Latest / Mental Health Matters for Christians / Ep5 She Lost $1M to Gambling, Then the 12 Steps Led Her to Jesus & Freedom | Katina

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Ep5 She Lost $1M to Gambling, Then the 12 Steps Led Her to Jesus & Freedom | Katina · Mental Health Matters for Christians

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  To my biggest complaint to both of my parents was why can't you
• 0:03
  love me just the way I am? Why do I have to be like so and
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  so's daughter? If you don't love me for who I
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  am, who's going to love me? And I honestly at one point said
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  to my son, if I don't wake up tomorrow, I'll be fine because I
• 0:16
  didn't know how to get myself out of the financial mess that I
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  had gotten myself into till I called my dad and I said, daddy,
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  I need $25,000 to pay the rent for the gas station.
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  My brother paid for me to go to treatment.
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  He sent me to Minnesota to a treatment Center for gamblers.
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  And the treatment center was here and the casino was here.
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  No. Next door, yeah.
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  And it was just about next door and I thought to myself, I could
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  walk to the casino, they'll never know I'm gone.
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  Hey everybody, I'm Christine Sneeringer and I'm your host of
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  the Mental Health Matters for Christians podcast, where we
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  unpack transformation stories to give you hope and practical
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  insights to help you get unstuck and experience more of the
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  freedom that Jesus promises his followers.
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  I learned a lot from my next guest, Catina, who lost
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  everything in a gambling addiction.
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  She also struggled with a drug addiction before getting help in
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  the 12 step programs. And that's where she ministers
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  to other women who struggle with addiction.
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  But not only that, she also uses that as an opportunity to share
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  the gospel to those who are open to it.
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  Let's get into it. Please welcome, Catina.
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  Thank you. Yes.
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  And please say your last name for me.
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  Inagano Stakis. Greek.
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  Yes, Right. I'm sure it gets butchered.
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  I think my last name is hard, but yours is.
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  Yeah, it always gets butchered. You're a good sport about it.
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  For those who don't know you and don't know your story, can you
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  just tell us who you are? OK, yeah, well, I come from a
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  very well-rounded, very close knit family and my parents were
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  very religious Greek Orthodox. And so we got, we were raised
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  very walking a path of doing the right thing.
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  OK, OK. As far as religion goes, that's
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  how. That's how we were raised.
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  Going through the motions again, going.
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  Through the basically going through the motions because in
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  in doing that, though, it was all out of love, especially with
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  my mother, she wanted me to be the best of the best.
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  So she would set very high standards that were very
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  difficult for me to meet. And to my biggest complaint to
• 2:42
  both of my parents was why can't you love me just the way I am?
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  Why do I have to be like so and so's daughter or you know, it
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  was that type of thing. And I was always getting
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  compared. And because of that, even though
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  they were coming from a loving place and wanted me to be the
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  best, I took it the, you know, to the other spectrum.
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  I I just kept saying, well, if you don't love me for who I am,
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  who's going to love me for who I am?
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  What a rich question. Yeah.
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  Like how old were you when you feel like you that question
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  occurred to you? I probably right before becoming
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  a teenager. I was probably 12.
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  Really. And you and you realized that.
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  Well, yeah, because I kept, you know, the the question was
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  always why can't you love me the way that I am?
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  And why am I not good enough? You know?
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  And it just seemed like I was never going to be enough for
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  them. So part of my addiction became
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  more wanting more of everything, you know, and just wanting to
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  feel comfortable in my own skin. I just didn't know how to love
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  myself because the most important people in my life, I
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  felt, which wasn't true. In hindsight, I see that they
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  did the best that they could. But in hindsight, I felt that,
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  you know, I could never measure up.
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  I was never good enough, you know?
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  So I just wanted to feel like I was OK, like it was OK to be me,
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  you know. And so that really is what
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  started me dabbling into the, you know, smoking pot and, and
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  alcohol. And, you know, those were the,
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  and I was in high school when I started.
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  So I was what, 1415? And I was accepted by all the
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  potheads across the street. You know, they just love me
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  coming over. They don't accept anybody right
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  there. So that felt good.
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  Yeah, that felt good. The first time you felt a sense
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  of belonging? Yeah, really.
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  Yeah, you know, and, and it was funny, actually, I had first
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  started dabbling and I was in middle school because I got, I
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  got caught. We got caught over by the paddle
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  ball courts getting high and they took us into the office.
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  This is at school I guess, right?
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  Yeah, this is at school. We were all and, and I was the
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  lookout and of course I could see the principal coming and I'm
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  like run, you know, and everybody ran, but I got caught.
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  Oh no. So.
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  Everybody else got away. For the most part, until yours
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  truly told on everyone because I got so scared.
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  They're like, you're going to go to jail.
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  And you know, I was young then. I didn't know naive.
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  And yeah, I started telling them everything they wanted to know.
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  A confession. A full confession.
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  Full confession. Yeah, it's lost a lot of
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  friends, I bet. But it didn't stop me.
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  It didn't stop. I mean, my poor parents came,
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  and my mom came to pick me up, and she was bawling, and I'm
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  laughing at her because I was so high out of my mind.
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  Yeah, And, you know, she couldn't understand.
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  Now, the background of my parents is they came here from
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  Greece in the 60s with no language.
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  They only spoke Greek. So they were trying to acclimate
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  into the American way, which was so foreign to the way they were
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  raised, you know, And so I was kind of breaking them in pretty
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  good. Well, I'm curious also, where
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  are you in the birth order? Do you have siblings and where?
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  I have. Siblings.
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  I have two younger brothers. Well, one passed away in 2021,
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  but I have the other one. And yeah, but I was the leader
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  of the. So that that put more pressure
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  on you as the oldest. You know, yes, only because I
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  got blamed for everything. OK, you know what I'm saying?
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  And I have to be the example for them.
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  That's what I can say. You're the first one.
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  So maybe more pressure for you to to live up to whatever their
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  expectations. Was the only girl, you know,
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  it's two younger brothers and they always picked on me.
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  They just, oh, they just love to pick on the brothers.
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  Yeah, brothers. Are mean?
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  I'm sorry but I have AI, have a brother who was mean and.
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  They're so funny, you know, But at the end, you know, at the end
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  of the day, I, I was what they followed.
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  I was the example. For your brother.
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  And unfortunately they, you know, fell into the trap of
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  addiction like I did. So what?
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  Also, where were you growing up? What part of the country?
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  Florida. Oh, OK.
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  Yeah, we, we. I was born in Canada.
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  We moved to upstate New York. We lived there for three years.
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  My father hated the cold. So we migrated down to Florida
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  and I've been here ever since. And so really this area, Fort
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  Lauderdale, that was my stomping ground.
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  That was, you know, where I was raised in Plantation.
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  And I, yeah, I was. I was a real rubble.
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  So take me back to let's see you.
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  You got caught and but you were saying at 12 years old, you
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  asked a really hard question of like, why can't you love me for
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  me? Yes.
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  And I think that is what led me to really just begin the the
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  rebellion, you know what I'm saying?
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  Like. Because if I'm never going to
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  measure up, then why try? And, and The funny thing is in
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  the, you know, in the aspect of the, the, our church aspect, OK,
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  the, there were things that were expected of me, you know, and to
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  be proper, to be prim, you couldn't dress a certain way,
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  you know, and that was, that also led me to believe that
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  again, I wasn't good enough. For God, yeah.
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  OK, so you you have to look a certain way to go to church and.
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  You have to behave a certain way and you know you had to.
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  You couldn't. Like my mom would always say, my
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  number one friends are in church so you need to dress a certain
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  way. Oh, she she wanted you to
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  impress her friends. Oh, Lord.
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  OK. And, and so, you know, it was,
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  it was so conflicting because I know she loved me so much.
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  Later in life, she, she had Alzheimer's and there was so
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  much love that came out of her. There was so there was not a
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  mean bone in her body. You know, a lot of people that
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  have Alzheimer's get nasty and they're mean.
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  And they were, she was not like that.
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  There was so much love in her. And so I have to believe that
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  she truly, truly loved me to the best of her ability.
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  But there's this essence coming from a, a line of priests, you
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  know, she comes from my yeah, my grandfather was a priest, My
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  uncle was a priest. And so that was carried on.
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  And, and there was a sense of of dignity of, you know, the ego
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  that sets in with that. You know, like everybody really
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  honored them wherever they went. So, you know, there was all
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  that. And she came here and thought
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  that it was going to be like that.
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  You know, how it was in Greece for them.
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  And surprise. Nope.
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  In what way was she thinking it was going to be like that?
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  Like. Like she was going to have, you
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  know, to raise the best kids and have her family be the prominent
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  family in society be. Respected be.
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  Respected and so on. And though their friends adored
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  them, my parents were very loved.
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  My father was the one person that everyone, all the men would
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  go to and talk to. For advice.
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  Yeah, And my father would never come home and tell my mom
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  anything. He he took everything with him
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  to the grave. He nobody ever knew any that
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  that's who my father. Was so people saw him as wise.
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  Yes, very, very, very wise. My father, my both of my parents
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  in different aspects as I was growing up.
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  After I came out of my addiction, of course, I realized
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  that they were my heroes. So you so at the time you
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  couldn't appreciate that they're so they were so respected and
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  this kind of thing. But it was like in hindsight,
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  which we all say is 2020, right? Yep, Yep, it really is.
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  And, and they really I have become a lot like my mother and
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  a lot like my father. OK, take the best parts of them,
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  right? Yes, I really did.
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  I really did because, and it's so funny how when we're growing
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  up, we pay no attention to what they do, right?
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  It's like they just do and we're not really.
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  I'm not focused intentional about it.
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  And now years later, here I am and I can see where I didn't
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  really have to be intentional about it.
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  It just, it just became a part of me.
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  Well, I think we're growing up where we're, we want what we
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  want and they're the obstacle to get in the way of what we want.
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  We want our agenda, we want to do.
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  We want to play with our friends and do the things they do.
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  And if they want to stop us from that, which because they know
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  better, you know, they have more life experience, you know, some
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  people are probably not, we shouldn't be hanging out with.
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  Yeah, yeah. Which was, at the end of the
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  day, what I constantly was hearing, you know?
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  Oh, they didn't like your friends?
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  Your friends, wisely you know who your friends are, will tell
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  us who you are or what however that cliche goes.
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  And and I would hear that a lot from my parents, which drove me
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  more into wanting to be with these people because I felt like
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  they were being judged and nobody has the right.
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  You see how I took it? OK, wait, yes, your friends are
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  the potheads and the we called them the burnouts when I was at
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  school. OK, yeah.
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  So that's your tribe and everybody's judging them for
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  being potheads and burnouts, and you're like, they're not getting
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  a fair shake. Yeah, and that's really how and
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  and that myself and and my younger brother always had a
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  love for those for the addict. So it's like you had a love for
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  the underdog. Yeah, always, always the
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  underdog. Is it that you wanted like you
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  saw the good in them that other people couldn't see?
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  You know what? I I don't know that it was that,
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  but there was something inside of me that believed in them.
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  And nobody else did. And nobody else did.
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  They were losers. They were.
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  But I there was, I couldn't. I do not believe that anybody is
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  a loser. Good for you, I.
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  Believe that that is a lie that the enemy has created to keep us
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  in whatever is distracting us from the truth.
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  From of who we are. Yeah, that's it. 100%.
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  Identity, you know, And so that's why, you know, I had, I
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  had just such a love for them. I really did.
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  And they did come. Our backgrounds were very
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  different. I came from, I wouldn't say we
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  were wealthy, but we were well to do.
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  And most of them were struggling, you know, they were
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  blue collar, their parents were blue collar and not the best
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  manners and so on. And that was what I grew up
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  with. And my parents tried so hard to
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  pull us away from that, to keep us in the Greek environment, you
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  know, because they felt that the Greek environment was, give or
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  take, the perfect environment. You know, it was, you know,
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  running with the Joneses, running after the Joneses.
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  How are we going to keep up with the Joneses?
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  And it was that type of thing. And it was something that I
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  loathed. I loathed.
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  I did not like that in my. Because you could see already
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  that it was that was about image.
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  Yes. So you could see through.
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  Yeah, the facade it was. That was it.
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  It was a facade. And as I grew older, OK, though
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  I was smoking pot and and drinking, there was a point in
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  time through my marriage that I did not OK.
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  So I had completely stopped. And then after I got divorced,
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  it all flared up again because again, I felt like I wasn't good
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  enough. I failed, you know what I'm
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  saying? Wait, so, so back up for a
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  second. So you, you're with the burnouts
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  in high school and then you, you jumped to marriage.
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  So I don't know how old you were when you got married.
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  I was. 20 before when I got married.
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  Now did you marry a a burnout one of the one of the people in
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  this. Greek I married a Greek man.
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  Like a good Greek. Woman should Greek girl.
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  So did you. Have my big fat Greek wedding.
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  Yes, Yes, we did. Did you really?
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  I did not want it. I asked my dad.
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  I said just give me the money and let's have a small wedding.
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  I have one daughter and I want to celebrate this.
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  And so, yeah, we had a big fat Greek wedding.
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  Oh my. Stars and you wanted what did
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  you want to do just go away and I.
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  Just wanted something small and simple, which you know, I, my
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  kids will tell you I love being the center of attention.
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  So I don't know where that came from at that time that I wanted
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  something small and simple. But I did know that a lot of the
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  people that were coming to my wedding, I didn't know.
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  So these are your parents friends.
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  This is for them. This is a party for them.
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  Back then, it was a thing, right, where the parents paid
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  for the wedding and the parents invited all their friends and,
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  you know, all their, you know, attorneys and all that.
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  And so, so that was my, that was my wedding.
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  And we were together for 12 years.
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  So were you clean when you married him?
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  Yes, yes. So.
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  How long had you been clean? I had been clean probably a
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  little bit right before I got married.
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  So I was, I had stopped that. I mean, alcohol, we would still
• 16:27
  go out and I may have a drink, right.
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  But it was the pot. That was my real drug of choice.
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  That was really what you know and that I didn't do the whole
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  time, the whole 12 years that I was married, I did.
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  Not did you stop it for him You were like, I want to keep this
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  guy I want to impress this guy I.
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  Don't know if it was for him. I think it was before that.
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  And, and the other thing too is and, and people don't believe
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  this, but smoking pot does fry your brain.
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  It does do something to brain cells because there's a lot that
• 16:58
  I don't remember that I was a very much a part of.
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  And so I know that it is not, you know, I, I know that it's
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  not dementia or anything like that.
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  I know because it's been years and I haven't been able to
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  remember it. So I don't think it was for him.
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  I think it it just happened naturally happened.
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  OK, wait a second. Which is really weird.
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  Yeah. Because because we're talking
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  about addiction and I don't know many people who say my addiction
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  just kind of naturally, yeah. It it kind.
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  Of lost its grip on me or something.
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  It kind of naturally stopped it and it was for a season, but
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  when I stopped, when I ended up, when I divorced, it all came
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  right back. So wait, I mean, I feel like if
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  I'm watching this, I'm going, oh, if I get married then my
• 17:51
  addiction will go away. No, it's just this is my
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  journey. This was just my journey.
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  Maybe you didn't need it while you were married because before,
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  I don't know, I'm just curious so.
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  Curious. I also I also have to say that
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  at the age of 17 was when I gave my life to Christ.
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  OK, that's important. So let me just make the.
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  Way I met this man. Yeah, I'm going.
• 18:14
  To be all over the place. Yeah.
• 18:15
  No, it's all right. OK.
• 18:17
  Age of 17. I did give my life to Christ,
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  and that was the beginning of the addiction dissipating.
• 18:24
  Oh. Well, does that make sense?
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  Because maybe you were walking because I was trying to
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  understand you were drinking. I think to numb the pain of not
• 18:31
  ever feeling good enough. Yes, 100%.
• 18:35
  Because that is painful. Yeah.
• 18:36
  To feel like I'm never going to and I acceptable.
• 18:41
  As I, you know, started to walk with the Lord.
• 18:46
  I had gone to a church at the time, and I don't remember.
• 18:49
  I think it was on Atlantic Blvd. And it was called Abundant Life.
• 18:52
  Oh yeah. And.
• 18:54
  I that was off of Banks Rd. Yeah, yeah, Atlantic it was.
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  So excited and I went. Pastor's name?
• 18:59
  I don't remember Rick Thomas. OK, so and and I went and there
• 19:05
  was praise and worship was the first time I'd gone to a non
• 19:07
  denominational church so. He must have taken you there,
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  no? Yeah, I want to say yes, but I
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  don't remember who. OK.
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  So somebody takes you there. It's very lively.
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  I've been there. So it was very lively and I
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  loved it. And I go home and I said, mom, I
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  went to a church and they were preaching Jesus.
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  She looked at me. She goes, you're the devil.
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  You're not my daughter. She started throwing things at
• 19:30
  me. I run in my room and I close the
• 19:32
  door and I said, Lord God, please forgive her.
• 19:33
  She knows not what she's doing. And I knew in that moment that
• 19:36
  she did not understand that her walk with God was very a formal
• 19:43
  walk. Yes, you know what I'm saying.
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  I'm very formal like this. Formal.
• 19:47
  It was in a box, the Greek Orthodox.
• 19:49
  Box and so and so I totally became free in that moment you
• 19:57
  know and it was it was funny but because of the rebellious side
• 20:04
  of me her reaction drove me stronger into.
• 20:08
  OK, so you didn't say, oh, maybe I should go back to the Greek
• 20:12
  Orthodox Church. You were like you were on to
• 20:14
  something. I was on to something and TBN
• 20:17
  was, I woke up to it, I slept to it, I prayed with it, you know,
• 20:22
  and I, it was constantly watching it.
• 20:26
  I'm thinking you're still in high school though, right?
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  Yeah, 17. I was still in high school.
• 20:30
  Was I still? Yeah, I was still in high.
• 20:31
  School are your friends still. The burnouts are you starting to
• 20:33
  pull away from. Them well yeah, they were still
• 20:36
  the burnouts but. And and this was secret, I
• 20:40
  didn't. Your faith life was a secret.
• 20:42
  I didn't. Tell them.
• 20:44
  Like. Yeah, I didn't know that that
• 20:46
  was, but you know, as time went on, I started to share my
• 20:52
  journey, so a lot of them started dropping.
• 20:55
  Oh, friends, I think we call it a CIA Christian.
• 20:58
  You know, I have a friend who accused me of that years ago.
• 21:00
  So yeah. So you know and.
• 21:03
  So then. So then you started to open up
• 21:05
  about your faith. Yeah.
• 21:06
  And then they that's it. They're like, I'm out.
• 21:08
  I still went to the Greek Orthodox Church.
• 21:10
  I still honored my parents. To please your mom and dad, I.
• 21:13
  Did I still honored them? I didn't take that, you know,
• 21:17
  because and, and you know, one of the 10 commandments is honor
• 21:21
  your father and your mother. And it wasn't going to change my
• 21:24
  relationship with Christ going to the Greek Orthodox Church.
• 21:28
  I still had that relationship. You could go there, make them
• 21:32
  happy, and then do the church that you really enjoyed.
• 21:34
  And so I remember listening to Dwight Thompson at that time on
• 21:39
  TBN and you know, he would prophecy and I would take it
• 21:42
  all. I was like a sponge.
• 21:44
  I just wanted to know more and so that started to be like the
• 21:49
  new high for me. Oh, so, so we you've probably
• 21:53
  heard this phrase where you're trading addictions.
• 21:55
  Yes, yes, seriously. And that's how it was.
• 21:59
  OK. So I don't want to say like
• 22:02
  that's AI mean. I think generally trading
• 22:04
  addictions is a bad thing, OK. Yes, it is.
• 22:07
  OK, but how can we say that being addicted to Jesus is a bad
• 22:11
  thing? That's it.
• 22:12
  And so it's what? In my?
• 22:14
  In my if I were to explain it to someone, it's what the enemy
• 22:19
  wanted to take for bad that God did and took for and and made it
• 22:24
  something beautiful at that time.
• 22:26
  OK, so my love for Jesus was so strong that I just wanted more
• 22:30
  of him and I wanted to be almost falling into the perfection of
• 22:36
  the religion. You see what I'm saying?
• 22:38
  You can see where now the old tapes are running you because is
• 22:43
  it part of like, you were never good enough for your parents,
• 22:46
  now you're trying to be good enough for God.
• 22:48
  So the little religion treadmill.
• 22:49
  So that was it, that because I didn't have the clarity.
• 22:53
  We tried to earn just. Yeah, I was growing.
• 22:56
  Earn his approval, his love. I was.
• 22:58
  Growing. And I was afraid to tell people
• 23:00
  that that's what I was doing because I didn't want all eyes
• 23:03
  on me. Because the minute you tell
• 23:05
  someone you're a Christian, all of a sudden they're watching
• 23:07
  your every move. Oh, and they'll tell you when
• 23:09
  you step out of line, you don't live up to what Christians are
• 23:12
  supposed to do. Right.
• 23:13
  And how dare you, you know, and, and you get all that.
• 23:16
  And I was afraid of that. So I that's why I didn't talk
• 23:18
  about it a lot. You know what?
• 23:20
  That's so funny. I And to this day, I still
• 23:23
  won't. I won't put a Christian bumper
• 23:26
  sticker on my car because I don't always drive like a
• 23:29
  Christian. No and right.
• 23:32
  Because when I see the Christian bumper sticker, I expect more
• 23:34
  from that person. And that is, I'm going to tell
• 23:37
  you, here's a funny story. I was coming out of Publix and
• 23:40
  this woman is screaming at this other lady who wasn't backing.
• 23:44
  She literally got out of her car to yell at her because she
• 23:46
  wasn't getting out. She wasn't backing out quick
• 23:49
  enough. From the parking space in the.
• 23:51
  Parking space This woman had a symbol of you know the.
• 23:55
  Fish. The woman who's yelling at the
• 23:57
  other lady had a fish. And I walked by and I said, is
• 24:00
  there what Jesus would do? And she turned around and she
• 24:04
  just, her mouth dropped. She went by back in her car.
• 24:08
  Oh wow, so that, so you're, it's exactly what I'm talking about.
• 24:11
  It's like you put that sticker on your car.
• 24:14
  We expect more from you. We have yeah, if that's what you
• 24:19
  know. And and I find this a lot in my
• 24:22
  recovery. OK, my girls I the first time it
• 24:26
  hit me was when someone, one of my girls repeated verbatim what
• 24:31
  I had told her. So wait, let's talk about what
• 24:32
  your girls are. It's not your daughter.
• 24:34
  My sponsees, right? People that you're sponsoring in
• 24:36
  recovery. So we haven't got to the
• 24:37
  recovery part, but I want to hear about this.
• 24:39
  So so you so you got married and then 12 years later that I don't
• 24:45
  know how you say yeah, falls apart.
• 24:46
  I'm not sure. Yeah, it just didn't work out
• 24:48
  and we ended up divorcing. And then I had also quit smoking
• 24:54
  cigarettes. So one fine day I owned the gas
• 24:57
  station, and one fine day I was sitting on the curb and I said,
• 25:00
  you know what? Smoking cigarettes was the only
• 25:03
  thing I did for myself. Doesn't bother anyone.
• 25:06
  Not getting high. I'm going to start smoking.
• 25:08
  Right. Was this right after you get
• 25:09
  divorced? Yeah.
• 25:10
  OK, but you're still with God, right?
• 25:12
  Yeah, I'm still with God, but you know, you know, God all the
• 25:16
  way up there and I'm all the way down here and.
• 25:18
  If you're serving him trying to earn his approval like you tried
• 25:22
  to earn your parents approval approval, then.
• 25:24
  So here I am, and I start smoking cigarettes.
• 25:27
  Then I go to my brother, my little brother's house, the baby
• 25:30
  of the family, and they're getting high.
• 25:32
  And I'm like, I could do that, I'm fine, you know, not so much.
• 25:37
  Not so. It was like getting on the
• 25:39
  bicycle that I hadn't ridden for 12 years and just going.
• 25:43
  You know, so it just. Came right back.
• 25:45
  You opened Pandora's box. I did.
• 25:48
  I did. And so I was back.
• 25:52
  It wasn't. It wasn't as rampant because I
• 25:55
  also had children and so you know what I'm saying?
• 25:58
  But I would go in the bathroom and get high while the kids were
• 26:02
  home, you know what I'm saying? And things like that.
• 26:04
  You're trying to be closeted. And kids are not dumb.
• 26:10
  They're not dumb. I don't know that they knew I
• 26:12
  was getting high, but there is a spiritual realm and they were
• 26:20
  going to a very spiritual Christian School.
• 26:24
  So I do believe that in the spirit realm they knew something
• 26:28
  was off with their mom. You know what I'm saying?
• 26:31
  And so they began to rebel and act out.
• 26:37
  And OK, I factor in the divorce 100% on that because you can't,
• 26:43
  you cannot deny what God puts together.
• 26:47
  And we tear apart. Even though my my ex-husband and
• 26:49
  I were not equally yoked. He did not know me as the
• 26:55
  Christian that I was because we fell back into the Greek
• 26:58
  Orthodox. Right, so you did, you played
• 27:00
  the part of the Greek Orthodox. Why was the?
• 27:02
  Submissive wife to a fault, Extremely submissive.
• 27:06
  I didn't have a voice in my marriage, and so having the two
• 27:10
  kids and then divorcing and having my youngest look at us
• 27:16
  and go, well, who's going to fix my bicycle tire?
• 27:19
  Oh, you don't have a dad anymore around?
• 27:20
  Yeah. You know, and it was heart
• 27:24
  wrenching to see it, but not enough for me to stay there, you
• 27:29
  know, because of all the trauma that had gone in my marriage.
• 27:32
  I have a. Question about the marriage
• 27:33
  thing. Would you say that because in
• 27:38
  your faith, your faith journey, you couldn't be authentically
• 27:41
  you in your marriage, were you still like this closeted, I
• 27:45
  don't know, charismatic or something?
• 27:46
  I'm not sure if you'd call it a charismatic.
• 27:48
  Say probably, yeah, closeted. I prayed, I dedicated my
• 27:52
  children to Christ when I gave birth in my living room.
• 27:55
  You know myself and I still watched TBN but.
• 28:01
  You didn't get to go to that church.
• 28:02
  You're. Going to go.
• 28:03
  No, no I did not. All of that came back.
• 28:09
  It started to come back very slowly after after my mom passed
• 28:16
  away and that was in 2015. All right, so you're in this
• 28:21
  marriage and you're trying to make it work, but you're still,
• 28:25
  I feel like you might be living what your parents are doing is
• 28:28
  it's about image for a while there for 20.
• 28:31
  Percent. A facade.
• 28:32
  I had learned to put on a facade when I had the gas station.
• 28:36
  It was, don't you know who I am? I mean, the mayor knows me.
• 28:40
  The police know me. You don't know who I am.
• 28:43
  How can you not know who I am? You know, I thought I was all
• 28:46
  that in a bag of chips. I thank God.
• 28:50
  I thank God. I thank God almost every day
• 28:54
  that He took it all away from me.
• 28:56
  So you lost everything. I lost, I gambled everything
• 28:59
  away because after the pot smoking, after my divorce, one
• 29:06
  of my closest friends says hey, come down to the casino.
• 29:08
  OK, so first divorce cigarettes come back in.
• 29:12
  Pot came back. And then and then a friend
• 29:14
  invites you to a casino. And I hit the jackpot.
• 29:17
  Oh, playing slots, What was it? OK.
• 29:20
  And I hit the jackpot. Your first time.
• 29:23
  The first time, really, I said, oh, we're doing.
• 29:25
  Was this? Nichols Quarters What are you
• 29:27
  playing? $100 bill.
• 29:29
  You've got $100 bill in a slot. She gave it to me.
• 29:33
  She gave me the 100, I said. You're not even playing with
• 29:36
  your own money. She goes, I have no money.
• 29:38
  I I said to her, I have no money and she goes, that's fine.
• 29:41
  I just hit a jackpot. Come down here and I'm like,
• 29:43
  okay, so I go down. I put the 100 in, I hit a
• 29:47
  jackpot. So she gives you, you convert
• 29:49
  the 100 into what? I just stuck the whole thing in
• 29:52
  the slut. Oh, I.
• 29:52
  Didn't know you could do that. Oh, I thought you had to convert
• 29:55
  it to coins and then stick coins in.
• 29:57
  Ah, OK. You can stick $100 bill in a
• 29:59
  jackpot and then just sit there and start pulling.
• 30:01
  Oh yeah. And then how many times did you?
• 30:03
  Pull before you. I don't remember because all I
• 30:06
  remember was hearing the Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding and all that
• 30:09
  change, all that coins coming down and I thought, oh, it just
• 30:13
  opened a whole new life. For me, this is a new drug.
• 30:17
  This was like God, who you know, it was like he went out the
• 30:21
  window you. Didn't need gun.
• 30:22
  Oh no 'cause you could the only. Time I needed him was every time
• 30:24
  I was losing. Oh, OK, as long as you're
• 30:27
  winning, I don't need gun God. Please just give me a jackpot
• 30:31
  and I'll walk away. How many times I said that?
• 30:35
  So, all right, can you tell me? I don't know the first check but
• 30:38
  you won was the one that got you hooked.
• 30:40
  But how, how much money are we talking?
• 30:42
  Oh. OK, so when I went to treatment
• 30:45
  they told me that I gambled just shy of $1,000,000 in three
• 30:50
  years. Wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 30:52
  How much can you win on your first jackpot, let's say?
• 30:55
  Oh, you're talking about the jackpot winnings?
• 30:56
  That was 1800, OK. For all right, wow, Yeah, that's
• 31:01
  a nice return. Yeah, that's what I was
• 31:04
  thinking. That's what kept me going back.
• 31:06
  Yeah. But you see, the enemy also
• 31:08
  knows me and knows my way of thinking and knows my bouginess.
• 31:15
  And so if he was going to get me to go back, it was going to be I
• 31:18
  had to hit big, you know what I'm saying, with little.
• 31:23
  And so that's exactly what happened.
• 31:25
  And you would hit big with little and.
• 31:28
  Yeah, and it was love at first sight.
• 31:29
  I fell in love with the slot machine and I would go down
• 31:33
  every day, six days a week. I gave myself permission to
• 31:38
  withdraw 2000 dollars. From your bank account.
• 31:41
  From my business account. This is the gas station.
• 31:45
  The gas station. And I would go down with 500,
• 31:49
  five $100 bills, give myself permission to write checks up to
• 31:55
  2000. I wouldn't go over 2000.
• 31:58
  And I did this for just about six days a week for three years
• 32:04
  now. What happened was the gas
• 32:06
  station was depleted, so I started writing bad checks from
• 32:12
  closed accounts and I got a phone call and the phone call
• 32:17
  was if you don't stop doing this, you are going to go to
• 32:21
  jail. Who called you and said that?
• 32:23
  The banker and I said, what are you talking about?
• 32:27
  And she has no idea what I'm doing.
• 32:29
  Of course I knew what I was doing.
• 32:31
  And she goes, you need to stop. And she hung up the phone.
• 32:34
  This was a friend of mine that I I had my account in her bank
• 32:39
  scared me. It scared me enough to where I
• 32:41
  did stop. Then I realized, I mean, it was
• 32:45
  like a wave hit me and I realized I was in trouble.
• 32:49
  So you've been three years gambling every six days a week.
• 32:51
  So Sunday you didn't go? No, because you went to church.
• 32:54
  What? Sunday was my day off.
• 32:56
  I mean, I would love to say it was my Sabbath, but you know, it
• 32:59
  was my day off. Were you still going to church?
• 33:01
  I was still going to church. I was still going to church.
• 33:04
  Not as often, not every Sunday, but yeah, I was still going to
• 33:09
  church because I had to, you know, for my mom at that time.
• 33:14
  And so, you know, in, in when you say all this out loud, you,
• 33:21
  you realize what a whirlwind you lived.
• 33:25
  You know, I realize now as I'm talking about this, I could, I
• 33:30
  could have possibly said, you know, it wasn't that bad, but it
• 33:34
  was bad. Yeah, you said $1,000,000 in
• 33:37
  three years. In three years.
• 33:38
  That's how much you lost. That's how much I lost.
• 33:40
  And that was I didn't. Gain.
• 33:42
  Anything I gained I put back into.
• 33:44
  The casino wins. I mean, yeah, I mean, you could
• 33:47
  win for a little bit, but the house.
• 33:49
  And the sad thing is, is that a lot of people don't see gambling
• 33:53
  as an addiction. You know, it's just a form of,
• 33:56
  well, I'm just going and I'm playing for a little, you know,
• 33:59
  but it is. They see it as entertainment.
• 34:01
  Yeah, and I honestly at one point said to my son, if I don't
• 34:05
  wake up tomorrow, I'll be fine. I just because I didn't know how
• 34:09
  to get myself out of the financial mess that I had gotten
• 34:13
  myself into till I called my dad and I said, Daddy, I need you to
• 34:17
  bring, I need $25,000 to pay the rent for the gas station.
• 34:23
  He said I'll be right there. So he comes over, he goes so
• 34:27
  where are the keys to the to the shop and I give him the keys and
• 34:30
  he looked at me. He goes, you're done.
• 34:32
  I am not paying anything. We're giving this station back
• 34:35
  to Shell and you are finished. Because he knew you had a
• 34:39
  gambling addiction. He did not.
• 34:41
  Oh, he did not, but he knew I was stealing.
• 34:44
  From the business, yeah. Oh, he didn't know where the
• 34:45
  money was going. My brother suspected that I had
• 34:48
  a gambling problem. How?
• 34:50
  How in debt was the business at this point?
• 34:52
  The business was, it actually was holding its own because I
• 34:56
  had jacked my gas prices up at the time when everybody was like
• 35:00
  $3. Mine was 459 people paid that
• 35:03
  they did. Why?
• 35:06
  The drug dealers, they didn't care.
• 35:08
  They would just pull it like I'm always looking at the signs for
• 35:11
  gas. I'm not pulling in.
• 35:12
  If there's somebody for $3, I'm not paying 459.
• 35:16
  But they did and it just it. But it got to the point where I
• 35:21
  had depleted it and I couldn't even tell you how much in debt
• 35:25
  it was because at that point I just called my dad and said
• 35:28
  basically come bail me out was what I was.
• 35:30
  Saying so, he took the keys to the.
• 35:32
  Keys, my brother called and my brother said because he knew
• 35:37
  that I was gambling and he asked me if I wanted to go to
• 35:40
  treatment. He spoke to his sponsor.
• 35:44
  Oh, your brother was already in treatment.
• 35:46
  And his and his sponsor said if you don't give her this chance,
• 35:52
  you'll never know if she would have the opportunity to get it.
• 35:55
  That's a great sponsor. Wonderful sponsor.
• 35:58
  So my brother paid for me to go to treatment.
• 36:01
  He sent me to Minnesota, to a treatment Center for gamblers.
• 36:06
  Oh wow. Yep, and the treatment center
• 36:08
  was here and the casino was here.
• 36:11
  No next door. And it was just about next door
• 36:15
  and I thought to myself, I could walk to the casino.
• 36:18
  They'll never know I'm gone. But something inside of me
• 36:22
  stopped it. It stopped it when I walked into
• 36:25
  that treatment center. I feel like my entire life
• 36:28
  changed. So, OK, how long ago was that?
• 36:32
  That was in 2008. OK.
• 36:34
  And your brother sponsored now he was, he never got into
• 36:37
  gambling, did he? No, no, no, He was.
• 36:40
  He was alcohol. OK, yeah, but he gets into
• 36:42
  recovery and then he. Gets it?
• 36:44
  Yeah. And he had many, many years.
• 36:45
  He's he's got more years than I do, by a long shot.
• 36:48
  Of being clean. OK, good.
• 36:51
  So, yeah, and because of my brother's faithfulness to the
• 36:56
  program, I was able to rekindle my relationship with God in that
• 37:04
  treatment center because when you're in treatment, they're
• 37:07
  they have you work through the steps well.
• 37:09
  And, and by the way, the steps were based on Aren't they
• 37:12
  Biblical 100? Percent.
• 37:14
  Right. I mean, people don't always know
• 37:15
  that. They think a A is just a secular
• 37:17
  program. It was a guy named Bill who
• 37:20
  started. It Bill and Bob.
• 37:22
  And he wrote these steps, and they're based on.
• 37:25
  They are based on pure biblical principles.
• 37:30
  But they have things like a higher power like.
• 37:33
  So they're inviting everyone. Right.
• 37:35
  So that's why they do it that way.
• 37:37
  They don't say God. No, Well, no, they do actually.
• 37:40
  God is used it throughout Narcotics Anonymous, Alcoholics
• 37:43
  Anonymous, the God of your understanding, you know, yeah,
• 37:48
  God is used a lot. But they tend to say higher
• 37:53
  power because we want, we want everyone to come into the
• 37:57
  program. And then what God does with
• 38:00
  that, that's his business. OK, so if I'm of a different
• 38:05
  faith, I'm not of the Christian faith which follows the Bible.
• 38:08
  If I'm of a different faith, I can still go to this program for
• 38:11
  recovery and it would be the God of my understanding, my other
• 38:15
  God. And so that's how they made it
• 38:17
  inclusive. That's it.
• 38:18
  OK, they made it inclusive and we I as a sponsor will love my
• 38:23
  girls where they are. At your girls are the are the
• 38:26
  sponsors women you're sponsoring meaning?
• 38:28
  You're I call them my girls. No, but they're like you're I
• 38:33
  mean, I don't know. It's so I'm so I'm just gonna, I
• 38:35
  might sound really ignorant here, but like, are you kind of
• 38:37
  disciple ING them? I would say mentoring.
• 38:41
  So sponsorship is they want what I have.
• 38:45
  Which is. Which is for the most part
• 38:49
  there. What I've been told that they
• 38:52
  see in me is a calmness, A consistency A and how I
• 38:59
  interpret that is Jesus. What they see is the unseen
• 39:03
  right? And and they want that for their
• 39:05
  lives. And they also want to be free of
• 39:07
  whatever their addiction. Is yes, because listen, the
• 39:10
  disease, the disease of addiction is not what we pick
• 39:15
  up. It's the why behind the what.
• 39:19
  OK, say that again differently. The disease of addiction.
• 39:23
  Is not the the what you pick up? For example, my gambling that
• 39:27
  was a symptom that I've got a problem.
• 39:29
  Right. That's the symptom.
• 39:30
  That's the surface. Now the why do I have that
• 39:34
  problem is what drove me to. Gamble.
• 39:38
  The gambling. So the underlying issue of any
• 39:42
  addiction is why? Why we do it, why we're doing it
• 39:47
  right. So for me, I wasn't good enough.
• 39:49
  I didn't meet everybody's standard.
• 39:51
  I always wanted to be perfect and so on.
• 39:53
  And so this made me feel like I was accepted, loved and wanted.
• 39:58
  And maybe a winner. Yeah, and maybe a winner.
• 40:01
  When when you do win. Yeah.
• 40:03
  And immediately lose after that. But yeah, so that is that is how
• 40:09
  the best way I know to describe the disease.
• 40:12
  I do not speak Christianese to any of my sponsees unless they
• 40:19
  speak the same language. Right, So you're, you're open to
• 40:23
  having us being a sponsor to someone who may not share your
• 40:26
  faith because you're trying to help them get free.
• 40:29
  Do people choose you as a sponsor?
• 40:31
  How does that work? Or do you come to a meeting and
• 40:33
  they say you you need? Why I've had girls, after I
• 40:37
  share in a meeting, come up to me and ask me if I would sponsor
• 40:40
  them. Then I've had several girls come
• 40:43
  up to me just because of the way I look like my my demeanor in
• 40:48
  the meeting. I haven't said a word and
• 40:50
  they're like, there's just something about.
• 40:52
  You and so they say, Will you sponsor me?
• 40:54
  And when you say girls, I'm assuming everybody's adults.
• 40:57
  They're all adults. Yes, they're all adults now.
• 41:01
  In 1997, I gave birth to a little girl who God took after
• 41:07
  three hours and she went back home and I am forever grateful
• 41:12
  that He took her that quickly and I didn't have her for many
• 41:16
  years and then lost her. You know what?
• 41:18
  I'm saying you're grateful that you OK?
• 41:20
  Yeah. Does that make sense?
• 41:21
  Yeah. Because it's because the longer
• 41:23
  you've had this child, I would say the more painful it would be
• 41:26
  when to lose a child. Exactly.
• 41:29
  Right. So I thought you were going to
• 41:30
  say you're grateful you took her because of where you're at in
• 41:33
  your life or. Something no, no, no, no, no,
• 41:35
  no. And So what God has given me now
• 41:40
  the 28 women that I sponsor, those are like my daughters, 20.
• 41:44
  Eight. Yeah, no.
• 41:45
  Way. That's awesome, yeah.
• 41:47
  Do you meet with them? Do you meet with each one of?
• 41:49
  Them. Yes I do.
• 41:50
  I meet with them individually bi weekly and then once a month we
• 41:53
  do a family gathering. Which is all 28 and you.
• 41:55
  Yeah, well, it's 20. There's sixty.
• 41:58
  There are 60 women in this family.
• 42:01
  Which family? What are we talking?
• 42:02
  About I'm this, I sponsor these women, these women sponsor other
• 42:07
  women, these women. So it's like, yeah.
• 42:09
  And there's sixty of us. And so they don't all come
• 42:13
  because schedule conflict, but yeah.
• 42:16
  Whoever's invited, Yeah, OK, question.
• 42:18
  Are all these women and let's just stick with the ones you're
• 42:21
  sponsoring, Are they all in the same addiction?
• 42:23
  Is it is it gambling or is it alcohol?
• 42:26
  What are we talking? Most of it, most of it is drugs.
• 42:29
  Oh, OK. Is that narcotics and.
• 42:31
  Narcotics, and that's the program that I work and I work
• 42:36
  it because it's all inclusive. So it it it deals with the core
• 42:43
  of the addiction, but it doesn't tell you, though it is
• 42:47
  predominantly for narcotics. As a gambler, I also did smoke
• 42:53
  pot, you know what I'm saying? So it's just an all inclusive,
• 42:57
  it could be your eating problem, it could be your, you know,
• 43:00
  overeating, your eating disorders, whatever it is that
• 43:04
  you've got gambling. OK, so wait, I'm most familiar
• 43:08
  with Alcoholics Anonymous because that's probably the most
• 43:10
  famous. OK, so there's Alcoholics
• 43:12
  Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous. You went to you went to a
• 43:16
  gambling, a place for gamblers. So Gamblers Anonymous.
• 43:19
  Yeah. So will there be Gamblers
• 43:20
  Anonymous meanings? Yes, there are.
• 43:22
  Right. And you can find a A meetings.
• 43:24
  You can find NA meetings OA overeaters.
• 43:27
  Overeaters Anonymous. You can go find.
• 43:30
  Yeah, OK, OK. They are all accessible.
• 43:33
  They are all accessible. And you know, thanks to Google,
• 43:36
  all you gotta do is Google it and it'll bring it up OK.
• 43:39
  And I did go to Gamblers Anonymous, but down here it's
• 43:45
  very different than it is up north.
• 43:47
  And when I was going, they were a lot of older gentlemen from up
• 43:53
  north, and they were talking about the Yonkers racetrack and
• 43:57
  yeah, and I just couldn't. There were more.
• 44:00
  It was predominantly more men than it was women.
• 44:05
  And so I just wasn't getting what I needed.
• 44:08
  But when I walked into Narcotics Anonymous in a meeting at
• 44:12
  Narcotics Anonymous, there was something that I thought, you
• 44:15
  know what? I I fit here.
• 44:18
  I fit here. And so I've I've been working
• 44:23
  Narcotics Anonymous since 2008. Working at me, working the steps
• 44:28
  right so you do. Working the program so I have
• 44:32
  done. There's a workbook that we go
• 44:35
  through. I know there's 12 steps.
• 44:37
  I know the first ones about being admitting you're
• 44:39
  powerless. Yes, and your life becomes very.
• 44:42
  Unmanageable, right? OK, I know some of the steps.
• 44:45
  And so there's a format that we work through in Narcotics
• 44:49
  Anonymous that that for me has was what got it was the tool
• 44:58
  that God used to grow me into the woman I am today.
• 45:02
  Not the the the steps with the tool that God used to grow.
• 45:05
  OK, I like that. OK, I have questions for you.
• 45:11
  What would you say to someone who who would challenge you in
• 45:15
  terms of because I know I know some Christians who are anti
• 45:19
  recovery because when they say, Oh, you have to stay in those
• 45:22
  meetings like you have to go with the rest of your life.
• 45:24
  You know, I like once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.
• 45:27
  And so there are some parts of Christian who who have a hard
• 45:31
  time with that. You know, how would you respond
• 45:34
  to that? I would respond, as I do many
• 45:38
  times, even to my. Girls, So you've heard this?
• 45:42
  Yeah. Yes.
• 45:42
  Narcotics, Any anonymous room is there to help you become who you
• 45:50
  are meant to be. OK, so you work the 12 steps.
• 45:53
  It's a guide. It gives you the life that you
• 45:57
  have today as a as a recovering alcoholic or recovering addict,
• 46:02
  right? It gives you that life.
• 46:05
  It does not have to be your life.
• 46:08
  You don't have to go to meetings so.
• 46:10
  It's a mechanism, yes. For because freedom, Yes.
• 46:14
  Because when you work step one, the spiritual principle is
• 46:19
  honesty. OK?
• 46:21
  If you don't grasp that the rest of the steps are not going,
• 46:26
  you're you're going to falter at some point.
• 46:30
  When I when it says honesty, that's the spiritual principle.
• 46:34
  It means you give that penny back to the customer that left
• 46:39
  it on the counter unintentionally.
• 46:42
  You tell yourself you look beautiful today because you see
• 46:47
  yourself in the mirror. The honesty isn't every aspect
• 46:51
  because when God is honest with us, he doesn't sugarcoat it.
• 46:56
  It's dry cut and dry. You know what I'm saying?
• 47:00
  So that's that's working step one.
• 47:02
  OK, so can I can I ask, would it be safe to say there can be no
• 47:07
  recovery without honesty? Yeah, there there would be.
• 47:11
  You'd still be living dirty. Dirty meaning meaning.
• 47:15
  Not spiritually clean. OK, you're you're not.
• 47:19
  OK, so you have to have those. That makes sense to me, the
• 47:21
  first step. So then the second step is we
• 47:25
  come to believe that a power greater than ourselves can
• 47:28
  restore us to sanity. Well, if I'm not getting honest
• 47:32
  with the first step, OK, there's no way I'm going to believe that
• 47:36
  there's something greater than me, OK?
• 47:39
  Because up until now, I was the greatest thing.
• 47:41
  Right. I'm God, I make the decisions.
• 47:43
  I ran my life and I had and I was having fun doing it.
• 47:46
  You know what I'm saying? But that's the the second
• 47:52
  spiritual principle is hope. Oh OK, good, we're so now
• 47:56
  sanity. Now I'm honest and now I've.
• 47:59
  Got a hope that's so good. I've got a.
• 48:01
  Hope because I'm I'm being truthful and the truth in
• 48:05
  Scripture says we'll set you free.
• 48:07
  There's that hope, Jesus, I'm hanging on to that hope.
• 48:11
  So now that hope. There's a scripture you're just
• 48:14
  reminded me of. The Bible says that hope
• 48:17
  deferred makes the heart sick. Yeah, yeah.
• 48:22
  We have to have hope. We have to we have to and so the
• 48:26
  third step is, you know, having the willingness, I'm not might
• 48:31
  not quote it 100% to turn our will and our our lives over to a
• 48:35
  power to the God of our understanding.
• 48:39
  I think it goes. So that's faith.
• 48:43
  I would also think it's surrender.
• 48:45
  It it is surrender. But yes, there are more than one
• 48:49
  spiritual principles. But OK.
• 48:51
  So but it's. Like I'm trusting something
• 48:52
  outside of myself. That's it, right?
• 48:54
  So now, because I have the hope that there's a power greater
• 48:58
  than I am now, I'm going to trust that power.
• 49:01
  I'm going to put my faith in that power.
• 49:03
  OK, OK. The fourth step is divulging
• 49:07
  your life story, basically. Yeah, there's moral inventory
• 49:10
  taking a more a moral inventory, yes, just taking the more.
• 49:15
  Oh gosh, I wish I had steps in front of me because now I'm
• 49:17
  frozen. But it's giving a fearless and
• 49:21
  moral inventory of yourself and so or taking a moral and
• 49:26
  inventory of yourself. So anyways, so now that
• 49:30
  spiritual principle is courage, because now I have the courage
• 49:35
  to take a look at what I've done.
• 49:37
  Oh wow, that's Rich. OK, that makes so much sense to.
• 49:40
  Me now, I'm now. This was my change when I was in
• 49:43
  treatment. Tell me the 5th step is where I
• 49:46
  tell you and God what I've done. And make amends, isn't it?
• 49:50
  No. That's not we're not there yet.
• 49:52
  It's a Step 5, OK. So now I'm telling you and and
• 49:56
  God what I have done right basically like confession, that
• 50:00
  spiritual principle is integrity because now I am willing to
• 50:06
  become transparent and that integrity, I'm closing the door
• 50:12
  to my past and I'm walking in truth and integrity.
• 50:20
  And when I the man I told my story to.
• 50:25
  When you were. When I was in treatment was
• 50:28
  someone from a A. He wasn't even a pastor.
• 50:31
  Someone's been a that man. Verbatim repeated everything
• 50:35
  back to me. When I say verbatim, he didn't
• 50:39
  miss a beat. I was bawling.
• 50:42
  I knew, yeah, at that moment that God had never left me.
• 50:47
  What do you mean? He repeated like.
• 50:48
  So I told him my story. And he tells it back.
• 50:51
  To me and he told it back to. Me like he so he heard it yes,
• 50:55
  but I mean. I feel like it was God sitting
• 50:58
  right across from me and just repeating it all back to me.
• 51:01
  Like you are seen, you are heard, and I still love you.
• 51:09
  So that was a very powerful moment.
• 51:11
  Oh my gosh, when I walked out of that room my peers looked at me
• 51:16
  and said what happened? You are literally glowing.
• 51:21
  I had no idea. I just had to go sit and process
• 51:24
  what just happened. And you said it wasn't a pastor,
• 51:26
  so it didn't even need to be a pastor.
• 51:28
  Nope. We were in the Chapel and it was
• 51:31
  this man and myself and God and I, I'm telling you it that was
• 51:38
  when everything changed. That was when I knew there was
• 51:42
  no way but up for me. I knew that I was taken from the
• 51:46
  dereliction that I lived and God was going to do something.
• 51:50
  I didn't know what, I didn't know what, and I still had the
• 51:53
  grandiose because I was thinking I was going to be AGM of the
• 51:56
  Ritz Carlton and people were going to be bowing down to me.
• 52:00
  You know, that was my thought process before leaving
• 52:03
  treatment. I was very wrong, So.
• 52:08
  But anyway, so that's Step 5, right?
• 52:10
  Real quick on that step. Is that normal?
• 52:12
  That what it when you make that when you unpack your story to
• 52:16
  somebody, they write they they say it back to.
• 52:18
  You you know, I don't know for the most part it it did with him
• 52:23
  and me right. And I think that that was God
• 52:26
  purpose. Sure.
• 52:28
  I don't know how other sponsors, I don't repeat their story back.
• 52:32
  To them, I was wondering in case you have 28 people that you
• 52:34
  sponsor. I don't, I do not.
• 52:36
  There is, our process is a little different, but that was
• 52:39
  that process. That you needed in that moment,
• 52:41
  though God knew what you said A. 100% So then in step 6, we are
• 52:48
  ready and we now start looking at our character defects, OK.
• 52:54
  And the spiritual principle behind that is the willingness,
• 53:00
  the willingness to see who we can become when we're not
• 53:07
  working. These principles back here, when
• 53:10
  we're not being honest, when we don't have the.
• 53:13
  Faith. Seeing who you can become
• 53:16
  because these are now my character defects.
• 53:18
  It's. Like seeing your depravity in
• 53:20
  Christian terms. So we're seeing this, right?
• 53:23
  And now that's that spiritual principle we have.
• 53:27
  The willingness now to see it. The next is being ready to have
• 53:34
  them all removed. That's step 7.
• 53:37
  OK, yeah, that you can't. OK, so.
• 53:39
  You So now we're ready to have them removed.
• 53:42
  They're not going to be removed like this.
• 53:44
  I know, that would be nice, huh? Yeah, so nice.
• 53:47
  But when they flare up, we call out to God and that's literally
• 53:53
  what we're supposed to. We are asking God to humbly
• 53:56
  remove our shortcomings. That's what the step is.
• 53:59
  Step 7 is asking God to humbly remove our shortcomings.
• 54:04
  So when I am, you're cutting me off and I'm ready to or I start
• 54:10
  to yell at you. In traffic or something traffic?
• 54:15
  And I'm cursing you out. I'm like, God forgive me,
• 54:18
  please, please remove this from me.
• 54:20
  I don't want to be like this. I'm not portraying you.
• 54:22
  You know what I'm saying? OK, I struggle with this one
• 54:25
  because I mean, not so much because of traffic.
• 54:29
  I don't like being in traffic, but but I'm talking about like
• 54:32
  it feels very passive. God, take this away from me and
• 54:36
  I feel like he I got to do the work.
• 54:39
  I mean, do you know what I'm saying?
• 54:40
  Yes, yes, I do understand what you're saying.
• 54:43
  To take everything away from me that I that is, that doesn't
• 54:46
  measure up to who he, what a Christian should be.
• 54:50
  I want to take it, God take it, but like, do I not have any
• 54:53
  responsibility? Are we or are we not tempted A.
• 54:59
  100% tempted, yes. Does he or does he not give us a
• 55:02
  way out? A. 100% First Corinthians 10/13
• 55:05
  you won't have a temptation that he makes a way of escape that
• 55:08
  you would be able to bear. Is when I'm crying out to him
• 55:11
  and asking him to take it away. The next time I go to scream
• 55:15
  he's going to remind me. Is this what Jesus would do?
• 55:21
  OK, so it's not a passive thing. Not a passive thing.
• 55:24
  OK. That's where the faith, all of
• 55:27
  these spiritual principles tie up.
• 55:29
  Yeah, they build on each other. They really do.
• 55:31
  Yeah, I see that. So now in step 8, when I'm
• 55:35
  making my list of those that I have to make an amends to.
• 55:38
  That's the step. 8 is amends. Step 8 is not the amends.
• 55:42
  Making the list. Making the list, that's all I'm
• 55:44
  doing in step eight. OK, OK, so now that's my
• 55:47
  brotherly love. Now I love you so much that.
• 55:51
  But I know I've wronged you. I want to come and I want to say
• 55:56
  hey, yeah, I'm sorry, but this is how I'm living my life today.
• 56:03
  I it won't be in words. It will be in my actions.
• 56:05
  Let's go Yes. OK, I always say don't look at
• 56:11
  what I say, look at what I do. Let my let my actions speak to
• 56:17
  you, not my words. Oh yeah, you know, And so that's
• 56:20
  step 8. So that's that's the brotherly
• 56:22
  love because. Talk is.
• 56:24
  Cheap. Yes it is.
• 56:26
  Yes it is. So now in step 9, all these
• 56:30
  people that I've put on my list, that's where I'm making the
• 56:32
  amends. This takes a.
• 56:34
  While oh it does, it does. I mean in a A they work them a
• 56:39
  little different than we do in NA, but in NA because the addict
• 56:49
  will go to any lengths to get their next drug.
• 56:53
  In NA. In NA they will go.
• 56:56
  The addict that does that shoots heroin for example.
• 57:01
  Or, you know, the the crack, whatever.
• 57:04
  They might steal to pay for their drug addiction, right?
• 57:06
  Yeah. Amongst other horrible, you
• 57:09
  know, things that they will do. And the alcoholic that is going
• 57:14
  for a drink may not falter into such low places.
• 57:19
  You see what I'm saying? So the NA is more.
• 57:23
  Severe, I'd say. Yeah, well, they're more.
• 57:26
  It's OK. So the NA steps are more in
• 57:29
  depth. They're digging deeper.
• 57:31
  They're digging a lot deeper. AA is there.
• 57:36
  If it wasn't for AA, there would be no NA-100.
• 57:39
  Percent I can see. That you know what I'm saying.
• 57:41
  It was. It was, wasn't it?
• 57:42
  The thing the the original, whatever.
• 57:45
  But the OG, yeah, for real. But the NA, the NA steps just go
• 57:50
  a step further. They're a little deeper, so they
• 57:53
  do take longer. And so now you're making your
• 57:57
  amends, which is the self-discipline.
• 58:00
  This is now where you are disciplining, practicing what
• 58:05
  you're saying. You know I'm coming to you.
• 58:07
  Listen, I stole X amount of dollars, I want to pay it back.
• 58:13
  Oh, OK, that's the immense. It's not just telling you I did
• 58:16
  it, but it's I'm going to make it right.
• 58:17
  Right, I'm going to make it right type thing.
• 58:20
  And then and then after that comes Step 10.
• 58:23
  Now step 10 is, is we're taking an inventory of ourselves on a
• 58:28
  daily basis. I thought you did an inventory.
• 58:31
  That was OK. So now how am I living my life?
• 58:34
  How was my day today? How was my?
• 58:37
  Did I hurt someone? Do I need to quickly call and
• 58:41
  say I'm sorry? Shouldn't you know you're
• 58:43
  looking at yourself in the moment, in the moment, and
• 58:47
  you're persevering through your day knowing that?
• 58:50
  And perseverance is that spiritual principle.
• 58:54
  Of the. 10th, 10th step, perseverance.
• 58:57
  And then the 11th step is now you have having cut.
• 59:03
  Oh, like I wish I had the steps in front of me.
• 59:05
  For some reason I'm drawing a blank.
• 59:07
  But anyways, it's a God awareness.
• 59:09
  The 11th step is where we actually become aware of how God
• 59:16
  is working in our lives. And it it for me, it was the
• 59:24
  period at the end of the sentence.
• 59:27
  This was where the God, you know, God was present.
• 59:34
  He was present through all of my steps.
• 59:36
  But this was like, OK, now I can pray to my God and really honor
• 59:43
  and be intentional and just that God awareness, you know that he
• 59:48
  is really there. Like I knew he was there, but
• 59:52
  this brought it even closer. OK, OK, the 12th step, all these
• 59:58
  steps, now that I've worked, all these principles that I've
• 1:00:01
  gained. Prepared me for service.
• 1:00:04
  OK, hold on real quick. How long would you say it takes
• 1:00:07
  to go from 1:00 to? It took me 5 years.
• 1:00:10
  What it? Took me 5 years.
• 1:00:13
  Like you'll stay on step one for you could stay there for three
• 1:00:15
  months or a year. If that is your journey, then
• 1:00:19
  that is your journey. Oh, so OK, I didn't realize.
• 1:00:22
  Firm believer. I'm a firm believer.
• 1:00:24
  I know that many people may not agree with me, but I'm a firm
• 1:00:28
  believer that this is your journey.
• 1:00:33
  If you are going to neglect your step work, you will pay the
• 1:00:38
  consequences that go along with that.
• 1:00:41
  God never forced me to do anything, He just put it black
• 1:00:47
  and white. If you believe you will go to
• 1:00:51
  heaven, if you don't then you won't.
• 1:00:56
  That's the only sin that will keep me from Him is not
• 1:01:00
  believing in his Son, not believing that he came down to
• 1:01:03
  die for me. Right to trust Christ as your
• 1:01:05
  Savior. That He is my Lord and my
• 1:01:08
  Savior, right? OK.
• 1:01:11
  And so I take how God has been with me and apply it to the
• 1:01:17
  girls. I will not force them.
• 1:01:19
  I will not tell if they ask me. Can you give me a time limit you
• 1:01:24
  know? When I should?
• 1:01:26
  Be done, I'll do it, but if they don't, I let them run their
• 1:01:32
  course. So, so somebody might do them in
• 1:01:35
  a year, somebody might do them in three, somebody might do them
• 1:01:37
  in six months. Is that what you're saying?
• 1:01:39
  Like everybody's journey is. Different.
• 1:01:42
  Everybody's journey is different.
• 1:01:43
  That makes so much sense to me. And and you know, throughout
• 1:01:47
  that how I feel I keep them or we stay in line with the program
• 1:01:55
  is be having the intimate moments like we are now.
• 1:02:00
  Conversation going deeper. And you know, we meet for
• 1:02:03
  coffee. What's going on?
• 1:02:05
  How has you know? How have you been?
• 1:02:08
  How is your mother? How how are the kids like?
• 1:02:11
  I include everything. And then in the end is how are
• 1:02:14
  you doing? Is there anything you want to
• 1:02:17
  bring up? You know, how can I support you?
• 1:02:21
  I will pray for them. This sounds like accountability.
• 1:02:23
  What we In Christian circles we call it accountability.
• 1:02:26
  Yes, yes, I will pray for them and I will shoot them a little
• 1:02:30
  text. I just want you to know I'm
• 1:02:31
  praying for you today. Do you have anything in
• 1:02:34
  particular that you would like prayer for?
• 1:02:36
  OK, wow, it's beautiful. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:02:38
  I mean, these things are important and they are the
• 1:02:42
  foundation. If I can build a foundation for
• 1:02:46
  them to grow off of, if I can just give him that little bit of
• 1:02:50
  Jesus, you know, through my actions.
• 1:02:53
  Somebody to trust and somebody who's trustworthy.
• 1:02:57
  And anything they tell me and I always tell them, and especially
• 1:03:00
  if they have significant others and a lot of times their
• 1:03:03
  significant others would like to, you know, they will come to
• 1:03:06
  me. The the the significant when I
• 1:03:09
  was a boyfriend. And I will always tell my girls,
• 1:03:13
  if your significant other comes to me, don't ask me what he has
• 1:03:18
  said because I'm not going to tell you why would.
• 1:03:20
  The spouse or the boyfriend come to see you.
• 1:03:22
  What? What do they want If?
• 1:03:23
  There's an issue that they don't know how to handle.
• 1:03:29
  But not I will never talk about my sponsee, OK, It will be how
• 1:03:34
  can I work through this? OK, how can you, you know, can
• 1:03:39
  you shed some light and help me see this through the right eyes?
• 1:03:45
  So now I'm ministering to them about them.
• 1:03:50
  Does that make sense? Right.
• 1:03:51
  But you're not their sponsor, so they're just coming for some
• 1:03:53
  kind of adjunct or something. Are they in recovery also?
• 1:03:57
  Or most of them are, some of them are not.
• 1:03:59
  OK. So would somebody who's not in
• 1:04:01
  recovery want to talk to you about?
• 1:04:03
  OK. It's amazing how God has used
• 1:04:08
  and I never realized this was a ministry.
• 1:04:11
  Oh, it sounds like 1. I I never somebody said that to
• 1:04:15
  me recently like this year. Said what?
• 1:04:18
  Like, wow. This is that's your ministry.
• 1:04:21
  And I'm like, oh, OK, yeah, maybe it is.
• 1:04:26
  And I was like, wow, Lord, I have a ministry.
• 1:04:29
  And I was so excited, you know? That's so great.
• 1:04:32
  I mean, yeah, because you're helping pull people out of the
• 1:04:35
  pit. That's it.
• 1:04:37
  And and you know what? I, I would not be able to do it
• 1:04:40
  if I wasn't his hands and feet, I wouldn't be able to do it.
• 1:04:46
  He guides every step. He guides every step.
• 1:04:50
  I do many, many times and you'll hear some of my sponsee say you
• 1:04:56
  never take credit for what you do and you always credit God.
• 1:05:00
  Oh, they get frustrated by that. Yeah.
• 1:05:01
  And I'm like, because that is the truth.
• 1:05:04
  That is the. Truth am I without God?
• 1:05:06
  Right. I, I would not be able to do
• 1:05:09
  this without him. And he is my foundation.
• 1:05:13
  This family has been built because of the love that he has
• 1:05:17
  given me the and I'm able to pour it out to you.
• 1:05:22
  Now the family is the the people you're ministering to plus the
• 1:05:25
  ones they're ministering to, yes.
• 1:05:26
  So that's. All the whole 60 of them,
• 1:05:28
  that's, you know, come on. Yeah.
• 1:05:30
  It's amazing. It's amazing what what God has
• 1:05:33
  done with one little granule of sand in the sea, right?
• 1:05:41
  Because that's how I see myself. And he's pulled it up and
• 1:05:46
  created this. He's created.
• 1:05:48
  I would, if you would have said that this would be my life years
• 1:05:51
  ago, I would have laughed at you.
• 1:05:53
  I would have laughed at you, literally laughed at you.
• 1:05:57
  And yet today, it's OK if you don't like me.
• 1:06:02
  It's OK if you laugh at me. OK, yeah, going back to I'm
• 1:06:07
  never good enough. Like where's that now?
• 1:06:11
  I am enough right in him, right only in the name of Jesus,
• 1:06:16
  because you are 100% right. I will never be good enough.
• 1:06:20
  I by myself, right, will never be good enough.
• 1:06:23
  Our righteousness is filthy rags.
• 1:06:25
  But in Christ I am everything, I am nothing, and He is
• 1:06:31
  everything. And that's what shows I always
• 1:06:34
  pray. Please do not let them see me,
• 1:06:37
  let them see you. Christ in you the hope of glory.
• 1:06:41
  Just you know what? Even if they don't believe, let
• 1:06:45
  them feel something. Even if they don't know what
• 1:06:48
  that is. Because you will know what that
• 1:06:51
  is. That will be your love, your
• 1:06:53
  embrace, your comfort. They won't.
• 1:06:56
  They may not know in that moment, but the day will come
• 1:07:02
  because my girls know that He is my Lord and Savior and they're
• 1:07:06
  still there. If I've got 28 girls, I could
• 1:07:09
  honestly say maybe 5 are believers and the rest are not.
• 1:07:14
  That is a ministry right there. So where God is taking it is
• 1:07:18
  none of my business. All I know is what He tells me
• 1:07:21
  to. Do let's go.
• 1:07:23
  What is step 12? Because because I stopped you
• 1:07:25
  before, you're about to say 12. Is the grand this graduation
• 1:07:29
  right? That is service.
• 1:07:33
  That is. Now you are ready to take all
• 1:07:36
  these spiritual principles and work them in all of your
• 1:07:40
  affairs. So that's what you're doing.
• 1:07:41
  That's that's so you're on Step 12.
• 1:07:43
  You've been on Step 12 for a long time.
• 1:07:45
  Yeah. But you still go back to them I
• 1:07:47
  guess. You can.
• 1:07:48
  I have, I have, I've gone back through them several times, you
• 1:07:52
  know, because there are different areas in my life that
• 1:07:54
  I don't get it, you know, I don't get it.
• 1:07:58
  God, what am I doing? You know?
• 1:07:59
  And so this, to me, is a tool that got me from the dereliction
• 1:08:05
  that I lived in here to where I am today, where I can hear a man
• 1:08:14
  say, I was just talking about you.
• 1:08:16
  I'm like, OK, was it good? Yeah.
• 1:08:19
  I was just telling someone that if I were ever to have a female
• 1:08:22
  sponsor, it would be you. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:08:26
  And these are people that I don't know.
• 1:08:29
  And I, I know them as acquaintances, right?
• 1:08:33
  But it's but what God is, is showing through me, you know
• 1:08:38
  what I'm saying? Is you're radiating something
• 1:08:40
  that they're drawn to? They're attracted to what you
• 1:08:42
  are giving off. And that is all I've wanted.
• 1:08:45
  I prayed and I said, Lord, as I get older, make me wise like
• 1:08:51
  Isaiah, you know, give me wisdom like Solomon and let people see
• 1:08:57
  that. And not too long ago, one of my
• 1:09:02
  spons, he says, and, and here you are and here you are, you
• 1:09:07
  know, but it's not me. It's not me.
• 1:09:11
  It's I would love to take the credit because I do.
• 1:09:14
  I love being listen, there are two things about me.
• 1:09:17
  I'm bougie and I love being the center of attention.
• 1:09:20
  That's it. But God knows this.
• 1:09:23
  God knows this, and if I can be bougie and the center of
• 1:09:28
  attention for His glory, I'm going to do it.
• 1:09:31
  You know what I'm saying? That's.
• 1:09:32
  So good. Because there aren't only those
• 1:09:38
  that are here, there are also those that are here.
• 1:09:41
  And those that are here are, it's harder to get them to
• 1:09:46
  believe in our father. It's easier to get a camel to go
• 1:09:51
  through the eye of a needle, right?
• 1:09:53
  They are really concerning to me.
• 1:09:56
  Who are these people? These are the very wealthy, the
• 1:09:59
  very, you know, those. They they kind of they're
• 1:10:02
  bougie. They think they're better.
• 1:10:04
  And and and it's not all people, but the ones that are, I want
• 1:10:09
  them to know Christ. Yeah, because when you have
• 1:10:11
  everything you need, you don't feel like you like, why do I
• 1:10:14
  need God like, I mean. I can pay my way through it.
• 1:10:18
  Right. And it feels like so often we
• 1:10:23
  come to God through hardship and pain and, and desperation more
• 1:10:26
  than we do through abundance. You know, if things are going
• 1:10:29
  great, I go, oh, I need God. You know, it's usually we come
• 1:10:32
  to the end of our rope and then we go, OK, I need, I need
• 1:10:36
  something. I need my higher power.
• 1:10:38
  That's it. And and you know, he is so vital
• 1:10:42
  and he loves so well. God loves so well.
• 1:10:47
  I don't know that we can even come close to loving the way he
• 1:10:52
  does because when you think of Paul and him blinding him,
• 1:10:58
  literally, you're not going to see this life that you had
• 1:11:02
  anymore. I'm taking it away from you and
• 1:11:05
  I'm going to give you new fresh eyes and a heart for me, that's
• 1:11:11
  going to be unstoppable. Unstoppable, you know, and to
• 1:11:17
  raise the 12 to love him so much and to die for him.
• 1:11:24
  Yeah, the the the disciples who died for their Lord.
• 1:11:28
  Yeah, and Daniel to pray unceasingly.
• 1:11:33
  And Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego.
• 1:11:36
  Weren't they in the fire? Yes, they were.
• 1:11:38
  And Jesus was right there with them.
• 1:11:42
  That was their fire. What's your fire?
• 1:11:46
  What's your fire? How can we invite Jesus to be in
• 1:11:52
  that fire, to love you and comfort you in that fire?
• 1:11:57
  That's what it's about. Come on.
• 1:11:59
  That's what 12 steps are about. That's what Bill and Bob wanted.
• 1:12:03
  It's OK that you drank. You did it.
• 1:12:07
  Yes, it's OK. There is a God that will love
• 1:12:12
  you even though you did that. Even though my son, my youngest,
• 1:12:19
  he was in the back seat. He was nine years old, seven
• 1:12:23
  years old. I don't even know.
• 1:12:25
  Mom, do you love me? And I'm driving now, right with
• 1:12:28
  all my heart, honey, I love you. What if I killed someone?
• 1:12:33
  I'm not like, Lord, am I racing a murderer and I'm like, I'm
• 1:12:37
  still going to love you, but I will not hide you.
• 1:12:43
  If that's something that you choose to do, you will have to
• 1:12:45
  pay the consequences. I mean, I just, I was like, wow,
• 1:12:50
  what a question to ask, You know, what a question to ask.
• 1:12:54
  But that was like the question I asked, if you don't love me,
• 1:13:00
  who's going to love me? You know what I'm saying?
• 1:13:05
  And he was seeking that unconditional will you love me
• 1:13:08
  no matter what? I will love you no matter what.
• 1:13:12
  But the consequences have to come, because that's what
• 1:13:15
  Scripture says. And God lets us experience
• 1:13:19
  consequences of. Absolutely he does.
• 1:13:21
  He will allow us to just do what we need to do to get where we
• 1:13:27
  need to get to get back to him, right?
• 1:13:29
  Yeah. We have free will.
• 1:13:31
  Boy, have I prayed. Why do we have free will?
• 1:13:34
  Fuck, What was wrong with you when you gave us free will?
• 1:13:38
  But he did. But he did and we botched it,
• 1:13:42
  you know, so it's, it's real important.
• 1:13:45
  And, and listen, I'm not, I would love to say that I spent
• 1:13:49
  so many hours with the Lord in the word.
• 1:13:51
  I don't, I want to, it's a desire of mine.
• 1:13:56
  But come 5:00 in the morning, I'm making all these reasons why
• 1:13:59
  I'm not getting up. You know, I know that it will
• 1:14:03
  happen. And I know that when I do like
• 1:14:06
  this morning, I love praying for people and I got up and I prayed
• 1:14:11
  for everyone on my list. And I just love doing that, you
• 1:14:16
  know, and getting into his word and, and journaling and I want
• 1:14:20
  to do everything all at once. I just have to learn how to
• 1:14:24
  manage my time, you know, So, but he is the foundation of my
• 1:14:32
  life. And what you see and what we've
• 1:14:35
  talked about is all because of him.
• 1:14:38
  It's all because of God. And it's all because Jesus in
• 1:14:44
  his prayer where he was sweating and dripping blood, said only if
• 1:14:51
  it's your will, Father. And it was his will for Jesus to
• 1:14:56
  be crucified, and he was. And because of that, you and I
• 1:15:02
  can talk today and give the hope that is behind that crucifixion.
• 1:15:09
  Oh yeah, the. Hope of eternity.
• 1:15:12
  The hope of knowing that yes, there is an enemy out there.
• 1:15:18
  Yes, we get attacked all the time, but God is bigger.
• 1:15:22
  Don't keep him small. Don't put God in a box.
• 1:15:27
  Pray big. Go boldly before His throne.
• 1:15:32
  Enter that room in in desperation.
• 1:15:35
  I'm here. This is what I need, you know
• 1:15:38
  What's your will? Let me align with that.
• 1:15:41
  That was my prayer this morning. Just align me with your will.
• 1:15:45
  Let my choices for the day be pleasing to you.
• 1:15:49
  How can you use me? And you know what?
• 1:15:52
  Sometimes I don't even know if he does use me, you know.
• 1:15:56
  But that miserable person in Publix, if I smile at them and
• 1:16:02
  they smile back, there you go. That was my deed for the day.
• 1:16:06
  Because they smiled, You could see them frowning, you know, and
• 1:16:10
  just trying to get through the day.
• 1:16:11
  And you smile at them, and they just smile back.
• 1:16:16
  Yep, sometimes it's so simple it doesn't have to be.
• 1:16:18
  That's it. Some big grand gesture.
• 1:16:21
  And that is, that is the God that we have in our lives.
• 1:16:28
  Yeah. That is, that is it.
• 1:16:31
  And I, I mean, I don't, he has made my life so simple because I
• 1:16:40
  wake up and I focus on him. I may not be in the word, I may
• 1:16:44
  not be sitting in my chair and reading the word that's, but my
• 1:16:48
  focus is on him. I talk to him all day long, all
• 1:16:52
  day long. And I honestly, my heart breaks
• 1:16:55
  for those that don't know him in that darkness.
• 1:16:59
  That's a dark place to be, especially in today's times.
• 1:17:04
  Because what they don't get is that if someone is in office,
• 1:17:10
  God has appointed them. And if God has appointed them,
• 1:17:13
  it is for his reasons. And if it's for his reasons, He
• 1:17:16
  will be glorified. He, he is sovereign.
• 1:17:21
  He allows and doesn't allow. And if he's allowing it, rest
• 1:17:26
  assured that you are going to gain something from it and he
• 1:17:31
  will be glorified in the end, even if we don't understand it.
• 1:17:36
  One of our pastors at our church, Journey Church, passed
• 1:17:40
  away. He was killed in a motorcycle
• 1:17:42
  accident. 39 years old. Yeah.
• 1:17:44
  Just happened last week. What?
• 1:17:47
  Devastating. Devastating.
• 1:17:50
  The last thing he did was for me was he hugged me.
• 1:17:54
  I felt so seen in that moment from him, such a wonderful young
• 1:17:58
  man. I don't understand why he had to
• 1:18:03
  die. But I don't have to understand
• 1:18:08
  because God will be glorified through that, just like Charlie
• 1:18:13
  Kirk, right? God is being glorified through
• 1:18:16
  that nothing is done. Chance and coincidence are two
• 1:18:21
  words that were developed and put in the dictionary.
• 1:18:24
  They do not belong anywhere near God because God is intentional
• 1:18:29
  and full of purpose. That's it.
• 1:18:33
  So what are the chances? I mean, that was my thought.
• 1:18:38
  What are the chances of me sitting here doing a podcast
• 1:18:42
  with you? Slim to none, really, you know,
• 1:18:47
  And yet here we are. Yeah, here we are.
• 1:18:50
  Hey, before we end, I want to ask you some rapid fire
• 1:18:54
  questions. So, all right, you ready?
• 1:18:57
  Yep. OK.
• 1:18:59
  What's a worship song you never skip?
• 1:19:02
  Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.
• 1:19:05
  What is it called? Forever.
• 1:19:08
  Holy Forever by Chris Tomlin. That song brings me to my knees.
• 1:19:13
  So good. OK, one word that describes your
• 1:19:17
  faith in this season. In this season, strong.
• 1:19:24
  Strong. Yeah, I I rely on and it's yeah,
• 1:19:33
  I guess it is my faith. It's mine, right?
• 1:19:35
  And it's how I believe. Yeah, strong, strong.
• 1:19:39
  Here we go. What's a mental health myth you
• 1:19:42
  want to erase? You are not identified by your
• 1:19:47
  illness. You are not identified by your
• 1:19:51
  illness. I am not an addict.
• 1:19:54
  I have a substance use disorder. I am not a schizophrenic.
• 1:20:01
  I have schizophrenia. There's a difference.
• 1:20:03
  So that's not your identity. That's it.
• 1:20:05
  It's not your identity. Wonderful.
• 1:20:08
  What's something you used to believe that you no longer
• 1:20:11
  believe? What is something that I used to
• 1:20:14
  believe that I no longer believe that I had to work to be better
• 1:20:24
  for God? I no longer believe that I
• 1:20:28
  believe he accepts me where I'm at and how I am.
• 1:20:33
  Yeah. Yes, that's good.
• 1:20:35
  Who is someone who deeply shaped your character?
• 1:20:39
  My mom, my mom, regardless of her thought process, she would
• 1:20:46
  always say when you do something and you do the right thing, you
• 1:20:51
  will see that God will bless you.
• 1:20:54
  And that really has shaped my character.
• 1:20:57
  Yeah, are are you an early bird or a night owl?
• 1:21:01
  Oh no, early bird, I am like at night.
• 1:21:05
  The lonely bird. All right, great.
• 1:21:07
  Here we go. What's 1 moment you felt God's
• 1:21:10
  presence the strongest? When I was in that room doing my
• 1:21:18
  fifth step with that man, I felt his presence the strongest.
• 1:21:22
  OK, here we go. What's one thing you know God is
• 1:21:26
  calling you to right now? The life that I have just
• 1:21:31
  helping women come out of where they were to where God wants
• 1:21:37
  them to go, which is why my partner and I started Awaken
• 1:21:42
  Rhema, which is our coaching business.
• 1:21:45
  And your partner is somebody who also walked through recovery.
• 1:21:49
  She's in recovery as well, and she's a strong believer in
• 1:21:53
  Christ. And it's funny because we were
• 1:21:56
  trying to think of a name for our coaching business, and we
• 1:22:00
  both came up and God spoke to both of us.
• 1:22:03
  Awaken Rhema. Wow, he gave you both the same
• 1:22:06
  name. Yeah.
• 1:22:08
  And this, and I always say this, this is his coaching business.
• 1:22:17
  This is this is God's coaching. Business now is this different
• 1:22:19
  from the sponsoring thing? Yes.
• 1:22:21
  OK. So it's so the sponsoring thing
• 1:22:23
  is, is your service. Yes, that's my service, this is
• 1:22:26
  my business. And we do sober coaching,
• 1:22:32
  recovery coaching, we do sober escorting, we do case
• 1:22:36
  management, we do mental health and trauma coaching because that
• 1:22:43
  is really rampant, really rampant.
• 1:22:46
  And I feel that women are getting stuck in identifying
• 1:22:52
  themselves in areas where that is not their identity.
• 1:22:59
  It's not your identity is not the trauma you've gone through,
• 1:23:04
  you know, And so we really have a heart to help the the women
• 1:23:11
  just uplift, get uplifted. Like we want them to have what
• 1:23:16
  we have in Christ. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:23:18
  Like, excuse me, we have. She and I both are so strong in
• 1:23:24
  Jesus, and we love him so much that we want other women to love
• 1:23:29
  him like that, you know, because it's his love that sets you
• 1:23:34
  free. It's knowing that he's got your
• 1:23:37
  back, no matter why. And you don't have to.
• 1:23:41
  Yeah, you've gone through this, but you don't have to stay
• 1:23:45
  there. There is a better way of life,
• 1:23:48
  you know. I'm not.
• 1:23:50
  We're not therapists, so I'm not going to tell you how you got
• 1:23:52
  there. OK, Yeah.
• 1:23:54
  But I am going to tell you how you can move from there.
• 1:23:56
  Yeah, because therapists is always looking back.
• 1:23:59
  And we're looking for. And you're, you're looking, it's
• 1:24:01
  goal oriented for coaching. Where can people find you?
• 1:24:06
  We have an Instagram and a Facebook and my partner is
• 1:24:11
  really big on the marketing end of it.
• 1:24:13
  And so she's, you know, she takes care of all of that.
• 1:24:16
  And I pray over the marketing and lay hands and ask God to do
• 1:24:20
  what he wants to do with it. And if it's nothing, it's
• 1:24:23
  nothing. I'm OK with whatever he wants to
• 1:24:25
  do because he gave us the name. So he's the big boss.
• 1:24:30
  I'm not arguing with my father. Is he the?
• 1:24:33
  CEO, He is the CEO. That's great.
• 1:24:36
  So. Cortana, thank you so much for
• 1:24:38
  coming and sharing your story and unpacking the 12 steps.
• 1:24:41
  And I'll just letting us have a peek into what recovery looks
• 1:24:45
  like and how God's using you and sharing so many great takeaways.
• 1:24:50
  Well, thank you and thank you for having me.
• 1:24:52
  I mean, this is wow, Yeah. It's an honor.
• 1:24:56
  Thank you.