Latest / The Kevin Stone Podcast / Episode #41 "You Tried, She Lived, What Now?"

Transcript

Episode #41 "You Tried, She Lived, What Now?" · The Kevin Stone Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Opening i i really do now i do i have.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: A uh.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: A cheat sheet here for the names that are in
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: the story here because I will brutally assault.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Them if I don't.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: But I have a question today. I'm Kevin Stone. This
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: is the Kevin Stone Podcast. Thank you for tuning in.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: It is Friday, October the 2nd, 2026. And this is
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: a story that's in the news currently.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: And I have a question.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: And I don't think there's an easy way to answer
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: this question.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I really don't.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: What happens when the government sentences somebody to death, takes
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: them to the execution chamber, administers the drugs that are
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: supposed to kill them, and they don't die? Because that's
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: essentially where the state of Tennessee finds itself right now
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: with the Krista Pike case. And before anybody gets ahead
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: of me, let me make something very clear. This is
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: not an episode about Krista Pike being innocent.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: She's not. I'm not going to sit.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Here and try to convince you that she didn't commit
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: the crime she was convicted of. I'm also not going
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: to spend this episode arguing about whether the jury should
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: have sentenced her to death in the first place. That's
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: a different conversation. My question is much simpler. Tennessee tried
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: to execute Krista Pike. She survived. Should the state get
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: to try it again? Because my answer right now is no,
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: and I'll explain why. First, we need to talk about Colleen.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Before we talk about Krista Pike, we need to talk
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: about the person who can very easily be forgotten in
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: all this. Her name was Colleen Slimmer. She was 19
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: years old. In January of 1995, Colleen was a student
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: at the Job Corps Center in Knoxville, Tennessee. Krista Pike
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: was also a student there. According to the Tennessee Supreme
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Court's account of the evidence, Pike told another student the
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: day before the murder that she intended to kill Colleen.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: The following evening, Pike, her boyfriend, to Daryl, to Daryl Shipp,
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: another student, and Colleen left the Job Corps Center. Colleen
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: didn't come back. What happened to that young woman was horrific.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to go into every gruesome detail because
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: I don't think we need to, but she was beaten,
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: she was cut and stabbed, and suffered defense wounds, and
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: ultimately she died from severe injuries to her head. Krista
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Pike was convicted of premeditated first-degree murder and conspiracy to
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: commit first-degree murder. The jury sentenced her to death, and
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: that death sentence survived years of appeals. So again, this
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: isn't an innocent story. And whatever we're about to say
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: concerning Krista Pike, I don't want the name Colleen Slimmer
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: disappearing from this conversation. Because there is a family that
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: has lived with what happened to Colleen for more than
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: 30 years. Now let's jump forward more than three decades.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Krista Pike is 50 years old. Tennessee prepares to execute
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: her by lethal injection.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: The drug is.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Pentobarbital? Pentobarbital? Pentobarbital?
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: According to reports from witnesses and state officials, Tennessee administered
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: the first dose.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: It didn't kill her.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: The state's protocol provided for another dose. They administered the
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: second dose, and she still didn't die. According to witnesses,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: she continued breathing. She spoke during portions of the process
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: and later could be heard making snoring sounds. Eventually, the
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: execution was stopped. And here's where this story takes one
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: of the strangest turns I think I've ever seen. Krista
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: Pike was transported to the hospital from the prison. And
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: according to her attorneys, she was in critical condition receiving
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: life-saving medical treatment. Now just think about that sentence for
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: a minute. The government tried to kill her.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: It didn't work.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: So the government then had to help keep her alive.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Now that's some irony for you. And I'm not making
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: light of any of this.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I'm serious.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: At one point, the state is deliberately administering a drug
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: for the purpose.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Of ending this woman's life.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: And sometime later, medical professionals are trying to save that
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: same life. That ought to make everybody stop and think
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: for a minute, whether you're for the death penalty or
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: against it. So can they try again? This was one
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: of my first questions. Because my immediate reaction was, surely
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: the government doesn't get unlimited attempts at this. So? Charlie?
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, Kevin. There is Supreme Court precedent allowing a state
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: to make another execution attempt after the first one fails.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: The case is Louisiana X-Rail Francis V. Resweber, decided in 1947.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Well, that's inconvenient. Thank you, Charlie.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: Give the man a voice and he immediately starts disagreeing
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: with me. But Charlie's right. There actually is a Supreme
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Court case about this. Willie Francis In 1946, Louisiana attempted
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: to execute a young man named Willie Francis using an
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: electric chair.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Something went wrong with the equipment.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Francis survived. Louisiana wanted to put him back in the
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: electric chair and try again. The case eventually reached the
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: United States Supreme Court. And in 1947, the court allowed
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Louisiana to proceed with another execution attempt. Now that doesn't
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: mean the Supreme Court just gave every state a blank
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: check to keep trying until they finally get it right.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: The justices didn't all agree on the reasoning and the
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: circumstances of that particular case mattered. But the important thing
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: for our discussion is this. There is precedent for allowing
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: a state to try again. So legally, this isn't as
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: simple as saying you already tried once, double jeopardy, case closed.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: That's not what the Supreme Court said. And I'm not
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: a lawyer. I'm a guy with a microphone, a camera,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: a cup of coffee who now apparently has an off-camera
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: chief of staff correcting him. So I'm not going to
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: pretend I'm arguing constitutional law before the Supreme Court. I'm
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: asking a different question. Should they try again? Just because
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: the government can exercise a power doesn't automatically mean government
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: should exercise that power. That's where I keep coming back
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: to this. The state sentenced Krista Pike to death. The
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: state established an execution protocol. The Tennessee Department of Correction
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: says it followed every step of that lawful protocol.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: That's important.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: This wasn't simply somebody walking into the execution chamber and saying, Whoops,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: forgot the second half. According to Tennessee's own Department of Correction,
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: they followed the established procedure. Their own statement says the
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: protocol did not allow for additional procedures beyond what they
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: carried out that night. And Krista Pike survived.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: So now what? Do we heal her?
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: Send her back to prison? Wait for her to recover?
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: Strap her down again? Put another IV in her? And
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: tell her, okay, we're going to give this another shot?
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: I have a problem with that. A big problem. So
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: here's where I am right now. Change the sentence to
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: life without parole. Krista Pike doesn't walk out of prison.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: She doesn't get declared innocent. Her conviction isn't erased. Nobody
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: pretends that Colleen Slimmer wasn't brutally murdered. Nobody pretends that
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Krista Pike wasn't convicted of doing it. She simply spends
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: however much remains of her natural life in prison. Maybe
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: that's six months. Maybe that's six years. Maybe it's 30 years.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: But Tennessee attempted to carry out the death sentence.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: They tried.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: And they failed. To me, there has to be some
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: limit on government power. And that's really what this episode
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: is about for me. Not whether I like Krista Pike.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Not whether I sympathize with her.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: And not whether I support capital punishment generally. It's about
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: how much power we're willing to give government over another
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: human being. Because government power does not suddenly become unimportant
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: when it's being exercised against somebody we despise.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Matter of fact, that's probably.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: When we ought to pay the most attention to it.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: Now there's another side to this story, and it's a
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: legitimate one. Someone could say, Kevin, the sentence wasn't attempted death,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: the sentence was death. And they're right about that distinction.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: The jury didn't sentence Krista Pike to one attempt at execution.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: They sentenced her to death. And because she remains alive,
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: someone can reasonably argue that the sentence simply hasn't been completed.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: There's Supreme Court precedent supporting the government's ability, at least
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: under some circumstances, to make another attempt. And then there's
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Colleen's family. Imagine Wade more than three decades for the
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: sentence to finally be carried out. You go to the prison,
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: you witness the execution, and then it doesn't happen. I
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: can't pretend to know what that feels like. And I'm
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: certainly not going to tell Colleen Slimmer's mother how she
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: should feel about any of this. She witnessed the failed executions.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: She said she does not believe justice was served, and
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: I think she deserves to be heard. And apparently, Tennessee
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: itself realizes something went seriously wrong. Governor Bill Lee called
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: what happened deeply disturbing. He ordered a comprehensive third-party review
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: of the attempted execution. And Tennessee's remaining scheduled executions for
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: 2026 have been halted, and I think that's appropriate. Because
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: before Tennessee even thinks about putting another person on that table,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: somebody better figure out what happened. And certainly before anybody
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: talks about putting Krista Pike back on that table, we
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: ought to know exactly what went.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Wrong the first time. Where's the line?
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: Here's the question I keep coming back to. If one
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: failed attempt doesn't stop the government, what about two?
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: What about three?
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: At what point does carrying out a sentence become something else?
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly where.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: The constitutional line ultimately gets drawn in a case with
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: facts like these. Courts may eventually have to answer that.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: But I know where my line is. Tennessee had the opportunity.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Tennessee administered the drugs. Krista Pike survived. And now Tennessee
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: is responsible for keeping her alive while she's in its custody.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: So let her live. In prison. For the rest of
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: her natural life. No parole. No release.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: No pretending the crime didn't happen. And no forgetting Colleen Slimmer.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Because ultimately, that's the part I don't want lost in
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: this whole strange story. Krista Pike is alive. Colleen Slimmer
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: is not. Colleen was 19 years old when her life
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: was taken from her. Nothing Tennessee does to Krista Pike
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: is ever going to bring Colleen home.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: So maybe justice now means Krista Pike wakes up every
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: morning for however many more mornings she has left inside
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: a prison, knowing exactly why she's there. You can disagree
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: with me. Matter of fact, this is one of those
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: subjects where I expect most of you to disagree with me,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: and that's okay. The question isn't whether Krista Pike deserves
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: your sympathy. The question is, how many times should the
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: government be allowed to try to kill the same person?
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: For me, Once was enough. I'm Kevin Stone. This is
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: the Kevin Stone Podcast. You can find the show on YouTube,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Spreaker. If you
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: enjoy the show, follow or subscribe wherever you.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Listen or watch.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: And apparently Charlie now has a voice.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: God help us all.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.