Latest / Pod Save America / “Sick of vaxxing nicely.”

Transcript

“Sick of vaxxing nicely.” · Pod Save America

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: On today's pod, White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: joins to talk about the President's new vaccine requirements, Republican
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: politicians lose their shit over Biden's announcement, and Donald Trump
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: commemorates 9-11 by skipping the memorial ceremony, hinting that he's
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: planning to run for President again, and doing color commentary
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: at a pay-per-view boxing match in Florida. Good times. But first, Jon,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: tell us all about the return... Of Love It or
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Leave It Live.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Love It or Leave It is coming back. We're calling
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: it Live or Else.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: I like that.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: We'll be back starting next week with live shows at
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the Arena Cine Lounge Outdoors. You can go to crooked.com
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: slash events. We're going to do shows every Thursday night
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: until we head to New York to do our big
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: show at the Beacon. You can get tickets for all
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: of these shows at crooked.com slash events. It is vaxxed only,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: by the way.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: It would be really funny if it wasn't.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: So you're a tyrant like Joe Biden, putting in a
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: vaccine requirement, huh?
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Bullies you root for.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: That's very exciting. I can't wait. One more thing before
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: we start. We are only one day away from Election
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Day in California, where a few right-wing activists have forced
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: a recall of Governor Gavin Newsom. If you're a registered
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: voter in California... Check your mail for your ballot. Fill
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: it out. Return it by tomorrow, September 14th. You should
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: have already gotten the ballot by now. Or, if not,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: go vote in person tomorrow, September 14th. If you've already voted,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: you're not off the hook. Remind every single California voter
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: you know. Again, make sure you vote no on question
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: one to stop a Republican takeover of California. And, of course,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: what I just said, not authorized by a candidate or president.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: A committee controlled by a candidate because, you know, I
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: was going to go for that workaround, but no siree.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: Checking all the boxes.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: No puppeteer strings from Gavin Newsom in here.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: Biden's here today. Yeah, he is. In Long Beach.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Before you all get excited, not on this podcast, but
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: he is going to be in Long Beach with Gavin
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Newsom this evening.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: He's in the L.A. area.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: But next best thing, we have Ron Klain, so that's
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: pretty cool.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: The Ron Klain interview is one of the best interviews
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: I've ever heard. It doesn't happen for three hours. We're
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: time traveling people. You're going to hear it.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Visit votesaveamerica.com slash California to learn more about the recall.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: All right, let's get to the news. President Biden has
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: launched a new front in the war against COVID-19 by
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: announcing a vaccine requirement that will apply to roughly 17
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: million health care workers, most federal workers, federal contractors, and
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: all private sector businesses with 100 or more employees, though
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: those employees can also submit to weekly testing if they
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: choose not to get vaccinated. The president also announced that
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: employers will be required to give employees paid time off
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: to get vaccinated and that major retailers will now be
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: selling home testing kits at a much cheaper price. Here
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: to talk more about this, as well as a few
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: other things the Biden administration has going on in September,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain. Ron, welcome back
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: to the pod.
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me, guys.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: So 1,600 people are currently dying every day on average,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: the vast majority of whom are unvaccinated. Were you surprised
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: at all by how quickly the debate turned to questions
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: around tone and and potential political backlash over the mandate
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: as opposed to the impact of the policy itself?
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: No, look, I think the president said in his remarks
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: that we've seen pandemic politics in the United States, people
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: trying to politicize what should be a science-based, evidence-based approach
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: to fighting this pandemic. We've seen governors threatening to cut
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: the salaries of school administrators if they require kids to
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: wear masks. We've seen governors trying to fight efforts to
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: promote vaccination in their state. So look, The political backlash
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: is something we expected, but the president's doing the right thing.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: It is time to put this pandemic behind us. It's
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: time to get the rest of the country vaccinated and
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: to enable everyone to go back to kind of a
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: more normal way of life. And the only way to
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: do that is to really put on these kinds of
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: requirements to raise the share of the country that's vaccinated.
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: You know, when we came here in January, we launched
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: an unprecedented program to make the vaccine free, safe and available,
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: available at 80,000 sites. People had five months, 80,000 places
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: for 90 percent of Americans. It's within a five minute
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: drive of their homes. I still have more than 75
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: million Americans who haven't even gotten the first shot. That's
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: something we needed to address. That's what the president's plan does.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: How confident are you that what the president announced on
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Thursday will survive these Republican legal challenges?
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: Well, I'm very confident. I mean, first of all, you
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: and John went through the list. The requirement that federal
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: employees be vaccinated is clearly within his authority. The requirement
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: that federal contractors also clearly within his authority. There's requirements
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: on various healthcare facilities come from the ability of Medicare
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: and Medicaid to regulate the facilities where they get the vaccines.
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: The one that I know people have debated the most
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: is this requirement to use the Occupational Safety and Health
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: Administration's to regulate workplace safety to impose this vaccine or
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: test requirement. And I think what the lawyers have told
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: us is that that's a very standard application, essentially, of
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: OSHA's authority to protect the workplace. OSHA tells you if
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: you're working on a construction site, you've got to wear
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: a hard hat. They tell you if you're working around
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: noxious chemicals, you've got to wear a respirator mask. Well,
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: we're in a pandemic right now, and to keep workers safe,
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: to keep people in the workplace safe, requiring vaccinations is
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: part of OSHA's mandate, part of OSHA's responsibility to keep
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: people safe on the job.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Dr.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Fauci just said in an interview that he supports vaccine
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: requirements for air travel. Polls show that around 60% of
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Americans agree with him. Have you guys been discussing either
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: a vax requirement or a vax or test requirement for
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: air travel?
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: No, as Jeff Zients said recently, it's something we continue
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: to look at. We want to kind of weigh the
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: number of people that these requirements get vaccinated versus the
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: burden on the vaccinated, having to show proof every time
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: you go onto an airplane, having to wait at longer
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: lines than TSA. But I think it's something we'll look
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: at as we continue to progress.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: We think the.
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: Most efficient vaccine requirements are ones that where people are
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: kind of in a permanent situation, on the job, you know,
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: in the military where they verify once and then they're
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: verified in that scenario. We think we're going to pick
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: up the vast majority of Americans with the requirements we've
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: put in place. About two thirds of people who work
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: in the workplace will be subject to these requirements of
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: either vaccination or testing. But look, I think we'll continue
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: to look at other measures to be taken if we
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: need to take them.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I am officially confused about this debate over boosters. There's
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: a report out this morning authored by 18 scientists, including
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: two who are leaving the FDA, that says none of
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the data so far provides credible evidence and support of
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: boosters for the general population. Doesn't the CDC's own data
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: and the data out of Israel contradict this?
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: Well, John, I'm not going to debate the scientists about
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: the science. What I'll say is this. We're going to
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: let the FDA and the CDC sort this out. They
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: have a big advisory committee meeting, I think, at the
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: end of this week or early next week. They'll make
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: a decision about who needs boosters. when they need boosters,
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: under what conditions they need boosters, whether that's the general
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: public or just older people, in what age groups. In Israel,
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: they've been going down from the oldest citizens gradually down
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: to lower age groups. We're going to let the regulators
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: decide that. What we've done at the White House is
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: do two things. First, we bought the boosters, so we're
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: ready to go whenever the regulators give approval, and we've
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: set up a distribution system. So what will be very
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: different than back in December, when vaccines were first approved
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: and the FDA said, yes, go on vaccines, but you
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: couldn't get a vaccination. You didn't know where to get
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: a vaccination. You had to wait weeks or months to
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: get a vaccination. This time, whatever the experts decide are
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: needed on boosters, they will be available immediately within 24
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: hours to whomever's authorized to get them through a massive
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: network of retail distribution.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: So there've been a few moments where it seems that
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: the administration and the CDC have not been necessarily at odds,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: but have been communicating differently about the threat, whether it's
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the contagiousness of vaccinated people, the need for masks. Have
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: you been frustrated personally in your role at times by
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the way in which the CDC has communicated information.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: To the public?
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: Look, I get that it's frustrating for people who, you
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: hear something from the CDC, then the facts or science
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: changes and the message changes. But that is what science-based response.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: To an epidemic means.
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: The CDC reacts to new research, new science, and new
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: developments in the pandemic. They react to new information as
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: the variant and the virus changes. And I know we
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: all wish, and as a human being, I wish that
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: there would just be One set of scientific research, it
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: would be clear cut, it would be completely black and white.
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: We would know the answer. The answers would never change.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: We'd never learn anything different. That would obviously make life easier.
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: And for me, as a policymaker, it would make policy
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: easier and explaining policy. But what we're committed to is
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: to having the CDC determine the science and changing our
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: policies and our approaches as that scientific information changes. And
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: that's what we've seen over the course of this year.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: That's what we're doing. And I think the public can
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: have confidence in that, that we're going to do whatever
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: the best scientists tells us to do as the science
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: and information develops and as this virus changes.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Public health experts say that Delta means we have to
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: learn to permanently live with COVID-19 as an endemic virus.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: What does the White House think about that? And what
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: does that look like for people?
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: Well, John, I don't know what that's going to look
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: like if that's the outcome here. I think what we
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: know we need to do right now is to reduce
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: the number of cases, reduce the number of deaths, reduce
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: the number of hospitalizations by getting the rate of vaccination up,
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: by having people wear masks where they need to wear masks,
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: by protecting our kids in schools, by getting the schools
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: open full time and doing all those things. I don't
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: know what the end game is. I don't know how
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: many cases of COVID we'll have after we do all that,
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: but we need to do the work we need to
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: do right now, which is to get that vaccination rate
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: up and to move to where we can bring down
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: the number of cases, number of hospitalizations, the number of deaths.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Aside from COVID, you guys have a couple other things
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: on your plate this month. Rolling Stone just reported that
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: the president assured Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi that he's
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: ready to push for filibuster reform to pass voting rights legislation.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: You know, this is near and dear to our hearts.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Is that report true?
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to comment on his private conversations with
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: the leadership of the House and the Senate. Look, I
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: think on voting rights, what we're really looking for is
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: first for there to be an agreement among the key
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: Democratic senators, the so-called gang of eight that's been meeting
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: to try to work out a compromise version of H.R.1, S. 1,
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: to try to bring the For the People Act back
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: before the Democratic caucus and get support. That's the next
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: step in the process. We're going to take this one
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: step at a time.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Has the president's position on filibuster reform with regards to
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: voting rights changed at all?
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: I just not going to get into that, John. We
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: got to the next step in this process is to
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: get a plan that 50 Democrats are for. Once we
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: get there, we'll go from there.
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: I tried.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: You tried.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: You know, what can I do?
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: So in negotiations over the I'm going to call the
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Build Back Better bill, because I don't know whether to
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: call it an infrastructure bill, a jobs bill, a social
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: safety net bill. We could use a shorthand, not your
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: biggest problem. We've seen some versions that are circulating that
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: push prescription drugs to 2025, that push the, say, dental
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: provisions for Medicare to 2028. Mike Donilon, your colleague, gave
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: an interview talking about something that's been clear from the beginning,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: this effort to do things big and fast so people
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: really can see a difference in their lives. in 2022
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and 2024. How do you balance that with these negotiations
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: over price to make the math work and to get
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: some of these moderates on board?
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: Well, look, I think we can put together a very
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: strong package that has broad support among Democrats. I wish
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: some Republicans would join us in the effort to cut
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: the cost of child care, cut the cost of elder care,
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: bring down the cost of prescription drugs. But if they won't,
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: we're going to proceed with Democratic majorities in the House
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: and the Senate to get that done. Now, We're a
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: democratic party. A lot of people have different views inside
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: our party. I think ultimately we can come together and
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: put together a package that does all these things. We're
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: gonna have to find a way to balance all that
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: inside the cost envelope we have, inside the ability to
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: pay for it. But I think we can make significant
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: historic progress on the key goals of this bill, as
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: well as the critical goal of fighting climate change by
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: making the investments we need, particularly in clean energy tax
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: credits and other measures that will help put us on
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: the track to a clean energy future. It'll create a
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: lot of jobs. It'll combat climate change. It'll make us
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: all healthier.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: How confident are you that some kind of clean energy
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: standard will end up in the bill? And how important
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: is that to you guys?
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: I think all of it's important. And look, I'm fairly
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: confident we can find a formula that works for our Democrats.
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: I'm confident that we can put it together with other
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: things around it. And fighting climate change is a critical,
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: critical part of this legislation. It's one of the four
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: main crises President Biden was elected to address. And we
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: see that passing this Build Back Better measure with very
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: strong climate change measures is a really critical objective for
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: our administration.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: So, Ron, I have these two friends. I'm trying to
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: plan a trip with them.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: And I promised one of them that the trip would
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: cost $ 1, 500. And I promised the other friend it would
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: cost $ 3, 500. Do you have any advice on what I
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: should tell them to get them both to go on
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the trip?
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: Well, actually, I think that's a great question because what
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: I would tell them both is, let's find common objectives
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: on where you want to go, how much fun you
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: want to have when you get there, what you want
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: to do, what it's going to be like. And I
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: think that's a lot less about the price tag of
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: the trip and more about the right objectives, the right goals,
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: and the right kinds of activities for that trip. And
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: that's really, all kidding aside, what we're talking about here.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: Whatever the final price tag of this winds up being,
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: what it has to do is meet the moment on
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: the problems we have as a country in terms of
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: things like childcare, elder care, housing, those kinds of things,
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: the critical crisis of combating climate change, providing some relief
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: to middle-class families who deserve to have their taxes cut,
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: and that it be paid for by finally doing something
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: about tax reform long overdue to raise taxes on those
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: at the high end of the scale to raise taxes
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: on big corporations that are paying no taxes at all.
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: That's the critical objective. I mean, in the end, what
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: I'd say is, and this is where I have to
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: break your metaphor, John, look, the cost should be zero.
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: It should be zero because we should be able to
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: make the tax system fair enough to pay for the
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: help that we need to deliver on climate change and
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: help families dealing with the expenses they're dealing with in
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: this country.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: One last question for you. What's the vibe like.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: On the Joe Manchin houseboat. What's the food situation? Talk
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: to us about the water pressure. What is it like
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: when he's entertaining?
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: I had a lovely dinner with Senator Manchin. We had
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: a great evening. He served Italian food.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: It was delicious.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: And look, I enjoy every conversation I have with Senator Manchin.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: We have different perspectives and different points of view, but
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: he wants to do the right thing for the country,
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: for his state. We are working with him very hard.
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: I have a great deal of respect for him. Again,
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: we have our differences. There's no question about it. But
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: he's been a great partner and ally of our administration,
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: played a critical role in delivering the rescue plan, played
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: a critical role in getting us this far. We're going
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: to work with him going forward.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: But you guys, people probably don't get this always from
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: reading the coverage. You guys and Manchin and Bernie, you're
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: all talking behind the scenes all the time, right? It's
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: not just like communication with each other via op-ed in
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: I mean, John, you worked at the White House. You
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: know what this is like, which is I have phone
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: calls almost every day with one or more of those individuals,
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: whether that's Senator Sanders or Senator Manchin or Senator Warren
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: or Senator Schumer or Senator Whitehouse or Senator Schatz or
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: Senator Brown. You can go down the line, right? And
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: obviously a lot of people in the House as well.
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: And so I think that this is an ongoing conversation.
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: I think I understand why the press focuses on the differences.
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: And there are differences. And there's no doubt about those differences.
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: But what we're having a conversation among people who all
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: think we need to do something about child care, who
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: all think we need to do something about prescription drugs,
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: who all think we need to do something about elder care,
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: climate change, all these things. And the difference in American
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: politics is not among those people. The difference is between
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: those people and a political party that's practicing climate denial,
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: that doesn't want to do anything about these critical challenges.
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: That is the fundamental difference in American politics. It's not
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: between these different variations of how Democrats want to tackle it,
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: but between Democrats who are working to come together on
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: a plan to tackle these problems and Republicans who right now,
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: and I fear it will not change, all to a
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: person are saying they're going to vote no.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Very much agreed.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: And you stand by saying that you enjoy every single
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: conversation with Joe Manchin.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: I'm kidding. Don't have to respond to that. I do.
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: I do.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Look, that's my job.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: I like it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: I really do love it.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Ron, thank you so much for joining Pod Save America.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Please come back again soon. We appreciate it. Of course.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me.
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the reaction to Biden's announcement. Healthcare workers
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: and public health experts praised the vaccine requirements. Most businesses
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: and unions welcomed the vaccine requirements. Most Americans are in
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: favor of vaccine requirements. But most Republican politicians and pundits
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: completely lost their shit after the speech. Full meltdown. Among
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: other things, they called Biden an authoritarian, a tyrant, a fascist,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and a rotting bag of oatmeal.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: Who said that?
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Some asshole on Fox called him a rotting bag of oatmeal.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: That's so vivid and mean. I know.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: The Fox News chyron was, quote, Biden declares war on
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: millions of Americans. So that was subtle. The Republican National
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Committee and almost two dozen Republican governors have promised to
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: sue the administration. And just to give you a sense
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: of how this is playing out on the campaign trail,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Ohio Senate candidate J.D. Vance called for mass civil disobedience,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: while his opponent, Josh Mandel, compared Biden to the Gestapo.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Always something about it.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: And he did it. He drove into the middle of
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: a cornfield where he found a Trump sign in the
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: middle of the night, and he stood in front of
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: it with just headlights, I think, illuminating him.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I missed that.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: He really did look like the children of the corn.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: Someone did a cut of the movie poster and him
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: side by side, and it was uncanny.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Josh Mandel, one of the dumbest politicians alive.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: I know we all hate J.D.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Vance.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: That guy is worse.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: But the thing about it, yeah.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's also, it is, there's some comfort to
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: the fact that J.D. Vance is losing, J.D. Vance and
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: like all of his big tech Peter Thiel money from
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: California is losing to Josh Mandel, one of the dumbest politicians.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, I think it comes, you know, look,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: you can pretend to be dumb, but there's nothing like authentic.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Political dumbness.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: That's a good point. Can't fake it till you make
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: it when it comes to stupidity.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Tommy, Axios ran a piece recently about the vaccine requirement
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: responsibly titled America's Civil War of 2021 that credulously quotes
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: an anonymous GOP congressional staffer saying, quote, every Republican in
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the country is salivating over Joe Biden igniting the vaccine debate.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Should they be?
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: What do we know about the politics of this issue?
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: So let's start by being nice. There's a Civil War
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: comparison to be made, but it's probably 600,000 dead in
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: the Civil War, 600,000 plus dead from COVID. Not from
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: the mandate.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: That is true.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Why was that being nice?
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm just trying to be nice to Axios.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: I'm glad they preemptively elevated to Civil War status. I
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: appreciate it. The interesting thing about that article is, did
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: you guys notice that it actually enraged conservatives?
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: No.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: They were very mad, hugely mad. There was an entire
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Fox News write-up of how mad they were via tweets.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: If liberals are mad, conservatives are mad. Looks like we're
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: doing something right.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: The conservative take was, how dare you call this a
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: civil war? There was mass disobedience last summer over George Floyd, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: It's always like, I'm rubbing your glue.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: It's very much the same thing. Yeah.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: So I think it is true that if you look
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: at conservative media— this is now the thing they are
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: all focused on. If you look at Ben Shapiro's Twitter feed,
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: which I do every day, every morning, several times a day,
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: he tweeted that he's vaccinated, he's in favor of nearly
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: everyone he knows getting vaccinated, but he called Biden's mandate tyrannical, authoritarian,
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: anti-science bullshit. So Ben is pro-vaccine, but he just doesn't
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: want the government to do anything to help people get there.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: And I think that position does not count. That is
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: not a real position to be pro-vaccine and anti-mandate. If
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: you believe the vaccine is effective and necessary to protect
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: the country... then you.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Believe that it should be required because that's what we've
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: been doing with vaccines the entire history of the fucking country.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: They've all been required. There's a long list of vaccines
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: you have to get before a kid goes to school.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Facts don't care about your feelings.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: If I don't support these mandates and if my wife
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: had a wet-ass pussy, I'd take her to the hospital.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Let's go.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: All of these guys.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: It is 11 a.m. and I was not ready for that.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: I was not either.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Not ready for that here on a Monday morning.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: There's a huge part of this Republican ecosystem that knows
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: that half of the Republican base is now anti-vax. So
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: this gives them like a fig leaf to offer to
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: these guys. But I think among the broader American public,
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: there's recent polling that suggests that Americans will support these
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: vaccine mandates. Gallup found 56% support employers requiring workers get
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: vaccinated 61% support vaccine mandates for air travel. So we'll see. Now,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: permission to be contrarian? Granted. Thank you both. Here's the
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: thing that keeps me up at night. In 2020, the
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: polls were way off, as we recall. One of the
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: reasons was because during COVID, you had a bunch of
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: liberals who were more likely to respond to surveys that
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: skewed the data on the horse race. It also skewed
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: data suggesting that the country was more in support of
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: government intervention to stop COVID. I worry about that happening here, maybe.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: That's just a thing that's in the back of my head. Now,
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: long run, the Biden people are probably thinking what really
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: matters is getting this thing under control, getting the economy back, right?
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: Like getting people back to work. Cases go down. We'll
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: stop talking about this mandate stuff. But I don't know.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: It makes me worried.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Permission to be contrarian to your contrarian. Please.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: Just let me know when this wraps.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: No.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: Sorry, let's go back to the anatomical discussion that you
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: brought up.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: I didn't.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: It is a great point. I actually am concerned about
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: it because I'm concerned about all polling these days since 2020.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: The one thing that's different with this is we have
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: actual numbers of people who've gotten vaccinated in the country.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And the number of people who've gotten vaccinated already would
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: suggest that, of course, a huge number of that is
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: a bunch of Republicans who've gotten vaccinated. And so, I mean,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I do think this is your classic wedge issue for
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: the Democrats and that just about all Democrats support vaccines,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: vaccine requirements, independence, a majority of independence, and like half
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: the Republican base. One poll showed that one third of
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Trump voters support a requirement. The Steve Shales super PAC
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: that supports Biden, they did a bunch of polling in
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the swing states and they found support for corporations requiring
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: vaccinations is between 61 and 68 percent in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: and Wisconsin. Now, again, that's corporations. It's not quite the government,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: but it's the, it's, it's a similar idea.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: And also time.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: And again, we have found that like ideological concerns are
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: very real and important and, but also much more salient
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: to people who think about politics all day and much
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: less to people actually being asked questions.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: They won't care about the outcomes.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: The other piece of this is, yeah, we don't know
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: exactly what the, what the polls mean, but as you know,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Dan wrote a great message box about this. Everybody should
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: check out message box about like this opportunity to kind
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: of realign around vaccinated versus unvaccinated. And maybe this is
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: one of those rare issues that can trump kind of
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: party identification, especially when Republicans have spent so long turning
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: the vaccine into an identity issue. Well, OK, there are
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of Republicans who are now vaccinated. And the
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: other piece of this is. maybe the polls are wrong
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: and actually people are a little bit more unsure about
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: these kinds of mandates.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Let's make the argument. Let's see what happens if we're
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: actually talking about this.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Which is Dan's point. Democrats have not really engaged in
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: the argument yet. And Tommy, you touched on this, but
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: there's sort of a larger political issue at play, which
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: is concerns about the pandemic right now are dragging down
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden's approval rating possibly more than anything else. If
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: he doesn't end the pandemic, he's going to have a
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: hard time getting reelected and vaccinating more people is the
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: fastest way to end the pandemic, right? So even if
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: the polls didn't show that people were in favor of
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: vaccine requirements. You'd want to put in place vaccine requirements
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: to end the fucking pandemic because that's the best way
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: to make sure you get reelected.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe Biden was elected on the promise of delivering
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: competence in defeating the pandemic. Now, there's plenty of like
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: bad punditry blaming Joe Biden for every single thing in
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: the world outside of his control, right wing misinformation, the
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Delta variant. But what is true is that if he
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: fails to to successfully get us out of this, people
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: will hold him responsible for it, fairly or not.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: The other piece of this is it is remarkable.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: How quickly the kind of punditry around this issue moved
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: past 1,600 people are still dying every day. There is
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: no ability for political mainstream coverage to keep that as
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: a present part of the debate. It is immediately to
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: blow back, immediately to the problem of what this will
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: do for persuasion. It's also very difficult to persuade unvaccinated
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: people to get the vaccine after they've been killed by COVID.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: They become an unreachable.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Group of voters.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: That's a tough argument to make.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: There's also just like it's worked in the military since
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: the Department of Defense announced that active military were required
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: to get vaccinated. They did this on August 25th. The
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: percentage of military members with one shot went from 76
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: to 83 percent. So it's working.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Worked at the Department of Defense. Worked at the VA.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Dennis McDonough. VA secretary was there was the first department
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: to do it. It's worked there. It's worked to private
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: companies like United and Delta.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: Love it.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: What do you think led the Biden administration to embrace
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: these requirements now as opposed to weeks or months ago?
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Jen talked about this on Friday. She
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: was asked because originally many months ago, Joe Biden said
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: he was opposed to this. A little while after that,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: you know, Jen was asked about this and she said
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: that that was not their role. They gave three answers. One,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: they were surprised at continued resistance.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: I think we all are.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I think we talked about this many times. We knew
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: that there would be holdouts. I'm not surprised that there
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: is a hardened group of right wing people that have
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: not gotten it. And I'm not surprised that there's some
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: hesitance in the broader population. I'm surprised by how much
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: it has been sustained. Even after approval, they talked about
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: the fact that they had hoped that full approval for
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: the vaccines might move some people. It seems like it's helped,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: but not enough. And the third piece of this is
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: we're in the middle of yet another surge. Maybe it's peaked,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: but immune compromised people, vaccinated people, children are They are
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: all put at risk because of unvaccinated people. And the
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: way Biden said it at the speech, I thought was great.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: We have to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated people. That is,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's more complicated than that. The approval,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: it feels like an eternity in politics, but it was
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: two weeks ago.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. One argument from a few of the slightly saner
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Republicans that's getting picked up by some of the nonpartisan
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: media is that Biden's vaccine requirement and his decision to
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: specifically call out the unvaccinated in his speech will only
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: harden opposition to getting the shot. The Associated Press headline was,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Biden's war on the unvaccinated, not too much different than
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: the fucking Fox Chiron. And Jake Tapper said, I don't
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: think scolding is the approach. What do you guys think
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: of that, Tommy?
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: I think it will probably harden some people, harden some opposition.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: But their bet is that for every Josh Mandel who
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: drives into a cornfield and like films himself yelling, there's
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: an even greater number of people who haven't gotten vaccinated
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: because they didn't have the time or they're young. or
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: they were on the fence, or they were nervous, and
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: now they have to, right? And so like, that's the bet.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: There's a big chunk of these, what, 80 to 100
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: million people, I think they say this order covers, will
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: just decide it's not worth fighting this. Let's just get vaccinated.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: The other piece of this is, yeah. It's a mandate.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: It's not about persuasion. That's the whole point of it.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I can't understand why people don't get that part.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: It's really wild.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: It's so wild to me.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: It's also people who have kind of laid at Joe
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Biden's feet the failure to persuade people who are completely
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: consumed by right-wing media. And now when they move beyond
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: the persuasion, they blame him for moving beyond persuasion and
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: not sticking to the old tactics that weren't working, as
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: if these sort of pundits have some third way to
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: kind of get hardened opponents to go for this.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: It's very silly.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Pardon the opposition is like a phrase that people are saying,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: and I don't really know if they know what it means.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: It's like, find me the unknown. people out there who
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: are still considering getting their shot after half a year,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: but now they won't because their employer is requiring it.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Who are those people? I was thinking about it. I
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: was about to go to Rite Aid, and then fucking
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden announced that. No, now I'm not doing it.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: My opposition is hardened.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: My opposition is hardened.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think like broadly speaking, you can divide
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: the unvaccinated into kind of two. And this, you have
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: to kind of blur your eyes, but there's two big groups.
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: There's like ideological- Basket of deplorables. Yeah, sure.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: He wrote the line for Hillary.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: I think he did. Their ideological objectors, like their right wing,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: they're hardened already.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: They're hardened against Biden. They're hardened against the vaccine. Like
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: some of them still will get the shot because of
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: this mandate, because like they may do like blood and
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: soil on social media.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: But there's golf clubs at the back of that F-150.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: And like they're.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Not they're not going to like follow J.D. Vance to
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: the root of Reveille and start pulling up pulling up
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: cobblestones like they're not going to do Les Mis with him.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: He's a venture capitalist. Nobody knows who he is except
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: people in DC. So not worried about that. I mean,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: look crazier things have happened, but beyond that, like, okay,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: you look beyond the right wing and like, there are
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: hesitant people. I do think sometimes, you know, people are
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: people and it's not a decision not to get the vaccine.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Like I do think you see in some of the
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: kind of data and some of the kind of interviews,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: like a decision to not decide, and this forces some
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: people to make a decision. And the other piece of
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: this on top of getting some hesitant people off the
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: fence to kind of like treat this as a deadline.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: There's leave to get the shot. There's leave in case
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: you have side effects. And I do think that like
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: a big, you know, that people that have decided not
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: to get it so far, some of them are worried
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: about losing hours, losing their job because of side effects.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: And that's a really good point. I mean, this this
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: immediately gets covered from a political perspective. And so, you know,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: there's a tendency to treat the unvaccinated as a bunch
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: of right wing Republican Trump supporters. And that's just not
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: the case. And I think the requirement is going to
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: have the biggest effect on people who aren't those right
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: wing Trump supporters who are unvaccinated, which are like you said, Tommy,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of young people, a lot of black and
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: brown people, a lot of people who aren't engaged in
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: politics at all and are just like, I'm not quite sure.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: There's a ton of totally understandable vaccine hesitancy. This will
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: push those people. Let me tell you one use case, though,
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: from a far right MAGA person. You guys remember Dr.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: Ronnie Jackson, White House doctor, famous pill pusher turned MAGA idiot,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: congressman in Texas. Ronnie was on Fox News this morning,
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: and he said the only reason he got vaccinated was
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: because he knew that Nancy Pelosi wouldn't let him travel
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: abroad on Codels until he got vaccinated. So in his
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: attempt to go on Fox and Friends and rant about
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: vaccine mandates, he accidentally made a great argument for why
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: they work. Great case, Dr. Ronnie.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Even with the hardcore MAGA.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: Wild. Thank you, Ronnie.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: It is so wild watching him scream on Fox. He
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: was the most mild mannered.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: Guy, like barely raised his voice.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: He was just screaming on Fox about vaccine mandates.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost wild.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Almost as if we have a broader set of incentive
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: structures on the right that turns people with ambition and
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: a lack of moral courage into genuine monsters on a
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: regular basis.
• 32:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: But even even like the Ben Shapiro, like the Daily
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: Wire or whatever the thing he works for, like they
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: said they're going to resist. They're going to sue. They're
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: going to like, I guarantee you. Half that office, 75%
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: of that office is vaccinated.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: To the barricades.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: To the barricades.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Also, again, this is not about getting every, I mean,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: I don't believe anyone thinks that these vaccine requirements will
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: get every last person vaccinated. But some is better than nothing.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And again, like, you know, we're not going to hit
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: herd immunity now, but just, you know, getting that. 54
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: percent up to 60 percent to 65 percent. Like that's
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: going to have a huge effect on saving lives and
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: ending the pandemic.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: And, you know, sure. Will it be some headlines that
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: say Biden vaccine mandate hardens opposition amongst insurrectionists?
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Harlan Hill will be upset. He might go to
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: Philly again to fight.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: What do you guys think the best way for Democrats
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: to talk about this issue is? You know, Gavin Newsom,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Terry McAuliffe have made it centerpiece of their campaigns. You
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: can imagine Democrats in the midterms doing that as well.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Like what's what's sort of the best way to talk
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: about this on the trail?
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: I don't know yet. I'm sort of wary of using
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: the California race as an example because Gavin Newsom's problem
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: was the Democrats either didn't know there was a campaign
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: or they weren't motivated to vote despite receiving a ballot
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: in their mailbox at home. He needed to get a
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: whole bunch of Democrats to wake up and vote. And
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: I think the biggest gift to Gavin Newsom was Larry
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: Elder becoming, you know, the front runner on the Republican side.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: So we'll see. I think like in some ways, just...
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: But the best thing that happened to candidates in 2022
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: is a better economy and just less Delta in the world.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: And Biden has done the hard work for them in
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: sort of pushing to get us there.
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at the debate over vaccine mandates is
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: still among the most salient issues in November of 2022.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: We have big fucking problems.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: But, you know, even right now, as we're making this argument,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: like turning the temperature down and saying we're just trying
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: to protect people's health and safety. Like we have all
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: kinds of vaccine mandates. It's not that big a deal.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: And everyone's kind of overreacting. We're just trying to keep
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: people safe. And all these people are making it about politics.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I know before I like dig into polling, I always
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: think like what makes most sense to me. And I
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: thought that the we have all kinds of vaccine mandates
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: and we always have made a lot of sense. And
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: then sure enough, when I read Dan's message box, Navigator
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Research tested a message that was just that it's with
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: vaccines have been required for children for decades. This is
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: just another one of them. They tested that against a
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Republican message that was you know, vaccine requirements are a
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: violation of personal freedom and everyone should have the choice
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: to decide whether they want one or not. And the
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: message about schools requiring vaccines forever beat out the Republican
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: message by 17 points. So I do think that's something.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Turning the temperature down, I think, is a good way
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: to put it when you're out on the trail. Okay,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: before we go, we should talk about Saturday, which was
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: the 20th anniversary of the September 11th attacks. President Biden
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: and Vice President Harris commemorated the day at different events.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: George W. Bush gave a speech in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, and
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: then attended a name-reading ceremony at Ground Zero with the
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Obamas and the Clintons. Donald Trump was also invited but
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: declined to attend. Instead, he told some New York cops
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: and firefighters that he's probably running for president again, and
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: then flew off to Florida where he provided running commentary
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: at a pay-per-view boxing match with his son, Here are
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: the two geniuses previewing the fight.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: We're here at Hard Rock in Florida, and we're going
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: to have, hopefully, a very great night with a lot
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: of great champions. To them, they're going to be having
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: a good time.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't want to do it.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: A lot of people wouldn't want to do it.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: But they look like they're going.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: To have a good time. I just saw a couple
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: of the fighters.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: And they love doing this stuff.
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: So we're going to watch Evander and Vitor.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: We're going to watch Anderson.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: Silva, Lupito. Lupito is fantastic.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: So we're going to have some fun tonight.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Guys, I think this is going to be a.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: Lot of levity at the end of a rather somber day.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: That was my favorite.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: I love people who say things like that. I love
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: people who are like, I love humor. There's going to
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: be a lot of levity. Don Jr. just can't talk.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I kind of want that music to be playing in
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: the background every time Trump talks.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Trump is actually spinning.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: It was weird. What do you guys think the reaction
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: would have been if Barack Obama or George W. Bush
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: or basically any other politician in America skipped a 9-11
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: ceremony to host a pay-per-view boxing match? Tell me, you
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: think that would go over well?
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: It's just like there's been all these moments along the
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: way where he just defies the normal laws of political gravity.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: And it's so frustrating, right? Like calling McCain, making fun
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: of him for getting captured and tortured was one.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Remember that?
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: Skipping the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I.
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: seemed like a moment that should have pulled him down.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: A Democrat did this.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Suckers and losers, remember what he called the troops after
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: World War II at the D-Day Memorial?
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's super bleak how close it's still, it
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: just reminds me every time I see how awful and
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: ridiculous it is.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: It's like, man, this fight should be easier.
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: It should be a little bit easier.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: I just can never tell.
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: If this is just a unique to him skill or
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: ability or built an advantage, or if it's just that
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: a Democrat would face the unrelenting assault from Fox News
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: in the conservative media ecosystem that he just doesn't have
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: to deal with.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: I think he's also successfully worn us all down. Yeah.
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: That's true. There are no expectations for him anymore. He's
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: always going to do the worst thing and be the
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: worst person. It's just baked in already. So when he
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: does something like this, you're like, yeah, of course that's
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: what he's doing on 9-11.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and as always, it is also like, it is
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: an extreme example of a larger trend in Republican politics
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: and in the way the media covers Republicans and Democrats generally,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: which is we only ask responsibility of people we expect
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: to be responsible.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: And so all you have to.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Do is signal and portray yourself as profoundly irresponsible and valueless,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: and nobody expects anything else from you. And the media
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: just moves on and bakes it into the kind of
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: stock price of your politics.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Now, during the many hours of commentary, Trump did not
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: say anything too new or outlandish, but he did have
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: a message for one of your favorite Pod Save America hosts.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Let's listen.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: Congratulations.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: You know, Vitor, your stock was very high, but your
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: stock is even higher tonight.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have that as my ringtone.
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: For those confused, the boxer's name is Vitor Belfort, who
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: beat Evander Holyfield, who's 58 years old. This is the
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: most washed up fight of washed up people. I would
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: rather watch Jake or Logan Paul fight, whatever fucking sentient
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: being will get in the ring with them.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Can we let Holyfield in the ring?
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Holyfield hadn't fought since 2011.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Didn't, am I?
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: That's a long time ago.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Was he involved in some sort of ear incident?
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: Was it, did Tyson bite his ear off?
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Was it his ear?
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: Whose ear did he bite?
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: I don't remember boxing in the 90s.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Mike Tyson was the ear biter.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, Mike Tyson bit Evander Holyfield. It was.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: It was, okay.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Actually, I think he did it twice. It was in 1997.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: He got two bites of the ear?
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Fool me once.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: The thing about two bites of the ear. The thing
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: about Tyson is... Oh, it's the same match.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, same match.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: The thing about.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, man, what made him go back?
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: And when Tyson was asked about that.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: He said.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: You know, you eat Evander Holyfield's ear, 30 minutes later,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you're hungry again.
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: Oh, my God.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Tyson was interviewed about it and said, why'd you do that?
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: And he said, because I wanted to kill him. It's like, okay.
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: Very clear.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Back to Trump skipping the 9-11 ceremony with all the
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: other living presidents. What do you make of Trump choosing
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: to visit with the cops and firefighters instead?
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: For whatever reason, the second I saw that, I sort
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: of made a connection to the fact that right now
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: the LAPD is suing against vaccine mandates.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: I think he sees white.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Cops and firefighters as sort of a part of his
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: base and a group of people that are on his side.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: And so he's on their side and he likes he
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: likes that as part of his sort of authoritarian choir.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like he's also setting up the populist dichotomy again.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Like he doesn't want to be part of the elite club.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: There's the Obamas and the Clintons. They're doing the official ceremony.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: I don't want I'm with the I'm with the real
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: people here.
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: I'm sick.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: I'm sick of this. This, you know, clubby 9-11 memorialization.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Right. Oh, that's the official thing. That's I'm going to
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: do something different because that's that's what he's trying to do.
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: But even the pull aside with the cops and the firefighters,
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: I think he was ranting about Biden in Afghanistan and
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: like the election lie. And just he just talks about himself.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Well, and so he got a question about 2024 during
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: that pull aside. And he said, I know what I'm
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: going to do, but I'm not supposed to be talking
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: about it yet from the standpoint of campaign finance laws.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: But I think you're going to be very happy. Should
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Trump start being treated as a presidential candidate again?
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, he's just skirting campaign finance law, right? And
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: he just doesn't want to officially announce.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, which is what every, which is what every, that's
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: not a special thing for him. That's what they all do.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: But yeah, he's running for president. He's running for the
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: Republican nomination.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, the, uh, yeah.
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, you know, Politico told me a couple of
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: weeks ago that it was because of Afghanistan that he
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: was now going to, Trump was now deciding to run
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: for president.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Was it, was it Politico or Washington Post?
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: It was a bunch of outlets took, I'm sure Jason
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: Miller on background saying that the reason Trump is now
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: deciding to run. No, actually Jason Miller was on the record.
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: a bunch of Trump aides were quoted saying that, oh,
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: Afghanistan is what really tipped the balance for him. And
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: now he's going to run as if he wasn't always
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: going to run.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: So as Trump says this, and he's been dropping a
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: lot of hints, this is probably the most forward he's been.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: There's a new CNN poll out that has 51% of
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Republican voters saying that the party has a better chance
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: of retaking the presidency if Trump is the nominee. 49%
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: say the party would be better off with a different nominee.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: That's actually closer than I would have thought. What do
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: you guys think? Is this still Trump's party or is
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: this a a party that wants Trump like politicians.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: I really actually like I'm trying to understand the kind
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: of like, I don't know, arbitrage between the the the
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: bigger majority that thinks he should be the nominee and
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: then the smaller majority that would like to see somebody else.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Well, there's there was another question. Do you think he
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: should be the leader of the party, which was in
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: the 60s, which leader of the party was, I guess,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: a little slightly different for people than nominee.
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: Well, right.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Well, there's leader of the party, but then just sort
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: of there's continuing polling about who the nominee should be,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: and he leads those.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: By a large margin.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: So, like, it's a sort of.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: What I have a feeling it is is just, like,
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: an outlier.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: Poll, actually.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: What do you think, Tommy?
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: I just sort of think it kind of doesn't matter.
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: Because if he runs, he wins with that number, and
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: he scares everybody else out of the race. Because, like,
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: Ron DeSantis knows it's political suicide to upset the MAGA
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: base by running against hair Trump. So.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: That's exactly who we are. And that's why... Lovett, that
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: answers your question, because I think... you could add up
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: the percentages of all the other candidates in those polls
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: and get them to be close to Trump. If you had,
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know, plus all the other candidates and it
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: would be close to that 51 49. But again, when
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: you actually run the race, right, you're going to face
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: the same thing that they all did in 16 that
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Rubio did. And Christie didn't, no one wants to be
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: the one to go after Trump because then DeSantis goes
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: after Trump, Trump kills DeSantis. And then Christine Ohm is, uh,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: the new front runner.
• 43:42
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: And the other thing too, is it's, you know, as, uh,
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: He's going to be the nominee?
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: As bizarro Trump would say, Joe Biden, don't judge him
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: against the almighty, judge him against the alternative. It's all
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: fun and games to think, oh, of course, yeah, I
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: wish there was another alternative to Trump. But when push
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: comes to shove, there's going to be seven other people
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: on that stage and they're all going to be mini
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Trumps and much worse than him because they're going to
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: be doing an impression.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: Or you got like Bill Weld throwing worse punches than
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: Evander Holyfield or something like some washed fault.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: It's going to be worse than 2016. In 2016, you
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: had a bunch of them that like belatedly started taking
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: on Trump. They have now built an entire party that
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: is a cult around Donald Trump. It is the reason
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: for existence of the party. There was another question in
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: that CNN poll, like, how important is it to being
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: a Republican that Donald Trump won the 2020 election? And
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: 60-something percent of people said it was one of the
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: most important reasons that they're a Republican, is to worship
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump and believe that he won the last election.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's like a kind of done deal.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Trump is now the kind of, like, the brand leader.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: republicanism is like the operating system or like the engine
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: underneath it, but that's not what's public facing. Like you
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: don't realize it's like unreal engine in, in, in video games.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Like you don't realize you're playing on a Republican game
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: because the brand is Trump. You are, you have bought
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: a Trump game.
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: Interesting. So is he big, sir?
• 44:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: What is that?
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: Is he big? So what OS are we? Republicans are big, sir.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Unreal engine is a kind of a, uh, let's just
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: move on.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: One of the most notable moments from the weekend's 9-11
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: events came during George W. Bush's speech when the former
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: president basically compared the 9-11 hijackers to the Trump supporters
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: who stormed the U.S.
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: Capitol.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Here's a clip.
• 45:17
  Speaker 6: The dangers to our country can come not only across borders,
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: but from violence that gathers within. There is little cultural
• 45:26
  Speaker 6: overlap between violent extremists abroad and violent extremists at home.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: But then there's.
• 45:32
  Speaker 6: Disdain for pluralism. in their disregard for human life, in
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: their determination to defile national symbols. They are children of
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: the same foul spirit, and it is our continuing duty
• 45:47
  Speaker 6: to confront them.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Trump folks weren't too happy about that part of the speech.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: Don Jr. shared a tweet calling Bush the worst president ever.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: What'd you guys make of Bush's comments?
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: First of all, like, children of the same foul spirit. Like, man,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you, you know what? Absence makes the heart
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: grow fonder. I still fucking hate this guy.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: And I am like the kind of ponderous.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Flashback to like I feel like growing up, right? I
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: came of age during the Bush presidency and it was
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: so like he just still talks the same way. It's
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: the same speech cadence, the same writing.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the children of a foul spirit.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: It's a sort of like vaguely kind of like Bible
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: with a head injury kind of like I can't. I
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: don't I like it really does give me kind of
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: like these terrible feelings from the Bush years and a
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: reminder that while, you know, the people on our news
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: are goldfish who every day wake up anew, unsure of
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: what the table bring, not remembering the day before. Like
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: those eight years were terrible. He did terrible, terrible damage.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: He set the fire that led to Trump. And I
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: don't want to give him any credit for being vaguely
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: honest in kind of ponderous language now.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: I don't care.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: You couldn't find even the most mild criticism of George W.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Bush's record anywhere on the television during this event.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And that's a problem.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Not even the most mild criticism. hey, maybe we should
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: also talk about, nah, let's just talk about it as
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: a unifying speech.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: As if the Afghanistan news cycle, by the way, didn't
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: just transpire.
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: Right, right. Well, there's been this, like, there've been a
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: lot of important lookbacks, I think, 20 years after 9-11.
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: We've had Afghanistan, drones, legal framework. Like, maybe this take
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: won't land well in D.C. or, you know, in New York.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: Let the sirens go. D.C., there's a take coming.
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: This isn't going to land well, DC. Here it comes.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Get to your bunkers.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: Maybe there's a little too much civility after 9-11, guys.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Maybe we came together a
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: little too much and we didn't really have a lot
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: of tough conversations about like, How 9-11 happened. How it
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: happened on George Bush's watch. All the things they missed.
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: All the warnings about Al-Qaeda. All the lack of information sharing.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Everything that came after. The Patriot Act. Guantanamo Bay.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: The absolute torture.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: Bloodlust and desire for revenge that we all felt. But
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: that's what brought us together.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Donald Rumsfeld is the centerfold in Vanity Fair.
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: Yes. And I'm not just talking about the Iraq War.
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: It was torture. It was Gitmo. It was half committing
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: to Afghanistan for the first several years of the war.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: It just.
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: I'm glad that there are all these look backs that
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: are happening. We're all like taking a tough look at
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: the Obama presidency and drones and all these things. It's
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: just like watching all these reporters talk about how moved
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: and amazing it was to hear George Bush talk about
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: January 6th. Like I'm not that desperate to hear Republicans
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: say that storming the Capitol was bad. We should also
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: talk about all the other stuff. I'm glad.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I should say like, I'm glad he said it again.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: These things happen and everyone's like, you either love George
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: Bush again or you hate him. You know, it's like, No,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: good for him for saying that about the people who
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: stormed the Capitol. That's great. Everything else is garbage. Yeah,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: I do think like– You can have both thoughts in
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: your head.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I think back to that time and it's like part
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: of the look back is like where did that unity go?
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: And it's like, you know what? It's absolutely true.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: We can have unity in this country at any moment
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: as long as we all decide to be conservatives. That
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: is what happened in the days after 9-11.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Specifically around war too. That's always been an– a part
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: of that problem in a big way.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: I think sometimes, too, when someone like George W.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Bush comes out of retirement to say something true that
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: should be easy to say, but it's actually hard because
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: of our politics, there's this sort of like to quote
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: George W.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Bush, like soft bigotry of low expectations.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: And it's like this idea that if George W. Bush
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: is willing to say this, well, maybe other Republicans will
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: say it. Maybe things aren't so bad. Maybe maybe maybe
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: maybe Republicans aren't an unhinged fucking rearguard action against modernity.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: I would say what it does is for a bunch
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: of people who aren't fully engaged in politics or who
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: only pay attention once in a while, like on the
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: anniversary of 9-11, hearing George Bush call out the domestic
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: extremists that stormed the Capitol does make those people think, oh, yeah,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: If George W. Bush is saying that, maybe Republicans today
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: are pretty fucking crazy. I think it helps. I had
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: no problem. I think it helps.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: I think that's totally fair. I am talking about the
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: kind of pundit reaction.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, that is just bleh.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: Like the kind of.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Desire for normalcy that this allows them to perform for
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: a few hours.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, that is truly gross. I think there's one more
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: clip from.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Well, I just think it's important that while obviously we
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: made fun of Trump, there are people who I think
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: approach the day with the sobriety... and gravitas that it requires.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: Can you imagine a.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: Tony Blinken or Miley? How's that guy a general?
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: Jesus.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: The other day he said that the Bagram.
• 50:49
  Speaker 6: Air Force Base is not strategically important.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: I wanted to grab this. What do you have? Five stars,
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: 10 stars, 12 stars.
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: So many stars that come in.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: To his ears.
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: I wanted to grab his stars, shove.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: It down his throat and say, it's 400 miles from China.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Rudy doing the old, uh, it's five o'clock somewhere. Speech prep.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: That was what a, what a 20 years it's been
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: for Rudy.
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: Remember that video? from like 10 years ago of David
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: Hasselhoff completely shit-faced, trying to eat a hamburger on the floor.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: That's what that reminded me of. And it's kind of
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: one of those things where you're like, it's jarring, it's
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: kind of funny, and then you're like, that guy needs
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: some help.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: You know, it's very sad.
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: He is a disaster.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: People should keep him away from microphones and televisions.
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: This was, like Maggie Haberman was tweeting, this used to
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: be like a really solemn event for 9-11 families or
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: first responders or people impacted by this. Now it's like
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: getting live-streamed by Steve Bannon. And Rudy's doing like blackout
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: roast comedy. What's happening?
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: It's not great. It's not great. That's it. That's all
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: the time we have for today. Thank you, Ron Klain.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Thanks, Ron Klain. For joining this program, I'm sure.
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: Thanks, Ron.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you'll do it again.
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: Thanks, Ron. Thanks, Rudy. Thanks, George Bush. Thanks, Vander Holyfield.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: Children of a foul spirit.
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the one I wrote down was.
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: Defeated the designs of evil. It's always about evil. It's
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: always good versus evil. There's no introspection.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: It's just Gerson all the way down.
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: It's Gerson, yeah.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: It's a very specific kind of overridden because defeated evil
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: is fine. I don't know what designs I was getting you,
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: but it's a cadence thing. I love that kind of
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: lyrical cadence.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: If you want us to do George W. Bush speech analysis, we're.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: Here all week. I'm all about celebrating the people on
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: Flight 93 who prevented another attack. All of it is
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: It was good that Bush got up there and told
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: the troops we're grateful to them and everything else, but man,
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: does that guy sand down every issue into black and white. Yeah.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's his deal. That's his deal. That's what he's
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: known for.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a thunder road.
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, you're with us or against us. Yeah, I
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: do remember that.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: Acts of evil.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Famously.
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: Acts of evil. That was something. That really set things
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: in a great place, in a great direction.
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: I do like the people just, like, celebrating Bush for
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: bringing back civility. And then I think back to 2002
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: when the Republicans ran against Max Cleland, who had lost
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: three limbs in Vietnam and called him soft on terror
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: because he didn't want to get– ban unions in the
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: Department of Homeland Security.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Right, for that.
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: That's what it was.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: It was also very, very civil in 2004 to have
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: closet case Ken Melman going around the country passing gay
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: marriage bans in the Constitution.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: That was great.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: That was terrific.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Anyway, that's it for this episode.
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: Very civil.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: What was going on in the 2000s? We'll see you
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: on Thursday on Xbox Safe America. Pod Save America is
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Flavia Casas, and our associate producer
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: is Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Sominator,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou, Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford,
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Milo Kim, Yale Freed, and Narmel Konian, who film and
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: share our episodes as videos every week.