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Selects: What Makes Lead So Poisonous? · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, friends, it's Joshuam For this week's SYSK Selects. I've
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: chosen what makes Lead So Poisonous for twenty sixteen episode
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: that was recorded around the time of the Flint Water crisis,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: which apparently is still going on. Sadly, this episode is
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: one of those ones that's filled with science culture, history,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. So I hope you really like it.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: It's a good one.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Charles W Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's to my right. So
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: this is the stuff you should know.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: It's right recording in a new pop up restaurant called
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Jerry's Burrito Check.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Jerry's eating a burrito right now, A frozen one.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I guess right. You didn't make that from scratch fresh
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Jerry frozen burrito's fine with me, though, Yeah, some of them.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Nothing wrong with any frozen burrito ever created.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's this. They're very specific, you know.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like a fresh burrito, but it's
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: its own thing that's still good.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Right, this should call it like a retete or something
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: weird like that something that differentiate it. You know, I
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: agree with you, man.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but man, sometimes when that reefred bean pops out
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: and burns your mouth, yeah, that's just the best.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: You have a hole in your in your on your
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: gums for a couple of days. Yeah.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I'll throw a little cheese on top too, to cool
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: it in the oven. No, to melt on top.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Oh that's an enchilada then, Oh.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Not really.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I think the enchilada makes the it's the sauce, right, Yeah, okay, that's.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: What I'll say, swimming in sauce.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: All right, enchilada sauce.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: This may be your best intro yet Oa Chuck.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: We're talking about lead today, that's right. Do you know
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: much about the Flint, Michigan lead poisoning scandal that happened
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I should say blemish.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I posted about it on our Facebook call a
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: couple of months ago and sort of was a part
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: of a lively discussion there. But only from that and
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: then this research.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, same here. I mean I was aware of it,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: kind of, I didn't understand the details.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But for those of.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: You who don't who don't know about the Flint, Michigan
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: water poisoning, but Flint Michigan has faced a lot of
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: problems since the auto industry went away, but one of
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: them wasn't poor water quality. They actually, the people of
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Flint actually paid i think the highest rate or among
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: the highest rates in the country to get their water.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Their water was pumped from Lake hereon through Detroit, and
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Flint bought their water from Detroit.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, get that good, clean Detroit water.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Right, You know you're in a pickle when you're buying
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: water from Detroit and that's the healthy water.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: So they're building a new pipeline from Lake Huron that
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: goes around Detroit, and Flint said we're going to get
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: in on that action. And Detroit said, oh yeah, well
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: we're can't linger contract. Rather than pay for a short
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: term contract with Detroit, the emergency manager, the basically the
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: emergency mayor appointed by the governor himself, said we're just
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: going to tap into the Flint River.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Not a good idea, as it turned out.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: No, it's not because in Flint, Michigan, they were, among
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: other places, something called Buick City. Buick City was a
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: four hundred plus acre car manufacturing plant that made buicks,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: and it really heavily polluted the river. So much so
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: that people in Flint, after just a few months of
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: drinking this water from the tap, started losing their hair.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Well right away. They said, this looks and taste awful.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Right, It's tastes of chlorine. And the reason it tasted
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of chlorin is because there were e Coli break outbreaks
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: that they had to like treat the water with chlorine.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: And then it also to some people it smelled like
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: sulfury as well. It looked, but people started losing hair,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: started getting rashes. There there was one kid who had
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: an autoimmune disease already. He just stopped growing, and it
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: was it was bad news. But the people of Flint,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the Flint government, and the Michigan Environmental Protection Division basically
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: said no, we're following all the laws. Everything's fine with
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: the water. Just go back to sleep. Flint and Flint
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: did something different. A bunch of them taught themselves the
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: science of like water and sanitation and the drinking water laws.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: They became basically citizen scientists, and they took it back
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: to the Flint government and the state government and said,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: you guys are wrong. This is toxic water and we're
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: being poisoned, and you have to do something about it,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: and they finally did well.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: And I think the issue was don't play dumb. We know,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: you know, like why are you making us tell you exactly?
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: And they kept that. Apparently the company line was no
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: that here's the science here, here the results of the tests.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: But the tests were terrible. And if you want to
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: know all about it, there's a really really great article
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: on five point thirty eight dot com called what went
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Wrong in Flint, and it just really chronicles everything very well.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: But the big problem with Flint isn't that there was
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: chlorine in the water. It was that there was a
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: bunch of lead in the water.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: And the reason why there's a bunch of lead in
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: the water is because there's lead pipes going to a
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: lot of houses in Flint, and the water that was
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: being pumped through those pipes was so corrosive that it
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: was bringing a bunch of lead with it and poisoning
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the city of Flint for months.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And the reason people use lead in pipes is
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: because it's not corrosive. Corrosive, that's how coros the water was. Yeah, exactly.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: That really says something, it really does, And I guess
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: we'll loop back later and talk about the lawsuits and
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. Sure that sound good.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a great idea, kind of bookend it.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: But let's talk about lead itself, like, what's the problem
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: with lead? Where did it come from? And that whole
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: idea of using lead pipes is nothing new either, It's
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: actually pretty old, to tell you the truth.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, lad Well, the Romans, of course, were the
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: first to do almost everything, either Asians or Romans.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Sure, well, I don't know Africa, that's true. Yeah, so
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: basically everybody except except Europe as the migration expanded exactly,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: And don't forget all the innovations going on in meso
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: America as well.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Shout out to anyone who came before us. But it's
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: been going on since ancient times. Romans using lead as
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: lead piping for sewage draining and carrying water, even stored
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: water and containers lined with lead. And in fact, this
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: is pretty interesting. I think the English word for plumbing
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: and the chemical symbol pb that is led, comes from
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: the Latin word plumb bumb. Now plumb bumb is is
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: that plumber's crack?
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Oh nice? If it wasn't it is officially now.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: You know, my friend Eddie. His young daughter asked him
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: what plumbers crack? What was the other day and he said,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I said, what did you tell her? And he said, well,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: you know told her what it was. He said, sometimes
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: plumbers they bend over a lot because pipes are below you,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: and sometimes their pants sag a little. Then you see
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: their butt crack. Yeah, and she went, oh, okay.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: The only thing I take issue with is the use
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: of the words.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Sometimes yeah, right all the times.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Other than that is a great explanation.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: So the Latin plumb bomb, which means lead.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which that has been mysterious to me for many decades.
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  Speaker 1: PEB doesn't make any sense, Like why would they call
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: it PB?
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's peani.
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  Speaker 1: Lead right, and PB is you'll find it on the
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: periodic table. And the reason you'll find it on the
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: periodic table is because lead is an element, a heavy metal,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: and it has all sorts of properties that make it
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: very desirable.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, really unique too, although.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Super super toxic as well.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Find Yeah, it's not often you can find something that
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: is super malleable and soft but also strong and dense.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Exactly, which makes lead perfect for water pipes. Yeah, because
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: it's also it also resists corrosion, Like you said, so
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  Speaker 1: you can run water through it, and as long as
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the water is not super bad, the the lead won't rust.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: It will leach lead into the water, but it still
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: won't rust, right, right. So it's also not very good
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: at conducting electricity, which makes lead very useful for other
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: things like soldering electrical connections. The electrical connection will remain
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the thing that transmits the current, the lead won't. It's
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: pretty awesome.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, did you say soldier solder? Solder? Yeah, never heard
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: it pronounce that way.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: How do you say it, solder solder? You gotta say
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: that l.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I think the el silent unless it's regional.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Maybe regional regional to my brain, I think solder.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: You said that because you're from Toedo.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Right. So the use of the use of leg goes
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: back even before the Romans. Actually, but it first appeared
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: mostly in art like lead paint.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't like it They described in the articles
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: a novelty, and it was apparently it makes colors more
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: vibrant and it's less corrosive, which is why you still,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: even in the United States, see lead paint on street
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: signs because it's less corrosive. Oh really, Yeah, that's what
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: they say. It's still used on signs.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Supposedly up until as recently as the nineties, and it
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: may still be going on depending on the country that
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: it's produced.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: In.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: The ink on the outside of a plastic bread bag
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: frequently has lead in it, or it used to, really,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and it wasn't a problem unless the somebody kept the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: bread bag and turned it inside out to store food in.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Then that food leached the lead out of the ink.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, it was actually like a big problem for
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: a while.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm not sure that it is anymore. I couldn't
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: find anything recent. The most recent thing I saw was
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one saying that, yeah, it still happens, right.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Well, it's less expensive as a paint, which is another reason,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: and the colors are more vivid apparently. But this hasn't
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: been a problem in the US for a while. But
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: in China they still use a lot of lead in paint,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: and in two thousand and seven there were massive recalls
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: for everything from Dora the Explorer toys to Sesame Street
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: toys due to the fact that they had lead paint
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: on them and little kids put everything in their mouths,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: including their toys because they're big dummies and they end
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: up eating lead, which is a big problem. So there
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: was a massive recall of Chinese products in nineteen ninety
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: seven because of this.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: No, it was two thousand and seven.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: What I say, ninety seven?
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're hearkening back even further to the Urban Dance
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Squad days.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, did you look them up?
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: No?
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, man, you're missing out.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's true.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, why just because I like them now?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I remember them vaguely. Oh yeah, it wasn't like i'd
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: never heard of the Urban Dance Squad. No, you have
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: good taste of music.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Mental flows for the globe. Great, like a legitimately great album.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Of all right, I'll look it up. I'll look it up.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: It's just weird that you say. You think you're not
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: missing out?
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: No, No, because I mean again, I remember Urban Dance
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Squad for some reason. I put them in line with
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: like Spin Doctors in three eleven.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: No, No, well, you know what I mean. Three eleven
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: could be slightly compared because they were kind of a
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: rock rap group, but they were Dutch. Urban Dance Squad
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: was yeah, oh okay, so that makes them cool in here.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Right, automatically. Yeah, somebody who just picked this up is like,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: what are they talking about?
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: I know Enchilada's Urban Dance Squad. So lead paint in
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: the United States is well, it's still an issue in
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: some ways because older houses still have it. But yeah,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: as of nineteen seventy eight, they said no more, get
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: the light out. That's right, and they define it as
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: any paint or surface coating that contains lead equal or
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: exceeding one milligram per square centimeter.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically in nineteen seventy eight, it said, if
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: you're going to manufacture something for somebody's home that people
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: are generally going to come in contact with, most people
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: don't come in contact with street signs.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the deal, right.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Then you can't have lead in it. But again, any
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: house built pre nineteen seventy eight, and there's plenty of
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: them out there, very likely has lead paint in it.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: It also probably has lead pipes. Yeah, and there's a
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: lot of lead around us all over the place in
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: places you wouldn't even think, like there's lead and leaded
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: glass like a glass, no, really like a glass you
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: like you might be using, you conceivably could be drinking
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: lead out of it.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, but you don't drink out of leaded glass.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. They use it to make regular plain old
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: dumb glass in a more like crystal. It gives it
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: like a ping when when you tap it. It makes
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: it the reflection a lot sharper. It also lowers the
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: melting point, so you know, if you put it in the oven,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: it doesn't like right, but it's conceivably bad for you.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: You know, who was on it long before the United
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: States government. Federal government was the city of Baltimore. In
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty one, they banned lead pigment for interior paint,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: very smart for their housing. And since the fifties it
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: had kind of been phased out in different parts of
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: the country. And then in nineteen seventy one we finally
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: got the Federal Lead Poisoning Prevention Act, and then it
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: took seven years after that to fully ban the paint
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: the paint lead paint.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Right. There's another big source of lead that was all
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: over the place in the twentieth century, and that was
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: in gasoline in cars. There was an additive in gasoline
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: that was added to gasoline called tetra ethyl lead, right.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you remember that, like you know, up with unleaded
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: or fully leaded right.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: And the reason that they added lead to gas was
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: because there was a problem called knocking right where in
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: a high performance engine, when the gas entered the ignition chamber,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the combustion chamber, it may just get so amped up
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: that it would combust, it would ignite before it was
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: supposed to, and this would basically disrupt the movement of
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: the pistons. Right when they did that, they knocked, they pinged,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: it did all sorts of bad stuff. The lead kept
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the gas from combusting or igniting before it was meant to,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: so it was a pretty great additive. The thing is,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: we already knew that lead was not good for you
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: at the time, but we added it to gas anyway.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: And then it was finally phased out in the seventies.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Starting in the seventies, i should say, because we started
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: adding catalytic converters to our cars.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that helped that, and just our the process of
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: the chemical process of refining petroleum just advanced, so we
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: no longer needed it.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Right, So it wasn't just crummy gas. It was pretty
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: good gas. It didn't need lead. Yeah, if you run
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: leaded gas through a catalytic converter. It totally messes it up.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And the catalytic converters there to prevent emission, so you
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: take lead out of gas. The problem we found is
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: that during these few decades from like the twenties till
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: actually nineteen ninety six was the last year you could
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: have lead in your gas in the United States. Yeah,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. During this period, basically all the cars
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: on the road were spewing lead lead vapors into the
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: atmosphere that would just go into the air and then
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: come back into the ground and settle in the soil
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: and water and your face.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had. I used leaded gas in my I
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: had to put it in my early VW Beetles that
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I drove.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I had a couple of.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Old you know, vintage, well vintage. They bought them new.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. My mom she bought a sixty eight
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: beetle brand new. Wow. That's when I drove when I
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: turned sixteen.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Wow, I think it was still around huh yeah, yeah. Nice.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: You know, those things they never die if you take
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: care of them.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Did you like ever use duct tape or anything like
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: that on it?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: No, but I did. Funny, you mentioned I had a
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: whole sizable hole in the rear floorboard. Yeah. That My
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: friends call it the Flintstones car because you could, like
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: you put your feet down and run.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: So I did have a board, a running board, No,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: just a board over the hole, but I mean you
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: could remove the board and run, Yeah, while you were
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: sitting in the back seat.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: That's right, great car.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Lead has been added to cosmetics over the years, jewelry, pottery,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: and then today because everyone knows let is so such
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: a jerk. One of the only places you're going to
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: find it in the US at least is in your
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: car battery.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Your car, yeah, your car battery, or your laptop.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, which is why it's really important to recycle
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: that car battery, don't or that laptop. Don't throw it
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: in the woods. Yeah, responsibly recycle your electronics and batteries.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If there's one thing that we've learned since the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: twentieth century is that lead has some serious staying power,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: and it has a very pesky tendency to get out
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: of wherever we put it, right. Yeah, and yeah, if
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: you put it in just a regular landfill that's not
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: designed to accept things like lead, it'll just leach into
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the ground water, and same thing with your e waste
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: your laptops, And the reason that they're used in laptops
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: is because the lead actually protects you from the radiation
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that would shoot out of your laptop screen into your face. Yeah,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: if it weren't for the toxic lead in there.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: That's right, glass cathode ray tubes like you find in
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: your computer laptop screen.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about your laptop or your computer.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your monitor, Yeah, I'll bet there's but you should
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: lead in there.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: You should responsibly recycle your laptop too, for sure reasons.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you did a.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: What was it called electronics recycling?
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah? What was it? Like? Just a thought or I
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: have no idea what you're talking about. You did a
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: video series where you like, now sure deep thoughts.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: No, I can't even remember I created the series.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you did one on e recycling.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but nobody cared or watch.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So the world was not saved.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Everyone said, Chuck quit doing it all right, Well, let's
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: take a break. I'm gonna go cry a teer for
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: a man. What was the name of that series?
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll go get forties and pour them
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: out on the Curb Forum.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: All right, we'll be back in a second. All right, Josh,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: we've talked a lot about lead so far and Enchiladas
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: rock bands. Yeah, lead comes from the earth, though, let's
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: let's take it underground.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not actually, I mean, it is naturally occurring,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't naturally occur in its pure form.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't just like dig down and you're like, hey,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: there's a big hunk of lead, right, let me pull
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: it out.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Instead, lead atoms have I think four unpaired electrons maybe
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: in its outer shell. So it likes to form connections
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: with other things. So when you find lead in the earth,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: you're gonna find it in the form of an oxide
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: or a sulfide or something like that. Frequently it's combined
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: with silver, and so that means it has to be separated.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: And even the Romans back in the day, which by
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: the way, these Roman lead pipes that they used for
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: baths and for sanitation and stuff still intact today.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: You can still dig those up and beat people with them.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: You could, they're so strong. That's the other place you'll
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: find a lead pipe is in the hand of some
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: dude coming at you.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Yea or a game of clue.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's right. It was bent. Even the guy
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: was hit so hard with it. Yeah, kernel mustard. He
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: was not to be trusted.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: He was not. But yes, the Romans they had a
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: pretty ingenus man, they were so smart. They had a
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: pretty ingenious process called coupilation. The extent of that is
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: basically the idea is that some precious metals, I'm sorry,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: precious metals, All precious metals won't oxidize, but dumb metals will.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: So if you heat that junk up, it's going to separate.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Right, And they used it mostly to separate from silver.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: But these days we get most of our lead from
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: something called galena, where a lead sulfide is found, right.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and our process is sort of similar. It is
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: very like using heat to separate things.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: And this actually very much resembles Do you remember our
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: waste gasification episode?
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could remember which one this evoked.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was that one, because the process is very similar.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: So you take some lead sulfide and you heat it
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: up in the air, so there's the presence of oxygen
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and it converts into lead oxide and sulfur dioxide, right,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: So you separate them out a little bit. Then you
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: take that lead oxide and you add carbon coke and
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: you again mix it with some air and as that happens,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the air combines with the oxide into car. No, the
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: carbon combines with the air and becomes carbon dioxide takes
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: all of the oxygen molecules from the lead atoms. So
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the lead, basically what amounts of pure lead, becomes molten
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and goes down to the bottom of the furnace and
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: carbon dioxide goes out into the atmosphere. It sounds like
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: a very safe process basically creating molten lead and carbon dioxide.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's called roasting and smelting. And once that lead
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: sinks cools down, it's gonna it's called a pig. It's
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: just a big mesa lead basically.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like pig iron.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's delicious. And then you have slag, which
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: is the non metallic byproduct of the smelting process. Yeah,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: and you siphon and cool that down and it's waste product.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: And like I said, recycling your car battery is important
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: because there's also a process called secondary extraction where they
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: get that lead out of your battery. You can keep
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: using it exactly.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: That's the other good thing about lead It is extremely
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: reusable because again, it has a lot of staying power.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: So you're not going to use lead up right, you know,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: which means you want to reuse it. Yes, we should
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: get to the point where we don't need to mine
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: any more lead or process any more lead. Just reuse
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: the lead we've got, yeah, or maybe find some great
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: substitute that isn't so toxic.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: You know, you melt down those tiny Civil war figurines.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, those guys?
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Are those lead?
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Sure?
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Okay I thought they were. Yeah, So handling and painting
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: those with lead paint it's dangerous.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Right, yes, yes, yes it is.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Is that why we're losing so many war figurine buffs?
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I think so at an alarming rate.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: That's why they all have like spittle and drool around
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: the corners of their mouths and like zone out while
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: they're painting.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Well, there's other reasons for that, but sure it contributes.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: So okay, Chuck, you mentioned or we mentioned lead refining
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: and processing, smelting, roasting, that kind of stuff, right, that
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: does create emissions of not just carbon dioxide but also
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: lead vapor, which is not good stuff, and you want
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: to control that kind of stuff, but it is emitted,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and it used to be. Well, these days, lead emissions
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: from refining and processing are actually the number one source
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: of lead vapor emissions in the environment. Right but forty yeah,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: about forty years ago, forty five years ago, that was
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: not the case. The case was all those cars driving
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: around on the streets emitting lead vapor.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you used to account for about seventy eight percent
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: if it came from your automobile, and since the phasing
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: out and reversal, we know have fifty two percent coming
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: from the processing. And what is it down to road sources?
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: It's thirteen thirteen percent fuel combustion.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not bad, No, not bad. Still again, you basically
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: wanted it like zero. As we're finding, like the as
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: we'll see that that lead exposure in any amount is
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: not good and it gets it goes from not good
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: to really bad very quickly. Apparently.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, let us know good. We mentioned
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: kids chewing on something with lead pain is not good.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: If you're redoing your house and it's pre nineteen seventy eight,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: you want to get a piece tested. You can't just
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: be like let me sand off, No, the paint on
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: this molding.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: No, because again, even if you think you've cleaned it up,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: there's still in there's lead right there, buddy. Yeah, that
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get rid of it. Apparently, Also,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: open and closing your windows in a pre nineteen seventy
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: eight house can create lead dust.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're lucky enough to be able to open
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: your windows. Sure that's a point minor sealed shut.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or a nail chot or what have you.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just from years of painting basically with probably.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Lead paint guaranteed.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: No, it's not. Actually we had it tested, Oh did you? Yeah?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I mean it wasn't one hundred percent lead paint, but.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: You had to test it like all the way through, like.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, But what I'm saying is pre nineteen
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: seventy eight, it's not like the only paint that was used.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I know you're saying that's why you get it tested, right,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: But did.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: You get like all the layers underneath tested well for
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: any Yeah? Okay, that was my all the layers sound effect.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Like we hired a lead person.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I gotcha. Good good good. That makes me feel better. Yeah.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: And if you want to if there is lead and
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: you want to get the lead out. You're going to
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: have to hire someone that knows what they're doing, and
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, they'll come in with their hazmat suits on
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: to do so.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Right. So you can also get it from plumbing, although
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: apparently with lead plumbing it's not quite as much of
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: a thread as you would think. You know, doesn't that
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: make you just want to like never drink water again?
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Knowing that you have lead pipes in your house. You
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: shouldn't necessarily be worried because over the years, water sanitation
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: experts have figured out that if you have good water
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: that's non corrosive, it actually is not only non corrosive,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: the water will leave behind a protective coating that coats
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the inside of the pipes that it runs through. Over
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: the lead, Yes, nice, over whatever it is, but yeah,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: it's going to leave a protective coat of other substances
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that aren't toxic. It's going to form a barrier for
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: later water and the pipes. Right, And so you shouldn't
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: necessarily be freaked out if you have lead pipes coming
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: to your house, although I mean, you got the money,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: there's definitely worse things you could spend your money on
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: than replacing those pipes.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know move to what copper PBC.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Well, copper can be a problem as well. There's actually
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: a copper lead rule that dictates how non corrosive city's
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: water has to be right to follow this rule, and
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: it's protecting not just against lead but copper. You don't
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: really want copper either, although it's not nearly as bad
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: for you as lead.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Interesting, So, if you have lead in your system, I mean,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: it goes, it goes into your blood stream, doesn't matter
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: how it gets in there. If you inhale it, it'll
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: be absorbed through the capillaries and the lungs into the blood.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Or if you if you lick it, touch it, if
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: you lick it, yeah, it's gonna find its way into
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: your blood and you can. I mean it's really easy
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: to find out if you have lead in your blood.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: You just get a blood test. I don't know why
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: they would do this other test. I don't either, And
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: not just a blood test unless it's like prohibitively expensive
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: So yeah, the other test is called the zinc protoporphyn test,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and that's a byprop of red blood cells as they
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: break down in the presence of lead. So rather than
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: directly testing and it's not finding lead either. You're like
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: going around to see excuse me, lead, I want to
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: see if your shadowy is detectable.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: And don't get it.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: It makes zero sense because you.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Got to take your blood for that too. Write sure,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: and it's not as accurate.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. But the lead blood
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: test is so easy that companies like three AM and
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: plenty of others sell home lead blood tests.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Oh that's nice.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is nice unless you're the parent who is
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: freaked out giving one to your kid.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Well, that's true. You know, anything over equal to or
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: greater than five micrograms per desolet is bad if you're
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: a kid. If you're an adult, you can tolerate a
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: little bit more, but it's still distressing.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Right, And that's how it's expressed. So a microgram to
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: a desolader, which is what a tenth of a leader, right,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: and so five is not good. Ten programs in a
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: destin leader is where demonstrable like behavioral and cognitive problems
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: start to develop.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's serious trouble.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: But the EPA has said that there's quote no demonstrated
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: safe concentration of lead and blood, like you shouldn't have
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: any in it. Right.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: The problem is it's nothing but toxic to humans. There
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: is no benefit.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk about it in just a second.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: But the problem with lead is that we're figuring out
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: that we shouldn't be exposed to it at all, while
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: we're also simultaneously figuring out that we have washed our
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: planet in it. Yeah, from the last like couple hundred years.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, you want to take a break, Yeah, all right,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: we'll come back and we'll talk about all kinds of
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: fun stuff. All right, So before I left it, Tea
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: is that there is no function for lead in the body.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: It is nothing but toxic, and it the way it
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: behaves in your body in a negative way is really
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: interesting your body. And this happens a lot if youel
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: like we covered the body mistaking something for something else
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: quite a bit. Yeah, there should be a word for.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: That case of mistaken identity.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: I guess that's it. But the body treats lead like calcium,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: So it's going to go where calcium goes in the body,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: including your bones, which is super scary.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, lead settles in very comfortably into calcium receptors and
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: it's not just bones, like that's what I always think
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: of when I think of calcium, like, well, you need
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: calcium because your bones will break, or you get rickets
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: if you don't have it or whatever. But calcium comes
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: in handy throughout your whole body. And one of the
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: big places that shows up is in calcium ions in
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: your neuronal activity. Right, Yeah, So when your neurons fire,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: one of the ways that they fire is because the
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: neurons or the calcium ions get them all excited and
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: then boom, your neurons is fired. If lead is in
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: that calcium ion channel instead of calcium, that boo doesn't happen,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, your neurons aren't firing as
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: much as they would if the lead wasn't present. And
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: now we have a big problem here.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's especially big problem with children because children's
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: little brains are you know, we talked about plasticity before.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: They're constantly forming these new neural connections, and any kind
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: of lead and the mistaken for calcium is going to
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: disrupt those connections. And so your child is literally their
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: brain isn't going to advance like it should.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. Intellectually, the apparently emotional centers like the amygdala
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: can suffer. Yeah, it's been found to produce hyperactivity, antisocial behavior,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: attention deficit disorder, all sorts of problems from the presence
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: of lead, right, And like you said, it's worse for
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: kids because their brains are still developing and forming. It's
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: bad for anybody, but it's definitely worse for kids. And
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: the other way that it affects kids is that so
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: the regions of their brains aren't developing correctly. But then simultaneously,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: calcium is also important in the formation of myelin, which
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: is that protective sheath around the synapses between neurons. So
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: that's kind of like flimsy, which means that the neurons
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: aren't firing efficiently. So not only do you have brain
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: regions affected, but the communication between brain regions are affected
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: too in little kids. And the upshot is is that
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: it promotes all sorts of problems with cognitive and emotional
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: and behavioral development in children.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like literally lower IQ scores.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: And we should say that's just like the most prominent,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: horrifying effective lead. There's a whole laundry list of other
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: things that can happen to you, like kidney failure, pain
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: in your bones and joints from all that lead settling
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: into where the calcium is supposed to go.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how about a decreased sex drive and sterility and
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: infertility for both men and women? What else? Diarrhea, lack
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: of appetite, constipation.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I think diarrhea is the least of your worries. If
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: you have a life blood.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: High blood pressure, enlarged heart. It affects virtually every system
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: in your body basically.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: And the reason why again is because it mimics or
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: it takes the place of calcium. And calcium is incredibly vital.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: It's an extremely important mineral that you need found throughout
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: your body. And if a leg goes in is like ooh,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: I'm here instead. Yeah, it's not going to do the
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: stuff that the calcium is supposed to do, leading to
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: all this cascade of horrific problems.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the other scary things is that
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: they unless you have acute lead poisoning, you may not know,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: In fact, you probably won't know, yeah, that you're being
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: slowly poisoned, and you might just think, oh, I have
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: diarrhea and I don't feel like having sex much anymore, right,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: And you might be slowly getting lead poisoning.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you you just blame that on too many
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: buffalo wings. But boom, it's lead poison.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Take scare of both. Sure you remember being a kid
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: and like lead pencils, Like it was a big scare,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Like you know you got lead poisoning if you got
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: poked with a pencil.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that, But then I also remember learning
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: that it's actually graphite used in pencils.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we should have by our age, you should have
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: David Reese on Oh yeah, how to sharpen a pencil? Man,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: he can school you on some pencils.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: He wrote a whole book on it, literally wrote the
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: book on pencil sharpening.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I still have let or I guess, graphite somewhere
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: in my hand from when I was jabbed very deep
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: with a pencil that broke off. Wow, and it never
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: left and there's still just looks like a little black freckle.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: It's like you're in prison and got shanked.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I know, I can't find where it is shived.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I see it's right there.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: No, this is scratch good. Try.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: So we've talked about all the cognitive problems that can
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: come about in behavioral and emotional This orders that can
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: develop from lead. And this is like study after study
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: after study has found this. It's one of the big
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: reasons why there have been so many restrictions placed on
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: lead exposure. And recently some people have some researchers, including
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: a couple well, an economist I believe, and an epidemiologist
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: have kind of taken that idea that lead can create
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: all of these behavioral problems and any social behavioral problems
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: and extrapolated to this idea that there is a big
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: rise in the crime rate in the United States and
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: actually around the world that followed about twenty years the
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: same trajectory of the use of lead and gasoline.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was super interesting article, very controversial, like when
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: it came well it still is, sure, but yeah, it's
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: very interesting.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's called lead America's Real Criminal Element. It was
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: in Mother Jones. It was written by Kevin Drum. He's
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: one of the all time greats working today. And I
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: think I've mentioned it before, but I strongly encourage anybody
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: it doesn't even matter if lead's the most boring thing
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: in the world to you go read this article. You
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: will just be riveted by it. And Kevin Drum does
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of he does a very good job of
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: keeping his extrapolations down as low as possible, although anybody
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: can see by the evidence that he lays out that
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: this is it's pretty clear that lead is some sort
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: of culprit in this, and it's been shot down in
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: that there's this idea that the science isn't settled. I
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: suspect that it's the same mechanisms that force with climate denial, Like, oh,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: unsettled science doesn't prove anything. If you look at all
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: the studies associated with this, the correlation between lead use
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and gasoline and therefore led emissions in cars and criminal
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: activity and its decline again, it just follows it like
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: twenty years after. And the whole idea is that when
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: we started emitting led into the atmosphere, kids started suffering
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: these cognitive and antisocial behaviors. And then about twenty years
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: after these kids were born, they started actually carrying out
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: criminal activity, and we saw a tremendous rise and everything
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: from like murder to rape, to muggings to everything. And
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: the article is too long to really go into detail. Again,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: just i'd strongly urge anybody to go read it.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the the backlash that I've seen on the article
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: wasn't to me like it was all from scientists mainly. Yeah,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I read a few of them. They weren't poopooing the notion.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: They said, what this means is it bears a lot
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: more investigation, but as much as you want. If you
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: can't replicate it, it's still possible confirmation bias or just
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: sure correlation and not causation, could be a host of
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: other issues into that.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: It could be. And Kevin Jrum makes the same point.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: He's like, there's also a rise in the use of
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: vinyl albums that followed roughly the same trajectory as well.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, of course it needs more study
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Well this is this one scientist said, what you really
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: need to do is follow what he calls a cohort study,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: when you actually follow individuals right along a long timeline. Yeah,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: it's just a tough study. It's it bears a lot
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: of to prove something like this just takes a lot
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: more data than they have.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Right, And I think the guy you're referencing is Scott Firestone, who.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Is Yeah, that was a good artist who.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Wrote on the Discover magazine blog and you know he
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: gives kudos to Drum, who definitely deserves it for basically
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: saying every time he says, you know it's it's it's
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: so obvious, you'd have to be just you know, have
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: your head in the sand to deny this. He does
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: say that yes, speaking scientifically, it does require more study.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Super interesting though, because the crime and Drum followed it
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: all over the world. He didn't just go to the
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: United States, and he saw the same thing in Canada
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: and Australia and Great Britain. And the good news is
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: if that is the case, then we should see crime dropping.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Well we have forever. Yeah, But the problem is is
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: that it also should get us to basically mitigate the
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: lead that is around, like in the soil and in
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: the water and everywhere in people's houses. And the dollar
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: amounts that he estimates it would cost are pretty prohibitive
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: at least as far as like the public will goes
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: from right now. But who knows. I mean, if enough
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: science is done on it, and you get the scientific
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: community vocally speaking about this, then maybe the public will
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: will change.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If you do have lead poisoning, you can get
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: on meds. There's a prescription called Susimer s U C
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: C I M E R.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: That was beautiful.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's that or Suckerer. I like how you said
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: they can reduce blood lead. There of course always side
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: effects with every medication. And if you work, if you've
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: like if there's been a disaster and you get toxic
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: lead in your body very quickly, right, they can use
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: something called uh Kelson collation collation therapy. Uh. And that's
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: when they use a collating agent. I'm not even going
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: to try. That's called E T A.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try it. Okay, ethyl lenidiamina tetricetic acid.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Hey, not bad if you like super quick.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I missed the last A. That's just a few letters
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: off from super califragilistic XP.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: It looks like the alphabet when it's on paper. But uh,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: we'll call it E D T A. And that's when
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: it's infused into the bloodstream and actually binds basically says
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: lead you're coming with me through the kidney out of
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: your body.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Right. But they use that when it's just an acute
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: toxic dose that that a person's been exposed to, if
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: a kid's been found to be poisoned with lead. Actually,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: from what I read, one of the best treatments that
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: they'll carry out there. There'll be other stuff too, depending
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: on how bad it is, but a really good nutritious diet,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: getting the kid foods that are high in things like
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: calcium and high in things like vitamin C that help
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: the body absorb calcium so that they can go displace
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: lead in the body. Because if you got lead and
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: you got calcium fighting for the for the same place,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: if you can get the calcium in there, it's going
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: to displace the lead and then hopefully leave the body
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: like I'm going home.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: That's gotta be hard on the kidney.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, you, Yeah, I think if you
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: have an acute lead poisoning or a serious lead poisoning,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: it's it's not good. But yeah, of course it'd be
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: hard on the kidneys because one of the things is
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: kidney fit.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and anemia exactly. If lead is Lead is definitely
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: invariably in the ground and the groundwater and in the
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: soil around us. And that's a problem because it sort
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: of works this way up the food chain in a
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: weird way because what you have are these tiny organisms
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: it gets in their body, like plankton and microscopic plants
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: and they die, and then other things eat that their waste, right,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: and then it just sort of like bigger animals come
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: along and keep eating these things.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just humans that suffer from lead toxicity,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: other animals too, even the small ones.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: So should we talk about these Flint lawsuits a little? Yeah,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: and then enchilattis and that will fully yep, well non toxicatus.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I guess it depends on who manufactured it.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: So I did some reading on the lawsuits. Right now,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: there's more than a dozen and probably growing. I'm sure
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: a few of them are class action suits on behalf
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: of tens of thousands of Flint residents. And you know,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: attorneys always look their chops when they hear stuff like this.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: But there's some concerns. One is that the state of
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Michigan is, like the city is broke, so don't even bother.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: The state of Michigan may be an route to go
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: if you want to get a lot of money, but
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: then they say that'll just get pack passed along to
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: the taxpayer. And a lot of experts in the legal
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: world say that compensation is unlikely to begin with as
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: far as money goes, because of something couple of things.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: One thing called sovereign immunity, which basically means the government
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: can say, you know, giving water to the citizens is
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: a core government function, so we're shielded legally from liability
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: for doing that improperly, so like you can't sue us,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: we're trying to give you water. And the other thing
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: is specific causation has to be proved. So not only
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: do you have to prove that the lead came from
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: that water and not like the lead pipes in your
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: house or other like the lead paint in your wall,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: maybe it has to come specifically from that Flint River water.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: And you also have to prove that that directly led
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: to the problem that your kid is having, and not
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: you know, other things.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Well, one of the things I read was that it's
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: very possible that the lead came from the pipes in
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: those people's houses, but that it's still on the provider
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: of the water. Because they were supposed to be following
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: corrosion protection techniques that they lied about following, they weren't
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: following them, so it got rid of that protective coating
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: that had been on the lead pipes before and was
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: bringing all that lead into people's homes directly. So it
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: may have been led from the people's homes, but it
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: was the corrosive nature of the terrible drinking water that
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: was being pumped through those that caused that lead to
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: be brought into the people's homes. And then again, on
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: top of it, the government was lying about using the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: techniques that they were supposed to be using to prevent
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: that from happening. So now that they've switched back over
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: to Detroit water, it's going to take a while for
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: that protective film to develop on the pipes again. Right, So,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: even now that the different water is coming through, it's
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: still lousy with lead. And the sad thing is that
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: some people in Flint are too poor to do anything
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: about it. They still need water, so they're still drinking
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: leaded water even though they know that it's going to
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: hurt them down the line.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's sad that it sounds like getting real
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: compensation is maybe unlikely.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because a lot of these people who have kids,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: like if their kids suffer severe cognitive development problems, they're
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: gonna need help like the rest of their lives.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. This one guy, he's a law professor specializing an
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: environmental law named Noah Hall. He says what the probably
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: the smart thing to do, if you really want to
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: help these people is set up do what they did
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: with the Deep Water Horizon spill and set up a
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: victim's compensation fund instead of doing it via lawsuit like legislature.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Maybe that would help.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I don't know.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: He basically said what the state shouldn't do is fight this.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: He's like, that would be big trouble. He said they
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: should set up some sort of fund so then they
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: look like the good guy still. But then I think
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: you don't get all the dirty details dragged out in
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: public like you would with a lass.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Well, apparently they're already coming out anyway, like troves of
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: emails have been released. The governor set up a task
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: force to find out who is to blame, and they
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: turned around and they were like you, and.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: He said, fire the task for right.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Exactly, You're all fired. Yeah. I don't know what's gonna happen,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: but it's very scary public health scare.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Flint, I know, talk about a city that's been roughed
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: up over the years.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: I know. Well, we're there with you, Flint, hanging there.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about lead or Flint
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: or criminal activity. You can check out all these different
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: articles on the Internet and you can type lead into
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: the search bar House of Works dot com. I'll bring
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: up a pretty great article. Since I said pretty great article,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: it's time for a listener. Man.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going to call this Finland Rules. Remember we did
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: the Dark Money podcast and I was like, what's a
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: good place that's not corrupt? I remember we heard from
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of people in Scandinavia. Hi, I'm an American
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: living in Helsinki for the last few years with my
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Finnish husband. Chuck, you were right on the money when
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: you said there's very little political corruption here. Of course
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: there are some, because there are humans, after all, but
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: the level compared to the States is laughable. When I
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: asked my husband about it, he thought for a second.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Asked about corruption scandals, he said, a few years back,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: there was something about a prime minister who accepted lumber
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: from a company to build his house. Huh, that was it.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: It seems comical to me considering the States in an
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: election year. Also, the campaign season is a much shorter year,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: and it's done a little different. A party runs there
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: at least five major parties. That's crazy in and of
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: itself sure like crazy good Yeah. Party runs in whichever
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: gets a majority, elects from its ranks the prime minister
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: and makes a cabinet out of a coalition of the
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: other parties which receive high numbers of votes. How about that,
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Like you came in second.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: You're on board too, I mean, come on, and here's
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: your participant.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Ribbon campaigns are paid for by disclosed donations and public funds.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: He also made a comment about the high taxes here.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Many people, usually Americans, say that with distaste that the
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: taxes are so high here. But I've come to think
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: very highly of it. I've discovered that I don't really
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: need another pair of jeans or a new jacket. What
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: I need is an educated society around me, and access
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: to quality healthcare and a truly equal society where everyone
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: is safe and has her basic needs met. That is
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: from Gabrielle. Wow, a lot of people hate your guts
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: for saying that, Gabrielle.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: That is so brave of you. Thanks Gabrielle for writing in.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know how they say audios in Finland.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: No, she's American.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Well, goodbye. Thank you for writing in. If you want
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: to get in touch with us, You can tweak to
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: us at s ysk podcast. You can join us on
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know if you
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: can send us an email to Stuff podcast at HowStuffWorks
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: dot com and has always joined us on the web
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: at stuff youshould Know dot com.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: You Know.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
• 49:22
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• 49:25
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