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In Conversation with Chris Judd - Why being disagreeable might just make you a better investor · What the Flux

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is what the plus i'mv and It's Friday, the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: thirty first of October. Today will be the first episode
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: in the two part interview with Chris Judd, two time
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: AFL Brownlow medallist, Premiership captain and founder of Serate Macro Funds.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: In part one, Brett and Justin will be talking to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Chris about his football career, his transition into investing and
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: why he started his own investment fund. But before that,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: here are the top three business news stories from Australia
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and around the world. NAB has promised to increase its
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: lending to Australian real estate developers by twenty percent and
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: has also set aside thirty billion dollars for first home
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: buyer loans. In other news, Australia's quarterly September inflation has
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: jumped to three point two percent compared to the last
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: quarter when it was just two point one percent. This
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: means inflation is now outside the Reserve Bank of Australia's
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: ideal range of two to three percent. This Tuesday, the
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: RBA will be making a call on whether to pause,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: cut or increase the cash rate. And finally, in Vidia
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: has made history as the first company to reach a
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: market valuation of five trillion US dollars. That's it from
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: me today. I'll posit over to brand Justin for their
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: insightful conversation with.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Chris Judd today on what the Flux In conversation, we're
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: excited to welcome Chris Chart and name that many of
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: our listeners would instantly associate with greatness on the footy field,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: but he's also had a second act in investing. So
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Chris played fourteen seasons in the AFL, first with West
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Coast then Carlton, and over that time he became one
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: of the game's most decorated players, captain of both clubs,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: two Brownlow medals, as well as leading West Coast to
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: a premiership in two thousand and six. But what many
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: might not know fully is how serious he's become in
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the world of investing. Chris founded Serity Macro fund, operating
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: in the macro equity space, and in today's conversation, we're
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: going to unpack how lessons from elite sport translate to markets,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: how he evaluates investments, and the challenges that he's faced
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: from being a public figure to a fund manager, and
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: maybe even where Chris is placing his bets today, So
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  Speaker 2: welcome to What the Flux Juddy.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you Justin and Brenton.
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: Congratulations on the pronunciation of sarity.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: We have to listen to a few we did our research.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Have you had that challenge.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Often, sir Ruti or cherity?
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Just think of that before you made the name.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: No, I didn't have.
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  Speaker 5: It's a bit of a lesson for all of us.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Cool.
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: So you achieved so much in your football career. How
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: often do you actually reflect on those achievements or is
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: it just a chapter of your life that you've now
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: completely moved on from.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: Just feels a chapter that's completely closed, which I'm happy about. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: I sort of have no interest in sort of spending
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: all my forties, fifties and sixties talking or thinking about
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: things I did in my late teens and twenties.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: So I'm excited that I've got.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: A young family and a small business and lots of
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: things to keep the head occupied.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nice for it. It sort of feels like
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: primary school. You know.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: I had a great time in primary school grade two.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: I was the quickest kid in the year. I had
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: a full head of hair, I had a girlfriend. I'm
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: sure if we actually spoke. I remember beating grade fours
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: and running races. You know, there was peak cycle in
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: grade two, but it was great. That's gone, you know,
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: I don't think about that anymore. And footy was a
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: bit the same at a great time. Had a very
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: fortunate career, but it was it was a long time ago,
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: and really excited that there's other things occupying my time now.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: So we're going to stay on top of footage a
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: little fine. When you ran out on the field ninety
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: thousand people, one hundred thousand people, what was that mental
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: process like like going out hearing the raw in a
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: big game of footage?
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Oh, it was magical. You know.
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  Speaker 4: All I ever wanted to do from the age of
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: about three till becoming an autut was player fell footing
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: and to be out there on the big stage in
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: front of fans and with teammates who you love was magical.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean I always had a spoken about
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  Speaker 4: a bit before a different mindset mentally lean into games
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: like I was very much driven by negative thoughts. So
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: you know, any sort of performance psychologists or people telling
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: young kids how they should visualize performance should think positively
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: about what's coming, you know, during the season from sort
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: of Wednesday onwards, I would flood my brain with negative
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: thoughts about how I was going to play, and then
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: I was going to lose the game and I was going.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: To let it run down and did that help you?
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: And that's what sort of helped me.
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  Speaker 4: And it sort of ended with you know, just before
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: running out, I would sort of say to my mind,
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: we we'll see who's right. Play games on yourself, sort
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: of that disassociation between your thoughts and your elf, and
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  Speaker 4: that's sort of how played out for fourteen years. So
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  Speaker 4: it was a different a different mental preparation the most
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: and perhaps a little bit a little bit tiring, but
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  Speaker 4: it was always a relief to actually run out there
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  Speaker 4: on the field because by then the thoughts had stopped
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  Speaker 4: and it was just an arm wrestle to see who
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: was right the thoughts or me.
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: That's fascinating. And so last one on footy. Do you
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  Speaker 5: think that your experiences playing professional sport helped you in
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: business or investing?
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  Speaker 3: They have? I mean, I think I'd be a better
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: investor if I said have done it. Yeah, that's really
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  Speaker 3: interesting one.
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  Speaker 4: But I certainly think I'm a much been investor now
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: than I would be if I was just sitting on
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: a couch scratching masks for years instead of playing professional sport. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: and it certainly does. You know, I think there's an
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: advantage to any profession if you think differently from the
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: people you're competing with.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: And I certainly get that.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: We don't get stuck in consensus fuse perhaps, or or
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: get stuck believing that a relationship has to continue forever
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: because it has in the past. That maybe some managers
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: do who've been an industry for thirty years and to
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: convince things have to work a certain way because that's
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: how they've always worked for them in their professional careers. So,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: particularly a time like today when things are changing so
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: rapidly and there's lots of things professional investors seeing today
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: they've never seen before in their professional lives. You know,
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: there are perhaps some advantages coming from a parallel field.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, JD, we did a bit of digging. You
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: did your first investment when you were sixteen, and so
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I've got a couple bit of cash from the aas Yes,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: that's right. How did that one go? And then is
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: that what really prompted you to get passionate?
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: Tell us the truth that went well, so that went well,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: not through skill but through luck. So it was awa,
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: I believe doubled. I've even got taken over. The other
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: thing we will look at buying was Woolworths, which would
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: have been a much better hold, forever, more boring investment,
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: and so that was Look, that was a good start
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: purely through luck.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: But yeah, look, I.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: Think there were just a number of things that appealed
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: to me with investing. You know, like, I'm naturally highly disagreeable.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: Any time you make an investment, you're effectively saying that
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: the market is wrong on the price of this asset,
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: and I'm right, And that is a trait I think
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: more suited to people who are highly disagreeable. And I'm
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: highly competitive, and particularly with listed investments, there's just a
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: scoreboard available every day to see if you've won or
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: you've lost, So it sort of scratches those two itches.
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  Speaker 4: And yeah, look, my grandfather loved his stocks. My old
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: man had no interest, and neither did my mum. But
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: perhaps it skipped a generation that interest. And it's certainly
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: you know something that I'm incredibly passionate about today.
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: Was there a point where you realized I'm actually not
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: bad at investing. I might make it my profession.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I I met a guy when I was
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: twenty eight who I would say taught me how to
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: invest in listed equities and particularly small cap equities, which
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: to me means he taught me.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: How to sell them.
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: You know, so properties if you buy well, I don't
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: think you really need to sell them. Listed equities, particularly
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: the small and the skill is in the selling, and
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: I felt he taught me how to do that, so
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: I started learning them. But I always envisis myself running
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: and operating business because the entrepreneurs I admired most that's
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: what they did. And I started working after foty years
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: an analyst in a VC fund, still not thinking i'd
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: become an investor, still with a view that I would
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: eventually either buy or start up an operating business somewhere,
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: and then the VC investing was a great opportunity, but
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: I didn't like any of those investments for my own money.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: At the same time, I was doing really well investing
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: listed equities on the side, and then I just had
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: this moment. I love investing the listed equities. I'm doing
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: really well at it. Why is this not where I'm
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: spending my energy. So it was just sort of an
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: iteration of over about eighteen months. And I actually really
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: helped doing a personality test too, which was at about
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: the same time, which came back with just you know,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: this bottom three percent for agreeability and which I've already mentioned,
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: but it was it came back as a personality it
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: was suited to ideas and certainly not suited to managing
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: large numbers of people. And I'm just not energized by
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: hr issues or you know, hearing about how someone's got
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: a headache or someone you know, girlfriend dumpedon, or just
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: my empathy is a bit low, so.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: You know, and it's why I'd be a crap coach.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: The idea of having cough's without an year olds because
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: they feel sad is just not what I'm built for.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: And there's nothing that's great people that are built for that.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: So but ideas and concepts, I just love exploring them
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: and can think about them menlessly. So eventually got to
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: that point where I realized that a startup or buying
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: and operating business with a large number of employees probably
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: wouldn't be the best best use of my skills, and
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: initially just started investing my own capital, and then after
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: a while felt, you know, I was almost the guy
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: surfing around the corner from Bell's Beach telling people he
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: could be in the comp if you wanted to, and
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: people would say, what are you doing, and I'd say,
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: I'm a full time investor, and they'd look at you
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: like you're employed, and.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: That was starting to piss me off. I was starting
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: in a chip on my shoulder.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: And at the same time, I'd already hired Tom, who's
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: our analyst. I'd hired him as my analyst in a
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: private capacity, and he was going really well. And I thought,
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: if you'd got in your young early twenties and you're ambitious,
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: which he is, and he's super smart, the right move
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: for him would be to go and work for a
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: fun to be part of something bigger. And that would
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: have been, you know, no good because he was going
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: really well and then got approached by a family office
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: to manage some money for them, and before we knew
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: the fund was born.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Nice and so with the fund, which I've seen has
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: done pretty well over the last twelve months and not
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: since inception, so Flux listeners thirty six and a half
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: percent over the past twelve months to September twenty twenty
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: five and then also twenty seven percent annualized since inception,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: so very impressive numbers. What is the investment philosophy of
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: the fund and how do you decide what to invest in?
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're we call ourselves a macro fund, which
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: means our which means to us, our idea generation comes
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: from top down macro themes, so we can invest anywhere
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: in the world. We generally just invest in Australian listed equities,
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: but if there's a macro theme we really like and
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: we can't express it here, we will go overseas if
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: we find appropriately valued companies to express that macro thematic view.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: The next thing we do is really focusing on liquidity
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: in terms of the style of company we buy. So
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: whenquidity is loose, and liquidity to us is metrics like
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: money supply, central bank balance sheets, you know, interest rates,
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: these sorts of broad metrics largely focused on the US
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: because that's where most of the liquidity is. When liquidity
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: is loose, we want to be in companies that are
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: perhaps more of a growth bend and smaller companies. When
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: liquidity is really tight, like when we started the fund,
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: there was negative money supplying the US, which is like
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: a one in one hundred yuro event. When liquidity is tight,
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: we want to be in larger cap positions, or if
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: they're small, we want them to be producing a lot
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: of amount of free cash flow today. And we meet management,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: we do our topped up, we do our bottom up analysis,
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: and then and then we execute the trade. So generally,
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: the separation of work is I spend most of my
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: time in the macro and liquidity. I'll often give Tom
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: the analyst, a short list of two or three stocks.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: He'll then build financial models and do this sort of
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: stuff that he's much better at than me, and then
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: we'll meet management and ultimately be my decision which company
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: we invest in, and how that portfolio structuring works is
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: relation to other investments.
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: And given your long only, how often on average would
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: you say you're actually transacting.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: Most days, but very rarely on a new position. Okay,
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: so we're super focused on not just what companies do
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: we like, but we really want companies we like the
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: most at this valuation to be our biggest holdings. So
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: you know, generally two percent is a small position for US,
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: four percent is a large position. Right now, We've got
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: one position that's a bit of a six percent, so
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: that feels really that feels quite large for us, But
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: it would be really annoying for us if one percent
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: position doubled in a way, because we were almost there.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: We liked it, but we didn't have a big enough
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: bet on it. So whilst I don't know how often
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: a new position would come in, I.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Don't think even every month.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: We're trading around most days just to try and get
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: the portfolio construction where we.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Want it interesting And is it mainly Is your portfolio
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: made up mainly of small caps?
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: It is at the minute, but we've still got some
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: large caps. Yeah, and not much of it.
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: We probably have about five percent and overseas currently Yeah, okay, Jaddy.
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: Looking ahead, is there a particular bold idea or opportunity
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: that you are thinking about investing in.
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I'd like to think all of our ideas
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: are bold and we've executed on them.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Is there a particular industry that excites you?
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: Look, I think robotics and you know, to say AI,
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: I'm not that into a coincidentally, so I mean for
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: us AI, what's interesting is electricity generation. We feel that's
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: where the bottleneck is deep seak. China's AI large language
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: model is open source and in a lot of ways,
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: demonetized AI large language models overnight in our view, So
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: where we feel the most interesting bottleneck is in that
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: electricity capacity, particularly.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: In the US.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: China's way ahead in the terms of the amount of
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: electricity they can produce, and at times in certain areas
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: they've got surplus electricity, which is pretty neat problem because
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: of their hydro electric So in terms of AI, that's
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: a theme we're really excited about how the US.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Can improve their electrical grid.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: We think that's a significant issue that's probably not top
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: of mind if you were to say, you know, critical
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: minerals is.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: The you know, the sexist investmentmatic right now.
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: You know, the antimody stocks and rare earth stocks or
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: raw earth stocks.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Is Trump and these are reasonably large companies, some of
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: them like MP materials, so like that's really sexy right here.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: But you know, that electricity grid is another one which
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: we think is really interesting. We also think at the
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: end of the day, the US couldn't win the proxy
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: war in Ukraine between China because they couldn't match the
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: manufacturing capacity of China, China, and to a lesser extent, Russia.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: You know Russia's mintal production, China's manufacturing capacity.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: And you can't win a.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: Hot war if you're bringing up the adversary and saying
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: can you send us some bullets. So whilst bringing manufacturing
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: back to the US has been framed by the Trump
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: administration is an economic issue, we think it's more a
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: Department of Defense issue, and we think it's wildly important.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: So things that can improve efficiency of manufacturing in the US, automation,
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: three D printing, these sorts of things are going to
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: be necessary because you've got to remember the US has
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: squashed migration currently, so they're not growing the labor force
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: that can do that manufacturing work. If it's the same
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: as your grand pass manufacturing work, and we don't think
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: we'll be. We think we highly automated using robots and
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: three D printing in these sort of technology. So we
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: think that's interesting and in a way is the same
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: sort of trade as the rare earth trade.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: It's just expressed in a slightly different way.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Jodi asked one before we get into our flux five,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: which is our fast five questions, if we would have
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: this conversation again in five years talking Culton talking investments.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: What let's put Culton's to side. From now, where would
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: you see sarity being?
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: What where would you like sarity to be? From both
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: funds under management? Do you think your approach would change?
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: What do you think five years from now you'll be.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: So we take great pride in being a small fund,
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: and we always plan on protecting that edge because we
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: think it's significant. So we want to close the fund
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: at one hundred and fifty million bucks. We're currently about seventy.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: We want to then grow that one hundred and fifty
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: to three hundred, give everyone half their money back, and
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: see how many times we can do that.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: That's the goal.
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: So in five years time, I hope we have closed
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: the fund, and I would hope we're closing on that point.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: Where we can give investors half their money back, or
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: we may have done it if without being too.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: Smug, because I know the market gods don't like smugness,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: and they'll punish me for that. You don't want to
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: punish anyone market. God's punished bread, not me. So yes,
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: that's sort of how we're looking. We're not trying to
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: manage tenbion bucks. We're not chasing institutional super fund money.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: We want to be able to move quickly and be
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: more agile than other funds.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: So that's sort of the very broad road map of
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: where we're going.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Part two of the podcast with Chris
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Judd will come out on Monday, the third of November,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: where brettan Justin speak to Chris about his investments within
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the Serty Macrofund and what excites him for the future.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: We'll see you then,