Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / New bombshells in search for Stacy Peterson & Penn State frat hazing

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New bombshells in search for Stacy Peterson & Penn State frat hazing · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious Exim Triumph Channel
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Speaker 1: one two. One wife dead, one wife missing, two other
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Speaker 1: wives afraid to speak. I'm talking about the here and
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Speaker 1: the now, not some ancient story with multiple wives. I'm
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Speaker 1: talking about a police officer, a police officer that married
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Speaker 1: and divorced three times, his fourth wife now missing, seemingly
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Speaker 1: leaving behind her home and her children without a trace.
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Speaker 1: That's odd, isn't it? Still no resolution? And the missing
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Speaker 1: person report of Stacy Peterson Tonight answers on A and
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Speaker 1: E at eleven o'clock where Dan Abrams and I du
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Speaker 1: get out over Drew Peterson. I, Nancy Grace, this is
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Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, with me
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Speaker 1: right now. Drew Peterson's defense lawyer Joel Brodsky, Cold Case
1:18
Speaker 1: Research Institute director Cheryl McCollum, New York psychologist Dr Chloe Carmichael,
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Speaker 1: and WSB reporter Robin well Lynskey. Let's just kick it
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Speaker 1: off with Drew Peterson in his own words. Now, Stacy
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Speaker 1: Peterson goes missing. According to those close to her, she
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Speaker 1: desperately wanted a divorce and at the time she knew
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Speaker 1: his third wife, Kathleen Savio, was murdered by Drew Peterson.
1:51
Speaker 1: Nobody else knew that. Listen to what Drew Peterson tells
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Speaker 1: Dr Phil Well. There have been many allegations that have
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Speaker 1: been made against Drew regarding Stacy, and allegation, accusation, whatever
2:06
Speaker 1: you want to call it. Um. Now, you know, we
2:11
Speaker 1: don't know if Stacy made these claims, but I have
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Speaker 1: a graphic here with some of them. Uh. First, Stacy's
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Speaker 1: family says Stacey told Drew she wanted a divorce shortly
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Speaker 1: before she disappeared. Is that true? No, she told me
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Speaker 1: she wanted a divorce. And I hate saying this, but uh,
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Speaker 1: the reality of it. She told me she wanted a
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Speaker 1: divorce once a month, So you're saying it it varied
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Speaker 1: with her minstrual cycle very much so. And I'm not
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Speaker 1: trying to be disrespectful a vance saying that if that
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Speaker 1: was a reality. There is an allegation or an accusation
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Speaker 1: that Stacy told a neighbor if anything happened to her
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Speaker 1: it was not an accident, that Drew had killed her.
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Speaker 1: Do you think that she actually said that to a neighbor.
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Speaker 1: I really have to question the credibility of the neighbor
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Speaker 1: because Stacey and I still even with her cultees, we
3:00
Speaker 1: still had a very romantic relationship. If we still were
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Speaker 1: to gather a lot, we still spend time cuddling, that
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Speaker 1: type of things. So, Drew, if you had a romantic relationship,
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Speaker 1: if you were still intimate and affectionate and together with
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Speaker 1: one one another, how could she disappear and you not
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Speaker 1: dismantle the world looking for her. I don't know. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I've done all that I
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Speaker 1: can do and all I have the resources available to do.
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Speaker 1: But that defies common sense. I mean, if if if
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Speaker 1: you were in love with this woman, were you in
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Speaker 1: love with her when she disappeared, Yes, very much. So
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Speaker 1: are you in love with her today? I try to be,
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Speaker 1: but it's I'm having I have a lot of anger
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Speaker 1: issues about it now that she took off like she did.
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Speaker 1: She also said that, and I believe it's the same neighbor.
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Speaker 1: You probably no better than I, that you always called
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Speaker 1: and checked on Stacy, that you were very attentive and
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Speaker 1: in fact it got to the point of being controlling,
4:02
Speaker 1: but that you were always calling to check up on her.
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Speaker 1: We were called calling each other. Yeah, So I don't
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Speaker 1: think it was a one way thing, and I was trying.
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Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to be controlling when you have a
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Speaker 1: real romantic relationship with somebody calling them all the time.
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Speaker 1: So it's also been alleged that Stacy told her sister
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Speaker 1: that she feared for her life. Do you believe she
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Speaker 1: said that to her sister? Again, I don't know. And
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Speaker 1: if she was trying to set me up for some
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Speaker 1: sort of divorce or anything, that might have been a
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Speaker 1: way to do it. In that you did have a
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Speaker 1: pattern of calling each other all the time. Why did
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Speaker 1: you not call her the day she disappeared? I didn't,
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Speaker 1: but she there was She wanted her space. She wanted
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Speaker 1: her space, So that day I gave her her space.
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Speaker 1: Because there are those obviously say you called her because
4:49
Speaker 1: you didn't call her because you knew she couldn't answer.
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Speaker 1: But you're saying you didn't call her because you were
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Speaker 1: given her space. Correct. Did you ever get physical with her?
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Speaker 1: Did you ever attack her? Did you ever have a
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Speaker 1: physical fight. There was a physical confrontation where I cornered
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Speaker 1: her in the kitchen one time and she hit me
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Speaker 1: in the head with a frozen steak. But I didn't
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Speaker 1: retaliate or anything. Because her step sister says that you
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Speaker 1: threw Stacy down the stairs, knocked her into the TV,
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Speaker 1: and threw across the room. That never happened, should never happened. Never.
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Speaker 1: Why why are these people saying these things? I don't
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Speaker 1: know unless they're trying to add some sort of fuel
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Speaker 1: to the fire. You know what your step brother has
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Speaker 1: said that he says that he helped you move a
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Speaker 1: blue barrel that was warm to the touch. He told
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Speaker 1: friends that he thought after the fact that he actually
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Speaker 1: helped you move her body. That didn't happen. Was there
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Speaker 1: a blue barrel? No? Did he come over and help
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Speaker 1: you do anything? Move anything, do anything? Never that day.
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Speaker 1: I was with him the day before and I was
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Speaker 1: attempting to get him a job at a grocery store.
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Speaker 1: He just lost his job, and he was so intact
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Speaker 1: a cater or high on something that I had to
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Speaker 1: cancel the interview and we couldn't file through with it.
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Speaker 1: So he's not a reliable guy. I would say, no, Well,
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Speaker 1: the phone records show that you were near the Chicago
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Speaker 1: UH Sanitary and Ship Channel the day she went missing.
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Speaker 1: Were you there? Yes, I was driving through that area.
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Speaker 1: What were you doing there? I was looking for in
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Speaker 1: a couple of spots they thought that she might be,
6:26
Speaker 1: and I was looking for my car that she was driving.
6:30
Speaker 1: You just heard Drew Peterson talking to Dr Phil our
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Speaker 1: friend regarding a lot of points that are not lost
6:38
Speaker 1: on prosecutors. My first point would be Sheryl McCollum, director
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Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute. Every time I would
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Speaker 1: try somebody for murderer, for anything for that matter, the
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Speaker 1: defense attorneys would say, she's just me because she's on
6:50
Speaker 1: a period. I mean, you know, it doesn't matter what
6:53
Speaker 1: you're doing, it's because you're on your period. But that
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Speaker 1: that's always what men claimed. Why is that? Here's what
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Speaker 1: interesting to me though, every time she's on her period,
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Speaker 1: all she asked for is the divorce. She's not crying.
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Speaker 1: She does want to get the hell away from you.
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Speaker 1: So back to me with the a pattern that he
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Speaker 1: would need to look at that it's not because of
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Speaker 1: her periods she wants away from you, you know. Uh.
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Speaker 1: To Robin Willinski joining me, ws BE investigative reporter Robin Willinski,
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Speaker 1: the claims that she wanted a divorce are overwhelming. But
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Speaker 1: we also know that at the time she goes missing,
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Speaker 1: she had been boxing up Drew Peterson's possessions to kick
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Speaker 1: him out and stacking them up in the garage. Robin. Yeah, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: she totally wanted out of this marriage. He's got a
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Speaker 1: very very long history of four wives, all who had
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Speaker 1: their period, all who really wanted away from him. His
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Speaker 1: first wife, Carold, was married six years. She claimed he
7:58
Speaker 1: was a cheater. They got divorced. There was Vicky, who
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Speaker 1: said that he was abusing her and threatening her allegations
8:05
Speaker 1: of course, and she told police, you know, after Stacy disappeared,
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Speaker 1: that Peterson threatened to kill her and make it look
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Speaker 1: like an accident. And oh, then there was Kathleen, who
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Speaker 1: he was married to for eleven years, who mysteriously dies
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Speaker 1: in a dry bathtub. I was there, by the way,
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Speaker 1: the day they dug her up at the cemetery. And
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Speaker 1: then of course there's Stacy, who was only nineteen and
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Speaker 1: Drew was what nine, and she wanted far away from him,
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Speaker 1: period or not. You know. Tonight on Grace Versus Abrams,
8:36
Speaker 1: on A and E, we actually speak uh to his wife, Vicky.
8:42
Speaker 1: She speaks out for the first time publicly, and it
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Speaker 1: is just it broke my heart speaking to her and
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Speaker 1: her daughter learning about life with Drew Peterson. But that's
8:55
Speaker 1: a whole another can of worms. Dr Chloe Carmichael, new
8:58
Speaker 1: York psychologist, joining me found of Anxiety tools dot com.
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Speaker 1: Dr Chloe. Isn't it true statistically, when women that have
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Speaker 1: been abused try to leave the relationship or get pregnant,
9:13
Speaker 1: that's the highest incidence of their murders. Yes, Nancy, of
9:18
Speaker 1: course that's absolutely true, because what that does is it
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Speaker 1: provokes anger on the part of the person that they're
9:24
Speaker 1: attempting to leave, which is why I actually think it's
9:27
Speaker 1: very interesting that this gentleman said that he was actually
9:31
Speaker 1: very angry with with her. He said that he was
9:36
Speaker 1: angry because she left, which may have even been what
9:40
Speaker 1: she was planning to do. But of course we don't
9:44
Speaker 1: know that she left, and really neither does heat, and
9:47
Speaker 1: so it's very unusual for someone whose spouse is missing
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Speaker 1: to suddenly just say that they're angry with the person
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Speaker 1: for leaving, because anger put some distance between us, and
10:00
Speaker 1: when you genuinely miss your spouse and didn't want them gone,
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Speaker 1: it's actually difficult to even connect with any feelings of anger,
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Speaker 1: even if they're appropriate. So the fact he's jumping to
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Speaker 1: anger with her in the case of someone who is
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Speaker 1: at best case missing, I think it's very unusual and
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Speaker 1: somewhat suspicious with me right now. You know his name
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Speaker 1: very well, renowned Chicago defense attorney Joel Brodsky. Let's just
10:27
Speaker 1: say this isn't our first time in the boxing ring.
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Speaker 1: Joel Brodsky defending Drew Peterson at trial. His long time
10:36
Speaker 1: defender Joel Brodsky was now, hold a minute. I've seen
10:40
Speaker 1: many a photo of Drew Peterson and for him to
10:43
Speaker 1: say the only physical incident they ever had was when
10:47
Speaker 1: she Stacy hit him in the head with a frozen steak,
10:52
Speaker 1: how'd you do that? Stand on ladder he towers over her.
10:55
Speaker 1: I mean he would, Uh. That was his position was.
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Speaker 1: He never was physical violent with any of his wives,
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Speaker 1: and he would always his excuse always was that, well,
11:05
Speaker 1: if if I, as a police officer, committed domestic battery,
11:08
Speaker 1: I lose my job. So I would never do that. Um.
11:12
Speaker 1: But you know, Drew was you know, trained, trained swat
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Speaker 1: train army officer. You know, if he wanted to resort
11:19
Speaker 1: to violence, he could, you know, do it in a
11:21
Speaker 1: way that wouldn't leave marks. He was an expert at that,
11:25
Speaker 1: you know, from the all the training in the department
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Speaker 1: and the army that he had. Um, you know, I
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Speaker 1: I've I know that there was with Cathy. I know
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Speaker 1: that there was evidence of some physical altercations nothing. You know,
11:41
Speaker 1: are you sure know how to put perfume on the pig?
11:43
Speaker 1: What do you mean by physical altercations with Kathleen? Saw
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Speaker 1: later found dead drowned in the dry bathtub. What do
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Speaker 1: you mean physical altercation? You mean he beat her up? No,
11:54
Speaker 1: they had a fight. Um that was on actually was
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Speaker 1: on videotape. Uh, Stacey actually taped it. Uh. You know
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Speaker 1: Cathy was very you know, very I went five acious.
12:07
Speaker 1: I mean, she wouldn't back down from anything. So they
12:10
Speaker 1: they went at it, but Drew was obviously so much
12:12
Speaker 1: physically stronger. He pinned her to the ground. Uh. And
12:15
Speaker 1: then the police came and charged them both with with
12:18
Speaker 1: battery kind of cross charges. Um. But you know there
12:22
Speaker 1: was no evidence of him ever by breaking bones or
12:25
Speaker 1: or causing bloody noses or anything like that. Okay, well
12:27
Speaker 1: what we wait? Hold on, Just Cheryl McCollum, have I
12:31
Speaker 1: lost my mind? I mean, Cheryl, you know that for
12:34
Speaker 1: nine years I volunteered at the Battered Women's Center at
12:37
Speaker 1: night when I was prosecuting. Uh. Do you hear Joel
12:41
Speaker 1: Brodsky still defending Drew Peterson. Uh, he says, well, there
12:45
Speaker 1: was never a broken bone, but oh yeah, he pinned
12:48
Speaker 1: to the ground. That was caught on video. Hello, it'll
12:52
Speaker 1: be a cold day in h e double all. My
12:54
Speaker 1: husband pains me to the ground and the police are
12:56
Speaker 1: not called. Okay, that ain't gonna happen, Cheryl, what happened?
13:00
Speaker 1: I feel like I went down the rabbit hole. Here's
13:02
Speaker 1: the deal. The devil take many forms, and the reality
13:07
Speaker 1: is a nineteen year old girl was married to a
13:11
Speaker 1: forty nine year old man and that was nothing about
13:14
Speaker 1: but control. And he abused his money with her, his
13:19
Speaker 1: emotions with her, his sex with her, his physical being
13:24
Speaker 1: with her. There's no doubt that every one of his
13:29
Speaker 1: four wives was abused in some ways. Drew was not
13:33
Speaker 1: about to let anybody get his money. They weren't gon
13:36
Speaker 1: touch his retirement. Okay, jumpion. Joel Drew was very controlling,
13:41
Speaker 1: very control. I mean, there's no question he was very
13:43
Speaker 1: controlling of all his wife. They all said that he
13:46
Speaker 1: would moonitor them, electronically follow them. You mean the GPS
13:53
Speaker 1: track round got on my husband is wrong. Just kidding. Okay,
13:56
Speaker 1: that's not true. Why did I say that, Joe Brawski.
13:59
Speaker 1: It would is the defense for Drew Peterson. His wife
14:03
Speaker 1: Stacy just goes missing in another thing that he said.
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Speaker 1: We just heard him tell the dctor. Phil was the
14:08
Speaker 1: brother in law, was a drinker. He was this, he
14:12
Speaker 1: was that that didn't happen. He didn't help him get
14:15
Speaker 1: rid of Stacy's body in a blue cooler. But they
14:19
Speaker 1: were caught on video together that night driving through a Starbucks.
14:24
Speaker 1: So the night Stacy goes missing, So how can he
14:27
Speaker 1: say they weren't together. I've I've watched the video. The video,
14:30
Speaker 1: I don't don't think that was before he gave that interview,
14:33
Speaker 1: before he charges had been brought, so, um, we never
14:37
Speaker 1: he had never seen the video at that point. He
14:39
Speaker 1: didn't know they had that of it. Joel, you know
14:41
Speaker 1: what you should consider professional dancing? Because you just danced around.
14:45
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call it dancing with the stars. You need
14:47
Speaker 1: to be there, buddy, Joel, I didn't ask you. Did
14:51
Speaker 1: the vin Starbucks video come to light after his statement
14:55
Speaker 1: to Dr Phil. You're just saying, yeah, he lied because
14:58
Speaker 1: he didn't know about the video. That what you're saying,
15:01
Speaker 1: I mean he obviously liked because he didn't know he
15:03
Speaker 1: was he had been caught. Um. You know, uh, if
15:05
Speaker 1: if you knew about the video, he would have altered
15:08
Speaker 1: the story in some way. I'm sure made up a
15:10
Speaker 1: different line. Julie, how do you stand yourself? Help me out.
15:14
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to use such a direct language, but yeah,
15:16
Speaker 1: I'm sure he wouldn't have said that if he knew
15:18
Speaker 1: that there was evidence to the contrary. Uh. But you
15:21
Speaker 1: know Drew was building, was you know, making this uh,
15:24
Speaker 1: trying to tell a consistent story about what happened to
15:27
Speaker 1: Stacy to keep with that. Um, his position that she
15:30
Speaker 1: ran away, that was his his story from day one. Uh,
15:34
Speaker 1: that she ran off with some other guys. D He's
15:37
Speaker 1: never wavered in his story. Robin Willinski ws B. Let's
15:42
Speaker 1: start at the beginning. We know she married him when
15:44
Speaker 1: she's nineteen, he's forty something. What happened around the time
15:49
Speaker 1: of Stacy's disappearance. As of right now today, she has
15:55
Speaker 1: never been seen again. The theory of Drew Peterson and
15:59
Speaker 1: his lawyer with us right now. High profile lawyer out
16:02
Speaker 1: of Chicago, Joe Albrowski is that she took off to
16:05
Speaker 1: be with her boyfriend. So what happened? Tell me the
16:09
Speaker 1: events around her disappearance, Robint. She was, she was very angry,
16:13
Speaker 1: she wanted out of the marriage. And you know, the
16:15
Speaker 1: one thing we have not mentioned so far Nancy, is
16:18
Speaker 1: the fact that that she was so Stacy was super
16:21
Speaker 1: petique and she could have fit in that barrel very easily.
16:26
Speaker 1: And there were reports at the time when I was
16:27
Speaker 1: down in Bowling Brooks that he had access to a
16:30
Speaker 1: small plane, and there was one theory that the bowling
16:33
Speaker 1: Brook Police and detectives were working on at the time
16:36
Speaker 1: that he had flown the plane and that he could
16:38
Speaker 1: have dropped the barrel into a forest area. And there
16:41
Speaker 1: were many searches at the time looking for that barrel.
16:44
Speaker 1: It had never been found in the forest, never been
16:47
Speaker 1: found at anybody of water. But she clearly Nancy could
16:51
Speaker 1: have fit in that barrel. They had a very tumultuous relationship.
16:54
Speaker 1: She wanted out and the next thing you know, she disappeared.
16:57
Speaker 1: She disappeared and has never been seen again. F y I.
17:02
Speaker 1: Right now we know that money has run dry, and
17:05
Speaker 1: Stacy's sister has actually launched an effort to raise money
17:11
Speaker 1: on a go fund Me site to continue the search
17:14
Speaker 1: for Stacy Peterson's body. Her sister, also, like me, believes
17:18
Speaker 1: that Stacy is dead. Go to go fund me and
17:22
Speaker 1: look for help me bring Stacy Peterson home. Help me
17:27
Speaker 1: bring Stacy Peterson home at go fund Me. Now what
17:31
Speaker 1: we do know now, Joel Bradsky, his defense lawyer, is
17:35
Speaker 1: not going to admit to this, okay, is that he
17:39
Speaker 1: has a brother in law apparent from one of his
17:42
Speaker 1: other marriages, showed up, was called over to Peterson's home
17:47
Speaker 1: that night and helped him carry a very heavy blue
17:51
Speaker 1: cooler out that was warm to the touch. And to
17:54
Speaker 1: this day that brother in law, who later tried to
17:57
Speaker 1: commit suicide, says he thinks he unwillingly helped dispose of
18:02
Speaker 1: Stacy's body. Her disappearance and or death still unresolved. But
18:09
Speaker 1: I'll give you a little sneak peek about what's happening tonight.
18:12
Speaker 1: Here is Joel Brodsky rightnowed defense attorney and Dan Abrams,
18:19
Speaker 1: and I are asking you just a few very polite questions.
18:22
Speaker 1: We are here with Joel Brodsky. So you know where
18:27
Speaker 1: the body is. You know where the body is? You said,
18:30
Speaker 1: you know where the body is. I said, I know
18:32
Speaker 1: what happened. So what happened Tonight? We uncover new witnesses
18:37
Speaker 1: and new evidence to shed light on the disappearance. And
18:42
Speaker 1: I believe the murder of Stacy Peterson. It's A and
18:46
Speaker 1: E tonight eleven o'clock eleven o'clock PM. Please join us.
18:53
Speaker 1: This wasn't boys being boys. This was murder of our son.
18:59
Speaker 1: You sink your whole life into your children. Um, you
19:04
Speaker 1: work for them, you save for them, you try to
19:08
Speaker 1: make sure they eat the right things, and they get
19:10
Speaker 1: enough sleep. And the dream that they go to a
19:14
Speaker 1: great college and somehow and in your mind that ensures
19:18
Speaker 1: that things will be okay for them and they'll they'll
19:22
Speaker 1: have a good life. Right well, this teen boy, a
19:27
Speaker 1: star football player and honors student, dead at pen State.
19:34
Speaker 1: Oh no, not by a knifing, not a gunshot wound,
19:39
Speaker 1: not a mugging in the parking lot, not a crash.
19:42
Speaker 1: His so called brothers forced him to run a quote
19:47
Speaker 1: gauntlet until he dies, and they let him lay there,
19:52
Speaker 1: according to grand jury testimony, with blows to the head,
19:58
Speaker 1: a ruptured spleen, as eighty percent of his body's blood
20:02
Speaker 1: drained into his abdomen, he bled out into his own
20:07
Speaker 1: stomach twelve hours. He lay there until he died. In
20:12
Speaker 1: the last days all charges, Ah, the major charges dropped
20:17
Speaker 1: straight out to John Limley Crime Stories investigative reporter. Let's
20:22
Speaker 1: just take it from the top. What can you tell
20:25
Speaker 1: me about Tim Piazza. He lived the better part of
20:29
Speaker 1: his life before he went off to college in Reddington Township,
20:33
Speaker 1: New Jersey. That was his hometown. Uh. He was a
20:36
Speaker 1: graduate there of Hunterdon Central Regional High School. He played
20:40
Speaker 1: foot ball, was on the spring track team. He took
20:44
Speaker 1: part in shot put, javelin, and discuss. He was a
20:47
Speaker 1: very involved student as well. He participated in the school's
20:51
Speaker 1: team prevention education program. He volunteered to help kids teach
20:57
Speaker 1: special needs children's football, basketball, in baseball. UH. He was
21:02
Speaker 1: a sophomore engineering student at Penn State University, where he
21:06
Speaker 1: was on the executive board of a special interest organization
21:11
Speaker 1: that benefited a Penn State Dance Marathon, a charity there.
21:15
Speaker 1: He loved spending time with his family, especially during the
21:20
Speaker 1: summers when they went to the beach. Friends went along
21:22
Speaker 1: on that as well. Uh, jet skiing, playing golf, taking
21:27
Speaker 1: in maybe a pick up hoop in friendly basketball games.
21:31
Speaker 1: He was said to be smart, funny, friendly, and really
21:37
Speaker 1: just a kind guy. You know, I'm overwhelmed at not
21:43
Speaker 1: only what happened to him, but an alleged cover up.
21:47
Speaker 1: I want to take it from before I go to Z.
21:50
Speaker 1: I want to start at A. We're talking about a
21:53
Speaker 1: teen boy, Tempianza, an athlete, and an honor student. What
21:58
Speaker 1: happened at night We know in the last hours of
22:03
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania judge just misses nearly three hundred charges in the
22:09
Speaker 1: penn State fraternity hazing death. I've been looking this judge up.
22:14
Speaker 1: I've been scouring everything I can find out to Alan
22:19
Speaker 1: Duke joining me out of l A. You know, Alan,
22:22
Speaker 1: I've been looking high and low. Looks like the judge
22:25
Speaker 1: that throughout all these charges related to Timothy piazzas not
22:30
Speaker 1: even a lawyer. I mean I looked up his two
22:33
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen bio that was in the paper, and in
22:38
Speaker 1: his own bio it doesn't mention a law degree or
22:41
Speaker 1: a law practice or anything. And I then looked up
22:46
Speaker 1: the statutes regarding a magistrate judge in that jurisdiction and
22:50
Speaker 1: it says a law degree is not required, that you
22:53
Speaker 1: can take a quote class a prep class, and you
22:57
Speaker 1: can be a judge many states. Yeah are Remember in Georgia,
23:01
Speaker 1: back when I was in college, I thought about wanting
23:03
Speaker 1: to be a probate judge, just part time because you
23:05
Speaker 1: did not have to have a law degree. You could
23:07
Speaker 1: just get back then back Yeah, Well things have changed. Alan.
23:14
Speaker 1: Now when you make legal decisions like throwing out three
23:20
Speaker 1: hundred of the most serious charges when a boy has
23:23
Speaker 1: been found dead, you would like a legal mind to
23:29
Speaker 1: throw out legal charges. I mean, okay, I'm getting ahead
23:34
Speaker 1: of myself again. Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor. I want to
23:38
Speaker 1: go through the facts as they relate to the charges.
23:42
Speaker 1: So that night Tim Piazza is he's joining a fraternity,
23:47
Speaker 1: All right, what do we know happen to Wendy? Yeah,
23:50
Speaker 1: well I think you you summed it up pretty well
23:52
Speaker 1: earlier when you talk about the crime versus the cover up.
23:55
Speaker 1: So it's hard to prove and that's not the prosecution's
23:59
Speaker 1: theory that the Eternity brothers intended for him to die.
24:02
Speaker 1: So then what we do, as you and I have
24:03
Speaker 1: done many times in corrid, is we look at the
24:06
Speaker 1: standard of reckless disregard and did the cover up? And
24:09
Speaker 1: I think that's a great way to put it in
24:11
Speaker 1: cases like this, did that kill him? Did that contribute
24:14
Speaker 1: to his death? That they obviously knew he was badly injured,
24:17
Speaker 1: yet did nothing. And that's the kind of standard that
24:21
Speaker 1: many courts that sustained murder convictions across the country every
24:24
Speaker 1: single day. But that apparently, according to the judge, was
24:28
Speaker 1: lacking here and that, as you say, and as Alan
24:31
Speaker 1: eloquently put it, that's really the outrage is should that
24:34
Speaker 1: person have been qualified to make a call when you
24:36
Speaker 1: actually have a young person that is dead, well, when
24:39
Speaker 1: she's talking about a cover up and Troy Slate and
24:42
Speaker 1: I know you've got a response to that, but I
24:43
Speaker 1: want to hear the facts, John Limley, he goes to
24:47
Speaker 1: the party that night, this team boy a February night
24:52
Speaker 1: and was forced to walk the gauntlet. What's that? Well,
24:58
Speaker 1: this is required of each and every pledge. It's an
25:02
Speaker 1: obstacle course of sorts which requires the pledge to drink
25:06
Speaker 1: first a bottle a complete bottle of vodka, drink a beer,
25:12
Speaker 1: and finally drink from a bag of wine. Now that
25:17
Speaker 1: would be enough to knock out most fellows around the
25:21
Speaker 1: age of twenty or so, but it was later revealed
25:24
Speaker 1: that Piazza took prescription antidepressants, which just accelerated his intoxication. Um.
25:33
Speaker 1: And here's another key, uh little fact in the piece
25:37
Speaker 1: and the puzzle. The fraternity was supposed to be alcohol
25:41
Speaker 1: free after a suspension just a few years before that.
25:46
Speaker 1: I didn't know that fact. I do know this. I
25:49
Speaker 1: know his blood alcohol was about point three six. That
25:54
Speaker 1: is the normal. The legal limit is point o eat.
26:00
Speaker 1: He was forced to have eighteen drinks vodka, eighteen vodkas
26:06
Speaker 1: in eighty two minutes. You would walk down a gauntlet
26:10
Speaker 1: of guys, fraternity brothers, all of them holding vodka, and
26:14
Speaker 1: you have to drink it till you get to the
26:15
Speaker 1: end of the line. Like one of those dance lines.
26:18
Speaker 1: Dr Tiffany Sanders. Dr Tiffany joining Me psychologists out of Chicago,
26:22
Speaker 1: You know where you go down the line and people
26:24
Speaker 1: are on either side and you dance down the line.
26:25
Speaker 1: Instead of dancing, you'd have to take all the vodka
26:28
Speaker 1: they were holding and drink it. And that's running the gauntlet.
26:32
Speaker 1: Eighteen drinks in eighty two minutes, point three six. That's
26:37
Speaker 1: blood alcohol poisoning levels. But that was just the tip
26:41
Speaker 1: of the iceberg. Dr Tiffany. Then he gets blows to
26:46
Speaker 1: the head and lays there to the point his skull
26:50
Speaker 1: was fractured, and nobody does anything. Dr Tiffany. He lays
26:55
Speaker 1: there dying. Nancy. I remember one of the largest African
26:58
Speaker 1: American supporties in the kind Tree and hazing has been
27:02
Speaker 1: on the forefront of many of these organizations minds because
27:05
Speaker 1: of the loss of UH members and pledges over the years.
27:09
Speaker 1: And a sorority and a fraternity is about relationships, sisterhood's, brotherhood's.
27:16
Speaker 1: Uh sure, there's sometimes fun until he pranks that people
27:19
Speaker 1: get involved in, but alcohol poison. I know that some
27:22
Speaker 1: of these kids are wise enough to be aware that
27:25
Speaker 1: drinking that much alcohol is going to have destructive effects.
27:30
Speaker 1: So it's very sad to hear that a young man,
27:34
Speaker 1: impressionable joining the organization looking to his future brothers for
27:39
Speaker 1: support and guidance, is leading him down a destructive and
27:43
Speaker 1: an unfortunately uh deadly path. So as a member of
27:47
Speaker 1: a sorority, I'm surprised and sadly shocked at this. Well,
27:51
Speaker 1: to me, a bigger concern is that it's happening over
27:55
Speaker 1: and over again, and it doesn't seem to be stopping
27:59
Speaker 1: and getting verse the hazing deaths. What more do we
28:03
Speaker 1: know about that night? Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, expert
28:08
Speaker 1: in forensics, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott,
28:12
Speaker 1: what do we know? Well? As you had well stated, Nancy,
28:15
Speaker 1: he had he had alcohol poisoning. Uh. And what we
28:20
Speaker 1: refer to this in medical legal terms is alcohol toxicity
28:24
Speaker 1: or ethanol poisoning, and it's incompatible with life. You couple
28:29
Speaker 1: that with these blows that he received to the head,
28:32
Speaker 1: and as you had mentioned, he had had some abdominal
28:34
Speaker 1: trauma to which caused him to slowly bleed out. If
28:38
Speaker 1: he has this much alcohol in his system, Nancy, Uh,
28:42
Speaker 1: there's not going to be an awareness that he is
28:45
Speaker 1: in distress. If all of these other people in this environment,
28:50
Speaker 1: um have a diminished response because they're all inebriated, they're
28:56
Speaker 1: not going to seek help. And I think probably Um.
28:59
Speaker 1: The the term that rings in my mind relative to
29:02
Speaker 1: this that's come up is the word apathy and um
29:08
Speaker 1: that they just didn't care, Nancy. And in these kinds
29:12
Speaker 1: of critical conditions, you have to have people that care,
29:15
Speaker 1: people that have an awareness that you know, he he
29:19
Speaker 1: could have been saved in my opinion, Nancy, but it
29:22
Speaker 1: would have had to have begun uh with getting him
29:26
Speaker 1: to the hospital in as shorter order as possible. They
29:29
Speaker 1: let this kid languish on the floor all of this
29:32
Speaker 1: time until he just died at their feet on that
29:35
Speaker 1: filthy floor. Jesse's Got Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University.
29:40
Speaker 1: What exactly medically were his injuries as discovered in autopsy? Well,
29:47
Speaker 1: he had a last ratted spleen. He also had a
29:51
Speaker 1: closed head injury, which is going to create uh oh,
29:54
Speaker 1: my stars. I woke up in the middle of the night,
29:57
Speaker 1: Joe's got Morgan thinking about a cl closed head injury.
30:02
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I guess it's a hazard of
30:04
Speaker 1: the business. I was thinking about closed head injuries, particularly
30:09
Speaker 1: as they relate to infants. A closed head injury simply
30:12
Speaker 1: is when you get shot in the head that's not
30:15
Speaker 1: closed yet. Closed head injuries when your for instance, hit
30:19
Speaker 1: in the head and from the outside you can't really
30:22
Speaker 1: see a laceration or a gunshot one you can't, but
30:25
Speaker 1: the lethal injury is inside the head. Sorry, Joe Scott,
30:30
Speaker 1: you just jogged a midnight memory. Go ahead, Yeah, and
30:33
Speaker 1: what what happens in these events nancies, when you have
30:36
Speaker 1: this so called closed head injury can be precipitated by
30:40
Speaker 1: blow to the head, which this child obviously and he's
30:43
Speaker 1: a child that he obviously sustained with pactured skull. You're
30:46
Speaker 1: not going to be able to see this externally, so
30:49
Speaker 1: it's not like there's gonna be blood all over the floor.
30:51
Speaker 1: Where that blood is going, though, Nancy, is that it
30:54
Speaker 1: is encasing the blood encasing the brain and causing cerebral swelling,
31:00
Speaker 1: which means swelling of the brain. And the brain is
31:02
Speaker 1: essentially being strangulated, and the brain is heavily depended upon
31:07
Speaker 1: being oxygenated. The more you choke it down with internal
31:11
Speaker 1: or intracranial pressure, that means the pressure around the brain.
31:15
Speaker 1: That means that it's being choked. The life is literally
31:18
Speaker 1: being choked out. And this takes a period of time.
31:22
Speaker 1: And this would have been quite obviously at autopsy. I'm
31:25
Speaker 1: sure that when they opened this child's head up at autopsy, uh,
31:29
Speaker 1: blood literally came pouring out, uh, clots and clots of blood.
31:34
Speaker 1: I've seen this a number of times in cases over
31:37
Speaker 1: the years. You will have also have seen the same
31:39
Speaker 1: thing in his abdomen he's got internal injuries, and that's
31:43
Speaker 1: their internal so there's not gonna be like a knife
31:45
Speaker 1: wound where he's spouting blood everywhere gunshot wound, as you
31:49
Speaker 1: had mentioned. His this blood is building up, so he's
31:52
Speaker 1: got blood that is essentially strangulating all of his organs,
31:56
Speaker 1: and his cavities are just filling up with it. And
31:58
Speaker 1: it's a horrible, horrible way to die. The way he
32:01
Speaker 1: hurt his head was trying to leave and falling backwards,
32:08
Speaker 1: falling down, falling downstairs, one blow after the next, after
32:13
Speaker 1: the next. I'm not sure how he gets the lacerated
32:18
Speaker 1: spleen though, just Scott, how do you get a lacerated spleen?
32:22
Speaker 1: Do you get that from falling downstairs? That seems kind
32:25
Speaker 1: of hard to believe. Well, in in my experience, when
32:28
Speaker 1: you have abdominal trauma, and most of the time, you know,
32:31
Speaker 1: our abdomen is kind of soft and it's it's relatively
32:34
Speaker 1: protected most of the time. In my experience, I've seen
32:37
Speaker 1: abdominal trauma in one of two ways, either from being
32:41
Speaker 1: kicked or being in a motor vehicle accident. Requires a
32:44
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of of of pressure, direct pressure to that
32:48
Speaker 1: specific area I've never seen someone fall down a staircase
32:53
Speaker 1: and sustained abdominal trauma like that unless they, you know,
32:56
Speaker 1: impale themselves. And of course that's a closed and I
32:59
Speaker 1: mean open injury. The head injury is easily explained in
33:02
Speaker 1: falling down staircase multiple times and having multiple strikes. So yeah,
33:06
Speaker 1: that is within the realm of possibility. But abdominal trauma,
33:10
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to buy that. Falling down a
33:12
Speaker 1: staircase it was for me too. It was for me too.
33:15
Speaker 1: What does the video show. We find out later that
33:19
Speaker 1: a lot of video was deleted, But what does the
33:23
Speaker 1: video show as far as him getting the head injuries?
33:26
Speaker 1: John Limley, Well, in the state of intoxication, as we've noted,
33:30
Speaker 1: he fell to the bottom of the basement stairs of
33:33
Speaker 1: the house, knocked unconscious. Uh. This is when he's carried
33:37
Speaker 1: to a couch, and this is where we received the
33:39
Speaker 1: first UH surveillance video of You can clearly see the
33:46
Speaker 1: formation of a large and obvious bruise on the left
33:50
Speaker 1: side of his abdomen. UH. One of the brothers, in fact,
33:55
Speaker 1: a fellow pledge, tried to convince the other guys that
33:59
Speaker 1: Piazza needed immediate medical help at that point, but he
34:02
Speaker 1: was just shoved aside, completely ignored. UM. A little bit later,
34:08
Speaker 1: Tim regained consciousness, he rolled off the couch and three
34:14
Speaker 1: of these UH fraternity brothers picked him up and slammed
34:19
Speaker 1: him back onto the couch. UH. This is when security
34:22
Speaker 1: footage shows the brothers slapping Piazza in the face, I guess,
34:26
Speaker 1: trying to waken him up, punching him in the stomach, which,
34:31
Speaker 1: as we've noticed, noted he already had some sort of
34:35
Speaker 1: injury to the abdomen. Pouring beer on him. UM, he
34:39
Speaker 1: remained unconscious, he didn't respond at all. He rolled off
34:43
Speaker 1: the couch again, curled his body and clutching his abdomen.
34:48
Speaker 1: At this point, m okay, Troy Slayton, it seems to
34:53
Speaker 1: get worse because what happened with me is Troy Slayton,
34:57
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer, defense lawyer out of l A. His
35:00
Speaker 1: name pops up all over the country in high profile cases. Troy.
35:05
Speaker 1: This is what's to me damning evidence. And I just
35:08
Speaker 1: don't know how to judge the quote air quote judge
35:12
Speaker 1: throughout these charges. But what we learned is the whole
35:17
Speaker 1: thing was videoed, and after Tim of the Piazza had
35:21
Speaker 1: been lying there. People were actually walking over his body
35:27
Speaker 1: who's at the foot of the steps, and that's on
35:29
Speaker 1: the video. And he has also seen being thrown onto
35:33
Speaker 1: a sofa, slam down, and he is completely comment dose,
35:38
Speaker 1: and they are filling up book bags full of books
35:41
Speaker 1: and laying on top of him so he won't fall off.
35:44
Speaker 1: They're slapping him in the face. And then we find out, Troy,
35:49
Speaker 1: that they start searching on their cell phones for alcohol poisoning,
35:56
Speaker 1: drank too much alcohol, body, cold, body stiff. I mean,
36:00
Speaker 1: give on, Troy, when somebody's body is cold and stiff,
36:03
Speaker 1: it's time to call nine one one. Just because something
36:07
Speaker 1: horrible happened, just because there was a tragedy that resulted
36:12
Speaker 1: in somebody's death, doesn't mean that every single person around
36:18
Speaker 1: is guilty of crimes, is guilty of involuntary manslaughter. You
36:23
Speaker 1: said that his blood alcohol level was point three six,
36:26
Speaker 1: several times over the state's legal limit, Yes, the legal
36:30
Speaker 1: limit for driving. And nobody was driving here, nobody was
36:33
Speaker 1: putting them behind the wheel of a car. And are
36:37
Speaker 1: we to be completely shocked that young college freshman and
36:41
Speaker 1: sophomore were drinking, that some freshman had handed another freshman
36:49
Speaker 1: some beer. Is that totally shocking and should that be
36:52
Speaker 1: a crime that, if somebody dies, results in the additional
36:58
Speaker 1: tragedy of every single person who was around going to
37:02
Speaker 1: jail for decades. The judge sat here for days and days.
37:10
Speaker 1: It was a preliminary hearing of unprecedented length, and found
37:13
Speaker 1: that the prosecution was unable to prove probable cause for
37:18
Speaker 1: the most serious charges, but he did hold them to
37:22
Speaker 1: answer for what was appropriate, some alcohol related charges for
37:28
Speaker 1: giving their friends some alcohol. I don't want to see
37:31
Speaker 1: it as a parent because I feel like it's going
37:33
Speaker 1: to be incredibly painful and the last memories of my
37:36
Speaker 1: son will be him being abused for twelve hours and
37:41
Speaker 1: dying a slow and painful death. Straight back to John Linley,
37:44
Speaker 1: Crime Stories, investigative reporter, What can you tell me about
37:49
Speaker 1: deleting the video when the cops show up, detectives arrived?
37:55
Speaker 1: What about who deleted video they did not want police
37:59
Speaker 1: to see? Who cleared out their cell phone text messages?
38:02
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about that? John Limley? There
38:05
Speaker 1: was the scury of activity in the UH. We think
38:09
Speaker 1: it was maybe forty minutes or so of debating what
38:13
Speaker 1: the next step should be after he was carried upstairs
38:17
Speaker 1: for the last time. The conclusion was made that Piazza's
38:23
Speaker 1: injuries were indeed serious, that he would require medical attention,
38:27
Speaker 1: and so panic set in. They started, you know, not
38:33
Speaker 1: only sort of trying to shore up their collective story,
38:37
Speaker 1: but also making sure that any evidence of text back
38:42
Speaker 1: and forth, because early in the evening someone had texted
38:47
Speaker 1: another brother and said, look, this looks pretty serious. I
38:51
Speaker 1: think this is going to be a problem. Um. So
38:54
Speaker 1: they spent quite some time trying to delete from their
38:58
Speaker 1: own devices from the security system before emergency assistance arrived.
39:04
Speaker 1: The brothers even tried to clean Tim himself up. They
39:08
Speaker 1: wiped blood from his face, attempted to dress him, but
39:13
Speaker 1: as you've already mentioned, his body was rigid. Uh, it
39:17
Speaker 1: was too rigid to even put clothes on his body. Rigid. Okay,
39:22
Speaker 1: Joe's got Morgan. The body is rigid, Yes, yes, And Uh,
39:28
Speaker 1: what this indicates is that rigor mortis had had begun
39:31
Speaker 1: to set in in this in this child. And this
39:34
Speaker 1: takes a number of hours for for a body to
39:38
Speaker 1: attain what we refer to as rigidity. Uh. Generally you
39:43
Speaker 1: only see it come about in the small muscles of
39:45
Speaker 1: the face and that's that's within you know, I don't know,
39:48
Speaker 1: maybe maybe about an hour and a half. But if
39:51
Speaker 1: you're talking about the limbs, the arms, legs, this sort
39:54
Speaker 1: of thing, we're talking about a huge time delay here, Nancy.
39:58
Speaker 1: A tremendous amount of time, as a matter of fact,
40:01
Speaker 1: way beyond what would be considered reasonable. Take a listen
40:05
Speaker 1: to what the prosecutor announced. The Commonwealth is prepared today
40:09
Speaker 1: to announce new charges. And these charges are a direct
40:12
Speaker 1: result of new evidence in this case. For those of
40:15
Speaker 1: you that are familiar with the situation and the death
40:18
Speaker 1: of Tempiazza Um, we have new evidence and that evidence
40:22
Speaker 1: is if you have been following it, Um, the State
40:25
Speaker 1: College Police Department was indeed able to recover the basement
40:29
Speaker 1: video in this case, and as a result of the
40:32
Speaker 1: conduct on that video, we are today announcing the filing
40:35
Speaker 1: of new charges from brothers from this fraternity. These charges
40:41
Speaker 1: raine range from manslaughter to hazing and also charges for
40:46
Speaker 1: the actual affirmative deliberate deletion of that video, which obviously
40:52
Speaker 1: pertained to Um capturing criminal conduct. So charges were filed
40:57
Speaker 1: in the case, all right, In the last hours we
41:00
Speaker 1: learned that charges have now been dropped and this is
41:02
Speaker 1: the way it went down. As I understand that Wendy
41:04
Speaker 1: Patrick California prosecuted with me. The state file the charges
41:08
Speaker 1: before this judge, who we believe doesn't have a law degree,
41:11
Speaker 1: got to keep searching for that one has not turned
41:14
Speaker 1: up no matter how much we look. So the judge
41:17
Speaker 1: throws out a ton of charges. Okay. They then find
41:22
Speaker 1: out about the deleted video where the fraternity brothers delete
41:27
Speaker 1: the video of what Piazza went through in the twelve
41:30
Speaker 1: hours before he's pronounced dead or before nine one one
41:33
Speaker 1: is even called. They delete all that it's found. The
41:39
Speaker 1: state uses that and files new charges. It goes back
41:45
Speaker 1: to the judge, and once again the judge throws out
41:50
Speaker 1: the charges after days of preliminary hearings. Take a listen
41:54
Speaker 1: to Tim's father. We'd like to thank the district Attorney
41:57
Speaker 1: and the State College Police for their continued commitment and
42:00
Speaker 1: efforts and finding justice for our sub Tim stuff. Tim
42:05
Speaker 1: wasn't happy and caring human being in a wonderful son
42:08
Speaker 1: who just wanted to join an organization to find friendships
42:11
Speaker 1: and camaraderie. Instead, he was killed at the hands of
42:14
Speaker 1: those he was seeking friendship from. We have spent the
42:17
Speaker 1: past eight months wondering how can this happen on the
42:20
Speaker 1: campus of Penn State. The visions of him lying in
42:23
Speaker 1: the hospital bed, battered and bruised and on life support,
42:28
Speaker 1: looking as if he got hit by a tractor trailer
42:31
Speaker 1: make no sense. He was just trying to join an organization.
42:36
Speaker 1: Over the last several months, we listened to defense arguments
42:39
Speaker 1: centered around victim blaming, or how could the defendants have
42:43
Speaker 1: known they were putting someone seriously seriously at risk since
42:46
Speaker 1: no one died before, as if they were entitled to
42:49
Speaker 1: one free death, or the catch all argument of we
42:53
Speaker 1: don't know. They claimed, we don't know what else happened
42:57
Speaker 1: other than what was seen in the upstairs video, and
43:00
Speaker 1: we don't know what happened in the basement. Guess what, guys,
43:04
Speaker 1: now we know we're making holiday plans without our son
43:12
Speaker 1: Tim because of your actions. If you did not commit
43:16
Speaker 1: the acts you did, we would not be here today,
43:19
Speaker 1: and would we be We would be anxiously awaiting Tim's
43:22
Speaker 1: return home for Thanksgiving break on Friday. That is Temperance's father.
43:27
Speaker 1: You know I'm looking right now, Jackie pulled it up again.
43:30
Speaker 1: This is the one I found. Is Judge Allen Sinclair, Sinclair.
43:34
Speaker 1: Judicial experience magisterial district judge, and I was a clerk
43:38
Speaker 1: for a federal magistrate judge. He did have a law degree,
43:41
Speaker 1: and it says other experience. He worked in juvenile division
43:47
Speaker 1: in the probation office. Then education. He went to Shippensburg University.
43:52
Speaker 1: I checked. They don't have a law degree. He has
43:54
Speaker 1: to be a criminology from Indiana University, Pennsylvania. So I
43:59
Speaker 1: don't see anything there about a law degree. Troyce Layton
44:04
Speaker 1: l a defense lawyer. That doesn't bother you, judge and
44:07
Speaker 1: the laws, the law, and because you didn't get the
44:11
Speaker 1: result that you may have wanted, you don't go attacking
44:15
Speaker 1: the entire legal system. Nancy. I'll tell you this much.
44:19
Speaker 1: If it were my child. And as he said, Joe
44:22
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, did you hear that that he looked like
44:25
Speaker 1: he had been hit by a semi truck trailer? Yeah?
44:28
Speaker 1: I did, Nancy, Absolutely brutal reminder of what was left
44:32
Speaker 1: behind of your child after you send them off to college. Uh,
44:37
Speaker 1: and just they're put through a meat grinder. But why
44:39
Speaker 1: why would he be covered head to toe in bruises?
44:42
Speaker 1: I don't understand that, Joe Scott I don't need either, Nancy. Uh,
44:46
Speaker 1: you know, the falling down the staircases thing. Uh, you know,
44:49
Speaker 1: and think about what else they're doing to him. I
44:52
Speaker 1: believe uh, someone had said earlier they were stacking books
44:55
Speaker 1: on top of him, uh, to keep him from falling
44:58
Speaker 1: off of the sofa. You've you've got this pack of
45:03
Speaker 1: of kids that are huddled around him. They're racing stuff
45:07
Speaker 1: off a videotape. Who knows what was going on and
45:10
Speaker 1: and what's missing? What the real story is here, Nancy?
45:13
Speaker 1: We do know this as kids dead. He's got a
45:15
Speaker 1: closed head injury, and he's got severe injuries to his abdomen,
45:19
Speaker 1: and he's been poisoned with alcohol. Because that's what this
45:22
Speaker 1: comes down to. When you say alcohol poison What do
45:26
Speaker 1: you mean by that? I mean that Let's let's look
45:29
Speaker 1: at it this way, Nancy. His but the normal the
45:33
Speaker 1: normal level for legally drunk to operate a vehicle is
45:36
Speaker 1: zero point eight. If I remember correctly, his is is
45:40
Speaker 1: at point three. Oh, this is in lethal range. You
45:44
Speaker 1: start to get up above if I remember correctly, above
45:47
Speaker 1: about a one point eight. You're already domist point where
45:51
Speaker 1: you can't even string sentences together. It's it's at that
45:55
Speaker 1: point that that the alcohol has now made it's incompatible
46:00
Speaker 1: with life as we like to define it. Your your
46:03
Speaker 1: brain can no longer function, You have no motor skills whatsoever.
46:07
Speaker 1: It will literally throw you into a comatose state. We
46:11
Speaker 1: are we know who's that is that, John Lemley, Go ahead, John, Yes, Uh,
46:16
Speaker 1: we know that, Nancy. That He continued before he was
46:20
Speaker 1: carried upstairs that last time to try to stand up
46:23
Speaker 1: to get out of there, he kept falling back down. Uh.
46:27
Speaker 1: He tried once to go towards the lobby area of
46:32
Speaker 1: the house. He fell there, hit his head into an
46:35
Speaker 1: iron railing and then landed on a stone floor, which
46:40
Speaker 1: that's probably where the most serious head trauma took place.
46:46
Speaker 1: He got up from that, tried to reach the front door.
46:48
Speaker 1: He fell head first into it, knocking himself unconscious again.
46:52
Speaker 1: He later even tried one more time to go down
46:56
Speaker 1: those basement stairs, fell down again and remained at the
47:00
Speaker 1: case of the stairs until several of the fraternity brothers
47:03
Speaker 1: discovered him several hours later. And this is when he
47:06
Speaker 1: was already cold and had a rapid breathing pattern. You know,
47:11
Speaker 1: I've noticed that it seems to me after reviewing everything.
47:16
Speaker 1: There have been accusations against Sinclair making errors of law
47:22
Speaker 1: in this case before. It's the district attorney then d A.
47:26
Speaker 1: Stacy Parks. Miller says, the courts failed miserably in the
47:31
Speaker 1: handling of the Beta Theta pie case. That's this case.
47:34
Speaker 1: So it seems to me that this has been an
47:36
Speaker 1: ongoing problem with this particular judge and Troy Slayton. It's
47:40
Speaker 1: not that I'm judge shopping. I just think dropping these
47:43
Speaker 1: charges is wrong, and I think it should go to
47:45
Speaker 1: a jury to decide. The judge is supposed to serve
47:49
Speaker 1: as the gatekeeper. Not every single charge that a prosecutor
47:53
Speaker 1: wants to bring gets to go in front of the jury.
47:55
Speaker 1: The judge gets to decide whether or not there is
47:59
Speaker 1: probable pause to hold these people to answer. And just
48:03
Speaker 1: because something horrible happened doesn't mean that everyone around him
48:07
Speaker 1: is guilty of these crimes. Now, where does a person's
48:11
Speaker 1: individual responsibility come into place? Nobody was holding his head down.
48:17
Speaker 1: He wasn't being held down strapped down to a table
48:20
Speaker 1: and alcohol being poured into his mouth. He had a choice.
48:25
Speaker 1: He had a choice to be there. He had a
48:27
Speaker 1: choice to be involved in that fraternity when they were drinking.
48:32
Speaker 1: He had a choice to leave if he wanted to.
48:35
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody was was When you say he was
48:39
Speaker 1: poisoned by alcohol by Joe Scott Morgan, Yeah, he was
48:44
Speaker 1: poisoned himself by alcohol. That doesn't mean everyone around him
48:48
Speaker 1: is guilty of involuntary manslaw. I still have a problem
48:51
Speaker 1: with them standing by after they fed him the alcohol
48:58
Speaker 1: and the pure pressure to go down the gauntlet and
49:01
Speaker 1: let him die, and they knew and then they helped him,
49:06
Speaker 1: then they helped him onto it. They didn't help him,
49:08
Speaker 1: and they tried, they hurt him. I mean, Wendy Patrick,
49:11
Speaker 1: how can that be viewed? I know Troy Slaves trying
49:13
Speaker 1: to argue they helped, but they knew the way they
49:16
Speaker 1: acted was wrong. They deleted the video and cleared out
49:19
Speaker 1: all their Google searches of body cold, stiff, too much alcohol.
49:25
Speaker 1: They knew what they had done was wrong. That's right.
49:27
Speaker 1: And you know this is all going to be great
49:29
Speaker 1: fodder for the no doubt, the wrongful death action because
49:32
Speaker 1: you're right, it's a supposedly alcohol free fraternity. They're probably
49:36
Speaker 1: scared to death that they've created the situation and then
49:39
Speaker 1: know that they've made it worse by the way they
49:41
Speaker 1: treated the body after this child had suffered the injuries
49:45
Speaker 1: that he did. And so even if Troy's argument would
49:48
Speaker 1: hold water at the front end perhaps when it all started,
49:52
Speaker 1: it's still circumstantially when you look at what those fraternity
49:55
Speaker 1: brothers did, or better yet, both did and failed to do.
50:00
Speaker 1: That is what the prosecutors were relying on for this
50:02
Speaker 1: involuntary manslaughter charge. And you know, I note that procedural
50:05
Speaker 1: history of this case as well. After those charges were
50:08
Speaker 1: not sustained, they actually refiled them once and still failed
50:12
Speaker 1: to sustain those charges. And it's true the judge cannot
50:15
Speaker 1: take to the airwaves and defend himself and the rational
50:18
Speaker 1: offers ruling. We're still left with that record and all
50:21
Speaker 1: that went on during that unprecedented eight day preliminary hearing.
50:24
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I've never been in
50:26
Speaker 1: a prelim in twenty years. The lasted eight days and
50:29
Speaker 1: still failed to find the kind of evidence that boy
50:32
Speaker 1: the victim's father really made the closing argument for manslaughter
50:35
Speaker 1: that we wish that we were going to be able
50:37
Speaker 1: to hear. Nonetheless, we'll probably hear it in the remaining
50:40
Speaker 1: charges as well. Just a heartbreaking set of circumstances. Is
50:43
Speaker 1: there anything now, Wendy Patrick, Well, it looks like they've
50:46
Speaker 1: exhausted the options legally available to them, barring new evidence
50:51
Speaker 1: being unearthed. And that's always what we look at, is
50:53
Speaker 1: will something surface that nobody knew about before we saw
50:56
Speaker 1: that already once with the video that would result old
51:00
Speaker 1: in in new charges, whether it's a charge of getting
51:03
Speaker 1: rid of evidence or something else, conspiracy maybe something, but
51:06
Speaker 1: it would need to be based on new evidence because
51:08
Speaker 1: what they have thus far has been shot down, not once,
51:11
Speaker 1: but twice. Is there any way they can appeal this
51:14
Speaker 1: magistrate's ruling? Well, based on what I've been reading so far,
51:18
Speaker 1: like everybody else, they've really thought through almost every avenue
51:22
Speaker 1: available to them legally, and if one comes available that
51:25
Speaker 1: would sustain that kind of an appeal, you bet they will.
51:28
Speaker 1: They have been relentless and passionate about pursuing justice for
51:32
Speaker 1: this young man. If there is a way to appeal it,
51:34
Speaker 1: I think that they will. For now. Listen to Timothy
51:38
Speaker 1: Piazza's parents, this wasn't boys being boys, This was murder
51:44
Speaker 1: of our son. They tortured him for twelve hours, They
51:47
Speaker 1: let him suffer for twelve hours. He died a slow
51:52
Speaker 1: and painful death at the hands of of of these
51:56
Speaker 1: men of principle, as as they call it. He was
51:59
Speaker 1: just an awesome an individual, and we're a little worse
52:02
Speaker 1: off as a world without a minute. Nancy Grace Crime
52:07
Speaker 1: Story signing off goodbye friend, h.