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3YPC-(WK11-WAS@MIA-RECAP) Episode 8.534 · 3 Yards Per Carry - Miami Dolphins

0:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Three Yards Perkati, a podcast covering the Miami Dolphins and the NFL.
0:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, here's your host, Chris, Alf, and Simon.
0:22
[SPEAKER_03]: My Annie had the dolphins.
0:25
[SPEAKER_03]: The greatest football team.
0:26
[SPEAKER_03]: We take the ball from goal to goal.
0:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Like no one's ever seen.
0:31
[SPEAKER_03]: We're in the air.
0:32
[SPEAKER_03]: We're on the ground.
0:32
[SPEAKER_03]: We're always in control.
0:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you say my Annie, you're talking super football.
0:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Cause we're the my Annie.
0:39
[SPEAKER_05]: And we're on.
0:40
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is three years per carry.
0:41
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm afraid of our Tiagas.
0:42
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a Clancy is here.
0:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Back from Madrid.
0:45
[SPEAKER_05]: And Chris Kaufman is here, and this is two in a row for the first time all year.
0:52
[SPEAKER_05]: As always, we are brought to you by a 305-800-pain, uh, no-paying this week, just like the Dolphins, no-paying this week, but...
1:00
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1:02
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1:16
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1:19
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1:21
[SPEAKER_05]: And look, we're getting closer to Christmas.
1:24
[SPEAKER_05]: It's right around Thanksgiving, so you might want to start thinking about stocking stuff, and why not give us some money in the process.
1:35
[SPEAKER_05]: So, go to our store.
1:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Our store is at onlyfins.printifi.me, and we get the Magdenial Troll T-shirt there.
1:42
[SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of a hit.
1:44
[SPEAKER_05]: It'd be good if like, you know,
1:48
[SPEAKER_05]: this shirt actually means something because if not, we might be doing another shirt for Mike McDaniel, but we're going to get into this this game, and we're going to talk about some of the young players, some that are well not be with us for the rest of the season, to do brans.
2:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But that made us sound like they were deep.
2:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, he isn't a contract for next year, by the way, to do brans.
2:12
[SPEAKER_05]: So maybe he's a roster player.
2:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Not as rookie deal.
2:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so he's on the team next year, but as advertised, this is something that always happens with Juju Branson.
2:24
[SPEAKER_05]: It happened now.
2:25
[SPEAKER_05]: He was not having a good game in that game against the I guess the commanders.
2:29
[SPEAKER_05]: He was actually pretty bad in that game.
2:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Miss two tackles that should have been to your gains that turn into eight yard gains and he had a Laps and coverage.
2:44
[SPEAKER_05]: He wasn't good in that game, but he was very good against the bills and
2:46
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess you want to see what he can give you next season, at least in camp.
2:52
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, let's get into this game and let's start with the debate.
2:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Everybody's been having this debate.
2:56
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that we're going to have a couple of differences of opinion here.
3:02
[SPEAKER_05]: I did not mind them going forward on fourth and one at the end of the game and I'll tell you why.
3:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Best case in our year score of the touchdown, I think the game is probably over.
3:11
[SPEAKER_05]: You don't score the touchdown.
3:13
[SPEAKER_05]: They take over at the one-yard line.
3:14
[SPEAKER_05]: They need 60 yards to try a 57-yard field goal.
3:19
[SPEAKER_05]: You kick the field goal.
3:20
[SPEAKER_05]: Now you got to kick off.
3:23
[SPEAKER_05]: And if you kick off, now you're opening yourself up to what happened against the Chargers, what happened against the Patriots, what happened later on that day to the Minnesota Vikings.
3:33
[SPEAKER_05]: They kicked off after a field goal and the Bears returned at 62 yards.
3:38
[SPEAKER_05]: They also get to play with four downs to get that field goal.
3:42
[SPEAKER_05]: So I kind of like ending it right there at the one yard line, we can, you know, go back and forth the sequence that got up to that, that last play with all the Gordon where it was just failures across the board, but what do you think of that last sequence in regulation, Simon?
4:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I didn't mind going from 4th to 4th now.
4:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought the downplay was terrible.
4:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I mean, my biggest issue was that only I've got, I had a lot of issues with the play calling.
4:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but we can, my biggest issue was that, you know, you take the hammer out.
4:18
[SPEAKER_02]: and to bring in the 185 pounder and you don't even run in, you know, straight to the A gap, you plan running sort of off tackle, but just makes no sense to me, like running off tackle the goal line.
4:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It is, to me, is one of the dumbest plays of all time, especially when you're in a tight formation.
4:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you're begging for lost yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the yardage, you're begging for the
4:59
[SPEAKER_02]: and then poorly good and has to come back in on fourth down and then stuff.
5:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think hindsight is a bit of a thing.
5:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have a massive issue with the decision per se.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if the commanders have scored, and one of the game I think might be done, you would have been fired.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we'd have been doing this show now, going, well, we don't have a head coach anymore, so what's going to happen?
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: did not all go well for the future of my bedroom.
5:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that decision, rightly or only, would have been the death now if they'd lost to his Miami career.
5:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the decision to go forward on fourth down, you know, like you, I believe that that's secondary to the third down decision.
5:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think that that set up that set the table really for um for a bad fourth down call was you know in this it in in the situation they face they had third and a short yard I mean it was inside the one yard line if you look at the placement of the ball that's that's territory where you have things on the table like a QB sneak.
6:09
[SPEAKER_01]: or, you know, some teams, the Tush push.
6:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I frankly, I think all teams should be, you should be attempting to perfect that.
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Since it's been an obvious winning strategy, and it hasn't been a cool back as hit in the head.
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, right, but I mean, I mean, well, Tush push it with the tight end, like we've done before, you know.
6:29
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, Julie Hill, Julie Hill plays quarterback.
6:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he played, he's a former quarterback.
6:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that all teams should be exploiting that until it is made illegal, which I think it will eventually.
6:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so it's short yard has a lot of things on the table.
6:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the bottom line is a short yard has, you know, a lot of things that are straightforward straight up the A gaps.
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, kind of on the table, including and probably should have been that should have been the
7:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that showed them in the Oleg Warden Carey on that third and a short yard.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they went for it with the intention or they called that third down play with the intention of going for it on fourth down.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was because, you know, Devon HN, who has produced a lot of touchdowns and is a short career and you have to give it to him.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think that they thought off tackle, uh, not quite off tackle because it was, you know, is basically being a gap.
7:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But, um, yeah.
7:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I think that you think that you have to be thinking along the lines of, okay, Devon H and play, you know, a typical strong Devon H and play, um, first.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, okay, if it didn't work out, then we still have Holly Gordon in our, in our backport and pocket and we can do that.
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Devon HN is the running back in the league, and Mike McDaniel's rushing attack is the ground game and the league.
8:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Most likely to take a lost yard in, since Mike McDaniel took over in 2022, and Devon HN, I believe, he might be the highest-prepensity of all running backs for taking lost yardage.
8:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So you were begging and not just that,
8:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the play call itself, the structure of the play call itself, you know, particularly the you're asking cold strange about a quarterback you claimed off of waivers to, you know, to go up one-on-one and win his block and that's begging for trouble.
8:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And you get lost, you get lost yardage.
8:37
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what happened.
8:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It turned from a short yard to a long yard.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you watch the spot, look at the spot of the ball, that's what happened.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: They were at a short yard inside the one yard line.
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they had a long yard outside of the one yard line.
8:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And that makes things a lot more difficult.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that they called that third down with in mind that they're going to go for it on the workout.
8:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they're thinking, okay, we're going to try with Devon H and first.
8:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll go back to Gali Gordon.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And it should have been reversed.
9:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It should have been Gali Gordon first on the short yard.
9:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It art short yard.
9:06
[SPEAKER_01]: or, you know, some sort of tush pusher, whatever, what have you, maybe even a full back dive.
9:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was set up by a bad third noun call.
9:15
[SPEAKER_01]: That was, that was really set up by a bad third noun call.
9:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Nass for the fourth down call itself, I would not have gone for it.
9:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that this is where analytics as numbers on a page can fail you because there are multiple variables that a number on a page truly cannot account for and cannot describe because it is limited.
9:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I'm speaking as a quantitative guy, I mean, you know, I'm a portfolio risk management specialist for a living.
9:52
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, a lot of people are kind of talking about, well, they had a 3% greater chance if they, you know, what I'm saying is that earlier in the aim, you had a goal line stuff.
10:03
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, fourth down, went for it and you got stood up, or you got, uh, you got stoned out of the end zone.
10:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you pay attention to that sequence itself,
10:15
[SPEAKER_01]: you got stoned again just now because you got stoned on third down.
10:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You should have been, you know, if usually you got stoned on third down, that means you got a settle for a field.
10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but they got stoned again.
10:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's twice in the day.
10:27
[SPEAKER_01]: that you got stoned out of the end zone in that sort of that gold-to-go goal-line situation against this team.
10:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't care what the previous games were saying.
10:38
[SPEAKER_01]: In this game, you just got kept out of the end zone twice, right?
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that you have to take a count of that,
10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, that's something that the analytics and probabilities won't be able to account for necessarily.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think here they would have had to account for it.
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, and ultimately you have to think about your personnel as well.
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the dolphins have at the, in the guard positions, they have Jonah Savania who has been pretty bad this year, like I think, I think it's safe to say that.
11:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's controversial.
11:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And coal strange, back up, just picked up off waivers and they're bracketing probably the smallest center in the NFL, right?
11:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So you are not strong of the middle, you are not.
11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't pretend you are, don't pretend that those analytics that tell you a fourth and a long yard is the right decision in under two minutes in that situation.
11:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't pretend that that applies to you the exact same way as it applies to the Philadelphia Eagles, who are dragging up those sorts of, those sorts of probability averages and stuff like that with their success, with the touch push and stuff like that.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not in the same boat, they're not in the same boat.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: you have to have awareness of your team, your own strengths and weaknesses, and what's already been happening on the day.
12:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think the dolphins were, I think, that they called the two-place sequence thinking they're going to go for it.
12:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And what ended up happening is what ended up happening, you know, and they should have lost on that.
12:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the commanders were kicking a field goal to win the game,
12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And no, they didn't have a good ticker and they didn't get that field goal even though, you know, people are taking 56 yarders like the 46 yarders this year.
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I think that I think that one ended up happening is what you are begging for, uh, once you account for really all of the variables and not just, you know, those numbers on a page of the average NFL team, which is including a bunch of teams that are kind of dragging up that average like the Eagles with their success of the Tush push and so on and so forth.
12:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's not this is this is not that team.
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: The dolphins are not that team and so they should not
13:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, another thing that we talked about in the preview, Chris, that I want to get Simon's take on this, was Dan Quinn taking over play calling for the commanders, and going into this game, the dolphins were 13, 13 for 13 on gold to gold situations, all touchdowns.
13:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Alligh Gordon was 9 for 11.
13:29
[SPEAKER_05]: He's 9 for 11 now on 3rd and 4th and 1.
13:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Actually 9 for 12.
13:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Two of the misses are in this game.
13:37
[SPEAKER_05]: If you watch Danquen's defense, especially on the goal line.
13:42
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's now two games where Mike McDaniels won both, but they're now 2 for 11 in the red zone.
13:54
[SPEAKER_05]: If you watch this, the sequences on the goal line, Dan Quinn keeps calling slants and guessing correctly.
14:03
[SPEAKER_05]: I got the sense he had to be on short-yardage running game on the of the Mibi Dolphins all game, and I thought Dan Quinn had an excellent game, calling defense.
14:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Your thoughts, Simon.
14:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for it was a, I thought, January that there's no moral victories in
14:23
[SPEAKER_02]: certainly not in football, but I thought that down in Queen's team, I thought that Cliff King's Barry and his play designers and his scheme, well, I just thought the coaches far outweighed the dolphins, coaches in terms of how they could form.
14:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought coming in that watching to might be looking to stay within two touchdowns, and actually I think there are lucky not to win the game frankly.
14:48
[SPEAKER_02]: They're no huddle, I know they're coming to the game, they ran, no huddle at 67%, which led to lead, but I think they were up in the 90% tile, and it stopped my area from being able to substitute.
15:02
[SPEAKER_02]: We got caught with big packages on the field, and I wanted to throw, and I wanted to run, or caught in, you know, nickel and dime defenses.
15:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And generally, I just thought they did a really good job of getting the ball out quickly out of my raretis hands that I've done, and you'd say I've done two or six for four times, I know two or six were slightly different, and they weren't just kind of guys getting being around the edge.
15:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I thought Washington were extremely unlucky to lose that game, and I thought the job that Dan Queena, Joe and Junior, to a lesser extent, and Cliff King's
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so it's funny because we had an end of it in the preview, you know, talking about your you were bringing up that it felt like to you that actually it's the other way around that Mike McDaniel owns Dan Quinn's defense and his is play calling that was not what what when I said to that was a point you brought up on the preview.
16:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the shenanigans, but also, yeah, well, they have wins.
16:06
[SPEAKER_05]: The shenanigans, for whatever reason, they're extending like their win streak against Stankwen, but Mike McDaniel, like I said, two for 11 in the red zone against Stankwen and two games.
16:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We're right, but you also, I mean, you brought up, I think it was the Cowboys game and things like that, and you know, that this is a
16:24
[SPEAKER_01]: that this seems to be a thing, and you know, I've seen this kind of out there on Twitter and on social media as well, you know, a lot of the, hey, let's explain the offensive struggles of the dolphins by talking about
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: bad showing an offense in a situation where they have to travel or there's some kind of strange situation circumstances surrounding the game.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's gone the other way.
17:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Dan Quinn, knows Mike McDaniel, so well that he stops him on the goal line or that he has a beat on Mike McDaniel's play calling.
17:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It should have been the other way around.
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: like it could have been the other way around.
17:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It easily could have been, you know, these guys know each other very well.
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So Mike McDaniel could know Dan quit his defense so well.
17:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so thoroughly that he just trounces it every time, you know, that's that's something that we have to think about as we're kind of looking at the offense of coaching and the evaluation.
17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I think that, you know, coming away from this, this is, this is a head coach versus a head coach, um, and Mike McDaniel as a head coach has truly been, uh, not good.
17:47
[SPEAKER_01]: When ever he is facing some sort of situation where a head coach has to go up against a head coach In strange circumstances or unusual circumstances.
17:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about circumstances and in fact the practice week like short week and things like that We're talking about you know owners travel like West Coast travel or international travel Playoff games prime time games cold games anything any kind of situations anything that's really other than a Sunday 1 PM or 4 PM home game
18:18
[SPEAKER_01]: The Mike McDaniel offense falls apart, and that is consistently, and that's been happening for four years.
18:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to really ask this question, and I think that we find ourselves in these situations, particularly if there's conditions, if there's cold games, you know, who can, who can simplify better, you know, and who can get their team to execute better, and it just seems like Mike McDaniel tends to be out coached in every single one of those situations.
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that that's that's the concern that we have to have, you know, even if we're talking about Mike McDaniel as not the head coach, but as the offensive, you know, quote unquote guru is yes, he does run a potent offense, but it is a potent offense.
19:05
[SPEAKER_01]: home games on Sunday at 1 p.m. or 4 p.m. only.
19:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And and that that is pretty much only the you know the the circumstances in which the the offense thrives he needs to be able to show more variability in in the situations in which he can have that offense perform.
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: and he didn't do it this week, they definitely did not do it this week and this was a hobbled commander's team that they went against and you know so so was it was on the verge of being you know one of the all-time embarrassing moments I thought in several points of the game.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But they did come out, they did gut it out and come out ahead and credit to them for that.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the question remains that even as an offensive guy is Mike McDaniel's offensive chops.
19:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they fatally flawed?
19:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Because guess what happens?
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, guess, guess what you need to be able to do to win in the playoffs.
20:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to be able to win in cold.
20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to be able to win in another team stadium.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to be able to win with an impacted practice week.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, God help you if you go to the Super Bowl, right?
20:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, you need to
20:17
[SPEAKER_01]: to be in various circumstances and conditions prime time things like that you need to be able to take that offense into those circumstances and actually when otherwise you just have a flashy offense that does you some good in September, October and the home games and then nothing else, no other situation.
20:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And this was another moment, a narrative busting moment where they could have
20:46
[SPEAKER_01]: in this game or at least, you know, attempted to.
20:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't.
20:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it ends up coming off as Dan Quinn out coached Mike McDaniel.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a bad, that's a bad one to have.
20:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that, and, you know, further, if you expand on that, you would look at the defense and how they perform the Miami defense now.
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: and how they performed from this game and you would look at sort of like the straight-up were trajectory of that Miami difference from the beginning of the year on where they just keep getting better and better and better whereas the offense kind of does this always this right it does it it isn't on the same it isn't on the same bath it's it's you know good good here Sunday home game you know and and then bad here and then good here and then bad here and at this point
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: the equity that the dolphins have and coaching staff is greater on defense than on offense.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, that's because the signs, that's what the signs are pointing to.
21:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, again, it points back to, you know, this Mike McDaniel question, if we were to fire him, it just if, you know, I'm not saying to do it, you know, maybe maybe you should, maybe you shouldn't, but if we, if we were, what are we afraid that we're losing?
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we really afraid that we're losing if he is dismissed?
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he's not showing that there's a lot that you'd be afraid to lose.
22:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this game shows that.
22:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's something about that tree because I went back and I looked at some of the scores for and I kind of figured it out.
22:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Kind of.
22:28
[SPEAKER_05]: I looked at Kalshana hand scores whenever he goes on the road or to the cold.
22:33
[SPEAKER_05]: He's one, but his offense has been not good, but that doesn't happen in the Shomuk Bay.
22:40
[SPEAKER_05]: And could it just be the quarterback?
22:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Could it just be the Shomuk Bay has Matt Stafford?
22:46
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's why he can overcome cold.
22:48
[SPEAKER_05]: He could overcome being an underdog on the road.
22:51
[SPEAKER_05]: He can overcome short weeks.
22:55
[SPEAKER_05]: While Calshan and that tends to happen, the Calshan and a lot.
23:00
[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't think we could, we could, we could be very well-conded.
23:03
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Conno.
23:04
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think we could judge Occano by the way, because he has a rookie quarterback, you know?
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, sort of like a rookie, but now,
23:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think this fair point.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It could, it could, it could absolutely be the quarterback.
23:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that some tendencies that we've established under Mike McKang, you know, with to a tongue of ILO, the pair of them.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We're very different than the tendencies that were established with to a tongue of ILO at quarterback of the two years prior though.
23:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And two of those tendencies that are a little bit different, I believe, you know, I can go back and look at the statistics to be sure, but I believe those sorts of those sorts of circumstances were not necessarily I believe there were more rugged robust kind of, you know, offense, which is to say not a great offense at all.
23:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But they didn't have this massive drop off necessarily in those circumstances, but I also notice there's the second fatal flaw of Mike McCain is offense as an offensive guru the sponsor of the offense is the fact that they get a lot less effective as the game goes on.
24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: and a lot less potent and they have the steepest drop-off and potency from, you know, in terms of, in terms of being able to score per drive, they have the steepest over the last four years, they have the steepest drop-off of any offense in the NFL.
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to, you know, drives one, two, three, four, you know, dropping off, you know, going steadily to drive five, six, seven, eight,
24:35
[SPEAKER_01]: at the end of the game.
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not one at the beginning of the game, especially the tough games, the really tough games against the good teams and stuff like that.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, you know, with these sorts of fatal flaws, you have to, and that was not the case, would do it in the two years prior.
24:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that was an opposite.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually, it was actually the offense got better as the game went on, when two was at quarterback in 20 and 21.
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's something about this offense,
25:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Hmm, it's good analysis.
25:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
25:09
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, we're going to go to break.
25:10
[SPEAKER_05]: And we're going to talk about some of the players in this game, some of the young players in this game.
25:14
[SPEAKER_05]: But first, these words, all right, and we're back.
25:20
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to get to the offense a little bit, because I thought that this game was eye-opening and a lot of respects.
25:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Not that we didn't know about the deficiencies that they have on offense before this game, or that they might have going forward.
25:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Although they're going to get a little healthy here over the by week, but I want to start on on the deep into side of the ball.
25:41
[SPEAKER_05]: All three rookies on defense blind plate.
25:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Zeke Bigger's to me looks like a guy.
25:47
[SPEAKER_05]: Man he has past rushing chops.
25:48
[SPEAKER_05]: Not that he's going to he's going to show you a bag.
25:52
[SPEAKER_05]: but he's strong and he's long when he gets his hands up like you could say there was a couple of times where Mary Oda there's a play where Mary Oda is like hering the play along because he thinks Zeke Bigger's right behind him and he's actually blocked but he flashes because he's so big that in in past rush reps man if he just gets just a little bit of a of a move a little bit of an edge into the gap.
26:19
[SPEAKER_05]: he's going to affect the play so I thought that he played well in that in that regard in the run game man he looked like a guy that wasn't used to getting doubled and getting duoed he was displaced he had a rough time can it's great I thought that this was his best game so far as a rookie and Jordan Phillips I think that's I think we're done there I think that's a
26:47
[SPEAKER_05]: guys 20 years old guys he's 20 years old so he's not even this I have his man strength yet so let's keep it to the defense of line and we'll move on a little bit here but Simon the three rookies on the defense of line year assessment yeah I mean I told about it before I think Phillips he's a you know
27:06
[SPEAKER_02]: but it's just going to be a monster honestly.
27:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I think especially his hand movement is so good but also just his ability to anchor, he can drop anchor against doubles and rip off and make tackles.
27:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you'd prove that that we can grant that has that kind of quickness.
27:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I think once he gets his leverage down his pads down his paddle over down, I think he'll be a dangerous player in terms of, look, I don't know what his ceiling is, like in terms of, you know, is he going to be
27:34
[SPEAKER_02]: is you're going to provide interior, a pass-washed pressure that's going to get you seven sacks, no, but it will be on those kind of upper e-gowns.
27:43
[SPEAKER_02]: First, the second down, just making an impact, just ripping off guys, just not allowing those symptoms to get up and run their hips through contact and those sorts of things and just coming off using this hands, standing people up and getting into the bathroom to make place, and that's what you kind of need to do.
27:57
[SPEAKER_02]: because I don't think that often is done up particularly because of getting teams into second and long, you know, second and ten, second and eleven, second and nine.
28:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think that's where his ability will come through and big is, and the biggest of the second most precious on the team against Buffalo, behind Brad Beach up.
28:15
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, he's a big human being.
28:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's gentle arrow up for all of them, which is good to see, and that's what you want.
28:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know the impact.
28:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, it's difficult for people and Tyler Warrens kind of slightly gone off the board a little bit of the last couple of weeks, but just in terms of the noise rather than anything else rather than his own performances.
28:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's very hard to judge and interior defensive lineman who's best plays very rarely sharp on the stack sheet against the guy who's catching balls and doing different things and on offense.
28:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And with the grace of respects, 75% of people don't know what they're looking at anyway, when it comes to interior defensive lineman.
28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: especially with all the kind of slogans and gays and all those sorts of things down to down basis.
29:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, his impact will never be fully appreciated by people, but I thought finally he feels like he's turned a little bit of a corner, Grant, and that's what you want, and really what you want to do is get to the end of the season.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, okay, trying to get to it now.
29:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Now let's have an offseason in the weight room and you know, and all those sorts of things
29:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is going to be like a horse race between the two of them Jordan Phillips and Kenneth Grant and that is that is to Jordan Phillips credit because it wasn't supposed to be a horse race option.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you take a guide at the top of the first round toward the top of the first round versus you take a guide down where Jordan Phillips was taken.
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not supposed to be a horse race, right?
29:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But and I think and I hate to draw like early conclusions and I was a
29:54
[SPEAKER_01]: big Kenneth Grant fan coming out of the draft.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But the early conclusions are that, you know, that, that one of these, one of these two looks like he has a lot more, I don't know if about a lot more star power, but more star power than the other and it's not the guy that was taken the first round.
30:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that that said, you know, he was this is this was one of his best games, one of his better games, Kenneth Grant, uh, he is slowly getting better and better.
30:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I think that, uh, you know, but, but what this season has also kind of shown me is that I don't know if what we're what we're reaching for, what we're working for, where the Kenneth Grant and the long run is so much, um, you know, the, the, the, the,
30:36
[SPEAKER_01]: the guy, what's the guy in the Giants' name that played with Christian Wilkins at Clemson?
30:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks for watching.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Specs are learned, so I don't know.
30:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if we're going so much for Dexter Lawrence as maybe more of an Ash on Robinson.
30:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like that's what, that's what the season as it's gone on has said.
30:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hate to draw conclusions about very early in a guy's career, because
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: the growth is not linear and and I think that I think that we say that or I think that we we have to keep that in mind, but yeah Jordan Phillips is the guy that you know now you you have your eye on toward future because he could be you know something a lot higher a lot better you know years from now.
31:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But then again, you know, hey, next year who knows, like I said, it is a horse race, but congratulations to Jordan Phillips for making it a horse race because that was not supposed to be the case.
31:33
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
31:34
[SPEAKER_05]: And moving on to the next level and we're going to talk about an edge player.
31:40
[SPEAKER_05]: There's no rookie linebackers.
31:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Although I want to talk about Dante Trader and this coaching staff, Dante Trader plays three good games and then he gets buried in the depth chart inexplicably behind Ash and Dave.
31:53
[SPEAKER_05]: You know what?
31:53
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's go there and then we'll bitch about Chop Robinson after this one.
31:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Simon, like, come on.
31:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Like,
31:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Anthony weaver's been winning me over because he's doing what Chris said he would do that the defense would get better as the season's gone on at the beginning of the season we thought oh my god these these corners are going to be dog shit they're actually decent going forward but they have to stop
32:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Jack Jones.
32:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Who gives the shit about Ashton Davis?
32:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Seriously.
32:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Dante Trader just finished playing three good games and then he gets buried in actually in a game where he should play a lot and he would actually fit pretty well against the commanders.
32:44
[SPEAKER_05]: What did you make of that decision?
32:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Because that one is just mind boggling to me.
32:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think it was probably, I don't know what it was down to.
32:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there was a couple of plays with the, you know, some of the bad angles, some of those, but I think he's played well trader, like I mean, he's played well these season, generally I may remember some.
33:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's a really good pass break happening against the Atlanta on the sidelines.
33:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a big player, a big hit.
33:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's shown more range than I expected into it.
33:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he was probably, I was only talking about him a couple of weeks ago and saying how,
33:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And I felt the same coming out, but all he was talking about how he'd seen in live, I think you said, I found him, but I was saying that, you know, Andrew with the biggest hitter of any safety coming out.
33:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think he's already physical player.
33:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've just was like he's growing into his role on the team.
33:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I said, I felt like he was a bit more rangey than I expected him to be.
33:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought you played well.
33:51
[SPEAKER_02]: again at the weekend and you know this is a kid that he's certainly rosterable next season and you know I don't know who's going to be the defensive coordinator and actually a Chris whether it were a main entity we've run if so we're going to take it to news about kind of three safety issues sort of so I mean to say it's three safety is it's not just lining three safety's up I mean he does a lot of boxwork but you know we've seen him in man coverage we talked about it a couple of weeks ago he was unfortunately manned up down the field against
34:21
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't somebody who was very close.
34:23
[SPEAKER_02]: They flowers, which is kind of not what you want to see.
34:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Then I can remember commenting that we can a comment on what the play was.
34:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But he, I remember him down the field making a play on a ball with something else.
34:33
[SPEAKER_02]: OK, that was, and he was obviously there in the mix with the, uh,
34:37
[SPEAKER_02]: horrendous Jack Jones penalty that never was obviously.
34:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was a great position there as well.
34:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's a lot to work on.
34:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's an interesting entry in looking player who probably has earned a starting spot Chris going into next season.
34:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot will depend on what you do and make a Fitzpatrick next year because with him manning the slot, in absence of Catercohu, that makes it a lot easier to play more of those safety's including Dante Trader.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting up-down decision.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if there's some sort of, you know, injury or hurt that that played into it or whether this was just purely a match-up thing.
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that the Washington offense has a particular amount of speed that it would be worried about with Dante Trader necessarily.
35:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be it could be a crosskey merit, you know, kind of worried about a big run being broken off by
35:38
[SPEAKER_01]: um... frosty merit uh... running back which can can happen when you have a little bit of a slow foot at safety
35:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, trying to re-angle in some situations, it could have been that.
35:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is a curious decision overall.
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the Dominos, those start tipping over when you figure out what's going to happen with Makeup Fitzpatrick next year, because if he is back in 15.6 million dollars, and they're going to pay him that and Caterco who is back in the slot.
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And things are settled down that way, then you've got less room for, for, for, for this is a safety opposite and make a fits battery.
36:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like right now, you could say they're doing a bunch of three safety defense, but it's not really three safety defense.
36:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's because make a fits metric has replace cater cobble.
36:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that, they had, they had cater, he got hurt.
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: They had several of his replacements get hurt.
36:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, including Jason Maytree.
36:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever we get to talk about him, but last year,
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he was kind of, he was kind of brushing up to be that back up behind Catergo and he got hurt even already burns got hurt.
36:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He was going to be a slot, you know, it's just a cursed position.
36:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that means that make a fifth factor because at the man it has had to play that position.
36:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not really a three safety defense.
37:00
[SPEAKER_01]: so much as, you know, this is what we've had to do.
37:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But playing Melefano out there and Ashton Davis, instead of Dante Trader, certainly curious, I would, I think Arrow up and still on Dante Trader regardless of what happened that way.
37:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I think that the secondary is clearly shaping up, you know, Juju Breds didn't necessarily have a great game, you know, but before he got hurt.
37:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was interesting that they were willing to start him.
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: that they were willing to start him out there over Russell Douglas, you know, that was not expected for me.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought as soon as Russell Douglas comes back, you know, that's, that's the guy they're going to go ahead and start.
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, so they're, they're clearly are trying to uncover, uh, you know, some talent in that secondary, um, and see what they might have, uh, going forward that way, uh, you know, the one caution that I would have about brances,
37:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it would, if Chris career were still here, I would say 10, you know, 100% this is exactly what's going to happen.
38:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the one game that he had, we had a tremendous game, tremendous game against key on Coleman.
38:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's a very particular type of receiver.
38:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I was always like a healthy scratch this weekend.
38:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And supposedly that was because of a discipline issue, but, you know, that's still.
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I prefer to think of it as Juju Brands ended his bill's career.
38:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I think that, uh, I think that, you know, that's a very particular type of receiver.
38:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm not trying to say that key on Coleman is a sucky receiver.
38:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying that he's a particular type.
38:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's one that matches up that jujube runs matches up well with.
38:34
[SPEAKER_01]: There's one thing Parker and class.
38:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah.
38:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he matched up well with him and had a great game, a really great game.
38:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But in this league, you're going to go against a bunch of different type of receivers, right?
38:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And a bunch of situations, including situations where you got to come up and tackle, and then you're missing those tackles, and now you're not having a good of a game.
38:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So the caution would be, don't take that one game.
38:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't do the dolphin fan thing,
39:04
[SPEAKER_01]: read into the one game and be like, you know, oh, you know, here it is, you know, we found it and and going forward and now now that he's injury, he's not even going to have any opportunities to show up or down, whether he can follow up on that one good game.
39:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, the Chris career thing would be to count on you due to be a starter next year.
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That would 100% happen, but Chris Greer is not going to be the general manager anymore.
39:33
[SPEAKER_01]: He's already been fired, and we'll see who replaces him, whether it's champ Cali or whether it's somebody else, but that is the caution because in some ways this is how we got stuck with and I'm not trying to denigrate him too badly, but this is how we got stuck with Tyrell that's
39:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we picked them up off of waivers.
39:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very curious that Seattle chose to toss about, even though he was voted a captain earlier that year, same thing we did with David Long, though.
40:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, and then he came in and he played those three games and he got those interceptions and it's like, holy crap, what a great three-game tryout.
40:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're counting on him as a starter all year long.
40:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And frankly,
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, as we go on, it's become more obvious that the linebackers and safeties are more of an issue even in the coverage scheme than the corners.
40:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And that shouldn't be the case when you're, you know, when you're picking up guys at corner that that were just sitting there playing, you know, if the phone doesn't ring, it's me, you know, with other general managers in the league, even as training camp starts, you know, even as the regular season is hurting.
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so I, you know, the caution, that's the caution on jujur prints and and I think that Tyrell dots, it is a little bit of the cautionary tale and that way.
40:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Alright, and let's finish up on on the defense with, uh, with Chop Robinson, I watched his game.
40:58
[SPEAKER_05]: Actually, decent against the run, set in the edge, but good God is, it's just, look, it happens.
41:08
[SPEAKER_05]: And I hate to just look, he could just rip off eight sacks here to finish off the season and we're like, oh, we're back.
41:14
[SPEAKER_05]: but it seems just like a loss season for Chop Robinson.
41:18
[SPEAKER_05]: He got, he hurt his knee and these are not excuses.
41:23
[SPEAKER_05]: These are facts.
41:24
[SPEAKER_05]: He hurt his knee in training camp, reacted again again against the, against the Patriots on a cheap shot that didn't get flagged by the way.
41:34
[SPEAKER_05]: and then got a concussion later on I don't think he's recovered from that knee or the you know well from the concussion he's off of the protocol but I think that that knee has lingered all year this is not the same top Robinson he's anchoring well he's playing the run well his past rushes are past rushes to nowhere so far uh he's not impacting the game in the passing game at all uh your thoughts Simon yeah it is a lost season in my opinion
41:58
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I thought he was going to be wrong, but you're a thought slamming Chop Robinson.
42:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's had an extremely disappointing, extremely mediocre season, and actually he took about the run game, and he was responsible for that Mario to for the hard run.
42:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't think he just doesn't have the, I don't know what it is.
42:21
[SPEAKER_02]: been liking Penn State and I don't like it in the NFL.
42:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even hold up physically against the run consistently.
42:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And his past rush is just, you know, there was a couple of really good, you know, really good, bendy up the arc, like she's but.
42:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm struggling a little bit to see it with him and maybe as a holdover from the knee injury, but then there's times where you just see him bend and you think, I don't think you need to be that bad if he can bend like that, you know, the play where he almost got the safety was a pretty bendy rush, but he just seems to get handled by
43:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Alfred Shenett or tackles and that's not good enough and I think that that puts a big question mark.
43:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I've recently moved in to year three because I think there was a lot of optimism as we came out of year one in year two and I think lots of people expect things to take an extra step forward.
43:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's good kid and apparently works really hard but
43:24
[SPEAKER_02]: what for whatever reason it's just not.
43:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And the problem is as well, he's have really, really good mentors.
43:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, scooty like about the leadership and the culture on this team, which we know has been a problem, but when your mentors are Calayas Campbell, Bradley Chab,
43:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Jalen Phillips, you know, in terms of how you handle yourself as a player.
43:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think you don't, by the way, I'm going to enter on and enter on and answer that answer.
43:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
43:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's five pre-spectacular mentors to have.
43:58
[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of teaching how to live, how to live off the field, how to eat, how to recover and then all the stuff that you do on the field in terms of, you know, hand placement and all those things.
44:10
[SPEAKER_02]: that would be a concern moving forward.
44:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And the run stuff really doesn't seem to be getting any better for me, when you take the whole body of work, Chris.
44:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, that would be a significant worry for me.
44:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that, listen, again, I was a big fan of his coming out of the draft.
44:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I thought the rookie year that I thought he could have.
44:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was very promising, but the conditions
44:39
[SPEAKER_01]: for that rookie year to be as promising as it was were one where we're both jailing Phillips and Bradley Chub were injured and went off the field.
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're left with when the defense of coordinator, Anthony Weaver and his assistant coaches have choices in front of them.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: they keep choosing someone else, you know, and they keep choosing Bradley Chub, they keep choosing Jalen Phillips, and other choosing Matthew Judon to eat into his not just his name, but his own belt and quit it, right in bell.
45:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So given the choice, you know, last year with Bradley Chub and Jalen Phillips out, there wasn't much choice, and I think he,
45:26
[SPEAKER_01]: He did well with what they put on him and what they asked him to do in those past rush situations.
45:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But now I'm reminded of, you know, and this goes back to the thesis behind drafting him, there was a lot to be made.
45:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He played in a similar style defense.
45:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, supposed to be maybe a guy that Anthony Weaver had something had some say over drafting himself.
45:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know any of that to be true.
45:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It could have been just Chris Greer doing his
45:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but, you know, now you're looking at it and it's starting to look like the opposite.
46:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's starting to look like actually he is not a good fit for this defense under Anthony Weaver, and maybe he never has been, and, um, and we have to, you know, again, I was a big fan of his coming up, but we have to look at what's going on in front of us, because what's going on in front of us, he always reminded me of, you know, another player that I actually did like and still
46:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, back then Jason Owen right going to the to the Baltimore Ravens and and they run similar style defense and they traded away they they they said you know this doesn't work for our defense this isn't the right kind of player for us they traded them off to the chargers of course he's done I think you know really well with the chargers.
46:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and maybe that could happen with Chop Robinson, but I think that what we're facing with now is we have to reconcile the possibility that he never was a good fit for the Anthony weaver defense despite, you know, sort of the what we were sold.
47:04
[SPEAKER_01]: when when the pick was made and and now you know so long as this defense is in place in Anthony weaver is there maybe he's just maybe this is just reality because when you say extremely disappointing Simon we're talking about 11 pressures in 11 games.
47:23
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a different word for that and it's not just disappointing, you know, like that's that this is and that's the thing that he's supposed to be good at, you know, so I think that what we have to we really have to come to grips with the potential reality here that he is not meant for this defense and the dolphins truly traded the wrong guy in jail and Phillips.
47:44
[SPEAKER_01]: to to to to another team, you know, and as as injury prone as Jale Jalen Phillips has been, there is a there we now have to, we now have to figure out whether that is what happened here.
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so going forward, it does draw, you know, between the last two hydraphics on the defense Chopra Robinson and Kenneth Grant.
48:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You're now starting, well, wait a minute, what kind of building blocks does an Anthony we ever have for his style of defense going forward?
48:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Because clearly there's, there's been trouble with chop Robinson and, you know, there's been trouble getting that fit with Kenneth Grant as well.
48:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, not chop Robinson is is in look that they invested the 25th overall pick in him if he can have and he's young enough if he can have some type of runna songs, you know, and they can recruit something they can recruit a day to pick for him if Anthony weaver is going to stick around.
48:44
[SPEAKER_05]: then I think it's something you've got to think about because I just don't see like if anything, we were just going to be around and he's just not going to play then it's just the depreciating asset over time, you know, and then you're essentially, you know, forget the 25th overall pick, you know, then you can forget about a day two pick, which is probably what he's worth right now and we flashed something for the rest of the season.
49:06
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, move it on to the the the offense, Jonas of Inapp, his best game so far.
49:14
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I said, we're going to move on to the offense and then we're going to finish up.
49:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, we don't have that many young players on offense, so we're essentially just talking about the offensive line.
49:25
[SPEAKER_05]: To understand that, really good.
49:27
[SPEAKER_05]: His best game so far this season, I think Larry Borham has played well as of late.
49:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think the coal strange has reached the end.
49:36
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the coal strange time here in Miami has come to an end.
49:44
[SPEAKER_05]: But that's usually what happens to backup guards.
49:48
[SPEAKER_05]: So two things, Simon, your assessment of doing so by an A and Austin Jackson is coming back after the buy.
49:56
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm moving Larry Born to right guard and playing Austin Jackson a right tackle.
50:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that the return of Austin Jackson is being treated in some corners like the the the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
50:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think we're ignoring what's been in front of the land notice is for the last five years, which is that he's yes.
50:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Are you seeing Jesus Christ is not good in past protection?
50:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You saying Jesus Christ can't hear the curable?
50:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Both of those things.
50:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying that Jesus Christ has missed 39 of the last.
50:47
[SPEAKER_02]: 60 games.
50:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the last two Jackson's record, sorry like that.
50:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean look, he's a mediocre player.
50:58
[SPEAKER_02]: He said one above average season he got paid overpaid and yeah, here we are.
51:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought
51:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, one of the frustrations I had on Sunday was that the dolphins, I thought, started out stemmingly and literally those kind of five, you know, pin and pull, run, play used to the outside, the kind of, the outside zone stuff.
51:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we were doing loads of funky shit in the run game, which I thought was great.
51:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Although there was one really weird play, do you see that play where it was a hand inside hand off to HN and then Malik, Washington kind of came across in front of him
51:39
[SPEAKER_02]: like he's he'd forgotten he was supposed to do a motion and then did it when the play was underway I was thought to really with
51:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I put those first fire outside zone runs with the cloning, ballroom and strange in a couple of days of brews out of front and we're just fantastic.
51:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they just disappeared.
51:56
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like two and a half quarters.
51:57
[SPEAKER_02]: He just never went back to it.
51:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So what are you doing?
51:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You've just found H has averting 10 yards of carry here.
52:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are we just not doing this every single play?
52:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And ballroom and strange, look fantastic out in space.
52:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Just killing dudes.
52:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, strange was essentially, Bobby Wagner just wasn't able to get outside.
52:14
[SPEAKER_02]: and strangers just sealing off Frankie Louvre and this was like, this is umbo date, I was going to run for like 600 yards in this game, it was not in the same.
52:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we just didn't return to it, I just was like, what are we doing?
52:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And it just went back to kind of a damage on how smart and self when doing funky shit that wasn't really working and you know, and at the point where the funky stuff wasn't working, it was just like, just like, just going back to the stuff that was brilliant early on.
52:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I thought I would probably move forward on inside, I think he's less of a liability in the house protection there, and Jackson, who's a better player, but that's saying he's the tallest dwarf, is going to come back and look at the key would be trying to get Daniels of James Daniels back, but I suspect he's probably, you know, maybe you've bridged two
53:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, having Jackson back is an upgrade, but you know, upgrading from a Honda Civic to a Toyota RA4 is not exactly going from the basement to the penthouse, so yeah, it's the improvement, but it's I don't think it's everything that people make out to be
53:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the the point is well, well, made about Austin Jackson's career here is, you know, he did have a good year.
53:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's no there's no denying that, but, you know, the injuries and combination injuries and always having been questionable and past protection, I don't think there's been a point when he's not been past questionable and past protection.
53:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to keep in mind that the Mike and Daniel offense helps their tackles as much or more than any team in the league when it comes to pass protection and that's a combination of two of getting the football out that's combination the quarterback timing built into the drop and into the play and the past play.
54:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also a combination of the help, the chips, and the spacing, and the wider sewers, that the tight ends, the running backs that go out there and run interference, the misdirection, everything that Miami does helps those tackles out.
54:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we went ahead and like paid one of them, a big amount of money even though he was a mediocre player that was being helped out by the system quite a bit.
54:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and so that's that's turning out to be a mistake, but Larry Borem.
54:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, listen, if Larry Borem gets your juices flowing, then then honestly, you must really like being four and seven.
54:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because I think that, you know, ultimately this is still, you know, a one, one decent game does not, you know, a suddenly make the guy good that way and I would be very wary about moving him inside because he hasn't played there and he hasn't showed you that he can be good there.
55:05
[SPEAKER_01]: The one game that he did have, you know, this year or whatever, a small handful of outings that you can hang your hand on for him, we're at tackle, we're at right tackle.
55:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You cannot just assume these guys go in at right and be standouts because Larry Borham and his previous time and his previous teams did not stand out when he went inside to guard in my opinion.
55:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you're necessarily getting anything better than coal strange there.
55:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, it might be considerably worse because you'd attract from chemistry, you'd attract from, you know, you start having him learn a new position and things like that.
55:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what you are learning, what you have learned, spent a lot of sweat equity learning about coal strange and about which situations you can put him in, which ones you can't.
55:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Suddenly, just resets when you, when you throw Larry Boram out there.
55:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, thankfully, the dolphins aren't really competitive.
56:00
[SPEAKER_01]: right now in terms of the playoffs and things like that.
56:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you could argue, well, who cares?
56:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So go ahead and learn.
56:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead and learn what you've got with Larry Borham at that right guard.
56:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do understand, and I think that's a salient point.
56:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, overall, I think that people are probably one overrating what Larry Borham is going to show at guard, especially right away.
56:28
[SPEAKER_01]: and people make their opinions based on the first game, you know, that's true.
56:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, and two, what is Austin Jackson going to give the dolphins coming back at Wright Tackle?
56:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like Simon said, it's almost like treated like this pivotal moment or something like that.
56:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know if that's actually true.
56:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have liked to have seen James Daniels because he is on a multi-year contract, right?
56:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you're going to have to be able to make a decision about whether we're going to carry him into next year, even though he was disappointing with the injury this year.
57:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, you know, the clock is ticking on that.
57:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to reach a point where it doesn't matter what he shows because, you know,
57:08
[SPEAKER_01]: you can't take the injury risk with the amount of money that you set to be paid next year, which isn't even necessarily that much, but still.
57:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's kind of, I don't think there's going to be necessarily watershed moment.
57:24
[SPEAKER_01]: getting Austin Jackson back and and we'll see what they do with Cole's strange at right guard.
57:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't be surprised if they they may retain that and just keep going with that and see because remember this is the hydraft pick himself and I think like with Juju Brence they want to find out they want to find out you know how deep that rabbit hole goes with with him.
57:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got the idea before we get out here I have got the misgain numbers.
57:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, how many games do you play since we signed him?
57:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's dropped him.
57:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, don't was he was he a 2020 pick?
57:58
[SPEAKER_02]: He was a 20 to 20.
57:59
[SPEAKER_02]: He was 19th over in 2020.
58:01
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
58:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're talking about, you know, seven big games.
58:07
[SPEAKER_05]: You play 11 as a rookie, something like that.
58:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's played 56 games total.
58:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And his name is like this, he missed like 50.
58:18
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
58:39
[SPEAKER_05]: but they play 16 and 17 and at this level.
58:42
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, I'm asking five picks earlier.
58:45
[SPEAKER_02]: AJ, two picks earlier, CD down our pick earlier.
58:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Justin Jeffs, three picks after.
58:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
58:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially seven games out.
58:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not seven and six games a year.
58:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's seven games a year.
58:57
[SPEAKER_01]: He plays nine, he plays 10 games and misses seven every year.
59:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's, that's worse than Ron Armstrong.
59:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So how's that worse?
59:05
[SPEAKER_01]: How can he be worse than Ron Armstrong?
59:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that way.
59:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it
59:24
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... the jet uh... they are expecting us in jackson back down wall are is doing field work so down wall are could be returning against uh... the saints as well uh... last surprise that they'd pursue wall are coming back i'm not surprised they'd pursue uh... and you know daniel's coming back because he's he does have a multi-year contract but wall are what's what's the point anyway whatever i mean he's good don't get me wrong
59:53
[SPEAKER_05]: He's only thirty nine yards away from Janus Smith's totals, so you've got to try to overtake Janus Smith.
1:00:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You know we had three first round picks in 2020, you don't get it.
1:00:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:00:09
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
1:00:09
[SPEAKER_05]: And one of them had a great game against Jim and Wattel this past weekend.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:00:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at the players that were dropped into 2020.
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Joe Barrow and Drew Thomas.
1:00:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Just in her, but Derek Brown, Tristan Wurfs, Adrian Turrell, CD Lamb, Justin Jefferson, Cesar Ruiz, Brennan I, Jordan Lough, Jordan Brooks, T-Heart Games, Deondres Swift, Xavier McKinney, Rob Hunt, Jonathan Bush, Taylor.
1:00:36
[SPEAKER_05]: We nailed that Jordan Brooks pick, Simon.
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah,
1:00:48
[SPEAKER_02]: like two else is on here.
1:00:50
[SPEAKER_05]: That Jacob Dobbins just took his fourth knee injury.
1:00:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we're going to go down.
1:00:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that bone, it's almost going to go down Simon, like the I've got picks and money off season.
1:01:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:01:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That Jeff Ireland was famous for, where he's like, you know, we're going to keep Jeff Ireland on because we've assembled all these drafts.
1:01:12
[SPEAKER_01]: we've assembled all this cap space and he's gonna really go and do something and then he just lays turd after turd after turd.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the most, you know, one of the most disastrous off-season I've ever seen and you know, as we get further away from that 2020 it's like
1:01:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it wasn't much better, you know, like, and it's like the mic, the mic may knock off season with Jack Rudy four years ago, that that was an unmitigated disaster, like they managed to miss on every single pick, except the second-edge player that they took on day two, Max Crosby, like they nailed that one.
1:01:49
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's say Jaden Hawkins, the Jerry's Sneed Tank.
1:01:59
[SPEAKER_02]: and we didn't get any of it.
1:02:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's dope.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_05]: We didn't get any.
1:02:05
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, let's do Game Balls.
1:02:07
[SPEAKER_05]: My Game Balls on offense, Patrick Paul.
1:02:10
[SPEAKER_05]: His film is just really fun to watch from this past game.
1:02:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Any of you who have the All 22 just throw it on and watch Patrick Paul all game, he's extremely fun to watch.
1:02:23
[SPEAKER_05]: uh, I put a couple of reps of his on there.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_05]: He has that nastiness.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_05]: He has the athleticism.
1:02:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, really fun to watch, really affect the player.
1:02:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Really, really, really good player.
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_05]: on defense, Jack Jones, play very, very well in this game.
1:02:40
[SPEAKER_05]: He's had a few games this season.
1:02:42
[SPEAKER_05]: The thing is that you never know, you know, when he's going to do something stupid.
1:02:45
[SPEAKER_05]: Didn't do something stupid in this game.
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_05]: He was, it was pretty damn good in this game.
1:02:50
[SPEAKER_05]: Got the big pick.
1:02:51
[SPEAKER_05]: He's still hunting that pick six, by the way, to keep that streak alive.
1:02:54
[SPEAKER_05]: He has a pick six in every season of his career.
1:02:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Three for three.
1:02:58
[SPEAKER_05]: This is fourth season.
1:02:59
[SPEAKER_05]: So you need that pick six.
1:03:00
[SPEAKER_05]: So those are my two game balls.
1:03:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought Aaron Brow was excellent.
1:03:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, A-Cham was outstanding.
1:03:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought Brow was excellent.
1:03:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Defensively is a bit hard.
1:03:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't think Jordan Brooks played particularly well, but you have 20 tackles, which is astonishing.
1:03:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, hard for me to give a, I don't think necessarily
1:03:29
[SPEAKER_02]: give it to him.
1:03:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to, I mean, I thought Minke played pretty well as well.
1:03:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got to say, but she is like picking the tallest wall from it.
1:03:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll go for, I mean, having 20 tackles in the NFL is pretty special, so I'll give it to Jordan Brooks.
1:03:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll go with Jack Jones on that one.
1:03:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You end the game in over time with that, and call the shot.
1:03:57
[SPEAKER_02]: We never talked about special teams by the Jake Bayley.
1:03:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought I was coming out.
1:04:01
[SPEAKER_02]: He was brilliant again on something.
1:04:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But Jack Jones called a shot and ended the game in that over time and it wasn't just that I mean, yes, he got called for that past interference, which I think almost nobody agreed with, you know, that past interference, which was oddly oddly they picked up the flag on one that was a real past interference and called that ball, uncatchable, even though it hit Jack Jones on the helmet, like he was he was less than three feet out of bounds when it hit him on the helmet.
1:04:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you look thinking about
1:04:33
[SPEAKER_01]: like trajectories, and that's catchable.
1:04:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's catchable for a wide receiver on the sidelines, but they picked that one up and they threw the flag on the other one, which the other one was atrocious, but either way, you know, you can cancel those out and say he had just a tremendous overall game and he has not always had those kinds of games here.
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's the kind of game that you could actually hang your hat on and say, well, these last two games.
1:04:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You hang your hat, absolutely hang your hat on that two-game stretch and say, well wait a minute.
1:05:04
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we looking at?
1:05:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So, who do those to him?
1:05:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think I think, and I said this early in the season, I think he's going to play himself into a contract somewhere else.
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Somebody's going to pay him something.
1:05:16
[SPEAKER_05]: It won't be us.
1:05:17
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we were like good because we were like some a lot.
1:05:20
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, yeah, I didn't think we were does like him like he's like just asking a question about Jack Jones.
1:05:25
[SPEAKER_05]: He just starts smiling and talking about him and he's like, you know, Jack's different and, you know, and his teammates, man, like that was that was a pretty fun locker room video.
1:05:36
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
1:05:37
[SPEAKER_05]: We will be not with you for the rest of this week because there's no game this week.
1:05:43
[SPEAKER_05]: They have a buy week.
1:05:44
[SPEAKER_05]: So you get to watch consequence free football this weekend.
1:05:49
[SPEAKER_05]: We will be back with you next week before Thanksgiving.
1:05:53
[SPEAKER_05]: So you have a whole week without us.
1:05:56
[SPEAKER_05]: And we'll talk about Saints Dolphins next weekend.
1:05:59
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll probably pick that Thanksgiving slate
1:06:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to three yards per catty.
1:06:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You can subscribe via iTunes, on pod bean, or your usual podcast provider.