Latest / ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact / Building the Space Women Didn’t Have | Chivonn Anderson on Women’s Sports & Queer Community

Transcript

Building the Space Women Didn’t Have | Chivonn Anderson on Women’s Sports & Queer Community · ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact

• 0:00
  When I was younger, I didn't understand why there weren't so
• 0:03
  many, you know, queer spaces for women.
• 0:05
  We got to go back to, you know, women couldn't own credit cards
• 0:08
  until 1975. So how the hell are you supposed
• 0:11
  to open a business if you can't have your own credit card?
• 0:15
  That's Siobhan Anderson, and this is Roar.
• 0:24
  Hi everybody, this is Danielle Davies, your host of Roar.
• 0:27
  Today's guest saw something missing and decided to build it.
• 0:30
  Siobhan Anderson is the founder of Marsha's, Philadelphia's very
• 0:34
  first queer women focused sports bar, and it's located on South
• 0:37
  St. What started as a very personal
• 0:39
  frustration, wanting to watch women's sports in a place that
• 0:42
  actually felt welcoming, became something much bigger, a place
• 0:46
  designed intentionally for community, visibility, and joy.
• 0:49
  Siobhan's path to opening Marsha's isn't linear.
• 0:52
  She brings a wide range of lived experiences to this work
• 0:54
  experience. It informs how she thinks about
• 0:56
  leadership, safety, and care without defining her by any
• 1:00
  single chapter. That perspective shows up not
• 1:02
  just in what Marsha's is, but in how it operates and who it's
• 1:05
  for. Marsha's is named in honor of
• 1:07
  Marsha P Johnson, a reminder that queer spaces have always
• 1:11
  been about more than nightlife. They're about survival,
• 1:14
  celebration, and being seen. And at a time when spaces
• 1:17
  centered on queer women have been disappearing across the
• 1:19
  country, Marshes feels both timely and deeply necessary.
• 1:24
  In this conversation, we talked about what it takes to build
• 1:26
  space when there isn't one, why women's sports became the
• 1:29
  catalyst, and how personal history can quietly inform
• 1:32
  leadership without becoming the whole story.
• 1:34
  Welcome to Rohr Siobhan. Thank you for having me.
• 1:38
  We're very excited. As I was saying earlier, I'm a
• 1:41
  Philly girl at heart. So I'm, I'm really pumped that
• 1:44
  this is here. And I spent many, many years on
• 1:46
  South St. hanging out there myself.
• 1:48
  So, yeah, I'm very excited for something new, too.
• 1:52
  But let's talk about this, by the way, as like a country, I
• 1:55
  don't know if everybody knows this, but nationwide, we've seen
• 1:58
  a sharp decline in LGBTQ spaces, especially those centered on
• 2:02
  queer women. Why do you think those spaces
• 2:04
  have disappeared? And and I obviously I'm not
• 2:06
  saying as like a static or a historian, but personally, what
• 2:10
  do you think gets lost when they do?
• 2:13
  Well, a lot of things that people don't understand when it
• 2:15
  comes to running and operating a business, your overhead is very
• 2:19
  expensive. And you know, usually you have
• 2:22
  like a triple net lease where you have to pay, you know, you
• 2:25
  got to pay your rent, your taxes, all of the maintenance,
• 2:29
  all of the insurance, plus your payroll, plus everything else.
• 2:32
  And sometimes that gets to be super overwhelming.
• 2:36
  Or if you're doing a really good job and you're successful and
• 2:39
  the the property owner comes in and it's just like, oh, hey, by
• 2:41
  the way, I'm going to raise your rent $10,000 a month, which can
• 2:45
  be devastating. Or they decide that they don't
• 2:48
  want to rent to you anymore and they are like, oh, we're just
• 2:51
  not going to renew your lease. So I don't think that it's a
• 2:55
  lack of people wanting to go out and, and be in these spaces.
• 3:01
  It's a lot of the times it's financially just like extremely
• 3:06
  burdensome and you can't really afford to continue to operate
• 3:10
  the space even though you know it's needed.
• 3:12
  How are you combating that personally at Marsha's?
• 3:16
  So I am a licensed real estate agent and I have been for the
• 3:19
  past five years. And I knew from real estate
• 3:25
  standards it's more beneficial to own than to rent.
• 3:29
  So I was able to find a commercial property that had a
• 3:36
  liquor license available and also had a business assets
• 3:39
  available that I could purchase at AI.
• 3:43
  I'd say affordable rate, but it, you know, it's, it was, it was
• 3:49
  over, you know, all the price point where we, we settled
• 3:52
  because it's all public knowledge was like about 1.37.
• 3:56
  So in the grand scheme of things, that seems like a lot of
• 4:00
  money. But when it comes down to what
• 4:02
  our mortgage is per month versus what rent would be for a space
• 4:07
  on South St., it would be double just because that's how these
• 4:12
  things operate. So being able to purchase the
• 4:15
  building, meaning that we are our own property owners, which
• 4:19
  means we set our, we set our, our rent.
• 4:24
  And we know that all of the improvements that we're doing to
• 4:26
  the building are going to benefit us in the long term.
• 4:30
  Which means we are investing in the real estate, which in two
• 4:33
  years when we have the building reappraised, the third floor is
• 4:37
  going to be completely redone. The second floor is going to be
• 4:39
  open and functioning as another bar and venue space.
• 4:43
  So that means the real estate, the value of that is going to
• 4:46
  increase, which means that's more money available for us to
• 4:50
  pull out once we refinance to purchase the next Marsha's
• 4:53
  location. Oh my God, you're so thinking
• 4:55
  ahead. That's awesome.
• 4:56
  That's. Awesome.
• 4:57
  Yeah. So, you know, kind of go down a
• 4:59
  rabbit hole, but it's it's it's important.
• 5:01
  And I didn't want anyone to have any control over what we do
• 5:05
  because I've been in those situations before.
• 5:07
  And I was like, if we're going to really make this work, we
• 5:10
  have to own literally everything.
• 5:13
  And that's kind of where we are right now.
• 5:14
  You know, it's, it's funny, I don't operate in real estate at
• 5:17
  all, but in terms of like online space and podcasting or
• 5:21
  marketing anything, there's so much talk always and it comes on
• 5:25
  repeat. But owning your own space, even
• 5:28
  on the Internet versus putting all your, you know, hear people
• 5:31
  who are like, I had 60 billion followers on blah, blah, blah,
• 5:35
  and you lose it. It's just such a risk, and
• 5:37
  you've taken kind of that risk out of it, which is awesome.
• 5:41
  And being on South St. it's like there's no greater
• 5:45
  advertisement. You're right there.
• 5:47
  Right. And let me say like there's risk
• 5:48
  involved. There's not, there's, there's
• 5:50
  always risk when you are doing any kind of business like it's
• 5:54
  just is it calculated risk? Is it worth us doing this?
• 5:58
  And the answer was yes, because I believe in, I believe in our
• 6:01
  concept, I believe in the team. And I know that we are
• 6:06
  fulfilling a need that has been lacking in Philly, in in
• 6:10
  Philadelphia, but also in the surrounding areas as well.
• 6:13
  I was just going to say, you know, Speaking of Philly
• 6:15
  specific, what did it feel like to notice the gap in your own
• 6:18
  city? I mean, it, it was always there.
• 6:22
  It's not like you, you notice it, it's just there.
• 6:25
  So it's, it just gets to the point where you want to do
• 6:30
  something, but it's, it's difficult to make sure it's a
• 6:35
  game, a chest. You want to make sure you're
• 6:36
  making the right moves at the right time.
• 6:38
  And when an opportunity, when the opportunity presented itself
• 6:43
  for me to be able to purchase the old woolly mammoths on South
• 6:46
  Street, I knew the universe was just like you've been working
• 6:50
  towards this, here's this opportunity now what are you
• 6:53
  going to do with it? And I like talking to my one of
• 6:57
  my partners last night, she lives in Texas.
• 7:00
  We were talking about it. And she's like, you know,
• 7:03
  sometimes you just have to to leap and know that the net will
• 7:06
  appear. And that's just kind of what we
• 7:09
  did. I was like, we've been doing
• 7:10
  this for a really long time. And why not?
• 7:11
  Like, why not do it for us? Yes, yes, yes, congratulations.
• 7:17
  Well, and, and you know, another thing besides the fact that it's
• 7:20
  Philadelphia, I, I feel like you hear people and I, I don't know
• 7:23
  these people, but I do. But I do hear people say things
• 7:26
  like, do we really need queer spaces?
• 7:28
  Like do we need a dedicated space?
• 7:30
  Isn't it like it's 2025? We're we all get along.
• 7:33
  How do you answer that, especially right now?
• 7:36
  That is definitely not true. Like you have you have spaces
• 7:40
  basically dedicated to kind of like everybody or every kind of
• 7:43
  like social niche or or anything like that.
• 7:48
  And it's it's about having safe space.
• 7:51
  It's about having a space where you feel as though the owners
• 7:56
  and the people working there reflect your ideals and, and who
• 8:02
  you are as a person. And when you can go into a space
• 8:05
  and be like, wow, these people really understand myself and the
• 8:10
  struggles that I face everyday just existing, just trying to be
• 8:14
  who I am and to have a space where you know, you can walk in
• 8:17
  and you can be yourself and no one's going to bat an eyelash.
• 8:20
  And, and that is extremely important and we're trying to
• 8:24
  make marshes that space for everybody in the community.
• 8:28
  And it doesn't. You don't necessarily have to be
• 8:30
  queer, but you just. It's about being yourself, being
• 8:36
  safe and feeling comfortable. Absolutely.
• 8:39
  And and also, you know, there are still some gay bars in
• 8:43
  Philadelphia, but this is all this is sports related.
• 8:46
  So you mentioned something about how this like initiated for you
• 8:50
  and and let me go back. You're a bar owner before yes,
• 8:53
  So this isn't a completely like Brit.
• 8:56
  You know you weren't florist and now you're.
• 8:58
  Absolutely not. So you were a bar owner before,
• 9:01
  this wasn't like completely a change of pace, but the sports
• 9:06
  part is also a new change of pace, right?
• 9:08
  Because didn't you go into, can you, can you talk to us a little
• 9:11
  bit about what inspired it? I had the opportunity to like be
• 9:18
  with with one of my best friends and knock something off her
• 9:21
  bucket list which was going to see a Women's World Cup match
• 9:24
  and we were able to do that. And 2019, we were able to go to
• 9:29
  France and we were able to watch the US take on France in the
• 9:34
  quarter final match in Paris. And our seats were second row
• 9:40
  centre goal like and they only cost $22.00.
• 9:43
  Oh. My God, it's.
• 9:45
  Like it was, it was crazy. That's insane.
• 9:48
  Yeah. But it was such an amazing
• 9:51
  experience being over there and watching this match, you know,
• 9:55
  in person. And then we travelled.
• 9:57
  We were still travelling in Europe when the semis were on,
• 9:59
  so we were in Prague and we were able to go to a like a pub.
• 10:04
  And you know, being the Americans that we are, I was
• 10:06
  like, oh, let's try to go reserve a table and we go in
• 10:09
  and, you know, we reserve a table and then we come back
• 10:11
  later and it's packed and like they got one TV on in there and
• 10:15
  it's the women's, you know, World Cup semi finals.
• 10:18
  So we're all pumped when the, you know, US wins, we're like,
• 10:21
  we're going home. We're going to watch the you
• 10:23
  know, we're going to watch the final.
• 10:24
  It's going to be amazing. We can.
• 10:26
  Like we've, you know, we were. There, we saw that quarter final
• 10:28
  match and we go to a local sports bar and this place was
• 10:34
  like in Philly, in Philly, OK, on South Street, I'm not gonna
• 10:38
  say the name of the bar, but they got like 40 TV's in this
• 10:42
  place. And it was a Sunday at like
• 10:44
  noon. And we were like, all right, you
• 10:48
  know, put the match on. And the bartender was like, no,
• 10:51
  I'm like, what do you mean no, Like it's the FIFA Women's World
• 10:54
  Cup. Like the US is in the finals.
• 10:56
  Like, what do you mean? No, you don't want to put the TV
• 10:57
  on. He's like, there's a Phillies
• 10:58
  game on. I'm like, it's a regular season
• 11:00
  Phillies game. You got 40 TV's.
• 11:02
  How about you put one on? And I mean, there was maybe 15
• 11:05
  of us all wearing our jerseys. It's like noon on a Sunday.
• 11:08
  Like, come on, bro. Like, you want these people in
• 11:11
  here? So that's a world.
• 11:12
  Series like right, Right. You know, and eventually he kind
• 11:15
  of gave in and put the TV, you know, switched it.
• 11:18
  And then more people started coming in for final.
• 11:21
  So eventually it was on like every single TV and the bar was
• 11:24
  packed because people wanted to watch this match.
• 11:27
  They want to support their country being, you know, support
• 11:31
  your country, support these athletes who dedicate their
• 11:33
  entire lives to get to that point, the finals in the World
• 11:38
  Cup. And the least we can do is like
• 11:40
  watch them on TV. Yeah, I mean well, and you know
• 11:45
  what? That's the other thing.
• 11:46
  It's like you're doing this, you've got this bar for a
• 11:50
  variety of reasons, right? You're a bar owner, it's this
• 11:52
  bar, etcetera, but and you're supporting the community.
• 11:54
  But I love the fact that you're also supporting women's sports,
• 11:58
  which just don't get the attention that men's sports get
• 12:01
  anyway. Right.
• 12:03
  It's because the, the powers that be, and this is what I'm
• 12:05
  I'm trying to work towards. They didn't see any way to make
• 12:09
  money in advertising. And all of a sudden that
• 12:12
  narrative has shifted. So they're like, Oh, well, we
• 12:15
  can you know, we were able to generate some, some money from
• 12:20
  from these, you know, particular from from just this this
• 12:27
  industry. So let's start promoting and I'm
• 12:30
  like, OK, that's fine. We got to get our foot in the
• 12:33
  door somehow, right? So now we're here.
• 12:36
  Now what do we do? We have to show up.
• 12:39
  We have to let them know that, yes, we are going to support
• 12:44
  these women as they are at the the height of their career.
• 12:47
  And we're going to tune in at home.
• 12:49
  We're going to go out to different bars or restaurants to
• 12:53
  watch them, to watch them do what they do best.
• 12:57
  And we have to just continue to, to, to strike because that
• 13:01
  momentum is going. And I don't think it's going to
• 13:03
  slow down, but it's important for, for us to, to, to stand up
• 13:10
  and show up and be like, look, we're here to support these
• 13:13
  women. And this is the one way that I
• 13:15
  can can show up and help them is by creating the space for people
• 13:20
  to come and, and watch your game together.
• 13:23
  Because it's nothing like watching A-Team you love with a
• 13:27
  group of people that make you feel like you're, you know, a
• 13:30
  part of the family. And whether they win, lose or
• 13:33
  tie doesn't matter. You get to experience that with
• 13:36
  people and that, you know, that stays with you.
• 13:39
  And that's what we're trying to to make marshes be for people.
• 13:44
  Quick pause because if you're listening to Roar, I have a
• 13:46
  feeling you're exactly the kind of person I write for.
• 13:49
  I send out a sub stack newsletter where I go a little
• 13:51
  deeper, more personal stories, behind the scenes thoughts, and
• 13:55
  honestly, some of the things we don't always say out loud here.
• 13:57
  If you want to stay connected between episodes, you can find
• 14:00
  it at Roar with danielledavies.substack.com.
• 14:05
  I'd love to have you there. And now back to your regularly
• 14:08
  scheduled podcast, you know, you were talking about like it, you
• 14:12
  know, get the momentum going and it's it felt like, and that this
• 14:15
  is not where I was going, but I have to just mention it.
• 14:18
  It felt like prior to 2024, there was some momentum going in
• 14:22
  the right direction in the world.
• 14:25
  You know, there were stores carrying LGBTQ friendly things
• 14:29
  and like kind of just seeming like they were part of the
• 14:33
  momentum and they're inauthenticity has been, you
• 14:38
  know, obviously not great for them, but so disappointing for
• 14:42
  everybody who kind of bought into that narrative or that that
• 14:47
  thought that this was meaningful.
• 14:50
  But it was really just about the bottom line.
• 14:52
  And I'm really thrilled for you and the community that like, you
• 14:57
  know, when something's being built from scratch, it kind of
• 15:00
  has to be authentic. I mean, what you're doing sort
• 15:02
  of has to be authentic. So anyway, sorry.
• 15:05
  I just didn't. It's just so.
• 15:08
  Yeah, anyway, let's talk about Marsha P Johnson for a second.
• 15:11
  You Marsha's named after Marsha P Johnson and who stood for
• 15:15
  Visibility, Resistance, and care.
• 15:17
  How did her legacy influence your vision for this space, and
• 15:19
  why her? I, when we were thinking of a
• 15:26
  name, I came up with like a placeholder and one of my
• 15:30
  housemates was like, he's like, you have to name the bar after
• 15:35
  someone that like meant something to, to you or the
• 15:39
  community or something. You know, he's like, it's got
• 15:41
  to, you know, it's got to have a, have a life of its own.
• 15:44
  And I just, I don't know, like she just popped in my head
• 15:49
  immediately and I was just like, you know, got to be, you know,
• 15:52
  Marsha P Johnson, She was, she was the face in a way of the the
• 16:03
  revolution, the riot, the resistance in Stonewall.
• 16:06
  And I came out when I was 15 in the 90s.
• 16:11
  And there I knew I had to come out.
• 16:15
  I just had to. And I, I was like, I thought it
• 16:19
  was an endangered species, you know, like there wasn't a lot of
• 16:23
  out people, especially teenagers in the 90s, you know, but I was
• 16:28
  able to come out and live my life and not really fear
• 16:33
  anything. And I was able to get to this
• 16:37
  point where I can purchase real estate, I can purchase these
• 16:42
  things, I can be visible and I can be my true authentic self.
• 16:46
  And I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Marsha and Silver
• 16:50
  Rivera and all the other people that were in the front lines,
• 16:55
  you know, our, our, our kings, our Queens, you know, like
• 17:00
  everybody in between, like their sacrifices and everything that
• 17:06
  they basically went through every single day of their lives
• 17:11
  to, to, to exist needs to be recognized.
• 17:16
  And this is just a very simple way for myself and my team and
• 17:23
  our community to say, you know, thank you to all of those those
• 17:27
  warriors that that stood up and said no more and gave me
• 17:32
  personally the ability to live my life the way I have.
• 17:35
  And when when thinking about her and thinking about the space
• 17:38
  and, and you know, and obviously like there's there's heaviness
• 17:42
  to that, right? But there's also a celebration
• 17:44
  and joy and, and a party. It's a bar, it's fun.
• 17:48
  How did you think about kind of safety, inclusion and
• 17:50
  accessibility when you were designing the space?
• 17:54
  Well, the space there is really not like there's nothing like
• 17:57
  physically that we can do to the building.
• 17:58
  The building is kind of like what it is, but we went in
• 18:02
  there. I, I know my strengths, I know
• 18:04
  my weaknesses and my weaknesses are like designed in every sense
• 18:08
  of the word. So I'm a.
• 18:11
  Weaknesses are designed, yeah. So I, I was able to connect with
• 18:18
  a local interior designer and a local local graphic artist and
• 18:25
  we just talked about what we wanted the space to feel like.
• 18:28
  And color scheme is very important, like making small
• 18:33
  little, little changes to this space to make it feel like, you
• 18:39
  know, you're going into because it's, it's, it's a real house.
• 18:42
  And I wanted to feel like you're going into, you know, like, I
• 18:45
  like to describe myself as your baby crazy aunt.
• 18:48
  That's like, come on in, let's do some, let's have some fun
• 18:51
  before you got to go back home to your parents.
• 18:54
  It just has that like fun, exciting vibe.
• 18:56
  And the energy is extremely important.
• 18:59
  And when you walk into a space where the employees feel safe,
• 19:06
  they feel seen, they want to be there, they want to work, they
• 19:11
  want to have a good time. That kind of radiates out to the
• 19:16
  to the customers that are to our guests that are coming in.
• 19:19
  And we always say like if someone doesn't feel safe
• 19:24
  because of something that's going on, please come and tell
• 19:26
  us immediately. We will address any issue as, as
• 19:31
  they are brought to our attention because we don't want
• 19:35
  people to feel like they're, if something's going on that
• 19:38
  they're going unseen. So we, we do our best to make
• 19:44
  sure that everybody is having a good time.
• 19:47
  They feel like they can go in here and truly be themselves.
• 19:50
  And if something feels off, come tell us.
• 19:52
  And we will do our best to make sure that you feel comfortable
• 19:57
  where you are because. Like this is Marcia's is an
• 20:01
  extension of who I am as a person, and I always want people
• 20:05
  to feel like they are safe when they're with me.
• 20:08
  So that's what I want Marcia's to feel like for people.
• 20:11
  Well, especially and you know, we were talking earlier about
• 20:15
  before we went on air that you know, you've had some personal
• 20:18
  experiences where you were not safe, you did not feel safe and
• 20:21
  and more so people did not have your back when you went to them.
• 20:26
  So how has that perspective show up in Marsha's and how has that
• 20:34
  made you? You know, we also talked about
• 20:37
  things coming full circle and it it all you know, all our past
• 20:40
  informs us as who we are now. You wouldn't be who you wouldn't
• 20:43
  be the wonderful spectacular exact you that you are right now
• 20:47
  without all of these good and bad things happening in the new
• 20:50
  life. Right, right.
• 20:51
  So even though terrible things happen, that is our perspective,
• 20:55
  hopefully in our lives that we can take with us.
• 20:58
  At least that's what I hope for myself anyway.
• 21:01
  So how does that how does that work for you?
• 21:04
  Like, even when you say, you know, you want people to tell
• 21:07
  you right away if they feel unsafe.
• 21:09
  I mean, right off the bat I can hear it because I I know your
• 21:12
  story, but does it show up in other ways?
• 21:18
  It's, I don't know, it's, it's hard to, to describe what
• 21:25
  happened. What happened to me was the fact
• 21:28
  that a predator was allowed to survive in an environment where
• 21:34
  it should have been destroyed. And people just were like, oh,
• 21:39
  that's not my problem. That's not my problem.
• 21:40
  That's not my problem. I'm focused on my career and
• 21:44
  that's all that matters. But there are opportunities in
• 21:50
  your life to do the right thing, even though you know it's not
• 21:53
  going to end well and you have to live with yourself.
• 21:58
  You're the only person that goes to sleep with what you did and
• 22:03
  wakes up in the morning with how you feel about it.
• 22:05
  And we don't really have a lot of control in our lives.
• 22:11
  We have the ability to make decisions and react to how other
• 22:14
  people make decisions. And I've always just wanted to
• 22:22
  operate in a way where things are open and safe.
• 22:27
  And if, if there's anything going on in, in your life,
• 22:31
  whether you know me or not, like you can come up to me and you
• 22:34
  can talk to me and I will do my best to try to figure out a way
• 22:37
  to help you through whatever is going on.
• 22:42
  But I don't know, it's like fear.
• 22:44
  Fear is something that you can't let rule your life because if
• 22:49
  you're afraid to do anything, then you're never going to do
• 22:51
  anything. And I was just like, if I could
• 22:56
  go up against the military at 21 years old, then I'm pretty sure
• 23:00
  I can open a bar with people that I love when I'm 44.
• 23:06
  Right, right. And you did, you did that like
• 23:09
  that's impressive and that's and first of all, I just want to say
• 23:13
  you should never have had to. So that's a disgrace on on their
• 23:18
  part. But also look at I mean, talk
• 23:22
  about strength, like good, good for you.
• 23:26
  So and thank you, thank you and. You know, and I think about it
• 23:29
  all the time and I was like 21 year old Siobhan.
• 23:32
  I was just like, it just got to the point where you get yeah,
• 23:36
  but you also get pushed and and you know that like, yeah, I'm a
• 23:40
  baby, but I'm also an adult and I have a responsibility to do
• 23:45
  what is right. I was raised by parents that
• 23:48
  instilled in me right and wrong and how to stand up for people
• 23:55
  that are being bullied or can't stand up for themselves.
• 23:58
  And sometimes you got to sacrifice yourself for the for
• 24:03
  the larger picture. And I and I do the same thing
• 24:08
  over again, knowing exactly the consequences of my actions
• 24:13
  because it's the right thing to do.
• 24:16
  Well, there need to be clones of you then.
• 24:20
  That's because you don't hear. I mean, I, I actually do talk to
• 24:24
  a lot of women who I think are doing the right thing and it's
• 24:26
  always inspiring. But you know, I, I feel like
• 24:30
  even though 21 is young and it is or 21 as an adult, I have a
• 24:34
  20 year old son and it's like, yeah, he's an adult, but he's
• 24:38
  like a man child. So it's when you look back at
• 24:43
  even your 21 year old self, you're like, oh, like, oh, come
• 24:46
  here. Like you're so young.
• 24:48
  You have so right. So that my niece.
• 24:51
  Is about to turn 21, you know, and like she is the age of I was
• 24:56
  when I was going through everything and it's it's insane
• 24:59
  to to think about like being her age and doing what I did like
• 25:04
  completely alone because I didn't tell my family until way
• 25:08
  after the fact. So like nobody nobody knew what
• 25:11
  was going on. It was one of those things where
• 25:13
  you kind of keep it a secret because you're kind of ashamed.
• 25:18
  And it took a lot of it took a few years of intense therapy for
• 25:22
  me to really, really tell my mom everything that happened.
• 25:27
  She knew something's happened, but I had to tell her, you know,
• 25:31
  all the, I'm not going to go into it because we don't need
• 25:35
  to, but like the terrible, terrible, traumatizing things
• 25:38
  that happened to me. And once I, once I did that, I,
• 25:44
  I let go of that trauma. That trauma did not control me.
• 25:48
  I controlled it. And I, through a therapy, I was
• 25:52
  able to put that experience in a little box, put it on a shelf
• 25:57
  and leave it over there because it's always going to be with me,
• 26:00
  but it's not going to be in control of me.
• 26:02
  OK, real quick, if you're listening and thinking more
• 26:05
  women should be hearing conversations like this, the
• 26:08
  best way to support the show is just to follow or subscribe
• 26:11
  wherever you are. It really does help it reach
• 26:13
  more people. Thanks so much.
• 26:14
  OK, back to the show. Do you feel like that?
• 26:18
  And you know, that kind of lived experience and, and having that
• 26:22
  kind of extraordinary bravery at that very young age helps make
• 26:28
  you a more thoughtful founder or leader.
• 26:31
  I think so. I, I remember the first time I
• 26:35
  was like asked to be captain of like a softball team.
• 26:39
  And I asked my dad like what? Well, why did they, why did she
• 26:42
  ask me? And he's like, well, she sees
• 26:45
  leadership and she sees that you can communicate with the team
• 26:50
  and that they'll respect you and they'll listen to you.
• 26:54
  And I was like, what? And he's just like, don't don't
• 26:57
  stress about it too much. But he also like instilled in me
• 27:02
  something that, sorry, I got to plug my computer in that he was
• 27:07
  like, you got to understand that when you ask people to give you
• 27:11
  100%, their 100% is different than yours.
• 27:15
  Doesn't look the same. But if you know that they are
• 27:18
  giving you everything they have, then thank them for it.
• 27:22
  And that has really resonated with with me in my entire life
• 27:28
  has how I look at at things. You got to be a good follower
• 27:34
  sometimes to be a good leader. You got to know when to step up.
• 27:36
  You got to know when to be quiet.
• 27:38
  And you have to know that everybody is different.
• 27:43
  Very, very and, and OK, so, so now you're open, You've got,
• 27:47
  you're open and congratulations. What has surprised you the most
• 27:53
  about how people have responded since you've opened?
• 27:56
  I mean, the amount of thank you's that I get when I'm in the
• 28:00
  bar from everybody. And I mean, it goes from, you
• 28:04
  know, kids that are 21 to people that are in their 80s that come
• 28:09
  in and, and just thank, thank me for for opening the space.
• 28:14
  And I thank them for existing, for being out, for being
• 28:17
  themselves, because it takes bravery to be your true
• 28:22
  authentic self. And I want them to know that I
• 28:25
  recognize that. And I am grateful and thankful
• 28:27
  for them and that, you know, every dollar that they spend at
• 28:31
  marshes goes back into marshes and will go eventually go back
• 28:34
  into the community. So like, I want people to see us
• 28:38
  so they know who is behind this idea of marshes.
• 28:43
  And as we grow, they can grow with us and know that we're not
• 28:48
  the person behind the curtain. You know, like we have faces,
• 28:51
  we're real, we have emotions, and we're trying our best to
• 28:55
  make sure that we do right by people.
• 29:00
  I, I love it and I love that you're kind of, I mean, for me
• 29:04
  personally, being a Philadelphia local person, it's, it's so
• 29:07
  meaningful that like the City of brotherly love can actually act
• 29:11
  like that. Because so often, you know, we,
• 29:13
  I actually, I work at a store sometimes we have a clip, it's
• 29:16
  an eagle's hair clip and it says no one likes us.
• 29:18
  We don't care. It's so funny because for the
• 29:22
  City of Brotherly Love, like that's the reputation, but I
• 29:26
  think that's for people outside. Outside, absolutely.
• 29:30
  We're family. Yeah, exactly.
• 29:32
  Exactly. It's like, I can make fun of
• 29:34
  you, that's fine, but if someone else from the outside comes and
• 29:36
  makes fun of you, we got ourselves a problem.
• 29:39
  Exactly, exactly. But I feel like, you know, the
• 29:41
  idea of what you're doing at Marsha Marsha's is bigger than a
• 29:44
  bar. It's bigger than the 1.
• 29:46
  So what are your plans for the for the future?
• 29:48
  Because you mentioned already the second one.
• 29:50
  How many plan to? I mean, I'm trying to like we
• 29:56
  are building a brand and I want to franchise.
• 30:00
  I want to have multiple locations in Philly, tri-state
• 30:04
  area and if we can franchise nationally, that's my goal.
• 30:09
  And I am working with people to you know, we're already starting
• 30:13
  to to lay the groundwork with that.
• 30:16
  I under, I understand what it takes to build a successful
• 30:19
  company, to be able to have a franchise, to be able to like we
• 30:23
  don't have any investors. I've got partners.
• 30:25
  So like we are like self funded, we've got an SBA loan.
• 30:28
  So like there's again, there's no one else like really pulling
• 30:32
  the strings and eventually we will take on investors, but
• 30:36
  that's going to be in a way where fully our discretion, you
• 30:41
  know, if it's a woman that's like, you know, I had, I love
• 30:45
  your ideas. We're doing this, we're doing
• 30:46
  that. It's like, all right, we're
• 30:47
  going to sit down and we're going to talk about it and and
• 30:50
  wait things out. But you have to start strong
• 30:54
  from the beginning if you're going to build a if you're going
• 30:57
  to build a brand, people need to know you know what you're doing.
• 31:00
  And that means hiring the right people to do the right jobs.
• 31:02
  So I hired an interior designer, I hired a graphic designer, I
• 31:07
  hired APR team. I have an amazing chef.
• 31:10
  I've got partners that have been in this industry for a very long
• 31:15
  time. So we know how to do all of
• 31:17
  these things and we make it seem easy when it's incredibly
• 31:21
  difficult. It is incredibly expensive, but
• 31:27
  you have to, in my experience, you have to start in a way where
• 31:34
  people are like they know what they're doing and we do.
• 31:37
  And I have a foresight of where I want this business to go.
• 31:41
  And it's going to take us a long time to get there, but we're
• 31:45
  already, you know, we're already making moves towards doing
• 31:52
  bigger and better things. And I have the team in place
• 31:56
  that allows that allows me to think about all the block
• 32:00
  parties that we're going to throw coming up in, you know, in
• 32:04
  April and May and June. You know, everything that's
• 32:06
  happening in, in Philly, we are going to be at the, you know,
• 32:10
  right in the middle of it. Like South Street is going to be
• 32:14
  a huge factor in this year, 2026, and Marsha's is gonna be
• 32:21
  right up front. And I want people to know that
• 32:24
  we're, we're professionals and we know that what we're doing
• 32:27
  and we just want people to have fun.
• 32:29
  I thought and tell me like what you've done there so far in the
• 32:32
  space because you say you've got the whole row house, right?
• 32:36
  Yes. So the first floor is
• 32:38
  operational, the we're working on getting the 2nd floor open.
• 32:43
  We just do, you know, a few things and I knew that buying
• 32:45
  the building that I was going to have to invest money into the
• 32:48
  building in order to get the 2nd floor operating.
• 32:52
  So we're a couple of months away from that being open.
• 32:55
  So the second floor is going to be, we're going to have another
• 32:57
  bar up there. It's going to be a full open
• 32:59
  space. So we'll have dance parties,
• 33:02
  we'll have events. You can rent it out for, for
• 33:05
  private events. And then the third floor, that's
• 33:08
  all of our offices. Oh my gosh.
• 33:11
  So it will. Will the marshes on South St. be
• 33:13
  kind of like the original hub then?
• 33:15
  And you'll have the offices there to operate.
• 33:17
  Yes. Awesome, that's a lot of
• 33:20
  foresight. How long have you been planning
• 33:22
  this? I mean the idea of wanting to
• 33:27
  create a business to grow pretty.
• 33:29
  Well. It's, it's been something I, I
• 33:31
  think I've been working towards my entire life.
• 33:34
  I just, I'm in the right place at the right time with the right
• 33:40
  people. And I, I have the experience of
• 33:45
  working at different companies, watching them go from a smaller
• 33:50
  operation to a larger national operation.
• 33:54
  And I worked for them. I was for a movie theater called
• 33:58
  the Alamo Draft House. And they are based in Austin and
• 34:02
  now they're like a national, national company.
• 34:05
  And my business partner Trish, she's my my main partner.
• 34:08
  She was there, the national food and beverage director, so we
• 34:15
  understand how to operate on a larger scale.
• 34:19
  And with the amount of talent that we have under one building
• 34:23
  for such a small space, it seems kind of redundant.
• 34:27
  But when you're looking at it as a larger picture, it makes sense
• 34:31
  because I already have my my director of operations there.
• 34:34
  I already have my beverage director there, I already have
• 34:36
  my chef there that knows how to do multiple things and operate
• 34:40
  multiple locations at the same time.
• 34:42
  So we're building that foundation really strong.
• 34:46
  And moving forward, we're just going to present ourselves as a
• 34:52
  as a business that if you are an investor that wants to really,
• 34:56
  you know, do something cool, you're going to want to come up
• 34:59
  and talk to us. That I think that's great and
• 35:02
  and I think it's great. It's in such a signal about,
• 35:05
  again, the city of Philadelphia to the nation.
• 35:08
  What do you for For queer women who've never had a space like
• 35:11
  this in their city, what do you hope Marshes represents, even
• 35:14
  from from a distance? That that there is faith.
• 35:20
  Like we're still here. We're still trying to figure it
• 35:22
  out. It's just it's hard.
• 35:24
  And when I was younger, I didn't understand why there weren't so
• 35:28
  many, you know, queer spaces for women.
• 35:30
  We got to go back to, you know, women couldn't own credit cards
• 35:33
  until 1975. So how the hell are you supposed
• 35:36
  to open a business if you can't have your own credit card?
• 35:40
  You know, So it's just like a lot of these things have have
• 35:43
  factored into having safe spaces for, for queer women.
• 35:48
  So with Marsha's, like being able to to own the bricks, own
• 35:54
  everything is something that I'm trying to have other people
• 35:57
  think about. If you're trying to open a
• 35:59
  space, like if there's a way for you to own everything, then own
• 36:03
  everything. Have a team that understands and
• 36:07
  has experience in these industries, so you know what
• 36:11
  you're getting into and, and how to be successful and know that
• 36:16
  it's going to take a couple of years for you to to, to break
• 36:19
  even. That's just, you know, turn a
• 36:20
  profit. That's just kind of how it is.
• 36:22
  But if you're aware of that going into it and you set
• 36:25
  yourself up the right way, then you are setting yourself up for
• 36:30
  success. It's not the lack of people that
• 36:31
  are going to come to this space. It's the fact that overhead,
• 36:35
  sometimes it's just too, it's just too much and, and sometimes
• 36:40
  people get into an industry that they aren't truly familiar with
• 36:44
  and sometimes just just unfortunately doesn't work.
• 36:49
  Oh yeah, I mean restaurants and bars, I mean they're notorious,
• 36:52
  right? They're just, it's not without
• 36:54
  good intention that they're gone in.
• 36:56
  Is your goal for franchising for ownership of each location?
• 37:04
  So I mean, the idea is that you when you franchise and you just
• 37:08
  sell off parts of the franchise. So if someone who comes in,
• 37:11
  they're like, oh, we want to be part of the Marsh's franchise.
• 37:13
  So you do a whole, you know, thing and then you come up with
• 37:16
  a franchise agreement and then you go out and then you help
• 37:19
  them set everything up. Training.
• 37:21
  There's protocol things that they have to do in order to stay
• 37:24
  within the franchise agreement. But yeah, like still having
• 37:28
  ownership over the franchise, but then also giving franchisees
• 37:32
  the opportunity to be individuals, to do things that
• 37:37
  are unique to them with it. Why?
• 37:39
  I would think with the franchises that we're just
• 37:41
  trying to create a blueprint in the structure.
• 37:44
  Got you. For people to.
• 37:46
  Would you want them though to own their building?
• 37:48
  Like just out of curiosity, you're hoping.
• 37:50
  OK, got it. Because that way it at least
• 37:53
  there's always risk, like you said, but it alleviates that
• 37:56
  particular risk, especially if people, you know, unfortunately
• 38:03
  in 2025, Oh my God, it's 20262026.
• 38:08
  You hear a lot of negative rhetoric.
• 38:12
  And so that just kind of eases that for you, you know,
• 38:17
  ownership, I mean, something and and yeah, I like that.
• 38:21
  And and last question for you, if someone walks into Marsh's
• 38:24
  for the first time and leaves feeling just one thing, what do
• 38:27
  you hope that feeling is? These people get me.
• 38:33
  That's awesome. That's awesome.
• 38:36
  I want to come in. I'm coming in.
• 38:37
  I'm coming up. Please, please do.
• 38:40
  Oh yeah, So wait, just real quick, like for people who are
• 38:42
  local, what are your hours? So we are open seven days a
• 38:46
  week. Monday through Friday we open at
• 38:48
  4:00 and we close at 10. Monday and Tuesday we close at
• 38:52
  midnight. Thursday and Friday or no?
• 38:55
  We close at midnight Wednesday and Thursday.
• 38:59
  Friday we close at 2. Saturdays we open at noon, close
• 39:02
  at 2:00. Saturday, Sundays we open at
• 39:04
  noon, close at 10. All those hours are on our
• 39:06
  website. OK, and I'll link to all this on
• 39:08
  the show notes and then if you've got, you know, we'll
• 39:11
  check and everybody who's watching check the show notes
• 39:13
  for any details and we'll keep you updated on marshes.
• 39:16
  You're going to have to get to South Street.
• 39:18
  If you don't know what that is, you're in for a treat in
• 39:20
  Philadelphia. It's.
• 39:23
  It's iconic. It's iconic.
• 39:24
  It's one of those things, you know, people think of Philly,
• 39:26
  they think of Rocky, the Art Museum sets, cheese steaks and
• 39:28
  South St. Got to go to South Street.
• 39:31
  I know, I know you have to. So thank you so much for being
• 39:34
  here, Siobhan. I really appreciate it.
• 39:36
  Oh, you're very welcome and I am so grateful for for you having
• 39:39
  us on the show us meet the royal we.
• 39:42
  Yeah, exactly, exactly. Thank you so much.
• 39:46
  I loved how Siobhan talked about what it actually feels like to
• 39:49
  walk into a space and just B, no explaining, no adjusting, no
• 39:54
  performing, and how powerful it is when women decide to create
• 39:58
  those spaces for themselves and for each other.
• 40:01
  And next week we're going somewhere we don't always go,
• 40:04
  but probably should. We're having a very real, very
• 40:07
  open conversation about women's bodies, sex, and all the things
• 40:11
  we're not taught to talk about but absolutely should be, with
• 40:14
  three sexual Wellness experts in our sex round table.
• 40:19
  Until then, if this episode made you think of someone, send it to
• 40:22
  them. That's how these conversations
• 40:23
  keep going. We'll see you next week.