Latest / Credlin / Credlin | 30 September

Transcript

Credlin | 30 September · Credlin

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Good evening. Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: tonight on Credlin. 24 hours after mortgage holders were slowed
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: with another rate rise, Labor's still hard at it, trying
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to rewrite the history books when it comes to the deficit.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: We'll get into the numbers in a moment to show
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: you why the government's dead wrong. Fast Australia's data centre
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: boom about to put enormous pressure on our power grid.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: So where's all the energy going to come from now?
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Surely this is the end of net zero, even for Labor.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: More on that foil plot two out of the UK.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: We'll speak to a former Tory MP now working inside reform.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: We'll see how seriously these issues are being treated by
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: authorities here in Australia as well. And back on rates,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: pressure on all sides for the government to finally admit
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: there is a spending problem.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Australians are tightening their belts. This government should be tightening
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: its belt.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: It's not. We'll come back to that in a moment.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: But first, the recent confirmation that multiple Australian government systems
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: were infiltrated by leading U.S. artificial intelligence company OpenAI, no surprise,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: because the Albanese government is asleep at the wheel on
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: cybersecurity as it is on immigration and the economy. But
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: don't let Labor fool you here because the Prime Minister
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: is now using this breach to turbocharge his digital duty
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of care legislation. Anthony Albanese is desperately trying to conflate
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the issue of AI safety and his censorship bill. But
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: as I said here repeatedly, they are two very different things.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: AI safety and a properly resourced cybersecurity apparatus in Australia
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: involving our spy and military intelligence agency is a good thing.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: And in broad terms, so too are global guardrails on
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: the use of AI provided they are sensible and limited.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: But Labor's digital duty of care legislation is about censorship.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: It's about restricting the information that adults can access. Albanese
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: himself bailed a cat on this last week at the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: UN before the next day then trying to deny what
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: was so clearly caught on camera.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: The truth is this is having an impact on our
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: entire society and how it functions with misinformation, disinformation, with
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: the increased polarisation that we're seeing as well in the
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: political system where people are moving away from the centre
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: and more and more to the extremes, be they of
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: the left or the right. This isn't about government control
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: at all. It's not about misinformation or disinformation. I didn't
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: link the two yesterday.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: He cannot lie straight in bed. Australia already has a
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: multitude of laws to deal with illegal online content. We've
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: got laws against fraud, child exploitation, sex trafficking, the sharing
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: of intimate images, so-called revenge porn. We've got laws against
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: online bullying, suicide sites and the dissemination of terrorist propaganda.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: All of this right now already against the law as
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: demonstrated by recent arrests. By contrast, this digital duty of
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: care bill is about so-called harmful content that And that's
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: a very different thing. Now, we don't have a definition
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: of what will amount to harmful yet, but we do
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: know it's likely to be legal content. Otherwise, it would
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: already be captured by our existing laws. Now, worryingly, the
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: definition of harmful is in the hands of a politician,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: the Communications Minister, Annika Wells, using regulations that will only
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: be made if and when the bill passes the Parliament.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: This is why I call it a Trojan horse piece
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: of legislation. And nothing highlights its political intent more than
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the way it grants the Albanese government power to use
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: AI-generated anonymous bots, so-called sock puppet identities, to disseminate information.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: For what purpose now, you ask? Well, Until now, the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: global left has claimed to be outraged by online anonymity
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: and fake accounts. But with the rise of the populist right,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: critics have attributed this rise, of course, to online platforms
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: now outgunning traditional news and information services long dominated by
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: the woke left. That's why Labor's plan now is to
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: constrain free speech and under the guise of harm reduction,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: while at the same time flooding the online world with
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: government-sponsored bots to doctor debate. It's all there in the
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: exposure draft on the government's own infrastructure website. Have a
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: look at it yourself at page 63, where it states,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: it authorises without limitation the use of sock puppet identities
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: by the eSafety Commissioner to generate material using an online service,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: including by means of artificial intelligence, to the extent that
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: the production, dissemination or possession of that material is not
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: an offence against the law of the Commonwealth, a state
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: or territory. Now, just two years ago, the Albanese government
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: tried to ban the use of these anonymous bots via
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: its flawed misinformation legislation that was ultimately withdrawn after widespread criticism. Well,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: now we've got the same government wanting the legal right
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: to create these fake accounts. Two years ago, they wanted
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: to ban fake accounts. Now they've got laws in the
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: parliament to enable them to use fake accounts to distribute
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: what essentially will be Albanese government propaganda online. Now, the
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: only conclusion that can be drawn here is that this
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: will be used by the Prime Minister to silence his
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: critics and halt the rise of a populist movement like
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: One Nation. If this legislation gets up, template versions are
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: likely to be used around the world in the UK,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the US, Europe, everywhere where the right is gaining ground
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: in the face of mass migration and voter backlash against
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: rapid cultural changes in these countries. With Labor at a
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: near record low primary vote of 27 points in the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: latest news poll, and the Prime Minister racking up a
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: massive dissatisfaction rating of 62% of voters, whatever it takes
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: in the cyber world, well, that's gaining a whole new
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Orwellian meaning. As the Communications Minister confirmed in a recent
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: News 24 interview, the reach of these proposed online censorship
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: laws will include news and general interest websites, search engines,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: streaming services, hosting services and apps.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: The duty of care legislation is so broad it could
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: capture more than social media, though.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: It could capture news websites, no? Well, sorry, yes, it does.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: The digital duty of care, my apologies, does go to
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: all online services. So that's a problem.
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: Isn't it?
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: That's a tricky one. Why is that a problem?
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: Well, because it's news sites and that would amount to censorship,
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: wouldn't it not? Because I'm wondering who then defines harm,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: because if it's the e-safety commissioner.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: And then you deciding. It's not about content. It's about
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: identifying risks. Goodness me. She doesn't even know her own legislation.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: This is the left's holy grail. Now, imagine trying to
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: fight against the voice referendum under this regime. I can
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: guarantee you my work in exposing the far-reaching agenda of
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: the Uluru Statement, all 26 pages of it, pushing for
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: a treaty and reparations, well, that would never have got
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: off the ground, despite the evidence obtained via FOI. Imagine
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: discussing the rise of radical Islam, for example, under the
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: scope of these new laws. or being attacked by an
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: army of government generated bots to shut down criticism. Labor's
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: digital duty of care legislation has got almost nothing to
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: do with protecting children or algorithm choice for adults. It's
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: about silencing critics and keeping Labor in power amidst growing
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: voter dissent. Labor's bleeding support over its inability, indeed unwillingness,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to rein in record high immigration. It has to keep
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: the numbers high despite the backlash, or it will expose
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: the budget Ponzi scheme at a time when spiking inflation
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and rising interest rates are taking ordinary income earners to
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: the brink. Add in that catastrophic budget, 40-year high rates
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: of government spending, and these are dark times for the
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Australian economy and for households. This is why a new
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: digital big brother in place before the next election is
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: is now Albanese's highest priority. Talking about misinformation, have a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: look at this.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: We've had $ 178 billion of savings. Every single economic statement
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: that we have handed down has had savings. And indeed,
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: we have savings that are before the parliament right now.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: What a goose. This too from Labor's Minister for Financial Services,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Daniel Molino.
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: 64 billion in saves and reprioritisations is an incredibly significant
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: achievement in the last budget. OK, but my question is
• 10:15
  Speaker 6: about government spending. Do you concede that government spending is
• 10:18
  Speaker 6: a contributor to high inflation? As a result of decisions
• 10:21
  Speaker 6: in the last budget, it will be declining over the
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: forward estimate.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: So it is a factor. You're conceding it is a factor, finally.
• 10:27
  Speaker 6: No, no, and that's why we are leaning in in
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: this area and we are achieving a huge amount.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: But you're still not answering the question.
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: So why don't you, the Prime Minister and the Treasurer
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: and every other member of the Labor Party can see
• 10:37
  Speaker 6: that spending is contributing to inflation? No, no, but Pete,
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: what I'm saying is we are acknowledging the fact that
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: we have to manage the budget responsibly.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: He says leaning in to their $ 64 billion of savings.
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Have a look at the final budget results confirmed by
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: the Treasurer on Monday. We've got a deficit of $ 22 billion.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: So we could hardly have made $ 64 billion in true savings, Minister,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: if we're still $ 22 billion in the rent. This is
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: yet another example of cooking the book's labour style. Listen
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: carefully again to Molino.
• 11:18
  Speaker 6: The $ 64 billion in saves and reprioritisations is an incredibly
• 11:22
  Speaker 6: significant achievement in the last budget.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: There you go. There you go. Saves and reprioritisations. Now,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: that's Labor speak for cutting costs. I'll give it to him.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: $ 64 billion, he says. and then spending all of that
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: and more. It's taking money out of one column, calling
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: it a saving, and then spending it in another column. Now,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: who does that in the real world? You show me
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: a small business that can get away with this, or
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: a big one, I tell you the auditors would have
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: a field day, let alone the billions and billions booked
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: off-budget and yet another accounting trick that makes even girl
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: math look credible. Next thing you know, Jim Chalmers will
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: get some sort of global award as Treasurer of the
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Year for this spin, just like his old boss Wayne
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Swan did. Honestly, these numbers are a joke, only the
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: joke's on us, the taxpayer. We are going to rip
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: into those numbers because they are as dodgy as hell
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: in a moment. But let's get to Cameron now for
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the headlines with our political reporter, Cam Redden.
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: Good evening.
• 12:34
  Speaker 7: The Greens have elected New South Wales Senator David Shoebridge
• 12:37
  Speaker 7: as their new leader. The call I'm not hearing is
• 12:40
  Speaker 7: what do we want? Gradual change.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: When do we want it?
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: In due course.
• 12:44
  Speaker 7: He replaces Larissa Waters, who will take leave to battle
• 12:47
  Speaker 7: chronic kidney disease.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I hope to be OK, but I need to look
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: after myself to do that.
• 12:53
  Speaker 7: In a party room of 11, the New South Wales
• 12:55
  Speaker 7: Senator won seven votes to Maureen Faruqi's four. But it's
• 12:58
  Speaker 7: far from happy families. After the vote, Senator Faruqi released
• 13:02
  Speaker 7: a blistering statement, void of congratulations for the new duo,
• 13:06
  Speaker 7: saying she's disappointed her party room chose another direction and
• 13:10
  Speaker 7: says many others will feel the same.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: At least Maureen Faruqi didn't get the gig.
• 13:15
  Speaker 7: A day after the Reserve Bank lifted rates to their
• 13:17
  Speaker 7: highest point in 15 years, inflation has crept higher to 4%.
• 13:22
  Speaker 7: It is clear and self-evident that the war in the
• 13:25
  Speaker 7: Middle East is putting substantial upward pressure on inflation.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: This government needs to contain its spending, its out-of-control spending,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: and it needs to make it easier to build and
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: make things in this country.
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: Cameron Redden, News 24, Canberra.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: All right, let's bring in my, I was going to
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: say Monday night panel, it's Wednesday, News 24 Senior Reporter
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Carolyn Marcus, Senior Fellow at the Menzies Research Centre, Nick Cater.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: It's been a long week already, a lot of financial
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: data out this week, of course, Nick. We saw today,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: of course, those inflation data numbers coming out, headline inflation
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: at 4% ahead of forecast, more than it was last
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: period and, of course, well above the target band for
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the RBA of 2% to 3%.
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: So.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: More rate hikes are on the way. Like the Treasury yesterday,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: the Prime Minister has been shifting the blame again to
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the Middle East and the previous government.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: The Treasury has been very consistent, speaking about the inflationary
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: pressures which are there in the economy. They were there
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: when we were elected. They've continued to be there. We've
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: continued to take action on it. But as the Reserve
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Bank statement made very clear yesterday, very clear, that the
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: war in the Middle East has had an impact.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Nick, last night I played a clip from the 2022
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: election and in that clip the Prime Minister confirmed that
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the cash rate was 0.1%. He's been the boss ever
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: since then. It's now 4.6, but none of this is
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: his fault.
• 15:09
  Speaker 8: Yeah, he's been Prime Minister for four years, more than
• 15:12
  Speaker 8: four years, Peter, and he's still blaming the previous coalition
• 15:15
  Speaker 8: government for his own economic problems. But this thing about
• 15:18
  Speaker 8: the Middle East war, the Iran war, look, it just
• 15:21
  Speaker 8: won't wash.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: Those figures.
• 15:22
  Speaker 8: today show that, you know, headline rate at 4%. Well,
• 15:26
  Speaker 8: the headline rate will include any short-term increase in fuel prices.
• 15:32
  Speaker 8: It probably includes some electricity prices as well, but that's
• 15:36
  Speaker 8: a 4%. It's the underlying 3.6%, which the Reserve Bank
• 15:41
  Speaker 8: looks at, and it's that which causes the Reserve Bank
• 15:44
  Speaker 8: to lose sleep at night and makes the Reserve Bank,
• 15:47
  Speaker 8: forces the Reserve Bank to lift interest rates. So, You know,
• 15:51
  Speaker 8: we're not talking about the short-term increase in fuel prices.
• 15:56
  Speaker 8: We are talking about the underlying inflation rate, which they
• 15:58
  Speaker 8: have not been able to shift.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: And, of course, Caroline, you know, you look at the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: league table around the world where, depending which table you're
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: looking at, either one or two... in advanced economies in
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: terms of the highest interest rate in the world. Now,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: the Iran war has global fallout, obviously. So why is
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: it only impacting Australia's cash rate and not all the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: other economies? that rely on fuel out of that region.
• 16:27
  Speaker 9: I think it might only be Iceland that is ahead
• 16:30
  Speaker 9: of us, Peter.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty shocking.
• 16:32
  Speaker 9: And the spin that this government is trying to put
• 16:36
  Speaker 9: on this is just, it just makes you nauseous. The
• 16:40
  Speaker 9: RBA governor, Michelle Bullock, could not have been clearer. when
• 16:43
  Speaker 9: she said domestic pressures were a big contributor to what
• 16:49
  Speaker 9: is happening in the country, the decision to raise interest
• 16:52
  Speaker 9: rates to a 15-year high. And now with these inflation
• 16:56
  Speaker 9: figures as well, I mean, the government needs to stop
• 16:58
  Speaker 9: blaming the war. It's kind of like that Fawlty Towers
• 17:01
  Speaker 9: episode where Basil Fawlty keeps saying, don't mention the war,
• 17:05
  Speaker 9: except with this government, it's don't stop mentioning the war.
• 17:09
  Speaker 9: They need to take some personal responsibility.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Spot on. And that's a point well made today by
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the former RBA Governor Phil Lowe. He sat down for
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: an interview with Chief Economist at the IPA, Adam Crichton.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Have a listen.
• 17:24
  Speaker 10: Now we find ourselves running sizable budget deficits at a
• 17:28
  Speaker 10: time where we're at full employment and commodity prices are
• 17:31
  Speaker 10: very high. We should be running sizable surpluses. So we
• 17:36
  Speaker 10: don't have a framework and we're not solving the intertemporal problem.
• 17:40
  Speaker 10: So what we're doing now is spending today and leaving
• 17:43
  Speaker 10: the debt for our kids.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Pretty damning, Nick.
• 17:51
  Speaker 8: When is the right time for this government to start
• 17:54
  Speaker 8: paying down debt?
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: When?
• 17:56
  Speaker 8: I mean, the Intergenerational Report projected that debt will continue
• 17:59
  Speaker 8: until the 2060s. And Phil Lowe made that important point,
• 18:03
  Speaker 8: I think, that we're passing this on to our children.
• 18:06
  Speaker 8: Out of that deficit this year, what, $ 22 billion it's
• 18:10
  Speaker 8: forecast at, probably $ 15 billion, $ 14, $ 15 billion of that
• 18:14
  Speaker 8: is just on paying the day-to-day bills.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: That the government has to pay.
• 18:17
  Speaker 8: Now, anybody who just kept putting their food bill on
• 18:22
  Speaker 8: a credit card would soon be in trouble. But that's
• 18:25
  Speaker 8: exactly what the government's doing. I think it's unconscionable that
• 18:28
  Speaker 8: it's passing all that debt on to the next generation,
• 18:32
  Speaker 8: while at the same time, of course, productivity is flat.
• 18:34
  Speaker 8: So there's no chance whatsoever on the current trajectory that
• 18:38
  Speaker 8: the next generation is going to be earning more, is
• 18:40
  Speaker 8: going to have a higher standard of living than this one.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Let's go to the race for the Greens leadership, of course.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: We had New South Wales Senator David Shoebridge emerging as
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: victor today after Larissa Waters stepped down. What was interesting here, Caroline, well,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I think we dodged a bullet not getting Maureen Faruqi,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: but she would have been actually a gift for Labor
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: because a lot of people on that left that are
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: shifting away from Albanese would have found, I think, Faruqi
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: a bridge too far to And that fighting salvo today,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, Shoebridge really took it up to Labor. I
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: think Albanese and the left faction will not be happy,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: because he's a good communicator, that he has emerged as
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: leader today.
• 19:25
  Speaker 9: He's probably the best chance that the Greens have in
• 19:29
  Speaker 9: trying to attract people a bit more to the centre.
• 19:32
  Speaker 9: I mean, Labor supporters these days, a lot of them are.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Not, you can't call them centrists.
• 19:38
  Speaker 9: They are on the left, far left, but he's probably
• 19:42
  Speaker 9: more amenable to a lot of people. Having said that,
• 19:46
  Speaker 9: I don't think that we've completely dodged a bullet here.
• 19:48
  Speaker 9: I think he might come across as more moderate. But
• 19:52
  Speaker 9: I revealed back in June he'd appeared on a podcast
• 19:56
  Speaker 9: which left the peak Jewish group accusing David Shoebridge of anti-Semitism.
• 20:02
  Speaker 9: It was alongside a filmmaker who he appeared to agree
• 20:06
  Speaker 9: with when she said the Australian government were hijacked by
• 20:09
  Speaker 9: Jewish lobby groups. Now, that says to me a lot
• 20:13
  Speaker 9: of the problems within the Greens that have to do
• 20:15
  Speaker 9: with extremism and anti-Semitism and... an apparent support for terrorism
• 20:22
  Speaker 9: at times, is not entirely void with just having David
• 20:27
  Speaker 9: Shoebridge as a leader. He just maybe appears slightly more moderate.
• 20:31
  Speaker 9: I'm not convinced that he is a whole lot more...
• 20:33
  Speaker 9: I'm still glad it's not Maureen Faruqi, I have to say.
• 20:36
  Speaker 9: But I also question, you know, this is an ultra-progressive
• 20:39
  Speaker 9: party that blames everyone for being misogynist and racist and Islamophobic,
• 20:44
  Speaker 9: and yet they still voted... for a pale, male, stale
• 20:50
  Speaker 9: leader above the brown Muslim woman. I mean, those would
• 20:53
  Speaker 9: be their terms. I wouldn't use them. I just find
• 20:56
  Speaker 9: that a bit ironic, don't you?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Good on you. I will say Shibbridge denied those claims,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: but he is still agreeing. You're right to remind me
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: that he's still agreeing. I can't get soft here just
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: because we didn't end up with Faruqi. Hey, we might
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: have had a change of heart at the Melbourne City Council, Nick. I...
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to give them credit, though, until it
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: actually happens. But there was a resolution at the council
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: meeting the other night to say Australia Day is our
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: national day. We can't change it. It's beyond the remit
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: of local council. So we need to basically stick to
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: our knitting and recognise that a lot of Australians want
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: this day commemorated. There's even talk that the parade might
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: come back. Yeah, look, I think this is a.
• 21:42
  Speaker 8: A very rare moment of maturity and self-awareness for Melbourne
• 21:47
  Speaker 8: City Council. Nick Rees, of course, familiar to Sky News.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Early days yet, mate, early days.
• 21:53
  Speaker 8: He's the mayor there. Yeah, but yeah, he's actually said, well, look,
• 21:58
  Speaker 8: you know, this is not part of our brief. Nick Rees,
• 22:02
  Speaker 8: the mayor and many of the councillors support changing the day,
• 22:05
  Speaker 8: but they're saying this isn't our business. So for the meantime...
• 22:08
  Speaker 8: We'll carry on with Australia Day because we know a
• 22:10
  Speaker 8: lot of Australians or a vast majority of Australians want
• 22:13
  Speaker 8: to celebrate it. I see there's still a quarrel over
• 22:16
  Speaker 8: who's going to pay for the Australia Day parade if
• 22:19
  Speaker 8: they bring it back. It hasn't been in place, I gather,
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: since COVID. I think a good thing for Jess Collins
• 22:25
  Speaker 8: and the Liberal opposition would be to come out and say,
• 22:28
  Speaker 8: we will fund it, full stop. So there's no quarrel
• 22:31
  Speaker 8: about it. Melbourne needs something like that to celebrate Australia Day.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I think maybe he's trying to manoeuvre ahead of a
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Wilson win in November. I think this is as much
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: about the Melbourne City Council reading the writing on the wall.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Could we be that lucky that there is a change
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: of government? But as I said, we'll see what happens
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: on the 26th of January. I'll be here on the desk.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: If he makes good on this promise, I'll give him kudos. Otherwise,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: he'll cop brickbats. Thank you to you both. Let's go
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: now back to the RBA decision to lift interest rates
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: yesterday to the highest levels in 15 years. Labor yesterday
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: and today again trying to spin it furiously that none
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: of this is the government's fault. The Treasurer, well, he's
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: been pointing to international pressures and banging on about what
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: he inherited from the former government, but... Have a look
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: at what Phil Coury uncovered today in the Financial Review,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: pointing out there's some pretty big claims here from the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Treasurer that deserve a closer look, including whether the government's
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: rewriting economic history. Professor Richard Holden is Chief Societal Economist
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: at UNSW and And he's been particularly critical of some
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: of the arguments that have been put forward by the government.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: He joins me now. Professor, welcome to the program. So
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I read Currie this morning and I almost spluttered on
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: my coffee because he pulls apart these numbers. I mean,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Labor constantly bang on that they inherited an $ 80 billion
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: deficit from the coalition. But that is a lie. They
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: just had an election forecast in PFO, we call it,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: as you well know. It was a forecast of that amount,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: 79 billion, not an actual amount. The actual deficit they
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: inherited was much lower. It was 32 billion. Now, come on,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: they shouldn't be able to get away with this.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right. I really don't know why we're
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: talking about a half decade or so old forecast on
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: the way out of a pandemic. I don't see what
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: that's got to do with anything. We should be looking
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: at the actuals. We should be looking at this government's performance.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: And we should be taking account for the things that
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: happened since then, like a nearly $ 400 billion tax windfall
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: from high commodity prices, high inflation driving up tax receipts.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I never hear the Treasurer saying, you know, let's factor
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: in all the good luck that I had. So I
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: really think it's just very disingenuous of him the way
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: he's framing this.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I just played some comments from former Governor Phil Lowe.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I think he pretty much said what you just said then.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I assume you're on the same page with him.
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I think Phil's been very strong on this. And, you know,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: he said that at this point in the economic cycle with,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: you know, historically low unemployment, pretty high terms of trade,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: and things like that, we ought to be running budget
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: surpluses and we're running budget deficits. And, you know, I
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: saw the Treasurer in a press conference today making a
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: sort of snide remark about the fact that former Governor
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Lowe was talking on an IPA podcast, whatever that's got
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: to do with things. I cast my mind back to
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: all the times he said that he had a mountain
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: of respect for Phil Lowe. I wonder what happened to that.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Talk to me about government spending. I played a clip
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: at the top of the show of Daniel Molino today.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: He's the Minister for Financial Services, saying that, you know,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: literally banging his chest that they'd had $ 64 billion of
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: savings in the budget, but there was a caveat. savings
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: and reprioritisations. Now, if we had $ 64 billion of savings,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: we wouldn't have a $ 22 billion deficit. We have a
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: deficit because all they do is take money out of
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: one column, call the saving, and then spend it out
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: on another budget line. Again, how do they get away
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: with this?
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really quite remarkable. I think, you know, and
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: you covered it was very telling when Daniel Molino, you know,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: used the word, you know, sort of lapsed into being
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: more honest than his boss and use the word reprioritisations.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is like, you know, a family that
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: doesn't spend money on chicken but does spend money on
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: fish and says that they've saved all the money that
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: they spent on chicken. I mean, it's just not right. And,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: you know, as you say, we wouldn't have these budget
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: deficits if there were all these savings. It's even worse
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: than you say because, you know, that $ 22 billion figure
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: is factors out all the spending on these so-called off-budget
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: items that do add to debt, bailing out aluminium smelters,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: spending money through the National Reconstruction Fund, bailing out copper smelters,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: you name it. We're running about a 2% of GDP
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: budget deficit at this point in the economic cycle. It's
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: really very fiscally irresponsible.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: And we've got a lack of transparency too, Richard. We've
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: got a whole lot of stuff booked off budget. We've
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: got that capacity investment scheme. We're not even told how
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: many billions are in that scheme. There's no transparency about
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the tender processes, even if there is any. I mean,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: every time you put questions to Chris Bowen, you get
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: this commercial in confidence line. I mean, the budget was
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: a hell of a lot more transparent in the Hawke-Keating,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Howard Costello era. Why, again, is this tolerated?
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really don't know why it's tolerated, but the
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Australian public deserve better and governments on both sides need
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: to be held to account. But I think that, you know,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: you've often talked about the lack of trust that people
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: have in politicians. That's clearly got something to do with
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: the rise of more extreme parties. And you can understand
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: why when people feel like they're being lied to.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Just talk to me about recurrent spending, because I had
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: a conversation last night with Warren Hogan about this, and
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: it's a huge concern for him. But to tackle recurrent spending,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: predominantly it's welfare spending, NDIS and other areas, you've actually
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: got to have a tough conversation, a politically tough conversation,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: and start scaling back entitlements, telling people that what you
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: once got, you may not get now in the future. Now,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: The last time anyone tried to do that was back
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: in the Joe Hockey budget of 2014, and that had
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: a disastrous polling impact. But we've got childcare available to
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: people in this country that are not working, that can
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: be sitting at home, their kids can be looked after
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: by someone else, a taxpayer foots the bill, and they
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: can earn as much, that household can earn as much
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: as half a million dollars. How is this allowed?
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're exactly right. I mean, I think one of
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: the things that really marked our public spending was means
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: testing of those kinds of benefits. And that was a
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: hallmark of the Hawke-Keating era, continued through the Howard Costello era.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And that has slowly drifted away to a point where
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: we've now got these universal spending programs that are very expensive.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: It's hard to take things away from people that they're receiving.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: That's is a politically challenging conversation. But just zooming out,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: during the life of this government, they've gone from spending 24.3%
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: of GDP to 26.9% of GDP. That is a staggering,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: expansion of government spending and something needs to be done
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: about it. And sure, it'll involve some tough conversations.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Just quickly before we go, are we going to get
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: more rate rises, do you think?
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you'll see two more in the not
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: too distant future by the end of the first quarter
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: of next year. Sadly, I think, you know, there hasn't
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: been enough done to tackle inflation. That's largely about federal
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: government and to a degree state government spending. The RBA
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: have also been too soft on inflation, they now seem
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: to realise they need to bite the bullet and I
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: think they will, unfortunately.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: And the poor old third only of Australians who have
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: got a mortgage are bearing the brunt of the pain.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: From the RBA, Richard Holden. Professor Holden, thank you for
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: your time. Right after the break, more on the fallout
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: of that foiled terror plot in Britain and the Chagos Islands.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Now I'm going to get someone who's an expert to
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: explain why it matters as much as it does and
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: the latest on that flawed deal. That's next. Welcome back.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: We'll forget Labor's talk of a data centre boom. We
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: can barely keep the lights on as it stands. Where's
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the power going to come from? We'll get into that shortly.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: But now for more on the fallout from the foiled
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: terror plot at RAF Base Fairford. We know five British
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: men were arrested in confirmation overnight. The petrol and accelerants
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: were discovered, but no explosives were found. Alarmingly, as we
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: reported last night, all five men have since been bailed
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: despite ongoing terrorism investigations. Here to talk us through it
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: for his first time on the program, former Conservative MP,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: former soldier and journalist, now a Reform UK insider, Adam Holloway. Well, Adam,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: welcome to the program. You've been in Australia, you're now
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: back in the UK. You've arrived back to this noise
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: at the RAF base as a former military man, former parliamentarian.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: How shocked are you?
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: Well, I mean, it's all part of a much wider picture.
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: The base was used as the forward operating base for
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: bombing Iran in recent months. And it's quite possible that
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: these five suspects, who insanely have been bailed, didn't even
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: know who they were working for. This is the new
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: hybrid warfare whereby people are recruited online. don't know who
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: they're working for. They employ other criminals. They're paid in cryptocurrency.
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: So it's quite realistic that these young men had no
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: idea what they were doing, apart from straightforward criminality. Although
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: we do know that the base was put on standby
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: for some sort of incident. So there must have been
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: some intelligence about this.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had those statements from the US president. You've
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: probably seen those where he sort of was, I guess,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: putting more information out there than we were getting from
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: the UK. I mean, everyone's talking about Iran. We've had
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: some issues in Sydney of people gunned down in the street. Again,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: services bought, murder bought on the internet, on the dark web.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: They've got the wrong individuals in those cases. But, you know,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the reach of Iran into a place like Australia and
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Britain is real, isn't it?
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: Well, I mean, you, of course, have seen it at
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: your cost. I mean, there was an awful attack on
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: the Adas Israel synagogue. There was also the attack on
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: the kosher restaurant in Bondi. And these things were carried
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: out by, you know, young, low-level criminals who, as the
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: head of your security intelligence organization, Mike Burgess, said, you know,
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: it was Iran operating through a complex web of.
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: A web of deniability, if you like. So it's exactly
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: the same thing I suspect has happened here.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I guess the problem you've got too, Richard, over there
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: is you've got all these people that are flooded across
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: the border and you don't really know who they are.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: You only think you know based on what they're telling you,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: like we had with the boat people arriving in Australia
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: a decade or so ago. In many circumstances, they destroy
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: all of their identity papers. So you don't really know
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: who's in your country right now.
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: You're absolutely right. I mean, some years ago, I lived
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: undercover in France with people trying to come across the
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: channel illegally. And my real observation was two things. One,
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: they were all fit young men. And two, part of
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: the thing is you destroy all your paperwork so that
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: you can make up some cock and bull story about
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: how you were treated. This is a real problem. I mean,
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: we've got about 70 battalions of infantry in the U.K.,
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: But via the channel route, we've allowed in about 350
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: infantry battalions worth of undocumented young men. And it is
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: absolutely inconceivable that people like the Iranian Revolutionary Guard haven't
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: had people come into the UK by that vector. So
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: it's happening to Australia. It's happening to Britain.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: So you potentially have, genuinely have, a fifth column in
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: your country?
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: Well, it would be inconceivable for them not to have
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: attempted to bring agents in. And you're seeing this sort
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: of hybrid warfare from stuff that is beneath the level
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: of actual fighting. So cutting undersea cables. setting off fires
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: at the Prime Minister's home or fires in warehouses which
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: have got kit in them destined for Ukraine, attacks on
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: the GPS system, cyber hacking. All this stuff is part
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: of the same thing. So the challenge for us and
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: for Australia And all countries of goodwill is we've got
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: to have resilience. You can't just have yourself dependent upon
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: one undersea cable or one place, one runway for your
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: bombers or whatever else it is.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I guess you've also got to have robust laws too.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: And then when you get an instance like we did
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: over the weekend, they're not immediately bailed and given the
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. But we'll see what happens there.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I know you're deeply invested in the whole issue of
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: the Chagos Islands. We've covered it here earlier in Australia.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: But I want you to explain, given your long history
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: as a military man and a parliamentarian, why this base
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: matters as much as it does and why it's even
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: on the table to be returned to Mauritius.
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: OK, this base matters considerably because, like Royal Adels Fairford,
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: it's the kind of strategic location where bombing can be
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: done into the Middle East. or wherever else. So actually,
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: those are the two key places for the Americans outside
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: continental United States. Now, Britain has had these islands for many,
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: many years. But Mauritius made a claim for them. And
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: an international court gave an advisory judgment. And the judges
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: on that court included, I believe, a Russian and a Chinese.
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: And the British government, the current one, is very left wing,
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: very politically correct, very so-called human rights focused. And they
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: will actually go to pay billions and billions of pounds
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: to give the islands to Mauritians who never owned them.
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: And Mauritians has never probably ever slept on those islands.
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: in order for us to be able to continue to
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: use the base at Diego Garcia. Now, the background to
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: this is in the 1970s, the indigenous people were literally
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: removed from the islands by force and went to live
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: in great poverty in Mauritius and other places. So I
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: thought at Christmas, why don't we try and put the
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: indigenous people back? In short, for the first time, I think,
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: in modern history, to try and return an indigenous people
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: to their homelands. So with support of philanthropists, We've put
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: six people on the islands, but I lived with them
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: at the very beginning as well, much to the horror
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: of the British government, who's trying every possible legal mechanism to.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Get rid of us.
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: But I believe that if we can put the islanders back,
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: and I've got about 300 who want to go, then
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: hopefully we can materially change the whole legal basis and
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: secure the base at Diego Garcia and right a historical
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: wrong against these native people.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: And of course, keep it away from the hands of,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: you know, the Chinese and others who I suspect will
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: just pay off the Mauritians down the track. So you've
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: had a change of prime minister, obviously, in the UK
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: since Starmer made this decision. Is it being backed in
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: still by Burnham? Where does he sit with Trump? What's
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: the latest?
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: It's unbelievable. Burnham could have just dropped it. I mean,
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: these people talk about human rights. Well, what about the
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: human rights of the islanders? And what about the security
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: of the West? We can't have Chinese listening stations on
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: atolls near the base of Diego Garcia. That just can't happen.
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: And I think, thanks to Mr. Nigel Farage, I think
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: President Trump has now got the point. They had dinner
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: together a few months ago in Florida, and Farage explained
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: the situation to Trump, who completely understands it, unlike the
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: British government and far too many of these so-called human
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: rights laws.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's been terrific to have you on the show, Adam.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I look forward to catching up again, not so far
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: down in the future. Thank you for the analysis straight
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: out of the UK. There you go, Adam Holloway. He's fantastic.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: He'll be a regular here on Credlin. Welcome back. After
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: the break, we're going to have a quick break. We're
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: going to get into this issue of data centres and
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: this concern we have for the Australian energy grid with
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Saul Kovonik in a moment. The brilliant Kel Richards is
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: coming up and now to data centres and the massive
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: energy demand required to power them as soon as they're
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: established around Australia in the rates we're told, which will
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: be huge. They will account for some 13% of the
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: nation's electricity use, says the forecasts, within the next decade.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: So what's it mean for our power supply? It's already
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: expensive and increasingly unreliable. Head of Energy Research for MST Financial,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Saul Kovonick joins me now. Okay, well, here's a job
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: for you. Square the circle. The government's really keen on
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: these data centres, wants them in Australia for all the
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: reasons we know, but at the same time is determined
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: we're going to run the country with wind and solar
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: made in China instead of all the fossil fuels we've
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: got in the ground. Around the world, Saul, they're using
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: our uranium, our coal, our gas to run these centres.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Here at home, we won't.
• 41:07
  Speaker 11: I think you're seeing that tension being borne out now.
• 41:11
  Speaker 11: We've got Australia's data centre, AI, Minister Andrew Charlton. There's
• 41:18
  Speaker 11: clear tension there between his agenda and what he's trying
• 41:21
  Speaker 11: to do with our AI ambitions versus what we're seeing
• 41:25
  Speaker 11: in our energy department, which is actively slowing down our
• 41:28
  Speaker 11: data centre rollout. But it goes beyond that because sovereign
• 41:31
  Speaker 11: data centres are cornerstone to not just our AI future,
• 41:36
  Speaker 11: but pretty much every single one of the government's priority
• 41:38
  Speaker 11: technology list and a lot of our critical infrastructure, including
• 41:42
  Speaker 11: things like cyber security and national security elements to that too.
• 41:45
  Speaker 11: So it's even our national security and cyber ambitions are
• 41:49
  Speaker 11: being held back now by completely dysfunctional energy policy which
• 41:54
  Speaker 11: is unable to keep current demand met in an affordable
• 41:58
  Speaker 11: and reliable way. And you know you put those numbers
• 42:01
  Speaker 11: up there 13 percent next decade but data centre demand
• 42:04
  Speaker 11: is going to increase the current East Coast electricity demand
• 42:08
  Speaker 11: by around 8 percent just in the next four years.
• 42:10
  Speaker 11: And we're struggling to even maintain just current levels of
• 42:13
  Speaker 11: demand let alone increased demand And I'm afraid that we're
• 42:17
  Speaker 11: seeing an active policy within our energy department to jeopardise
• 42:22
  Speaker 11: our data centre rollout, to jeopardise our technology ambitions and future,
• 42:26
  Speaker 11: to jeopardise our national security, all to try and protect
• 42:30
  Speaker 11: these 2030 green targets, which we all know we have
• 42:33
  Speaker 11: to miss anyway.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: We're not going to make them. I mean, the best
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: thing they could do would be to dispatch Bowen to
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: the UN, put Andrew Charlton in the energy portfolio, energy
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: but split environment out. I hate to see those two
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: portfolios together because ideally they should be with separate ministers.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: So there's contestability around the cabinet table. There's not right now.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: And I think Labor's got to have a reckoning that
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: net zero is dead. These 2030 targets are dead. You
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: could have data centres in Australia or you can have renewables,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: but you can't have both.
• 43:10
  Speaker 11: And there's a fundamental mismatch. I mean, they're talking about
• 43:12
  Speaker 11: forcing data centres to underpin new renewables, but it's seven
• 43:16
  Speaker 11: years on average to get a new, say, wind project
• 43:18
  Speaker 11: off the ground. But the data centre type ones for
• 43:21
  Speaker 11: their investment is 18 months. So that just doesn't work.
• 43:24
  Speaker 11: And we're going to slow down. We're going to essentially
• 43:26
  Speaker 11: deliberately lose our place in the AI race and the
• 43:29
  Speaker 11: role we can play there. based on this farcical idea
• 43:33
  Speaker 11: that they can underpin new renewables to support them at
• 43:36
  Speaker 11: some point in the future. And I agree with you.
• 43:38
  Speaker 11: You know, Andrew Charlton seems to be the only Labor
• 43:40
  Speaker 11: minister with any background and experience in actually investing and
• 43:43
  Speaker 11: building business. And we actually need to see a pro-investment,
• 43:46
  Speaker 11: pro-business approach to our energy market for a change.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: And look, it matters, and I'll underscore this for people
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: who might not be that keen on a data centre,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: if we're not in the game on AI, it's about
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: the only thing left that can drive productivity and growth
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: in our budget. It's about the only thing that's on
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: the horizon that can turn around our horror numbers. As
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: you've seen repeatedly this week, whatever the data set that's
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: come out, it's been catastrophic. Last time I spoke to you,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: we talked about $ 4 a litre diesel. Yes, I drive
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: an SUV, so diesel powered, so I have a bit
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: of self-interest here. But everything you get on the shelf
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: at the supermarket generally comes out of a transport sector
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: driven by diesel. Everything you go to eat from a
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: farm is grown by farmers using diesel and it's got
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: to market with diesel. So I think we all should
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: be concerned about diesel and we've got those reports obviously
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: out of the US to say that they're going to
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: stop the export of diesel. What's the latest on?
• 44:46
  Speaker 11: Well, this is probably the most worrying time for Australia's
• 44:48
  Speaker 11: fuel security since the war began. And that's because Australia
• 44:51
  Speaker 11: is actually the largest importer of diesel in the world
• 44:53
  Speaker 11: because of our large agricultural and mining sector. We account
• 44:57
  Speaker 11: for 10% of the world's seaborne diesel demand. And the
• 45:01
  Speaker 11: United States is currently supplying one third of that. And
• 45:03
  Speaker 11: if they go down this path, which it looks likely
• 45:05
  Speaker 11: that they're going to restrict their diesel exports, not only
• 45:07
  Speaker 11: could that We move up to a third of the
• 45:09
  Speaker 11: current supply in the market. But you can see other countries,
• 45:11
  Speaker 11: particularly in Europe and China, follow suit. Russia's already banned
• 45:14
  Speaker 11: its diesel exports. And we're at the end of that chain.
• 45:16
  Speaker 11: We've destroyed our ability. We used to be self-sufficient in
• 45:20
  Speaker 11: all of our fuel and all of our oil and
• 45:22
  Speaker 11: refining to build it, to make it. We're now almost
• 45:25
  Speaker 11: entirely dependent on imports. And it's the entire economy of
• 45:29
  Speaker 11: Australia which is dependent on it. And we now find
• 45:31
  Speaker 11: ourselves in a very vulnerable place. And that's why Minister
• 45:34
  Speaker 11: Bowen's been in Saudi Arabia and India in the last week.
• 45:36
  Speaker 11: It's not because he's there on holiday. They're two of
• 45:38
  Speaker 11: the biggest diesel producers and exporters in the world. And
• 45:42
  Speaker 11: we're back on the begging to her to ask them
• 45:43
  Speaker 11: to keep sending it to us.
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: And we ship off our coal, gas and uranium, but
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: we won't use it here. None of this makes sense.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Sol Kavonic, thank you. As always, depressing but true. We're
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: going to have to break. Kill Richards. Your favourite time
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: of the week? I know, I know, mine too. Let's
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: bring him in. Wordsmith and broadcaster extraordinaire, Kel Richards. Hey, Kel,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: John wants to know about an expression that I'd attribute
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: to Jim Chalmers, whinging and moaning and crying tears this
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: week over the state of the budget, crocodile tears. Where's
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: this one come from?
• 46:23
  Speaker 12: It means hypocrisy. It means pretend sympathy. not real sympathy,
• 46:27
  Speaker 12: but just pretending. It comes from a very ancient mythology.
• 46:32
  Speaker 12: The myth was that when crocodiles gnawed into their prey,
• 46:37
  Speaker 12: they shed tears over the poor animal they were eating. Now,
• 46:40
  Speaker 12: it's just a myth, but crocodiles do shed tears in
• 46:44
  Speaker 12: order to lubricate and cleanse their eyes. And it's just
• 46:47
  Speaker 12: possible that in the ancient world, a traveller saw a
• 46:50
  Speaker 12: crocodile chewing on a passing animal, and at the same time,
• 46:54
  Speaker 12: tears rolling out of its eyes. Hence the birth of
• 46:57
  Speaker 12: this myth, giving us crocodile tears.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: All right, I'll leave that one there. Rod for your
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: own back. Craig's keen on this one.
• 47:07
  Speaker 12: Okay, that means that you've taken some action now which
• 47:11
  Speaker 12: will hurt you later. The word rod in that means
• 47:14
  Speaker 12: the rod or cane with which you've hit people on
• 47:17
  Speaker 12: the back. So it's The idea of punishment, that's discipline
• 47:20
  Speaker 12: that's coming and you'll be hurt by something you've done.
• 47:22
  Speaker 12: It's very, very old, recorded from 1485 in Thomas Mallory.
• 47:28
  Speaker 12: Mallory's Morte d'Arthur is a great legend about King Arthur
• 47:31
  Speaker 12: and Camelot. And before that, it's really lost in the
• 47:34
  Speaker 12: mists of time. So it's a very ancient expression, comes
• 47:37
  Speaker 12: possibly from a time when they believed in corporal punishment
• 47:40
  Speaker 12: of the most cutting type.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: I suppose we've all known a few of these in
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: our lifetime. Cheap skate. Aileen wants to know where this
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: one comes from, please.
• 47:51
  Speaker 12: American, 1894. The cheap part's pretty obvious. The skate has
• 47:55
  Speaker 12: got nothing to do with roller skates or skateboards. It
• 47:58
  Speaker 12: seems to come from a Scottish dialect word, a word
• 48:02
  Speaker 12: to describe someone contemptuously. And in fact, that word still
• 48:06
  Speaker 12: exists in a varied form in Australian English. We talk
• 48:09
  Speaker 12: about a skite. It's the same word. It's speaking contemptuously
• 48:14
  Speaker 12: of someone. And when skate, if you're a cheap skate,
• 48:17
  Speaker 12: that's speaking contemptuously of someone because they're a tightwad.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Tickle pink, says Ant. Where's this one come from, please?
• 48:26
  Speaker 12: This has been around for a long time. And this
• 48:29
  Speaker 12: means that you will be flushed in colour. In fact,
• 48:32
  Speaker 12: there is a suggestion that from the 1800s onwards, it
• 48:34
  Speaker 12: was often used of children. The idea that if you
• 48:37
  Speaker 12: actually tickled small children, they would laugh and giggle and
• 48:40
  Speaker 12: carry on until their faces became flushed. So it was
• 48:44
  Speaker 12: as literal as that in the very early days.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Now, Bruce had one I was really keen on too,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Back in a Jiffy. We won't have time to do that.
• 48:54
  Speaker 12: Next week.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Tune in next week. Bruce, next Wednesday, we'll do Back
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: in a Jiffy. Thank you, Kel. That's terrific. Everyone, send
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: in your words, please. We've got to keep refreshing that list.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Isn't he fantastic? All right, that's it for me. Thank
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: you for your company. I'll be back here tomorrow night
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: at six. Up next, of course, the Bolt Report with
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: James McPherson.