Latest / NOISE vs SIGNAL by Inman / The Agency’s Mauricio Umansky on Launching The ARA and Where Real Estate Goes Next

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The Agency’s Mauricio Umansky on Launching The ARA and Where Real Estate Goes Next · NOISE vs SIGNAL by Inman

0:00
Mauricio Umansky does not do anything small.
0:03
Today we talked to him about everything from
0:06
starting the ARA, NAR's competitor, to his huge
0:09
expansion into New York City and overseas. This
0:13
is a guy you need to watch. Plus, he may eventually
0:16
be running for mayor of LA. Hey, everyone. This
0:19
episode is brought to you by Lofty, the agentic
0:21
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AI doesn't wait to be prompted. It works proactively
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0:31
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and drive more transactions. Lofty turns every
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agent into a top producer. Visit lofty .com to
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see how agentic AI can put your business growth
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on autopilot. Everybody in the business of home
0:47
has a pitch. Almost nobody gets asked a hard
0:50
question. This show fixes that. Welcome to Noise
0:54
vs. Signal. I'm your host, Inman CEO Tom Bohn.
0:57
Each week we sit down with the top producing
0:59
agents, industry CEOs, prop tech founders, and
1:04
the people shaping the future of the business
1:06
of home. Then we break down the week's biggest
1:09
headlines and decide what's noise and what's
1:12
signal. Let's get into it. In January 2024, a
1:18
broker walked onto the Inman Connect stage in
1:21
New York and announced he was building a competitor
1:23
to the NAR. He said he figured the odds were
1:26
pretty small. Today, the American Real Estate
1:29
Association has REMAX on its board. every Compass
1:32
brand enrolling agents, and a former NAR lobbyist
1:35
running government affairs. He also happens to
1:38
run the agency, 104 billion in closed transactions,
1:42
2 ,500 agents, 160 offices, and in 16 countries.
1:48
Mauricio Umansky, welcome to Noise vs. Signal.
1:51
Appreciate having you here. Hey, Tom, how you
1:54
doing? It's a pleasure to be here. I'm excited
1:56
for this conversation. As you know, I've been
1:58
a big supporter of Invent for a long, long time.
2:00
And I think you guys are doing a great job. So
2:02
let's see if we can get the industry a little
2:04
insight as to what's happening. One of the biggest
2:07
challenges with a guest like you is that there's
2:09
so many things that we could talk about, right?
2:11
We could talk about LA politics. We could talk
2:14
about your incredible business. We could talk
2:16
about ARA. I mean, there's so many routes to
2:18
go, but let's talk first about this deal that
2:21
you just completed in New York. That was a huge
2:23
acquisition for you all. Tell me a little bit
2:26
about that. Yeah, we're actually just finalizing
2:29
it this week and hopefully making the transition,
2:31
the full transition next week. I'll be in New
2:33
York next week. We're very excited about it.
2:36
There's still some details to be worked out over
2:38
the next 72 hours. As you know, that final deadline
2:41
is always gets quite interesting, right? So can't
2:44
really disclose the exact details of everything,
2:47
but we're very, very excited. to bring on all
2:51
of the Christie's offices in New York and New
2:53
Jersey and make them part of the agency. They've
2:56
got some great agents there. We're very excited
2:59
about them. And it'll just be a big growth. And
3:02
this coming Monday, we're making the transitions.
3:05
Going to a deal like that, what do you offer
3:08
them differently that Christie's brand couldn't?
3:11
Tell me, what does that look like overall? And
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how did you make that sale? Look, they had their
3:16
own issues with Christie's, right? And so that
3:18
all started already with whatever issues they
3:20
were having, right? That was public knowledge
3:22
and everybody knew that they were having their
3:23
own issues. So, you know, I think that I'm not
3:26
100 % sure that's like, you know, what we're
3:28
offering that Christie's isn't. You know, Christie's
3:30
is a great brand. Sotheby's is a great brand.
3:33
These are all, you know, luxury brands that are
3:35
out there. I mean, I built my company. with the
3:37
intention to compete with Sotheby's and with
3:39
Christie's. I think that they're the oldest brands
3:41
out there in terms of luxury and boutique -y
3:43
type of feeling. Sotheby's has lost out a little
3:46
bit, but still a great brand. And we offer kind
3:50
of very similar stuff. And our network is incredible.
3:53
I think it's the international exposure. We're
3:55
still smaller. We still need to grow a little
3:57
bit more in order to compete with them on their
4:00
global regions. But I think that one of the unique
4:02
things that we have... is because it is built
4:04
new and it is only 12, 13, 14 years old, the
4:08
network is so tight and so connected. It's a
4:11
true collaborative network. The amount of referrals
4:14
that occur, the way that we're able to create
4:16
a web of sales throughout the world is pretty
4:20
awesome and pretty incredible. And I think that
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that is a unique feature that is uncomparable
4:25
with any of the other brands that are out there
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from the perspective of global connectivity.
4:29
I think we do it better than most. Love that.
4:32
So one of the things that one of the comments
4:34
that was picked up in the news was your New York
4:37
partner you're acquiring. They basically said
4:40
this was a choice against corporate Wall Street
4:42
driven model. Right. Is that really the decision
4:46
they're making or is it really more about, you
4:48
know, value pitches and splits and the tech platform
4:51
and stuff like that? Yeah, I don't know. He's
4:54
a great guy. He's a great business guy. I've
4:56
enjoyed getting to know him and that group over
4:58
there. You know, I don't want to make a comment
5:01
as to what their side of it is. But I think it
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has more to do with just building a company that,
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you know, they want to be a part of a boutique.
5:08
They want to be a part of a private company.
5:10
They definitely have said that, you know, not
5:12
a huge conglomerate. There's definitely... Pluses
5:15
and minuses, advantages and disadvantages of
5:17
being of different companies. That's why we say
5:20
there's 31 flavors of ice cream in an ice cream
5:22
shop, right? And not one flavor is good for all.
5:25
You know me. I think you've heard me a hundred
5:27
times. I will never, ever put down my competitors.
5:32
I think we all deliver great things. I really
5:34
do. And, you know, I like to concentrate on what
5:37
I do great. They do a lot of things great. They're
5:39
huge. I mean, that size of that network is amazing.
5:42
And it's fantastic. But, you know, we do our
5:44
own things great. And so there's different flavors
5:46
for different people. And I like my flavor. You
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know, so you're adding 1 ,200 agents, 26 offices
5:54
in a single deal. You are known for that high
5:57
-end boutique culture. Can that survive that
5:59
type of growth and that type of ramp up? A hundred
6:03
percent. High -end luxury, you know, A, it's
6:05
a Christie's office. They're already high -end
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and they're already boutique, right? We're not
6:08
taking a... My God, I'll pick on somebody that
6:11
doesn't exist anymore. Well, we're not taking
6:13
a purple bricks office and converting them into
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a luxury brand. You know, we're not taking a
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EXP or, you know, a mass brand and trying to
6:23
convert them into a luxury brand. They are a
6:25
luxury brand, you know, so that can definitely
6:27
continue to exist. But, you know, boutiqueness
6:29
and luxury and that kind of white glove service,
6:32
that's a service. That's a service that anybody
6:33
can deliver. It's not about size. It's not about
6:36
4 ,000 agents or 10 ,000 agents. Depending on
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how you manage the culture of the company, you
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can continue to deliver it. And so that's the
6:43
way I see it. It's just a question of how do
6:45
you deliver it and how you act. Do you start
6:48
creating a bunch of red tape? Are you listening
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to your agents? Are you listening to your local
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managers? Are you willing to make changes or
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are you hardheaded? You know, when you get very
6:57
corporate, it's one way, you know, you're going,
6:59
you're moving. From our perspective, we're not
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corporate. You know, I've always said it like
7:03
I can be going down one direction one day. hear
7:05
an opinion that changes my mind and will change
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direction this next day. I am not afraid of making
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a mistake and I am not afraid of admitting that
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I made a mistake in order to change directions.
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And I think that that's the difference between
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a boutique kind of privately held company versus
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a corporate public market company. Everything
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you have going on, I mean, growing this amazing
7:25
business, you came off of a popular Netflix show.
7:28
Did Planet Earth really need another trade association
7:31
in real estate? Yes, we do. And we still need
7:37
a trade association. How did I know that would
7:38
be your answer? And, you know, I've said it a
7:42
couple of times. This was not meant to be compete.
7:46
Did we need another trade association? No, we
7:48
didn't. But why did we need another trade association?
7:51
Because our current existing trade association
7:53
is not delivering for the realtors, what they
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call realtors, right? I could use the word realtor
8:00
because I'm talking about the other trade association,
8:02
NAR. And they're not delivering for us. They
8:05
really are not. You know, it all started with
8:07
tremendous frustration with the Spitzer Burnett
8:10
case. You know, when they made that settlement,
8:13
they looked after themselves and they stopped
8:15
looking after the brokerage firms, right? They
8:18
took care of the small brokerage firms, okay?
8:21
Under $2 billion, I think it was, or whatever
8:23
the number was. But the larger brokerage firms,
8:26
which are the ones that are carrying the majority
8:28
of the real estate agents, the realtors. that
8:30
are paying the dues, that are paying for all
8:33
of these to happen, they didn't, they left us
8:34
out hanging high and dry to write huge checks,
8:38
right? And in some cases, making it very difficult
8:41
for us to survive that, particularly in a time
8:43
where the market has gotten tough. We're in a
8:45
low market and it's very difficult. I'm still
8:48
paying every single month. You know, I worked
8:50
out a payment plan. I pay every month to the
8:52
Spitzer -Burnett case. And that's a very frustrating
8:54
thing. Does that sit on this new regime? I mean,
8:58
Nakia's come in. It seems to me that I'm an outsider
9:01
and someone who has been in associations. They're
9:03
taking all the right steps. What are the right
9:05
steps? I mean, the right steps, you know, to
9:07
me would be to say to the brokerage firms, hey,
9:10
guys, we screwed up. We screwed up on that one.
9:13
And there's a bunch of other issues, but let's
9:15
talk about that issue for one second. We screwed
9:17
up. We should have protected you guys. What can
9:19
we do to protect you? Can we get on a payment
9:21
plan to help pay you back? Like you want to correct
9:23
it? Correct it. Don't just say and then not do.
9:26
Okay. You know, the clear cooperation policy,
9:29
they continue to stand behind that policy. That
9:32
is a policy. No one really follows that though
9:33
anymore. Would you agree? Well. That's another
9:36
problem. If you're not going to follow it and
9:38
you have a policy, then isn't that just a show
9:39
of losing complete strength and hold on everything?
9:42
And by the way, they talk about this policy to
9:44
police it. They stopped following it. People
9:46
stopped following it when they lost respect for
9:48
NAR. They stopped following it six months ago,
9:51
eight months ago. It's a new thing where we stopped
9:53
following it, right? Until Robert Refkin said,
9:55
you know, I'm not paying attention to this. I'm
9:57
doing this thing. But I'll tell you where they
9:58
still follow it and what we still not allowed
10:00
or what we still don't have, which is where I'm
10:03
going with this. They allow, clear cooperation
10:06
policy allows office exclusives, okay? If you
10:11
allow office exclusives, then what are you doing
10:14
to the independent agents and the independent
10:16
brokerage firms and the mom and pops and the
10:18
family places and the smaller guys that are out
10:21
there hustling, okay? And they are losing agents
10:25
to these big companies because they now don't
10:28
have access to these off -market listings, right?
10:31
And the off -market listing is going to exist,
10:33
period, end of story. Okay. This idea that it
10:36
shouldn't exist. Well, that's why you should
10:37
put it on the MLS. Great. The agents, the sellers
10:41
don't always want their property on the MLS.
10:44
Period. End of story. Okay. And as long as they
10:47
don't want it, and there's a small percentage
10:48
and it might be tiny, but by the way, that tiny
10:50
percentage, when you go into luxury grows, it
10:53
becomes a bigger percentage because the people
10:55
that don't want it in the, in the MLS or in the
10:57
public world primarily are more luxury driven.
11:01
Primarily. I'm not going to say that's all, but
11:03
it's primarily. There's a place to do that now,
11:05
right? I mean, you can do that now. I mean, nothing's
11:08
stopping that. Where's the place? There are local
11:11
laws or state laws that allows you to hold back
11:13
names depending on the individual state or a
11:16
certain type of private data, depending on where
11:18
it's at. How do you share it with agents, though?
11:20
But how do you share that with other brokerage
11:22
firms? How do you share that? How do you collaborate?
11:26
Right. Help me understand this from a layman's
11:28
point of view then. Again, I don't have a dog
11:30
in this hunt. I get it. So if you have a private
11:34
listings network, right, in the truest sense
11:38
of it, and your goal is to put as many of your
11:40
listings through that because there is a benefit,
11:42
right, so that you could hopefully collaborate
11:44
with one of your brokers that are connected to
11:47
your organization. There is a true benefit to
11:50
that, right? Well, what if that's not what you're
11:52
trying to do? What if what you're trying to do
11:54
is... have a private listing that is open to
11:57
every brokerage firm. Totally different. Like
12:00
we're talking about two different things then,
12:01
right? No, we're not. We're not talking about
12:03
two different things. Clear cooperation policy
12:05
forces it, okay? Forces it to be an office exclusive,
12:10
not to be a collaborative private listing, okay?
12:15
I have never stood for, I have never ever in
12:18
my life said that a... Office exclusive is the
12:20
way to go so that you can double end it. That
12:23
is assuming that brokerage firm wants to do is
12:25
double ending it. I am not for that. That is
12:28
not what I am about it at all. What I am saying
12:31
is that there is a group of people that require
12:33
off market listings. And those off market listings
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should be shared with every single real estate
12:39
agent in the country. Love it. How do we make
12:41
sure that that is actually what happened? Because
12:43
one study that I just saw, it was like something
12:45
like 78 % of one group's private listings were
12:49
all double -ended. By eliminating clear cooperation
12:52
policy, by allowing other firms to open up MLSs
12:56
that house private listings, that share with
12:59
everybody. It's all about collaboration. It's
13:01
all about collaboration. It's the clear cooperation
13:04
policy is what does not allow that to happen.
13:08
That is what that's for. Does ARA? Well, the
13:12
ARA posted and we shared it with you guys and
13:14
we shared it with Nikia. We shared it with NAR
13:16
prior to talking about it. We are currently calling
13:19
the clear collaboration policy, which is precisely
13:22
that. Collaborate and share with every single
13:26
licensed agent in the country. If you want to
13:30
know about it, you should have a database that
13:31
allows you to know about it. And that database
13:34
couldn't be the MLSs. The 500 MLS could be anything.
13:37
It certainly could be. I mean, but now open it
13:39
up to competition. Let the MLS be whatever, you
13:41
know, whoever delivers the best product. Yeah.
13:44
Okay. Right. I mean, NAR has a three -way agreement
13:47
where you have to be a member of this. You have
13:49
to be a member of that. You have to be a member
13:50
of that. Another, you know, where again, you're
13:52
eliminating free competition. Just be the best.
13:55
Just be the best. You already have the advantage
13:58
of being the best. Just go be the best. It's
14:00
amazing. You know, when we were in San Diego,
14:02
this topic of private listings is so vitriolic.
14:05
People are absolutely taking it personally, you
14:08
know, across the industry. And like, I'm wondering
14:10
who's going to take the reins of this and the
14:13
leadership to get us to a place where it's no
14:16
longer this point of contention. I am. I love
14:20
it. That's all. The podcast is over, guys. That's
14:26
it. Look, I've been in the association world.
14:29
I grew up through the association world. It's
14:31
not easy to get them going. It takes years and
14:33
years and years to really kind of move that rock
14:36
up a hill. And, you know, you've had some really
14:39
impressive wins. A couple of large groups on
14:42
there. The Compass deal. You pulled a lobbyist.
14:46
You had an executive director for a little bit,
14:48
but I think that's kind of stopped for now. What
14:50
does this look like the next two years? Because
14:52
obviously there's some big splashy moments. Are
14:55
you able to continue that momentum? Look, it's
14:57
going to be hard, right? I think that as long
14:59
as we deliver, continue to deliver some wins,
15:01
and as long as we're able to continue to raise
15:03
some money, we're going to be able to continue
15:05
to deliver. I think that the current and existing
15:08
association is 120 years old. At what point do
15:11
you finally say, you know what, I need something
15:13
new, something that's different, something that
15:15
doesn't have a thousand people on their board
15:17
or more than a thousand people on their board.
15:20
I don't know how you make decisions. I don't
15:22
know how you move. I'm trying to make an industry
15:23
better and I'm trying to give back to an industry
15:26
that gave me a lot. Okay. I've been a very good
15:31
beneficiary of this industry. I love my industry.
15:34
Big into ethics. I'm big into integrity. I'm
15:37
big into all of those things and trying to improve
15:39
the industry. One of the things that I want to
15:41
do is I want to make licensing more difficult.
15:43
I want to make continuing education more difficult.
15:45
It's very easy to become a realtor. There's virtually
15:48
no barrier to entry. Talk to me about that because
15:51
I hear that come up quite a bit. I think that,
15:54
you know, we have to be held to a larger, more
15:56
accountability. I think that we have to be better
15:59
advisors. I mean, we are. for the most part,
16:02
handling our agents, our clients' largest transaction
16:06
and most important financial transaction of their
16:08
lives. And the barriers to entry are minimal.
16:12
The fact that we get compared to used car salesmen,
16:15
the fact that we get compared to, like that to
16:17
me is a very bad thing. I think that we have
16:22
to improve the industry. We have to improve the
16:24
reputation of us. I think that we should be real
16:27
estate advisors and not real estate salespeople.
16:30
You know, I'm all for full disclosure. I'm all
16:33
for giving as much information to a buyer as
16:35
possible and to a seller as possible. But we
16:38
just have to raise the bar. We got to raise the
16:40
bar a little bit and improve our industry. So,
16:43
you know, I'm for that. You know, I think that,
16:45
you know, continuing education is critical. I
16:47
think licensing should be more difficult. I think
16:50
AI is going to change the world tremendously
16:52
and make us more efficient. So I think you actually,
16:54
by the virtue of AI, you're going to, it's not
16:56
going to replace the real estate agent. It's
16:59
not that an AI robot is going to replace the
17:01
real estate agent, but it's going to take us
17:02
from whatever the number is today. There's mixed
17:04
numbers, you know, 1 .4 million, 1 .6 million,
17:07
1 .2 million, whatever the number is, who cares?
17:09
Right around there. Are we going down or are
17:12
we going up? We're going to go down. Where is
17:13
that number? We're going to go down, 100%. And
17:16
you know why? Because AI is going to make us
17:18
more efficient. Okay. And, you know, if I can
17:22
handle today 30 transactions and AI is going
17:24
to allow me to handle 60 transactions a year
17:26
or 90 transactions a year, I'll be able to take
17:29
on more listings. So the top end of the listing
17:31
of agents are going to get more listings. And
17:34
that's going to take people out of the business.
17:35
The people that are handling buyers because of
17:38
AI are going to be able to handle more buyers.
17:40
And so it doesn't matter where you're at. You're
17:42
going to become more efficient. You're going
17:43
to have more time on your hands. We're going
17:44
to become way more efficient. And that's going
17:46
to shrink the industry. Now, as it shrinks. let's
17:49
make sure that the continuing education, getting
17:51
licensed, is a little bit more difficult so that
17:54
we have a higher end advisor and we have true
17:56
real estate advisors in the industry instead
17:58
of just real estate salespeople or realtors.
18:00
Yeah. What do you think in terms of continuing
18:02
education, where do you think we're all missing
18:04
the boat? Like what skill sets do you think a
18:07
realtor today, you know, obviously you see some
18:09
of the best people in the market. What's the
18:11
missing thread? You know, one of the things that
18:13
we miss is strength in the ethics world. I think
18:18
that that's And not only ethics from the perspective
18:21
of the consumer, but just within our own industry.
18:25
You know, one of the things that I'm very proud
18:27
of at the agency is that we have a very high
18:29
spirit of collaboration, right? You look at my
18:32
office right now, it's all glass. Most offices,
18:35
people hoard their listings, they hold their
18:37
clients. Why? Because they're afraid of somebody
18:39
in their own office that's going to go steal
18:40
their lead, going to go steal their client, et
18:42
cetera, et cetera. So even just ethics within
18:44
ourselves, the way that we treat ourselves in
18:46
the industry, I mean, we're all competing. There's
18:48
no question we're all competing. We're all hustling.
18:51
You know, that will never change because we work
18:54
for commissions. But if we can do that a little
18:56
bit more elegantly, share more, collaborate more,
18:59
as you talked about private listings, share them,
19:02
don't hoard them. You know, talk about that,
19:04
make that wider, make that more open. It's not
19:07
about double lending. I don't care about double
19:09
lending, okay? It's about sharing. Knowledge,
19:12
knowledge about the industry, about, you know,
19:14
like more mathematical knowledge, really being
19:17
able to advise on local regimes, on things that
19:21
are happening in the real estate industry. I
19:22
don't think most real estate agents today know
19:25
a lot about what's in Los Angeles, what's going
19:28
on with ULA. What is the mansion tax? What's
19:31
happening with housing? Is it more of how can
19:33
we make it more like really educating us to understand
19:36
what's happening in our industry? I can't tell
19:39
you how good. In New York, you know, but everywhere
19:44
in construction, where are we building? How are
19:46
we rezoning? What is the zoning laws? Where is
19:49
zoning happening? How do we create more housing
19:51
affordability? How do we do things better? You
19:54
know, we just have to be more educated on our
19:56
industry. It's not just about knowing the contract.
19:59
We need to know the contract perfectly. But legally,
20:02
laws, they're changing, all of these things.
20:04
We need to be way more educated. Okay, so that
20:07
brings us to a good point. Since Spencer Pratt
20:09
took the big L, do you regret not jumping in?
20:12
I always wait. Do you mean for me to run into
20:14
the race? Yeah. There was no chance that I was
20:16
prepared or ready to run into this race. I had
20:19
zero chance fundraising, you know, with what
20:22
I have going on in my life right now, with everything
20:24
I'm doing right now. I mean, you just said it,
20:27
you know, we're up to 175 offices to be exact.
20:30
We're opening up 30 offices a year. ARA is a
20:33
passion project of mine. I'm into it right now.
20:36
If I were to run, I would have to do, I'm open
20:38
to it, but I have to do it when I'm ready to
20:41
do it and when I've done proper fundraising and
20:43
I have an opportunity to go out there because
20:45
to go beat a Democrat today, and I'm a registered
20:48
independent to be super clear. I do believe in
20:51
the middle. I think the middle is what we've
20:53
all lost. I think Republicans need to go to the
20:55
middle. I think Democrats need to go to the middle
20:57
and we need to find that middle. But to go speak
20:59
on a whole campaign about what that middle means.
21:02
you know it's a lot it's a full -time job and
21:05
there was no way i was ready for that so no i
21:07
don't regret it so so maybe in four years we're
21:11
going to see umansky for mayor Let's see what
21:14
happens in the next four years. I mean, it's
21:16
again, it's not a job that I, it's kind of like
21:18
the ARA. It's not a job that I want, but if I'm
21:21
in the right position and the right person and
21:23
there's nobody better, we might have to jump
21:24
in to it. Well, you certainly have a number of
21:27
really good platforms to launch it. And look,
21:28
if Arnold Schwarzenegger can be your governor,
21:31
anyone can make it happen, right? I think he
21:35
was great. Yeah, he's an interesting guy. All
21:38
right, this is the part of this podcast where
21:40
we do noise versus signal. I say a thing, you
21:42
say noise or signal, and then kind of one sentence
21:45
why. You ready? I'm going to warm you up and
21:47
make it easy for you, all right? So the first
21:49
one is signal or noise, the clear cooperation
21:53
policy is dead and will be replaced. Oh, that's
21:57
a good one. The clear cooperation is dead and
21:59
will be replaced. Signal. Signal. All right.
22:03
So you think that'll happen? I think it will
22:05
be replaced. I think it has to change. There's
22:07
too much happening. And like, I mean, we talked
22:09
about it today. It should be more collaborative
22:11
and not be pro large, you know, big, big business.
22:15
As it reached today, it's pro big business. Signal
22:17
or noise, 100 ,000 ARA members. Signal. Signal,
22:23
baby. We are definitely going to hit 100 ,000.
22:26
There's no question about it. I love it. All
22:30
right. It gets a little harder. AI replacing
22:32
the buyer's agent. A little bit of both. Again,
22:35
I think AI is going to make us more efficient.
22:37
I don't think it's going to replace us, but it's
22:39
going to make us way more efficient. The MLS
22:41
existing in 2030. As it stands today, no. Noise.
22:46
There will be a new MLS. Unified to a couple
22:48
or one or what? You don't know. There's going
22:51
to be changes. There's going to be changes. Okay.
22:54
Luxury real estate is recession proof. Negative
22:57
noise. Nothing is recession proof. How about,
23:02
all right, here we go. 6 .7 % mortgage rates.
23:06
Signal. It's very likely. Yeah. I don't think
23:10
mortgage rates are high. That's my personal opinion.
23:13
I think that we just have to get accustomed to
23:14
what a mortgage rate is. I think 6 .7 % is a
23:17
little bit high. Five, six. That's not a high
23:20
interest rate. If you look at interest rates
23:21
in the past, where sevens, eights, nines, tens,
23:24
et cetera, et cetera. If you look at most countries,
23:26
we got accustomed to two or 3%. That's not a
23:29
healthy economy. Your interest rates, in my opinion,
23:32
to be healthy. boosted economy should be somewhere
23:35
between four and six percent four and a half
23:37
to six percent okay last one and there's not
23:39
still run a good business still run a good government
23:41
because you still need to run you need to take
23:43
care of the entire country so you need to have
23:45
both there's not many people i can ask this last
23:47
question to you are one of the very few noise
23:50
or signal reality tv as a recruiting tool Signal,
23:55
it definitely works. It's a great advertising
23:57
tool. It's a great marketing tool. It's a great
23:59
way to promote. It definitely works, but then
24:01
you've got to have substance behind you and you've
24:03
got to be able to run a real business and not
24:04
just run a reality show. Mauricio Umansky, you're
24:08
an incredible guest. A hell of a lot of fun.
24:10
I can't wait to talk to you live and in person
24:12
again here soon. Thank you so much for joining
24:14
us today on Noise vs. Signal. Thank you, Tom.
24:17
I appreciate that. I had a ton of fun. Thanks
24:20
for listening to Noise vs. Signal. Follow us
24:22
on Instagram at Inmanews for more conversations
24:26
and industry insights. And be sure to subscribe
24:29
wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss
24:32
an episode. I'll see you next time.