Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 82: Have a Job? Why and How to have a Personal Brand with Visa VP Matt Story

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82: Have a Job? Why and How to have a Personal Brand with Visa VP Matt Story · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Legacy leader, have you ever reflected on what people say about you when you leave a room?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Whether it's a boardroom, Zoom room, or a Teams call?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: What do people say about you at a social event?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: Why do people consistently refer you to a project or a client?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, why do these questions even matter?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this is all part of your personal brand.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: Even for me, majority of my business is referrals, whether it's for clients, speaking engagements, and I constantly ask for feedback.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, what made you find me?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: Who referred you?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then even asking my referrals, a network, what did you say about me?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: So regardless whether you have a business or working at a full-time job, I actually sit down, do an interview with my friend who's a girl dad, and Visa's vice president of Global Brand Partnerships and Advocacy, Matt Story.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: All right, let's drop the beat.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, I'm Elaine Lucartas.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a business and career coach for women of color and allies.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Elaine Weakley awarded me the number one thought leader, and Apple News named me one of the top five business coaches.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Done doing the most as a woman of color or ally, and you want to create your own definition of success and happiness?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, grab your coffee tea or boba and let's do some business and career real talk.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Hey legacy leaders.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to have a girl dad, a husband, a podcaster, a Peloton lover, which is why I'm wearing my Peloton shirt today, even though I didn't work out.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: And Visa's vice president of Global Brand Partnerships and Advocacy.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: Matt, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for having me.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to be here.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna get straight to it because I already bragged about you earlier in the intro of this podcast.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: But what is a personal brand?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say the easiest way to describe it is a personal brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we think about that, it makes it very clear why it's important.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: It makes it very clear why it's it should be consistent.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it also makes it clear why we should invest in it because it's something that evolves over time as we change and we evolve over time.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I really like to think about, you know, what is that thing that someone's gonna say about you after experience you the same way they would with a regular product or service or experience?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny because I also think about like dating, right?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: When we first meet people, like what would I want them to say about me?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: So what made you come to this awareness of the concept of personal brand and knowing that, okay, what is someone gonna say when I leave the room?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: How did you start creating that for yourself?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: What made you realize you needed to do that?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think a couple of things that come to mind.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: One is I'm of a generation that grew up with, hey, you just gotta work hard, put your head down, and everything will take care of itself.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Success will just appear.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, I'm the same generation.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually works to a certain degree.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when we get to a point where you're in rooms or you're in places or organizations where those that gave you that advice haven't been, you need a new playbook and you need a new script.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it became very apparent that in order to get that next opportunity or in order to get that next gig, it's not just about hard work.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just about putting your head down and saying, you know, like, oh, I delivered against the thing I wanted to do.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, one of the things that someone shared with me, I wouldn't say early, but relatively early in my career, is what got you here won't get you to where you want to be.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that that concept is taught early enough and really realizing that in order to go to that next level, you need to be prepared for that next level.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like kind of like, you know, inching into a pool.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm swimming at this level, but when it goes deeper, I need to, you know, swim a little harder.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I need to swim a little harder.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, when you're in the ocean and there's waves and there's all these other things, what worked in the kiddie pool isn't going to help you in that ocean.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it was thinking about what are those tools that we can tap into.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found in through my experience, and thanks to mentors, thanks to sponsors, thanks to even peers, is that those that truly invested in what is it that I stand for are the ones you remember.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And those are the ones that really stand out.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I also found, because, you know, marketer by trade, I was doing a lot of work around building brands for the companies I worked for, the products I worked on, because we want to change someone's behavior.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: We want to change someone's perception of what we what we're doing or what we're providing.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And the same thing applies to people.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And as you think about how do I put myself in a position where somebody's going to want to employ me, someone's going to want to work with me, someone's going to want to partner with, someone's going to ask me to lead something, I have to use that same principle of brand building, that same principle of marketing.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was a pretty aha moment.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like, well, duh, you should do that.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: But then over time, you know, realizing the tools we have at our disposal that make it really easy to really invest in that and build that scale.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because unfortunately, I'm not able to meet everyone in the world.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So then you have to think about like, what could I do to put a piece of me in the world where they would actually experience it, engage with it in a way that we don't have to sit down and have this conversation.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to sit down and have coffee.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that today's day and age, there's so many ways we can do that that we can tap into that really help expand on it as well.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: Was there an exact moment you realized that in your career where like, oh, I don't just have to work hard?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious if there was a moment or if there was a train of memories.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there was an exact moment.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of a, I would say it was a progression, but there were a couple of instances where it became very apparent to me.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So for one thing from I've been fortunate in my journey that I've been pulled into experiences and someone has tapped me to say, hey, you might be interested in this opportunity, or have you heard of this opportunity?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think once that happens so many times, that's when it became apparent to me that this isn't just that I'm good.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is because people have experienced me and they have a perspective of what I can do and what I have done previously, that they're then going into rooms and talking about and saying, you should probably talk to Matt.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: He he would be great for this role you're hiring for, this team you're building, or this strategy you're trying to solve for.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it was more of looking back over my shoulder and kind of seeing that consistent thread throughout everything of like, huh, there's something there.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't intentional at that time.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't, I wasn't intentionally investing in it that way.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also think as I as I started to think about, okay, I should ask people what they think about me and like what are those things?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because your perception of your reality can sometimes not be aligned.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started asking the questions of, hey, like, you know, what would you say is the brand of Matt, or what would you say is is why you thought of me for this, which was another kind of a build on that wall of like, oh, this is a thing.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think the the last piece is more is probably once we got into COVID and and you know, we we all kind of had to take a step back and evaluate what was important.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, that's when I really tried to stop being a work version and a home version.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't realize how that was actually, it actually took a weight off of my shoulders and it actually allowed me to show up in a way that I'd never showed up before.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was simply because I was tired and I and I just I got to the point where it was just too much.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like to put on that facade and to say, okay, turn it on, it's work time, and then to reconfigure that and turn it on, I'm I'm home time.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found is as I was bringing more of myself into the work environment, I was actually building stronger relationships because then people felt like they knew me better.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, it's funny.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And one of one of my reviews prior to that, someone actually described me as an enigma.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to look it up because I was like, what does that mean?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, is this the SATs right now?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I had to, I had to look it up.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what what the additional feedback I got was he's great, but I don't know him.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me was the aha of like really combining this personal and this professional, because yes, you can deliver great results, but you also have to let people know what you're about, what you value, because that's truly when you connect.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when you're on a team and you want to work with someone, you want to give your best because you're side by side or you're following or you're leading an individual that you care about.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, that was another moment where it was like, this brand isn't just about my work product.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: This brand is about like who am I as a person.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that allowed me to show up more authentically as what all the facets of me is, as you talked about, because a lot of times I think we sometimes can lean too much on the title, or we lean too much on where we went to school, or we lean too much on, you know, what companies we've worked for.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found is more people connect to me as you started with because I'm a girl dad, because I love Peloton, or, you know, these things that are on a sneakerhead, like those are the things that people really hook on to because it gives you texture.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: It gives you more of a 3D versus this 2D resume version.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully like it wasn't one moment, but like those are multiple times where it became more apparent that this personal brand thing was not only important, but it was a differentiator.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious, I'm curious if not just in your journey, but if you notice that in terms of what's happening in the world because of COVID, because more work is hybrid and remote, that it is important to incorporate your personal stuff in the workplace.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a couple of things happening.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I would say you're right because of you know, the way we work is is fundamentally changing.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have the water cooler talks.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and you don't we have virtual coffee chats.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and you have relationships with people that like this, we've never met in person.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you're able to connect with people in such a new way, which that is a positive, but it also has some limitations because to your point, we don't have the opportunity just to meet at the you know, the coffee machine and talk about our weekend.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to find other ways to do it.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's some positive negatives to the way work is changing that's making who you are and how you stand out more important.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that you have, if you think about it generationally, you have a generation, let's call them Gen X, that are at their career where they're probably not looking just to retire and go to Florida and write off to sunset.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: They're thinking about that next chapter and like what does that look like?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're extending their life and they're almost changing their brand a little bit of what they are known for, what they're interested in.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: You then go back into, you know, millennials, which are kind of in that leader role and really trying to define like who they are, which again, it's all about branding.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have, you know, going into Gen Z, which they kind of came in the door saying, This is who I am.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, you're welcome, Gen Z, FYI.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And again, and uh now, and I'm and there's you know, boomers and Gen Alpha, which even are playing a role in this too.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I think that the way we work is changing, the way that individuals are experiencing work is changing because it's it's literally not what it was where I work eight to five and I put it in a box and I leave it there.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And all of those things are making it very important for you not only to understand who people are, but to value it because people have options.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think before we didn't realize that there were other options of how I work, where I work, when I work, what I work on, that make it very important because similar to, you know, I'm picking a beverage to buy, I just don't pick it based on the taste.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: I pick it based on who's behind that company.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: What does that company stand for?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And people are choosing that in their relationships, they're choosing that in their work environment, they're choosing that in their friendships.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: As you said, they're choosing that in their partners they're selecting.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there is something that's happening in this time and space, but it's also driven by multiple factors.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I want to make sure our listeners heard the question, the powerful questions you asked is when you're talking to other people, like who is Matt?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Who is Elaine?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, I'm curious.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: When you think about me, how do you describe me to other people?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then even getting down to asking yourself the question, who am I?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think the other thing people have to do is you need a North Star.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, whether you call that your mission, whether you call that your purpose, I think spending time on that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, that became my filter.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that became my filter of what I say yes to and what I may have to say no to.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that allows you to show up again in a way that somebody would consistently answer that question the same.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I think the other thing people think about is I may answer that question differently than one of your siblings, or your your co-worker or a client may answer that question differently.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens when those things intersect, it becomes very confusing.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why people have this difficulty with, well, I post this on LinkedIn or I post this on Instagram or I post this on TikTok, and they're showing up in these different ways.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And just from a from the way our brains are wired, when that conflict happens of like, huh, I didn't realize Elaine did that, it actually causes us to like question the relationship and to question what we knew about that person.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I, again, I think it's very important that people think about how do you show up as much as your authentic self?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I always like to say, I'm saying this from a place of privilege.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have spent over 20 years working to be able to now show up as my authentic self.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I have that earned capital, both financial and social, that allows me to show up as who I am.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that's not as easy for someone starting out or someone making a change or has moved into a new phase, but as much as you can be consistent with that answers to those questions, the better it will be received.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, I have a quote that's on my literally on my desk.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I look at it every day from Maya Angelou.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: People forget what you said, they'll forget what you did, but they'll never forget how you made them feel.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like that becomes my filter for how I spend my time, how I engage with people, how I respond, what is the advice I give, what are the things that I say no to.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just really encourage people to really think about call it what you will, your purpose, your filter, your north star, whatever you want it to be, spend time there.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that will help you answer those type of questions.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, one, thank you for taking the time to be here.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm glad that having this conversation is part of the North Star.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to go back to what you were saying of how, you know, coming up as your authentic self.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm doing this executive coaching certification right now.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: And there is amazing people in there, like the Marines, former gold Goldman Sachs employees, McKinse employees.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I I kid you not, we were just having casual conversations in breakout rooms.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, yeah, I do Muay Thai, Thai kickboxing.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: I had three people add me because of that, not because of my pedigree, the awards, how many clients I've worked with.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then I thought to myself, if if this is what people are coming to, let me update my LinkedIn headline, added, edited that.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then I had more people message me about Muay Thai.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, okay, I didn't.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not doing Muay Thai because I want to talk to people.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing it because I need it for my mental health.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure you get it too.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like for Peloton, like, hey, who's your favorite instructor?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And in the way I describe it, and I I think I did this three years ago, four years ago, I changed how I introduced myself.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's, it's, it's across everything I do when I speak, when I when I meet someone the first time, it's the thing I do because what I try to do is we're all, you know, a visual, we're all accordions, and we can expand or contract based on the space.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we sometimes contract it to like, okay, I have to lead with credentials.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is again, not to generalize, but this is something I think people of color and especially women tend to face the most because they there's this imposter syndrome kicks in, this feeling of, you don't think I belong here.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to lead with the strongest thing I have, which are my credentials I've collected, which again, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel that in order to connect with other people, it has to be related to a story.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason that is, is because stories activate both sides of the brain.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: One side of the brain is the emotion it evokes, the second side is the data, the facts that are within it.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do that, people are more likely to remember you.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you're going through and you're saying, oh, you know, I used to work at Proctor and Gamble, I went to school at Washington University, that just washes over people.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm the vice president of blah, blah, blah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Those are things people have heard.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: But when I say I'm a sneakerhead, my favorite Jordan is Air Jordan 3.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I remember, you know, when I couldn't afford it as a kid, but when I became an adult, it was the first thing I bought to the point where I spent my whole first check and I couldn't actually afford food, even though I like, you know, had made all this money.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like my first lesson in like finance and blah, blah, blah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's when people start to realize, like, okay, there's a person behind this because I've expanded the accordion and I've shown you that there's other layers to me that you can hook onto.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when I do my introduction, I almost can guarantee that something in where I interest myself, a person in that room, a person on that Zoom will connect to.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's I'm a wit, I'm a Midwest born mama's boy.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, married my entrepreneur wife and I came to California.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have two girls.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a podcast host, I'm a curious marketer.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I could go on and on and on, but those are hooks that people are like, oh, tell me more about the thing that I didn't even realize about you, because that's where that curiosity, everyone's curious, wants to know more about.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I encourage everyone to really think about who you are.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And no matter if you're 18 or 88, you have that accordion, you have those layers to you, and really thinking about how do you connect?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because we all have these connections that we want to make with other people, even if it's not about us.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want to know more.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like, why did you choose that?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Legacy leader.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know what you're thinking.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Elaine, you have such good stuff here.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: I want more.
• 18:05
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• 18:17
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• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Think Zenga or Life Journal for my fellow millennials, where I share vulnerable stories, relatable mistakes, and important life tips like what to watch on Netflix.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like when's the next Bridgerton season?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're ready for those fun gifts and actionable gifts to create a more sustainable life, then join my newsletter at elaneloo.com forward slash join.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's J O I N.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's get back to the episode.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's interesting because I've noticed more since COVID to what we're talking about.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I get the compliment from clients or people who possibly want to work with me or collaborate with me.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, wow, you're really asking more about me.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't just go straight into the coaching.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah, but I think about the relationships I had even prior to having my coaching business of you just remember things about individuals and then they come back to you.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: Just see a human as a human.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think what unfortunately, fortunately and unfortunately, right, in terms of working from home is that we've seen meetings as like it needs to be productive, right?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: So we have 10 minutes, let's just talk about what we need to for 10 minutes.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: But even checking in, like, hey man, like glad you're a Lakers fan, not a Warrior fan.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, wait, are you a Warrior fan because you're in San Francisco?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because I see Bru Kobe Bryant there.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Are you just a Kobe Bryant fan?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole chapter of my life that I have to unpack.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's an accordion of its own.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: So we don't have enough time to talk about that in this podcast.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: But earlier you were talking about how you had you've had sponsors, mentors, guides, peers.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Can you first define that for our listeners and how they can start connecting with those right people?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I I start with peers.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I I attribute a lot of my success to the peer set that I've been able to collect and have stayed with over the years.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a group of us that went to undergrad together.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the funny thing is, we're actually not even all the same class.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: It actually spans about six years that we have just uh stayed tight since undergrad and all in different fields, all with different, you know, live in different parts of the country.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: But having that that like group of people that provide a safe space for me to go to and say, hey, I'm really struggling with this.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it could be career, it could be family, it could be anything.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: It could just be like, hey, I just want to talk about this thing I saw.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: What do you guys think?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think having a peer set that understands, you know, kind of the the coming of age process you went through and then being able to go through life with is just invaluable.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: The second group is mentors.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I think some people sometimes people think of it as like, I need a mentor.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: You need multiple mentors and you need mentors at different phases.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I encourage people to think about is like who is a couple steps ahead of you.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they haven't figured out everything, but they understand what you're in and what you're going through, and they can give you advice, guidance, et cetera, based on your questions.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Again, mentorship should be all about you setting up the relationship to be as productive as possible.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so going to that person saying, I'm really.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Struggling with this, or I'm really thinking about this, or I'm deciding on this, what would you do?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Then fast forward, you should go five to seven years out because that person may not be able to advise you on the here and now because it's been a while since they were there, but they can think about them in chess, like this the second or third step that can advise like if you take that step, think about this.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more of a preparing you for the things to come.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then depending on your age, where you are in your journey, I would go even further out to someone that's almost kind of where you want to get, like at the mountaintop.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And like think about like how do I access them to understand their wealth of information that they could provide.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, they may not be able to answer your specific question about what you're going through because there may be generational things, they may be like things have changed, et cetera, but they've seen enough game film that they can give you just general good guidance.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's mentorship.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sponsorship is one that, again, most of us don't realize how important it is.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's truly someone that's talking about you in rooms you're not in.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so sponsorship could be someone in your organization that isn't a manager, isn't a manager's manager.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're probably outside of your reporting structure, but they're able to speak your name into opportunities and they know enough about you to represent you in those rooms.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because what most people don't realize is those decisions on who's going to get promoted, who's going to get that new team, who's going to take on that new thing.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's being discussed before you ever hear about it.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so you need someone that is invested in your success to be in that room, to be able to say, hey, Elaine's not on my team, but I know what she's working on.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know what she's capable of.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is directly aligned with her skill set and her capabilities.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: We should give her a shot at this.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, you want to be able to do that from not only your hierarchy of who you report into, but someone else.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because then to the personal branding thing, then it's like, huh, I didn't realize that she was working on that.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize he was working on that, et cetera, et cetera.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So having a sponsor is truly important.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Also, having sponsors outside of the organization, because as you progress through your career, these jobs don't show up on LinkedIn.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: They don't show up on websites.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: They are tapping people to go into that role.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so you need someone sitting in other organizations that can say, hey, I think he would be great for this.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think she would really be a great person to consider for this.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so not just someone that you're engaging with from a mentorship, but someone that's actually working on your behalf and from a sponsorship.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think just having some form of if you want to add in therapists, you want to add in coach, and also thinking about what does the coach help you with?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's there's career coaching, you know, there's other types of coaching depending on what field you're in, that like, you know, I've heard of technical coaches or product coaches.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so rounding out your board of directors or your kind of source of like guidance, inspiration with all of those individuals, depending on where you are in your phase.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, you may be in a phase where you don't need a coach or you don't need necessarily this particular thing.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's very important to have your peer set mentors, sponsors throughout because they're going to help you navigate no matter what you're going through.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can augment with some of those other things.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's the relationship building.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I have some Gen Z clients.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: I remember one client telling me it was around the holidays, and she said, There's a holiday party.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: I don't understand why you have to go.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it was it's so fascinating.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not making fun of her, but just also acknowledge that how they grew up.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: They grew up in front of their phones, they had the pandemic, and I was explaining to her the importance of like going to these social events.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's it is taking time from being productive, but you will have to work with team members cost functionally getting to know them and to understanding who they are.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: And to even what you were saying about mentorship and sponsorship, it's important to have that too.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because as you're progressing in your career and you're having those conversations with people, you can also decide if you want to be in that industry or field.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because maybe you realize I don't like your work-life balance.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: So speaking of different industries, I know prior to Visa, you were working at PNG, working on consumer goods, then you switched over to marketing agencies, and then now you're working at V Visa in finances.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: Can you share with our listeners how maybe you're intentional about your career and industry shift and steps to our listeners?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I asked because we're in this kind of total time where the great resignation, people hate their career and industry.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, I don't have experience in this other industry.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: What do I need to do?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love for you to share.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll start by saying anybody who tells you they had it all figured out and they knew what they were doing is probably lying.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I still can't answer the question, you know, what do I want to be when I grow up?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's so many things I'm interested in.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many things I'm curious about that I have a lot of ideas.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just start there because I think a lot of times someone can look at a resume and be like, wow, that was so well thought out.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's never that well thought out.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is all serendipitous at times, it's all opportunities that arise that you didn't even know existed.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just the lay of the land.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: For for me, I think what happened is there were kind of a couple of things that were consistent for me and a couple of things that changed.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the consistent things is I've always wanted to be in organizations where I was learning from the leaders.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been drawn.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Even if I if I go back to school, the best experience I had is when I was learning from someone.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And anytime I felt like I wasn't learning, it was like it didn't sit right with me.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I like I didn't want to be in that class or I didn't want to be, you know, studying that thing.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so that has been a consistency where I've always gone to places where I felt like I could learn something from people.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what's interesting about that is you don't realize it, but as both as a people leader, but also as a team member, you're learning and you're taking some of their special sauce and you're adding it to your toolkit in a way that helps you show up in that way.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you may never be as good at that thing as that person, but it being having exposure to it gives you a little bit of it to pull into, hey, I'm gonna remix it and do it my way.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's always been a consistent theme for me is and I've worked with some of the most amazing marketing leaders that are out there, you know, Antonio Lucio, Rashad Tobaccoala, Lynn Bigger, Frank Cooper.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like this just like the people that are in the hall of fame, I've had the opportunity to work with.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that is just that's that's been a consistent theme for me.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the other thing that has been consistent for me is like I've always looked for how do I stay on the cutting edge of where the industry is going?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because the marketing industry is constantly changing.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like literally, something's gonna come out new today that I'm gonna have to learn about on Monday.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, how do I stay as close to the cutting edge as possible?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, you'll never know everything, but I want to be in an environment where I can learn and I can be exposed to what is around the corner because that's truly what's gonna lead you to the future.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also that's where I get the most excited and I the most passion is like, hey, what's next?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: What's next?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of my decisions have been driven by those two things.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Am I gonna be in a group where I'm learning from people that are that are really good or really strong in something that I just am not yet?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And secondarily, am I gonna be in a position to continue to be on the cutting edge?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so going to the marketing agency side, it was all about exposing me to more industries.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: To your point, I was in CPG and more specifically, I was in deodorants.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And while it was very fundamental to setting me up to be a world-class marketer, it only exposed me to a segment of industries out there.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then so going to the agency side, I got to be exposed to auto, I got to be exposed to insurance, QSR.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And like those business models are very different.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it kind of opened my mind to oh, this client works this way, this client works this way.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I need to understand how that happens.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so then going back to the client side, I wanted to go deep again because I felt like I was I had gone a mile wide, but I was like an inch deep.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: So then I had to go back client side to be able to go again deep in a vertical.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I, and my choices were where's the future of consumer behavior going?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I first left the agency world to go to Intel because I was working on a group that was doing over the internet TV, which it was before Netflix is where it is now, but Intel was trying to get into that space.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt that was a space that was going to boom and I wanted to be close to it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so not only am I thinking about it from a practice standpoint of being on the cutting edge of marketing, I wanted to be on the cutting edge of consumer behavior.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously coming to Visa, where it's like financial services, when I joined, it wasn't the thing that it is now.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like just the way that it has evolved completely, I just felt like there was endless things I could learn about consumer behavior, where it's going.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so those have been some of the things that have changed, but the consistencies have allowed me to find opportunities that align with where where I want to be, but also where I think I can uniquely contribute.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think what I'm hearing from the journey is that you're curious, right?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: You're curious.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, I'm just focused on deodorant.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of want to see everything.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, clients think differently, but I want to go deeper.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: So going into deeper like the visa.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: There's some people that are probably hesitant of like, okay, well, I'm working full time.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: How do I start then creating a personal brand outside of my company?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: What steps are confidence and inspiration can you give them?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say to think, do I work on my personal brand or do I not?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really a choice because you have a personal brand.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you spend zero time on it or a hundred hours on it, you have one.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I encourage people to do a listening tour.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like literally go to your best friends, go to your colleagues, you know, pick people that don't know you very well and ask them what they would say about you if you weren't in the room.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then map that out and see what it see if in one, see if it's consistent, as I talked about earlier, but also see if that's what you want to be known for.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're not spending time on it, people are creating their own narratives without you being able to input in them.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I personally believe I'd like to control that as much as possible.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to influence it such that it's at least it's aligned with what I think it should be.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that would be the first step is recognize that you do have a personal brand, even if you don't spend time on it.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And two, understand what is and what's out there.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would also encourage people to like I this is the thing I tell everyone.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it could be physically writing on a piece of paper, it could be typing, it could be whatever, you know, it we could do audio to text, whatever works for you from a tool standpoint.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: You have to write because if you don't write, you don't know what you know and you don't know what you think.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the biggest things that have helped me get to this point where I am of understanding what my brand is, understanding where I can expand on it, where can I extend it, where can I scale it, is I've done a lot of time just thinking and putting that out there and then doing some hypothesis, doing some tests.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I test this, I test that.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I actually had someone come in.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: I actually someone asked me, they're like, I noticed that on LinkedIn, you changed the format of your videos from vertical to horizontal.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious why you made that decision.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, like you're really paying attention.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that's one of my tests.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm literally like thinking about like, hey, I think this might work better in this environment doing this, or I think this.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so you don't know those things unless you really think about them.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I found that writing things down, setting goals, tracking your progress to get them, that's the hack to getting progress towards anything, whether it's personal brand, fitness, career, family, that it's a solve for everything.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think it's also like a simple manifestation tool.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like I do this and I want this.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: I remember when I was working in politics, I was telling people I want to get out of this industry.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: And as I was talking to more people, finding my mentors and sponsors, then I manifested a job for Gay Passity City College.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: So you already kind of gave like one takeaway.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Is there any other one takeaway action item or question you want to give our listeners before we go today?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, I'm I'm a firm believer that your story not only is it important, but you don't understand the impact it can have in the world.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I I just encourage everyone to spend time working on your own story and share it everywhere.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because that like I I did a LinkedIn post about this, but like we we see these brands and we see companies that like make a story up about the most abstract thing, like this, you know, B2B SaaS software, you know, is is moving the needle and blah, blah, blah, blah, which I'm sure is is great.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is probably happening.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't realize that by us sharing our story, we can influence other people to know, hey, you're good enough, you're smart enough, you're on the right path, you can pivot, you can change.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times we're like, who am I to share my story?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, you know, super celebrity, I'm not super influencer, I'm not, you know, millions of followers.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, we need more of the people that are just in the in the thick of things, in their journeys to share their story, to be like, huh, I feel seen, I feel validated, I feel like I can do the thing that I've been waiting to do because I heard Elaine share her story.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I heard Matt share his story, I heard this other person share their story.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just think we sometimes we don't place enough value on our story because self-doubt, imposter syndrome, all those things kick in.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I would just say spend the time working on it and also share it as many places as possible.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: So this is a great transition.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: If people want to learn more about your story and reach out to you, how can they find you?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say do two things.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: One, go to my website, mattestory.com.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's where probably everything is from an information standpoint.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then two, I would say probably just follow me on one of the socials.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Matty Story on every social platform.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: You get a different mixture of things depending on the one.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: If it's LinkedIn, you're gonna get more words.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: If it's Instagram, you get more videos.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say just just just hit me up, ask questions.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always happy to give my two cents or my thoughts on things if if you think it's of value.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's the two places I send people.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and can you share your incredible podcast as well?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's your story podcast?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: So similar to you, I got the podcast bug.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and I've done this is my fifth season over 160 conversations with people of color leaders that are sharing their story.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I truly believe that everyone's story is so important that I do a podcast on it.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: And Matt also has the benefit that story is his last name, and he didn't change his name.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: So he was born into this brand.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was meant to be.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was meant to be.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Matt, for your time.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: Are you ready to now create a personal brand?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: So just a reminder: two steps.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: One, put a list of three to five people to ask this week and ask them when you refer or describe me to other people, what do you say?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: And what would you say my strengths are?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: And the second most important step is journal and reflect.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: What do you want to be known for?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: Are people talking about me the way I would like them to?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: And if not, what do I need to do to change?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: And if they are, that's great.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: Who else do I need to connect with?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: And if you loved my interview with Matt, check out his podcast, What's Your Story?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: Because Matt just put my interview with him live on his podcast that went live on Sunday, March 10th, 2024.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: And if you really loved this episode on creating your personal brand, regardless if it's in your job or in your business, here are four things you can do if you feel called to do them.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, if you could leave a five-star rating in review, that would mean a lot to me and my team.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: We created this podcast for accessible education for women of color and allies.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: Each episode takes about four hours to create.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: It takes me one hour to prep and another 30 minutes to one hour to record, then my team spends another two hours to edit and market.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: Number two, because I care about accessible education, share this with a friend who probably wants to grow, expand, realign their own career and need support and encouragement doing it and listening from a person of color like Matt.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: Number three, don't forget to hit the follow and subscribe button because when you hit that follow button, it lets the podcast subscriber know that this podcast is important to women of color and allies like you.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: And number four, if you made it this far, you want to recreate and realign your career or business and life by creating your own definition of success and happiness, and you want to work with me, then schedule an introductory legacy career review call.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: I only work with 24 clients at one time to ensure each client receives the results they deserve.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you can schedule a complimentary legacy career review call at ElaineLu.com forward slash call.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's E-L A I N E L O U.com forward slash call.