Latest / The Occult Rejects / The Kabbalah with Frater Jin- Kether and Chockmah

Transcript

The Kabbalah with Frater Jin- Kether and Chockmah · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen. What what's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: What you.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects Sorrow a little bit
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: late here, that was my fault. I was talking to
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Jim before the show, but we finally got it going.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: And today you just got me Cardinal Electric Head, and
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: we got Frida Jin with us, and we will be
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: talking about this Apernal triad and the Kabbala Jin. In
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: case people don't know who you are yet, which I'm
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: sure they do know, Please let everybody know what is
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: up with Jena Ninja.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Electric card and I'll appreciate that. In
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: stry So, I am Jenna NINJAA Ho's a show called
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Threshold Saints. It's a show about metamagic speculative ontologies. And
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: also we'll say vice president or co president of the
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Gray Lodge, which now has a YouTube channel, and we
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: are in the midst of doing some really interesting speculative
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: archaeology series. So that will be Friday Live. We're doing
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: a roundtable on speculative archaeologies of the New World, So America.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: So everybody brings their weirdest, craziest conspiracy theory and they.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Tell us what it is abut America, and that is
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: in your spaces.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, everybody can follow me or any of the other
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: co hosts at Wouknrie Born you'll see I post the
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: posters all the time or at Threshold Saints, which is
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the show count and that's also the account on ig
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: and I also post the spaces and the posters to that.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: And so I'll have an episode with Simon from Bramastra,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: who've nick he's a great dude, and so i have
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: an episode with him coming out, and also an episode
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: with Ashley from Union of announ same changer of So
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: look forward to that, and I've got so much coming up.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I'm a little behind this week, but yeah, it's rock
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: and rolling, and I appreciate you invited me to be here.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I love talking about Kabalah. It's been something that Yeah,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: it's definitely like been a part of my Twitter presence
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: personality and also a big part of my show. And
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I've always said like a big part of that is
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: from you and how you were an early sort of
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: just interralocutor of Kabala in the occult podcasting sphere, like
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: nobody really discussed it the way you did, and so
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: when you did, I was like, yes, this is like
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: someone who has like understanding, this is someone who has
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: like gone up the tree. And from those experiences, I
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, I actually have gone up. I didn't
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: really realize it, Nick, I'm just being honest. At first
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I knew I had, but it's it didn't it didn't
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: have boundaries. Maybe it didn't like it wasn't cohesive like
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the memory.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Gotcha, yes, y yeah yeah.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Then studying the tree and studying like the Jewish cabalaisy
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: gave me a lot better grasp of what I experienced,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: what I saw, and how to sort of understand it.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: And then but I just want to say I've always
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: said this is that listening to you on some of
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: your old series Scarlet Woman number one obviously that really
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: helped me. So it's really interesting to do this full circle.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And thank you so much for writing me.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: No so no, thank you. That's that's great that you
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: even settle that. I really appreciate that. And the Scarlet
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Woman is another series that h I mean technically I
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: already did the kabbala a while back ago with Looks,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: and I wanted to redo it with you. Even the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Scarlet Horse series is something that I've thought about redoing.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: So you know, maybe we could all be a part
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: of that again in the future at some point, you know,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: because I even could say just from my own experiences
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: and learning, I mean that was three years ago when
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I probably did the Scarlet Horror or the other thing.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've learned and grown even from there, so
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: be a totally different look at it again.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: So what you said, I think is super important just
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: to like lay the foundation of what I'm going to
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: talk about at least, but probably also what you're going
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: to talk about is that your perspective does change, and
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: my perspective has also changed. So I've done the Cabala
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: and Tntra series with you that's six and a half hours,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: like straight up like serious Cabala Tontra discussion. I did
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: the eleven part series with Lee that was obviously how
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I started podcasting, and so that was also having sufferatic
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: kind of experiences as I recorded, as you've discussed when
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: doing Scarlet Horror. So I've had that where you've recorded,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: but I wasn't totally aware, let's say, like I was
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: kind of like, yeah, they were magical experiences and I
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: was having them but I wasn't totally aware that I
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: was having them. It was more I would listen back
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: in recording it and be like, oh, I actually understand
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent when I was talking about I can
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: see it in my mind's eye, So I get it.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: It's your perspective changes, and the tree should change. It
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: should be very dynamic. It should not. I think this
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: is just me, Jen, but I think it should be dynamic,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: and I think it shouldn't be so fixed. And I
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: think when you were talking about Supernel, Triad, Saturn and Benna,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: that is fixed. But maybe the Ketter and Hookema are
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: not necessarily malleable, but they're more unfixed. They're more maybe clockwork.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Maybe they can, you know, change position. So I think
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: it's an interesting idea. At least keep in mind that
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: it can be flexible and different people have different ways
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: to describe it. That's super important too.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I mean even just when you did the Contra series,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: just like the art that you even showed something completely
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: different than I would most people would even be used
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: to in occultism my opinion, you know, So even it
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: was just it's interesting to see how it was, you know,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: how it's looked at or presented in other ways.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: So that's the whole thing, is that I think even
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: with ma like we did the show with Mario the
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: other day, and it like dawned on me that all
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: of us sort of recognize, at least in our own
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: kind of languages, that maybe there is a kind of well,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: there's different ways to describe it. Maybe you say primordial,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: maybe you say perennial. I saw Solar in the chat,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: so I'll shout him out. We had a discussion about
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: traditionalism versus primordialism in his episode on Evla, So it's
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: really interesting actually, But yeah, I think that that was
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: what I came to that understanding when we were on
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: the roundtable, is that, yeah, we kind of all recognize
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: that maybe there is a I'm going to use a
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: very tulemic term, aonic shift, and yeah, and so I
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: think that we kind of have to also acknowledge that
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: maybe Kabala exists in that kind of shifting landscape of
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: how we perceive the world, rather than saying it's fixed.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Like I know a lot of people, especially when I
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: first started doing the spaces and discussing it, like you
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: were kind of like a Maverick and just doing it
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: on your show, whereas I had to kind of I
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: kind of did in my own way translate that into Twitter,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: so I would talk about it and people were like
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: very resistant because it was like, oh, you're associated with
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: the Jays and this. And then I quickly made friends
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: with Saschke. It brought him up many times on the show.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: He's obviously been on my show a few times, and
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: he introduced me to this idea of using sailor Moon
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: to discuss Kabala. And honestly, it was as important for
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: me to have that connection and shout out Saschke as
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: it was for me to listen to you to become like,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm like a mediocre podcast or
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: whatever now, but it has helped me so much, like
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: that idea that I could translate kabbala or tantra because
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: maybe those are the same thing. I've said this before,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: maybe you can translate that into pop culture, but also
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: maybe pop culture is also relaying those kinds of suffaratic ideas.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: So that made it a lot more easier for me
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: to start speaking about it more openly instead of being like, oh,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: this is like the fore an audience and magicians like
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: they people weren't you know, people aren't normy. So they
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: and I don't mean that in a pejorative, they just
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: couldn't instantly recognize that when I would drop cabalistic language
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: or oh yeah, so I started incorporating these kinds of
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: more people love to do discuss it in context to
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: anime especially, or people seem to give me the most
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: feedback when I do that, and so I just yeah,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: that has helped me a lot. And so people think
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: that you have to be some great magician too and
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: study cabal for fifty years. And maybe that's true. And
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I agree that the stages were very extremely like they
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: were magicians. They were like writing the drive to s
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: neck likes to say, they were going all the way
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: and you can hear it, you can read like you
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: can read. I'm a big fan of Rabbi Cordovero Ramuk
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: and his book The Orchard of Pomegrants. Yeah, Orchard of Pomegrants.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I believe I might be mixing up with.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: The Oh yeah, hey, I was going to say, wait,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: was that Israeli who reads?
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Well, there, one is the garden of pomegrands. One is
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: the orchard. So I always forget and my Hebrew is
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: very bad, as everybody knows who's come to the spaces,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: So I'm not going to pretend. But it was a
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: really foundational, really important book. I bought them off eBay,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: costs like nine hundred bucks. Oh yeah, thirteen thirteen volumes
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: in English, and so I as I was doing a
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: TNTRA series, I read through them and then in preparation
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: to come on and do it with you, so I
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, this is really interesting, and so how
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: can we bring this like medieval knowledge and update it?
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Sort of? I know, I rambled for a really long time.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but I wanted to bring it into twenty
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: twenty five and like uh and like let people know
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: that it's out there, Like it's not just in those books,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Like you don't have to buy books from eBay or
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: a Books or whatever like an it's aquarium book dealer.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: It's actually there and it's actually somewhat preserved and somewhat understandable.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: So I always found that really interesting. Just that it's
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: sort of been my Kabala evolution is how I would say.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: It's like started from a very traditionalist kind of perspective. Like, yes,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: we have to not talk about this thing in Buddhism
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: or this thing in contra, but we're going to try
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: and present it in like a very traditional, very middle
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: pillar way. And I still try and do that, but
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I realized in twenty twenty five again it is you
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: have to kind of update for your audience.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, I even think with Kabala, it's like
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: even Haughts, it's like, where do I even start to
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: try to explain this to people who don't understand that anything,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: you know, then where it's like, uh, there's even been
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: times in the past where I didn't want touch it
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: because I was like too worried about like, oh, all
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: the people are going to like think I don't know
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: what the fuck I'm talking about. And then it's like
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not to sound like an asshole, but it it's like,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, all right, I'm kind of like half in
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the conspiracy world and half in the occult world, and
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: like nothing nothing the conspiracy world, they know jackshit about
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: fucking Cabala, So why should be intimidated? And then I
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: half to people that are in the occult fucking community,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: no jack shit about Kabali anyways, So why the funck.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Should I be intimidated? You know? If anything, I just
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: gotta be worried about. My lesson is understanding what the
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: fuck I'm even saying.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, this was even the genesis of the Gray
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: launch was I needed to be able to speak about
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: it in the way that you spoke about it. I
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: needed to be free and open in my expression of it,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: especially when I was really deep in and so there
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: was a group of people interested in this kinds of
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: crazy ideas that I would spend sometimes or weave, as
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Joshua the Brash likes to say, you know, and so
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: that's basically what it was. I was like, I have
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: to actually like solar is high level and but maybe
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: not wasn't quite where I was at that moment. But
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: the rest of them, it's not that they were bad,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: but I had to kind of bring them up. It's understanding.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: That's how I felt, and so that was how I started.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: It was like, I need to be able to relay
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: it in a way that makes sense. So that's what
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I that's what I try to do, so I totally
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: relate to what you're saying. Is like so many people
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: in the occult world, they will say they do not
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: know Kabala. I know you had a guest on, a
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: very important guest who said that he didn't. Whether I
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: believe that or not, it's irrelevant, but I'm not sure
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: that that's one hundred percent true. And because for me,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Kabala is like as a foundational map to explain sort
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: of all metaphysics.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I'll even put it this way onto Sorry dh, Yeah,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: just real quick to interrupt you. Sorry, I'll even put
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: it this way. If you have you go to a
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: lodge or a place that has a checkerboard floor, it's
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: attached to Kabala. So that's my opinion.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I agree. I think it's as simple.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just wanted to add that.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I think you can map all systems to the treaty,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: and I think you can also look at the treat
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: in order to reach different conclusions. Like people like are
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: very familiar with Hegel and Hegelian dialectic like that, Yes,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: that is Kabbala, that's Kabala. He's a very good Kabbalist.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean I agree with him. I don't agree
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: with every you know, Sage Master, a modern American magician.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I don't agree with all of the many of them.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: But that's okay. I can still use some of the
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: things they say and sort of you know, helps refine
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: my perspective, is what I would say. So a lot
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: of these things that like conspiracy people do talk about
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: are kabbalistic. They may not know a lot of them
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: probably don't know.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, I would agree with that. And you
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: know what's another thing too, I think I mentioned earlier,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I just just throw this out there, and it's probably
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: like preaching to the choir or like nobody really that
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: listens to our show is probably need to hear this.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: But like you know, you can also get a lot
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: of people who discredit this shit because they just hate
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: fucking Jewish people. And it's like, well, if you want
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: to understand what just supposed a bad guys doing to you,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: don't you want to understand? It's just I don't know,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: like they'll just credit it saying, oh, let's say satanic
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Jewish shit, And I was like, oh, okay, that's all
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: it is. This is sid is that old Dixon demons?
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: So this is something nick that I've personally encountered many times,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: especially with my own show and also Twitter, not to
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: reference and be like a very online person. But I
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: just think it's important, like what you just said, just
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: because something has an origin, those people actually are very
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: good cabalist. You want to talk about people who are
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: very excellent calls, Jewish people are actually quite good cabals,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And so it's okay to learn from people who actually
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: understand uh maybe deeper things. Doesn't mean you have to
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: agree with them politically or you know, uh, it doesn't
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: mean anything. That's what I'm saying. So I personally think
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: that they are good akbal, So I'm going to read
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: their texts. But I agree with you that often the
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: knowledge of kabala does get maybe intentionally hidden under this
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: kind of label of aspersion or which is a cabalistic
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: act to accuse like something of being satanic, of that
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: which you also are m it's actually the klipu of Geverra.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I know we're not talking about Gevra today, but yeah,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: you know it is a it is an interesting like
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: cabalistic note is that. Yeah, absolutely too. So don't discard things.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's it's useful. I think you have to.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: That's what wisdom science is, right, like explore it, test
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: it for yourself.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I totally, but uh, I mean, I guess
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: we'll get into it. If that's okay with you.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: We'll yes, absolutely, I'm sorry, we don't. That's all I
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: do a long intro.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: That's totally funny. Do We're good. We're good. Like I said,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: if the stakes too long, we'll just do a part
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: two or just you know, leave whatever and which covered
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: in the next one. Because that is that is the
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: point of hopefully of this is that we will actually
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: do the whole tree. It's just that I was telling Jen.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I was like, I really don't think we could do
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: the whole tree in one episode and do it justice.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I'm able to do the supernal triad first.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: So I think this makes a lot of sense. I
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: think that because of like as I explain how I've
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: come through like different understandings, maybe not even greater, but
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I think this is the This is something that Nick
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: and I used to kind of bicker, not bicker, but
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: in a funny way that Nick would always talk about
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: descending the tree and I would always talk about us
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: sending the tree. And so but now I'm actually ready
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: because it took me a long time to sort of
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: accept the descending directionality but now I'm actually okay with it.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: I've sort of like reconciled that paradox. So I think
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: it's perfect timing for us to do this pernal triad.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Good for you? Uh yes, so I guess, Cather, I
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: don't know. I guess. So if you want to start
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: off with that, maybe how you look at it, and
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: then I'll go whatever. I know you also have videos
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: to me, so that's right, how you wanted to thought
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: it off. Let's put pressure on.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: It, no Keller, Okay, so let's talk about Ketner. It's love,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: it's white, that's usually how it's considered, but it can
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: actually have two other primary colors. Now Deon Fortune talks
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: about like the gold flashing and the assia the lower
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: world component. That's okay, Yes, I agree with that. I
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: do agree with that, but I actually think that there
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: is a pink component and that is why that shows
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: off in.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Different Yes, yes, yes, that is interesting.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: So that's my slight difference in interpretation. And it does
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: make sense in a ton trick way which I won't
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: get into, but it it there is something there. I think.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I think that that you can make you can make
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: an argument for that, and so and people tend to
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: also overemphasize the gold elements. I've noticed this a lot,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: like modern magicians, modern cabalists, when they're talking about catter,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: they tend to overemphasize that. But I think it's important
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: to say that it's it's beyond materiality. So it's the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: you could say it's the breath of God. Even the
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: expression into the world. Well, and you know, it's like
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: it's so pristine, it's so infinite, it's so powerful and
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: it's potential that it's sort of ineffable in a way.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: And I know that other cabalists like to say, like, oh,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I I'm so and so for those are really getting
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: more into the ineffable. But I like to say that
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Keather is at least the point of like ineffable sort
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: of realization.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some people say it's like the prim oral point
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: of like k creation.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I agree with that. That makes sense to me in
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: a tontric way. The goddess who I placed there in
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: our series that I did with you, I said, is Chinamasa.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: So he is the goddess of both creation and destruction
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: at the same time, a paradox.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting just to throw this in there,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: you know, again not saying that the guy was onto anything.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I'll just throws it in there. But you know, even
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Crowley he looked at I think as pain as being
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: associated with Kether and Earth or Kether and Melcouth, saying
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: that it's like, you know, I mean if you look
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: at the tree, I mean, it'll comes from Kether anyway.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: So if you consider that, I guess like God or
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to look at it. It's in every
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: sphere it regardless. But I do you find kind of
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: like what you had just said. I do find it interesting.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: It is almost maybe the same idea.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: So I have to say I agree with Croley in
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: this instance, and I also agree with what you said
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: is like there is so it depends. So every sufferer
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: you could say, has five densities or seven. You've talked
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: about this many times, and I've talked about it quite
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: a few times as well. But different systems have different preferences.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: So I agree with though that that idea of the
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: five density system is just an easier way to sort
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: of reconcile the numerical issues that arise with seven, and
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: not that seven is an imperfect number, but you get
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: it's you're supposed to be clean. It's everything's it's very autistic, right,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: so you want it to all be clean, numbers, clean,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: names of God, whatever. So the fifth density is really
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: daf as well. That's how originally in like the older
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: older Cabala, they would understand death is in every sphere
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: and it's at that fifth density, and it's that sort
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: of crystalline blue color. So I agree that it's it's there.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: It's not necessarily its own separate suffer, but for counting purposes,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: it can be really useful to have a to have
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: it appear on the tree. And I think that you
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: do experience it. I think it's a lot to do
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: with our consciousness too, So I think that that's why
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I like to place it in the fifth and I
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: think that that's a it's just a neater, tidier system.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: But of course some people do teach the seven a
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: density method, and that's perfectly okay.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even for people who mean, I know,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: like even on the you mentioned it before with the colors,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: how's there's the uh oh god, was it a what's
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the first one in the four densities of the spheres
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: with the colors? I know, it goes a b ya.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: That's how I remembered, sire or is it a? And
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: then there's bread, then yets and then whenever I always
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: get those two confused. I mean, even right there, that
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: shows that there's at least I mean, there's four different
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: colors or I guess ideas of each spirit to begin with.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Just just looking at a cabalistic map, you'll see that
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: on some of them. So I mean, just right there,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: it shows that there's different densities or ideas. I've even
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: wondered because of that. It's getting a little bit off,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you know, on the rest of the tree. But you know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: when you start getting into the whole color aspect, is
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: there like four different like densities or whatever to like
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: kind of show the whole frequency change into going into
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: something else, into a different color as That sounds weird,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: but you know something with that, I think in the
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: densities it's it's more of like maybe maybe somewhat of
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: like the path going between each sphere. I wonder if
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: that has something to do with it, like to change
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: and be from one thing to the next.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: So I think this makes a lot of sense. I
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: think this a lot of makes a lot of sense experientially,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: and I also think it makes sense in the more
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: medieval Cabala. I think this is what Ramic would argue,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: is that the paths are found in the suffer through
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: the experiences. Yes, so exactly what Nick's saying is like, yeah,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I would agree with that too. Rather than they just
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: appear they're no, I think it actually has a lot
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: more to do with our consciousness, how we perceive and
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: also control what is happening.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes look at the pats. It's almost like the
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: alchemy between the views.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I agree. You can look at the there's
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: some Jewish texts that show like the letters traveling through
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: the sephra, like through the density of the four worlds,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: like Nick was talking about, And so the paths really
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: represent like the the aggregates of like you need a
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: vessel to contain something, and so the word is it
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: can be a letter, but it can also be light,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: and it can also be sound, but you need a
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: vessel to sort of travel through from one sepherra to
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: the next. So later on they started mapping the letters
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: directly onto the paths, but that's not really how it
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: was originally understood. It's really about light traveling through the paths,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: not really focusing on the paths. But that's a more
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: hermetic exercise, right, It's very hode like to say, oh,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: I want to understand this thing that I'm seeing, this
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: thing that I'm creating.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I agree with that. Uh, Keither, there was some things
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: that I just you know, before you go on, you see,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I was, you know, when you mentioned the crown, I
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: met the crown. We were talking about gold before, and
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: kether is considered a I think Hebrew for crown, so
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: like even that whole uh, Like, I guess the you're
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: talking about, like the gold flecked in there or whatever
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the gold is I think is mixed in with u
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: kether And like one of the things I even wondered,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: like if that is even kind of why they even
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: call a crown in a sense because there is gold
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: flecked in there. I don't know, like how you were
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: saying that people consider you know, when they go on
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: about the gold with Keather, I think maybe that might
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: have something to do with it. Maybe, But even Keather,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: I know has also have you ever like came across
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: where they try to explain it as like a crystallization.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Interesting that you bring this up nick because in contra
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: we would describe that as adamantine, which can mean diamond thunder,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: so like a sort of compressive process. I'm not you'll
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: have to forgive me. I'm not Ricardo. So this is
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: like this natural okay, well beyond me, but it's a
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: it's a it's an adomantizing process between lightning and like meteorite,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: iron or other alchemical metals, specifically with metal, but with
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: metal and lightning. And it's also about pressure. So sometimes
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: they'll make like a golden furnace. It's very common in
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Daoism or like in Tibet, they use like a cremation
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: furnace or whatever. So yes, I agree that the goddess
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: who goes there, she wears a crown said to be
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: of adamantine. So the idea is the flashing of gold
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: isn't really gold. It's actually like the color of stainlessness.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: That's how it's more described in a tontic way. But
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: it is flashing metallic, but it's not necessarily gold. It's
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: more pristine. It's more like white. But there is something
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: just like with a with light. If you've ever seen
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: a Chambarro movie, this is a great metaphor for this
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: is when they do the shot where the samurai holds
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: his sword and the sword kind of flashes in the
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: moonlight or in the diegetic lighting, like in the camera lighting.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: That's the same. That's kind of the idea for me.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know, what do you think, Nick.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: You know what?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I started thinking about us Unfortunately got sidetracked and started
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: to think about Mother with the whole crystal thing. I
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: don't know if you ever saw that movie, how they
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: actually have the crystal in there and the sorry think
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: You know, it makes sense, right, because that is kind
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: of the idea. It is like diamond. It's like the
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: transmutation from diamond into thunder. Like it's very like hoad
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: nets off, but at the highest order. You could say,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: and maybe that is what Kelen is also like you
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: can say, it's an expression of all those dialogs, interactions,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: those like the paths between the suffra. It's expressed. I
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: kind that's how I always used to see it. Now,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: as I said, I'm more now I'm comfortable going down
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: the tree as well. But I think if you look
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: at it from looking upwards, which is the inverse to
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: the Hebrew way, So the Hebrew way is you lower
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: your crown, your actual head, in submission to receive the
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: knowledge or to receive God's love. In tntra, it's completely
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: the opposite. It's looking up at the crown in defiance.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I like that one thing. If you even find interesting
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: with the whole, like crystal, using crystal kind of as
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: like a you know, a way to explain it. You're
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: going to get all those colors emanating from it, you know,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: like you get that with crystals anyway, the colors in
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: there when you shine light into it. So, I mean
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting to think about.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: No, this is this is a great this is a
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: great kind of segue I guess into something Vanessa said.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: So she said, do you think it takes death the
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: combination of both to reach Keather? And so different people
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: have different ideas of this. Kenneth Grant would have said,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: if you go to death, you can go all the
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: way like you're gone, like you're out of the you know,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: you're out of the black cu matrix or whatever. Some
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: people say, I can see that too, and it does
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: actually make sense, and so I'm okay with that. Some
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: people say that if you go to Keather, you don't
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: need to go outside because that is outside. It's like
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: the sort of like we're coming back, falling back down,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: but we have the we carry the experience with us
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: or people who have been up there, so or some
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: people have said that it can be like a Tracy
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: twinmon and we'll shout out Lisa obviously is like the
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: you know, the World Archipelago, the hyperspace Kingdom. It's like that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: It was a Tracy's idea, was like the trans Uranian
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: and so we'll talk about this a little later when
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: we show the sailor moon videos. But there's an idea
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: that maybe cather and Uranus. Obviously the planets are the
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: least density, maybe not even among the four. Maybe they're
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: the klopathic density. That's an interesting way I've sort of
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: been exploring thinking about it, like Nasauce space Cabala quote unquote,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: just an idea, but you know, because they are aggregates,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: like planets are physical aggregates, they're physical beings. Sepher are
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: empty space or negative space. Excuse me, So what is
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: the inverse of negative space? Is something physical dense made
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: of stone and ice.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Are a nice stone and nice Well, one thing I
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: did want to even throw in there too before I'm
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: sure we'll get into some of the other associations. But
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: even the god name for this is a Hea, which
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: is mean I am. That's kind of like a reflects
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: pure essence and existence in the buying being. And I
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: even like wonder, like you know, Kether, it does get
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the number one with it, so I do wonder about
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: like technically that's like I don't know if like you've
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: heard kind of Mario go on with the poles and holes,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: but it's like kind of giving that sphere number one
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: is a pole in a hole.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so it goes. It's really interesting because in
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: as I said in TNTRA, there's the goddess is the
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: goddess of paradox. So she's actually standing upon a copulating
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: couple if you look at the iconography, and you can
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: also say in a Buddhist way, so this is a
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: more Buddhist understanding, not an Indian toutric understanding. But she's
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: standing on herself. So it is very much like you
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: are saying, and like Brent is saying, once you're at Keather,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: you're back in Malkuth exactly. It is kind of the
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: hyperspace Kingdom, and I agree with what Solar said, going
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: to dat is like walking up to a mirror on
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: clearly consciousness. It's kind of a trapsy as a fixed place.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: I agree. So it's like, but you have to reconcile
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: both experiences, right, It can't just be like you can't
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: just focus primacy on death or primacy on Kether. Obviously
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Kether is the one, but as Brent said, it's also
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: the ten. So like when Mario's talking about that, for me,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: we reconcile it always with a male and a female polarity.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: That's how it always works. There's no real room for devancy.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Oh you know what's really interesting in like an edge
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: lord way, I'm just that's how I think of it.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: No, No, I get it, I get it. I mean
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: it is even interesting. I mean again, I guess it
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: would be an extra zero. But I mean, if you
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: look at Cather, it's like one on a sphere that's
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: one in a zero, and then the reflection is malt Kouth,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: which is the tense sphere, which is another poll in
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: a hole. That's right now. If you're an add like
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: I guess another whatever, it could be one hundred. But
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: you know, what I'm saying. It still has that. Yeah,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: it's interesting to think.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: About, absolutely. And it's also because the zero is what
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: it's a later edition from the Sanskrit text, and it's
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: also an empty number, so very much there's something very
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: sufferatic about a zero just as it is. And it
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: also is something very feminine about that because, as we've
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: often said on the show and again shut out Lisa,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: but also all the times's I heard me say this,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: women are less dense than men. They just are. So
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: they're a little more sepharatic, you could say, by nature.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean everyone. It just as a rule, you
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: could say, but rules are always meant to be broken.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I agree that zero is really important.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I like to think of it as you said this,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, he gets it. There's both
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: expressions in the tree and every suffer And I think
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: that this is where a lot of magicians go wrong.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: They just focus on either what we would call like
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: the shock d or the female component. Obviously this is
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: a very powerful way to travel through the densities. But
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: then some will only focus on like the male deities
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: or this pantheon, or they'll mix it all together. And
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I don't always think that that's the most useful either.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: And I think it goes along with what we were
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: saying about colors, like different densities, the deeper the density. Yes,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: it's it should be more difficult and like emotionally phenomenologically,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: but it also should be uh, you should be actually
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: losing the preconceptions of before, like the kinds of like
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: the husks, like my famous thing, I well famous whatever
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: that I said, like combusting the husks or breaking the husks.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Is that that's what it is. That's what going through
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: the densities. So you're kind of letting go of the
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: preconceptions of before. So that's oh yeah, yeah, So I
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: think that's really important to think about with death, is
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: that like it is about Yeah, it's an infinite place
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: of rag put, It's an infinite place of like being
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: expansive consciousness. It's not limited, and Kether isn't necessarily limited,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: but maybe Keather is reflexive.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I would even say even with Doth sometimes through my
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: experiences I had I should you did that a little
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: bit too, you know how I've said, oh, like when
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: you open up your eyes, you'll know shit, you didn't know.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I had even maybe attributed to that is that, like
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: you know, that's your experience have to coming back too,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: is you know, the wisdom or understanding? I forgot what
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: is associated with that again? Which what is uh doth again?
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Because I know wisdom is choke on understanding is, but
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: not what is knowledge?
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Doth knowledge?
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Or knowing? I mean if you see that again? For me,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of things that once I had
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: in my experience, certain things weren't faiths anymore, just they
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: were knowings. So that's why I had kind of got
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I wondered if even doth you know applies to after
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: the magicians made his journey and he's coming back.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I think it does. Personally, I think it exists, like
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: I think it's if for someone who's made the experience,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: I think to have doth on the tream makes complete sense,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: and I would include it if I was like constructing
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: my own. But I think for beginners or like people
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: just learning, I'm not sure that it it's necessarily useful
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: because then they look at it as like a place
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: that you go rather than a place that you kind
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: of come to through wisdom and understanding.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Gotcha, Uh, if you don't mind, I think I'll just
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: even I'll read off some of my associations.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: You just get them absolutely.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: I had mentioned before again the god name. Now again
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: this just goes to how Jin mentioned before. Each sphere
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: has four densities. It normally goes like the god name
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: for that sphere that it will go archangel, and then
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: an angelic order, and then like the mundane chakra or
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: whatever god name for this would be. Again I mentioned
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: a hey, a, I am the archangel. I don't know
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: if this was someone that you ever got into, but
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Metatron is associated with the with Cather, you're kind of
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: supposed to be, like, you know, Gareth Knight is somebody
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: that I him and the Unfortune I would refer to
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: sometimes when it comes to cabalistic stuff. I read both
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: their books, Gareth Knights, so I thought was better because
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: he goes into the pants. It's a fucking gigantic book.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: And I mean most people would say that, I mean,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: he presides that Metatron presides over the whole tree of
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: life as well as Cather because he's at the top.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: But that is technically kind of even like how I
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: looked at it, like you know, the head motherfucker before
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: you actually get the cut.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: So I think that that's a totally valid way to
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: look at it. I think there is so when we
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: did the Book of Enoch series, you, Robbie and I,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: it dawned on me that they believe, at least the
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: people who practice the Enochi and stuff, that you, you
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: too can be Enoch, like you too can be Metatron.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: You two can reach apotheosis. And of course in magic,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: this is like a very common idea, right, but maybe
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: it's not that's spoken about in polite circles that you
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: can sort of reach apotheosis or transcend like your limitations.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: But I actually think that that's an interesting way to
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: also look at Metatron. It's not like he is you
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: but not you of right now.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: I actually be totally honest with you when it comes
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: to the trial life. And I've even said this about
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: certain gods were just like even in their stories, if
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: you're going to go have a magical experience and there's
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: certain things going on and with you spiritually or even
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: inside your body, you are you're going to become those
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: characters like you will be Medatron before you cross the Abyss,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: like I think you do take on these aspects. It's
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: just a way to describe it, and they give it
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: a name, but it is an experience that you will
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: have yourself. I think a lot. So like when you're
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: saying you can become Medatron, yeah, I think you do
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: before before you're blass love. I even think like, oh,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: even the whole thing, Like if you think of like
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: how kings, you know those are used a lot, how
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: do they? How do they end up? Like all right,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I mean you could become a king, but if you
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: want to, like let's say, you know, you follow it
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: that you become king, if you want to go conquer
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: another place, what do you have to do? You have
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: to slay that motherfucker and take your shit. If you
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: want to become that, you have to kill it and
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: becoming like it's you know, kind of how I get
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: into like my whole thing with like using Michael Maris
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: as the beast, the motherfuck is slaying everything in his world,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and then you'll be coming in a sense, you'll become
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: the king he took over. You've killed everything else. So
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know, in a sense like are you
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: killing Metatron and becoming him?
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: I mean that would be a valid sort of contract
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: way to describe what happens. I wouldn't be against that
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: sort of framework.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be like, oh, I'm cutting
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: them all the fun, you know, I'm not that. It's
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: just like you're destroying the idea.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: The idea.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you know, but you know what I'm getting it?
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that. Look when we did our series,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: I said, doth is Yamataka. So the slayer of Death,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: he literally bring puts Death's head off, puts it on.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: It's a big buffalo. So he puts on this big
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: like How's face, and he takes his skin that he
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: flays off his corpse and then wears it. So it
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: is he's slaying, but he is. That's the whole thing.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: He is, the Lord of Death. I think it's killing himself.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: I think what you just described right there, And I
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: do think there is some possibility that even this skin
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: walker ID I do think goes back to the whole
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: thing of like I'm removing the flesh. I'm not part
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: of the flesh.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: I think that's what I think.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: I think after I have a magical experience, I myself
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: become a skin walker because I have now taken on
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the flesh. I've come back from the spirit and I'm
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: a fucking skinwalker with bones and you know, fucking convulsive,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: fucking nerves going throughout this world. That's all it is.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: It sounds like very black, but I do think I mean,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: you know, if you if you're if you're in it,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: if you're a spirit and you're not encapsulated anything, and
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're in a body that's surrounded
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: by skin keeping you fucking entrapped, it sounds like you're
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: a skinwalker.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, that would be the that would be the
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: buddhest idea. That would be even the idea of quarks
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: flying and all that like that I joke about sometimes.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: But but that's not as catchy. It's not really that
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: that catchy to sell on YouTube and podcasts. So I
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: guess we won't look at it's gotta be that's that
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: obviously has to be something only on Skinwalker Ranch, right,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: skin Walker's you know, but I think there's you know,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: deeper ship to that. I mean, you again, you're even
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: telling how you there's just things of where showing people
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: are moving skin I mean fucking silence of the lambs,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: the motherfuckers cutting skin off the people.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I mean that is very interesting, isn't it.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: The Texas Chainsaw massacre I think is all showing that
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: ship sweat guy.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: And uh, I also think what soldiers said was interesting,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: trampling down death by death. That's so try acknowledge hidden
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: within exoteric liturgy. That's this is like Buddhism, is what
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: he basically just said, because that's the idea is that
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: you'll be able to take normative texts like the proanapartmy
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: to Sutras, and from those you'll be able to derive
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: secret knowledge, to be able to derive death right from
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: the wisdom to us off and with that wisdom you
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: can then move forward and go up the tree into
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: understanding so Saturn. So they're not very interesting, Yeah.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I mean not to get into it too much, even
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: with the you know, it might sounded weird when I
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: said sounds of the Lambs, but I mean if you
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: think about that, it's a movie with a fucking mouth.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: So now you get the whole death and rebirth, you know,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: whole rising from the ashes, and you got this guy
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: who wants you know, slaying people and obviously needs skin
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: for when he's done. Well, when you fucking kill everybody
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: and then kill yourself, you need a body to come
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: back to.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe he was a Calvinist and maybe he just didn't
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: understand the magical experience. He took it so literally. We
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: were joking about this before recording. But someone who just jokes,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: they don't understand the magical experience. They take it so literally.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I've even wanted to circular.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, all right, So yeah we got Metatron then, uh,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: then you also have for the angelic order. I don't
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: even know, child hak Kadash or whatever, the holy living
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: creatures those are supposed to be. These are high celestial
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: beings described in biblical visions like Ezekiel's vision as This
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: is something that people might actually have heard before. I
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: think it's on Tarot cards. I think it's on Croley cards.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: These are the high celestial beings described in biblical visions
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: as the four faced creatures supporting God's throne. They're often
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: depicted as the four chrubic creatures, the Bowl, the Line,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: the Eagle, and Man. Gareth Knight explains that these four
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: form of the angelic choir of Kenther, embodying the prime
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: ordal eternal elemental powers. Sorry Funck, that'll he believes that
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: the four of those are embodying the prime primal elemental
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: powers in their archetypal form, which is kind of how
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I think Crowley had used it on his card in
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: this sense. But yeah, I mean even there, you get.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: I know, Barrios talked about it. These some of these
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: symbols have come up, you know, multiple times on this show.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: But like, yeah, these are ascribed with I guess Catherine
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: a sense with the angelic quorder.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: I agree with that. I agree that well, I agree
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: that there is sort of that expression is with the
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: four animals. That makes a lot of sense to me.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: There's iconography to sort of correlate to that. And I
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: also think that the top deck is probably the best.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I know, this is very contentious, and I'm not a
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: natural Tarot card reader in any way, nor do I
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: know Cabala through Taro, but I have used a tot
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: deck for a long time off and on, and although
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: the writer Wait Duck is really good, I have to
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: say that there's something much deeper about the top deck
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: in my opinion.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: No, I do, yeah, I do, actually, yeah, Like I
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: do need to get myself at deck of that actually bot.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: When I first got to North Carolina a few months ago,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: I checked out there's like three like three occult shops
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: within like ten minutes for me, so I was like, wow,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: that's that's pretty cool. I went to one of them
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: and they had the tarot deck that Lucks used to
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: using the Golden Dome that was like black and white
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: and that's fucking hard to find. Kind of I grabed
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: that and that one. I actually had wanted to think
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: about covering it because like the major arcanda, if you
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: were to see a things that I point out a
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: lot to have to do with eyeball symbolism. It's like, Yo,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: that ship is literally all over that deck. Like I
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: was like, Yo, this might actually be like more symbolic
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: towards eye bullshit. But the tooth deck, I do think
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: that that's it. Yeah, I am impressed with that deck.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: I'll have to say it is what it is. I mean, oh, no,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: it is very interesting. There's a lot of I honestly
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: think there's in that toot deck. I think you're seeing
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: light reflection. I think you're seeing the eyeballs, and I
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: think you're seeing the brain. That's you know, I know,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: people don't want to give that dude credit.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: But like a lot of the paintings are very like
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: through crystals, like as light with THREEC.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, even the Magician car, fucking Magician car looks like
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: he's blasted off through like flection.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean it does. The whole thing is very
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: whoever did it, whether it's Crowley or someone else, like
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: whoever arranged those cars, it's very good. Kabala, I like
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: it a lot. I think it's to pick something. I
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: think preserve something, and I think it's a you know,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: even if you're not like for me, I'm not interested
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: in Taro that much, but I think for meditation reasons,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: I think the Tomberg stuff, a lot of the you know,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: the more og guys they do the Tomberg meditations with
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: the toad deck and I think actually makes sense.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and Rebirth of the World correct when they
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: do show those, sorry, when they do show those that
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: they are the cardinal points. Yeah, you know what, I
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: had even wondered about those animals or the things that
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: they choose. This would be too much to get into
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: to try to even probably figure out right now on
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: the fly, but just going by them, I mean, uh,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have man, you have eagle, and you
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: know bird seed. Differently, they're also like higher up. I mean,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: obviously they spend time in the air in the skies,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: you know, with the bowl on the line. I'm just
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: wondering if they're like I guarantee you there's some sort
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: of like deep deep symbolism between that, like even their
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: makeup or their their place in the world, you know,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: or even like even I would say, uh, specific things
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: about the physiology. I think might actually even be reasons
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: why they're used.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think it's physiological or formations
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: of Like I tend to think of everything as like words,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: like they're trying to represent like primordial sounds or words,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: and they might do it in a specific way. Now,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Mario obviously looks at everything through astro theology. So I
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: don't think either way is wrong. I think actually maybe
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: both of them.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Both.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. So it's just like
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: depends on how you look at it, because I think
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: that there are relations for both, and I think there's
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: an argument you made for both and including the booth
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: is smarter. I agree.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: The virtue for this fear, this sphere, the attainment the
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: realization of this union and fulfillment of spiritual purpose. I think,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, I could be wrong, Jim, but
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: I think kethere maybe the only sphere with no vice,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: because you know it's supposed to be. I guess you
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: know perfect or an extent, it exists beyond duality. So
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I guess there is no really right or wrong at
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: that point. Maybe I don't know.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: That is definitely a one way to understand it. That's
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: definitely one way to even express it, is like you're
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: beyond dualities and like again, to reference the series is
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: like Chinnamasta, she stands upon herself. She's above herself, above
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: lust particularly, but it can be understood to be all
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: kinds of mind poisons, of which there are five. So
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: but she specific specifically, excuse me, stands on lust. So
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I just think or carnal desire, you could say. So,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think that there is no virtue,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: but I think or no vice.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Excuse me.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: But I also think it's like how you understand it?
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Do you take it in that way that you said,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: where you're beyond good evil? And then some people, obviously
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: modern occultists, interpret that as being like whatever all the
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: things I do after I come back down are sort
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: of like in this range of beyond good and evil
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: or do you understand that to be like non duality
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: in your consciousness? So I would say that there's a paradox,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: but I agree that there's not at there's not an advice.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, uh oh, I'm sorry. I was looking at
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: my notes that I got I lost it. Yeah, And
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: then you know what, Unfortunately for some reason I started
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: having the other colors, and I guess maybe I just
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: didn't put them all in, but I was going to
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: get into a Ibria that one is normally considered uh
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: with brilliance, pure white brilliance. And then at some point
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: there is a oh yeah, and then Asaiah that's the
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: pure light is allfo shorn with a slight differential, and
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: that is white flecked with gold like you had mentioned before.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: So even the colors changed throughout those for a world
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: uh for me, And again, like I just do want
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: to mention it. If you go look at the tree
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: of life, I mean you do basically see at the
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: top sphere it comes down into the two pillars and
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: then drops down and then if you see you know
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: this from kenther down the middle pillar. It drops all
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: the way down. So something I am just trying to
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: really I guess hammer in there is that it is
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: within every sphere as well. In my opinion. Uh, I
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: would even say sometimes like I Kether, I would uh
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: look at that as a fuck. I just lost my
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: train of thought.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Fuck that's what you mean?
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fuck, I just had something too, and I
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: was like a fuck, And it was something I've been
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: wanting to say over and over again, totally forgot, just
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: slipped out of my head like that, what the fuck.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: It happens? Yeah, it's okay. Well, I agree with you.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: I think that there's also an element of Kether that
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: is in every supper. I think that's what you were
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: also were kind of saying, like there's an element of
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: like deep, profound, almost ineffable love. And so if you've
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: had that, I think it's it almost is beyond like articulation.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: So it becomes this kind of like nebulous game like
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: what do you really experience? How do you describe what
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: you really experience? And Kether is sort of like innumerable
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: in that way. It's just like so full of something
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: so beyond what we could even use words to describe,
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: like how the light exactly what you said there is
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: like a I don't know. I think of it as
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: like an eclipse before a horizon.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, it's really and I was going
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: to use this and this is a part of where
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: I was going. I don't want to try to try
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: to lose it again, even like you said the eclipse
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: and stuff. Uh, I would even say with kether, I
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: mean that's kind of like light before there's like even
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: sound to it, because you know sound travels is slower
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: than light, or you know lights travels fasted and sound,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: I know, to break it down into that, maybe maybe
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: it doesn't sound as wild they're crazy, but I mean
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: I do think even an extent again, how I even
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: used the crystal and how it shows all these colors.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Could kether literally be just that flash of light of
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: existence or something coming into existence that can eventually, like
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: you said, at birth, you get that flash of light
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: because the fucking that sperm, that one made it into
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: the zero and now there's the flash of light and
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: something can eventually take form and then be spit out
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: into this world. Is that kind of like kether? You
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: know that light flash and then all that stuff ingests
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: for nine months and then gets ship out and tell
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Malkouth when it's done.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's definitely one way that people have thought
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: about it is that like you know, like some neo
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: gnostic definitely think.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Like, oh I don't say that, don't say that. I'm sorry,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: call on the Nazis already. Fuck.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Well, some people believe that it, you know, through that
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: expression of light and then it's like into the lower forces,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: which is sound exactly what Nick said. That makes complete sense.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: It like reverberates. People like talk about yasod being like
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: a kind of reverberating crystal, but not maybe of the
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: same clarity as Keather. That's an interesting way to think
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: about it. Uh yeah, so it reverberates at our lower frequency,
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: and yeah, I think so we then exist at a
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: lower frequency. But I try and give it like a
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: more optimistic I guess or utopian or maybe you know,
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: as the kids say keathermaxing idea that yeah, it doesn't
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: matter if we're in the lower world, we still try
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: and go up. I don't know, just say give people
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: like a little People seem to want impetus to like
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: they want to be passive agents of like astrology or magic,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, no, you should take a more act deverall,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: so regardless of how we appear in the world, we
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: should still try and climb.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: One thing I did want to mention too, you know
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: about Kether how I even like, you know, even mentioned
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: like the whole birth thing. You know, I even find
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: that interesting. Again, you know, this is only going by
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: my experience. Maybe my experience is bullshit. Maybe it was just,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: you know, something fucking happened in my brain and I
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: just lost it. But again with that whole eclipse thing,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: like I'm talking about that flesh of light, and it's like,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting how you you come into a
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: flesh of light around a circle and if that is
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: me crossing the abyss, I mean you're going out seeing
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: the same shit.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is the thing. And then maybe this
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: is a good segue into Bennah. Is that construction of
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: light you could say, around the birth canal, like when
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: you're sort of perceiving it coming outwards or when you're
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: kind of going inwards into death experience, that kind of
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: restriction of light is not it's sort of a good
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I've heard other people describe it in a similar way
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: or as a pinpoint camera. It sort of gives the
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: light contour and meaning.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: You know that that is a really good point. I
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: just want to throw this in there before I forget
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: this is even something I've even thought about with Janice,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: because I swear and I do think Janice falls on
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: chokema my experience, I am getting a white light and
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: then a black sphere and eventually they pull apart. Janice
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: has been associated with doors and hinges. Well, if you
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: have a hinge or a door or something like that,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: you're gonna swing that fucking black sphere away from that
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: fucking white one. I know this may sound crazy, I'm
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: sort of like, look at it like that if even
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: if you think about it on the picture on the
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: tree the way it's it's that could look like age
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Like that sounds nutty.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't. It really doesn't. This is a really
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: good way to express like what happens. It's like the
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: light drops down from calor as you said, it goes
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: through chokemoil. You can say this is where like the soul,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: like what people think they are, that sort of is
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: like there, but it's not in a body.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: Ye.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you come to face to face with God is
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: the expression there. So if you even think about it,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: your God thinking this is me right, and then you
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: go into form.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: You have the idea of what uity It totally makes sense.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you see yourself and then but not in
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: my opinion, you're getting into thoughts and then that's where
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: you start compiling what you think you just looked at,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: and that's what you become something there then you.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Know, no, absolutely, this makes sense even in the Sailor
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: moonclips I shows, because you'll see, like in their distinct
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: powers that they do kind of embody these suffaratic concepts
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: like that they'll have sort of like expressions like how
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: I always think of Pokemo, like yes, I agree with
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: you Janice one hundred percent. It's like a well, I
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: think it's an odin. So I've said this before, so.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I think I think perfect for that perfect to that odin.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: It's like it's not expression. It can be also smoky,
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: meaning that you can tell what's around it. It's like
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: very hard to discern. It doesn't have good understanding, but
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: it can be also be like a fool, like the
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: fool's card in Tarot is a really good way to
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: express that it's like a guy he's going to step
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: off the abyss, but he doesn't really know. He's already
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: climbing to the higher mountain. He doesn't really need to
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: drop off, right, but he's not really also paying attention.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of a fool in the most essential way.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: And I think that it confuses a lot of people
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: to think that that is like number one, but Hokemow's
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: really two. And so I do think that that is
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: a point of you know, Pathogoras preferred the two, and
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: it makes sense in Buddhism as well. We would say
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: that there's like more of a diad, but we also
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: have a flexible system, so as we say there's like
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: a pentad or eight or whoever, it doesn't matter really,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: but we're more like there's more flexibility. But if you're
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: more Pythagorean, you would prefer the two. And I do
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: understand that. And so I could see where people are
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: drawing like a face of God. So I think that
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Janus thing is perfect because it is kind of like
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: a mask of God, like a Maha Vishnu who wears
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: one thousand and eight faces.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting that you didn't mention the fool That
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: is the card that connects to Chokla.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: One of the few that I actually know because I
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: did an anime series with Monty on. The anime is
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: Forgetting Leaving Me one hundred percent. Oh a DGray Man,
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: and so he has he is a fool card like
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: it's the motif throughout the entire anime. He like owns
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: a fool card. He has like the clown sort of
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: tattooed on his eyebrow. He uses like fool card colors,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: and so it just it completely makes sense to like
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: everything you're saying. So I remembered it. So it's not
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: me being good at Taro. I'll just admit it's I
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: learned that for that episode. So it's.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: I've learned more about Taro because I've decided to cover
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: it all the show that I did Brian in some ways,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: believe it or not. So you want to play one
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: those videos so you can talk.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Let's go for it.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: This is I think this is the first one, if
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: the one that didn't work, all right, So here we go.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Let me bring up the volume a little bit.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: It's not her transformation. I just want to say that
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: that's interesting. Although there are colors that are interesting. It's
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: really her talks that are interesting that I think you'll
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: find also interesting.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I find her with the green and red is
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: the reason interesting. I mean, this is like two female
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: kind of colors in the tree.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: I agree. So we're talks called bed Scream and the
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: one of the one of the videos that it does
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: work is going to have a line from Sailor Saturn
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: and she's going, I am the time of Silence. I
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: just I should have waited until you could put it
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: up to say it, because I was like, oh, Nick
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: will love this. But it is interesting because they always
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: work together. So I like to say that Pluto is
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: at death and like those are the inter relationship. Now,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: some people don't like this, and I'm totally fine with that.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: I actually think that there could be a flexibility between
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Uranus and Pluto. Like I think you could have Pluto
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: at Heather or Pluto at death, depending on maybe the
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: aon or depending on the system you're using. I think
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: there's both ideas that are okay. So, but I like
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Pluto because as you see, she has a key that's
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: her wand and the key is talked with a heart,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: so you could say love is the cause of knowledge
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: in a very real way, and she opens the gateway
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: the threshold, which is also part of what the mythos
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: of death we can say is is the threshold to
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: the abyssle world or to the Klipa. Although you can
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: also say this about the moon about you sewed. You
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: could say there's a secret path there that goes right
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: to death. Some people have said that I agree with
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: that actually as well. And so in the anime, what
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: is really interesting is there is a little girl, a
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: princess of the klipas you could say, who sailor Pluto
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: takes as under her wing. So very interesting you sewed
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: or a moon a lunar Pluto connection, I think in
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: her kind of iconography, and that's and so I would
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: say that that's death and more of a if you're
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: just doing like a more teaching people like the general
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: ideas of the suffer. I like Pluto with death, and
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: I think that she actually correlates really well. And I
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: think that the lady who did it was really into Taro,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: and so through Taro, I think she also understands a
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: lot of kabbala as well.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Did you want me to pull up another one or
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: did you yes?
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Let's see another one. Yeah, let's if you if you're
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: cool with it.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me just Unfortunately left them playing,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: so now it's like when I originally pulled them up,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: they're not even on the same video. So I gotta
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: go and chat and pull it back up again, you know,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: like my YouTube will just start playing after another thing
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: and they yeah, yeah, it's not that not on the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: same video, and US Cellular makes it easy to switch.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: All right, here we go. I want to switch it
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: over now and then uh maybe after this we'll get
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: into choke Ma a little bit more. Yeah, we might
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: actually not be able to even get to all three spheres. Unfortunately,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Sorry I started late.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: No, it's okay, Yeah, share this dad. Next time we'll
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: hit it hard with ben Off.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean totally honest with you people, like we
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: could probably do one show per sphere, but it's just like,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: you know, who wants to do ten shows.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: I love doing long form series. I think it's great.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Oh is Christ.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: So this is Sailor Uranus, and so I like this
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: for Keather. You can see she's bringing the polarities in together,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: the fire of Gebra and the lightning of Jupiter. This
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: is Sailor Neptune. She's doing the dreamlike ocean, so that's
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: her attack is like music. It's kind of like a
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: sleeping in the superno ocean, as I've often said. So
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: I think that the both of the attacks actually makes sense.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: And it's also interesting because Sailor Uranus is a lesbian,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: so she is able to defy convention. She could say
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: that she's postconceptual. It's kind of interesting.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: I do think that is interesting.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: Someone thought about it, is what I'm saying. It was
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: a thoughtful, deliberate way to reconcile the paradox of not
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: having a male character Philip, I think, and because I
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: would assign that to be more of a masculine energy.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Now obviously I said that can be both, but I
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: do think that there is a be a more masculine energy,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: or a more unified kind of vision, not not hermaphrodite. Okay,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that. I'm just saying a more unified vision.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's Gott and his wife together, and so I
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: think that that's a more interesting way. But I think
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: this is also a valid way because they thought through
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: it and they were like, Okay, how do we reconcile
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: this kind of paradox that arives as only one character,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: So then she also is in a she's dating Sailor Neptune,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: so Choke Mom, So it would give them an inherent
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: sort of natural connection. And just like the sort of
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: supernal triad. Well, Bena's really important for everyone else, but
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: the other two are sort of ineffable in a little
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: in a way, so they're kind of in and out
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: of the show as well. So it's kind of interesting
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: in that way that they kind of like appeer and
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: not a peer. They're there and they're not there. Sometimes
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: the other girls think about them and they don't really
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: know what to make of it. Some of them are
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: partially attracted to them, some of them are kind of
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: repulsed in a way. And I think that also is
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: like a coupleistic choices, like the plus and the ultra,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Like are they magnetizing them in or magnetizing them away?
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Hm? I like that with the magnetism nice, Uh, you
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: want to go over to Choked now, I guess.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see Chokemom, since we just kind of hit
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: on it a little bit.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well, I mean even with the Supernal try
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: it it's kind of like hard to talk about one
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: with a kind of incorporating the other ones.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: That's what I think they're interesting, is that they're dating.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: So you would have Keather and Homa in like a
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: you know, perpetual sort of duality, almost right exactly, And
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: so Homah is really interesting. It's gray, it can be turquoise,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: it can be white. Is a perfectly fine way to
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: think about it. But that's at the higher levels. But
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: you could also say, I was talking about this with
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: someone today is like it can also be if you
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: look at Mother Teresa. That would be a really good
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: way to understand Hokemon because it is like a widow.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: This is a very contric kind of archetype, but it's
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: someone who's kind of outside of society, outside of convention,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: but they have a role. You could say they're sort
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: of like a vessel for greater wisdom, hopefully like transcendental wisdom.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: You could say, like Mother Teresa's whole thing was like
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: to take suffering and to sort of like make grace
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: out of it. Now, in the tontric way to understand
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: the sephra, I would say that this produces a lot
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: of confusion for people. It tends to be very outside. Oh,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: I'm outside the flesh, so I am truly the beast,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: but you're not. You're not quite outside of form. So
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: if you get stuck there, you're still getting stuck in
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: a particular kind of ego. But it is considered to
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: be the ineffable expression of wisdom. So more European systems
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: like would prefer a masculine sort of expression of that,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: so you often hear about that, but in uh Dharma
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: and Eastern wisdom systems, they prefer wisdom is always a
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: female always always. Wisdom is pretty much synonymous with like
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: a feminine element. So I would say that there's both,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: or you could say the tontric way is that they're
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: reconciled because she's a widow, so she she did have
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: a husband, but he's you know, peace out.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, I had something I was gonna add, what's
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: that one again?
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: Too?
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Just what happens when I don't get stolen? I actually
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: haven't a totally sober on the ship surprisingly right, that's
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: that's because my vapor rises a broke I have to
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: go get When after the show I realized that four
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: thirty was broke, I was like, I can't leave. I
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: was like, I can't leave, we'll be late and we
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: saw it fucking five thirty anyway, Uh that was my
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: fuff embullshit chokema. Uh oh, this is what I was
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: thinking interesting about the ego because like even in Chokema,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: I yeah, I'll read, I'll read what I have and
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: make maybe the level of uh, well, you know what,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: I probably lost what I was looking at with chokem.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: It's like almost like you kind of start to what
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: I was reading and how I looked at it too.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: You almost start to indifferent yourself from uh, from the
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: source again, Like I would even think that's maybe even
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: because white Janus is there, like whatever or the experiences
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: face to face with God is that it does say
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: in Chokema from you know, multiple people's things, like that's
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: when you start to like separate yourself from the experience,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: I guess, or separate yourself from the ol to make
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: yourself different from everything else. And that I could see
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: that being the ego. And like I've even mentioned in
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: my experience whenever I've crossed the abyss, if that's what's
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: really happening anytime I started thinking of myself, it ends
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: when I start wondering where I am or what I
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: am or where you know, what's going on. As soon
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: as I really start thinking about I guess whatever, it's over.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: And I do think that's because I'm separating myself from
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: the experience of though I'm not in it, I'm like
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: trying to look at it from outside.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with you, Nick, And I also think
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: the one thing I didn't say about color that I've
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: talked about before that other people actually message me and
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: we're like, I've never heard anyone say this before, but
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: I think I've actually heard you say it before. But
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: silver tinseling, this is something that I personally, I don't
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: know if you want to experienced or just just associate
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: maybe maybe in a deeper way with that sufferer. But
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: I always thought of it as silver tinseling. So but
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: I also agree that it can be understood and sort
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: of the like Nick was talking about the diffusive expression
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: of light through crystal, Well, if you go down to Hope, Ma,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: you're not in crystal anymore. You're in smoke or in flocks.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: So maybe you can say that you're like a humulus cloud,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: like almost pristine, pure white cloud as far as you
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: can see, and then the cloud kind of pushes over
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: the sun. It expresses outwards and there's kind of like
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: a you know when when light passes through kind of
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: the water vapor. It's not a rainbow, but it's there's
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: something multivariate about it. And I think that that's also
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: part of hope ma, and I think that's a good
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: way to understand, like is it are we separating ourselves
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: from the infinite sky? Because that's kind of the more
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: traditional Jewish kabal ideas, like are we separating ourselves from
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: God's mercy or God's love or God's wisdom in this
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: particular case, or are we like a willing recipient of it?
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Oh that's the question, man. Honestly, I think like for
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: me myself too, that is a big thing that I
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: have actually wondered about. When you're still looking at the tree,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: what is the reasoning from that separation? Is it by
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: choice or by force? That is just a very I
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: don't know. It's like I wish I could go back
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: to when this originally happened and see, like you know,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: because it's like, dude, if I was giving the choice,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: where the fuck SAYU stay where you are, it's much
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: more nice about there well, or it is like I'm
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: gonna go somewhere shitty to remember how good I got
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: it now, Like that is that what's going on? Because
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: I got the joke, I can go home now I'm good.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: I think that is an interesting way to think of
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: the tree in general. It's like, do you you don't
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: want to end up on either polarity. You don't want
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: to end up on the extremities of the tree. You
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: want to end up in synthesis and also well, I
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: would say you'd also end up in rectification both because
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: obviously Buddhism plus is a great emphasis on that, but
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: not everybody does. But you could say that, okay, Uh.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: The example I always give of Rosicrucianism, Rosicutinism and Falsism,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: like they have a very tipherretic They always focus on
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: the heart and the and the you know, the the
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: sacred heart with the crown and it's flaming and it's golden,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: and keeps pointing to it. So he's like, prepare your heart,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: like with these tipperatic qualities, to prepare consciousness to go
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: high or receive the Holy Spirit or whatever. So I
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: think it's like the there's a duality in that. I
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: think that it's like people get lost in because like
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: the experience is nothing like really how we speak about
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: it in a way. It's like we're talking about it
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: like this is one part of it, one part of it,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: one part of it. But it's for me anyway, it
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: was a lot more. I don't know. It's like not
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: so chronological. It was like the different experiences happen in
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: different places. So I just think that people get confused.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: And that's part of what Nick's talking about, is like
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: this separation from source, like looking at yourself as a
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: separate being or already embodying that high quality of source,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: but you're actually in the lower world, so you can't
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: possibly be ineffable. That's one idea.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: One idea I like to you know, and not to
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: get into the weird weird stuff here, but like even
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: with Chokma, uh yeah, I'm gonna get into the you know,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: eyeball and brain shit, the whole gray thing. I've even
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: wondered if that has anything to do with gray matter, uh,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: you know, in the brain, and like the orphanym is associated.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: This is why I was gonna get into the orphanym
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: is associated with with chokma, and I have often often
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: thought the orphanym uh might actually be your optic nerve,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: because when you cut open the optic nerve and start
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: looking at it diagonally, it does kind of like it
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: almost looks like a pizza or even like the wheel
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: of fortune and uh I you know again with the
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: wheels and just something circular. And it has to do
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: with sight. The orphanim's got eyes all over it. I
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: just have wondered about that, and it's just you know,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: at that point, is that like if you want to
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: start seeing what's going on with your brain and your eye.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I guess at that point, like electricity or you know, light,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: depending on which way you're seeing it, you know, go
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: on in your your brain if you're looking at it,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: I guess from like your brain out to your eyes
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: or from your eyes into your brain, you will see
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: I guess, like electricity or a light that then is
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: starting to be pushed into the optic nerve and actually
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: being condensed and like kind of like being separate from everything.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: That was just that's a little bit much. But I
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: have wondered, like if you want to start getting into
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: the physiology part of it, which again, I think just
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: like the trivium or you know whatever, like we were
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: saying before, how there's like so many different layers to
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: ocult symbolism. I just think this is one of the parts.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: And I do think the biology part is undeniable, undeniable
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: part of it.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: Even the whole thing with the colors, like I was
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: saying before, I even think the whole idea of light
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: reflection and frequencies and all that shit is all in
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: the tree.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: Well it's interesting you say that, Nick, because obviously a
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: lot of the medieval callist, which is some of many
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: of whom you've covered, they have like mapped the tree
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: onto the atom cadvon onto sort of the or the
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: Christ figure or whomever they you know, Nacho or the
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: Seth or the Shem or whomever they want to call it.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: They have mapped on the tree to the thing. So
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: you can look at it through a level of correspondences,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: like we have talked about doctrine or signatures related to plants.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: But that's just a very minute example, like a very
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: minute way to discuss the same things like the same
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: there's planetary implications, planetary relationships with the organs. Then we
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: can say they're okay, they are a suffaratic also implications
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: or relationships. So I think it's all like exactly what
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: you're saying. I think that the biology layer is a
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: really interesting layer because I I when you were saying
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: that the sort of electricity or the lightning around the
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: gray matter, there's something there, I think for me, yeah, because.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Like you're getting to your pineal gland and like the
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: electricity going up and out of your eyes and over
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: there like you I don't know if you want to
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: stell looking at things and like what's actually going on?
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, you can see it in extent.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: Well described as smoky and gray in tontra. So what
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: produces smoke flux like has to be burning, but it's
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: not burning as in like it's not actively inflamed, but
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: it's some kind of electrical process, right yeah.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: And then like so and then if you want to
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: get into like you know, a getting the gray mat
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: or whatever janis goes with that symbol of if you
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: this is another reason why I look at it that way.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: At what point a brain is actually female and then
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: the mail is interdicted into it and you will even
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: see that I think you know, with the genus and genus.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's not always a male and male and male,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: it's a male and female. And I do think that
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: could even be showing you the whole brain and everything
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: be informed.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think it's a dualistic. It's
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: not the most dualistic suffer in the terms of like
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: what is presented, like the klipa is like the sort
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: of misunderstandings that the magician or the meditator or whomever
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: it is, they're passing through the densities and then you'll
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: get these different kinds of perceptions, feelings, understandings, but there's
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: also misunderstandings that can happen, and so I think that
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: this is one of those things. It's like a dualism,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: and so everything in that sufferer reinforces this idea of dualities,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: and it's it's hard maybe sufferer to reconcile as well.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: And I've heard other people talk about this, and maybe
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: this is why it's such a fascination for like contemporary
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: especially like left hand path ocultists, because it's they find
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: it so impenetrable. But I think it's just you just
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: have to say, this is just the subconscious layer and
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: it's expressing itself in the fucked up ways that I
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: think of the world, not necessarily how they are. And
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: once you kind of can say that, you can kind
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: of be like, Okay, it's not and not everything is
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: how I imagine it to be.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not what I thought it was. You know what.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, Uh, we're not gonna wrap it up yet.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: I don't say we'll go like another ten minutes. If
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: you don't mind, if we have to talk about Chalkbow more,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: we can next episode. But I was thinking, and this
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: is because we totally honest with you, I'm coming on
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: in a minute. When I first started getting into the Kabbala, Doth,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: from my opinion or from what I learned, was never
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: really originally on the tree. So for me, I was
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: just like, I'm just gonna stick with the ten. I
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: have looked into it and obviously it's in books, but
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: I've never paid it as much mine. I'm thinking, well, again,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: I haven't paid it as much attention as every other
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: sphere put it that way, I'm thinking maybe, even though
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: it's kind of out of the supernal tryad, maybe next
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: episode we will actually cover Banah and Doth even though
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, to make up for two
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: spheres in that episode instead of one, So maybe we
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: could do that in the next show we'll cover Actually
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: I agree, because really, if you want to think of it,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: like Bena draws sort of death into activity.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: You could say, well, again, like even Mike, the way
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: I say, I think death is kind of understanding what
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: the fuck just happened when you crossed over. It's all
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: connected in a sense.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: It's the way to make it's the way to understand
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: what happens when you cross to me, to relate to
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: it right, to give context and contour definition. But you
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: don't want to be at the whole like definition where
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: you don't know the thing. Yeah, you don't fundamentally know
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: what happened. You just started describing it like randomly with
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: words that you may or may not fully understand. But
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: then once you're doing the bana sort of delineation of events,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: you're kind of putting it into a grammatical structure and order,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: and you're being intentional in your will. So that's very
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: also magical. So that's why, like I know, Nick likes
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: the sehra, I like the sephra. Bana is really so important,
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: but it also has a relationship with Doth. So I
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: agree with you, Nick, but I agree it doesn't You're fine.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: People are fine with the ten. You're interested in Kenneth
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: Grant and like, you know, playing around with Doth. Doth
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: is all that I was there. So you're it's not
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: going anywhere, is what I'm saying. So if you don't
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: particularly focus on it, it's fine. You're gonna eventually come
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: to that place hopefully.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was more interested actually in Doth again after
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: I had my experience, because like I because I knew
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: that I was associated with Knowing, and I was like, well,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like this thing is I know now? And
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh wait, So like it was something
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: that spurred my you know, my attention more after the fact, unfortunately,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I figured maybe we could do that in
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: the next episode of dub Nah and Doth, so you know,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: just keep it going. Another thing I wanted to say,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: not to get off of this, to get back a
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: little bit, back to Chokmah again, like even when I
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: brought up the Wheel of Fortune, there's no planet associated
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: with Chokema, but the zodiac is. Again, it's just another
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: whale with lines through it. Again, I was saying, if
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: you if you cut the optic nerve down, like you know,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: like your slicing like a that's a salami stick. You
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: gotta tell that way. It does look like it even
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: has like the thick layer around. It's like, yo, that's
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: the crust of a pizza like or like those flowers.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: It's a lot on that Golden Dorn deck. My opinion,
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: there is tons and tons of optic nerve symbolism on there.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: It's like these circular things that almost kind of look
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: like flowers, and they have this thick outer edge. I've
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: shown it plenty of times on like an architecture like freemasonry,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: especially Catholic churches have that shit all over the place.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: I do think it might actually be the you know,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: the optic nerve. So again I'm just saying, you know,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: relating the whole zodiac. I wonder again with like wheale
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: of fortune type symbolism, and I know wheal fortune would
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: probably go around Chess said, but I mean, you know
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: that's right above that it's chokemo you already.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: Well you can say that the hogman is the highest expression, right,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: So like there's obviously an innate relationship between Hasad and
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: Hakmar right there. So maybe you say that all the
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: things like a more Jewish way to understand it would
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: be like you're bringing all those things that you've learned
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: that are expressed in the world. So Jupiter is and
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: has said, is there a lot of people not everybody,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: but a lot of people have this preference for that
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: suffra because it's infinite in its expanse. Kind of you
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: can double the four every time. That's kind of the idea.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: And so but once you get into Hokmah, you kind
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: of are more. You're more centered, you're more you've lived
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: your life. You've been like a master baster or a
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: student or whatever for many decades, and so you've kind
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: of come into this wi you're a wisened elder. So
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: that's also like a good archetype sort of to understand
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: it as well, and it gives you kind of I've
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: always likened it to the Desert Fathers, so nix't talking
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: about Catholicism, So like I think of that Hokmah is
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: very like the Desert Fathers. It's like the guys in
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: hemp Linen robes often gray, right, they're out in the
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: desert and they're kind of meditating and having these sufferotic
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: experiences and trying to make sense of it. And they're
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: also they're not eating very much. It's like honey and
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: locusts and like, you know whatever. And so it is
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: like the ultimate asceticism in a way. And it's kind
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: of like the ultimate You're you're seeking for duality, you're
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: seeking for unity, but you're doing it in the most
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: dualistic sort of separating yourself from your physical body. You're
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: trying to like annihilate the self almost.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: You know what's really interesting. If we want to go
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: back into this whole thing, I'm sorry to bring it
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: back to the eyeballs again. No, that's okay. I like
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: this when I think about CHOKMOI. You have one optic
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: nerves but two eyes. I mean, you know what I'm saying,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: Like there's only one optic nerve in each eye, but
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: you are kind of getting one but duality. You're one
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: eye optic nerve is it's only one of them, but
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: yet it's being done in two eyes. You know what
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: I'm saying? That sound like weird're even it's if you
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: look at what an optic nerve looks like it looks
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: like a flascid hanging dick. I'm not trying to make
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: up for perverted shit, but in my opinion, that is
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: actually phallic symbolism. Is because actually I do think is
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: possibly showing the optic nerve, and or it even looks
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: like a light switch just hanging down. Now you want
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: to flip that shit on, you know, tickle that skull
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: at Hoyz fancy she's turned out all the time. You'll
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: get what the fuck you want.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: That's right. So what you said is so interesting, Nick,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: because there is even a con trick like icon where Shiva,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: well it's not really Shiva, but it's by Rava and
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: he has the he's nude like that, and he's it's
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: not it's a fa like meaning it's not erect, and
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: so it is just like the shape you described, and
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: he's non generative, and that is also the equivalent of
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: the form that you could map into Hookema. So I
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: think it's really interesting that you say that it's kind
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: of the non generative father.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even uh yo, Minerval, this does sound crazy, Minerval,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: I actually think when you're going through that initiation, you
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: are actually kind of. I think it's showing you shit
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: from the eyeball. That's just my opinion. And they even
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: the god name is even on. I mean it sounds cheesy,
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: but like I was saying before, you just got to
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: flip that switch on. I mean, that's the god name.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: And I do think they're actually they're telling you that
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: after they pump your thumb fucking twelve times and there's
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: twelve cranial nerves and one of them's the optic nerve
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: in front of a fucking tent that looks just like it.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: So it's just like, you know, I do think there's
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: something to that. Yeah, And the whole thing I mean,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: taking it if you want to, yeah, if you want
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: to look at the Gnostic mass and it can be taken,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: is that the priest is just trying to turn on
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: or get the priestess off, but he's not using his dick.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: You know. You just thought to wonder, like, is there
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: actually symbolism behind some of this sexual stuff, because if,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, one of the best ways to hide
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: shit is make it sexual and make it look satanic.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: Well that's the preferred every every magician in there, like
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: the last sixty seventy maybe eighty years has preferred this.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: Sometimes not everybody, but a lot of people have preferred
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: this tactic. It's to hide like real knowledge under the
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: like the superficial density of maybe you can say perversion,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: inversion or whatever you want to call it, like a
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: true kleep up, like a true misunderstanding of what the
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: actual knowledge is. It's a way to hide it and
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: obscure it. Which is interesting because that is also the
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: kleepa of Saturn. People love that, like the you know
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: Saturn moon matrix, like the oh the you know, black
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: Cubas Saturn stuff. Well, but interestingly, to occult something is
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: the kleepup of Saturn. Actually, Saturn is to come into
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: understanding or been a is the proper way is to
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: come into understanding rather than things before people. However, that
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you get to reveal all secrets, of course,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: but I think that's about what Hokma is. It's a
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: little trickstere like. That's how they would kind of look
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: at it. In contra is the or even in the
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: normy kind of Hinduism, they would say it's like the
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: sleeping God, the supernal God. He exists on the world ocean.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: He's dreaming of his life in the real world. But
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: he's not really God God, He's he's dreaming. So his
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: sort of soul, if you want to call it, that
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: takes birth into the world of form, and so he
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: doesn't want that to end. He loves the dream, he
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: loves the leela, and so he hates nothing else. He
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: hates nothing else than to be sort of either you
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: could say killed quote unquote or sort of awakened.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: Oh and real quick, because I didn't want to forget
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: this and I was paying attention to what you're saying.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: I just want to throw this in because I was
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: thinking about it and I was like, I forgot to
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: say this prior. Ganus is associated with pillars correctly. Correctly,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think you've heard that yourself through with
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: the two pillars of the things that have designed.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: That is what that is what other researchers have asserted.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: So I have to say that as far as I
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: know that is true.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Again, if I'm going on about these optic nerves,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: I mean it's again, it's you know, to fucking it
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: looks like it looks like a one hanging in a
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: zero in your ryeball you got two of them, you
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: get it looks like pillars to me too. If you
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: want to looking at it like that, I mean, maybe
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: I'll maybe grabbing for shit here.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: But you know, I don't think you are at all.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: I think it makes complete sense. I mean, even the
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: odin Mythos, it's like he's missing an eye, you know.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: And he's associated with fucking lightning, Isn't he Isn't he
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: associated with light sometimes?
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: Sometimes so some people say that he is, and some
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: people say he isn't. Obviously I am this isn't well
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: beyond my area of expertise. But certainly there is an
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: association of him with this. Obviously we said this of
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: the Sepher. But then also he does correlate in a
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: lot of ways, like he wears a gray robe. He
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: you know, he's an ascetic like a desert father almost
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: except maybe like the Hyperborean Northern version of a desert father.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: And he's non generative, so you know, it fits a
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: lot of these sort of just archetypically, like what Nick
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: was saying before, like magic is really about archetypes. It's
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: not about people get lost on like the god names
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, I must do this alter to
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: this goetic or this deity or this thing. But really
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: those are just archetypal sort of layers or vessels that
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: contain deeper ideas, just like the sex stuff and so
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: or the satanic stuff like that's also like a perfectly
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: synonymous way, like sexual and satanic. Like ye, it's like
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: a perfect way to say it. Yeah, people do dumb
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: shit because they they want to trip up other people.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: That's a real thing, and then also they want to
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: sort of guard it against people actually accessing what is
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: deeper knowledge. So dumb people would see the sort of
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: external presentation and be like, this is what I have
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: to do. And I agree that sometimes the magical or
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: sepharodic experiences can be very confusing, not necessarily confusing in
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: like a dark way or a bad way, but sometimes
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: we don't know is like fully understand the things that
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: we see. And so I understand why people start to
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: obsess about like clipolithic things or darkness or the carnal
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: ground or the as we did nick the series with
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: the ICP guys. Yea, you know they have the dark
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: Carnival and it's like all the it's a bit it's
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: like hyper focused on the dumisms denizens excuse me of
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: the carnoground. There's no kind of luminosity at the end,
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: and so sometimes people get stuck in that kind of
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: like you could say, like the actual density, like the
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: actual like I feel like this is what something is
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: instead of being you don't have to be a hermeticist.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: But it's a maybe an interesting way to think of
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: it as like you want to travel like the word
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: rather than stay.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: Fixed and one idea. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: but uh, and you know, you know, it's fun. I
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: don't even know how to say this. There's plenty of
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: people that if it wasn't for this misunderstanding, they wouldn't
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: have a podcast just to keep it totally real.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why I brought it up, Nick, because it's
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: something you and I have discussed. It's like not a
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: secret that there are people that would rather obscure use
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: the klipa of Benna and probably knowingly, to be honest
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: with you, I think, at least I think so it.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: Was a nobody will of this, and I'm sure that
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: the ten people that sort probably have no idea what
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: the fuck I'm talking about because it's so old. But
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: there was like a time I'm not gonna mention names
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: where somebody was getting harassed by not harassed, but they
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: were culled this we're kind of like shit talken somebody
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: that I know in the community, and one of them
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: had like literally said to him like, if it wasn't
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: for like horrible, fucked up shit, you would have nothing
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: to pedal your listeners, Like you actually pimp like horrible
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: shit that you sell to your listeners. And I didn't
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: really I really didn't get it then because I was
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: just like, oh, fuck that guy, because I really don't
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: like him because I think he pushes like fake UFO
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: alien shit. But like I said, like I guess from
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: going through my own growing pains and wanting to change,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: we wanted to put the show or just in a
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: MORETZ direction set direction. I started realizing, like not so
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: much myself, but other people. I was like, you know,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: it was like the total misunderstanding of a lot of
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: this shit is the only thing you have to offer,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: and all you're doing is like selling hate, fear and
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: putting sick images into people's minds.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: So there's something really sicko about what you're saying. Actually
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: is like if people pedal to sell like they're actually
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: commodifying the sick images and then they're associating it with
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: Magic's really about as you know, Nick, I'm not saying
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: anything to you. It's really for the episode. It's it's
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: about liberating your consciousness, is the best way I can
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: describe its. People who try and limit you and like
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: you're a deeper understanding, so your deeper inquiry into wisdom science,
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: Like wisdom science exists, so we can reference it and
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: so we can utilize it if we, you know, if
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: we make that decision for ourselves. It's not someone shouldn't
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: color your opinion of it just because there have been
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: sick people. There are sick people that do do lots
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: of things and lots of different, varied sort of ideologies.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, magic is in itself is there's
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: nothing wrong with it. And so people who depends on
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: how it's used, you know, trade in that it's it's
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: unfortunate and they're doing a metaphis class. I think the
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: negative one.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think people realize how Yeah, I don't want
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: to get into it too much, but my honest opinion,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: people who stay stuck on that stuff, they're just black
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: magicians gonna keep it real, but it is what it is.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I would consider myself want to
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: as long as I'm talking and trying to make people
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: believe something. I mean, I would say that's kind of
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: black magic in a sense. But when you're pumping people
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: with fear and hate, like yo, I hate to say it,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: like you're basically just fucking you listen to Satan, person's
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: making you hate shit and fear shit. What the fucked man?
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: Just weird.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: It's weird, you know, and everybody's fucked up. I don't
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: I don't get that whole thing. It's like, Yo, if
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: you got a shit on a motherfucker and make yourself
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: look good, you ain't jack shit yourself. You ain't got
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: no game. If you got to call everybody else's cia
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: operative and a piece of shit so people will listen
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: to you, you ain't got jack shit. You ain't got
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: no game, motherfucker. That's just my opinion. It's like a
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: dude who's got to talk shit about some of the
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: chicks man to try to get down in pants. She
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: fucking wants you. She'll come to you if you gotta
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: talk shit about that. Motherfucker and try to persuade her
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: you were a fucking piece of shit, jack shit, you
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: ain't got nothing. And there's a lot of people that
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: are doing that recently, and it's just it's getting silly.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: It's getting extremely fucking ignorant and silly. That's just my sorry.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: I I had a little rantic because it's just like
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: a lot I see a lot of it recently, and
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: it's just fucking disgusting at this point.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just funny because I think a lot
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: of the people that pull that narrative. I think some
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: of them have obvious, like called aesthetic at least trappings,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: and I actually think they know a lot more than
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: they you.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: Know, it's interesting. A lot of these people that spit
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: this shit don't tell you you what the fuck they
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: believe in? Do they? They pointed everybody else saying bad, bad, bad,
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: But what the fuck are your believes my man? Nobody knows.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But yet everybody else is a Satanist
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: and fucking this and that, But what the fuck are you?
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of weird shit going on out there recently,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: all right, that's facts at least is funny, uh, All right,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: facts again, preach all right, I have enough of that,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: but uh uh chin, I feel like there's probably still
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: more we could talk about. But chokemar. I don't know
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: if you maybe, well I don't because I don't want
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: to cram another five minutes or three minutes in. Uh
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: maybe we could continue a little bit more on CHOKEM
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: and hopefully get behind Yeah again, like I was saying, one,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: I started late. Yeah, unfortunately. I mean we were met
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: on time. It's just that we we caught up and
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: bullshited for about a half hour and you know whatever.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I kind of realized. I was like, shit,
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: we're kind of cutting it clothes for like three spheres
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: because in my opinion, I mean they are not that
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: all of them aren't worth talking about a lot, but
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: I just feel like the pernal try it is like
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: a little bit more to get into. So yeah, So
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: unfortunately we will continue choke Ma and then Bean and
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: hopefully doth in the next one. Everybody, but uh jin,
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: thank you very much. I had a had a bank.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: I'm be totally honest with you. I was nervous about
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: doing it because it was just me and you. I've
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: been so accustomed to like five people on the screen,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: and I was like, what am I gonna do when
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: I have to take a piss or have the air
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: condition it gets too cold, you know, gold So yeah,
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting here dying to take a piss. Just let
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: everybody know. Uh yo, this really turned out great, and
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: I'm very in some ways, I'm happy we didn't get
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: too far because I actually would like to continue. So yeah. Yeah,
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: and the listeners, the people who caught it, I mean,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: they were loving it, so you know, the least, and
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: a bunch of other people, even saying Vanessa, a couple
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: of the people that love the conversation. So uh yeah,
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on, and I really really enjoyed
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: the chat. And not to knock all the people on
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: the show, but when it comes to cabalistic stuff, you're
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: really one of the only few people I can rock with,
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: So not knocking other people, it's just I think all
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: the people on the show would even say that me
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: and you were into the cabal away more than them.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: So I appreciate being able to have this conversation with
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: you because I could talk Abala for fucking days and
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: days and days.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: Man, it's a beautiful and amazing thing. Yeah yeah, thank
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: you so much. I appreciate it.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, man, hell ya, and thank everybody for joining
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: as well. And Jin please let everybody know what your
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: deal is and where they can find all your amazing work.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: Sure, I'll keep you super short. Threshold Saints, Spotify, Apple,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: everywhere you get your podcasts Gray Lodge. There's a YouTube
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: channel live on x every Friday evening. Check us out.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: All my co hosts Solar, Matt, Joshua, the Branch and
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: Monte Carlo. And we're doing speculative archaeologies this week so
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: everybody can contribute. Thank you so much, Nick and Lisa
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: and everybody from the chat. Amazing small for a million years.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: H yeah. So everybody should study Kuala, I think yes.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know. And again this is something I
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: want to explain and something that I don't think people understand.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: If you were to go get a book on Kabbala,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: I don't think there'll be one fucking ritual in it.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: It is all about how we came into existence and
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: how the fuck you get out of it. There's nothing
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: towing you to go fucking kill a chicken, rape a kid,
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: or to draw a circle. None of that shit's in there.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: So I highly suggest if you want to get into
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: some deep thinking and ponder about how the fuck did
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: I come into the flesh and how do I have
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: an experience with God? Maybe looking into the kabbala might
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: be something you look into. Again. Thank you Jim again
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: talking about the kabala I love it and always loved
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: chopping it up with you. Yeah, so I think if
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: we stick to it August eighth, because we picked the
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: seventeenth for today, I mean, let's just be real, it's,
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: you know, a cult number, so we're like, fucky, let's go,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: let's do it on seven seventeen. I think we might
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: go for August eighth for the next one, so stay
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: tuned on eight eight, might come back and continue more
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: kabbala Um and then until the next one. Oh real quick,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: just to plug it and then pie in about fifteen
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: twenty minutes, which is another reason why I'm cutting it short.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: We'll be going live on hell Lissa's channel. Check that out.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: We'll be going live soon. If you happen to have
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: any emails you think you can type up real quick
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: and send them out, send them over. We'll read them.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, check that out. And again, everybody, thank you
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: for jumping in. Really great feedback. I really loved it,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: and even Leaves of Grass was nice today. Sometimes I've
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: noticed her kind of talk shit. She was actually enjoying it,
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: so I appreciate your nice comments. This time leaves the grass.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: Uh So that's till the next one. Everybody, be well.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 4: Later, close your eyes, look into the darkness, find the
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 4: blazing star.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 3: Focus on it and it become the eclipse. Don't fear
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 3: that the show will be done and death.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: You the shoes