Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 352 - The Dangers of Spiritual Lukewarmness

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Ep. 352 - The Dangers of Spiritual Lukewarmness · The Living Waters Podcast

1:04
Speaker 1: We go through the Word, but the Word needs to go through us.
1:06
Speaker 1: We need to pray in the Word continually.
1:08
Speaker 1: Leonard Ravenhill, the revivalist preacher, who we're very familiar with.
1:12
Speaker 1: He said the only reason we do not have revival is because we are willing to live without it.
1:18
Speaker 1: Ouch, what will a hungry man eat if he's hungry enough?
1:23
Speaker 1: Anything In and out, anything right.
1:26
Speaker 1: The best seasoning is hunger.
1:28
Speaker 1: So when you begin to hunger and thirst after the righteousness of Christ, then what the world attempts to give you will not satisfy.
1:38
Speaker 1: I want to be just done, and this is where we're at right.
1:40
Speaker 1: We want to surround ourselves with people who have a high, lofty, sovereign view of God, that God can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, to whomever he wants, through anyone, at any moment.
1:53
Speaker 1: And we're saying well, here am I and I'm done.
1:57
Speaker 1: Saying, here am I send Him, here am I send me.
2:00
Speaker 1: Use me for your glory at all costs, no matter the cost, because time is quick.
2:05
Speaker 1: 2 Timothy 3,5,.
2:07
Speaker 1: Having the appearance of godliness but denying its power.
2:12
Speaker 1: Avoid such people.
2:15
Speaker 1: What does lukewarmness do?
2:17
Speaker 1: It puts on the jersey, but it's not ready for the game.
2:20
Speaker 1: And so many Christians are treating this like a game, like it's a playground, but it's a battleground.
2:25
Speaker 1: So we need to gird up and go Like it's a playground, but it's a battleground.
2:27
Speaker 1: So we need to gird up and go.
2:33
Speaker 2: As much as I try to avoid thinking of the three of you, inevitably it happens.
2:40
Speaker 2: It happened this morning, when the three of you popped into my mind.
2:44
Speaker 2: Pray for your enemies.
2:45
Speaker 2: As I was shaving yes, love and pray for your enemies.
2:54
Speaker 2: With a pair of tweezers.
2:55
Speaker 2: That's what he shaves, yeah, and I couldn't help but wonder how much the three of you must knowing you guys as well as I do must talk to yourselves.
3:00
Speaker 2: And the reason why that came into my mind is because I was talking to myself this morning as I was shaving, and you guys understand my shaving excursions.
3:10
Speaker 2: It's an event, is it Because you're a heavy?
3:14
Speaker 3: bearded, aren't you?
3:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have a big beard.
3:15
Speaker 1: No, he gets ingrown hairs.
3:17
Speaker 2: Mark See Mark's known me what 25 years in ministry together you get ingrown hairs.
3:21
Speaker 2: Oh, I have sensitive skin.
3:23
Speaker 3: I have to use a pen.
3:29
Speaker 2: This is such a personal thing, is it you really?
3:32
Speaker 1: want to talk about.
3:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do very much so.
3:33
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm shaving and I cut myself.
3:34
Speaker 1: No, how do you do?
3:34
Speaker 2: that with an electric razor with no blade reminds me of the guy and I cut myself and I caught myself going.
3:39
Speaker 2: No, why?
3:41
Speaker 1: right, because I allowed yeah out loud.
3:43
Speaker 2: I thought why in the world do we talk to ourselves like there must be some sort of scientific?
3:49
Speaker 2: We used to have someone that worked for us.
3:51
Speaker 3: Years ago, I yelled out when I left my cell phone at home once I was driving my car and I thought no.
3:58
Speaker 1: But what does that?
3:58
Speaker 2: do it really helps.
4:00
Speaker 2: It just releases something.
4:02
Speaker 2: I felt better.
4:03
Speaker 4: I will say there's talking to yourself, and then there's talking to yourself.
4:07
Speaker 4: You're probably closer to the talking to yourself.
4:09
Speaker 2: And then there's like talking.
4:10
Speaker 2: You're probably closer to the talking, that's why you bring that up.
4:14
Speaker 2: No, but seriously like, do you guys ever catch yourself like talking?
4:20
Speaker 3: Isn't that what the subconscious does?
4:21
Speaker 3: It just yaps to you every all day, 24 hours a day.
4:25
Speaker 3: No, I'm asleep.
4:25
Speaker 2: I think we do it without you know, day, 24 hours a day, but I think we do it without you know.
4:29
Speaker 2: Oh, why did I do that?
4:30
Speaker 2: Oh, it was ridiculous.
4:31
Speaker 1: No, we're normal.
4:31
Speaker 1: When I'm studying at home and I can't be interrupted, I don't have an office, I have a kitchen table and I have an office chair at my kitchen table, which?
4:40
Speaker 3: I find quite crazy.
4:41
Speaker 3: He's got an eating problem.
4:42
Speaker 1: But when I'm in deep thought and I don't want to be interrupted, there's five kids running around.
4:51
Speaker 1: I talk to myself out loud and that's how they know not to interrupt it's kind of like John Wesley's mom when she was in prayer she'd throw her apron over her face.
4:57
Speaker 1: Oh right, and that's how the kids knew not to interrupt.
4:59
Speaker 3: Don't they steer when you do that, when I throw the apron over?
5:02
Speaker 1: your face.
5:03
Speaker 2: Now we've been having a problem in my house with Rachel, especially because now with with a voice to text and talking to Siri and like seriously, I can't tell you guys how many times I'm like what and I start answering her.
5:15
Speaker 2: It's like nah, I'm talking to Siri over here.
5:17
Speaker 2: It's like so we're living in a in crazy times.
5:20
Speaker 3: I have 10 minutes of our conversation recorded for history and text where I didn't push off the microphone.
5:25
Speaker 2: Oh, seriously, that's happened to me too.
5:27
Speaker 3: What that's personal I know Like what personal yeah, like what Ray.
5:33
Speaker 3: Talking about you.
5:34
Speaker 2: And what you do at night.
5:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
5:36
Speaker 2: So, guys, honestly, really, how long does it?
5:41
Speaker 2: Well, you guys don't shave anymore.
5:44
Speaker 2: Well, you trim right, trim all the time, Otherwise my face disappears.
5:48
Speaker 2: See, there's always something, because I thought, oh, I'll grow a beard, I won't have to shave.
5:51
Speaker 2: But then you've got to trim.
5:52
Speaker 1: I shaved this morning.
5:52
Speaker 1: This is my shadow.
5:54
Speaker 2: Oh, I shaved once a year.
5:57
Speaker 4: I think I shaved in April, I know Oscar has one hair.
6:01
Speaker 4: He's named it.
6:02
Speaker 2: Larry.
6:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, larry, I love Terry.
6:09
Speaker 2: Larry, that's Harry.
6:10
Speaker 2: I pulled him over to try to make a mustache Sometimes it takes me about an hour, hour and a half.
6:13
Speaker 4: No, no way.
6:13
Speaker 4: No, no seriously, but also okay.
6:15
Speaker 4: I just met somebody recently that said they would have to shave twice when they were in the military.
6:20
Speaker 3: My cousin, because by like noon he would start being given a good hard time.
6:23
Speaker 3: But how long was he in the military?
6:31
Speaker 4: He shaved twice for three years.
6:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, like twice a day.
6:32
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, twice a day where he'd get to like one o'clock and they'd walk by and go.
6:34
Speaker 4: Did you shave this morning?
6:35
Speaker 4: So he was demanded to just go ahead and shave twice a day.
6:36
Speaker 3: I bet you you would have to shave twice a day so seriously, you do not spend an hour and a half, no I have?
6:42
Speaker 2: yeah, it's because I gotta pull out the hairs oh and then I go.
6:45
Speaker 2: It's probably perfectionism.
6:46
Speaker 2: Do you know?
6:46
Speaker 2: I haven't done up shoelaces.
6:47
Speaker 2: This is all you can come up with.
6:48
Speaker 2: That's it.
6:49
Speaker 2: I haven't done up shoelaces for years.
6:50
Speaker 3: Do you know that?
6:51
Speaker 2: Oh no.
6:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, I once worked out that it's two weeks to spend tying shoelaces.
6:56
Speaker 1: So I thought I don't want to spend my life tying shoelaces.
6:59
Speaker 3: He did the math, so I buy sneakers that are slightly too big.
7:02
Speaker 2: I beat the system.
7:05
Speaker 2: You need to get Velcro Ray.
7:07
Speaker 3: No, no, yeah, I remember Ray's sneakers that are too big by the way are the baby walker ones With the soft soles.
7:15
Speaker 4: That's right All right friends.
7:19
Speaker 2: Time for a cool, classy comment.
7:22
Speaker 2: This comes to us from Joy.
7:26
Speaker 2: Hello friends, this podcast is the ultimate cure for insomnia.
7:29
Speaker 2: I often listen to podcasts during the day and then listen to them again as I'm falling asleep, and I never get past five minutes.
7:36
Speaker 1: So truly, you are correct in advertising the podcast in that manner.
7:41
Speaker 2: I've been listening to this podcast for a while and have been very uplifted.
7:46
Speaker 2: It has made me laugh out loud and I've cried through episodes sometimes.
7:49
Speaker 2: As a middle school teacher, I might occasionally share the dad jokes from this podcast to my students, which makes them roll their eyes and makes me laugh.
7:57
Speaker 2: The Lord has used these episodes to encourage me in the sharing of the gospel, convict me and to grow more in awe of our Savior.
8:03
Speaker 2: I was able to present what the gospel is to students as a part of the curriculum, but please pray for my students and this generation I am also Gen Z that we would see our need for a Savior and be in awe of Christ and desire to live in faith that is sold out for Him, fitting for today's topic Sharing the gospel and living life in light of eternity.
8:23
Speaker 2: Pray that, even though there is a curriculum change, that I would still have opportunities to share the gospel with students without fear.
8:29
Speaker 1: How awesome a teacher wanted to share the gospel.
8:31
Speaker 2: Thank you for all you do.
8:32
Speaker 2: Grace and peace be with you all.
8:33
Speaker 2: Your sister in Christ, joy.
8:34
Speaker 2: Ps.
8:34
Speaker 2: If you are in Alaska, oscar, oscar should go to Caledon Brothers Coffee.
8:40
Speaker 2: Easy needs to keep making sure Ray does not go anywhere close to a moose, and Mark and Oscar could both go to Moose's Tooth Pizza and find something they like.
8:50
Speaker 2: Please advertise if you go to Anchorage for an event and I would be blessed to go as well, ray.
8:56
Speaker 2: Was that where we went?
8:57
Speaker 2: Was it Anchorage when we went to Alaska?
8:58
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was Anchorage, but it was Alaska.
9:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I tried to pat a moose Actually that's an exaggeration.
9:05
Speaker 2: I was about 20 feet from it.
9:06
Speaker 2: You kept going closer.
9:07
Speaker 2: I had to stop you.
9:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it was a Dave and Goliath thing, just no fear.
9:11
Speaker 2: It would have been Ray Comfort's loose tracks.
9:13
Speaker 2: Remember when Ray was on the bull.
9:14
Speaker 1: On a what On the bull?
9:16
Speaker 2: The bull.
9:16
Speaker 2: He rode a bull.
9:17
Speaker 1: Oh, the bull, the owner said whatever you do, don't touch the horns.
9:21
Speaker 1: And what did Ray do?
9:24
Speaker 3: First thing, Like a steering wheel.
9:27
Speaker 2: He's so used to being on a bike.
9:29
Speaker 3: That's it.
9:30
Speaker 3: So what are they there for, anyway?
9:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, steer, grim, steer to the steer.
9:34
Speaker 3: It's a steer, it's a bull.
9:36
Speaker 2: Yeah Well, thank you, sister Joy.
9:37
Speaker 2: What an encouragement.
9:38
Speaker 2: That's one of the things that I delight in is seeing people take what we aim to do, stir them to share the gospel and then apply it actually, and in contexts like that, wanting to reach our students.
9:50
Speaker 2: Ray, you're looking at me.
9:53
Speaker 3: Oh, someone gave me a pencil with an eraser at both ends and I thought to myself there's no point.
9:59
Speaker 1: Good dad joke for the day.
10:00
Speaker 2: Ray, that's good, good one, ray, and now erratically revolutionary resource.
10:06
Speaker 2: This podcast is brought to you by the one big beautiful bill Ray.
10:13
Speaker 2: Tell us about it.
10:14
Speaker 2: Tell us about it, it's giant money.
10:17
Speaker 3: It's just wonderful.
10:18
Speaker 3: It's a great track to give out, because when you give it out, people are thrilled to get it.
10:21
Speaker 3: And what happens?
10:22
Speaker 3: They walk through a crowd and people start where are they getting those?
10:25
Speaker 3: So come to the source and ask for more.
10:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
10:28
Speaker 3: It's wonderful and you go through a drive-thru and you say to the person can you break a big bill?
10:33
Speaker 2: And it makes them laugh.
10:34
Speaker 2: They're really, really cool.
10:36
Speaker 2: Now, Mark, I think you're the one who forwarded to us something exciting that happened regarding the $100 bill.
10:42
Speaker 2: Oh, that's right.
10:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, share the story.
10:43
Speaker 1: Well, there was somebody that wrote in to the ministry.
10:46
Speaker 1: It wasn't me.
10:47
Speaker 1: I think we all received the letter, but it was it was from Daniel.
10:50
Speaker 1: Yeah from Daniel your son, your brother-in-law your friend, my enemy, and so the guy he gave the dollar bill, the bill, the track to a guy who designed the $100 bill, the US $100 bill.
11:04
Speaker 2: The actual guy who designed it, the actual US $100 bill yeah, he drew who was on it.
11:10
Speaker 2: He drew what?
11:11
Speaker 3: The gentleman Benjamin Franklin.
11:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ben, I think well, I think he laid out the whole bill.
11:15
Speaker 2: He did yeah he was in charge of the whole thing.
11:16
Speaker 2: He helped design it and guided the whole process.
11:19
Speaker 2: And he was thrilled to get it, and he that people gave it to him and was holding it.
11:31
Speaker 3: Next time tell him to sort of sneak in livingwaterscom.
11:36
Speaker 2: Right into the building.
11:37
Speaker 2: But no, how cool is that.
11:39
Speaker 2: You know the odds of him getting one.
11:41
Speaker 2: And then he's like, and I think a lady said to them well, I have some news for you, and she brought them.
11:46
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was her husband or not, but what a joy that's absolutely nothing.
11:50
Speaker 3: I got an email this morning and it was a guy who loves the ministry, who's at the academy, and he left a Gospel of John a million-dollar Gospel of John, on this caregiver's car on the door handle.
12:03
Speaker 3: She came out during the night, saw it and called 911.
12:06
Speaker 3: What she thought it was a drug deal or something was going on.
12:10
Speaker 2: She thought it was a real stack of money.
12:11
Speaker 3: She thought it was a stack of money and the guy sent pictures of it.
12:14
Speaker 3: The police came, the officer reached out, took it, turned it over and burst out laughing.
12:18
Speaker 3: He said the guy is down at headquarters.
12:21
Speaker 2: They're going to love this, that's great, she didn't even want to touch it called the police.
12:25
Speaker 4: My kids one time were sliding the big $100 bills onto people's windshields.
12:31
Speaker 3: While they were driving.
12:32
Speaker 1: While they were driving.
12:32
Speaker 4: yeah, so they were just like going through a parking lot and handing it out.
12:36
Speaker 4: And my son goes and puts one down and looks over and there's a lady sitting in the car and he's like whoa.
12:41
Speaker 2: That's so sweet.
12:43
Speaker 1: You think of the trouble seriously, the trouble seriously that has started because of our hundred, our fbi seized a bunch of fbi sees them.
12:49
Speaker 2: People have tried to cash them.
12:50
Speaker 4: I mean there's been news stories.
12:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, I use them for lunch all right friends uh oh wait, oh, the big beautiful bill.
13:00
Speaker 2: That's what we're talking about make sure to get it and all that other good stuff.
13:03
Speaker 2: Don't forget the living waters mug, from which you can chug that in a study bible.
13:06
Speaker 2: Don't forget Waters TV, where you could see us actually not just hear us on the podcast, but see us.
13:12
Speaker 2: It gets worse If you want to right.
13:14
Speaker 2: I couldn't.
13:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't forget the podcast YouTube channel, friends.
13:19
Speaker 2: It's growing, you guys.
13:21
Speaker 2: It's growing Thousands upon thousands of people Like a tumor.
13:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
13:27
Speaker 2: So make sure to check that out and check out all those things at livingwaterscom.
13:32
Speaker 2: All right, today, friends, we're talking about the dangers of spiritual lukewarmness.
13:42
Speaker 3: And, to help me discuss this, my three lukewarm friends Mark Ray and Austin.
13:44
Speaker 3: I couldn't be bothered preparing anything Lukewarm, right, he's like just the word right?
13:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, that term has become so common to us as believers.
13:54
Speaker 2: We hear it, we use it, sermons are taught on it, we accuse people of being it, but I'm challenged today, honestly, to look at the log in my eye, because I've come to realize, when it comes to this, that's not something I typically do with myself Like to re-examine my heart, challenge myself again and say where do I stand in this regard, and so I'm excited.
14:20
Speaker 3: How do you mean?
14:20
Speaker 3: Can you explain that?
14:21
Speaker 3: Where do you stand regarding lukewarmness?
14:23
Speaker 3: You want a desire to be lukewarm.
14:25
Speaker 3: You don't want to be lukewarm?
14:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I want to be lukewarm.
14:27
Speaker 2: How?
14:28
Speaker 1: am.
14:28
Speaker 2: I doing in my progression to lukewarm.
14:30
Speaker 4: He named one of his kids, Luke Warm Swing.
14:32
Speaker 4: No one of my kids is named Luke.
14:34
Speaker 2: That's what I worried about.
14:35
Speaker 2: But no, like you know, really just looking and saying, have I drifted, have I strayed from a passion for the Lord?
14:44
Speaker 2: Because I think you know it talks in Scripture about comparing ourselves with ourselves, and I think that's oftentimes a danger.
14:52
Speaker 2: It's setting up a standard and then comparing ourselves to that standard and saying, well, everyone around me look at them, they do this and that, or don't do this and that.
15:00
Speaker 2: I'm cool.
15:00
Speaker 2: So I think a good place to start is what is lukewarmness?
15:05
Speaker 2: What is that thing that we all really are called biblically to flee from?
15:12
Speaker 2: And we'll discuss it, obviously in accordance with the words of Jesus.
15:15
Speaker 3: It's being lukewarm.
15:17
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you.
15:17
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us.
15:18
Speaker 2: Man Moving on.
15:19
Speaker 2: So yeah, so let's jump into it.
15:23
Speaker 2: Oscar, take it away.
15:25
Speaker 4: Oh, he chose me.
15:26
Speaker 4: You did rocks isn't it?
15:29
Speaker 3: Me and Mark?
15:30
Speaker 4: both went like this and then we were going to Rochambeau to see who goes first.
15:34
Speaker 1: But then Easy chose wisely.
15:36
Speaker 4: That's why he chooses me first.
15:37
Speaker 4: I love that you started with like let's explore definition.
15:42
Speaker 4: I think we should go right to revelation to figure out what it says, because I think often when we hear lukewarmness we think immediately it can only mean like we need to have an exuberant amount of zeal, we need to be on fire.
15:56
Speaker 4: But Jesus' concern in Revelation 3 isn't necessarily about your temperature, it's about where you put your trust.
16:04
Speaker 4: Read the text yeah, we're going to.
16:05
Speaker 4: I'm prefacing.
16:07
Speaker 1: It's like the introduction, a pastoral introduction.
16:09
Speaker 1: That's the pastor in you.
16:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, these Christians weren't necessarily cold and hot in faith.
16:15
Speaker 4: Their problem, according to Luther, is that they were self-satisfied and believed they can be self-sufficient.
16:22
Speaker 4: In other words, they built their hope on their own actions rather than on the actions of Christ.
16:27
Speaker 4: And I think one of the big things about Revelation is like often we think any verse in there is immediately this doom and gloom text, and that's probably the fault of some preachers.
16:37
Speaker 4: Whenever we preach on Revelation, it's a fortune telling doom and gloom, everything's coming to an end.
16:42
Speaker 4: But Revelation 1.1 tells us that the entire book is a quote revelation of Jesus Christ, which means, no matter where you are in the book of Revelation, what you know for sure is that the core message is this is a gospel centered, hopeful message, not one of fear.
17:00
Speaker 4: And if you're ever reading Revelation and you lose sight of that, you've lost sight of verse one revelation of Jesus Christ.
17:09
Speaker 4: And so yeah.
17:11
Speaker 2: Oscar, I'm so glad you brought that up because I highlighted something that I wanted to make known in this regard, and that's at the beginning of Revelation, chapter one.
17:20
Speaker 2: As the introduction is being given and Jesus is going to speak to the churches, he says John says to him who loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood and has made us kings and priests to his God.
17:29
Speaker 2: John says to him who loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood and has made us kings and priests to his God and father.
17:33
Speaker 2: To him be glory and dominion.
17:34
Speaker 2: So I mean he's prefacing everything he's about to say to the churches, which includes Laodicea with hey, he loved us, he saved us, he washed us with his blood.
17:43
Speaker 2: So that's important, really important to remember.
17:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
17:46
Speaker 4: And then you get to 314 to 22, which is that lukewarm language.
17:51
Speaker 4: And I love what Luther does with this.
17:54
Speaker 4: He points out that often we think again it's like this need for absolute zeal and the problem with that is that the anxious Christian might walk away thinking like am I doing enough?
18:04
Speaker 4: Am I truly saved, am I good enough?
18:07
Speaker 4: And if you walk away after hearing about lukewarmness, thinking am I doing enough, am I truly saved, am I good enough?
18:10
Speaker 4: And if you walk away after hearing about lukewarmness thinking am I doing enough?
18:12
Speaker 4: Man, we've lost focus because the point isn't your effort but Christ's sufficiency.
18:17
Speaker 4: In other words, the real problem isn't temperature, it's trust.
18:21
Speaker 4: He says in 317, you say I am rich, not realizing you are wretched, pitiful and poor.
18:29
Speaker 4: Luther's commentary points out that a lowercase g God is anything that you rely on for sufficiency of salvation, for goodness or for refuge in distress.
18:43
Speaker 4: In other words, these Christians were lukewarm, not because they didn't have enough zeal, but because they trusted in their own works and not the work of Christ.
18:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, amen, yeah.
18:53
Speaker 2: And there are commentators, too, that also talk about the fact that a lot of these Laodiceans were extremely wealthy, and hence the language of you're trusting in yourself, you're riches, and so there was that element, too, also of what's associated with that.
19:11
Speaker 2: I love that you made that point.
19:12
Speaker 2: There's that introspection of looking to self, but that leads to all kinds of things.
19:18
Speaker 2: So often the manifestation of lukewarmness is a life that is lacking in zeal, but it's like the problem is they're not looking to Christ, they're not trusting in Him and then being zealous for good works because they're in love with Jesus, they left their first love, you know, in a sense, A little historical context here.
19:37
Speaker 1: Right, laodicea we talked about it being kind of the financial district we have a lot of riches going on but one thing that they lacked was water.
19:44
Speaker 1: They didn't have any natural springs.
19:46
Speaker 1: So there were two towns that were nearby them, between six to ten miles away with Hierapolis, and then you had Colossa, and so Hierapolis would have natural hot springs and Colossa would have cold springs, and since there was no natural springs, there were aqueducts that would go between the three cities.
20:04
Speaker 1: When the water would arrive, it would arrive lukewarm, it would arrive with impurities.
20:09
Speaker 1: It would arrive with impurities.
20:09
Speaker 1: It would arrive with things that you would not want bacteria, even disease.
20:13
Speaker 1: Even so, when Jesus, when this word is being spoken, when the church is hearing this, they're understanding this because they did not want, they would never dream about just drinking the water, as is.
20:24
Speaker 1: When it would arrive, and here we have, it turned over and saying you're lukewarm.
20:30
Speaker 1: The very thing that you hate, the very thing that you preach against, the very thing that you detest, is what you have become.
20:39
Speaker 1: We got to be careful with that, and that's what riches does.
20:41
Speaker 1: Right, you were going to say something.
20:44
Speaker 4: No, I love that you pointed that out, because it actually gives context to the reason why Jesus is using the phrase lukewarm.
20:49
Speaker 4: Because, to combine what both of you just said, these people are rich, they're wealthy, they're influential and a cultural embarrassment is their water, and so it's like finding the rich elite living in Hollywood and going you smog-filled lung person.
21:03
Speaker 4: It's like you're reminding them you might have it all, but you still live where you live.
21:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like.
21:10
Speaker 2: Cain and Ham.
21:11
Speaker 2: To me it does, yeah, and I think a good point is made.
21:16
Speaker 2: The two words used in the Greek for hot and cold actually carry with them the connotation of boiling hot and freezing cold.
21:23
Speaker 2: So often we think, oh, we need to be hot.
21:26
Speaker 2: The issue Jesus is saying both are positive.
21:30
Speaker 2: It's the lukewarm that is the negative.
21:32
Speaker 2: It's like have usefulness.
21:34
Speaker 2: Be hot for what's needed for hot water, be cold for what's needed for cold things.
21:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I liken it to milk.
21:40
Speaker 3: You like your milk, either hot and stimulating, or cold and refreshing, but lukewarm milk with yellow lumps in it is going to make you sick.
21:50
Speaker 2: Sour milk.
21:51
Speaker 2: Seriously, I got it.
21:52
Speaker 3: And so, if you liken it to marriage, I've never, ever become lukewarm about my wife.
21:56
Speaker 3: I've always been hot for her and it's never gone, and that's what we should be like.
22:02
Speaker 3: If I fell asleep reading a love letter from her not that she sends them I'll have to tell her.
22:08
Speaker 3: To send one.
22:11
Speaker 3: That would be an insult to her and that's why, when we read the word, we've got to realize that's a love letter to us and so we should do everything we can to cultivate our marriage.
22:19
Speaker 3: And I've found a great key to cultivating a good marriage and, as we're talking about this morning, I've been married for 110 years, Sue 55, me 55.
22:28
Speaker 3: And that marriage has always been a good marriage because of one thing, and that is you give up your will.
22:34
Speaker 3: When you get married, you say, not my will, but yours be done.
22:37
Speaker 3: And what I love to do is jump to something that Sue wants me to do, Like last night she said the front door handle's loose.
22:46
Speaker 3: That's her saying fix it.
22:49
Speaker 1: That's how I interpret it.
22:50
Speaker 3: She doesn't say that, but immediately I say I am the man, I am the guy that gets the screwdriver and fixes this.
22:55
Speaker 3: And I got up and fixed it and I delighted to do that because it made her happy.
22:59
Speaker 3: It was just a little thing but it's continually like that.
23:02
Speaker 3: She said we've got to put the trash out.
23:04
Speaker 3: Tonight that's when I take the trash out and I run to do it because I know it pleases her and I delight to do her will.
23:10
Speaker 3: And that's the key to successful Christian living.
23:13
Speaker 3: You delight to do the will of God.
23:15
Speaker 3: You run to do His will in the light of the cross, because that was evidence of God's love for us.
23:20
Speaker 3: We love him because he first loved us.
23:23
Speaker 3: And how can we not be zealous for him with all our heart, mind, soul and strength because of his love.
23:29
Speaker 2: Wow, I just got a text from Sue.
23:31
Speaker 2: It's my will to give Easy a lot of money.
23:33
Speaker 2: Come on Ray.
23:38
Speaker 4: Speaking of lukewarm milk, the $1 million.
23:39
Speaker 3: Gospel of John is yours.
23:42
Speaker 4: Ray, speaking of lukewarm milk.
23:43
Speaker 4: The Navarros call that chunky milk and we've convinced our kid it's a delicacy.
23:50
Speaker 2: When the budget's tight.
23:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's chunky milk.
23:52
Speaker 3: We got chunky milk.
23:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still don't understand your guys' milk.
23:56
Speaker 2: I just got something to say.
23:57
Speaker 3: I had a friend, you guys know him, he's a plumber, and we're talking about marriage or something, and suddenly he gets a call from his wife and this is how he answers what's up?
24:07
Speaker 1: To his wife.
24:09
Speaker 3: So I said I love you, I love you, I love you.
24:12
Speaker 3: And you know what he said.
24:12
Speaker 3: Ray says he loves you.
24:15
Speaker 3: He just carried on, didn't miss a beat or even smile.
24:18
Speaker 2: Oh, that's good.
24:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, redwick and Green put it this way.
24:24
Speaker 2: They said the church in Laodicea was providing neither refreshment for the spiritually weary nor healing for the spiritually sick.
24:32
Speaker 2: It was totally ineffective and this distasteful to its Lord.
24:37
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, mark, really, in essence, we forget that the church has a mandate, and the mandate is that we be the salt and light that we're called to be.
24:50
Speaker 2: In that regard, I mean, we're talking about water, obviously here, but this applies in terms of the effectiveness we're called to have in the world.
24:58
Speaker 2: There are times when I step back and I say honestly, what would the world look like without the church?
25:04
Speaker 2: And then I go a step further what would the world look like if the church was fully being the salt and light it's supposed to be?
25:12
Speaker 2: That's a good point, so I'd love your thoughts on that.
25:13
Speaker 1: People tend to have a really great start when they become a Christian and then things tend to fade away.
25:18
Speaker 1: I think the church at Ephesus was like that.
25:21
Speaker 1: You know, when we look at the seven letters that were written, listen to this To the church, to the angel of the church in Ephesus write I know your works, your toil, your patient endurance and how you cannot bear with those who are evil and have tested, those who call themselves apostles and are not.
25:36
Speaker 1: And you found them to be false.
25:38
Speaker 1: And he goes on.
25:39
Speaker 1: He says hey, I know your patience, I know how you don't want to put up with the evilness that's around.
25:43
Speaker 1: However, don't want to put up with the evilness that's around, however, I have this one thing against you you have left your first love.
25:48
Speaker 1: Now here's the thing.
25:49
Speaker 1: They had a really, really great start, right.
25:51
Speaker 1: Paul, timothy and John were pillars there at the church at Ephesus.
25:55
Speaker 1: Really great start.
25:56
Speaker 1: You can't have better leaders, better pastors better letters, better commentary to start off.
26:09
Speaker 1: But then something happened.
26:09
Speaker 1: Right, you left your first love.
26:10
Speaker 1: Your love didn't leave you.
26:11
Speaker 1: You left your first love.
26:12
Speaker 1: And I often tell people, I say you know God's love, his patience, his wisdom.
26:16
Speaker 1: You know it's not hiding from us, it's hiding for us.
26:19
Speaker 1: But oftentimes we turn our back from that and we go wandering away and we say God, speak to me.
26:24
Speaker 1: He says, well, I've spoken to you, but you're not heeding what I've spoken to you.
26:30
Speaker 1: But if you want to know my will for you, just return to the Word, remember where you fell, return and repent.
26:36
Speaker 1: Have that change in the mind which will lead to that change of action.
26:46
Speaker 1: I'm utterly convinced, both through experience and what I see in God's Word, that God does not speak English as much as he speaks heart-ish.
26:50
Speaker 1: I think we might have talked about this in the past, and that is, we think through our many words that were heard.
26:56
Speaker 1: Right?
26:58
Speaker 1: Was it Martin Luther that said I have so much to do today that I must spend the first three hours in prayer?
27:01
Speaker 1: Yes, or something along those lines.
27:03
Speaker 1: I mean our minds begin to go wait what in the world?
27:06
Speaker 1: And it's not by our many words that we're heard.
27:09
Speaker 1: It's as if God's ear is down near our heart, right, that groaning, that innermost man who says Lord, look, I think I want this, but whatever you want, your will be done.
27:19
Speaker 1: I want this, but this, whatever you want to do, nevertheless not my will, but your will be done.
27:24
Speaker 1: Isaiah 29, it says this people draw near with their mouth and with their hearts.
27:29
Speaker 1: They are far from me.
27:31
Speaker 1: Lip service.
27:33
Speaker 1: It doesn't move the heart of God, so we need to be careful with that.
27:37
Speaker 1: So how many times have we entered into prayer where we're just thinking through and when what actually comes out is just a word here, thinking through, and what actually comes out is just a word here and a word there, and a groaning here and a groaning there until I'm just out of words?
27:52
Speaker 1: Somebody once said pray until you've prayed, until you've had that breakthrough to where you can move on to something else.
28:03
Speaker 1: And when we talk about being salt and being light, there in John chapter 8, salt and be in light there in John chapter 8, we have these four huge candelabras.
28:11
Speaker 1: The feast of the festival of lights, the feast of tabernacles had just finished and the lights are out.
28:18
Speaker 1: But you think that eight days it would take place where the priest would enter in and he would pour in the oil, he would light the wick and it would light up all of Jerusalem, right, and then, when he would do that, the people would remember how God led the children of Israel through the wilderness.
28:35
Speaker 1: And then, all of a sudden, the lights go out.
28:38
Speaker 1: It's the end of the festival.
28:40
Speaker 1: And then Jesus stands up thinking Ichabod, the glory has departed.
28:43
Speaker 1: Up, thinking Ichabod, the glory has departed.
28:45
Speaker 1: And here he is now saying the Shekinah is back, the light is back.
28:58
Speaker 1: And behold, I am the light of the world, and he who follows me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life.
29:02
Speaker 1: This is in opposition to what the Sadducees and the Pharisees and the scribes, how they're trying to trip him up inside of a snare.
29:09
Speaker 1: We have the woman caught in the act of adultery, right, all of these things happening, and now him being the light of the world.
29:14
Speaker 1: He now looks over at us and he says you are the light and the salt.
29:19
Speaker 1: Now go, do and be what I have called you to.
29:23
Speaker 1: Go, do and be, not by your own merits, but it's Christ in you, the hope of glory.
29:33
Speaker 1: I'm not calling you to bear fruit, I will bear fruit through you, as you abide in me.
29:35
Speaker 1: The vine Israel is not the vine, I'm the vine, and follow me and walk with me and you'll be seasoned for every single moment that I put you in.
29:42
Speaker 1: I love that, mark it's just a reminder that I put you in.
29:44
Speaker 3: I love that.
29:44
Speaker 2: Mark, it's just a reminder this is a side note, but related to what you just said the beauty of expositing God's Word, of gaining understanding of the background, just like what we're doing with the Church of Laodicea, but contexts like that that bring the Word to life.
30:01
Speaker 3: I spoke to a guy the other day.
30:03
Speaker 3: I said you read the Bible?
30:04
Speaker 3: He says no, no, I.
30:05
Speaker 3: I spoke to a guy the other day.
30:06
Speaker 3: I said you read your Bible?
30:07
Speaker 3: He says no, no, I keep it in my car to protect me.
30:08
Speaker 2: Whoa Good luck charm huh.
30:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what I said to him.
30:11
Speaker 3: I said, no, this is God's love letter to you, so it was interesting.
30:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, we have to remember, guys, that good works are good words, good works are good words, Good works are good words.
30:28
Speaker 2: But they've been given a bad rap because of how they've been twisted and how they've been associated with salvation, right, works-based salvation, so we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater.
30:36
Speaker 2: Whenever we hear those words, we kind of like oh good works, whoa, they're biblical.
30:41
Speaker 2: What does it tell us in Titus?
30:42
Speaker 2: That he wants to purify for himself his own special people, zealous for good works?
30:49
Speaker 2: I mean we quote Ephesians 2.8.9,.
30:51
Speaker 2: By grace, you've been saved through faith.
30:52
Speaker 2: That not of yourselves.
30:53
Speaker 2: It's the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
30:56
Speaker 2: Verse 10, for we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
31:05
Speaker 2: 2 Timothy 2, we can be prepared for every good work.
31:10
Speaker 2: He who cleanses himself from the latter will be a vessel of honor, sanctified, useful for the master, prepared for every good work, every good work prepared for us.
31:17
Speaker 2: We're prepared for it.
31:17
Speaker 2: Right, we've talked about it, the divine convergence, but we have to understand that, that it's good to be engaged with zeal for the Lord, to not have a lukewarmness about us in the way that we conduct ourselves, because we're saved by grace.
31:35
Speaker 2: And what does grace do?
31:36
Speaker 2: Titus is clear.
31:37
Speaker 2: The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and all worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present age.
31:48
Speaker 2: It stirs us right, ray.
31:50
Speaker 2: I mean God's grace sets us free.
31:53
Speaker 3: Yes, and that reminds me of the fact that we've got rats in our chicken coop.
31:57
Speaker 3: Oh wonderful.
31:59
Speaker 2: God's grace, shout out rats in my chicken coop.
32:00
Speaker 2: Everything goes back to rats in Ray's chicken coop.
32:03
Speaker 4: I'm hungry Rats in my chicken coop.
32:05
Speaker 3: I to rats and raise chickens.
32:06
Speaker 3: I'm hungry Rats and my chickens.
32:06
Speaker 3: I grabbed a piece of wood.
32:07
Speaker 3: We're having construction in the ministry and I grabbed a piece of wood the other day Quite a big piece and I took it home because it was in the trash.
32:12
Speaker 3: And I went to pick it up and I got a splinter.
32:15
Speaker 3: It was at least half an inch long, which is long for a splinter, and being a man of courage and humility, I just pulled it out without.
32:23
Speaker 3: Anyway, two days later this is just yesterday last night I noticed my finger was hurting and it seemed a little swollen and lumpy.
32:32
Speaker 3: So I said to Sue what do you think this is?
32:33
Speaker 3: She says that splinter's still in there.
32:35
Speaker 3: So she got a needle and started poking.
32:38
Speaker 3: Now that brought my memory back to when I was seven years old.
32:41
Speaker 3: The local beach had this old wooden pier and as a seven-year-old I slid down a piece of wood on the pier and I got a splinter in my hindermost part, and so I found myself that's the biblical way to put it.
32:54
Speaker 3: I found myself lying on the kitchen table with the whole family around me and a needle digging it out, and I still remember the pain.
33:01
Speaker 3: But with this instance with this splinter.
33:04
Speaker 3: It didn't hurt because I had the brains to take a piece of ice out of the fridge and you hold it on the area until it loses its feeling.
33:11
Speaker 3: It really did work and Sue couldn't find it.
33:13
Speaker 3: She says I think it's delirious.
33:14
Speaker 3: So I got my thumbnails and squeezed as hard as I could and it started hurting.
33:18
Speaker 3: Out came some liquid and this splinter that was so like I didn't want to say the word pass.
33:27
Speaker 4: Pass is a horrible word to say on a podcast.
33:28
Speaker 4: I was laughing because we need a disclaimer.
33:30
Speaker 3: Ray Comfort does not advise medical advice those living waters can do anything that Ray does.
33:34
Speaker 3: Out came this, this minute, tiny, tiny piece of wood.
33:40
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say this big, long no, no, it was just.
33:42
Speaker 3: You could hardly see it and I thought my body was saying get this foreign matter out of here, because this is going to go poison.
33:49
Speaker 3: And when you let something go poison, you can lose your whole hand or your arm.
33:52
Speaker 3: And so that's how we should be with sin, because it's going to poison the soul.
33:56
Speaker 3: That'll cause lukewarmness.
33:58
Speaker 3: If you give yourself to any sin, whether it be pornography or whatever, what you've got to do is squeeze it out, even if it hurts.
34:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, let's go here, because I think we have to start with the foundation.
34:12
Speaker 2: That is a necessity for the sins associated with lukewarmness, and that is being zealous to repent.
34:20
Speaker 2: Yeah Right, that's language used to the churches.
34:23
Speaker 3: That's the thumbs.
34:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what's used to the churches, that's the thumbs, yeah, so, mark, I'd love for you to touch on the sweetness of repentance to the believer, because there is something in us.
34:33
Speaker 2: It's almost like the term good works.
34:35
Speaker 2: There's something in us, there's a reaction.
34:38
Speaker 2: We hear repentance and negative things come to mind because we associate that with sin, but speak about the hope of repentance and being zealous for it.
34:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that Greek word, metanoia, which means to change your mind, which will always, 100% of the time, lead to a change of action.
34:53
Speaker 1: You cannot say that you repented and still remain the same.
34:57
Speaker 1: Macarthur said that our repentance needs to be louder than our sin was.
35:03
Speaker 1: Thomas Watson said repentance is the vomit of the soul.
35:07
Speaker 1: It's kind of a grotesque thought, but it's turning from the sins that we love to the God that we are called to love.
35:14
Speaker 1: Leonard Ravenhill said.
35:15
Speaker 1: So when you are repenting, it's not so much that I am turning from my sin, that becomes the work.
35:23
Speaker 1: That becomes the work when I'm just turning from my sin.
35:26
Speaker 1: The object of repentance is Christ.
35:31
Speaker 1: So when I turn towards Christ, with God's help, I naturally, supernaturally, am turning from my sin.
35:41
Speaker 1: So when we hear you shall not lust, don't lie, don't steal, and you begin to beat yourself up because you're saying how do I stop these things?
35:52
Speaker 1: The sirens are so loud inside my life.
35:56
Speaker 1: I get pushed up against the rocks and I get demolished by the waves, wave after wave after wave.
36:03
Speaker 1: So what we need to recognize is that there is a sweeter voice than the voice of the world saying, hey, just take a quick peek and you say, nope, I'm not going to do it right, Not one peek even.
36:16
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it.
36:17
Speaker 1: But it's more than that.
36:18
Speaker 1: It's a turning to him.
36:20
Speaker 1: And as I turn to him, I am turning my back on not just lust, not just lying, but stealing covetousness, dishonoring my parents.
36:30
Speaker 1: When my eyes are on the Lord, I leave behind the tumultuousness of my sin.
36:36
Speaker 1: This is what is so beautiful about repentance If I'm just turning from one vice, I'm going to turn to another vice.
36:43
Speaker 1: Unless my back is on him, all vices are left behind.
36:50
Speaker 4: Wow, I love that.
36:50
Speaker 4: And I think, to kind of summarize, because your question is like how do we embrace it?
36:55
Speaker 4: And, first and foremost, I think often when we talk about repentance, we act as though that's the thing that we do when we become Christian.
37:03
Speaker 4: But what you're alluding to is Luther's quote when he says when our Lord and master, jesus Christ, said repent, he intended that the entire life of believers should be repentance, and the reason why he meant that is because he recognized that there are all these little shadowy spaces in our heart, and then, ultimately, we are justified through the blood of Christ.
37:27
Speaker 4: But then there's this work of sanctification, and the work of sanctification is us becoming more and more like our savior, jesus.
37:36
Speaker 4: And so what?
37:37
Speaker 4: Why run to repentance?
37:39
Speaker 4: Because, man, when the Lord convicts you, ultimately what's happening in that moment is you're discovering an area of your heart in which is not Christ-like, and repentance leads you to a greater Christ-likeness.
37:53
Speaker 4: And what more do we want than to be like the ones we adore?
37:58
Speaker 4: And who should we adore more than our Lord?
38:01
Speaker 2: and Savior, amen.
38:02
Speaker 2: Man guys, I'm getting so stirred just talking about this, you know on a personal level Because you know we do the podcast.
38:07
Speaker 2: But the point is to dispense edification, but we get edified as well.
38:12
Speaker 2: One of the coolest things I've ever heard was the derogatory term that was leveled at Romanians.
38:20
Speaker 2: In Romania, the Christians they would call them repenters, repenters.
38:25
Speaker 2: What a cool thing to be known as.
38:27
Speaker 3: That dude's a repenter, wow, praise the Lord right, it's also Jesus, freak.
38:32
Speaker 2: Yeah right.
38:33
Speaker 3: I can handle that.
38:34
Speaker 2: It's wonderful, they're in love with Jesus.
38:35
Speaker 2: How awesome, you know.
38:36
Speaker 2: But I love the combination of what you guys are talking about, right, oscar?
38:41
Speaker 2: In terms of Laodicea, it's like look, no, look to Christ.
38:43
Speaker 2: You're looking at yourself.
38:46
Speaker 2: What keeps us from being zealous to repent?
38:48
Speaker 2: Because here's my whole thing In our desire to be zealous for the Lord, passionate, not lukewarm we have to understand that we first have to before we become consistent in avoiding a life of sin which is displeasing to the Lord.
39:03
Speaker 2: We have to become consistent in genuinely repenting, which means we have, yeah, that change of heart and mind about our sin that leads to us forsaking it and turning from it.
39:13
Speaker 2: But we have to become consistent in repenting of it genuinely before we become consistent in avoiding it.
39:19
Speaker 2: And so I think we need to recognize that there is joy in repentance.
39:25
Speaker 2: What keeps us from repenting?
39:26
Speaker 2: Pride, self, self-sufficiency, image.
39:29
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, why don't we apologize to our kids when we blow it and they knew we blew it?
39:33
Speaker 2: We know we blew it and we don't apologize?
39:36
Speaker 2: Or with our wives, or confessing sin to each other, or humbling ourselves when we know we didn't handle something right?
39:41
Speaker 2: It's that image, it's that pride.
39:47
Speaker 2: We're more concerned, at the end of the day, with what someone's going to think about us.
39:49
Speaker 2: Oh, that we made a mistake, that we blew it, that we're whatever, rather than what the Lord thinks, and that's the tragedy.
39:55
Speaker 2: So we have to get back to that zeal of like man.
39:59
Speaker 2: I want to be right with the Lord.
40:00
Speaker 2: Ray, I'd love you to talk about the things that often keep us from zeal for the Lord.
40:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, that reminds, me of rats Perfect, tell us about your zealous rats.
40:13
Speaker 2: But, what are the things that are the hindrances that keep us from being hot?
40:17
Speaker 2: You share that story often of what you did when you were a new believer and how things have changed now.
40:25
Speaker 3: What you?
40:26
Speaker 3: What did I do as a new believer?
40:27
Speaker 3: What you did?
40:27
Speaker 2: about the bus and the letters and what you used to do evangelistically, that whole thing, oh well.
40:32
Speaker 3: I was a maniac when I first became a Christian.
40:35
Speaker 3: Well, don't steal my thunder, Sorry, yeah.
40:41
Speaker 3: When I became a Christian I had such a zeal in my heart.
40:44
Speaker 3: I mean, the first thing I thought was my parents, my beloved parents, are going to hell if they die in their sins, my neighbors, my friends, my workmates.
40:52
Speaker 3: So I did everything I could to reach the lost.
40:55
Speaker 3: I got some gospel tracts.
40:56
Speaker 3: I found that you could get tracts.
40:57
Speaker 3: I began giving them out.
40:58
Speaker 3: I got a printing press.
41:00
Speaker 3: It was called an Arab printing press.
41:03
Speaker 2: I like it.
41:06
Speaker 3: I made it.
41:07
Speaker 3: It was actually.
41:07
Speaker 3: It didn't have a motor.
41:08
Speaker 3: You cranked a handle and this big thing opened up like a mouth and came in.
41:12
Speaker 3: If you got your hand in that thing it would just get utterly crushed.
41:15
Speaker 3: Was that the Gestetner?
41:16
Speaker 3: No, no, that was completely different.
41:18
Speaker 3: This thing was huge.
41:18
Speaker 3: It was a monster.
41:20
Speaker 3: I put it in a house and printed tracks on it and then I got a billboard and put it in front of our house.
41:25
Speaker 3: Then I got sign writing put on my car and I got a bus.
41:28
Speaker 3: It was a 34-seater bus and in professional sign writing, put it on the side the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
41:35
Speaker 3: On the other side, jesus said I'm the way, the truth and the life.
41:38
Speaker 3: Then on the front window of my business I had John, chapter 3, verses 1 to 16, in three-inch sign writing, professional sign writing.
41:48
Speaker 3: On the front I had posters on the door.
41:50
Speaker 3: Anything I did I did to try and reach the lost.
41:53
Speaker 3: So in summation, oh, and I got a soapbox and preached in the local square each day for 12 years.
41:59
Speaker 3: So if anyone could have been considered a religious nut in those days, it was me.
42:02
Speaker 3: Nowadays I'm much worse.
42:04
Speaker 3: It's so true, yeah, I'm much worse, it's so true.
42:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, the fire's built and I love the whole thought is your zeal has provoked very many.
42:14
Speaker 3: If you get with zealous Christians.
42:16
Speaker 3: That's one thing I find about our academy.
42:18
Speaker 3: I think how is it that people's lives have changed?
42:21
Speaker 3: They come here and for two to three days they go witnessing and they say my life has changed.
42:27
Speaker 3: And I think, how did that happen?
42:29
Speaker 3: And it comes back again and again.
42:30
Speaker 3: I got with people of like mind and that's what stirred the fire.
42:34
Speaker 3: And I know, if you can, I could yawn in the studio today and get you guys yawning If I did a good yawn.
42:39
Speaker 3: And same with laughter.
42:42
Speaker 3: If we started laughing, everyone joins in.
42:44
Speaker 3: What are we laughing at?
42:44
Speaker 3: And same with laughter.
42:45
Speaker 3: If we started laughing, everyone joins in.
42:46
Speaker 3: What are we laughing at?
42:46
Speaker 3: And so certain things are contagious and zeal is contagious.
42:49
Speaker 3: It's like a fire.
42:50
Speaker 3: So if you get along amongst zealous Christians, you'll find a stirred fire within your heart.
42:55
Speaker 3: Even today, listening to what we're talking about can set a fire going in your heart.
42:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, amen, yeah.
43:00
Speaker 2: One of my favorite books is Disciplines of a Godly man by Arkant Hughes.
43:03
Speaker 2: We've had Dr Hughes here in this very studio and what a powerful book.
43:09
Speaker 2: I mean it's crazy.
43:09
Speaker 2: It's still like number one for men's issues on Amazon and the book's like, I think, 30, 40 years old.
43:15
Speaker 2: But I've taken several people through it.
43:17
Speaker 2: I'm taking my son one of my sons through it right now.
43:20
Speaker 2: You might be the one keeping it at number one, probably Seriously.
43:32
Speaker 2: I've taken a lot of men through it and recommended it.
43:34
Speaker 2: But in the opening of the book he talks about zeal for the Lord and passion for the Lord and for godliness and he talks about different men who were just so dedicated and devoted in life.
43:37
Speaker 2: He started that out by talking about Mike Singletary, the football player, and just his zeal for the game.
43:43
Speaker 2: He said he would watch a single play 50 to 60 times.
43:46
Speaker 2: It took him three and a half hours to watch through a half of a football game.
43:50
Speaker 2: He'd sit back and watch tape, he said because he watched every player, because he knew the opposition's tendency given the down distance, hash mark and time remaining and because he read the opposition's mind through their stances, he was often moving toward the ball's preplanned destination before the play developed.
44:07
Speaker 2: This is what I call and this is what I want us to really hone in on.
44:11
Speaker 2: This is what I call the all-in attitude.
44:15
Speaker 2: Right, when someone says he's all-in, I'm all-in, that means I'm totally devoted, totally committed, totally dedicated.
44:22
Speaker 2: You know, you talk about Michael Phelps, the most decorated Olympian of all time 28 medals, 23 of them gold and he talked about how that was the result of thousands of hours and miles of disciplined boredom in the pool Not a good way to put it.
44:42
Speaker 2: Thousands of hours and miles of disciplined boredom.
44:45
Speaker 2: You're just doing it again and again.
44:47
Speaker 2: But when he entered that competitive arena he accelerated and he soared.
44:53
Speaker 2: You know, you think of guys like Steph Curry.
44:56
Speaker 2: He'd shoot between 600 and 700 baskets, counting only the ones that he made in a regiment.
45:02
Speaker 2: On intense shooting days it'd go up to like 1,000.
45:06
Speaker 2: Winston Churchill you guys know Winston Churchill.
45:08
Speaker 2: He's believed to be one of the greatest orators of all time.
45:10
Speaker 2: He had a massive speech impediment, so he would practice in front of the mirror relentlessly.
45:17
Speaker 2: He practiced the pauses, he practiced his stumblings, he'd work them in, he paused for applause.
45:22
Speaker 2: I mean, he knew, but naturally he was weak.
45:25
Speaker 2: But there was this zeal and passion that was given over.
45:29
Speaker 2: And I say all that to say that when we hear stuff like this, the world cheers Atta boy Right, whether it's in sports or it's in business, or it's in academics or career man, someone that's going all out, we cheer them on, we talk positively, but it seems that as soon as we apply that to the faith, ah, slow down, brother, don't get legalistic on me here.
45:53
Speaker 3: Don't be so heavenly minded, you know.
45:57
Speaker 2: Yeah and all the trite sayings come out.
45:59
Speaker 2: But how sad, how sad that we do that.
46:01
Speaker 2: Oh relax, you know who does that, with someone who says oh man, you know, I've been smoking for 30 years and I just quit.
46:08
Speaker 2: It was so hard I did this and that I went through this regimen.
46:11
Speaker 1: Why Relax, go for it, you know?
46:14
Speaker 2: Or someone who quit drugs?
46:15
Speaker 2: Quit drugs?
46:15
Speaker 2: Of course not.
46:16
Speaker 2: We encourage people in that, but I think it's honestly a demonic agenda that wants to keep Christians in totality and fullness, being the salt and light that we're called to be.
46:29
Speaker 3: And we're talking about something eternal.
46:31
Speaker 3: We're not talking about the world.
46:32
Speaker 3: Michael Phelps, what 26 medals?
46:35
Speaker 3: Gold medals Was it 26?
46:36
Speaker 3: 28.
46:36
Speaker 3: He suffered from terrible depression.
46:37
Speaker 1: 28 he suffered from terrible depression.
46:39
Speaker 3: He suffered from terrible depression to a point in what he was, suicidal.
46:41
Speaker 3: That's right, and that's what the world can give you nothing, it's chasing the wind, the praise of men.
46:46
Speaker 3: So how much more should we be zealous for the god that gave us life?
46:49
Speaker 1: yeah, amen mark we need to put into our christian regiment what collegiate athletes put in right Secular universities, a secular college student who's trying to win a national championship, the whole idea.
47:04
Speaker 1: The mentality is go hard or go home.
47:06
Speaker 1: We need to have the mentality go hard because we are almost home right.
47:10
Speaker 1: That we see the finish line right.
47:13
Speaker 1: It's just right there.
47:15
Speaker 1: You brought up Winston Churchill.
47:17
Speaker 1: Winston Churchill was sick in the hospital.
47:18
Speaker 1: He had a friend come and visit him and the question was asked to Winston Churchill what are you working on, what are you writing there?
47:24
Speaker 1: And he said I'm working on my next impromptu speech.
47:29
Speaker 1: That is the mentality that in order to be ready in season, out of season, which are the only two times we're called to be ready, which is at any and all moments we need to have the Word inside of us.
47:41
Speaker 1: We go through the Word, but the Word needs to go through us.
47:43
Speaker 1: We need to pray in the Word continually.
47:45
Speaker 1: Leonard Ravenhill, the revivalist preacher, who we're very familiar with, he said the only reason we do not have revival is because we are willing to live without it.
47:55
Speaker 1: Amen, ouch.
47:57
Speaker 1: What will a hungry man eat if he's hungry enough?
48:00
Speaker 1: Anything In and out, anything right.
48:03
Speaker 1: The best seasoning is hunger.
48:05
Speaker 1: So when you begin to hunger and thirst after the righteousness of Christ, then what the world attempts to give you will not satisfy.
48:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to be just done, and this is where we're at right.
48:17
Speaker 1: We want to surround ourselves with people who have a high, lofty, sovereign view of God, that God can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, to whomever he wants, through anyone, at any moment.
48:30
Speaker 1: And we're saying well, here am I and I'm done saying here am I send him, here am I send me.
48:37
Speaker 1: Use me for your glory at all costs, no matter the cost, because time is quick.
48:42
Speaker 1: 2 Timothy 3, 5, having the appearance of godliness but denying its power.
48:49
Speaker 1: Avoid such people.
48:52
Speaker 1: What does lukewarmness do?
48:54
Speaker 1: It puts on the jersey, but it's not ready for the game.
48:57
Speaker 1: And so many Christians are treating this like a game, like it's a playground, but it's a battleground.
49:03
Speaker 1: So we need to gird up and go.
49:04
Speaker 1: Ah, so good, mark.
49:07
Speaker 4: Your emphasis on how this isn't works.
49:09
Speaker 4: Righteousness reminds me of the story that the late Dr Timothy Killers tells he was giving this sermon in New York about.
49:16
Speaker 4: The late Dr Timothy Killers tells he was giving this sermon in New York about self-righteousness and versus faith and he said after the sermon, this woman who was not a Christian yet later became a Christian shortly after the sermon walks up to him and she goes.
49:30
Speaker 4: That sermon petrifies me.
49:32
Speaker 4: And he says why.
49:34
Speaker 4: And she goes.
49:35
Speaker 4: Well, you helped me realize she goes.
49:37
Speaker 4: She has something to the effect of like if my salvation is based on things I can do, then there's only so much Christ can ask of me.
49:46
Speaker 4: But if my salvation truly is all about what he has done for me, then there is nothing he can ask of me that I shouldn't already give him.
49:55
Speaker 4: Wow, so good Isn't that good.
49:57
Speaker 2: That moved me emotionally, man, that's good You're going to cry.
50:02
Speaker 2: I see it, it's coming.
50:03
Speaker 2: The eyes are moist.
50:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's so, true man, it's being enamored with Christ.
50:08
Speaker 2: Here's a definition I wrote of zeal.
50:11
Speaker 2: Zeal is a burning passion to glorify God.
50:14
Speaker 2: It's fueled by the knowledge of his word, empowered by his spirit and manifested through wholehearted obedience that is motivated by a genuine love for the Lord and others.
50:25
Speaker 2: And often I think we get caught up in the thinking that zeal has to be always this just like ah, loud and intense.
50:36
Speaker 2: I love this definition by Ralph Cudworth.
50:38
Speaker 2: He said let us take heed.
50:40
Speaker 2: We do not sometimes call that zeal for God and his gospel, which is nothing else but our own tempestuous and stormy passion.
50:48
Speaker 2: True zeal is a sweet, heavenly and gentle flame which makes us active for God, but always within the sphere of love.
50:57
Speaker 2: It never calls for fire from heaven to consume those who differ a little from us.
51:01
Speaker 2: It strives to save the soul but hurts not the body.
51:04
Speaker 2: True zeal is a loving thing and makes us always active to edification and not to destruction.
51:11
Speaker 2: Right, because, mark, sometimes there are a lot of people that go out there in the name of zeal and that destroy all kinds of things, whether it's their witness or other believers, right?
51:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, zeal without knowledge is what Stupid, Stupid Spurgeon said if Christ is not all to you, then he's nothing to you.
51:35
Speaker 1: This is every facet of your life.
51:37
Speaker 1: I remember coming home from Bible college and going to meet Thomas Kinkade the artist, and I had my Bible with me and I was with a loved one and the loved one had looked at me and said, why are you bringing your Bible?
51:50
Speaker 1: And I said, if I have like two minutes to myself, I just want to meditate on something.
51:56
Speaker 1: And he was like, and his mind could not comprehend the fact that I'm always, continually, constantly looking for the opportunity to come aside and rest a while and I find my rest in Christ.
52:09
Speaker 1: You know, there's a difference between an atheist and a practical atheist.
52:12
Speaker 1: Right, An atheist comes along and says there is no God, but a practical atheist is one who says there is a god but then lives as if there is no god.
52:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and unfortunately we have a lot of people that come to church that are just like that that they will come to church not realizing that they are the church and when they leave the church, they are no longer acting like the church because they think that it is delegated to just a building.
52:37
Speaker 1: But no, it's everything.
52:38
Speaker 1: That when you come to Christ, it's everything or it's nothing.
52:42
Speaker 1: Jc Ryle, he said half-hearted Christianity is the worst kind of religion.
52:48
Speaker 1: Half-hearted Christianity is the worst.
52:50
Speaker 1: I mean, you either believe it or you don't.
52:52
Speaker 1: And if you believe it, then anything and everything he says it is well with my soul.
52:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, amen.
52:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, you think about what people do for a lie.
53:03
Speaker 2: There used to be a program years ago that said are you willing to do for the truth what cultists and those in false religions do for a lie?
53:12
Speaker 2: And you think about what different people in different religious groups do I mean Muslims, many of them.
53:19
Speaker 2: They have a word it's called hafiz, because so many have done it who've memorized the entire Quran, and you think about that, the sadness of that.
53:27
Speaker 2: You're filling your heart and mind with a lie, basically, but they're doing it.
53:32
Speaker 2: You think of what Mormons are doing.
53:34
Speaker 2: They're going around the world, they're setting aside, I think, isn't it?
53:38
Speaker 2: Two?
53:38
Speaker 1: years for a mission.
53:40
Speaker 2: Two years of their lives in a foreign land.
53:42
Speaker 2: They'll go away from where their home is.
53:44
Speaker 2: Knocking on doors, riding bikes Is that where you got the idea?
53:49
Speaker 2: Without a dog, though, that's the problem.
53:53
Speaker 2: Again, jehovah's Witnesses, they set aside so much time going door to door, in their area, where they live, where people who may know them will see them.
54:00
Speaker 2: All these things that are done, and yet we can do them on the basis of the truth, not to earn our salvation, but to demonstrate our love for the Lord.
54:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, I love that well-known verse do this and live.
54:16
Speaker 2: The law demands, but gives you neither feet nor hands.
54:19
Speaker 2: A better word the gospel brings.
54:21
Speaker 2: It bids us fly and gives us wings.
54:24
Speaker 2: Right, ray, it's the gospel.
54:27
Speaker 3: That's what fuels us.
54:28
Speaker 3: How can we not be filled with zeal?
54:30
Speaker 3: And I'm the only one in here that can say I was born in New Zealand.
54:35
Speaker 2: Ooh, look at that humility on his face.
54:38
Speaker 2: Do that nod again, Randy?
54:40
Speaker 4: Right, right, like the bobblehead, the living bobblehead.
54:48
Speaker 4: To bring it back to Revelation 3 and just to show how hopefulness in the gospel is truly all over this book, and so is Christ.
54:57
Speaker 4: It's Christ who goes and knocks on the door in Revelation 21.
55:01
Speaker 4: He says I will grant.
55:04
Speaker 4: He doesn't say you're going to earn it, you're going to get yourself there.
55:07
Speaker 4: I will grant to sit with me on my throne.
55:11
Speaker 4: That's just a reminder to us that salvation isn't through zeal, passion or performance.
55:16
Speaker 4: It's through union with the Lamb, grace, through faith and when we truly reflect on the love of God.
55:25
Speaker 4: It's like Thomas Chalmers' book the Expulsive Power of a New Affection.
55:29
Speaker 4: When you see the glory of God, when you truly understand the way in which he loves you, it rearranges your affections in these acts of obedience.
55:41
Speaker 4: That we're talking about, the desire for you to read and meditate on God's word and in moments of slow times, and our love for preaching the gospel.
55:51
Speaker 4: That comes not out of this tireless work method.
55:55
Speaker 4: It comes out of a response to the work God has done for us on the cross.
56:00
Speaker 4: Amen.
56:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got to, it's got to be in connection with him.
56:05
Speaker 2: I've shared this verse before.
56:06
Speaker 2: But a Christian artist in one of his songs he was painting kind of a Pilgrim's Progress sort of a scene and this guy's running toward the kingdom but he's fighting off sin and the porn monster's trying to attack him, you know, and just wrap its tentacles around him and he said with my sword I hacked it to pieces because I'm way more attracted to Jesus and that just moved me.
56:31
Speaker 2: I'm like, exactly, we become so enamored with him, so passionate about him, so in love with him, so rooted in him, right that you may know what is a width and length and depth and height, to know the love of Christ which passes, knowledge that you may be filled with all the fullness of God Bursting at the seams.
56:49
Speaker 2: Easy you should put out the emphasis Bible.
56:52
Speaker 3: Ah, I like that Bursting at the seams.
56:56
Speaker 4: It's all caps, the whole thing, all caps, all highlighted.
56:59
Speaker 4: It's like when Ron sends out urgent emails everything is all caps and bold.
57:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
57:06
Speaker 2: So that's good, ray.
57:08
Speaker 2: I'd love you to just speak a word of encouragement to those listening right now that are saying you know, I am lukewarm, I am convicted, this is where I'm at.
57:15
Speaker 2: Where do they begin to get out of that?
57:17
Speaker 3: and become comfortable.
57:17
Speaker 3: Well, zeal is the acceleration that comes from a high-octane fuel of gratitude.
57:22
Speaker 3: If you lack gratitude, you'll lack zeal, and gratitude for me comes solely from the cross.
57:28
Speaker 3: It's from seeing what I deserve to what I actually got.
57:32
Speaker 3: It's understanding grace, god's mercy, the judge looking down and having pity on the criminal and extending mercy towards them, and so that's what continually feeds my zeal.
57:41
Speaker 3: It gets rid of my fears, it gets.
57:44
Speaker 3: It's getting my my head turned from sin.
57:46
Speaker 3: Uh, just look into that cross, the cross before me, the world behind me.
57:50
Speaker 3: So that's the key.
57:52
Speaker 2: Amen, mark, I'd love you to give a word too.
57:54
Speaker 2: Encourage people.
57:56
Speaker 1: I think lukewarmness always overemphasizes its own temperature, right, that we need other people to look inside of our lives and, with accountability, say, hey, you got a little something going on here.
58:08
Speaker 1: Or hey, when you are talking to your kid, when you're talking to your wife, when you did that project, I just think that there might be something a little bit better on how you might be able to handle that.
58:19
Speaker 1: Let's tackle this together, right?
58:22
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of with lukewarmness, right, when we go out into the ocean, the ocean's, you know, not too far from us, and you're out there and you're having a great time, and you look back and before you realize it, you just drifted.
58:34
Speaker 1: Your lifeguard station 10 is here and now you're at lifeguard station 165, right, it's that quick.
58:40
Speaker 1: And you're just kind of going through the motions.
58:43
Speaker 1: You're just kind of living life, doing the daily grind, not realizing and recognizing that every decision we make, it kind of balances on a razor's edge, not going between heaven and hell, but it's just.
58:54
Speaker 1: Is that the right thing to do?
58:56
Speaker 1: And we don't need to overthink it, we don't need to over-spiritualize it, we don't need to mystify it, we just need to stay inside the Word.
59:03
Speaker 1: Right?
59:04
Speaker 1: You're talking about hacking that porn problem to pieces, hacking that sin.
59:08
Speaker 1: If you're not hacking sin into pieces, sin is waiting to hack you to pieces.
59:12
Speaker 1: And it's just one little thought at a time, one little action at a time.
59:19
Speaker 1: Revelation 3.17,.
59:20
Speaker 1: For you say I am rich, not realizing that you are wretched, poor, blind and naked.
59:26
Speaker 1: Right, we need to realize that in order to live this life, god has designed us to go through this life with other people, and if you do not welcome somebody to speak freely inside your life, you're probably lukewarm.
59:44
Speaker 1: If you have not had somebody correct you in the last couple weeks, you're probably lukewarm.
59:50
Speaker 1: Why are you in a position where you don't allow people to speak inside your life?
59:55
Speaker 1: Right?
59:56
Speaker 1: Who was it that said be killing sin or sin will be killing you?
59:59
Speaker 1: That's just the mentality, that sin is knocking at the door, and it doesn't come necessarily in the picture of an adulterous woman who is wanting to do her thing.
1:00:12
Speaker 1: It comes with just a word that shouldn't have been spoken, a glance that just stayed a little too long, a tiny splinter, and if you don't nab that thing quickly, it's going to nab you slowly before you realize that you are so far down in the ocean that you have no idea how to get back, wow so good Mark.
1:00:34
Speaker 2: You know, I think ultimately the greatest danger of spiritual lukewarmness is that Christ does not receive our all, and that should grieve us.
1:00:47
Speaker 2: You know, Scripture talks about walking in a manner worthy of the Lord, walking in a manner worthy of the gospel, and that language there gives the imagery of a scale where the object on one side is equal to what you put on the other side.
1:01:04
Speaker 2: The object is the calling, the object is the Lord, and then our lives and how we live should balance that out.
1:01:11
Speaker 2: That he gets what he's worthy of the fullness of our lives.
1:01:15
Speaker 2: Why we are not our own.
1:01:17
Speaker 2: We were bought with a price.
1:01:19
Speaker 2: Therefore, right we're to glorify God.
1:01:21
Speaker 2: He died for all that.
1:01:23
Speaker 2: Those who live should live no longer for themselves but for him, who died for them and rose again.
1:01:28
Speaker 2: He paid the highest price ever paid for anything ever purchased in the history of the universe to make us his and man.
1:01:35
Speaker 2: That's tragic that he doesn't receive our all.
1:01:38
Speaker 2: Let me finish with this quote by Randy Smith.
1:01:40
Speaker 2: He said Christians should be the most diligent people on the planet.
1:01:43
Speaker 2: Sadly, this is often not the case, as we are outspent, out-thought and out-performed, oftentimes by the very opponents of the gospel.
1:01:52
Speaker 2: Is there any cause greater than fighting for the eternal salvation of souls?
1:01:56
Speaker 2: Is there any book more accurate and relevant and thrilling than the inspired word of God?
1:02:01
Speaker 2: Is there any power greater than the Holy Spirit?
1:02:04
Speaker 2: Is there any God who can compare with our God?
1:02:07
Speaker 2: Then, where is the diligence, the dedication, the determination of his people?
1:02:13
Speaker 2: And so I hope that we grasp that and that just lights us on fire with zeal and passion for Him, because we're saved by grace, through faith, not of ourselves, but we're called to be zealous for good works.
1:02:26
Speaker 2: We're called to walk in the good works prepared beforehand for His glory.
1:02:30
Speaker 2: Amen, Amen, Amen, friends.
1:02:34
Speaker 3: There you have it.
1:02:37
Speaker 2: That's not supposed to happen at the end.
1:02:39
Speaker 2: That's not supposed to happen at the end.
1:02:40
Speaker 2: Don't forget, friends, the one big, beautiful bill to get into people's hands.
1:02:45
Speaker 2: Do it with zeal, with passion, with excitement.
1:02:47
Speaker 2: Living Waters, my evidence, study Bible.
1:02:48
Speaker 2: Don't forget Living Waters TV, the podcast YouTube channel, all at livingwaterscom, and friends podcast at livingwaterscom, with your lovely thoughts we just may read your letter.
1:02:59
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us, friends.
1:03:00
Speaker 2: We'll see you here next time on the living waters podcast.
1:03:05
Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, we had a bunch of friends in here with us today.
1:03:08
Speaker 1: Oh, we did that's right.
1:03:10
Speaker 2: Tonight, believe it or not, friends, is the big premiere for season 11.
1:03:14
Speaker 2: No, 10, season 10 we're about to film 11.
1:03:17
Speaker 2: Season 10 of the Wave, the master television program, and we have friends that are here with us, that came from distant places, who are standing with us in all that we do and we're so blessed to have you all.
1:03:26
Speaker 2: Hey, let's give them a round of applause.
1:03:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, welcome and thanks for being with us.
1:03:32
Speaker 2: So, as as I was saying, we'll see you here next time on the Living Waters Podcast, where Mark Ray and Oscar have absolutely no idea what you're doing, what they're doing.