really apt metaphor in a way of trying to, like, get us to think about this differently and myself to think about it. So I explore, like, all the harm different kinds of harm. So, like, yeah, children I do have chapter really disturbing on children being harmed because of, know, predators, and accessing them because I think it's important for us to know how this works and how they do this, how easy it is for them to do it, pretend to be somebody on social media they're not, you know, and then range to meet. I mean, that's the typical thing that happens.
• 54:04
  But then your kids go missing sometimes forever. It's just it's a nightmare. I mean, I cannot imagine being a parent, and, I mean, that's the worst fear. Right? That's the worst possible thing.
• 54:13
  And, like, the fact that that, like, less than 1% of the budget goes to finding missing kids for policing, less than 1%. I mean, where where are our priorities? How is that possible that that's there's no money put into this to help to find kids. Like, it's just unbelievable, really. So, yeah.
• 54:36
  I don't know if you wanna comment on any of that.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, no. I'm just there's just a lot of things I'm thinking. Obviously, you know, you're kinda listening and putting ourselves into your shoes in in this or your shoes. There's this one. Yeah.
• 54:47
  Putting your red shoes on. Yeah. And just seeing this and what I'm thinking, you know, because so there's the the boiling of the frog analogy which you used. And but also then how that relates to your sensitivity. So, my wife is she's very chemically sensitive.
• 55:04
  Also sensitive to electricity and and those things as well. Much more the chemical thing. Like, if we if, like, if we go stay in an Airbnb, we have to bring our own sheets because if they use any kind of chemical fragrance, she will have a coughing fit. Like, she can't, you know, she just can't deal with it. And and it kind of exists there if we walk into a restaurant.
• 55:26
  If they've got a little Febreze air freshener, like, I'll actually walk up and pull it out. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, she she or or we'll have to go somewhere else.
• 55:33
  And and it seems like, oh, well, maybe she has a weak immune system or there's weaknesses. But, actually, it's I I actually think that well, it's like, why would you consider that a weakness if her if the re if her body is much more quick to tell her that you're near a poison? Is that a weakness? And I think that it's because well, there's various reasons maybe in her case, but I think in general that somewhere to the boiling of the frog, that because we were many of us were born into this technology and we've been around it so much, you know, the human body is amazingly resilient. And in the same way that if I moved to Africa in a couple of years, you'd look at me and I'd be very dark in my complexion because my body would be reacting to its environment and changing my own biology to make sure I can sustain that.
• 56:21
  So, I think that we've adapted to this modern world, but I imagine what if we took somebody from, say, 1,900 and we brought them to our world? They would they they probably would die in a couple of years from everything that's happening. And I think so that for a lot of us, we just don't realize that we're in the boiling water, basically. Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't mean there's no boiling water because we don't feel it.
• 56:48
  It's just because we're not aware of it and because we're conditioned to it. And that's a that's not a good place to be. I hate to put it very lightly.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Your defense is you're right. I mean, some some researchers and scientists see it as a good thing like your wife and what I experienced where it's, like, actually a normal biological response to everybody else's abnormal. Ali Johansson, who's a, EMF researcher, who's a scientist who's been doing, you know, decades of research into this sees it that way. He sees it as everybody else is the having the problem.
• 57:23
  They're having abnormal response. Like, they're not they're desensitized. You know, is it am I sense am I too sensitive, or are you desensitized kind of question. Right? And which one is better?
• 57:34
  Right? I mean, yeah, it feels better to be desensitized in a world that's bombarding you with poisons all the time. I mean, on on a, like, just superficial level of like, okay, yeah, I'd rather be desensitized, and that's why people turn to drugs. I mean, drug use is so high because people do want to numb themselves to the pain of being in this modern world because it's painful, and I often think of a time traveler too. I have often thought if you took a person from a different time before this, and they would feel it.
• 58:02
  They would there's there's no doubt. They would feel it. Right? Because you just you weren't being slowly boiled. Like, you're just going from, like, none of this to and even if you and you can do this yourself sort of.
• 58:14
  I mean, it's harder and harder, but if you take yourself out of it, if you find somewhere pristine as you can and you allow your body to calm down and and relax, you will come back into it and you'll feel it. You'll feel it more, and this is true for my partner. He was not sensitive. He is now because he notices, because he's away from it. He hates it.
• 58:35
  He hates how it feels. You know? But he doesn't maybe have yes. Okay. There's a couple things going on.
• 58:40
  Yes. There could be a a weakness in terms of, well, I was poisoned more for longer, and now my body is, like, not as able to handle this. And there is some research showing that that's true, and that's why I'm like, okay. I gotta protect myself because I'm it's more harmful it is more harmful for me in my condition to be exposed than somebody else, at least in the immediate term, but not necessarily again, because I don't think we're adapting really. So first of all, if we adapt, I think there are micro adaptions.
• 59:09
  I don't agree with, like, Darwinian adaptation theory, you know, evolutionary theory, But, like, there's some evidence of, like, smaller adaptations we make.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I I agree. It's I I yeah. It's like that you'll see that that I I I don't believe in the theory of evolution, but I do believe that Yeah. That species can evolve in a response to prolonged prolonged exposure to a certain environment. Right.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: But you don't, like, change into another species.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna turn into a bird at some point. You know, like but yeah. So there are those things happening, but that does take time. And so, like, when you have this tech this huge change so rapidly that we're undergoing now, you even if whatever kind of theory you believe in or don't, like, that can't happen in that time period. So what's happening instead of an adaptation is a compensation, so there are compensations happening.
• 1:00:01
  So and I feel it myself. When I go into town, I'll first feel that pressure from all the EMFs and everything, but then and I'm better at compensating now cause I got enough relief and my body's recovered enough that I do compensate better. I start to feel like I'm fine. Actually, now and I couldn't say that ten years ago when I was dealing with this. I would absolutely not be fine in town for any length of time, but now I'll go and I'll be around some of this, and I'll be like, yeah.
• 1:00:25
  I don't really I feel like I'm fine, and it's a different because I'm in the new normal of, like, how that feels. And then I come back, and I go, oh, yeah. This is better. Like, okay. You know?
• 1:00:36
  And I was compensating, and then I have to recover. So I have a place to recover. I think if other people had places to recover from their exposures, they'd realize that they need to recover and that they and they you know, but they don't have the opportunity, unfortunately. So that just ends up being cancer, you know, ends up being something else because all that time you're making compensation, some things you're giving up something, like, so some process in your body that needs to be happening isn't because it's like, okay. Just like I like to give the analogy of if you were in a really, really cold place and, you know, in order to not die, your body puts all the heat goes in, you know, to the core.
• 1:01:14
  Right? And so that means your extremities are vulnerable, but your body is like, well, we could give up some fingers and toes, I guess, but we can't we can't we gotta protect the heart and the lungs and everything. Right? So in that compensation, you trade off something, and that could be your toes. Like, you get frostbite, but you're alive.
• 1:01:36
  Right? So that's what's happening to that's what's happening all the time now. It's like so something something that you should be happening isn't because of all the defenses are going to, like, protect you from these exposures as much as they can. But there's only so much of that you can do. So you're constantly, like, battling.
• 1:01:53
  Like, you're constantly, like, having people don't realize they're going to work. They're going into town. They're in their homes, and they're watching TV, and they just think they're being entertained, they're trying to survive. You know, your body's like, I'm trying to survive this, but it can feel, it's a stimulus. So there's a stimulus addiction, and as and this and it's like the red shoes in this way too where that constant dancing, you know, and that constant stimulation, when you stop it, it feels bad because you crash.
• 1:02:22
  Right? And so you want then you want it again. It's like because the adrenals get affected in this process, and most of us have, like, some adrenal, you know, comp like, exhaustion of some kind or or compromised adrenal function. And so then we're like, oh, yeah. I need my coffee or something.
• 1:02:39
  Like, we need something to keep us get us up in the morning. Most people don't wake up with energy, which people used to. You know? Even in my own lifetime, I remember doing that, and I don't really have that now. You know, I don't I don't use stimulants because I know how I can't really handle that, but, but I do like kinda reach for the herbal teas that might be slightly more stimulating in the morning, you know, even just nettles, Like, I'll have nettles in the morning to help me, but, I mean, I have a place where I can sleep pretty well.
• 1:03:10
  Most people don't have that, and I'm but it's still not pristine because there's satellites. You know, there's no place anymore where we get to feel like what people used to feel like, and and so we're not as strong. We're missing out on we're missing out on, like, that feeling of feeling a lot really alive and really energetic and and waking up refreshed, and, unfortunately, I don't think people experience that anymore. Like, and kids don't even have to experience it, which is really sad.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: And, I mean, it reminds me a lot of, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, which I think kind of details a lot of this. Just, you know, people overwhelmed and distracted. And I think that that's you mentioned a couple of different things. You know, one of the people using drugs to escape. Right?
• 1:03:56
  You know, or using television. And I and I think that, or using darkness to escape. But I think that, you know, it's like if you're looking objectively at just the state of humankind, I feel like most people just have this sense that whether they're aware of it or maybe it's something deep inside, but just that something is really off, especially since COVID. Right? Especially since COVID, that that the world has changed in some sort of very, very fundamental way.
• 1:04:28
  And, not only is it, you know, in inflation and, you know, that just to survive in America and to raise a family, people having to work multiple jobs just to get by. Just but this the the the stress of it, the the damage of social media, the damage of on demand, you know, TV. Because I'm you know, going growing up, if we wanted to watch a movie Friday night, we'd go to the local, you know, local, not even a block, not even a chain Blockbuster. This is the local video shop that was in just this small little area in our small little town. And you'd go and you'd you'd pick out your VHS tape, and you'd pick it and you'd go and it was very exciting.
• 1:05:05
  So it just seems that, you know, that I think that there's just this sense that I think a lot of people have that there's something just fundamentally wrong with the world. And I think that a lot of us are seeking, and I think a lot of people just numb it. You know, they numb it through addictions. They numb it through television or getting obsessed with different hobbies or sports obsessions or these things that I think are all intentional. Again, know, silent weapons and quiet wars, it's it's very obvious they want people to be busy, distracted, not paying attention so that no one actually is able to step back and and say, hey.
• 1:05:41
  Woah. We're all in some, like, water that's, like, at 200 degrees. Like, it's gonna be boiling soon, and we're all gonna be dead. They don't want people to play that role. But, yeah, I I mean, I mean, I do think that there's some there there has to be some sort of breaking point.
• 1:05:56
  Right? There has to be some sort of, kind of peak where where something has to change, because I think that if we just continue down this path, it's just as destruction. Destruction. And I don't believe that mankind is slated for destruction. I just don't believe that.
• 1:06:10
  I think that there's a much higher purpose to why we're here and what's happening on this earth and what what's happening in a battle of good versus evil. And, so it's it's it's interesting hearing your perspective of, you know, what you've done. Even people that have gone on, say, dopamine detoxes, right? They've gone and they've gone to some place out in the woods for two weeks where there's no technology, no social media, and it resets all of their their glands and, you know, not to, like, the the base it needs to be, but just helps that. But I think that, yeah, that that there there definitely is, and I I sense it too.
• 1:06:45
  Even the interactions you have while going out to the grocery store or, you know, seeing you know, go to a local park. The the world is just yeah. The world's changed, and and it's Because it's unsettled.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: And one of one of the changes, I think, you won't notice until you see it happening because you don't see it as much is, the silence on the streets of kids not playing outside.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: You know, kid children noises, yelling, screaming, laughing. You know, it's quiet. It's weird, you know, and the kids are just on their when they're together, they're on their screens, and that's horrible. And that so when I occasionally, I've seen it, and I go, oh, yeah. That's that's what it was like.
• 1:07:28
  I forgot. We'll forget. You know? And that's another thing where, I mean, under attack is our memory, and that's a huge effect of technology, which is really convenient for if if you look at this politically, you know, how short term people's, you know, memory seems to be with politicians, like, because they say one thing, they get in office, they do something else, and everybody forgot. I'm like, how did you forget that?
• 1:07:51
  But that's happening on this on this whole other scale, and it's very convenient for controllers to and and it happens in politics because politicians are, like, wizards. They're, like, really good at mind control speeches and stuff and, like, the, you know, the illusionist and, like, look over here, look over here thing tactics. And so it's on that level of distraction. Like, I mean, that's the main issue with just the design of the Internet is to be distracting you, and we're addicted to we're addicted in so many different ways, and we're addicted to novelty, so, and new information. We want new information.
• 1:08:27
  Again, it is the dopamine hit thing that's going on for sure, and the reason that's a problem, because dopamine itself isn't a problem. Dopamine coming at you constantly is a problem and so easily, and it's really because of not efforting. So, like, when you get something without effort, you get dopamine if you get dopamine hits after you've worked on something you carved or sculpted or whatever, took a long time, and then you finished it, then that's great because it's, you have all these other chemicals that balance it. So and it's happened after sustained effort. Your body's moving too.
• 1:09:02
  When you're getting, we've never before had dopamine hits like this coming at us all the time so easily. Just never happened. We don't I don't think anybody knows what the real effects are or what's gonna happen. We're we're being experimented on, you know, just with everything, and I think there's definitely the transhuman experiment is like, yeah, like, inject us with technology. I mean, it does feel like, well, some of us will just die out because we can't survive in this new world because it's so altered, and and our bodies aren't we're rejecting the technology or, you know, that's injected into us, whatever, and it will be like the Native American tribes who were wiped out by colonialists who changed everything, you know, and their way of life wasn't sustainable.
• 1:09:48
  It wasn't an option anymore. It wasn't it's not. It's not an option to be a hunter gatherer. You know, the environment doesn't sustain it. There's not enough food to do it that way, right, because of, big agriculture.
• 1:10:02
  So so there's all these, and it's depressing to think of it that way, like it's these things we don't have control over, but I think if we're more aware of them, we will have more control, like if we say no, if we stop consenting to everything, if we start doing things ourselves again, you know, it's not like they won't try to stop us from doing that, and I think a lot of the weather manipulation is very much geared at, like, the small farmer in the homesteader, you know, to not be able to grow their own food, but it doesn't mean we don't try. And, I mean, you know, things like greenhouses can help and, you know, like, we can we can kinda think of our it become innovative ourselves. You know? It's like we're always being told technology is so it's all the innovators. They're so innovative, so creative and innovative.
• 1:10:49
  But, like, what about our own ingenuity and innovation, like, that from, you know, humanity, like, not machine made. And I think, again, like, the danger with the AI, there's so many hazards and dangers there, and I think, it's best not to engage with it if we can help it, like, but that's being forced on it. I wasn't engaging with it at all. I didn't choose to, and now to continue in any online shopping, which I end up forced into because shops won't carry things I need because I can't get them in the stores. They say you have to go online.
• 1:11:20
  So it's not even like, oh, because I live off grid, I'm far away from shops, which, yeah, does kind of push me into more online shopping, which ironically, like, I end up dependent on this thing by being away more away from society. But just for anybody, like, oh, no. That's an online thing. You have to go online. You have to go online for that.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: The thing that makes me really upset is is post COVID, a lot of restaurants now, you go in there, the menu, is this a QR code? QR. And, like, I was I stayed at a hotel recently because I I took my girls on a trip, to go home to see their grandmother and my mom. And the we wanna get some breakfast in the morning, and I wanted to kinda it was exciting. I have a two year old and a five year old.
• 1:11:57
  It's just really exciting adventure for them. And I was getting room service breakfast, which is, you know, to them, it was this fascinating thing that they'll wheel a cart of fresh pancakes in. Right? Yeah. But the the menu to access the menu, there's not even a menu in the in the room.
• 1:12:09
  It has a QR code. And it's like and, of course, I still ordered it, and I went through it, but, like Yeah. That really angers me. It's like, how dare you force me to use my phone to access your menu, which should be on just a nice little printed laminated piece of paper in the room.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Which this whole germ thing was ridiculous too.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: I mean,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming that, but that's what what the excuse was, which is stupid because if it's laminated, just spray it with something or whatever. You know? Like, why is that different? And you're still touching the QR code thing that I mean, I guess
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: that sitting at the table. You're still using the the silverware.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, it's just getting rid of the menu. Like, that's doesn't even if you believe in the germ and the viral theory thing, that doesn't make any sense.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: And it isn't to force you. It's another way intentionally to force you into using this. Yeah. And even if you want don't wanna believe it's malicious, you can people will see it, and this is still malicious, on the the aspect of, profit. Well, yeah, I mean, we want to make more we want more people to use our products, you know, just on that level, so we're gonna make them, you know, and that's happened that's always happened where the government and industry collude to make profits for each other because they're all friends with each other and they're gonna get their businesses to do well.
• 1:13:27
  So even if you don't think it's like there's a transhuman agenda or some other enslavement of humanity agenda, it's still pretty nefarious to, you know, realize that, like, it's about, well, they want their products sold, and they don't care if those products harm people, they want to make the money from it. So on that just basic greed over everything else, you know, profit over people level, that's what's happening. So you don't have options because you have to use this technology now. And even for, like, during the pandemic, it was the contact tracing apps, and you need to have this to travel and forcing you to have it I haven't traveled. I haven't been on a plane in over ten years.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: Good for you. Because
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: which I mean, well, admit I mean, I want honestly, I'd like to travel. I just can't. Like, I'm locked out of that because of just from the Wi Fi. I was locked out already before COVID because of Wi Fi and chemicals, perfumes. Going on planes kind of, like, the worst place I could be
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: For all those things, And so I've avoided it. I mean, I would maybe I'll do it one day. I'll feel feel, like, strong and and often up to it and hopefully won't, you know, have a heart attack or something on it. But, like, but then it's just even like, okay. If I go where place I wanna go, where can I stay?
• 1:14:41
  It's I can't even stay in the Airbnb unless they turn off the Wi Fi, and I don't have that stuff around me because I can't sleep. That was the main the very main thing for us that made us, like, have to move and have to be somewhere is I I could not sleep. I still cannot sleep when there are sick these signals going on. Wakes me up all night. Ping it, like, pings me all night, you know, and I'm not the only person who experiences that.
• 1:15:04
  So I and I'm going for years with dealing with that and then having it get worse. It's like it's insane making. I go turn into an absolute crazy person after not having a couple a couple nights like that, you know. I'm I'm just destroyed. So so it's like survival for me.
• 1:15:20
  And and so where when I've traveled at all, it's been in the car and camping somewhere where I can find wilderness camping, not a campground, and that's the only travel I've been able to do. And I was a world traveler. Like, I traveled all over the I lived abroad. I traveled all over the world. I loved that, and that was taken away from me.
• 1:15:36
  So when I saw that happen with the pandemic and nobody was traveling and stuff, I didn't I wasn't sitting there going, oh, good. Everybody else gets to feel what I feel. Like, I thought felt terrible for everybody. I don't wanna wish the sun people. I don't wanna wish, like, forced isolation.
• 1:15:52
  But at the same time, I was we were really set up in a good position to live the way we were. We our lives weren't changed at all from it. We we were living on a different piece of land that was a 150 acres and lots of land around that, and I just did a I went hiking every day like I always had, and I didn't go to town because I didn't usually go to town anyway. And, you know, I go very just for necessity and once I'm shopping, and that was kinda my life already. And, so it was interesting that our lie our lifestyle was exactly the same through all that.
• 1:16:25
  But we were so much freer than people in a city where they were stuck inside in a small room. I mean, you couldn't I'm not somebody I couldn't handle that. If you put me if I had to be indoors, I can't I don't think I've ever spent I don't know when I've ever spent, like, a full day inside in my life or, like, hardly at all. You know? There I had to be very, very sick, and then it would be, like, not more than a couple days.
• 1:16:50
  I've I'd be indoors the whole day. But to be, like, not just indoors, but in a hotel room, you know, people would travel and had to wait two weeks in a hotel room
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, right.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. For quarantine.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Well, so I grew up in the country, you know, and and grew up surrounded by, you know, farm fields. And now now I look back and think, oh, gosh. Those, you know, monocrop, you know, glyphosate fields. It's like, okay. And after college, moved to New York City.
• 1:17:16
  And and so I lived in a 600 square foot apartment on 5th Avenue for, you know, close to a decade. And it got to a point where I was just losing it, and I had to get out. I had to leave. And so now, you know, now we you know, my wife and I, we live out in the country. We're on seven acres.
• 1:17:32
  We're surrounded by forests. We have, our two little girls, they go outside. They go outside whenever they want to. Even in the winter, I'll look out. So I was like, man, my five year old's out there just in her underwear with a pair of snow boots on, you know, running around, you know, seeing what's going on out in the winter.
• 1:17:47
  Right? And because, you know, we're we're we're in a very private area. We've got a gate. We have a long driveway with a gate on it, so no one can even come onto our property. And it's it's a obviously you know, it's a balance, right?
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: We have
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of technology to do what I'm doing and everything. But it's definitely, it's a much more wonderful way of living. Much more human. And so, you know, for people that are watching or listening, what's some advice that you can give them? Like, if if if they wanna start making some changes, what would you tell someone that says, gosh, I this this discussion really resonated with me, but I'm stuck in a suburb.
• 1:18:25
  I I you know, it's it's really difficult. What what are some things that people can do to start to move their lives back to Yeah. Kind of like how you're living?
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, what we're like I was saying, like, don't know what you don't know that you're being harmed or under you won't understand it till you really get away from it, and you won't and and I don't just mean the physical EMF, is definitely part of it, but, like, the psychological components of this that how it changes your brain, how it produces anxiety. So I definitely recommend just baby steps starting tech breaks, you know, like, just getting just getting off of I mean, the antidote here to this problem is less tech, not more tech. So you have to remember the antidote is just going back doing it, like, and dedicating yourself to doing that, and it and it a lot of it's about self care, and that's why I still like this red shoe story. Like, the girl in it, she was caring for herself in the beginning, and like any addiction, what do we see with addictions?
• 1:19:23
  What happens is you neglect self care. Right? So people it could be little things, but it adds up, like you're not cleaning your house as much as you would be. You let things go, you just let it go a little longer, leave the dishes a little longer, but those things affect you psychologically too, like having your place messy and disorganized, that becomes stressful. But you maybe you're not cleaning yourself enough, like you're not taking showers, maybe you're not exercising, you're not eating you you forget to eat a meal, and that continues, and that's what any addiction we see this in pronounced cases with drug addictions, alcohol addictions, you say, yeah, that's horrible, you know, and we can also point with tech addiction, we tend to go, oh, the gamers.
• 1:20:04
  Yeah. Like, they're really bad off. I know somebody, but you don't see it with yourself, and, again, with any addiction, like, the addict doesn't see it, and you need to see it in yourself before you're pointing your finger at everybody else just because they look worse off than you. How is it affecting your life? How could your life be better?
• 1:20:20
  How could you take get better care of yourself? In my last chapter in my book, I lay out several different things you can do. Definitely start with, like, and this is somebody else's research that says, and I like this one to start off with because it's easier to remember, but, like, an hour away from tech each day a day per week and a week per year. A week per year might be harder for people, but at least you could start with the day one day off per week where no I mean, just none of you know, at least, like, maybe you wanna still watch a movie in the evening, you know, or something, but, like, just turn off the Internet and the phone. You know, just get away from it.
• 1:21:00
  Try to take a whole day, a break at least from whatever the problem is for you, like your smartphone or just the Internet, you know, take a break from that. Like, it a long enough time to feel the difference, and because you are gonna go through withdrawal, and it's gonna feel painful at first, so you wanna give enough time that you get to go through that and then feel the benefit. So I would even try I try to do two days a week. Again, I mean, yeah, every day I'm outside and away from tech most of the time, but for me, it's still a problem to get on the Internet because I see my own my own problem is, like, multitasking addiction and, like, online shopping stuff, so that stuff really pulls me in, and it gives me it changes my brain, and I get into how your brain gets changed, and so what happens is you it's that high speed kind of fast paced browsing, hyper browsing, and then you go to try to just go in your garden and do some weeding and it's like a painful transition because you're you're speeded up in your brain processing, and then you have to slow it down.
• 1:22:01
  And so a lot of us that on that level, I think everybody experiences that, and you're gonna all that stimulation and all the, you know, kinda distracted, like, browsing and and text coming in, and you're emailing, and you're doing all these different things. And so it's gonna feel hard, and this is where we have problems with patients and children especially dealing with them. Well, the children themselves have been hyperactive and impatient, but the parents dealing with the children having a short fuse and having a hard time, you know, so we're it's affecting our relationships because, like, we're short-tempered and we don't understand why, and so we're off our drug at the moment and we can also we just can't process that time the time operates differently. So what I want people to experience is how time operates differently, like how you can have a really nice long slow paced day that you can relax into when you don't have to go online and you don't have to use your phone, and you can spend that however you want, but I definitely recommend at least an hour a day. If you can't do an hour a day away from your technology, you know, you gotta question why and see that there's a problem there and this has gotten out of control because we don't have boundaries anymore over our work and our free time, you know, and this is like you know, because, of course, again, we're told, oh, this is a convenience, and it's helping you to be you can do your workout while you're in nature or, like, you can do it anywhere, but then you're expected to do it everywhere.
• 1:23:25
  You're expected to answer everywhere. So the other thing you can do is change expectations for other people you interact with. Change your expectations. So tell them, I'm taking these breaks for myself. Like, give your give yourself office hours.
• 1:23:39
  You know, if you work from home like I do or whatever, like, say, like, here's my office hours where I can be reached. Otherwise, I'm I'm unplugging. I'm gonna unplug for myself and for my family and set that precedent and that standard and, like and maybe other people go, oh, that's a good idea. Know? Because most people, when I tell them, like, how I live and I don't have the Internet at the home, they go, oh, that sounds really nice.
• 1:24:01
  Like, that's the response I get now. People feel that they're this is harming them. They don't want it all the time.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: It shows you the the shift in people's thinking. They'd Like, recognize ten years ago, they would have been like, oh, that you're kinda weird. Way you a Luddite. Yeah. Right?
• 1:24:13
  If they're familiar with the term. Right? But now it's it's yeah. You're right, though. I I think that people are now it's idealistic.
• 1:24:20
  Right? Like, oh, that that would be wonderful. Right?
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: Sounds great.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. One thing is if if I could add just in terms of something that I've tried to do myself is try to spend a little bit of time each week creating something with your hands, whether it's gardening and and and planting, whether you know, for Christmas this past year, my wife got me a wood carving set because I had a whittling knives. And I remember, like, the first night I sat down, I said, I was up till three or four in the morning. I carved a little wooden bear, right, out of a piece of wood.
• 1:24:48
  And it was just like, it was the most wonderful thing for me to be able to do that. And that's so whether it's knitting, you know you know, learning how to knit, you know, cooking is also good. But, yeah, doing tactile things where you're you're you're creating.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: That's important because what we're having is a sensory overload of audio and visual stimulus when we're on our tech. But we we're lacking is other kinds of sensory input. And so we're actually sensory deprived.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: Like you're watching a TikTok video of someone gardening, but your body's doing nothing while you're watching it.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And you're so people are missing experience with, like, their other so there's all these different especially for kids and milestones and, you know, and and it it matters in terms of growth and everything and, in terms of, like, other kinds of movement, and so tactile sensory input is really important, but also moving your body in different ways that we don't like swinging and, so the proprioceptive vestibular system. The vestibular system is like has to do with your ears and balance, and, you know, a lot of people might be having problems with balance now and, like so we're having problems, like, navigating our physical world because of technology. Right? So not just because you're texting and you trip over something, but because, like, literally, you're missing, like, your, peripheral vision's getting harmed, like, you're not using it anymore.
• 1:26:08
  Right? So you lose it and you become, like, tunnel vision, which makes you more vulnerable in the world. But, like, yeah, balance. So, like, your balance, you need to do things like even as an adult, but children especially, but, like, children, you know, we used to roll and roll down hills and spin
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: Climb trees. Climbing
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: and pull, tug of war. So tug of war stuff is proprioceptive system would be like heavy lifting things like pulling, pushing, and that helps you go to sleep at night. Like, so if you wanna do some push ups at night or something like or rowing machine or something like where you are lifting, you know, like weights that helps you sleep. But if you're running, like, and, you know, that you're getting your heart rate up, then you're gonna get hyper, and that's not good for going to bed at night. But, yeah, all these things we used to do in the physical world that in different kinds of but the tactile thing is so important too, and I recently started getting into sculpting again.
• 1:27:03
  So I used to sculpt, and now I'm making little figures with clay. And, yeah, it's like it's fresh at first, it's really frustrating, but then you start to enjoy it. And I think that frustration and and for me with painting too, like, it's frustrating when I haven't done it in a while. And and we kind of, like, are shying away from things. This is the other thing.
• 1:27:22
  We're we're so used to things being done for us. We shy away from, like, the growing pains of something being frustrating, you know, undertaking that thing. And I think, like, to challenge the listeners to try to push through that pain of, like, something being hard to do, feeling hard to do. Right? And and letting yourself go that be okay to have a challenge and to feel hard to do.
• 1:27:44
  Right? Like, we're let's that's okay. That's normal. But, like, also things like med a meditation practice can be really helpful too, just to get the stimulus, to calm it down, you know. But again, it's not it's a certain kind of stimulus, and it's very it's actually like a really narrow it's just like the like I said, audit or auditory and visual.
• 1:28:06
  It's like that kind of stimulus, but it's not even like it's a two d visual. Right? So you're missing out on the three d world around you. Recently, I went to really a natural spot for my birthday with my partner, and we were at this mouth of a river where it meets the ocean, and as the salmon fishing started, there were people fishing. There were the seals.
• 1:28:23
  I love seals, so, like, that's my art main, like, muse for art. So I photograph and paint them and do sculptures. And so I was I was in seventh heaven because I'm, like, taking there's always seal action. It was, like, amazing, but it was, all these waves are, like they got fish in their mouth. There were sea lions barking, and it was, like and I remember my partner going, this is so over crazy overwhelming.
• 1:28:45
  The sensory input was unbelievable. Like, it was, like, just a wild day out and the waves, and it was like, and he's like, is this every this is how they live every day. They have this you're thinking about the wild animals. Like, this is their life every day. They're like, it's exciting.
• 1:29:00
  And I think we're missed. Like, we want things to be exciting in a way, so we turn to the screen to excite us. Right? Like, to watch this exciting movie. Why don't go out and live an exciting adventurous life and feel that?
• 1:29:12
  It's it's so much better. And I remember sitting there going, yeah. This is way better than watching an adventure movie on a screen, you know? Live it. Like, live your and and realize that your life is important, and your time is important, and your time is your life.
• 1:29:28
  So if your life is getting eaten away by your technology, that's your your time is getting eaten away, that's your life, and then your life's over. And I think, I noticed, like I said earlier, this is dehumanizing thing happening where we it's meant to make us feel like we're not important, and and you are important. And I and I actually, like, now the and I forgot that living in the city way back when I lived in New York City too, by the way, for a few years.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: Not as I was near a park. I was near Prospect Park, and that kinda maintained my sanity that way. But, and I went yeah. I'd go away every weekend, like, out of the city. But, you know, I was gonna say about that.
• 1:30:05
  Yeah. Your life is yeah. Like, I remember going through periods of depression and, like, serious depression at times, and I can't imagine that anymore. I can't imagine feeling feeling bad about myself. You know, like, why do people I'm like, why do people feel bad everybody's important.
• 1:30:20
  Why would you feel bad about yourself and existing? Like, you have every right to exist. You're important. You're you matter. Like, person matters.
• 1:30:29
  Every person has something to contribute and to enjoy on this planet and, like and this is taking it away from you. Like, your use of technology is making you is distorting your perception, is distorting that, and is making you think that you don't matter, and you do. So, like, you know, just smiling at people at the store matters. Like, you helped somebody feel better that day. Like, do those little things every day and reconnect with people, and then you don't you won't be unhappy.
• 1:30:59
  Like, I mean, living in nature at first was hard, like, and there was reasons for that. We could get you know, don't have time to talk about, but I remember I realized how much I company there is in the natural world and how soothing that is and how it feels really good. I never feel, like, alone or lonely even when I'm alone because there's, like, birds and squirrels and plants at my garden and animals. It's like and that's we're meant to feel that companionship, and I think one that disconnect from that also makes people feel depressed because they feel and feel lonely.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: But there's no need to if you go back into that and you appreciate it and help protect it, then you realize you never have to be lonely. So
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: Good good point. Well, I will have to wrap up. I I thought I could talk to you for hours, but I've got an interview coming up and and you'll like this, but I gotta take my wife on a walk or not not taking her on a walk, but we're gonna go walking. So we've been making effort to go walking in the middle of the day. And so that's a big one.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: One that's one more challenge I wanna leave people with. Because I started this last year, and I've done over a year now. A walk a day challenge away from your tech.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: Yes. That's what we do, my wife and I.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: Whatever how many time it can be like it doesn't have to be a certain amount of time, but just take a walk and preferably in nature, and it's easy for us to do that. But it's, you know, amazing how many times I would make excuses before I challenge myself. Here I am with trails right outside the door, and I would be like, oh, it's cold or it's raining or whatever. And I was like, no excuses. One walk a day at least, and and I've done it for a year.
• 1:32:34
  I was there were times I did not wanna do it. I can tell you. You know? And I was like, I'm like, nope. I'm doing my walk.
• 1:32:40
  And, actually take the cats off, and they they're used to going on they like to go on the walk.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, that's fine. So our our cats also, they'll follow us. We'll go on walks. Okay.
• 1:32:48
  We live on a on a very good country road in the forest, basically, and we'll look back and we've two cats running after us that they wanna go on a walk too.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They love it.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: Great. Yeah. Go on a walk. Do a walk a day challenge. So
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: Shannon. I wanna pull your website one more time before we we sign off of here. Your website is just shannonrohan.com. I'll make sure that that's in the description as well. It's shannonrohan, rowan,.com.
• 1:33:13
  This is your new book right here, the red shoes, which I recommend people, you know, looking at ordering. You've also got a lot of other books on your website. So here you can go red shoes.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: Scroll down. Yeah.
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: Yep. There you go. Wi Fi refugee, which is a lot more of your personal story. And this is the book that we talked about, the the Welcome to the Masquerade that you wrote with John Hamer. So, yeah, you've got some great stuff here.
• 1:33:37
  Of course, you have the SEALs on here. So we've got the SEALs stuff going on Yeah. And, yeah. Well, I mean, Shannon, it's just it's been wonderful speaking to you. And, also, I think that and I feel lucky that I get to do this because it's also find time for the human connection.
• 1:33:53
  And I'm lucky that my job dictates that, that I'm you know, whether I like it or not, I'm forced to sit down and talk to people that I don't know. And it's really, really nice to to have that opportunity. But, yeah, it's it's been really nice to speak with you, and I hope that we can do this again. And and just thank you for everything that you're doing to to get this information out, and I hope that people can support you and and buy your books and and all that good stuff. So, yeah, thank you, Shannon.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much. It's been my pleasure. I really appreciate having you having me on.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. We'll do it again. Thank you. Did you know that in the last few centuries, over half a million bells have been destroyed?
• 1:34:30
  There were literally bell graveyards. Now the textbooks tell us that this was to use the metal, but if you've ever gone down this rabbit hole, you discover that the sounds that these bells made had amazing healing properties. There are even claims that certain regions with lots of these bells, church bells, etcetera, were mostly untouched by the bubonic plague. Now your doctor might call you a conspiracy nut for thinking that, but even modern science recognizing the healing power of sound. So check out this study from the NIH.
• 1:34:58
  Doctors used sound therapy on chronic back pain, and they found, quote, significant reductions in pain sensation and pain related disability. But here's the best part, you don't need some fancy expensive sound equipment to find relief. So a woman named Linda Bamber Olson created something called the WaveWatch. So this little device has over 1,200 frequencies that you can use for everything from joint pain to brain fog to insomnia. So I've got one, and I've been using it for about six months.
• 1:35:29
  This is it right here. And I can tell you honestly that it works. Like, if I'm feeling sickly or have some kind of coming on, it's the first thing that I'll reach for, and honestly, I start feeling better within minutes. And that's literally my firsthand experience with it. Even my little kids love wearing it.
• 1:35:45
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• 1:36:07
  Again, that's wavewatch.com/seth or you just use promo code seth to save 15% on your purchase, and those details are in the description below.