Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / First Do No Harm: A medical standard or a medical option?

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First Do No Harm: A medical standard or a medical option? · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

0:11
It's the tip of the spare in the
0:13
epic battle to defend the United States of
0:14
America.
0:19
The National Security Hour exposes the wolves in
0:21
sheep's clothing and the nefarious plots to undermine
0:24
and destroy U.S.
0:27
national security.
0:32
Welcome to the National Security Hour on the
0:34
America Out Loud Network.
0:37
We talk about some very intense uh issues
0:39
on this program.
0:42
But one of the ones that I have
0:43
been alerted to is the issue of organ
0:45
harvesting.
0:47
And many of you know that I work
0:50
uh as a consultant with the Epic Times
0:52
and their television network NTD, and I was
0:54
made aware of it.
0:57
And for those that you don't know about
0:59
organ harvesting, I'm I'm sure that many of
1:01
you understand that we do organ harvesting and
1:04
in the sense that we have organ transplants,
1:06
but a lot of people can't get that
1:09
organ, whether it's a liver, a heart, a
1:11
lung immediately, and we all love our family.
1:14
We want to be able to save people's
1:16
lives, but what we don't like to do
1:18
is to be barbaric.
1:20
And there's a barbaric sort of a treatment
1:22
going on, especially in communist China, where they
1:25
take innocent people, many of them fallen gong,
1:28
and uh if you need a heart, where
1:30
you can fly to Beijing, check into a
1:33
hospital, and you can get that transplant right
1:35
away.
1:38
I'm gonna find out more about this.
1:41
A wonderful man who has done so much
1:43
research is a gentleman by the name of
1:44
Dr.
1:46
Torsten Trey.
1:49
And he is a physician, bioethicist, he is
1:53
the founder and executive director of doctors against
1:57
forced organ harvesting uh called DAFO.
2:01
And he has also been nominated several times
2:04
for uh the uh Pulitzer Prize.
2:07
He's been recognized worldwide as an one of
2:12
the most strongest authorities on transplant ethics, and
2:16
he co-edited the landmark volume call state organs
2:20
transplant abuse in China.
2:25
And he has a brand new documentary out.
2:28
We're going to talk about that.
2:29
It's called Silent Harvest, The Courage to Speak
2:31
Up.
2:34
Dr.
2:34
Trey, welcome to the program.
2:37
Uh tell us a bit about this whole
2:39
uh issue of organ harvesting, because I would
2:42
I would suspect many of the people that
2:44
are listening to this program across the country
2:47
don't really know about it.
2:50
Yes.
2:51
Well, thank you, Blanquita, to have me here
2:53
on your on your show.
2:55
Uh, when I heard first time in uh
2:59
2006, 20 years ago, uh, about something like
3:02
that, organs were harvested from Falun Gong practitioners.
3:06
Uh a witness came forward and said he
3:09
removed corneas from 2000 Falun Gong practitioners.
3:11
That was shocking to me.
3:13
Uh it was but it was at the
3:15
same time also unimaginable.
3:17
I couldn't believe this is true, that I
3:19
couldn't believe that doctors would do that.
3:21
You know, we as um in the medical
3:23
profession, we follow the medical oath.
3:25
So it took me a while to, you
3:28
know, to come to my own judgment and
3:31
assessment that this is really true.
3:34
Maybe it took me five months or so.
3:36
I followed that case from um.
3:39
How'd you I mean when you say it
3:40
took you five months?
3:41
How did you first encounter it?
3:43
And how did you what happened in that
3:45
five months?
3:47
Yeah, I was just about to go into
3:48
this.
3:50
I I heard about it first time in
3:52
the uh Epoch Times.
3:54
They had an article about it, and it
3:56
was the wife of a doctor who came
3:59
forward, a bliss uh whistleblower, and then there
4:02
was another journalist from China who came up
4:04
with a similar statement, and then uh an
4:07
uh uh military doctor from uh from China,
4:09
he anonymously sent a letter to the Epoch
4:12
Times.
4:14
So that all happened in one month, and
4:17
that that really contributed to my understanding.
4:20
Wow, there is really something.
4:21
There is something.
4:23
And then um I I followed the um
4:25
Edward McMahon Scott, he was the vice president
4:27
of the parliament.
4:29
He went to China and interviewed uh Falun
4:32
Gong practitioners, and then the first um investigation
4:35
came out in July 2006 by David Kegar,
4:38
David Metas.
4:41
And at that point, at that time when
4:44
they showed that they called hospitals in China,
4:47
then then I realized this is this is
4:50
really happening.
4:52
I went myself to uh uh transplant congress
4:55
in Boston in July uh 2006, talked to
4:58
two Chinese doctors, and they bluntly like openly
5:00
said what I asked, where do the organs
5:03
come from?
5:05
And one of them said, from Farangong practitioners.
5:10
Do they treat it, Doctor, like uh, you
5:11
know, they pray basically from what you've said
5:13
here, they basically kind of like it's no
5:15
big deal.
5:16
They're just Wallongong practitioners.
5:19
My understanding is that they target the Fallen
5:21
Gong practitioners because they're pretty healthy, they don't
5:24
smoke, they don't drink, they they they eat
5:26
healthy, but the other thing is it becomes
5:28
like their political targets because they've that particular
5:31
practice of faith has grown so much in
5:33
China.
5:36
Have I got that right?
5:38
Yes, yes, you got it right.
5:40
So, in um the this practice, Falung Gong
5:43
is based on three principles truthfulness, compassion, forbearance,
5:46
and it includes uh Qi Kong uh like
5:49
uh exercises.
5:52
So it's like a Buddhist Qigong style of
5:54
practice, spiritual practice.
5:57
It was introduced to China to the Chinese
6:00
public in 1992, and seven years later in
6:03
1999, there were uh about 70 to 100
6:06
million people in China who practice this.
6:09
So it's it's not a good thing.
6:10
And they at that point they practice pretty
6:12
openly, from what I understand.
6:14
They practice exact exactly.
6:15
And you know, then why is it possible
6:17
in seven years to grow to a hundred
6:19
million people?
6:21
It's very easy to explain.
6:23
The Chinese people were practicing Qi Kong, Tai
6:25
Chi, and other exercises in the park for
6:27
the health.
6:29
But when they when they learned the practice
6:31
of Falong, they immediately felt oh wow, this
6:33
is a completely different dimension.
6:35
This is really uh much stronger.
6:37
So they they pivot towards Falun Gong within
6:39
seven years.
6:42
And so you're talking to me like they
6:44
looked at it, the Chinese, excuse me, the
6:46
Chinese Communist Party looked at it as a
6:49
threat to their viability and their ability to
6:51
control this massive group of people because they
6:54
were so dedicated to this practice of of
6:56
uh of religion uh in a way, because
6:59
it's not a traditional religion, as you say,
7:00
In a way, because it's not a traditional
7:01
it's like a Buddhist practice where they meditate
7:02
religion, as you say, it's like a Buddhist
7:04
and they do exercises.
7:04
practice where they meditate and they do exercises.
7:07
Yes, and I would if you want to
7:07
Yes, and I would if you want to
7:10
describe it uh in one term, I would
7:10
describe it in one term, I would say
7:13
say this was the paranoia by the CCP
7:13
this was a paranoia by the CCP leadership,
7:16
leadership because the the practice of Falong itself
7:16
because the practice of Falangong itself doesn't want
7:19
doesn't want to get involved in politics.
7:19
to get involved in politics.
7:22
They don't want to overtake the country, they
7:22
They don't want to overtake the country, they
7:24
don't want to die uh direct the policy
7:24
don't want to die uh direct the policy.
7:25
system.
7:27
So they just want to practice their practice.
7:27
They just want to practice their practice.
7:29
But
7:29
But the the CCP leadership, they thought that
7:31
they are a threat and they were more
7:33
popular.
7:35
So they maybe there's a little bit jealousy
7:37
involved.
7:38
But then also one example that if you
7:41
pick the uh tolerance from the practice, you
7:44
know, to be tolerant, you have to have
7:47
several um choices, right?
7:50
But in the in China with the CCP,
7:52
there's no second choice.
7:54
There's only one voice, uh, and that's the
7:56
CCP.
7:58
And uh and that's a communist party.
8:00
That's the communist party.
8:01
What I'm hearing from you makes me think
8:04
that their paranoia about the numbers that were
8:07
growing so quickly is they thought perhaps they
8:09
thought someone would come in and try to
8:12
manipulate this massive group of people to react
8:15
against the communist party when in fact it
8:18
was not directed to any kind of political
8:20
you know affiliation at all.
8:24
You well, yes, the the number is one
8:27
aspect, but as I just uh mentioned that
8:30
the tolerance is another aspect because the CCP
8:33
was afraid that when the citizens learn about
8:36
tolerance, they might they might start thinking that
8:39
uh, well, there are maybe several options, not
8:42
just the CCP rule.
8:45
So, in a way, from the just by
8:47
the content, the CCP might have felt uh
8:50
threatened by the practice, but it was not
8:52
the intention of Falun Gong.
8:55
So that's why I say it's more uh
8:57
paranoia from the CCP to perceive it as
8:58
an enemy.
9:01
Well, you know, it's interesting about that is
9:02
we're talking to our guest, Dr.
9:04
Torsten Trey, who's authored many articles and several
9:08
prestigious medical journals, has authored two books uh
9:11
about this issue of the organ harvesting.
9:16
One is called State Organs and Unprecedented Evil
9:19
Persecution, its subtitle is Genocide Against Goodness in
9:22
Humankind.
9:25
And Doctor, what was interesting to me because
9:28
I have talked about this position I held
9:30
years ago as a chairman of Radio Free
9:33
Asia, and this would have been during the
9:36
years of 2002 and 2008, 9, 10 in
9:38
that area.
9:41
I went to Beijing, I went to Hong
9:43
Kong, but one of the people said to
9:45
me, You have to be careful, uh BQ,
9:48
because you're going to encounter the Falun Gong.
9:50
I said, Oh, I didn't know anything about
9:51
it.
9:52
I'm in Hong Kong and I'm looking at
9:54
this group of people who were practicing their
9:56
exercises.
9:58
They couldn't have looked more peaceful.
10:00
This individual said, Oh no, they're a political
10:01
group.
10:03
And I thought to myself, even at that
10:05
early time, I'm looking at this group of
10:07
people who are being very peaceful.
10:10
They tried to turn it around and make
10:12
it look like they were a political group
10:14
waiting to happen.
10:16
Your thoughts.
10:18
Well, first of all, look at this statement.
10:22
What would be wrong in the statement to
10:23
say they are political?
10:26
What is wrong?
10:28
What is wrong with that?
10:29
You know, just having a public opinion about
10:31
the government or leadership.
10:34
That for us it's normal.
10:35
So it just the this idea that they
10:38
are categorized as political, that in itself is
10:40
already like a fallacy.
10:43
That's a that's a wrong categorization, and it's
10:45
not it's not bad.
10:47
It's uh nothing there's nothing behind it.
10:50
But on top of that, um Falun Gong
10:53
is not even interested in taking um making
10:56
efforts into the politic political system because it
10:59
is all about um you know becoming a
11:01
better person, uh, becoming a good person, following
11:04
these three principles.
11:07
It's all something what we here in the
11:10
US would describe as self-improvement.
11:12
So it um neither the comment of being
11:16
political is right, not the association or the
11:19
assessment that they they have anything to do
11:23
with political uh with politics is is right.
11:26
So it's it's um misleading right from the
11:28
beginning.
11:31
Right, of course, but unfortunately, the Western world
11:34
has not been made aware of this.
11:37
And uh you you probably well, we'll talk
11:40
about that in our next segment.
11:42
But the question is we have how many
11:45
doctors would you say in the United States
11:47
are are from China and and study and
11:49
work in hospitals in the United States.
11:53
Oh, I don't have a number on that,
11:55
but what I can tell you is this
11:57
in the past, like 20 years ago, they
11:59
it was typical that China sends interns to
12:02
the transplant departments.
12:04
An intern stays uh about two years in
12:07
the hospital, works there, and it's also um
12:11
that he also gets it is recorded in
12:14
the hospitals uh administration.
12:18
After forced organ harvesting became more public, the
12:21
hospital started to reject interns from China.
12:25
But what happened then is they used another
12:27
trick, they used observership to to go to
12:30
the transplant centers.
12:32
Observers means they stay only a half a
12:35
year and they are not recorded in the
12:37
hospitals.
12:39
So you cannot track how many Chinese observers
12:42
stayed in our transplant hospitals, because there's no
12:45
record of it.
12:49
Very interesting.
12:50
So we really don't have a clue, but
12:53
the thing that we'll also find out is,
12:55
you know, apparently there's a way for people
12:58
to find out here from hospitals and doctors
13:01
that they can go to China and have
13:03
this done.
13:06
They go to, I guess, I don't know
13:09
whether they go to Beijing or where they
13:12
go, they check in, the doctors have already
13:14
done the blood work, and then someone is
13:17
conveniently disposed of that can provide the accurate
13:20
kind of liver, heart, lung, kidney, and if
13:23
it doesn't work, from what I've understand, the
13:26
even more barbaric is it'll kill someone else.
13:30
Yes, um, so here if you if you
13:31
are uh if you want to get a
13:33
transmit organ, you're on a waiting uh waiting
13:35
list.
13:36
And for kidneys, it's sometimes five years for
13:39
a liver, heart maybe it can be up
13:41
to a one year.
13:43
So patients are desperate, and then they hear
13:45
in the internet you can go to China,
13:48
they talk to their doctor.
13:50
Uh what can I do?
13:51
And they say, well, if you are really
13:52
urgent, yeah, I hear it, you can go
13:53
to China.
13:55
And for example, with with kidney transplants, what
13:57
happens is we we have one case uh
13:59
that happened.
14:00
Case uh that happened.
14:01
Uh one of our doctors observed it.
14:01
Uh one of our doctors observed that a
14:03
A patient who has received who was previously
14:04
patient who has received who was previously in
14:05
in dialysis centers, went to China, got a
14:06
dialysis centers, went to China, got a new
14:07
new kidney.
14:08
kidney, he went back to the dialysis center,
14:10
He went back to the dialysis center, and
14:11
and he talked to other patients in the
14:12
he talked to other patients in the waiting
14:13
waiting room and said, hey, instead of dialysis,
14:14
room and said, Hey, instead of dialysis, you
14:16
you can get a kidney in China, I
14:16
can get a kidney in China, I can
14:18
can help you to connect.
14:18
help you to connect.
14:21
And he was promised if he recruits one
14:21
And he was promised if he recruits one
14:23
patient to China, he gets 10% of the
14:23
patient to China, he gets 10% of the
14:25
money that he paid.
14:25
money that he paid.
14:27
So China is recruiting patients.
14:27
So China is recruiting patients to recruit new
14:30
patients.
14:35
So in other words, if they if they're
14:37
working as an intern, potentially even in the
14:40
United States, and they say, Oh, you don't
14:42
need to wait to somebody to be on
14:44
a list and you're down two years, you
14:46
know, your your Uncle Charlie, he's gonna die.
14:48
Here you could get this done.
14:50
Well, how uh and then they get a
14:52
commission on how many of those people go
14:54
to to China, how much do they charge
14:55
these people?
14:58
Well, for uh, for example, for a kidney,
15:01
the price tag is maybe 150,000 to 200,000.
15:04
For a liver or heart is 300,000.
15:08
The price differs a little bit by uh
15:10
by various uh criteria, and they also look
15:12
how wealthy the person is so they to
15:14
push up the price.
15:16
But it's not about uh it's not about
15:18
the the price itself, it's about what is
15:20
happening.
15:22
When yeah, exactly the what what is critical
15:25
here is that if a patient from abroad,
15:29
and we don't know who's going because of
15:32
HIPAA, if a patient goes to China and
15:35
asks for a kidney, he initiates the selection
15:38
of the prisoner and also he initiates the
15:42
killing of the murder of that of that
15:45
um detainee of that dissident.
15:49
So think about it.
15:50
The these patients that go to China, they
15:54
become complicit in a murder.
15:57
And and we know from the Nuremberg trials
15:59
that you know, just uh uh not knowing
16:02
about it isn't save you.
16:05
Yeah, there's some there's uh from the ethical
16:07
and even legal uh perspective.
16:11
And for people that don't know what the
16:13
Nuremberg trials reply uh that's going back to
16:15
World War II and the trials that the
16:17
Nazis and those people that conspired with the
16:19
Nazis against the Jews and other victims, whether
16:22
they were homosexuals, whether they were people that
16:24
were targeted as political prisoners, and they were
16:26
killed, and they said, Well, we didn't know
16:28
what was going on.
16:31
We we had no knowledge of it.
16:32
But now that's kind of hard to believe,
16:35
especially with the mass media and the many,
16:38
many ways that people get their information.
16:40
Let me just tell you really quickly, we're
16:42
going to go to a break, but we're
16:44
talking to a very formidable individual by the
16:45
name of Dr.
16:47
Torsten Trey, who's co-authored so many articles about
16:51
this horrible evil that's happening in China that's
16:54
labeled as organ harvesting.
16:57
And we're going to talk about this Hippocratic
17:00
Oath, first do no harm and how people
17:02
go there and do they really understand what's
17:05
being what are the stakes?
17:07
Who's being sacrificed to be able to allow
17:09
that individual to live?
17:11
Stay with us.
17:12
I'm Blanquita Cullum on the National Security.
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Now is our time, my fellow Americans.
20:02
America of Mao.
20:15
Welcome back to the National Security Hour.
20:18
I'm Blanquita Kellum, your host, speaking with Dr.
20:21
Torsten Trey, a man who has taken a
20:24
very strong ethical position to fight off the
20:28
issue of organ harvesting that has taken the
20:31
lives of many in China, in communist China,
20:34
and particular at the Fallen Gong.
20:38
Very healthy individuals that have been targeted because
20:41
they are healthy to provide organs for people
20:44
that maybe compromised with your health, with their
20:47
heart, their lungs, their kidney, their liver.
20:50
And he's he's been pretty amazing.
20:52
In fact, I was looking at your background,
20:54
Doctor, and all of the uh the ways
20:56
that you've been many people have realized that
20:58
took a lot of courage for you to
21:00
That took a lot of courage for you
21:00
get out there and do this.
21:01
to get out there and do this.
21:02
You you've not only uh been recognized by
21:03
You've not only uh been recognized by the
21:06
the wonderful documentary that you've done.
21:06
wonderful documentary that you've done.
21:09
Tell us about that documentary real quickly.
21:09
Tell us about that documentary real quickly.
21:12
Yes.
21:12
Yes, we um we are actually in the
21:15
year of our 20th uh anniversary since founding
21:18
our NGO, and I we thought what can
21:18
Since founding our NGO, and I we thought,
21:20
we do for this event?
21:20
what can we do for this even?
21:23
So we came up with the idea to
21:23
So we came up with the idea to
21:25
produce a documentary that is some kind of
21:25
produce a documentary.
21:27
um of
21:28
That is some kind um of summary of
21:30
what we did, but also a way to
21:32
reach out to people.
21:34
This um movie itself is uh showing um
21:37
expert um opinions of uh over a dozen
21:41
of medical doctors and other China uh China
21:44
experts.
21:48
And uh by by pulling it all together,
21:50
we not only show the evidence for forced
21:53
organ harvesting, but we also um show the
21:56
complications that come with this practice, and of
21:59
course, uh with a call to take action.
22:02
I want to make sure that everyone knows
22:03
the name of it.
22:05
It's called Silent Harvest and China's organ genocide
22:08
as a national security threat.
22:12
And um, I have to say it's you
22:15
you you talked about it being 10 years
22:18
in the making, and I actually recently met
22:21
a survivor of the organ harvesting.
22:24
I I I have to imagine, and I
22:27
I think he must have lost a long
22:29
and was able to continue to live, but
22:31
uh the trauma uh has to be I
22:33
I looked, I could see in his face
22:36
he had terrible trauma.
22:38
Um was cause certainly, but how many are
22:41
allowed to live after that happens?
22:45
Because do they do they keep them to
22:47
try to use them again?
22:48
I mean, this is shocking.
22:51
So this uh specific case was, I believe,
22:53
from uh 2004.
22:56
At that time, um the the whole process,
22:58
the whole uh machinery behind forced organ harvesting
23:01
was not known to the Western public, to
23:04
the international public.
23:07
So at that time, China felt pretty confident
23:09
that they can just do it and nobody
23:11
would find out.
23:13
But when it happened in uh 20 uh
23:15
in 2006 that we learned about it, China
23:17
changed completely.
23:20
And uh in the regard that they they
23:23
say we cannot have any piece of evidence
23:26
look out of um this machinery.
23:30
So they moved on.
23:31
And right now, well, we know everyone who
23:34
is organ harvested is being killed in the
23:37
process, and the corpse is being incinerated in
23:40
the biohazard um uh fireplaces in hospitals.
23:44
Doctor, you've talked to many doctors around the
23:47
world about this, and you have an organization
23:50
that you started that is the doctors against
23:53
forced organ harvesting.
23:56
Uh clearly it's just not here in the
23:58
United States, but other countries around the world
24:01
that have patients that are going to China.
24:03
Uh, how successful have you been in recruiting
24:06
doctors in your organization that are willing to
24:09
speak out and fight out fight against the
24:11
forced organ harvesting?
24:15
Um we we have a couple of uh
24:18
a couple dozen of doctors who are working
24:20
with us and support it, but they are
24:23
also tied up in their uh patient work.
24:26
So it's a it's a matter of time
24:28
how much they can invest in our work,
24:30
but they are supportive.
24:32
They when when we write articles, they they
24:34
co-author the articles or uh they are ready
24:37
to stand by for interviews.
24:40
There are doctors who have a very high
24:42
ethical standard.
24:44
How about the American Medical Association?
24:46
What about the American Medical Association?
24:48
It would seem that they you know would
24:51
be supportive of your position and your organization.
24:54
Well, this is a very sad chapter, I
24:55
have to tell you.
24:57
This is to me, it was heartbreaking and
25:00
one of the moments that are most disappointed.
25:04
And allow me to explain this.
25:06
When we reached um out to several medical
25:10
associations in the in the US, including two
25:13
transplant associations and a major medical association.
25:17
And what happened is the leadership, I I
25:19
would call it the leadership was always blocking
25:21
us.
25:23
And what at one point we applied at
25:25
a Congress, we got to the green light,
25:27
and we actually paid the fee for a
25:30
booth in the exhibition hall, and then afterwards
25:32
they they kicked us out with a with
25:34
the only explanation that they chose a different
25:36
direction.
25:39
There was nothing wrong with how do you
25:41
choose choose a different direction?
25:43
We have a standard.
25:44
I mean, you don't you don't kill people
25:46
to have other people live.
25:48
That's not the American Medical Association standard, I
25:50
hope not.
25:52
Well, that's that's where my disappointment and heartbreak
25:55
moment came, because that that itself, you know,
25:58
this is not a reason to uh remove
26:02
um medical NGO that was nominated for a
26:05
Nobel Peace Prize three times to kick it
26:08
out of the exhibition hall.
26:11
So and what the consequence is that we
26:14
could actually not present our data to the
26:17
4,000 doctors who were attending the Congress.
26:20
So I call it a medical censorship, and
26:22
that happened here in the US, and it
26:23
happened two, three times.
26:25
So it's not a single case.
26:27
It happened two, three times.
26:28
So this is medical censorship from the leadership.
26:32
The doctors are very interested.
26:34
So we went, for example, to a conference
26:36
and and then uh on the street, we
26:38
were distributing our reports, and the doctors were
26:39
saying, keep up the good work.
26:41
This is really great.
26:43
And when I asked, like, did you did
26:44
you hear about the forced organ harvesting in
26:46
China?
26:47
The expression was really disgusted, an expression of
26:50
disgust because they don't want this forced organ
26:52
harvesting.
26:55
But it was a leadership that was censoring
26:56
us.
26:58
And then we're not gonna be able to
26:58
do that.
27:00
I'm I'm shocked.
27:01
I mean, it's it's unbelievable.
27:03
And I I have to think that it
27:06
would be of concern to other networks, and
27:09
I'm talking media networks, uh, television, online, radio
27:12
around the country to think that a group
27:16
that's trying to stop forced organ harvesting would
27:19
be kicked out of a conference or a
27:22
convention of the American Medical Association.
27:25
That's just stunning.
27:27
That is, it is.
27:29
And it it is probably an effect of
27:31
the uh well, you know, China is uh
27:34
a world champion in export, and one of
27:36
the products that they also export is bribery.
27:39
And I I believe that.
27:40
So you think they're paid off.
27:42
You think with all of the money that
27:43
they would be paid off?
27:45
Maybe, maybe not with money, but maybe with
27:47
threats, where they say, well, if you talk
27:50
about forced organ harvesting, you cannot join our
27:52
medical conferences in China.
27:54
I don't know exactly what we're doing.
27:55
And why would we why would it make
27:56
a difference if we did or we did
27:57
not?
27:59
I cannot explain that.
28:00
Explain that.
28:01
I mean, because you understand, you know, if
28:01
I mean, because you understand, you know, if
28:03
you think about it, what would I mean
28:03
you think about it, what would I mean,
28:05
certainly I understand the movie industry did not
28:05
certainly I understand the movie industry did not
28:07
want to lose the audience in China and
28:07
want to lose the audience in China and
28:09
they would be very careful how they did
28:09
they would be very careful how they did
28:11
movies that would not offend China because it
28:11
movies that would not offend China because it
28:14
would lose an audience.
28:14
would lose an audience.
28:16
But when you're talking about medicine and you're
28:16
But when you're talking about medicine and you're
28:18
talking about the health and well-being of first
28:18
talking about the health and well-being of first
28:20
do no harm, the Hippocratic Oath, you think,
28:21
do no harm, the Hippocratic Oath, you think,
28:23
wait a minute, what do we lower the
28:23
wait a minute.
28:25
standard?
28:25
What do we lower the standard?
28:27
Do we not let people know that it's
28:27
Do we we not let people know that
28:28
going to be a good one?
28:29
it's going on?
28:30
That shocks me.
28:32
It is shocking, and I have no answer.
28:35
These leaders did not talk to me and
28:37
explain why they did this.
28:39
But uh so I can only have my
28:40
own thoughts.
28:42
And maybe another thought is that they try
28:44
to suffocate this whole discussion because they think
28:47
uh forced organ harvesting is a stain to
28:49
the transplant discipline.
28:52
And instead of taking it you know by
28:54
the horns, they they just try to you
28:57
know make it go away.
28:59
And that is usually a very bad idea
29:02
in our uh era today where we have
29:05
internet and social media.
29:08
So I'm thinking, Doctor, you know, after World
29:12
War II, people could not even discuss, mention,
29:17
investigate the kinds of experiments that Dr.
29:21
Joseph Mengela did on people during the Holocaust
29:24
because they were so brutal, so barbaric that
29:27
we didn't want this to be uh, you
29:30
know, transferred to doctors or people to try
29:33
to take his uh experiments and grow them.
29:36
And so they were they were banned.
29:38
But now we have a different situation where
29:42
they're not banned, but we're averting our eyes.
29:45
Um do you think doctors in this country
29:47
know if their patients have gone to China
29:49
to get an organ harvest?
29:52
Not necessarily because of HIPAA.
29:54
That that information is protected, so they they
29:57
don't have to the patients don't have to
30:00
uh release where they got the transplantation.
30:03
But we had several cases where some of
30:05
our doctors talk to individuals, and we know
30:07
one person said, Yeah, I went to China
30:09
or uh my relative went to China.
30:12
So we we know as a fact that
30:14
uh you know on um on an individual
30:17
by individual cases that um American patients go
30:20
to China, but um we it is more
30:23
we we need to we need to see
30:26
who are we uh as not only as
30:28
people but also as medical doctors if we
30:31
let this allow to happen.
30:34
We are living in an international um international
30:37
medical network where we we learn from um
30:40
other research across the globe uh what happened,
30:44
and then uh we take you know take
30:47
it to to create new research, etc.
30:51
We are connected.
30:52
So if we if we if we just
30:55
turn a blind eye to forced organ harvesting
30:57
and say, well, this part is only happening
30:59
in China, that is a little bit of
31:02
a hypocrisy in the medical medical profession.
31:05
Well, it says that certain people certain people
31:07
are expendable, certain people we don't care about.
31:10
Certain people, it doesn't matter whether they live
31:11
or die.
31:13
We don't really know them, they're not our
31:14
neighbors, they're not our friends, they we don't
31:16
we don't know about them.
31:18
I can't talk to you about them.
31:19
So, in other words, we're doing what we
31:21
did during World War II and saying we
31:23
don't know who's being uh, you know, in
31:26
in and turned in some concentration camp.
31:28
We don't know who they are.
31:29
Is that really true?
31:30
We don't know for sure, but now we
31:31
do know for sure.
31:33
So my question also is, and we'll we'll
31:36
explore this even more in the next segment,
31:38
but you know, you have members of Congress
31:41
who are doctors.
31:44
Have you have how is that resonating in
31:46
the United States Congress?
31:49
Um the we reached out to some doc
31:53
uh some doctors, some uh representatives who are
31:56
doctors, and um some of them um were
31:59
immediately they understood that something is wrong.
32:03
We for example, we uh talked with uh
32:05
Senator Um Marshall.
32:08
Um he is he's uh he's a doctor,
32:09
he understood it quickly and he was very
32:11
supportive.
32:13
Um we also have some uh congressmen who
32:16
are supportive, and but it's um one aspect
32:19
is to um be supportive, and the other
32:23
one is to be courageous to speak up.
32:26
You you understand what when uh a senator
32:29
or congressman uh talks starts talking about forced
32:31
organ harvesting in China, then China will probably
32:34
um uh mobilize money to to get a
32:37
uh uh uh you know uh competitor for
32:40
the next election.
32:43
So it it is it is it requires
32:45
courage to speak up, and it's uh it
32:48
requires a principled position.
32:51
Well, you have to think that it that
32:53
how can you sleep at night, okay?
32:56
If you have uh and and creating legislation
32:58
that will hold people accountable, you know, you
33:01
don't want people not to be able, if
33:03
there's an organ available, certainly that's the great
33:06
benefit of the beauty of the miracle of
33:08
modern medicine that if someone has the opportunity,
33:11
if they're going to die or something, to
33:13
donate their kidney, they have that even in
33:16
driver's license.
33:18
Do you want to be an organ donor?
33:20
But you don't want to have someone that's
33:23
arbitrarily someone you don't know that's absolutely healthy,
33:25
that you've just paid a hundred thousand or
33:28
a couple hundred thousand or three hundred thousand
33:30
dollars to buy their heart and they're killed.
33:33
They have and they disappear.
33:35
I mean, you know, they those lives matter,
33:37
their families matter.
33:39
You don't care how they believe or what
33:40
they believe or how they live or what
33:42
they live or what color they are, or
33:44
how tall they are, how short they are,
33:46
they have the right to exist as much
33:48
as the individual that wants to buy the
33:50
organ, but they have no rights.
33:52
So my question, and we'll discuss it more.
33:55
I think it goes more to courage than
33:58
ethical principles and the law.
34:02
Is there any international law?
34:04
Because you're you're from Germany, you you practice
34:07
medicine in different places around the world.
34:10
Is there any international standard of medicine that
34:12
prevents victims from being targeted for their art
34:15
their organs?
34:18
Well, there's no no international organization that would
34:21
um enforce that because of the um uh
34:25
uh the sovereignty of of the different countries
34:28
and the the laws, but there's for example
34:31
the WHO and the WHO has um uh
34:34
released uh uh 11 principles related to transplantation
34:37
and organ donation.
34:41
And I and I tell and I tell
34:43
my audience just so they know, Doctor, world
34:44
health organization.
34:46
Go ahead.
34:48
That's right, yes.
34:49
And um one of those uh principles is
34:52
uh requires transparency, transparency in the field of
34:54
transplant.
34:57
Another one requires traceability, so we need to
34:59
know where the organs come from.
35:00
So we need to know where the organs
35:01
come from.
35:02
And then there are about four or five
35:02
And then there are about four or five
35:05
other principles that actually explicitly say uh no
35:05
other principles that actually explicitly say no money
35:08
money can must be involved in organ procurement
35:08
must be involved in organ procurement and organ
35:11
and organ donation.
35:11
donation.
35:14
So all these think about it, these are
35:14
So all these think about it, these are
35:17
already seven principles of the WHO are violated
35:17
already seven principles of the WHO are violated
35:19
by China.
35:19
by China.
35:22
But the WHO is rather collaborating with China
35:22
But the WHO is rather collaborating with China
35:24
than pointing out to China that they have
35:25
than pointing out to China that they have
35:27
to.
35:28
to live up to the principles.
35:31
Well, now my question, let me throw this
35:32
one at you.
35:34
So you say that China is violating those
35:38
principles, but is a participant or a purchaser
35:42
from any country, you know, then also causing
35:46
their country to violate those principles.
35:50
Even if the country doesn't even know they're
35:51
going over there.
35:52
Let's say go they go from Spain or
35:54
they go from Italy or they go from
35:56
the United States or they go from Panama.
35:58
If an individual goes over there, should the
36:00
country bear some responsibility for the actions of
36:02
the person that is going to purchase an
36:05
organ and the death of some human being.
36:08
Of course.
36:09
Of course, as I just said, the WHO
36:11
says you no money should be given for
36:14
the organs.
36:16
And every every patient who goes to China,
36:18
what does he do?
36:20
He pays money because it's not an altruistic
36:22
system like we have in our own country.
36:24
China's selling organs.
36:26
And that is directly violating the WHO and
36:29
the WHO is just sitting there doing nothing.
36:32
And that's that's where you're you are but
36:35
you're bringing a good point.
36:37
You're bringing you bringing up a good point.
36:40
The the countries from where the uh recipients
36:43
go or leave, those countries are actually also
36:46
complicit in this violation of WHO standard if
36:50
they allow it that uh patients can go
36:53
to uh pay money for a transplant, or
36:56
if they they are uh accepting a transplant
36:59
without transparency and traceability.
37:03
So this is a very uh very important
37:06
aspect that uh Congress should actually pursue.
37:09
And we're gonna follow this up.
37:10
We're gonna take a little break.
37:12
My guess is uh Dr.
37:13
Torston Trey, his great documentary is called Silent
37:16
Harvest, and China's organ genocide as a national
37:19
security threat.
37:23
More to come stay with us.
37:24
I'm Blanquita Kellum.
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38:57
Welcome back to the National Security Hour.
39:00
It's a very important program today about medical
39:04
ethics and the evil of organ harvesting.
39:07
Of course, we love our life.
39:09
We are grateful to live, but whose life
39:12
is more important?
39:14
Is your life more important than a stranger
39:16
that might have a kidney, a heart, a
39:17
liver, a lung?
39:19
We love our family.
39:20
We want them all to live.
39:22
But if we don't know someone, can we
39:23
casually say, well, I, you know, they're they're
39:25
kind of expendable.
39:26
I don't I don't need to know about
39:27
this.
39:27
I don't want to know about it.
39:28
I don't want to know where it came
39:29
from.
39:30
Would you go to China if you knew
39:32
you could get that organ to save a
39:34
life, but not want to know about the
39:36
person whose life was taken?
39:38
Well, it's going on, and there's a very
39:41
powerful documentary that has been produced by a
39:44
very brave man, Dr.
39:46
Torsten Trey.
39:48
Uh he's been nominated several times for the
39:50
Pulitzer and the Nobel Peace Prize, it's nominated
39:52
for everything.
39:54
And he's got this incredible organization that I'm
39:55
going to tell you about in just a
39:57
minute.
39:58
But the it's important to know the name
40:01
of this documentary.
40:04
It's called Silent Harvest, China's organ genocide as
40:07
a national security threat.
40:11
And it's uh it's very powerful.
40:14
He is the founder and executive director of
40:17
doctors against forced organ harvesting.
40:20
And it's called, I guess it DAFO, but
40:22
the thing that's interesting to me, Doctor, is
40:23
you said you have a couple of dozen
40:25
doctors in there.
40:26
You think every doctor in the planet would
40:28
want to join this because they go in
40:31
with a great sense of nobility of first
40:33
do no harm.
40:35
And you want to save lives, but then
40:37
do you put yourself on the level of
40:39
a Mengla, Dr.
40:41
Joseph Mengla, if you say, well, this person
40:44
counts, but this person doesn't.
40:46
That person's expendable, even if the government doesn't
40:49
like them, like China may feel that the
40:51
Fallen Gong is a threat.
40:54
Ethics would say, come on, it's the golden
40:55
rule.
40:58
Do unto others as you would do unto
40:59
them.
41:00
Your thoughts.
41:03
Absolutely right.
41:05
We have to um we have to take
41:08
action here because this otherwise, especially as doctors,
41:11
otherwise, our medical profession uh risks to become
41:13
an absurd practice.
41:16
You cannot kill a person to cure a
41:17
person.
41:19
That is that would be the end of
41:20
medicine.
41:22
And uh, in some cases, what we encountered
41:24
is when we talk to medical doctors, they
41:27
and um mentioned forced organizing China, they say
41:29
we don't have time for it.
41:31
We don't have time to um you know
41:33
look into the details.
41:35
So we give the basically the authority uh
41:38
of this topic to the um transplant organizations,
41:41
and this is something that that cannot that
41:43
is not right.
41:46
You you don't um you don't shift any
41:49
responsibility to your colleague and say, well, um,
41:52
you know, take care of this patient.
41:55
Yeah, you you would you wouldn't do that.
41:57
You would take care of your patient.
41:59
So there is a responsibility if the uh
42:00
There is a responsibility if the uh if
42:02
if the patient is in your in your
42:02
the patient is in your in your clinic
42:05
clinic or in a neighbor city or in
42:05
or in a neighbor city or in a
42:08
a far away in a different country, in
42:08
far away in a different country in our
42:10
our interconnected world, the the distance must not
42:11
interconnected world the the distance must not play
42:13
play uh a role in this decision.
42:13
um a role in this decision.
42:16
We have to we have to every doctor
42:16
We have to we have to every doctor
42:19
has uh basically asked to take responsibility to
42:19
has is uh basically asked to take responsibility
42:23
protect the medical practice.
42:23
to protect the medical practice.
42:26
Absolutely, and a quick question to you about
42:26
Absolutely, and a quick question to you about
42:28
how.
42:29
how many lives have been taken in this
42:32
process so far.
42:34
How many would you say a million people
42:37
have been killed or more or less?
42:39
How many people would you assess during all
42:42
these years of this forced organ harvesting?
42:46
Yeah, this is of course a very difficult
42:49
question because China does not release any relevant
42:51
data on this.
42:53
But if we if we take into consideration
42:57
that this practice uh lasted for over 20
43:00
years, 20 uh sorry over 25 years, and
43:03
if you know China at one point had
43:07
uh about 600 transplant centers, and if you
43:10
know that to maintain the the the to
43:13
make to maintain the ability to conduct transplantations,
43:17
there's a minimum number of transplantations where where
43:20
you that you have to conduct, otherwise your
43:23
skills get rusty, right?
43:27
So uh we believe over uh over this
43:30
quarter century more than a million people were
43:32
uh killed for the organs, probably maybe even
43:35
several million people.
43:38
Well, you think about um what happened in
43:40
World War II?
43:43
How many people died in the, you know,
43:45
they were in those concentration camps, they were
43:48
gassed, they were tortured, they were brutalized.
43:50
And later the world was shocked, and we
43:52
would say, never again.
43:54
It'll never happen again.
43:56
But it is happening again, and people are
43:58
averting their eyes, they don't want to get
44:00
involved.
44:02
Um when you want to talk about it,
44:04
you're kicked out of an American medical association
44:06
conference.
44:09
How do you gain the support of the
44:11
a medical community at large, not just America
44:13
but worldwide should have a strong ethic on
44:16
this?
44:19
Well, it's a it's uh tedious work, it
44:23
requires persistence and and also um uh patience
44:26
to to to achieve that.
44:30
So it is really like an effort one
44:32
by one, and sometimes we uh we uh
44:35
we are um have the chance to present
44:37
our data to a small uh society and
44:39
medical society, and then they pick it up
44:42
very quickly.
44:44
So it's it's not that our data is
44:47
somehow uh weak or insufficient.
44:50
That's not the case.
44:51
Usually when we talk to doctors uh within
44:54
10 minutes, they they understand something is wrong
44:56
in China.
44:59
And do they I mean how uh do
45:01
people that have these uh transplants?
45:03
Do they go back to China for medical
45:06
follow-ups, or do they go to an American
45:08
or an English or a you know, uh
45:11
a doctor from another country to get a
45:13
follow-up medical medical checkup to make sure that
45:16
the organs have been, you know, I guess
45:18
what you'd say uh adjusting to its new
45:21
body.
45:24
Well, uh what we know is that after
45:27
the uh operation, the many patients stay maybe
45:29
for three, four weeks in China and then
45:31
return home.
45:34
And um what we also learned is that
45:37
before this whole forced organ harvesting became public
45:40
in the media, the patients returned with a
45:43
letter with a doctor's letter that showed the
45:47
the procedure and who was uh the surgeon
45:50
and medication, but after after it became public
45:53
after 2006, the doctor the patients do not
45:56
return to their country with the letter.
45:59
So there is no trace, there's no trace
46:02
that the transplant even took place.
46:04
That who which doctor it was, which hospital.
46:07
But a doctor had to know the doctor,
46:09
uh you know, your family doctor, all of
46:11
a sudden you go in with the scar
46:13
where your heart is, or a scar where
46:15
your kidney is, or your you know, any
46:16
part of your body that needed the transplant,
46:18
they just don't ask the question.
46:20
They just say, Well, where'd you get that
46:21
done?
46:22
BQ, well, I have that done in Beijing.
46:25
They don't ask the question.
46:28
Well, I assume that um the patients are
46:30
aware that what they did is not right,
46:32
so they might actually go to a different
46:35
doctor and then just say, Well, I I
46:37
got this transplant like years ago, and then
46:39
they just take it into the record, and
46:41
it becomes like so that just kind of
46:43
I mean that's kind of bizarre to me,
46:46
because it would seem to me, especially if
46:48
you you okay, I can understand they would
46:50
go to another doctor, so they wouldn't want
46:52
to relay the details, and their regular doctor
46:55
just doesn't want to know, but we know
46:57
how the process goes with you know medical
46:59
operations.
47:01
I mean, I had a hip replacement.
47:03
I know that a doctor I might go
47:05
to is gonna know all my medical history,
47:07
regardless if I want them to or not,
47:09
they got it.
47:11
So I again I don't know how this
47:13
can remain hidden.
47:14
That's just surprises me.
47:17
Well, it it's probably right from the start.
47:19
The the patient is on a waiting list
47:21
here in the US, but then he becomes
47:23
desperate, and at that point, the the whole
47:25
cascade is going on.
47:27
He he is he's desperate, so he um
47:30
he uh thinks or wants to try different
47:33
ways to get to an organ, and then
47:35
he goes to hears about China, then he
47:38
goes to China, and he knows it's wrong.
47:41
So right from the beginning, when the patient
47:44
takes this um alternative path, he probably will
47:46
change a lot of things just to hide
47:49
it because he knows that that it's not
47:51
right.
47:54
Um have you had patients that admitted to
47:56
you, you've seen a lot of people around
47:58
the world that they had a transplant or
48:00
are we talking about?
48:03
Yes, we had we had doctors.
48:05
I so um maybe I heard it a
48:08
couple of times, but there were other doctors
48:10
who also in in Europe and on the
48:13
West Coast uh in California, they uh they
48:15
they talk with patients and all of a
48:18
sudden they they they mentioned that, yeah.
48:20
Um we we did this uh before the
48:22
the transplant.
48:24
And let me take you back to the
48:27
to the hill to the Congress, because you
48:29
know, we're right here in Washington DC, where
48:31
you have again it's not right versus left,
48:34
it should be right versus wrong.
48:36
Have you had support on having this type
48:39
of a discussion in the House of the
48:41
Senate, or is there any kind of bill
48:44
that's being passed through the House of the
48:46
Senate that relates to forced organ harvesting?
48:49
Yes, there is a bill, and um we
48:52
actually worked with congressmen maybe five started to
48:55
work with congressmen five or six years ago,
48:57
and then it always happened that uh there
49:00
That uh there was a change that the
49:00
was a change that the congressman was not
49:02
congressman was not re-elected, or there was an
49:03
re-elected, or there was an issue with minority
49:04
issue with minority or majority.
49:06
or majority, but now we found uh one
49:07
But now we found uh one congressman from
49:08
congressman from Pennsylvania uh Pennsylvania, uh Scott Scott
49:10
Pennsylvania uh Pennsylvania, uh Scott uh Scott Perry.
49:11
Perry.
49:14
He he took this on and he made
49:14
He he took this on and he made
49:16
it his topic.
49:16
it his topic, and he introduced he introduced
49:18
And he introduced he introduced a bill and
49:18
a bill and the bill passed unanimously in
49:20
the bill passed unanimously in the House.
49:21
the house.
49:23
Wow.
49:23
Wow.
49:23
And then we we we had an uh
49:23
And then we we we had an uh
49:25
an election and a new Congress, so then
49:25
an election and a new Congress.
49:26
we had uh we had to find a
49:27
So then we had uh we had to
49:28
new uh
49:29
find a new uh senator to um to
49:31
champion this bill.
49:33
First it was Senator Rubio in 2024, but
49:36
now it is uh Senator Um uh Cruz
49:38
from Texas who uh has pushed for this
49:41
bill on the Senate.
49:44
The the reason then the the issue came
49:46
another hurdle came up where the chairman of
49:48
the foreign relations committee said he wants to
49:51
have a bipartisan bill.
49:53
And I don't know where this came from
49:55
because this is uh human rights issue.
49:58
This is not a left or right.
49:59
This is uh basic, this should just pass.
50:02
And if they have majority, they should should
50:03
just pass it.
50:05
But he said we we want uh he
50:08
wants a um democrat on the bill.
50:10
And then after some time we found actually
50:13
uh Senator Senator Merkley from Oregon.
50:16
So now we have a bipartisan bill.
50:18
That was introduced by uh uh by both
50:20
parties.
50:23
Now I hear that the chairman from the
50:25
foreign relations committee has another requirement.
50:27
He's he says he wants to have more
50:29
co democratic co-sponsors.
50:32
So if you have uh for the listeners,
50:34
if you live in a state with Democrat
50:36
uh democratic senate.
50:38
Which is a dead uh which is a
50:40
red state or a blue state.
50:41
You that's yeah, uh-huh.
50:44
Yeah.
50:44
So uh call your senator, federal senator, actually
50:47
two of them, and ask them to co-sponsor
50:50
the Senate bill 40 oh nine.
50:53
It's 4009.
50:55
That bill is addressing the forced organ harvesting
50:58
and gives us leverage to when could it
51:00
come up?
51:02
How what are we looking for uh towards
51:04
on the issue of time?
51:07
Because you know, sometimes if it's if it
51:08
sits around too long, it just dies on
51:10
the vine.
51:12
So how about that?
51:14
I mean, do you do we need to
51:16
start calling members of the Senate or the
51:18
House on both sides of the aisle and
51:20
say, especially in the Senate, Bill 409?
51:24
Well, then the uh any type of bill
51:26
is only valid for one uh session in
51:28
the Congress.
51:30
That means only within two years.
51:32
So by the end of this year, yeah.
51:35
By the end of this year, in December
51:37
2026, this bill 4009 would expire, would be
51:40
uh would be called, basically.
51:43
And so, and we know it's an election
51:45
year, so my take uh is that we
51:47
need to pass this bill before the summer
51:49
recess.
51:51
Otherwise, it will and what about the White
51:52
House?
51:54
Where does the White House stand on this?
51:56
Do you have any conversation with the president
51:59
or anyone in the White House, even the
52:01
you know, the the surgeon general, how do
52:04
they have they weighed in on this?
52:08
Uh I have no uh no um you
52:11
know no no conversation with uh with administrative
52:14
people from the White House.
52:18
It's just seems like you know, that would
52:19
be good to be able to get one
52:21
of those senators like Rubio or who knows.
52:23
He's now now he's a cabinet member, but
52:25
uh Senator Cruz to talk to maybe the
52:28
surgeon general because you got the biggest doctor
52:30
in the country, and if he takes a
52:32
position against organ harvesting, that would send a
52:34
very strong signal.
52:37
That's that's a very good suggestion.
52:40
I gonna take that with me.
52:42
Um we it it I what I heard
52:45
is that the White House is very much
52:48
against human trafficking and forced organ harvesting, it
52:50
should be a no-brainer to bring it up.
52:53
But um it it it requires, as I
52:55
mentioned before, it requires courage to speak.
52:58
And that means it's like the You know,
53:01
if if there's a if there's an Ebola
53:03
outbreak in Africa, no nobody um has concerns
53:05
to talk about it.
53:08
If you talk about forced organ harvesting that
53:10
kills even more people than then an abola
53:13
outbreak, then nobody talks about it.
53:16
Not the WHO, not no governments, and it
53:18
is why what's the reason?
53:21
Because it is uh uh related to China.
53:24
So you know at this point, we need
53:25
courage.
53:27
Well, and in talking about courage, I don't
53:29
know if you've ever seen the one of
53:32
the most famous movies from America that came
53:34
out in 1939, and that was the Wizard
53:36
of Oz.
53:39
Okay, the Wizard of Oz with the late
53:40
great Judy Garland.
53:42
And in there they had the cowardly lion,
53:43
right?
53:45
They had the cowardly lion who looks like
53:47
ferocious, but he was a coward.
53:49
And uh the question they'd always say to
53:51
him, Well, what have they got that you
53:53
ain't got talking to the line?
53:55
And he says, courage.
53:58
And the fact of the matter is we
54:00
don't want to be cowardly lions when it
54:03
comes to the issue of organ harvesting, because
54:05
everybody has a right to exist, and somebody
54:08
shouldn't be killed just because they suit the
54:10
needs of some other individual.
54:13
That's not ethical, it's unprincipled.
54:15
And what we don't understand is so when
54:18
when we started with our work, our focus
54:20
was of course the victims in China.
54:23
But over the past years, I realized that
54:26
China is eroding our medical system.
54:29
It is set sending it established collaborations with
54:31
uh with Chinese hospitals.
54:34
We have discussions in the transfer field that
54:36
we didn't have 20 years ago where where
54:38
we are discussing if we can take organs
54:41
from our own prisoners and stuff.
54:43
So we the system has been eroded.
54:46
Our our own value system is now at
54:48
stake.
54:50
And we have to understand that speaking up
54:52
against forced organ harvesting is actually us speaking
54:55
up for our own uh value system and
54:57
ethical standards.
55:00
Well, that's we have to protect it.
55:02
Well, that's what we're born with.
55:04
We're we're born with a sense of ethics
55:05
that we need to honor because you know
55:07
we say it can't happen to us, but
55:08
it could.
55:10
Let me ask you now about this great
55:12
documentary, Silent Harvest, the courage to speak up
55:14
here.
55:17
Uh, where can people see it?
55:19
Where can they go to to see the
55:20
documentary?
55:21
Because I I know that it's excellent.
55:23
I've heard from a lot of people that
55:25
have said it's just amazing.
55:28
When we produced this film, we we took
55:31
several uh aspects into consideration.
55:34
Should we make it um uh a film
55:36
for movie theaters where people have to pay,
55:38
should we place it on the website with
55:39
a paywall?
55:42
We decided to make it available accessible to
55:44
everyone for free.
55:46
It's on our website on the film website,
55:49
silent harvestmovie.com, and everyone can watch it for
55:51
free.
55:54
And it's worth it because especially if you're
55:56
one of the people that has a young
55:58
person that's interested in medicine.
56:00
Interested in medicine.
56:01
If you're a young of a person considering
56:01
If you're a young of a person that
56:03
the relevance of maybe going and getting an
56:03
you're considering the relevance of maybe going and
56:05
organ that that you want to be have
56:06
getting an organ that that you want to
56:07
harvested, this gives you the insight of what's
56:09
be have harvested, this gives you the insight
56:10
at stake.
56:11
of what's at stake, the value, the ethics.
56:12
The value, the ethics.
56:14
First do no harm.
56:14
First, do no harm.
56:16
I looked at it, the golden rule.
56:16
I looked at it, the golden rule.
56:18
Do unto others as you would have them
56:18
Do unto others as you would have them
56:19
do unto you.
56:19
do unto you.
56:20
Dr.
56:20
Dr.
56:20
Torsten Trey, I can't tell you how pleased
56:20
Torston Trey, I can't tell you how pleased
56:23
I am that you took time to join
56:23
I am that you took time to join
56:25
us here on the national security hour.
56:25
us here on the National Security Hour.
56:28
And we want to make sure that everyone.
56:28
And we want to make sure that everyone
56:30
checks out the documentary.
56:32
Thank you so much, and we'll look forward
56:34
to talking with you again, my friend.
56:36
Thank you very much for having me.
56:38
That's it for this time.
56:39
We'll talk again soon on the National Security
56:42
Hour on the America Out Loud Network.
56:45
I'm Blanky the Cullow.