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Lunar Tides, Galactic Twins & Holiday Cheer: #481 · Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries

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  Speaker 1: Hi, Andrew Dunkley. Here, Fred and I are taking a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of a break over the Christmas New Year period,
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  Speaker 1: just to catch our breath. We'll be back sometime around
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  Speaker 1: mid January. In the meantime, we've been digging through the
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  Speaker 1: archives at some of the most perplexing and popular episodes
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  Speaker 1: that we've done in recent times. So sit back and enjoy,
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  Speaker 1: and we'll see you in twenty twenty five fifteen.
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  Speaker 2: Seconds in Channel ten nine ignition.
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  Speaker 1: Sequence Space Nuts or three two one Space Nurse, as
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  Speaker 1: when I reported Neil's good as usual. Joining me is
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  Speaker 1: Astronomer at Large Professor Fred Watson.
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  Speaker 2: Hello, Fred, Hi Andrew, Good morning, tis morning as we
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  Speaker 2: record this so I can say good morning.
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  Speaker 1: Yes is yes, Now I'm at a different location today.
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  Speaker 1: Do you love my Teal wall?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it looks like what is it? Yeah, it looks
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  Speaker 2: like a green screen, you know, for you're getting a
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  Speaker 2: good background on TV there. Yeah, it's very nice.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does, doesn't it. Yeah, it's just somebody painted
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  Speaker 1: the entire office that I work in Teal. It's I mean,
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  Speaker 1: if I turned the camera around and showed you every
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  Speaker 1: wall in the place, they'd all be that color.
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  Speaker 3: It's rather dreadful, but anyway, we carry on regardless. Okay, Fred,
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  Speaker 3: let's get down to business. We'll start off with this
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  Speaker 3: warning from NASA that the Moon is approaching a cycle which,
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  Speaker 3: when combined with the climate change issues that the planet
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  Speaker 3: is facing, we'll see high tides exceeding flooding thresholds in
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  Speaker 3: some parts of the world. Now they're talking the mid
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  Speaker 3: twenty thirties. This is quite quite astonishing.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. It's so, it's nothing new as far
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  Speaker 2: as the astronomy is concerned. What we've got is a
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  Speaker 2: situation where astronomy and climate change of coming together, if
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  Speaker 2: I'm putting anyway. So, the Moon, you know, it goes
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  Speaker 2: through various cycles. The most the one we all know
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  Speaker 2: is the monthly cycle. It's a That's why we call
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  Speaker 2: it a month, because once a month the Moon goes
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  Speaker 2: round in its orbits around the Earth. But the orbit
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  Speaker 2: itself undergoes other cycles as well, and in particular, there
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  Speaker 2: is an eighteen point six year cycle that is to
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  Speaker 2: do with the procession of the Moon's orbits. Now, I
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  Speaker 2: think we've talked about the precession of the Earth's axis before,
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  Speaker 2: and that's something easy to understand if you think of
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  Speaker 2: the Earth as a big spinning top. It's spinning rotates
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  Speaker 2: once every twenty four hours, but its axis is also
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  Speaker 2: rotating around, just like a spinning tops does, and that's
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  Speaker 2: called precession. In the case of the Earth's axis, it
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  Speaker 2: goes around once in twenty six thousand years, so it's
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  Speaker 2: a much longer period phenomenon. But the Earth, sorry, the
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  Speaker 2: Moon's orbit around the Earth does that. Who it's the
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  Speaker 2: if you think of the orbit as being in a
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  Speaker 2: flat plane and then imagine a perpendicular to that plane,
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  Speaker 2: it's that perpendicular that's processing very slightly around around a
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  Speaker 2: pole a.
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  Speaker 1: Bit like a bit like the axis does.
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  Speaker 2: And that's an eighteen point six year cycle. And what
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  Speaker 2: it does is it changes the Moon's orbit, not by much,
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  Speaker 2: it's certainly nothing you'd notice with the naked eye, but
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  Speaker 2: it changes it enough to affect the Moon's influence on
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  Speaker 2: the tides on Earth. And so what happens is that
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  Speaker 2: sometimes during that eighteen point six year cycle, you get
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  Speaker 2: high tides being a bit lower and low tides being
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  Speaker 2: a bit higher, which means the range is getting smaller.
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  Speaker 2: But at other times kind of you know the other
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  Speaker 2: half of the cycle. If I can put it that way,
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  Speaker 2: the high tides are higher and the low tides are lower.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what NASA scientists, along with scientists in the
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  Speaker 2: University of Hawaii have raised an alert on, not not
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  Speaker 2: to be alarmist, but to make the point that what
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  Speaker 2: this has, you know, it's practical effect, is that coastal,
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  Speaker 2: low lying coastal areas will have more of these things
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  Speaker 2: that are sometimes called nuisance floods, floods where you've got
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  Speaker 2: a high, really high tide and it floods the streets
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  Speaker 2: of the of the you know, the coastal areas. There
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  Speaker 2: will be more of those. That's the point that they're making,
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  Speaker 2: and in particular, this is likely to be the case
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  Speaker 2: from the mid twenty thirties for a few years. And
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  Speaker 2: so what they're saying is not, oh, you know, this
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  Speaker 2: is a terrible situation, We're all going to die. It's
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  Speaker 2: not that. It's about it's about, you know, advising city
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  Speaker 2: planners and local authorities that look after the the flood
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  Speaker 2: protection on coastlines and things of that sort, all of
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  Speaker 2: these people who need to know that we're likely to
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  Speaker 2: see more of these events in the twenty thirties.
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  Speaker 1: What about low lying places like the Maldives that are
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  Speaker 1: only like one or two meters above sea level. What
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  Speaker 1: sort of an impact would it have on places like.
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  Speaker 2: That, Yes, exactly, so that you know there are also
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  Speaker 2: places that are at risk because you might not get
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  Speaker 2: it won't be dramatically that much higher than it is now,
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  Speaker 2: but it will be more often. You know, it might
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  Speaker 2: be it is probably still a fraction of a meter
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  Speaker 2: that we're talking about the difference, but it will happen
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  Speaker 2: more often.
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  Speaker 1: So and we've heard of king tides happening.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the act.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, so good, Maybe a bigger king tides
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  Speaker 1: is what we're talking about.
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  Speaker 2: That, that's exactly it. So technically a king so a
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  Speaker 2: springtide is when the moon and the some basically in
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  Speaker 2: the same direction, so you get higher and lower tides.
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  Speaker 2: A king tide usually is that combined with meteorological effects,
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  Speaker 2: which you know, if you get a low pressure region,
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  Speaker 2: then the tide comes up higher, so you can get
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  Speaker 2: these king tides. It's nothing like a tsunami. It's not
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  Speaker 2: that kind of thing we're talking about. It's just an
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  Speaker 2: increase in the tidal range. What I guess concerns me
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  Speaker 2: or interests me about this is that with a sea
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  Speaker 2: level rise, that is a process that's going to continue
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  Speaker 2: for a very long time. So when we get to
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  Speaker 2: the next phase of the of the Moon's you know,
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  Speaker 2: processional period, which will be in the twenty fifties, we're
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  Speaker 2: probably going to get even more effects from this. So
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  Speaker 2: the twenty fifties we're going to see much more of
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  Speaker 2: these coastal intrusions of water. So it's yeah, it's a
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  Speaker 2: it's a good warning. It's actually come from ocean scientists
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  Speaker 2: as well as astronomers.
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  Speaker 1: This work.
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  Speaker 2: It's been done, very careful work. It's easy to find
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  Speaker 2: the reports on it. They've taken the results from many,
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  Speaker 2: many oceanographic studies and folded them into what we know
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  Speaker 2: about the effect of tides in the Moon's the Moon's orbit.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's yeah, it's a well mant and well
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  Speaker 2: placed warning.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, and it looks like their projections go right
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  Speaker 1: out to about twenty eighty, so they've got a pretty
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  Speaker 1: good idea of what's going to happen. I would imagine
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  Speaker 1: that if you're in the the twenty thirties and one
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  Speaker 1: of these super king tides, I suppose they'll end up
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  Speaker 1: calling them in journalism starts to happen at the same
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  Speaker 1: time as you get a massive low pressure system and
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  Speaker 1: a tropical storm of some kind in the same area.
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  Speaker 1: I can imagine what that would do. That's right, let's
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  Speaker 1: hope that doesn't happen. Yeah, exactly, all right, very interesting
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  Speaker 1: stuff and you can actually look up that paper. I
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  Speaker 1: think it's available through NASA and it's widely published, so
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  Speaker 1: it shouldn't be difficult to find. By the bye. Fred
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  Speaker 1: I used to live in Mackay in North Queensland. Julie
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  Speaker 1: and I have moved up there just after we got married.
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  Speaker 1: Now they have king tides, they have playing fields around
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  Speaker 1: some of the beaches there and quite often they'll go
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  Speaker 1: a couple of food underwater when they have big tide.
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  Speaker 1: And the real interesting thing that they've done in MacKaye
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  Speaker 1: to try and alleviate some of these title surges is
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  Speaker 1: that they have built channels in the city that when
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  Speaker 1: you get a big tide comes in, the channels fill
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  Speaker 1: up so the land doesn't go under. We used to
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  Speaker 1: live in a house that had these channels behind them
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  Speaker 1: and it sometimes was full to the brim of seed
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  Speaker 1: water and then six hours later it was empty. It
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  Speaker 1: was fascinating, quite fascinating as well. That's how some places,
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  Speaker 1: especially because it moves so fast that when the tides
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  Speaker 1: going out, that water actually goes in a rush. And
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  Speaker 1: it's a different world up there. I mean I grew
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  Speaker 1: up around the Newcastle area where the tides were pretty mild.
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  Speaker 1: Mega would be the word, and to be the same
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  Speaker 1: in Sydney. But up in Mackay you can actually walk
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  Speaker 1: with the incoming tide. Oh it's really fascinating. Yeah, very
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  Speaker 1: slow walking pace, but it came in that fast, and
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  Speaker 1: I know there are other parts of the world where
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  Speaker 1: it actually comes in like a wave. So yeah, it's
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  Speaker 1: really I find that kind of influence of things like
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  Speaker 1: the moon on our water ways here just quite intriguing.
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  Speaker 1: I do find it amazing, and I've witnessed some pretty
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  Speaker 1: amazing tides and king tides over the years too. You
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: are listening to the Space Nuts podcast with Andrew Dunkley
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  Speaker 1: and the good Professor Fred Watson Spacemuts.
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  Speaker 4: Hello, space Nutters. I'm Anna, the host of the Astronomy
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  Speaker 4: Daily podcast, and I'm here to share a couple of
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  Speaker 4: the stories we've been following this week as special bit
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  Speaker 4: extra for this holiday edition. Of space nuts. Today, we've
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  Speaker 4: got some heartwarming holiday cheer from the International Space Station
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  Speaker 4: and an exciting discovery about a galaxy that looks remarkably
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  Speaker 4: like our own Milky Way in its youth. So let's
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  Speaker 4: kick things off with a story befitting the season. The
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  Speaker 4: International Space Station is truly embracing the holiday spirit this year,
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  Speaker 4: with the crew sending down a delightful video message from
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  Speaker 4: their orbital home. Picture this, floating candy canes, and even
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  Speaker 4: a creative snowman made from stowage bags decorating their space
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  Speaker 4: sanctuary two hundred and sixty miles above Earth. Commander Sunita
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  Speaker 4: Williams sporting festive reindeer antlers, gathered with NASA astronauts Barry Wilmore,
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  Speaker 4: Don Pettitt, and Nick Haig, along with their Russian colleagues
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  Speaker 4: alexey Ovchinin, even Wagner and Alexander Gorbunov. To share their
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  Speaker 4: unique celebration. While being away from their earthbound families during
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: the holidays might seem challenging, the crew has created their
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  Speaker 4: own special festivities aboard the station. They've transformed their orbital
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  Speaker 4: outpost into a cozy holiday haven, complete with a small
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  Speaker 4: artificial Christmas tree adorned with ornaments featuring photos of their
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  Speaker 4: loved ones. The ground teams have made sure our space
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  Speaker 4: explorers won't miss out on holiday treats, preparing special festive
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  Speaker 4: meals for the crew. As Don Pettitt enthusiastically shared, they're
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  Speaker 4: all set for quite a feast up there. It's particularly
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  Speaker 4: touching to note that they're not alone in their holiday duty.
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  Speaker 4: Ground crews across the globe are also spending their holidays
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  Speaker 4: ensuring our astronaut's mission continues smoothly. It's a reminder of
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  Speaker 4: the dedication and sacrifice that keeps our space program running
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  Speaker 4: even during the festive season. Now, let me tell you
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  Speaker 4: about an absolutely fascinating discovery that's got the astronomy world buzzing.
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  Speaker 4: The James Webb Space Telescope has just captured images of
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  Speaker 4: what we might call our galaxy's baby photos. Except these
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  Speaker 4: aren't actually of the Milky Way, but rather its ancient twin.
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  Speaker 4: Scientists have nicknamed this celestial gem the Firefly Sparkle, and
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  Speaker 4: it's giving us an unprecedented glimpse into our cosmic past.
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  Speaker 4: This remarkable galaxy came into being just six hundred million
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  Speaker 4: years after the Big Bang, which in cosmic terms is
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  Speaker 4: like looking at the universe in its infancy. What makes
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  Speaker 4: this discovery particularly special is that it features ten distinct
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  Speaker 4: star clusters, each one shimmering like a firefly on a
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  Speaker 4: summer night. These clusters formed at different times, creating a
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  Speaker 4: structure that mirrors what astronomers believe our own Milky Way
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  Speaker 4: looked like in its early days. The Wellesley College team
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  Speaker 4: behind this discovery couldn't have asked for better images. The
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  Speaker 4: galaxy appears wrapped in a delicate, faint arc, and its
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  Speaker 4: mass matches what scientists estimate the Milky Ways would have
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  Speaker 4: been at the same stage of development. This is incredibly rare.
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  Speaker 4: Most galaxies we've spotted from this early period are actually
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  Speaker 4: much more massive than our own was at that time.
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  Speaker 4: This discovery is like finding a photo album of our
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  Speaker 4: galaxy's childhood, giving us a unique opportunity to understand how
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  Speaker 4: our cosmic home came to be. The stunning detail captured
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  Speaker 4: by the web telescope shows us various phases of star
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  Speaker 4: formation happening simultaneously, painting a picture of a dynamic, evolving
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  Speaker 4: system that's helping us piece together the story of galaxy
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  Speaker 4: formation in the early universe. The most remarkable aspect of
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  Speaker 4: this discovery lies in the numbers. When astronomers measured the
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  Speaker 4: firefly sparkles mass, they found something extraordinary. It perfectly matches
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  Speaker 4: what we believe our own Milky Way weide during its
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  Speaker 4: formative years. This is a cosmic coincidence that's giving scientists
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  Speaker 4: unprecedented insights into our galactic history. Think of it as
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: finding your exact genetic twin, someone who not only looks
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  Speaker 4: like you, but shares your precise genetic makeup. It's essentially
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  Speaker 4: what we've found here in space. While other galaxies we've
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  Speaker 4: observed from this early period tend to be much larger,
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  Speaker 4: the firefly Sparkle is giving us a precise mirror image
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  Speaker 4: of our galaxy's youth. This discovery opens up exciting new
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  Speaker 4: possibilities for understanding how galaxies like our own come together.
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  Speaker 4: By studying the Firefly Sparkle in detail, astronomers can now
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  Speaker 4: observe in real time the processes that shaped our cosmic
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  Speaker 4: neighborhood billions of years ago. It's like having a window
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  Speaker 4: into our own past, allowing us to watch as stars form,
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  Speaker 4: clusters develop, and the basic structure of a galaxy takes shape.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: The level of detail we can see in this ancient
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  Speaker 4: galaxy is unprecedented. Thanks to the incredible capabilities of the
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: James Web Space Telescope, scientists can now examine everything from
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  Speaker 4: individual star clusters to the overall galactic structure, providing valuable
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  Speaker 4: data that will help refine our models of galaxy formation
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  Speaker 4: and evolution. That's all for today's short news update. I've
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  Speaker 4: been your host, Anna, and I must say sharing these
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  Speaker 4: fascinating stories about holiday celebrations in space and ancient galaxy
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  Speaker 4: discoveries has been absolutely thrilling. Whether it's astronauts creating festive
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: memories aboard the iss or groundbreaking discoveries about our galaxies,
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: cosmic twin the universe never ceases to amaze us. If
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: you're hungry for more space and astronomy updates, be sure
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: to subscribe to the podcast and visit our website at
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: Astronomy Daily dot io, where we bring you fresh cosmicdiscoveries
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  Speaker 4: every single day until next time. Keep looking up and
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: stay curious about the wonders above us.
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