Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #049-Best of - Part 1

Transcript

#049-Best of - Part 1 · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Chin and his wife Tria Baser Haley approached me
• 0:27
  about doing a film project, like a documentary film, like
• 0:30
  a feature and which is a big opportunity for me as.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: A professional climber.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: And I was like, Oh, that'd be great, Like that's cool,
• 0:36
  But the only thing that I cared about filming on
• 0:38
  or making a movie about, is El Cab And in
• 0:40
  a way, I was like, it's kind of an amazing
• 0:43
  opportunity to do justice to El Cab, right, you know,
• 0:46
  because if any climb in the whole world deserves the
• 0:49
  movie about it, it's El Cap. I mean, it's the
• 0:50
  most beautiful wall in the world. It's like, that is
• 0:53
  a pinnacle climbing achievement that you know, should be documented
• 0:56
  in a in a good ways. If it's ever going
• 0:59
  to be filmed, should be done right, you know. And
• 1:01
  so I kind of took it as a cool opportunity
• 1:04
  to you know, combine my long term dream with this big,
• 1:08
  you know, professional opportunity, and in some ways it was
• 1:12
  good to have a little bit of it's not added pressure,
• 1:14
  because I mean they didn't care about what I climbed.
• 1:16
  They just wanted to make a film with me, and
• 1:17
  I was the one that was like, we're doing it
• 1:19
  on al cap because that's what I want to do.
• 1:21
  And they're like sweet because obviously that's a you know,
• 1:23
  very very photogenic wall. But but it was a little
• 1:26
  bit good for me to have a little extra, you know,
• 1:30
  to actually go and start working on it, because you know,
• 1:33
  without having ever talked to anyone about it for years,
• 1:35
  I just kind of sat on it as like, oh,
• 1:36
  it's too big, it's too big, I don't know. And
• 1:37
  then once I started talking to my friends about it
• 1:39
  and it became like a film project. And then once
• 1:42
  it was once we were filming, then I started talking
• 1:44
  to my friends more about it, and then it became
• 1:47
  more real to me than I actually worked on.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: This is happening.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: And then I started the real process of like, okay,
• 1:52
  I'm working on it, this is what I'm doing.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: And then I did it.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: And you have this you have a very hangdog, loose
• 1:59
  like kind of response to all this, like, as I recall,
• 2:05
  like when you get to the top, you're like, yeah,
• 2:06
  I did, It's cool, all right, you know what's next?
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: No?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: No, I mean of everything I've climbed into my life,
• 2:14
  getting to the top, l CAP. I was glowing for
• 2:16
  even I mean even right now, I'm still like pretty zyged.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: I mean it's pretty amazing. But you have I mean
• 2:20
  you have this nickname, right like no big deal.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Like Alex, no big deal.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't come up right right, I'm sure you didn't,
• 2:25
  you know, no, but ol CAP.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Was very meaningful to me for sure. I think it's
• 2:32
  probably the first thing I've done in climbing that I'm
• 2:34
  that I'm really proud of.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: So what is the what does the physical training look
• 2:39
  like for you beyond just the climbing itself, Like, do
• 2:42
  you what other kind of prep do you do?
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, basically climbing and in climbing specific training, which
• 2:48
  is like finger boarding, like hanging from small edges and
• 2:51
  systematic ways different grips to I set your fingers and
• 2:54
  then opposition stuff, you know, so like working your pushing
• 2:57
  muscles instead of you're pulling muscles just to keep from
• 2:59
  getting in. And then I was actually doing a fair
• 3:02
  amount of stretching before all CAP, just because one of
• 3:05
  the key, uh, one of the hardest parts on the
• 3:08
  crux is this big karate kick to the left with
• 3:11
  you know, it's just this crazy maneuver where you have
• 3:13
  to put your foot like way over there, and so
• 3:16
  as I got more flexible, that that became more secure.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But finger pull ups, yeah, all that kind of stuff. Yeah.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: But I mean for the six months I guess preceding
• 3:28
  the actual reel, so maybe the five months preceding the
• 3:30
  real solo, I was, I was, as I call it
• 3:33
  on the program, you know, so I was I was
• 3:34
  getting like a weekly massage to.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Help with recovery.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: My diet was was like pretty locked and I basically
• 3:40
  didn't eat any sugar or anything. I had no supplemental
• 3:42
  dessert stuff for you know, five months, I was basically
• 3:46
  eating vegan diet but with eggs still, but very clean,
• 3:50
  very wholesome, like not eating out that much, just like
• 3:53
  you know, eating rice and vegetable type meals. And just
• 3:55
  like I was, I was probably the leanest I've ever been.
• 3:58
  But part of that because I was doing a lot
• 4:00
  of exercise, so I was also just.
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: Learning a lot.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But I think when I when I sent the free Rudder,
• 4:06
  when when I actually presell it all cap, I was
• 4:08
  probably three or four pounds lighter than I normally am.
• 4:11
  But part of us just from all the hiking and
• 4:12
  stuff too. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I
• 4:15
  was very fit.
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Actually I just said I was in New York for
• 4:19
  last couple days.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I was climbing with one of the cameramen, one of
• 4:22
  the Verite filmmaker guys that was shooting with me for
• 4:24
  the actual ascent, and so he was the guy that
• 4:26
  walked to the base with me and then was also
• 4:28
  on the summit. Basically he filmed me taking off the
• 4:30
  bottom and then he ran around and made it to
• 4:31
  the top, and then he was on top when I
• 4:33
  got there, which is pretty cool, but it sky clear,
• 4:36
  and so I was climbing in the gym with him
• 4:37
  because he's a rock climber also, and he was like, oh,
• 4:40
  when we saw you in the spring, like yeah, we
• 4:43
  all we're all like, whoa, he looks fit, like, you know,
• 4:46
  he's been training, which I mean, I'm always climbing and
• 4:49
  always training to some extent, but it was for me
• 4:51
  a different level, like.
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: A level of focus and specificity for that particular well.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: And I think because I cared about the objective so
• 4:58
  much more, I was willing to really you know, people
• 5:01
  were you know, offering you cookies or something You're like, nah,
• 5:04
  I don't need that, you know, like I've got a goal, and.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: So what does it all mean to you?
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: Like it's it's been a moment, you know, since that occurred,
• 5:11
  like with a little time and perspective, like, you know,
• 5:15
  how do you think about it, and like what is
• 5:17
  the significance of that for you?
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I think I might need another moment,
• 5:21
  you know. Yeah, It's funny because I'm still talking about
• 5:24
  it a lot, and the film project is still ongoing,
• 5:26
  and I've been doing a lot of talks around OKAP
• 5:29
  and so it still feels pretty fresh for me, even
• 5:31
  though it's been six seven months now.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: But I don't know.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I added a couple of chapters to my books, so
• 5:37
  there'll be a revised edition of my book coming out, right,
• 5:39
  and so I've been writing a lot about it and editing.
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: It's like I'm still very much in the world a
• 5:43
  free writer, and so I don't know, I mean, but
• 5:47
  it's it's definitely the biggest goal or project I've ever
• 5:50
  had in climbing. Yeah, you know, it's definitely, well.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: I think it holds significance for the sport in general.
• 5:55
  I mean, it certainly raises awareness about what you guys do,
• 5:59
  and and you know, I think it allows people to
• 6:02
  have a level of appreciation that maybe you know, they
• 6:06
  don't have because it's kind of a it's this weird,
• 6:07
  mysterious subculture.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, any non climber can definitely walk into so
• 6:11
  many valley and look at the walls and just think, oh,
• 6:13
  my goodness, right, like that is outrageous. I mean, and
• 6:16
  I kind of feel the same way about it. I
• 6:17
  mean I was back in you Somebody in the Fall
• 6:20
  and I look up at El Cap and honestly, it
• 6:22
  doesn't you know, even having climbed without a rope, now
• 6:25
  it still looks so crazy, Like what an amazing wall,
• 6:28
  Like that's so cool.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: I mean do you think, like, you know, when I
• 6:31
  was fifteen or whatever, like, do you think back to
• 6:34
  that young kid and think what would he think of
• 6:37
  what you?
• 6:38
  Speaker 7: Yeah?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, ten or fifteen years ago. The first
• 6:40
  time I looked at El Cap, I thought it looked
• 6:42
  totally crazy. And now I mean it looks a little
• 6:45
  bit less so, but you still look at it and
• 6:46
  you're like, that's an intimidating wall.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Like that is a big crazy wall.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like, yeah, I mean you see people up
• 6:51
  there and it's like little tiny dots and you're just like, wow,
• 6:53
  that's really big.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: Right, it is a crazy man? Yeah, I mean what
• 6:58
  is is? What do you think is like behind it?
• 7:01
  Like what's driving you? What is the what's the motivation
• 7:04
  is it?
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: Is it love?
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: Is it a is it a sense of adventure? Is
• 7:08
  it a competitiveness?
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: What's the psychology behind what motivates you to do all this?
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, it's it's a lot of things,
• 7:17
  I guess. I mean, part of it.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Is definitely trying to see what I can do, what
• 7:22
  I'm capable of. I mean, especially with all cap is.
• 7:25
  It was something that I felt like I was maybe
• 7:27
  uniquely capable of doing in this generation at least. I mean,
• 7:30
  I'm sure people will do it in the future more
• 7:33
  and you know, it might not be that crazy in
• 7:34
  twenty years, but but at this point in time, I
• 7:37
  was like, if anyone is going to do this, I
• 7:39
  think it could be me, if if I'd apply myself
• 7:42
  to it and if I really care about it, and
• 7:44
  you know, being the first to do something like that,
• 7:46
  I mean, was that that hasn't always been a huge
• 7:49
  motivator for me for various projects, but for all cap
• 7:52
  I mean, I did kind of I did kind of
• 7:54
  want that, right, and I was like, I mean, you
• 7:55
  look at that wall and you're just like, it's so proud. Yeah,
• 7:59
  you know, I'd spent all my years of climbing looking
• 8:02
  at it as the ultimate objective, like the pinnacle of
• 8:05
  rock climbing, and I was like that, could you know
• 8:06
  I could do that?
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: That could be me? And so then you know, I
• 8:10
  sort of felt obligated to try.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: It's an extraordinary accomplishment this movie, and it's a very
• 8:15
  delicate tightrope walk because this simple fact that you're present
• 8:21
  around him inevitably influences him, and that's something you explore
• 8:27
  in the movie and trying to remain adequately removed so
• 8:31
  he has the space to do what he does and
• 8:34
  in the way that he aspires to do it, while
• 8:38
  also trying to, you know, responsibly document it so you
• 8:41
  can tell the story. I mean, it's like a little
• 8:43
  BIG's cube, you know, to try to solve that. And
• 8:46
  I love how you kind of break the fourth wall
• 8:48
  with that. I mean, you bring the filmmaker and the
• 8:50
  filmmaking process into the actual narrative of the movie, and
• 8:54
  that really elevates the compelling nature of the story that
• 8:59
  you're trying to tell. It's like that physics thing, like
• 9:01
  the simple observation of a sub atomic particle is going
• 9:06
  to you know, change its position in nature, right, And
• 9:09
  that's a micro example of what you are experiencing just
• 9:13
  trying to be there. And I don't want to, you know,
• 9:16
  spoil it for people that haven't seen it, but that
• 9:18
  gets played out, you know, in a in a pretty
• 9:21
  interesting way.
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah. No, I think you nailed it.
• 9:25
  Speaker 8: I mean, it's a lot also about respect for the
• 9:30
  craft and the athlete and you know, I mean you
• 9:35
  you as an athlete.
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: You mean, you know.
• 9:38
  Speaker 8: That you don't want to like take away from the
• 9:45
  whole inspiration of the film, you know, by being there
• 9:50
  and filming him. It's always been a conundrum in my
• 9:54
  field of work, you know, because especially in climbing and
• 9:58
  probably you know, surfing, and there this whole idea of
• 10:01
  purity right of the of why you do it.
• 10:05
  Speaker 9: But it was interesting because that decision to include the filmmakers,
• 10:09
  you know, it was a hard one and it was
• 10:12
  one of those things that we had to see if
• 10:15
  we could make it work in a true way on
• 10:18
  different levels, right.
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: And without it?
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: And without it you did you did a cut without
• 10:27
  that to see how that Yeah.
• 10:29
  Speaker 9: It was always about degree with the filmmakers, like how
• 10:31
  much do we put in? Like and also what is
• 10:35
  it really about?
• 10:36
  Speaker 10: You know, so it's.
• 10:39
  Speaker 9: It's not about the people are interested in how we
• 10:41
  did it right, Like that would be like the clear
• 10:44
  one reason why you include them, because people want to
• 10:47
  see these guys hanging on ropes and they're like, how
• 10:49
  did they do this? How did they do this? It
• 10:50
  was often a really big question to marror it wherever
• 10:52
  we like they're like, so what the first fourth person
• 10:54
  was filming it? And you're like, no, they were filming themselves.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but what's relevant about breaking that for well, I'm
• 11:00
  bringing the filmmakers into it is this question of purity,
• 11:03
  like what does it mean to do this from uh,
• 11:06
  you know, a pure place of of of of the heart.
• 11:09
  And you're Jimmy, You're like struggling with that because you
• 11:13
  have these conflicting drives right to respect what Alex is
• 11:18
  trying to do and also to have some fidelity to
• 11:21
  the creative process of telling an amazing story that will
• 11:24
  inspire millions of people.
• 11:26
  Speaker 8: And the ethical questions of.
• 11:27
  Speaker 10: The ethical questions of filming him.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Causes right to die?
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what does that mean?
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: And what you're shouldering this incredible ethical conundrum, this burden
• 11:39
  of being responded not responsible necessarily, but a participant in
• 11:44
  something that could be fatal.
• 11:47
  Speaker 9: And that seemed essential to include because it also gets
• 11:51
  to the existential heart of the movie itself, right, because
• 11:57
  in dealing with that ethical question about how what is
• 12:00
  our responsibility in this situation? You have to stop and
• 12:04
  think about all the worst case scenarios and then think
• 12:06
  about the reasons why you would make a film like
• 12:08
  this and like what is it? Is it justifiable?
• 12:10
  Speaker 10: Like is that worthwhile?
• 12:13
  Speaker 9: And you know, it gets to then that idea of
• 12:15
  Alex living a life of intention and every day is
• 12:19
  exactly what he's wanted, what he wants to do. He's
• 12:22
  thought deeply about his own mortality and his own death,
• 12:24
  and he chooses to do this, and you know, and
• 12:30
  for us that that that idea, like a life of intention,
• 12:33
  makes it worthwhile. Right, Clearly, we thought he would not
• 12:37
  get hurt.
• 12:37
  Speaker 10: We trusted him deeply.
• 12:38
  Speaker 9: We trusted him to make the right decisions and not
• 12:41
  to climb, you know, like you see in the film
• 12:42
  he decides not to climb, but it was you know,
• 12:48
  including the crew is a way to get there to
• 12:50
  talk about this and also, you know what is has
• 12:56
  always been a solo endeavor for Alex. Like he's in
• 12:59
  a van. He gets up and he goes and does
• 13:01
  this and no one knows about it. Maybe someone later,
• 13:03
  you know, reports it on a climbing blog. His greatest
• 13:08
  ree solo of his life ended up being about a
• 13:12
  connection rather than being isolated.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 13:15
  Speaker 9: He had his best friends next to him for a
• 13:17
  year and a half, training alongside him, giving him feedback,
• 13:22
  trying to refine their shots while he's refining his moves,
• 13:26
  and all saying like, we're never going to ask you
• 13:28
  whether or not you're going to actually climb, and we
• 13:31
  like you for who you are. You know, you're you,
• 13:34
  and we're still here, and any of this woman who
• 13:38
  entered his life, who I think, for probably the first
• 13:41
  time in his life, said I'm going to tell you
• 13:44
  how I feel about this, but I still love you,
• 13:46
  you know, and I'm not going I'm going to try
• 13:48
  not to go anywhere. So I think that it was
• 13:49
  this weird process for Alex, that it became about connecting
• 13:53
  with people and communing with people, sharing an experience, whereas
• 13:58
  it always had been just this like loner endeavor fra
• 14:01
  him and the crew. Was a way of bringing that
• 14:04
  to life by showing the crew's feelings about this and
• 14:07
  how they interact with Alex was our way of trying
• 14:10
  to get to that truth.
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 14:12
  Speaker 7: To go into that just briefly, One of the reasons
• 14:14
  I think that glyfe estate was not put on the
• 14:16
  market at nineteen fifty eight when it was discovered is
• 14:19
  because the Japanese inventor of that chemical recognized that that
• 14:22
  was a water soluble toxin. You do not want to
• 14:26
  introduce a water soluble toxin into the environment because you
• 14:29
  can never get it back right in that where if
• 14:32
  you have a fat soluble toxin, it'll actually be sequestered
• 14:35
  by my celium in the soil. If it gets into
• 14:38
  a human or another mammal, it'll be sequestered by fat cells,
• 14:41
  so it never hits the brain.
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: It'll be protective.
• 14:44
  Speaker 7: A water soluble toxin, on the other hand, can't be
• 14:47
  subtracted out of the ecosystem because everything on planet Earth,
• 14:50
  including your human body, is water, and so.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: That means that sorry to interrupt, but that means that
• 14:55
  this chemical can pass through that.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: One cell, you know, that one cell.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: Of the gut lining and the brain blood barrier as well.
• 15:09
  Speaker 7: Right, it's going everywhere, and it's also before it even
• 15:12
  gets the human body, going everywhere. And so the current
• 15:15
  statistics is that less than one tenth of one percent
• 15:18
  of the round up used on the planet actually hits
• 15:20
  a weed. The other ninety nine point nine to nine
• 15:23
  percent gets into the soil and in the water system
• 15:26
  and washes off. And so we are now seeing the
• 15:29
  runoff from these farms and in the water table itself.
• 15:32
  So we have fossil aquifers of the United States here
• 15:35
  that run from Canada all the way down to historically
• 15:38
  Mexico that has now dried up. We've turned over a
• 15:43
  thousand square miles of Texas into desert over just the
• 15:47
  last twenty years from sucking water out of the ground.
• 15:49
  That fossil aquifer is now contaminated with round up that's
• 15:53
  filtered down into this ancient fresh water source wars. And
• 15:58
  then in the same moment, you've got the Mississippi River,
• 16:00
  which collects over eighty percent of all of the round
• 16:03
  up in the country and then it's evaporating the whole time,
• 16:06
  so it's going into the air that you breathe, and
• 16:08
  then it goes into the clouds and then it rains.
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: Down on us.
• 16:11
  Speaker 7: Recent studies in the air and rainfall in the southern
• 16:14
  United States is showing seventy five percent of the rain
• 16:17
  seventy five percent in the air contaminated with roundup. So
• 16:20
  before you even take a bite of food, you're being
• 16:22
  hit with an antibiotic. When you breathe, you're getting hit
• 16:25
  with an antibiotic when you experience rainfall. And so you
• 16:30
  may be growing organic crops, but they're getting rained on.
• 16:33
  And so we have now locked this water soluble toxin
• 16:36
  into our environment. Fortunately, you know, to give you a
• 16:39
  little bit of breather here from the bad news is
• 16:42
  that there are bacteria and fungi that can eventually digest
• 16:45
  the glyphosate. The downside is we need to stop spraying
• 16:49
  it so they can return. We're decimating those very bacteria
• 16:52
  and fungi by the presence of roundup to the point
• 16:55
  where they're not digesting it. Current estimates as if we
• 16:58
  stop spraying round up tomorrow, it would take about fifty
• 17:01
  years before ecosystem saw a drop and the level round
• 17:03
  up below our toxic levels.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: And what is the current you know, I don't know.
• 17:10
  Market cap isn't the right word, but like how profuse,
• 17:12
  like it's billions of dollars right there is there anybody
• 17:16
  outside of the organic farming community that does not use roundup,
• 17:20
  or people that are even just weeding their own gardens
• 17:23
  at home and spraying their lawns.
• 17:25
  Speaker 7: It's actually where it started. So before we genetically modified
• 17:28
  crops to be able to be sprayed directly with round up,
• 17:30
  in nineteen ninety six that occurred, but before that it
• 17:34
  was really the homeowner that was contributing most to our
• 17:36
  toxic load. Because in the nineteen eighties, the EPA allowed
• 17:41
  Monsante to go direct to consumer with their advertising for
• 17:43
  this chemical, and so they created those Super Bowl commercials
• 17:46
  of a guy walking out of his suburban garage with
• 17:49
  a dramatic soundtrack, and he had two pistol grips on
• 17:52
  his side, and he came out and boldly sprayed down
• 17:55
  the four dandelions that would in his driveway, which happened
• 17:58
  to be super food that killed cancer. But anyway, he
• 18:00
  sprays these four dandelions kills kills the only medicine on
• 18:06
  his property, and you know, so suddenly it was. It
• 18:10
  was by far and away the most effective direct consumer
• 18:12
  advertising ever because suddenly males in the United States realized
• 18:16
  it could be manly.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: To weed right there, like shooting guns.
• 18:20
  Speaker 7: They're shooting guns. It's easy warfare, you know, whatever it is,
• 18:24
  instead of having to actually bend over and put on
• 18:26
  a pair of gloves or whatever it is. And so
• 18:29
  we started broadcasting this stuff across driveways, sidewalks, patios, into
• 18:34
  our own garden spaces and everything else. And that the
• 18:37
  difference between a homeowner who's going to go through a
• 18:39
  couple of gallons and a farmer who will go through
• 18:42
  tens of thousands of gallons. The farmers super careful with
• 18:45
  the usage because their margins are so low. The homeowner
• 18:49
  doesn't care. So they're spraying it down and they might
• 18:52
  use a quarter of a gallon of glycasiated in an afternoon,
• 18:55
  whereas a whole farm might treat the entire thousand acres
• 18:58
  with that same quarter gown. So the the smaller the user,
• 19:02
  in some ways, the more dumping of this chemical that
• 19:05
  they were doing. So by the nineteen eighties we were
• 19:07
  drinking round up out of our municipal water.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: System getting into our water system.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: That's unbelievable.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: Well, let's take a moment and and and just kind
• 19:15
  of uh, you know, canvas what the discussion is around
• 19:20
  the life is state, because I think, you know, it's
• 19:22
  worth mentioning that as soon as you bring this up,
• 19:24
  we start to venture tiptoe into this world of like,
• 19:27
  you know, crazy conspiracy theories and you must be you know,
• 19:31
  some some you know, insane hippie person to be bringing
• 19:34
  this up, and you.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: Know, don't don't mind him, like he's.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: Just a wacko. He's a whack job, like as a
• 19:39
  marginal character. You know, we know this stuff is safe.
• 19:43
  It's been around forever. It's been vetted, you know, the EPA,
• 19:45
  they're on it. They know what's you know, they know
• 19:47
  what's healthy for us. If it was dangerous, they would
• 19:49
  have outlawed it. And this has been around for a
• 19:52
  long time. And there's no indication that anybody's getting sick
• 19:54
  from this. So what are you talking about?
• 19:56
  Speaker 7: Yeah, if the conspiracy theorist was right, then we'd one
• 20:00
  in two people with cancer, we'd see one in thirty
• 20:02
  kids with autism. We'd see Parkinson's going crazy. Yeah, they're
• 20:06
  literally repeating back if if it was toxic, we would
• 20:10
  see literally what we're seeing, you know. And so the
• 20:13
  reality is the public house statistics have gotten so grim
• 20:16
  in the last eight years that nobody can call this
• 20:18
  a conspiracy theory anymore.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: But it's almost like, yeah, but that's where's the direct
• 20:23
  at where's the smoking gun.
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: The smoking gun is what's been missing. That's what we
• 20:26
  found in twenty twelve. So in twenty twelve we found
• 20:30
  it backwards. I don't think anybody's actually smart enough with
• 20:34
  the human gray matter that we're given to actually create
• 20:36
  a paradigm shift perspectively. Right, So every great you know
• 20:40
  mind that we looked to in past, Galileo or you know,
• 20:44
  Ben Franklin or anybody we said, oh they discovered something,
• 20:46
  or you know Edison, these just came at moments when
• 20:51
  the evidence got so overwhelming that it became obvious.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: And so in the same way, in twenty twelve, the
• 20:59
  evidence was getting so overwhelming that we were onto something
• 21:01
  in the nutrition world, but we at the time, I
• 21:04
  was still thinking cancer or cancer therapy because my background
• 21:07
  was in chemotherapy development. And so when I found these
• 21:10
  molecules in soil that look similar to the chemotherapy I'd
• 21:13
  been making. A lot of bells started ringing of like
• 21:16
  what is that? Where did it come from? How is
• 21:18
  their medicine in the dirt? Like where's that coming from?
• 21:21
  And within a few weeks of that discovery of those molecules,
• 21:23
  we found out that bacteria and fungi were making these
• 21:26
  specific shapes of these carbon molecules, and that really closed
• 21:29
  the loop for me because there had been some papers
• 21:33
  coming out in the mid two thousands in the cancer
• 21:35
  world that we're starting to say that the bacteria in
• 21:37
  your gut were predicting which cancers you would get. If
• 21:40
  you're missing these bacteria, you would get prostate cancer. If
• 21:42
  you had these bacteria, you would get breast cancer. That
• 21:45
  was so radically bizarre and out there for our current
• 21:48
  model even to this day as to how cancer worked.
• 21:51
  But now you fast forward eight ten years and now
• 21:54
  there's tens of thousands of articles that are showing that genomically,
• 21:58
  the bacterial genome is way more important and determining cancer
• 22:01
  than the human genome. And so this reality was hitting
• 22:04
  in so in twenty twelve, when we discovered these chemicals
• 22:07
  that look a little like chemotherapy that are made by
• 22:09
  bacterian fungi in the soil.
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: It suddenly closed the loop.
• 22:13
  Speaker 7: Of oh, my gosh, what if the bacteria in our
• 22:14
  gut is doing the same thing. What if the bacteria
• 22:17
  in the fungi are actually our best source of medicine
• 22:19
  for everything? And so that's the direction we were going.
• 22:23
  But as soon as we put this into Petrie dishes
• 22:25
  with cancer cells and beyond, we suddenly realized none and no,
• 22:28
  there's something way deeper happening with this information stream coming
• 22:31
  out of bacterian fungi.
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: And it was my chief science.
• 22:34
  Speaker 7: Officer, doctor John Gildet, is a PhD in genetics and.
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: Cell biology, and he.
• 22:41
  Speaker 7: Was the first to realize that we had put our
• 22:44
  finger on the glyphe say toxicity issue is that this
• 22:47
  communication network from the bacterian fungui was actually supporting the
• 22:50
  protein structure in our gut lining. And so it turns
• 22:54
  out that the gut is held together as these trillions
• 22:56
  of cells that make up that cellfane layer by tight junctions.
• 22:59
  These are velcro like proteins that hold one microscopic cell
• 23:03
  to the next to create this coherent carpet of two
• 23:06
  tennis courts, and he had recognized before this in a
• 23:09
  number of other labs. It started to publish that glyphasate
• 23:12
  seemed to increase the permeability of this membrane, and nobody
• 23:15
  was really sure why yet, but we suddenly realized that
• 23:19
  if this bacteriocommunication network was in there, we couldn't injure
• 23:23
  the membrane. It became bulletproof to the glyphysate injury. And
• 23:28
  so in that journey we started to really studying glyphasate
• 23:30
  in his relationship to the human cells. Because, like you said,
• 23:32
  Monsanto's been swearing up and now that there is no
• 23:35
  harm to the human body because the chickamate pathway only
• 23:39
  exists in back here in fungi. Well, that may be
• 23:42
  true regarding that enzyme target, but the classic thing with
• 23:44
  any drug is it always has off target effects. So
• 23:47
  that's why drugs have side effects, is they don't actually
• 23:50
  go and do exactly what your doctor says it's going
• 23:52
  to go do. It's going to hit a bunch of
• 23:53
  other receptors and do other things. The side effects of
• 23:56
  glyphasate that are outside of this chickamate pathway is direct
• 24:00
  injury to the protein structure that holds your gut lining together.
• 24:05
  This would be bad news if that was it, But
• 24:07
  it turns out that every macro membrane in your body,
• 24:10
  the blood vessels that fuel your entire body with auxygen
• 24:14
  and nutrients, are held together with the same tight junctions.
• 24:17
  The blood brain barrier that protects your peripheral nervous system
• 24:20
  in your brain, same tight junctions. The kidney tubules that
• 24:24
  are held together to detox your body, same tight junctions.
• 24:28
  And so what's happened as we've introduced a chemical that's
• 24:31
  directly toxic to this velcra like protein, as we turn
• 24:34
  into leaky sieves on the front end, gut leak and
• 24:37
  nasal sinus leak. And so every time we breathe, every
• 24:39
  time we eat, we're starting to leak, and our immune
• 24:41
  system gets overwhelmed. Then the blood vessels that are supposed
• 24:44
  to deliver either an immune response from peripheral or get
• 24:48
  nutrients to some distant space is also leaking, and so
• 24:51
  we're getting permeability of the blood vessels. Then you get
• 24:54
  to the blood brain barrier. This is supposed to be
• 24:56
  the holy of holies. A peripheral nerve or the brain
• 24:58
  is supposed to be protected against everything in your blood,
• 25:01
  because even glucose, which is the main fuel for your brain,
• 25:04
  should not get into the brain in an unregulated fashion.
• 25:06
  It will damage the nerves. And so the holly of
• 25:09
  Hawllys of the central and peripheral nervous system is being destroyed.
• 25:12
  And so if that's true, if clay for seed was
• 25:15
  really damaging that, then we should see a massive explosion
• 25:18
  in our larger injury to children and adults starting in
• 25:21
  about nineteen eighty six. And that's exactly when we see
• 25:24
  this deep increase happening and autism, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, neurodegenitive conditions
• 25:29
  like MSS, autoimmune diseases and all the rest.
• 25:33
  Speaker 11: We were doing a counter terrorism exercise.
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: The goal was.
• 25:38
  Speaker 11: To test this new equipment that the R and D
• 25:42
  Department of the Military had created. It was unmanned video
• 25:45
  and sonar designed to detect attack swimmers and attack divers
• 25:51
  coming into put bombs on our ships and equipment. So
• 25:54
  they set it up on the pr in Sydney Harbor
• 25:58
  alongside the Navy base and it's very central to everything.
• 26:02
  You can see the Harbor Bridge, it's not that far away.
• 26:04
  The opera house that everyone knows about. You can see
• 26:06
  all of that and.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: Just out there last year and I took one of
• 26:09
  those ferries, so I'm visualizing it perfectly.
• 26:12
  Speaker 11: Yeah, So when you're moving away from the Sydney Opera
• 26:16
  House and that's behind you on your right hand side,
• 26:19
  and you get to that fort in the middle of
• 26:21
  the harbor, Fort Dennison. So if you look forty five
• 26:24
  degree angle over to the navy base right by the pier,
• 26:28
  right there is where I got attacked. No one has
• 26:31
  been attacked in Sydney Harbor in sixty years at that point,
• 26:35
  no navy diver.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: That was kind of a banner year, though overall for
• 26:38
  charcitas that were like twenty one that year, I.
• 26:40
  Speaker 6: Think it was a little less than that.
• 26:43
  Speaker 11: But there was a guy the day after me at Bondai,
• 26:46
  which is you know as the crow flies, probably five
• 26:51
  miles away, and he lost his hand as well. So
• 26:56
  I've got the new guy in the water. He's pretending
• 26:58
  to be an attack swimmer. All the R and D
• 27:01
  guys and my chief are up on the bow of
• 27:03
  one of the warships watching and this equipment's on the
• 27:05
  pier trying to detect him. And he's swimming around for
• 27:09
  about half an hour, and I thought I'd do him
• 27:11
  a good turn and I said, jump out, mate, I'll
• 27:13
  take over for you.
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 27:14
  Speaker 11: I rolled over the edge of the little black zodiac
• 27:18
  in a black wet suit and a pair of fins,
• 27:21
  and I was doing what we call finning. I was
• 27:23
  on my back on the surface, just kicking my legs
• 27:26
  and it was a three tier thing. We were going
• 27:27
  to do surface swimming to see if it could detect us.
• 27:30
  We were going to do scuba to see if it
• 27:31
  could detect us, and then pure oxygen rebreathers with no
• 27:35
  bubbles to see if it could detect that.
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: So we were still in the first phase.
• 27:39
  Speaker 11: You know, this is forty minutes into testing and on
• 27:42
  the very first day and I'm in the water on
• 27:45
  the surface.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: Like this is simple routine, share.
• 27:48
  Speaker 11: This is nothing. This is like the boringest day ever.
• 27:51
  And I had to get up at four o'clock in
• 27:52
  the morning for this shit.
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: So it's end of February.
• 27:56
  Speaker 11: It was February eleventh, so the start of February, which
• 27:59
  is the end of US It's probably the hottest season
• 28:02
  of the year, but it was kind of chilly.
• 28:05
  Speaker 6: It was overcast.
• 28:06
  Speaker 11: The water's murky in Sydney Harbor, so combining all of that,
• 28:09
  you can't see through the water at all. And I'm
• 28:12
  one of my first runs towards one of the warships
• 28:16
  that I'm pretending to attack, and I look over my
• 28:20
  left shoulder to make sure that I'm going in the
• 28:22
  right direction, and before I can turn back, I just
• 28:24
  get this massive whack in my leg, like someone's hit
• 28:27
  me with.
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: A baseball bat. And it didn't really hurt.
• 28:29
  Speaker 11: It was just surprising more than anything else. And I
• 28:32
  turned around to see what it was, thinking the guys
• 28:35
  in the boat maybe got too close. I couldn't hear
• 28:37
  because I had water in my ears. And I turned
• 28:41
  around and my brain couldn't comprehend what I was seeing
• 28:46
  because I'd never seen a shark's head up close in
• 28:49
  real life like that before. And it took me a
• 28:52
  few seconds and I thought, oh fuck, it's a fucking shark.
• 28:56
  And all of these things ran through my head and
• 28:57
  I thought, Okay, okay, I've seen I've seen the crocodile Hunter,
• 29:01
  I've seen Discovery Channel.
• 29:02
  Speaker 6: I'll jab it in the eyeball. And so I.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: Tried to punch it in the feet right.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: That's like that.
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: People have said it works. I just thought eyeball, because
• 29:12
  that's the softest spot. So I tried, but I couldn't
• 29:16
  move my arm for some reason. And I looked down
• 29:19
  and I could see all the teeth half embedded into
• 29:22
  my thigh. I could see the lips pulled back, all the.
• 29:25
  Speaker 11: Pink gums, and the teeth going all the way up
• 29:28
  my leg, over my wrist, which was by my side.
• 29:32
  So it had my hand in its mouth, which is
• 29:33
  why I couldn't move it. And it's still at this
• 29:35
  point it didn't hurt. I could see the teeth embedded
• 29:38
  in my hand. I just thought, okay, left hand, so
• 29:41
  I reached for the eyeball, but it had me by
• 29:42
  the back of the leg and I was inches away
• 29:45
  from that eyeball, just desperately trying to get my finger
• 29:47
  in it, but I couldn't reach.
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: So I tried to grab it.
• 29:50
  Speaker 11: By the nose and push it off, sort of lever
• 29:53
  it off that way, but all that did was push
• 29:55
  the teeth of the lower jaw deeper into my hamstring.
• 29:59
  So I stopped that and I cocked back to give
• 30:01
  it a whack in the nose, and just as I
• 30:04
  was coming in. It started to shake me, and this
• 30:08
  all encompassing pain rattled me to my core and all
• 30:12
  the strength went out of my punch and I yelled,
• 30:16
  and I think that's when the guys in the safety
• 30:18
  boat saw what was going on.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: And when it's shaking you, the lower jaw detaches right
• 30:23
  and it goes side to side, so it becomes like
• 30:25
  this sawing effect.
• 30:27
  Speaker 11: Yeah, it's movable, so that. Yeah, it just basically was
• 30:32
  sawing the flesh out of my body while I'm in agony,
• 30:36
  terrified drowning. This is my worst nightmare. I was terrified
• 30:41
  of sharks. Really, the only two things I was scared
• 30:45
  of was sharks and public speaking.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: And now this is your life, I know, swe That's
• 30:51
  the way the universe works it out, man.
• 30:53
  Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, your greatest fears can actually become your
• 30:57
  greatest strengths.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: And I think at the end that's really the theme
• 31:00
  of your of your whole story.
• 31:01
  Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, you've got to embrace that ship because
• 31:04
  you don't know, you don't you're not fully aware of
• 31:08
  what you can accomplish if you're letting, especially if you're
• 31:11
  letting fee hold you back.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: And to be confronted with that in the most vicious,
• 31:16
  life threatening way possible.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: And it's just it's it's.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: Beyond imagination, you know. And I've seen that there's photographs online.
• 31:25
  You can see the pictures of your arm.
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, the actual attack video is on YouTube. Yeah.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it looks like that. I watched that and it's
• 31:32
  sort of like a lockness monster thing. It's all like
• 31:35
  crany and you're like, what's actually going You can't really
• 31:37
  tell what's going on, but those still photographs of your
• 31:41
  of your arm and in the back of your leg
• 31:45
  are just mean yeah, and then you know, when you
• 31:48
  get up, you tell you say, like you show these
• 31:50
  pictures some event and like fifty guys like passed out.
• 31:53
  Speaker 11: Or yeah, fifty over these fifty three people have passed out,
• 31:58
  fifty one men, only two women.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's as gruesome as it comes. I mean,
• 32:04
  that image of your arm is I almost wish I
• 32:07
  didn't see it.
• 32:08
  Speaker 11: I don't think I've had any pass out in America though.
• 32:12
  I'm heading up to Atlanta to talk to IBM on Sunday,
• 32:18
  so I'm wondering if I'm going to get my first
• 32:21
  American casualty. I'm a little bit worried though, because you
• 32:24
  guys like to sue people.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Oh, come on, you give the warning.
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: I do. I give the warning. I make very lighthearted
• 32:31
  of it. We have a good time. But some people
• 32:34
  just just tell him to turn away.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 32:36
  Speaker 11: One of the guys said he wasn't even watching. He said,
• 32:38
  he just listened to me speaking and he passed out.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: Well, that guy needs to hear your message. A little
• 32:44
  bit more of that.
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: But it's a lot of fun. Not that day though,
• 32:48
  that was not fun at all.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: So there you are, these guys are hauling you out.
• 32:53
  You know, it's interesting that that, like fight or flight response,
• 32:58
  typically you hear that the pen comes later, you know,
• 33:01
  because the adrenaline is so you know, on on overdrive
• 33:05
  in that situation. But you are already feeling the pain,
• 33:08
  the amount of blood that you were losing. I mean,
• 33:11
  it's sharking that you're alive. Like, it's incredible that you
• 33:14
  didn't just bleed out.
• 33:15
  Speaker 11: Yeah, it's a testament to what the human body is
• 33:18
  capable of.
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: When I have these super capable guys, you know exactly,
• 33:22
  guys ever, like, you know, deal with the situation and
• 33:25
  to be calm under fire.
• 33:27
  Speaker 11: Yeah, Well, one of the guys hadn't even slept that night.
• 33:29
  He was actually hung over his hell passed out in
• 33:32
  the bottom of the boat. Can you imagine waking up
• 33:34
  to your buddy being eaten by a shark and having
• 33:36
  to do first aid?
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: That would have been One of.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: The guys literally reached his hand in and like pinched
• 33:42
  an artery.
• 33:42
  Speaker 11: Yeah, because they couldn't stop the bleeding, they put a
• 33:46
  tornycail on using the strap from a life jacket. Because
• 33:48
  we didn't have any medical equipment. We didn't think it
• 33:51
  was going to be a day like that at all,
• 33:53
  because this is where we work every day. So one
• 33:56
  of the guys, the new guy who I'd pulled out
• 33:58
  of the water earlier, had to Sticky's hand inside my
• 34:01
  leg and pinch clothed and arterie. Otherwise I would have died.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: And it should have been that guy, right, you were
• 34:07
  like you were swapping out for him, right.
• 34:09
  Speaker 11: Well, everyone was saying that if it was him, there's
• 34:12
  no way he would have lived. He was much smaller
• 34:14
  than me, that the shock would have killed him. So
• 34:18
  maybe it was for a reason, hmm, Well unconsciously maybe.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: You look.
• 34:26
  Speaker 12: Well, you know, I didn't when it came back from London,
• 34:30
  I didn't know anything. I didn't know there was a
• 34:32
  I didn't know there was a movie.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: This is a theme with you.
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: You always.
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: What's going on where I'm tipping over on the track
• 34:40
  like I'm doing the age ride, I'm on my mountain bike.
• 34:43
  Speaker 10: What's happening? I didn't.
• 34:44
  Speaker 12: I had no idea there was a vegan movement. I
• 34:46
  had no idea there was an animal rights movement.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: I didn't know.
• 34:49
  Speaker 10: About you yet. I didn't know. I knew absolutely nothing.
• 34:53
  Speaker 12: I'm still to the point where I I'm not sharing
• 34:56
  anything because I don't think there's anyone that cares.
• 34:58
  Speaker 10: Uh.
• 34:59
  Speaker 12: And the moment happened when my husband came home one
• 35:04
  day from doing some shopping. He'd been to Native Foods
• 35:07
  and he saw a little cute group of people meeting
• 35:11
  he it happened to be Mercy for Animals.
• 35:13
  Speaker 10: He got a flyer and brought it home and was like, look,
• 35:16
  there's like people that talk about what you talk about.
• 35:20
  And I'm like, stop it.
• 35:22
  Speaker 12: And I picked up the phone and called Mercy for
• 35:25
  Animals in Santa Monica and got a hold of Ari Solomon.
• 35:28
  Speaker 10: I'm like you guys, like you, like, what how do you?
• 35:32
  What do you do? And so he said, come up,
• 35:35
  come up and see us, let's have lunch.
• 35:36
  Speaker 12: And that was the beginning of recognizing that anybody talks
• 35:40
  about this and that, and then that people listen to
• 35:43
  them and actually care and are creating a pretty large
• 35:47
  movement of people that give a crap.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: Well, it's amazing as somebody who not so long ago
• 35:53
  didn't even know these worlds existed, that you're having PSA's
• 35:58
  airing during the Olympics and you've aiated this Compassionate Champs movement, Like,
• 36:03
  tell me what that's all about.
• 36:06
  Speaker 10: So I'm learning more and more every day.
• 36:11
  Speaker 12: But when I started compassion Champs, it was it was
• 36:14
  really it was kind of more out of a desire
• 36:16
  to meld together compassion and strength. I felt like there was,
• 36:21
  you know, nobody really that that was having a real
• 36:25
  conversation about being able to be caring and compassionate and
• 36:30
  loving and empathetic but also strong and fierce and badass,
• 36:36
  and you know those those two just weren't coming together
• 36:39
  as as a as a group of people.
• 36:41
  Speaker 10: So that that's that's where.
• 36:42
  Speaker 12: It was kind of born out of I'm learning more
• 36:46
  and more as I am traversing this movement and reading
• 36:51
  more research and understanding more from being a part of
• 36:55
  the Game Changer's film, which we can talk about that,
• 37:00
  you know people, and and just from my own experience,
• 37:05
  sadly and and really disappointing to me, is by and large,
• 37:11
  people don't care about the animals.
• 37:14
  Speaker 10: They just don't. They just they don't care about the suffering.
• 37:16
  Speaker 12: They don't want to know about it, they don't want
• 37:17
  to hear it, they don't want you to show them,
• 37:18
  they don't definitely don't want you to talk about it,
• 37:20
  and they really don't want you to talk about it
• 37:21
  when when you're all eating. But people do care about
• 37:27
  their health, and they do care about their performance, not
• 37:29
  just athlete you know, athletic performance. People just care about
• 37:33
  their general performance and being better in their life.
• 37:36
  Speaker 10: Right. A lot of the people that you've had on here, So.
• 37:41
  Speaker 12: The conversation that I'm having is is changing a bit more.
• 37:47
  Speaker 10: I think it's I'm almost.
• 37:49
  Speaker 12: Feeling more like an undercover animal activists because it's at
• 37:56
  the core of what I care about the most. Uh,
• 38:00
  it's the least effective way to change people's minds.
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: The way to impact people is by appealing to what
• 38:08
  interests them, not what interests you. Right, Such a bummer,
• 38:12
  and I think that, you know, the athlete plays a
• 38:14
  very interesting role in this movement because what they're able
• 38:19
  to do with their bodies speaks louder than the words
• 38:23
  that come out of many a doctor's mouth, many an
• 38:27
  activist's mouth, Because when someone sees you with a silver
• 38:31
  metal on, sees you on a podium, or sees you
• 38:34
  on that velodrome kicking ass, it's like, Wow, how does
• 38:37
  how does that person do that? I want to know
• 38:39
  more about who that person is and what inspires them
• 38:42
  and what fuels them, and telling that story is a
• 38:45
  way to impact hearts and minds that I think is
• 38:47
  different and important, you know, And that's why I think.
• 38:53
  You know, this Game Changers movie that you're a part
• 38:55
  of is going to be a really big deal. Like
• 38:57
  I haven't seen it yet, I've seen the trailer, but
• 38:59
  I know it's making a splash. You were at Sundance,
• 39:01
  You just got back from the Berlin Film Festival. Tell
• 39:05
  me what it was like to, you know, see that movie,
• 39:07
  be part of that movie and to participate in in
• 39:13
  in screening it before audiences for the first time.
• 39:17
  Speaker 12: Yeah, it was just a wild pleasure and honor.
• 39:22
  Speaker 13: Right.
• 39:22
  Speaker 12: I just feel like, you know, we're kind of at
• 39:26
  a tipping point of this movement.
• 39:31
  Speaker 10: You know, we're not anywhere near like a.
• 39:33
  Speaker 12: Large percent of the population eating plant based, but I
• 39:36
  feel like I'm definitely having outside of the movement, right.
• 39:40
  We have to take ourselves outside to really recognize. But
• 39:43
  those conversations are at a much higher level than they
• 39:45
  used to be. People are at least aware now that
• 39:48
  they've decided that that's for them or not.
• 39:49
  Speaker 10: Maybe not.
• 39:50
  Speaker 12: But screening the film at Sundance and at the Berlin
• 39:55
  Alli in Berlin, which was the international premiere, it was
• 40:00
  so many different types of people asking all different types
• 40:05
  of questions, you know.
• 40:06
  Speaker 10: It was That's what I loved about it.
• 40:07
  Speaker 12: It was like a wide variety of questions that not
• 40:13
  just your typical like oh, where are you getting your protein?
• 40:16
  Well they cover that in the film, so maybe that's
• 40:18
  why they weren't asking that.
• 40:19
  Speaker 10: But and people's reaction to it was It's sundance.
• 40:25
  Speaker 12: It really really caught me off guard, and by surprise.
• 40:29
  Normally we're used to people saying, oh, Okay, this is
• 40:32
  interesting plant based. Okay, I think I might try a recipe,
• 40:36
  or I might try meatless mondays, or I'm going to
• 40:38
  try this on slots of people. We do the Q
• 40:42
  and A after the film. Right, there's about fifteen of
• 40:45
  us there, the doctors and the and the athletes. I'm
• 40:47
  the only female because the other two females. It's a male,
• 40:52
  very males, very film. There's totally it's very focused on
• 40:58
  young men because they are the one that are resistant
• 41:01
  to change as far as eating meat and the meat myth.
• 41:04
  So the three females in the film and the other
• 41:07
  two are still competing. So it's the only female there.
• 41:10
  So I just got this rush of women, you know,
• 41:15
  standing in line to talk about this, and every single
• 41:18
  one says.
• 41:20
  Speaker 10: I'm starting today. What do I do for dinner?
• 41:23
  Speaker 12: Somebody else comes up and says, I'm going back to
• 41:25
  the condo and I'm supposed to cook for ten people,
• 41:28
  and I have chicken and the refrigerator, and I can't
• 41:30
  serve them that it's you know, it's diseased or you know,
• 41:35
  they would they would she would pick out different parts
• 41:37
  of the movie that she had learned about, all of
• 41:39
  the gnarliness of chicken. And I can't in my right
• 41:41
  mind serve them that, you know, I don't know what
• 41:44
  I'm going to do and I'm thinking, oh my god,
• 41:46
  oh my god, no, cook the chicken.
• 41:48
  Speaker 10: Let's start tomorrow.
• 41:49
  Speaker 12: You know, it's like, oh my gosh. It wasn't a
• 41:51
  completely different type of panic. Almost of these people just
• 41:56
  just so moved by what they learned and so moved
• 42:00
  by the health aspect that they were everyone starting tomorrow.
• 42:04
  And so I was like, wow, guys, we got to
• 42:07
  really be ready for this because nobody knew that was
• 42:10
  going to be the reaction.
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you better have your answer like chambered.
• 42:14
  Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was exciting feed.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: Them when the inspiration is is at its peak.
• 42:20
  Speaker 10: Right exactly exactly, yeah, yeah, so yeah, what was the
• 42:24
  what was.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: The response in Berlin? How is it different?
• 42:29
  Speaker 10: It was?
• 42:30
  Speaker 12: It was gosh, I people are a little bit more
• 42:33
  subdued there, you know, I just the Germans.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: Are also questioners.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: They're much more Yeah.
• 42:38
  Speaker 10: Yeah, so we got, I mean we yeah, we got.
• 42:41
  Speaker 12: There's a part in the film where it kind of
• 42:43
  goes into uh, tobacco industry and kind of how they
• 42:48
  were eventually exposed even after there was you know, seven
• 42:52
  hundred studies that says smoking kills you, but they had,
• 42:55
  you know, kind of kept them all quiet and the
• 42:58
  pr firm Exponent that is known for hiding big tobacco,
• 43:03
  hiding a lot of chemicals that are in different things
• 43:06
  that we motions and things we put on our skin
• 43:09
  and are now spinning big agriculture.
• 43:12
  Speaker 10: So that was.
• 43:15
  Speaker 12: Very That was an interesting topic in Berlin, Like a
• 43:17
  lot of people brought that, what are we going to
• 43:19
  do about exponent that's not okay?
• 43:21
  Speaker 10: You know, So that that was a little bit.
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: More a skance of what you were trying to go for.
• 43:28
  Speaker 10: Well, yeah, but I mean you'll see it.
• 43:31
  Speaker 12: It kind of at least helps people to understand why
• 43:35
  all of this how all of this marketing is working,
• 43:39
  This meat myth is working in the machine that's behind
• 43:42
  big agriculture and the spin that every time something comes
• 43:46
  out like what we're doing with Switch for Good, if
• 43:49
  we get big enough, which we better and I hope
• 43:51
  we will, there'll be some type of exponent, whether it's
• 43:54
  there or someone else doing.
• 43:56
  Speaker 10: A quick spin for a big dairy.
• 43:58
  Speaker 12: So that that is kind it's a pretty integral part
• 44:00
  of the film for people to understand why they're being
• 44:05
  told this myth, like where it's coming from and how
• 44:07
  much money is behind that myth.
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: So but.
• 44:12
  Speaker 10: Germany as a whole, and especially Berlin.
• 44:15
  Speaker 12: I mean, Berlin is known as the vegan capital of Europe,
• 44:17
  so you know it was really people with a very
• 44:21
  open mind too.
• 44:22
  Speaker 10: At the film, you know, habits are.
• 44:25
  Speaker 13: One of the phrases I'd like to use is that
• 44:27
  pretty much any of the results in your life are
• 44:28
  a lagging measure of your habits. Right, So your weight
• 44:31
  is a lagging measure of your eating habits, Your bank
• 44:34
  account is a lagging measure of your financial habits. Your
• 44:37
  clutter is a lagging measure of your cleaning habits, Like
• 44:40
  the outcomes are just the manifestation of the behaviors that
• 44:45
  preceded them, so you kind of get what you repeat
• 44:48
  in that way. Well, that makes sense. People understand that.
• 44:50
  That's important. So that's one reason why habits are crucial.
• 44:53
  But there's another thing that habits do that is even
• 44:57
  more central, even more important, and that is that your
• 45:01
  habits are the way that you embody a particular identity.
• 45:05
  So every morning that you make your bed, you embody
• 45:09
  the habits of you embody the identity of an organized person,
• 45:13
  someone who's clean. Every time you go to the gym,
• 45:15
  you embody the identity of someone who's fit. Every time
• 45:18
  you sit down to write a sentence or a page,
• 45:21
  you embody the identity of someone who's a writer, and
• 45:23
  so in that sense, habits are like every action you
• 45:27
  take is kind of like a vote for the type
• 45:29
  of person that you believe that you are. And as
• 45:31
  you take these actions, you build up evidence of a
• 45:34
  particular identity, and pretty soon your beliefs have something to
• 45:37
  root themselves in. It's like, Man, I've showed up at
• 45:39
  the gym for four days a week for the last
• 45:42
  three months. I guess like I'm the type of person
• 45:44
  who doesn't miss workouts, and that I think is the
• 45:47
  true reason why habits are so important. Once I realized
• 45:51
  how beliefs and behaviors are connected, that it's like this
• 45:55
  two way street, then I've started to think, all right,
• 45:59
  maybe this is really something. Not only does it deliver
• 46:01
  those external results the clean room or the bigger bank account,
• 46:05
  but also the internal results of shaping your sense of
• 46:08
  self image and what you believe.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: Right, So let's drill into these four laws you've got.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: We'll just break them down.
• 46:18
  Speaker 13: Okay, so I've hinted at this process so far, but
• 46:23
  the four stages that any habit goes through Q craving
• 46:26
  response reward. So there's some type of Q or raw
• 46:29
  data that gets your attention, then you predict or interpret
• 46:33
  that data in some way which motivates you to act
• 46:37
  take a response, and then somehow that behavior either benefits
• 46:40
  you or does not benefit you, and that's what gets
• 46:43
  you to close the feedback loop and update your prediction
• 46:46
  for the next time and decide if you want.
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: To continue that.
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: Although a caveat to that I would imagine is that
• 46:52
  there is a reward.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: You're saying it either benefits you or it doesn't. But
• 46:56
  isn't there an argument that.
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: It's it's benefiting you somehow, Well maybe not in a
• 47:01
  good way, but you're getting something.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: Out of that.
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: Like if you have a habit that's unhealthy, some bad
• 47:07
  behavior and everybody tells you got to stop doing that,
• 47:11
  you're getting some positive result from that, even if it's twisted,
• 47:16
  you know, or unhealthy. There's something inside of you that
• 47:20
  compels you to act that way because because you're getting
• 47:23
  something out of it.
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: So that's actual point.
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like whether it's masking some pain or whatever it is,
• 47:30
  there's a reason behind that.
• 47:33
  Speaker 13: All behaviors, those that are repeated service in some way.
• 47:37
  I guess we'd say all habits serve you in some way.
• 47:39
  And one way to think about this is that every
• 47:41
  behavior produces multiple outcomes across time. So if you take
• 47:46
  a bad habit or an unhealthy habit, like eating a
• 47:49
  doughnut or something, the immediate outcome is favorable. It's sugary,
• 47:54
  it's tasty, it's enjoyable in the moment. That's how it
• 47:56
  serves you. That's the reason why you repeat it. The
• 47:58
  ultimate outcome if you repeat that every day for the
• 48:01
  next three months or year, whatever is, you end up
• 48:03
  gaining weight or you're less healthier so on. For good habits,
• 48:06
  it's off in the reverse right, Like sometimes you know
• 48:09
  the benefit of going to the gym in many people's
• 48:11
  eyes is the immediate outcome is unfavorable. Sweat, I have
• 48:14
  to work, it's effortful, it's hard, and sacrifice. I don't
• 48:17
  get to watch TV. I gotta go there instead, So
• 48:20
  the immediate outcome is unfavorable. The ultimate outcome, if you
• 48:23
  repeat that habit for two months or a year or whatever,
• 48:26
  is you're.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: Fit and healthy.
• 48:27
  Speaker 13: And this is one of the key challenges of building
• 48:31
  good habits and breaking bad ones is figuring out ways
• 48:34
  to take the long term consequences of your good habits
• 48:38
  or of your bad habits and pull them into the
• 48:39
  present moment so you feel a little bit of the
• 48:41
  pain right now, so it serves you less. And to
• 48:44
  take the long term rewards of your good habits and
• 48:47
  pull those into the present moment so it feels good.
• 48:50
  This is one reason why you know it's great to choose, like,
• 48:52
  what's the best form of exercise, Well, maybe it's the best,
• 48:54
  the one that you enjoy, because if it feels good
• 48:57
  in the moment now, it serves you and you have
• 48:58
  a reason to repeat it.
• 49:00
  Speaker 14: So a low carb diet, of course, many of them
• 49:02
  continue to a decent amount of greens in their diet,
• 49:05
  but they're eliminating all the whites, and they're hypervigilant about it.
• 49:10
  The big difference in the ketogenic diet. Are you doing
• 49:12
  high fat, low carb, low protein, which we can talk
• 49:15
  about and with a plant based approach may actually have
• 49:18
  some benefit and science, or are you doing a low carb,
• 49:22
  high fat, and high protein diet which probably ages you
• 49:25
  quicker than any other diet on the planet, and that
• 49:28
  isn't always parsed out in their conversation. So the scary
• 49:33
  skeleton in the ketogenic diet closet is you'll lose weight,
• 49:38
  you may have some boost and energy for a period
• 49:40
  of time, you may be increasing your mortality risk, and
• 49:44
  they just don't talk about that with great regularity. So
• 49:48
  it's a difficult diet. And I think Dave asked you're
• 49:51
  trying to eat in the Google. I don't know that
• 49:53
  he'd want to be cornered as a ketogenic diet proponent.
• 49:56
  He has his brand bulletproof diet, but you know the
• 49:59
  difficult he had my patients telling me, this is you
• 50:02
  on the road. It's easier to be plant based than
• 50:04
  it is to eat a strict ketogenic diet. Right now,
• 50:07
  of you know, high fat options, you're going to have
• 50:10
  to carry around your own food. But the gravest concern
• 50:13
  is is it a healthy pattern? Is there any natural
• 50:16
  population and even slightly approaches it and has done well
• 50:19
  long term? Kind of a bullet shot at the plant
• 50:22
  based movement. Show me a society that's been plant based
• 50:25
  for centuries and has thrived.
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: That's one of Nina's big points.
• 50:28
  Speaker 14: Big points, But show me a community that's you can
• 50:31
  talk about Eskimos in the Messiah who live to age
• 50:34
  thirty or forty. Well, that's not kind of the example
• 50:37
  we're talking about. Show a oak and nawad type population
• 50:40
  that was ninety percent plus plant based and thrived. Great,
• 50:43
  we have our example that approximates the way we eat.
• 50:48
  They have great difficulty with that. In fact, the scientific
• 50:51
  data is it's the converse that they are at risk
• 50:53
  shortening their lifespan if it's an animal based low carb diet,
• 50:58
  particularly if they're emphasized. Foods that they fail are high
• 51:01
  in protein, which are typically going to be meats of
• 51:04
  a variety of kinds, no matter whether it's grass fed
• 51:06
  or not. It's the basic constitution of animal muscle that
• 51:09
  can aide you excessively in the science as well known.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: So a couple observations on that. First, with respect to
• 51:17
  the degree of difficulty of maintaining a ketogenic diet, it's
• 51:21
  an interesting thing to talk about because you're right, like,
• 51:27
  to actually do a ketogenic diet properly requires an incredible
• 51:33
  amount of like a forethought and planning and displays. It's
• 51:36
  not easy to really dial that in and make it
• 51:38
  work compared to a plant based diet. And yet I
• 51:42
  feel like the plant based diet gets unduly criticized for
• 51:47
  being restrictive and too difficult and something that people are
• 51:51
  just never going to be able to maintain long term,
• 51:53
  despite the fact that both of us have done that.
• 51:55
  But people are very quick to jump on the ketogenic
• 51:58
  and wagon and try it with enthusiasm without that same
• 52:03
  concern being applied.
• 52:06
  Speaker 14: Yeah, I agree completely.
• 52:09
  Speaker 6: You know, just a couple examples.
• 52:10
  Speaker 14: There's Joe Rogan had a surgeon on Sean Baker, and
• 52:16
  I don't know Sean Baker very well. We go at
• 52:18
  each other a little bit on Twitter, and he said
• 52:21
  very you know, casually, even he's an MD. I've done
• 52:25
  And the ultimate example of these diets is there's a
• 52:27
  whole group of people eating nothing but meat three meals
• 52:30
  a day, literally nothing but meat, and for reasons I
• 52:33
  don't know. Yeah, and he's one of many. I mean,
• 52:37
  he's not the only one that shows up there. They
• 52:39
  can claim short term some pretty impressive pictures of their
• 52:42
  abs and weight, and some of them have some heart
• 52:45
  set data. Of course, there's nothing published in the literature.
• 52:48
  I want to come back to that. But you know,
• 52:50
  doctor Baker said, I didn't even bother to check my labs.
• 52:53
  Joe Rogan said, you've been doing this for a year.
• 52:55
  He goes, no, I didn't check my labs. Well, I
• 52:57
  have patients that do that and they get their labs check,
• 52:59
  not under my And I have one that I'm going
• 53:01
  to write up maybe on the airplane flight back to
• 53:03
  Detroit later this evening is Clestero went from I've never
• 53:07
  seen this two fifty to seven fifty during the two
• 53:10
  months he did a meat only diet, trying to approximate
• 53:13
  what he was hearing on these you know, Rogue not
• 53:16
  Rogan kind of podcasts, and it's insanity and it's it's
• 53:21
  like religious fervor and follow the leader without thoughtfulness. The
• 53:26
  only medical condition that has any data everybody can verify
• 53:31
  this PubMed dot com putting kidogenic diet where fractory epilepsy
• 53:35
  and children and to sdergreat adults have a number, I mean,
• 53:38
  several dozen published studies on a impact if standard drugs
• 53:43
  like di lantin don't work and effect. Before di lantin,
• 53:46
  ketogenic died was a reasonable choice for kids with epilepsy.
• 53:50
  As soon as drugs came out, it kind of faded off,
• 53:52
  and it's come back for that use Daniel Aman, very
• 53:55
  famous local psychiatrist and a friend has a grandson that
• 53:59
  had refractory seizures. Rather sadly and ironically, ketogenic diet was
• 54:03
  very beneficial. You go beyond that, you're just your apps
• 54:07
  and data. So another startup that's hot and it's worth
• 54:10
  talking about because your listeners will hear. This is Verta
• 54:14
  Health Virta backed by Steven Finnie MD. I don't know
• 54:18
  much about him. He appeared in doctor Malhatra's documentary about
• 54:22
  visiting the Home of ansel Keys, one of the most
• 54:25
  distorted and misleading documentary's ever done, called The Pop Diet
• 54:31
  piopp I. Don't read it, don't watch it. It's a
• 54:33
  waste time, money and honesty. But Verta Health claims or
• 54:38
  the ketogenic diet that you can reverse your type two
• 54:41
  diabetes with a high frequency and they've got a lot
• 54:43
  of backing, and they've got an app, and they've got
• 54:46
  a coaching system. So they have published a study in
• 54:49
  a journal that is so obscure and so non reputable.
• 54:54
  But it is a journal, which is a proliferation of
• 54:57
  scientific journals that are open and you can either to
• 55:00
  publish an article or get access.
• 55:02
  Speaker 6: But it's a.
• 55:03
  Speaker 14: Small study of six months duration actually the originally ten
• 55:06
  weeks duration, non randomized, no control group in the scientific world,
• 55:10
  this is about.
• 55:11
  Speaker 6: As low as it goes.
• 55:12
  Speaker 14: And yes, with the dietary plan they advocated very high
• 55:15
  dropout rate in the group studied. They showed some drop
• 55:19
  in measures of diabetic control towards the better with their
• 55:22
  kidogenic diet coaching system and on that. I speak to
• 55:26
  like brilliant people and they say, well, the debates over
• 55:29
  vertic health has shown that ktyagenic diet can solve multiple
• 55:32
  health problems. It's so overblown and in fact what's missing
• 55:36
  is the six to seven studies that suggest to get
• 55:39
  to the point, big studies, hundreds of thousands of people.
• 55:42
  These are association studies. Group of people ate a certain
• 55:45
  way questionnaires, food questionnaires once, food questionnaires several times during
• 55:49
  a number of years. Follow these people up. Harvard School
• 55:52
  Public Health tough School nutrition very prominent places dramatic rise
• 55:57
  in long term mortality by people whose food.
• 56:01
  Speaker 6: Pattern it can be.
• 56:03
  Speaker 14: Called the low carb high fat diet arise in death rate.
• 56:06
  If you've had a heart attack and you fill out
• 56:08
  questionnaires at the Harvard School Public Health and they follow
• 56:10
  you long term, and your diet can be described as
• 56:12
  a low carb, high fed diet, you are much more
• 56:14
  likely to die and follow up than people that describe
• 56:17
  diets that are closer to high carb hopefully complex plant choices,
• 56:22
  though these aren't vegans, you know, more like a Mediterranean
• 56:25
  style diet. So that's the untold story for anybody listening,
• 56:28
  and it's falling for this optimization of performance and metabolism
• 56:34
  and control of cardiovascar risk. The data needs to be
• 56:38
  addressed about death rate. And until there's a study that
• 56:42
  resolves that issue and says that's wrong, six seven different
• 56:46
  studies in different parts of the world, I could not
• 56:49
  in any good conscious advise somebody do a animal based
• 56:53
  low carb ketogenic pattern, particularly if it's high in protein.
• 56:56
  Protein activates aging pathways. Protein activate biochemical pathways that right
• 57:01
  here in the City of the Angels have been found
• 57:04
  from yeas to mice to humans to cause accelerated aging
• 57:08
  and aging in every aspect of our body. And it
• 57:12
  is animal protein rich and an amino acid called loosine
• 57:15
  is the main trigger and you can't get around it.
• 57:17
  Grass fed beef, free range chicken, and lime caught fish
• 57:21
  all have tremendously more loocine than the amino added acid
• 57:25
  structure of plants. They have it, but they don't have
• 57:27
  near the same amount.
• 57:29
  Speaker 15: There might be a genetic predisposition towards anxiety and whatever
• 57:33
  that would gate somebody a little bit closer to pessimism,
• 57:36
  but it's a learned behavior, and so anything that's learned
• 57:38
  can be adjusted and adopted. So the first is to
• 57:41
  know that there's options, and part of that process is
• 57:44
  to recognize how many of the extraordinary doers in the
• 57:47
  world think, and they're more optimistic than pessimistic, just by
• 57:52
  my experience. If we're just taking an end of one
• 57:54
  right now. And then the challenge in this conversation is,
• 57:58
  as soon as people talk about optim it sounds like
• 58:01
  all of a sudden, we're going to get soft. All
• 58:03
  of a sudden, we're going to get you know, let's
• 58:05
  hold hands and let's pick some flowers together, and everything's
• 58:09
  going to work out just right. That's not what optimism
• 58:12
  Isn't optimism. We think that optimism is at the center
• 58:17
  of mental toughness, to have the mental discipline to be
• 58:20
  able to stay the course when the shit is not
• 58:23
  going right. That's the thing, right, there.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: Well, it's fortitude.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: It takes a tremendous amount of faith and composure to
• 58:30
  say I'm going to devote like this huge part of
• 58:33
  my life to this goal, whether it's professional or athletic
• 58:37
  or whatever it is baked into that has to be
• 58:40
  some sense that this is going to lead you in
• 58:42
  a positive direction, right, that things are going to work out,
• 58:45
  maybe not exactly as you imagine, but that it'll deliver
• 58:48
  you to a place that's better than wherever you are
• 58:51
  at that moment.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
• 58:54
  Speaker 15: Okay, So then at some point, how do you chip in, right,
• 58:58
  how do you really trust yourself? How do you trust
• 59:03
  that whatever it is that you're going whatever bet you're
• 59:06
  going to play, that it's going to work out and
• 59:08
  if it doesn't work out, you have the ability to
• 59:10
  figure it out.
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 59:12
  Speaker 15: So we've got optimism, We've got locus of control, and
• 59:16
  then we've also got grit. And those are three pillars
• 59:18
  in the psychological framework that I think are really important
• 59:21
  to pay attention to. So grit, as you know from
• 59:23
  Angela Duckworth, passion, perseverance for long term goals. Control, the
• 59:28
  locus of control, like are you controlling what's one hundred
• 59:30
  percent of your control. Are you working towards that or
• 59:32
  caught up in the noise of the other things that
• 59:35
  are really important but you can't control. And getting those
• 59:38
  three cobble together on a consistent basis, that's a nice
• 59:43
  significant piece of work to have some durability on the
• 59:48
  long play.
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: Right in life, one of the things that you talk
• 59:51
  about a lot that is just one of my favorite
• 59:54
  subjects is this idea that we become the stories that
• 59:58
  we tell about our ourselves. Those become predictors of future
• 1:00:03
  behavior and outcomes. And I would imagine, in the same
• 1:00:06
  way that you know on the scale of optimism and pessimism,
• 1:00:10
  that these stories are mutable. I know they're mutable, but
• 1:00:16
  they're very powerful. Right, So in your kind of inquiry earlier,
• 1:00:20
  I was thinking about some of the stories that I've
• 1:00:23
  historically told myself, and a lot of them are around
• 1:00:26
  this idea that, uh, you know, I don't think I'm
• 1:00:30
  that talented, but I have this huge like work work
• 1:00:34
  ethic capacity. I know how to suffer. I know, I
• 1:00:37
  actually like suffering. I like, you know, I have like
• 1:00:39
  it's all imagined, you know, and it plays out as truth.
• 1:00:43
  But I've been able to make my way in the
• 1:00:45
  world and overcome whatever talent deficit gap that I have
• 1:00:50
  because I'm willing to and capable of outworking the next guy.
• 1:00:54
  And so I've relied on that story to achieve certain successes,
• 1:00:59
  and then that story as fundamental to that success. But
• 1:01:04
  ultimately I see myself moving towards burnout and these you know,
• 1:01:10
  having to confront these control issues in a way that
• 1:01:13
  I'm now realizing it's it's not only is it not sustainable,
• 1:01:17
  like it's not making me happy, right and I and
• 1:01:20
  I have this sense that I could be more productive
• 1:01:23
  and I could be happier and more fruitful if I
• 1:01:28
  let go of this narrative and find a new one.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 6: Cool.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 15: I mean, that's that's like if we're swinging from vines
• 1:01:36
  together and you've got you've got to beat on how
• 1:01:38
  this vine is getting created great momentum for you, and
• 1:01:42
  then you grab the next one it's not quite as sturdy,
• 1:01:45
  but you know, you need to let go of the
• 1:01:46
  one that's really strong and it's got some good month
• 1:01:48
  behind it, you know, and it's got a good anchor
• 1:01:51
  and lever on it to go to the new one
• 1:01:52
  that's a little less sturdy, but you think it's going
• 1:01:55
  to take you in the right direction, like do you
• 1:01:57
  what if you fall? You know, can you figure it out?
• 1:02:00
  And I'm not looking at you that way, I'm saying.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: For all of us.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 15: So there is you know, rational EMODEI of therapy is
• 1:02:05
  like take a look at the worst case scenario. Feel that,
• 1:02:09
  really examine the worst case scenario, and oftentimes what happens
• 1:02:13
  if you go in that kind of dark place, if
• 1:02:15
  you will and even write it down so or talk
• 1:02:18
  about it with someone that you really trust, is that
• 1:02:20
  you coming through going well. The chances of that happening
• 1:02:23
  are pretty low because I'm pretty resourceful, but if it did,
• 1:02:26
  I'd rather go for it than not go for you know.
• 1:02:28
  So there's something in there that ends up happening for people.
• 1:02:31
  But the thought that yes, can they change one thousand
• 1:02:33
  percent and you go back to the constriction thoughts or
• 1:02:36
  the expansion thoughts.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: You know, when you.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 15: Belly laugh, it's really good and like it just feels
• 1:02:43
  really good. That's space that's expansion in there. And so
• 1:02:47
  those thought that lead to the freedom to have that
• 1:02:50
  type of experience on a regular basis. Wouldn't you trade
• 1:02:54
  a lot of that for like, I don't know whatever
• 1:02:57
  quote unquote successes. You know, orderly success isn't isn't that
• 1:03:01
  like really valuable? And and if we follow like Harvard
• 1:03:05
  did that seventy five year study on fulfillment, and that's
• 1:03:09
  a long study, now, seventy five years right to study
• 1:03:11
  fulfillment and what they found two of the largest pillars
• 1:03:14
  for fulfillment in life is grocking and wrestling with the
• 1:03:17
  difficult questions in life. So not shying away from this
• 1:03:20
  is a difficult question we're talking about and I think
• 1:03:23
  we have. And the other one is deep relationships.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: It's like Susan d You know Susan David. She's a
• 1:03:30
  she's a Harvard psychologist who wrote this book Emotional Agility.
• 1:03:34
  I know the yeah yeah, but it's that idea, like
• 1:03:37
  her saying is what is it exactly? I'm going to
• 1:03:41
  butcher it, but like, essentially, grappling with difficult emotions is
• 1:03:46
  the price you pay for a meaningful life. So this
• 1:03:48
  success equation, like the idea of being fulfilled.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: And and and contented.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: In your life, requires you to face these things that
• 1:04:00
  you know, kind of our culture pushes up against and says,
• 1:04:03
  don't worry about that or take this pill, or you know,
• 1:04:06
  just pretend it didn't happen.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 15: And I think what's happening right now if we kind
• 1:04:10
  of map less than one hundred years, like from the
• 1:04:14
  Industrial Revolution to now, is that our ancestry at some
• 1:04:19
  point figured out that no machine's going to take their job.
• 1:04:23
  So they came home to the dinner table and they said,
• 1:04:25
  you know what, no machines taken ard.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: We're going to work.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 15: We're going to figure it, not in this house. And
• 1:04:31
  so we've we've been handed down that work ethic ethos.
• 1:04:35
  You and I certainly have, but many people have been
• 1:04:38
  handed that down. And then what I think what it's
• 1:04:41
  turned into over time as a generation of the has
• 1:04:44
  muted the story, or not muted, but shifted the story
• 1:04:48
  just a little bit, is that I need to do
• 1:04:49
  extraordinary things to be extraordinary. So the thought that I
• 1:04:54
  need to do more to be more, I think is
• 1:04:57
  wearing us out.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: Well I've definitely bought into that.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 15: Yeah, and so you're not alone, right yeah, But so
• 1:05:03
  there's a deep fatigue that will come from that model,
• 1:05:05
  and it's time for sure.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 5: Right now.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 15: I think the timing of this is eloquent that let's
• 1:05:10
  flip the model that we need to be more and
• 1:05:14
  let the doing flow from that place. So the be more,
• 1:05:17
  be more? What, be more present, be more authentic, be
• 1:05:20
  here more often, be more gracious?
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: Right, be more?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 15: And then whatever the doing that we want to experience
• 1:05:26
  in life, imagine the output difference. One is you get
• 1:05:29
  those moments in joy, you increase maybe the frequency of them,
• 1:05:34
  and then what would happen to the doing if they
• 1:05:36
  came from are more pure place.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: Right, That's uncharted territory for me, because I've always been
• 1:05:42
  the guy who who you know, you know, my operating
• 1:05:46
  system is if I didn't if I didn't like really
• 1:05:50
  suffer to create whatever I'm creating, then I didn't work
• 1:05:52
  hard enough at it. You know, there's more I can
• 1:05:55
  I can. I can extract more blood from that stone,
• 1:05:58
  you know, just a couple more all nighters like, and
• 1:06:02
  I can make it, you know, point zero zero zero
• 1:06:04
  one percent better? You know, and it's not working.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 15: Well, it got you here, I mean, you got your
• 1:06:10
  wherever it works.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: It's just not it's not a it's not a sustainable
• 1:06:14
  fuel source.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 15: Right, and then you know we're not We're not fragile.
• 1:06:18
  Humans are not fragile we can do extraordinary things to
• 1:06:21
  this frame of ours and but we do need to refuel.
• 1:06:29
  And so you know, how long can you go without sleep?
• 1:06:32
  You know, you can do it for a little bit,
• 1:06:33
  but not too long. How long can you go without water?
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 6: Not that long?
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 15: You know, food you can go wild. So we can
• 1:06:39
  do extraordinary things to our body that are debilitating our resources.
• 1:06:44
  But that's not the that's not that, that's not the
• 1:06:46
  big goal, right, So then what are the big movers
• 1:06:49
  for you? Like, what is it that you want to
• 1:06:51
  do in life that's driving you into you know, I
• 1:06:54
  don't know fatigue.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: I mean I think that that fundamentally, it's trying to
• 1:07:01
  find ways to.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: Provide the most.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: Help that I can to the most people in the
• 1:07:09
  most substantive way, the most meaningful way. That's what gets
• 1:07:14
  me excited. That's what gets me out of bed in
• 1:07:15
  the morning. Like I love the training and all the
• 1:07:17
  race whatever I did all this, but the doing all
• 1:07:20
  of that, you know, in some bizarre you know alchemy
• 1:07:24
  of the galaxy has put me in this place now
• 1:07:26
  where now I can be a resource for other people.
• 1:07:30
  And trying to to be the best at that that
• 1:07:33
  I can possibly be is what I'm focused on.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 15: I love the thought, you know, walk the talk, you know,
• 1:07:40
  like talk about it, but walk about it. And you're
• 1:07:42
  talking about how you want to walk about it.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 6: You know, you want to.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 15: Live that way, whatever that way is for you. That's
• 1:07:47
  like sturdy and nimble all in the same you know way.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: And I feel like at the same time, like so
• 1:07:55
  much of your work is about presence, you know, how
• 1:07:58
  can you be more in the moment, How can you
• 1:08:01
  create that space and that you know, these conversations are
• 1:08:07
  coming up more and more in my life, and they're
• 1:08:09
  transpiring in a cultural moment in which we've never been
• 1:08:13
  more distracted, and the demands on our attention have never
• 1:08:16
  been greater. Like you know, with these things in our pocket,
• 1:08:19
  it's like there's no space, there's no anytime you're waiting
• 1:08:22
  in a line, you can easily, you know, find something
• 1:08:25
  to do with your phone, and and so you have
• 1:08:28
  to exercise a lot more diligence around creating that space.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 15: What we're outmatched, you know, like technology companies that are
• 1:08:38
  really on it have tends to hundreds of PhDs that
• 1:08:43
  really understand the neurology of behavior, the thinking patterns of
• 1:08:47
  we're outmatched.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know Sky Tristan Harris, Sure, yeah, yeah, I'm
• 1:08:51
  doing a lot of work around that.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 5: That's right.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 15: We're completely outmatching. And you know, he's on it, he's
• 1:08:56
  early in the days of it, and he's going to
• 1:08:58
  take on some tech giants around it. But I will
• 1:09:01
  say that, let's say I'm bullish on technology. I think
• 1:09:05
  that like, yes, we need to move in that direction,
• 1:09:07
  but knowing that there's a counterbalance, so I feel the
• 1:09:11
  same things that you do, like the draw to the
• 1:09:13
  dopamine hit by checking my phone, by trying to catch
• 1:09:16
  up with the onslaught of emails that come through, and yes, yes, yes,
• 1:09:20
  And at the same time, what it feels irresponsible to
• 1:09:24
  not carve out enough time to train deep focus because
• 1:09:27
  that's like a multitask, thin slicing, you know, rip and
• 1:09:30
  run type of experience. So then the counterbalance needs to
• 1:09:33
  be space to be able to condition my mind to
• 1:09:38
  be more present, to be more aware of what's actually
• 1:09:41
  happening in the internal ecosystem. And you know, I'll tell
• 1:09:44
  you what. For me, at least, there's a razor's.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: Edge to it.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 15: It's fricking hard to be truthful and honest and the
• 1:09:52
  vulnerability even when nobody else is around. To be vulnerable
• 1:09:56
  with oneself is hard, and so I externally, I've been
• 1:10:01
  fascinated by the razor's edge. That was my early fascination
• 1:10:05
  about sports. So working in hostile and rugged and extreme environments,
• 1:10:10
  if you will. And what I've also come to value
• 1:10:13
  is that some of the most intense environments are the
• 1:10:16
  ones that we have within just ourselves.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: If you're sitting at home alone, there's nobody, nobody at home,
• 1:10:20
  you could do whatever you want.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: What are you going to do?
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 5: Exactly?
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: And that's the ultimate battleground, right.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 15: But like, when you create enough space to listen to
• 1:10:31
  that inner experience, that inner dialogue, that inner narrative, whatever
• 1:10:34
  you want to call it, which is you know, it's
• 1:10:36
  a human experience, you learn some stuff about yourself you
• 1:10:39
  don't want to be reminded of. You don't want to
• 1:10:42
  remember that you're a coward, that you're dishonest, that you're
• 1:10:47
  afraid that you're going to be exposed. And I'm checking
• 1:10:50
  the list for things that I don't want to say
• 1:10:52
  about me, and I'd like to play the game that
• 1:10:53
  those are not me, those are for other people. That's
• 1:10:55
  me too now And it's hard because you know what
• 1:10:59
  we want. We want to be no, we want to
• 1:11:00
  be courageous, we want to be caring, we want to
• 1:11:03
  be great as a human, as a doer and a beer.
• 1:11:07
  And you know you can't get there without some real
• 1:11:10
  discerning honesty.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 16: You know, people say, oh, Americans been totally less fat.
• 1:11:14
  You know, we're fatter than ever. Low fat is dead,
• 1:11:17
  it's all sugar. But we may have been totally less fat.
• 1:11:20
  But I went to the US Department of Agriculture database
• 1:11:22
  because they keep track of the entire food supply, not
• 1:11:25
  what people say they're eating, but what they're actually eating,
• 1:11:27
  and oftentimes there's a big discrepancy. And what we found
• 1:11:29
  is that in every decade since nineteen fifty, we may
• 1:11:33
  have been totally less fat, but we're eating a lot
• 1:11:34
  more fat sixty seven percent more fat, more sugar, more meat,
• 1:11:38
  and more calories, more of everything.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 5: So not surprising.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 16: And we're fat not because we're reading too little fat,
• 1:11:43
  but because we're eating too much of everything.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: Yes, So the idea is that it's not that the
• 1:11:48
  low fat thing didn't work, it's that people didn't actually
• 1:11:50
  do it.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 16: And the other thing is, besides eating more fat, is people.
• 1:11:53
  When they did replace fat, they were replace it with sugar.
• 1:11:56
  So you have the snack well cookies and you know,
• 1:11:58
  the intimate's cakes and things like that, and that's not
• 1:12:00
  a good choice. But I think if you actually look
• 1:12:02
  at all of the data, there's more evidence than ever
• 1:12:05
  that an optimal diet is low in fat and low
• 1:12:07
  in sugar. It's predominantly fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes, soy.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 5: Products in their natural forms.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 16: And we've been doing studies for forty years, so you know,
• 1:12:16
  having been in all these different diet wars and die debates,
• 1:12:18
  I said, you know, look, I'm done. You know, we've
• 1:12:22
  done every study that we've done has shown that these
• 1:12:25
  same lifestyle changes can reverse heart disease. We're able to
• 1:12:28
  show that for the first time type two diabetes, high
• 1:12:31
  blood pressure, high cholesterol, obesity. We're doing the other first
• 1:12:35
  randomized trial now to see if we can actually reverse
• 1:12:37
  Alzheimer's disease. We found that when you change your lifestyle,
• 1:12:40
  it changes your genes, you know, hundreds of genes, over
• 1:12:42
  five hundred genes and three months turning on the good genes,
• 1:12:45
  turning off the bad genes. In just three months, we
• 1:12:48
  found that in a study we did that we published
• 1:12:50
  that with Craig Venter, who first decoded the human genome.
• 1:12:54
  We did a study with Elizabeth Blackburn. I got there
• 1:12:56
  to Bell Prize for discovering telomeresians of our chromosomes that
• 1:12:59
  regulate how long we that we've showed for the first
• 1:13:01
  time that in just three months we can increase te
• 1:13:03
  lame raise the enzyme that repairs and lengthens telomeres by
• 1:13:06
  thirty percent, and over a five year period we show
• 1:13:09
  it again for the first time we can actually lengthen
• 1:13:11
  telomeres in a sense, reversing aging at.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 5: A cellular level.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 16: So the more diseases we study and the more underlying
• 1:13:17
  mechanisms we look at, the more reasons we have to
• 1:13:19
  explain why these simple changes are so powerful and how
• 1:13:22
  quickly people can get better.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: What do you think that the challenges are are that
• 1:13:28
  you face in trying to communicate this message, because if
• 1:13:32
  you canvass the conversations that are occurring right now, they
• 1:13:36
  do tend to swirl around this. You know, new obsession
• 1:13:40
  with eating a high fat diet and you know everything
• 1:13:44
  you ever heard about saturated fat is wrong and people
• 1:13:47
  are you know, all about keto. And you know, it's
• 1:13:50
  always there's always a new thing coming, right, a new craze,
• 1:13:53
  a new trend.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: This is something you've You've been immersed in this.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 4: For forty years at this point, and your message really
• 1:14:01
  hasn't changed from these studies that you did so long
• 1:14:04
  ago to date. I mean, they just sort of continue
• 1:14:07
  to confirm, Yes, what you've been saying all along. Well,
• 1:14:10
  it may seem new, but it's not new. I mean,
• 1:14:12
  I've been hearing this for forty years. It actually goes
• 1:14:14
  back to eighteen hundreds. It's really just it's an Atkins
• 1:14:16
  diet reducts. Whether it's an Atkins diet, a paleo diet,
• 1:14:19
  a kidogenic diet, it's all the same thing. And tell
• 1:14:23
  first of all, telling people they want to hear is
• 1:14:24
  always a good way to sell books or magazines or
• 1:14:26
  newspapers or whatever. And as those media have been so disruptive,
• 1:14:31
  they're always looking for, you know, the next thing that
• 1:14:34
  they can.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 5: Hook readers with.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 16: Number two is that the studies are shown quite clearly
• 1:14:39
  that yeah, you can lose weight on these diets because
• 1:14:42
  most people do eat too many refined carbs and so
• 1:14:44
  eating fewer refined carbs you're going to lose weight, and
• 1:14:46
  Atkins and I agreed on that it's what you replace
• 1:14:49
  them with. You know, I'd love to be able to
• 1:14:50
  tell people that you know, stake and burgers and so
• 1:14:54
  on are good for you, but they're not, you know,
• 1:14:56
  And if you actually look at the idea is to
• 1:14:58
  lose weight in ways that enhance it's your health rather
• 1:15:00
  than mortgage it. And there was a study in the
• 1:15:02
  New England Rural Medicine that Steven Smith published a few
• 1:15:05
  years ago that showed actually pictures of what happens on
• 1:15:08
  different diets, what happens in your arteries. I mean, you
• 1:15:10
  can lose weight with chemotherapy or smoking cigarettes or lots
• 1:15:14
  of ways of losing weight that aren't really good for you,
• 1:15:16
  and fetamines are a good way of losing weight. And
• 1:15:18
  what they found is that on a whole foods, plant
• 1:15:20
  based die, your arteries are clean.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 5: On a typical standard.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 16: American diet, which has the great acronym of SAD, they're
• 1:15:27
  partially clawed. And in a high fat, high animal protein diet,
• 1:15:30
  whether you call it an Atkins or keto or paleo diet,
• 1:15:34
  they're severely clogged. And even if they're weight and even
• 1:15:37
  if their blood pressure may be lower, because these often
• 1:15:39
  work through what are called non traditional risk factors, things
• 1:15:42
  that people you know, the little white blood cells that
• 1:15:46
  nibble your arteries and keep them clean and so on.
• 1:15:48
  And it's not even just about over a long periods
• 1:15:50
  of time. Even a single meal of this is high
• 1:15:53
  in fat cholesterol, can reduce blood flow to your brain,
• 1:15:55
  can reduce blood flow to your heart. There's you know
• 1:15:58
  the movie that James Cameron and Luis Iijoyos and others did,
• 1:16:02
  Game Changers, which would be coming right soon, has this
• 1:16:04
  great scene with three athletes and they give them a
• 1:16:06
  plant based meal and then they measure how the frequency
• 1:16:09
  and the hardness of their erections at night, right, and
• 1:16:12
  then they give them a meat based meal in the
• 1:16:13
  next night and found the same and did the same thing,
• 1:16:15
  and they found they had three to five hundred percent
• 1:16:18
  more frequent erections on a plant based meal than a
• 1:16:22
  meat based meal and ten to fifteen percent harder erections.
• 1:16:24
  In fact, I'm told the film crew became vegan after
• 1:16:27
  Street Across.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that will definitely get Guy's attention because it takes
• 1:16:31
  it away from this fear based approach like, oh, I
• 1:16:34
  can't do what I want.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 5: You know, am I going to live longer? Is it
• 1:16:36
  just going to seem longer?
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 16: All those kind of cliches to say, oh, these things
• 1:16:40
  are so much more dynamic than we once realized that
• 1:16:43
  when you eat this way, your brain gets more blood flow.
• 1:16:45
  You can actually grow so many new brain neurons in
• 1:16:47
  just a few weeks. Your brain gets bigger, and particularly
• 1:16:50
  those parts of your brain like the hippocampus, the control
• 1:16:52
  memory that you want to get bigger. You know, when
• 1:16:55
  people get older, they say, like, you know, what was
• 1:16:56
  where I leave my keys? And what was that person's name?
• 1:16:58
  A lot of that's reversible. Your skin gets more blood
• 1:17:01
  so you don't age as quickly. Your heart gets more blood.
• 1:17:04
  We found you can reverse heart disease or sexual organs
• 1:17:06
  get more blood flow. And when people realize that it's
• 1:17:09
  not just about living longer, it's about feeling better and
• 1:17:12
  improving the quality of life, it really reframes that debate
• 1:17:15
  from fear of dying, which is not sustainable, to joy
• 1:17:19
  of living and feeling good and pleasure, which really are right.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 4: There seems to be a lot of confusion out there
• 1:17:25
  right now about saturated fat and cholesterol. For years, the consensus,
• 1:17:31
  the scientific nutrition consensus, was that saturated.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: Fat was bad. High LDL is bad.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: And then suddenly some studies came out that caught the
• 1:17:45
  attention of the media, and there were a lot of
• 1:17:47
  headlines and a lot of articles written about this idea
• 1:17:51
  that everything you ever heard about saturated fat is wrong.
• 1:17:54
  Cholesterol is something that we need and it's good, and
• 1:17:58
  you shouldn't worry about saturated fat.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: That actually saturated fat is health food.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 4: So can you walk me through how we got to
• 1:18:05
  this point, and perhaps you know, clarify the record or
• 1:18:10
  share your perspective on this.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 16: I remember I was in Davo in the World Economic
• 1:18:15
  Forum two and a half years ago when Time magazine
• 1:18:17
  put I.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 5: Sick a Butter on their covers.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 16: Yeah, and Nancy Gibbs was the editor in chief at
• 1:18:22
  the time, and she was doing this one on one
• 1:18:23
  interview with me and she said, so, what do you
• 1:18:24
  think of our cover? And I said, well, not so well,
• 1:18:28
  and she said, well why not? I said, well, because
• 1:18:30
  it's not true. You know, the studies were showing that
• 1:18:33
  saturated fat doubles your risk of Alzheimer's disease. For every
• 1:18:37
  one pad of butter, your risk of premature death from
• 1:18:40
  all causes. We look at three hundred thousand people in
• 1:18:42
  the Harvard Physicians and Harvard Nurses Health Study, goes up
• 1:18:45
  by five percent.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 5: So these things really are important.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 16: Now, cholesterol is good in the sense that your body
• 1:18:53
  needs cholesterol. It's a building block for you know, sex
• 1:18:56
  hormones and nerve coverings and all kinds of things. And
• 1:18:59
  because precisely because it's so important, your body will make
• 1:19:03
  all the cholesterol it needs. The dietary requirement for cholesterol
• 1:19:06
  is zero, but getting all this extra cholesterol, you know,
• 1:19:10
  we found in our studies that there was a dose
• 1:19:12
  response relationship between the intake of dietary cholesterol and dietary
• 1:19:16
  fat and changes in the blockings in the arteries. This
• 1:19:18
  was also found in what was called the Class study
• 1:19:21
  that David Blankenhort did at USC many years ago. It
• 1:19:23
  was one of the first studies to show that the
• 1:19:25
  drugs could actually reverse cholesteroloreing drugs could reverse heart disease,
• 1:19:29
  and he found that the same dose response relationship. The
• 1:19:32
  more fat you consumed, including saturated fat and especially saturated fat.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 5: The more clogged your arteries become.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 16: And even a single meal, as we've been talking about
• 1:19:41
  makes a difference. So, you know, I'd love to be
• 1:19:44
  able to tell people that fat is good, that it's
• 1:19:46
  all sugar, but it's not an optimal diet is low
• 1:19:50
  in both. Now be a third aspect is animal protein.
• 1:19:54
  You know which people you know this whole fat versus
• 1:19:56
  carbons debate. I want to make sure that we cover
• 1:19:58
  animal protein because there's more and more evidence coming out
• 1:20:01
  showing that animal protein is inflammatory, It causes chronic inflammation,
• 1:20:05
  it causes oxidative stress, and independent of its effect on
• 1:20:09
  you know, the fat versus carbs, one study came out
• 1:20:11
  that showed that people who ate a lot of animal
• 1:20:14
  protein had a seventy five percent increased risk of premature
• 1:20:17
  death from all causes and a four hundred to five
• 1:20:20
  hundred percent increase risk of premature death from type two
• 1:20:23
  diabetes and prostate breasts and colon cancer. So, you know, again,
• 1:20:29
  people like to simplify things inflict like it's all one thing.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 5: It's not one thing.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 16: It's all these costs and it's not even just diet,
• 1:20:35
  but it's all these other lifestyle factors as well,